Trophies, farewells and final days

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1:47Musa Okwonga: hello and welcome back to the stadio podcast i'm mr konga i'm ryan hun ryan how you doing doing all right thanks man how are you very well indeed yeah yeah yeah and it's a heat wave there's a heat wave it's also a pollen wave um i've never actually seen as much pollen as i've seen the last 48 hours wow landing on my eyelashes goodness me it's like an eye scrub out here but it's all good it's all good we move we hope everyone's staying safe and well wherever you

2:19Ryan Hunn: a quick bit of admin. This week we are going to do a big show that will go up Thursday. It's going to be a Conference League final episode but also we're going to talk about Pep Guardiola and Andoni Iraiola and we're going to be joined by Tifo's John McKenzie because he's written a book and it's related and he's a big Andoni Iraiola fan and we wanted to do a thing about Iraiola because the achievement that he has done at Bournemouth before leaving. I mean, getting them into Europe for the first time ever. And it's all related to John's book and John loves Iriola. So we thought we're going to do that.

3:00Ryan Hunn: So that will go up either as a big bumper episode with the Conference League on Thursday or we might split them and do a Conference League episode on Thursday and then put the episode with John up on Friday. So if you want to go and listen to that along with every single Stadio episode ad-free info go to patreon.com forward slash stadio also don't forget tickets for our london live show at the south bank center are available now the link is in the description we're going to be joined by nishkumar and it's the thursday after the world cup final so come and join us at the south bank center if you're in london also shout for our partnership with kickback soccer they've been running country specific pods ahead of the world cup first touch 26 country pods and Moussa was on recently and they'll also have an upcoming daily show during the World Cup.

3:48Ryan Hunn: So go to kickbacksoccer.com, go check them out. And I think that's all the admin. So today we're going to talk about it feels like there's loads of stuff to talk about today. So it might be a bit round-uppy. We're going to talk about the Premier League final day. We're going to talk about some cup finals, all kinds of stuff. and we're going to talk about the Women's Champions League final as well. And so I reckon we better get into it because there's loads to get through. Let's do it. But there is only one place to begin.

4:24Ryan Hunn: Or is there?

4:25Musa Okwonga: Is this the rare case of there's actually many places to begin? There are many places to begin at once. This is a multiverse podcast. We should do like multiple openings for this podcast and you can actually start wherever you like because any one place would be the perfect place to start, I think.

4:40Ryan Hunn: We are going to begin with the Women's Champions League final in Oslo. Barcelona 4, Lyon 0. Barcelona regaining the Champions League after defeat to Arsenal last season. Two goals for Pajor, two for Palo Aulo. And very, very convincing. It was interesting because the first half I thought was super balanced. Lyon were good. Lyon were good. They had the ball in the back of the net that was given offside. It was quite way offside. Yeah. and they had a couple of big moments, Leon. And then in the second half, Barca just,

5:15Musa Okwonga: they just ramped it up. I wonder if Leon were trying to keep it like that, force the pace because they knew what Barca had coming. And if you think of the time when they beat them in the final before, actually, Hagerberg, I think it was robbing Porteus and then hitting it top corner. I think it was that element of like smash and grab where you've got to hit them early because I think they knew they were under-resourced. I mean, I looked at this game and thought, my goodness, this was not the Barcelona that turned up last year. I think it was very different. It was a Barcelona that, the Barcelona last year kind of punched themselves out and then Arsenal took advantage.

5:50Musa Okwonga: This Barcelona started a bit more patiently. They didn't try to blow them away early on, which I think they've been maybe guilty of in previous Champions League finals. They started at a good pace. There was urgency, but there wasn't desperation. And that was good because it gave them room for a gear change when they needed it. And just the textbook performance. Botea is outstanding, of course, as you imagine. Patrick Gujaratou. But also Payal's movement was great up top. It's funny because Payal, I think, was carrying a bit of... I think there was some baggage in previous finals. Payal had lost, I think, five finals before.

6:28Ryan Hunn: You saw this in celebration, I think, for the first goal. Yeah, there was just a huge outpouring. she just like kind of just screamed yeah there were two elements it was almost like an exercise

6:38Musa Okwonga: of some demons the chance he snatches at for in the first half when she lobs and hits the side netting i was like you know someone we've both watched pile for years like pile doesn't miss those that that's when you're playing you know we talked before about a different context about playing the shirt and not playing the actual game that that felt like pile playing the moment not the actual and then again when she scores great finish by the way first touch is the one that makes it as classic sort of through ball. Gagiaro into feet in the second half, gets it out of her feet and the finish is amazing.

7:07Musa Okwonga: But you're right, that scream, that was like a primal, that was a primal scream actually. For, I mean, I don't know how many times she's been top scorer in this tournament, but has been a top three striker in Europe for what? Deadly. Yeah, unbelievable.

7:25Ryan Hunn: Yeah.

7:26Musa Okwonga: So Barcelona win their fourth Champions League in six. Yeah, amazing. Can I just say, and a quick shout as well, we mentioned Paraluelo earlier but just the Paraluelo banger the banger like

7:37Ryan Hunn: absolutely incredible and it was the perfect camera angle for it as well just the it was the cameras right behind it I think she knew the camera was there she's like no you're going to see this gold for the cameras

7:46Musa Okwonga: yeah yeah exactly

7:47Ryan Hunn: it's like the you know like the equivalent of the save one for the cameras that from the keeper yeah it's just the Victor Valdez dive it's like yeah

7:56Musa Okwonga: a couple more rolls yeah unbelievable yeah superb also quick shout for Catacol who made a couple of vital stops I think at 0-0 and 1-0 for Barcelona and you know Lyon weren't dangerous that often but they did get some good openings and she was brilliant on both occasions when she was called on so yeah shout for her as well

8:20Ryan Hunn: unfortunate for Jonathan Giraldas who was facing his former club first time can you imagine the look on his face first time ah so this is what it feels like yeah I mean he won two

8:32Musa Okwonga: as manager I think he's fine Leon were just outmatched I don't think I feel a bit sorry for them in terms of the score I know we'll say that I feel a bit sorry for them you know because they conceded two goals very late on I don't think it was the most unfair reflection of the balance of play but having got to like 90 minutes at 2-0 I think that's fine but 4-0 becomes demoralising

8:51Ryan Hunn: So congratulations to Barcelona worthy worthy winners of the Champions League

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9:36Ryan Hunn: Browse thousands of the world's leading podcasts, book host reads or run your own ads, and track every conversion in real time.

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9:54Ryan Hunn: Shall we go to the Premier League? Yes, let's do it. Because it was the final day. It was quite a few final days this weekend. Should we start with the Spurs and West Ham relegation?

