Ben Stokes Retires, ‘McCullum Must Go’ & Harry Brook Captain? | Stick to Cricket EP 51

0:00Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

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1:50Sir Alastair Cook: Morning, all. Morning, morning. He's been absolutely outstanding. Why, incredible. He's outstanding. All right, boy. All right, boy.

1:59Michael Vaughan: What's been happening? That's a big one, isn't it?

2:00Sir Alastair Cook: What is it? We got the most bowling points and least batting. Well, Lanks, what's the point? What are you on about? Lanks. Got the most bowling. Most bowling. Well. And least batting. So you can't bat? No. No. Well, on a few teams like that.

2:18Michael Vaughan: Got you. Got you. You focus on T20 then, don't you?

2:22Sir Alastair Cook: On the bottom of that and all. Oh, are you? Yeah, but all the big shots are back. All the big players are back. Late charge. Late charge. Absolute badger. Yeah, cricket supplies. What's that? Absolute badger. What's on the back? Cricket supplies. Need a ringer? Oh, there's a number. Need a ringer. What's a ringer? Oh, like a... Wait a minute. I'm going to ring that number now. Let's see. Give me that number. Do you know them village lads? Turn around again. I want to ring us. Do you know them village lads that we get up? This is them, isn't it? Cricket district keep. I think so. Need a ringer.

2:53Michael Vaughan: Oh, seven. Let's see what happens when we ring them. Oh, seven.

2:55Sir Alastair Cook: It's a bloke called Toby probably. One, two, eight. I think they're in Sussex. Sussex, tie the seat. I reckon he's... Let's ring them. That's me. That's my one. Use the code BUMBLE10 to 10 % off your next purchase. BUMBLE10?

3:18Michael Vaughan: Well, that's not your voice. Leave a message.

3:20Sir Alastair Cook: That's not your...

3:22Michael Vaughan: All right, yeah, Phil, leave a message. OK. OK. Well, let's just ring it. By the way, that is not your voice. It is. I did the flipping voice over for it. Thank you. Sadly, we don't have any ringers available right now.

3:33Sir Alastair Cook: Up to your mic, Phil. You have to record Bumble 10, 10 % off your next purchase. Yeah. Please leave your message after the tone. To re-record your message, press... You want socks? You want some socks? Socks? Hello, Absolute Badger. This is Phil Tufferall here. I'm after some socks and a box, if that's possible. And as for the ringer, I was just inquiring about Ben Stokes. Could you get Ben Stokes along to play for my club side? Now he hasn't got anything to do. Cheers, mate. Bye. I wonder if the ring... You didn't leave your number. Oh, bollocks. They'll have my number. They might ring us while we're on the show.

4:13Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, go on. Socks and a box. They just sent me a pair of socks, which are lovely. Are they the thick ones? Purple? No, the white, around the top of it, where you pull them up. Absolute badger it.

4:27Michael Vaughan: I've had some of them in the past.

4:28Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, they're a bit tight for my legs, because my legs swell up. You get your legs swell up, you know.

4:36Michael Vaughan: That's Harry's back, survived his festival, the download festival. The download festival.

4:41Sir Alastair Cook: And have you seen the overlap? The boys are over in the World Cup, aren't they, for the football? They're walking about, Florida and all. I saw them diving in from the highest board. Gary didn't like it. You wouldn't get me anywhere near that. No, it's a long way up. Ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What river? Why, the Hudson, innit? Is that the Hudson River? No, it weren't a river. It was a swimming pool. You're talking about the set, aren't you? Yeah, the set. What's the river? Oh, where they're showing. Is that the Hudson? Harry, where? Brooklyn Bridge.

5:12Michael Vaughan: Brooklyn Bridge. Yeah, so that is the Hudson, innit? Hudson, yeah. You're correct. Am I right? In the air.

5:18David 'Bumble' Lloyd: When do we get our away trip? We've been going on. You keep on about that, don't you?

