Best of Batsmen: Lara Masterclass, Flintoff in WWE, Joe Root Brilliance & More! | Stick to Cricket

0:00Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance.

0:38Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com.

1:17That's growtherapy.com. slash start now. Growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. You've got to give us a little bit of a demo about Brian Lara's pattern. Iconic. There was the little jump and then it was the... like that. I nearly joined the WWE. Did you? I didn't want to box. That was never the plan. What were you being called? Big Fred. I did a walk and I phoned you up and I said, have you got any advice for me? And you said, Rocketfield. What's going on? Are you the only captain to have dropped, Joe? Yeah. Glaston Small says he will prepare you shandies to drink in your Gatorade bottle on the field.

2:10Beefy.

2:17BC, I mean, on this show, we've got, obviously... Sir. Sir, who've got over 12 ,000 test runners. You've got a great left-handed representing England. I batted a little bit for England as well. But our batting tutorial is Phil Tufnall. Masterclass. Now, he gets the bat. Go and get the bat, Phil. Go and give us a... Come on, man. Come on, you've got to give us a little bit of a demo about Brian Lara's batting. And then, if it's all right, Brian, once he's given the demo, we'd love you to get a bat in your hand and give us a little bit of a tutorial on what batting is. Come on, Phil, here you go.

2:48Well, I've got a... Yeah, we've got some stumps now. Kat, there's two things, Kat. I used to go like this and I used to go like that behind. There's two things. You've got to get the stance and the back lift. And it's one of his favourite shots with the sweep. Absolutely. Well, I'm going to go for that one. All right, OK. Over to you, Phil. Brian Lara, batting. Brian Lara, OK. Iconic back lift. And there was always a little jump. Jump. Light on his feet. As you say, it was always... Was it something like that? There was the little jump and then it was the... Phil, I noticed the back lift, the toe of the bat's pulling towards the sky.

3:31Got to get it up high. Why did he do that, Phil? I don't know. Right, can you show us? There you go. Let's have Brian. Do it again. Slow motion. Slow motion. Slow motion. Yeah. There. Cocking the wrist. Cock the wrist. Cock the wrist. Ready to fire. Leg up. Little jump like that, but all at the same time. And then... That's lovely, that. Oh, the other half. Brilliant. Brilliant. Brian, can we have you in your stance and can you talk us through... Well, the key to the way that you played and that backlist and your movement. Well, I'll get to the back lift a little later on because I wouldn't do all of that if I was facing spin.

4:12I wouldn't do all of that if I was facing Triscotic. It's too slow, right? So I think this action here had to do a lot with the pace of the bowler. Someone's bowling, you know, when I faced the late Malcolm Marshall or Joel Garner, you know, I wasn't one of those guys very passive in my crease and allow everything to happen. I needed to get the... my movements have to be in sync with what's happening, with the pace of the ball. The guy's coming in, Brett Lee's coming in, I'm patting here, I'm patting here, and I'm like, you know. But the most important thing, that's secondary. My eye, my left toe is on off stump, my left eye is on off stump, so I know where that is, and from there, everything just comes into play.

4:55That's me. That's not about this or getting speed from it. It was just so, my body movement was very important. And then again, I tell you, I'd face pace. My first movement, pace is here, back and across. Or you jump, I can't jump, my knees are bad. So I jump in a position here. But again, spin, it's here. You know, and from here I can get back and cut, I can sweep, I can chip in and drive and stuff. And your bat lift changes to spin. Yeah, it doesn't get anywhere near there. It's like, I'm batting spin, this is me, at 56. And that's the most it's going to get. He's not going to get up yet. You know, like the modern player.

5:33Actually, I might... Come on, come on. No, but I just wonder, you know, like Harry Brook, the modern player now, they stand like that, don't they? The bat is pointing up. You, just watching, I haven't really thought, literally haven't really thought about it, but so Harry Brook and Zach Crawley and quite a few players like that, and it's a deliberate thing. Is that to get more bat speed? But actually, looking at how you triggered, you were naturally in that position. Was that deliberate? Was that a deliberate thing to get the bat facing there? No, that was something as a kid. Yeah, that's something as a kid.

6:03That's facing playing street cricket. And I developed that and no one took it out of me. No one said it. You know, I heard people saying that, you know, is he going to get the bat on in time? My problem with batting sometimes was I took my bat to gully or took my hands to gully, which was a bit of a problem, you know. And then I would, so I do like this. When I start going like this, I have a little bit of a problem. So sometimes when I was practicing. Why is that a problem? Because the bat's coming from gully, and you have a guy who is pitching a ball and leg stump going across you. You've got to get your bat in here whilst the ball is going there.

6:39Or a guy's coming and swinging in. If he's swinging into a pad, it's pretty easy. But that picking up with this bat is a problem. So sometimes I'd practice. I'd go to practice, and I'd be like this. You know, I'd put a stump in the grass, and I'd be just, like, trying to play as much as possible, getting my bat here and getting it this way. Yeah. So you go back in that stance again. So for any young kid that's watching, you're trying to keep your hands close to your body. So if I move it out, it's going to hit the stump. I might do it, I'm going to hit this table. So I used to pick up the bat, practice it, maybe even just left-handed, and try not to hit the stump.

7:18The minute I hit the stump, you know, it means that my hand's going out that way. Wow. Yeah. Just show us that little one I did as well. Show us the little one. Little pull. Hey! That's marvellous. Oh, that's gold. And what about... I want that side-by-side. I don't know how much you saw of Ben Duckett's 149. Oh, he's a player. Playing those reverse suites. Yeah, yeah. Did you ever play a reverse suit? No, I couldn't. I had never tried. If you were starting now, would you bring it into your game? I suppose. I mean, like, I spoke to Michael Hudson a long time ago. I think his son must be a big man now.

