Australia 4–1 England: Brook Controversy, Brilliant Bethell & Mark Waugh Joins | Stick to Cricket EP 29

0:00Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. You're the boss. Yeah, it could be now. Are you mic'd up yet, Junior? Yeah. You're on the mic. Yeah, I'm on the mic. I've got some lollies. I've got some sweets down here. New boss of English cricket. How much do you want? What's your can of day rate? Day rate. How much do you want? I said, right, you're in charge of English cricket. What would you say? Two million Aussie? Would you do it for two mil? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Sounds all right. Sounds all right. Well, play golf and drink.

0:43You all right eating all the sweets? Yeah. As many sweets as you like. So two million Aussie dollars and you're there? No. Thank you. All done. No, thank you. I couldn't go for England. No. Or never? No. Four million. You played at Essex, you've got a little bit of affiliation. Four million. Four million. Four million. Would you? Four million dollars? For six months. For six months. I'm so short now oh dear oh this looks what forgot this for oh I don't know but we've got a white formations for my I'll tell you what we're gonna do throughout this this this show when this boy when the chef arrives a cookie yeah where is he he's on his way before I've never met cookie before I've been just a ladling yeah yeah no I'm yeah I six boys he's a good life I couldn't watch about that

1:33Save it. Save it. Oh, that's it. Are we on already? Oh, we're on already, aren't we? He had a good roll. He had a flick off the hip, didn't you? Oh, mate. He had a flick off the hip. I could not watch him back. Sorry. Bumble said if he was playing cricket outside my house, I'd draw the curtains. Yeah, yeah, yeah. First time I met him. I'm going to say the same. Sorry, Cookie, you're a f***ing top player. We're going to have to do... What's it called when you do the business board? You know you have to what a model business what what's it called when you have to Yeah, the other is come on sir. I'm a man.

2:08I'm a man. Yeah, yeah, Mike Mike Mike Mike I don't please welcome Please stand up stand up everyone for the deal. I'm going on. Have you even coach?

2:25Thank you

2:32Oh, don't you? Have you two never met? You've not met me either? No, we haven't. I thought you were Essex boys. You're Essex different. Slightly different era. Cookies a bit younger than me, isn't he? Yeah. Can we have a cappuccino? Yeah, cappuccino. One of those special cappuccinos. I need a beer. How did it go down on the pitch? It's hot, wasn't it? Hot. Even I got a bead on. Didn't you think it was your first ever sweat in Australia? Did it? It was alright. I thought actually they spoke... both of them spoke well did they I thought Stokesy spoke really well yes Baz looked a little bit for the first time I thought it was a little bit shell-shocked actually yeah so in the end when he spoke normally he's full of energy bus plays and we're still doing by the way we don't start and finish it's not like you know it's a bit like an ashes tour there's no stuff we don't we're We're English, we don't do any prep.

3:24We won't swear on that. We don't prep, do we? Rubbish. We didn't go to the whacker for a net. He spoke well, did he? I thought Ben spoke really well. He said, for me, he was like, for 18 months, people didn't know how to play against us. And then the last 18 months, people have worked out how to play us, and we haven't worked out how to combat that. So we're going to change. Well, I think so. And he said, the other thing, he was like, I'm happy to have some really tough conversations and I think it's important that we have those tough conversations about our performances here I asked him were they underperformed and he goes yeah we've underperformed Three out of ten he said Yeah like three out of ten in certain areas which I think to be winning Australia we all know you can't do that We said a lot of things off the field have actually worked in England's favour haven't they in terms of the luck they've had Off the field?

4:14No I'm talking about Aussies like the Aussies the team that they've played against all those five games Oh, yeah, we had our two best bowlers. Our best batsmen didn't play a test, Smithy, and Lyon only played one. You just get the feeling that you wouldn't mind playing a game of poker against this England side, would you? You know, you kind of know what they could... You can out-manoeuvre them a little bit now, can't you? And he said that. He said it. Yeah, and it was all about, you know, these points and these crucial moments in games that we haven't, you know, stood up to the pressure moments.

4:47Well, it's not necessarily the case of England standing up to those pressure moments. It's just now the Oppo now know how to diffuse those pressure moments. Well, it carry up at the stumps as well. That stops and run in at ball and knees. First, yeah. Stick it outside of stump when everyone's having a hack. I don't get the first two tests. Like, if you've got any half a brain as a batsman or a batting group, you're playing at the Optus and Gabbo, how's Australia going to get you out? they're gonna get you out with a short ball and driving on the up so how do you how would you not know that yeah right and but then despite all the stuff I just keep doing it yeah the start all the stuff about preparation all the things you literally get down here our into date sorry lunch on day two he goes down to it like today to at first they're a hundred ahead these guys about like they batted in the Adelaide or here and they win that you win win that test And you guys were ready to pile into Australia.

5:44Everything was, like, ready to go. Yeah, absolutely. I was getting a question on these golf. Or golf, golf. Even the golf question came out. For Australia. And yet we couldn't win that hour. And then when you get behind in Australia, it is so hard. Three for nought, we lost. So hard to come back in. Three for nought with 100 lead. Have you enjoyed Australia? I always enjoy Australia. So before we start getting deep into the cricket, what's been your best part of Australia? What have you enjoyed the most? I enjoyed me ten days down in Coogee. Did you? Coogee, can you say properly? Oh, sorry, what is it?

6:16Coogee. Oh, Coogee. No, it's Coogee. Is it Coogee? Coogee. Coogee. Coogee. So enjoy that. Oh, enjoy them all, mate. Enjoy all the towns and all the cities. Food. I don't think I've had a bad meal in Australia. I don't think I've had a bad glass of wine in Australia. I'm not sure about the beers. Cappuccino. Some of the bees are... Oh, the cappuccinos. That's good. so have you been on the white or the red or bugs oh everything like yeah yeah daily yeah what are you sure as a blank save blanc yeah he's got his own wines yeah i've got my own stuff i said you saw them nice they're all right they've got a good charades yeah yeah not too grippy not too grippy not too grippy not not not like a smooth not like a big big ballsy barossa all right that you've enjoyed your kids you've enjoyed your wife you've enjoyed it Dave oysters fish vinegar vinegar yeah I don't do that Kilpatrick don't do any of them cooked just get them down you get oysters in England you know yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah what Whitstable Whitstable Oyster Festival down in Kent that's brilliant do you like the big ones I don't like a really really big one a bit chunky just one medium creamy ones yeah yeah this is a medium anyone's that you doing this week and that's your pot's little medium that's bad you're in there Coogee yeah four bucks each that's why they're cheap Yeah, nice about seven bucks.

