Shoutout to: Liverpool, with The Anfield Wrap's Neil Atkinson

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1:12welcome to your wednesday stand here podcast i'm ryan that's musa you know us by now we've got a special one today we're recording this ahead of tuesday night's carabelle cup games or any fixtures actually on tuesday night so we're not going to talk about there's midweek La Liga games and it also means that we can't talk about the big one which is obviously Wurzberger quick kickers TSV Schwaben I've been there TSV Schwaben Augsburg nice town listen shout out to Wurzburg you mean you don't we're not going to get an hour on Ansbach versus TSV Buchbach no fine alright well you're lost everyone sorry sorry Patreon members well there's also Coppa Italia there's Frauenbundesliga and the Carabao Cup so if your team won congratulations if your team lost commiserations today we've got a really special one it's the first of these kind of shows that we're going to do but we're going to try and do one of these at least one a month maybe a couple a month where we bring on someone to talk about their specific club and today the first one I'm not going to lie we got in kind of listen like we're big we've got Neil Atkinson from the Anfield Rap on today and we're going to talk about Liverpool so we're really excited for you to hear it it was great fun and thanks to Neil for coming on and obviously if you're a Liverpool fan or even if you're not and you want to subscribe go to theanfieldrap.com and go and subscribe but yeah in the meantime a couple of bits of admin reminder don't forget to buy tickets for our London Live show if you are in London at the Southback Centre and also if you're listening to a clip of this on the free feed you can listen to the full episode of this and every single podcast in full, patreon.com forward slash stadio.

2:56You can also sign up for the Stadio Social Club. And also, if you are struggling to fully afford the membership, give us a shout. We're happy to subsidise some memberships for people. And also thanks to people who have bought the very, very, very high memberships to help us do that. Give us an email. Hello at stadio.football. And if we can help, we can. Neil Atkinson from the Anfield Rap. Welcome to the Stadio Podcast. What an honour to have you here.

3:18Neil Atkinson: I'm delighted to be here. I am the one who is honoured in this instance. trust me so thank you very much for having me gents oh my god i can't can't believe you've got him in the marble halls how you doing now i'm very well indeed i mean you know from a from a professional slash liverpool point of view how could you not be uh five out of five won the champions league game we're recording this in the run-up to the game against southampton uh where it means i will almost certainly get at least 45 minutes of watching alexander isak run around uh he might not do much more than run around although we did more than i thought he would do against Atletico Madrid but we will you know we will we will see him stride across the Anfield turf this evening almost certainly whilst yeah you know Liverpool all is good in the Liverpool world as champions as well it's worth pointing that out it's the first time really it's the first time ever I've been able to go to a capacity Anfield to welcome Liverpool as champions as an adult so you know all of this is good at the moment from a Liverpool point of view.

4:17well actually you kind of went on to what the first thing we wanted to ask you really was which is getting a bit more of a temperature check around the club from someone who obviously covers Liverpool because it's been quite a six months right you have obviously the high of winning the title the events of the actual parade itself which were which were horrible and like I think thankfully not as not as severe as they could have been you know in the aftermath of it you know the tragedy of losing Diogo Jota in the summer and then coming back with all of these new signings as well. How does it feel as someone who's a lot closer to it than we are?

4:48Neil Atkinson: You can also put in this week the really tragic events around Matt Beard as well from the position of the football club. It's... I mean, let's go all the way back to that day against Tottenham when we won the league. For a number of people it was the best day of their lives supporting a football team. It was like going to a wedding. It had a lot of wedding energy. People dressed up. People started to the day early, people met well in advance, and then it went according to plan. Where it didn't, i.e. they went one-nil down, everyone wrapped around, as happens at weddings, we'll make it work together, and then made it work together, and then there was the most fantastic post-reception, almost, the process, the way in which it went.

5:31Neil Atkinson: It felt like all of us got to go marry the league title, essentially, which I would strongly recommend. I'm not one for pictures, I tried to be one for pictures in the summer, and then my phone blew up, and I didn't have them backed up in mid-July, but I'm not one for pictures. But there's a picture I've got, I've managed to get a version of, of me hugging the league title. Oh, no way. And I said to the person taking it, listen, they're going to say don't do that, so just take as many as you can before you say don't do that. Hopefully we'll get a good one. So there's a picture of me with my arms literally wrapped around the league title because it's a funny thing.

