The Biggest Premier League weekend of the season so far?

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1:38Musa Okwonga: Hello and welcome back to the Stadio Podcast. I'm Issa Kwonga. I'm Ryan Hun. Ryan, how are you doing? I'm doing all right, thanks, man. I'm doing all right.

1:45Ryan Hunn: How are you doing? Very well, indeed. What weekend for the Premier League in particular, which is where our focus is going to be today. But before we get into it, we hope everyone's staying safe and well, wherever you are. Yes. We do have a couple of bits of admin. The merch is live. It is. New merch drop. Link in the podcast description. And go and check it out. It's available to pre-order for the next, I think it's three, just under three weeks. And then it will all be printed and sent out. There is a new Spiritually Onside t-shirt and sweatshirt design. There's a Spiritually Onside cap. There's a Stadio 26 t-shirt, which takes influence from a classic.

2:28Ryan Hunn: and there's an orange logo type jumbo shopper tote bag with a toggle as well available in three colours so go order your merch if you want some Stadio merch it's available for the next few weeks and then it will be printed and shipped shipped worldwide so don't worry about that please make sure you check the size guide of each garment to ensure that you get something that is just right for you and if you're listening to this on the free feed and you want to take advantage of our spring Patreon push, March is our Patreon push. If you go to patreon.com forward slash stadio, you get 30 % off your first month and if you wanted to sign up as a stadio social club member you also will get a code that will give you 15 % off the merch.

3:22There you go, there's all the admin. yes merch looks incredible I gotta say I'm biased shout out to Dr. Me on the design

3:28Musa Okwonga: absolutely beautiful yeah beautiful work

3:30Ryan Hunn: shows this week due to some travel and logistics we're going to do a very very quick Wednesday show which will be about the Champions League from Tuesday night and also a game that I'll be at and then there will be a another show on Friday about the rest of the Champions League and just more more general stuff from the week as well so So, yeah, unfortunately we can't do Thursday, so we're going to space them this week. But yeah, if you're going to hear all about the Champions League and other bits and bobs, patreon.com forward slash stadio. And if you haven't listened to it yet, go back and listen to our episode with Scroobius Pip from last week on the Patreon.

4:12It was a great chat, that. What a lovely guy. Great man. Great chat with a great man. Amazing human.

4:16Ryan Hunn: All right, but today our focus is going to be on the Premier League because up and down the table, this felt like the biggest weekend of the season so far. Lots of narrative. Lots of very, very key results. Yes. History being made. Yes. In spectacular fashion. And then we will maybe shout out a couple of other bits, including a wonder goal from Ardegula.

4:41Musa Okwonga: Oh my God, that.

4:43Ryan Hunn: So let's get into it. But there is, of course, only one place to begin. Yeah.

4:56Musa Okwonga: you know weirdly enough it could be by leverkusen by munich because they got two red cards where is it where do we begin i think it might actually be buying

5:08Ryan Hunn: it could be in the leverkusen it's so ridiculous it's so ridiculous but that i think leverkusen

5:14Musa Okwonga: Bayern Munich won all and two red cars Nicholas Jackson and Diaz I mean my god Wild Diaz getting second red second yellow for a dive but Leverkusen couldn't get it done Yep

5:28Ryan Hunn: We're going to have to go to the Premier League Yes Because this felt like a really really seismic weekend Yep And should we start with Arsenal against Everton We have to We have to What was your thoughts as a neutral David Moyes loves this

5:44Musa Okwonga: David Moy loves bring a team to a title chaser and absolutely going at it so a lot of United fans will still be traumatised by the 4-0 draw United 4-2 up and then Moyes' Everton came back to 4-2 and that basically was seen as symbolic in taking the title away from United it was such a psychological blow and Moyes what he's doing with Everton this year we mentioned before the podcast started actually you and I we're talking about their incredible defensive record but it's not just that he's built a really strong base of creativity they started the day with the third best defensive record

6:18Ryan Hunn: in the Premier League behind Arsenal Manchester City only

6:21Musa Okwonga: right so you've got and then on top of that you've got like multiple playmakers they're going to hurt you at any point they break very well and the way they started this game or frankly the way they sustained their start of this game

6:31Ryan Hunn: I thought they were brilliant throughout

6:33Musa Okwonga: brilliant brilliant brilliant and this was what I love about this is you know for all the hyper in the Premier League this is this is an occasion that matched the hype and I think exceeded it because they threw every single haymaker and all the talk about Arsenal squad depth this really was a reshuffling of the pack ironically enough the player that changed the game wasn't the player they they bought but I think that speaks to the quality the range of tools Arsenal have and they needed all of those tools to break down a brilliant Eventon team McNeil and Di O 'Leon Raya got himself in trouble then got himself out of trouble.

7:11Musa Okwonga: Well, Calafiori actually made the save there. When I first saw this, I thought it was a Raya save. And then I saw the way he puts up his foot. It's absolutely incredible.

7:20Ryan Hunn: I know Everton lost 2-0. David Moyes said after the game, I don't think we deserve that. And I think he's kind of right. I can't fully believe Arsenal kept a clean sheet. No, I can't. The quality of work Everton looked at it. Because I think Everton created better opportunities up until Arsenal scored. you know the XG will be heavily weighted in Arsenal's favour but I think the Jokeres one is accounts for 0.99 of that right and the Max Daumann one accounts for 0.91 I think Arsenal played pretty well I think Everton just defended really really well they did they also counted very well they had their some good moments of the game but Arsenal had a load of the ball were very smart with it I thought kept patient didn't make any silly not a lot of silly decisions attacking wise should have had a penalty and I was quick to say that I don't think the one in midweek was a penalty against Leverkusen and I still don't think it was really a penalty it was very very soft I think this one on Havertz was 100 % a penalty and I can't believe it didn't get given

8:30Musa Okwonga: Right Right. Andrew Mangan actually wrote an interesting thing on AskBlog. He said, it's so funny because if you hadn't had Havertz denied the penalty, you wouldn't have had the Dalman moment. And actually, I think this game, this result for Arsenal, look, it's just three points, but I think it's something else. I think it's - I agree. What it does in terms of the emotional release, Max Dalman doing what he did gives Arsenal a new story that is bigger than Arsenal's title race for the casual viewer. And I think that's hugely important in terms of like shifting a narrative. This isn't just, the Max Diamond goal is so brilliant and what he means as a young talent, a young English talent, is so exciting that people that don't want to be excited about Arsenal particularly can be excited about this, should be excited about this because it makes them excited for the future of English football.