7:53I know seven seven. They are they be would they be most overpriced food item anywhere in the world? And lobster. Yeah, seven dollars for that. Mr. Kissy miss You know that one? No. Derek and Clive. All right. Lobster is he was bumble kissing us. She was suffering from Chef what have you loved about Australia? You've been and gone and come back. You know I've loved what cricket gives you and like the kids have come out I've literally had the best day living their best life Literally came in Melbourne and they've just loved Australia I've had my scouts around Sydney and you've been spotted in the Coogee Pavilion on a number of occasions sir Alistair I have yeah most time with my family yeah It's it's good to see you out and about yeah, and I I just think that they've been certainly after days test matches They had a surf lesson I caught that Bondi the other day and they're living their best life and that's because cricket allowed us to come and watch it very very lovely.

8:53Look, Laurie, look, Laurie. He'd be sweating out the big fun. He's coming with a few stats he'll give us a few stats. How did the hot air balloon go? Unbelievable. Where did you go? We went over Melbourne. I saw that in the mornings when I went for a walk. Every morning I was like this family just very kindly offered it to stuart broad he said he didn't like heights so how'd you steer it well i didn't

9:24so totally windy you could end up anywhere in tasmania yeah you can't take off if it's windy it's very uh technical You're blowing hot air. Yeah. Hot air. I like things with steel. You're a good flyer, aren't you? No, no. Have you ever done it? No. No chance. I'm off in a couple of hours and I'm going back into four foot of snow. Do you get nervous, Phil, as you get on the Big Bird? I do, yeah, I do. Why? How do you tackle it? A couple of bloody Marys. Yeah. Yeah, a pink one and a blue one. It's only the start. You get the tablets in there. It's only the start and the end of the worries. first time I flew Australia first time I flew Australia Laurie Brown the physio yeah physio like I said I'm really scared I'm really scared really really scared about this he said have one of these whatever you do that's actually I thought I was the baby Jesus for 24 hours really yeah she came along I thought you know I thought he was sort of like the donkey or something I've got three donkeys.

10:28What have you liked, mate? Oh, I enjoy. I like my walks. Yes, you do. Coogee to Bondi, that walk. It's the best walk in the world. Yeah, it is. Past the graveyard. How far is that, then? It's about nine kilometres. It's too far. Isn't that the reason why Australia is so good at cricket? That's right. Do you know what? I think he... Sir John Lewis, the England women's coach, he came out with that statement, didn't he? So the reason why Australia are better at cricket than the England team is because of that walk from Cuddy to Bond. He's basically saying the outdoor life and the fitness levels. I think he's got a bit of a point, hasn't he?

11:01I don't reckon our team is... John Lewis, England Wings coach. Travis Head, Nathan Lyon. Future chubby checkers. Junior, what do you like about living in Australia? I know you were going to get as England coach for$4 million, but what do you like about it? the food, the weather, the sporting environment. I live on a farm, so I like that. What do you call it? I don't like people too much and I don't like crowds. Yeah, I'm just here, I'm just here. That's a disease isn't it, what's it called? Asperger's? Asperger's? Odd. Odd. Odd is called, odd. Nasser Usain's odd, I saw him just before and he didn't even say hello to him, I'm sitting this far away from him.

11:44Did he bring it? I'm an Essex teammate. He's a fireman. I was going to say, you're a farmer. Yeah, I've got racehorses. Oh, yeah. Yeah, not farming. I'm not too many talking about your animals. I mean, they... I've got donkeys, chooks, snakes, racehorses. You've got a donkey, haven't you? Yeah, three donkeys. Should look after the horses. Three dogs. The donkeys look after the horses, don't they? Supposed to, but they scare them. Yeah, some of the horses look at them, what the hell is that? That's Laurie. But, yeah, no. How many... You can't get in, Laurie. Who's there, Lozza? Big fella's there.

12:11Lozza, get you. See you in the corner. Do you have a peacock?

12:17Right, Loz is there, should we start the show? Come on, let's start the show. Hey, Loz, let's start the show. No, no, that was just... That was a warm-up.

12:28Before we get started, I want to say a big thank you to our sponsors, Betfair. Remember to like and subscribe and enjoy the show.

12:39You've just got to reset, reassess, re-evaluate, just suck it up. If you can't dominate county cricket, Don't think you're gonna dominate under this this pressure here I want their batters to start being problem-solvers again one thing that looks ultra professional and one that doesn't whether they like that or not That's what I see. I think Stokes as captaincy. You gotta say it was pretty ordinary I think throughout the whole series wasn't it did you see what you've been butting? Yeah, you put me to sleep But is that a bit like saying to Pep Guardiola we want you to play the long ball game now Get it down the middle, get it in the mixer.

13:16You played against him, didn't you? He got you out three times. Oh, no. Seven times? Seven. If I was coach and so on and you'd have to deal with that, I think you'd have to have a suspension. I'm not going out till 2 o 'clock in the morning getting pissed on the tour game. We can't afford to do that. You assisted to Baz, it would be like sort of the prodigy and Mozart. What could come out of the middle of that? Give him a bit of a breeze. Would I get excited at some stage? Why wouldn't you get excited at some stage? Don't you? Bolland or Bolland? Oh, I've been calling him Bolland. Bolland?