10:03Musa Okwonga: Yes, we have to. Yeah, yeah. So Spurs host Everton and West Ham host Leeds and West Ham have to hope that Spurs slip up, the Spurs lose and they win. and I've got to say Spurs made pretty straightforward work of it pretty calm you know and actually you know it is I think what Spurs did the performances Spurs have been putting it in patches we've seen patches of play under Deserbi where they've looked vastly better and the one concern with Spurs was the fragility the key thing in this game was just not going goal behind I think if they went a goal behind then all the fear comes in all the nerves come then you start seeing like the anxiety the fear of the drop but that goal by palina could not have come a better time right before half time you see how much it meant to him i think it was fitting it was a second ball because palina is like he's the emperor of the second ball um so he gets the second ball thrashes it in um and thereafter it's pretty straightforward i thought everton didn't really get much joy in in the final third in the Spurs area.

11:11Musa Okwonga: The final five minutes

11:12Ryan Hunn: they felt like having a go, but before that

11:14Musa Okwonga: it was pretty, I mean look

11:16Ryan Hunn: you could see it from

11:18Musa Okwonga: the fans. The fans they were singing and they felt it, they were like no actually we're going to be okay and that is, you know, does Zerbi come in there and make a difference but that's also credit to the players for finding that in themselves. I mean again look, they should never have been in that position in the first place. Injuries or not the quality in that squad it should not have been anywhere near that place but yeah credit to Spurs it would have been just a horrifying summer for them if they'd gone down and to be honest with you I'm glad they didn't from the perspective of it could have just been nasty actually I didn't actually want that I didn't want that discourse actually I have to say I didn't want the discourse of Arsenal winning the league and Spurs going down on a selfish level

12:00Ryan Hunn: So West Ham are down despite their win over Leeds this is about to kick start a bit of a period at West Ham where I think there's going to be quite a lot of turnover. If they have like a decent and a stable summer I think they'll be back up. But I'm just a bit worried

12:14Musa Okwonga: about what this could look like. I mean you can see like looking at that starting lineup you can see four or five of those players just going. Like not that I want any of them to go I'm not saying that but like they have what you say what they say what do they call the NBA flippable assets. There's a good few players in that team. You know they're an age and a value I mean someone like depends if someone like Bowen hangs around it's a big deal if he hangs around but who knows just because of what he represents a talismanic figure but then in terms of age price profile you've got Fernandes and like Somerville

12:50Ryan Hunn: they spent a fair bit of money remember and I don't think they're going to be able to hang on to a lot of those players I don't think they can purely from a financial point of view but there was a someone pulled up a list on it was either on social media or I think it might it might have been a match of the day actually of just their signing since they won the conference league and how much they'd spent on these players and how many appearances they'd made and few of them were super successful and I just wonder about who within the club is positioned to take charge of that and and to kind of create a direction for that for them in order to be a little bit more sustainable going forward because I think they're going to have to have a huge rethink and rethink

13:33Musa Okwonga: in terms of policy you know what I have to say there's maybe something to think about it's a bit of a broader question what you do when you sold a talismanic player for a huge amount of money because if you think of when Spurs sold Bale when Barca sold Neymar and when they sold um Rice West Ham it's this problem where everyone knows you suddenly got this big pot of money and you've lost your talisman and none of those three situations went well none of those like peers who went out and bought a ton of players went well and i'm not saying it's impossible to like reinvest because we see brighton do it right like brighton is smart brighton don't go in like well they haven't bought some of the more recent business hasn't been the greatest but brighton's modeled pretty good at like sell high and then just die incrementally here and there based on good data and don't go out and just like blow huge amounts on immediate replacements and i just yeah the conference league business to see them go down having won a conference league title feels like a really damning indictment of the board level right because the conference league was meant to be a platform to build from now you can argue mitigating circumstances the pakitar thing absolute nightmare and that's a nightmare if you look at like rice rice and pakitar a key part of that side.

14:52Musa Okwonga: One was sold and one was lost to allegations that weren't held up in the end. So a bit of a nightmare actually all round. But yeah, I hope they can regroup in the championship. It's just that this is a lot harder than it needed to be actually for West Ham.

15:09Ryan Hunn: We talked about West Ham before and I think there's something with it's an easy thing to make but there's something about leaving Upton Park, moving into the London Stadium and what the London Stadium has almost now become to represent for the club. It's arbitros. I'm not kind of wanting to make this about Arsenal and me at the moment, but speaking as someone who, a fan of a club who left a really beloved ground, moved to a new place and it took a long, long time for that place to really feel like home. There needs to be something to kickstart the connectivity again between the fans and the club again, because I think that's just been eroded gradually over so many years now.

15:44Ryan Hunn: And I actually think that's going to be the biggest challenge in the summer. Because if they're smart, they can come straight back up. And it's a blip. If they're not, and they continue to drift in the manner that they've been drifting over the last... Since the Conference League, for sure, because they were in a position before that, especially under Moyes, where they looked really good. But they have been drifting. It's different, but it reminds me a little bit of when Haas Fah went down. This.

16:09Musa Okwonga: I thought we were going to say Hertha. Because Hertha with the stadium...

16:13Ryan Hunn: Well, do you know what? Hertha's probably a better option because Haas Fah are historically... But I think, yeah, actually I think Herter is a good call because a club that probably shouldn't be in the second tier, but is, and is now struggling to get out, but not even pushing for promotion, kind of drifting in the middle. Yeah, yeah. I really hope that West Ham do figure it out because there is nothing worse than seeing a club that you love fade. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I think the Conference League, like you mentioned, the Conference League should have been a real catalyst for a new era at West Ham.

16:51Ryan Hunn: Yes, they've moved out of Upton Park. Yes, they're in this new stadium. But they have this trophy, a really historic trophy, to pin the future on now. And it's just not been capitalised on. We talk about this quite a lot when you see clubs who really squander the opportunity that they create to kick forward. especially with the the wealth that the Premier League gives you you don't have to consistently challenge in order to be set up to build as we've seen multiple clubs do this season

17:18Musa Okwonga: I was talking to Spurs fan this weekend actually about the window the window under Poch he was like we needed two more players he was like at a specific point we just needed two more players here and here and then we could have kicked on and we didn't do it and he was like it's just bless him he was despairing shout out to Fergal in case he's listening to this um he was despairing because he was like we're not going to survive we're not going to stay up so at least for him there's some respite but for spur for west ham sorry i think it's so much has gone wrong at once i would say i would say and this is the positive the london stadium at certain points during the relegation fight sounded like it sounded really special.

18:04Ryan Hunn: Yeah, the fans really did their bit.

18:05Musa Okwonga: Yeah, they really did and I would say, you know, even in some of this game I think against Arsenal it was super loud. You know, the run they went on just before, I think the momentum killer was the 3-0 loss to Brentford. That was such, looking back at that, I mean, and look I know they're up against it, but they were flying, the 4-0 against the Wolves, the draw against Palace, okay, look, it's away at Palace, the win over Everton, they were flying in those games and then the 3-0. the 3-0 at Brentford, I think, because the momentum shift that went on, because all these relegation teams, they're characterised by one thing, whether they're trying to attack their way out of trouble or defend their way, it's the fragility, the emotional fragility.