7:58He said, I can't get my son to stop playing across the line. Because I have a little boy in Australia, and that's all he wants to do, smack the ball and do all the fancy stuff. So to say that I think I'm, first of all, happy in the period that I played. Played a lot of test matches. Of course, everybody would like to be in the T20 with all the funds that's involved. Like BL, yeah. Not funds, a fund with a D. They would like to be involved. But at the end of the day, I think I had enough shots to survive. I look at guys like Virat Kohli and they don't know much of that. So I feel I would have been one of those players who would have kept, instead of the reverse sweep over third man, hit him over extra cover kind of thing.

8:45Well, one of the best players in the spin ever. I think Duckett, his way of countering Dadej Abol in the rough was the reverse sweep. It's like a forward defensive. You would have definitely used your feet more in terms of going at him or coming back in a way and going through extra cover with a straighter bat. You can play different ways. I remember watching in that one game I was lucky enough to play against, Min Mattel was bowling. Like a decent spinner. He's probably got 700 wickets. I've just never seen someone just manipulate the field. I'd never seen it before. It was just incredible art as a batsman.

9:19I could never manipulate the field. I just used to play the ball and watch it. but watching someone like a genius do it against spin was incredible. Because you played golf, right? Yeah, I started left-handed. It was a funny story. We were, you know, Viv and Greenwich and these guys would beg for me. I was only 19, 20, come play golf. I wanted to go into Bridgestone and check the girls out, do some shopping, you know, that kind of thing. So I never really joined them. It was 94. We were playing against Lewat Island, Trinidad and Tobago. And we could not see the pitch when we arrived the first one.

9:55They just put up some stumps. It was all a green track. Trinidad had a group of young players. They were all scared. Two days later, the game was over. And in Munsterrad, there's one flight a day. So the game started on Friday, finished on Saturday. But we had to leave on Tuesday. It was a four-day game. So Simmons said, let's go play golf. I said, OK, nothing to do. It's 10 ,000 people and nothing to do in Munsterrad. And I played golf left-handed. Crap. Had a birdie on the 18th. Well, first round. First round and then went back playing golf. Par 5, 18th hole, Montserrat. Played golf the next day.

10:32Got to Trinidad. Didn't have left-handed clubs, so I wanted to play golf again. Played right-handed. And then I just kept, yeah, I just kept playing golf right-handed. Obviously, there was that saying when, you know, roughly in 1994 it was. So that's the time when I broke out with the scores against your country. 375 was it? A couple other scores as well and they start talking about golf affected Sobers he played golf and it affected his game because he's left handed and he started to play across the line I don't know anything, I never saw him play so I just stuck to right handed and that was my excuse I said well it wouldn't affect my batting so yeah that's how I played right handed You know the Burnley Lara, Jimmy Anderson we call him the Burnley Lara He bats left handed and he plays golf right handed as well so it must be something in the you know I actually think that my swing you know when I practice swing and if I lose my swing right handed I practice left handed and I can feel it's a more natural way for me to swing the club I just haven't changed do you like your trigger movement your goal kidding actually whip it back

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12:34I nearly joined the WWE. Did you? Yeah, I didn't want to box. That was never the plan. So... What were you called yourself? What were you being called? Big Fred. Here he is, come on, man. Who was that bloke? That went down the line. Who was that bloke? Yeah. Richard Dawson, undefeated. He'd been shot four times, debt collected, been in prison. Tough in Preston. So that got quite far down the line. So what happened was, right, so he got to a point in Dubai where I was unfit, I'd put weight on, I was just not in a good place. And I wanted to get fit again, but I needed, like, a... Motivation. Motivation.

13:15So as a kid, I loved WWE. So I came up with this idea, cos I was doing League of the Roamie Sky, to fight The Undertaker in Manchester. See? Why is it... You know, you're The Undertaker with big heart. Ooh, these fellas walking behind. Yeah. So I wrote this treatment up, as you do in TV, so you write an idea up and you present it. So I wrote it up and presented it to Sky. They loved it, right? So this started gathering momentum. Next minute, it's been passed on to WWE. I'm in contact with WWE. What, Vince McMahon? Yeah. So I'm in with these guys. Oh, good show. I know my wrestling. So I'm in there, I thought, right, I better get fit.

13:57So Dave Roberts Rooster, who was a physio through my career, who lived with us and looked after us, I said, can you send a trainer over to Dubai for six weeks? I need to bulk up. Right. So he sent this fella over, trained me nuts off, got fit, and then the WWE flew me to Tampa. so me and the missus have gone over to Tampa I've got two weeks at Wrestling Academy this is true story never heard of this Bing Daddy right so we go over I say Shirley Crab Tree Shirley Crab Tree so they fly us over from Dubai to Tampa on business class and then we get there Lin Moore picks us up checks us to the hotel next morning missus L come with us alright so we get in the car we go to WWE's Academy It was like two massive units all branded.

14:45I'm sat in the car and these things are walking past me. They're like six foot eight, seven foot monsters that misses. Are you all right with this? I said, yeah, I'll be fine. So I walked in and then the first day, nobody liked me because it's really competitive. There's like 60 of them all want a contract with WWE and this English lads walked in. So I go in and we do the warm ups and then they put me in the rink for three hours to offers. I ran the ropes I went and then I just ran into someone and they'd throw me so then we stopped for lunch after lunch I'm in the middle and now they're running at me and then I started running the rings again I got so tired I had to jump under this lad's legs I'm going I couldn't lift my head I went straight through the apron I smacked my face my nose went legs akimbo and then the second day I went I had lashes all down my back i was just getting beaten up left right and center and the missus are you all right with us yeah so the second day i was sore so i'm thinking something's not right yes i said to this physio i think i'm having a back spasm so they're all going oh the english has got a back spasm so he put me on the couch so he's pushing me i can feel my ribs separating oh i said man i think i broke my ribs he said well you'd be in so much pain i said i want to cry but i can't in there So I went for an x-ray.

