World Cup 2026: Spain’s depth, first points, goals and wins

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2:34Musa Okwonga: Hello and welcome back to the Stadia Podcast. I'm Musa Kwonga. I'm Ryan Hun. Ryan, how are you doing? Doing alright, thanks man. How are you? I am well, but not as well as Cabo Verde. I'm not as well as that. I bet. Oh my goodness. Saw you last night, that was fun. Yeah, it was great. Really enjoyed the stream, the TIFO gang.

2:50Ryan Hunn: Yeah, so for those who don't know, Musa and I have joined the TIFO guys on their watch along last night and we're also on the podcast and we're also going to be joining them tonight on Monday's edition so if you want to come and watch us watch what game are we watching tonight Argentina or Austria yes and then I'm not sure if I'm doing the podcast tonight you definitely are so yeah come and watch that yeah other than that we hope everyone's staying safe and well wherever you are couple of tiny quick bits of admin don't forget to check the Southbank Centre live show tickets are on sale we're going to be joined by Nish Kumar in July the Thursday after the World Cup come and join us tickets are in ticket link is in the description and also if you listen to this on the free feed and you want to come and join us for every single world cup episode ad free in full you can go to patreon.com forward slash stadio sign up as a podcast member or if you want to get involved in the stadio social club as well in the discord it's been very fun through the world cup uh you can sign up as a stadio social club member there were three extra podcasts last week so only one on the free feed that's what you're missing out.

3:52Ryan Hunn: We usually, we're aiming to do three in total a week, so two extra ones on the Patreon feed, but we ended up doing three extra ones last week. And we'd be very, very glad to see you all over there. So patreon.com forward slash stadio if you want to sign up. And I reckon that's all the admin. So today we're going to talk about Spain. We're going to talk about Cape Verde or Cabo Verde. And we'll talk about Egypt's first World Cup win and and maybe a bit on Germany as well. A little touch of Curacao.

4:23Musa Okwonga: Why not?

4:24Ryan Hunn: Why not?

4:25Musa Okwonga: I've at it.

4:26Ryan Hunn: But we have to begin with Spain, I think. Yes, I think we have to. 4-0 over Saudi Arabia. And a performance, I mean, better or as good as their opening game against Cape Verde, but this time they just got the goals. They were able to go in 3-0 at halftime and take off Ayy Thabell and Laminya Maal to rest them for the second half, which is absolutely kind of like the perfect situation. Oethalbo was on a hat-trick. He set up Laminia-Marl's goal and then got to himself. He was probably Spain's best player in that first half just in terms of an all-round effectiveness and performance. Yeah, he was outstanding, dropping wide,

5:07Musa Okwonga: dropping deep to link up play. We know he's just like an amazing piece of connective tissue in that team. Very much an Arsenal footballer. Amazed he hasn't turned up there yet, but there's still time. There's still time. Leave him where he is. He's still a young man.

5:20Ryan Hunn: Leave him in Real Sociedad. Let him be, he's happy there. Why would you leave?

5:25Musa Okwonga: I'm sure various entreaties have been offered yet another Real Sociedad player to make his way. But yeah, he was brilliant. And Spain needed that very much. I think the difference here was starting with maybe a greater intensity in the final third than they showed against Cabo Verde. I think, I do think they underestimated a touch. Not from a place of complacency. I think that they thought that the patient approach would eventually break them down. But I think as their opposition showed in that first game, there's a bit more to them than that, actually. This is the thing. There's a lot of teams, I think Seb talked about this on the stream, Seb Stafford-Bloor.

6:02Musa Okwonga: The floor at this World Cup is higher than I think the most favoured teams anticipated.

6:09Ryan Hunn: I agree. And I think people expected it to not be that high with the expanded format. So I think that's been really good.

6:17Musa Okwonga: That's absolutely right. And I think even the opening goal, you look at that, it needed real quality to open them up. That ball from Ayah Tharbel is absolutely elite. And look, I've said this many times before in this podcast, you see what happens when you crash the box, crash the six-yard box. You have a player with Lemini-Miles technical ability who is not too proud to go in at the far post and anticipate a far post cross. I love to see it. I love to see it. So brilliant for them. And look, Saudi Arabia are a resilient side. They saw that. They showed that in the first game. grinding out the draw against Uruguay.

6:50So it seems like Spain are back on track. And also mitigation.

6:55Musa Okwonga: They didn't have the wide players they wanted to start that first game. Yeah, so looking promising. More like the Spain that we've come to fear in the last few years of a tournament.