18:45And I think the emotional fragility

18:47Musa Okwonga: that kicked in sort of after that, it's not even necessarily that result that was the worst. It was they didn't really look in command after that in a way that they were kind of starting to look like. I mean, the Wolves game, they just looked, they looked like a mid-table team, actually. Because the Wolves at that point were still, even though they were in a terrible position in the league, they were still pushing back pretty well against teams high at the table. But yeah, I hope they can figure it out. London Stadium at least maybe sounded like something. I like the parallel you draw with Upton Park to London Stadium and Hybride to Emirates, where you kind of have to make it your own.

19:24Musa Okwonga: I would hope that there were fans in the West Ham crowd feeling like there were points at the season where it felt like our own. now I know the ownership structure for the London stadium is completely different because they're renting it which is don't get me started I know it's unreal unreal yeah good luck West Ham good luck

19:43Ryan Hunn: so Spurs escaped did they really escaped and they've got a big summer ahead and they've got to start pretty well under De Zerbi next season because the thing that I'm from a Spurs point of view if it doesn't go well and it's not going well by like October it's just start seeing a different side of Deserby yeah yeah big summer this is what he does big window transfer window coming up they've got a lot of stuff to figure out but if that board doesn't realise how much of how much they've got away with one this season then they never will

20:20Musa Okwonga: and they'll be in big trouble again they'll be in big trouble again like really because one thing that's clear when the board and the manager and the players are not aligned in a league this competitive, those multiple stress fractures will lead to catastrophe again. They just will. Because you're just playing teams, you're playing against teams with either way more resources than you, where teams like, they can have a poor alignment at board level because they've just got players who are so talented, they'll run hot for 20 minutes a game and that will keep you up. That will keep you like lower mid table, right?

20:53Musa Okwonga: We've seen that this year already with clubs you shall not mention. So if you're not aligned in any way, and you don't have the star power to get you out of trouble, then good luck, quite frankly. And frankly, if they don't sort it, they'll be like lower mid-table in trouble again. No question. So yeah, big summer for the board.

21:16Ryan Hunn: Before we touch on Arsenal lifting the trophy, do you want to... Sunderland. Let's talk about Sunderland quickly and the European spot. Sunderland, first time in 53 years, Sunderland are in Europe. That's incredible.

21:29Musa Okwonga: ball is that what is that the what the FA Cup it would be yeah imagine yeah 73 is it oh my goodness it's the FA Cup yeah yeah this is an astonishing achievement in a league this competitive they finished seventh they finished above Newcastle they're in the Europa League I mean it's it's quite wild I I can only I cannot imagine the chat I cannot imagine the memes that will be flying. You know, going to like local airports who are going, oh, domestic flight, is it? Sunderland fans flying overseas for the European ties. Wow, that's an incredible, incredible achievement and congratulations to everyone over there.

22:16Musa Okwonga: Loved the Trihume goal, the opener. It really, I think it was a fitting goal to get them started against Chelsea because really symptomatic of some of the football they played this season. they played some great stuff and there was a funny moment where early in the season we're like a Sunderland like top 8 and now we don't even question it well at one point

22:37Ryan Hunn: they were pushing for Champions League do you remember and everyone was like oh my god and they had they have the best home record for the first half of the Premier League season or something like that early on in the season I remember Arsenal going there and the two-all draw and it just being just an absolute

22:50Musa Okwonga: struggle I'm glad they didn't go Champions League only because I didn't want to have the Union Berlin problem

22:55Ryan Hunn: yeah well this is interesting because I think what Sunderland have done this season I think is a model that a lot of clubs are going to try and imitate now. Big loan signings, big signings from some key experienced players around Europe. If you look at the players they brought in this season and the places that they came from like Ajax and Atleti and Leverkusen, people who have won trophies, people who had been challenging for trophies big big clubs and I think this is a really interesting thing with the Premier League now because it is so wealthy and there is a real cluster of talent there which we've talked about at length this season if you nail your transfer strategy in the first year that you come up you can in theory put together a squad that could push for Europe and then if you get that over the line straight away the extra income that that bring in then if you manage it right sets you up to become a super established Premier League club quite quickly you'd also have the other problem it's the private equity model yeah yeah yeah basically I mean I think that we are entering an era where you can finish fifth one season and 15th the next and it shouldn't be too much of a surprise now without that much difference in performance without that much difference yeah I think that's where the league is going but the job that LeBreeze has done this season has been amazing.

24:24Musa Okwonga: And he gets criticism for the high intensity that he puts into his players but I think you need that I think in a league where you have that level of quality the way that you make it up is like attacking defensive intensity it's very much an Atleti thing, if you don't have quite the quality of the teams above you then you can make up with the effort. I suppose for Sunderland quite a resilient team didn't concede many this year only 48 but the key thing is the goals and this is why I make the comparison with Union Berlin right I worried about them getting to the Champions League only because not that I thought they necessarily would but because when Union got into the Champions League the quality player you're able to sign goes up or the name of player more crucially you're able to sign goes up and then you lose your identity and I was worried that might happen because you get really overextended you're not going to win the Champions League so you basically got a bunch of games where it's kind of like You're a bit of a punching bag for teams with many more resources.

25:19Musa Okwonga: So look, the away fans get, your fans get a great time of it, but as a club, get overstretched. I feel the Europa League is a much more manageable tournament because Sunderland with a couple of additions could swing a couple of surprises, could make a quarterfinal run. You don't know. They've got the quality to do that.

25:37Ryan Hunn: I think any Premier League team now that makes it into European competition is going to go far. I mean, you might be on court. if Palace beat Ryo Viacano and it's weird that final to me is so weird and kind of symptomatic of the times yeah for sure because you have what should be an unbelievable thing for Palace being like oh my god Crystal Palace they won their first major trophy last season they're into their first European campaign they're in the final and they might win their first European trophy that is unbelievable and then you look at Ryo and actually Ryo were very much taking up the position that Palace sometimes operate.

26:16Musa Okwonga: Yeah. Can I just have a quick thing? I want to throw in some stats because you mentioned Palace and as you mentioned them, I thought I'd throw these numbers in because they're pretty wild. So Sunderland scored 42 and conceded 48 and finished 7th. Palace scored 41, conceded 51 and finished 15th. I mean, those margins are so small. I suppose also what I'm saying there is Crystal Palace and Sunderland really need goals next year. They really need to find some goals summer because the own teams that scored fewer than them were Bernie and Wolves. Like again, not easy. Again, I'm not saying it's easy to find those goal scorers, but in terms of like looking for strikers, with the league being as tight as it is.

26:54Musa Okwonga: And again, this is the thing. We don't know what Premier League is going to be next year because it changed what, I think at one point of the season, XG had dropped from open play by like 25%, close to 25%, like at some point of the season, like it just actually fell off a cliff. and I don't know again we do from from league to league it must be so hard to plan as a manager because you don't know what the league's going to offer you so maybe even the play that people are working off this year won't work and I think this is the thing actually if you look at this is a complete hot take and I'll never be able to check in with managers because they'll probably won't tell you but I wonder if the managers that started slow prepared for a league that didn't exist.