5:22Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, you do keep on. Look, there's a discussion. Why don't we go down to the Straits of Hormuz and do a... From there. There must be a cruise ship going up down there. We can do it off a cruise ship. The Straits of Hormuz. It'll be nice this time of year. Be quiet. Be quiet. Be quiet. Must be a good charge for a cruise. Come on. stick to cricket on so yeah a couple of Q &A's we're staying so we don't talk about diving in we went you know you go on a golf trip you go to Spain and all that we went to the golf trip me mate he puts his bag down he said I'm going straight in the pool so he puts his little speed on and set off with bang straight in no water no water in the pool he's hurt himself did he ever yeah split his head open and now he played golf with a bandage all the way around his head for

6:21Michael Vaughan: three days do people still wear speedos well yeah i bet you did in the 80s i bet you did no look who

6:32Sir Alastair Cook: you play with Stuart Stuart Stuart no no sorry

6:37David 'Bumble' Lloyd: you've done an advert in Speedos well I did do an advert he's done an advert in Speedos I know he has yeah I have done I know he has yes he has

6:44Sir Alastair Cook: I have yeah Gower likes a pair of Speedos oh Gower what happened to the other old boy

6:49Michael Vaughan: I reckon it's that vintage Martin Moxon at Yorkshire he used to strutting about yeah he did yeah

6:54Sir Alastair Cook: I don't know David Bias Speedos you've got to have some front and wear a pair of Speedos what what

7:00David 'Bumble' Lloyd: it was a Was it holiday or money or insurance? Yeah, it was crude. What was it? Come on, tell us. A credit card, that's right.

7:07Sir Alastair Cook: I put it in the back of his speed. You showed it. God, images. No, no, get the video. Get the video up. I don't know whether it ever saw the light of day. No, it did. It's not coming up. Have we started this programme? I get it. Honestly, you showed it to me. I'll have to get it. It might be on my phone.

7:25Michael Vaughan: I'll have to get it to you on the phone. We played paddle, didn't we?

7:29Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah.

7:29Michael Vaughan: One of the mornings. Yeah. And Steve Finney, by the way, outstanding debut. Brilliant. Did very well. Ball by ball, brilliant. Fabulous. I was in the car a lot. He was fabulous. I'll tell you what, have you ever heard of anybody getting... So, Paddle's underarm serve, Bop, over the net. Have you ever known anybody to get the yips on an underarm serve?

7:53David 'Bumble' Lloyd: So basically, I don't play much... He's a good dog. I was his partner. I don't play much pad, obviously, and Vaughan Eaton. Who is it?

8:04Michael Vaughan: Nigel Jemson. That's it. Ex-Forest, Sheppard Wednesday striker. Yeah, yeah, Jem. Good player, good player. On my head, on my head.

8:10Sir Alastair Cook: Get him on my head.

8:10David 'Bumble' Lloyd: So I was like the most inexperienced. I was like, right, so Finny will look after me, telling me where to go, this and that. Yeah. After the fourth game, when we're 4-0 down, I saw the lead partner, I was waiting to serve, and he was trying to hit the ball against the wall himself, and he was missing it, literally missing it. The yips. Got the proper yips. And then I just saw Vaughn's shoulders going, is he on the spot? I'm in the net laughing. I had to go backhand to turn around.

8:34Sir Alastair Cook: You had to put padlock. Yeah, you did. Yeah. I've still not got a paddle court. I keep looking at it. Well, they don't just arrive. It takes a bit of time, you know. No, it's the cost of it that's the thing. You've got plenty of brass. No, no. You can't take it with you, Dave. I'm in Yorkshire. He's very careful.

8:49Michael Vaughan: Do you know when, do you know, just, I don't want to get too deep, but, you know, us three in your will, you know. Any chance, you know, just a little bit. Yeah. No.

8:59Sir Alastair Cook: What about a bat or a shirt? Yeah. I haven't got a bat or a shirt. What about your allotment? You know, some of your veggies? You can have some onions if you want. I'll bring some potatoes, even new potatoes. You've got good art. You've got some nice pieces of art that you could... No.

9:15Michael Vaughan: Shush. Thanks, buddy. Thank you. Hey, we saw it with your lad at the Oval on the pitch. He didn't even know you were there, by the way. No, I didn't know he were there either. I said to him, we'll have an umpire special later in the year and we'll get him on. You won't get much out of him. No, we'll get a few of them on. Gunnar. Gunnar, Ian Gould, Mike Burns. Pete Hartley.

9:40Sir Alastair Cook: He was good on the... I'll tell you what he did. I've got a question for you. What was it? Oh, boy, thanks. Hold on. I was doing it with Gunnar. It was the first one. Right, here you go. So if the bowler runs up and you're behind the stumps like that and you hear a noise, Nick, and the bale comes out, spins round and sits on top of the stumps, out or not out? Not out. Oh, good man, Harry. Even though it's out of the groove? Wait a minute. It's dislodged from the groove. The groove spins and sits on the stump like that, but not in the groove. What's that one all about? Come on, Omp. Come on up.

