World Cup 2026: England beat Mexico to face Norway; Balogun's red card controversy

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1:59Hello and welcome back to the Stadio Podcast. I'm Mesut Kwonga. I'm Ryan Hun. Ryan, how are you doing? I'm doing all right, thanks man. How are you? I was going to say not as well as England, but then again, I don't know if that many players in England's squad are that well, considering the celebrations at altitude. Did I mention altitude? I've never heard the word altitude mentioned more than I have in the last four or five days. It's the new moral panic. Oh no, oh no, everything's at altitude. Our economy is at altitude. Congratulations to England, by the way. If only. Do you know what?

2:36Anyway. I would literally pay very good money for our economy to be at altitude. But anyway, anyway.

2:42Ryan Hunn: We hope everyone's staying safe and well, wherever you are. Quick bit of admin. We are going to do two more shows this week. We'll do one on Wednesday and then we'll do one on Friday. And if you're listening to this on the free feed and you want to come and join us on Patreon and listen to every single World Cup episode, ad-free info, go to patreon.com forward slash stadio. Sign up as a podcast member. You get all the podcasts. You can also sign up to the Stadio Social Club if you want to get access to all the podcasts plus the Discord and other perks, patreon.com forward slash stadio. And we are now less than three weeks away from our live show at the South Bank Centre, our rescheduled live show at the South Bank Centre with Nish Kumar.

3:23Ryan Hunn: Tickets are moving. if you want to go and get them the link is in the description it's Thursday the 23rd of July it's the Thursday after the World Cup final and that will be our sign off for the season before you and I go on holiday so if you want to come and join us at the South Bank Centre in London go and get your tickets link is in the description we're very excited to see you all hopefully there and also to have Nish who I'm really looking forward to having him on the live show. It's going to be great. Any other admin, Musa Gwanga? No, I think that's it. All right, right. Today we are going to talk about some World Cup action.

4:05Ryan Hunn: We're going to talk about England's win in Mexico. We'll talk about Norway eliminating Brazil. We'll touch on a couple of the other games quickly and we may talk about Bollerin Balogun's red card ban being suspended. Goodness me, yeah. We've got all that coming up. However. There's no one placed again. There's no one placed again. Oh no.

4:34Ryan Hunn: Where's that? Just kidding. We're going to the Azteca. England 3, Mexico 2. England were down to 10 men after Gerald Kwanzaa got sent off. 10 minutes into the second half. It's a funny one this game, right? Because it kind of feels the better team won. But the better team wasn't quite as fancied as they would have been if this game had been anywhere else, I think, because of what you mentioned before, the hashtag altitude. And the energy, the way that Mexico had been moving through the gears in previous games, playing themselves into real form in this tournament. By their final game, obviously this game, playing some really, really good football, putting on some real pressure.

5:19They hadn't considered a goal in the tournament. And they would have beaten. This is the thing, right? First of all, so there's the fact that England didn't know what a goal like Mexico actually looked like. Similar to Spain, right? No one actually knows how to score against Spain yet at this tournament. No one's done it yet. And the other thing is, like Mexico's past completion, the fact they were just running themselves into the ground and maybe felt like there was a bit of destiny behind them. This victory, and this is, England can get knocked out in the next round because this tournament showed that anyone can get the smoke.

5:50Having said all of that, this was the type of performance that you can see from a World Cup winning team. That is the type of, there are very few teams left in the tournament that could have won that game there. Especially after going down to 10 players. Especially then, I think. Yeah, I mean, I can't. There'll be a lot of conversation about this victory in the next few days. and I think very little of it will be exaggerated because it's very difficult to exaggerate the difficulty of what England just did, I think.

6:23Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I agree. I think especially with the conditions and so much up in the air about it as well and the game being moved, which affected both teams obviously, but I think it just played into that sense of dread that was surrounding England's game against Mexico. There was a bit of a like, I don't know. And I think especially because on this side of the world, it was a late one. It was then going to be moved even later. Some people thought it might have been moved too late for them, because there was talk initially about it potentially going a couple of hours. And yeah, I think it played into this sense of an occasion where it wouldn't have been a surprise if England had gone out.

7:07Ryan Hunn: They would have been disappointed, but I don't think it would have been a huge surprise, because I think Mexico at home are like a real force. And I think we saw it in moments in this game, right, where you saw how hard England were having to work for everything compared to like previous games in the tournament. And none of those games have been a breeze, really. So I think, yeah, just I think to be honest, if you were going to take a pure neutral view from this, I think one of the great all-time, one of the great World Cup games as well just I think in terms of an occasion the Azteca under the lights the fact that it wasn't you know it wasn't like a runaway victory for either side it was still all to play for right up to the very end England taking a two goal lead which and because the goals came in quick succession it felt like real they felt like really momentous you know Can I say the way they constructed the goals as well these were beautiful goals both of them Oh yeah amazing Saka working the space on the right hand side clips a ball over with his right foot.

8:12Ryan Hunn: There it is. For Bellingham to head in he was kind of tracking a run behind Harry Kane. So good. And then 90 seconds later Kane squares it for Bellingham for the second. Gordon's pressing. Oh my God. Gordon's. They're going to score so many goals at Barcelona Ryan. Yeah. Gordon's there. They already did but they're going to score so many more goals and I said this I think in the chat, but they are going to love him. Love him. Like Gordon's role against Democratic Republic of Congo in the previous round, that assist is incredible. The assist to Kane, like the second goal is so, so good. And then to do it again here.

8:55And then like the fact that they were so good, England in possession, but also out of it, the front four, Ryan, and they completed fewer than 40 passes between them. Saka completed six passes. Belem completed 16. Like it's incredible what they did out of possession in this game. Like so, so good. Generally, they can control games. They can also sit back and just absorb shock. I mean, I cannot praise them enough. And the way that Tuchel's got them playing, I want to just pause there for a moment and just acknowledge the brilliance of Tuchel's selection, his substitutions, the trust he puts in players.

9:31I know he's had a lot of criticism. You have to say this because I think there comes a point where it's easy to skip over just how much doubt there was over his appointment. But Ryan, I can be frank with you. I don't know many other coaches that coach a game like this to this level. I just don't know many others. And regardless of who they coach and specifically to coach England and get them over the line in the game like this. I don't know. At the moment, I can't really name that many others who do this, actually.