7:06Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I mean, how do you feel about this so far? I mean, we've got quite a good look at a lot of people in the tournament. A number of teams haven't played their second games yet. But how's your feeling on Spain? It's that midfield, Ryan. it's ability to control games I mean we talked about it on the TIFO episode about the depth that they had on the bench I'll just read it out here because I think it's worth if anyone's missed it so they had the starting line up against Saudi Arabia but on the bench they had David Raya Joan Garcia, Eric Garcia, Mark Poubel Marcos Llorente, Alejandro Grimaldo Fabian Ruiz, Gavi Martin Zubamendi, Mikel Marino Jeremy Pino, Borja Inglesias Ferran Torres, Nico Williams Victor Munoz, I think I said Borja Inglesias I meant Borca Borca Iglesias Borca Iglesias

7:54Ryan Hunn: that feels like the most stacked non-starting personnel in the tournament even more than France I think and I said this actually well this is it I think so because I think that I think this is this is why I mean you just never know right because you never know how much depth is going to be needed in the tournament or who's going to feature but I just it's kind of terrifying

8:20Musa Okwonga: I think that they have Spain have you know as smart a coach as anyone at the tournament someone who can really shuffle the pack well I think if you look at France for example even on their bench they don't necessarily have they don't have a huge amount of midfield controllers in that conventional sense and I think it comes down to that in the tightest games you know if you look at tight games, quarters onwards. Games that would typically go for two hours. And Spain have the ability to just keep rotating the ball, exhausting their opponents in that heat. And especially with the extra game, this is the thing, there's an extra round in this World Cup, so fatigue comes into it.

9:02And I think a lot of players, look, it's been a pretty explosive start to this tournament,

9:07Musa Okwonga: we've seen a lot of goals. I wonder if those goals dry up in the later stages. They only say that because the 94 World Cup started out similarly, right? In the US, again, very hot conditions, around less. And by the closing stages, I mean, the final was played in sweltering heat, ended nil-nil, two hours. So I just, these are all variables to consider. And I still think Spain are the best equipped for that, actually.

9:30Ryan Hunn: Yeah, because I think we talked about it a little bit, about how it might be who is the fresher, because the tournament is so long. And it's not necessarily that you're, you know, you're only playing one extra game. but I think it's the the added week or so that's a lot of being away plus plus an extra week or so of training plus an extra kind of week or so of of mental pressure you don't know how that's gonna translate into performances or just wear and tear after a very long season and a very grueling season you know you look at some of the football that the amount of football that some of these people have played or a lot of these players have played and it's quite wild.

10:12Ryan Hunn: So I think having the ability to take off the mini mile for a half, because he's still coming back from injury as well, remember, I don't think we expected him to feature as soon as he did. I didn't expect him to come on in that first game. But the ability to keep those players fresh or play them into the tournament and still kind of get these performances. It feels like they are... I know that they drew the first game, but I feel like the performance was fine and you know if you look at how France kind of struggled against Senegal a little bit and you saw how France could could be kind of got at I still haven't really seen that yet with Spain Ruiz I know that the two I know that the two opposition I don't think you know they're not Senegal right but I just feel like they have the options to deal with probably more threats than anyone else in the tournament and to counter counter those threats in an attacking sense.

11:09Musa Okwonga: The bench is full of finishers. Like you say, like Marino is there, Williams, Ferran Torres, to a lesser extent, but still can get important goals. Gavi Zubimendi and Fabian Ruiz is a midfield three that could start for any, that could start for any country in the world. That's a World Cup midfield off the bench. That's how good it is. And I genuinely believe that. Look, it's hard to look past them as a favourite if it comes down to like match control. And I think it will come down to that actually. But yeah, let's see. And then, you know, again, that chasing pack, you've got France there. If we're doing kind of a power ranking, France, if they reconfigure and go with Michael Alisa, central and add a third midfielder and bring like a duo off the bench, I think France, if they go for like a midfield three of like Zaya Emery, Chouamaini, and then one of Rabiot or Kante, I think it'll probably be Rabiot with Kante off the bench or something.

12:03Musa Okwonga: That I think is, I think that is France's best form. and a pretty scary proposition, I think, for anybody. Yeah, I agree. But yeah, Spain played themselves back into, played themselves back into form, credit to them.

12:16Ryan Hunn: Elsewhere in that group, let's talk about Uruguay, Cabo Verde. Because this game was mega fun.

12:24Musa Okwonga: I was, you know, I've got to say, first of all, incredible result for Cabo Verde. Like, unbelievable. And I've got to say as well, apologies for being a doubter, but they took the lead, and it was outstanding. I was worried when it got to 2-1 on the stroke of halftime to Uruguay for them. I thought that, I was like, they're not coming back from that. Even with all the football they played, just because they played some great football. But I think my bias is still towards when an established team takes the lead in a tournament like this. Do they have a second goal in them? But they absolutely didn't.

12:59Musa Okwonga: And it was funny because on ITV, watching on there, they were like, they literally said just before Varela scored, they were like Cabo Verde like increasing the press turning up the heat getting some more confidence and they absorbed so much pressure after half time it was so impressive actually like they played two very different games at this World Cup they played against Spain and they absorbed pressure they played on the front foot many points they were like the primary aggressor in that first half they were really like on top of Spain

13:27Ryan Hunn: well I mean their equaliser you saw like to be honest I think the equaliser the second goal was so good yeah totally totally because it was they were like pressing Uruguay high and they win the ball back but the touch and finish from there is that's really difficult to do I think it looks like a much easier finish than it is yeah

13:44Musa Okwonga: and you're forcing experienced players into really bad mistakes like making Olivera play like that across his own goal from playing out like that's that's panic because you're looking up and you're seeing the Cabo Verde press coming at you like no I'm not going to hit it long I'm not going to play it there the lack of confidence to just go along with that and then just they created so much chaos because I think that they're up on you in a what they do is Cabo Verde they do this thing where they have a low block but they they come out of it really fast they play out of it really confidently actually reminded me a bit of um some of the PSG stuff in the latest stages of Champions League where like Vitinha is on his six-yard box and is looking for the right outlet pass and I think that Uruguay came unstuck because maybe they did not heed the lessons of the Spain game where actually if you watch that game back the only time Cabo Verde don't get behind is because they don't play like quite the right pass, the final pass, playing out on the halfway line.