9:19Musa Okwonga: Like if you think of this generation of England players as incredible as it is and they have a Max Diamond figure, like making a late look, I don't think he'll go to the World Cup. But the fact that it even is a conversation... No, no, no, no, right, right. No, I don't think so. But the fact that it's not an outrageous thing to look at this guy and be like, oh, is there a spot for a dribbler just to come along and whatever. It's not a ridiculous thing. Like it's not a... Only because there are so many players that are really good who've proved themselves in the Tuchel, yes. But this guy has the potential to be an England star and we'll get onto Darwin in a bit before we swerve from Everton for years to come.

9:56Musa Okwonga: And I think this goal that he scored it's not bigger than the result but in its own way it's as big as the result in its own way in a different category

10:06Ryan Hunn: He's literally the youngest goal scorer in Premier League history that's huge If you think about the last couple of weeks it's been interesting right because he has come back from an injury in his first breakthrough season it shows you how good he is because Mikel Arteta does not like throwing people in too much too soon Not at all There have been a couple of moments where he's come on he won the penalty against Leeds

10:29Musa Okwonga: yes you know so

10:31Ryan Hunn: ticked a little box there was decisive in a game where he came on and he got a run out had an injury kept him out for a little while it's quite a tricky balance to know when to put young players in and pull them out again but also to give them minutes and I think what what you've seen here was his inclusion against Mansfield was big because that's a tough game he was unbelievable Tough game on a tough pitch and he was one of the best performers on the pitch. Coated them, yeah. This though, you're chasing the game. You have the opportunity to turn to someone who you've gone to many, many times before and someone like Gabriel Jesus or you go to Max Dowman and you move Pakayo Saka to accommodate him.

11:15Musa Okwonga: Inside, inside.

11:16Ryan Hunn: And yet instantly he changes the game. It would have been very, very tempting or it must have been very tempting for Max Dowman to just keep going at Mikhelenko. or just keep dribbling. And actually, a couple of times, you just stood him up, played a simple pass and waited for the moments.

11:34Musa Okwonga: The last Arsenal player that I saw do that, well, not the last one because Saka's come in, but I remember Oxlade-Chamberlain doing that in his first Champions League appearance. And I was like, oh my God, this guy has come in and is like just locked in. And he was young. And this is, you know, bless him, Oxlade-Chamberlain, the injuries just did for him at his peak. but Oxlade-Chamberlain's use of the ball, it wasn't just the technical ability, it was the understanding of the game. To come into a match with that as well, this isn't just a normal, this is Everton, it's at home, there's anxiety, Arsenal have played some great football but Everton have been really good too.

12:08Musa Okwonga: To come into a game like that and be a playmaker, a patient playmaker, and it says everything for him, the moment they opened the game up wasn't a dribble. No. It's an incredible,

12:20Ryan Hunn: incredible ball to the far post. It's a great ball and it's one of those I think the yeah I understand why Jordan Pitford's had a bit of criticism about it but I think he's actually just been done by the fly he hangs it up there

12:32Musa Okwonga: you know like you ever watch cricket when you have like someone who bowls narrowly outside the off stump and the batsman swings at it because it's right there it's like it's right there it's unbelievable it's like it's such a good ball and it's right in that zone and how many times have you seen City do that hit the diagonal it cuts back across and it's a tap and Jokor Eshpilesson was right there for it after Hincapier lays it across with some part of his body.

12:59Musa Okwonga: That's 1-0. And Everton have been outstanding throughout. And then the goal that Dalman scores to clinch it, let's just talk about that, I think, in a bit more detail because Pickford's up for the corner, which I think was the right decision because you've got to chase it. What else are you going to do, right? And when it breaks the Dalman, I love this. There's a special subsection of players heading the ball in the bounce, like the bounce dribble. the head of dribble very difficult a lot of people wait for that to drop but if you're feeling it you'll nod it ahead nods it ahead it's still under control and I want to sort of Gsb Hall will never give us the interview but I want to know what dummy he threw because he throws a hell of a it's a very it's a very Mesut Ozil type change direction it is yeah Ludigratz it's very Ozil do you know what the movements aren't too dissimilar it's a very Ozil dribble and the way he just cuts stands him up and then I just love it he's scanning he's on the ball running through and he's still looking for the options he's looking for the chasing man Martinelli is playing blocker but he's still looking for like the option and for the chasing player and he's fast with and without the ball this is the thing it's an amazing shot

14:04Ryan Hunn: I think it's actually the image that you on the piece that you mentioned on Arseblog where you can see kind of four Arsenal players behind him Jokeres is running but kind of like being like Henkakio is starting to put his arms out Declan Rice is brilliant to look into his right, almost laughing and Max Downman's bearing down on goal. It's brilliant. The reason I love this so much for Arsenal is the way it just takes a lot of pressure off.

