The season’s third act begins

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1:36Musa Okwonga: hello and welcome back to the studio podcast i'm iso konga i'm ryan hun ryan how are you doing i'm doing all right thanks man how are you doing other than being attacked on hourly basis by all the pollen in Berlin. I'm good. Are you sure it's not pre-Manchester United angst? Because you can still win the league. Can you still win the league? I'm super choked. We're going to win the league. Can you still win the league? Because no one's paying attention to us. We're going to win the league. Even though we mathematically can't win the league, we're going to win it somehow. We'll find a way. Oh no, you can't win the league anymore.

2:10Oh no, you can on goal difference.

2:13Musa Okwonga: Let's see. There's 15 points. Oh yeah, we can still win. Oh, we're going to do it. you need Arsenal and Manchester City to lose all their games we're going to cook Liverpool can still technically win oh no Liverpool can't they don't want it like we want it oh god it's ours oh god listen you're going to have to be careful otherwise Poland's going to be the least of your problems today that's right come at me anyway before we get on to Moussa talking about Manchester United's title charge we hope everyone's staying safe and well wherever you are and some admin if you would like to hear every Stadio episode ad-free info please go to patreon.com forward slash stadio you can sign up as a podcast member you get all the podcast ad-free info every single episode bonus episodes all of the podcasts basically and the support really really helps if you want to sign up you'll get to listen to all the podcasts that have been up before including last week's Real Sociedad special from the Copa del Rey final on Wednesday not from the Copa del Rey final it was after about the Copa del Rey final.

3:18An episode I very much enjoyed, actually.

3:21Musa Okwonga: Yeah, and thanks so much for the lovely feedback on it. I loved listening to it. Yeah, we had some lovely feedback. Yeah, it was just great talking. It was just great, like, enthusing about something, you know? No, it was great. Yeah, yeah. If you want to sign up as a Stadio Social Club member, you get access to the Stadio Discord as well, including Discord Hangouts. And we had one on Saturday, and I did say to everyone that I feel like my Copa del Rey final from this year is going to turn into my version of you going to Brazil. No, they're completely different. They're completely different. In what sense?

3:53Musa Okwonga: In what sense are they the same? I'm just going to constantly reference it. I never, the difference is I don't reference my experience. You reference yours. I don't reference mine. Let it just do. People are always telling me, yeah, people always tell me, oh yeah, that time you went to it, but I don't, I don't talk about it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, anyway, patreon.com forward slash studio if you would like to sign up and support Stadio it would be much appreciated. Also can I just say Copa del Rey is that the vibiest cup tournament? Consistently the vibiest cup tournament? If you think about how viby it's been especially the last few years Pokal's good.

4:27Musa Okwonga: Pokal's yeah. Actually do you know what Pokal? Early rounds of Pokal although the early rounds of the Copa del Rey this year were very very good. Yeah and genuinely do you know actually the Pokal I think the Copa del Rey delivers all the way through the tournament. The Pokal sometimes assumes normality by the end but the Copa del Rey it somehow maintains intensity I think but yeah Dinamo Dresden took like 20 ,000 fans to the Olympia Stadion that's very Pokal coded that's funny yes because I bumped into that's so true because I bumped into the Hertha fans on the way back from that game actually that evening yeah they were lovely one more bit of admin if you want to come and see us in London at the Southbank Centre in July it's the week after the Thursday after the World Cup final we're going to have a special guest Nish Kumar it's our rescheduled live show at the Southbank Centre tickets are in the description link to buy is in the description if you want to come and see us for the second of our Southbank Centre shows and one final shout out kickbacksoccer.com go check out their stuff we're doing some stuff with them Moose has been on some podcasts I've been on some podcasts you wrote something for their newsletter something else coming soon something else coming up so go check those out and I reckon that's all the admin today we're going to touch on some stuff from the weekend some good some bad but we're not going to go into anything in too much detail from the weekend specifically we're then also going to chat a little bit about the men's champions coming up this week because the semi-final first legs are coming up Tuesday and Wednesday so that'll do us I think for today alright so there is only one place to begin today yes Rochdale York incorrect it was worth a try it was worth a try I'll allow it you could have also had Mainz 3, Bayern 4 because Mainz doing the bit again but this time Bayern allowed him to get 3-0 up before coming back and winning the game.

6:23Musa Okwonga: I can't work out what's scary of Mainz doing that to Bayern or Bayern just getting like four goals in the last half hour just deciding to do it. I think it's Bayern just deciding to turn it on at Mainz. It's not the easiest place to go and do that to be honest but yeah Michael Alisa scoring that goal again. He's trying to trademark the Robin goal it just makes it look so easy yeah yeah yeah no seriously where do you want to start? do you want to shout out York and Rochdale? wow okay so the two teams both broke a 100 point barrier trying to get promoted back to the Football League and it was wild so Rochdale had to win I think they both scored like over 80 goals as well Rochdale have scored 88 goals York City have scored 114 goals they've both conceded 41 unreal like and that is a grueling campaign only one team gets promoted to the football league 46 dude 46 games the thing about this is the thing about Premier League down it's just and think about that Ryan that's 46 games without the infrastructure and the resources of teams that are playing like you know that many games and then playoffs and then playoffs brutal brutal 46 games and at the end of it it comes down to one match last game of the season and Rochdale have to win and they score like right at the end.

