Australia vs England: The Overlap Ashes Debate w/ Tuffers & Vaughan

0:00Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. Hello and welcome to the Ashes Debate brought to you by Betfair. Phil Tufnell's joining me on the sofa and inside this room we have a load of Australian and England supporters to discuss the Ashes. Let's get in there. Go by.

0:34Oh, they're nice.

0:48Kerry, Kerry, what did your stumping do? There just isn't young players coming through when you look at the system. Now you look at the guys outside the team and you're like, well, maybe Wetherald. You didn't know who Wetherald was a week ago and you used to cover the Big Bash. Deep down they know that they've been a very good team, but you can't claim to be a great team if you haven't won any of these series. You know the bloke when you open your bag? Even he gave me a sledge as I walked off. Yeah, good luck you, Bobby. I was in the customs hall. English cricket just kind of leans on anything you can when it comes to the Ashes.

1:18It's going to be another 4-0, potentially 5-0. To England, is it? No, to Australia. You've either got Josh Tong, or you've got Shoy Bashir. I'm going Tong.

1:32HE CHUCKLES WHOOP!

1:41HE CHUCKLES Phil, we've got a crowd! We've got a crowd! What a crowd this is! We've got Aussies, we've got England supporters, we've got English journalists, we've got Australian journalists, we've got Finchie, the trumpeter from the Barmy Army, Adam from the Barmy Army as well. Manchester Cricket Club, is that right? to our right. Lovely. Phil, 27 days it starts. I know, so excited. Not far away now. Yeah, this is when the nerves start to just sort of tingle a little. You're nervous. Well, I'm a little bit nervous. I'm going over. No, I'm going over 16th. Really? You've got your hat. Yeah, I've got my flip-flops, got my shorts, got my hat, big bottle of champagne and my victory speech already in the suitcase.

2:25I know it! Come on! It's all in there, mate. It's all in there, ready to go. Now, as a player, this is when you really start getting sort of, like, excited. Absolutely. Phil, I don't know if you saw the announcement this week. Tess and Claudia have gone. Well... This is our rehearsal. Is it? Well, for strictly... It's our rehearsal, yeah. Strictly? Yeah. But, yeah, my... What was it? My tango was my best dance. What was yours? I didn't have one. No, you didn't have one. Didn't have one, no. Didn't have one. Let's start the show. Adam and Simon, Barmy Army, give us half an idea how many thousands are going to be travelling over to Perth to start with but overall?

3:02I think there's going to be between 5 ,000 and 8 ,000 in Perth, 30 ,000 to 40 ,000 travelling across the Tour. Wow. Obviously it ramps up in Melbourne and Sydney as we know but the excitement and anticipation is like we've never seen. There's a real positivity and optimism amongst England fans. We didn't go because of Covid last time, it's been eight years and there's just excitement, it's through the roof so can't wait to go over there. And Finchie you doing the whole trip I'm doing the whole trip the whole seven half weeks. How's the vocals? I don't sing I play

3:34I know if it fix him or that lips. Yeah, yeah I'm getting the long long note practicing so I'm your lips health plenty of lips. Oh, yeah, that sunshine Have you got any new songs for any of these? Oh, yeah, we got a few verses for the iconic take the own home and we've got some new songs coming up We've got some Alex Carey songs. Have you? Any, can you give us half an idea? I wonder what the subject matter will be. And we've got some Steve Smith in the locker. We've got some new Gretzak Crawley songs. You know. Can you give us a rendition of the Alex Carey song just so we can kind of get into the flow?

4:10All right. Carey, Carey, what did your stumping do? We're all crazy, over disgust for you. It wasn't a sporting action. the Lord showed their reaction but your look class upon you asked from a bouncer from Woody or but no was a bouncer from wood from wood on Joffra too

4:42and so the the Perth test match yeah what what's your first obviously Jerusalem comes out early. Yeah. What's going to be your first song? Other than Jerusalem? Depends if we're batting or bowling. Right. Oh, yeah. Well, Ben likes to bowl first. Yep. So he's bowling. Shake it up, Woody. Yeah, shake it up, Woody, probably. Yeah. Yeah. What's your Jaffa Archer song? Just Can't Get Enough, the Depeche Mode song. Right. Lovely. Classic. Do you think he'll have a bowl first? Phil, it was his famous saying, it was against India at Edgbaston. When he won the toss, He said, I'm having a bowl because we like to chase.

5:19Did it last year against India at Headingley? Did it at Edgbaston and it didn't work? At Edgbaston it worked at Headingley just. He likes to chase, Phil. And you still think he's going to do that even in Oz? It wouldn't surprise me. If you go against the grain. Right, let's get the journalists in. Will McPherson, English journalist. Jaros Kimber, Australian journalist. Thanks for coming on. Let's start with Will. Basball. It's been a topic of conversation. now for three or four years. Is this the moment where they're going to be properly judged? Absolutely, yeah. English cricket works in ashes cycles, right?

5:55This basble happened because that tour that Adam referenced was such a disaster four years ago. They out with the old, in with the new. Stokes, McCullum, Key came in. But this could be the moment when they get moved on afterwards if they lose heavily again. So the thing about this England team, they're unbelievable to watch, great to cover, what an experience. just watching them play. But they've had some good series wins. 3-0 in Pakistan, incredible. That run chase at Edgbaston against India was amazing. And some great games along the way. But have they won a big series? Sadly not. They've drawn two all against Australia and India at home.

6:30I think we all probably thought they should have won that series at home this summer. They didn't. So they're going down to Australia to try and win the urn back. But if they don't, it will be four years of work where they haven't actually got like a flagship series to show for their work. and that would be a shame, I think, because they've been so much fun to be around and to watch and they have changed the way the game is played to some extent. Maybe not as much as some people might say, but there's not much new under the sun, is there? But they're, yeah. Do you think the drawn series again in Sindia, where they need what they need, 30 with five wickets to go, all right, Chris Wokes wasn't able to bat properly.

7:05Do you think that that series and not winning that series will have an effect on the Ashes? I think it will actually weirdly I think it will harden England I think they'll be a tougher team because of that series if you look at the way I actually think that was a shocker to not chase those runs but they played that game with 10 men it's quite a good result to only lose by 6 runs the one before the old Trafford game was the shocker wasn't it to bowl at India for 5 sessions and not be able to bowl them out that's the one that I think will really really hurt them but they came through that series They didn't win it, but I think they've come through a stronger team.

7:41I think if you look at England's bowling attack, Archer's back would hopefully be fit. You never quite know with Mark Wood. Ben Stokes looks a better bowler than he's been for years. Atkinson, Tongue, Kars. That's a proper attack they're taking now. I don't think those series would necessarily scar them. Perhaps like in my day, you'd be sitting there churning. Oh, my God, that was such a great opportunity. I think this team just sort of go to the bar, brush themselves off and go again. I don't think it really sits heavy with them. What do you think? Well, I know that people around that team were hurting at the end of that series.