14:38Musa Okwonga: But basically all the buildup is so, so good. And I think Uruguay just weren't, they never got on top of it, which I think for a Bielsa team is quite a damning indictment. Yeah. Do not see that. But yeah, a great game. Another point for Cabo Verde and now two points. They could get out of the group. They could. They could.

14:59Ryan Hunn: If they beat Saudi Arabia, which to be honest, they won't be complacent either. Yeah, but having seen the two performances so far, not unthinkable. Not unthinkable.

15:12Ryan Hunn: Can you imagine if they got out of this group automatically? It's unbelievable. It would probably be one of the all-time World Cup achievements, surely. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

15:24Musa Okwonga: There's no comparable recent achievement to that. There's not. I think Senegal 2002. I think that is the one, actually. Senegal going to the quarters, actually. Yeah, yeah. No, but only because that, I think.

15:38Ryan Hunn: Do you know why I say that? I still think, I still think like as amazing as that was though, I still think in terms of.

15:46Musa Okwonga: There's a similar trajectory because if you look at like both teams, like what Cabavetti have done is they've improved gradually. Even they haven't qualified for AFCON. There's always been a shift forward in the playing style, the resilience of the team. I actually compare this in terms of their growth. I compare it to like Algeria moving through the gears, 2010 World Cup and 2014, like gradual improvement, getting more used to gameplay, tournament match play. You know, Senegal didn't come out of nowhere in 2002. They had been building, a lot of those players had played like obviously football, domestic football in France.

16:22Musa Okwonga: They got to know their opponents. So it was, again, it was the culmination of years of hard work. Yeah, this, I think maybe this is even more so because even if you look at that Senegal team, some of them went on to like start in different teams, like bigger teams. I'm not sure necessarily that this Cabo Verde team has those big transfers in it. I think it's just a selection of very well-drilled, technically competent players who are deeply passionate about what they're doing. So I think in that sense, it feels like maybe one of the greatest World Cup stories. It's already a top 10 story, let's be honest.

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17:35Ryan Hunn: And she can get everything they need when they need it. Greg loves wheat crackers, Brenda Crave sour candy, and Max, oh boy. He needs protein bars and milk and applesauce and jerky. Built for your business. Who knew?

17:50Ryan Hunn: Should we transition on to another amazing World Cup story from this time, which is Egypt's first World Cup win. And they came from a goal down to beat New Zealand 3-1 in Vancouver. the goals from Zico, Mosala and Trezeguet.

18:04Musa Okwonga: Very un-Egyptian performance, this.

18:07Ryan Hunn: First World Cup win.

18:08Musa Okwonga: But very un-Egyptian. So like New Zealand, what I mean by that is Egypt at World Cups, traditionally, obdurate defence, not much in attack. Like that's a bit of a stereotype, but in terms of what they've generally produced at World Cups, very, very high defensive discipline, not much given away. They looked extremely nervy in the opening stages. New Zealand looked brilliant in the opening stages, took the lead and then could have got a second. And some of the passing out from the back, some of the defensive lapses from Egypt, things that we've really come not to expect from the side. But to their credit, they played with a real expansive style going forward.

18:45Musa Okwonga: Mo Salah's goal in particular was, it was like vintage Mo Salah. You know that, like the one-two. I love this celebration. You saw how much it meant to him. Oh yeah, totally. Very much like a vintage Mo Salah, like almost like, it's like the one-two that Messi loves so much as well. When you hammer it into feet and get the return pass from Zico. Great resilience for the comeback. And actually like the attacking tools, they've got Zico, Trezeguet, Marmouche and Salah. Those are four players that can really hurt you actually. And those are the most tools that Salah's had to work with, I think for a while at a major tournament.

19:19Musa Okwonga: So yeah, really good. Great win for them.

19:21Ryan Hunn: The first win in the group that we saw. So Egypt to top of that group, four points. Iran second on two points Belgium on two points and New Zealand are at the bottom on one point let's move on to the Belgium-Iran game because there was a red card in this game which could be quite important in terms of who goes through because there's like you know head-to-head and then like goals scored and goal difference and then fair play so we watched this on the TIFO live stream a really enjoyable game I thought Belgium I think they switched it on in the second half I think the first half was a little bit underwhelming they looked like they couldn't quite they were trying to do something and it wasn't working they couldn't figure out another idea but I think they definitely upped it in the second half and they looked like they created more opportunities and were getting into more dangerous situations but Iran had the best moment of the game with the free kick that was disallowed which was amazing like genuinely amazing it had us all been like whoa yeah the move for teramey's free kick so so good and yeah and they pulled it up afterwards because we were talking about we're like hang on a minute we've seen that before and it was the the netherlands free kick against argentina in the previous world cup basically the same move which is kind of i love seeing that i love seeing heritage homage yeah yeah just like i think it it would be so cool to just go back and pull out really really amazing free kick routines from previous tournaments just to try and surprise people and it worked a treat and it was you know just a backside away from being a goal and it would have been i think one of the best goals of the tournament just for how how well it was worked a few people lying behind walls now has