10:05Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I mean, it's tricky, man, because you go, you know, you go 2-0 up and then Julian Quinonez scores that brilliant goal, actually. Yeah, yeah. I think I'm more, I think I'm charitable to concert here. I don't think it was the easiest ball to clear. I think these just happen. Yeah. I think, listen, a ball goes loose in the box at some point. This is just what happens. yeah and so you have three goals in six minutes at that point and going into the break it was all set up for a real kind of blockbuster second half you get the Kwanzaa Red like nine ten minutes into the second half I think it's fair it's completely fair actually yeah I think it's a fair shot yeah yeah it's quite it's wild to me it wasn't called for a foul in real time but I think that you've seen this I think quite a bit it happens so quick it happens so quick I think I've seen quite a bit of criticism with for the refereeing in the tournament though and I think that this has just been something that they've held back on because of the because of the support of VAR I think you've seen them lean on that a lot more in this tournament than maybe you know less things have been called real time you know like the Brazil penalty for example which we'll talk about later for Norway wasn't called real time yes yes and it looked so clearly a penalty even if there was a very slight touch on the ball but not enough I think for it not to be a penalty and but yeah anyway I think it was a completely fair red we will talk about what this means later in terms of just every red card that will be given in the tournament now because of the Balogun stuff but at that point you've still got 35 minutes to play and like minimum and to then go and get the third I think it was so huge because I think understandably England started to retreat a little more at that point because they're pretty decent defensively they're not i don't think the the best defense in the tournament but they're pretty decent and they've got but they've got people in front of that back four who can also help who are quite physical and also like for example you saw you saw the bellingham like we'll talk about bellingham but I still can't believe that he that there was even a remote question about him going to this tournament or his place in the England side like however many months ago because oh my god thank you few players in England's team could score those two goals that he scores and then also make that defensive interception at the back post that he makes I love that you say this okay yeah now I love that you've said this right because again very few players in world football could do that um in terms of the like two goals in three minutes astonishing and two you know quite different goals the late runs particularly the first one reminiscent of like a frank lampard actually and then defensively lampard had the defensive nous of bellingham but he didn't have the athleticism right um and then other players who've had the defensive analysis of Bellingham, but not the technical quality.

13:08And this is why people compare Jude Bellingham to the closest thing they've seen to Ruud Hullet since Ruud Hullet was around. And I think that comparison now needs to be, I think that we look at in terms of lineage. There is no other player I can think of between Bellingham and Hullet, who has had the ability to play multiple positions, to interpret multiple roles. If Bellingham had to play sweeper, he could. If he had to play centre-back or right-back, he could. In fact, we've seen him play right-wing back for Real Madrid, for goodness sake, right? And left. And left back. The ability to contribute in multiple phases, to play multiple positions during the same game, in multiple climates during the same game.

13:46And you have to give praise where it's due because this is a player who people said they can't build a team around him. He's too egotistical. He's too this. He's too that. All of that was nonsense at the time. And it was nonsense at the time to anybody who was actually watching this person play football. And I've said this a thousand times. all you have to do right is just actually watch the games watch how he contributes at certain points around madrid he played as a winger he played as a false nine he played as a 10 played as a striker like and you cannot praise that enough because the criticism was so brutal that at some point if people listen to this criticism thank god we've got tickle there this player wouldn't have been lining up like this and that doesn't just go for bellingham it goes for players like Anthony Gordon, right?

14:33Turns out, shock horror, there was actually a plan for each of these players. And when tested to the highest possible level, if someone had said to you, like, the Croatia game is merely like a palate cleanser, it's nothing compared to what's coming next. They might have scoffed actually, but this is, Bellingham is the real deal and whether or not England win the World Cup, whether or not they go further in the next round, players like Gordon, players like Bellingham, having had their criticism, they need to get their respect. And I know I'm doubling and tripping down on this, but it's just so easy for people to be so vocal and create narratives out of nowhere when those narratives don't back reality.

15:12Put it this way, if you ask the Mexico players what they saw last night or this morning, depending where you're living, they'd be like, look, respect where it's due. And also respect to them for contesting this game in such a good spirit, because we saw other games in this tournament that weren't contested in that way right like I think one thing I can say for the tournament so far is for the most part I've loved the spirit in which it's been played yeah I would say that yeah and that includes that

15:38Ryan Hunn: includes this game too yeah I mean on on one final thing on the Bellingham stuff because there were squads that he was left out of right which I think that you know just if we're having this conversation you need to address them but also at the time I think when when that happened we were saying that he'd been he'd had shoulder surgery because he's had a shoulder problem that had been bugging him for ages he was coming back from fitness and i think tuchel was quite smart to leave him out of those squads and he also had that hamstring problem as well right i think i think he had a hamstring problem so tuchel had picked those squads with an eye on who is going to be fresher in the you know in the final like ready ready to go for the for the tournament right and therefore you know i think a lot of people saw a superstar like jude bellingham being left out of the england squad and it was just like oh well here you go see like the rumblings that we've heard about this and it's like no actually yeah he's going to be we've talked about this so many times with Jude I feel like you know we have to reiterate yeah he's going to be spiky I think he's quite a spiky personality on the football pitch I think that plays into one of the reasons that he's so he's so good you know what I mean some of the best players of all time have had that spiky element too on that point he's 23 years old Jude Bellingham right have we seen a better performance by a young England player like this in decades I don't think we have he has four goals and an assist and it's not the quarterfinals yet and I think the thing about it which was the final thing I wanted to say on it was that I think if I've said this before and I don't want to sound like one of those people that's just like well you know if you'd actually watched the Osasuna game right but I am going to be that person I am going to be that person if you if you watched his if you've watched his Real Madrid arc you know that first season he played a very specific role where he was almost like a second striker and he scored a ton of goals early on.

17:31Ryan Hunn: He broke that goal to go and run. And then he moved to accommodate any other player that was back in that side for the second season. And his numbers fell off a little bit and people were like, oh, his numbers have fallen off. And I was like, yeah, because he's not playing as a second striker anymore. He's been asked to play left midfield in a four of centre midfielders with Vinicius and Mbappe up top. and he's just doing it because he's A he's good enough and he's got the skill set to basically accommodate like you can put Jude Bellingham genuinely in any football team in the world any anyone and he will find a position for himself in there there is no like oh you have to accommodate Jude Bellingham there's never this is the thing like how many conversations have we had about elite players recently in the last few years where the balance is off or how are they going to actually accommodate this player you never this is the thing I think about Jude you never have to accommodate him ever in any side right I love this he will he will do whatever you need to do whatever gap is is needed to be filled personnel wise or role wise winning an 11 he's the guy and that is such a unique like especially nowadays I think to be able to do it to that level I think is really special and I love that you say I love this because there's an incredible interview that Sid Lowe does with the Spain coach.

19:00And he's talking about like Ojo Thaba and how underrated he is and can play in any position across the front line as a centre forward, as a left wing, as a right wing, can play as a force nine, all of that. And Bellingham, I think, is in the same tradition. If you put Bellingham into the Spain team, for example, I think you get the same outcome. The same outcome. Sure. The only player that I would say that Bellingham couldn't, the only role I would say that would be tough for him to match touch for touch is maybe the Pedri role, because I think what Pedri does is so ethereal and otherworldly that I think there's almost no...