7:44Musa Okwonga: In the 95th minute. 95th minute. And they think that's it. And of course the celebration is unbelievable. And then like York City. The premature pitch invasion. I know. But the thing is it wasn't premature though. Was it because it was like Well I know. It's wild thinking that you can be premature in the 95th minute. Yeah. And then like they scramble. York City scramble and equalise it. Literally scramble it. Like four or five swings at it. Goes in and then total bedlam. Devastating for Rochdale. Incredible for York. Welcome back. A huge welcome back for them. And also a huge welcome back, well, not welcome back, a welcome up to Bromley.

8:22Musa Okwonga: First time ever in the third tier. Incredible. They got it done. Very tight at the top. They had a couple of very tough fixtures in the running, but they've managed to secure promotion. So yeah, some real joy for a couple of fan bases there. Devastation for others. And also while we're congratulating teams, congratulations to Coventry for clinching the championship championship. They defeated Wrexham 3-1. Frank Lampard back in the Premier League. Yes, yes. And better than ever, actually. But there is a vacancy at Stamford Bridge. How long before he will be tempted? I feel like McFarlane and Lampard are both exactly where they need to be, actually.

8:57Chelsea into the FA Cup final. Callum McFarlane. Another one on the resume for him, getting Chelsea into the FA Cup final. They beat Leeds 1-0 on the second of the semifinals this weekend.

9:06Musa Okwonga: A good Chelsea performance. Yeah, I think some might say the turning point was the Brendan Aronson chance. It's a good save from Sanchez. It's a really good save. I don't think it was so much a bad miss. I think if he'd gone higher, maybe he had a better chance. But I think that finish that he had early on, I think maybe a truly elite. I mean, I don't want to be too critical. I think to score that, you have to go top corner. And I think very few players in the world put it there. and after that I think the momentum shift happened and Chelsea looked really good the rest of the first half took the lead through Enzo Fernandes and saw the game out but Leeds started so so well it was actually quite gutting I think for those two teams Southampton and Leeds the semi-final losers because they were such good value and I don't think they could have given in either case any more than they gave I mean if you look at like City's starting 11 the rotations were huge and they still had exceptional quality I mean Kovacic and Marmouche that's that's those those players would start for almost any other team in the world well yeah unbelievable depth yeah and Reigns I mean that's the that's the thing about Manchester isn't it it's just you know all of a sudden you realise that oh yeah they can just start Marmouche in games who was one of the best players in the Bundesliga two years ago and in Europe I mean it's it's kind of ridiculous so Leeds unlucky Leeds Chelsea great value for that and actually it was nice to see some Chelsea fans who've been a bit down on everything especially you know just it was nice to see them kind of rallying around this and being a bit sort of more positive about the final because at the end of the day it's a cup final it's a potential trophy and it's a huge look for them elsewhere well in the tournaments obviously Southampton fantastic against City going out to two late goals they got a banger themselves I mean that opener they got was I just wish they'd been allowed to enjoy it like a little bit longer like a few minutes longer because the doku deflected strike i was watching again thinking it wasn't even bad defending because you can't really get that tight to doku like when he cuts inside like that it was like robin like you can't really when a player like that shifts onto their favorite foot and cuts in you can't really stop them getting a shot off and i just wish if there's anything i wish had gone top corner like nico gonzalez i wish they'd been beaten by two bangers i just wish they'd been beaten by two goals like that you know what i mean like then it would have been okay the deflected strike so soon after their opener felt a bit sour they defended superbly and they they're still on a great run and also i can say this as well for arsenal fans it makes that defeat age quite well because turns out southampton really quite really quite a good team yeah not bad yeah not bad at all so it's going to be chelsea man city in the final yep i would have liked one of them to be different just because for the sake of a bit.

11:58Musa Okwonga: It's the cup final, you know? Well, I mean, I think as a neutral, just as a thing, I think Southampton leads as a final would have been unbelievable. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, apologies Chelsea, Man City fans. Although, to be fair, you know, like, Man City have been to Wembley so often in the light under Pep. You know, this isn't an Arsenal fan talking here, this is just a football fan talking, but it would have been nice, I think, for that to have two clubs who were really, were like, okay, this is special and this is something that we're all going to, you know, it's going to be like the biggest, biggest day out for a while.

12:34But then I also think that that's sometimes a bit of a symptom of the Wembley semifinals, you know?

12:42Musa Okwonga: Yeah. I think especially if you get the two semifinals where there are clear favourites over another, I think a lot of fans will be like, well, I'll just, I'll wait for the final. We go through to the final. I really don't like semi-finals at Wembley I've said this before but I mean imagine if we had City, Southampton at Villa Park Villa Park's the one isn't it Villa Park's the iconic Chelsea you know you can imagine Chelsea Leeds at St James Park somewhere like that I think I think I think yeah Amfield or Trafford I just think those places for semis are like just yeah true true Wembley is the showpiece or not treating as a showpiece anymore, I think you lose a lot.