21:04Musa Okwonga: that like trend declined i don't know if it's a thing but maybe no no draft excluded because someone's obviously studying the numbers and been like actually it's really hard to go from a direct free kick a direct free kick because keepers are so good with the footwork but you have to find different ways of going at them because yeah, just conceding directly. I mean, you're not going to beat Thibaut Courtois from there unless you are Declan Rice and we don't have him. So yeah, a great attempt from Iran there. I thought Belgium, if we're looking at sort of countries that are more favored in this tournament, Belgium may be falling in the same trap as Spain, which is that our plan A is going to work at some point.

21:42Musa Okwonga: And the plan A wasn't effective primarily because, well, partly because Docker was missing health issues. but also because I think that Belgium thought that finding, finding Lukaku with crosses and finding Kevin De Bruyne in the final third in the inside right pocket was going to be enough. And it just wasn't like, they were just too good for that throughout Iran. Um, another clean sheet for them at world cups. And again, like after the Ngoi red, which was a red, they maybe could have nicked it. I will say though, the referee was, he should have given more cards, more yellow cards to Iran. Yeah.

22:16Musa Okwonga: Well, there was that one on Trossard. the one in Trusser that tore his sock and like raked him really high yeah I think that was a red and I think also it was the culmination of some bad challenges that the ref let go

22:24Ryan Hunn: there was a few though there have been a few where referees have let stuff go which I think are fouls but they're not there was one in the the one in De Bruyne

22:35Musa Okwonga: when he's going across the sort of the final the middle third in the first half there was one in the

22:40Ryan Hunn: New Zealand Egypt game as well which I think might have either led to a goal or a chance but there was a foul on a New Zealand player and it was like hang on a minute why is that not

22:47Musa Okwonga: yeah yeah yeah I think they're trying maybe there's a general directive of like letting the game flow and I get it but like let it flow man but sometimes it's just

22:55Ryan Hunn: it's being reffed in like you know Lebowski rules it's like dude man just dude just dude just let it flow man

23:05Musa Okwonga: Matthew McConaughey Matthew McConaughey style

23:09Ryan Hunn: how are we worried about Belgium or is this just one of those things that you know not worried

23:16Musa Okwonga: get out of the group great but not not worried i mean if um no not worried they still have enough to get the job done actually um winning the final game against new zealand eminently possible but all the same new zealand were really really good the first part of that game against egypt and if belgium turn up like they did in the first half against iran they could be in for a slightly nasty surprise. They just have to give, they've got to channel more of the energy that they had to start the second half where De Bruyne was moving all across the front line. Lukaku was playing with back to goal, making it a bit more difficult, being a bit less static, more dynamic with the movement.

23:57Musa Okwonga: Yeah, that's it. If they just move around a bit more up front, they'll be fine. But that's it really, I'm saying.

24:02Ryan Hunn: All right, let's just shout out some of Saturday's games that we didn't cover because there were some really good ones on Saturday. First of all, I want to shout out Japan. Japan are really good probably one of my favourites that I've watched in the tournament so far across the two games some of the football they've played has been brilliant I know that Tunisia have been poor they lost 5-1 in the opening game to Sweden but I thought some of the football Japan played was absolutely amazing and considering they're without Endo and Matoma as well two extremely, extremely important players to them they've been amazing

24:38Musa Okwonga: Super fun, yeah Yeah, Tunisia just couldn't live with them. Tunisia, we know, are limited in attack, but have the capacity to be a bit more resilient in defense than they've been so far. I'm a bit disappointed with them defensively because having seen them at AFCON, they were tough to break down in that tournament. But yeah, like Japan gave them that work. They gave them that work. Kamada and Ito behind Ureda, just untouchable, unmarkable. And some of the combination play, they're going to break down far better teams than Tunisia in this tournament actually and they're looking like I don't know you can't say they're a dark horse because they're like they're just a really really good team but they could turn someone over they could really turn someone over in the later stages I'm quite hyped to see it also Tomiyasu Arsenal legend Bologna and Arsenal legend

25:30Ryan Hunn: I'm just so happy to see him happy incredible footballer just the injury stuff I know so they're on four points now in this group and they face Sweden in the final game so a draw will do it for Japan Tunisia face the Netherlands in their final game the Netherlands absolutely demolishing Sweden Sweden became the first side in World Cup history to win their first game 5-1 and then lose their second game 5-1 wild not a stat you'd love to have no no no super chaotic yeah they got absolutely torched

26:01Musa Okwonga: Gattuso's law the Netherlands just came out with like They were so good. Yeah, they were firestorm. They were absolutely firestorm.

26:10Ryan Hunn: Kind of felt like they needed this performance as well, actually.