8:18They like to look relaxed and like everything's, you know, we'll tee it up tomorrow and everything will be fine. But I think they know, I think deep down, they know that they've been a very good team, but you can't claim to be a great team if you haven't won any of these series. I think it's on their mind. And I think, as I said, I think it'll harden them, actually. I think they'll be tougher because of it rather than kind of hurt. That relaxed kind of exterior that they portray to everybody, do you think November the 21st, Perth, they'll be able to continue in that kind of mindset? Yes, although Australia will pose challenges for them on and off the field like they haven't had in this four-year period.

8:57You know, just going on, you guys both know you go to Australia and you're marked men as English cricketers. Like, the moment they get off the plane in Perth, there's going to be a lot of interest. You look at the level of interest around that India series in Australia last year, the Border Gavisker, which was just through the roof, and players at the airport being, you know, I think Virat got pretty wound up at a news reporter at one point. That's going to happen to the English boys. It's going to be even more than that. It's not easy to stay relaxed in that environment, but I do think there is a bit of, for all the talk about the tactical work they've done and the way they've changed the way they play, I think it's the kind of, there's a bit of magic off the field in what Stokes and McCollum do.

9:36That's their genius, I think, in making the players... They talk about making them feel 10 foot tall. That's their kind of expression. And they do seem to do... How do they do that with Ben Duckett? Yeah. The very big box. Yeah, lots of yellow pages. You know how to win in Australia, don't you, Phil? Not cricket. You won the jungle. I won the jungle, yeah. The only time I actually have come back from Australia having one other thing, correct? But yeah, I mean, just talking about that, it's the atmosphere as soon as you get. The bloke sledged me. You know the bloke when you open your bag and he checks your boots to make sure you haven't brought in any mud or anything like that?

10:18Well, I hope you didn't. Yeah, well, he didn't. No, I didn't, no. But even he gave me a sledge as I walked off. Yeah, good luck, you Bobby bastard. And I was in the customs hall. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. The umpire was the best one, wasn't it? Yeah, that was Peter McConnell. McConnell, Peter McConnell, all those years ago. Might be. I used to have a little thing when I bowled. I made my debut at the MCG, which I don't think they'd allow anymore, you know what I mean, due to your care. 110 ,000 people and the umpire, they were two Aussie umpires, and I bowled the first three balls and I turned to the umpire and I've gone, how many balls left over ump?

10:58And he said, count them yourself, you pommy bastard. So you know you're in something a little bit special when you go over there. It just goes up. The rivalry just ramps up when you're over there. Well, there's no one better to ask. Jared Kimber, Australian journalist, give us an indication. We can talk anything about Australia, about, oh, they're in decline, the bowling attack's just over the edge, it's a little bit too old. You've been there for many, many years. Australia, they know how to win, don't they? They've actually won a lot of test matches recently, right? So we're all looking at them going, they can't bat, and their bowling attack might be older than the sofa over there, right?

11:41Like, it's really old. Absolutely. And yet, they're still winning games. So there's something in there. And I think when you've got the best bowling attack, probably in the world, right, when it's fully fit, we'll talk about Cummins later, but when you've got the best bowling attack in the world, you win a lot of matches, and they're going to do that. On top of that is the other stuff you were talking about. Do you remember when they did all that stuff with Jonathan Trott where they got him to talk to a sports psychologist and how he'd be in a bubble on the boundary, and the first time he went to the boundary, he almost broke down.

12:06It's a different kind of thing. So you are going up against the customs officials, not the umpires anymore. Those are switched out a little bit these days. But you are going up against every single layer of the culture. Do you remember Stuart Broad, front page of the Courier-Mail was trolling him, right? I didn't even know that they could spell it, the Courier-Mail. But somehow they managed to do it right. And they had a go at him. And, you know, he came in with the newspaper and everything. That's not happening in normal cricket culture, is it? So you're going up against everything else. And on top of that, you've still got Hazelwood and Stark and Lyon and Boland, right?

12:38Like, even without Cummins, that's an incredible bowling attack. The batting, it's not so good. Have you found any batters? No. No? No. Well, we've re-found Marnus. Does that help? Yeah. So what has he got? 400 out of five knocks so far in the Australian summer? I think he just needed to go off and have a bit of a race. He gets a bit wound up, Marnus. I think he just gets a bit obsessive and I think he just needed that break from cricket for a little while and he's worked it out again. He'll probably have to open the batting, though, which is also not something he's done. That's not his spot, though, is it?

13:08Let's be fair. Do you think he'll open? I don't think they want to move Cameron Green, right? Green will go in at number three. Marnus with Usman at the top of the order. I think that's probably their best option at the moment. I can't see them going in a different direction. You haven't found someone under a stone in Wollongong or something that's going to come out and score 400s again. You used to sleep under a stone. Well, we had Sam Constance, didn't we, against India. He came from nowhere. And I don't think Sam Constance can believe he made runs against Jasper Boomerang. So he hasn't done much since.

13:42There's a guy called McSweeney I like a little bit as well. I think they'll go with Marnus. He's possible. I'm not sure he's under a stone worthy. I'm not sure he's 400s in the ashes worthy. Look, there's no batting in the country. It really is a huge issue all the way through, and it has been for a long time now. So they're going to have to rely on an old bowling line-up.

14:09Let's go back to the 90s, where Australia were pretty much battering on a regular base. Sorry, Phil. But they'd had a top seven that you'd read through and go, yeah, that's strong. and then they'd have another top seven. I remember the A games. You'd have played Australia. You'd play in the triangular series. And the A side would damage England as well. Why is it that Australia have got themselves into this position where, as you're saying, the batting depth looks so light? I think sometimes it's just cycles, right? Like I think there's an element of you don't always have that level of talent coming through.

14:40But they've made the pitches in Shield cricket really spicy and no one's making any runs. So when they get to the international level, they're not feeling very comfortable, right? because they haven't made any runs in the shield level. The other thing is the Kookaburra balls, they spiced up the seam a little bit. And I think you would know this from 2005. When the ball's moving laterally, Australian batters are not quite at their best, right? That's something you learn in England more than you learn in Australia. So, you know, without getting too nerdy and technical, it's all those things. But on top of it, there just isn't young players coming through when you look at the system.

15:10I mean, you talk about Law and Bevan, you know, Matthew Elliott, Brad Hodge, Lehman. Martin Love. Martin Love, barely played, right? These are guys who would be, what, other than Smith, the second, third, fourth best players in the current side, and they couldn't get in the team. Now you look at the guys outside the team and you're like, well, maybe Wetherald. You didn't know who Wetherald was a week ago, and you used to cover the Big Bash. I thought it was a top that you wore when it was raining. Wetherald, put your Wetherald on. Will, when the England squad was announced, was there any shocks?

15:45I think will Jack's caught a few people by surprise to me, but I think it was kind of amazing the end of that India series you had You probably could have picked if you said this can be 16 or 17 lads going You could have probably picked 15 of them right there and then and then yeah You're back up spinner where maybe he will be the front line spinner Maybe they'll read configure the side a little bit the 11's got some questions, isn't it? There's two there's two big questions How do you get you get your spinner in whether you go for like a jackson number eight or is Bashir as you? at number 11 and then number three.