13:27Musa Okwonga: We have this conversation every year, though. But it is what it is. It is what it is. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over$900 on average. Pop over to Progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99 % of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings by$946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025.

14:07Potential savings will vary. Hi friends, Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar,

14:12Musa Okwonga: a little goes a long way and Walmart Business is here to help. They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax-exempt purchasing for eligible organisations. Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.walmart.com to get started. Should we shout out the Women's Champions League? Yes, absolutely. Because they had the first legs of the semi-finals this weekend. Arsenal beating Lyon. This is such an interesting game because Arsenal started fairly well, but were just so open for the Yul Brand opener.

14:49Musa Okwonga: her it was strange because i think they were expecting her to go outside but then she cut in and then like the center backs weren't aligned and she just marched through that space um they recovered well but i mean leon i mean these defensive errors they won't make those in the second leg i think is the only consolation for them they won't make them a second leg um caldente's free kick just going through their keeper for the equalizer and then olivia smith when she goes through on goal there's the covering defender and the goalkeeper and she's basically the last person you expect to score though or at least end up the ball.

15:24Musa Okwonga: She goes through gets the winner for them and they're going to really need everything away because Leon are going to capitulate like that in the return. But again this is a really strong title defence I've got to say if we look the first couple of games into the season we did not think they'd be here. And also if you look at their because City lost on the weekend in the league as well if Arsenal win all of their games in hand I think there's only two points in it. It's funny, isn't it? There's a certain resilience. I've got to say to Arsenal, they've got a certain resilience about them, which is what won them this whole thing last time.

15:54Musa Okwonga: And actually, not the wildest shout to see them do it again. Consider what happened in the other semi-final. Bayern won, Barcelona won. Barcelona looked like they'd be out of sight. Their opening goal, the way they cut them open, Payol with that brilliant angled finish, that's her trademark, she's the absolute technician in the 10 yards out inwards. they look they're going to absolutely just cut by and apart and Kett going Kett was on a on a journey gets a brilliant equalizer as a such a good finish Peniela Harder cuts them open um and provides the assist Kett gets the equalizer and then gets sent off for like pulling hair which is a thing we've just seen a lot of recently yeah I don't think it's a particular I don't think it's an epidemic or something you're seeing more I think it's more about slim margins and players just doing anything to gain advantage, but it's just a bad look.

16:48Musa Okwonga: And I think it's something that's got to be clamped down on. And listen, that's happening, to be honest. So Barcelona coming out there with the draw, that's disappointing for them because they had the dominance in terms of chances created. But again, it's that funny thing of like, every now and again, Barcelona, this is like, you know, the greatest team of their generation. and yet I still see gaps I still see opportunities against teams that can kind of hang with them teams that absorb the initial onslaught have a chance against Barcelona so whoever makes it out of the Arsenal Lyon semi can fancy themselves against whoever comes through on that so it was the first time that Lyon have lost on English soil wow that's really impressive actually there's just something about this Arsenal team Can I say as well, vindication for going big on Olivia Smith.

17:40Musa Okwonga: I think she's come up with huge goals. That finish was very, very impressive actually, because she didn't really have a lot of time to think about it. No, totally. Yeah, yeah. It was very actually, it was actually, it was quite Eva Payal style actually. Real penalty box specialist and didn't care how she got it done. And this is the thing I like about this team. They haven't necessarily played the vintage football of Arsenal teams that have not achieved as much. but they take they're the shock absorbers they're the ultimate shock absorbers and yeah I wouldn't bet against them actually Alright shall we go to the Premier League because Let's do it It felt like there was some there was some good, there was some bad there was some ugly and no one is having a good time I'm having a great time It's not about you

18:31So I wrote a thing Do you remember I wrote that piece for the newsletter a few, it was a couple of months ago now, just basically saying everyone is stressed and no one is happy. And I just, it was a very tongue in cheek thing where I just ran down the Premier League and basically was like, everyone is miserable. Everyone's having a terrible time. I think it's kind of, it's kind of aged fairly well because Sunderland were in the shout for having the time and they are like...

