Graeme Swann: Pietersen Fallout, Facing Shoaib Akhtar and NYC With Sachin! | Stick to Cricket EP 66

0:00Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. This episode is sponsored by ZocDoc. Have you been putting off a doctor's appointment or need a dentist and you don't know where to start? We've definitely been there and that's why we use ZocDoc. Actually, over the holidays, Michael had a dental emergency and seemingly every office was closed. but we hopped onto ZocDoc, found an in-network dentist, had great reviews, saw real-time appointments available, which was key. It was on New Year's Day and booked an appointment in just minutes.

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1:21One all-in-one product designed to make supplementation easier. The day pack supports cognition, focus, and cellular energy production. At night, the night pack helps you wind down and supports a calm, relaxed state. Less time managing your supplements, more support for your day and night. Shop Total Human now at onnit.com. This is Hannah Berner from Giggly Squad. O-Pill is the first over-the-counter daily birth control pill available in the U.S. Let's be real. getting a birth control prescription is not always easy and it's so much admin in fact about a third of women face barriers to access prescription birth control between scheduling appointments missing work class or just trying to exist it's a lot but now opil is putting birth control in our control opil is a daily birth control that's fda approved full prescription strength and estrogen free and 98 effective when used as directed grab it online or at most major retailers no prescription or doctor's appointment needed.

2:21So if you're thinking about birth control, check out OPILL to see if it's right for you. Use code GIGLY for 25 % off your first month of OPILL at O-P-I-L-L dot com. That's code GIGLY at O-P-I-L-L dot com. Birth control in your control. We love to see it. Vaughn, I said a full English. Huh? This is not the full English I ordered. Oh, sorry, so we can't do that. What do you want? What do you want? Sausage and eggs and stuff? Yeah, that'd be great, thanks. Hey!

2:48Michael Vaughan: No carbs. Can you get him some sausage and eggs? One cup of eggs. Or a cappuccino would be lovely. On the way, mate. He is looking trim. I got fit, mate. Right, did you win it?

2:57Sir Alastair Cook: Did you win this competition? No, I didn't win it.

2:59Michael Vaughan: No, I didn't make the sundae.

3:00Sir Alastair Cook: I saw you this morning and you've got to wear this. This is what I wear this morning. When you're playing golf, you need some of this. Yeah, nice kit. How much is it? G4 kit. How much? How much? Very nice. Great, pricey.

3:13Michael Vaughan: I gave him a... It's not on cricketers' pay grade. Well, modern cricketers. This is G4 as well. I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, don't do freebies I grant that's Very nice.

3:24Sir Alastair Cook: How's me birth their oven coming on?

3:26Michael Vaughan: Oh, can I give you a tip? I'm not as good as Lisa I tried it the week after with my pal. We weren't quite as good as a anyway I think about Gardner doing it. Yeah, she came round. I haven't seen you for a while. No, no, no.

3:46Sir Alastair Cook: Are you on another holiday? Are you now on the PGA Tour? I'm not on the PGA Tour. Did you make it? I saw one shot on TV, though, but when he stuck it to me in about three feet. Oh, dogs, dogs. No, no, no, I didn't. What, that birdie? Here he is getting done. A birdie for Michael, boy. Laced about timing, didn't it?

4:00Michael Vaughan: Right, now and again, you get Lucky Grave, you know that. Just now and again, the cameras arrive. Have you done it? Didn't.

4:06Sir Alastair Cook: What? Didn't seem to be there when I shanked a few. Here. now they'd be and this this has to go in at the dunhill who was the most famous person that you met you can't have pierce because we know his was there he's famous there amit batia who's just bought my liverpool amit batia yeah he's just bought liverpool with the man city owners there

4:32Michael Vaughan: or not it can't be they weren't there i don't know they weren't there james gilner gareth bale

4:39Sir Alastair Cook: they're great lad yeah good player but james milner plays at same golf club as you do yeah

4:44Michael Vaughan: he made the cut milner did he yeah good player yeah i thought he was still playing football he's about 58 now well the the guy who does you get that week off pre-season he'll be coming back making a comeback when man city are in the scottish league too that's terrible that's not not right that's not rude all it rude all it yeah yeah and with that goal he scored in it it was a header was it 88 yeah yeah with the air cut with the ollie banks there ollie banks tommy field york city because they've not had a break have they up because it's no no of course

5:24Sir Alastair Cook: we did we were playing uh but i think barnett had uh international call-ups so we play northampton this week go on you cobblers yeah Northampton we're playing this week but you're one point above relegation and we are one point off the top I'm from Northampton

5:41Michael Vaughan: we're from Newcastle how are you the lads Swanee hello I think you were expecting Keno to be here I was hoping Roy Keno to be here I've got my podcast mixed up yeah sorry about that your baby he's a baby yeah yeah your big baby you'd have had Jamie Carrague be there Jamie Carrague is a thousand times funnier than this man however I'm gonna say this to Cookie. I love Cookie to bits, you know this. And I sat next to him for years in an England change room and the amount of funny stuff he actually came out with under his breath because he was too shy to say it out loud that I would then instantly steal and take all the plaudits for.

6:17So you are funny. He genuinely is. Only with people he likes though, so he's obviously... It was a good skip though, wasn't it? A good skip? He did his job. I'll tell you what he was good at, letting me and Jimmy set our own field. I think part of being a good captain is knowing how to control your bowlers. And giving people like me, Jimmy and Brodie carte blanche to do whatever we wanted. We did always, because then we had arguments about when I wanted something else. Yeah, but it was never right, so we never did it. Skippy, you've got to take control of this. No, I did. But trying to have him any time in a one-day game to have any more.

6:56Did you ever bowl in the power play? No, I did. Did I? Did I? Did it once. He did it once. I hate Everett. No, no, no. I was forced to do it once. Straussi, my favourite England captain, said to me, Graham, I'd like you to open the bowling against Chris Gayle at Bristol. Good lad. Now that boundary is 13 yards behind the stumps. It's ridiculous. And I said, Straussi, please don't do this to me, please. He said, no, no, I think you'll get him out. And he hit me for the biggest six. I swear to God, it took out a plane taken off at Bristol Airport. And I did get him out next ball with an arm ball.

7:31Oh, lovely. And yeah, even having got the wicket, I went up to him and went, please never, ever do that to me again. I'm just... Oh, so Straussie was right. Well, because most... Oh, no, Straussie was always right. Straussie was brilliant. He did it at Melbourne once, where he came up to me, Michael Clarke was batting. And I couldn't get... I was bowling really well, but I couldn't get him out. Good player, Clarke. And it wasn't turning at all, but I kept beating him on the outside. Collie had missed a couple at slip. Oh, Colin. And I was starting to pull my hair out. I love how he knows the drop.

7:58You're terrible. I remember you dropping Tendulkar at Oval Steel. I would have had him twice in the game. It's more on it short. It's not that difficult. I know, to be honest, Gray. Yeah, it's short. Anyway, he used to do short legs because Benny didn't like doing it. So, Cookie and Sandler, to be fair, he did it for five years.

8:14Michael Vaughan: I was wrong, I quite enjoyed it. You were like a skipper? Yeah. No. No, no, no. I did one game in the skipper. So, Clark is batting and Strauss came up to me after about 10. And they were like, how about I go to second slip and you go round the wicket? And I went, fuck off, Strauss. I've never had anyone caught second slip from round the wicket. He goes, ah, but how often have you tried? I went, go on, then. Go on, stand there. First ball. Straight to Andrew Strauss. I was just like, you absolute buffoon. Yeah. So he was a good captain. Trying to get you to have people up in a one-day game. Well, what's the point in a one-day game?

8:49Because sometimes you're in tights. No, it's nonsense. Just because you were a terrible player of spin doesn't mean that international battersmen were... This is honour, bullying, then. No, it's fair. Step in, Dave. You're the granddad of the show. I kind of expected it. I thought he'd have ten minutes of just abusing me. Before he settles down.

9:07Sir Alastair Cook: Was it a genuine arm baller? Yeah, it was. No, genuine. Can we check it as well, please? It was basically... Ask him to check that. So you got him out second ball for six? It would be, I reckon it would be first over.

9:23Michael Vaughan: It was at Bristol, Whitey. In a one-day game. What year are we talking, do you reckon? Well, Stroustie's still playing. 2008, 2008? Is he still playing? He lives in Hong Kong now, Stroustie. Does he? He's gone to Hong Kong. What for? To live there. Why? I think he's exhausted the Bank of England's funds, so he's going to take the Bank of Singapore's now. Has he really? I'm going to Hong Kong in November, I'll see you. Are you doing the carbine? You've done that before? I'm doing a bit of golf. You're not golf. For the first pro event. Clearwater Bay? Yes. It's amazing. It's the best golf course you've not played yet.

10:05It's brilliant.