19:37Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I agree with that. But I mean, yeah, I think he can play center midfield though, and he can play center midfield with Pedri. Of course, no, without question. And just do all the other stuff, yeah. Frankly, that's a terrifying thought, which is why I was trying to cut you off because I didn't want to. I don't think it's going to happen. One place for Barcelona, one place for Barcelona. Yeah, but you know how, you know there's that meme going around how the European mind cannot comprehend the American's thought stadium. I can say this safely. The human mind cannot comprehend Bellingham-Pedry in a midfield.

20:05That is... That's pretty cool. We'll never see it. Thank goodness we'll never see it. That's pretty cool. But yeah. Anyway, so all of that... All of that to say, yeah. All of that to say, huge and full credit without signing patronising to Mexico for everything they brought on and off the field.

20:23Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I mean, would you want to just quickly wrap up the rest of the game because we had the Kane penalty with half an hour to go and then the Jimenez penalty with just over 20 minutes to go. Both completely fair penalties. Can we talk about if there was a player in goals slightly less competent than Pickford how Mexico could have cooked England early on. That save by Pickford from Jimenez at 0-0 is amazing. That's an all-timer. One of his best performances in England, I think. It's absolutely one of his best performances in England's shirt. The shot stopping. Oh my God. Also, justice for stutter step penalties, because actually, as much as I dislike them, that's how you take them.

20:59If you're beating Jordan Pickford with a stutter penalty, do you realise how good you have to be at striking the ball? The thing about the Jimenez penalty, though,

21:06Ryan Hunn: was that his run-up, he never lost momentum. I think what we're doing is a lot of stutter step penalties. The Bruno Gimeraich one from Brazil, he lost all momentum of that run up yes the trick to a stutter step penalty is that you've got to hit it as if you're going you're tumbling downhill right you've got to get the goalkeeper caught up in your rhythm that's the key channel the inner what's the cheese run yes the cheese if you're going to do a stutter step penalty do the cheese run stutter step penalty where you can just you know you're always going downhill totally it's cheese running absolutely I think this is it this is the big deal um again, but like what Pickford did, and this is only for him that Mexico didn't have joy in that early, the crucial early period.

21:52And I want to give credit to them because everything they've given us this tournament, their fandom has been spectacular in and out of the stadium. We know there's the wider social issues, the backdrop to that. We're not overlooking any of that to get me wrong, just in terms of what the players have given us and the fans have given us. Like I cannot praise that enough. And also because they've got a couple of departing legends, even as well, Ochoa is certainly like, yeah, bowing out at this point and he's been brilliant. Jimenez grew into the tournament and it's just spectacular the last couple of games in particular.

22:25So yeah, just gutted for them. I want to just say that, put a pin in that because it's easy to overlook what they brought to the tournament and they are, again, alongside Canada, like two of the three hosts have now gone out and I think that's about fair. Like this USA team is one of the best host sides we've had for a couple of tournaments now, actually. Maybe some might say, oh, it's not saying much, but actually... It's probably since Brazil. Yes, I think that's right. That's right, yeah. I don't think that's any... No, not a huge shout. So yeah, credit to Mexico. And I know there'll be some despondency, but I don't realistically think there's much further they could.

23:08I think they go out of the quarters. I just think each tournament gets exponentially harder as you go through each round and they might be frustrated but I think the quarterfinals were in my opinion the quarterfinals to me were their ceiling but that's what I think

23:26Ryan Hunn: yeah I think also just it depends on the draw right for example I think that if England play Mexico in SoFi actually no that's a bad because that would basically be like a home game well this is the problem right I think that actually England playing Mexico anywhere would have been like a home game for Mexico. But I think with the added, if it had been, say, in Vancouver or Toronto or potentially even just like one of those couple of stadiums in the US, then it wouldn't have been such a challenge. It still would have been very, very difficult because it's Mexico and they are one of the host nations.

24:02Ryan Hunn: but I think playing them at the Azteca, it's like being some, it's like in like an old kind of, you know, epic where someone is summoned to someone else's castle as opposed to meeting them somewhere else. Oh, let's be clear. That tie had a World Cup. If you had like a coefficient difficulty rating, that tie was a World Cup semifinal level of difficulty. Yeah. In my opinion, in terms of what that was. There should be like slope games in football, right? Like in golf, for example, as well. Each course has a par, right? But it also has a slope rating because of how, you know, not every course is the same.

24:38Ryan Hunn: Can I throw in a hot take? I think Mexico at the Azteca is like an extremely high slope rating. And literally, ironically, slope, altitude, etc. keeping the same... See what we did there? I'm going to throw this hot take in there. That is the biggest challenge that a team has faced in terms of facing a host since Argentina beating Italy in 1990 in Italy. I think it's that level of I think relative to like the squad quality I think that's that's that similar level of difficulty actually in terms of what they pulled off I think it's a similar level of quality oh in terms of like winning the game yeah I think in terms of winning I think in terms of the type you can't count France can you I think that yeah I think that type of contest that type of difficulty I would put it up there in that bracket it was difficult it was really tricky because I think that Mexico also caused England under a load of problems in that last half hour and if you look at the breakdown of possession and chance creation next year and stuff like that from open play well especially after the penalty Mexico really Mexico really upped it in that final bit but that's understandable right England are 3-2 up they're player down they're going to dig in a little more I think the game state kind of played out exactly how you'd expected it to be and so just because I know that there will be some people being like well England dug in and they were really negative I think I think that's a game state thing.

26:02Ryan Hunn: And I think that this is a, there was also an energy, like an energy conservation element to the performance from England as well, which I think played into some of the stylistic elements of the game. And I think they just managed it really well. I don't think they, they didn't dig in and stink the place out. You know, they still play really, really football. Can I throw this in there? The one stat I think that says it, that says, oh, Dan Byrne plays 15 minutes and has the joint highest number of defences contributions. Yeah. That says, like just in terms of what the game is. It really ramped up at the end.

26:36Yeah. And where is the benefit? How often have we said, teams are naive, they left themselves open. Well, which is it? I know, this is it.

26:46Ryan Hunn: Well, no, this is the thing about modern football discourse though. No one is ever happy. And I think, look, on another day in Mexico, Nick won right at the end, it goes to extra time. And that's a very different game. But I think that just shows you the level of difficulty that playing Mexico and the Azteca was. So, look, no, Mexico will be really, really disappointed to go out for sure. Like, there's no shame in that. And I don't think, I don't think, also on the other side of that, not wanting to fence it, but I don't think it would have been any shame if England had gone out to Mexico and Mexico City at all.