18:53Musa Okwonga: Some of the defending in the first half, in the first 20 minutes, this is not a team that's locked in. They wouldn't have done that. When the weekend opened with Sunderland losing 5-0 at home to Forest, I was just like, okay. This felt like very much like the ripples in the water of Jurassic Park in the glass of water before I was like something big is coming this weekend. I mean, I gotta say, I feel for Spurs fans watching Sunderland just cave in like that. That is pretty galling if you think of how tight they've been defensively. And I think maybe they've been so tightly wound by a very, very disciplined coach, tactically smart coach that actually having that sort of a sense of daylight and they just eased off a bit i don't i don't think they chucked this game we're not saying that i'm saying that like just releasing a bit of tension against the forest team just fighting for their lives and forest were leaping on everything so it meant that every half step i think it's the third goal the third goal which is like comes in a pelty box scramble and one of its uh forest places smashes are in you know like maybe they're maybe they're a step closer to that earlier in the season well they definitely are actually so yeah like with the weekend starting like that I was like the most interesting part of this league table is going to be the bottom of the table well yeah and I mean it was right you had the late the late win for West Ham over Everton they'd switched positions with Spurs because Jaipolini's goal late for Spurs against Wolves took them out of the relegation zone when Dewsbury Hall scored for Everton and that point for West Ham wouldn't have been enough to keep them out of the relegation zone and then they had a late Callum Wilson goal which takes them back out of the relegation zone they've now won three of sorry they've won two of their last three and they've only lost one of their last five West Ham that's when they're playing well like they're really that's a really good win over Everton and I think think about this game again Spurs showed some decent stuff against Wolves a resilient team and it was a very like abrasive encounter really abrasive and Spurs came through well um show great commitment there but the thing I loved about the West Ham winning goal by Callum Wilson was how calmly he handled it that is went in like he saw it bouncing awkwardly and he was like do you know what get it down into the turf get it on target don't overcook it how many times have we seen players sky it in that situation absolutely just slash it like high and wide and he was locked in and even his celebration was super calm I was like man this guy's celebrating like it's like the fifth goal in like a five five one or something yeah great for west ham and can i say as well we said this before but it was loud the atmosphere there has been really really good and rocking yeah yeah yeah yeah really good more woes for spurs losing javi simons uh who that's awful it's awful torn his acl and will miss the world cup this feels like now there's it was Estaval last week had a grade 4 hamstring tear or rupture basically he's going to miss the World Cup Xavi Simons is going to miss the World Cup you always had Hugo Eketika a couple of weeks ago are going to miss the World Cup Laminio Miles is going to be close but isn't expected to miss the World Cup and also you've got Mo Salah who looks like he's going to miss potentially the rest of the season he might have already played his last game for Liverpool I mean, the stuff that I've read so far, there's fingers being crossed that he might be able to at least feature before the end of the season, but that's going to be cutting it really, really fine, ahead of the World Cup as well.

22:29I hate this point of the season in a World Cup year. I hate it because they always feel so unsustainable, right? Where you have such pressure and such high intensity team physical matches being played with so much to play for for certain players and even if there's not you know like uh sometimes there can just be non-contact things that happen but

22:58i mean when you're going when you're in a relegation battle anyway like spurs are and they're in the position they're in with such an injury list to have something happen that serious to a player who of such importance at this stage of the season it's such a look I'm seeing what you know seeing Kai Havertz and and Ebrecht Yezid go off in a game at the other end of the table and I'm like oh god they need Xavi Simons he unlocks them so much for them to like have it at that point like of the season at that in that position of the table I know we

23:34Musa Okwonga: joke about the football gods but this does feel like a really cursed time for spurs because you look at the results they've had in those three games and they've played better football than results suggest they really have and there's been a kind of alignment uh between fans and players there's been more of a bond there i feel this is sort of purely anecdotal they're rallying as well as they can but they're not getting the luck and the chavis simons injury if you had to name one injury I mean it's devastating for him as a player it's just horrific I mean a young player missing the World Cup in which he was set to play a huge role a huge role like they really need him as an outlet and coming into the Spurs team and like giving them some hope playing with some freedom it's it's it's cruel in a level that you can't imagine it just feels with everything else Spurs have navigated this year just one more thing where you feel like it's yeah of course something this was going to happen.

24:30Musa Okwonga: Like it felt like that, you know, when it just, it all accumulates. But yeah, just gutted for him. And I got to say, if any sort of bright sort of shoots were there, Matisse Tell looked fantastic. He looked really good. Was really going at, I mean, Spurs, I think we'll drive for this till the end of the season. They're not going to capitulate, but the problem is the teams above them have suddenly found their, they found their sea legs. So we'll see. We'll see. I mean, it's, Their first league win in 118 days. I mean, that alone, they've got to at least draw something from that. They've got to take some...

25:08That's unbelievable when you think about it. 118 days. Third of a year.

25:13Musa Okwonga: Third of a year. Absolutely wild. Yeah. Just under a third of a year. Their first Premier League victory since December. Must be so frustrating when you can't even get something like that over the line without something massive happening in a negative sense, you know. Absolutely. I mean, the thing about Barcelona and Laminia Mal, I suppose the benefit there is five games to go, they're 11 points clear. They should get the league done. Yeah, that late Hector Bellerin goal for Betis against Real Madrid on Friday was a massive blow for Real Madrid. Agent Hector. Yeah, they could get the league done.

25:49Musa Okwonga: And actually, not the worst thing for Laminia Mal to get a bit of rest before that big campaign because it will be gruelling. We've talked a lot about the extra round of games and also the travel. The extra phase, so yeah. yeah wild Barca 11 points clear at the top La Liga with 5 to play yes Marcus Rashford with Fermin Lopez I'm like oh he's in my underrated 11 I just I love this guy get the opener and then the late late goal for Marcus Rashford lovely finish from him just before we dart back to the Premier League on La Liga Atleti beating Athletic Club 3-2 the last the stoppage time at the end of this game was wild Serlo made it 3-1 and then Gouroseta scored a few minutes later and it looked like Athletic Club might have made a bit of a charge and got back into it.