27:34Musa Okwonga: And so the adjustments they're making, so Iriola and Emery, right? They're two of the people that I really like. They finished really strong. And they're also coincidentally two of the managers that are all about preparation and who don't have a huge amount of resources. Well, Villa have money, but they didn't spend a wild amount like this summer. So imagine this, Iriola and Emery are preparing for the league and the league starts and it's like, it's actually like not that at all. And of course, because they're smart, they figure it out. Does that make sense?

28:00Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I think this is one of the reasons why Arsenal won the league is that at full strength and especially before Christmas when did we talk was it December mid-December when we said it felt like Arsenal were the only team in the league that could actually control games and at that point that was true because it felt like Arsenal could play any they were super adaptable

28:25Musa Okwonga: I described it as a procession at one point

28:27Ryan Hunn: which is why I think they were doing so well because it didn't you know they can play in transition they can play possession they can just dig deep they can the thing about the red cards i know they've got a bit lucky with some red card decisions especially in the last month maybe but the penalty i think you know they didn't concede a penalty in the league this season um i don't think that's i don't think that's actually a fluke though i think that's just i think that's because they've just managed to keep people away from their own from their goal to such a degree that they've not been in positions where they've been needing to do that desperate I mean there's always luck involved right you could get a handball you could accidentally clip someone there's no doubt been probably one or two decisions that could have gone that way but

29:10Musa Okwonga: think of the seasons where red cards too have cost Arsenal

29:13Ryan Hunn: yeah well it was just last season it was just another thing that Antetor tried to yeah tried to get rid of we'll talk about Arsenal in a sec but back on but going back to what you're saying I think that's why you've sometimes seen you know you've seen people like like Bournemouth and we will talk about this more with John later in the week but they've gone unbeaten in the second half of the season Astonishing Astonishing To finish in Europe for the first time and that is with the departures of some unbelievably talented players They lost Semenya and they got better

29:47Musa Okwonga: They lost Semenya and they got better

29:49Ryan Hunn: Housen and Zabani last summer as well

29:51Musa Okwonga: They did buy Ryan from Vasco da Gama like in January and they knew I mean it's not like they're buying clowns but still that's incredible to adapt to bring in Ryan like that him to adapt Alex Scott was lights out brilliant this year I think England have so much depth at the centre midfield position that he doesn't go to the World Cup but that is like he was he was spectacular in the late stages of this of this season he just really came into it um I know there's a lot about Wharton as an understudy for Elliot Anderson. But I think Scott... I think Wharton should have gone. I think Scott's right there.

30:30Musa Okwonga: I think so too. I think so too. I mean, that's for sure. It's a different conversation, but Thomas Duckel absolutely wants to win this World Cup. That is not a side that you... That is a side that you pick. That's a squad you pick. If in your mind, you're stripping away all the excess.

30:45Ryan Hunn: I thought back to the first episode we did when he got the job. And I think we were kind of pissing ourselves a little bit because we were just like, he's not going to give a shit about the press. Yeah. You know, he's not going to really care about... When I saw the squad, the England squad, for the first time, genuinely for the first time, I was like, that's what we're talking about. He's ready just to be like, ask me your questions. I'm ready.

31:09Musa Okwonga: Do you know what I think is interesting as well with that? And we'll get back to Sunderland and Bournemouth in a sec, just to give them the props before we go to the next section. Tuchel and that England squad for the World Cup. it's very interesting because there's a lot of campaigning around particular players to go talk about Trent, talk about Cole Palmer, talk about Phil Foden as players that can give you moments in big tournaments okay here's the thing though right moments, how do I say this best teams that have won tournaments recently have not got by on moments they haven't Spain played football from start to finish from start to finish.

31:49Musa Okwonga: You can argue that Italy did actually in the Euros and Spain who they were unlucky. I think Spain were brilliant. I thought they were the best team in the previous Euros. It's funny because I thought, I thought Germany the best team in the Euros this time and they go out to Spain. I thought that actually Spain were the best team in the Euros before and they went out to Italy. But generally speaking, picking squads where you've got like players in there for moments over players that have had like really good seasons and developed consistently, delivered consistently in the system, the style that Tuchel wants, that does not get you over the line.

32:21Musa Okwonga: It just doesn't. It's good for tabloid writers. It's good for journalists who are emotionally invested in players going to the tournament, but it's not good for the actual squad. It's not good for the group because it creates all the wrong incentive structures. You're there so you can just do something fancy. No, it's not. That's a terrible incentive. Actually, it's very, very demotivating. I saw people criticizing the inclusion of certain players but I'm like look either those players have delivered for Tuchel at the international level or they've delivered for Southgate and they've been doing it for the last like they they're one of the three columns or all three of the columns I mean I don't think there was enough talk about Marcus Rashford and his development under Hansi Flick and Rashford has had quite a streaky season but he finished really strong and you can see how much he's loved and I think it's so strange there's so much emphasis on players being left out as opposed to what the players included had actually been doing, including last but not least, Harry Kane, who we'll come to later in this episode, who is like, that's your world cup winner.

33:22Musa Okwonga: That's your deep line playmaker. That is your ruthless forward. That is your second striker. That is your extra midfielder. Harry Kane is right there. Like, Tuchel watches more football than any of us, than any of us, including people that annoyed that their favourite players didn't go to the tournament anyway just very quickly on Sonnen and Bournemouth and Brighton absolutely and I'm delighted for Sonnen and Bournemouth fans in particular because Brighton fans have had a real taste of this more recently and listen kudos for them for finishing so strong and Herzl looks like he's stronger than they're in that position but I just want to say one more time he's turned it around he's turned it around Sonnen and Bournemouth just last say up I'm just so happy for the fans and the club because I just I envy all the great memories that are going to come because it's it's always more special the first time but yeah and Brighton as well Herzl turning it around in style dude he pulled it out

34:18Ryan Hunn: despite losing to Manchester United because Bremford couldn't capitalize yeah Bremford pushing for Europe is always Premier League Premier League is so wild we need to talk about some goodbyes yes there's some goodbyes at Liverpool Andy Robertson Mo Salo said goodbye we might do something a little more on Liverpool. But we're going to do like a bit of a end of season thought. So we might do a little more on Liverpool. But very sad, obviously, when you see two ledgers of the club depart. I feel like the time's right though, I think. It's so funny how it feels

34:57Musa Okwonga: like end of an era at like Liverpool and Man City. I know, it's weird. Isn't it wild?

35:00Ryan Hunn: The City thing, I'm intrigued in because it felt... It's huge. It felt very big actually. It's huge.

35:08Musa Okwonga: It's huge, man. Like, obviously, like, just the headline of this is, huge goodbyes this year, sorry, this weekend. Carvalho and Alaba at Real Madrid. Liverpool, obviously, Robertson and Salah and City, the biggest of all, Pep Guardiola, Bernardo Silva going out the door, and John Stones as well. Just on Liverpool, we'll do something else, think on them at some point, because I think there's a bigger conversation about the season they've had. And Andy Robertson came out just this week with an interview about losing Jota and his brother and what that meant because obviously Robertson knew them both, right?