14:36Musa Okwonga: Because it's a whole new thing to be excited about. Before it was like, oh, the title race. And now it's like, oh, yeah, the title race. But also look at this brilliant young player coming through who's super exciting. And that just brings a lightness to the whole thing. It helps everyone raise their game. like you know Arteta said that in training he's doing incredible things against established defenders yeah and these I mean I feel like I feel like the emergence of this player comes at the right time and again what a spectacular showing completes 12 out of 13 passes like it's the small things it's the decisions it's not just the kind of like I would take up whoever he weighs up which dribbles he's going to make there's a lot of maturity in this game I want to just quickly say impressive Arsenal's game you look at Eze as well quietly very impressive as the 10

15:20Ryan Hunn: I thought he was really good that is

15:23Musa Okwonga: what Arteta is looking for

15:24Ryan Hunn: well I think that there's so I remember last time I was on Arsblog with Andrew I said you know I was like look I think Arteta is going to have to stumble on something there's going to be something that one more configuration that's going to work or be the thing that acts as a catalyst to get Arsenal over the line because they were getting a bit stodgy again no one has ever doubted max down's ability or potential but to have a moment like this at this specific moment of the season i know a lot of people are comparing it to the reese nelson bournemouth moment i think it's different it's different it's different it's different it's a literal historic moment in premier league but i think just an actual cathartic emotional moment in football like i was properly i was properly emotional it was it was amazing dude like it was a fan of any club you just look at it like this is yeah this is cool apart from Everton but even I think Everton fans were a bit like yeah fair play do you know what I mean because this was that was actually pretty sick

16:21Musa Okwonga: well because the Rooney thing like it's compared to the Rooney moment of like Rooney announcing himself but I think this is the first time a lot of people have paid attention to Max Deltman outside the kind of Arsenal sphere right he hasn't played that many was it three three four Premier League games he's been involved in

16:34Ryan Hunn: yeah yeah I mean in terms of an overall performance from Arsenal I thought they were really they played some good stuff and a couple of moments I thought were quite interesting in terms of like quick free kicks corners and throw-ins speeding up the play a little more some urgency yeah urgency and I think also Mikel Arteta deserves a lot of credit because those changes were really proactive and he was also recognising the game state where he's like look we're going to be chasing the game here we don't need Zubamendi and Rice we can drive Eze deeper and he did that against Man City remember Martinelli when Eze made that pass with Martinelli for the equaliser against West City at home.

17:10Ryan Hunn: Yes, very well. Yeah, yeah. He knows that Eze can move into that deeper role and playmake. And that just gives Arsenal such an interesting configuration to play with because sometimes they have looked a bit rigid. And I get that because the defence is so good. But if you can then add, if you can then throw another potential in there that plays with the opposition, they're like, man, they have this ability to change the game up a little bit and go very creative and very attacking focused. It's kind of incredible. And then, yeah, you have the double effect of that with City dropping points at West Ham in terms of the title race.

17:50Oh, West Ham. The run they're on, what, like two defeats in nine? So good. But the point was huge for West Ham as well, right?

17:57Ryan Hunn: So this is so many results felt very consequential this weekend.

18:02Musa Okwonga: Yeah, totally. Everything, I mean, again, look, has so few games to go over the season now. And at multiple points of this game, it was like, the narrative would have been, if it had been a nil-nil draw, the narrative would have been, Arsenal bottled it. If McNeil's swerving shot goes in instead of hitting that post. Orin Dye's follow-up goes in, but I think it just caught him too soon. I think he was given offside, actually. Okay, that's interesting. But the actual, if McNeil's goal goes in and Everton hold on to 1-0, which would have been a deserved win the way they were playing, then the narrative becomes something else and then you have City who stumble against West Ham and it's so interesting because the old the city of old takes the lead and it's done Pep records this afterwards didn't he as well Pep's been quite spiky in recent interviews but I think that's fair because his point is the margins are smaller and it's Nuno we're talking about and this West Ham team are not clowns they break pretty well they're aggressive and they're hard to play through if you lose a bit of passing tempo there's one moment the west time game actually which will come into a bit where rodry plays a square pass into touch and that that had happened that had happened there was a game i can't remember it was but rodry played a pass into touch like that in another game i think it was a draw again that city had and when rodry's passing metronome is slightly off and like this is someone that completes like virtual as passes anyway when it's slightly off it means that the tempo of the team isn't right the movement isn't right and new kind of together and if you slow passing tempo down against city this city team it leaves you the real chance people don't like to hear this about you know players like erling holland and that like erling holland is an amazing footballer he is also not a mark of an baston where he initiates a huge amount of his own offense against like a certain type of defense and one of the reasons he's struggling the premier league is that premier league teams defend now exceptionally well as teams.

19:57Musa Okwonga: The one-on-one defending era, Elling Haaland is like Christian Vieri in Serie A and he is absolutely just torching teams. But now where the distances you have to run, the spaces you have to cover, like the fact that you've got centre-backs like William Saliba who have the technical ability of most strikers, right? So all of that is, it's amazing actually that Haaland scores as many goals as he does. But all these small margins and changes mean that for City, the steamroller that everyone's expecting, it doesn't exist anymore. Like City are winning a ton of games and they've been brilliant in many games but they've made hard work they've made harder work of those victories than in recent years and I think to be honest even the peak Manchester City we saw finds it tougher this year.

20:43Musa Okwonga: It just does. Yeah. It just does. Yeah I think like

20:46Ryan Hunn: for the reasons that we've mentioned with the Premier League right it's just the constant you know going up against the challenges that you have each week. But can I say this

20:55Musa Okwonga: I mean, I know a lot of people don't like this season, haven't enjoyed it. But I am, again, I was a Serie A enthusiast in that period when people weren't scoring many goals. And the reason I love that era is because you saw people figuring it out. Yes, you did see teams like, you know, 1-0, going 1-0 up after five minutes and then like keeping it that way. But you also had teams going, okay, in order to win this game, we've got to like destroy the rule book. You also had teams absolutely handing it to others. and the teams that did that had some of the most spectacular attacking that world football may ever see.

21:27Musa Okwonga: May ever see. The reason why the Max Dalman thing was so exciting for me because I was like, yes, this is the problem solving I was talking about. The reason why Arda Goulet's goal is so exciting is that that guy had been off his line. The Elche keeper had been off his line the entire match and so Arda Goulet was like, he's going to be off his line. So he knew to drive it and then what you're doing is you're saying, you are never safe. It's the Steph Curry thing. You think you're safe if you drop off, but you're not. And this is what I love about this era of football. We're seeing a period, and I firmly believe that because I'm an optimist, I think we're seeing a period of football where attackers are figuring out we have to gamble more in order to score big, win big.