16:16So Pope and Bethel, that debate rages on. Where are you with the Pope-Bethel? Obviously, Olly Pope's had the vice-captaincy taken off him. Harry Brook will be the VC. Is it all on what Bethel does? I mean, they've had a lot of rain in New Zealand. Yeah. In the tour so far. Is it all on the next couple of weeks? I don't think so. I think they have made their decision. I don't... They're good at... One thing this set-up does quite well is they kind of leave these things. They let them play out. They didn't come out when they announced the squad and say Ollie Pope is our number three. So you remember when, before they went to India, they had a bit of a, in 2024, they had a bit of a logjam.

16:51They had Harry Brooke, Johnny Bairstow and Ben Foulkes all kind of competing for numbers five and seven. And they just didn't say anything, didn't say anything, didn't know what they were going to do. And then things happened. Harry Brooke's grandma, sadly, fell ill and then eventually died. So he missed the whole tour. They don't want to commit to something. They don't want to say Jacob Bethel's our number three. But at the start of the summer, when Ollie got a big hundred against Zimbabwe, Ben Stokes came out and said Ollie Pope is our number three. Yeah, the right popper. And he got 100 against Jasbit Bummer in the first test at Henley.

17:17All right, he didn't get a huge amount of runs after that. But the captain did say only a few tests ago that Ollie Pope is our number three. I'd pick Pope in Perth. But didn't Rob Key say not long before that that they were actually going to be flexible with the number three spot as well? So they haven't even been clear on what they want to do, right? I want to talk to you, Tuff, as though, about the spinners. What, about the number three spot? Yeah. Obviously not. Get your bat full. That will travel. Are we going to see much spin in the whole series? Nathan Lyon barely bowls in Australia anymore.

17:45He might not get picked. He's got a good record at Perth, though, hasn't he? He does, yeah. Yeah, he does. In the days when he used to bowl, but these days he only gets about 20 overs a game. Yeah, well, this is why I liked... It did throw me a little bit, Jax. I didn't necessarily see Jax. He came from nowhere. But, you know, I was thinking Ahmed or Dawson or these kind of people. But then actually, when it then... When he selected Jax, They're very good at this, Stokes and McCullum. You sit there and go, well, actually, that kind of makes sense. You know what I mean? Bowls some nice off. He's got a five for against Pakistan.

18:15Coming in at eight, crikey, a rally. Will Jack's coming in at number eight. I'm having Jack's in Perth. Cool. I mean, you don't want to see that as a bowling attack with an old knackered kookaburra ball, flat pitch, sun's out. Will Jack's cruising out there. I mean, they are very good at just getting those selections kind of right and it makes sense for me, Jack's. But if you've got this tall bowler, this tall off-spinner in Shoaibashir that you've been pushing for ages, isn't Perth the place you want the extra bounce? Well, that is perhaps, yeah. I think you're right. All I'll say is, because you mentioned the Cookerbill ball, there's a more prominent seam, it's doing a lot more.

18:49Last year against India at Perth it did also. Bummer balled probably two or three spells that you could probably put in the top ten of all time in Test cricket. Unplayable. Now I look at Bashir and think, if I'm Australian, if I get to face Shoaibashir in Perth, I'll be absolutely delighted. So for that reason, I'm going, Will Jacks, pack the bat. And if you need a little bit of off-tweet, you've got Joe, you've got Will Jacks. Let's see who bats number three. If Jacob's at number three, you've got a little bit of left-hand spin. I'm not saying he's going to rip through the Aussies, but at least you've got a little bit of variation.

19:20I'd be amazed if they play Bashir in Perth. And if he doesn't play in Perth, I can't think that he'll play in Brisbane either. He may come in in Adler. I think he could play a part throughout the series. We'll have to wait and see on the pitches. But Perth is the spot for him. Perth is the spot for him, as you said. It's all but if it's bouncing for Bashir, it's gonna be bouncing for Mark Wood, Joffre. Yeah, it's gonna be now that the big talking point like Pat Cummins. Yeah, have you got any inside try I saw him on Instagram. I think I saw him running Just a few days ago, which which is a start when you had a stressy.

19:52Yeah, so you start to come back You have a bit of a jog any inside track He's obviously not playing in the first test and any any hints that you hear of people saying he might play I just think he's nonsense. He's not bowling at the moment. He's not playing in the first test. Third test, perhaps? It's quite nicely spaced out, isn't it? So we go Perth and then there's nine days, then the day-nighter in Brisbane. Which will probably be short. Adelaide starts, is it December 17th? Yeah, it's just before Christmas. Those last three come, they're like back to back to back. But the first three are very well spaced out.

20:22So I could see Adelaide, yeah. Yeah, I think that's where they're aiming at the moment. But to be honest, I don't think they know. Because they expected him to be bowling by this point. Maybe not playing in the first test, but bowling, maybe off the short run getting through. And he's not doing it. As you said, as far as we know, he's just started running. And I know they do a lot of stuff. I'm always a bit AI these days that you can put people. I'm like, is that AI Pat Cummins? I'm never quite sure. How many fingers does he have? Yeah, I mean, is it a simple no Cummins, just Bowling comes in for him?

20:55And that means start bats at eight? To go back to the spinner thing, I thought they were going to drop Lyon. Right. I thought they were going to go full pace because they dropped Lyon in the West Indies. And as I said, he's not bowling much in Australia anymore, right? The tests are so short. So just go with that. So Nathan doesn't play in Perth. Well, he's going to have to now, I think, because I don't think they will bring in it. I don't think they'll go with a four-seamer. Or will they potentially go all the all-rounders and Bo Wester becomes that bowler that can bowl you a little bit of wobble and a little bit of off-tweak?

21:24Bowls both. Yeah. See, that's why I thought they could drop Lyon. A bit like the Will Jacks thing where you just go, look, he can bowl spin if we need it. We'll get through, what, 15 overs and innings if we have to do it with him. Now, it's a little bit more risky because you have to bring in your fourth seamer, right, into the line-up. So the fifth seamer now has to come in if they want specialists. And they've got Green and they've got Webster with backup. So I think Lyon still plays in the first couple of test matches now. At least until Cummins is fit, then it'll be interesting to see what they do from then on in.

21:53There's a lot of confusion. Oh, there's a lot. They don't know who the batters are. and you're now saying you don't really know who your bowlers are. You know some of them. You know some of them.

22:09Right, war of words. Over the last few, it always happens leading into an Ashes. I'll read you a few quotes. David Warner, we are playing for the Ashes and they are playing for a moral victory. Stuart Broad, this is the worst Australian team since 2010-11. Stewie. Zach Crawley. Zach Crawley has said, basketball winds them up. Adam Gilchrist, we were playing basketball 20 years ago. Correct. Matthew Hayden, I like this one, he said, if Joe Root doesn't make 100, I'll run around the MCG naked. Now, I'm not saying that's going to be a pretty sight. So let's hope that Joe gets the century. Let's welcome in our fans.