35:42Musa Okwonga: Yeah, it was a good chat with Ian, he did, yeah. Yeah, fantastic that, just to sort of give the context of the season. So we'll talk about Liverpool more, but in terms of City, Pep's goodbye, I want to just say this, and we'll talk more about Pep obviously later this week, but the way that Pep said goodbye and the connection he clearly had with the fans, I thought to myself, you know this, anywhere Pep had gone, he would have given them 10 incredible years. Pep Guardiola is that much of a, he's a genius, he's a singular talent. If he'd gone to any well-resourced club, if he'd gone to, if he'd gone to Villa, it would have been the same.

36:17Musa Okwonga: The emotion, the crowd, the bond, like, City were so lucky to have got him. To have got, no, I'm not saying he would have won as much, I'm not saying that, but I'm saying that like. No, no, I'm just saying,

36:26Ryan Hunn: I'm not sure, I think he would have given them some good years, I don't think he would have given anyone else 10 years.

36:31Musa Okwonga: No, I don't think, I think the resources helped, I think, and it's funny to see Pep in the conference the press conference afterwards referring to this as the best experience of his career and he's like that's why I stayed 10 years which I thought was really interesting actually because Pep for the most part you know he was he got criticism but he was if you think of the criticism you get compared to the type you get at any other club of equivalent visibility and wealth it's incomparable.

37:02Ryan Hunn: Yeah but I think if you go from Barca which you know he he came out and said that it burnt him out Barca and then Bayern can't have been much easier he went he got to Bayern after Hainkers has won the treble and with that board as well yeah and you and you you develop them into something unbelievable Bayern but he couldn't get them over the line in the Champions League and his time at Bayern is very fondly remembered I think because it's some of the football he had them playing was just stratospheric however we've talked about how difficult it can be to be the Bayern manager and I think three years was enough for him really because it's kind of a bit like, yeah, Bayern are very much like we're Bayern, you know, where they don't really have a huge, they do obviously respect other clubs, but in terms of, you know, they're like, they're Bayern.

37:44Ryan Hunn: The early Harness quote from this week about Harry Kane and his contract extension and talks about him going to Barcelona and he was just like, Barcelona don't have any money anyway. It's just, that's the, that's the kind of energy around Bayern, right? Whereas City, we talked about this before, but City put everything in place they literally build infrastructure in order to get ready for pep's arrival and also he is someone who they have been going after four years and they want they've never had you know if you in the modern day equivalent as as successful as pellegrini and mancini were everyone wanted pep like literally every single club and every single international side in the world probably would have taken Pep if he'd said hey I want to manage your side they would have got rid of whoever was managing them at the time bar very few exceptions so Pep going to City was the final piece in the plan you know to get a figurehead like that in there I don't think he gets this anywhere else not PSG not anywhere else really I agree I completely agree yeah that's absolutely right yes I think it was um I mean think about it look at the players who've come

38:56Musa Okwonga: through none of them none of them are like they clock on and they clock off kevin de bruyne bernardo silver david silver barely gave i don't think gave an interview when he was a major interview and he was in the country until he left um ilkay gundawan these are smart like smart quiet people that just don't this is there's so little noise there was so little noise from the dressing room so little noise because they had not had a generation of greats like that And to be honest, even the City players, they've gone on, those guys are not going to be pundits, right? They've made, they don't, I don't think they have the temperament for it.

39:32Musa Okwonga: And also they just, they made enough money. They don't need to be sitting in TV studios, like for any period of time. So really he's been given the optimal conditions in which to work. And of course, look, the charges are right there. I don't know what the Premier League's going to do about those, but they created a rod for their own backs because Pep came and went. And there were no significant sanctions on Manchester City. which is I think there's going to be some relief at some level because I think that Pep leaving makes the Premier League a margin more competitive it is not look he lost the last few leagues Pep lost the last few leagues that's interesting I think that's quite interesting and I think I'm not saying that his powers were fading it's more a question that the rebuild he lost so many players I think in that one go pivotal players in that spot in that squad and there wasn't that much renewal I wonder if maybe there was an element of not renewing all those players because Pep by that point was so powerful that there may be players in the book maybe the board wanted to flip people that they actually well Pep's done so well with them let's keep them a bit longer and not and not like flip them as he would have done maybe earlier in his tenure because he's got so much leverage now I think Pep leaving allows City to freshen up that squad but we'll see what the charges say and we'll see how Mureska does there's those things those are two big unknowns and look as good as Moreska is he is he's a rung he's a clear rung below Pep Guardiola

41:00Ryan Hunn: I think this is one of the most interesting I think it's extremely interesting things about the next season because

41:09Ryan Hunn: I mean I don't know enough about he seems quite popular at Manchester City Moreska because of his time there with Pep but you just never know and you know Manchester City won titles before Pep arrived you know they won two titles before he he arrived but still we're kind of going into unknown territory here totally and I think we're you know we're going to have plenty of time to talk about we're going to talk about it with John actually more on the show that's going to go up on Thursday but I think that um I'm not entirely sure that you, you know, because I think, for example, I think a lot of people go to a club like Manchester City because they want to play for Pep as well, you know?

42:00Ryan Hunn: And I think Holland is probably a, more of a unique case because of his dad playing for the club and having that connection. I think now, I'm just interested to see like who they get in the summer, who, if players have a choice between Manchester City and maybe another couple of options whereas the pep factor would nudge it more into players like that picking Manchester City I'm just intrigued to see

42:29Musa Okwonga: The two big rockstar managers have basically left football Luis Enrique doesn't have quite as amazing as he is, I think he's still a little underrated he doesn't have the rockstar status of not that he's not as good but Klopp and Guardiola actually had that like talismanic and they've now gone. Like Pep's going to take quite a bit of time off. So for the first time in a while, and I think Arteta, weirdly, I think he's going to emerge as more of that kind of manager. Not in his, I do. I'll tell you why. I think there's some stuff that's, The Declan Rice interview, yeah, the Declan Rice, yeah, the Declan Rice interview with Sky Sports and him and Osaka talking to Sky about like, it will come out like in terms of how he motivated us.