10:07Michael Vaughan: I'll tell you where I'm going in a few years. I'm going to Japan. You've been to Japan? What are we doing wrong? It's because you've not been playing golf.

10:17Sir Alastair Cook: the other day there's an afghanistan premier i'll tell you where i've just been rotherham a bit of rotherham and chesterfield away games yeah we're in the away end yeah chesvagan is this

10:27Michael Vaughan: virtue cup 2009 it was there you go first over first over he got 31. all right your first

10:40Sir Alastair Cook: yeah we've held him 31 there you go hold on well done did he did he ever settle down in the changing room, was he like this all the time? Most of the time. If he's like that and Jimmy don't say a word... Jimmy does, though. You don't get Jimmy. Jimmy's got this facade that everyone thinks he doesn't say a word. But as soon as he's actually behind closed doors or has one sip of lager, he's bulletproof. Cookie wouldn't know, but I did have a lot of downtime in the changing room sleeping, but it was while he was batting. And even though I take the mic out of him royally, I absolutely adore Cookie, Strauss and Trot, even though you wouldn't pay to watch him.

11:14they were the best top three any bowler could ever ask if they were batting in the road what did you not sure the good I used to love doing my impression of cookie because I mean he's scored more runs than anyone yes but it's fine I think once he went to off drive on an inside edge it's fine leg as to me and Jimmy just from that moment on so you got another test under fine legs scamper through for a single running like Woody from Toy Story. This is our best ever player. Just rinsing him.

11:48Sir Alastair Cook: He was thrilled to bits a couple of weeks ago when he come in and said he'd hit a six for the local farmers. It wasn't actually a six, it was a hit for two and they overthrew it for four. It's in the book. It's in the book of a six. All I will say is...

12:03Michael Vaughan: Why aren't you playing in this Champions team? I've just seen it, didn't you?

12:07Sir Alastair Cook: Toby Roland-Jones is playing.

12:08Michael Vaughan: Toby Roland-Jones, you've got Ravi Bapak. Parra, Jason Roy. They're still playing. Colonel must have got 31 off seven. See, he won in the game yesterday. Yeah, he still plays quite well.

12:19Sir Alastair Cook: Who the Colonel? This is nonsense. Alistair Cook has a T200. See, I got that in. No one else brought it up. You think I bully you. You should be in that team. What, for Ezekiel? That wasn't good. No, for Essex. One of the first teams. He's got a genuine T200. Who's opening the batting in this team, then? I don't know. I got it. I looked at it this morning. How much were you demanding to play there? It's the cash. He wanted too much cash. That determines whether you get picked for those leagues. No, but it was when I asked my agent, because someone texted me saying, are you doing it? I rang Mike.

12:52And I was like, he just had to... He rang me back in half an hour later and said, they didn't want you. I was like, aw. It's good honesty for Mike.

12:59Michael Vaughan: You've got number one, Ravi Bapara. Great lad. Number two, David Malan. Still playing. Number three, Jason Roy. Still playing. Number four, Samit Patel. Just finished. Stephen Plurin is still playing for 25 different teams. What I like about this, then you go Colonel Mustard. 37, actually, off 17. Four sixes. Liam Plunkett's down to come in at six. Toby Ronan Jones at seven.

13:22Sir Alastair Cook: Roly Torby, John.

13:24Michael Vaughan: Jonathan Trot at eight. Trotty got in. What role's that for Trotty? That's fucking... I'm sorry. Adj Mel Shaddad. That's really hurting, actually. Side bottom. And Monty. Good old Monty. And Monty's in. Monty.

13:40Sir Alastair Cook: Monty sat there. I love Monty. We're talking about football. Who's going to win the Premier League? He said, Luton. Can I tell you a quick story about Monty that I still love? Because everyone knows Monty, this lovable buffoon who played for England. And he really is an amazing bloke. When he was only 18, 19, and he was playing for Northampton, he lived in Luton. So Luton's Northampton, for those who don't know, 50 miles of M1. And this one morning, Nick Cook, our second team coach, says, look, Monty's not going to get it. There's been a big smash near Milton Keynes. Monty probably won't get here today.

14:12M1's shut. Everyone's stuck on it. 20 minutes later, Monty runs through the gate. I said, Monty, how the hell did you get here? He went, oh, I used the other lane, that empty one on the left. He had to dodge a couple of police cars. He'd just turned 90 down the hard shore. Oh, I love Monty. He was there on 10, had no idea.

14:34Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. So just hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

14:46You think you're funny, don't you? Come on then, tell me a joke. Tell me to make me laugh. And I went, all right. And Darce says, Luke, I know what you're getting for your birthday. How can it be? I have felt your presence.

14:59Michael Vaughan: When you mentioned Kevin, what was happening there? Who did he do? Oh, Peterson?

15:05Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Sort it out. I think we would be on that, Dave. Sort it out. I played in a charity match in the West Indies with Brian Lara, where unbelievably he got out to Piers Morgan. He's like the Michael Jordan of cricket. He goes, oh, I thought he'd be *** taller. He bowls to the left, he bowls to the right. Mitchell Johnson, you're bowling his ***. That's weird though, Strictly, isn't it? You meet some weird people.

15:3523 hours a day. 24 hours a day.

15:37Sir Alastair Cook: You should have put a pint in it.

15:43Sir Alastair Cook: That was good fun playing with Northouts. Yeah, it was. Back in the day. At the time, we had Jason Brown, who was a brilliant... Sorry for the other guy. The most underrated off-spinner ever. Great drift, didn't he? Yeah, we had Michael Davis, who was a left-arm spinner. He got an England A tour. He got yipped up. He came to Essex. But a brilliant ball. and fed myself and we had Monty and we had a groundsman, David Bates. It was Yorkie. Yorkie, Yorkie, Yorkie. But he used to mow the wicket and he had a pair of Kirtley Ambrose's old bowling boots. This is no joke, size 14 boots. And he'd put them on and go, oh, well, go up and down the length.

16:18Just wear these boots. Just to try and get it. And it ragged. And it did rag. It was flat as a pancake for 16 yards. But it looked beautiful. But it'd go pew.

16:28Sir Alastair Cook: Let me tell you, that's been done before. It happens all the time, doesn't it? Nuts, Nuts, Eddie Emmons and Clive Rice and bloody Sir Richard Hadley. The green trampoline, they still call it that. Do you know they were good pitchers? Emerald green and then brown. They were good pitches then at Trent Bridge. Green pitches, good bounce, good carry. And same for your lot as well, if you've got some good ballers. Yeah, yeah. You have to bowl well together wickets there, don't you, Trent Bridge. But yeah, you had Hadley. so not going to bowl better than him are they what's your average for the ball at Trent Bridge did alright one who'd you get out Indian legend played 100 test matches nicked off the opening bowler what was his name Shant Sharma two things happened in that game you got your wicket and Jimmy got 80 on that's right didn't bounce above that my highest test score was 85 and when Jimmy got to 80 I have never appealed louder from when he was out.

17:29I've never celebrated more in my life. I think he was LB or he might have been caught behind but I remember going up with it. I was in the con box and I was like, yes! I didn't get 80. It didn't bounce above Sean. Because Jimmy's got every record in the book and if he'd also got more runs than me that would have been the end of me. I love you, Jimmy.

17:47Michael Vaughan: Swan, do you remember back in the day when you were picked for England at 20 years of age? I do remember it. Nasser described you as a schoolboy cricketer. Yeah.

17:56Sir Alastair Cook: I was on that I was there.

17:58Michael Vaughan: I was there. Oh, you were there. I was there. My first tour. I remember Phil Chuffler was my mentor. I didn't play for eight more years. You never that trip for you. All you do is sit at the bar drinking lager and you ate nuts. Well, you haven't saved money. That's all I did. Is that South Africa?

18:14Sir Alastair Cook: You thought that was the way you did it? I thought that's what you did, yeah.

18:16Michael Vaughan: Samson's Sun Hotel. I've got a nut allergy as well. Samson's Sun. Samson's Sun. Samson's Sun. Samson's Sun. The lift, you know, the glass lift. You could see people coming down the lift. By the bar at the bottom. Who sat at the bar? The cat every night. Sat at the bar. Pint of lager. Bowl of nuts. Was that Fletcher's first tour? It was. Me and Duncan didn't get on very well. No. You're not. I could never guess. Nass are never like me. Still doesn't. But I love Nass. And I love teasing him that he could have won an Ashes if he'd pick me. But, you know, some ex-captains do get bitter about not winning the Ashes, Nass.

18:50But, no, yeah, I was. I was a schoolboy cricketer. I was 19. I was picked on that tour because English cricket was in the pits in the doldrums. Do you remember New Zealand beat us at the Oval? That's right. Well, we've seen him on the sky or summer.