26:35The late stages of that game, Athletic Club were really, really good. But elsewhere, Real Sociedad. Hell of a week after winning the Copa de Rae final. When they got Getafe'd. Hangover week. Sid Lowe wrote a really great piece about Real Sociedad playing Getafe. And it was like the aftermath of the final and the celebrations and then getting back and playing Guitafe and it was like the hangover from hell so there's if there's one one team you do not want to play after winning the Copa del Rey it's Guitafe but then they went to Rai Vaillacano on the weekend were 1-0 up were 3-1 up and conceded a 99th minute equaliser 3-0 and it looks like that's probably it for Champions League I think for them now but it always felt a little bit of a stretch I don't think they will I mean considering considering where they were when Pellegrino Matarazzo took charge exactly I think a Copa del Rey and potentially a European finish as well because they might still make Europa League or Conference League

27:47Musa Okwonga: I tell you what Europa League absolutely wild Europa League with that confidence and those players that is a hell of an adventure you know what I would I like that for them even if they get in the conference league if they get in the conference league I think they could go and win the conference league if they get into that they're favourites they're one of the favourites but I think Europa League I think for their growth I think it's the best one I think it's a good look for them down the other end of the table Real Oviedo's really good run came to a halt Elche beat them 2-1 Levante playing Espanyol today Sevilla lost to Asasuna 2-1 as well so it's very tight still down at the bottom of that table actually on Elche Before I forget, we should probably give them a lot more love than we do, just given that they have had a banger of a season.

28:32Three wins in a row, four in the last five. Superb. And they were in trouble for a little bit and they kind of managed to...

28:38Musa Okwonga: They were, yeah. And expected trouble. I'm more surprised by the recovery than the trouble, I've got to say. But yeah. All right, back to the Premier League. Should we go to the top of the Premier League? Yeah, let's do it. Well, did you want to talk about anything else more down the bottom end? No, no. All good. All good. Well, the main game for the weekend, I suppose... It's definitely Arsenal-Newcastle. Arsenal-Newcastle. Yeah. Go on, give me your thoughts because I'm not sure I'm ready to talk about that game again. I thought slightly subpar result. I thought maybe 2-0 as opposed to 1-0. I thought a second goal.

29:11Musa Okwonga: I think Arsenal were good value for a second goal in this game. That's all I would say. I think in terms of the performance, I was impressed. They battled well Arsenal against a Newcastle side low on confidence but needing to make some kind of statement after some tough recent results. So they faced Newcastle at quite a vulnerable time, but those games can be quite difficult. But I thought in the first game after the defeat that ended the world, they got the three points. The two defeats that ended the world. Yeah, yeah. And I thought, you know what, well, you know, in terms of this league defeat, this particular one to City, look, it's going to be a straight shoot up to the end of the season and getting the three points on the board and moving ahead of City when City have some really tough away games in particular to navigate, I just thought, you know, job done.

29:57Musa Okwonga: And a gorgeous goal from Eze. I'm really happy for him personally, just because I think the journey he's been on this year, sometimes I think sometimes the emotion of it has been overwhelming. I think sometimes what's required of him tactically has been difficult to adjust to. But he seems to come out the other side of that pretty well. So yeah, just a really strong win. And I suppose the only downer is the injury to Kai Havertz. yeah looks okay though I think well Eze came off as well but I think they were I think they're both going to be fine that's a big look for them yeah I think it's some of the noises coming out after seem a lot more positive than they would have been in the past if it was anything super serious but Nacastas are interesting right because they it's just they're just a nightmare matchup for Arsenal they have been for a good few years now since the the game you know when Arsenal were pushing for the Champions League and they and it was like one of the last games of the season, everyone was just knackered.

30:56I remember Ben White's hammer. It was on the Amazon, all or nothing doc. And ever since then, really, it's just always felt a bit uncomfortable. You know, went out in the Carabao Cup last season. But interestingly enough, the only two wins that Newcastle have had in the league since they beat Spurs, I think. Is that right? No, since they beat Spurs in the league in February, the only two league games they've won have been against Manchester United and Chelsea they've lost to sides below them or around them they lost to Manchester City to be fair lost at home to Bournemouth lost away at Palace they're actually on a five straight losses kind of horrible run in the league horrible horrible horrible well everywhere frankly yeah but yeah this was I think this was one of those I know there's a lot of talk about goal difference at the moment but this felt more of a just a win this needs to like forget the goal difference this just needs to be three points because if Arsenal don't win that game on the weekend it's done I think in terms of the mood around the place I think the league is just I think it's very very hard to recover from let's just say a winless run of three games in the league at this point in the season and so I think the fact that they scored early and you know they could have scored another I think they also rode their luck a little bit Joane Wisser had a great chance that he put over the bar

32:21Musa Okwonga: yes yes yes but it was always going to be nervy, you know, and I think that hopefully, you'll hope that maybe Fulham at home next weekend won't be quite as nervy. And then if that goes well, and that's another three points, the three points are the absolutely, like I would take every game being 1-0 for the rest of the season, because I think if Arsenal win every single league game 1-0 for the rest of the season, I think they win the league. I think Andrew Arsblock said that as well. And I think that if Arsenal win out for the rest of the season, I think they win the league. City have a couple of really tough ones coming up.