43:14Musa Okwonga: And I think as that stuff gets out, you know, how he motivates players, how he gets them going. And Declan, I said like his plan, everything he said when I came to Arsenal, everything he told me would happen has happened. Like he has such a plan. I was so convinced coming out of that conversation about the vision. When stuff like that gets around, it's fascinating, isn't it? Pep's legacy is kind of Arteta's part of it. And you wonder now what Pep saw in him. and we've said this a thousand times in this podcast you can see why Pep was so angry when he left because Pep knew he would have a big problem yeah he'd have a big problem yeah and this guy's now beaten him in the league the last two finishes think about this Mikhail Teta outcoached Pep Guardiola in two consecutive league seasons league seasons like that's an incredible I think he's the only manager to finish above Pep twice and he did it twice back to back it's incredible actually like we don't people roll their eyes at this it's not an Arsenal podcast but we don't actually talk about that enough I think we will do though I think we will do I think we will do I think we will do I think we will do

44:22Ryan Hunn: there's a hopefully there's a Champions League final coming up Arsenal season isn't done it could be it's not done it could be even wilder this season and if that's the case or even not you know we've got time for a big Arsenal debrief at that point but they did lift the trophy they did which was lovely scenes at Palace the game itself felt like such a fun game because everyone was just in party mode you know

44:58Musa Okwonga: it was a vibe wasn't it Dalman's starting at the 10 I'd love to see it is he on half term

45:03Ryan Hunn: now I think he's on half term or has he finished his GCSEs

45:07Musa Okwonga: lovely trophy lift a goodbye from Glasner yeah Oli Glasner just spreading joy over he goes Ismail Assar into the Conference League final he's had a great few years I was talking about this in the chat actually Ismail Assar two AFCONs and an FA Cup and maybe a Conference League hell of a haul incredible incredible run

45:26Ryan Hunn: I enjoyed Glasner talking about how he will always be a South Londoner

45:29Musa Okwonga: I love that

45:30Ryan Hunn: just great and it's you know what man I mean I'm really really pleased to see the era that they're in And I really hope that they can continue it, whoever comes in. Because if they get in the Europa League, they should have been in the Europa League this season, let's be real. They were really hard done by not getting into it and being pushed into the Conference League. If they win the Conference League and go into the Europa League next season, first of all, Glasner's going to be left as an all-time great. I think he already is because of winning the trophy last season. That's an amazing achievement, man.

45:59Ryan Hunn: If you look at some of the people who have managed that football club in the last decade or so, especially, none of them could do what he's done.

46:06Musa Okwonga: And he does it. I've got to say, it's fair to say, he does it everywhere he goes. Everywhere. The one thing I'll say is about Glasner, obviously the back three is his preference, but anyone with a vacancy, any club with a vacancy, or an upcoming vacancy, shall I say, because I think there's going to be a couple of vacancies in the summer, would have to give his agent a call. That's a serious, serious talent to be on the market.

46:31Ryan Hunn: Where's he going to go?

46:32Musa Okwonga: I have no idea. No idea.

46:34Ryan Hunn: Can I just talk about Ian Wright for a second? because there was a really, really lovely moment that kind of got me. He was on Sky and the first two people who came over for interviews were Martin Erdogan, obviously captain, and then Mikel Arteta, captain of the club, managed the club, won the Premier League. Three guys who wore the number eight shirt for Arsenal in different generations and all won stuff there. And it was just something...

46:59Musa Okwonga: Passing of the torch. It just felt like,

47:00Ryan Hunn: it was like Ian and Erdogan chatting, both wore number eight. Arteta comes up and the success that those three and the joy that those three collectively have brought the club. And Arteta in different areas, you know, like the first, he capped in the club and now I think he's the first, Mancini was on loan, but he's the first permanent Premier League player to then go on and win the title as a manager.

47:24Musa Okwonga: No way. Well, the thing about the three eights, it's mentioned because they're three different generations of Arsenal and I think there's something, their journeys are so different. So Arteta is, he's interesting for other reasons and we'll get to those in a sec, but Martin Odegaard very quickly, there's something about this team winning that they achieved their destiny and at some point people thought they wouldn't. If you look at Kai Havertz, child prodigy coming out of Germany, Martin Odegaard, child prodigy, and it was like, well, are they, they've had these mid-career, not dips, but yeah, actually, no, let's be honest, dips, where you were like, are they going to get it done?

48:02Musa Okwonga: And the odyssey they've been on, the journey they've been on, The Odyssey. The journey they've been on. You need to stop that. Listen, leave it in there. Leave it in there. It's outrageous. The journey they've been on, and now they can say they're Premier League winners, and not just that, they were integral. They were integral. If you watch what Ode Gord did, Martin Ode Gord did against West Ham, like in the crucial moments to just unravel that defense. Yeah, he had a tough season, but he really, really peaked when it mattered. he really peaked when it matters I think a lot of people did they did

48:37Ryan Hunn: there was a lot of a lot of people contributed to the win this season it's Pep

48:42Musa Okwonga: it's Pep you're trying to beat Pep with Gay and Semenyo yeah and Elling Haaland you're they won't look when people look at the squad put it this way let me just put this in context when people look at the Man City squad this season they will not believe there was a team that finished above them a Ballon d 'Or winner, maybe a future Ballon d 'Or winner, maybe at least one or two future Ballon d 'Or winners, and then players that's not making up the bench that in previous years were like the best players in the country, they will look at the Man City squad and they will not believe that there was a team that beat them.

49:21Musa Okwonga: That is how good Arsenal had to be this year. And I know I keep saying it because it can't be said enough. But on Palace, best of luck to them in the Conference League.

49:34Ryan Hunn: Hey, sweetie. Your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car. I'm going to give it a try. Wish me luck. Me again. I put in the license plate. It gave me an offer. Unbelievable. Okay. I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check. Anyway, Carvana. Give it a whirl. Love ya.

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50:44Musa Okwonga: But talking of cups, talking of lifting trophies, let's go next to Germany and the Polkow and Bayern against Stuttgart and Harry Kane. He's got an actual hat trick. A proper German hat trick. this thank you for saying this because I was watching I was feeling like is it just me of course it's never just me because I'm in Germany it's not a dryer pack

51:03Ryan Hunn: this time it's an actual hat trick

51:05Musa Okwonga: actual hat trick which for those who don't know is you have to score all three goals in the same half uninterrupted that's the German hat it's uninterrupted yeah even wow I didn't know it was uninterrupted yeah that's a proper wow do you know I love I love the strictness of that

51:26Ryan Hunn: to officially qualify a player must score three uninterrupted goals consecutively with all three occurring in the exact same half of the football match.

51:36Musa Okwonga: And what a hat-trick it was because Stuttgart gave a good account themselves in that first half and the second half it was just Bayern opened up on them. Belisa with a great cross for the header. Great header by Kane. And the movement again. I don't know how often he's caught offside Harry Kane but I suspect his movement is some of the best his movement was so good for this first goal to finish the header and the second goal of course the pick of the lot because he hit the bar from like the second goal was so good he didn't he didn't even do his normal celebration see that it was wild second goal so he hits the bar with an incredible curler and then one of the things I love about Kane the way he recycles the ball after the first he does in the Champions League as well the way that he recycles the ball he did this against Real Madrid he recycles the ball after he's made an initial effort he doesn't just slash at it it's actually very much like a point guard in basketball you pass up a good look for a great look so he rotates it plays it around lets the attack regroup and the pirouette he does the turn taking it with the left and the finish with the right 2-0 good night scores a penalty for the third but the second goal doesn't do the normal Harry Kane celebration jumping up and pumping his fist he does that massive and it's like a bear hug from like 20 players.

52:54Musa Okwonga: There was a lot of bench clearing actually. So good. Yeah.