19:02Sir Alastair Cook: It's held nicely that game. It's held nicely. Chris Cairns hit one that's not landed yet. No, he hit four off Phil. But one of them. We've gone through this as well. So they said, right, we're going to take four, like, unheard of, so whatever. And Vaughn was one of them. Darren Maddy. This was, I mean, obviously he was known in county cricket. Chris Hastie-Bowl. myself gavin he didn't get a ball took 50th over gavin did he oh he bagged him and look for no no no no no no but not but nas me and that's didn't get on because i was he was from the old school where he'd been bullied when he first started playing cricket so he thought that was what you did to youngsters i'm sure of it um so he wasn't particularly nice to the younger lads especially one who was cocksure and would have a joke who that who that yeah that was me and so But I thought, I'm not going to change.

19:53I'm here, you know, as I said, Phil Tuffman was my mentor. And I was having the time of my life. But I always remember the first test at Joburg when we were four for two. It was dark. And it was nipping. And Donald was balling rapidly. That's when you got in.

20:07Michael Vaughan: We were two for four. Two for four, yeah. But, you know, so we lost that test. And I remember being at Cape Town. And me and Gav Hamilton were 12 men. And we had just sat there with gloves or whatever. And we started really well. We must have batted an hour and a half. And I just nudged Gav. I went, Donald's not bowling very well today. And Nasser was right behind. I didn't know him. Nasser was right behind. He goes, shut up! Swan, you idiot! Shut up! Shut up! I went, Nasser, don't be stupid. I can't... You know, putting the mockers on things doesn't actually work. Next ball, Athens was out. And so Nasser had to go into bat.

20:45And I'm going, oh, my God, what have I done? And he got out before lunch. and I was just Gav was like he's going to kill you I said I think he actually is going to kill you and so at Cape Town there's rooms out the back where you have your food and it's just a team on its own and so I got in there quick and I was sat on a table with the 12 men with Alex Tudor and with Gav and I had this food and I suddenly get this I can see a shadow over me and I look up and it's nasty and he has like steam coming out of his ears Swan you think you're funny don't you Come on, then tell me a joke. Tell me, make me laugh.

21:20And I went, all right. So anyone would just shut up. But I went, all right. I said, Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker are having a lightsaber fight. And he looks at me, what? And Darth says, Luke, I know what you're getting for your birthday. Luke says, that's impossible. And he goes, I know what you're getting for your birthday. How can it be? I have felt your presence.

21:48Now, at that point, and I said it, and Tudes is just like, he's had food come out of his nose. And Gav Hamilton's like crying, but he's trying to not let his shoulders go. And that's just like, his eyes went wider and wider. And he just shook his head and picked his, and walked off in disbelief. And so it was eight years later when I actually got picked him.

22:12Michael Vaughan: That now explains why you didn't play for eight minutes. I mean, that was one of a litany of disasters for me on that trip.

22:19Sir Alastair Cook: He asked you to tell him a joke. Yeah, I know. You're a skipper, wasn't it? Anything for the captain. Did coffee punch you? Yeah, but that's a different story. That was in the toilet. Same toilet. Same toilet, yeah. Is that true? It is true, yeah. I was on that side. I was on that side. He punched him. I was like, I'm sure I was in the bar. In the bar? No, he was in the toilet. I was in the bar area. then they should all something's happening that's awesome isn't it we're in the bar with ian wism

22:59he was shown as his golf swing with a bar stool that's it yeah yeah

23:03Sir Alastair Cook: I remember Santa and Son, wouldn't you? Yeah, yeah. What was Duncan Fletcher doing throughout all this? Oh, having a lot. Just shaking his head. Yeah, me and Duncan were destined not to get on very well. He didn't seem to enjoy cricket as much as I did. It was more of an occupation rather than a hobby. So how did you go on in later life with Duncan and Nasser? I think I get on all right with Nasser now because I still take the mickey out of him. And he's fine. I haven't seen Duncan since. I want that tour. You never played under Fletch? I never played, yeah. So I never played. I played one game on that tour in Blomfontein.

23:39Yes. I remember that in the Shacks. The King of Spain was injured. And so I get... Honestly, at the end of that tour, I was so miserable. We were there with Sky.

23:49Sir Alastair Cook: We were covering all this. I was so miserable and desperate to go home that when I was actually picked to play for England my first game, I was gutted. Was that one day? I picked for one day and I was like, I just want to get out of here. Because it wasn't a nice camp to be in as a youngster. and I just had a feel. I'd been fine. Mark Eamon didn't play in that, did he?

24:07Michael Vaughan: Yeah, it would have been there. Healy would have been there. No, you were great. No, you were great. Did Healy get five for in that game? Healy got five for you.

24:15Sir Alastair Cook: Dave Orchard was the umpire. That's right, yeah. Dave Orchard. I bowled five overs and then I got taken off for our other spin and Graham Hick and I thought, this isn't great for me. And I went down on the boundary. Do you remember a centurion at lunch

24:27Michael Vaughan: when he used to have to do the field interest? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember. And he just went, no, I ain't doing it. Send me home, I don't care. He went out and doing it, but he realised that the coach only had six balls. He had to catch ten on the trot. It was a fitness session as well, and he realised we're six balls. So he just kept on launching the ball over Fletchers. And once the six ball came down, he just launched it over there and walked straight.

24:52Sir Alastair Cook: It was never going to work. He was never going to finish well. I remember you played in a game there. We went to sort of like a Pochus stream. No, it was sort of like a little like a what they called the township township. Yeah, it was It was a one day game. It was a one day.

25:10Michael Vaughan: Yeah warm-up game on it.

25:11Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, my car and teen he was

25:18Michael Vaughan: It was it was yeah, yeah, it was outside Joe but what was it? We did all our games a bit up in Joe big around there. Yeah, and we went to open I I'm as that's right. So so I only played in that game because Alma Lally Did he's right? I'll Malau I'm very right. I'm a batter Obviously Alma allowed disease hamstring in the warm-ups playing football And that's where I was gonna replace our Milan Fletch kind of had a bit of a fancy on me He went I've only can replace him and I batted at number eight bold left arm We were 50 for six and I went in another time was still at the other end He'd batted all, and I got a few.

25:57Michael Vaughan: The rest is history. Against Simcox?

26:00Sir Alastair Cook: Pat Simcox.

26:01Michael Vaughan: Pat Simcox. Brilliant. Yeah, I got a few and then went, all right, you're in the team.

26:06Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah.

26:07Michael Vaughan: Because Maddie had batted it from four. Can you imagine? And if they banned football from warm-up, they'd have been robbed of our best captain. Second best captain.

26:13Sir Alastair Cook: So, Ansi Cronje is captain of South Africa. That's right, he is, yeah. Had you any inkling? Oh, I have. I'll run the gloves out. I'll run the gloves out to tell them that, sir. I was man of the match in that game. I ran the grabs out to tell Nasser that... You were the negotiator. No, no, no. I'd had to do one and Nasser had another go at me because I ran out and he said, tell him we'll chase 320 in 65. And I went out. I went, Nasser says 320 in 65. He went, no, tell him 280 in 80. I went, all right. Ran off and I went, he says 280 in 80. You can't do anything, Swan. You can't do anything. Fletch, I must have told you then because Fletch told me then to go and tell you.

27:03I was stripped of duty. I wasn't going back out because he thought I was making it up. Because of that joke. Because he just thought Swan's an idiot. I love it. He was chief negotiator. Chief negotiator.

27:14Sir Alastair Cook: I was at there. Hansy came and knocked on the door because I was 12ers. He knocked on the door and I said, get his Fletch here. so I go, yeah, like that, and he's gone, like in the bogs at the back. Yeah, all good stuff happens in the toilet.

27:31Michael Vaughan: I didn't get a leather jacket, I was man of the match. I got nothing.

27:35Sir Alastair Cook: If anything, I've never played after that. This is the original. That's the original. Send reinforcements, we're going to advance. He said, send reinforcements, we're going to a dance.

27:54Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair.

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30:08Michael Vaughan: So did you look back and think if England had waited two or three more years to pick you, you'd have been ready at 22, 23? No. I mean, you could... Were you right, when you did end up playing and had a great career after, were you like properly right to play at that stage? I think so. Or do you reckon if you'd have picked you two or three years earlier, do you think you'd have been ready then? I think I would have been. However, I always look back and think that everything happens for a reason. I'm a big believer in that, the way you get shapes and everything. That first tour, even though, I mean, looking back, it was a car crash from my point of view.

30:42I mean, my behaviour was just ridiculous. I was 19. I would say most people's behaviour was pretty much. I've just been given a£35 ,000 tour thing, which at the time was more than my house cost. I was single. I was in South Africa. I was having the time of my life, but cricket-wise. I did everything now that if I was talking to a 19-year-old, and say, don't do this. I'd be the original poacher-turned-gamekeeper. But that shaped me. And then five or six years of playing county cricket at Northampton made me a good bowler on turning pitch. But it wasn't until I went to Nottingham, 2005, when I'd had my fill with Kepa Vessels and I thought, I cannot stay here anymore.