10:22Sir Alastair Cook: I'm going to consult with a guy over there, take a bit of time. And so my gut feeling is, I'm trying to remember the wording. If it comes out of the groove, which it has... Yeah, but it spins and stays. But it stays on top. I'm giving it out. I'm sorry, mate. Is he right? I can't remember what he said.

10:47Michael Vaughan: Oh, you've asked the question, you don't know the answer. I can't remember.

10:51Sir Alastair Cook: I'm sorry, mate. But Gunnar got it right. Gunnar got it right. But you can't remember what... He was panicking like you. He went... It's 40 years since I did it. Well, there you go. How did he go? And he went...

11:06Michael Vaughan: Well, about Alex Hartley, when she came on the show, she said, what was the word? The Irish team were absolutely rubbish, no chance of winning a game. Well, they nearly beat England. Yeah. And they turned over? They beat the West. Kate Cross, she said, the West Indies is the game. They'll beat the West Indies.

11:24Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:25Michael Vaughan: She got that right. Women's champ, semi-finals? Won every game. South Africa. Won every game. Have they peaked? Have they done it too easy to this stage? Have they had a hard game yet?

11:37Sir Alastair Cook: How good is South Africa?

11:39Michael Vaughan: Good. They tend to get better as the tournaments get a little bit longer. But they chalk, don't they?

11:45Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, that's... I'm not so sure the women's team. I'm going England all the way. Danny Wyatt up top has been in sparkling form. My only worries is they lose a couple early. Danny Wyatt Hodge.

11:58David 'Bumble' Lloyd: They lose a couple early. The middle order hasn't batted much, has it?

12:00Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, yeah, but still... Hasn't been needed. Hasn't been needed. Yeah, that's always... So is it better for them to have a bat? Or best win fresh? Who's the top South African players? Marozan Cap. She batted well. She got them home the other day, didn't she? And who got the 100? Brits? Brits up top Yeah very good

12:19Michael Vaughan: Oh they're strong

12:20Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah they are

12:21Michael Vaughan: Not quite Brought their A game yet

12:24Sir Alastair Cook: Nah

12:25Michael Vaughan: I think England

12:26Sir Alastair Cook: England Aussie final I reckon Yeah and I think England go all the way The Aussies Yes Home advantage mate That is going to be That's going to be kicking Have they whacked

12:34David 'Bumble' Lloyd: They haven't thrashed everyone Have they

12:36Sir Alastair Cook: The spinners are bowling nicely The shards bowling nicely Shard What's the Lauren Bell Lauren Bell The shard Nicknate the shard Is she? Because she's so tall or something. Right. Yes. I think she's got chances.

12:52Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. So just hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

13:05Michael Vaughan: I want change. I've seen enough and I care passionately about English cricket. I hate watching that. Enough is enough.

13:12David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I heard the New Zealand had stunt markup and they were laughing at me. English cricket. On our home ground, on our home ground, we're laughing at us going, what are you doing?

13:21Sir Alastair Cook: I know all the boys down the pub and everything like that, they'd give them a little bit of rope after Ozzie, but now they're thinking, what a mess.

13:27Michael Vaughan: I think Baz McCollum's a great guy, but he's not a great coach. English cricket should be aiming to be the number one team in the world, and at the minute, where are we ranked? Seventh. Seventh. Do you know Sachin?

13:38Sir Alastair Cook: I know Sachin, yeah. You keep in touch with him, there might be a job going. What, for Sachin? He's the man, isn't he? Bring him in. There's coach.

13:47David 'Bumble' Lloyd: There isn't an England cricketer who has had more impact in the biggest games than Ben Stokes and Dilliple.

13:51Michael Vaughan: Ben Stokes will be playing for Durham in the first division. Smashing it everywhere. I think he'll get a few runs, I think he'll get a couple of fifers and there'll be a clamour.

13:59David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I don't think he's coming back. I think the more people talk about it, the more he'll go, no, I'm done. He'll be missed.

14:05Michael Vaughan: Oh, blimey, he's going to be missed. Who's going to take his play? Oh, blimey, good luck. I reckon him and Botham are the best two England cricketers of all time. I mean, Bas did say he's got a load of leaders in the dressing room. But none of them can catch it.