52:57Ryan Hunn: So good, man. You could also barely see that goal because a load of flares had been let off in the stadium and it was so foggy. Yeah, all the protests, yeah. Can you imagine poor Alexander Neubel against his former club just seeing Harry Kane's shot rain down like through the fog but like, ah! And then all of a sudden you think he got out of trouble and then he's like, oh my God, he's there. How is he there? He's like, you know when someone spawns into like an online. Yeah, the demon just pops out of nowhere. And they've never played with him before and the stress of someone who's making their online like Call of Duty debut or something it's really stressful that's what I imagine playing in goal for that's what I imagine Alexander Newell was experiencing in the second half Harry Kane just spawning

53:37Musa Okwonga: spawning in the final third yeah

53:39Ryan Hunn: he's just respawned on the penalty box he was over there a minute ago

53:43Musa Okwonga: 61 goals this season it's incredible man 61 it's incredible unbelievable I mean if we're really just talking about who has played to the highest level this year. There's nobody beyond him. There's no one beyond him. If it's just on what he has done on the field, regardless of accolades and whatever, even though he's got a couple of those already, obviously a League and Cup double, Harry Kane this year has just been, he's been clear. It's extraordinary.

54:14Ryan Hunn: Just an unbelievable season. Yeah. Speaking of cups, Lons won their first ever Coupe de France on the weekend being Nice in the final. They look great too. Tovan with the opener.

54:28Musa Okwonga: The Tovan celebration. Are you not entertained? What a journey. Unlucky not to be on the plane as well because France attackers are so good for the World Cup. Still only 33. I know. The technique. Anyone, look, at any level of football, when someone receives the ball with the first touch is to roll the studs over it. You're in trouble. You're in trouble. Yeah,

54:55Ryan Hunn: it's a level of it's a level of flex where I'm just I'm not like familiar with you know what I mean

55:00Musa Okwonga: it's very Tovan coded it's very Tovan coded but congratulations to Lanz and just something to show some silverware to show for a great season

55:11Ryan Hunn: we also need to shout out Como who made it into the Champions League yeah

55:16Musa Okwonga: Creminezzi beat Creminezzi 4-1

55:18Ryan Hunn: absolutely chaotic final day in Serie A because the Turin derby was delayed because of Juve. Juve ultras were protesting because there was a, I think a Juve fan was hospitalised in the build-up because of some clashes. And then because of the Komo result in the end, it was a bit of a, it ended up to all the derby, but it played out in a bit of a weird vibe because Juve couldn't qualify for the Champions League because Komo had already won. Milan slipped up as well, losing 2-1 at home to Cali but they're in the Europa League which is I think not a wild surprise they've been really yeah since the turn of the year yeah yeah but still I still think Europa League should be an absolute minimum requirement for Milan

56:02Musa Okwonga: no I agree I agree someone was like oh a shock result at Cali and I was like was it really not this Milan yeah Milan lost three of the last four of the season to be honest for the turn of the year they've been poor yeah not been great

56:15Ryan Hunn: since we went to see them actually yes I think it's our fault

56:18Musa Okwonga: the signs were there though even that

56:21Ryan Hunn: weird room where they just kept drawing games but also Roma's form picking up towards the end of the season they finished so strongly they just went on that march and there was only four points separating Roma in third Juve in sixth Daniel Marlon ran hot didn't he did it again

56:38Musa Okwonga: yesterday

56:38Ryan Hunn: Daniel Marlon going to Roma as a nine is such a Moussa Okwonga stadio-ism I can't believe that has actually happened

56:48Musa Okwonga: you're angry that it worked because now you're going to have to hear about it incredible though from Roma Champions League like you said third place I mean it's incredible from

56:57Ryan Hunn: Como really I know that you know ownership or whatever but like Cesc's job and the football that they've been playing there has been wild man wild unbelievable for Cesc and he's I mean man he's it's all aligning for Cesc to be the next big coach isn't it yeah it is it is because he's almost like the next gen

57:19Musa Okwonga: he's the next generation after like Iriola and all that lot right I would like to see some more deep dimes like documentary style and like what he's been doing over there obviously there's articles or some things but that guy is just can you imagine if it came out it was just like behind

57:31Ryan Hunn: the scenes of Cesc Fabregas's successful champions league qualification campaign for Como and it's just finished training goes and sits in a boat on the lake just watching highlights on his iPad love it and I can imagine it I can see it the key to a successful campaign is actually maximum and relaxation the power of now yeah but yeah man so Inter Napoli Roma and Como qualify for the Champions League from Serie A Antonio Conte meanwhile confirmed his departure from Napoli just as it was announced that there's also reports of a US backed consortium attempting to take over the club or to purchase the club so big stuff going on at Napoli I wonder where Conte goes next I do i i there's imagine if he rocks up a palace next season newcastle do you know what newcastle's

58:27Musa Okwonga: not new content do you know what yeah content newcastle because it depends it depends what the investment strategy is it depends if because we're seeing like i know someone say that you Newcastle not owned by state but come on everyone um with state investment being pulled out of sport across various sports I wonder if Newcastle can be part of that trend um but I think Conte to Newcastle with his skill set I think that is the type of appointment that could work actually again will he get the resources but I think it could be interesting could be interesting I

59:09Ryan Hunn: I wonder who is going to take over at Napoli because I was thinking is this where Iriola goes I'm not sure doesn't feel doesn't feel super duper right to me no I know that there's been a big there's been a lot of rumours that Marco Silva is going to take over at Benfica oh that'd be a great that'd be a great look for him so there's I think there's going to be a real in the next couple of weeks this is going to be so much managerial stuff going on.

59:39Musa Okwonga: So interesting.

59:40Ryan Hunn: So interesting. Conte said, it was my decision, I told the chairman a few weeks ago, Napoli will always be home. When asked, this is from a BBC article, when asked if he could become the new manager of the Italian national team, Conte said, my advice would be to hire Pep Guardiola. Pep's just like, guys, leave me alone. Can you imagine the stress of waking up

1:00:01Musa Okwonga: for the next three, four years and Pep is like taking a break from football thinking Peppa's out there and it's possible that Batman went quiet. Yeah, it's terrifying.

1:00:13Ryan Hunn: Just a load of Pep copycats knocking about and then Pep comes out and he's just like, why can't I be like you? And he's just like, you don't have enough zips on your pants.

1:00:31Ryan Hunn: Your hood isn't turned inside out.

1:00:36Ryan Hunn: go running for cover what makes you so different from me i have a t-shirt with a giant p on it

1:00:45Musa Okwonga: he really leaned into the bit by the end didn't he he really committed to the bit he did did you see this his last sentence in his speech was it was effing fun they bleeps it out yeah there was

1:00:57Ryan Hunn: actually there was something interesting i know we're talking well we'll touch more on some managerial stuff in the future especially with Conte's departure and stuff but there was something interesting that Pep Pep said in the press conference afterwards where he said I'm not I think he said something like I'm paraphrasing but he was like I'm not going to miss it for a while or it's going to take a long time for me to miss it which just he looked knackered to be honest

1:01:20Musa Okwonga: Can I be honest with you I really want it's the podcast we'll never hear but him just hanging out with Klopp and just like getting some food in the south of France. Because you know that's going to happen at some point. You know, it's going to be like, join me on the boat. Come over here, the boat will pick you up at such and such and we'll just like, let's go through the Mediterranean.