31:18He'd had his fill with me as well. And it was a toss-up between Lancashire and Nottingham. And Nottingham came to me, Mick Newell, and he said, look, I'll be honest, I want to win the championship next year. I don't care about one-day cricket for this year, but I want to win the championship. I've asked Reedy and Frank C, they've said that you're the spinner who's going to help us do it. And I went, brilliant, but I've got to talk to Lanks. And Winker rang me up and said, we might not get the first team, we've got Morley.

31:49Lanks have got an issue. But you're playing white ball still. And I went, well, thanks for your time, Winker. And I signed for Nottingham. and bowling on flat pitches at Trent Bridge, that's still the hardest place to boss been in the country, I think. That got me ready. So from 2005 onwards, I reckon I was ready.

32:05Sir Alastair Cook: It's a constant there. Mick Newell's still there, isn't he? Yeah. Mick is brilliant. Yeah. So the first year at Nottingham that I'd never experienced before, at Northampton when I first played, I was an 18, 19-year-old, playing with all my heroes who I'd grown up watching as a kid. Lammy, Capel, Rob Bailey, all these brilliant characters. You played with Larkins, was he around? Ned, no, I've played minor counters. I've played a bit. Great man, Ned. But then I remember before, pre-season ones, you know you used to have the B &H trophy for the first week of the season. Five one-day games in five days.

32:35Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, lovely. And if you qualify, you're already in a quarterfinal. All the fags you can have. Hamlets for gars, hamlets for gals. There used to be, you'd walk in and there'd be like 20 cartons of Ben St. Edgerton in the changing room. Anyway. Putting them in your coffee. But I remember before the season started, we all sat down and I think it was Dave Ripley. Rippers, yes! And he got up to do a talk and he said, you know, if we can win three of these five games, we'll be in with a good shout. And I said, why don't we try and win five of these five games? Well, play Warwickshire twice, they all shit on us.

33:10And, which, you know, Warwickshire were the best team at the time. But I just remember thinking, I've been a bit sort of having my fuse extinguished a little bit by that. And when I went to Nottingham, when they just said, we won and win the championship. no nonsense lit your fire lit your fire and they had Mick Neal had this rule that you know if you did any if you tried anything and walked out and just held your hands up then there was that was it if you walked in and blamed anything like tried to make an excuse no excuses you weren't welcome you weren't welcome and I thought that was amazing how many times did you get caught cover a lot and without an excuse I never made an excuse though it was never anyone else's fault but my own I just held my hands up sorry lads caught cover You mentioned Lammy.

33:55Michael Vaughan: Lammy played in the golf this week. I was playing with him at St Andrews. Par 5 fifth. Goes in the book. What, the golf, Mike? What, the St Andrews? What, Mike? Was it a St Andrews? Where was he doing? We're in a pro event. He's in Dunhill. Yeah. Right, quick story. The pros are putting out on the green. Yeah. And I look behind me. I can see Lammy's got his three-wood ready to go. I'm going, what's he doing? Just think he was having a few practice swings. Anyway, launches this ball. I go, oh, Jesus. Watch it, watch it. lands on the front of the green trickles through the pros as they're putting out right any one of us were like shit shit your drums i'm so sorry so sorry lammy just calls you like walks down the fair he gets to vegas fucking hurry up get off the green get off i love lammy to be a legend he was my absolute hero growing up me too because so i was born in 79 so that like during the 80s early 90s ian botham time and so whenever we played cricket in the back garden me and my big brother he got to pick first who he wanted to be so he was always in both of them and so but the second choice was well i want to be alan lamb then because he played for northampton he's like brilliant small player good on the point i love lamby yeah um he's a bro doing that alic he's a um watch it match referee what in the county game yeah yeah he is yeah yeah yeah that's

35:14Sir Alastair Cook: What's he doing? What'd you do? Well, the thing is, you sit in a room and you... To mark every appeal. Any indiscretions. So, my brother's very different from me. He's a bit of an introvert. I love him to bits. Play against your brother. He's very serious, Alec. Anyway, he was at Trent Bridge. Nice. See, no one heard that. Say that again. No, you'd never have paid him. Could you amplify that bit for him? They're at Trent Bridge. half a mile from my house and this is day three of this game i don't even know he's there he's not even let me know that he's staying half a mile down the road and it was our chief exec phoned me up lisa you know your brother's here don't you no no no jesus so i phoned him up i went what are you doing alec you're half a mile away well i'll get expenses for staying in the hotel so i said look jessica wants to come and see her uncle alec she just was only about three or four at the time so i'm going to bring her down he said well not join the play of the I said it's day three Alec nothing's happening we're coming to see it so we went in and sat in the office and little Jess sat there like shaking legs here hi uncle Alec hello Jessica just wait there and where's anyone doing match referee surely you'd have EastEnders on and a brew like a crossword and a pill like what happened watch the replay a copy of razzle my brother's but studiously watching every single ball like a hawk looking for any...

36:40He's the perfect referee. That's a cartoon book.

36:44Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, a cartoon razzle, yeah. EastEnders, you just mentioned EastEnders. You must have played with Ricky Fowler this week from EastEnders.

36:53Michael Vaughan: What's his real name, Ricky Fowler? Sid Owen? Yeah. I did Strictly with Sid Owen. Oh, did you? Yeah. The best thing about that was that his dog was called Well Out. Oh, you don't, you don't. I did a good... What's the... Is it a tango? Tango, yeah. Argentinian tango. Not the Argentinian. I did a good tango. To Roxanne. Did you? And the police, yeah. Good tango. I did a very good tango. If you want to look on YouTube, go and look at me tango and my waltz. I also had to dress as Spider-Man one week. That's weird, though, strictly, isn't it? You meet some weird people. Because I thought that, you know, sport had some characters and some, like, off-the-wall and depraved human beings in a changing room.

37:33Until I did Strictly. And the entertainment world, my word. That's some weird... I was scared stupid.

37:39Sir Alastair Cook: You should do Strictly. You are joking. Yeah, you'd be good.

37:43Michael Vaughan: Absolutely. I think you'd be good. You'd be good. Absolutely. We've had some old fellas on there who've done very well. Good job, sorry. You'd be good. I don't reckon you'd last the jive, though. There we are. There he is. Oh, it's the old topic. This is good, this. Oh, my God. This is hell of a dance. Is that... Is that Archie? What's it? Oti Mabuse. Oti, that's right. Dancing the Tango, Graham Swan and Oti Mabuse. Look at your old Swede there, look at your old slick Rick. I'm proud of that one.

38:14Sir Alastair Cook: Dave, this could be you. Alistair, you get paid for that. You get quite a bit of cash actually. That's very good.

38:20Michael Vaughan: That's good, isn't it Phil?

38:22Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, I quite like that. Very good. Seven? Seven? Seven! No, he wasn't on it by the time. Lennon finished. I'll tell you what did surprise me actually, because you know it's a tv show so it's you know it's half scripted and everything but craig revel hallwood yeah is one of the nicest human beings even though he plays the pantomime villain yeah when i did when i did the tour after christmas like the stadium tour that was a good piss up oh my god um he like after the first show so like you get your two dances or whatever and and it's all scripted so he's going to be so we're going to you're going to be one from bottom dr Raj is going to be below you, Dr.

39:01Ranch will be below you. And anyway, so my son came to work and he was only young at the time and he got a bit upset because I got absolutely hammered in the comments and everything.

39:10Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, every week, every show. Every show. But I said to Craig, I said, look, when we're in Nottingham in a week's time, can you do me a favor and just like ease up for that one show when my son's there? Because he's getting a bit of grief at school because his dad's on Strictly and stuff like that. And you know what school kid's like. He went, darling, of course, leave it with me. And I completely forgot to like to follow up on it. And so a week later or two weeks later, we're in Nottingham. I'm halfway through my dance and I'm dressed in like spandex and I've got the guy liner on and everything.

39:39And I'm hungover and I feel ridiculous. And halfway through, I suddenly go, oh, shit, I forgot to remind him. And so I keep trying to catch his eye and he's like, right there. Anyway, I finish and you go and stand on your little podium and I'm looking like. And he hasn't made any eye contact. Oh, I've blown this. He's going to nail me again. and he didn't and he just said right normally here i'm supposed to tell you how bad you are and how your hands are like cricket bats yeah but not today he says uh you epitomize everything that's good about strictly you've never danced before but you give it your all and you know you're not afraid to give everything a go and you've been brilliant i'm going to give you a 10.

40:18and the whole crap and then shirley did the same and he told the other judges so they all gave me 40 points and i'm absolutely made up i'm like thank you and afterwards i found my wife i said Everybody will think when he heard that. He said, well, he was running up and down the corridor. He didn't even listen. But the fact that Craig went out of his way to do that, I love him.