26:13Musa Okwonga: Yeah, it was a bit of a coming out party. The Netherlands, I think, traditionally have been slightly guilty of burning hot at the start of tournaments. Definitely. Remember the Euros 08? Do you remember that? I was like, hey, calm down, guys. Straight into 50 gear in the opening games. But yeah, this was a really important performance. Robbie was brilliant. Showing, I was really happy for him because he showed so much guile. I think he gets a lot of the coverage around probably pace and power, but there's a technician there as well who can really lead a line well. And yeah, stepping up just as the Netherlands needed him to.

26:48Musa Okwonga: That's just one of the most fun groups, that one, actually. Netherlands, Sweden, Japan, Tunisia. I'm loving it.

26:55Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it's a really good group. One of the vibiest.

26:59Musa Okwonga: Expected vibes, yeah.

27:02Ryan Hunn: Let's talk about Germany and Group E. Germany beating Ivory Coast 2-1 they came from a goal down Frank Cassier yes scoring in a World Cup Serie A legend they made hard work of this they did make hard work of this but do you know what would be really encouraging from an Argersmann point of view all of his substitutions had a massive impact on the game so knowing that he could go to that bench at certain points of the game especially if he's chasing the game I think that's that's really encouraging two from Undav and the first was assisted by Elie Mimiri so two substitutes combining for the first and then a stoppage time winner for Rundar what are we feeling about Germany?

27:45Musa Okwonga: Maybe it's got 2014 vibes problem solving I was thinking do you know what I was thinking this maybe it does because the quality is there

27:53Ryan Hunn: yeah yeah yeah carry on sorry just big win in the first game struggle in the second the difference this time is they got it over the line I said this to Seb the other night actually I said this feels like a game that in previous tournaments they draw.

28:06Musa Okwonga: Yeah, I see that. And I think, I've got to say, Felix Mecha has got a higher level than I thought he would have. And I'm not saying that as a judgment, as a criticism. It's more that a lot is being asked of him. A lot is being asked of him in that too, alongside Pavlovich. And he is absolutely carrying it really, really well, really, really strongly. Ivory Coast gave him that work. They're a very good side. Some might argue could have held out for a draw, maybe. I think holding out for a win is asking a lot against a German team with these resources. They should be disappointed they didn't get a point here.

28:43Musa Okwonga: They should rightly be disappointed. But Germany had that guile and they solved problems. And I think Nagelsmann being the contrary mind that he is, there's a part of him that might prefer this performance to the Curacao one, because I think it showed him more about his team's ceiling and ability to solve problems.

29:01Ryan Hunn: Yeah, totally. I mean, Ivory Coast looked very good as well. And Yandy Amandi got in behind Kimmich quite a few times.

29:07Musa Okwonga: Can I say this about the Ivory Coast front three? Ahmad is the veteran at 23 years old. Wild. He's the veteran. And they've got Bonnie there and you've got Diamandi there. That front three is not going anywhere anytime soon. This is the beginning of a really exciting generation of football for Ivory Coast. So as disappointing as the loss was, there's so much more to come from this team. It really is. Who we think might win the tournament.

29:31Ryan Hunn: are Germany in with a shout or is it just because I think that I think the one thing that concerns me is probably probably defensively I'm not sure they can entirely shut out like an elite attacking unit I mean they've conceded in both games you know what happens if they go up against a France or a Spain or an Argentina who just lock up shut up who just lock up

29:58Musa Okwonga: yeah Argentina taking an elite lead and just like keeping you out um i think i think this team is going to get better as the tournament goes on actually i don't think this is going to be the and again look i draw the 2014 parallel because frankly look look how algeria scared the life out of them that are winning the whole thing um this german team has the ability to play expansive football i also think has the ability to shut up shop. And they're ironing out the problems. Again, Curacao are a better team than that result suggested. We saw that from the second game. I could all come to that in a bit.

30:35Musa Okwonga: And Ivory Coast, they're very strong side with, you could argue, I mean, look, that front line. Barney's at Inter, and he's not there because of charity. He's there because he's one of the best young attackers in the world in his category. Ahmad's been doing this for seemingly years now. And Diamandir's getting offers from everywhere. Like this is, if a front line's going to break you down, it's going to be that one. So yeah, I think this is more, this result is more reflection on the quality of the quality of Ivory Coast rather than anything that Germany doing in terms of frailty. And that's a really strong back line, actually.

31:09Musa Okwonga: And if that team takes the lead, also, here's the thing, if Germany can take the lead early in games, in big games, Tarr and Schlotterbeck, they can defend space pretty well and they will keep, their quality of their passing is such, they'll just keep generating chances against the team that's down. So, Yeah, Germany are absolutely a contender for the whole thing. Absolutely.

