Southampton's special FA Cup quarterfinal weekend

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1:46hello and welcome back to stadio podcast i'm mr konga i'm ryan hun ryan how you doing doing alright thanks man how are you fighting for my life with this pollen attack oh yeah I'm good otherwise yeah I'm good I'm good

2:00Ryan Hunn: well we hope everyone else is staying safe and well wherever you are there is a lot going on there is too much in fact but still we hope you're all looking after yourselves quick bit of admin yep another show this week about the Champions League on Thursday if you want to go and listen to that ad freedom for you can sign up for Stadio on Patreon patreon.com forward slash stadio and thanks to everyone who pre-ordered the merch the initial pre-order is done and so they'll be getting printed up and shipped out to you soon and then after a little period of time we're going to put together an actual permanent web shop that you can go and buy the merch all the time but yeah thanks to everyone who supported the merch run.

2:42Ryan Hunn: Check out our ongoing partnership with Kickback Soccer in the States go to kickbacksoccer.com to check out all of their stuff I'm going to be on one of their pods, I think, next week. Moosa, when's your thing going up for the newsletter? It's going up on Wednesday. So go and sign up for their newsletter, and you'll see Moosa's contribution to that. Yeah, yeah, looking forward to getting back into it. Did a podcast with them. I'm like, let me at them again. Can't wait. I think that's all the admin. Yep. So today, we're going to focus on the FA Cup, the men's FA Cup specifically. We're going to focus on Southampton, and we've got a guest.

3:20Ryan Hunn: the great Anifioch Ekpudum Southampton fan extended stadio family yes I think he was there at the game so we're going to talk to Neif about that and we'll talk about the rest of the quarterfinals and some other FA Cup stuff as well we'll do a very very quick round up afterwards but we'll keep it like this because it's going up a little bit later on Easter Monday and Champions League is back on Tuesday so we didn't want to make it too just results results results Yeah. So should we just get on to our conversation with Neith? Let's do it. Introducing Anif Yock Ekpudon, our guest, writer and journalist for so many outlets, author of the incredible Where We Come From, Rap, Home and Hope in Modern Britain, but most importantly for the purpose of this podcast, a Southampton fan.

4:08Neith, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. A very happy Southampton fan, I would say. And I appreciate the book shout out. there's a nice Moosa quote on the front of it for anyone who's read it or picked it up. It's a banger. Listen, I've never missed that chance to join a bandwagon.

4:27Ryan Hunn: Moosa, I thought you were going to say, and more importantly, a member of the Stadio Social Club. Oh, no. Nief's in there. Go to that saying. You can buy me in the discord. Definitely. Exactly. You'll see him lurking. So, Nief, you know, this is quite painful for me, as much as I love you, but it was painful on Saturday. Although not unexpected, weirdly. And I do have a soft spot for Southampton. I'm very happy for you guys going through. You were there, right? So I wanted to initially get your thoughts or just like a bit of a summary on what it was actually like being there for this game against Arsenal, seeing the win and how it may be compared to other times that you've been to watch Southampton because I know this is, we're going to talk about it a little later but this is quite an interesting addition to quite an interesting season for you lot.

5:20Yeah, definitely. Personally, commiserations, obviously. I have a bit of a soft spot for Arsenal as well, so it was kind of working everywhere else. But it was honestly, I think it was one of the best, probably my best and most favourite experience watching Southampton Live so far. Wow. I think I got there into Southampton. It was an 8pm kickoff, so it was really late. So when that got announced, initially it was like, I'm going to have to drive two hours from South London into Southampton. What time am I going to get back? But I got into Southampton around maybe 6pm and you could already feel there was like a bit of an energy around the city with people walking into the stadium.

5:57If you go to St. Mary's, it's quite a long walk from the station or wherever you have to park. So you're walking about half an hour and you could already feel there was a bit of an energy and excitement around people who were flooding into the stadium. And I think initially, I think when the draw got made, There was obviously trepidation because Arsenal have been the best team, arguably in Europe this season. But there was weirdly also like a bit of, there was a bit of an edge and there was a little bit of confidence because we've been on a, I think we're 14 games unbeaten. And we've been on like an amazing run since the turn of the year, really.

6:29So there was, I think when your team is playing well and you're winning games, there was almost this sense of delusion that comes over fans that you think, regardless of the odds ahead of you, you do think there's still a chance. So I was going into the game nervous, of course, but thinking I wouldn't be massively surprised if we at least made it an interesting game. It's funny because I've got twin brother who's an Arsenal fan. So we've been going back and forth like the whole week about. And I was telling him like, just don't be so surprised if maybe the result isn't what you're expecting. But getting into the ground, I think that really, I think maybe transmuted the energy around those weeks leading up into it.

7:10into like the stadium. I think when you get into the ground, there were, it's obviously been 50 years since the Saints won the FA Cup in 1976. So that was a big part of like the buildup in the week. And there were a lot of the winners from that team were like sitting with the current players from this squad in the FA Cup this year, been wearing like the yellow jerseys as kind of a commemoration to that moment too. And it seemed like not only were the playing staff taking it seriously, but the club had really taken like the FA Cup seriously this year too. And you could feel it when you got into the ground because they had like a lot of ex-players being interviewed at the side of the pitch and whatnot um to the point where when I got in there I was like oh we actually might be able to be able to win this which was really nice um and then I think also one of the biggest things was it was interesting to see the players warming up at the side of the pitch you I was kind of watching some of the Arsenal players warming up and watching the Southampton players warming up and whilst they were playing all of these montages and some of these interviews of ex-pros and they had them pitch side you kind of saw the Arsenal players looking around a bit like wait what is going on here we thought we were just kind of turning up for an FA Cup quarterfinal but there's like there are people screaming on the side of the pitch there are X players screaming on the side of the pitch and I think there was maybe a bit of confusion but I think maybe that happens when you're in a position where Arsenal are people are not just giving you their best look they're giving you like almost playing it like it is a cup final in that sense um so I think maybe there was not to say that Arsenal underestimated it in any way because I don't think that would be the case but I think maybe like the intensity of the moment wasn't something they'd gathered beyond just this game um in itself but like the whole history that was leading up into the game uh as well also when the game got announced as the 8pm

8:48Ryan Hunn: one my radar just went off i was just like i don't like that i think it's a different game if it's an early kickoff or an afternoon kickoff or even you know even like the what was it there there was a lunchtime one there's a 5 15 or whatever i think it's a different game if it's one of those two or the Sunday game I just think that 8 p.m. kickoff felt like perfect for Saints because it allows them to all of the things that you just said there I think are magnified under a floodlight on a Saturday night we'll talk about the game in a sec but I think one of the things that is a really good takeaway from this game is that it wasn't like Southampton played like exactly how you would want to play this kind of tie after all of that stuff had happened early on.