16:09This fellow, he puts it up, American, he says, what do you do? I said, I'm a wrestler. He said, how long have you been doing it? I said, two days. So we did all that. Third day, you do acting lessons, but I didn't think I was in on it. So I'm just sat in the studio watching them go through the routine. They've got two minutes. So I'm just sat minding my own business and they go, Fred, you're up. What do you mean? So I got up, I got the microphone in my hand saying hello, because I'm ranting. I said, I don't like that, can I do another? So I just looked out, there was all these weird and wonderful looking people and just tore them all a new one.

16:46They're trying to wire me up after two minutes, and I go, I've not finished, I've not finished. Sat down, nothing. And then we went on holiday to Miami. And two weeks later, we got an email from WWE saying, you can't do your documentary because you'll give the secrets away, but we want to put you on a three-year contract. Oh. So we'll fast track you in 18 months, you'll be at WrestleMania, you'll be at Rumble. I'm thinking... And the money was obscene. Was it? Was it like Bumble's first contract? Oh, yeah. Yeah, not far off, but we wanted to move back from Dubai at the time and the kids wanted to play cricket, didn't want to move to America.

17:23So then I just changed it, actually, to boxing. So I had to fight, I boxed it instead. You could have done it. You got the contract. You're defeated. Undefeated, me and Mayweather. Mayweather. Thought in Manchester? Yeah. About 10 ,000 people. Can you imagine? Against the Undertaker. You'd be glad, though, didn't you? You'd be glad. You'd have had the... What's it, the sleeper or something, innit? I'd have to have a finishing move. You'd have had to get up on the corner post and splash up. Your body fell apart bowling. Imagine jumping off the rings.

18:04Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

18:41You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S. offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

19:26I think I played in your first ever List A game, didn't I? Was that your first? Yeah, that's right. So we played Essex versus Yorkshire. Was it the last game of the season? Last game of the season. Essex had just got promoted. So we had a few the night before. Anyway, Joe Root opened the bank. Who's his kid? I think we put a slapper. Yeah, I mean, you couldn't be more than 17, could you? Were you 17? I think I was 18, yeah. Anyway, he played beautifully but couldn't get the ball off the square. So I actually kept him in nicely. I lost us the game that day. He won us our game. But anyway, you caught me out.

20:00Did you catch it? Yeah, I think so. I don't think so. It carried, yeah. No, he dropped. He dropped it and then claimed it. Oh, did you? No, I caught it and rolled up my arms here. Onto the floor. I couldn't tell if it hit the floor. It was close enough. You did five years later, remember? You've been saving that up, haven't you? Just to wind you up. You've been saving that up. He's been saving that up. You should have hit it on the floor, shouldn't you? That was the biggest hit I got. And another thing I think, were you the only captain to have dropped, Joe? Yeah. I've done some good things in my time.

20:36Dropping England's best ever batsman. Best ever. I'm now going to twist it like Rooty's twisting that cat that I made in the player he was because I dropped him for that one day. You reckon you kind of drove the hunger? Yeah. We left him out of Sydney Who did you play instead of him? It was a good one to miss Gary Balance Oh well, good player Good player, Gary Balance That team Was that the game that Boyd Rankin played? Yeah Did Bothwick play? Yep He's a good player No, he's a very good player Why are you laughing? Well no, I'm just It seems like you might have been Scrabbling about a little bit By that stage The long tour The wheels had well and truly fallen off But yeah, we left Actually, to do fair it was Andy who was Andy's last game in charge Andy Flour and he just like I think let's take him out of the firing line I think both of us knew this was just get through this game we're not going to win it obviously you can't say that to each other or anything we just take him out and then I'm going to say that it fuelled him to realise how important playing for England was in his next game what do you get?

21:39200 so that's what I'm taking I'm taking now I'm twisting it round and taking some credit but I can't take any credit brilliant that cookie good man management Yeah, yeah, he was a good player. Is there anyone I look back at my camera side and I look me National Jarl did a good job for us. I look back and think for we should have brought Graham Swan in earlier Graham took a few years to come into the England side probably when Peter Moore's got the job well 2008 was his team always kind of didn't Darren golf give him a smack in the labs That was in South Africa Santon Sun Hotel South Africa my first tour.

22:12Yeah, it's like 90 1999. Yeah My last one. It was hell of a crack. It was hell of a crack. Hey, you were in the bar. That was a tour where I didn't see you eat anything but nuts. Well, there you go. I had to save me per diem.

22:27Joe, over your career, I mean, you played, you know, the little scoopy roops and, you know, that over the kind of upside as well. You played it first ball of the last Ashes series again. Jesus, and then he fell off my chair. Phil was on commentary. And then he fell off my chair. No, I don't know if you've watched this show, Phil's our expert in the batting department. Can you teach Phil over there how to play? I want to see him play it on his own. Phil, you get the bat. What am I playing? You tell Joe Roo what you... When he bought little balls, he can't use them. We've got apples in pairs. So this is from the Phil Tufnell way of playing the scoop.

23:05I've got a few good players here. Phil, not the Josh Butler ramp over the onside, it's the Joe Roo... What do we call it? Reverse scoop. Scoop. It's the root scoop. The root scoop over the... So you've got a slip cordon. Yeah. Someone's going to ball... Phil, someone's going to ball 88 to 90 miles an hour. Pat Cummins. Pat Cummins. How do you play the root scoop? Well, for a start off, I think it must be premeditated. LAUGHTER Just slightly. Well, there you go. You said you'd premeditated it as you walked out, hadn't you? In the dressing room before. In the dressing room. I sat with Brodie, I sat with Popey.