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16:01Michael Vaughan: Right, come on, who wants to start? Ben Stokes. I feel like, yeah, I thought we were biding time. Dave.

16:07Sir Alastair Cook: You were at Trent Bridge either. I wasn't at Trent Bridge. What have you been doing? Well, I've been having a rest. I've been having a little bit of a rest, little feet up in the garden. Strength and conditioning. Listened and watched.

16:18Michael Vaughan: Rotation. Rotation. Yes, yes.

16:20Sir Alastair Cook: Listened and watched. And I must admit, I was listening to you boys in the garden and I think I was as shocked as you lot were when it came on. I mean, I'm just, hold on, I'm listening going, oh, crikey, we're going to lose this one and it's all going to be kicking off again and what's going to happen and all that kind of stuff. Because it was a big toss to win, wasn't it? You know, it got a win the toss and then you felt New Zealand, even when they had sort of like their seventh and eighth bowling attack, going to bowl us out, you fancied them bowling us out. But when he retired, I must admit, I thought someone had got it wrong.

16:55Sir Alastair Cook: I thought someone had got it wrong. Mid, just after, you know, midday, mid-spell.

17:01Michael Vaughan: 3.25.

17:01Sir Alastair Cook: 3.25? Middle of a game? Middle of a spell? Wicked next ball. Wicked next ball, well, which then just sums up the man a little bit, doesn't it? I mean, you know, but I must admit I found that a strange time.

17:14Michael Vaughan: Do you think it was 3.25 because it was 3.25 that he came in after the curfew?

17:22Sir Alastair Cook: But why? I still don't know. Why would he have? Did you get to the bottom of why DeSantis have done it then? No, I think in the morning they decided,

17:34Michael Vaughan: or maybe the previous evening, that he was going to open the batting. They felt on that pitch that when the ball got a bit older and the field got a bit tighter, it was harder to score. So the time to score would be with the new ball. So I think he thought, I'll go to the top, and what were the seven wickets down at that time when they announced? He gets obviously the eighth. And I think his team wanted him to have a guard of honour. I mean, he's earned the right for that. I mean, there's so many people saying he should have done it before, he should have done after. I just think it's personal and it's down to you.

18:04Michael Vaughan: And he's decided that he wanted it out there this afternoon with his comms team. There's no point in discussing it, it's done.

18:11Sir Alastair Cook: Well, yes, yes, but I must admit that took me by surprise. It did everybody and so he would have his reasons for that. And when he was pushed as to why, he said that will come out later. is that's not for now. Why? That's not for now. So that'll be down the line. But I come back to Geoffrey at Scarborough, Geoffrey Boycott, saying, has he got the desire? Well, in his interview, he said, I'm done. He said that a couple of times. I am done. And he looked like he... And I must admit, he did look... But then why is he done? Well, he said four years... He didn't look done at Lords.

18:49Michael Vaughan: I didn't think he looked right at Lords, Phil, I'll be honest.

18:51Sir Alastair Cook: No, you did. You said that. And I said that. I did say that. I was... Well, he looked full of beans. He looked full of beans. He looked 325.

19:02David 'Bumble' Lloyd: He was there.

19:03Sir Alastair Cook: He was there. You were there. He looked like he had been done. Well, he put a 10 over, 11 over spell in. Yeah. So to then say he's done, so I'd always look back and like Frank Sinatra, come back on team times. Would he come back? I don't think so. Would he come back? He retired from one day of cricket, didn't he? He came back for that, for the World Cup.

19:26Michael Vaughan: Ben Stokes is 7-4 with Betfair to play in the Ashes series next year. Is he really? 7-4? I just think at the minute he's absolutely knackered. He's done, he's gone. I just wonder in time when he goes back and... What did he say about playing for Durham last week? He just felt that joy again of playing cricket, which is great. I love that kind of line. And over time, I'm sure he played for Durham at the end of this season. He'll no doubt play in some franchise league in the winter. I would guess it'll be probably South Africa, maybe Australia. Australia, I'm sure, will offer him something huge for the Big Bash, which will be great for him and his family.

20:05Michael Vaughan: And I reckon he comes back next April. I'm just looking at next April, May. Some of our lads will be in the IPL, and it's always a subjective conversation. You should be here playing county cricket. Ben Stokes will be playing for Durham in the first division. Smashing it everywhere. And I think he'll get a few runs. I think he'll get a couple of fifers. and there'll be a clamour.