27:21No, and can I give another shout, one more shout to Mexico, specifically Gilberto Mora, a 17-year-old. Yeah. Wild. Playing in front of 80 ,000 of your own fans and emerging with so much credit. 17 years old, we're going to be seeing so much more of him. Obviously, it's difficult to watch him with the hours as they are in Europe, but I'll be keeping an eye on his progress because what a player. Dude, I just, I cannot even fathom, if you look at how popular a sport football is in Mexico, to have emerged through all of that, to be a 17-year-old starting in the biggest game that your country has played in a while are just unreal unreal but and also

28:05Ryan Hunn: just a shout final shout to julian cuñones yes absolutely absolutely and it ends with four goals and assists for the tournament yeah just a really good performance throughout the whole tournament in a tournament when a tournament where attackers have really brought it to still stand out it says everything. For sure.

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29:37Ryan Hunn: So England will face Norway in Miami on Saturday. Norway eliminated Brazil 2-1 in New York right in the New York New Jersey stadium on paper looks like an upset but it didn't feel like an upset at all I'm annoyed at myself I tell you why because I did this like prediction game with my godson and family and friends and I thought Norway would win this because I'm like they should win it because they're a better team yeah they're just a better team than brazil and brazil actually and i'll say this uh and if we have brazil fans listening i thought this was actually quite a merciful outcome because i think that again look i think it's match-ups right i think weirdly enough if mexico make it past if mexico made it past um england which was a completely realistic outcome i think brazil could have got absolutely cooked at some point whether it was this round or like stumbling through that at some point Brazil were going to get it absolutely handed to them because they were terrifyingly open.

30:45They were terrifyingly open for large stretches of this game. The thing I would say is, look, this Brazil team, there's going to be a lot of like wailing and gnashing of teeth. I would say, please don't be too harsh on the players or on the coach because the structural problems in Brazilian football, if you look at the players, if you look at what was available, who was available to them. The structural problems of Brazilian football are so deep that it's hard to see what configuration of players emerge with a better outcome than this. Look, I think they could have squeezed past Norway. I think two things can be true.

31:18Yes, they could have squeezed past them if they'd taken an early chance or a late chance. But I think that at some point that's only kicking the can down the road. And then you end up with a traumatic thrashing, which thankfully this generation of Brazil players avoided. But they were really due a hiding, Ryan. they were due a hiding at some point and Norway to their credit from their goal to their front line the way they contained Brazil actually the way they contained them I thought Vinicius and I want to give credit where it's due because it's easy just to be critical Vinicius one of his best games for Brazil in the big match for a while I still think unfortunately we just need we need Brazil wingers who are going to use their right foot on the right wing and their left foot on the left wing this cutting inside business.

32:06If you don't have flying fullbacks, Ryan, it's not going to cut it at this level. It's not going to cut it. But the thing they've got to do, they've got to figure out why, as a team, which used to control games from the middle, right? Brazil teams have won World Cups or the first couple of World Cups in particular. They had players controlling the midfield. And in recent tournaments, they've handed that away. And this idea that Brazil teams are just, oh yeah, we're just flair. We just, no. Brazil 1970 go and re-watch that they had Clodoaldo they had Jess on they had players that could take this thing out of matches for long periods they need to get that back Ryan and if it's going and getting I was talking to my friends before in the chat going like if it means going to the sporting director at PSG and going how do we develop players how do we develop players from the ground up we need a 20 year plan because if it doesn't if that doesn't happen the CBF is going to be here every four years wondering why it went wrong and blaming coaches wherever they're from for not bringing on the flair player for the last 10 minutes of scrambled chaos and magic.

33:09Anyway, sorry. End transmission, but I had to say that.

33:13Ryan Hunn: Because I was thinking about this because a few people hyped Brazil for a tournament because of the Ancelotti factor as well. And I get that. I hoped for Brazil, yeah. And I think that I think this was probably about par. You know, this or the quarterfinals I think was as far as I could really see them going. And that's just because I don't think they have, they don't really have like the options. They don't, you know, it's quite wild that a Brazilian midfield in 2026 shouldn't suffer that much if you take Lucas Paquitar out of it and have, and it probably shouldn't still be relying on Casemiro at this stage.

33:54Ryan Hunn: And so, you know, I think defensively they were all right. not amazing. I think they just lacked any real sense of midfield control and that just had a knock-on effect of the forward play. They just looked like they were a little bit stretched by the end of the Norway game. And you can see that in the fact that they're bringing Neymar on. And I know it was him bowing out and he got that penalty and he had a bit of trash talking to sign off on, but I felt like it was quite... Yeah, I think it was just a bit it just felt a bit almost like muted it was just almost a bit muted like how they're exit like I think Brazil you're kind of used to Brazil exits being quite grand occasions really because it feels like a seismic thing and this just didn't but I think that's probably just where they are in this current cycle of Brazilian football on the men's side especially at the top international side this will sound like quite a damning indictment right but that interview I referred earlier the Sid Lowe one in the Guardian where Luis Dele Fuente says we have the best midfield in the world, respectfully, and they do.

35:02And he said, look at the depth we have at each position. And he named Pedri, Zubimendi, Rodri, Gavi. If you look at the Brazil starting 11, I'm not going to name names. There are players in that starting 11 who should be the second option for a World Cup winning team. I'm not saying these players should not be in the squad for a World Cup winning team. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that. A Brazil team where talent is developed properly a lot of these players should be the second option should be the deputy and the reason they're not is that there's been a failure of coaching grassroots development in brazil and that is ultimately coming to the surface because if you the reason we talk about france and spain consistently as the teams that we think are the teams that should go over this trophy is because of the depth it's not saying those teams will win it's saying that whoever overcomes them has to be a little bit against the odds.

35:56Just because, I mean, you look at, we'll talk about France in a second, but you look at Desiree Douai coming in and doing what he did against Paraguay for all the talk about low blocks being hard to break down and Douai having struggled himself. To do what he did against Paraguay, to win a penalty like that, that's the level. And I'm not saying Brazil don't have that level of quality. I'm saying that France can rely on it consistently. And Brazil just can't. Brazil just can't rely on someone that consistently, players that can consistently provide solutions. They can't rely on that.