9:37Ryan Hunn: Do you know what I mean? They didn't kind of just sit back and absorb loads of pressure and go and try and smash and grab. They were actually pretty steady. I know Arsenal had a ton of shots and we can go into the statistics and if Arsenal come away from this game and win, it's not controversial. But I think that Southampton looked... They just had like an extra edge to them and I think that... That's why coming away from it, I think it was a completely... deserved result you know i don't think it was a fluke or anything by any means yeah it was really interesting listening to the manager tonda eckhart in the in the lead up to the game and then also hearing what some of the players had to say after the game um and as you said we didn't kind of necessarily approach the game as i think maybe some expected which was to kind of sit deep for large periods and kind of try and soak up the pressure i think taylor harwood bellis had a really interesting interview after the game and he kind of said the manager said that we're at home so the pressure is on us to go and win whereas I think usually in those dynamics you'd expect people almost treated like a bit of a free hit like if you go to Arsenal it's not too bad as long as you make a good account of yourselves but the players are all quite set and the manager was really set on the idea that this is our game to win if we're at home the pressure should necessarily should be on us and though of course you have to respect Arsenal how can you not having seen how they played this year but there shouldn't necessarily be a fear there and I think you saw that um in the way we approached it i think there was a lot of times where we played on the counter at times but i think there were also times where i think especially the center backs were really brave and trying to keep the ball for periods of time without necessarily almost treating it like a hot potato in that sense you could feel in the ground like a lot of fans next to me were getting nervous when we'd win the ball back and they'd be like oh no kick it long or get rid of it and you can see there was a real emphasis on okay once we have the ball we're probably not going to have it for large stretches uh maybe like we're used to in the championship so when we have it try and at least keep it for periods um to take some of the to take a little bit of the pressure off of us so yeah um yeah I was really proud with like how we played one of our best performances of the season definitely but not necessarily out of line with how we've been performing over the past few months too which was I think the really nice um element of it I think sometimes you can be involved in cup upsets and it feels like you almost back to reality the week after but it feels like this is a nice continuation of momentum as we kind of hopefully push for play of some promotion in the few in the company can i say this i thought you were tactically perfect um i thought you're amazing so i thought what struck me quite early on from the very beginning was the way you broke and the positions you took in order to break so there's something i thought i don't know if this is what how you saw it but i'll just throw in what i thought what was super interesting in contrast to like some games where you see people double or triple team wingers you were very comfortable with single coverage right even against like downman who i thought was i thought i was also best attacker you were very confident with single coverage uh on downman which i thought was really a sign of confidence and then also what you did was in terms of how you sat it was almost like a mid-level thing where the moment arsenal crossed i think even the center circle or like that breached it bang you were on them and you were very good at like exposing uncertainty and decision making.

12:47So let's say like, um, Miles Lewis, Skelly would come into the center circle and you were on him. It was like a bear trap. It reminded me quite a lot of like England women against, Spain women against England, the World Cup final. The moment he came to central areas and went diagonal, you had like two or three Southampton players just like crowding. It happened to Gabriel Jesus. It happened even weirdly enough. Someone like Kai Havertz, who's so good at losing people, that central space was so congested. He couldn't really like disappear like he does, like in terms of the coverage. And then like forcing the centre-backs, Arsenal centre-backs were looking up, looking for playmaking opportunities.

13:20And because I think they didn't have the combination of players they normally have where they can really establish passing tempo, they would look up and they couldn't necessarily build the passing tempo. So they would make passes, make mistakes because they would look up and just see a wall in the central areas. And I thought just Southampton, especially that guy was the winger, Skienza. Oh my God. Like that guy, the way that guy moved around the pitch not only the way he broke but defended switched wings there's a guy I love I always talk about Sadio listeners will be tired when we talk about this guy Concei Sal who plays for Juventus and this was like I love Concei Sal Chico Concei Sal like you know Sergio's son but this was such a Concei Sal performance in terms of ball carrying efficiency and just I couldn't praise this performance enough I just thought Southampton like they just optimised the game plan of what they had how they set up they did it with complete respect for Arsenal and their quality but also there was so much self-belief in what they were doing I loved it

14:18Ryan Hunn: I think from an Arsenal perspective as well I think it's I get the angst right and Musa and Nif it'd be great to get both of your takes on this as non-Arsenal fans eventually but I get the angst where especially you lose back-to-back games for the first time this season you have the international break after losing the Carabao Cup final you come back you think right we've got we've got to go now this is the final part of the season and then no but I do think that you could play that game against a few different kinds of opposition and you come through that I think that the kind of specific nature of Southampton on that Saturday with everything that's going on for them as well this season in terms of Eckert's emergence and turning them around especially where they were at the beginning of the season because I have to admit I really loved the idea of Will Still at Southampton and I think a lot of people did I think if you thought where his stock and his reputation was going, you were like I kind of like that, I like where this might go and it just did not work and I think that the ability for him to come in or to be promoted and to then take them to where he is now, this to me feels like, whether they go up or not and I hope they do because I think it would be great to have Southampton back in Premier League I'm glad that they kind of got this as almost like a as like a almost like a sign of what has happened this season sounds a bit weird saying it's a souvenir but they will be like that even if we just miss out on the playoffs we gave ourselves way too much to do because of the early season form but look at what we did against Arsenal right and I think from from an Arsenal fan perspective there were some elements of the performance that was like I'm not wild about this but I think it also just happens when you have quite an unfamiliar combination in a line-up.

16:10Ryan Hunn: A lot of those players haven't played together in that configuration before. A lot of players out still. And also, like you say, Nif, maybe them just not underestimating Southampton but maybe misunderstanding what that cooktie was actually going to be like. Yeah, definitely. When I saw the starting line-up go up and I saw Havertz and Odegaard starting in midfield, that was maybe the first moment I was like, oh, that's interesting. Obviously, we know Odegaard's had quite a bad injury and I don't think that combination of the three had maybe played together before. I think maybe that might be the first time this season.

16:49But then also knowing how we were going to approach the game. I think maybe Artek was maybe expecting, of course, you've spoken before on here and I think a lot of people have spoken about the difficulties in breaking down low blocks, especially in the Premier League. And I think maybe he was anticipating that might have maybe been a little bit of the case here and so having that midfield free maybe was going to give him a bit more options in that sense but I think with Sienza as you say Moussa and then Tom Fellows on the other side they both like essentially like wrong footed wingers who are always going to come inside so I knew that yes when you were watching the game you could see they were kind of flooding that midfield and have a noder guard not necessarily being able to cope with like that from a defensive point of view I think was quite a big thing but I think also like the, to give Arsenal a little grace, I do think the international breaks was maybe a little bit tough, but to come back from that with, I guess, without that rhythm that you'd hoped, you'd hope for.

17:42I know like Tom Deckard was saying that him, they'd been preparing for like 15 days, essentially for this game. And then the players that did get on the international duty, like Shea Charles and whatnot, they didn't start because he said they haven't been in training in the way that Cam Bragg, who is a 20 year old, I think it was his ninth appearance for Saints, had been in training the whole time so I think that level of preparation we were able to have that of course Arsenal with I don't know how many internationals you probably had basically the entire squad

18:08Ryan Hunn: I think a lot of them withdrew though but I think a lot of those weren't available yesterday not yesterday on the week on Saturday either so it's one of those I know a lot of people kind of I saw a bit a lot of the banter was like oh but look at all the guys you pulled out the squads and I was just like, yeah, but we'll play. I think this was the perfect storm of Southampton at St. Mary's. And let's not forget, St. Mary's has been a horrible place. No disrespect to Southampton fans. Oh, let me land. It has been a horrible place to go and get a resort for a long time. And as a United fan, even when we were good, I was like, well, arguably we're good again.

18:44But when we were like really good, it was like a pointless St. Mary's was like, just get the hell out of there with a point. That has always been the default. No, for me, as long as I can remember,

18:53Ryan Hunn: going there at the famous uh the famous hazenhuttle apology celebration when that was an arsenal game so yeahst mary's this for me was like almost like yeah i know what this feels like and it's funny you should say that as a saints fan because me looking at this lineup i was like yeah they've got a chance here just given the fact that these attacking combinations aren't that well established we've seen like martinelli maybe struggle in this kind of configuration before and he look at his best we know what he can do but when he hit one over the bar I think in the first half I was like oh man he's like not he hasn't got his sights on and he never fully got them it just felt like Arsenal always gonna give Saints a bit of a chance with this and I think look maybe this is in Arteta's defense I'm not sure this is not the 11 even with the absentees this is not the 11 of someone that was desperate to win the FA Cup.

19:51Like, not desperate, like, if I think about it, because even you might argue, okay, look, some of these players are a bit tired. Well, in that case, give them the first 45. Like, Victor Jokorish had the hot hand after his playoff performances. That is someone, I think, with Havertz that you start, for example. But look, all that being said, I don't want to drift too much from praising Southampton because I just watched this performance and from start to finish, I just thought, tactical masterclass. Even the way you played out, the safety with which you played out from the back i mean just incredible go all along the touchline up the rail don't bait any trouble don't risk the counter don't risk the turnover and then again you were forcing arslan to mistakes because they were getting awkward ball or they were making runs into avenues that southampton wanted them to there's so many times you look at the possession stats they don't tell the story where it's like yeah but you're making them go where you want them to go you're making them seek out the mismatches in certain places and they're not switching enough to make you unpredictable.