22:51We've got Simon, Heidi and Shashir. I'm going to start with you, Heidi. Light your hat. You've gone with the Australian Pats. Gory Aussies. Does Bazbo wind your Aussies up? I feel like general consensus, yes. It does? Well, I think so, but I think that's because, albeit I think it's entertaining, but you've not actually won. So I think it's a bit flashy and it's all very exciting. When you say it winds them up, do you think they're sort of apprehensive of it? No. That's why it winds them up? Do you do the juice are you saying that the oldest thing it's load of bollocks? Yeah, it is You just you just created more opportunities for us to take wickets like I don't know the bollocks Why do you talk about it more than we do?

23:46And David Warner she she he's just being David one Yeah, just fish he's done it right his whole playing days and now he's got the mic in his hand. Big media crew, head of him, fishing for likes. That's all it's about? Yeah, I guess so, yeah. What did you think of the moral victory in 2023? Oh, yeah, it is what it is. Do you know where this hat, by the way? No, no. What's the hat? Moral victory. Love it, Ian. No, no, no. I feel like English cricket just kind of leans on anything you can when it comes to the Ashes in terms of victory, yeah, it's going to be another 4-0, potentially 5-0. David, what?

24:30What to England, is it? No, to Australia. Do you generally believe that? You think Australia will absolutely wipe the floor? Yeah, good chance, 4-0. For what reason? Well, the last two home series, it's been 4-0. Well, the last series was void. Right. This is what I mean. 23 here in the UK, 2-0. Does that play any part in this year's Ashes? Different conditions. I think coming over here and playing cricket in England, the ball's different, the seam's different, the way you swing the ball, the way you spin the ball, the whole game is very different. But in Australia, we really lean on our first-class system and the way we play cricket is really hard.

25:08It's very successful. We know what we're doing. We've got the same team for the last six or seven years. It's tried and tested. It's a massive uphill battle to get one test match for England, in my opinion. but the last couple I've been there the last few years Pakistan the previous winter if they'd have caught and I think a big play for England is catching I do think Australia catch better than England if England can catch I think they'll create chances as Pakistan did if they'd have caught Pakistan would have won a test maybe two you go back to India last year it was so close if Bumma had been fit for the final innings at the SCG that possibly would have been a two all this isn't an Australian side like the old Australian sides that used to just blow everyone away.

25:50They give the opposition a chance. So when you say 4-0... You're right, 5-0. Like I said, there's two spots potentially up for grabs. One in the bowling line-up, one in the batting. The guys that are coming into that role, I reckon they're ready to go. Ashes cricket's all about bringing out the diamonds out of the rough. Anyone that steps in is going to come out and play the best cricket. It's going to be such a good series to see and I think the quality of Test cricket is going to step up another level and I think where Australian cricket's at, I'm a bit more of an optimist than Jarrod, but I think we're pretty good at the moment.

26:29It's a good series to be an Australian and if you're getting a gig, whether it be Jake opening a batting or maybe like a Ferguson, he'll come in and bowl, they're going to go so hard. And yeah, I don't think you guys are up for it. You've got four or five... Simon, Simon, English fan. Are the Aussies over the edge? I think without Cummins, then, yeah, I think they'll struggle. Boland, Boland's gone, obviously, but I just feel without Pat Cummins, I mean, Joe Root's just going to fill his boots, I think. So Matthew Hayden won't be running around naked at the MCG? Well, I mean, I certainly hope not.

27:09I certainly hope not for a few reasons. Well, I'll ask you. So Michael Atherton wrote recently about Scott Boling and this England batting line won't be fearful of Scott Boling. He averages 12 in Australia. Yeah, with the ball in hand. His career is like, he's clearly an unbelievable bowler. He's honed his craft over like 15 years in shield cricket, tough environment. When he came into that MCG test in 2021, the Void Series, I was there and it was like, again, we're taking this bloke a little bit lightly. It was like, oh, this is a bit of a relief. Hazelwood's not playing great. This bloke comes and he takes six for seven.

27:39They build a statue. But then the following summer... Has he got a statue? He hasn't, but he will have one. They were talking about it. And then 2023, he played two games. He took two wickets in two games. And one of those games was at Headingley. I think the highest score in that game was about 2.75. It was a low-scoring game. That should have been his game. He took two wickets in that series. They were both Zach Crawley in the first test. So he's only got one of the England batters out in that series. But in Australia, here's a different story. And I think, yeah, I don't think they'll fear him as such, but I think they really need to respect him.

28:12They use their feet to him. And he's not a good white ball bowler. and it just upset him. He would be used to that now, but can you use your feet in Australia with the extra bounce? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, just on that, I mean, Australia, the grounds are massive, aren't they? I think that's going to have quite a bit of play. That's my biggest warrior about England. Lokes being caught 10 yards. Well, you look to New Zealand where they've had success and they've smashed the ball to all parts, but it's like batting on a postage stamp. Look at Harry Brook. Harry Brook, for me, is a generational talent, but the big grounds in Australia, they're going to pepper him.

28:41James Smith. He doesn't duck. No. And those balls that you see kind of top-edged into the stands in Auckland or wherever they put Wellington They're going straight down an Australian stroke and they don't drop them So that's my one concern the ground sizes in Australia for England agree completely Yeah, I think there's a few of those lads who they're just gonna bomb like you look do you look at I think James Smith He's also unbelievable player, but he hasn't played any Ashes cricket before. Do you remember heading leave this summer when when India He was going nicely. Hey India bombed him. He hit two or three sixes They were 20 yards back into the stands, and then they go again.

29:13They kept going, oh, wait. And you knew he was going to keep going as well, and that's the thing in Australia. Without Cummins, maybe the patience disappears a little bit, but generally they were very, because they're older, they're on a patient side, they'll just be like, well, wait, you'll hit a couple of sixes, but eventually you're going to hole out. And I think that's a big advantage to Australia. Well, I think it's going to be interesting. So many things happen on the first ball, don't they, in Ashes series. It's going to be interesting to see whether they've got a deep extra cover or a bloke on the offside boundary, first ball.

29:38I think they will. Your record? Yeah, I just think I like that. And that goes back to basball, does it wind them up? That is just then a little sign for me as well. You know, an Australian side that I can remember, you know, they'd have a row of slips, they'd be all in your ear. Wouldn't see one there. First ball of an Ashes season. I reckon there'll be one there. Yeah, because you played a lot against Steve Waugh, who had like 12 slips in when they didn't even have that many fielders on the field, right? Pat Cummins, that's not how he does things, right? He's much more about control. And so, you know, Andrew McDonald, the coach, much more about controlling it.

30:09And they also think, as I just said, England's going to keep coming. As you were saying before, they give you chances. So Australia's like, OK, we'll put the field out. You won't get your cheap boundaries. But some of those guys, I mean, you watch Zach Crawley, he still hits the four with the fielder out there, right? Like, it doesn't stop the boundaries. It's not going to stop England playing how they play, is it, having that fielder out on the boundary? Heidi, Pat Cummins out, first test. How big an effect is that going to be? I think that's a thing that wobbles, because I think he's been so consistent.

30:36He's obviously the captain as well in saying that Steve Smith is captain. I don't think that phases him I think if anything he probably scores more runs. So I think that's you know strengths and weaknesses there I think that's every cloud has silver lining But yeah, I don't think it's likely I feel like maybe third test maybe Do you think so you go back to West Bastard in 23? When the Aussies came out the field and they had a cover point on the boundary a square leg on the boundary Perth day one are we gonna see say Steve Smith the captain Do you think we're going to see cover point on the boundary, square leg back on the boundary?

31:08From ball one? I think you get around the bat. I think there'll be a massive, I think there'll be everyone in. Tempt him. But then I think, I don't know, play, you know, Balsall do tempt them, but I think you want to play your own game, play your strengths, and I think, yeah, it'll be stacked in the slips. I personally want to see Bo Webster in there. Bo, yeah? Yeah. Cameron Green and Bo Webster in the cordon. Two albatrosses. Yeah. Only need to. Or maybe one for one. But yeah. Did you see, you guys were being commentating last Ashes, Smith and Cummins were arguing the whole time about that deep point fielder.

31:45Yeah. Just constantly. And Smith just kept saying, bring him up, bring him up. Especially when Joe Root's batting. Joe Root's just going single, single. And you could see Smith getting redder and redder. So I think we will see at times where Smith will bring him in. But eventually I think they'll go back to having the ball. I argue, Jared, that Cummins is an incredible leader. brilliant captain. I think Smith is at times a tactical genius. He's a better tactical captain and Cummins might be a better overall leader. Is that fair? Yeah, I think that's right. I reckon Cummins does a lot of work off the field to get right, whereas Smith's just a genius, right?

32:17So he's out there and going, I'll just move this now. Cummins can't do that because that goes away from his plan. So in some ways, if you get Cummins planning for the series and you get Smith, the tactical guy, that might be the best of both worlds but you'd probably still rather have Cummins bowling for you. Absolutely. Adam Simon, I'm going to ask you, 2010-11, the last time England won down in Australia. Mitchell Johnson was the player that you targeted with to the left, to the right. Who are you targeting this time? Anyone with an Aussie shirt on. I think we'll do what we can to help the lads get a victory.

32:50I think whoever's wearing that shirt for Australia is going to have a bit of banter. We're going to give them some stick where we can. But it'll be all good-natured. We'll just be getting behind the boys. But I think Alex Carey is probably a likely candidate. Yeah, he's up there. You were there 10 and 11, weren't you? When Mitchell Johnson came out to bat at the SCG, England 2-1 up, and that full bank of Barmy army England supporters, wow, that was noisy. Have you got a bowler that you're going to pick on? I know you'll pick on most of them, but is there one that you're kind of targeting? Well, I think, as you're talking about, if Bowling plays, he's the one that we can try and target because he's potentially the weak link.

33:27He's clearly a good player and he's got a good average, but he's no Pat Cummins, is he? So if we can get after him and pile on some early runs, then I think we're in with a good shout. I love England supporters. He's the weak link. He averages 12. He's like what the others are. I mean, our batting line-up is very special, but they don't have monstrous averages. I mean, Joe Root, obviously, is incredible. Joe Root, does he hold the key for that batting line-up? You know, Ducky at the top, magnificent. whoever bats at three, Zach will come out and play his way. But for England to have real success, the glue has to come at number four.

34:07Yeah, I think so. I think this is Joe's time, isn't it, to prove all the doubt was wrong. He's probably the best batsman in the world, and that's just the one final thing that people talk about, getting that 100 in Australia and playing a series-winning innings at some point. We're confident he's going to be a top-run scorer in the series. He's an absolute class act on and off the pitch. So this is his time to shine. But I think there's so much strength and depth in that batting that they'll all chip in. Brook will chip in, Crawley will chip in, duck it. They're all quality players. So I think when you talk about the Australian batting line-up saying they've got no batters, we've got seven or eight that at any time could come off.

34:45So, yeah, we're really positive. And that's what goes back to Gilchrist. They were playing it when he was playing because they had that bank of seven batters and they just thought, right, if we just put the bowlers under pressure, we know at least three or four of them are going to come off. They almost sacrifice yourself for the other lads. I remember Hayden in 2002. Andrew Cattitballed a decent first spell at Brisbane. That's when Nasser decided to have a bowl. And Haydos kept on drop-kicking him over his head for six inside the first few overs. So, Jared, they were playing it 20 years ago, weren't they?

35:18Yeah, I think... I mean, you basically started having fielders out on the boundary, right? And that's what it comes from, right? Just to stay in the game. Australia were hitting so many boundaries, you were like, well, if we put them out, we'll at least be able to slow them down and contain them a little bit. I think that the difference is, I've done the maths before, I think Australia were about, let's say, 0.7 runs and over quicker than everyone else, whereas at times England have been two runs and over quicker than everyone else. So it's a bigger jump up. It's only 0.7? Yeah. It probably felt more at times when Mark Waugh was coming down the wicket to you.

35:48Damien Martin and Fonson and all those boys. Yeah, it wasn't, because in those days they were going from a very low base to just slightly quicker. Yeah, they were looking to go at four and halves and over. Yeah, they didn't go at four and halves. They told everyone they went at four and halves. No one was looking at the numbers, mate. Oh, shit, what was that? I'm already following that part. I've dropped it. Right, where's Kieran? Let's get the board out.

36:13So what we're going to do is, England fans, everyone join in. Come on. You're all now the selection unit for the England cricket team. You've all flown to Perth. You've had a good few days on Rocknest Island. You've drunk loads of piss. And now you have got to pick the England side for Perth. Oh, is it me? Phil's going to... And the Australians as well in the room. So let's start with England. We'll start with the England team. I'm down the middle. It's a beautiful week in Perth. Hold on a minute. I'm left-handed. Does that matter? Are you going to get a picture of this? You're good, Phil. Can you write 1 to 11, please, Phil?

36:50That's going to be tricky, isn't it? OK. Right. So if you want to shout a name, I presume Ben Duckett. Ben Duckett, number one, Phil. Oh, I've done it again. Yeah. Ben Duckett, Duckett, little Duckett. We haven't got a nine, Phil.

37:10I've missed that. There's 11 players in a team. Just thought I'd like one. So Ben Duckett, yeah? Shout names out. Who do you want, number two? Crawley. Crawley, yeah. You're having Crawley. This is England. Is Zach Crawley under any pressure in this series? No. Nothing? No pressure? Average is 30? I think he's got, funnily enough, less pressure than anyone. He's been given the role to just go out there and just go completely free. He's got a mulligan. Yeah, it's like he's got a mulligan. Why is he there then? I don't get it. You don't get it? I think Crawley gets away with it quite a bit because he's obviously a class player, but I think he gets away with it because of how well they work together because they're so different height-wise, left and right, and Duckett likes to sit back, Crawley likes to come forward, and I think those two, they almost come as a pair of like, well, can you have one without the other?

38:04You probably could, but I think Crawley gets away with it because of how well they go together. I don't think cricket fans understand how hard it is to change between a bloke who's 4 '8 and 6 '5. You've got to completely change your length to the two of them, right? They're basically changing the... Yeah, big driver of a ball against someone that's just kind of cutting and putting it away. He must be under some pressure. It's the Ashes, Phil. He can't just have a free hit. Well, no, but I think he's almost sort of got himself into that position, and that's another thing from Baz and Stokes here.

38:36They've just given him the licence to go out there and express himself. He's probably the weirdest player in history, right? He's better against better bowling, against quicker bowling. He's got a good average against his own. He scored 480 runs in the last Ashes. Terrible against any doublers. Bo Webster is a worry. Ironically, Bo Webster, correct. A nibble. He's the kind of baller that might cause... Mitch Marsh used to get him out, do you remember? Yeah, yeah. We'll get on to Mitch Marsh, actually, when we pick the Aussie team. Number three, where do you want to go? Pope. Oli Pope or Cole Bethel?

39:04Pope or Bethel? Bethel down the bottom. Bethel, Bethel. I think that's Bethel. Simon's going Bethel. I love Pope. We've got to give Pope a chance, haven't we? Right, so Pope's got to be given a chance. You drop him, where does he go after that if Bethel doesn't come off? Yeah, I think I'm just in that school of thought. If you've given Pope this journey till now... Sam Curran should be number three. Who? Wow. Sam Curran. Ride it up. Get it on. I'll tell you what, is that double R? The problem with that is he's not on the trip. We'll struggle to get him in. There's 34 guys in the squad, isn't there?

39:40He must be out there somewhere. We can get him flowing over, but I don't think it's going to be Pope or... Let's show of hands for Ollie Pope. Right, it's Ollie Pope, Phil. Ollie Pope gets the nod. Joe Root, number four. We're not even talking him. No. Harry Brooke, number five. Don't need to mention him. Skipper. Any concerns about Ben Stokes' fitness? Well, I don't know. Apparently. I'm not a physio, Mark. No. True. But he'll be all right when he stokes you'll play. Well, yeah. I think he's going to have to sort of like just look after his bowling a little bit. Will, any concern about Stokes?

40:17Well, I was going to say earlier when we were talking about Will Jacks, I think the fact that Will Jacks is going on that trip suggests that they're a little bit worried about it. Because I think Jacks is part of their contingency if Stokes can't play a game. Ah, it's the all-round... So he would come at maybe about seven, and then you pick four seamers after that. What about your man, Sam Curran? Well, yeah, a little bit of left-arm Dibbidobler. It might work. Sam Curran, I mean, he's back in the one day. He's a bit of a forgotten man, isn't he? He's a good player. Yeah. Right, we've got Stokes.

40:44Jamie Smith, keeper. Yeah. Now this will get interesting from here on in. Number eight. So I'm saying the options are you can go Will Jacks, Gus Atkinson, Brydon Kars comes into the mix. He could bat eight or nine. Where do you want to go? Jacks. Jacks. Will Jacks. Go, go. So you're going to go with the spinner and then three seamers? Yeah. Spinner, three seamers. No down there. Not happy? Bashir has to play. Bashir has to play. Okay, so you're sticking with your off spinner. Yeah. Even though in Perth, spin hasn't been you... For the bounce. Right, okay. So someone in the... What's your name?

41:24Oscar. Oscar's saying that he wants Bashir in Perth for the bounce. Well, shall we... What are we doing? He's probably not going to bet number eight, though, is he? No. Barmy Army, come on, Adam Simon, where are you going? Who do you want at number eight? Atkinson. Gus Atkinson. Yep, yep. I think so. All right, Gus Atkinson. Lord Centurion. Right, so that's the vote. Will Jax, Gus Atkinson, number eight. Have a vote. Will Jax. Just a few. Gussie Atkinson. Right, Gus Atkinson. Your team, remember, this is Gus. And I think also Perth... You just put in Gus. I don't know how to spell Atkinson. It's too long, I'm all like that, Mike.

42:04I think also at Perth, I think Gus sometimes... It's all very well and good having these sort of banging bowlers at Perth. You can get carried away with that at Perth. Gassi's a little bit more of a sort of hit-the-top-of-off-stump kind of bowler, and I think England will need that. Do you think, I mean, Chris Wokes' injury is obviously a bad one. Someone like Sam Cooke. I mean, Australian conditions the last few years, top-of-off-stump, just a bit of wobble, different Cooke-Burra ball. Do you think England have missed a trick by not picking a Sam Cooke-style ball? They've got Potts in the squad, haven't they?

42:36I think he's playing that role. He's the slowest of the seamers they've got. I think I like Cooke a lot. I didn't think he quite got a fair crack. He had a stinker. He won game against Zimbabwe. Stinker. Stinker. He took one for, didn't he? But he didn't look like he was going to move the ball that much, did he? He had a stinker. That's his debut. We've all had a stinker in your debut. I've got 0-0-0-0, 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0. You've got the Audi. I've got the Audi. Right, so, Gus, number nine. Options are... Joffre. Joffre, Braden Kass. I think they like Kars to play. I think they like Kars.

43:18But that's sort of the Atkinson one. I'm not going Kars in person. I think there's better bowlers. I think with the bat in depth, you've just got to pick your best ball. If they're fit, it's Wood and Archer, right? So 9 and 10? 9, Archer. Joffre, Archer, 9, happy with that? All happy with that. Look at those Aussie hats at the bat, Phil. They're nice. They hit the flies off, they're they? The corks, I think. And Mark Ward, he fit. We've got two more spots. I'm a big Tong fan, yeah. I mean, he wiped the tail this series against India. Got 18 wickets in three test matches. I actually thought in the last Ashes in 23, how he only played one test match is beyond me.

44:01He played the Lords test match and then didn't play again. I think Jimmy played. Did he play all five or four out of five, Jimmy Anderson? Got six wickets, Jimmy in the last Ashes. I think five maybe. Was it five? Oh, that's right, Joe got more. 5.85, then you? Yeah, I think that was right. Canoeuvre up a tail. Canoeuvre up a tail. Well, you're going wood at ten. Going wood at ten. What's the song you sing about Woody? Shake it up Woody now. Yeah, shake it up Woody. Yeah, well, he's got to play because you've got that song to sing, so he'll be playing. Eleven. So the options are you go all out pace, Josh Tong, or you're going with Oscar, and Bashir has to play.

44:40I'm going to let the Barmy army decide. Who would I... If I was walking out to Bath, who would I bother to be facing at the other end? Where's that ball? A bloke. Give us a ball, Kieran. I'm going to... Where is it? I don't want a hard ball. I've got a tennis ball. A big offy, to be fair. A big offy, yeah. Don't worry, Mark. Phil, I'm going to give you an option. I'm going to give you an option. Come on, then. Right. Yeah, go on. This is hard. Watch your seat. You've either got Josh Tong, right? You've got Josh Tong or you've got Shoy Bashir. That's it. Which one are you going to pick? I'm going Tong.

45:22But it's not your choice. I'm right, I was sitting there, they're the champ. I think Tong and then Rooty can bowl a few overs if you need him to at some point. So that's it then, is it? So we've got a bowling line. I've spelt tongue wrong there. Yeah. It doesn't even say... It's a two-two. Yeah. Really, really. It's close enough. Why don't you just put Josh? Yeah, Josh. So we've got... That's a battery of seam bowlers. And also what it does, Stokes is your fifth seamer. Yeah. Which gives him a little bit of breathing. Well, yeah, I don't want to see Ben Stokes bowling one of those 12-over bursts.