33:00Yeah, and I think that if Arsenal are six points clear by the time that Manchester City have to go to Everton on a Monday night, that's just not a... That's a different psychology then. Because one misstep and you're done.

33:14Musa Okwonga: Yeah, totally. So at the moment, it's just like... I actually thought that maybe the performance was slightly better than it was being made out that it was. Oh, the arse against Newcastle? Yeah. Of course it was. Of course it's always... Well, there's a hot take here which is the only two games in which they've been poor in recent weeks, the ones where they've like deliberately like weakened the line-up because of the cup competitions and they've given these psychological advantages but these, you know, the cups when they went out and they played football like that, they were really disappointing and I didn't understand.

33:47Musa Okwonga: I just thought, why are you giving up a psychological advantage? And I thought to myself, this isn't someone who successfully navigated the title race before, because if you have, you go for it in everything. If you look at like, I'm not to get all nostalgic or whatever, but if you look at the teams that have won the league, the Premier League in recent years, they've also got quite good cup records. You look at Chelsea, for example, look how many FA Cups Chelsea won. Why? Because you have to keep the players battle hardened, right? And Wenger knew that too. I just think with Arteta, it's this thing of, it's not specific to him.

34:19Musa Okwonga: Potts was like that too, you know, Let's just focus on the league. But the problem with that is, if you lose intensity, then people smell fear and they smell conservatism and they go for you. And I just think if he could run anything back, I'm not saying he had like the... Arteta maybe doesn't have the greatest sort of bounty in terms of core players that he trusts. I think he has a very good squad, but maybe he doesn't yet feel fully confident outside the boundaries of the core of the squad. Maybe, I don't know. But I think if he could run anything back, maybe not concede quite so much in that Carabao Cup final.

34:52Musa Okwonga: But that's it. For the most part, when he's been coaching with a reasonably available group of players, they've looked pretty good. But then again, I'm outside the Arsenal ecosystem, so I'm more detached. I'm having, I'm having, listen, I'm having, I'm having a great time this year.

35:13Musa Okwonga: Lucky you. Lucky you, eh? Anyway, right. Quick shout outs. Fulham being Villa 1-0 that's a big result that and that keeps it the knock-on effects of stuff like this are interesting right because it keeps the Champions League places up for grabs a little bit more which means you know he's like Villa might have something to play for in that final game of the season oh they will I totally think they will I'm just asking questions and Marco Silva you know what I love about this as well Marco Silva going did we look like we were on the beach I'm hoping that Fulham might fancy a little trip to the beach on Saturday well they haven't had the best record actually in the last three seasons apparently they've really well not apparently like there's a fact they kind of tail off towards the end of the season because they're in this strange bit of like they secure safety and then how much do you push on and I'm not saying they necessarily should so I think this is extremely interesting and like I said I mean Villa on the last day I mean City hosts them on the last day it's a tough game yeah yeah yeah We'll see.

36:19Musa Okwonga: I love the way it's all shaping up. I think Arsenal don't go to Palace, though. That's not going to be a walkover. It's really not. Yeah, well, I'm hoping that Palace are resting everyone. Play the kids. Play the kids. It'll happen, though. The reserve team youthkeeper have a stormer. Stop everything. Speaking of Palace, a 3-1 defeat to Liverpool on the weekend. it was a scary moment though because third choice keeper Freddie Woodman we're talking about non-contact injury he went down off the ball for the Munoz goal and to be honest I'm kind of amazed that he managed to play on because that looked like he might be done quite a scary moment and I think Viet's getting the third goal for insurance is quite nice because it takes the conversation just away it means it can it means the discourse can disperse fairly quickly I suppose if we're talking about discourse around Liverpool Paul.

37:13Musa Okwonga: Isak getting the opener was a big look as well. His first goal since? Since the injury? Since coming back? Schlott's really happy with his fitness though which is a great thing. So lots more to come from them. On a happy note as well Andy Robertson getting one. Having announced his departure this summer. Lovely goal. Rolling back the years. So yeah gorgeous finish. One of my faves. If it's like. Do you know where he's going to go? I don't know. Do you know where I hope he goes? What's there he are? Napoli. I thought you were to say Naples. Do you know what? Oh my God. That'd be a vibe. It's a whole vibe.

37:49Musa Okwonga: The pilgrimages they'd make to that place. Oh my God. I might ask, I might see if they need a... I would love Naples. You guys want to start a podcast? He would do an incredible... Do you know what? The reason why he'd be an incredible podcast host. You know why he'd be amazing? Because everyone would go on it. You know, people that don't give interviews would go on Andy Robertson's podcast. Yeah. He'd be that guy that like, I don't talk to anyone, but I talk to you. I think he'd be incredible. And also, he would have the best stories because having played at Hull and all of that, like you've got all of that thing where players who've come from clubs with like fewer resources, a bit less infrastructure, they've just got, you know, the hangout, the ex-pros, all of that.