20:24Sir Alastair Cook: Well, if his batteries are charged up and he feels good, it's how you feel, isn't it? Do you have to retire every time you're tired then? Why don't you just say, I'm a bit tired, I want to step back? You don't have to retire, do you?

20:37David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I just think he's done. I don't think he's coming back. I think the more people talk about it, the more he'll go, no, I'm done.

20:46Sir Alastair Cook: That's what he said, I'm done, didn't he? And someone did say, oh, come on, are you coming back? He said, no, listen, I've just answered.

20:52Michael Vaughan: I just think, these Bothams, Flintoffs, they're different to us. Well, they are. They really are. Freddie retired and then he came back, didn't he, Freddie? He came back and played in the Big Bash. He played in the Big Bash.

21:05Sir Alastair Cook: He played at Langs in the final. It was a vitality last day.

21:08David 'Bumble' Lloyd: It's different a T20 franchise comeback to a five-test match. Because he wasn't tired as in physically coming into this game. He had four months off, didn't he?

21:17Sir Alastair Cook: What if he's utterly pissed off with his employers? Well... Up you. Do you think that is the case? I think that might be the case as well. I think there'll be more to come out. Yeah. From the adulation of his team, teammates, and opponents around the world, it seems significant that the board have been quiet. Yeah. Sorry, do you think then that that was something, The way he did it as well was a bit of a, you know, I'm going to do it just how I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it at 3.25 on the fourth day. Do you think that was something to do with being a bit pissed off?

21:58David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I think he hasn't just woken up and thought about it. I thought he's had four months off where he's not tired. He's come back and he hasn't enjoyed, he's felt something different. Now, whether that's to do with the fallout from the Ashes, whether that was him and McCollum not on the same him sheet and it became awkward. and then the Lord's nightclub incident was the final... He was teaching on the edge.

22:20Sir Alastair Cook: The straw that broke the camel's back.

22:22David 'Bumble' Lloyd: That'll do. That was the final push-off thing.

22:25Sir Alastair Cook: Get him on. Come and sit there. We'll try.

22:29Michael Vaughan: Have a chat with us. Have a chat with us. I'm sure he may do that. I just think that incident, when you're at that final edge of your career coming to an end in your mind and in your body, I reckon the incident was just the final push definitely because that week afterwards, to think that he's given English cricket so much and he made a mistake, whether he'll say that there wasn't a curfew or not, he went out late and it was a mistake. But he wasn't involved in it. The game was finished. The game was finished. Yeah, but in their eyes, ECB, in their eyes, he's made a mistake. In his eyes, he probably says he didn't.

23:02Michael Vaughan: So there was a fallout. But the fact that they didn't back him that week, I thought was wrong. Rob Kean and Baz McCullum, they didn't back him. And, you know, the security guard was the only witness. The only witness in the whole scenario. I don't know if there was CCTV. I've not heard that there was. Maybe there is. I've not seen it. But the security guard, I believe, pretty much said the lads were jovial. They're in good spirits and they were attacked in an unprovoked way by a Saracens rugby player. What have they done by the way? He got them out. What have they done by the way? Nothing. They've done nothing.

23:39David 'Bumble' Lloyd: They just said, what did Jamie George? Because Jamie Jordan, who's obviously Saracen's... He's now England captain on this tour, isn't he? And he just said, look, the guy's not come out of... His first time he's out of Samoa, Bright Lights of London, he's got it wrong, needs to grow up, and we'll manage him to make sure he does grow up. And he's got a slap on the wrist, and then they're taking responsibility...

23:58Michael Vaughan: If all the ECB had was the statement from the security officer... That's fair, I like that. If all they've got is that statement from one of their... I guess he's employed by the ECB, or an independent company, and he's working for the ECB. If that's all they've had, and then they've thrown Ben Rearley to the Wolves that week, I'm like, whoa.

24:17David 'Bumble' Lloyd: And then the very...

24:18Michael Vaughan: No wonder he's kind of tipped him to go, do you know... And then the very next week, you go back to Durham,

24:23David 'Bumble' Lloyd: and everyone, guess what? You've got Ben Stokes, one of the best players, England ever just come and take a count of cricket for you. What are you going to do to him? Give him a bit of love? Give him a bit of love, and guess what? He loves it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:32Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, and he came out and said that Durham said he's absolutely fine, nothing wrong. He said he's absolutely loving it.

24:37David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Yeah.

24:38Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. Well we did say on the pod didn't we? Back me or sack me? And he's sort of gone, he's done him himself.