36:27Ryan Hunn: I think, for example, you know, the reliance on Vinicius Junior to do something in this World Cup was a bit too, it was just a bit too much. I think Vinicius is obviously a great player, Vinicius Junior. Yeah. I don't think he's ever struck me as the senior, I think he thrives when there's someone else senior around him. The weight of that shirt is very, very heavy. and I think it was just a bit too much and a bit too soon for this iteration of the Brazil of like the Brazilian national side right I think that if you if you think the next cycle they will have got rid of a couple of the more experienced heads like Casemiro won't be there at the World Cup I don't think Marquinhos will be he might be because he's kind of just doesn't ever seem to age Marquinhos yeah and he will be 36 at the next World Cup so it's not unthinkable that he you know he doesn't look like someone who's slowing down it would not surprise me if he was still playing international football in four years time and that man needs a job at the CBF as soon as he retires by the way as soon as he because that man's contact book is ridiculous yeah and also you're gonna you know Hendrick's gonna be four years older and hopefully would have kicked on to the level that people hope he will do he had that one I felt like that was a big moment for him that chance when he came on and just that final touch before the finish was just I'm heartbroken for him because could have been his career career altering yeah yeah it would have been and I'm heartbroken for him because his ascent through football his challenges struggles under Ancelotti he's tried to make everything work in Europe going on loan to Lyon and that touch I hate it's horrible it's horrible to say that so much can come down to one moment but that was the moment because I think even weirdly I think if Brazil take the lead early on I think it's too early well the penalty needs to get dispatched that's it the thing about that is that it's such a poor penalty yeah and if you were going to just come to this game and look at the highlights and then look at the stats you'd be like well hang on a minute Brazil had over 1.5 more xG than Norway but if you look at their non-penalty xG it's 0.01 less than Norway so Norway kind of matched them had all the ball but yeah that's the difference right you don't know I mean to be honest I'm not entirely sure that the result would have been any different if Brazil had taken the lead because I think Norway were just so you know when you've got Erling Haaland you'd look at the first Haaland goal right and that kind of comes from he's the only person really there and he's against Gabriel not the greatest marking to be honest not the greatest marking it's not the best ball in in the world either but Haaland has to do quite a bit but I mean, it's amazing.

39:20Ryan Hunn: And then his second one, you think you've got it contained and you just look, it goes through Danilo's legs. And that split, that is, that is the margin, but the finish is so good. It's like Yannick Sinner. It's a Yannick Sinner forehand. It's just, it's one of those ones where you're standing, you're standing on the baseline and you can't stop it. Yeah. Alisson is one of the best, one of the best shot stoppers in world football, right? Still one of the best shot stoppers in world football. And he's actually well placed, for that. One thing I want to talk about a little bit is the footwork of goalkeepers in this tournament for the most part has been spectacular.

39:53Pickford's footwork against Mexico for one of the saves, he dips over the bar. It's so good that by the time he dips it over, it looks like a routine save, but it's because his feet are so well placed. Alisson's footwork, very, very good, but there was nothing he could do about what Haaland did. I mean, it was like watching someone, it was like watching someone unleash, it was like watching spearfishing or something. It was that level of precision where he lines it up and because Haaland has so much physical power and because his like you know technique is so strong he doesn't look like he's hitting it that hard but actually what he's doing is he's hitting with his entire body like his entire body the

40:33Ryan Hunn: other day I was walking past the pond and I saw a heron and he was just oh I love this and at first I couldn't tell if it was a statue or an actual heron and then just out of nowhere it just kind of goes and starts like munching down a fish and that's the haul and that's the haul and go like it's just you know what's so funny about that i can imagine like as it caught the fish 10 other herons came and surrounded it and it just stood there a mobile what it actually did was there was a wildlife photographer there and what the heron actually did was it side-eyed the world the wildlife photographer did a haul and look down the lens smirk after it just

41:19turned to the riverbank and there's like 50 ,000 herons like the rowing celebration heron giving it the big one and BBC wildlife

41:31Ryan Hunn: like the BBC wildlife update this heron is inevitable

41:42anyway sorry anyway where were you um yeah let's get this podcast back on track can i say this um seven goals now for each of the top scorers in this tournament cool isn't it the quality of finishing that we've seen in different forms they've done it all in different ways i think tyron re uh did a great breakdown of holland's game and I think some people might have thought that he was being unduly negative he was like look Haaland the thing I love about him is he doesn't he stays in his lane he doesn't do things that aren't part of his game and I think this is a perfect example of like and it was a compliment from Henry this is the pure minimalism of the finisher right this is what he was evolving into a man city very very few touches but not because he's not a brilliant footballer it's because he's doing what all the great basketball players do, he knows how to get to his spots.

42:34He knows how to get to his spots. You know, Jude Bellingham, three attempts in the game against Mexico, three on goal. Like, football minimalism, and Haaland as well, and maybe this is the story of the round, like, minimal efforts, maximum efficiency. And so dangerous, because what that guy does to, like, the defensive gravity, there are players that will come off that pitch going, actually, you know, I had a decent game, but this guy cooked us. Marquinhos actually it was quite good Marquinhos was quite good in this game and couldn't get near Elling Haaland when it mattered that's it that's all you need at this level so incredible from him seven goals moved me alongside Messi and Mbappe and we're not even well we've just reached the quarters unbelievable and to be honest for those listening as well this is when the quarter finals onwards is often when the truly great players go into another gear yeah That's the incredible thing about this tournament so far.

43:31It normally takes until this point for them to heat up, but they've done it already.

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44:48Ryan Hunn: a couple of other games the other one of the other quarterfinals will be France-Morocco which is going to be unbelievable Morocco eliminating Canada with a 3-0 victory, very comfortable for Morocco I think that's just the thing about the better teams in the tournament, especially when you get into the knockouts is that it might look close for the first 20 minutes or half an hour or so but they just have an ability to separate it and that's what Morocco did in this game Jesse Marsh afterwards with a kind of very Jesse Marsh interview and he said that he would rather be us than them. And I was like, I'm not sure you would actually, dude.

45:30Ryan Hunn: I think you'd rather be in a World Cup quarter-final. What did he even mean by that? I don't know, man. I don't know, but it was just, I'm so sad. At this point, unless players, unless coaches actually clarify what they mean, I'm just going to take the worst possible interpretation. But I would love actually someone to follow up like a sideline report, like whoever's doing the interview to actually follow up and just be like, what do you mean by that? Because I would love to get where their head's at. Because it's just, what? Like, you'd rather be, what? That reminds me of, you know, was it the coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers against the Knicks who said, statistically, we should be leading this series and they were like losing 3-0.

46:06And he's like, we should actually be winning. It's like, well,

46:08Ryan Hunn: nerd nonsense. What are you doing? What are you doing? Analytics? What are we talking about? Like, okay, so this is what Jesse Marsh said. Man, we were the better team. We were the better team, right? They made a couple more plays than us, but cranking up the intensity was not the issue. It was just that they had a little bit of quality in the final third and we lacked little ability to make a play when we needed to. But in terms of the match plan, in terms of the idea of how we want to play football, the idea of a bunch of guys believing in themselves and going after it, like the game was basically ours, he said.