13:54Bolland. All right, let's go. All right, let's go. All right, boys. You've got a sweats on. You've got a sweats on. I've got a baza. Come on. I've got a joke, guys. Yeah, jeez. Where's me dance? I feel like a rally. There's a few overs on the hill there, isn't it? yeah a bit of powder for love as well so I'm ready to go oh well not fit as I used to be dude thanks god he's got me that way I'm having a colour with you you're coming in mate come on are you alright now mate I'm doing get any stats out just to help us out let me just say one thing about Jesus Christ these blokes are rushing me relax I'm alright left arm left arm Seema this is England cricket all over it

14:45I

14:51And his altzman works for TMS BBC I think he'd be a great addition great with his numbers funny

15:07You all right? At least you're very considerate, Bumble. Right, let's start the show. You're coming in, Dave. I'm coming in. Right, go on, you had one thing to say. I did, I did, I did, and I've forgotten it. No, I haven't, no, I haven't. One thing you can't do in Australia is fluke a game of cricket. Right. You have to earn it. And I think that this England team came over and thought to themselves, right, OK, listen, we're pretty talented, we're pretty good. In England, you can sort of fluke a game sometimes, can't you? Well, the MCG, you could argue, was... Well, there you go. So that was a bit of a fluke, wasn't it?

15:39It was a toss of the coin on which way it came down. Over here, you know, 30s and 40s don't win nothing, you know. Bowling short and wide outside of Stum, you're going to get a couple caught and everything, but you're going to go for 150. So that's one thing I've always known over here, is that you've got to earn it, you've got to grind it, and you've got to play properly. Otherwise, you're going to be found out. Well, I mean England know that now, don't they? It's just a bit late to know. Because they've changed how they played at the start of the series. Actually, we watched Bessel play one of the best knocks, I think, you can see.

16:11I don't know how you can play better than that. You had Joe Root on the other end. We saw how hard it was to play. Root, we all know how good he is, was really struggling to get going. And Jacob made it look easy. But I reckon he would not have played that way at the start of the series, if he had been picked. Or in the summer against India. He played that test against Zim. Probably got runs against Zim. then the basball method would have been probably thrown into him. Come on, you've got to run towards the danger. By coming in so late when the series has gone and people are starting to realise that it's not been successful, he's gone.

16:45I tell you what, I don't think I've seen a better technique than that. No. Technically. Footwork, Mike. Yeah, exactly. But in English cricket for years and years now, if you mention technique, you were shot down. Gower was enthusing about it. Oh, well, he batted a bit like Gower. He did. I think he batted a little bit better than Gower. Well, no, wait, because David got a little bit out there, didn't he? Yeah, he did. He did, and I don't think Jacob did. He actually did in Melbourne when I first saw him. He hit a lot down there, the third mound. I thought, gee, he's not going to make any runs playing like that.

17:17But in this test match, he played really straight. Back and forward, good technique. And the technique of all the English batsmen in the first three tests, look, there's no footwork. Well, you said at the start of the series, and in Perth you were sweating, because he's whispered to me and said, Olly Pote won't get a 50 with that technique. And he got a 46 in his first league's go. But you were proven to be right. What is it with Olly Pote's technique that you saw that you knew wouldn't be a success here? Well, I think just that angle of the bat and just wanting to push out of the ball all the time, playing away from your body.

17:51Olly Pote looks to me like he could get out any ball. You know, he looks so nervous and journey. But in Perth, it's the best I've said he played, actually. First innings, he played pizza. What happened to him after that? He just started, you know, doing this. Chasing again, didn't he? Chasing again. His feet are static, aren't they? His plods. His head gets over. Yeah. I've been riffing him to shreds. But I think... Nah, well... But if you can play like that for the first... You can bat five or six for an evening. If you can play like that in the first time, like, for once, then surely we're talking probably what this side has is the mental side of it.

18:23And the other thing I noticed straight away when me and Agnes were talking about it, was remember he coming in the first over again? in this England side. Number three may have opened the bloody batting. And he's got a real nice little sort of cruise, hasn't he? Nice and composed, isn't he? Give us a demo of his batting while you're here. Ollie Pope. What are you talking about? No. We jumped ship to Bethel. We're going to Bethel. This is Bethel. This is how he batted. But he just... He's sort of just, you know... Casual. Yeah. Unruffled. Unruffled. Composed. What it cruises about, you know. What about his technique for?

18:58Just as I wonder. Well, what I was very impressed with, I'm going to have to do it left hand, was those, he's got a very good stop for a start. You've always said that about good players. Good players, Sir Alistair, you had a very good stop, Mike, very good stop. But it's not a stop like a lot of the boys stop the ball in the crease and just sort of dob it. He was actually there. Yes. Moving towards the ball, head over the ball, movement, like that. And when he played those off drives, I was seeing side on them, things like that. It was there, you know. Oh, fuck. Like that. You know what I mean?

19:32What about the back foot straight punch off the back foot? Well, there you go. It was a big shot in Australia, I reckon. But right back. Yeah, big shot. Yeah, right back. Right back there. And when he wanted a cut, it was right back there, under the eyes. There. You had to reverse sweep as well. There. You see how I'm reverting? I could never bat it left after I've got a tenet on me. So, yeah, so that's what I just picked up on. And then he would just like... Yeah, where's me wallpaper? Where's me washboard? Yeah, no history on it when he got 100. And in the 90s, unbelievable. 25 minutes in the 90s and just learning.

20:07You talk to players about learning. In New Zealand, you try to do it in two hits. Oh, shit. So his basic game was based on technique and game awareness. Yeah. Playing the right shots at the right time. Absolutely. Patients missing. Well, in New Zealand, he tried to get his 100 in two hits, tried to go through 90s, two hits. Here, it's 25 minutes and he didn't look flustered. I'm sure he felt it. We know he felt it because we all feel 90s. But he just, under all this scrutiny, he was unbelievable. 300 for England, Bethel route route, 300s that were technical. Yeah, there you go. There you go. And it just shows also as well, for a young lad coming in, a bit of cricket intelligence, Mike.

20:47Yeah. You know, a bit of intelligence. You had a bit of that when you bowled. I did, I was very clever. When you bowled. Not when you batted. You played against him, didn't you? He got you out three times. Oh, no. Seven times. Seven times. Three I'm not counting. I got a lot of runs against him. Yeah, you did. I'm not counting three dismissals. Can we explain? Well, the first one, I'm not counting, was in Adelaide. Second innings. Always bowl over the wicket to me. Well, yeah, because you kept spanking me. I bowl over the wicket defensive and I play shots. And I just flick one off my hip. Nicely.