45:58Because, as you say, if we're bowling first, which we think we will do, you're not going to see Bashir. You're not really going to see Bashir until the end of the second innings, are you? And so that means he has to come into the game more. I'm happy with that. Yeah, I'm happy with that. Yeah, I'm happy with that. Perhaps, as you say, Gus... Jax or Jax. Jax. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Good team. Right, next to England there, Phil, on the right. Can you do the Australians? One to 11. Jared, you're the chair. OK. So Australian supports Heidi. this year I guess it's the top order that's gonna be quite a strong debate number one just put Ozzy who's yes we'll definitely play who's gonna partner

46:56Who's gonna partner Ozzy Khawaja? I'm going Jag. I'm going Wetherworld. Wetherworld. The one you thought was a coat. Yeah, the coat. So minus is hundreds not moving? No, minus bets three. So where does Greenback? Yeah, he's out. Yeah, I've gone with Bo Webster at six. He's probably the best bat in the West Indies. And he's nine foot tall and can bowl. Yeah, but so can Bo. And I think if we're under pressure, if we lose four wickets and we're four for twenty or whatever, I think Bo's the guy that's going to knuckle down and actually make runs in that situation. Well, get down the bottom. Do you know that Aussies might consider not playing Nathan and you play Bo Webster and Cameron Green?

47:33It's possible. They don't usually do those sorts of things. They're not like England where England's quite flexible with their line-up. Australia's usually pretty straight down the line. You have to play. It was Jamaica, wasn't it? He didn't play the day and night where Stark, he just ripped through him with that. Well, you give Stark a pink ball, you lose. You've got two lefties, though. You've got two lefties up top. Archer gets left-handers. Yeah, but Jake takes the game on. I think you need someone that's going to come out and just take it on. I think that's an underrated thing. Australia are trying to replace David Warner.

48:07They've been doing this for like two years. Yeah, what they forgot about David Warner was what not just that he scored runs The way he did it. Yeah, and Usman bats in a certain way you need someone who's like a four We're talking about how the duck it crawly partnerships. I kind of more than the sum of its parts, right? It if you have another blocker with with Izzy, I think it can Is an absolute shoo-in? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, not for the whole series, right? Okay, so he needs to score runs early I think he needs to make some rounds, but yeah, he'll definitely start there's no no doubt that he's done I mean, they're having enough trouble finding one opener.

48:36They can't find two. For the last couple of years, Uzi's just been so consistent, taking the shine off the new ball. Even if he bats 15 overs, gets us through half the first session, that's job done. He'll do that. But he needs someone that's going to take the game on with him. And I think that's Wetherold. The average 50-odd in shield, I think he's ready to go. Hardy, where are you at? Yeah, I think Wetherold. I think he's maybe a bit more mature than Constance and I think he's got a few years to maybe develop. I think he's batting really well. He is a bit aggressive like David Warner. I feel sorry for Sam Constance.

49:14Yeah. I do. I mean, he's a young kid that got thrown in there. He had that special innings against Bumrah. They pumped him up. The pitches that that series was playing on was tough. And then he goes to... No, he misses out in Sri Lanka. Should have played him in Sri Lanka. And then he goes to the West Indies. Those pitches in the Caribbean were pathetic. Yeah. Couldn't play on those. and now every time he goes to bat, I mean, the amount of attention he's getting. So he needs a little bit of a timeout. So go on, Jake Wetherall. Wetherall. Good luck spelling it. All right, Jake. Jake. Yes. There we go.

49:46Number three. Manus. Manus or Cameron Green. Cameron Green, as Jarrod said in the West Indies, was probably the best player for Australia. Do you move Cameron or...? Is Cameron Green a number three? No. No. No. And Marnus is. But I still think, I mean, I'll defer to my selection panel here, but I think the Australians will want to keep Green at three. They've decided that he's a three at the moment. And I think that's the plan. They might change halfway through the series if it's not working. But, yeah, for this line-up we've got here, it has to be Marnus at three. Right? Yeah. All agree with that?

50:21Aussies in the crowd? Yeah. Happy with Marnus. England fans, are we happy to see Marnus at three? Yeah. Yeah, England fans, yeah. Happy with that. No, Ryan. Go Ryan. Right, Marnus at three, four picks itself. Marnis, Smith. Marnis? I just called Marnis. Smith. Five, Travis Head. I don't think that needs debate. That's the engine room for Australia. We should have made him do Labashank. Yeah. Where are we at now? Number six, so... Well, you've got Cameron Green, Bo Webster. Yeah, Bo Webster. Bo Webster. Yeah, like I said, if we're four for nothing, I think Bo Webster's going to be the bloke that steps up.

51:03He's a utility player, isn't he? He can play the traditional, but he can also go early early. And Green's been in so many positions where he's come out to bat under pressure and he hasn't done well. I just feel like he's probably got a few more years to mature, but Bo's just tried and tested out of shield cricket. Big Bo, number six. Big Bo. Big Bo, number six. Seven. I guess that picks itself with Alex Carey. Webbo, just put Webbo. Webster. There you go. Yeah. Carey at number seven. I don't think that needs a debate. Eight's a debate. Yeah. Stark. Spelling's shocking. Did you? One off. Carey, that'll do.

51:39So number eight. So Cummins is out. He's turned himself into a proper player. Oh, good player. I think they were trying to move him on, and he just kept making runs, and they couldn't drop him, and now he's almost undroppable from that side. Yeah. Really good. He's a solid member of that side now, Alex Carey, even though we're going to give him some stick. It's a good song, that. Yeah, I love it. I like that. Can we sing it on the radio? Yeah, because... Number eight. That'll be Stark. Mitchell Stark? He's added number eight before Cumin's got good with the bat, so they'll just move him back up, I assume.

52:10So I presume the next four pickups, oh, don't they, Stark, Hazelwood, Boland, Lionel? I think Hazelwood bats 11, doesn't he? Hazelwood 11. No, Lion's got to go. I mean, to be fair, they've kind of got three number 10s, I suppose. That'll concern you, wouldn't it? The Aussies, I mean, particularly if England have got pace. I mean, I was there in Brisbane a couple of years ago when Shamar just blew the Aussies away with the pace. Sorry, 9 and 10. Lyon and Boland. Lyon, Boland. But, yeah, if you've got Lyon or Boland at 9, and you've got good bowlers, especially if you've got, you know, Archer Wood and Tongue, or Tugay, then I think you've got...

52:49Tuffy. Whatever his name is there. I think you've got a real chance, right, of going through the tail, And that hasn't, you know, it wasn't that long ago that Lyon and Cummins won Australia a Test match. It's a lot shakier than that. Aussie pitches nowadays, though, that these are these fellas down here. They ain't getting too many runs. No, that's fair. Right. We've got a wild card. We're going to let both teams, England first. You're allowed to pick one player from the past that you can add to that side. Who are you picking from an England perspective? And the Aussies, you can do exactly the same.