6:04Neil Atkinson: Liverpool are the most successful club in English football history and I don't want to get into where you've got to get into the weeds of league cups and things in that they've won 20 league titles and six European Cups so that's they're the defining factors here you're on a podcast with an Arsenal fan and a Man United fan who don't push back come on everyone knows everyone knows but what that means is and listen two or three of those are doubles but what that means is there was only let's even pretend that they weren't there's 26 times in Liverpool's history therefore they've won one of the big two we've been going since 1892 when we actually remember what achievement means in a football sense in this country because of the long term competitive nature of this country and hopefully returning competitive nature of the country.

6:43Neil Atkinson: I think it was brilliant last season, even though we were defeated in a final, that the two domestic cups went to sides who were not known for winning trophies. I think it's a good thing if the three trophies are spread amongst three teams, and if then another side can win a European trophy, then brilliant. I think remembering what that achievement means and contextualising that's really important. So I will, yeah, Liverpool are the most successful team, et cetera, et cetera, but I had not been able to hug a league trophy, go to a match with Liverpool as champions. And what all of that meant and meant to so many people is hard to genuinely put into words.

7:19Neil Atkinson: It's my job to do it to an extent, but it was something so deeply emotional. Liverpool have a number of near misses in terms of that league title in front of people from 1990 onwards. I've always said, you know, my first year not winning the league title was the season of 102 when Arsenal went on and won it with a brilliant late season surge. but in that season Emil Heskey is unplayable at Ellen Road, Vladimir Schmitz scores a last-minute volley at home against Chelsea. These feel like things that happen in seasons that you win the league, spool forward to 08-09 when Liverpool go to Old Trafford and score four goals and look for all the world, like they're going to swoop in and nick this title away from United.

7:57Neil Atkinson: United drop points the following week, Makeda happens and Liverpool don't manage to get that title over the line. 13-14 is one, 18-19 is one and then we had 19-20 but in 1920 we never got the full idea of the celebration and we never got the parade and we never got also to start the next season as champions altogether for obvious reasons. So Liverpool won that league, obviously. It was done and dusted before the pandemic hit. So we felt the journey of becoming champions but we never actually got the moment. And against Tottenham we got the moment and people couldn't have loved it more. People couldn't have been more engaged, more all-in.

8:30Neil Atkinson: Go forward to the parade and obviously the parade was incredible right up until the point at which the news begins to break that this thing has happened. And I was out that night and it was a really funny thing because I just went to somewhere I feel safe, which is a bit of a dance bar, to be honest. And also a place where I knew I had the Wi-Fi password, as mad as that sounds, because you can get the news. And I'm trying to find out where everyone is. And I literally have like, you know, in this dive bar, I've got the password. And people are coming in and some people knew what had happened and some people didn't.

8:57Neil Atkinson: And there was almost like a group decision from the people who knew what had happened, not to really tell the people who didn't because they were having a fantastic time. and you didn't want to sort of impinge your your doom-laden news the best thing that happened was the next day when it became clear that it wasn't going to be an incident with any fatalities i'm sure the people to whom it happened and the people who observed it it will have been deeply traumatic so i don't mean to wash that trauma away but there was there was 24 hours there where it genuinely felt horrendous in the context of it all.

9:31Neil Atkinson: Yes, and the history as well. Yeah, and the obvious sort of, the fact that there would at least be attempts to draw parallels amongst it all was just exhausting, really. And then, you know, and really feeling all of that. And then that felt, you know, obviously as a positive. And then one day, one morning, the Jotter news breaks. God, yeah. And it leads to this sort of mass outpouring. You talked about the wedding, sorry. Sorry, you talk about the wedding. I hate to be crass, but the wedding atmosphere of winning. And then the grief, you know, in terms of the collective grief, if you go from the mass celebration to collective grief, how did the city, the village, Liverpool's, it's strange because it's like it's a city with the energy of a village.

10:16Yeah. It's intimacy. There's an intimacy. How, yeah, how did the city or the town, the village, manage the grief collectively?