40:38Sir Alastair Cook: I'll sell a tape to the toilet roll. I'll sell a tape to some toilet roll to my shoe when I did that for one of the light things at the Oaks. I was there. You were there. I was there again. I've come out then I started in pitch black. Yeah, and then the thing came on and then as the lights come on it was about

41:04Michael Vaughan: Stick to cricket is brought to you by Betfair Swanee do you have any regrets? That's all about the way that you left in this not the way that I left because I couldn't carry on I did my one regret is I went on my last tour because I was was blatantly not fit. So if you had your time again, you'd have said to the selectors of the team, look, I'm not fit enough. The Oval in the last test of that summer, so my elbow, I'd had two operations and the one at the start of that season had seemingly gone all right, but as the season went on, it was cooked. Were you telling me you had your elbow done and then it was put in a machine?

41:43Tell about the machine. Is this true? It is true. I'll get to that in a bit. So I'd had this, and I had to do a lot of weights every day just to keep the muscle intact. And second innings, you went out to bat, and I had to nip off. And bear in mind, I'm anti-training, anti-gym. Like, even for a joke, I'd always be, what do you need to do that for? But I was sneakily training, because I had to. And so I snuck off to the gym at the Oval, and I had this weight. I was just doing tricep. It was probably about 30 kilograms. And I just remember watching Cookie Bat, and I heard this massive bang on the floor, and I think, what's that?

42:19and i'm just doing this and i've dropped the weight and i didn't even realize because i'd lost all feeling in my hand and i was like oh and stupidly rather than go and say i've got this problem i went out secondings and i bowled 17 overs of arm balls um and then thought i've got six weeks before australia it'll be fine it'll be fine and got there i remember bowling at broadie in the nets in tasmania before the first and i couldn't land it i was bowling beamers double bounces to like couldn't feel my hand um what happened to it what was it no i've got so i used to get bone that had grown then shattered and then osteophytes and then they'd all have to be taken out i've got a little jar with about 25 pieces of bone at home yeah nice um but this the last time a couple of bits had gone into the nerve oh right okay and he just said it's a drill that gets a because i can't get them out he says you might get lucky it might not but as that season went on i still haven't got any feeling in these two fingers yeah yeah but the rest of my hand halfway through a spell thing oh christ you can't so i'd start off all right and then by the end i'd know there was a point and i'd start looking for ways to get myself off the attack and that wasn't

43:26Sir Alastair Cook: who i was i wanted to bowl all day i wanted to annoy cookie yeah but um so yeah so i started that series and after the first couple of games after adelaide i thought i'm screwed here and i a lot was going on behind the scenes that, to be fair to Cookie, he didn't tell anyone about because of Kevin. And he just said, look, I need you in the next game. I need my senior players there. And I played at the... When you mentioned Kevin, what was happening there? Well, we didn't even know. That was all the whistling in meetings and trying to... Oh, Peterson. Yeah. I think just going back to actually, I don't remember him bowling badly in the Oval.

44:11I didn't realize his arm. Obviously, we'd been through the... He said... So he had his elbow, and he won't tell it, but we went to America, had it done. He was in a machine for, like, 23 hours a day. 24 hours a day? Yeah, like, you had that 10 minutes off. For two weeks. So for every hour, this machine went...

44:3223 hours a day? 24 hours a day.

44:34Sir Alastair Cook: You should have put a pint in it.

44:44So I brought this machine back from America and I was in the top bedroom of my house because this machine scared my kids. It looked like a robot that was trying to attack Daddy, albeit very slowly. And so I was on these American drugs, the opiates. You know when they say American actors got addicted to painkillers? Yeah, crystal meth. Nonsense. Nonsense. Well, for two weeks I could have written a great concept album. I tell you, I was flying. I was in my spare bedroom. Where? I remember one time I had classical music on. And I was like... I'm really rocking out to Beethoven. I was just flying.

45:28But this machine, so it was really noisy and I'd have to... I'd try and sleep, but I'd set my alarm for every 50 minutes. So you'd be in like this half sleep. What's that?

45:40Sir Alastair Cook: And it hurt as well. And it was like, imagine someone, like, bend your arm, imagine someone sitting on your arm and pushing it together, and it was to, like, get all the fluid out. Oh. For two weeks. And it was horrific. You didn't bowl bad in the Australia English series, did you? No, we played New Zealand at the start of the summer, and it felt amazing. Yeah, I didn't know, like... And the Ashes was... It was just that second into the last test. I didn't really know. Back-to-back Ashes. Yeah. Yeah. And then you can clearly, as a captain going to Australia, you want as many of your experienced players who've been part of a...

46:14By the way, we've just beaten Australia 3-0. Which is kind of another... I've forgotten ashes. I'll tell you what that's about. If you've beaten 3-0, they didn't look like winning a game. It was only the last one, a bit of rain around there, they got a bit close. Maybe Old Trafford won it. The biggest mess that I made was because I've always thought it would be all right on the night. And I've always been willing to always go in like 50 % prepared thinking self-belief And I truly believe self-belief is the strongest thing you can absolutely Collie and our 2010 tour Collie had had the best send-off of any English cricket at Sydney on the last day We needed two wickets to win and Strasser and Collie go and feel down at the third man enjoy the barmy army And they just did sung to Collie for two hours and he'd sat there and he had a brilliant set and i remember thinking i want that that's exactly what i want and i knew this tour was going to be the last time i ever played for england even though i hadn't said that i knew i was at the end and i thought if i could just get to sydney this australian team aren't great i generally thought that we'll beat them they're not great i can just hide i can bowl i can get it on the length i can be the fourth man in the attack jimmy and broadie will bowl around cook you'll get 1500 runs again we'll beat him um and then the first two games i was bowling a sack of Mitchell Johnson was bowling us out for 50, bowling absolute left arm rockets.

47:37Rockets. I still say in Brisbane, I played him better than anybody and I got a pair.

47:44Michael Vaughan: I reckon that's the quickest I've seen in Brisbane that time. It was fast. Showback to him, he was way quicker than anything. I mean, consistently over a period. But also, he was backed up beautifully. There's one spell in Brisbane. Harris is the best bowler I've ever seen. Ryan Harris, what a bowler. He's the best bowler I've ever seen. He can hit you on the head as easy as anything. There was like a second or third night that you had to bat for a period and Johnson just charged. Well, I thought it was... Again, I'm checking. I've been purred. They were 140 for five, Haddon got them out of trouble.

48:15Actually, Mark Nicholas at the end of that day one, I think they got 260. Yeah. And they were 140 for five. After we'd beaten them three and it was three and a half, I think Brody had bounced Clark out and were flying and Haddon played like at that counter. I think Johnson got 50 as well. Yeah, and then I remember the lift on day one at the end of day one he goes I'm glad they got a score because you know made the series competitive. I was like Jesus I'd rather bottom out 160 must be flying anyway that I think we were 20 off the north 30 for no mean carbs fine and then he came around the wicket to left-handers I was just like I think I was like I was like It was a bit odd.

48:51Yeah, it was a bit odd. Yeah, Carbs was awesome. It was a bit odd. And then, like, a bit odd. I was like, ooh, I've played a fair few games. I hadn't seen this. And Clark, too fair. Clark captained him beautifully because rather than, like, when Ponting had, I always say it's Ponting, brilliant. But he, you know, McGrath, Gillespie, three slips a gully, expect you'd be able to hit the top of off-conference. And throw the ball to Warnie. And then throw the ball to Warnie. But obviously, Johnson, if you're asking to bowl three and one, it's lovely to bat him because he might bowl you some good balls.

49:18He did always bowl you good balls. Even in bad spells, he bowled you good balls. But he then came round the wicket. One slip, one gully, third man, finally. Yeah, didn't know where it counts. The first ball to carbs, literally, from that wide, wide angle, whistled past his nose. Obviously, Brisbane hadn't seen that. And I was just like, God, this is... And from that moment on, it was like... When the bowlers go... We'll play carbs, keep going. I think we were 30 for more and not expecting what happened. I'll tell you what, one thing I will say, because no-one will know this, because everyone thinks that Mitchell Johnson's like this caveman and he's a butt of all jokes.

49:52One of the best blokes I've met. But I didn't know him while we were playing against him. But he got so much grief in all the Ashes I played until that one. Oh, why? There was that. He bowls to the left, he bowls to the right. Mitchell Johnson, you're bowling his shite. Yeah, he's fucking quick shite, man. No, no. In 2010, Hibami Ami sang that to him every time he bowled. All the way through his car. And then at Sydney, he walked out to bat. And he got first ball. And they sang it all the way. So even when he got cleaned up first ball, they sang it all the way. I genuinely... Didn't they say his batting was shot on the way back?

50:25It's the first time I've seen someone get out, especially in Australia. I genuinely felt sorry for him. His body language, everything. He walked off. And he gave 100 % all the time. He was like a laughingstock for the Barmy Army. So when he came back, even though it's horrific to be on the other end of, I was like, I've got so much admiration for Mitch. Yeah. And he's rock hard. He's as hard as now.

50:49Sir Alastair Cook: That's an amazing... Was that wicket... Did he bowl your first ball at Adelaide or something? No, that was Harris at Perth. No, no, no. But he had an amazing... No, Adelaide was the... Bowled! Adelaide, he did the one-two to me. Not the quickest wicket, Adelaide. Took him on, caught fine leg. I mean, it's like... I don't mind getting out occasions of Paul. because it means they might keep holding it and also it's the only scoring shot out of it. And then in the second inning, he did me with a full straight one. Absolutely. And it swung out. If he swung it away from left-handed, he was impossible.

51:25And also the stumps were in the ground so hard. Stumps didn't move. It was like, oh, the ball just rolled back. There was an earthquake in Tibet. Stumps didn't move. And then, love him as well, but Gucci, the batting coach, said to me, probably should have got full to that, mate. I was like, fuck it, I got bounced out 95, man. I remember after the second test in Adelaide, we had a team talk about what's going wrong. And I always remember it started with the batsmen, so there's a load of bullshit. Excuse, excuse, excuse, excuse. And it got to me and Brodie. And then Gucci went, we need more from you two, you've got to give us more.

52:04Brodie went, Graham, if we're 300 for six, it's quite easy for me and Graham to get some runs. If we're 50 for six and Mitch has bowled two overs, a bit trickier. I just carried on.

52:15Sir Alastair Cook: Do you remember TMS about three in the morning at Adelaide, so Mitchell Johnson's gone through, and Agus is just coming to an end and he's got Jeffrey next to him and he's shuffling a few papers. No, no, no, he's a joke. So he said, so how... Mitchell Johnson's blown England away. How do you think you would have played him? How would I have played him? I'd have played him if he said he'd be bowling at me for two weeks. Bowling at me for a fortnight.

52:46you know what i said earlier about about self-belief being the strongest tool you can have jeffrey boycott is the absolute epitome of that absolutely absolutely i'll tell you what i liked about jeffrey that when we were doing tms with him he's not controversial unless it's bored and i've seen them days gone by and like nothing can be happening you see him almost starting looking round and he's looking for something and he'll just fixate on something and I said no no no look at him he's a joke

53:16Sir Alastair Cook: can't come as a banana no Spider-Man's a better superhero no no Batman was shy

53:26Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair

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55:37Michael Vaughan: Swanson, can we get on to spin? Yes. Bit of spin. So we mentioned you starting at 20. Yeah. England have picked Shoy Bashir really. Yeah. Now we debate on this show, and you might have a different opinion. I think they're picking him far too young. Yeah. Playing a load of county cricket for a few years will benefit Shoy. A bit more cricket in the winter. if you want to take him to Bangladesh for those two tests, no problem. But take him tour after tour and you're realist to thinking, I just can't see how he plays. Isn't he better just playing loads of cricket and then having a look in two or three years when he's got three or four hundred wickets and you go, now you're ready to play.

56:15A good couple of years, that.

56:16Michael Vaughan: Well, you know what. I'll tell you what, he's picked because of his potential. We know that. And there's this nonsense that I think in the UK that we've got no spin. is the best of a bad bunch sort of thing. It's not, it's just, spinning this country just isn't understood properly by captains, by coaches, by groundsmen. You see a lot of counting championship cricket with a 42-yard boundary on one side, with a green pitch, with a captain, the spinners there to bowl two overs, to get the overrate up before tee time. It's not picked as a match-winning bowler. And so, I mean, it took years for me to be able to...

56:52Yeah, but you've got to make yourself... Yeah, you do, you do. And don't get me wrong, you've got to be able to stay on. so you can't get carted round. And where a lot of young spinners go wrong is they just don't bowl enough. They don't practice enough at hitting the stumps, being able to land it, every ball hit the stumps because then you're easy to captain. Even if you're not turning it, you can set a field. But then if that youngster has always grown up and like being overlooked and it's always about Greenwich, it's always about this and that, he'll never think of himself as a match winner.

57:20So he'll never genuinely, there's two ways to bowl. You stand at the end of your mark and you envisage getting someone out. So beating him through the air, he's going to turn, he's going to dip, he's going to drive, I'm going to bowl him through the gate. That was my, I always used to think of that before I bowled. Or you can think, I hope I don't get hit for four or six. And I think a lot of spinners, because they just don't want to go for boundaries, they just want to stay on. They don't ever think about getting someone out.

57:43Sir Alastair Cook: Because you're looking after the Lions now. Yes. Who's the best spinner in England? I think the best spinner in England is a young lad who can't even get in the first team at Nottingham. He's called Farhan Ahmed, off spinner. I think he's a brilliant. Oh, yeah. That's his brother. And I say why, because he played 19s with Archie, with your lad. Archie's a good bowler as well. He is. What this lad is, he's the only spinner that I've worked with a youngster who genuinely already thinks strategically and thinks about a long spell and how to get people out and work them out. He naturally does. How come he can't get a game?

58:17Because, again... Why didn't he go out on loan if he's that good? I don't know. He got Patterson White. Well, because, like I said, because... Every county, I don't think any county truly understands spin bowling. Maybe Somerset, because they've had leachy for you. And Essex. Well, Essex, that's my whole point. Essex won the championship, not by having military medium paces, but by having harmer. If you've got a match in the spinning, you will win the county championship. Every year, I think. Absolutely.

58:46Sir Alastair Cook: But I don't know. You're right about bowling spells and everything. When I came on to bowl, I intended to stay on to bowl

58:53Michael Vaughan: until they were all out. I think the problem with county cricket, if you look at the last few years, the teams that have won it. So Surrey have won it down at the Oval. Yeah. He's been in part-time. Yeah. You know, you look at Warwickshire this year. All right, they had the young Indian left-arm spin. Who came and got a few. At the end. But he was important. It was like Bamber Barnard. Very good bowler. They had little nibblers that bowled beautifully for them. So they're all working on data these days, aren't they? So when the champ, you know, look at knots towards the back end of the year. Green seamers.

59:21Well, that's it. So if you're winning the first half of the season with seam bowling, which is, you know, it is naturally easier to bowl seam at the start of the year. Yeah. And you know, there's this big thing that, oh, yeah, but spinners aren't there because they have to play at the start and the end of the season and not in the middle when it's hottest. The middle when it's hottest isn't the... September is the best time to bowl spinners. Of course it is. It's worn pitches. By a country mile. Worn pitches. Because it's worn pitches. It's been dry all summer. So if you win the first half of the season mainly with your seamers and then you've got a good spinner, you will win the game.

59:52Do you think, I mean, it has changed a lot since you played. Yeah. Like, you played part of a three-man attack, four-man attack, held an end quite a lot. Yeah. I don't think that would be allowed now because I think players would see that and go, as the modern games, people hit sixes so much easier than they did when we start. So actually, I think it's really tough for spinners and I was going to ask, well, how would you, how would you, because you, like, if you came on bowl now, they would not let you sell. I think you'd just get them out. So, yeah, That argument, I think, is nonsensical. Not just because they're attacking more.

1:00:26The more they attack, the more chances to get out. And you just... If you accept that you're going to go for four and a half and over, but you'll get more wickets, you're still bowling the team out in less than 100 overs every single time. Do you think people's attacking game is way better than it is? I don't think it's way better. I'll tell you what happens.

1:00:42Michael Vaughan: I've seen loads of concrete this year. And when a spinner lands the ball in the right area, often enough, you very rarely see fielders around the back these days, apart from on day four if you're bowling for victory they're batting out for a draw they have you know backward point on the boundary but they end up getting out because your philosophy is that they're so attacking they'll not just say oh I'm in now I'll just knock it around you go back to the ashes that Edgbaston was at 23 when Nathan Lyon got 5 in the second in England just trying to launch that's how they all play these days so you just mentioned that because I've got to get this out because this boils my blood when an off spinner comes on, I have a deep backward point.

1:01:23Oh my God. Wouldn't get on the bowl. So if I'm bowling at any right-hander, if he can reverse sweep, A, I'm thinking I'm going to get him either LBW or caught at the top edge. And if he hits a couple of fours, that's fine because any batsman's allowed to do it. If you've got a deep backward point, he is never getting out. He's got to middle it and absolutely smash it to get caught there. If you're going to have someone deeper, have him 15 yards deeper and start him over. So when you do beat him and gets some dip and he tries it he gets a top edge and then he's out rather than before he's faced the ball well this lad can play a reverse sweep I remember young Thomas Rue at Somerset cracking little player really good and he's got that audacity of youth that he thinks everything is easy because cricket's come so easy to him and he was with the under 19s a couple of years ago in South Africa and he was captain in this little scenario and he put a deep point out and it was into a howling gale and I went mate that is a waste of a fielder bring him in 35 yards and he goes, oh, no, no, it's such an easy shot to play.

1:02:23There are a lot of things that I have to have him out. And that's a very good Thomas Roo impression. And I said, no, no, mate, because you can get him out, you get some dip, that's hitting into a howling. No, no, it's so easy, Swanee. And I remember walking away going, what? Because the modern game thinks that that is the way, and it's been accepted, rather than look at ways to get people out, they're thinking, just save this boundary.

1:02:45Sir Alastair Cook: Do you think there should be a minimum boundary? Yes. In county cricket? I think what would you what would it be at least 60 yards at least No, no I'm gonna say 65. Yeah, but 60 so 60 meters at Trent Bridge they built that stand That is it makes it incredible atmosphere, but you know to the left of the pavilion that the Yeah, yeah, yeah Honestly, if I won the Euro millions, I would give 50 million to not say knock that down and make it bend again I say, because it never used to be a stupidly small boundary.

1:03:21Michael Vaughan: No. And it's just... I don't think there's any excuse. But Bumble, that's what happens down the back end of the championship, because teams want the 450 and the 110, so they bring the boundaries to make sure that they can get the 450.

1:03:33Sir Alastair Cook: But even then... So the boundary is 60 metres. I agree.

1:03:37Michael Vaughan: I totally agree with your point, but it's not there at the minute, so teams... Of course they don't. They'll exploit it. I'll tell you what annoys me as well, Bumble. You know when you go to watch one day games, T20, and everyone says it's not for bold. No, it's not. Because you play at grounds, at Headingley this year in the 100, the actual playing surface, 18 metres was taken away from it. 18 metres of wasted space. I was there. We were there when you were sat on the boundary edge. I was sat on the boundary. I could hear the batsmen talk. We've got a bugbear with you. We're your boys, London spirit.

1:04:11Michael Vaughan: Go on, lads. Yeah. Let us down this year. We were right behind you. We had the shirts.

1:04:18Sir Alastair Cook: How's the coaching going? It's Andy's fault. Are you enjoying the coaching? I love the coaching. I tell you, I mean, I enjoy commentary and I still do quite a bit and it's great, but you're not actually achieving anything. You know what I mean? No matter what you say, you just say it every day and you're there because you're the lovable rock. You're happy days. And people listen to that on TMS. But you're not actually affecting anything. Right. And I felt straight away a massive distance between being a player and being up there. And I felt uncomfortable with it. So you're with the Lions now, aren't you?

1:04:54Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. And so the recent thing is Kevin Peterson to go back as a mentor. Yeah. Does he drift into the Lions or not? Not on easy. I don't know. I wish we had a relationship. I mean, I don't know about you and Kevin Peterson. No, we're not mates, me and Kev. Really? Could you work together? Hang on, hang on. We have worked together. We've played together for years.

1:05:14Michael Vaughan: But could you work together now in the same coaching? Yeah, that won't go up. I mean, we've worked together in the commentary box, so... But could you work together with England as spin-balling... We haven't yet. I'm big on this.

1:05:25Sir Alastair Cook: It's just a game of cricket that you're playing, that we're all playing. You've had a difference as a great spin-baller with a great batter. Yeah. Sort it out. I think we'd be on that, Dave. Sort it out. Come on. That's right, that's right. Telling someone you got a divorce, give her a ring. Tell her she was right all along. LAUGHTER

1:05:48Michael Vaughan: Your analogy is you divorced from Kevin Peterson. We never got wed. Never consummated again. No, we didn't. Well, maybe... Seriously. Did you make it to the church? No, we didn't.

1:05:59Sir Alastair Cook: Do you know... Did you have a stag do? I think that he's so sad. But you don't have to get on with that. I mean, I don't know the circumstances for a stag. I'm not in your dressing room. I'm not in your team. It's just a game of cricket. It is just a game of cricket.

1:06:13Michael Vaughan: Do you think Kev's going to make a good coach or the term mentor? I think a mentor, he'd be pretty good. What's the difference? You're not directing things. You're hovering. Kevin is an unbelievable player. One of the best I've ever seen. I don't think he's the best player we've ever had because I think Rooty is. But Kevin, talent-wise, undeniably incredible.

1:06:38Sir Alastair Cook: That's different to say who's the best player. You've got to break that down. Yeah, but he can. Who's the best opener who's the best middle who's the best wicket keeper who's the best spinner you can't see the best player All right, I'm the Off-drive of mine beautiful. I think it's a fantastic debate. Oh, by the way Can I just say you remind me of your baton one of the funniest things I've ever seen remember this poor Elizabeth on that tour We're on oh, yeah, man When Donald's behind the speed of light and he came up to me. Yeah, you ain't got a spare arm I'm going, yeah, sure. I see you've already got one on now.

1:07:11He goes, I'm putting up here. And before he went out, he goes, I've come up with a game plan. First ball, I go leg side. Second ball, I go offside. If he don't know where I'm going, I'm the same.

1:07:27Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair.

1:07:33Michael Vaughan: Swanson, we've mentioned great players. Is this it? We now get you to pick your best 11 with people that you played with. OK. So North Ants, O 'Garge players, Overseas players. Legends 11. Whoever you've played with, you've got to pick your best 11. This is going to be a pretty good team, then. Well, Sean Udall's was excellent. Yeah. Had Gilfuss in it, Aidan in it. Marshall. Marshall in it. At Crown. Warn. Yeah, he did. To one. I'll tell you, to one. And I'm not just saying that because he's here, but I'm going to have to put Cook down.

1:08:03Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, you made it. OK. Sir Alex, my stroke. We go back to that first ten minutes of the show we just confused us. Yeah, but for the reason, mainly for the reason I said earlier, not great to watch, not pleasing on the eye, but very, very effective. Could always have a snooze. Yeah. You can't mention Strauss. No, no, Strauss is not going to get in and I know, Dor Strauss, brilliant player. Well, he lives in Hong Kong now. Yeah, exactly. But I'm going to put an Australian in there and I'll play with him at Northampton. Matthew Hayden. Matthew Hayden. Well, he gets in Sean Yardas' team as well. And Hayden's in there more for his force of personality.

1:08:40He's not the best Aussie I've played with because Mike Hussey's a better player, I think. I've got Hussey in his way. But Doss, unbelievable.

1:08:47Michael Vaughan: I reckon Hussey's better than Hayden. As a technical batter, yes. But Haydos had this force of nature. Haydos would look for a fight and he was like... He was fighting, size 14 feet, and they'd be... Tiniest head in the world. But number three, I'm going to put Brian Lara. Play with him. I played in a charity match in the West Indies by Lara where unbelievably he got out to Piers Morgan I've seen that on YouTube and if anything made me feel a little bit sick in my mouth I'm going to put Sachin Tendulkar at number four please when did you play against him? play with him? another Legends match so after I finished Sachin Tendulkar and Shane Warne did a Legends tour to America that you were there that me and Vaughan he went on and I've got some unbelievable pictures so we were playing this is a great story about Tendorka actually so we're in Manhattan in this hotel right in the middle of Times Square, do you remember this?

1:09:44and the first day we go to training there's gridlock because 200 ,000 Indians who live in New York have come to see Sachin Dendorka of course and it's absolute bedlam so the next day the NYPD have been sent down and they're doing like a human chain to keep all this crowd back and I'm in the lobby and as Sachin comes out the whole place goes mad and this couple went hey buddy who's this fucking guy and i went i went oh that's that's such in tendulka he's like the michael jordan of cricket he goes oh i thought he'd be taller it was brilliant um so yeah so sachin gets in uh can i yeah yeah you've already put warning yeah warning who's your stumper who's your stumper Stumper, I'm going to go a little bit different from what people expect.

1:10:32I'm going to put Chris Reid in. Oh, Reid dog! Chris Reid at seven. And only genuinely because I saw a lot more of him than most people at Nottingham. I never saw him have a bad day. And part of the reason I signed for Nottingham is because I'd always bowl well when Reid was a keeper. And he used to wear kookaburra gloves with big yellow palms. And I still do this as my coach. My focus was always on the keeper's gloves because that never changes. Mine too Yeah And I just I've closed my eyes And thought I'd love to bowl with Chris Reid Keeping every day He once moved me And himself In the batting order Because he couldn't bat Behind Samit Patel anymore He says he's given me kittens You've got to go ahead of me Anyway So Reid is there See Reid I want to say both of them But I don't think I ever played with them Even in a charity game

1:11:20Michael Vaughan: You're not played with the beef No I've played a lot of golf with him Yeah you can't have beef And I've been fishing with him Yeah that doesn't count Okay, so five and I need you can go 11 if you want Anderson I'm gonna have to put another Australian in at five pontin Oh Same trip

1:11:43How has he got a team I He's about five he doesn't better head a lot. He's the greatest player who's ever played the game Yeah, but he were a three. I don't care. He's about five. It's not about three four I'd love to go. Rick, you're back at five, mate. Something about Ponting, he's short in stature. There shouldn't be anything intimidating about him. And yet, he's got this awe, this presence. And it's incredible. Fantastic. Yeah. I can't tell the story about him. Six? You need an awe? I'm going to put Fred in at six because that force of personality again. I don't think Fred was ever, his batting never materialised how it should have done.

1:12:24He was an incredible player as a youngster coming through. Him and another lad who I can't get in this team because of this batting, he's called David Sales from Northampton. Should have played 100. Should have played 100 in this match. He's an incredible player. But as kids growing up, Sales and Flintoff were so far ahead of everyone else. And brilliant. And, you know, someone's got to lead the party. Warren and Flintoff off the field. Oh, Christ. Right, bowlers.

1:12:49Michael Vaughan: This is getting up there with Udall's team. You got Mourithran on that trip? He was. Mourley was on that trip, but I'm not having Mourley because I've got Warnie in. You don't want two spinners, three seamers? Well, I'm kind of picking myself here. You're not even at it. My team. No, I'm just going to go one spinner because Warnie basically did the job of a dozen spinners anyway. Incredible bowler. I'm going to put Jimmy Anderson. Can I get straight to Jimmy Anderson at 11? and it's simply the greatest bowler we've ever had. Yeah. Do you need... That's fair enough. You could have another bat. You could have another bat with three seasons.

1:13:22Sir Alastair Cook: Did you play with a... Donald? Callis. Donald Callis. Paul Taylor. Was he my ground? But I'm going to put a left armour in. Was he my ground? When did you play with... Same trip. Fucking all the boys were there. Oh, it was unbelievable. We went on it. Paul hasn't made the team. I'll tell you how big this trip was. You didn't make the team, though. I didn't make the team, but I was there. Do you remember this trip? The Hudson River was closed one night just for us to go on a barge to see the Statue of Liberty. They closed the Hudson River. There you go. That's how... That's the force of, like, Warn and Tendulka.

1:14:01What a lot. We went out and we saw fireworks. You can see it from anywhere. Yeah, but you can't see it from... Up close. Up the crotch. Oh, shh. I never tend. So I've got one more. I want to put Kirtley Ambrose in, please.

1:14:13Michael Vaughan: Was he on that trip? Yeah. He played for Northampton. Did you play with him at Northampton? I never played with him. My brother, his first ever county championship game, so I was only about 15, dead excited for my brother. How did you get out of here? He got a few runs and he said, I dropped a catch off Kirtley. Third slip. I reckon that's not there with the best. Kirtley Ambrose, when he was at Northampton, someone asked him what football team did he support when he first got there, he went, crown pins, crown pins. And not everyone's going, what, crown pins? Liverpool. He's talking about Liverpool.

1:14:49Because they had crown pins in the shirt. They didn't have any volume on his TV, so he just saw crown pins. Oh, brilliant. Do we need to take the charity game out of it? Yes. These weren't charity games. These were... Not today, but I'm just... These weren't charity games. Deadly serious. This was World Series of cricket, mate. LAUGHTER

1:15:13Michael Vaughan: I just wanted to be just some quickfire questions and some community questions. Quickfire, favourite wicket from your career? I know. I know. Ricky Ponton. Yeah, favourite batting partner? Jimmy Anderson. Favourite batter to bowl to? Chris Rogers. No, Devin Smith. Oh, Devin Smith. I opened the ball in at Lord's in May because Devin Smith was there. Good news, Graeme, you're taking the new ball. Devin Smith is one of the nicest guys in the world. I don't feel sorry for opposition, I felt sorry for him facing this one. He wasn't a great player, Spinn. Which fielder did you trust the most? Fielder?

1:15:55Michael Vaughan: Yeah. None. Probably Strauss. Strauss, though. Never dropped anything. Trust the least? Cook at short leg. Bless him, couldn't move. It's like this. It's like that. Fucking did years of that for you. No, he did. He dropped 10-dorker in the second innings at the Oval and I would have had him out both innings. Was that a tough one? It was tough, it was about there. There you go. I will say quickly, though. I just don't listen. No, I won't then. Can we have the whole podcast? Every time he says anything about me on this one. Don't get edited, don't worry. Strangest thing you've used to treat your finger?

1:16:36Urine. Really? Yeah. I was told as a youngster to dip your fingers in piss. You've got to be old wise. I'm only a... You do that. Nick Cook told me. The only problem is you're supposed to wash your hands after and I didn't know.

1:16:52Michael Vaughan: Least favourite bowler to face? Shuram Akhtar. Would you rather Sunderland win the Premier League or Australia win the Ashes?

1:17:04Australia win the Ashes because they've done it before favourite innings with the bat 85 at Centurion and I should have had 100 Graham Onions walked out to bat number 11 I'd never seen him bat in any cricket in the nets in the game and he walked out looking like he didn't know how to put his pads on and so I tried to tee off and got caught deep in wicket and then Bunny then went on to block out Stain and Morkle for two test matches I should have had 100 and I threw it away.

1:17:33Michael Vaughan: Worst dressed teammate? Jonathan Trott. By miles. By miles. Hug boots. Come on, Trottie. Here we go. Community questions. This is a good one. Who are your top five all-time Newcastle United players? And this is from Mr. A. Shearer. Shearer, obviously, would be in there. Beardsley is my favourite. Peter Beardsley. Kevin Keegan. I played a game for Northampton at Durham and we fielded first and I was opening the batting so I was there padded up ready to go name on my back and everything. I looked on the field and Peter Beersy was doing throw downs to his young lad and I thought I might never get this chance again so I got a programme and I walked out with a sharpie and said Mr Beersy can I have your autograph please.

1:18:16And so he used to get me tickets at football and I'd get him England tickets after that. So yeah Beersy and then John Beresford, Beers love you and Rob Lee.

1:18:25Michael Vaughan: Oh Rob Lee. Thunder thighs. You go on a golf trip with everybody. Yeah, I love that. When he said, I'll play for Newcastle. I love it. Where will the Geordies finish this season? Seventh. Seventh? Happy with the new manager? Yeah, he's doing all right. I love Daddy Howe. Absolutely love Daddy Howe. Gutted, he's gone. There you go. How was your experience on SAS? The show. Have you done that one time? Any crazy stories? No, I haven't done that one. That's from a Mr S Burgess. Nice. So. Sam Burgess, he kidnapped the car in SAS. He did it on our staff. Now, SAS, I did that. It was after doing Strictly, I said, I don't want to ever do, like, that reality TV again.

1:19:11Apart from if they ever are, I'll do the SAS one, because I wanted to test myself out, and I found out I was doing it, and I was fat as a house. Bit of cramp. Go on, bro. That's exactly... Walking the legs. St Andrew's cramp. They're welcome. Yeah. And I was fat as a house at Christmas, So I downloaded the British military training programme from the internet. And instead it's 12 weeks and it goes up in levels. And I had about 36 weeks before it. So I trained and tried to get as far as I could. And I got really fit and really strong, or so I thought. And then got in there. And after the first day and a half, I've never known any physical training like it.

1:19:50You get to a point that no sportsman, or cricketer especially, you know the toughest things we ever did in pre-season? No way. It's like the warm-up. Yeah, really. It was horrific. Lifting logs. And they scream and they shout. None of that is hidden. And there's no downtime. You have to do the boxing. Yeah. Hodge, you smacked me, I'll tell you. Was it? Brad Hodge. Beat the shit out of me. Yeah, it was great. I'm not a fighter. I never have been. But I just thought, no matter how hard he hits me, I'll keep getting up. And I kept getting up. I was all over the place. I felt sick as a parrot then.

1:20:20But the SAS was hard. Hard, man. Hard. But not fun. No, weird. Weird kind of fun. How long was your last? I got medically withdrawn after six days. After day one or so? Like that, yeah.

1:20:35Michael Vaughan: I think I'm going to get medical is drawn here now. You're all right, mate. Never happens to Gary, never. Cramp in the old right leg. Here we go, we're finished with this one. Should we all stand up? Yeah. We'll stand up just to make it look. Who's the best batting coach in the world? That's from Mr K. Peters. The best batting coach... I don't know. I've never listened to a coach. Mushy was my batting coach. Was he? He was also my bowling coach. Is he still doing some coaching on him? I think so. Oh, I love Mushy with his Adidas beard. I love Mushy. Swanee, brilliant. Thanks a lot. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

1:21:15Thank you.

1:21:25Sir Alastair Cook: Overlap Production.

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1:23:52Michael Vaughan: Thanks for listening and thanks to our partners, Betfair You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode and if you want to support the show please leave us a five-star review and help others find it too See you next time