21:24And fat gats. Sure. Hits him on the foot. Yeah, bounces up. Caught, caught, caught. Caught that pad. Just check that was out. Caught that pad, that's the next one. Then the reverse sweep I played at the Gabba when we were about 400 in front in the second innings. Never played it in my life. So you did him with a bit of slight. He's got the normal defensive feel. What, bowls for your legs or...? No, I just sort of chopped it on. So, Laurie, was that out? Not that many, 30 or something. That doesn't count. What's the third one then? 99 at Lord's. Really? How were you out? Bowled between my legs.

22:02So I bowled again. Over the wicket. Bowled again. I just changed that. 99. I did guess. 99. I don't count that either. Can we do some Runners and Riders? There's a couple of good ones too. Runners and Riders. Right from this England team on this tour. Is this racing we're talking about? Well, yeah, I know you like your racing. Zach Crawley, Runners and Riders. Will he be playing against New Zealand in the summer? Definite Definite? Definite Well if he's played all this time He's going to carry on I'm not having that Alright I tell you what If he goes back to county cricket And he dominates I think this England team There hasn't been any consequence for failure He's averaged 27 again in the series He can play We've seen him play some nice strokes But not big, big innings I think all this team Well I think Duckett's a shoo-in Because of what he's done in the past Bethel's shoo-in Root's shoo-in Brooke's shoo-in Stokes obviously Smith, no Jack's no Are you asking us or telling us?

22:55No, what I'm saying is that I think a lot of these players need to be thrown back into our game. And if they do great for the counters, then they come back into the England side. But if there are... Hasiba Mead, you keep mentioning, if he goes and gets four or five hundred in April, May, surely he's going to jump ahead of Zach Krull. If Zach Krull is struggling for Kent, I think there needs to be that concept. You look at the start of the Aussie summer, where Manos Labashen had to go back and play State Creek. He got a few hundred as he got back into the side. Whether it was the best opener they felt, score runs got into the Aussie team.

23:24I think English cricket needs a moment like that. Where they send the players back in, go and dominate. If you can't dominate county cricket, don't think you're going to dominate under this pressure here. I want their batters to start being problem solvers again. So like you can't just say, oh well you don't face that in county cricket. You don't face that international cricket, the keeper up. I've just watched three test matches where the keeper's come up and not one of those players, like the Crawleys, I'm going to have to say Brook as well, have managed to find out a method of it because you got 75 mile now can't keep her up is not relevant well actually the best players will find a way to do it and I think going so I want to see all those players crawly in particular to go back and go right yeah I want to play for England why wouldn't you want to play test cricket in June but I've got to earn the right again but we're going to be played that many matches in April like freezing cold the ground on the wet find a way yeah well April in the last few years there's been a lot of runs scored because the pitches are fresh you know down the back end of the summer on the balls it's so cold they can't get the ball down there everybody's got four sweaters on but I think we all had to do it we all had to do it has any of that team there been dropped I've got a big question Mark Ducat will play Bethel will play Root will play Brooke will play Stokes going to play Jamie Smith That has to be a question.

24:45He's gone. James Smith gone. Can we just quickly go before... What about before Duckey? Just before we go on Smith. Duckey, we're all going down the order because the other ones are literally... I still want him to go and score some runs. Again. I think of all of them. Well, we're not going Bethel, Root, Brook or Stokes, are we? So we've only got the top. I'm disappointed with Crawley because after Adelaide, I thought that was a turning point in his career. Yeah. And then he came out and played some lazy shots. I like him because he's a good fieldsman. You know, he's in the game in the field. What's his numbers?

25:20Who's that? Zach Crawley's career now. About 32. 27 in the series. How many tests? 64. He's had 500 as an opening batter. I just think they need to be told. Look, you couldn't see his runs. As a top-order player. okay who've you got that's better it's going to improve the team i mean you know this is tribe but i just think they get we need that moment junior in the uk where for a few years now counter cricket has been put to one side i'm not saying character cricket is the be-and-all but i just think we need that moment in the game where everyone that's playing character cricket feels they might get into this group yeah by playing the right when's that started since brennan mccollum yeah alex lees was open he got thrown out crawling duck at the battle of success but very similar to what Ben Stokes said.

26:08You know, in the first 18 months, they were difficult to play against. The last 18 months, teams have worked out how to play against them and a few of them have been found out a little bit. So they'll have to reset. They've just got to reset, reassess, re-evaluate and just suck it up. Every now and again, you're on the ropes and you've got to pick your time when you're going to come out and throw some shots. And they've got to get the guard up. They've got to get the guard up. In the start of this series, I thought England had a better batting side than Australia. And we had a better bowling side.

26:38When I looked at the two teams at the start of the series, I thought England had a more settled batting line-up. But they just played dumb. That's why I went when Hazelwood was out. Kilmins were arse. And Lyon only played... Doggett. Good ball of it. You've got Doggett playing, you go... No disrespect, but he's steady. Does one trick proni come tomorrow? Prony? Prony.

27:08Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. So, I mean, you haven't mentioned Harry Brook. You can't just say he's a shoo-in. He's got a... No, I mean... He's a shoo-in. We have to react to this story that's broken. Oh, what's that? Well, Harry Brook is the one-day skipper in New Zealand the night before the last game in Wellington, was out late, got in a fracas with a bouncer, don't know where he slept, and the ECB say that they dealt with it. Now, number one, what do you think of that? As the England captain, the night before one day, he plays the next day, they get hammered. They were poor on that tour.

27:46The ECB have said they've dealt with it in-house, but have they? Because he played the next day. He played probably the day he was still out, if you know what I mean. I do. Is this out? Is this like... Yeah, yeah, it's broken, yeah. So, number one, is that kind of a... just a reminder of how loose this set-up has been? I don't think... There's not many players who haven't made a mistake off-field. Like, generally, let's be totally honest. And I think this tour for Brook will be the one where... like, it has to have taken something from watching probably Bethel at last innings, or Smith, or... You've got nine starts out.