24:44Michael Vaughan: Well I just wonder after the incident happened, I wonder if he did go I'm done. I just wonder after that and he didn't get the back he thought right that's it I'm done. And then maybe his team around him going you can't leave English cricket like this. One more game. Have one more game and maybe the legals got in to look at the contracts and it wasn't written down the curfew so he had a real point legally. and then he's gone, I'm playing at Trent Bridge. It's a mess. Fourth morning, that must have been planned for a few days at least with his team. They'll say not, but they must have been planned.

25:19David 'Bumble' Lloyd: In one way, it's sad he did it that way because on day five it would have been, imagine the queues for, say he was still batting, still two bat, and people would have loved to give him the send-off for what he's done, wouldn't they? They would have loved it. That place, there wouldn't have been an empty seat.

25:34Sir Alastair Cook: So how good is he? Oh, massive hole left. So I think that's... Don't get me on about stats. Do you want some? Him and Jack Gallis. Only two. The only two. Two 50 wickets and 7 ,000. How many stats, Dave? No, don't lose stats.

25:52Michael Vaughan: How many tests has he played? I've no idea. Just a quick thing.

25:56Sir Alastair Cook: Just a quick thing. If he'd have brought himself onto a bowl earlier, crikey, that might have been his 15th over or something. Well, in actual fact, on the third evening,

26:04Michael Vaughan: me and Sir Alistair were pulling out. Well, I haven't got much air left, but we were going nuts. On the Radcliffe Road end, right-handers back in at Brodie's end, there was cracks outside off stump. So, Zach Foulkes, balling 80mph, hitting these cracks and causing chaos. Shoy Bashir bowled nine overs on the trot from that end. I'm crying out for Ben Stokes, Gus Atkinson, to bowl. Who's this?

26:31Sir Alastair Cook: In swing, Guy Fawkes. he did a job I tell you he did a great job for him him and Freddie Sears that Chelsea lad from Chelsea yes yes department West Ham he went to West Ham Freddie Sears at one end department store with a broken knuckle I'm listening to TMS and he's bowling in swing no shit Sherlock he's bowling in swing he was bowling cuttings Down the ball.

27:04Michael Vaughan: Well, he was crying out, but Bashir bowled 9-0. So tactically, they got a few things. They got that wrong.

27:11David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Can we just quickly on that? The walkie-talkie seems a big part of the reset, isn't it? There's been a lot about Baz's walkie-talkie. There has. When does it go? I don't know, but who's he talking to? Because surely, I mean, I might not read the game very well, and I'm sure when I was captain I didn't read the game particularly well, but you do the three overs of Bashir and nothing really happens. Surely that walkie if I'm like surely they're thinking it sure that's when the walkie-talkie is then have you thought about

27:39Sir Alastair Cook: Seema maybe this end well who say that's it

27:41David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Well, I'm saying well how the team not seen that out in the middle nine overs

27:46Michael Vaughan: Forget the coach show the players are sure but what does the coach do that was surely right? So Harry Brooke Joe Root Jamie Smith They're the face your mate Guy Fawkes from one end right and they were struggling all of them the good players Surely they go back in the dressing room and they sit down and you're chatting watching your mates batting you Facing right arm over is a right hander. Because there was one ball.

28:06David 'Bumble' Lloyd: There was only one ball, wasn't there? It's a shot. There was one ball. Josh Tong.

28:09Michael Vaughan: One ball to Daryl Mitchell that third. And then Bashir came. And then the twiddly came.

28:14Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, we're like, but surely that's disgusting.

28:16Michael Vaughan: The game hasn't changed so much that those disgusts...

28:18Sir Alastair Cook: Who's a walkie-talkie to? I don't know. Well, it can't be to anybody on the field. That's not allowed. And another thing...

28:25Michael Vaughan: Down to the dugout, where the 12th men are kind of... And the young lads. It's the young lads, so I think they always have a few, No, like 12ers from Notts or the Oval.

28:33Sir Alastair Cook: Just to run a message out. Oh, that's communication. That's to do with communication. And also, surely... Send reinforcements. We're going to advance. Maureen! What did he say? He said, send reinforcements. We're going to advance.