22:08Musa Okwonga: I just think this league is in transition because if you look how quickly the XG situation has dropped off the cliff from last year, I think we're just in a period of correction. You've seen it. Look at Semenya. Semenya came into City and has been a catalyst for their title challenge

22:25Ryan Hunn: had a great chance in that West Ham game actually yeah

22:27Musa Okwonga: really great chance

22:28Ryan Hunn: put away in the last few weeks

22:29Musa Okwonga: yeah absolutely it's no coincidence that the most breathtaking players are like have grown up watching these complex defensive systems Laminia Mal Leonard Karl Max Dalman we can put him in that category in terms of talent I think he's in that level of talent in terms of ability and people will be like oh my god I said look just come back to this 18 months from now yeah I'm just but these players have grown up watching that and they've grown up watching oh okay this is how you unbalance players this is where you carry the ball this is where you don't carry the ball and all of them you know at different levels of like confidence I guess I think Leonard Karl's probably the most confident of all of them

23:06Ryan Hunn: dude was hitting the calm down celebration very soon

23:09Musa Okwonga: you know I mean I just think it's no coincidence that that generation of players who've grown up watching all of this are breaking through in this exciting way and I think I don't think it's a normal thing I think it's it's like when you saw like a group of MCs breaking through at the same time and they'd studied like, you know, all those like guys, all of a sudden those MCs were like singer songwriters. They weren't just rappers. They were also like writing melodies and harmonies and choruses because they'd studied that whole era and they were like, okay. And then it just maxed out everything.

23:37Musa Okwonga: I think that's coming. I mean, you look, look at what you'd look at what Laminya Mahler is doing every week right now. And with all the eyes on him. And after a stumbling start to the season, has gone to another level altogether. It's... Yeah, completely wild. I just, I'm so excited. And I think it's fair to say this, as a football fan, the next three to five years, what Max Dalman does is absolutely just, I think he's going to be, when he starts getting regular games and he gets his like, you know, reps in, there's a period in that next three to five years when he's just going to be box office almost every week.

24:16Musa Okwonga: And I can't wait for that. And I know, But whatever, dude, yeah, yeah. Where do you play him? He's a left wing, right wing, he's a 10, he's a false nine. He's a false nine with like Havertz behind him as a 10, as a defensive 10, just like screening everything. No, I think he, I think he plays centrally eventually. He's, he's an eight. He is, he's a David Silva type eight, you know, in the pep tradition. But he's, he can go anywhere. How many eights are Arsenal going to have? How many, How many tens are Arsenal going to have in there? Goodness me, like... Also, the scary thing is, who else do they have coming through?

24:55Musa Okwonga: That can't be the... It can't be the only guy they've got in the locker. So everyone's an eight. Are we doing that again? Yeah, let's bring it back. Let's bring it back. I think it's worth it. It makes time. Hi, this is Matt from P1 with Matt and Tommy, and this episode is sponsored by eBay. The cars you'll find on eBay are just different. they come with a story that you can't wait to share. Like this 1973 Dodge Charger on eBay that has been tucked away in an Arizona barn for over 40 years, only 55 ,000 miles, and somehow in great running order. It even has a rare sunroof. Suddenly, a car that was hidden for decades is being delivered in just a few clicks with eBay's secure purchase.

25:37All the paperwork handled. There are thousands of cars on eBay, from unique finds like the Pontiac Grand Prix SJ to daily drivers. and now with a new way to buy them. eBay, things people love. Tired of your car insurance rate going up even with a clean driving record? You're not alone. That's why there's Jerry, your proactive insurance assistant. Jerry compares rates side by side from over 50 top insurers and helps you switch with ease. Jerry even tracks market rates and alerts you when it's best to shop. No spam calls, no hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over$1 ,300 a year.

26:16Switch with confidence. Download the Jerry app or visit jerry.ai slash ACAST today.

26:25Ryan Hunn: All right, so do you want to do other shouts in the Premier League that were quite big and then maybe talk about, should we zoom out a little bit on Manchester City and Arsenal because it feels like this is a big week.

26:33Musa Okwonga: It's huge. It's huge. It's huge. And look, I want to give props to West Ham because they looked done. But they needed that point.

26:41Ryan Hunn: They looked absolutely done. Because if you look actually down the bottom, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th all got points this weekend. All got good points which subsequently turned out to be not amazing points because all of them got them. Leeds drew, Spurs, the Spurs result was probably the best point.

27:00Musa Okwonga: That is the biggest, that's the biggest because... Well actually West Ham as well I think

27:03Ryan Hunn: because when you play City at home getting a point, Spurs stops the rot.

27:07Musa Okwonga: I still think it's the biggest point because it stops the rot. as amazing as the West Ham result is. Yeah, but the Spurs won, especially because it came late against, you know, and everyone was like, they've got to go to Anfield. And, you know, Liverpool have cooked them in recent years.

27:23Ryan Hunn: Is it the highest scoring? So really, right?

27:27Musa Okwonga: So to stop the run, I mean, they won a record run of like, I think six straight defeats. And this would have been the seventh. And for a Charleston of all people to score it, who was Liverpool's greatest modern troll, both on and off the field, was absolutely huge. But for West Ham, a quick focus on them because they looked like they were in major, major trouble. I loved the Nuno appointment. I thought it was a really good one. I thought that it was well suited to their, the skill set players in the squad. The challenge for Nuno as well is you don't have the outfit of like a Lucas Pacitar, right?

27:56Musa Okwonga: The team that David Moyes created at West Ham, I thought was a really good version of also like, Declan Rice as well. Like this is the thing, like a lot of the West Ham conversation loses the fact that you lost two of the major creative influences these are both players Pakatar and Rice that Man City wanted to build their new team right these are substantial losses to absorb so whenever I see criticism of West Ham it needs to have that asterisk in the context of look what they've lost look who they've lost because this is I'm not making excuses I'm just giving context the way they came back in this game even more impressive I think that Bernardo Silva missed it across because I think the way he was shaping up and he also kind of admitted it I think right Yeah, he looked a bit sheepish.