38:30Musa Okwonga: They'll just have the fullest range of stories. I would love an Andy Robertson podcast, actually. Me too. Yeah, pitch it, pitch it. Andy, if you need a podcast, we've got you. Get on the network. I mean while we're in Italy and we're talking about Naples and that while we're talking about Napoli Napoli beat Cremonese 4-0 on Friday Kevin De Bruyne is back happy so back yeah Milan Juve happened it was a game that happened one of the games of all time speaking of Serie A there is a there's a lot going on in Serie A current situation is that the not in a good way Italian referee chief Gianluca Rocci is has been accused of pressing Serie A officials.

39:15He's placed under investigation by prosecutors in Milan for what they're calling sporting fraud. He said on Saturday that he decided to, this is from a Guardian article, he decided to suspend himself from his role as the man who assigns referees matches to Italy, to matches in Italy's top two divisions. The quote says, this painful and difficult decision is intended to allow the judicial proceedings from which I am certain I will emerge unscathed to run smoothly. The video assistant referee chief, Andrea Gervasoni, is also under investigation for the same charge. We're going to keep an eye on that and we're going to return to it and maybe do a little more on that because it feels like there's a few things brewing in Serie A.

40:01Musa Okwonga: I mean, the Rocky stuff is awful. This is okay, get this. This is from ESPN. he allegedly interfered with VAR protocols during a Serie A match between Udinese and Parma on March 1st, 2025 by banging on the window of the VAR booth and recommending the officials call for an on-field review of a penalty. How intimidating is that? You're like a match official. That is bleak, man. That's bleak. It's all very, very murky. We'll wait for a little more information on that because I think there's a conversation to be had to think about Serie A in general, but also just the infrastructure around Italian football in general.

40:43But I think we'll call in someone for that. An expert, yeah.

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41:34Musa Okwonga: business is here to help they make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax exempt purchasing for eligible organizations because when your operations are smooth your impact can be bigger visit business.warmart.com to get started all right man before we go shall we look ahead to the men's champions league semi-final first legs that are taking place this week you also got um the CONCACAF Champions Cup semi-final and the Cop of Libertadores as well this week this is mean I'm going to say I'll say in advance this is mean you're not going to like me for this but I'm going to say it anyway because I've started okay so I'm just sharing with you the match insights from FOTMOB for the two games so the match insight FOTMOB the preview match so Bayern have won nine straight and are unbeaten in 19 matches the match insight for Lady Arsenal is Arsenal have lost three of the last six matches so just in case and they're not playing each other so it's fine think about yourselves look I really like these semis as matchups and you didn't read the Atleti thing did you lost two of five recent home matches it wasn't the insight they gave us what's interesting about it I think is Atleti really really want this need this it's their only real last chance at glory so it's lived in chance at glory Arsenal I think have recovered quite well.

43:01Musa Okwonga: I think if I look at the City game and this back-to-back, these, dare I say, they're entering this game on a pretty good run of form. I think they're handling games well. They're handling challenges quite well. I think they've looked quite good in the last couple of games. And in the other one, I think Bayern PSG, I think it promises to be more, on paper, it promises more excitement. But I think actually this Atleti could be quite chaotic. I think this is the best Atleti in the Champions League I've seen since they beat Lippo-Lanfield in the 3-1 in terms of the tools they have. Is that the pre-COVID?

43:34Musa Okwonga: Yeah, the pre-COVID one. They look terrific in that one. Arsenal are my slight favourites in this one. And over in the other semi, Bayern, PSG, be it too close for call. Obviously now, like, Bayern have clinched the championship. But just really, I'm hyped for them. How are you feeling about them? I mean, it's hard to take off your Arsenal hat, but how are you feeling about the games I think they're really, really good semi-finals. They are, aren't they? Yeah. There's obviously tons of narrative and the narrative is going to be that there's one that's going to be this beautiful, smooth, silky...

44:12Musa Okwonga: A ballet. Just, oh. And the other one's going to be, I don't know, like watching a Michael Harnaker film, right? For some people. But I don't think that's going to be the case. Yeah, because I think that it was fairly open the last time they met in the league phase and I know it's a different context but also Look at Aleti's last few games as well. This is a team that's playing pretty open. Yeah, but I mean they do. They do. They play way more open than they have done in the past. They're creaking a little bit in terms of injuries it looks like they might be without Luckman might be without Barrios

44:54I think if Arsenal get away from the Metropolitano with a draw or a win I think they're good I'm not I'm not sure if the first leg is is going to be the wildest of the two if they can keep if they can keep the Metropolitano quietish they'll be alright I think it's just good shout it's set up really nicely I think for Bayern PSG I've got a feeling Bayern might beat PSG in Paris I've got I've got a feeling that if one of the if one of the ties is going to end up being a little bit lower key I think it might be that one because everyone's expecting it to be

45:39Musa Okwonga: yeah yeah I see that I see that I see that Bayern beat PSG in the league phase as well and they were down to 10 right it was the Lewis Diaz game oh he was getting everything yeah so he got two and then got sent off before half time yeah and Bayern having scored really dug in in the second yeah so So, Luis Diaz got two in the first half and then got sent off in stoppage time at the end of the first half. Living my dream, yeah. And in the second half, Bayern basically just gave up all the ball. PSG had 86 % possession in the second half and absolutely dominated and Bayern hung on. Only they had a Jauneves goal.