31:29Ryan Hunn: I've just got the feeling that they might all of a sudden, before anyone realises it, they're in the semi-finals. This is it. Everyone's like, hang on a minute, how? I can see it. How? Every time I've watched a Germany game, apart from the Curacao game, it's looked nervous. And even in the Curacao game, there was a minute, there was a period where it was nervous. And I nearly said nervous. Nervous. And yeah, all of a sudden they're in the quarter-finals, semi-finals. but to be honest I feel like that happened in 2014 it did it felt like all of a sudden they were in you know the semi-final and then they beat Brazil and it's

32:05Musa Okwonga: the bench is low-key quite deep as well in terms of attacking quality like Volta Marder's there in the mix obviously Undav coming on and doing his thing and this the danger of Undav getting his eye in after a brilliant Bundesliga season is that now he's feeling it so knowing you've got that tool off the bench that weapon off the bench like it's I think Germany are very well placed actually very well placed I agree

32:31Ryan Hunn: and we've got some games today we'll get another look at Argentina which I'm really excited about seeing them play Austria I think that's going to be a good game I'm hyped for it France-Iraq later on we also get Norway-Senegal Norway-Senegal might actually be the pick of those games in terms of vibes and Jordan-Algeria is the very, very late night slash early morning game. And then England-Ghana tomorrow. We're actually going to have, should be all good. I think we're going to have a guest on Wednesday to talk about England-Ghana and some other stuff. Before we move on from Germany and that stuff, we need to talk about Ecuador and Curacao.

33:12Musa Okwonga: Yes. Just a point for Curacao, first ever World Cup point. Absolutely amazing. To bounce back from that heavy defeat to Germany. with a performance like this because it was an early onslaught from Ecuador, which makes the point look all the better, actually. It makes it look all the better. Roaming goal for Curacao performing heroics. Great early save from Endo Valencia that set the tone. And you said this actually on the stream, actually, or was it in the podcast with Tifa about the quality of goalkeeping at this tournament.

33:44Ryan Hunn: It feels like they've stalled the show. Keepers that a lot of people maybe didn't know a huge amount about have stolen the show so far. I wonder, you know, I think maybe what happened was they saw what happened with Rosinha in the Cape Verde. They wanted a taste. The Cabo Verde opener and how, hang on a minute, man, like his social media growth is...

34:07Musa Okwonga: What's that mean? Jesus, I see you've done for others.

34:10Ryan Hunn: And then everyone was like, I kind of fancy growing my Instagram. Do all I need to do is just make some saves of growing my Instagram? I mean, I can do that. I was going to say hold my gloves, but actually give me my clothes because I'd be to make the same

34:23Musa Okwonga: moments against Uruguay which I think you know I think it is as well that's the second album man but you know it is as well it's the second album it's the relentless pressure like I know and all of a sudden eyes are on you you're not you know and also the relentlessness because it's also it's not just the eyes on you it's the fact that Uruguay are like we don't want this to happen to us we don't want because they saw how you know the Spanish press absolutely you know cooked the national team and then like they were like oh my god it's going to be really bad for us too so they're coming with double intensity but yeah Rome was great against Ecuador and a point for Curaçao look whatever they do in this tournament I thought you know against Germany for the bulk of that game they were brilliant so this is two great performances and the fans are just loving the fans having the time of their absolute lives

35:09Ryan Hunn: what you saw in this Ecuador Curaçao game is almost like an alternate reality of what the Germany Curaçao game could have been yes take the lead early great shot and that's that's just basically you know I mean if you look at the statistics and you chucked 5-0 on as a scoreline on the Ecuador game you'd be like yeah that makes sense looking at it I think people just thought they

35:30Musa Okwonga: were gonna get a hammered in each match and it's not been that way at all amazing amazing well I

35:35Ryan Hunn: mean they got hammered by Germany but they they also oh I think people thought there'd be a

35:39Musa Okwonga: pop on the nose I think again if you look at the 7-1 it's not sounds weird we're doing a real feel

35:45Ryan Hunn: It was a real feel for one.

35:46Musa Okwonga: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I thought Ecuador, you know, them now having lost the first game and drawn the second, they've been better value than that, actually. They've been better value. They've scored a goal, though. Yeah, but they've been, again, they haven't. And also, this is the frustration for them because they're like, we've played some really, really good stuff. We just can't get the breakthrough. Yeah.

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36:42Ryan Hunn: Let's go big picture. so we're about what nine ten days this is day 10 of the world cup now or day 11 seeing teams that maybe we're not used to seeing in world cups has been a real plus to the tournament and i think also especially with what you were saying earlier about those teams being as impressive as they have been they've given the tournament a freshness especially with um you know like a footballing ecosystem that for a lot of people have become a lot of people have become quite jaded by i'm not rushing to give certain individuals credit for that because I think that it's actually not that a that wasn't the true reason why this this thing happened in the first place and also it's actually kind of nothing to do with them you know I think that we've seen numerous times before that with all of the grimness that happens in the grim stuff that happens in football and a lot of the stuff that surrounds it and no matter how challenging and trying that can be like football always finds away.

37:38Musa Okwonga: Yeah, it's people taking advantage of the opportunity, exactly, yeah.

37:41Ryan Hunn: Yeah, when you get players on the pitch, the moments that that naturally creates and organically creates, it's always, it always does this, every tournament does this. And I think it's been really, really great to see that there have been some great games, there have been some great stories already.

38:00Musa Okwonga: Those things have happened, I think, in spite of, I think those things have happened in spite of, yeah, exactly, in spite of, individuals and institutions that we won't name because they don't deserve to be named in association with the successes. So the way that the fans have conducted themselves under real pressure, logistical pressure, the fact that they haven't allowed, you know, so far at least, the oppressive conditions in which they've been brought together to affect their chemistry with each other, their connection with each other. It's been amazing. Shout outs, just crowd noise at some of the games in particular.