28:39Musa Okwonga: Like he was talking to his teammates going, yeah, guys, that's not the... But to come back in this game as they did and show that resilience, they've shown actually in recent games, I was saying like what, like two losses and nine now in the league, super impressive. They might still make it out of there. And I think for them, the Spurs equaliser coming late as it did would have been an absolute dagger because that loss would have dragged Spurs back into with the negativity. And now they get a bit of a boost and they were really strong in the second half. I thought they were good value for a draw.

29:10Musa Okwonga: I don't think they were necessarily good value for the win but I think Liverpool, they didn't play with their food, Liverpool, but they lacked, they lacked a certain decisiveness in key positions. A couple of counterattacks where I thought, I'm not convinced they're going to make the best decision here. A couple of times when they were breaking and the space opened up, I remember thinking, hmm, I'm not sure I trust your attacking systems here. And that was new for me. I don't think... I didn't see the ruthlessness I expected from Liverpool. I think there's a large part of the fan base and maybe just also the squad that are like, just get this season.

29:49Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I agree. A wasted opportunity though, because two points dropped meant that would have taken them fourth. Because Villa were on this just horrendous run now. No winning the last four league games, three defeats in a row.

30:03Musa Okwonga: Liverpool just don't look like a fourth place side at the moment. That's the thing, they just don't look like it. But kind of who does? Who does? Who does? Weird, isn't it? Because it felt like initially... United are third, which is wild. I mean, do you want to talk about United quick before we talk about... Let's just quickly stay with Liverpool because the conversation about Schlott is concerning for him. There are people I've seen losing faith in him that had faith before. I mean, for example, even the 5-2 win over West Ham didn't have people particularly enthused. which I think was a warning sign because that would have been seen, I think most times as a kind of a palate cleanser.

30:43Musa Okwonga: Yeah. They've been uncertain for quite a while. I mean, they were truly impressive. I thought they were truly impressive against Newcastle in the 4-1, but since then people haven't been that hyped about them. And I, it's the first time I think I can say I'm a bit concerned for Arna Schlott. Yeah. I couldn't say that. I think two months ago, but now I'm looking at going, yeah, I'm a bit worried about this. Yeah.

31:03Ryan Hunn: Yeah. I mean, those kinds of, those kind of conversations going on so deep into the season when they're still potentially in a Champions League spot or definitely two points off a Champions League spot it's kind of wild right yeah I think Liverpool could have been better this season it should have been better this season even with a lot of the stuff that they've had to deal with which we've talked about a lot and the injuries and I think that if someone has said to you though like Liverpool be 21 points off

31:30Musa Okwonga: the lead with the summer business they've done if someone had said that start the season oh by the

31:35Ryan Hunn: way yeah yeah i think you'd be surprised i think it was also quite clear even with that summer business when you're like oh my god they might just like score a million goals there were still holes they hadn't filled especially midfield especially the back and so you know unless they were going to just go and play like neumeg and yeah yeah be like right we're going to score the most goals in the league but we're probably going to concede the most goals in the league as well yeah yeah yeah i think incredible if you then the neumegan reference is incredible it's it's one of the wildest things i've seen recently and i just have chaos

32:11Musa Okwonga: i kind of love it is there going to be an agents of chaos award there's a stadios for a team that you know what they might get team of the year

32:22but anyway sorry where were we where were you before uh we were talking about liverpool i think

32:26Ryan Hunn: if you lose someone like Isaac to that kind of injury they've had a lot of injuries Viet's still adjusting been a tricky season before I still think we said they make the Champions League that's a good season I agree I agree but speaking of the Champions League run yes Manchester United a third Manchester United Michael Carrick's Manchester United Football Club a third in the Premier League proper he has handled

32:54Musa Okwonga: I think he has handled things off the field even better than on the field.

32:57Ryan Hunn: Hey look, even Paul Scholes couldn't fire out a post about this. Can I say,

33:01Musa Okwonga: yeah, this is the funny thing about it. Like, the way he handled that was amazing. All the talking about Paul Scholes criticising United after the loss, which I think was a slightly overheated comment given that it was like their first defeat under Carrick. Yeah, it's been. It was one of those,

33:20Ryan Hunn: like how long has that been in the drafts?

33:22Musa Okwonga: In the drafts. But to come back with a win of this quality, they were very impressive United and very patient I thought and they opened them up really well and I think you're seeing the signings the quality of these signings you know Kunio was brought in and there was like a question about whether he could actually match what he did at Wolves but I think just give him a bigger stage and see how he flourishes and again I've said this the thing about United that I love at this point and I genuinely love it is that you have a ton of players that really want to be there it sounds like a really obvious thing but there's a lot of players there where they're like actually feels like a happy place again yeah it's a happy place it's like i'm not looking at this place as a stepping stone i want to make my my legacy here you know whether it's amad whether it's bruno and like you know who knows when bruno will depart if he hangs around for a bit longer or if he leaves in the summer who knows it's not even about that it's about the fact that these players are bringing it every week at the moment and they just look happy they're creating really really well and against the villa team that have been completely ravaged by injuries and have lost a bit of confidence as well.

34:25Musa Okwonga: The failure of their forward line to really bail them out. The Kamara injury is huge, by the way. Let's just kind of keep making that clear. That's a huge, huge injury for a Villa squad that's not the deepest in that area. But United were extremely impressive in this game. Just patient, opening them up. Casemiro is obviously leaving in the summer. He'll be a huge loss. Karl Anker's done some great writing about that. And Seshko just looking more and more confident. Like, and this is, you talk about Arteta easing players in I think that Carrick's been really really good at understanding when a player can be given their legs and the way that he's used Seshko, Seshko came in for a lot of money, there was a lot of noise around him and now he's got like 9 goals in 25 matches which is a pretty creditable return His man management I think has been brilliant It's been exceptional and even on the Sculls thing he just said not a big deal and I thought that's amazing because I don't know Michael Carrick at all from Adam but I'm like that is the that is very much the energy of a man who's defusing it you know like I thought about that that is I mean it's a bit of a cliche but that is exactly how Michael Carrick played football true oh yeah because he was always being compared to other

35:39Ryan Hunn: midfielders you know the England midfielders he's not Gerrard he's not Scholes he's not Lampard Michael Carrick's peak