28:25But what do you think as an excellent captain, when you're one-day captain... Yeah, let me just start that. ..has gone out the night before... Yeah. ..and then delivered an Ashes series. Let's be honest, he's made a lot of mistakes on the field. He's been a little bit loose. And then they have a five-day trip to Noosa, which was loose. So when you... We threw the book at him. I saw someone in Noosa that didn't look like he was... Was that bothered? Well, I don't know. What time did he get punched by the bouncer, mate? Until I... Me load. Me load. before 12 before when we played 12 o 'clock uh was our time after 12 o 'clock was all right cricket time so he had to be in bed yeah apparently he was on his own not that i was out on his own well on his own yeah yeah no mates well well it was duck duck

29:13so where do we sit with it in terms of a a group and a you know there's the they've had a culture created haven't they that's been quite loose where do we sit with it well he's representing in his country and there's a responsibility. Number one, you two have captained a side, how would you have dealt with it? If I was coach and so on and you'd have to deal with that, I think you'd have to have a suspension. You've got to lose his captain from the start. You've got to lose his captain, so you might suspend him for a game, which has sent your signal, your signal's out there and you have dealt with it.

29:46The reason probably why they kept it in half is because of the Ashes, they didn't want a big blowing story coming to Australia. they should have dealt with it then. They should have missed that game. It would have been dealt with, you come to Australia and then you get on with the tour. By hiding it and brushing it, and now it comes out, with everything that we've seen on this tour, it's like, oh, God. These things, they always come out. It might be on a back burner, but it'll come out. I just wanted, did it affect him on the tour? Well, that's what I mean. If they'd have dealt with it at the moment it happened and he didn't play that last game...

30:21He would have known it was going to come out. And that's probably worse, because you're thinking about it. Is it going to come out? So it was the mistake not to bring it out. I don't think he thinks about too much, but... Not knowing about the details. No, I'm just... He's a captain of England. No, but what I was talking about... Should he be captain in the first place? I'm talking about... There's just one thing about mistakes. So I've watched him. He's played nine times out of ten. He's got into double figures. I don't know what the stats are between 20 and 40. But, like, he's must have watched some of that batting and gone, Jesus, I've missed out on some scores here.

30:53And, you know, if I want to be winning games of cricket for England, I mean, we're still talking about bloke who averages 55 in Test and the fastest, the third fastest are 3 ,000 runs.

31:05I hope he sits there, I'm just talking on field first, and just if we're talking about holding people to account as Ben Stokes says he's gonna have some really tough conversations I hope he does talk to Harry Brook even though he's averaging 55 Because for England to take the next step someone like him has to lead that kind of charge as well So I'm now the off-field stuff Let's let's just take Stokesy for a second like Stokesy when we first had him as a As a player and I was captain with him. He could just see this unbelievable rough diamond We saw it. He had so much talent and he didn't allow his talent to come through the pitch.

31:49I remember once I dragged him to my room and he was, you know, he saw he bowls. He was cramping just as a batter and then cramping just as a bowler. And I said, well, he goes, I'm an all-rounder. I said, well, yeah, you are an all-rounder, but today you just were a batter. You weren't an all-rounder, you were just a batter. So you shouldn't cramp because he hadn't got his preparation right. And he was like, look, he did obviously like these people. and he's like, I don't believe it. And then suddenly he's like, look at him now. He's not saying I'm taking any credit for his physical, but he knows the preparation.

32:20So Harry Brook must look at Stokesy and go, right, you can change. And whatever's happening in New Zealand... What are you doing with Harry Brook? Whatever happened in New Zealand, I don't know. So I know you just told me, all the facts are out. What am I doing with him? I think this is going to be one of those moments in his career where the other goes, I'm leading the standards here for this next England side, because they have been loose on this tour and they've also missed details. The reason they've been poor on the side, preparation side, whatever, they've missed so many basic details, which have frustrated me.

32:50He has to be the person alongside that next generation who drives. We're not going out till 2 o 'clock in the morning and getting pissed on the tour today. We're not. We can't afford to do that. Well, they're not good enough to do that fundamentally. How many teams have been? Didn't Ricky do that early in his career? Ricky got into a punch-up, yeah. He did. He wasn't a skipper. He was only about 18, though. He wasn't a skipper. I remember that. he did I mean we've all made mistakes but I guess in the first place goes back to Harry Brooke being name was captain should he have been named captain in the first place because I've seen some of his interviews after at the end of the days playing those 80 eyes it was just for a captain some of the stuff you're saying was is he mature enough to be a captain well this tour is well I think this is gonna put him under a bit of pressure you know the T20 World Cup's coming up and he's obviously is he kept on that now yeah is he yeah he's a skipper you know that's it's just this brushing under the carpet which as Dave said it always gets out eventually someone tells someone and the story kind of gets put together and you're like oh so is this are we now looking up the fit of like Rob Key then well look we get players we've spoken about where are we sitting so Rob Key director of cricket right he's the director he's the boss he put this this management together he you know at the start let's be fair we praised a lot of what baz mccullum did we were like wow this is fantastic um obviously brought ben in captain great move where do we sit with rob key because the detail that you talk about that attention to detail preparation uh selection holding coach building coach whether that's right or wrong but all these kind of uh kind of things that have happened you know the director's in charge of it all yeah you've got a spinning coach here and we haven't played a spinner.

34:32Is he in charge or is Stokes and McCollum in charge? How much power does he have? Rob's the boss. He's the director of English cricket. I get the feeling he's the boss. Can he direct? He should, probably in this review that they're going to have, he would have to direct and say, we're going to change tack and I'm going to stick with you, but you have to change. I think they've accepted that, haven't they? Well, who's going to say to Rob Key? The chief executive of the board. Who's that? Richard Gould. Oh, is that? But isn't there a statement coming out from Mr Gould today or shortly? I think that might be something to do with Harry Brook.

35:08All right, I see. Might be something. But is that a bit like saying to Pep Guardiola, we want you to play the long ball game now? Get it down the middle. Get it down the middle. Get it in the middle. I don't know. Rob Key brought in Baz McCullum. They've had a good fun ride, but they've won nothing. Let's be brutally honest. They haven't won a five-match series. They haven't beaten the Aussies home and away, and they haven't beaten India home and away. They haven't got anywhere near a World Test Championship final. That's what you're judged on in the Test Arena. The white ball cricket team in 2025 toured India, got battered, went to the Champions Trophy, didn't win a game, lost to Saturday, I forget home, go to a T20 World Cup in a few weeks' time.

35:46So the white ball team's actually starting to go a little bit backwards. Do you think this management can change? So you mentioned Guardiola or the guy at United that just got sacked, Ruben Amarin, he arrived at United. this is the way that I play. Philosophy. Philosophy. Well, it's been found out it wasn't good enough. Do you think Baz, Ben and Keezy can actually get together and go, right, we have got it wrong and we can change? Well, they've admitted they've got it wrong, haven't they? They've come out in a number of inches and admitted they've got it wrong. They'd have to. In any sport, you can't just have one way of playing.

36:18You look at tennis players, you don't play the same at Wimbledon as you play at Roland Garros, do you? You don't play football any kind, the same in the wet and the dry. You know, you don't hit a dryer off every tee at golf. It's just common sense. I do sometimes. I like getting a big dog out. It's good to be entertaining and to be positive because you play the game to win and to be positive, but within that framework, you've got to have gears. And they just don't have them, but they have shown it in the last couple of tests they can do it. Can you trust them that they'll get it right next time?

36:51I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. Will they be bringing somebody else in? Here he is. here he is here he is you did say didn't you over dinner that you quite like you said i haven't gone dinner all tour with you you haven't invited me once you're joking lunch you had lunch that's what i mean lunch he's forgot the spin bowling coach here i could be a consultant with the catching absolutely this is it so you look we've got a spin bowling coach in jeter are you getting rid of jeter and you're coming in well no but i can't lorry with the laptop no i'm lord of australia I'm not able to part.

37:24Well, you can take out from Rob Key. You can take out from Rob Key. No, because once you've appointed the people, what do I do? Well, if he's coach, who's your staff? I've got to appoint people, haven't I? Yeah, who are you? I'm going to interview you. I did see your quotes. Who's on your shortlist? Can I do something? Would you? Tell him. Tell him. Tell him. One of his best mates is just taking his level four, keen as mustard to get into coaching. Jimmy Anderson. Jimmy Anderson. Stick to cricket is brought to you by Betfair.

38:01Can we get serious with him for one minute? Yeah, go on. Pressure's on you, mate. I heard it on Sally that the jobs aren't available. But you said on TV that if the jobs came available... I'm pointing, because it is serious, because it's a big role. And if you're going to be appointed a part of the England management team, would you do it? Not saying Baz goes, but if they ask you to come in as an assistant to help, so you've got yin and yang in management, I think we've got this yang on the right and we need a minute yin, which could be you. I think, well, firstly, a head coach, you have to appoint your own people.

38:38But then I say that and I look at what Baz has done and he's appointed quite a lot of people he's really familiar with, which I understand it, but I'm not sure that's always helpful. Because it does seem like in this set-up there's been quite a lot of, I don't want to say yes men. In family, yeah. You know, your outside voice as well. Well, Tim Southey never coached before, becomes bowling coach. Jeetan Patel, one of his best mates. You know, and there's a big New Zealand vibe on that. I honestly, Vaughn, when I woke up and Mike Atherton wrote that thing, it shocked me a little bit because it just was never on my radar.

39:12I never even thought about it. So, have I thought about it? Can I, I have to be honest, have I thought about it since it's been announced? Of course I have. I think your brain always wonders. I do a bit of running and swimming and your brain wonders through it. Do I really want it now? I just don't know. I'm not just saying that, but would I get excited at some stage? Why wouldn't you get excited at some stage, I think? To be the coach or to be director or assistant to help that? I don't think I could be a director. I can't do Rob Key's job. That's not just listening, talking to him and all the off-field stuff.

39:46It would be more... If I did any role, if I did any role, and I haven't been offered... Just want to make it clear to everyone, not being offered anything, never spoke to anyone... We're giving you the job. We'll decide. But it would have to do with the players and getting involved. But just at the minute, I'm quite happy. Do you know what I mean? You don't need the stress. I can control my life. I've got the young family saying how much time is out here. Sheep. Sheep, yeah. So to be honest, I probably would be veering towards no, but if something... He sounded like, yes, Prime Minister. I haven't, again...

40:24But if the opportunity came... Can I be honest with you, I wish Mike Atherton never wrote it, because then the option wouldn't be there. I'll tell you something, it would be interesting, though, you assistant to Baz, it would be like sort of the Prodigy and Mozart. You know what I mean? What could come out of the middle of that? You know, in the mix. It's in the mix. What did he say? He would never pick you in the team. Stokes, he said he would never pick me, so... At the beginning. There's no room for an Alisson cook in my team. Did you see what you've been butting? Yeah, you put me to sleep.

40:58He's a tailor. Sorry, good. Great. What did you make here in that test match here? Fair enough. This one? Yeah, here. 180, I wonder. 189. Well, we wouldn't have minded one of them. We wouldn't have minded one of them. Sorry, Tav, did we even run innings? I think so. Yeah, I did that one. Yeah, there you go. I couldn't watch the bet for more than two hours. I think that's a really good point, though, about... It's almost... Once you're in that team, it's almost harder to get out of it. Well, that will change. That has to change. How many selectors in this mob, this hierarchy? Well, Luke Wright's the chair, and then you've got Rob Key, and then you've got Ben and Baz.

41:36Right, so four official selectors. Yeah, they've got eyes and ears all over the... Have they got actually... Darren Lehman said he'd never seen anyone in Northampton. I'm not too sure they have. They have. I mean... Who have they got? Ray Baker turns up. Who? Jeff Arnold, watching bowlers and reporting back. How many years ago was this? This last year. I was with them. This year. I mean, last year. 2025. Definite. Them two would... Who's Ray Baker? Ray Baker was an opening bowler for Surrey. Sounds like a drummer. What band's he in? What era are we talking about? Ray Baker. What era is this? You sure am?

42:15He's in his 70s. No, it's Ray Baker's not in his 70s. Jeff Eynel's in his 70s. Ray Baker, cricket. He's got some good young scouts. Ray Baker's an English form of cricket. He played for Surrey. How old is he? 1973. 78. yeah he's a lovely bloke right 20 20 70 hang on come on he's always bowling he knows bowling and he knows bowling absolutely yeah no that's right get someone a bit younger i think is that him no that's not is there a role is there a role for sort of like for you no yes no is there a role sort of like this and i think that's a i think that baz and stokes have created a really good dressing room atmosphere even though crikey how do some of the boys walk back into the dressing room after playing some of them shots well there's no accountability because there's no accountability that's how they do it yeah what's it what's the great should have went harder probably they'd say is that right yeah what's the great dressing room environment the one that australia are sitting in now because they've won yeah but is there a role is there a role for a coach and you know and a captain to create that vibe but then like a director of football or something you know but you know I mean like a person who could then be outside of that bubble sort of you know you want like that you want to like a first-team coach and the manager in the I think they're all too emotionally tied to this group.

44:05I think you do need an emotional detachment away from them. You need a fresh set of eyes. So he just mentioned Fergie at Carrington, and he watched from his window, he could see everything, and the staff worked the players. He selects the team. He gives the last word before they go out, and his last word is win. That's his last word, win. So what I'd say to this, and they won't like all the criticism, them but if they were us right so when I watched down on the morning and see both teams warming up I see Australian it's such a like a professional operation Kerry comes out early doing all those little drills yet the bowlers doing the run-throughs that's the same high balls go up what's the high ball coach for Australia who gets that thing maps into the boundary like a catty load of eyeballs wake up well I'm just sitting here just enjoying who's the assistant coach oh I've got a from Victoria yeah but you know it's the military when you look down and look at England you know whether it looks a little bit flimsy it really you've got the pig game going on with the football you know that goes on forever you've got one or two hitting balls into the net satisfying bats prepare however they wish then you get the odd bowler bowling through to the keeper, Jamie Smith, he just gets the pad and takes the bowlers I've seen that for a long period of time, but you kind of look down and go there's one team that looks ultra professional and one that doesn't and again, whether they like that or not, that's what I see and I think that's something that they can really learn and improve upon No, I just say I agree when you look at that and if England won, everyone goes, look at them, they're nice and relaxed they're taking the pressure out of the situation but they've lost so that's our job to then look at it and when you lose and you said all along if you go back to probably this first podcast we spoke at the Ashes when we looked at preparation we said all of us went that doesn't look quite right but they're doing things differently they prepare differently in terms of not taking people going to that two day game all this kind of stuff it's all judged on results so the results are they've lost 4-1 they've lost some games heavily so if you judge everything on the results so therefore they look lackadaisical in the warm-up.

46:19Their bowlers weren't fit, hadn't played enough. Anyone could see that, couldn't they? How many games were you thinking Archer and Wood were going to get through? I was thinking they might play two or three games each, that's it. Did you see Bethel's quote? That's what happened. Bethel's quote. What's the old one? He said, well, you can net all you want, but you only really get practice in the middle. He said that accidentally. He said that, I swear, in the last couple of weeks. He did, he did, I heard that. And again, you make your ears prick up and go, well, so why didn't half our guys go to Canberra and go and play that two-day camp?

46:55They were very strong, aren't they? Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair.

47:03Yep, they've got things wrong and it's a glaring opportunity, this myth, because if we go through to the Australian team, look, they're a good team, but they're not a great team. You know, on this Australian side, I reckon we're there for the taking with the amount of players that discipline discipline strong yeah that lad bolland he's a seasoned pro and he's just i've been calling him bolland

47:38Michael Nisa anytime any end yeah just ball bats a bit Mitchell start devastating world-class hard and cricketers aren't they I don't cricket a little card as well yeah with a bit of nose well nice just play a lot of county cricket isn't he he's no superstar but you made him look pretty good in this series yeah big belly webster he comes in this little steady but our batting was iffy and you look at the series whether all hardly made a run green hardly made a run labashane hardly made a run you know we had our standouts we really won off the back of Stark head all the carry and bond did the area and good disciplines catching yeah we didn't drop a catch Half a dozen and England dropped 18 or 19.

48:25Yeah, he dropped some catches, but not many. Also, I think, when you're England, I don't know when it's your side, and I don't say our side, but you watch England, you're supporting them. When Australia, when every England battle went out, right, you saw a tactic for them. Every player had a different thing. And I was like, yeah, so you knew, as soon as Jamie Smith came out to bat, three men on the leg side straight away, right? Whether they bowl bounce or not. Then I know I'm just going to use one incident I know there's only 160 First ball to Travis Head today I actually quite like the field You know, short target Deep point, deep square leg Because you think, right, Travis Head gets off to a flyer Got a, you know, still got a slip sin We don't want him to get a flyer Let's bowl at Wetherill Exactly the same field for the very next ball To a bloke who was averaging 17 or whatever in the series And now the deep point As if one side It's going back to this one side of the detail The detail I think Stokes as captaincy, you've got to say, was pretty ordinary, I think, throughout the whole series, wasn't it?

49:22He had an off-series, yeah. Usually, I mean, in the last two or three years, that series when he was in Pakistan, the first tour, he was incredible. Did he show too much loyalty to certain bowlers? Well, I can't believe that he's not taken the new ball throughout the whole series. He stayed fit until, obviously, the final fence here, but to think that he's not bowled one ball with a brand-new ball, when the new ball's travelled for England, at the odd wicket, but it's travelled. Our bowling coach arrived the day before the first game, didn't you, Dave Saker? Our main bowling coach went to Dubai to play.

49:54Went to Dubai and played. You listen to Stuart Broad, he said you need a rapport with your bowling coach to work out plans and grips and try this, try that. But you need a trust with him as well. So if these young guys like Tong and Karsh don't know the bowling coach, you're going to be a bit standoffish, aren't you? That's three years of planning too, isn't it? That's what we said, we said all along, apparently. And no fielding coach. Look, it's one of those series that you look back and think, they've got so much wrong. So surely they'll learn from that. Not bringing a spare keeper, not bringing a spare opener, not having a fielding coach.