38:35Musa Okwonga: Shout out to Mexico. Everything Mexico generated in terms of noise. I'm sure there's been like noise warnings going off in the cities because of that. Obviously, Cabo Verde, Curaçao and Haiti as well. Like strong showings Haiti. I think Thurie group after Harta against Brazil. Extremely impressive and running Scotland close. Absolutely giving their best in both games. Standout players, breakout players. I mentioned actually over at Tifo. Ayari doing big things for Sweden. And just, I got to say, World Cups are always sweeter when not only the underdogs kick out, but like when all the kind of more favoured teams really turn up.

39:16Musa Okwonga: And they've all turned up. Like if you look at all the sort of, the big size, the size that are favoured to go deep in this tournament, if you look how many of their key players have already scored or assisted, that I think is impressive because generally in World Cups, it's quite rare. I cannot remember a World Cup actually, Ryan, where all the big, sort of the most favoured teams and all the protagonists showed up as quickly as this. I mean, if you look, for example, at, let's say, World Cup 90, right? Or like 94. Baggio didn't really heat up until like the third group game. Didn't really heat up.

39:55Musa Okwonga: And then like he just went hot for the rest. Zidane 2006. like whereas this is more like world cup you know like world cup 86 where maradona was just lights out throughout like messy started this world cup like maradona started in 86 which is a wild thing to think of 38 but it's not just messy like everyone's brought it and i think that is what has got me quite hyped more than i expected to be because everyone's ready man it's like one of those bands which like starts it has their big single as the first song on the album there's no like you know two minutes spoken word intro it's just like yeah you're

40:29Ryan Hunn: gonna get this work yeah i think one of the great things as well has just been some of the fan stuff yeah yeah yeah you know there's been loads of stuff about like mexico fans and south korea fans which uh has been kind of one of the highlights yeah totally there was also i saw something yesterday that someone posted from i think a fan park where uh i think it was mexico fans they were built they built um you know like full of empty plastic cups they build like a tower and then turned it essentially into like a goal that was held up at a certain height and what they were doing

41:03Musa Okwonga: they were doing they were bouncing people over it it was absolutely incredible so good i just

41:13Ryan Hunn: like the creativity of people yeah yeah it's just never never like because i that's actually really funny when you when you see people kind of stack beer cuts and see and you get the it usually happens i think i feel like it usually happens at cricket and it just goes on forever and it's almost you know they're trying to make a pipeline down to like oh sorry this is quite around this

41:36Musa Okwonga: is quite a random aside i probably i probably shouldn't name the sports team but i was having breakfast this morning my hotel just obviously i'm in the uk for a couple of these um these streams and like national sports team was in the lobby they're playing like they're playing like international tournament like oh my god i said can i just say something you guys looked you're like actual like proper athletes not just like jobbing athletes but like actual professional like oh yeah no we're a national team for so and so i was like oh my god wow then i was like a bit starstruck they were really lovely as well oh wow at some point they probably like get this man out of here

42:08it was really funny that moment you're like these are actual there's always a moment when you're

42:12Musa Okwonga: like um you know walking in public and you're like you know athletes just move differently right Like the physique, the aura, the style. This happened actually in Romania a few months ago when I was going through the airport and I was like, they've got the physiques of athletes, but I'm not sure what they are. Actually, I think they're cyclists. And then we went and got a taxi into the middle of town and then we go past this like huge lorry and it was like some like national, it was like one of the world's top cycling teams, like Chris Froome had won like, I think he won like the Tour de France four times.

42:42Musa Okwonga: Wow. You can just, athletes just have this like thing around them, like they have this like or it's not just they're big whatever just like oh these are actual

42:50Ryan Hunn: yeah i mean it's like it's rare i feel like it's rare that you see people who are that conditioned and also just have that little body fat in well you mentioned the

43:00Musa Okwonga: teary on rethink didn't you like seeing him just yeah just like seeing in person when i was a

43:04Ryan Hunn: teenager or something like that it's just one of the just two people who shouldn't have been stood that close to each other do you know what I mean just just it's just it wasn't good not good yeah yeah yeah you question your life choices

43:19Musa Okwonga: yeah

43:19Ryan Hunn: well yeah but but like you see it now like I always talk about one of the most amazing things is just when you like go into games for example and if you're in mix zones you see players walk past like I remember even like Bayern Dortmund a couple years oh Dortmund Bayern a couple years ago just seeing Harry Kane walk past and be like like he's absolutely hench like I'm just like what the and that's why it's quite cool when you see when you see like footballers who who maybe don't come across as being super small on TV but then you actually walk past them and you're like oh well I you know okay

43:53Musa Okwonga: but the one the one that's gonna make me laugh if I ever sort of encounter him in public it's gonna be James Milner because that man is actually a cube he's a cube because he looks the same from all sides he looks the same it's just so big is that one of those dudes that like you like it just has that energy of like yeah that guy's not that's never skipped leg day he's one of those dudes if you bumped into him and you knew he was an athlete you couldn't tell which sport he played because there was a thing yeah that was a funny thing that happened with professional sport a while ago where there was a lot of crossover in training techniques right there was a point where maybe like in the 80s when sport wasn't as professionalized where you could tell who played rugby league you could tell play rugby union you could tell who played football and then at a certain point a lot of those coaches and fitness coaches started like working with each other across and learning from each other cross-fertilizing and now james milner is basically like the optimal could be rugby league could be rugby union could be a fullback in any sport actually like could be a cricketer you're like you know like that kind of build now where like you have to have this like elite physical strength.