35:46Musa Okwonga: was comparable to any one of those players Michael Carrick at his peak like peak performance Michael Carrick was top three defense midfielder in the world in the world this is the guy that stopped Mourinho going three straight in the Premier League him it was him like I was there I was watching it it was him the way that man controlled games and took he just took the heat out of situations and I just thought the most Carrick thing ever is take the heat out of this because I saw the Skolls apology and he was scrambling because the backlash like again for someone that is regarded as like didn't really care what the media thought i've seen a couple times when he's made comments and i'm like the heat of social media is it's a new thing actually we forget these people didn't grow up in social media era the backlash for them was a couple of tabloid headlines someone calling out on like a sunday supplement then it's done this is like all the time like he must have paul scolls must have picked up his phone a week later and be like oh my god this stuff is still going because now it's going into different time zones it's coming back people doing shows about they're doing full videos on it and i thought what character brilliantly was we're not going to make the conversation about a haircut yeah because matches knight has been like that for years yeah so just to take and and

36:59Ryan Hunn: it's never had anyone at the middle of the like the closest they've had to it was was was soul shah yeah but soul shah was still i think a bit too pally with those guys because he was of that generation character's not character's off the next generation after that lot this is this is now someone who is you know who does the hashtag knows the club it is familiar and he is a familiar face and he's someone who's quite beloved by the fan base and he was there as a coach as well you know even with that defeat to um to newcastle and even if they haven't been maybe playing as well as the results have suggested if that's what if that's the thing you want to say about it like who cares at the moment they're third and i think what karek's doing is it's kind of faultless really at the moment.

37:44Ryan Hunn: And, I mean, if they end up third in the league at the end of the season. It's incredible. It's kind of wild. And there's just no way, there's just no way he's not going to get the job, I don't think, if that's the case. Like, if he takes him to the Champions League, there's just no way. I don't think they, I don't think the club could afford not to give him the job. I just can't see

38:06Musa Okwonga: a better candidate than him for the job, is what I'm saying at this point. In terms of the fit, and tells what the club need. He's the perfect transition from the old era of United to the new one, where he has enough of the, he's taking enough of the positives, but he's not hamstrung by the nostalgia. I look at Michael Carrick and I don't think of a footballer. I don't see a coach who is obsessed with the past. I see someone who was like, okay, here's a platform to play some good football and do something exciting and create some new memories. And I think that's the key really. Actually, it reminds me a bit this is a hostage to fortune.

38:45Musa Okwonga: It reminds a bit actually of what Andrew was saying when he arrived at Spurs about making new memories, about not being stuck in the past. And I think that's a really exciting opportunity, position for United to be in.

38:56Ryan Hunn: In terms of the rest of the Champions League run, or like the race for the Champions League, how far are we going down? If Brentford win their game in hand, which is against Wolves, we're recording that ahead of Monday night. They go a point behind Chelsea. So they're in it.

39:09Musa Okwonga: They're definitely in it. They're definitely in it. I think Everton have a touch too much to make up. I think it's just a bit too much to make up. They beat Chelsea though coming up. You never know. Yeah, I just think anyone down. I think Brentford, and this is not a knock anyone below there, it's just in terms of the level of fixtures. I think Brentford, Everton, Newcastle, an absolute push. But that's how deep it goes this time. That's a great win for Newcastle at Chelsea. Yeah, really, really good. Still not sure what's happening with that huddle at the beginning. It's just weird. It's all just weird.

39:41Ryan Hunn: like I get it but like unnecessary noise you don't need to do the huddle there in the first place and if something like this happens where the ref just stands in the middle of it it just makes it all like it's just like come on let's all just yeah yeah just quick shout for Brighton as well who won away at Sunderland but yeah I mean like all in all felt like just extremely seismic at the top really seismic in the Champions League races mid table big as well even though that there's like a just a what did we call it earlier in the season? The Premier League DRS train? The DRS train. And then equally big results down the bottom, all cancelling each other out, really.

40:21Musa Okwonga: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

40:22Ryan Hunn: Only with a great point against Bournemouth. Well, that's it. Like, just amazing, you know? Yeah, kind of wild. I mean, in terms of, let's zoom out a little bit before we move on from the Premier League. Massive week for Manchester City and Arsenal in terms of Europe and then the Carabao Cup final next weekend. Do you think that this week is going to be, and I know we don't really like kind of predicting too much.

40:45Musa Okwonga: Let's just look at what City have. They have Madrid in the Champions League. They have Arsenal in the League Cup and then they have Liverpool in the FA Cup. Like all of that together. I mean, obviously that's a bit further. That's a couple of weeks, but there's basically two weeks in which City's destiny is really in the balance. They then go to Chelsea away in the league.

41:11Ryan Hunn: And I think if they get through, there's a Champions League game in between the Liverpool game and the Chelsea game.

41:21Musa Okwonga: It's a really important week, week and a half for Pep. And I think the one comfort for City is the person that's at least complacent about that is Pep himself. It's quite a spiky interview you get, and I quite like spiky Pep most of the time anyway. When he sort of talks about, actually, the criticisms you make, come when I lose, but I don't get maybe sufficient credit for the stuff I do when I win. And we know that's because City have all these resources and everything else. Having said all this, and I've said this before, I still don't think most coaches in world football, in fact, almost no coaches in world football do what Pep has done with the resources Pep has.

41:58Musa Okwonga: They don't do it. Pep has done too many tactically brilliant things for any manager. And I think managers would admit to this privately. Other managers were like, yeah, even if I was given everything that Pep has been given, I couldn't do what he's done there they couldn't and I think it makes this League Cup final really really important they need to do some for City yeah see I was a few weeks ago

42:21Ryan Hunn: I'd seen a few people saying you know I think whoever wins the Cup final is going to win the league and I could see that 100 % if City had reeled Arsenal into like if it was still five points with the game in hand and then they beat Arsenal in the Cup final win the game in hand and then beat them at the Etihad, it's done, right? I feel like that extra little buffer from Arsenal just takes a little bit of the pressure off. I agree. And I think that even if, I think it will be really disappointing for whoever loses that final, but I'm not entirely sure that whoever wins it will definitely win the league now.