53:24anyone in the history ever, Phil. So Bradders is in there. Bradders can play. If you want to replace Marnus with Bradders, you can. I'll throw in a name. I'd like to replace Crawley with Alistair Cook. Oh, that's a good shout. What, a little bit of glue? I want a bit of glue. You want a bit more glue? Yeah, and he scored over 700 runs in 2010-11. How about Sir Geoffrey? Sir Geoffrey? Sir Geoffrey or Alistair? Well, it's very similar. What, you don't want a Kevin Peterson? You don't need any more. I think we've got a few firecrackers in the middle. I'm happy in the middle, that engine room for England.

54:04Yeah. Gunspinner, maybe. Would you have Broader-Anderson? No? Will, you wouldn't pick Broader-Anderson? No. No? You'd make an argument for Anderson now, because the pitch is in Australia and the ball's going to help him. Underwood, Swan, Laker, someone like that. A gunspinner. A gunspinner. Would that change us? But we're not even putting one in the side there. No, but if we had a gun, if we had a world-class spinner, a world-class spinner would get in that side. Tuff Null, yeah. Tuff Null? Put yourself in. I've got a very good record in Australia. On and off the field. Right, who are we going for, England?

54:36I quite like yourself, just someone a little bit up top. Go for Cook. I want a bit of Cook at the top. 3 for Pope? Huh? 3 for Pope? Nah, nah. I don't like fielding. And a Jonathan Trotter 3? Trotty's not a bat in Australia.

54:58Let's go Cook. Cook for Crawler. An Australian, any player from the history of Test cricket. So we'll bring Bradman in for Wetherill. Yeah.

55:10No warning? Are we going to have Haydos? Hayden or Warner. We've got so many players, mate. You guys should choose for us. I don't think Ponting is... Obviously, he's a great and Marnus is not a great. But I think Wetherill to Bradman is a slight bigger upgrade than Marnus. So Marner's out? No, no, Jake's out. Oh, Jake's out for Braddus. Braddus comes in. I don't know if we can make this possible. Yeah. Even now. Even now.

55:43We're going to finish this show with predictions. So the predictions time, and it will start with who's going to be the series top run scorer? Simon, start with you. Let's go England's leading scorer. Joe Root will be England's, Australia's. Travis Head. Travis Head. See Head, number five. It's his series. Yeah, it's got to be between Root and Brooke and Head and Smith, isn't it? I think that number five for both sides is going to play a big part. When the ball gets a bit older, if you're 20 for three, it'll be a bit more difficult. But if the top order can hold for 30, 35 overs, it was a game last year in Brisbane against India where I think the Aussies were 100 for three after 30 over 35 overs and still managed to stroke it.

56:44Then six is from 35 to 80 to that second new ball. and that's where you're going to get the bulk of your runs. Absolutely. It's just whether he can keep those bounces outside off stump and not keep top-edging them. Right, come on. Leading run scorer. You're going... I'm going to take it. I'm going to take it. Harry Brook. Will? I'd say Brook, yeah. Gerard? Smith. Smith? Yeah, Travis. Heidi? Root. Rooty? For England. Oh, for overall? We won't be seeing Matthew Hayden's package then.

57:18So are we voting Root? Yeah. Overall? I think that the English top three will give Root a better start than that Australian top three will give Smith. I get the feeling you don't rate that Australian top three star. No? No. I don't think he's factoring in Bradman. Yeah, he's a good player. Brad is a good player. He changes everything. Right, top wicket taker. Who's going to play a load? Who's going to play most of the test? I think Hazel would. Hazelhoff, yeah. He won't play all five, I don't think, unless they have to play him all five, but I still think it's Hazelwood. Stark's been pretty good.

57:55Stark, Hazelwood, yeah. The hooves up the tail as well. And the pink ball. Yeah. Yeah, good shout. Nathan Lyon, he's going to get a bag, I reckon. See, that's a bit of a wild card, isn't it? Yeah. Actually, England might go so hard at Lyon. He got eight for that one game. Wait, Edgbaston, 23. Lyon, top wicket taker. Well, England will play all the tricks and the flicks. I don't think you're bowling enough to take the most wickets. Those test matches are going to be so short, it's going to be seen bowlers taking wickets everywhere. Yep. It's also going to be hard to work out who the top bowler is because both teams have so many all-rounders, right?

58:26There are going to be other guys bowling. I think as soon as the game goes into balance, like that pendulum sort of meddles out, Lyon's the guy that's going to just come and just grind it out, you know. He's going to be the guy that gets a breakthrough. He's such a key part of this. He'll get big fields as well, big fields. Yeah, you can't take him on. Big acreage. He's got 500 test wickets. Do you all go Nathan Lyon? 100%. Oh, 50%. We'll have a vote. We'll go Hazelwood or Lyon? Nothing from England. Archer? I think they're going to rotate. I don't think they'll play enough. I can't pick who the best attack is.

58:59I think Stokes might be England. The way he bowled against India. He was the best bowler. Best bowler by a mile. He'll play all five if he's fit, won't he? But he's not going to bowl more than about 20 overs a game. No, but if he gets those couple early on, he'll keep going. Tom is he can get it out of his annals. Yeah, defence science. It's his choice whether he bowls or not, and he loves just carrying on, doesn't he? Pretty sure he bowled last year with a dislocated shoulder, didn't he? Yeah. Remember, he kept running back. No one ever shows an injury better than Ben Stokes, does he? So who are we going for?

59:28I think Hazelwood got the vote, yeah. Hazelwood stroke line. Yeah, Hazelwood. All right, OK. Then we'll go Hazelwood. All right. Hazelwood. And finally, series prediction. I said two all the other day. Once Cummins was ruled out for that first game, I think it'll be 2-0. You think rain affected or you think all five days? Sydney will be rained off. It definitely is. I might be a bit biased here, but I think 3-1 England. 3-1 England. Alistair Cook said 3-1 England. Did he? Well, must be right then. LAUGHTER He's a sir. I think... 3-2 England. 3-2? What a series that'll be. I think Wokes said 3-2.

1:00:11I said 3-2. You said 2-2 on the show the other day. I was on that chair there. All right, 2-2. Jared? 5-0. 5-0. 3-2 Australia. 3-2. Heidi? 3-1 Australia. 3-1. Come on, the Barmy Army. It's got to be the reverse McGrath, isn't it? 5-0 England. And will it just get boring by the end, will it? Terribly boring. That's what England do. England do boredom well. Yeah, we're good at that, aren't we? We never take a game down to the wire. Generally always wipe the opposition out by about day three knots. Go on. Yeah, 4-0. Draw somewhere, but England to win 4-0. Whoa, come on. 4-0, there's a lot of optimism.

1:00:52And what about the rest of you? What are you all saying? 2-0. 2-0. 3-1 England. 2-0. Similar-ish. Oh, similar. Shishir, come on. What do you say? 4-1. 4-1. So England will win a Test match for the first time since 10 and 11. Yeah. Yeah? One Test. One Test match. Give us a clue which is a test match that England will win. Will it be early so we're all kind of optimistic early? Yeah, it could be the Perth, yeah, it could be Perth. Similar to last year. Yeah. Or India won. First test. Right, brilliant. That's it for our first fans debate. Thanks for all joining us. Simon, play us out. Can I play you out?

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