1:01:41Ryan Hunn: Steve Coogan, Rob Brydon travel show that they did.

1:01:44Musa Okwonga: Just give it a pep and clop. Those two, those two just like hang out, grabbing a meal and just talking about like, can you imagine? They've just gone fishing, pep and clop gone fishing. Gone golfing. and then Pep eventually taking I can see it Pep eventually takes the national team job and then Carlo sends Klopp and Wenger like a text and goes I knew it my money please I told you he's seen the light he's seen me enjoying it the national team job is the way to go which managers he catch up with first is the question which ex-managers he catch up with first I think he makes it with Klopp I think it's Klopp isn't it yeah okay so what next

1:02:24Ryan Hunn: what do you think he does next so he's going into this ambassadorial role within Manchester the city for a bit which is just one of those like yeah you know if you need me call me no matter where you are etc i could imagine him managing england one day maybe it's just not maybe he's fine like he's he's made so much money and he's you know he's been it's been intense like i think it's been like it's been an all-time intense run the heads you know i gotta say that period last year when the scratch marks appearing on his head i know that he's had all of the tools right but still you get everyone's best shot bar that one year it's been what 18 years that's like that's intense man that's in that's intense where every week people know you are the best manager in the

1:03:11Musa Okwonga: world even when you lose you're the best manager in the world and when you lose it gets put down to your over experimentation because it's like there could be no other reason you lost other than the other person just coached better there's always a reason yeah anyway we should save that for

1:03:24Ryan Hunn: the chat with John I think because we're going to remember but on

1:03:27Musa Okwonga: on cups let's go to Portugal very quickly unbelievable amazing amazing Torriente beating sporting in the in the Portuguese cup final they hadn't won since well they'd never won this trophy never won they'd won two trophies but they were like sort of second and third division so this is the first top flight trophy that they've won and they're in the

1:03:52Ryan Hunn: second tier

1:03:53Musa Okwonga: incredible incredible they're in a playoff to go up to the first division if they don't win that their second legs in a couple of days they don't win that and they go into the europe league anyway as a second division team that's so cool i'm here for that i'm totally here for that yeah they went a goal up um sporting put one back and then they got a penalty with eight minutes to go of extra time and then threw on goal in injury to in the final seconds of like uh because the keeper comes up Sporting keeper goes up for the corner and their striker puts it wide collapses to the turf but luckily seconds later the whistle goes and it's 2-1 and just benches cleared.

1:04:32Musa Okwonga: I think the stadium has a capacity of less than two and a half thousand fans. It's unreal. It's unreal. Amazing man. Yeah. I loved this incredible story. Incredible story.

1:04:44Ryan Hunn: Belgrano won their first title in Argentina. Being River Plate 3-2 in the final. and it was just, it felt like there's been a big weekend of firsts.

1:04:58Musa Okwonga: And it hits different when you beat like a historic power like that. Yeah. It's one thing when you beat another team that's like, you know, up and coming, but to beat a team that like has been one of the two dominant powers.

1:05:10Ryan Hunn: Two goals in three minutes at the end of the game as well. Penalty on 86 minutes and then Fernandes got his brace a couple of minutes later, 88 for the winner.

1:05:18Musa Okwonga: Do you know that when Channel 5 in the UK used to put football from Argentina top division and it was incredible and you'd be able to actually there was a pretty good indicator of who would do well in Europe once they left that league it felt like having a cheat guide I really miss miss those days

1:05:34Ryan Hunn: we're recording this ahead of the league 2 playoff final but the Bolton went through against Stockport in the league 1 final so Bolton will be back in the championship next season in England and the championship playoff final took place on Saturday the controversial championship final took place let's say and I think all in all it worked out pretty well for the EFL because Hull ended up going through against Middlesbrough and Hull will be back in the Premier League next season yeah huge congratulations to them

1:06:05Musa Okwonga: yeah yeah one other thing since we're talking trophies and victories Mamelodi Sundowns yes winning their second CAF Champions League they first won in 2016 came back again in style to go to Rabat and do that like was so so impressive um against uh fr rabat who were the home side and this it's so wild that you had like teams going into a bat having to get a big result against like the home side you know obviously senegal did it against morocco and mamalodi sundown's doing it for those having a chance to check out mokorena's goal his equalizer which meant that they won two on an aggregate absolute banger so congratulations to them and to their coach who'd lost three straight well two straight finals before this one at this level so yeah huge respect the one last shout out I have to say is Bruno Finanche getting the assist record out right in the Premier League has to be said that's impressive I suppose just because of how United turned their season around and look there's a lot to look at next year if United United played we were talking before actually played a lot less football than a lot of other teams in the league because they weren't in Europe.

1:07:20Musa Okwonga: We're going to find out next year how good Michael Carrick is at rotating, and that's going to be absolutely crucial. But all that said, take nothing away from what United have done, particularly since the departure of Ruben Amirim, what Bruno Financiers has done, what Michael Carrick has done. You see how popular Financiers in the dressing room. And just, I think there's such a class about all of this, like Casemiro for example having the big goodbye then not being involved in the away game into the season because Carrick was like we just felt it was the right time to move on so he's left out the matchday squad like small touches like that knowing when it's time to move players on knowing when it's time to give players their shine you know not making a kind of not getting all draconian with Bruno Financi who was clearly chasing the assist record in the last couple of games and just going look go out there and enjoy it you've earned it like stuff like that goes a huge way goes a really really long way and I don't know Manchester United just feels like a bit more of a sanctuary again which is something you couldn't have said actually even even a few months ago

1:08:27Ryan Hunn: Congratulations to everyone involved Yes indeed Sorry I'm at that point in the season where I'm very much like I ain't reading all that Yes I'm really sorry that happened or I'm really pleased for you. Yes, one of the games that happened one of the games of all time

1:08:46Musa Okwonga: And this concludes

1:08:48Ryan Hunn: one of the podcasts that happened so shall we get out of here?

1:08:52Musa Okwonga: Yeah, let's do it.

1:08:53Ryan Hunn: We hope everyone's staying safe and well. Don't forget if you want to check all the episodes of Stadio ad-free info, go to patreon.com forward slash stadio We'll have definitely one bumper episode or maybe two shorter episodes going up on Patreon this week and the support is Much appreciated. In the meantime, don't forget to check the Stadio Archers place on Spotify. And speaking of which, we're playing out on Ode to Life by Bergsonist. Anything you would like to add, Musagwanga?

1:09:20Musa Okwonga: Nothing further.

1:09:21Ryan Hunn: All right, everyone. Much love. Have a great week. We'll be back with you on Thursday. See you then.

1:09:41Thank you.

1:10:11Thank you.

1:10:41Thank you.

1:11:16Ryan Hunn: ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. What makes a leader worth following?

1:11:25Musa Okwonga: What should you really care about in your job as technology is changing so quickly?

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1:12:07Thank you.