43:00Ryan Hunn: I don't think it's quite like that, what it was a few weeks ago, I don't think. These last two results for City, I think, have changed that. in the league in the league the league results because the Real Madrid one is what it is right I mean you never know like City might come back and beat Real Madrid knock them out on penalties or something like that go and win the cup final and then it's all of a sudden like whoa this is why I don't think in terms of the title there's going to be a lot of people doing because this happens this has happened I think probably eight times this season already the way it's like yeah it's done it's done give them the trophy now kind of thing it's not because I think both teams will drop points again this season again and I've been saying it for a long time like not wanting to kind of reiterate it but that lead was going to expand and contract and it's going to change and it's I think that from an Arsenal point of view as unimportant as they can make that City game away is the key it's all about just like being able to lose like City can win the game in hand and Arsenal can lose at the Etihad and still have a buffer that's the key thing

44:04Musa Okwonga: keep it dead effing boring

44:05Ryan Hunn: dead effing boring from now on dead boring dead boring they need to beat Leverkusen in midweek because I think that will probably have a bigger impact on Arsenal than losing the cup final next week

44:16Musa Okwonga: I agree I agree I agree the League Cup I think the League Cup is more important for City because City need to just assert themselves I think against a challenger and I think that's a pick-me-up yeah exactly it's a pick-me-up which sounds like a weird thing I don't want to be dismissive clubs listening to this who are like we'd love to win a League Cup. You know, more in the context of like what it means for City, I think, as it picked me up. Because the thing about, I mean, Real Madrid, they look like they're running hot again. They look like they're doing that kind of late season thing where they're just lighting people up for fun if they want to.

44:54Musa Okwonga: And of course, Barcelona are spawning in kind as we saw this weekend. But it's, I don't know they're going to get much joy out of Real Madrid in that second leg.

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46:26Ryan Hunn: I mean, should we pivot to Real Madrid very quickly just to wrap up a couple of things because Fede Valverde scored again. Well, he only scored two league goals this season and then he scored a hat-trick at midweek and won this weekend, four in two games. Great finish, but not the goal of the game. Which is wild. Because Arda Goulet scored from, not just in his own half, way in his own half. Way in his own half. I can't remember seeing a goal like this in the game like this for a while. yeah with that power

46:53Musa Okwonga: it's not because it's not this wasn't like a Chabby Alonso precision drive the Chabby Alonso one as brilliant as it was against Luton as brilliant as that was this is the hardest strike I've seen from this distance like this is pure technique because Aldegulez is not a big dude no but his technique is absolutely it's incredible that goal is pure technique and he drove it and the thing with this is it's fascinating because it's so brilliant because it's the disguise in it right like well it is disguised it's not like he dummies it but it's the lack of warning like he hits it so early he wins the ball back and then hits it and the the brilliant thing about that is it's like it's taking the game it's like it's the ultimate i mean it's it's going to be the deepest counter-attack of the season it's the you know

47:43Musa Okwonga: and it's you think of a poor detour in the elche goal the moment the thing that's so awful about this is you don't realize and it's funny because i'm looking at his heat map now and he was like part of his heat map is almost in the halfway line oh yeah look at look at his look at his heat map a lot of his activity he's inside his area right but basically about a third of his time he spends detour spent a third of his time in that game played the full 90 minutes between the D of his own area and the D of the center circle. So he was off his line all the time. And Arda Goulet, every time he looked up, must have seen him.

48:20Musa Okwonga: Must have seen him. Like, you know, Arda Goulet started, he came off the bench, but he was watching that the entire time going, oh, that guy's, I'm going to go and surprise him. Because he must, especially when you're sitting, when you're sitting from the side of the pitch, waiting to come on, he's like, I'm going to love this guy. And he tried it actually. He tried it, I think last year, and hit the bar. so this check was coming due for a long time but can you just imagine like being at the Bernabeu and the ball is sailing it's in the air but you know because the thing is I think there's a point where Totoro is like this has beaten me I'm not going to get to this

48:50Ryan Hunn: he's running back and already in his head he's hearing Madrid Madrid it's already played

48:59Musa Okwonga: the thing I love about this goal it's there aren't many ways in which you can compare it to the Max Dahman goal but there's a similarity in the sense of there's a moment Arda Goulet has already scored big goals in his career don't get me wrong but there's always a moment before and a moment after when you score a goal as momentous as this right because there's a different there's a different attention that's paid to you actually when you do a thing like this when Beckham scored that one against and it was different for Beckham because Beckham hadn't had a big moment like Goulet right but it's more like in terms of what does this do to the player's swagger after he scores because there was a difference in Beckham after he scored yeah there was a difference you know what it was it unlocked an error and an element of i knew that i had imagination but i've added execution to it and it's almost like watch me now like you know look at uzman dembele like uzman dembele actually unlocked a different level late in his career where he did a couple of things at psg under that run with lewis enrique and then he just started hot-dogging and we just suddenly saw like all the elements come together so i'm really it's more like not we didn't know who gulet was but it's more like what will this do for his base level of confidence because we already saw, look, Xabi Alonso thought he was the future.

50:09Musa Okwonga: It's very clear Xabi Alonso looked to him and he wasn't just, I think Xabi Alonso gets a lot of criticism for making choices just to annoy the realm of hierarchy. No, I think Ardegula looked, I think Xabi Alonso looked to Ardegula and legitimately thought, that guy can do for us what Florian Witts did for Bayer Leverkusen. That guy will unlock things. But I think Ardegula has had a difficult time because I think he's combined superbly with Mbappe but he still has not fully taken control of that midfield and that's a work in progress but I just want to see what this this does for him because it feels like such a big moment for him individually that yeah I want to see I want to see what it does for him but yeah fingers crossed it's going to be fun whatever happens for sure

50:56Ryan Hunn: Barcelona meanwhile beating Sevilla 5-2 a Rafinha hat-trick quite a bit of a rotation for Barca Gabi came on for the last 10 minutes which was big nice to see Gabi back love that

51:07Musa Okwonga: and what a great response for Barca as well to come back and Cancelo looked great it's actually interesting he looks like he's really settled in that he's been back it's exactly what they need you know it's almost like a real comparison with like Semenyo coming into City and like supercharging the title bid I feel like he's given them a similar dimension if you're going to go with this attacking ethos then you have to be a threat from deep as well. You can't just be like the high line and have him breaking. Like Balde's been great. Don't get me wrong. But have Cancelo there as another playmaker.