20:48I thought one thing that Arsenal missed the trick on, and this is, I'm not to second guess Arteta, but I thought that the fluidity of Southampton's players, and this was the thing, the fluidity as for City against Liverpool was absolutely key. And one thing that Arsenal didn't match Southampton for was that. They kept asking the same kind of questions. And it's not they did too much wrong in the early stages. You saw them dropping deep. They weren't complacent. They were dropping back with Nagor, Odegaard, looking for the gaps. They were not, But the gaps didn't appear. And when they didn't appear, they didn't change stuff up.

21:19And I think that was the key, actually. They didn't change it up.

21:22Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I think you're completely right, Musa. I think also the prominent or the only times that it felt like Arsenal really turned Saints around was when Max Downman broke through the Lions. They didn't really pass through them that often. A lot of that possession stuff was not... They weren't really circulating the ball to create interesting looks. But at the same time, just as a caveat, they probably could have got a couple. Minotegor had one which he kind of scuffed you mentioned the Martinelli one Daumann had a good chance I think that's where I kind of land on this from my Arsenal point of view really disappointed to go out of another competition but I think I've said this on Sadio a couple of times already this season where I'm fearing the aftermath of the result more than the actual result itself unless Arsenal are dreadful in games then I can kind of look at something like this.

22:14Ryan Hunn: You know, we were talking a little bit before we started recording about someone pulled up some reaction from Arsenal 22 years ago in the season that they went invincible. And around this time, it started to get a bit similar. So it's going to happen, right? Because this is where you get a condensed amount of really, really important games in one part of the season. It really felt like a game that Southampton won as opposed to a game that Arsenal went and lost. And I think for me, that's a really key factor. Yeah, I love that. I love that analysis. Can I say as well, actually, Niamh, before you come back in, I want to just talk about your reaction after Arsenal's subs because I was super impressed by that.

22:53I want to get your take on that because, especially with the goal that Arsenal scored, the way they opened them up, Havertz, the patient cross across in Jokeresh with the finish, it felt like at that point, Arsenal had really tooled up. and I thought the way that the Saints went on and like absorbed that blow and carried on was really impressive how did you how did that feel inside the stadium in terms of that like that resilience yeah I think when that when the equaliser went in you could feel it kind of sucked the energy out of the stadium a little bit quite a lot actually I think up until that point there was as you said there was the Odegaard chance early on in the first half but outside of that it felt like although Arsenal having a lot of possession there weren't as maybe as many clear-cut chances or real moments of terror or panic in the back line and then I think it really put into perspective like what happens when you play like a really good team essentially that in a second you can go from Gabriel having the ball near the halfway line to then being as them scoring a goal within five seven seconds of that so it really sucked the energy out the stadium for a little bit but um and I didn't notice after that goal went in I think Arteta took his jacket off and then Tonda did at the same time too so they were both when you get into business.

24:06I think the team reacted really well to that. And I think the substitutions, when we was, I think, especially when you support like a quote unquote smaller club, you've seen that you've been in this position so many times that you've maybe gone 1-0 up before and then there's an equalizer and then you start to see like the big guns kind of warming up for substitutions on the side of the pitch. And it felt like, is this game just going to follow that narrative that I guess I've seen play out over and over again? But I think the substitutions that I remember, I think we're really positive in that sense.

24:34And Shea Charles came on, who's probably hardly been our best player this season and maybe is our best player. So I think we were in a rare position where we actually had our own quality to bring off the bench in that sense. I think a lot of teams, when you're playing in this kind of match, you maybe run out of steam a little bit and you don't have the quality on the bench to maybe replicate what you have on the pitch. But I feel like with Shea Charles and then Kyle Lahren, who came on up front for Ross Stewart, it felt like we could still continue to execute the game plan without maybe losing some of that edge and intensity.

25:04And I think by that point, I think the fans had really bought in to the game because we were playing so well. So though the energy got sucked out, I think people did come around quite quickly again to, I guess, to believe in that maybe a result was possible. And I think as the game continued to go on into like the 80th minute, the 85th minute, it didn't feel like it was going to be a quick Arsenal get one, then they get another, and then they get a third. And then the game is kind of done in that sense. so yeah it was it was it was really really beautiful really beautiful atmosphere in the ground I went by myself and I was sitting next to one guy I think he was 76 and then the other guy on my right was like I think it was in his 80s when that second goal went in they both just grabbed me or like shaking me like in the stand so it was a it was a really oh man

25:48Ryan Hunn: it's amazing amazing I have to say when that second goal went in I was just like that's it there is no way there is no way that's not the game just seen that movie too many times so let's maybe move it on to how you're feeling about going back to Wembley, it's actually not been too long for Southampton although it wasn't Covid was it, the last semi-final it was, Chelsea was the last semi-final FA Cup semi-final but was it in Covid? no it was in the Covid season, it was just before that but yeah we've been to Wembley a few times now over the past few years, obviously through the playoffs and then we've had like the Carabao Cup semi-final against United and whatnot but I feel like it comes back to what you were saying earlier about almost having these little souvenirs I think that's the most important thing I think if you're a team that aren't necessarily going to be winning loads of trophies over the course of your history I think it's important to have like little results and moments that do define the time period I feel like with Hasenhutl and we had like some of those real landmark results that a lot of Saints fans revisit with like the Pochettino era and the Koeman era as well like there are loads of these little results scattered and peppered through where we've maybe beaten Liverpool or come back 2-0 down against somebody and we've beaten the City, we've beaten Arsenal and I feel like we hadn't really had many of those moments for a little while now just because of how maybe dour things had been with how last season went and two relegations in four years so it didn't feel there were as many of those moments to kind of cling on to and I think one thing this current squad have done really well is actually start to give us a few of those moments over this season so there was like the coming back three nil down against Leicester a few weeks back I think um obviously beat Fulham in the last minutes even get into the into the quarterfinals and then obviously this result against Arsenal so I'm hoping like the Wembley experience will just be another one of those even if we don't necessarily win us all the draw so but um yeah I'm really I was gonna ask you what how do you feel about the draw yeah going into it it was kind of anybody but city we were hoping for the final but um I think it's exciting regardless and I think if we're still in the form we are in I still think there's going to be like a little bit of confidence there and still a bit of an edge there and I think I've been to Wembley before to watch Saints a few times and it is always like days that I continue to remember in like my footballing fandom but hopefully I get to see us win there once, that would be nice Well you've got a couple of cities Sorry I was going to say you're playing a side who unveiled a banner which said Wembley again, ole ole Did you see the city banner that they unveiled.

28:21It's so common for them to be there.

28:24Ryan Hunn: Is it something like the 20th I don't know it's like the 25th time under Pep or something stupid that they've gone to Wembley. It's so mad. There's a thing because a couple of the City a couple of players in the Saints team are actually City old boys aren't they I think. Graduates right? Yeah graduates I think Charles and also I think Harwell Ellis is it? Yeah yeah. Harwell Ellis yeah. But on Charles I want to say very quickly on his finish his goal you know i love about this goal actually this is very much the goal of a team that's not expected to spend a huge amount of time in the final third like just in terms of like the transition the speed of the ball like this is how you handle a hot potato for those watching like and even like charles is finished the way he shifts feet is so good like there's like no chance at all for any like arsenal player to get their bearings there and i saw this finish and immediately like you know when you see a goal like that it makes a gun on a bit of a wormhole and kind of like oh like what's this person about, what they've been up to and what I love seeing is these players who've come through these ranks just having their platform to shine.

29:26But that is what I'm so hyped about for this Southampton Cup run and look, the thing that concerns me a little bit is it's not that it's City, it's more like the wide open spaces of Wembley and just that pitch and given that City and wide areas are devastating, I'm going to be so interested to see how Southampton deal with the extra coverage they're going to have to keep players like Doku and then also like how they defend through the middle because I think in this game they were allowed to be very central but I think against City it's like oh you're going to have to commit more bodies out wide so what are you going to do centrally so that's going to be I think an interesting wrinkle to sort out but yeah I'm intrigued.