46:37I just, that's not true. And it's also, it's okay just to say, fair play Morocco. This is why they went to the final of the AFCON. this is why they were World Cup semi-finalists. Weirdly enough, in talking up his team, he was actually talking down the quality of what Canada brought to this tournament, slightly.

46:59Ryan Hunn: In the second half, Canada had six shots. One of them, one of them came before the Morocco goal. After that, 90 minutes, 78 minutes, 96 minutes, 84 minutes, 79 minutes. so basically there are only two or three shots that Canada had in that second half before Morocco were like 2-0 up so the game state leans into that so you can look at the analytics and you can look at the stats and be like hey we created XYZ or we had this amount but Morocco once they got past that first what like yeah admittedly Canada had more chances in the first half I think they came out a little bit brighter but nothing felt super duper duper troubling from Morocco really yeah yeah I don't know man I don't know I think he's just leaned a little bit too much into the kind of like right he called him performative on ITV and I kind of agree with him there's just a bit there where it's just like look you're not fooling it feel do you know what it felt like and I don't want to kind of add a load of um meaning to something that it isn't it but it felt like to me that he underestimated how much the audience that he was doing that speech to actually knows about football.

48:19Ryan Hunn: I was a bit like, dude, they know more about football than this suggests. They're going to see through your nonsense here a little bit. Yeah, they're disappointed to go out, but also I think the thing for me is that there's so much positivity that's come from this campaign for Canada. You don't have to do all of this other stuff. You can just be like, look, we've kind of achieved some really big goals here. We've won our first World Cup game for the men. We've got out of the group for the first time. We've gone the furthest that we've ever been in a Men's World Cup. There's so many positives here.

48:50Ryan Hunn: We're just kind of one or two cycles away from going really deep. But we feel like this has been a really transformative campaign. Morocco were a great side. Technically, the AFCON holders, they went further than any African side has gone in a Men's World Cup before. In the previous tournament, this is a really good team. Exactly. There's no shame in going out to this team. and we can be proud of what we've done but we've still got loads of work to do. That, to me, is perfect. Shame they got the third goal late on because I feel like a 2-0, not so much a 3-0. But apart from that, you know, blah, blah, blah.

49:26Ryan Hunn: Fine, pay them a load of respect but I would rather be us than them and all of this kind of shit. It's like, what are you talking about? That's so weird. That's such a weird thing to say. Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure you'd know. I think you'd rather be in the quarterfinal of the World Cup. So just weird, man. But anyway, Morocco are going to face France, who got past Paraguay. In one of the wildest things I've ever seen in a World Cup, Paraguay somehow got through this game without a single booking. Yes. Whereas France had three. I'm going to, can I be like, look, some might say, oh, conspiracy theories.

50:03Actually, when I look at games like this, and when I look at, we're going to discuss something else a bit later in relation to decisions and all the rest of it. Like, I'm struggling to understand a rational reason why Paraguay did not acquire at least one yellow card in this game. I agree. I'm struggling to see it because the amount of, and it's not even provocation, right? They were elbowing France players running at reasonable speed. Elbowing. And Mbappe mentioned, you know, they thought we were going to come and play with tuxedos on, which I thought was an incredible quote. like

50:37Ryan Hunn: he's been quite he's said some pretty good stuff for the tournament Mbappe do you know what's funny yeah about sports betting as well do you know what's funny about this right like if anybody thought that Kylian Mbappe was born with a silver spoon in his mouth I invite them to go and watch Mbappe just put into go to YouTube if you get a moment and just type in Mbappe and Coupe de France right and you will see Kylian Mbappe going and playing against teams from like the 3rd and 4th division and absolutely torching them This is somebody who is completely comfortable playing against agricultural levels of defending, who relishes it actually, who always turns up, always turns up.

51:15And if they thought that he wasn't going to turn up for a scrap in a World Cup game, like I've said this many times, one of my favorite France performances was France to Uruguay nil in the 2018 World Cup when they were playing the white kit. And Pogba was immense in midfield. and basically Uruguay tried to put France into the weight room and Pogba and Kante were like no dice and actually in that game funnily enough Mbappe was not really toughing up in that game I've got to say he was hiding behind the big brothers but this was his graduation

51:46Ryan Hunn: yeah I mean he was also this game was his graduation he was 18 19 yeah but the amount of times he ran into heavy traffic in this game the amount of time he ran into huge challenges never backed down was relentless and we know all about Paraguay right We've been watching them for a while at this World Cup and well, at the World Cups where they've twice pushed eventual winners very, very close. They did it in 98 against France to extra time. When Spain beat them in 2010, they were asking Xavi after the game, oh, like, why didn't you do this in that better? And he said, they gave us a spectacular defensive system, right?

52:23They are the proud inheritors of a legacy, Paraguay, of being very tough to break down. I will say this in those previous tournaments they did not go beyond the pale I want to honour those teams that came before this Paraguay team I think is a bit different they were a bit more limited than those teams of previous years and I think in order to compensate for those limits they went into areas that I thought went beyond the boundaries of fair play and consistently so

52:51Ryan Hunn: weirdly I don't have a huge amount of criticism for the individual players for that because I just feel like that needs to just get checked early on in the game. And if it's checked early on in the game, it changes because they know that there are consequences for it. I think that when you're in that mentality anyway, we've seen it with numerous teams before, when the referee loses control of the game or doesn't set out quite clearly that certain things aren't acceptable early on, the game just spirals. And this spiraled. The fact that Barcala, Kone and Alise were the only three players who got booked in this game is absolutely wild.

53:23Ryan Hunn: And there was a funny thing that Mbappe did early on in the game. you remember that first kickoff in the game where he pushes someone and then immediately puts his hands up and just kind of starts laughing or like like kind of being like um yeah i think france deserved a lot of credit for how they handled this genuinely i think this win yeah will have done more for france than if they'd cruised through this 4-0 oh they needed a game like this yeah they look absolutely they needed a game where they had to push through and i i fully expected it to be a single goal margin. Well, one or two goals, you know, maximum.

54:01I just think Paraguay, what they've done defensively, so, so good. And France needed to get a bit of a bloody nose, not literally, but in terms of like a skirmish that you come through. Yeah. A metaphorical bloody nose. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know that you can, because they might've got some real ones for real. So this performance, I think, I mean, what does it really teach us about France's capabilities? is not that much, actually. What, you play a low block against France, they won't get much change out of you. They might try some shots from distance. Okay, great, but the way that Desiree Duhay moved inside to win that penalty, that guy put together two or three combinations.