46:14Side note, by the way, and I don't know why this only just occurred to me. Off the top of your head, how old is Jauneves? 22. 21?

46:24Musa Okwonga: yes yes because super young yeah yeah he's one of those young dudes he looks old like he's like pedro i think him and pedro probably mates because they're just like oh you know pipe they're real sort of piper slippers gang you imagine coming at the hotel i'm going keep it down you're so loud over there like what do you mean you're like pedro dropping that when i was your age and they're like that was like 18 months ago dude yeah exactly he's like well yeah but pedro has seen things he has he's gonna look at his face he's like oh i've seen it all well that was the famous photo of him when he went to the Olympics after the Euros in that COVID year do you remember and Pedri's face went in the lineup but he just looked like he hadn't slept for because he literally hadn't I mean look how many connected flights that man caught yeah so yeah I've got a feeling that I mean this isn't a kind of a like a comment on the quality or anything like that because obviously both sides are unbelievable but I just I have this suspicion that Bayern might might get a couple out in front and then this is why I don't do predictions right because this could probably be completely wrong Bayern could get a couple out in front in Paris and then all of a sudden it's like oh bit of a bit of an anti-climax I just think that attack the thing about this set of semi-finals is all the strengths match up to the weaknesses I love it love it love it I think it's it's going to be great and look any any configuration of final would be a really compelling final just because of the blend of styles but yeah I can't wait I'm always so hyped for the Champions League it's funny like every year it comes around no matter how jaded I might be leading up to the games by the time they come I'm just like wouldn't be anywhere else I think if Arsenal got through I'd rather face Bayern than PSG PSG's horrible PSG's horrible you know what it is it's because that front that front line is completely just in terms of how they match up as well yeah the total fluidity yeah yeah I think I'd rather play Bayern it's the pockets they find I completely agree I completely agree actually well looking forward to Arsenal getting through and then Bayern's 6-0 win in the Champions League I'm just like cursed everything because that was quite like a that was a real round I was saying to you before we got on three three weekends worth of football happening one weekend actually Well, this is, before we go, I don't know if you felt the same, but this weekend felt like the beginning of the business end of the season.

48:59Musa Okwonga: Yes. Yes, very much so. Very much so. This is where it all comes together. Right. There's multiple different things going on, multiple different stakes at play, multiple different competitions. It's the third act. It's the third act. Yeah, totally. I've said this before, but actually someone was talking, there was a great discussion on Blue Sky about historians. historian someone said i think stephen bush writes for natural times he said historians among you which historical takes do you look back and rethink now that you've had your whole career and you've seen the last few years what do you rethink and someone posted very interesting thing someone said as a structuralist i'm all about structures whatever and like you know it's it's not individuals it's people it's structures he said but what i'm realizing is individuals have far greater agency to shape history than i originally anticipated and i say all that to say that what you say and do as a supporter of a club at the business end of a season has a huge impact a huge impact i keep going back to that story i know referencing brazil not having gone to brazil but i always mention that brazil supporter who when when the netherlands drew it to all in the world cup quarterfinal took out her battered trumpet and played the funeral watch and the entire support like just burst out laughing i started chanting again yeah it was amazing.

50:15Musa Okwonga: She gets up this battered trumpet from this trumpet case. And I think Netherlands just scored twice in a few minutes to bring it back to two all. And Bristol hadn't been on a World Cup for 24 years. And she gets up this trumpet ryan and she starts playing this funeral march, really humorously, smiling. And everyone around her just laughs, breaks the tension. Brasil, Brasil, Brasil. It's amazing. It's one of the most incredible energy shifts I've seen in a football ground caused by one person just going, hey, come on, if we don't laugh, we cry. So that, stuff like that, you need to like, mood shifts.

50:51I had one of those once. I was away watching Arsenal play at Man City at the Etihad and Aguero hit a shot miles over the bar and an old guy behind me went, you should have had a shot, mate. Really? Instant, instant, just... Places bedlam. Just... good lad just there's something very specific that hits where an old guy an away an old guy in an away crowd they'll just every now and again they're just drop it in the time in man that's that has been that has been finessed he's probably been rocking out that line for 30 years and still gets a laugh i love that stuff i love that not quite the trumpet playing the funeral march it's so good it's so good isn't it it's iconic it was basically the same thing

51:42Musa Okwonga: belongs in documentary doesn't it belongs in documentary yeah so good because I think I think that was another another defeat in the early the early years alright man should we roll let's do it alright we're hoping we're staying safe and well wherever you are and don't forget if you want to sign up for Stadio on Patreon get all the shows ad free in full you support Stadio you can have access to the Stadio social club discord if you want to sign up as a social club member all of the good stuff patreon.com forward slash stadio any support is much appreciated we're going to do one big champions league episode on Thursday and until then don't forget to check the stadio archless place on Spotify speaking of which playing out on Sunfear track called Steps anything you'd like to add to me nothing further everyone much love have a great week we will be back with you on Thursday see you then I undertow.

53:04I will be walking steps above length, Payton in

54:06Obvious

54:15Thank you.

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