45:05Musa Okwonga: Now we're in the age where Formula One drivers are like vegan doing like incredible routines. Like it's all of that. So yeah. I wonder what Milner's going to do next actually. It's going to be coaching, isn't it? Anyway, yeah. Yeah, maybe. James, if you ever want to come on Stadio, you're welcome. I'd love to talk to James Milner.

45:23Ryan Hunn: Just like, what a career.

45:25Musa Okwonga: And the cube thing was a compliment.

45:26Ryan Hunn: Let me just be clear. It was a compliment. James Milner's like a cube. Brackets. Complimentary. Complimentary. if you have to see it.

45:41Musa Okwonga: Anyway, where were we? Where were we?

45:44Ryan Hunn: No idea. I mean, we can roll if you want because the game's coming thick and fast. Yes. And we have more to watch today. We do, we do. So we may as well just wrap it up.

45:57Musa Okwonga: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to Argentina, Austria. I can't explain why. I think it's because it's such like a solid test. because Austria, like we know how good they are major tournaments in recent years and Argentina, we know what their floor is now, but I wonder what their ceiling is. That's the next question, I think.

46:16Ryan Hunn: Do you think Connie Lima's assignment is basically just to follow Messi around?

46:24Ryan Hunn: I've just got a feeling that Connie Lima's like, I've got to follow this guy around.

46:29Musa Okwonga: So Connie, any thoughts?

46:31Ryan Hunn: You know, it's like... So, Connie, you need to follow Messi around and nullify that threat. But also, we actually kind of need you to be one of our most important ball progressors. And ideally, if you can pop up at the final, Connie's just like, what else do you want me to do? Do you need your washing up doing?

46:46Musa Okwonga: Yeah, yeah, Ture did an interview quite recently where he talks about playing in the 2009 Champions League final as a centre-back. And having to track Cristiano Ronaldo from centre-back. And I think big players are missing, so it's like, oh, who can play there? and Keita was like crickets Busquets was like no way everyone's like looking away and Yaya Arturi's like I'll do it and then it's like oh Yaya okay you just one of the great attack midfielders of our generation well or just all round centre mids having to do that level of dirty work because I think Connie Lima he gets the Yaya Arturi award for general dog's body oh man is that the designated driver absolutely it's there's always it makes me laugh because there's always one player in each team that has to do stuff they'd really rather not like even even brazil 1970 there was a lot of talk because that team had like four number tens and you had like jess on who had to like sacrifice everything just like and he was incredible by the way but still like it was not a glory role yeah shout out to connie limer shout out to connie limer good luck very much looking forward to that you got any predictions on England absolutely none just no idea no idea what's going to happen there but Tuchel's got them he's got them moving let's see

48:07Ryan Hunn: see Declan Rice just slyly let it slip well I'm not sure if he let it slip because I think it was deliberate but he he was like yeah had a because he came off in the in the game against Croatia he said yeah I had like a bit of neural pain something I've kind of been managing all season at Arsenal. I'm like, he's been doing that with pain? It's ridiculous.

48:33Musa Okwonga: Well, it's like when Didier Drogba came out the other day and was like, yeah, I was always hurt. I was hurt for years. And actually, you know, it makes sense. Like the types of challenges that Drogba was getting was on the end of for years as a striker. It makes a lot of sense. That game was, he was not playing a risk-averse game of football. and Declan Rice I mean sprinting in the 90th minute having been running for the previous 89 like non-stop really I mean these footballers are it's high rocks modern football is basically like high rocks midfielders and Declan Rice is the prototype of that and to do it while injured god wild yeah

49:13Ryan Hunn: alright man let's roll let's roll we hope everyone's staying safe and well wherever you are and don't forget if you're listening on the free feed and you want to come and join us for every single show through the World Cup ad-free in full you can go to patreon.com forward slash stadio and you can sign up as a stadio podcast member or a stadio social club member where you get all the podcasts and access to the stadio social club discord and loads of other perks as well we're going to be back on Wednesday and until then don't forget to check the stadio actual playlist on Spotify and speaking of which playing out on Overboard by Dub Syndicate anything you would like to add Musa or Wonga?

49:48Ryan Hunn: Nothing further Alright everyone much love enjoy your week and we will be back with you on Wednesday see you then

50:22Thank you.

50:55Thank you.

51:26Thank you.

52:00We'll be right back.

52:20Ryan Hunn: As the office manager, it's my job to make sure my team stays on top of their game. I can get the basics like cleaning supplies and paper towels. But what they really care about, snacks. And she can get everything they need when they need it. Greg loves wheat crackers, Brenda Crave sour candy, and Max, oh boy. He needs protein bars and milk and applesauce and turkey. Built for your business. Who knew?