Kane Williamson: The Fab Four, World Cup Heartbreak and Life After Cricket! | Stick to Cricket EP 68

0:00Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. The holidays are supposed to be the most wonderful time of the year, but let's be real. Between family gatherings, endless plans, and trying to make everyone happy, they can also be overwhelming. Sometimes the biggest win is setting a boundary. Maybe it's saying no to an event you don't have energy for, or choosing to stay calm during a stressful family conversation. Those little moments can make a big difference. That's what growing feels like, and that's where Grow Therapy comes in.

0:37Therapy isn't just about navigating life's biggest challenges. It's about those small, everyday moments that help you feel more grounded and in control. Grow Therapy makes finding support easier by connecting you with licensed therapists who fit your needs and accept your insurance. Book your first session in minutes and start in as little as two days. Sessions average$21 with insurance. Some pay as little as$0 depending on your insurance plan. Prepare for holiday glimmers instead of holiday stress. Visit growtherapy.com slash ACAST to get started today. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

1:18Hey, we're Nick and Jack hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work, around the work, and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini.

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3:02Morning, morning, morning. Cup of tea. Cup of coffee please H.

3:05Sir Alastair Cook: No, I'm having tea. You have to. You want to try that rhubosh? You're in it. No, it's horrible. Rhubosh. Rhubosh, no. Is that South African? They go, mate. They are at the table. What are they? Ooh. Mushrooms. No way. Magic mushrooms. They're not mushrooms. No, they're not. Have we got a fresh tea? Thanks for coming on. They're not mushrooms. They're not mushrooms. What are they? They're not nice. They're sweet. We've got a fresh tea. Blueberry muffin, isn't it? Yeah, blueberry. Is it? I don't like blueberry. Um... Ssh! Oh, yeah, that'll do, actually. Cup of tea for K &H. Blueberries are good for you.

3:38Some of these? No, no, no. Squashums? Squashums. Be careful once you finish. Squashums are nice. Huh?

3:45Sir Alastair Cook: They're squashums. What are you doing? Yeah, they're squashies, aren't they? They're squashies. They're amazing. Kym, have you been to the MLC? Major League Cricket? No. Enjoyed it. Sam Fran. Most amazing bar in Sam Fran. It's called Original Joe's. What a bar that is. Why? Why is it good, Mike? Great service. Great drinks. Great food. Screens all over the place. And I watched my first ever game of baseball. I watched the Dodgers versus the Yacht. It goes on for a long time. I tell you what, have you been to a baseball game? I have, yeah. Do you find it entertaining? It's worse than a boring day's test.

4:23I had to throw the... It was like during the Caribbean League and they started it in Fort Lauderdale. Which Brazilian league is the one in Las Vegas? Harlins yes, yeah there's someone and then I just lob the first pitch did you add you go really?

4:38Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, and then set and watched for a couple of hours And there was I think it's on record as one of the there were no hits or no on bases or something enough Same with the Dodgers and everyone is the anchors. It was one all yeah, there's a lot of hours a lot of leaves There's a lot of leaves. Great advertisement for cricket. Yeah. Why do they wear mitts? Because the ball's a bit softer than the cricket ball, isn't it? I think it'd be a better game if you just had to catch the ball. Absolutely. Because then there'd be fun when you'd be able to get round. I quite like the mitts, though. It's too easy.

5:14It goes in the air. How easy to believe how routine it was? Like, if you knew you weren't going to get on, it was just a bit of a jog to first base. The guy kind of just nails it. He's out. They can throw, can't they? Their arms are unbelievable. Well, you said... They play a million games a year.

5:31Sir Alastair Cook: Like, you know, Cain said, what a good advertisement for cricket. Yeah, over there. Well, you get a home run in T20 cricket every over. If not two. We're not biased, but... The Oakland Stadium in San Fran, it's bound just from here to the wall away. Is that that much you went to? Yeah, went to the final. Did anybody watch? Who was in the final? It was about 13 ,500 there. Oh! Decent crowd. I tell you what, good teams. Who won it? LA KKR. Jason Alder was captain. Yeah. He had lots of Fletcher playing. Kyron Pollard. Oh, by the way, Narine. Narine. Had it on a string. Sonil Narine. Tricky. On a string.

6:15Yeah. On a string. Was he hoying? Oh, he... Have you... Was he well? He don't speak with it either. Was he hoying? What's his action, Phil?

6:22Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, there's a ball. He don't turn them. The Ryan don't turn them. Just forget what he's doing. He don't spin them. He sort of... LAUGHTER LAUGHTER LAUGHTER LAUGHTER

6:36Sir Alastair Cook: LAUGHTER LAUGHTER It's in his back pocket. He is good. Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. So just hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

6:53It's just trying to stay authentic, you know. Even the good guy tag, I'm just sick of it to be fair. Jesse Ryder's been in hospital out five in the morning, Phil must have said, he was alright when I was with him at five. Basically it swung forever, seamed around and I was sort of wafting at drives and just nicking off basically. I tried to copy, because I was always out in front of him. Any messages that you would exchange? Do you have a WhatsApp group? Yeah, the Fab Four of Avical, isn't it?

7:23Sir Alastair Cook: Fab Four? Nah, you should start one now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Start a podcast. How do you react to sledging? If Dale Stain's running in it, it's not what's coming out of his mouth that you're worried about. Would it have changed your life if you'd won it? I'd have to ask one of the English players. We got more runs than them too and still lost. I've got snakes and spiders and all these things that can kill you so they're just ready.

7:55Cain, you've got a book coming out. What's the title? The Bare Margins. Oh, Ian Smith.

8:05Sir Alastair Cook: Ian Smith, the barest of margins. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take us back. Well, do you want to take us back to that moment? We'll start with that, do we? Should we start with one or two things that didn't quite go your way in the final? It was it that threw that ball in and Stokesy flew through the air. Cup tool. Yeah, that was clever, wasn't it? Yeah, I know. The only guy that would have reached the other end, too, to be fair. Guppy's got a hell of an arm. But, yeah, there were many moments sort of towards that. The back end of that that were hard to kind of regather from. But even that, the rules on that, too, wasn't it?

8:41They came out afterwards, which... Did you know about those rules? No. No. What was the rule? Boundaries. Boundaries. Oh, sorry, not that, but the deflection was given... Oh, right. It was given six instead of five. Should have been five because they hadn't crossed or something. We got more runs than them, too, and still lost. LAUGHTER It wasn't meant to be, was it? Jesus. Yeah. Who knows? You just heard that that didn't circulate in the English cricketing world. No, we didn't. Yeah. Anyway, we'll keep... So that went...

9:08Sir Alastair Cook: Sorry, so that went... I forgot about it. So we actually didn't win the World Cup. No! I don't think we did. So that actually should have been five. Yeah, because when I now remember it hadn't crossed a second time by the time the throw had been Yeah, I don't I don't know that rule either to be fair. So when did that rule? That's the real list When did that land on your doorstep? Next day I think oh yeah Players don't know the rules The rules of the game The officials on the day either. No, the commentators. No, I had it when I were umpiring Batches running on the pitch running on the run off.