51:39Musa Okwonga: And you see how dangerous he is against deep line defenses. Obviously he scored in this game, but like the way he was opening up Sevilla in that, in that corner. I mean, this guy, Cancelo didn't really do anything wrong in attacking context for Pep. It was just the defensive stuff that Pep didn't like. Like this is a brilliant footballer and could be an X factor for them. but I was super impressed by Barca just because Real Madrid really had the tails up after that win and the Goulet goal and Barca were just like no no no we're having none of this yeah

52:09Ryan Hunn: love to see it Atleti beat Itafe in the Derby del Suffer ball El Suffero El Suffero they used to be they're not quite as bad no no they're not but there was there was a there was a time where that game was brutal it was the

52:32Musa Okwonga: sicko's meme wasn't it yes

52:33Ryan Hunn: just a quick shout out down the bottom Real Oviedo got their fourth win of the season they beat Valencia 1-0 and I reckon that'll do us for La Liga just very quickly in Serie A Inter dropped points against Atalanta and Milan couldn't capitalise they lost 1-0 to Lazio meanwhile Napoli beat Lecce 2-1 and Como beat Roma 2-1 to maintain their position in the top four. Back-to-back defeats now for Roma and Juve's win over Udinese means that they slipped sixth. Anything else you want to shout out? I think we... I think good. I'm good. Quick checking with Venezia.

53:19Musa Okwonga: Yes, 0-0 against Sampdoria away. Good result for Samp. Venezia staying top of Serie B. Just a great contest. and that's more I think a comment that result on the depth in that league and the fact that Sampdora are basically fighting for their lives but yeah they're topped by the points

53:37Ryan Hunn: Just a quick shout for the WSL which returned this week Villa holding City to a goalless draw at home Liverpool beating Leicester 2-0 Arsenal beating London City Lionesses 2-0 away which is a good result for them because that now meant that they closed the gap at the top they still got a game in hand not at the top but on the Champions League spots they've got a game in hand on Chelsea and Manchester United and they are a point behind Chelsea two points behind Manchester United those two both play in midweek Chelsea have got Brighton West Ham have got Manchester United and Everton beat Spurs 2-1 at Spurs which was a massive result for Everton

54:17Musa Okwonga: Arsenal are going to regret the early season stumbles because I think like City have got enough in the town to get this done look Arsenal if they get those two in hand they're up at 38 points 5 behind but they've just given themselves too much to do I think it's the early season stumble but having said that good time to run into form

54:37Ryan Hunn: Just quickly in front of Bundesliga Alex Popp got the winner for Wolfsburg well turned out to be the winner for Wolfsburg who beat Leverkusen 2-1 there's a late goal for Leverkusen in that game and then it was announced that she will be joining her beloved Borussia Dortmund at the end of the season

54:54Musa Okwonga: I'm so happy for her

54:56Ryan Hunn: it's been kind of on the cards for a little while hasn't it I think she gave an interview for the Dortmund's YouTube channel and it was just like she was talking about how much she loves the club and kind of amazing for her if you think because Dortmund didn't have a women's team until fairly recently and it must be amazing to have had the journey that Alex Popper's had in her career and then end up what looks like it will be you know unless she has another move after that but doing a big stint at the end of her career for the club that she grew up supporting which didn't even have a women's team it's real home coming yeah and someone that has it's someone who's been through who's seen so many transitions

55:38Musa Okwonga: in women's game and has herself i mean look at the you look at the the position she's played at alex pop is so good at multiple positions probably that sort of the ultimate total footballer like almost like a Fridley Nerofo in terms of excelled defensively, excelled in defensive midfield role, up and out nine, winger, eight, all of that, like front to back. Could have been a goalkeeper, I suppose, if she'd been called upon for that. I'm sure Alex Popp would have saved Wolfsburg in a penalty shootout. She'd had to, but just an incredible player and a genuine like club servant, legend, all the rest of it.

56:14Musa Okwonga: Just unbelievable career and really hyped for her. And a great, and by all accounts, an incredible human being. Like, everything you hear about her from, like, behind the scenes, club, all of it, encouraging young players, taking leadership roles, I just, I haven't heard a single word about her that's less than loudatory. So, yeah.

56:36Ryan Hunn: And very, very quickly before we go, the New York Cosmos are back. However, they are back for playing in USL League One, and they actually hosted Hearts of Pine for their first, for their opening game. Lost 3-1, but no real surprises. Carlser Pine, one of the best teams in USL, that won last season. We haven't really touched on the Bundesliga, but we're going to leave the Bundesliga this week. I'm sure there'll be plenty of chances to pick up on the Bundesliga. Absolutely, there will be. All right, man, well, let's leave it for today. We're going to do that quick Champions League one on Wednesday to round up the Tuesday night second legs, and then we'll do another show on Friday for the rest of the Champions League and any other business from this week.

57:19Ryan Hunn: but yeah if you are listening to this on the free feed and you want to hear those episodes ad free in full and every stadio episode ad free in full go to patreon.com forward slash stadio get 30 % off your first month if you sign up in march you sign up for the stadio social club you'll get 15 % off the merch yeah don't forget the merch on sale now our first merch drop of of the year is available for pre-order. Link is in the description. Go check it. And I reckon that'll do us. So, until Wednesday, don't forget to check the Stadio Archers players on Spotify. Speaking of which, we're playing out on the Daniel Monaco band.

57:57Ryan Hunn: A track called The Devil Left Dancing. Anything you would like to add, Musok Wonga? Nothing further. Alright everyone, much love. Have a great week. We'll be back with you on Wednesday. See you then.

58:13Thank you.

58:46Thank you.

59:12Thank you.

59:42Thank you.

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