10:22Neil Atkinson: I think it's important to also point out it's now we've managed and I mean this 95 % as a positive, to take that village and make it global. The outpouring was global. It's worth saying, you know, some people travelled in, some people sent people down, you know, we had requests from supporters clubs we've made friends with down the years where they've given us their scarves when we've gone to visit them to say, will you go and take our scarf? Will you go and leave that there? Is that all right? And you're like, of course it's all right. Well, you know, we'll make that happen. And then as part of that, you know, you have a funny relationship with the football club at times, you know, the football club now respects the Anfield, rap but you know we we are very separate but it was something where everyone then came together i did the first thing that lfc tv did after the the after after it sort of recommenced programming which was down at anfield in front of where all the scarves were being laid you know everyone everyone in the in that world came together and i say in that world i do literally mean globally i think it's an important thing and i think it's as i say it's a 95 positive thing that energy I think it is a good.

11:28Neil Atkinson: And that was there and it was present. And then it's worth saying as well, and it's very important to point out, the manager pointed out in his pre-match press conference before the Everton game, you know, there was Seamus Coleman, for instance, went down to the site completely privately, was photographed when he got there, but he didn't make a song and dance out of it. He wanted to go and pay his respect both for himself and on behalf of Everton. And that happened at a number of levels. And it happened across football as well. I think it's really important to point out that this is not something that's just sort of, You know, that outpouring of grief is not unique to Liverpool.

12:00Neil Atkinson: Obviously, there's high-profile instances like Wolverhampton Wanderers. It's also worth pointing out as well, obviously, that Diogo's brother, Andre, was a footballer, and that's there as well. So it's this world of football elements that Liverpool finds itself in the midst of, whilst then still having to go and fulfil fixtures. You know, I went to the Preston game, the first pre-season game, because ultimately the football keeps going. We know that now from countless iterations of this, unfortunately, the football just keeps going. and you've got to prepare yourself for that and be ready for that.

12:29Neil Atkinson: And I think it's important that in the context of the way the season starts. So I started to say on our shows, it's going to be emotional, the start of the campaign. There's going to be a lot of emotion. And one of the things that Schlott did brilliantly for his first three, four, five games last season, I thought was take the emotion out. So we go back to the start of 24-25, and Liverpool were quite, you know, I think the first game's a 2-0 win at Ipswich, where there's a rocky first half. The second game's a 2-0 win against Brentford. And we were in the pub in the game after Brentford and one of our contributors, Dan Austin, who did a lot of fantastic work around what went on in Paris.

13:04Yeah, he's great.

13:05Neil Atkinson: Yeah, Dan came up to me and went, it might just be a bit boring this. We might win, but it might just be a bit boring. And then me and Dan were both in the away end at United when we beat them 3-0 the next game. And Dan said, I'm into this. We'll take this all day. A nice chill league title. He's bought nine points, not conceded a goal yet. and we were having a lovely sort of warm chat about it. The start of this season, the first three in particular, were the absolute opposite. And I just sort of wonder if that had to be the case. Like if Liverpool were to get results, the wave of emotion had to be ridden.

13:40Neil Atkinson: That that was the way it was going to have to be. There was no getting away from that. That almost slot, who, as I say, last season did a brilliant job and by all accounts is an exceptional coach and leader of people. separate to the football stuff is a listener and is a truly engaged individual. I haven't had any time with him. I haven't sat down with him one-on-one, so I can't attest to that. But everyone I've spoken to who's been in the room and worked closely with him will speak of him so warmly. And he had to go through that with his players post-Diogo. He had to get through this. They had to get through this together.

14:17Neil Atkinson: And I wonder if part of what ends up happening, the very end of the first game, the Bournemouth game, has the made of concrete in so many ways Mo Salah crying his eyes out on the pitch in front of the supporters that I thought was really like a real glimpse of like what it's going to be like potentially inside and the stuff we're not going to see exactly but on his own as well choosing to have that moment but not on his own because the point was he had he was in front of 15 ,000 people and they were with him and they were comforting him and it was really interesting because I was at the pre-season friendly against Preston which was the first one after it happened and the end of that was, you know, there was just this endless singing of Diogo's song, the players on the pitch, the players looking at us, and it just couldn't end.

15:01Neil Atkinson: No one knew quite what to do about it. The first one to sort of turn and walk was Andy Robertson. He was very close to Diogo, and Curtis Jones went after him, clearly comforting him. And then it sort of dissolved, and it dissolved into chants of Liverpool and all together. And that felt like an echo with Salah on the pitch there. That felt like an echo of that. That's his Salah, and he wanted that again. And Salah's, you know, for me, he's amongst the most fascinating individuals in professional football across the last 10 years in a number of ways. Not least because I think he's also been really guarded of public perception of himself.