23:38Me and him were batting at the time. and Brodie was sat there and said, I feel like in the conditions that we had, it was very overcast. It was seeming about the night before we'd gone off for rain, so we finished early, I think, but I must have faced nine balls and not got near one of them. Scott Ballon kept hitting me on the thigh and playing miss. So I was like, I'm going to try and create a little bit of chaos early on and try and wrestle momentum back and forth. Don't let them at any point feel like they can own the top of our stump. I said to Popey and to Brodie I think I'm going to reverse scoop first ball and they started laughing and I was like no I'm actually serious and he was like yeah okay sure if you want to do it do it walked out and then I sort of started backing out of it going if he has a mid wicket I'm not going to do it but if he has if he doesn't have a mid wicket he has an extra slip the likelihood is the line he's going to bowl is going to be four stump bowl and LB aren't really in the game so much, so I've only got to beat the slips and then it's, you know, we're away.

24:42And as he's at the top of his mark, he had a midweek in and he moved him to fourth slip. And I thought my heart started pounding. I was like, I can't back out of this now. So went for it, missed it by a foot, I reckon. But it sort of, in a way, it did its job because the whole crowd went absurd. It was one of the most talked about dot balls ever. Absolutely. As I said, I was first on there. I virtually fell off my chair. I was standing up going, what are you doing? England were 28 for two at the time. It was an hell of a gutsy move. You don't play shots to get out. As you're running, you think, I'm going to get out here.

25:20You think this is going for four or six. Or I'm playing this shot because it's going to help us out. You've got to tell us how to play it. How would you play it? It's 85-90 out there. It's fourth stump. As Joe's just alluded to, I've looked around at the field. And I've decided to try and take him off his mark, you know, take him off his line and length. There you go. And so it's there. And then it's that one, isn't it? Over she goes. That's it. Something like that. I always... You've got to try and clear that front leg. Yes. You know what I mean? Because if you go there, you're struggling. You know what I mean?

25:55You've got to, as you say, trigger, trigger. You've got to get square off, Phil, haven't you? You're in all the fools and horses. And then you've got to get low. And it's a flicker. I think it's more of a frying pan than a scoop, perhaps. Joe, can you actually show us how to play it? I can. Phil, just stand aside and let Joe show us the proper way. All you're trying to do, really, is get underneath the length of the ball. Oh, shit, sorry. Sorry about that. Not one of them government alarms. No, it's not. So all you're doing is you're trying to get down low in a position where you're pretty much chest on with the bowler.

26:28That's how I would play it. And then you're watching the bounce, and you're almost trying to come up with the right, and you're using the pace of the ball. You don't have to hit it, just use the pace. Just get a glide on it. Just get a glide on it. Yeah, yeah. Phil, you weren't far off. I weren't far off there. So it's there, back and across, almost square. Yes. Yeah, low. Yeah. And then... That's it? Just lift it. Don't whack it. No. Just go with it. Time it. Did they say anything after that? Yeah, I think for a ball they were just a little bit shocked, but then, yeah, there's a little bit. But I mean, you don't really get much sledge in anymore anyway.

27:08You can hear it all through the stump mics. I must admit, Dave, this winter in Oz, I'm not saying that the England side are going to play it on an over-by-over-bake, but some of your players will play that stroke. I can't wait to see the Australian crowd reaction because it will go for four on a few occasions and it will get a man down to third. Well, we're working with their people. It will happen. I saw a concert actually to... Bumrah. Bumrah at the MCG last year. Caused chaos. Yeah. Caused absolute chaos with Bumrah by just flicking it. And all of a sudden, they had two fielders, obviously a fine and a third back.

27:42They had four slips to start with. They went to a two and a one within probably two or three overs. Suddenly, there was gaps everywhere. Yeah. Because they had to put a fielder back behind.

27:59Uncovered pitches were brilliant for technique, developing technique, and sometimes it were a lottery. It did absolutely nothing. Other times, there'd be like a boil that it'd come on for an hour, and you've got to make use of that hour, you know, with either your spinner or your quickie, and then it would stop completely. Sometimes you put a roller on it and it's nice. Yeah, but it developed technique. Am I right there? How did it develop technique if it got wet and you're just bowling and just coming through the top? Ask him. I think Dickie Bird made the best comment I heard about that. He said figures where we have bowling and batting in all areas, they should have stopped them when they stopped uncovered pitches and went on to covered pitches.

28:47Totally different. Yeah. You play on flat pitches now all the time. Big bats, it's much easier. Yeah. When you play on uncool pitches, it was spicy, interesting. You weren't sure what you were going to get. I agree. I can't imagine what it was. Swunk, it seemed. Turn, sometimes you've got a good pitch, flat, you can bat, make hundreds. But if it turned, sometimes it turned and didn't jump. So you had to learn to go with the spin, play with it. Now, all they seem to do is sweep and reverse sweep or some funky shot. Instead of going with the spin, you used to use your hands a lot more on your knee to go with the spin.

29:39You didn't learn that. Then the ball swung a lot more in the atmosphere. So you had to learn to watch it, watch it. You're coming in to play it, but you're not playing it. You're waiting late. Hardest thing to do is to see it early, but to wait and play it late. Hardest thing to do. You should know that. You've opened in is enough. When it swings, you can't afford to go too early or else you're on the wrong line, aren't you, by the time it swings. I played on flat wickets, so that's all right. Hey, Phil, Jeff, I don't know if you watch this show, but our resident batting expert, you would think...