50:33They'll say that Baz McCullum is a fielding coach, but I don't see him drilling all the players, I don't see all the high ball. He said in our thing he's under-resourced. Yeah, well... No, that's what I'm saying, he said I'm under-resourced. But he got rid of them, he got rid of everyone. That was his decision to strip it down. You know, Freddie Wilde, the Stato. Sorry, Laurie, you know, he's one of your crew. Not taking offence, no. But he was kind of pushed aside. Don't want too much information, don't want to overload the players. Well, to win the big series and the big sporting trophies, generally, you need all the detail.

51:04We don't want it all ripped up, though, do we? Look, you've just rubbed them all out there, Mike. There's not one on the left. I was just bored of listening to you. I just want them all to learn and I want them to accept that they've made mistakes, learn from it and if they're willing to not be stubborn, and I think stubbornness is a key component with Ben and Baz if they're willing to kind of accept, I think they can move forward Well those last three games you've just watched, I know Australia have won 2-1 those last two games but they've been really competitive cricket, really light and we haven't gone I've got to say, Australia were poor in Melbourne.

51:42I thought Australia played without any sort of conviction. It wasn't an Australian performance, so I know you guys won. Yeah, but that was three-nil. It was a win, but I thought Australia... Yeah, there was a consolation. Well, it was a flukey win, you called it. Well, that was a flukey win. Fluky win. Right, we're finished right. Some awards. Some awards. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Yeah, we'll start with the best innings of the series. Who wants to start? Best innings? I'm going to start straight away, Jacob Bethel. I reckon the best innings but most important innings was Travis Head.

52:21Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying, I saw something yesterday, I was like, that was batting at its finest. That was, for me, poetry. For three or four years watching the basketball, I've kind of doubted myself whether I was going, a bit too dinosaur-y and all the more it's all about technique and yesterday i thought oh yes yeah that's what it was a lovely look i'm going jacob bethel's okay

52:55carrie carrie head i'm going to miss well you've got to just choose one i'm going head at her talking out loudly okay and we'll do that aren't we yeah absolutely Travis said. Travis said which one? Which of the three? Perth. Influence. I think head. It's a two horse race. A lot of people thought England were going to win when they had 200 to Barlow in Perth and Travis went bang. I'm going head at Adelaide. Head in Adelaide. Is that right? Second dig. It's a long time ago. When he got dropped on 99. Yeah and then went on again. 170. Crikey, we nearly won that test at Adelaide. Well, with Jamie Smith.

53:35We'll come to Jamie Smith in a minute. I think Bethel, just ahead. OK. Right, let's move on. Best dismissal of the series. Oh, yes, I've got it. Yeah, easy, easy, today. I absolutely pissed myself. Labashade, run out. You've got to go off, mate. You're out. You can't stay there. You've got to go off. Mate, mate, you're out. Taxi! I think Stokes has got a figure in a heap of them, doesn't he? Stokes, some of his dismissals. Because he always gets the ball of the century. Had a few nitbackers and nipple-waves. What about Smithy? What about all of Snicko's dismissals? No, I'd just like to thank Snicko.

54:19He had a bad series. Oh, I've got a shocker. He needs to reset. I reckon he needs to go. I think when you know it's your time, it's your time. Will Jax's ear was a bit of a strange one. You've got a good one. Jamie Smith. He's got a feature heavily. I tell you what, Will Jacks to Steve Smith. Oh, that's a good ball. That's a good ball. That is a dismissal. Oh, it's a pair. That's like your delivery to Brian Lyra, was it? No, it's such a gentle good. Not far, though. I mean, I enticed the drive, but obviously Steve was beaten by defence. So you've gone labrish, then. What are you going? Then I will go...

55:00Do you know what, I'm gonna stay with Bumble, I did enjoy his reaction to that Yeah I'll go that one as well Or a lavishing catch, I can't remember what it was I thought that catch on the boundary was unbelievable, that one-handed one Whoever it was Oh, I've got another one I've got Camber and Green Oh, they're... Oh, they're gonna work That's the exact way Right, yeah Yeah, she is That's not far off That was... that almost was better than the English ones, that one Yeah, why don't we have a podium, Ralph? We'll have a podium for the worst shot of the series Oh, jeez Worst shot So many of them You can think Cam Green, you can go Jamie Smith at Adelaide, Perth, Perth, Nicky.

55:33He got a good one off Marnus, didn't he? No, it was a good delivery. Yeah, nipped away or nipped back at him. Well, he got one in front of the face, it kind of hit the shoulder of the bat and it went all the way to Deepak Strickland. It was a quick delivery one from Marnus. That's the worst. So podium, right? So bronze medalists with the worst shot of the series. I think Green's got to be there. He backed away. Yeah, and Green third. So he gets the bronze, yeah. Cam Green. Tough third. Green. bronze bronze yeah now the now the poms silver medalist silver medalist i've just remembered what ollie pope had laid off of off nathan line no yeah no jacks jacks yeah yeah the gold medalist for the the worst shots of the 25 26 actually got to be jay smith he had a couple of contenders yeah four fours on the track from yeah i'm thinking five on the try it yeah go deep long gone we need the game yeah yeah I think that's right I think that's just done lovely just finish on 27 who will win the ashes in 2027 Australia have not winning England since 201 last two seasons yeah you are without your big boy I'm not going for a draw to all again they can draw yeah yeah I think in the morning 27 without the big lads throwing them down at yeah I think we've got a chance I think Cummings is making it yeah easy I think Smith will make it like scoffing some green will be better green tool back to England here backing them back to me yeah actually I I tipped him in the 2-all here.

57:31Yeah, I said 2-all. Do you remember, what did you say? 4-1. 2-1. And you said 5-0. Yeah, I said, well done. You weren't far off. You weren't far off. He's where you're doing it. Yeah, I just... You were looking good for the first day in session. Yeah. We're just trying to have a bit of fun, but it's just... Not that funny, is it? I think I'll finish you on that. Well done, lads. Well done, boys. Well done, guys. Thanks, bro.

58:17Thanks for listening and thanks to our partners, Betfair. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode. And if you want to support the show, please leave us a five-star review and help others find it too. See you next time.