30:03Yeah yeah I think it's going to be a very different threat as you say I think and I think with something like the manager had said he's got a really interesting backstory in And he used to be an analyst for the German national team. And a big part of his remit wasn't necessarily just research in football. It was research and like the culture of the country they were facing. So like when they faced Ghana in like 2014, I think he visited Ghana and they learn about what's the national instrument of Ghana. Like what is the culture of Ghana? And he's kind of brought that. Steam Black Ops.

30:38Ryan Hunn: Download a food recommendation. but he's uh he's kind of brought that element back into in his first managerial job here at saints i know before the fulham game he was talking a lot about where is fulham situated in london like what are the fans like how do they react to pressure are they under pressure to play good football so i'm interested to see like what his dossier on like this city team god do you know it's amazing about him because his his um his body language in relation to each goal was so interesting like he it was it wasn't you know it's not quite ancelotti of course not but it was like he celebrated like someone that was expecting to score it was so clever he was acting like yep good yeah as in like his body language was this is the natural culmination of our efforts which it was actually but it was funny because it reminded you how much of um management is performance uh and it's funny because you watch coaches as much as as ryan does it's funny like talking to someone like yunifu sees the nuances of like the clothing like ryan does all these other elements but one thing i saw about like his demeanor his pitch side demeanor it's like he's conducting you're showing because what you're doing is you're showing the arsenal fans you're showing arsenal's a team oh i'm on the same level this could be a premier league game i'm not acting like i'm overawed i have a strategy and this is how the strategy should be rolled out like he never looked like sometimes when people coming up against teams that are from higher divisions or with big reputations they celebrate like they've got away with something or they can't believe they're there.

32:08And I thought that was, I'm going to be intrigued how he matches up against Pep and what his demeanour is going to be like against Pep too. Yeah, the same thing. I'm really fascinated by it. Yeah, on the sideline, he's quite intense as an individual. He doesn't really smile much. I think even in the post-match interviews, it kind of felt like, are you happy that we'd won?

32:29But it'll be interesting to see how he matches up against Pep. I think obviously ahead of this Arsenal game, we've kind of flown under the radar a little bit. live like with the likes of Sianza, Charles and whatnot. And I think now, obviously, with this game being a quarterfinal and it was obviously on TV and whatnot, I feel like kind of like the, what's the phrase? The rabbit's out the bag, cat's out the bag. Cat's out the bag. Rabbit's out the hat, cat's out the bag. I feel like that element of surprise maybe might not be there anymore. But yeah, I'm really interested to see where he goes, especially as he's like 33, I think.

33:01I think he's the second youngest manager in the whole the football league after Herzler so to see what he's done at such a young age I think is also remarkable a bit intimidating as well yeah yeah God his work does

33:14Ryan Hunn: really interesting coaches he was under Rosa at Salzburg but he's also been under Moose apparently he was under Blessing when Blessing was at Genoa no way yeah when you see certain people have got like footballing education we always talk about Ander Herrera how he played under all these amazing coaches which is why he himself might be a great coach because he's just literally seen like you know bielsa up close and all the rest of it and van haal and i wonder if this is a similar thing oh but before i forget on coaching prediction this is my one prediction for the um the semi-final this is guaranteed to happen whatever happens in terms of the result pep is going to go up to ryan manning at full time put his arm around him or point his chest and like and shout at him for like three minutes going, I've been watching you for seven years.

34:01This is what you have to improve in your game. And I've been watching you from afar, but I've never thought of signing you. You can guarantee Pep's going to do this. You're my Nathan Redmond of 2026. Yes, it's going to be it's Pep's tradition. If he starts in the pre-match press conferences, if he starts really bigging us up, that's where I'm going to be.

34:23Ryan Hunn: I hate it when Pep does this. Pep used to do it to, was it to Bournemouth he used to Bournemouth all the time and he'd be like the way these guys play football unbelievable like the play the way they move they do this they do this and then it'd be like it'd be like how it started how was it going Man City 9 Bournemouth 0 he'd be like these guys are amazing I think this is like his own aura building do you know what I mean I'm just gonna start I'm just gonna start doing this whenever I like achieve anything it's incredible try and big it up beforehand that's amazing It's amazing. Well, congrats, Neif, on it.

35:01Ryan Hunn: And we're all going to be rooting for a Southampton-Leads final, I think. Apart from the Chelsea and Man City fans who are listening, obviously. But how good would it be, though? It would feel very 1970s, actually, having a Southampton-Leads final. Yeah, I would love for us to get to the final. I do think the Crystal Palace effect has... I think you're starting to see that a little bit, too, in terms of how teams of a similar stature do treat the cup and maybe there being a little bit more belief around actually being able to, if not get to a final, at least progress to a final. And I think you've kind of seen that of how we treat the cup.

35:35I don't think it would necessarily have been the same if this was last year or the year before. So yeah, I'd love to see a Saints-Leeds final as well, especially if we beat them at Wembley like two years ago. So that would be nice to repeat that. So there's history there. There it is, the first shots fired.

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36:19Ryan Hunn: Let's talk about Leeds. Going through on penalties against West Ham after it was it was 2-0 after full time 2-0 after extra time wild game at London Stadium where a load of fans decided to leave in stoppage time and couldn't get back in oh god do you know what I want to talk about this because I think it's one of those where like what is your what's your cut off or your okay I think if it's 3-0 in stoppage time if there's a 3-goal margin in stoppage time I think I'm good you know I think I'll 2 goals especially when there was 11 minutes not entirely sure where that 11 minutes came from let's talk about cutoff points first of all because that's interesting so the example i always use is when argentina beat croatia in that semi-final world cup semi-final men's semi-final and they were three nil up it was only when modric went off that the game felt safe and it was still three nil like it didn't feel safe then but because modric crossing we always said this modric crossing the halfway line is like the start of a horror movie right because he's seen something that no one else has seen um so three and all i think is the cutoff i also think with the west ham fans in their defense i think you know what a season of heartbreak you're almost insulating yourself from the collective pain of the final whistle when like you know the whistle goes and the jeers go round and you almost don't want to live that because you've been living that like for months so in their defense i get that i'm just just i'm not criticizing the fans for leaving no no not at all not at all i'm just thinking about cutoff points in terms of what the kind of spiritual you know when do you feel like it's gone and you're just trying to like avoid the pain and just get out into the car park or you know onto the public transport and you're off into the wind but in terms of Leeds this season this felt like such a Leeds thing it feels like they've invited they've invited so much chaos this year Niamh how did you see it how what was your take on it yeah the cut points uh I kind of agree with what you're saying me so around I do think it really depends on how the season's been playing out so far and like the energy around the club at the time um because i went to a bit last season obviously southampton was was this kind of a terrible season and there'll be games where although it might be 2-0 at 64 minutes you know that realistically the game is done at that sense and i can imagine some west ham fans with it maybe not being the season they'd hoped for or expected there is that kind of idea that are we realistically going to pull this back at 89 minutes but i think we are in modern football where extra time as you say it doesn't necessarily mean 90 plus two that could be 90 plus 11 so there is that little um caveat in there but i can understand it so i maybe would have left too i'm not gonna there was a point in the second i think it was the second period of extra time where it felt like that game had been on all day i think it's because it's two teams that have made in their own way quite hard work of this season like this is the thing okay in the defense these are like it's like this is industrious players right these players aren't where they are because I think necessarily they haven't put in a shift it's just that if you look at the quality in the Premier League and the margins these are teams if you look at the lineups these are teams you look at them thinking they're going to be outmatched player for player by most sides it's just the way it is unfortunately it's the talent drain and also like for West Ham they've shown some sort of green shoots in a couple of games recently where you think actually if they get on a run they get a result like this this is devastating for them because it gave them a taste I will so though I loved I loved the energy of the keeper that came on I loved his energy in the shootout I just thought the way he came in it was Finley Herrick like the one that he saved the one that he didn't going oh I was that close I was like this when he saved that first one it was just kind of like your debut it's your debut isn't it like you come in like the thing I was watching this on TNT comms and there was one thing where I took issue with Darren Fletcher on comms.