30:11Phil, can you just get your bat for me? Get your bat. No, no. We've got one of the greatest technicians that's ever played the game. He's bats. Are they your bats, by the way, Geoffrey? I've seen him bat. Yeah. And quite not for long. Boys, are you all right? Can you just give our resident batting expert a few tips on the basics of how to bat? No, I would waste my talent on him. Now, come on. What is the most important thing for a young player? And he's obviously not young, but he's our resident expert. He's not side-on, for instance. There's one ingredient above all, he's never had it and he can't find it, is courage.

30:51I imagine you've given me some courage, Geoff. You've given him some. You've given him some. What's next? If I bowl it you with an orange, you've still not got courage because you're frightened to death. You're not far wrong there. If I'd have been your captain, I'd have declared before letting you back. He'd have been happy with an orange. Go and bowl the orange. Steady, Jeff. Steady. Steady now. Steady. See how I turned away? Boys, get the bat in your hand. Boys, get the bat in your hand. I'm wasted on you. No, Geoffrey, do us a favour. Get that bat in your hand. You bowling at me would have been interesting.

31:28What was your trigger, Geoff? Did you have a trigger? Get back in your stance. He did. I don't know what his trigger was. Jesus Christ. Go and get in your stance, Geoffrey. Give us the basics of what you require. Yes. The most important of all, when you're batting, that matter your Viv Richards, great player, whoever you are, judgment of length. Yep. If you judge the length well, then you play forward or back to the length and you never get in trouble. You get forward when you should be back and say a bouncy pitch like Perth used to be, you're going to get hit in the throat. You stay back when a ball's a keeper and lower bit, you're going to get done LBW.

32:12Pick the length, then the line. Right. Like off stump and around, I could call that the, you know, the corridor of uncertainty. But length, that's where Viv was brilliant at. Picked length so quick. And it's not just the eyes. Take Bradman. Bradman was a genius, better than any of us by far, just for his record. But when he finished, he had his eyes checked. They were no different from anybody else. I've read a lot about Bradman, and so it was his judgment of length. And the reason he picked length so brilliantly, because when he was young, he was brought up in this house, which is away from anybody else.

33:00He had to make his own entertainment, And he had this little square thing which had a water tank. Everybody's read about it, like four walls, a water tank there. Heat of Australia. And he had this hard rubber ball and he had a cricket stump. Not a bat, four and quarter inches, a cricket stump like that. And he's hitting this ball against the wall, so he's having to move his feet and judge it as it comes off at funny angles. He did that from being a tiny top till he's a teenager. I was in hours and he played a game like if you hit that wall it would two if hit that wallet before and so he gave himself and he was I did the England team the Australian team and he played games I was over hours on his own can imagine that ball coming off think about hard rubber ball like that like a golf ball bounces awkward comes off quick and he's going to move those feet the eyesight have got a judge the length and then he's going to hit it with that hmm that kid, I can soon see how he became a genius.

34:14This section is called Beefy or Bollocks. Right? I'll write in a row, sir. Right, you've had a few mentions on this Stick to Cricket podcast beef, and you're going to tell us whether it's beefy or bollocks, right? Now be carefully and I've got terrible trouble. Right. Alan Lamb told us you once walked out the bat in Perth without no bat. Is that beefy or bollocks? Beefy. Beefy, right. That's true. Steve Bruce. Steve Bruce says that he played against you. Beefy or bollocks? That's kind of thought versus... At football. Oh, at football, yes. Yeah, beefy. Beefy. So that's true. Going well here. Glaston Small says he would prepare you shandies to drink in your Gatorade bottle on the field.

35:02Beefy.

35:05That was in 86, 87. Yeah, I hated that. How many walks have you been on? Raised millions for charity. And you used to have the... Rocket fuel. Orangen... Rocket fuel. Tequila. Yeah. Tequila. Yeah. and it's orangeade yeah yeah i remember the two lovely ladies that just want something into the collectors coming down so look at that new lovely he's having a nice drink there orange good for him didn't realize there was two thirds it was tequila i know but you only only came out literally uh in the last half hour so we've done the 30 miles yeah and we had a lot of people who came and joined us and joins for the walk, creators, footballers, actors, everything, you know, you name it.

35:56And they come out and a little swig and everyone had a swig and the beauty of it was that it seemed to kill all the pain from the neck down. Absolutely. And, well, you know. Yeah. Now, I did a walk and I phoned you up and I said, have you got any advice for me? And you said, rock it for your life. Where did you walk? I did 600 miles. Did you? What, with Beef? No, not with Beef, but I phoned up. Beef had done all his wonderful stuff and then they asked me to do one. I did 600 miles. So where did he go at 600 miles? I went from Brighton. It was for Macmillan Cancer Relief. Brighton, went up there to Manchester and finished up in Trent Bridge.

36:41You'll say, you can't be John O 'Groats the Land Center, although you're 400 short. No, no, well, there you go. No, I did the Empower 600. When was this? I remember, yeah, he rang us. I did, he did. Yeah, I did. How have I missed it? Because you were too busy in the net doing something. You were too busy flicking them off your hip. Here we go, beefy old bollocks. Alan Lamb told us that you gave a mobile phone to give to Tiki Bird so you could call him with the racing calls. Beefy. Right, that's good. Yeah, with the horse one. Oh, there you go. All right, so you had to let him know. It was a big one as well, wasn't it?

37:15It was one of those big old bricks. It was the original bricks. Right, beefy or bollocks. Did Piers Morgan double your salary when he was drunk? Beefy. See, we don't know. No lies here. Are any of the stories that Bumble have told us on here, falling in when fishing, falling out of a golf buggy, true? Beefy. I got in terrible trouble with his daughter. Don't cross her. Don't cross her. There was a rule. Yeah, I've said it. I've held my hands up. I was out of it. What goes on tour? What goes on tour? Well, always. And I wasn't driving it. I was sat there minding my own business and Bozzie was driving it and the next thing I knew the whole lot's on top of me.