28:50Michael Vaughan: Well, a few tributes to Ben. Sachin Tendulkar. Sachin Tendulkar. I've always admired the way that you brought energy into the game, your positivity, your fearless intent. and the way you shaped moments under pressure stood out every time you walked in. As an all-rounder, you've been one of England's finest and as a captain, your bold tactics and instinctive reading of the game added a new edge to your side. Wishing you the very best for what comes next, though knowing you, staying away from the middle might be the hardest part. Good luck with your next inning.

29:20Sir Alastair Cook: Lovely.

29:21Michael Vaughan: So Satchin's alluding to what we are kind of... You've alluded to. Well, there's more than just me. I think we're all thinking Ben Stokes, Ashes next year. And as I've said, I've said all week, whoever's a new captain, and we might have a new coach, we might have a new management, I think we should. You can't tell me by the end of, like, April, May next year, you're not going to be driving up to Durham. All of you in a little wagon. We're like the Scooby-Doo bus, aren't we? Get in there and go, Ben, come on. Any danger, please. Please. Just for everything about the team.

29:53Sir Alastair Cook: He's always been a sort of person of his convictions, though, hasn't he? You know what I mean?

29:58Michael Vaughan: Yeah, they do it differently. But I mean, it would be... Do you know Sachin?

30:01Sir Alastair Cook: I know Sachin, yeah. You keep in touch with him, there might be a job going. What, for Sachin? He's the man, isn't he? Bring him in. As coach? He finished, aren't he? He knows the game. What? What do you reckon? I don't know. He hasn't had any coaching. Well, he's obviously... Does he need the money?

30:20Michael Vaughan: Has he done any coaching? Here we go, Ben Duckett. One of the very best to do it. Thank you for your incredible memories. Thank you for giving me another opportunity and backing me. You are a once-in-a-lifetime player and we're extremely lucky to have witnessed what you've achieved in an England shirt. Thank you, Skipper. Lovely. Piers Morgan, he's tweeted.

30:40Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah.

30:41Michael Vaughan: Harsha Bogley, he said, must admit to be taken by surprise by this announcement from Ben Stokes and disappointing, as should be, when an outstanding cricketer moves on. With lots left in the tank, England will be weaker for this. I only hope he hasn't taken this decision impulsively. Mmm. That's the only thing I think. Yeah.

31:01Sir Alastair Cook: Well... I think perhaps... I think perhaps they might have done like... You can always un-retire. He's done it. Tyson Fury. How many times? Tyson. Seven. Haven't he done seven, hasn't he?

31:12David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it would be... Imagine the noise that first day he came back. Yeah. The first day of the Ashes. It might be a grand plan.

31:21Michael Vaughan: That is thinking ahead, isn't it? What, a grand plan to clear the decks and then come back? Oh, I'm not too sure. What was that?

31:29Sir Alastair Cook: Quiz question. Who's the leading run scorer in the series? Both teams. Ben Duckett. Yeah. Mitchell. Yeah, Ben Duckett. And Phillips was roundabout, but he missed the last game. Leading wicket taker. Smith. Smith. I thought you didn't like stats. Archer. Well, I don't like... I don't like keep repeating them when there's a stats man. Andy Zoltzman's fantastic. Yeah, he is. Have they said who's going to be captain? Not yet. Commentators. Don't keep reading stats out. There's a stats man who does that. Stats man. Right, on that, I'm just going to read his stats out to wind you up.

32:10Michael Vaughan: Games played 1.22, that's Tess. ODI played 1.14. T20, Ian Smith, answer it. That's Ian Smith, New Zealander. Yeah, answer it. It's on the video, Phil. Hello, Ian.

32:24David 'Bumble' Lloyd: How do you know how to work that?

32:27Michael Vaughan: Where is it? Oh, he's binned it. Oh, is he? He'll ring us back. It didn't come up in the video, it just said it is. By the way, talking to commentators. Called me a chucker. Called me a chucker. Did he? Yeah, he did, yeah. Pie chucker. 43 ODIs. Let's go. Runs in tests, 7 ,273. 3 ,463 in ODIs. 585 in T20s. Average of 34 in tests. 41 in ODIs. 21 in the T20s. Wickets, 252. So over 7 ,000 test runs and over 250 test wickets. Jack Gallis and Ben Stokes. Yeah, incredible. Headlines. The one thing that cricket, if you think about the last two weeks, and I know from the Telegraph that cricket has outdone the football because of what's happened.

33:13Michael Vaughan: The stories have been everywhere. And cricket needs Ben Stokes. It needs both of them. It needs Flintoff. Because you grab headlines. Look at this. