We're so back! Community Shield takeaways, Premier League look ahead and more!

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1:25Musa Okwonga: hello and welcome back to the stadio podcast i'm you so kwanga i'm ryan hun ryan how are you doing Doing alright, thanks man. How are you? Very well indeed. Very well indeed, yes. Rested, recharging. Recharging? Yes. Are you like an old phone where you spend half your life needing to be recharged and the other half recharging? I'm very much an old phone, yes. Hey Mooseokwagi, your old phone. Your old phone, your old phone. That sounds like quite a specific test, doesn't it? you know i'm doing i'm almost like anticipating any insults i might get in the future be like look hey this is what you can call me if you want to make fun of me just call me an old phone i really hate it it's a terrible nickname and that was just limiting the damage these days like online discourse is so toxic you should just like be able to nominate the insults of choice actually yeah just call me this if you want to have a go at me just call me this and we can move on um if you are listening to this on the free feed we hope you had a lovely post-Menswell Cup break.

2:27Hope you've been having a lovely summer. This is the first show back on the free feed to Patreon members. Hello again. We hope everyone's staying safe and well though, wherever you are. And a quick bit of admin. We're kind of back now. Back into the normal schedule. So if you're listening to this on the free feed, every Monday you get a show. Patreon members, we're back to two shows a week for now. free feed you might get a Patreon sampler coming soon either with a snippet of one episode or maybe two snippets of two episodes I think it might just be one but we'll see you missed some great stuff LJ Raider from Art but Make It Sports you missed Himesh Battelle who was in the Odyssey and many other things and in the X-Files reboot with Ryan Coogler directed by Ryan Coogler you missed Chris Ryan you missed some great stuff.

3:23So if you want to sign up for Patreon, patreon.com forward slash stadio, come and join us for the season. You can sign up as a podcast member. We just get the podcast. You can also sign up as a social club member where you get all the podcasts plus access to the stadio social club discord, loads of other perks as well. And you get 15 % off annual memberships. So today we're going to just shout out a couple of games. We're not going to go deep on the analysis of the games from the weekend and then we will talk about a couple of other things answer a couple of questions that we got sent it's probably like there's a couple of questions that were like a premier league look ahead so that's set us up quite nicely but uh i reckon we get into it let's do it in a world where ai is changing every role in every industry knowing who actually has deep expertise matters more than ever.

4:19Upwork connects you with the highly skilled freelance professionals with proven track records, so you can hire with confidence. Upwork gives your business fast access to highly skilled specialists with deep expertise, so you can fill critical skill gaps, launch projects faster, and scale support up or down without committing to full-time headcount. With Business Plus, you can access the top 1 % of talent on Upwork. AI-powered shortlisting delivers a curated shortlist of top freelancers match to your goals in under six hours. No endless searching required. Thousands of growing businesses already trust Upwork to hire highly skilled freelance professionals for everything from one-off projects to ongoing support.

4:57It's free to sign up and posting a job is easy. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That is Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Upwork.com.

5:15So first of all, we need to shout out Cameroon, who won their first ever women's AFCON. Yes. Beating Malawi 3-0 on Sunday night. The game's kind of wrapped up in the first half, even though I think Malawi started pretty well.

5:29Musa Okwonga: Excellent start. Cameroon had the game wrapped up by halftime. It's 3-0 at halftime. There could have been more. Yeah, I just want to say on Malawi, congratulations to them just for a great tournament run. And to your point again, as you said, began really, really strongly. And Cameroon could even argue scored against the one to play. But if it came down to anything, as it does in all these finals, Cameroon basically were ruthless on the counter and were ruthless with the second ball. It was their fourth women's AFCON final. They'd lost the first three to Nigeria, I think. The first goal, I think.

6:03Musa Okwonga: Yeah, the first three. So they have a lot of pedigree. They beat Morocco in the semis on penalties, which are in front of a huge crowd. So credit to them. they did it the hard way that's for sure and Malawi you know were the runners up definitely kind of quite wild that Kamaru didn't even qualify for the tournament originally and there was a lot of controversy around the the tournament itself it being postponed only 12 days prior to the tournament I think back in March and yeah yeah also originally it was going to be 12 teams but CAF later added the four highest ranked teams who didn't qualify to make it a 16 team competition which included Cameroon but yeah I think props to even though Cameroon won their first title and it was amazing for them to get it over the line I think Malawi going to the final was just one of the biggest stories of the tournament yeah props to Cameroon first women's AFCON title yes huge congratulations couple of other games that we were going to shout out from the weekend I mean there were some domestic stuff is back already there was the was it the Trophy de Champion in France as well Lens beating PSG 1-0 next to a Florian Tovan goal PSG very much in gun fishing first day back from the holiday vibes yeah but still great great look for Lens two red cards in this game by the way two red cards golden red cards golden red cards Mo Salah making his debut in one all draw Travis on Spore over in Turkey La Liga back first Ricard of La Liga going to Getafe oh what a surprise never change guys never change first half red as well straight after the races yeah lots of little bits of football here and there and interesting transfer news we'll get to that in a bit but speaking of races can we shout out Rating Santander oh yeah we can do you like that segway segway two all draw in the first game back in La Liga.

8:08They were 2-0 up actually against Villarreal who got two goals in two minutes at the end of the first half. Pegged back twice. I know, but that's a really, really good result and the performance from wrestling was extremely good. Wrestling Santander including a 35-year-old Sergio Canales by the way. I haven't heard that name in years. So I'm really excited to see how they do this season. Good to have them back in La Liga. Do you want to talk about the Community Shield? Yes, yes. The Community Shield.

8:38Musa Okwonga: Arsenal 3, Manchester City 0. Community Shield is interesting because it feels like it's become more important in recent seasons. I don't know. Maybe that's because of the tightness, the title race, and just the need to get off to a good start. I don't know. Or maybe it's the discourse. But I think it's an interesting, I would call it kind of State of the Union game because it is a sense of where... It's a good temperature check. Yeah, it is. I think what I would say is Arsenal the champions playing with more freedom and have substantially strengthened Bruno Guimaraes he looks as if he's been there for like a good few months I really liked him and Miles in midfield I really like it I really like it just look just gave Arsenal's midfield a very different dimension two players who are very very what's the word two players whose first instincts is to let's make kind of like game-breaking passes or line-breaking passes.

9:40And I think that's... And on your toes

9:41Musa Okwonga: who like will step on you. They'll be on you. Yeah, yeah. I think they were great. Also, Miles Ouskele doing his David Silva impersonation with that pass for the assist. What a pass. Goodness. And Solis as well. The club needs to stop messing around with Miles and stop this. There was a lot of talk about him going elsewhere. Yeah, he doesn't want to go... He's not... I don't know where the talk came from, but the talk is clearly, it's ridiculous that the talk is happening at all. There shouldn't even be noise. Terrible, terrible. From a football point of view, it would be terrible. And from a PR point of view, it would be terrible.

10:18You're not going to get another player like him for the money that you would get for him. So just keep him.

10:23Musa Okwonga: They need him. And arguably, they arguably don't need anybody else this year. Arguably. I think there's still potentially one more attacking upgrade that they could do but if you look at Christos Solis he has looked brilliant in pre-season and he also looked great in this game very strong Champions League pedigree and also as well the players within the squad are due to improve yeah Downman's going to have a full season in the first team squad and he's a spectacular footballer and arguably if you bring in somebody else it inhibits him we haven't yet seen a fully liberated let's say Nani Madueke or Victor Jokeres for that matter.

11:03Musa Okwonga: There's a lot of players that are playing without a burden of having to get this league over the line. So we haven't seen this incarnation of Arsenal. We just haven't seen it. So actually, it's plain sailing for them. And there's a lot of talk about transfer fees for midfielders. We'll do a segue to Rodri at a certain point. But talk about paying a lot of money for a Gimaraes or Rodri. Okay, here's the thing. Those players potentially buy another league title. And for that money, they're worth it. Like Rodri at Barcelona, for example, we'll get to that in a sec. more fully but the transfer price is worth it in terms of the needle that it shifts and bringing in Gimaraes for a midfield where Zubimendi was basically like was chuffing for the last bit of the season because he was playing so much football he played so much football yeah and now that Myles Lewis Skelly has emerged evolved as as a legit starting option not a deputy you now have four centre midfielders who are all Martin also Martin Odegaard looking.

12:02Musa Okwonga: If someone had said to you that Martin, this version was going to emerge this early. I mean Donnarumma to the ground, not at his best in this game, but still. If someone told you that Martin Odegaard was going to emerge like this in this first game as a promising sign of what he could do, because Martin Odegaard, the only thing he's ever had to add, in my opinion, is goals. Sitting Donnarumma down is, I saw Tim Stillman remind everyone of the Canu goal that he scored and it was very Canu. Yeah, but the only difference with the Canu goal is unlike that, I still can't work out what Canu did to Songo.

12:34Musa Okwonga: I can't work out what it was Songo and goal. I can't work out because the dummy, I think it was hips actually. I think he just did his hips on him, but... Odecault didn't do much. He didn't do much. He didn't do much. There was still, it was still a perceptible movement. He also did one where he shook off Rico Lewis in the midfield that Ali McQuist was just like the Antonio Banderas meme, like audibly on comments for ages. He was just like, oh, oh, oh. Anyway, I think the good thing about and this is going to transition onto Manchester City because I think the thing about the Community Shield is that it's kind of important but it's not important.

13:06And it depends on, there are certain important elements about it. For example, from an Arsenal point of view, looking that fluid, getting quite a statement result, being that much better than Manchester City throughout the whole game, which I think they were. And also just looking a little more exciting than last season. that's a big that's a big marker to put down going into the season and everyone looking quite fresh even the players who have only just come back a few days ago

13:34Musa Okwonga: against what looked like a full strength City line-up yeah I mean starting 11 apart from maybe Gay apart from Gay maybe Enzo Maresca can't afford to lose any momentum every bit of momentum that he needs to capitalise on because if you have a sluggish start as a new manager taking over from someone like Pep you don't get long I don't think before it starts being like hang on a minute so I think performance wise just not not amazing from them the thing I was going to say quickly about Arsenal before we use this to transition onto Man City because I think this is going to be a major part of where they might struggle this season the Gimaraes thing for Arsenal was really interesting because he's essentially the replacement for Christian Nagel right which is wild if you think about it And it's very similar to what happened the season before, which was Zubomendi was the Jorginho slash Partey upgrade and a massive upgrade, right?

14:34Musa Okwonga: Whereas Gimaraes, by contrast, Gimaraes is good enough to start over a fully fit Deccan Rice. Yeah, like depending on the opposition for sure. Whereas Nagel wasn't that. And the thing that you have now, yeah, he wasn't at all. And he's now gone to Everton, which I think is a good move for him. And he's a good player. He's a really good pro as well, Christian Nagel. And it's a shame that it didn't really work out for him at Arsenal. for the three positions in midfield that Arsenal usually need they now have Myles Lewis-Gelly Bruno Gimaraes Declan Rice Martin Zubomendi Martin Erdegor and Eberichieze that is a hell of a six for those three positions and they need them and they need it because they've actually really struggled for midfield depth over the last few years to the point where Rice and Zubomendi looked knackered at points last season in addition to that you also have Kai Havertz and Mikel Marino yeah but I would probably consider them as more options for the central striker role which is kind of still wild that that's where we consider Mikel Marino to be but they can both play in one of those more advanced midfield roles as well Kai Havertz has done it in pre-season and we've seen Mikel Marino do it before as well so but I consider that six as like the main core of the quote-unquote midfielders.

15:55That's a hell of a six. That's ridiculous. And that may be the difference. I was talking to a couple of people about it in the summer, just saying, look, when you win the Premier League title, with that amount of injuries as well, and you are a couple of penalty kicks away from winning a Champions League, you don't need much, especially if there aren't a huge amount of outgoings. And Solis just looks like a young trossard, which is kind of wild. It's frightening. But from a City point of view midfield looks like a potential issue for them and I know it's only one game in terms of semi-competitive and the Community Shield you can't look too much into it.

16:35But with Rodri going Bernardo Silva gone and Tajani Rinder's gone.

16:46I'm not sure Nico Gonzalez Mateo Kovacic and Elliot Anderson are going to are going to be able to I'm not I think it's a I think it's a problem area for City and I you can see they're trying to get Enzo Fernandes right and I but I'm not even sure

17:05Musa Okwonga: even that doesn't even that no even he doesn't look if they were going to get anyone it would be like a the problem is if it's going to be anyone from Chelsea it's Caicedo anyone they're not going to have and the second best player to get from Chelsea would actually be Lavia but then Lavia actually is not a senior Lavia is a better controller of games Enzo Fernandes does not control games like well nobody does nobody controls games like Rodrior Bernardo Silva this is the problem nobody does does City have a clause on Lavia if they can get him back I don't know he was there wasn't he yeah exactly The problem the City have is, look, they're going to create a ton of chances.

17:51Musa Okwonga: They had the bulk of the possession in this game, and they made some very good chances. They're going to do that this year, but they're not going to be able to put teams away. The Man City of 2-0 up in a derby, take the heat out of a game for the last hour, that's gone. It's gone. It's gone, in my opinion. And then look, as brilliant as like Nico Riley is, who was used in central areas and Pep was bringing him on, I think, look, Pep coaching this team would find a way to get an axis of O 'Reilly and Elliot Anderson to control games. but Mureska in my opinion is a cut below Pep right and when I say a cut below I think you'll see a drop off in the intensity the way that City controls spaces um the way that they use possession to hurt opposition and teams are going to have a go at City as they naturally would just because Pep's gone they'd have a go at City if if Iriola was there right who I think is probably the best who would have been maybe the best replacement for Pepe, they could have got him.

18:55Musa Okwonga: Not that's a hot take. I think it's a fairly, you know, standard opinion there. But they've got this horrible mixed city of like a drop-off in players who just have the muscle memory to control a City team, right? There were City players who had, like De Bruyne, Rodri and Stones obviously going as well. Someone that could just run a game, not necessarily from midfield, but from just a certain place. So Bernardo Silva, obviously Rodri all gone. Those controllers that City had, those four kind of controllers, all out. And it's a new era for them. And they want to use Phil Foden as a 10, so you haven't got the pressure at the 10 positions.

19:32Musa Okwonga: You've got all these things now, which are not, Foden's not an amazing, he's an amazing player, don't get me wrong. But just the intensity of City immediately felt like it had taken a step back. Yeah, I've, yeah, and I'm kind of... Still good value for like top two, top three. but they will need put it this way they're going to need a bit of luck to win the league this time let me put it that way they'll need a bit of luck and I'm not sure they're going to get it I think they'll probably need quite a quite a lot of luck do you know what I mean yeah because I think that one of the things that I think you've kind of touched on something there that you're not only losing a technical there's not only a big big technical set of departures from a football point of view.

20:22There's also a lot of leadership that's gone there because you've also lost Nathan Ake, who was there for a long, long time. Yeah, brilliant player. You're losing Rodri. You've lost Bernardo Silva. You've lost your captains.

20:38Musa Okwonga: You're losing Rodri. You're losing the best midfielder in the world. On current form. There's a lot of talk about Omar Mamouche going and I think what's really interesting this season that there are quite a few clubs who might see players coming on. It might be the season of the new squad number because there are a few players who are coming back and making appearances for clubs that I don't think they thought they were going to make appearances for again in, say, Marcus Rashford or Jack Grealish. Jack Grealish coming on in the Community Shield was not something I would expect to be happening in 2026 for Manchester City, especially after last season.

21:17so it feels like for the first time in a while City have some actual work to be done not for a while because it felt like last season or the season before there was talk about City rebuilding and there was but they made quite decisive moves right they went and got Semenyo and Gaye in January and all of a sudden just looked like an amazing team again but now you've lost that technicality from a football sense but you've also looked like a massive load of leadership from Pep to Rodri to Bernardo Silva to Aki. And so that's where it gets tricky sometimes because who takes responsibility then, it becomes a little less defined.

22:06And that's where I think teams sometimes struggle in the aftermath of a legacy manager leaving as well. I think it's going to be a difficult job for Mureska I think I would also say that I'm finding it quite this is going to lead into another question in a minute because I am finding it quite difficult to fully gauge where the Premier League is going to be like this season because coming off the back of a World Cup year, a World Cup summer it's really difficult to see to gauge where teams are at it highly depends on who's come back and the level of fitness etc there's such a huge amount of coaching to turn over in the top half and there's like so much of it is really up in the air right you know you saw how quickly it turned for Jabby Alonso at Real Madrid you've seen how quickly it actually turned for Enzo Mureska at Chelsea after quite a successful debut season the players are familiar with him at Manchester City but how does that transition from being the coach a few years ago to then being the main guy I find it I find it really interesting where the Premier League's at

23:14Musa Okwonga: following Pep the only team I have any idea about or any feeling about is actually Arsenal it's the only team I look at and go because I just know what Arsenal have been and I knew what they've built and the additions have been so sensible and we were chatting about this last night you and I I was just saying I actually like the fact they haven't got desperate in the transfer market yeah same I really like I think it's just solid sensible United's unknown quantity because the Champions League now and now we're going to see what Carrick is like when he rotates. We haven't seen that before. Aston Villa, very interesting.

23:45Musa Okwonga: I love the addition of Suzuki in a goal. That's really exciting. I do, yeah. It's a great get. It looks like the Martinez depart is not happening, which is interesting. They've got some great depth, yeah. It looks like Vicario is going to Juve from Spurs instead. I like that for Vicario and for Juve. So, yeah, just so many, so many, well, unknown unknowns really in this league table. so many what are Liverpool going to be don't know no I mean Liverpool I find one of the most intriguing sides this season because they've not they look like they need some players still however Iriola is such an amazing coach it just all depends on I think how how his methods land with those players if those players are ready to buy in I think they could be they're the one they're the one I think that could move through the pack they're the one I think because again because he's he's amazing and those players have all had a bit of a bloody nose whether it was the World Cup in the summer from Germany or just like they've read all the press they've heard all of it and they've now got a completely clean slate with this guy Kerkes loves him loves working with him I think fitness is going to be a major thing sorry to cut in but fitness is going to be a major thing just when like when we were chatting to Neil that time just how some of those players coming back from injury how quickly they're going to be sharp and I'm not sure about Liverpool's depth I'm not sure about their depth yeah to that point the depth you know the physical demands of what he's going to ask them to play so I think you know it's a real change of tempo from Schlott I think it's fair to say just crucial points yeah again I just think it's kind of it's Arsenal and everyone else and Spurs you know they've made some great additions but then it's De Zerbe so that goes two ways that spurs it could go amazing or it could go sometimes maybe good sometimes you know yeah you know I wish that was one of the rare times where I wish we did a video to paraphrase your expression that was great to paraphrase Charles Dickens in Tale of Two Cities it was the best of vibes it was the worst of vibes

26:05in a world where AI is changing every role in every industry, knowing who actually has deep expertise matters more than ever. Upwork connects you with the highly skilled freelance professionals with proven track records so you can hire with confidence. Upwork gives your business fast access to highly skilled specialists with deep expertise so you can fill critical skill gaps, launch projects faster, and scale support up or down without committing to full-time headcount. With Business Plus, you can access the top 1 % of talent on Upwork. AI-powered shortlisting delivers a curated shortlist of top freelancers matched to your goals in under six hours.

26:41No endless searching required. Thousands of growing businesses already trust Upwork to hire highly skilled freelance professionals for everything from one-off projects to ongoing support. It's free to sign up and posting a job is easy. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That is Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Upwork dot com. This kind of leads us onto a couple of questions that we had from Patreon members. One from Shreya Chowdhury, who says, I'd love to hear your thoughts about the unique state of the Premier League this season.

27:18Arteta is the only manager in the league who's currently won the league and the majority of the top clubs are in a rebuild phase with manager departures and major player transfers. What do you make of this? Has the Premier League ever been in a state like this before? And if so, What lessons could we draw from the past? Does this mean Arsenal have a better chance of defending the title? And there's another question from Inman who said, I don't want to predict a Premier League table, but I do want a club-by-club, will-finish, no, lower-than list. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So basically, like, instead of being, here's the Premier League table for our predictions, club-by-club, what's the position that we think they will finish no lower than, which I think is quite interesting.

28:02Oh my god. So let's do Shreya's question first because we've kind of touched on it a little bit already. I think it is... I haven't gone back and looked at it season by season but it feels

28:24maybe... I don't know. I can't recall a season where this much... change had happened.

28:31Musa Okwonga: The only match in the league currently who's won the league. That's wild. That's ridiculous. There's no institutional memory of winning in the Premier League. Nobody knows how to do it apart from Arteta. That's wild. That is an incredible... As a manager, we should stay. As a manager. This is unprecedented. Because winning the Premier League is a thing. It's a real thing getting over the line, right? And what this is going to lead to, looking at sort of stepping back from it, it will lead to a greater parity in competition for maybe a little while to come. Because Arsenal are my favourites for this.

29:13Musa Okwonga: I've said this. I mean, they were my favourites. They would have been my favourites if Pep was still there. This is the thing, to be clear. Even if Pep was still there and the transfer business was it, it is. If Pep was there right now and Mareska wasn't, with the business that Arsenal have done and them being champions and playing with more freedom, they are again my title favorites but i think beyond this because i'm not sure that arteta is a very few managers are the type to just do a steamroller and just do like three four straight like a pep right arteta's not that like as as good as he is um and who knows how much longer he wants to be there you don't know all of these intangibles but after this i think this season the next three seasons interest me so much because i think we're going to get some really interesting movement in the top four.

29:57Musa Okwonga: And I think this is a chance for clubs that haven't had a go in a while to really go for it and be like, here's an opening. So I think you're going to get, I think Spurs will have a good go at it. But again, I mean, in a season where there are unknown quantities and where Spurs have actually retooled quite impressively, I mean, their additions have been I think superb, actually. I agree. I think they've been really, really, really good. have made superb additions. The only issue I have with Spurs is it's the coach actually. It's the combustibility of De Zerbe. Can he add, can he add calm to the chaos, to his own chaos?

30:36Musa Okwonga: Because if he can do that, then I think they're a legit threat, actually. Spurs fans are going to hate me saying they're going to get high if you're saying that because of the seasons they've had. But I think he is in an open field where it comes down to brilliance of coaching and squad depth. Spurs have a shot. They have a shot, actually. I think not having Europe is a massive shout. They've got more than Chelsea for my money, actually. This is a really big year for Chelsea because I think this season is going to define the next however long for Chelsea about where they are as a football club because they've had a few swings and misses under Blue Cove.

31:20And And I think that their revolutionary, quote-unquote, tongue-in-cheek, hashtag sarcasm font, approach to transfers is starting to wear a little thin with everyone. I think it's been wearing a little thin for the fans for a little while because they're like, look, why are we getting rid of these players not managing to build anything and then kind of replacing them with players that are just as similar? there isn't a huge amount of year on year incremental increase in the strength of that squad if anything they went backwards massively last season especially if you consider where they were after the Arsenal draw at Stamford Bridge where people were talking about them knocking on the door for potential champions like a potential title challenge

32:11there's no there's no Europe which is a good thing they have to stick with Alonso I think yeah yeah but then again it's quite a big season for Alonso as well after the Real Madrid thing although I think the Real Madrid thing was just I think that might end up looking like a I don't know it might be smart for Alonso to go from Real Madrid to Chelsea and he may end up with two exits from jobs that don't really harm his career too much if you know what I mean

32:42Musa Okwonga: yeah it's such a strange and when I said and just to be clear Chelsea fans when I talk about Spurs having a better chance at Chelsea. I think that Spurs, the squad they've got now has a really high ceiling. Paro just won a World Cup. There's two centre-backs who've come in from different places at Sanesi and Van Hecker. Like, and then you've got Mateus Fernandes in midfield and Tonali. The only thing actually, weirdly enough, the transfer I think they missed out and they could have got was actually, I think Danny Welbeck at Spurs in this team with this collection of players, I think, would be the perfect lightning rod for that front line.

33:16Stop that though. That would have been even worse than him going to Chelsea for Arsenal fans.

33:19Musa Okwonga: But in terms of like the front line and him knitting it together, I think that's the one thing Spurs lack. I think a striker to knit it all together, but maybe that could be Solanke. But I think for Chelsea, what's so strange for them is just, again, just so many moving parts. If anyone can get a tune out of them, it's Alonso, it's the Leverkusen Alonso. I think that's it. I think what Alonso is going to do is maybe revisit that sort of interchangeable attack. I think he will use Palmer as his, as his Vietz, because that just seems to make sense as in the player that a creative place, very different to Vietz, but a creative player that will probably play the most of the attacking midfielders.

34:02And then just a configuration around them.

34:04Musa Okwonga: And he's got some really good attackers in there. The look, the loss of Kukurea is, is huge. Really big. It's a huge loss. and I think he's a player whose absence will be keenly felt more than his presence was I think well not within Chelsea because I think of course the fans know what he offered for a long time but I think that I think the loss of Kukure is massive for them but yeah I just think if we're going to like sort of segue to places that clubs will finish no lower than and maybe tie in with that original question it's an unprecedented Premier League season I can't remember a year where it was all, you know, really sort of so open where you don't really know which players will come back from injury, how they'll do.

34:48Musa Okwonga: We don't know how Isak's going to do back with a full season of health. We don't know if he's going to let sleep on top of it. I don't even think we have like a, in previous seasons, we've had a top two, top three, potentially top four locked off. I don't think we have that this year. We haven't got top six, to be honest. No. And I, I think one of the, some of the more interesting, well, not even that really because I think there are interesting stories up and down the table I think genuinely throughout the whole league for the first time in years to that level because I think we've seen over the last couple of years how that Premier League middle class has grown you've been talking about this for so long now and to the point where I think we started saying it might end up being a bit like the Bundesliga where you finish fourth one year and then twelfth the next year and that actually has to start being fine because of how close the margins are.

35:42Someone like Newcastle this season I find really interesting because they've got Yaisler in, Eddie Howe has left and he left quite late into pre-season.

35:55Musa Okwonga: They've lost Gordon and Gimmaras. They've lost a huge amount of players. Crucial, crucial players. Yeah. And Tonali. Gordon, Gimmaras, Tonali. A huge amount of players and they feel like they've now shifted tack where they're So where are they? What is their goal now? Is their goal Champions League still? Because I think that is a big ask from that squad and from this manager this season. To be honest, I think top half is a big ask. I do. I really do. I think I'm actually, to be honest with you, of all the clubs with significant resources, they're the ones that I think will struggle. Because the problem is they have the double whammy of they're a giant people want to kill, but they're an ailing giant.

36:39Musa Okwonga: They're ailing as well. And you look at that midfield, right? Look who they've got available. Joe Linton, Aladji Bamber, Sean Sturr, Joseph Willock, Joe Willock, Jacob Ramsey and Lewis Miley. That is not a midfield that's going to control the bulk of its games. And we've said this before, time and again, the Premier League, it comes down to who can control games and who can't. If you can't control games, you don't finish high on a certain amount, at a certain level. And that midfield is not it. George Wellington's out till what mid-September maybe early September I mean as dramatic as it's I'm not going to say that it's a hot take I'm swinging for the fence there well this could this could take we could go on to our next part of that question here if we wanted to and we could go through the league and say no lower than I can't I don't I haven't watched enough of all these clubs to say no lower than but surely surely we must be able to know no lower than yeah because we're going to end up with like they're going to be you know because somebody someone's going to run the numbers and be like stadio said there's only like well let's let's so look let's go through it so spurs I think spurs genuinely no lower than 10th let's go reverse order alphabetically so I think spurs no lower than 10th this season spurs are looking top six to me yeah so what's your no lower than no lower than no lower than 8th oh nice yeah I think yeah what about Sunderland you can have Sunderland second season syndrome no lower than 10th because people are going to have a go at them now like now that they know what Sunderland are what they do I'm going to say no lower than 14th I think just Sunderland the people it's the second season right people are going to I know they finished 7th but people are going to respect them more they're going to respect them more there was only there were only 7 points between them and 14th I think that's I think people didn't respect them as much as they could have I think the way they start games against Sunderland the way they start the season at Sunderland now knowing what they can do I think will be a challenge for them so I think yeah I said 14th Forest

39:07Musa Okwonga: I really don't know about Forrest. I don't know. I don't think, yeah. Go on. They lost Elliot Anderson, Ryan. I know. They lost Elliot. Yeah, but they lost Elliot Anderson. I just, as good as he is, a player like that, no lower than 18th.

39:32Musa Okwonga: really yeah I think they're going to be I think they're going to be I'm going to go one high I'm going to say no lower than 17th I don't think they'll go down that's my gut I can see them as they're I think they're in like look you know I think of Glasney how well that club's been coached generally as well but I just think that is that is an astonishing loss they finished 16th last season with some very very weird all over the place season Elliot Anderson I know it's alright Newcastle United I think are going to finish no lower than for me they're no lower than 18th but that's going down though yeah I know I know I know but I think I'm not saying that to light up because I'm being a hater I'm saying it because they've lost Tonali, Gimaraes and Gordon they've lost them to clubs that are either going to be Champions League contenders or who are trying to win like a second straight another a second straight title Barcelona came for Anthony Gordon one of the best pressing forwards in Europe and I say that out of a compliment to what Newcastle have had and the quality of it they've lost three Champions League level performers and Eddie Howe I'm going to say no lower than 15 it's a disastrous transfer window they've had it's disastrous you know does that make sense?

40:57Musa Okwonga: it's not great just saying in terms of like but they've been selling very well though so I mean that is a good plus they've sold very very well in the last year I mean yeah they have and also I've got to say this because a lot of people are knocking some of those fees but I think that's very good negotiation it's great business I mean every single club in the world would want to sell like they've sold in the last year not maybe not necessarily the personnel but for the fees for them absolutely I think I would say this it's one of the rare cases where each transfer each major transfer has been a win-win for club for both clubs actually there is there is there is a there is a there is a path that I could see Newcastle being freed up a little bit though and having a little bit of a lower expectation this season and a fresh start you know for example they could it wouldn't surprise me if at the end of the season they're 7th right but I'm going to say no lower than 15th because I just I just have a feeling that you're going to we're going to get another season where the 7th where maybe like 6th 7th down to potentially even 17th is going to be so congested it can change match day to match day yeah Manchester United oh god it's I don't know it's so wild isn't it I think no lower than 7th I think 7th is a good shout.

42:27Musa Okwonga: Yeah. No lower than seventh. Yeah. I think that's good. I think they, it's so key how they handle the extra games this season because they only played 70 games, sorry, they only played 40 games last season. I think they brought very well in midfield. I think Telemans and Santos look really, really good. I think Rashford coming back is super interesting. But I think no lower than seventh because you just don't know it's the imponderables. How would he rotate? Yeah. Manchester City. No lower than fourth. I think this is an interesting one. actually do you know what's weird no no no lower than 5th I think 5th I think there is a world they could finish 5th there is absolutely Liverpool

43:11Musa Okwonga: no lower than 6th I agree look at us we should do a podcast I agree I'm very intrigued about Liverpool I feel like they're going to do quite well I can't see them but that's not the question the question is no lower than so this isn't how good we think people are this is just how less how less bad the range it's the floor we're doing the floor not the ceiling Leeds United

43:51Musa Okwonga: no lower than

43:56Musa Okwonga: 15th

44:00Musa Okwonga: am I being nice I don't no no you're not I think no lower than 15th I just think Leeds are going to survive again see because my initial my initial thing was I was a bit higher on Leeds I'm not I'm not not because it's not about the football with Leeds it's about the execution what did you say not no lower than than 15th oh yeah actually do you know what yeah I'm just gonna say that yeah no lower than 15th yeah that's fine are we gonna have no lower than and then we're just gonna have a big gap wherever yeah because Leeds Leeds are like Leeds are like a better Wolves you know how Wolves went down but like Wolves are like probably the best like we said this before of all the teams that got relegated in the last 20 years Wolves would win the title of those of those teams if they're in a division together and I think Leeds are there's a lot of technical quality there but there's an execution issue just because it's resources or the rest of it but they're a good side they're like yeah good side Ipswich Town I'm going to say no lower than 20th I think that's the same I'll go with that too Hull City

45:10Musa Okwonga: no lower than I think they're going to be one of those clubs that also I think no lower than 19th I think it's going to be it's going to be tough for them the only team I mean obviously it's funny enough because Coventry I think have got some interesting upside. I think that Hull, I'll sound like a hater, but I think it's, yeah, no lower than 19th. I'm going to say no lower than 20th. Yeah. Fulham. Fulham are funny. That's a funny one. That's a funny one. I think are below it. Good preseason. Which makes me think they're going to really struggle.

45:52Musa Okwonga: let me be charitable no lower than 14th no lower than 14th they've added well they've added well Abloh is a good coach he's a good coach I don't think 11th last season I don't think he's as good as Marco Silva for Fulham I don't think we know yet I think I think fourth well let me put it they've added they've added a really good player like Gonzalo Garcia as a forward. It's a really good get for them. It's a really, to the point where... They've got Shea Charles in as well, which I think is a really good sign. I'm a bit nervous for Garcia because that's a big step. That's a big step down. If you look at the profile that Garcia had and how he was being talked about for Madrid, that's like a knock on Fulham.

46:37Musa Okwonga: But in terms of like his career trajectory, right, it is a big step down. But I think he's a very good player who could thrive. Him and Arbolov have got a really good relationship. no lower than 14th Fulham they could be quite good again this year yeah I'm alright with that yeah I'm fine with that Everton

46:58Musa Okwonga: it's Moyes no lower than 12th I think 12th I'm going to say 13th because they finished 13th last season and I don't think they'll finish lower than 13th this year Palace oh oh this is hard no lower than 14th I think Palace might struggle this season. They're going to struggle, but I think that other clubs will struggle more than them. I think this is tricky. It is tricky. I think this is very, very tricky. No lower than 14th. It's going to be hard for them though. It's a real grind. I'm going to say no lower than 16th. All right. Coventry City. I'm going to say no lower than 19th. I don't think they're going to finish bottom.

47:42No. I think they'll...

47:45Musa Okwonga: Just about. No lower than 18th. You think they're going to go down, but only just? I think they, no, I think it's going to, I think they'll stay up, but I think it's going to be. That's 17th. Yeah, but I think, I think they're, I don't think they will, but you don't think, if you think they're lower than. Yes, I think if they go down, they won't go down as one of the bottom two. And I think that it will come, I think it will be tough for them, but I think they might, I think they'll just about survive. But then it's going to be them. I think there's going to be one or two other, including like a big club in there in the mix but I think they will I think they will ultimately stay up but I think I don't see them going down in the bottom place club I think we're a bit too much for that Chelsea no lower than oh this is a bit I think 6th I was going to say 8th alright my gut was no lower than 8th so I'll go with that I think that not being in Europe is going to really help them this season but again if they fire Alonso earlier and there's chaos again and I could see them struggling.

48:45It's true. Get Rooney in. Get Jose in. No. Brighton and Hove Albion.

48:50Musa Okwonga: No lower than 10th. Finished 8th last season. They're in Europe this season. I'm going to say 12th. Lost Welbeck as well. No lower than 12th, I'm going to say. Losing Welbeck was big. Bremford. Just missed out on Europe last season. I think they're going to be quite good. I think they're going to be quite good. They've added quite well. They've shot quite well. No lower than... no lower than 10th I'll say 11th no lower than 11th Aston Villa they're gonna be good they're gonna be good they're gonna be good they're gonna be good they lost Tielemans they lost Rogers but they're Villa they're coached by Emery okay look

49:36I I

49:37Musa Okwonga: I I okay okay okay this is hard this is hard they just want a Europa League ah they're lower than 8th they're going to be good again oh no lower than 8th yeah they're going to be good again oh that was that was lower than I thought you were going to go I just think those teams are going to be like I think there's going to be a logjam Ryan this is it there's going to be a logjam between 3 down to 8 it's going to be like it's going to be so small I'm going to say no lower than 7th I'm going to go one higher do you sort of mean though what I'm saying like those there's going to be there's going to be so many teams in that like upper middle class that will fancy their chances at going third like I think a lot of people a lot of a lot of managers have quietly earmarked third place as where they come to pitch their tent I think a lot of managers are looking going look we're not gonna win the league this year because there's too many moving parts and you there's me I've just come in or I've been for a couple of seasons and there's new players coming in but I'm not telling anyone outside the club I'm telling the players this and some of the staff but I think we can go third this year and I think a lot of clubs are obsessed with finishing third as their metric let's talk about Arsenal next I think Villa should be one of them no longer than second yeah I agree no longer than second that Arsenal team is it has it's like we call them what's it automatisms whatever that team just knows what to do Arsenal to me are basically what Spain were at their last World Cup in the sense that the different teams, very different.

51:12But what I mean by that is they weren't the flashiest,

51:16Musa Okwonga: but it was basically Spain, in my opinion, it was Spain and everyone else. That's how I saw it prior to the World Cup, just because of what Arsenal could do and take this thing out of games. Actually, by the way, while I'm talking about Spain very quickly, a friend of mine, Naomi, shout out to her, had the best description of Spain's national team I've ever heard. She said, they are the Borg. That sort of extraterrestrial intelligence from Star Trek where it's like, where they absorb like consciousness of everything and they're like unbeatable and they're completely interchangeable you can take out a player and they're equally good that to me is what Arsenal are at the moment in the Premier League and who knows how long that period will last but for me it's no low no low in the second I just think they're that good let's finish with AFC Bournemouth ooh I like this no low in the 13th

52:05Musa Okwonga: Marco Rosa exactly they're in Europe it's this like the demands on them in the European context and Rosa we don't know it could be it's such an unknowable because we know that at his best when he gets chemistry with the players and the fans and plays that style of football then it's tremendous I wonder about Iriola had better match control I think than Rosa this is where I think there'll be a challenge I think 13th for Bournemouth I'm gonna say 10th I'm going to go higher that's the thing but yeah I like that I like that they're going to look they're going to play some great football I quite enjoyed doing that as opposed to being I loved that I loved that yeah that was really great yeah yeah yeah but just to clarify before anyone comes at us that does not mean we think your club will finish 10th it means we think we think your club will finish no lower than 10th for example but yeah thanks for the questions guys on that one let's have one more question to finish up let's do it I love these Happers from the Discord said from the standard social club Discord said curious to hear your thoughts on what Paul Pogba does next if his career is over what are your thoughts on it and his legacy he struggled at Manchester United but was great initially at Juventus and for France okay then I think you should do you should go to Turkey and I Paul Pogba going to Turkey I think Monaco didn't quite work like Monaco, that's severe fitness demands, right?

53:39Musa Okwonga: Like we know they like to run in that league. So actually it was really hard. If you've not played for two years, arguably it was even hard, like the way, especially that top level, like that top level for the French league. We know that it's like physically so intense. It was asking a lot. I say Turkey because he'll get the love there. He'll get paid well. And I think could be part of a really fun lineup. like one of the sort of you know Istanbul teams could be quite exciting I think Pogba to Turkey Fenerbahce or Galatasaray I think would be my next move if I was him because I think La Liga it's a bit too much and it might just be a bit painful being somewhere where you're like in La Liga but not at one of the two big clubs where at some point you were destined to go in terms of his career and legacy I mean it's devastating really like getting done for the drug ban derailed him so much.

54:40Musa Okwonga: In terms of his legacy, he won the World Cup for France. He's a France legend. And he always seemed happier. He seemed happiest playing for the national team, which I think is a good reflection on him because it shows that he was ultimately a team player. All the things that people said that Pogba couldn't do, he did for France. Tactically, superbly disciplined against Uruguay in a game where there was extreme provocation, was physically exceptional in that game in a midfield where people thought that he could be outmuscled. Was brilliant against Argentina. He had different incarnations in the space of one tournament.

55:18Musa Okwonga: It was so, so impressive. And in the World Cup final, of course, when N 'Golo Kante wasn't really at it, didn't have the best game, dominated, probably the best midfield in the tournament. Pogba Kante was brilliant, but Rakitic Modric never dropped its level and Pogba dominated them for an hour. That is his legacy to me, actually. Like his final form and like his goal in the World Cup final says it all. It's a raking Crossfield pass to the right flank, jogs the edge of the box, tries a shot with his right foot when it doesn't work out, curls at home with his, in quotes, weaker foot. That's Pogba's legacy.

55:53So it's worth noting that at the time of recording, it hasn't been confirmed that Monaco will terminate his contract, but apparently there have been talks to do so because he suffered an injury in pre-season last week which looks set to keep him out for months as opposed to weeks as a hamstring injury. I don't know what club will sign him next or whether he will do that but I have a feeling he might go and train with United, with Manchester United. I'd love that. Because he played with Carrick and Carrick strikes me as the kind of person that would be like, hey, actually, let's get Paul in to train with the players.

56:37I mean, depending on their relationship, obviously you never fully know what players are like with each other or what they feel like they will bring to the group. I don't know. I find him such an intriguing character, though, because I mean, obviously I don't know the guy, but I wonder what he thinks about his career and what happened. And if, for example, he's someone who's quite reflective about what's happened and maybe is a bit like, do you know what? I wish I would have done this differently. I think having a player who thinks like that around a club like Manchester United at the moment, I think would be actually quite a really good thing.

57:16Musa Okwonga: I've got a couple of thoughts. I think he should go and talk to Zizou. I think that the France set up, I think, look, younger, young people love him. He's like, Paul Pogba is basically like he's an incredible footballer who also if he did a guest spot hosting Sesame Street or like he'd be like he'd be like the most viewed ever because he has this incredible ability I think to bring people together like he's an amazing leader actually I think he's an underrated leader the only thing he did wrong and we always talk about how desperate Zidane was to get him at Real Madrid that's the only thing he did wrong was not joining Real Madrid that was it that's the only career mistake that he made in my opinion like the major one um in the context of all the family stuff he was going through he is a France legend he's clearly still beloved it's a shame FIFA such a mess because he would be a youth ambassador he'd be a perfect ambassador for the game everywhere but FIFA's a mess right now I still think there's a role for him in an organization like that I just think as somebody that could just go around the world talking about the art of playing midfield I think what's really important now is him positioning himself as a great midfielder I think while people remember Pogba's like ceiling is really important in the next five years in terms of positioning himself like a kind of you know like Maldini I'm not saying as a sporting director I'm not sure that's his brief necessarily but positioning himself as kind of a legend that deserves like a Seydorf I think that is quite important positioning himself as someone who's kind of like a wise Yeah I think yeah I think it can be difficult with the career that he's had to you know I think I think leaning more into France I think the France that's what I think yeah I mean or Juve I mean like he won for Scudetto at Juve do you know what I mean he does but I feel I feel like France is maybe more the one because that is where he's undisputed great yeah he needs to just lean into where he did all the look in the same way that Mbappe but I think Mbappe's future after football also Mbappe's like he's so much accomplished on the kind of corporate side he could do anything but I think that Pogba needs to lean into the France stuff and I think it's the perfect timing with Zidane there does that make sense I agree actually I think if he is coaching stuff yeah I think if he is going to retire moving into the setup at France would be can you imagine him in the setup can you imagine the love walking to you look at like Michael Alisa walking to dressing the way he looks at like Henri and we forget how many people grow up idolising him Pogba you look at how many such a trailblazer such a trailblazer you look at the France players and how they idolise players for what they've done for France I think that's the one I think it's the France Football Federation especially because if you think when he was at his peak it would have been a decade ago right and or you know 8-10 years ago and I think yeah get him in the France setting a lot of those players would have been 15, 16, 17 you know I'm hyped already can you imagine the drip can you imagine turning up for training I mean if he isn't going to retire and he's going to go somewhere I do think that he, you know, I do think going back to Manchester United for training, just to, I think he's, wouldn't be out of the question.

1:00:30I would probably, I mean, I could weirdly see him at somewhere like Villarreal, or, you know, if he's going to make that kind of La Liga move, or I could, if his fitness is okay, I could see him making an MLS move.

1:00:45Musa Okwonga: I'm angry we never saw him at PSG now, if I'm honest. In a different configuration, not because PSG is what it is, and all the rest of it. But in terms of someone, he's a player that needs to be surrounded by the love. That's where he's always thrived. He had a Juventus and a good setup and a great midfield and a United, frankly. The club didn't deserve him. It wasn't in a state to absorb a player of that quality. I mean, and it's not just Pogba they did too. They did it to Juan Sebastian Verón where they didn't have the right setup. The classic example of buying a player that he had no clue what to do with and then throwing him effectively to the Wolves, which happen in different ways to Varane and to Pogba but yeah Pogba in the France set up I think that's the place for him I'd love to see that I mean put it this way the moment I'm thinking about it I'm excited by it you have my attention him and Zizou walking through an airport terminal can you imagine just like my beating heart yeah unbelievable we didn't really talk about Jeff Bezos being part of a consortium that has purchased a minority shareholding of Liverpool and they hold the option of buying a controlling stake in the club, apparently, according to Athletic, per the terms of the agreement with current owners Fenway Sports Group.

1:02:04I'd like to hear from Liverpool fans

1:02:05Musa Okwonga: about that, actually. Yeah. Because I've got my thoughts on it. Yeah, if there are any Liverpool fans, send us an email, hello at football, hello at stadio.football and let us know how you feel about that. I'll try and read a few out.

1:02:21football ownership man so grim shall we roll yeah let's do it alright everyone we hope you're all safe and well wherever you are and we're so back now we're so back we're so back were we ever really gone a little bit but not really

1:02:39Musa Okwonga: not spiritually not spiritually we are back we're back on the free feed we never went away on Patreon so if you if you never want us to go away go to patreon.com forward slash stadion sign up as a podcast member for the season or as a stadion social club member 15 % off annual memberships or you can sign up monthly

1:03:06and don't forget to set the stadion out to us on Spotify speaking of which we're playing out on Do a Nia by Dennis Mpunga and Paul Kay anything you would like to add nothing further everyone much love have a great week and on the free feed we'll be back next week Patreon members see you on Thursday see you then

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