38:00Tim Bostock, the CEO of Durham. Yeah. I'll tell you, you made some funny stuff up in Durham. Did Murph Hughes really save you from the Crocs? Yeah. Bollocks. Oh! He's lying! Well, I'll tell you what happened. But it's not... I can't always eat that, exactly. No. No. I actually, it was the last day we'd been up after barramundi, way up in the Northern Territory. And we're on the river, and it's the last day, and he'd been bragging to me about this, a 94-centimetre barramundi caught about 10 years before. He said, you don't get any of those now. They're not that big in the river nowadays. But also in the river, there are a lot of very large lizards.

38:44Right. About six metres, seven metres. Seven metres? Seven metre lizard? Yeah. Seven metres? Crocodile. That's a crocodile. And they're salties as well. And salties. And there was also bull sharks. So we're going there. Last cast, or last half-hour, bang, I get this fish. Big fish. Beautiful fish. 95 centimetres. so Merv is spewing we get on we walk go up last night so the tenders get moved to the back of the boat from the sides and we were there and I wasn't thinking about it came up and said we're going to have a beer we deserve one I said yeah okay you go and get him and as I did I tripped over the rope because it wasn't meant to be there it was meant to be over here and I went straight over the back of the boat luckily the chef was down there just clearing some whatever he was gutting some fish or something which probably wouldn't have helped very much either.

39:46A bit of chum. Yeah. Over I went and I smashed broke the rib down here and luckily the chef was there because I went under and he grabbed me instinct and pulled me by a shirt and then we threw one of the ropes around and boy, yanked me out because I wasn't alone. This thing which is about where that our dear cameraman here is away from me. What's that, about 10 yards, 8 yards? Yeah. Yeah, well, it's about, it just came up to the top. But I had me out of the water by then. So I'm up there and Merv comes from the galley. And he had two beers, one in each hand. I thought, that's a lifesaver. And he went, one, two.

40:32I said, that's nice, Merv. He said, I just got you out. I said, Merv, you never got me out. All right, so you did go in there. Oh, no, I did. I went in. Oh, you went in? I went in. I was under the water. I was lucky because it was 30 foot or something ridiculous tidal difference on this river, so it's quick. Yeah. And if he hadn't got a hold of me, I was gone.

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42:26This new, modern... I mean, I remember Gucci used to have his bat up, didn't he, back in the day, but it's a very modern way, isn't it? Like baseball. It's only Greg because he was so tall. It's like Harry Brookway. Yes, the wrist, that's changed. Snap. Do you see that when you're coaching now? Do you see players going more towards that than the old days of getting tight with your hands? Yeah, well, everyone does. So, Vaughan, I remember my last game of cricket. We played the Champions League game in India and two kids, Phil Hughes and Steve Smith, walk out to bat. It happened to be that Somerset were playing New South Wales in my last game of cricket.

43:00And these guys are holding the ball like baseball. I went, what's going on? Phil Hughes is holding the bat up here and this Steve Smith, and these are the 18-year-old kids from Australia, I'm going, what is going on? And they just belted them. And I then started coaching and I did this study, if you like, The top 20 batters in Australian cricket history up to then, in terms of runs, and in Sheffield Shield cricket, at the time of release, we're talking about Gary Sober's ball, every single one of the top 20 batters had their bat on the ground. At release. At the balls we're about to release, and I've got the thing in it, every single one of them, at the time of release, had their bat on the ground.

43:45And then you think about Gary Sober, you think about Viv Richards, you think about Brian Lara at the time, Sanger Karra, at the last moment, every single had their bat on the ground. So now you see the boys. Looking through it, because he's our batting guru. You wouldn't know who he is. And the thing is, if you look at this, right, so you have your bat there tapping like, no, no, put it down, Kat. That's the old style of doing it, right? And then you just pick up the bat. I always think as your feet, you see the ball, your feet move, and you pick up about every one of them. When am I hitting it?

44:14When it goes? No, you're not hitting it because there's no ball yet. You see it. We're about to release it. As you see it. I'm running. and then I've got to go like that and then hit it. You just watch. You watch. Now, throw the ball. Oh, God. That fucking nip back. That nip back. That was a jaffer. That nip back. That nip back. That's a fucking... What about a mid or six days? And that's why every time he walked in, I had to go, oh, Christ, let's get our whites on right away. I think you're late on it. This will bounce a bit more. Hold on. No, just wait. So I'm not... So usually... How did you do it, Toph?

44:49When the balls whether someone proper do it for God's sake Usually look where you sort of go like that. Yeah, lovely lovely shot. That was nice But you're saying side edge back in the day back in the day you'd go down like that. Look at that. That was better. See, that one should have come through. The other one went there. So you just have it there nice and relaxed. Lara had his bat up in the air, didn't he? No, no, but you watch it. The last minute he tapped, he'd go, and tap, and Ponting's the same. Tap, Sangakara, their last moment. They tap, and then they come up. They don't know. I avoided it.

45:25Yeah? Viv Richards. Viv Richards used to sit with his bat on there. Desmond Haynes a little bit stood up. But Gordon Greenidge, they had the bat on the ground, right? Radman, all of them. And even Darren Lehman, you watch him at the back of the Allem Boarder back in the day. They came up at the last minute. But every single one, I was just about to release the top 20. And then over time, it's changed. So that's what we see now. But what I'd say now is that as long as you lose, as long as you've got – I heard a great thing at the British Open the other day. I tried it at golf yesterday. Anna Sorensen, is that her name?