54:42The fluidity of the dribbling. The fluidity of the dribbling. The first touch when he beats the first defender

54:47Ryan Hunn: is the key one of that whole thing because... Because they're scrambling after that. Exactly, 100%, dude. I knew you'd go to, dude. I knew you'd go to. I knew you'd go to. Oh my God. The moment he does. It just triggers. You can actually see it on the replay. You can see everyone else tighten up. And there are like four defenders that he's coming towards and everyone's like, uh-oh. Frightened. No one. Pure panic stations. And it's such an amazing touch as well to beat them. It's so good. It's so good. Because he enters it. He enters the situation. It's like he enters the area and he's moving at that speed.

55:25And it's like, which one of you wants it? Someone's going to fancy this. Someone's going to buy it. Someone's going to buy it. And he just, Oh, he sells it perfectly. It's absolutely mind blowing. And it's funny because if you go back, those who are like, you know, all over Tik TOK and Instagram, there's a bit where it's Desiree doing, he's showing kids, fellow kids, fellow kids. He's showing Michael Elisa a dribbling technique, right? And it's basically a combination move. and you see him put together, again, it's not just the fact that he has one trick. It's the fact that he has three in quick succession.

55:59I defy any defender. I defy any group of defenders to stop that guy doing that at that speed. It's just, it's out of this world. And it was so fitting that that was the moment of quality that decided the game. So fitting, actually. Man.

56:18Ryan Hunn: Loved it. I loved it. Just quickly, since we last spoke, Colombia beat Ghana 1-0 in the final round of 32 game. So the games coming up, we have Spain-Portugal tonight, or Portugal-Spain. We also have USA-Belgium, which we'll segue onto in a little bit. And then Argentina-Egypt, Switzerland-Colombia are the final round of 16 games. So let's move on to the USA, because Belgium are set to appeal the decision to suspend Balogun's red card suspension. So Balogun was sent off in the previous game. We talked about it. We thought the decision was a poor one and that the red card seemed harsh. However, FIFA have activated this clause or like one of the things, I think it's the same process that they used for Cristiano Ronaldo's red card against Ireland, if I'm not mistaken, which meant that he, instead of being suspended for the first two group games of the tournament he was then free to play in them so for me before i pass it over because i think i imagine you're feeling the same way from the from the the the headline is i feel that the balagan red card was a really poor one and i don't think players should be sent off for that especially when they're not making a tackle or even like an action towards the opposition player they're just trying to land yeah i think this, what has happened though and especially the reporting around it, there's some great reporting on Politico and in The Athletic about the process that triggered this with heavy involvement or lobbying from the White House.

57:59Ryan Hunn: Yes. This kickstarts such a dangerous precedent in football, in the World Cup and it feels like the moment that we were waiting for in the tournament for something like this to happen where those two were, because it's actually felt like those two worlds have managed to stay surprisingly far apart in the tournament. More so, in terms of those particular individuals directly interacting, if you know what I mean. Yes. I think it's a really bad look, personally. And the fact that it was decided without much communication is a major problem. Because what happened with the Cristiano Ronaldo one felt very much just like, there aren't the consequences of those actions just don't really feel like they're they're present if the governing body just can can kind of make it up as they go along now i know that there is a clause in in the rule book about this and it gives them leeway to do it if they want to it's so brazen yes that it makes me feel it just kind of makes you it's just another one of these kind of like what's the point what's the point in all this actually yeah and i think I think stepping back from all of it because it's so brazen and look I want to just address this first of all some comments part part some of them whether they're dunking on something I posted on Blue Sky or whether oh my god what a painful thing that is or whether they're like just critiquing football or generally going oh like but the World Cup has always been corrupt there's always been corruption in the World Cup okay here's the thing yes now also let's step back and think about that do you really want to be associated in making that comment with authoritarian governments?

59:45Because those are the governments under whom the World Cup has been corrupt, right? The World Cup is only the expression of the nation hosting it, right? There are some tournaments that are hosted in healthy democracies, and they accord to those. And there are others that are not hosting healthy democracies, and they accord to those. The World Cup ultimately takes the form, takes the shape at the place where it's being hosted because football, as much, especially the World Cup, cannot exist without the context within which it's operating. So if you're going, oh, well, it's corrupt like Argentina 78, imagine what you're actually saying there.

1:00:21Imagine what you're saying about the nature of your leadership and what you're comfortable with in terms of normalization, right? This is why people are wary of the tournament being hosted primarily in the US under this administration. They were right to be like that. And for all the talk about oh my god what a glorious world cup i had a cousin writing to me going oh how do you feel about the world cup now almost like you were saying the start of the tournament you were a bit underwhelmed how do you feel now and i was like hmm actually let me think about this senegal couldn't have all of their fans there court d 'ivoire could not have all of their fans there d.r congo photographers d.r congo could have all of their fans there like iran yeah actually i feel pretty bad about yeah yeah the list goes the list goes on and so like actually, how do I feel about it?

1:01:03I feel that it's gross. I feel that it's disgusting. I feel that a great tournament could be even greater if it hadn't been desecrated, actually. I feel this is a further rundown. If anything, this World Cup has been far better and far worse than I could have imagined simultaneously. And when I say far better, I mean in the best possible sense, right? The players, the fans, the performances, the atmospheres, the new friendships, it's been far better and that's been a credit to all those people but it's been far worse at the same time and this is a good example and now Balogun right is this in the position of like he has to play this game he has to play the best of his ability and I worry there'll be an individual focus on the players or even the coaches I think I think that Pochettino as well if we put a pin in this has to be ashamed of his comments his comments about ethics and this being an ethical decision to overturn this decision, right?

1:01:58Because it was, he needs to get a lot of attention for that. And I fear that he won't in the churn of sports media. I feel like what he actually said will not get the right analysis. But what I think he said was actively spiteful. He could have ducked it. He could have said, we're prepping for the next game. This is an unexpected bonus for us. We were planning for a game without a follower in. He's obviously very important to us. We're moving forward. He could have gone with that. But to use the language of trust and ethics. Someone referred to it in the Discord as Trumpian language. It is absolutely that, actually.

1:02:34And I'm going to go so far as to say this is strong language, but actually I found it kind of nasty. In the context of everything right now happening in America, I found it kind of nasty. And I'm like, you know what, actually, they say keep politics out of football. When politics is exerting itself, when politics is actively inserting itself into football at every turn, I think it deserves to be called out and he cannot be called out enough and look there are there are there are people in the discord American fans fans of this this brilliant US team I think it's a fantastic team going how we meant to feel now look I'm not telling anybody how to feel right I'm the last person to police people's specific feelings right celebrations I police yes but I'm not going to please how people feel about this right I will police celebrations all day Neymar I'm policing you against Norway I'm absolutely policing that but what I will say is this like I feel such a profound sense of disquiet about this because here's the thing Ryan I don't think this is the last gross intervention we're going to see in this tournament

1:03:37Ryan Hunn: no I agree yeah I've got a horrible feeling it's yeah it's not the worst we're going to see yep I agree um I think that it there's a sense of um but I I completely agree with everything you said. I think that the tournament, we've talked about this before, right? Football always finds a way. The footballers and the fans and the people who are actually, the people who actually make football what it is, no matter what the circumstances are, they will make the best of that situation. At the end of the day, it's a World Cup. And a common thing I've seen through the World Cup is that the World Cup doesn't belong to FIFA, really.