9:42Sir Alastair Cook: You got to run off. Well, what happens next? I see you go take your shoes off

9:55Sir Alastair Cook: No idea about the laws of the game the laws of the game state that you take your shoes off

10:05Sir Alastair Cook: Yes So how come the officials once got that done there? The interpretation would be that they have crossed. They crossed. But surely with TV we should have really known that and seen. Someone must have been on the ball. There was also a throw. Boltie on the boundary. Took the catch and stood on the rope. And that was quite ironic because I think it was a couple of games earlier we played the West Indies and Braithwaite got a great hundred. they were chasing, they were about five for 60 or something and he ended up, they were last over chasing 300 and Bolte took the same catch. What was the change in him afterwards?

10:46I know you just lost the final, but as in, when you go through like that, you actually like, probably didn't lose it. Hold on. Yeah, yeah. We spent a lot of time on the field afterwards because there was all the presentations and things. And then we went up to the restroom. It was pretty quiet. and not a lot said to be honest in fact it didn't feel right to really like what do you say you know everyone's kind of have to make well can you make sense of it but but just sit with it themselves and then um and then quite quickly there was a a bit of a do in the in the long room and so yeah that was my my recollection yeah a few beers came in the dressing room and I remember just sitting out in the balcony um just trying to work out what happened like and at the time you know you're directly involved with it all and and you're just sort of focusing on what's next but but then when it sort of sinks in you're kind of trying to make sense of it you know and so yeah so we were just in there it was quiet few beers a bit of a um you know every five minutes like you know what the hell just happened there type thing and then you kind of crack on

11:55Sir Alastair Cook: and you go back to that thought but well i must admit the way you took it was amazing actually the whole team as well, you know, because I would have been spewing. It's part of, like, New Zealand cricket teams over, ever since I've been watching them playing, you've always had this amazing kind of humble, calmness mentality. Is that kind of embedded in you from an early age? Is that that's how you have to be? I don't know. I mean, it probably comes through, or you mentioned it, but some of our other sports teams maybe it's just culturally in the country. But, you know, from that perspective, it wasn't – humility gets thrown around a lot, I reckon, you know, and often it can probably be acted.

12:43But for us, it's just trying to stay authentic, you know. Even the good guy tag, I'm just sick of it, to be fair. It's just – you're just trying to do what you do in a way that makes sense to you. And, you know, the final, that experience, ah, it was tough, you know, and probably afterwards in the months post it where you're actually sort of bumping into people constantly and they'd kind of watched it and just lived through it. And it was all, it was massive, but you have a little less emotion when you're directly involved. But, you know, you sort of stand there and whether there's a bit of injustice or a bit of stuff that doesn't go your way, which happens in every game, and because of the context of a final, it's like, well, at the end of the day, except for perhaps when they got the rules wrong, I mean, they were in place, you know, and the boundary count...

13:39Did you know about the boundary count? No, not until halfway through the Super Over. Well, there shouldn't have been a Super Over. No, no, no. The boundary count, I mean, I didn't know about the boundary count. You was on. You was commentating. Yeah, they whispered it before the Superover started that Singleton would have because of the boundary count. Yeah. It's the first time I'd heard of it. First time you could say who's winning and you get it. Yeah. They are. But it was, I didn't know that until halfway through the Superover and I was going to come in next. And I was sort of looking at the score thinking this could sort of be another one of those ties.

14:11What happens then? and Gary said to me, oh, boundary count, who's got those? They do. So, anyway, so... So that was three balls into the sixth. Yeah, it was... Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and, you know, it's not like that rule was plucked out and halfway through it, we'll bring it in. It was there and if you're going to complain about it, you'd probably do it beforehand, but you'd never imagine it would come into play. In fact, even to change it from wickets to runs, it's like, who's sitting down thinking about that? You know, that's never going to happen. And sure enough, and honestly, when you reflect and like, it was an amazing game.

15:00And even if every team went, yep, we'll try and sort of let this unfold perfectly and it'll be a tie. And you just couldn't do it. You couldn't script it.

15:10Sir Alastair Cook: Would it have changed your life if you'd won it? I'd have to ask one of the English players. No, but a lot of the English guys. Oh, I mean, moments along the way, yeah, I mean, like anybody, right? It's your life and it's what you endure and that was ours. And it was, you know, like you don't finish the pinnacle events. you build up and you're optimistic about how it might go and you try and ready your team probably years out but yeah the journeys we try to maintain a it's a big one you know and so the day after it doesn't end and i know it was tough and it was all that and you have to give it some time but i bet it was we're on we're on again you know and it's another day and it's another step as a team to get better and that's you know that's a part of our journey.

16:06Sir Alastair Cook: You mentioned about their organised and humility do you feel that Australia are the noisy neighbours because they're totally different and the way of life in Australia they you know they're growling at you and sledging and all that and New Zealand are nothing like that. Well I said a little bit. Spencer you are. Yeah No, I mean, they probably don't bother us as much as they bother the English. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, they're sort of the big brother, I suppose, you know, just across the way. And we've had some good battles and we do it a little bit differently. Yeah, totally differently. Totally, yeah.

16:48How can you be so different? I mean, you're so close and you're so far from us. Mm. Yet you are so different. Why is that? Yeah. Ooh. Deep, right? Very deep, very early. I mean, I can just... They've got snakes and spiders and all these things that can kill you, so they're just ready, you know? We don't have any of it. You don't have any of the snakes. You don't get eaten.

17:13Sir Alastair Cook: There's only five million people live in two islands. And three million live in Auckland. Yeah. For the rugby and the cricket. I've said for years and years that pound for pound, New Zealand are the best cricket team in the world. How many teams have there in domestic cricket? Six? Yeah. 16. So you've got, as you say, five million people. Up against in India, what? Billions. Over here, what have we got? 70 million? Yeah. How many's in Australia? 20 million. No. More. Probably more, right? Yeah. Around that number. Around that number. How do New Zealand cricket continue? And with the women's team as well.

17:53How do you continue to produce these teams? You know, your team have come over here and beaten England for the first time for a long time in Test match cricket. Could have been 3-0. It could have been 3-0. You know, you get to World Cup finals, you compete in every T20 World Cup. Sorry, we did it in Covid, but it doesn't count. You don't not compete. You're always competing in every World Cup, every series that you're playing. How do you do it? Yeah, I think the team's come a long way, you know, and it's, there's always been some talent, but possibly a segue into the book, actually, Vornie. Nice.

18:38But we do really value the idea of playing as a team. And in fact, more than that, I think we sort of understand that that's our kind of competitive advantage, I suppose. And I know cricket doesn't necessarily lend itself to, you know, they're individuals, you bat versus ball. But that's sort of what drives you to do more, you know, picking players with a sort of willingness to keep going further. so what motivates them and then how you sort of underpin that as an environment so you're constantly trying to take those steps as a group and I think some of the great examples of players that come in that you go they might be solid and they might be you know they might not be your Joe Roots and you know the world beaters but they come in and add a huge amount of value and they feel like they sort of belong to a team more than representing your country but actually a group of people trying to do something collectively and then sort of a few years pass and you look up and a player that comes to mind is like a Henry Nichols you know and at one point it sort of not that the rankings mean a whole but he was top 10 in the world in test batting sort of in over a couple of years prior to coming back into the side and you you know you sort of wouldn't maybe have picked it off the bat you know but really driven to do more um for the team and and um and it's not just that individual mindset in fact more so it's you know how do you actually allow the players to do that so they're not sort of um because self-preservation is pretty natural you know and you're exposed you're on the big stage but how do you actually bring them in so they can feel just a little bit safe okay we can commit to this the backing of the team it makes sense and where you go not easy and it always moves but it's it's a focus for us yeah I mean you mentioned your book what are the headlines what do you think are going to grab the the headlines from what you've said um yeah oh look it's it's about it's not really about maybe that I think hopefully it interests people that have maybe seen the sort of evolution of the team like and and that's where it came from actually that's where the motivation for it came from was around um as best possible sort of documenting I mean my time in the team and and uh the things that perhaps shaped me along the way, but a lot about the side itself when Brendan and Hess took over, Mike Hessen, and really sort of set a path for the team and then how it sort of continued to grow from there.

21:33And, you know, and hopefully there's something in it for most, but it's not just sort of a headline-grabbing sort of...

21:41Sir Alastair Cook: Did McCollum check over from Fleming? No, so, yeah. Ross, yeah. Dan, then Ross briefly, and then Baz, yeah. Yeah, because you've never, I mean, just the way you're retired, you know, you've never really gone out to set a headline sort of thing, have you, really? Apart from with your bat in your hand, you know what I mean? You didn't mind getting a few headlines like that. Did you always sort of go out and think like that? Well, I never sort of thought about batting for a headline as such. Well, you know, double hundred. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, just sort of jump to the end game. Average 50.

22:23Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. This is the path, yeah. Work towards it. I think most players probably consume that when they're growing up. You know, the stats around the game, hundreds, whatever, 50s. milestones, about five honours boards. You know, and growing up, that's kind of what you know and what you think the game's about. And for me, there were moments and moments early that started to reshape that. And that was largely around, you know, being defined by the game and wanting to find a bit more joy in it, being a young man representing my country at the sport that I love. and I thought, gosh, this is, you know, every day had to be this, even in a net you had to score 100, you know, and there's a lot of sort of stress involved in that.

23:18I mean, I did a thought a lot about it and I go into quite a bit of detail around sort of taking a new direction with that and how I treated the game and challenging sort of the rules of it. You know, who told us that 100 had to be the thing? You know, like someone probably sat down and it's a whole number and it's, you know, versus the idea of contribution and like what is your, what is that? Is it a number or is it your approach and your ability to be consistent with that every day? and you could have some fun, you know. You could sort of... And so, yeah, I do. I go right into a bit of that stuff, which is quite personal and link it with how the team sort of has gone over this time.

24:15Sir Alastair Cook: How do you react to sledging?

24:20I don't... I'm a bit like Alistair here. Are they wasting their breath? I always thought I was more worried about this thing than that, to be honest. And so it never grabbed my attention too much. Dale Stane's running in. It's not what's coming out of his mouth to be worried about. It's the other, you know. Dale Stane, crotch. My off stump's still recovering from Dale Stane. Over your journey of playing international cricket, what stages did you go through what you really learned? and obviously you've been so consistent pretty much throughout your career, but you've got better and better. Yeah, I reckon the ones that you're just totally exposed by, and, I mean, day all comes to mind, a bit of airtime, but that's South African attack for me, you know, 2012, which is also a really good segue into a new small business that I've started, so we'll get on with it.

25:20Yeah, yeah.

25:24Who's the business? Oh, cover. It's currently a groin guard system. It's a new hall. It's a new box, isn't it? Yeah, I've read about it. I didn't know that. Stay on topic. No, no, let's go to the box. Oh, I don't... Well, does it hit it for four? LAUGHTER He needed it. He needed it. OK. Here you go, he needed it, didn't he? Yeah, you needed it. It's Tomo. So he can't split? Unsplittable? Well, I mean, you know, we've tested it very highly.

25:55Sir Alastair Cook: Do they come in different sizes? Yeah, extra large for me, please. Yeah, we can put your orders in afterwards. And that's it, it's unsplittable. Well, it essentially withstands the rigours and demands of the game. Like, so tested to sort of 200Ks, multiple contacts. But that's not the only thing that matters, you know. It's also... It's a big thing. Comfort. It's important. There's multiple failure modes. Building testing rigs and distribution of force, all these things. Making sure that it is in place. If it's not in place... What technique did you have with a box? I had cycling shorts, box pants.

26:40I always had cycling shorts.

26:41Sir Alastair Cook: Not a jockstrap. I didn't like the jockstrap. I liked the brief. I had a great jockstrap. You'd like this one. I had brief with it and you put it in the brief. Yeah, the little pout. Yeah, yeah. But always had cyclical. Those who have a box. Women cricketers. I didn't realise the other... Do women cricketers have a box? Yeah, we just... Do women cricketers have a box? Yeah, it's been cool, mate. Do women cricketers wear a box? Do what? Women cricketers, do they wear a box? I believe they do. Yeah, at this stage we're currently sort of in the men's game but we're looking to spam. You've got pants, boxers.

27:13So it's currently, it's like a basic groin guard system But the the box and the jockstrap. Oh, I won not as we got Yeah, I think the Kiwis use it in the series. Yeah, yeah I've read about it quite a few of them. I think that's my special talk. We had a great moment actually at at the IPL because I'm sure Mitchie Marsh won't mind me saying but he got He did at the World Cup and he had a couple of problems and we've all got the stories They know he talks about it. You know, it's kind of where it came from like let's actually bring something out That you stand behind that actually, you know It's a period to anything that yeah, can you still put your fags out?

28:00I've had some fun. Yeah Years ago And now is it market now? Yeah, yeah, what's it called? It's called cover cover. Yeah The old soap dish. The old soap dish. There's a cool vision. If you had a cover back in the day, your after dinner story's gone. Gone.

28:26Sir Alastair Cook: Made you a fortune, that story. You've made a fortune. Absolutely loaded in York. I'm a modest pension for Christ's sake. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair.

28:45The holidays are supposed to be the most wonderful time of the year. But let's be real. Between family gatherings, endless plans, and trying to make everyone happy, they can also be overwhelming. Sometimes the biggest win is setting a boundary. Maybe it's saying no to an event you don't have energy for, or choosing to stay calm during a stressful family conversation. Those little moments can make a big difference. That's what growing feels like. And that's where Grow Therapy comes in. Therapy isn't just about navigating life's biggest challenges. It's about those small, everyday moments that help you feel more grounded and in control.

29:22Grow Therapy makes finding support easier by connecting you with licensed therapists who fit your needs and accept your insurance. Book your first session in minutes and start in as little as two days. Sessions average$21 with insurance. Some pay as little as$0 depending on your insurance plan. Prepare for holiday glimmers instead of holiday stress. Visit growtherapy.com slash ACAST to get started today. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Hey, we're Nick and Jack hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer.

30:01With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. Do you snore? Did somebody hand you a CPAP and did you quietly stop using it? The mask that never quite seals? The hose tugging at you every time you roll over?

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31:42When was the moment that you either woke up or sat somewhere and thought, I'm finishing, I'm going to retire? Yeah, it was like a real process, believe it or not. And, you know, I recall and once again go into a bit of detail in the book, but it's sort of as your life starts to change and I remember being on a tour, it was about 18 months or so ago where I started to kind of feel this a little bit where for me the international game in particular it's just been a constant pursuit. You know and then young family, captain for eight years these little moments that start coming together and you start going from that, you know, which it has been for probably 15 years, to then this kind of new phase.

32:44That's what it felt like. Sort of stepped away from a central contract, and it was just much more about the balance, family, cricket, and how does it fit. And quite honestly, in its most simplest form, it was like, okay, there's a different balance here. It's shifting. I'm going to give it the opportunity to maybe tilt back the other way. And that was over a real period of time, like in my own mind, talking to people that I trust. And then I was prior to the tournament, I just, sorry, the series here in England, I was in India and I was thinking a bit about it and I just thought there's some pressure around timing and the perfection of timing and other people's ideas of what the end of it needs to look like.

33:35And I kind of just took that away and went, you know what, I'm going to plug back in again. And I've known within myself that I've felt a bit like this for some time and I'll just give it another nudge, but I'm not going to let the reasons for why I love the game, what's driven me the whole time to kind of change just to sort of you know maybe be a name on a sheet and so I went with an open mind to this series here in England. We started in Ireland I thought right plug back in. It was a four-day test and it was you know an idea that you would and I'll go to Lords and see and then when I knew sort of posted although the Lords surface didn't give me a lot of time.

34:26It came and went pretty quickly, but at the same time, it was nothing to do with that. It was just around, no, it feels right. And out of respect, I felt for the team, for how I've wanted to treat the game for so long, for the team to start just moving on without me. There's no time like the present.

34:45Sir Alastair Cook: Did you confide in that 18-month period? Did you confide with your teammates or coaches or not? Some of the ones, because I didn't want it to be any noise or any, you know, and some of the staff. Like we had relatively new coach and Rob Walter and so he was coming in sort of finding his feet, new captain and Tom Latham. And there was a bit of this, so I was mindful of that. And so, yeah, like our team manager at Closeworth, been there most of my career, he was one. and other... Who is that? Mike Sandal, yeah. Right. And some former players that I know well. Did you jump into Mike Esson at all?

35:28Sir Alastair Cook: I actually thought about ringing you at one stage. Did you? Mike Esson? He's still got my name. He never answered. I did text you. I think I text you. You never replied, did I? I did reply. You asked me about the Aussie bowlers at one point. Didn't I ask, didn't I say congrats on your good career? You never replied. So I'm still going through. Do you get a bit... Before I make up a story. Do you get a bit tired of having to sort of go out there and face all the... You know what I mean? New pills, doing a little bit, you know, there's another bounce. You know what I mean? Does it wear you down a bit?

36:05I don't know if it's so much that, as much as you know that you need to be fallen, you know? Like sort of warts, you know what the game's like. It's full of variables, full of everything. I think it's the pursuit, like whether it's your own idea of how you see the game and where it can take you, how do I be the best I can be, all that. How do we get this team to keep moving forward, whether you're in a leadership position or your contribution as a player. And I think that's – and it's an amazing thing to have. You know, when I reflect on it, you know, to have that passion, and like as a youngster and you just, and probably not many really get to have it, you know, and it's driven your life.

36:46Sir Alastair Cook: You're glad you've done it now. Played the game? No, no, retired. Oh, you mean retired? Retired. Yeah, I do. It does feel good. Like you think, you know, you go through these thoughts and like I didn't want any knee-jerk reaction to like, you know, being on another tour for the, you know, 10th time and you've got three kids at home and you're sort of going, gosh, it's different. You've got a new 23-year-old in the team and they're playing hallway cricket and you're like... It keeps you younger. Well, in some ways, the old old dog sort of puppy thing. I don't know if it does apply. You think, gosh, those...

37:21I didn't text him, by the way. I have now, just saying crap. You just texted him. Better late than never. When you made your debut in 210 and then you got 100, who were your senior pros in that team that you looked up to? I mean Baz was there, Dan Vittori was there. Clement. No, not Clem. He finished you off at 8, did he? Yeah, so I missed him by a couple of years. Like Ross was there. Where is Ross Taylor now? What's he doing? I think he is doing a bit of coaching in the MLC. A little bit of coaching, a little bit of... Yeah. Yeah, so they were the sort of, they were the guys there who asked, oh Chris Marden was there.

38:10Oh yeah, he got me out. Yeah, got me out. He should never get left under, are we dead? Yeah, what from Over the Wicked? Yeah, both. That's the new thing now, come round and leave it away. But yeah, so they were some of the senior heads when I started.

38:29Sir Alastair Cook: Everyone's always said that they usually tell me that I've got a bat, which always embarrasses me. Everyone's always talking about you, about playing it under your eyes, aren't you? Can you show me what playing under your eyes is? I don't know how much you've watched this show. Phil is our batting... Demonstrate what you mean. This is a demonstration. What do you mean, playing under your eyes? He's also demonstrating under your eyes. Ask him, he's here. I've got something you're right. Always commentating, I go, oh, here comes Cade Williams. Oh, yeah, he's absolutely excellent at playing it under his eyes.

39:02Sir Alastair Cook: Never really quite understood. Never really understood. You've heard him. Someone else say it. What is it, mate? What is it? Come on, you show us. You show us. You show us. You show us what you think. Well, what I think it is, and it's always that one. I'm surprised that it's sort of playing it so late there, but it's almost like playing... It sometimes rolls on at the stump. I did have that a few times, yeah. Is it the hands? Is it like it actually it started when I was gonna ask you how to develop because I can't remember when you first started Yeah, what as late as you know Yeah, no, no, I was like I was a big sort of wafty back foot puncher and like just had to pull everything and then all of a sudden you've met with You know the challenge of International quicks and all that and um root does it your own that position for a sec because just bear with us.

39:51Get the bat, Phil. Get your bat. No, no. And, you know, actually first coming over to play county cricket, Ian, you were playing. And I was playing for Gloucestershire and it was when they had the Tiflex ball. Yeah, impossible. Oh, and I'd just come from the ODI World Cup in India, India-Bangladesh striker, and just loose as anything. and then my first experience with it in English conditions and with a Tiflex as a young overseas player for Gloucester and actually Essex were in the two as well in Surrey. It was impossible. Impossible. I just have to say a Tiflex ball, we opened the bowling with Dave Masters and Jesse Ryder.

40:36That was our attack. Because this ball stayed rock hard, swung for 80 and the scene. Nipped for 70. Oh my. And it was about this big. The scene was massive. I think it was because Gatt, didn't Mike Gatt and sign the deal with him? It was a little bit of a wager. This ball was like, you could not play in it. And I remember going back from playing from international cricket and from counter cricket and I know now you've got to be able to develop. Honestly, it was an absolute joke for that year.

41:07Sir Alastair Cook: You mentioned Jesse Ryder. Did you play with Jesse Ryder? I did, he was in my first... He got 100 my first game. He was dangerous playing. He was thirsty. Danger. Yeah, you remember that tour in New Zealand where he played in the one days Yeah, and then he went out and he cut his wrist and mmm Yeah, we then we're on that tour on the tour bus and we're with we're going to like a gym session the next day and We were there now from the radio And go Jesse ride has been in hospital out by morning Phil muster. He was right when I was with him I remember five. LAUGHTER Oh, Colonel. In front of everybody.

41:45He was like, oh, God. Colonel Mustard, I remember. You remember Giles Clark, the old ECB chair? Yeah. We won in... You were there. We won in Napier. We won a series back in... It was that... 2008? 2008. And we were staying in those apartments and there was, like, a balcony and I think there was some beers put on... We'd been in the dressing room. What a night that was, by the way, in the Thirsty Whale. That's right, yeah. Yeah, anyway, I was... Thirsty Whale. The Barmy A. The Barmy, Barmy, Barmy singing. I'm sat there with Colonel on a stool and he's been on it all day, absolutely smashed, and the chairman of the ECB walks in with his wife and he's got this stripy blazer.

42:18Now Colonel's got no clue that he's the chairman of the ECB. Charles Clark, well, don't skip out, well, don't skip out. Colonel gets his blade and goes, what the fucking life have you come out?

42:30Sir Alastair Cook: He now went on a tour again. He was... They've had some wild boys. Oh, yeah. They really have. Going back to the 90s, we've come out of Zimbabwe, complete disarray. Oh. We're straight to New Zealand. They murdered them, Tom. I was there. So we were straight to New Zealand. And they were worse than us. It was shocking. I was on the back of Wayne Morton's... Physio? No. Yeah, Wayne Morton was lying on the floor and I was on the back of him. surfing on him 7 o 'clock in the morning and everyone's going to work and they'll go right first like that I'm surfing I'm way more as back in that pub an opening bowler called Heath Davis yeah it was lunatic thought of the odd flat one yeah he talked to himself down at the tournament Anyway, back to playing.

43:23Sir Alastair Cook: Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah. Adam Perori behind the stumps. Yeah, yeah. Doolie would be around there, wouldn't he? Cairns, Cairns, Cairns. And then to bring a manager in to control them all. They brought a manager in. I can't remember his name. John, he was an old man. I think I was born, but yeah. No, he was born. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were there. You told me to surf on his back. You said, I don't know. I was definitely there at seven in the morning because we'd flown 36 hours absolutely we're completely out What time scale where are we? There's a bar on there straight into this bar. He said people are going to work Down the hill into what was it Auckland in Auckland?

44:08Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah down the hill. Yeah Anyway playing behind the eyes life before teflakes teflakes has caused all the issues yeah that was because you sort of had to find a way just show us a little bit mate we get everyone having a go I was locked in for the season and I was about two weeks in thinking this is going to be the hardest thing in my life anyway so yeah basically it swung forever seemed around and I was sort of wafting at drives and just nicking off basically and so just trying to come up with ways to to not get out and um score somewhere and i sort of thought i can't score off my legs because any sign of the bat coming out at front you'd you'd try and hit it through square leg and you'd nick off to slip like it was pretty severe stuff honestly so i i sort of ended up like just thinking i had to hit the ball like that basically and then if it sort of if it's swung then I might be able to just hit it on its head like and so that's where it kind of the idea of hitting the top half of the ball which I think since Baz has kind of said we only try and hit the whole thing but you are but it's like how you shape you know so I'm wanting to make sure that my shape is basically here so if the ball in its simplest form like I was at an absolute sort of loss of what to do overseas player having absolutely no idea and not the only one but no one could score a run so if the ball was kind of going to move laterally then am I best to kind of present the blade like that or just try and hit it somewhere like this and so that was kind of where it came from so and then yeah and and let the ball basically come and because I was in this position and effect tough as to say I was hitting under my eyes but it was never the thought it was just how do I try and come up with a way to make contact that was going to be less fatal.

46:08If I was to nick it, it might go down. It was really from a place of desperation rather than solving any worldly problems. But it was like, if I nick it, it'll go down, hopefully. And it might just give me some chance to make contact that would give me a go. And it was like, you just kind of go through that and then you go into other surfaces. I tried to copy because I was always out in front of them. When I got in trouble, like straight front leg, hands out. And I was like, right, how can I? But all I could do was then block it. So I couldn't swap between the two. Like, I could, like, right, I'll play it late.

46:42And all I could think about was under my eyes and then block it. So then I stopped scoring runs as well. So I had to kind of, I tried it, but I couldn't then have the ability to climb into a drive. Like, you could cut one. I could only focus on one thing. I always felt like the misconceptions, like, the idea of playing late and then you're going to be really passive in your position. Like, you leave your hands behind or you sort of just think, I'm not going to move whereas it wasn't that it was much more about I want to keep the same sort of intensity in my movement so I'm ready to score but as long as I'm kind of in this position and I'm trying to with the idea of hitting that part of the ball the whole ball but address it you know it's an interesting way I need to go on the bowl machine now to practice just to see like because I got passive straight away that's how I did because I didn't understand so you can hit the ball hard but you're going to like because of your position and you're just going to meet it in a slightly different place because, you know, you want to be ready, right?

47:38Like if someone's coming in and you're sort of never just sitting there all... Who was your coach at that time at Glossary? John Bracewell? John Bracewell. Was that you coaching yourself? So you created that yourself? He was a tough guy, John Bracewell. Yeah, it was just getting exposed. And you just think... What am I going to do? No, I mean, if I keep doing this...

47:56Sir Alastair Cook: He did well, John Bracewell. He did really well. Was Jack Russell behind the stones? No, Jack Russell was back in your day when you were coach. Yeah, but he played a long time, didn't he? I reckon 2002 was his last year, I reckon. Yeah, so 2011 was... Yeah, you're ten years out of date. The last year of the Tiflex. Time marches on, did you? Rugby and Ramps were in Div 2, wanting to play for England again or something, and they're just going, how are we going to... You couldn't, it was a joke. Yeah. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by BatFair. How have you dealt with the tag of the fab four? So yourself, Joe, Virat, Steve, Smith.

48:39Has that just been noise? We've all spoken about it.

48:45I'll get to that one. Yeah, I mean, do you know, like I never thought anything about it. Like, as in you'd hear it often because it would get sort of put in front of you. but like in some ways like now finishing it's it is quite unique not not numbers in there but to have quite parallel careers and and actually get to know the you know the the other fellas and everybody does it differently representing their different sort of respective countries but um so there yeah I sort of look back on it not not the tag and pride or anything but just um There was a moment in time where we competed against each other for so long, played with Rudy at Yorkshire.

49:35Virat and I from under-19s and Smudger. It's just kind of quite unique, I think. It's a bit like the tennis, isn't it? With Federer, Nadal, Djokovic.

49:46Sir Alastair Cook: So you all get on, all four of you, you know each other? Yeah, I mean, largely. They're all quite different. I spent quite a bit of time with Virat and Rooty, a little bit with Smudge over the years, but, yeah, more so some than others. They're all different characters, but I just, I mean, I loved watching them and how they went about it, admired the way that they did it. You know, and I would personally just always come back to, like, your job in the team. Yeah, I honestly, it's probably... Hi, Keane. Yeah, let's get back to talking about... and but yeah like you know and do you ever like pick the brains of the other three of you know facing attacks that you're going to face and any messages that you would exchange just so yeah what's that group yeah the fab four that would call it fab four you should start one now yeah yeah yeah yeah start a podcast um all right gee i'd do pretty well wouldn't it virate yourself Don't do that.

50:51No, not really. Not a lot about batting and cricket. No, just more the interest in navigating it almost. How did you go about it?

51:08Sir Alastair Cook: Do you want to say something? Sorry, mate. When your team got one of the other boys out, Did you just give it a little mini fist pump up? Not a mini one. It's quite nice, isn't it? Because they're unbelievable players. And if you get them out, it's quite helpful. For the team. Number two, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Moved up the pecking order. No, like, yeah, I mean, when you're competing, it's all on, isn't it? But, yeah. But, no, it is interesting. Like, even captaincy, I think we were all captain at one point at the same time. Oh, I thought you said tough as captaincy. No, no, no. Did you enjoy Capture Sea?

51:46Kids, mate. Yeah, it's just funny, isn't it? How your life's just kind of... Did you enjoy Capture Sea? I always found that an interesting question to answer. Did you?

51:55Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. Hard. Morning? Yeah, I love Capture Sea. I wasn't very good at it, but I was... But I... Do you know what? I saw it as like... Yeah, I did. Something I... Yeah, I was careful of the aspiration of it, I thought, because you see that a bit and I often think it's the one that understands what the job is and the challenges that it'll face. And I look back on it really fondly, like what you learn and the lessons it taught you and about groups of people and maybe how you grew during that time. But I wouldn't say it was like a day-to-day, this is amazing because you just deal with stuff. You know, you're constantly on around, and it's very, very busy, whether you are at home or on tour, you're either picking teams or where are we at as a group and are we on track and all of the above.

52:56So, you know, there's a player that, I remember getting calls of players that weren't even close to the team in a time where it was, there was some franchise opportunities and they were on a domestic contract at home and you're at Sunday afternoon and do we let this, and I'm like, yeah. And so after time, I think there's an expiry date. But I really, I suppose, enjoyed the idea of being a part of something that you could see grow. And that's, I think now when I look back, that's the part that I loved most. But, yeah, it's not like do you enjoy it and you get out of bed and it's just, it's like, no, actually half of it's like there's a bit of that.

53:37and you're like, okay, is the team, is this going on? Right, your job's to be there. And then, yeah. Did it make your bat better?

53:49I don't know, do you know stats or anything?

53:51Sir Alastair Cook: No. Did you feel under more pressure when you were captain batting? I think it can bring a bit more noise, but a bit more responsibility. And sometimes that's good. Sometimes you need to remind yourself that actually you separate it and just be a batter and play so you're not getting too tight with your game because it seemed to matter more and you have so many more conversations about the idea of results and constant isn't it like you win you lose you review like every conversation with the staff and it's all geared towards that whereas as a player you kind of you kind of come in you can detach and and then you know you go and have a round of golf and whatever and you can sort of not bear the weight of it as much so so there's a bit of that and I remember those sort of challenges from time to time around like hang on like being able to park it like you know what's your your process you routine all that to try and just sort of separate the noise and play and how okay because you'll be alone with the best of being able to separate noise and just be able to focus on that ball how have you been able to do that um yeah i mean look i my journey has largely been like you know navigating that i think um not just in a cricketing sense but approach to the game um and i know like it's now public it was never meant to be because it's just my own personal view but around like my relationship with it with runs with with all this the stuff the noise around the professional game which is which is which is great but like it's not something I wanted to get caught in too much it's like I want to keep my reasons for doing what I do the ones that matter to me that allow me to joy that also allow me to when the time comes and you finish um and and I'm newly in the space but like to kind of be okay with that too like because I know that's a real challenge for for athletes so then how I wanted to play the game was was was like that you know was about was about turning up contribution reminding that you know the the runs aren't mine or you know it was never meant for public ears it was just something that was that mattered to me so you could there was an outsource of it too because you could you get so caught up in it sometimes and it's like oh there's an average there's a hundred there's this there's the fab there's the blah blah blah oh yeah it's like you know and you could just be in that so so then like wanting to to to be out there in the moment and and sort of deliver on your processes like constantly and be fully committed was something that I really like valued whether it meant runs that then were spoken about or not it was like I would often reflect on things whether I just made did I make good decisions that I go out was I totally committed in that space that I know allows me to blah blah blah and so that was what I really valued you know and that's what I love about kind of the art and being in sport you know is how it how it can bring that to you so so the idea of dealing with the noise it was about dealing with it wasn't like I just never existed in my life it was but it was like ah let's let's let's fight that good fight um because it mattered you know to me and and yeah so so that's that's a real calmness isn't it you know and a clear clarity were you nervous did you get nervous waiting to back um like even like that like i would like because that was the but i would be like why like because it was for me it's not so much about being like present in the moment it's like well the eagerness and waiting to bat you know I would focus on just sitting there so not there like I would because it was sometimes a thing hey some days you're more anxious than others or there's more nerves um and and and sometimes it wasn't directly connected to where the game was at or the context of the match um and you were just calmer one day and and not the next so there were just things I would I would try and do so you went sort of eagerly sort of how's that you know like actually I'll sit and then just focus on just that you know like and then and then just get up and walk out when the time is but but it varied you know but it was like a you know what I mean like it's not this isn't this is not perfect and some days you're more you just you are you just go like this a bit um but that was kind of the idea because that was the sort of focus that I knew was important when I was to be batting.

58:39Do you get nervous before you play? Yeah, every time. Do you? Yeah, even though I play for the farm. Still nervous. Yeah, probably more so. Well, just because you want to, yeah. I mean, nervous to do well. I wasn't always nervous. But I was, yeah. The answer is yes, like, you do get nervous. Yeah. But it's like, well, then, like, what do you do to, you know, rather than, so, yeah, yeah, you do. and it just varies. Yeah, my battle is accepting it rather than fighting it. I used to fight the nerves and then anxiety and then you accept it and then... Telling yourself not to be. No, I was like, no, right, yeah, saying, why am I nervous and then getting angry and then trying to fight and not be, yeah, and actually accept, I am nervous, now what I'm going to do about it?

59:20Yeah. That was my way of, and that certainly helped me. They say, don't they, nerves? It's the same. Because that was like, oh, I'm feeling, like, be aware of it, like, and then, okay, what can I do now? or use it or whatever it is that you want to make sense of it and then just to go okay well well what do I need to do now like to okay like my attention clearly like if I'm just really really over like whatever a bit anxious but like my attention is probably not quite like it needs to be like and so then how do I bring that in a bit you know so waiting to bat waiting to bat or like I'm out there and it's really tough like distracted distracted like and that's you know I would talk about batting it's in particular like Red Bull but most someone asked me what batting was in Red Bull it'd be dealing with distraction you know that's that's kind of how I would describe it.

1:00:07What about White Bull? A little bit of that so like Red Bull I would say like the internal and then White Bull's a little bit more external as well because you've just got constant situation to navigate but a bit of that as well you know because those feelings can be and whatever it is that you do but yeah it's like asking someone like nowadays whether you can sit in a room for 20 minutes and be okay with it like how do you prepare for a test match because like some of the young players it's quick it's fast it's just go harder but it's quick scrolls it's you know like and that's what I think is that something that can be done you know.

1:00:42Your life after? I don't really know. I honestly don't. I love the game, did a role in the IPL, a role in the 100 and sort of a skills specific capacity back at school. Yeah and it's nice to be helping young players or be in a role or position to do that but I don't really know just yet. like I'm... I mean, whether I will when this is released. But maybe, you know. This is coming out after the test coach of England's been announced. You can guarantee that you're not that person. Yes. You can prove this, don't you? Yeah, no phone calls, no offers, no approaches from mine. Just quickly, IPL. IPL is just a juggernaut that seems to get bigger and bigger.

1:01:40Yeah, incredible. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much what it is when you've got 1.5 billion behind it that are totally passionate about it. I think it's going to get longer. In time, do you think it'll... Yeah, well, he lambasts it every week. He can't stand it. No, I mean, it's to work with, isn't it? I mean, yeah, like it's still... It's been almost like this for some time, the cricketing landscape. It's hard to know where it lands and whether everyone gets fair pieces of the pie.

1:02:16Sir Alastair Cook: Do you just worry about Test match cricket? Well, yeah, I think from a global view. I know that the big three have probably got a little more resistance to it and can support it a little bit more. I think it's not just worrying about it from now on. I think it's been a worry for a long time, you know, because, like, you look at the pathway for young players now and there's some amazing opportunities out there, but when, you know, we were all growing up, it was just, it was one and one thing only to, you know, that was the star. Yeah, and then into a little bit around it. So how it coexists is still the challenge and how it feeds into pathways for aspiring young cricketers.

1:03:07And I know for smaller countries, that's a real... Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the Headline Hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini.

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1:05:58Real challenge, you know. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Right, Cain, we have a couple of things to do. We want you to pick your greatest 11 that you've played with So those that you've played with overseas names the team is this is this a red ball? No, it doesn't matter. It's just his best team. So it can be those that played test cricket with New Zealand Yorkshire Gloucester IPL side You've got to pick what sort of test team or Wow.

1:06:36Sir Alastair Cook: Great player. This has got to be a Red Bull team, surely. Test match cricket. Test match cricket, come on. Red Bull team. Test match cricket. Ah, Red Bull team. I'm just going to start naming names, because they'll all be on there and then I'll get into roles that I've missed, OK? Like it. Callis. Oh, what is it? I've played against them. What numbers are they? With. Just with. Have you played with Callis? Oh, sorry, played with. Play with. OK, well, Steyn. Number 10. Have you played with Steyn? Yeah, I understood that. LAUGHTER Um, Steyn. Yes. Murrilee. Oh, hello. There we go. Number 11. Number 11 was it.

1:07:21When was that? Who was that for? Weaver. Gloucester, actually. Oh! I had a Murriest. Yeah, I kept in him. I was 20. And he was probably knocking on the door. With a tiff next, though. It was white ball. But I saw it, Morley's great.

1:07:35Sir Alastair Cook: Morley's in there, jeez. I know, Root, you'd play. Rooty, Rooty, Rooty. Can he bat a three, Rooty? Can he? No, he won't bat three. But Kane might make him bat three. Just put Root. I'm going to put Warner in there. V Warner, right at the top. Yeah, yeah. This is a good team. We've had some crackers, but this might be up there. I'm just going to have to think about IPL for a minute. Who's your keeper? Do you play with Gilly? No. I mean, Baz will be close. You didn't play with him, Smith, did you? Baz would be in there for Stumper. God, blimey. Not a bad seven. Put him on the side. Baz, just in case.

1:08:23I think he will be. I'm going abroad first, then I'll come in. Who's Yorkshire's keeper?

1:08:38Oh

1:08:40Sir Alastair Cook: Come on, we've got a little left fielder here Herschel Gibbs. Oh

1:08:47He came over and played for Northern districts and like Yeah

1:08:59Sir Alastair Cook: I out yeah lively Paul Hallett played at Wellington thanks for that day and Oh she was gone gotta gotta be in the yeah it's at the top Gibbs I'm surprised I actually remembered yeah well there you go there's a few in this I can't beat yourself didn't play with Call me lady. I would lay with Coley. I'm I'm coming to Jeremy like someone like

1:09:33It's in guild Yeah, we like it. We like he's amazing. Yeah, a girl. Yeah, this is

1:09:40Sir Alastair Cook: lovely This is good Gil What's a fire to get a few? This is coming on both bolt bolt

1:09:58I got you might be enough. Did you play with you? Give him a minute. Hazelwood, no Cummins. Stark, did you play with him? Stokes. Who's in your IPLs? They're in a rounder somewhere, don't I? Did you play with Steve Patterson at Yorkshire? Jeff Thompson.

1:10:21Keep a stood up. Five. Let's go Baz. Baz is in there to play with Rashid Khan. You want two spinners? Put Baz number seven, Dave.

1:10:30Sir Alastair Cook: Seven? Where do you want him? Where do you want Baz? I haven't got any Kiwis yet. I've got Baz. Must have... I heard like Yuvaraj sings. Yuvaraj are five. Just get them down. We'll work out the rest afterwards. What's the squad first? If you play with Gil, who else round about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was like the last couple of years of IPL. Hardik Pandya was there, which... Pant? Could be a... Rishabh Pant, no? No, I think Baz might give the nod there. Baz at seven. Six or seven. Yeah, go six for Baz. Baz at six, Dave. Baz at six, Dave. Johnny's gone. Johnny B? No, no, not far away. Johnny B could bat a five.

1:11:17You've had six. I'm not picking Sarah. It's my turn yet. Yeah, yeah. Hold this. I need Trent Bolt. Bolt? Not bad. Very good, right. Can you ring Southie up and tell him in? I'm trying to think of the other teams I've played for, but... Do we need to crick him though? No, no, no. Yeah, we do, we do. Can you put Baz at six? South Africa. He doesn't want him in, be he? South Africa. Oh, hello. Got to have Narayan, don't I? Oh, yeah, Narayan. Tricky, not enough. Number eight, he can whack it.

1:11:48Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, it's just been heavy. I think you need a seamer at six or seven. You need an all-rounder. Mitch Marsh, he didn't play with him. I did. Matt Henry? Yeah, well, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I can't put him in at seven. Do you know, and it's early, but... Like, Willow Rourke's not away from this. Willow Rourke. Put Morelia or Willow Rourke, depending on conditions. No, Narayan or Willow Raw. Yeah. Narayan or Willow Raw. Depend on conditions, Dave. Heavy tail. Balance. Constant issue. Hardick's going to have to be close for me. I think most of the teams... Yeah, because we need an all-rounder.

1:12:39And then... Baz six. Baz six and five. Pundu.

1:12:43Sir Alastair Cook: Big Pundu. You've run. You said you've run. He's not... You've Raj. Yes. Bazz at six. Bazz at six. Bazz at six, Dave. It's an aggressive team. Warder Gibbs Gill. Joe's going to have to play the glue. Again. Or Harry Brook. Did you play with Harry Brook? I might have at Yorkshire when he was really young. And he is an absolute... Go Brook. Harry Brook at five. Jesus Christ is dangerous. This is Baz Ball recreating. I need to check. I might have. I do remember him being there when I was... He was young. Yeah, definitely. What year was that? Who's keeping wicket? Buzz? Yeah. Well, who else? 15 or 16.

1:13:25Sir Alastair Cook: Who else? Trent. Fez, Handia, Narayan. Oh, that's pretty good. Buzz is wicket-keeper and manager. Oh, he's Warner Gibbs Gill. Oh, I'd say that's a heavy top seven. Do you know what? That team would be very good if that was a multi-format. Yeah. To play in all three formats as that side. See, that would be a good month of cricket. A good month of cricket. International teams, you've got to pick a squad of 12, and they have to play all three formats over a month. How many weeks did that Matt Henry get? Three one days, three to five. In the right conditions, he's got... He was at the Oval, wasn't he?

1:14:06Sir Alastair Cook: Ring Matt Henry up and tell him that Kane hasn't picked.

1:14:12And what's the spook to be released? Well, I shouldn't say that. Today? November, so there's time for Willow Rock.

1:14:20Sir Alastair Cook: Matt on. Alla, mate. Yes, lovely. Listen, well-bold this summer, mate. Did you call him Matt? What's his name? Matt. I thought you called him Mike. Tessa. Tessa. No, it's cookies. Yeah, Matt, well-bold this summer. Excellent. Really good work. We're just picking the best 11 that your mate Kane Williamson has ever played with. Sorry, mate. But not selected. Oh, Jesus.

1:14:51He would be close, wouldn't he? We need that, don't we? Especially over here. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. OK, we finish off with a few community questions that have been sent in from lots around the world. First one is, what are the three main skills to make a good test match captain. That's come from Arky. Who's that come from? Arky.

1:15:21Sir Alastair Cook: I thought from H Brooke. H Brooke from Leeds.

1:15:31Three main skills. I reckon sometimes there's an illusion that everything happens in the moment, but I actually think having some level of preparation, is important in terms of like when you are in tough moments or under pressure like making sure that as a group you're doing things that make sense um look i i sort of believe staying calm in the chaos is quite important like especially dealing with with bowlers that um you know they sort of might be navigating the the spell a little bit or they might but actually like reinforcing, you know, that they're backing, that they're seeing you not sort of perhaps jump up and down when they're sort of struggling.

1:16:21Third thing, yeah, would be maybe consistency and messaging. I think when things get confusing for players is when that starts to break down. And it's not just messaging, but even like selection. Those two parts, I think they probably go hand in hand that if, you know, remembering that I'll make a decision or coach and I or whatever it might be on you toughers and Bumble sees it, you know. I dropped it. You're out. You're not there. You're out. You know, and really mindful of that. Like the things that kind of, you know, you've got great intentions, you're trying to build something as an environment, but mindful of the things that sort of can poke holes in it.

1:17:04Brilliant. Best bowler you've faced or well-o?

1:17:13Um... Dale.

1:17:15Sir Alastair Cook: He's a fuse. He's a fuse. I'll tell you who... Ring Jimmy up and tell him it's not him. Might not get mentioned, but also Vernon Philander was... Oh! Did you find that? Yeah, horrible. I mean, and I think combined with him, probably. Then you had Maury Morecambe. Not quite as good. Not as. No, for me, he was a brilliant bowler to right-handers. I think left-handers, he wasn't quite the same, but then I had more cool. I mean, I was fucked either. We all were. That's South Africa. A bit like Boubhaneshwar. Kumar. Just close to the rookie. Remember Mohamed Asif? Yeah. He was a bowler. He was a similar nibble off a length.

1:17:58Do you think Joe Root will break Sachin's record? That's an easy one. He's a year. A couple of years. I've done about 50 tests a year before. Could do it in India. Last one, Cain. What is the one thing about retirement that you're looking forward to the most? Oh, I mean, gosh, I'd love to have that future answer when this is released. Do you know, I think your time is dictated to you, you know, often when you played and that's where your focus was and so it was absolutely fine, but actually just having a little bit of choice over that. Run your own diary. Yeah. Take a breath. Best wine in New Zealand.

1:18:41Yeah, what's your best wine? Best wine in New Zealand. We like drinking the old grape on this show. Best wine in New Zealand. So give us one that we've never heard of, that we should be really looking for. Martinborough. Martinborough gets it. Do you know, well, my favourite has been discontinued, so not only have you never heard of it, you'll probably never try it. St Nisbet which is like a cab sav it's sort of Caraca area South Auckland

1:19:08Sir Alastair Cook: that Martinborough yeah you guys have tried a lot more of it than me yes very good point there's some good stuff there Craggy Range Craggy Range magnificent Cain thanks so much for coming on good luck with the book good luck with the book it'll be a bestseller well done mate brilliant

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