45:58Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she said, the greatest advice I've ever got in golf was to have soft elbows. And it's the same in batting. So if you're batting, like the reason when you have your bat down and you relax, look how relaxed your arms are. Now, what I see a lot of guys do now, they stand up. If you're squeezing it. JL, JL, we've got the cameras on you. So as long as you're – a lot of guys now, if they're squeezing hard, you can't move. But back then, it was so relaxed. And I don't care. And if you watch Steve Smith or Amler, or even you, Cookie, you'd get that sort of really loose. But as soon as they get tight, it's just like they can't go.

46:36But you were really loose. Just go back to your... That's right. That's right. You have the looser. So much as you used to be. That's right. Looser as well. That's my point. So there, and then just as the bowlers, I would go in there, and then that's just coming up naturally. But now it's all... Everyone's holding it back. See, I've been to Australia now the last eight or nine years and I'm not... Olive Pigs looks like a player that's going to come through. Connolly looks like a player. But I'm thinking back in the 90s. That's how you want to have your arms, mate. You want to have them as loose as possible.

47:11And then you can do all that. That's where the wrists come in, then. And your feet move. You can't snap your wrists when you're like that. So what happened? Let's go back to boxing. If you think about any great athlete, right, And it's the great batters still today. When do you see Usain Bolt run like that? Or a great boxer box like this? It's all loose, like they're loose body. A great golfer. And my very first coach told me, have a loose forearm. So have that nice and soft. And then if you've got a loose forearm, you've got a loose shoulder, you've got a loose face, and then your feet can dance.

47:44If you're holding, I mean, I can't imagine any of us are good dancers. You're probably a good dancer. But you go a few tequilas and you're dancing and we're horrible dad dancers, but we're relaxing. That's right, you can dance. No, you didn't. I checked that one. I don't think you did. I come back bad dancing, you did. I did well. You're nice and relaxed.

48:06How often do you get asked about kicking over the bin? Oh. It's a classic, right? Would you kick it again? In that circumstance, definitely. Did it hurt? Was it one of those? No, no. See, what happened, right? You guys remember it. Yeah, we do. Yeah. So we did the documentary. So all this stuff, people say, oh, JL is serious. Yeah, middle seat serious. You only get little snippets, right? So people see it on the telly. But if you remember, nine down, Jack Leach walks in and you still need 78 to win. Yeah, I'd be pissed off. But I remember saying, boys, don't relax till Stokes is out. Everyone's going, yeah, yeah.

48:52Anyway, we get down, get down. And then Bumble, I know you're 80 and you played with Bradman, but can you just hold this? Just ready? Ready? No, you need two hands. I'll do it one more time to show you this is not a fluke. So simple. Actually, put your hands together. Close your eyes. Put your hands together and open your hands a bit. Ready? Close your eyes. Yeah, right? It's easy. Who's that? Lion. We need three runs to get. They throw it to Lion. You throw it to me, Bumble, and he gives it that. Yeah, throw me your ball. And Nathan Lion, who's got beautiful hands, beautiful field. It's game over.

49:36And we're all up. Bring us the stomps. I'll do it here. Do it. Leave the stomps. Leave the stomps. This way, righto. Get him in front. Nathan Lion here. He's here, he's here, Nathan Lyon, and it comes this slow, and he fucking gets it. What was what? Where's the fucking bin? Give me a bin now.

50:03Of course I'd kick the bin again. But then you know what happened next? Go on. Because I said to the producers, oh, you've got to take that bit out. You've got to take that bit out. because you were allowed to. And I said, yeah, but you see what you did next? I said, well, do you remember what I did next line? Like, I lost the tether. He goes, you picked up all the rubbish. Because I felt so bad straight. I'm picking up all the rubbish still with two runs to get. So would I kick the bin again? I reckon I would, yeah. I reckon most of us would, yeah. But we all would. Kick it harder. Yeah, I'm right.

50:33Kick it up later. Were you there? And then there was the DRS. Oh, my God. Because you'd burnt one the previous one. Oh, what a bad burn. He's about that far outside leg swim. Bad burn, yeah. Right, next question. You met Sir Alex Ferguson for lunch in 2019. What did he teach you about leadership? So we had that, kick the bin, lose the test match. We go to come here to Old Trafford. The day before Old Trafford, Forney, you organised lunch for us. One of the greatest three. And so this is true. No one knows this. We had our last session before the test to try and win back the ashes. I rang the assistants.

51:13I said, I'm not coming. I didn't go to training because I had an extra two hours with Alex Ferguson. Drinking a bit of red. I didn't drink red. I thought I'd better behave, but he was drinking a few reds. So the first thing Alex Ferguson told me, we walked in, within a minute in the foyer of that little Italian restaurant, he said, truth works, son. I said, what? I said, this is my next tattoo. Always tell the truth. Always tell the truth. You never go wrong. So I said, okay, first thing. Second thing he taught me about leadership, which is the most powerful thing I've learned really about leadership, he said, when we used to lose, I used to go in my office and I used to ask myself a simple question, what could I have done differently?

52:00And I thought about it, he said, because you lose and we see it every day of our lives. He should have done that, he should have done that, he should have done that, he should have done that, she should have done that, you forget to ask what you should have done. and as the leader you gotta take responsibility for it so that was an unbelievable bit of advice so um so from that point of view and that was just one of the great afternoons of my life and then we went on and we won the test match you know famous test match and that's why i'm so pumped to be back with the manchester super giants back at old trafford and being in those change rooms so i I went from the worst day of my whole cricket life, Ben Stokes, to two or six of the best days of my cricket life were here at Old Trafford.