1:04:17Ryan Hunn: They own the license to manage the tournament and stuff like that but as an entity and as a spectacle and as an occasion it doesn't belong to them it belongs to literally everyone else and players dream of playing in a world cup you know um like we've seen some of the worst situations um in a sporting sense be be kind of around or in a world cup and uh the players and the fans have made the most of it and still provided the magic that makes this tournament right yeah you can have both of those things and it's not a complex it's not a complex thing to carry the tournament itself and the some of the football has been amazing some of the stories have been unbelievable and yet it's like and yet right and it's and that's not because of fifa or because of infantino it's it's in spite of that right yes yes and so despite active active efforts in spite of that yeah exactly and people who have yeah and people the fans and the and the players is have a huge amount of credit for that and some teams and squads in particular who have had to deal with quite dehumanising situations around this tournament have held themselves, have carried themselves in such a way that they didn't have to.

1:05:31Ryan Hunn: Unbelievable. And I think that what happens is with things like this, it's not about Balogun, it's not about the US men's national team, it's not about any of that. It could have been any team, any player. And as I mentioned before, the same thing happened with Cristiano Ronaldo after the red card against Ireland and it was just as gross then. It's basically like the rules don't matter if they mess with FIFA's big show. Yes, exactly. Gianni Fantino for years has been forged in this relationship with Trump. And I think that rightly or wrongly, whether it is come from that directly or indirectly, it doesn't actually matter.

1:06:07Ryan Hunn: It is a factor and the vagueness around it is really damaging. It's even more damaging for FIFA. and the fact that you now have probably their biggest competitor in terms of an actual confederation come out and release such a scathing statement against them. UEFA released a statement about an hour ago saying yesterday's decision to suspend a probationary period of a year the implementation of the one match automatic suspension following the red card issued to the player following Balogun crossed a red line. Football like any other sports relies on rules which are the basis for fair, honest and transparent competition.

1:06:39Ryan Hunn: Sometimes rules are open to interpretation in this case not um at the very end of the it goes on and on and on but at the end it says we express our disbelief at such an unprecedented incomprehensible and unjustifiable decision and don't get me wrong we've seen we've seen match rigging match fixing at other tournaments we've seen it and again to make that point we've seen it under authoritarian governments so so if you go oh yeah well whatever then you're telling on yourselves you're saying them actually this stuff is fine and it's not it's not fine and I think there's a lot of I get very concerned because there's going to be conversation defensiveness about oh are you just saying this because we're the US this is that actually no like we've been watching football for a while I had to have some comments the other day I had to push back on some stuff going well actually this happened at Qatar and that's news to me because I remember watching those games and being critical of what was happening in Qatar and it's like can we just have an honest conversation about the direction of football and what is better for the game and what's worse for the game.

1:07:38Because now, again, these US players, the men's national team, they have their whole campaign tarnished by this. And their frustration must be, look, we won without Pulisic. We won impressively without Pulisic earlier in this tournament. We could have won without Balogun, right? And we don't get the chance to prove that as a football team that wants to prove itself on the grand stage. Some won't care about this. Some will say, well, actually, victory is all that matters. Well, let me say one thing. The bill comes due, Ryan, at some point. The bill comes due for winning at all costs. And I think the problem with this particular moment is it comes at the heart of a series of moves of just going, this is how it's going to be, screw you.

1:08:26And I'm not saying that's unsustainable in the short term, but the optimist in me says it's unsustainable in the long term actually and it's not just a problem for Infantino like long after he's gone it's going to be a huge problem for FIFA actually it's going to be a huge problem for them

1:08:43Ryan Hunn: so Grinchka in 1962 sent off overturned allowed to play in the final and he was pivotal he was pivotal but the thing is just because things like this haven't have you know even if they have happened before and they're very very rare like we're in 2026 like we're supposed to know more we're supposed to have learnt from previous mistakes like what are we doing and I think the thing is now it's just that any remotely controversial or you know maybe harsh red card you're just going to see people people like highlight this as a reason to try and overturn it and it's just going to be messy and to be honest and rightly so rightly so actually because that's what you have a Belgium have a right Belgium are apparently going to appeal it and they have until I think it's 5 a.m.

1:09:40Ryan Hunn: Pacific time today to lodge the appeal but I can't see it getting overturned but it's just it's just I think it's just look it's just

1:09:52Ryan Hunn: two wrongs don't make a right you know yeah yeah yeah totally and I just it just creates a real it's a dampener it's a dampener on a tournament that actually you know it is it's giving people no room to be excited by it because it's forcing you to go look here is the context in which this tournament is being played keeps inserting itself into this discourse it keeps doing it they can't they can't leave a good thing alone they just can't can't help themselves can't help themselves this administration I feel really sorry for Balogun because yeah me too me too because I think that you know he's kind of then had he's been placed in the middle of like two shit shows yeah yeah sending off in the first place and that was just really you know he's then yeah I don't know then to be yeah oh man anyway we'll see exactly that's that's the perfect summary oh man yeah you know like I got nothing goodness me I got nothing yeah alright man let's roll let's do it let's do it we hope everyone's staying safe and well wherever you are don't forget if you are listening on the free feed you want to sign up to Stadion on Patreon go to patreon.com forward slash stadio sign up as a podcast member or a Stadion social club member you get every World Cup episode ad free in full and coming up on there this week we'll have two more we'll have one on Wednesday one on Friday and don't forget to if you want to come to our live show in London go and get the tickets link is in the description 23rd of July with Nish Kumar at the Southbank Centre it'd be great to see you there also we're going to talk about Jurgen Klopp today but we're going to wait because it's not confirmed yet so we're going to wait for when we have a bit more space to talk about that stuff so potential news of Jurgen Klopp going to Germany Julian Hargorsman's step down but we'll talk about that another time don't forget to check the Stadio Archers plays on Spotify speaking of which playing out on the Super Jata Band track called Tifali anything you'd like to add Musa Kwonga?

1:11:52nothing further

1:11:53Ryan Hunn: alright everyone much love have a great week back with you on Wednesday see you then

1:12:24. .

1:12:53Heart Tension

1:13:26Ryan Hunn: It's like a

1:13:36Ryan Hunn: Thank you.

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