40:11Ryan Hunn: He was just like, he's got to get, he came on and he was like, he's going to be stood in front of the 9 ,000 or so Leeds fans. He's going to hear things he's never heard before. And I was like, he's played in the National League not too long ago. You can hear everything. It's usually worse in the National League because it's so, you know, they're like two meters away from you. He has heard a creativity of insult that mainstream broadcasting is not ready for. I mean, there's insults that we've all heard as people that have played football or whatever level that we can't repeat on this podcast. Directed at us.

40:46I remember playing a game in Berlin

40:47Ryan Hunn: which it kicked off and there was a guy who was going for one of our players whilst holding his child.

40:56I was like,

40:57Ryan Hunn: this is a terrible look. Just a terrible look all around.

41:03Incredible, incredible. But yeah, a really, really great game great resilience actually I think from Leeds too because in the shootout when it started going West Ham's way there was a lot of Leeds fans who were like oh this is just what happens to us but they pulled it around super impressive actually especially as well like Perry in the Leeds goal had like he'd had a he'd had an adventurous afternoon I think it's fair to say when he comes off the line and tries to have the ball clear instead of just catching it but I get in a way in his defence I love that.

41:36Ryan Hunn: I'm not going to lie. I think that, you know, weirdly enough, I think, I don't think he knew where the line was beneath him. I think that he was at that point where you're just on the edge. You're like, you know what, I could give a penalty away here because he'd come out and I think he'd taken off slightly before. And so at that point, he was looking at the ball and the onrushing attacker thinking, to be completely safe, I'll just head it. But of course, I don't think he heads the ball very often. I think it's fair to say that. I have to say, it sounded, the atmosphere sounded amazing in there and they've done that.

42:05Ryan Hunn: They've, It's felt like there's been a couple of West Ham games, maybe three this season, that have felt loud. I think it's a tough place to generate an atmosphere in that stadium. And a couple of West Ham fans that I know have said the same thing, where you compare it to Upton Park, and Upton Park you were right on the crowd, basically. And the acoustics are with you, exactly. Because of the design of the stadium, everyone is just really far away from the pitch. Can I actually throw this into West Ham's defence too, about atmosphere in the stadium? the atmosphere began at Upton Park, like on the one, on the one one five, I think it was like you're generating atmosphere from that bus all the way from there up into the stadium.

42:45And that's the energy you're bringing. Right. Whereas where do you begin to generate atmosphere for West? You have to start generating in the stadium. Whereas like the momentum of building it in the old place was just the acoustics. It wasn't just the acoustics, the stadium, the acoustics is the whole of that, that like neighborhood were in your favor. It's similar to South Bermondsey. It's on top of you. The moment you come out of South Bermondsey Station, Millwall is on top of you as an energy. And I don't think you can really get that in the new space to the same extent. And I think fans are having to work with, I think, less, which is paradoxical, right?

43:22But yeah, the atmosphere they generated was incredible for that. And certainly when the equalizer went in, you were like, man, this is like... Actually, to be honest, even Fernandes scored. the noise then was like like i'm lucky i was not a leeds fan because i would have been like yeah i'm feeling afraid yeah no i'd agree i think i've been to um to west ham stadium a few times now and it is i think location wise it's just in a weird place i think obviously with the legacy of the olympics and they kind of how they cleared out that entire part of east london and they've created this kind of almost artificial town that lives there i think it is you they're almost having to write in like an entire new history of the club even though they obviously have a long history but moving from Ups and Park to where they're at now I think you're having to generate like a new narrative for the club which I think is also really difficult and you don't maybe have that to pull on in the same way when you're approaching big games so I really give a testament to the fans for being able to actually generate that sense of atmosphere in there but I think also it was I loved it it was probably my favourite most entertaining tie of the weekend I would say and I think it was just the moment I was watching it I think Bowen had just hit the post maybe for the second time I was like the FA Cup has been great this year I feel like it's had a bit of a renaissance like having all of those games on blocked out for the weekend apart from like the EFL and stuff like that I think was great and I think this was a great advert for it but I know we were talking before about almost the importance of players almost being stoic like I think yeah Finlay Herrick I think I did appreciate he was almost the very the complete opposite of that when he saved the first penalty but I did appreciate that a little bit I think with footballers it's so rare now to almost get a chink into like that little sense of emotion that lives underneath it so I quite love that because I feel like that's how most people celebrate if they had just been substituted in the FA Cup quarterfinal and saved the first penalty I think that was your natural reaction so it was quite nice to see like but he'll always have that as well that's the thing he'll always be that guy like and it wasn't like trolling it wasn't like Emi Martinez it was more like and even if it was to be honest actually fine actually let me go differently

45:28Ryan Hunn: even if it was that performance that personality that's what you're there for as a goalkeeper to narrow the odds because no one even with all the analytics about like penalty stats and all the rest of it people are still not really backing the goalkeeper they're not really like and that's why we were talking the other day about how you know they faced down Donnarumma in the shootout Bosnia and Herzegovina like going up against that dude in the shootout even there you're still marginally favouring the attacker. So goalkeepers are always kind of expected to kind of put on a bit of a show to bring it into their favour, bring it more 50-50, and he did that.

46:06It was incredible.

46:08Ryan Hunn: I have to admit, as a neutral, and apologies to West Ham fans, but I'm glad Leeds didn't throw it away. It turned into a real epic, and no one came out of it looking badly. To throw away two goals in stoppage time at the end of the 90 minutes, and then if they'd gone out, I would have really worried about them. Because that just feels a bit... I've loved Leeds this year. And this now makes a good season into a great season, in my opinion. Yes, for sure. You know? And the football they've played, a lot of it, they're good value for it. It's going to make that run-in super interesting as well. Because that's going to be a game right in the middle of the Premier League run-in.

46:51Ryan Hunn: I think that's the only... I don't want to sound like I'm doing the hardcore Arsenal fan cope here. but the only silver lining really from this FA Cup weekend as an Arsenal fan is the fact you're like, right, that's one game less. And not just the game but the energy of it. And the timing of it as well. Like going to Wembley, playing a game then at that period. Hot take. No, no. The discourse around Arsenal losing now is not a quarter as bad as it would be the discourse of them losing later. losing a semi-final yeah semi-final or the final yeah yeah discourse is unbearable if that happens yep let's talk about the other two quarterfinals quickly although they were kind of fairly routine by comparison the really routine one was Chelsea 7 Port Vale 0 nice and easy for Chelsea it was very very comfy I just want a moment for Port Vale fans because for them it was huge being there like goodness knows the first time they've been in there in decades and I wish they could have enjoyed their afternoon a bit more obviously of course once Chelsea got in front, it was only going to go, it was only going to go one way just with the depth of attacking talent they have.

48:01The thing with Chelsea is so strange. You never quite know what you're going to get from them in terms of configuration of attackers, who's going to be playing. I will say it's quite strange. It feels that the people that are making the loudest noises and agitating for moves within the Chelsea squad are the ones who necessarily I would expect to be in the shop window. Like, how do I say this charitably? There are players in the Chelsea centre midfield agitating for moves that I think that other players in that midfield would be best placed for, if I may say that. But yeah, a great victory for Chelsea.

48:37Port Vale, a real shame for them. Cole Palmer, bless him, his celebration was so funny because he hits it and it's actually going wide before it gets deflected in. And he did not make a meal out of it. And I thought, you know what, props for that because he didn't rub it in. respect to Chelsea for being like really just like ruthless in this game because quite often you see games where teams with a big reputation with more resources don't really turn it on and actually I feel if there's any compliment that Port Vale got they got the full effect it wasn't like Chelsea were showboating patronising they went in like with real intent and seriousness and they've had a bit of like conversation on the pitch a bit of chatter so they were locked in for this so yeah I respect them for that but yeah Port Vale

49:17Ryan Hunn: Port Vale got the piss taker out of them less by Chelsea in the 7-0 win than Arsenal did against Man City in the Carabao Cup final a couple of weeks ago when there was no one doing kick-ups. Or maybe, arguably like Liverpool did. It's funny because you refer to that quarterfinal, if we get to that now, if we segue, you refer to that as a routine game, but that wasn't at all... It was a routine result. It wasn't a routine game. Yeah, funny. Strange thing, right? Oh, it became one? Yeah, right. 0-0 until 35 minutes. Liverpool giving a really good account of themselves. Obviously, it ends up 4-0.

49:49the capitulation the game was over by 57 arguably it was over by 50 and the speed at which a game that felt fairly even well city i think had a better had a better quality of look i think marginally early on although liverpool acquitted themselves very well this game was over um from liverpool point of view disturbingly fast like i was surprised by how quickly and made liverpool fans or not I think one of their writers I think Andrew Beasley wrote a great piece about Liverpool's fragility when they go behind but I thought you look at City here and you know O 'Reilly again outstanding just unbelievable player and Semenyo has been incredible in the combinations this is the birth of the next like not I think it's great is a bit strong this is the birth of the next very good Man City team I think yeah it was the fact that we can call it routine I think was probably like the most concerning thing for Liverpool in that sense I think there is something about Man City when they do reach like start to get to like the latter stages of competitions where they can really just turn it on in a way that even though they've been inconsistent in the league and stuff I feel like the way they turn up in like those kind of cup competitions is almost unrivaled in a sense.

51:05I do think I was a little bit concerned I've been concerned for Liverpool like over the entire season but there was something Van Dijk said in the post-match uh his post-match interview where he kind of hinted that they maybe gave up a little bit which i think is that was like i think was really worrying because i think more so it's usually us as kind of supporters who are talking about the emotional aspect of the game and you'll usually hear players talk about it on a lot more of a tactical sense if they're talking about like the individual matchups in the game and whatnot but to hear him speak kind of so openly like that was i think quite concerning if i was a liverpool fan i'd be a bit little bit concerned about that especially considering how huge a game that was and what a chance like the FA Cup what an energy the FA Cup would have brought to them as a club so I was a little bit disappointed for them um in that sense but I think as as disappointed as that was I think City were um fantastic and that yeah that Doku Haaland um Semenyo front three is is terrifying like when they're it doesn't at all the weird thing about it though there's one weird thing about that front three and we throw Cherki in as well as a playmaker.

52:08Pep for so long resisting the temptation to go out and get out and out wingers, where from the Leroy Sané era, we're like, but that's what works. And Raheem Sterling, you like wingers. Why are you denying this to yourself? And now he's gone out and got three of the most devastating attackers you could find in Europe. Like to have all three of Doku, Cherki and Semenyo, and some might say, look, anyone can make that work. Okay. You still have to give them the attacking looks to knot it all together. And I think Cherky tactically, he's not the easiest to integrate in a truly elite team because his talents as a soloist ironically allow you to be isolated.

52:44Because if you just kind of put him in a box and you stop him making combinations, then you're fine. But what he did so well was getting his combinations. And I think what City did so well, the way they get him the ball, the way they get him a quality of ball, that it's on a plate that he makes those assists. I mean, if you look at the point, I think it was the third goal. they lose the ball actually there it's actually not the greatest pass in bernardo silva and docker is a bit frustrated it goes out of play and then they just get the bear trap on them the moment oh my god that the way they assemble like i paused actually i paused the the game just before turkey plays the pass there's a lot of livable players in that sector of the pitch but in a sense they're all they might as well be like they might as well the other corner flag for for as close they were literally like two seconds behind City in every phase of that play.

53:32It was just... The speed that City elevated after the second goal was just... was frightening.

53:40Ryan Hunn: There are games where you go and make a brew and you come back and it's like, whoa, what's happened? Why is... This is a vast... This game state should not be this different in the space that it takes to make a cup of tea. And this felt like one of those games where all of a sudden it was just... two goals, and then Liverpool were just done. I know that, like what you're saying as well, it was done after 57 minutes or what have you. But I think it just felt like it was done at half-time. And that was weird because I think that Liverpool ended up having their best period towards the later stages of the game.

54:18Ryan Hunn: But by then, the game's well and truly done. You know, Mo Salah having his penalty saved, I think it's just, that's such a 4-0 penalty. he looked do you know what my goodness this this is one of those ones where you look at this game and go like this felt like time to go like his you know his his move has been announced all the rest of it and it was interesting because this was really a game of the veterans you have like Salah on one side Bernardo Silva the stat they had this guy's only missed nine games through injury in 10 seasons at City which is ridiculous yeah it's wild right like do you have an incredible amount of muscle memory in the City team in the form of Bernardo Silva when you look at like Liverpool I looked at this team and it just looked so threadbare like this formation yes they were fine in the beginning the opening stages but the degree to which the centre midfielders were exposed and look I say this is like a Curtis Jones truther Jones Gravenberg did not look comfortable at any point there's a moment when Jones plays a square pass like into a really dangerous area for the counter and I just thought goodness me like this does not look like there's real chemistry here.

55:21Witt's still struggling to find, I think, his place in all this. And he's going to get absolutely coated for this. And I really sympathise because I thought he was behind some of their best work early on. And you saw what he did against a very good Switzerland team just a couple of days ago. This is like an elite player, but he's going to get coated because of the price tag. But I just feel like the structural problems with Liverpool, the departure of Mo Salah actually comes at a really good time because it allows them to rebuild in the summer, to go back to the training ground and work on the the Viers Eketike Isak combinations which are going to be the thing that brings them out of this

55:56Ryan Hunn: I think they need quite a lot of surgery on that squad oh I agree I agree they need genuine width and experienced width because I think they can't be looking to Rio and Gamora already to be a consistent like contributor to the squad and he's probably apart from I mean I don't even really think like Fede Chiesa is a no is a natural wide player anymore either he's the only real like Ngomou feels like the only maybe maybe him and Frimpong although Frimpong's not been getting a regular starting spot I think he I think he would probably I don't know I think if you look at that squad and the signings that they made in the summer and what they've ended up having to like how they've ended up playing or having to play I think they thought maybe that that squad was better than it was based on last season and I think they underestimated how important I don't think they underestimated how important Diogo Jota was as a player and obviously the early part of the season was so difficult for them I think to get out of that headspace of what they went through in the summer but Luis Diaz if you've seen what he's gone into at Bayern they just never got a player in there that could replace the things that he gave Liverpool People don't like to hear this but Anfield it's a different it's a different thing to going it's a bit like you know Kyrkos going to Anfield it's like Grealish going to the Etihad and what's expected of you and I say when I say going to the Etihad I think with Kevin De Bruyne in training all the time like that's the level now it's 9 out of 10 every week which is what De Bruyne basically was for like years on end right and I think Kyrkos as brilliant as he was at Bournemouth the scrutiny you're going to get and it's the thing that you said Nif about Arsenal like getting everyone's best look it's different you're Bournemouth you're getting you're getting like brilliant opposition every week but Liverpool you're getting not only that you're getting oh I've always wanted to put one over Liverpool and this guy happens to be the left back for Liverpool fine I'll go at him here's what's here I'll deal with that and I think he's got all of that and I think he's struggled to adjust and I think sometimes watching him there's times where he's not sure whether to jump out and go like full buccaneer and he won't get away with that for Liverpool or be a pure defender and he's often caught between psychologically he is a very good defender but it's a mental thing with him as in you're making him defend purely sometimes which is not his game but he can't bomb on like frimpong did for leverkusen because also you know frimpong as fine a player as he is he played in a team that had opponents that were scared of him so structured as well and also you had you had teams that were afraid of leverkusen because they were like they're gonna score late we're gonna sit back we're gonna do this and they were so structured and now and i'm not saying it's crying out for Xabi Alonso but after a game like this I can understand why the noise and the desire to get Xabi Alonso in is going to be greater having said all of that he cannot coach this squad as it currently is to the highest the Liverpool fans want he cannot do that yeah and also the thing we talked about is we talked about it earlier in the season is how quick the order goes and it happened with City how much of a shell of a side compared to where they are now they looked earlier on in the season now I know that they were calling pepper board fraud they were calling I know.

59:08Ryan Hunn: But Pep has gone through serious, like Pep has gone through serious phases in the last two seasons of looking genuinely like he needs a break. What City deserve a lot of credit for, you know, obvious stuff aside, is that they've managed to, they've put the aura back. Yes. That takes a lot, that takes a lot to rebuild, especially in a season. And I think that Liverpool can do it because they're Liverpool, right? Liverpool is... you know, the name in itself is, is quite intimidating for a lot of people playing them. And I think if they do stick with Schlott next season, which I, I don't think they will now.

59:50Ryan Hunn: No, I don't. It feels like it's going towards, I'm going to leave. We had a great two years. We won the league, but it's probably time. And then Jabby Alonso will come in with probably some defensive and midfield. The shopping list is going to be interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the shopping list is... And I think they're going to have to maybe flip one or two surprise players that may not feel like they should in order to generate a little more to get the people that they need. Gamavika, Gamavika.

1:00:26Ryan Hunn: I'm only half joking. Yeah, but I don't hate that. I'm just not I'm just I think I think what they I think they struggled last season though the problem that they had last season with their transfer policy was that they didn't really sign anyone of any seniority from the Premier League which is something they've done unbelievably well over the last decade Mark Gay that's the thing Mark Gay if you look at Mark Gay and Antoine Semenya going to City it's instant just like no like bedding in period they know what's going on I think with Liverpool they need a midfielder from the Premier League they need a centre midfielder who has played in the Premier League already who's just going to go and switch you know I think there might be a bit of a bidding war for between Manchester United and Liverpool for Elliot Anderson oh yes God that's a look Anderson that is an incredible evolution for Anderson but it's also a sign that you can get quality within the league I think there's a lot of talk about like going abroad for all this but he in particular would just be incredible.

1:01:33I think he would solve so many problems because I know they won the league, it sounds strange to say this, but they've kind of been a bit makeshift in midfield for a while, actually. In my opinion, when I look at a centre mid that really controls games, and some will say to me, look, but Schlott's been really good at managing games and faces. I get that, don't get me wrong. I feel like if I'm looking at Liverpool and because I judge them such high standard, I want to see a centre midfield of PSG quality. Dral Neves Vitinha Fabien Ruiz that's what I I expect to see in a Liverpool midfield and when I look at them I don't I haven't seen that consistently I've just seen gaps and cameos and I've seen phases where it's good but I've never seen a midfield that's like bankable from them for a while

1:02:17Ryan Hunn: I think they need a pivot as well like someone just to build like have two of the midfielders to play it off of course in their defence you see why they went so hard after Caicedo this was the thing that was meant to be the piece you know they knew exactly I wonder if they go for Wharton actually because I wonder if he ah the thing with Wharton as much as I love him I feel like that is such a big I know some might say oh look but like but look at Anderson but Anderson had the England games right you've seen it you've seen proof of concept Wharton is someone who you know Crystal Palace have to counterpunch so much right Wharton at least for England has had a chance to be more expansive a ball dominant team but Wharton has been so often like on the defensive end that when you're like expecting to be the front foot against like deep lying teams I'm not saying he can't do it I think he's amazing I'm just saying that you're buying him untested and I wouldn't wish that on a midfield I think he's a great player if he gets signed good luck to him it's almost like you've had so much of this already you've seen what it is for a whole year of signings that come in that aren't bedded in that aren't ready that aren't like ready to just make the transition and I worry just with Wharton it'll be another sort of six months of transition but I hope I'm wrong because I love him as a player.

1:03:30Yeah, I do feel for Liverpool a little bit in terms of as we were talking about before especially with like Diego Drosser I definitely feel with these things sometimes because football is such an emotional sport that context can get lost quite quickly so although people recognise it I think most people recognise the huge impact that would have at the time I think as the season goes on and Liverpool start to lose games slowly like that kind of context ebbs away as like the emotional reaction to defeat to take over. Because I can imagine, I think we've seen so many of the players come out and talk about how difficult it's been.

1:04:02Like Andy Robertson has spoken about that even after like the Scotland game. So I do feel for them a lot in that sense. I also do feel a little bit that something Pep actually did really well, but I feel like they've almost, I think when you look at Pep and the signings he's made in the past few years, he's almost kind of stopped trying to bend the Premier League to his will and he's kind of just taken it as it is. He's recognised as a real physical element to the league that's not going anywhere. And he's just going to accommodate to adapt to that rather than push back against it. Obviously, we talk about Gehi and Semenyo.

1:04:34And obviously, these fantastic technical players as well, but of course, physically robust to and Premier League experience. And when I looked at some of those Liverpool sign-ins, I was like, I don't think you can get away with it necessarily in the way that they may be expected they would be. And sometimes you look at that Sartre 11 and it looks a little frail at times, I say. Interesting. And I don't think, and I think with just the level of competition in the Premier League now, I think that can get found out quite quickly. So I'm interested to see like in the summer if they do address that.

1:05:08I know they've had issues with, I guess some of the issues go beyond Slott himself with the transfers and whatnot. But yeah, I do think they've almost been a bit idealistic in terms of how they've approached their transfers over the past year or so. do you know what we're thinking

1:05:22Ryan Hunn: Pep's like the other jazz musicians that looked at Herbie Hancock and were like I'm not getting a synthesizer no no it's so funny he's getting synths for and then two years later Pep's just like

1:05:36that's so funny we should do a podcast because I had a music take of my own actually funnily enough that's much better than mine this is like when you know when Kendrick put out the damn album in 2017 and it was just like I'm just going to write actual bops straightforward actual bops you know okay you know what i know that i can do the pimp a butterfly and whatever and like do the exquisite jazz but sorry this was literally my reference but when he put out damn it was like oh i can vibe with this these are uncomplicated bangers let's get by kendrick standards right still quite intricate but still and i feel like you're right with pep i love this observation of i'm just going to ride the wave which also makes me feel like it's kind of the end of Pep's arc at City because when Pep starts riding the wave, when he stops coming with new ideas, then you're like, oh, this guy is just going to go off into the sunset.

1:06:25And it's actually a very good time for him to do that. And whoever takes over at City, I think, has got a really good run at the next few years because O 'Reilly is right there. And O 'Reilly is doing things that frankly, terrify me.

1:06:40Ryan Hunn: He looked really good in this game, actually there were a couple of moments where I was like the guy defended Van Dijk at one end in the next in the next play phase of play he's in the other box what on earth have they been yeah I don't like it I don't like it lads shall we shall we is there anything else we want to touch the FA Cup is done we've done the FA Cup it's done it's done we've got the semi-finals the semi well it's not the FA Cup's not done but the semi the quarterfinals are done the semi-finals are set to touch on something that Neith said earlier I think the FA Cup for the last few years now has been amazing and it's and it's really i think it's delivered again already this season it's been super enjoyable even obviously saturday though saturday for me wasn't on top of my list of things i would have loved to have happened but i've enjoyed every round so far it's been great i've loved it i just you know whoever wins i just hope for that same spirit i hope for close games in all of it and i just hope whoever wins to be like fully extended all the way because I know that like obviously the disaster outcome was kind of the like the Man City Watford where you were like by the end of it Watford weren't necessarily even enjoying the day out anymore and it was a sour taste I think but yeah if everyone quit themselves then I've got my favourites I won't name them because there's a couple of teams I would rather see win than others but all in all yeah just a great tournament so far We're going to let Neif go Neif thanks for coming on man I appreciate it no thank you for having me hopefully you'll be back once we're in the final yes or the middle around your neck but no thanks for having me guys of course as you know we're going to just call Neif and he's going to podcast through the entire semi-final exactly before you go where should they what should they read yeah what should they check out yeah yeah yeah please do I'm at an afiok EKP on Instagram and Blue Sky.

1:08:39And yeah, my book where we come from, Rap Home and Hope in Modern Britain is out now in paperback and hardback. It's like a social history of British rap and wider black British music from the 60s to present day. So if you're into that kind of thing, please do pick it up. And as well as some of the football long reads, I did one in my good friend, Callum Jacobs, does a book called A New Formation and I wrote a long read in there, which I really loved.

1:09:00Ryan Hunn: So I've got both of those behind me. Nice. We're going to link, we'll link those in the show notes. and definitely go and buy Niamh's book because he's here and he can't tell us not to say this but it is incredible definitely go and buy it thanks guys I appreciate it nice one man great to chat to you thanks you too see ya take care hi friends Grace from the Working Hard podcast here when you're stretching every dollar a little goes a long way and Walmart Business is here to help they make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax-exempt purchasing for eligible organisations.

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1:09:41Ryan Hunn: your impact can be bigger. Visit business.walmart.com to get started. Oh man, what a joy. He's one of the greats, man. One of the goats. Absolutely, everyone should. Now he's gone. I can tell you 100%, you should absolutely go and get his book. And Callum's book. Great writers and curators, both of them. Two of the best that we've got. I say we, meaning the UK, but I think actually two of the best, culture writers anywhere very often we limit things to like oh my god out of the UK no like do the best culture writers anyway so check out their work just a couple of good dudes yeah absolutely alright man should we wrap up some other stuff quickly because it wasn't just the men's FA Cup this weekend it was also the women's FA Cup and a bad weekend for Arsenal all round going out of both FA Cups they went out 2-0 to Brighton on Sunday great result for Brighton massive result for Brighton Arsenal will be very disappointed with this because they should have got something from the game but Brighton knocking the current European champions out that's got one of the biggest results they've had in maybe their history the other results Chelsea going through against Spurs 2-1 we're currently recording this during Manchester City's sorry Birmingham against Manchester City Manchester City currently winning that game and Liverpool went through against Charlton after extra time so that was the women's FA Cup while we're on women's tournaments women's Frauenbocke in Germany Wolfsburg advancing against Carl Zeissiena on penalties 5-4 after 0-0 draw scraped through yes scraping very much so we're going to swerve most of the other stuff but just quickly did you watch Inter Roma by any chance I did not catch this live no didn't catch it wild game 5-2 Inter against Roma we're recording this ahead of the Napoli-Milan game tonight.

1:11:37Ryan Hunn: Napoli have the chance to go above Milan in the table and close the gap to Inter on the top. In La Liga, Barcelona have opened up a seven-point lead at the top following their 2-1 win away at Atleti, which was a massive result actually. Atleti played the whole of the second half down to 10 men after Nico Gonzalez got sent off. It was a late, slightly fortuitous Lewandowski winner yes didn't know much about at the time but marcus rafford with a really good equalizer as well after atleti got ahead really really good and there was an amazing laminia mile moment in this where he megged someone on the right hand side and then plays this outside of the foot pass around through the back line oh to find the location yeah unreal a ton of shit all game that guy is always is up for it though.

1:12:28That's the thing. Like, Namin Yamaal, like, he's, that man doesn't, he doesn't dock a confrontation. But yeah, really, really impressive from Barcelona at a time when Real Madrid, same week that Real Madrid lose, 2-1 to Mallorca. Great result for Mallorca, obviously. But Madrid just not at the races. I saw Kian Sobani's post-match on that, that debrief, and just seemed quite despondent about the lack of intensity from this team. This Madrid team is just no real sense of what they're going to produce week on week. This is the thing. Funny enough, it's why they were so tough for City to play in the Champions League because you just don't know what Madrid you're going to get from week to week.

1:13:07Ryan Hunn: They're a different thing in the Champions League. I know it's a big old cliche but they just are as well. I think this result, well this result is the biggest result in La Liga this weekend because the knock-on effects that it's had down the bottom are quite seismic because Mallorca climbed out of the relegation zone. Sevilla and Elche both lost on the weekend. Sevilla lost to Oviedo who only won their fifth game of the season and while it's still a long shot if Sevilla get dragged into that relegate well they're only two points out of the relegation zone eight games to play but Oviedo have closed the gap to Sevilla to seven points which is not unthinkable no no not at all not at all anything you want to shout out in the Bundesliga?

1:13:54maybe Leverkusen's huge run over Wolfsburg 6-3 massive yeah really really unloading there and also like Bayern beating Freiburg 3-2 away after Freiburg were 2-0 up actually coming very late Freiburg always do this Lennart Carr with the main character energy taking off his shirt after the tap in but he did get a late winner and he is a teenager so you know let the boy live Bayern just with a hundredth goal in the league now and without Harry Kane they've got 128 and they are looking robust they're looking resilient and yeah they're feeling it so yeah really a great win probably the tie of the round I would say

1:14:39Ryan Hunn: No one in the bottom half won on the weekend which was wild Goodness it's wild when it happens yeah yeah yeah Sorry I suppose technically Mainz do you remember that time in the Burnside where it was like not a single home team won like they all lost Yeah yeah yeah and it went for two match days do you remember it was weird it went for two match days yeah sorry Mainz won actually but three straight wins from Mainz now who are out of the bottom half they're into the top half and just us fisherman is he going to is he pushing for coach of the year he's going to nick it off company he's saying there's a chance yeah but like man like they're ninth it's incredible it's absolutely wild I watched Union San Paoli on Sunday as well that was ended up one all with Union it's a question where St.

1:15:24Paul is it's not so much the resilience you doubt it's like where are the wins coming from

1:15:29Ryan Hunn: do you know what though for St. Paul point away Union's fine they pick up points in those games for the rest of the season they're going to be they're going to be alright in Liga quite a big weekend because PSG beating Salus and Lille beating Lons and the gap is up to four points now and PSG have a game in hand there's also the big result is Monaco beating Marseille 2-1. Balogon with a lovely goal to go ahead there. But yeah, elsewhere. Actually, do you know, something I didn't talk about enough when I was talking with Neif and yourself about that, the Southampton result, fantastic win. It was just on Max Dahmer's decision-making, which I thought was incredible.

1:16:12And I don't think it's the last time in this podcast I'll mention it. But I just love the choices that he made as a young winger who wasn't always bombing to the byline. And it's really exciting for, you know, for Arsenal fans looking for optimism after a difficult result, I would say that guy in terms of a football brain is so advanced and I just can't wait to watch him over the next few years. As a neutral, as a United fan in this future, I had no skin in the game but seeing him starting the game but also perform as he did and I thought he was Arsenal's best player. By a distance.

1:16:46Ryan Hunn: Which is incredible considering the quality they had in that field. Yeah. Yeah. Alright man, And should we leave it there for today? Get this podcast out. And then we're back in Champions League mode. We are. I'm hyped. I'm hyped for it, man. I'm hyped. I have to admit, I'm a little bit nervous about this sporting game. That's healthy. That's healthy, actually. Look, if there's anything we've learned about them, it's like complacency against them. Any part of the fan base is not a good look. So, yeah. I was nervous the last time Arsenal played sporting, though, and that went okay. Yeah. So. Good.

1:17:22Ryan Hunn: respect for the occasion yeah for sure we'll touch on well we'll do all of the Champions League on Thursday and we'll do that a bumper episode of the First Legs and yeah don't forget if you are listening to us on the free feed and you want to get every Stadio episode ad free and in full go to patreon.com forward slash Stadio but we're going to leave it there for today until Thursday don't forget to check the Stadio Archos playlist on Spotify and speaking of which we're playing out on Know Yourself by Creation Rebel anything you would like to add Mooseok Wonga? Nothing further Alright everyone much love have a great week we'll be back with you on Thursday See you then Some of them say they're my raster Some of them say they're my night DJ Ask them about their religion And they don't know Some of them praise up your lion Say they won't go to Zion But only the righteous one Shall enter there Shall enter there So read the book by bread Read the book of righteousness Read the book, child and children And you will learn

1:18:51Ooh, la la la

1:18:59Ooh, la, la, la

1:19:20Ryan Hunn: Somebody in my fight gets the calling Them are really falling The harm of the land Sown by the father's end Some of them are wearing out your collar Them tinker really flies Got to know your mind What you doing this time You doing this time So read the book, my brethren Read the book of righteousness Read the book, Jaida Tindran, yeah And you will learn

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