52:44So that's why, as it turned out, I'm pumped to be back here. Just as well, the first thing he didn't say to you was, the Carbonara's good.

53:01Chennai Super King's environment's phenomenal. So whereas, say, maybe Westerners will go to the bar or sit in the dressing room and have a beer and talk about the game and learn about the game there. In India it's different because obviously culturally it's a lot different, but Dhoni is just the most amazing guy. His room is available open 24 hours a day. So anyone can go up there, just sit, he's got this big lounge room there, players just sit around, they start talking cricket. and some of them like the shisha, you know, the flavoured tobacco stuff. And that's their way of socialising and talking about the game and things like that.

53:38Credit to Dhoni, you know, he just opens his room up. Anyone can come in and lots of the players go in and just sit there and talk. Do they get a load of food? Yeah, they bring food up. It's fantastic. So it's just done differently all around the world. I mean, MS Dhoni, I played against him actually, I think it was 2007. I remember India were batting out for a draw at Lourdes. Six or seven down. I had to come on. The light was coming. I had to bowl myself. And he just kept launching me into the pavilion. He's trying to block out. He's just launching me into the pavilion. Probably the best. Well, he had the locks.

54:11He had real long locks back in the day. So you kind of realised he was something different. But you've been around him for years. You'd have played with him, Rich and I. And obviously now I'm the coach. What is it that he's got? He's a special guy. He sees the game differently to most, and that's what I love about him. I sort of see the game and I think, oh, yeah, no, this is how it should be played or this is what you should be doing in this situation. He will almost like go a 180-degree view and try and see it differently. But I think his greatest strength, particularly in a place like India, there's so many players, you know, and there's so much pressure and stress.

54:44And you can see these young Indian guys. They want it so bad. They're trying so hard. There's so much pressure on their place in the team. They know there's a billion people watching them, huge crowds. and Dhoni's got this beautiful way of just being able to take the pressure off. And I'll give you an example. So, you know these, before a big game, or any game, you need to see the players that come out and do the huddle. You used to do it with England and it's like the biggest load of rubbish. What did you used to say? I didn't say anything. I used to let other people tell jokes. Yeah, well, that's the thing.

55:10I don't remember anything that used to get said. What is it? Hit the top of off, you know, occasional bouncer, let's be on in the field, all that sort of, it's rubbish, right? Well, we were playing this game, Chennai Super Kings versus the Royal Challengers Bangalore. Like, big rival. It's at our place. The crowd is pumping, you know. And I remember standing in there. I was still playing at this stage. Standing in there and in the huddle. And Donnie, he could see these young Indians. Yeah. Nervous as anything. Massive game. And he goes, boys, it doesn't matter if we win or lose today. Just go and enjoy the game.

55:42Smile to the crowd. Just try and execute your skills. But the most important thing is I want to win the Fair Play Award this year. So if you get a wicket and the umpire gives it not out, don't argue with the umpire. Just get on with the next ball. If you get out and you don't think you're out, I don't want to see any arguing. Just go and relax and that's the way the game goes. And I remember thinking, what the heck are you talking about? If you get Chris Gayle out for a duck, kick the shirt off and swing it around. And I remember thinking, what the heck is this guy talking about? But it wasn't until later that I realised that he was just trying to take the pressure off these young Indian players.

56:17Just go and play. Some days you win, some days you lose. Just try and execute your skills and just do the best you can. And you could almost see the stress coming out of these Indian players, particularly when it was such a big game. So I think that's his greatest strength. He's very calm, isn't he? But you see what you used to see him keep. Even the way he keeps. He's a brilliant keeper. I don't think I've seen a keeper like him before. When he's stumped someone, he catches the ball and he goes forward. Most keepers, obviously, they take the ball and then they go away and then they come back.

56:48He's the quickest. He meets. He's the quickest I've ever seen. Yeah. Unbelievable player. Proper player. And, you know, Donnie, as someone who practices, does he practice hard? I mean... He's keeping. Well, in his game. Well, I've been at Chennai for, well, as a player for about eight years and now a coach for about eight years. I think the only time I've seen him catch a ball was when he wanted to knock in a new pair of gloves. Saying that was about four, like some on the throne. So I've never seen him practice his keeping, ever. But his batting, he bats a long, long, long time. He hits thousands and thousands of balls.

57:27Were you a big practicer? I was, yeah, especially as a youngster. I think that volume's important as a youngster. But then as I got older, then I sort of tapered off a little bit. It's more being mentally fresh. So when Dhoni practices, does he have scenario play or does he just hit balls? Is he saying to you as a coach, look, I'm just going to try and hit sixes now I'm trying to work the gaps on working on something technical does he let you know he just wax ball? No, he He's he pretty much just bats and he just goes through different scenarios in his own head So we did try a couple of things with him because quite often don't he comes out to bat the spinners will come on You know especially early he'll just try and knock around the spinners So we said right okay come on starting in spin just just you know how you're getting off strike and things like that Well spinners would come on and he just smashed him out of the park.

58:13It was like, oh, okay. But he now comes in really late in the innings, so he's pretty much trying to go from ball one, and he just practices that. I think he has fun, just smashing balls out of the park. I remember the early days. It was such a great experience. We had Muralee playing for us and a young Dhoni, and the net sessions that those two used to have against each other, Muralee coming in. You know he's got these big eyes running in you. Ball fizzing down, and Dhoni, bang, hitting him out of the stadium. And Muralee, he's never experienced anything like this before. just standing there watching those two sort of go head to head you'd get him out 20 times as well but he's hit some of the biggest sixes ever

58:53this has been a global and the overlap production thanks for listening and thanks to our partners betfair you can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode and if you want to support the show please leave us a five-star review and help others find it too. See you next time.