15:33Neil Atkinson: And yet here he is being completely nakedly emotional in front of a huge number of people and making that choice, feeling comfortable with it, but feeling like it's something he has to do. Can we talk about Salah? Yeah. Sorry to jump in, but can we talk about Salah? because what he means to Liverpool, culturally, but also tactically, right? Like all of it, the footballer, the individual, such a huge presence, such an incredible force coming off one of the best attacking seasons we will ever see a forward produce at any level, like regardless of awards that he wins or doesn't win. Controversially, maybe he doesn't win in some quarters.

16:12But Liverpool, of course, will have to move away from Salah. how is that process going both on the field and off the field how are you perceiving that

16:23Neil Atkinson: i think off the field it was interesting they didn't give him the vice captaincy he'd been increasingly important across the last couple of years clearly off the field i think there's there's a period there i'd argue possibly up until the the until the pandemic where i think salah's focus had been on the best possible salah yeah if you see what i mean how do i how do i maximise Mo Salah for me there's a defining image of Mo Salah in the aftermath of the 21-22 league season where on the pitch Liverpool Salah thinks he scored the goal to win Liverpool the league at home against Wolves the players all think City is still getting beat by Aston Villa Salah scores the place goes wild Salah goes insane he's kicking advertising hoardings he is he scored the goal that as far as he's concerned will be the one that will win Liverpool their league title in front of supporters and by the way the job Jurgen Klopp did 21-22 in terms of galvanising that team to win it in front of people is I think it's under discussed and Salah thinks he's won the league Joel Matip jogs over there's a great shot of Joel jogging over and he's asking someone the score and someone puts up their fingers 3-2 goes 3-2 City and Joel puts his head in his hands like he's such an expressive body Matip and is absolutely devastated and cut up and post-match there's this picture of Salah receiving the golden boot and I think maybe even the assist one I can't quite remember but certainly the golden boot and he's in tears he's in tears there isn't there isn't a moment here of well I got the golden boot sorry about the league title lads he is genuinely in tears that Liverpool have not won this league and the reason why Salah is so fascinated and I think from that point through that season I think his desire to have an emotional connection with the entire process of Liverpool I think has been huge so I'm not saying for a second he didn't have that he didn't want that or have that before that point or love the supporters or anything like that but I think something's changed when supporters come back into grounds I think Salah realised in that moment how much he loves the being people and he loves the people and he loves the way that goes and then from there I think you know there's lots of I love the quiet like Salah's clearly very intelligent I love Salah's quiet expressiveness so there's a wonderful video that came out of Klopp delivering his last ever post-match chat to the lads in 23-24 and Salah couldn't look more disinterested what on earth is this fella saying to me now is he going to shut up when's he leaving what's going on I can't honestly we've not won the league we've not won anything why am I sat here with this loser it's almost like Salah's body language but the younger players are all wrapped here's the legendary Jurgen Klopp and Salah's body language is almost like I'm sick of this guy but they'd have that friction haven't they visibly so as well but also they worked together at that point for seven years, Jürgen Jürgen-ing his head off.

19:13Neil Atkinson: I don't think necessarily particularly got Salah's attention at that stage, which is perfectly reasonable. Schlott comes in, and Schlott does a couple of things quite quickly, and I think it does shift, actually after that Man United game I referred to earlier on, is that I think that Schlott effectively creates a structure where Salah doesn't have to do very much defensive work at all. And Salah said that subsequently, and then from there, Salah has gone all in, and I think, as I say, I think he's really seen himself as a leader of this group. I think it makes sense not making him vice captain the reason why is for instance Andy Robertson again at the time of recording will lead Liverpool out against Southampton as vice captain and Sal is not touching a League Cup game if it was me he wouldn't touch one all the way through up until the final I'd have him on the bench in the final if we got to the final I'd have him on the bench in the final and I think what I would like to see the bigger clubs do is if you are going to use your squad for the early rounds of the League Cup I think you should see the process through I think it's the right thing to do with those lads and also I think it makes it the challenge it should be.

20:10Neil Atkinson: The reason why Liverpool supporters look back so fondly on the 23-24 League Cup final is that in the end, we win it with an unbelievably inexperienced set of footballers. And that added to the luster of the moment. That was a preview of today's episode of Stadio. If you want to join up for ad-free podcasts, extra podcasts, access to the Stadio Social Club and more, you can join us at patreon.com forward slash stadio.

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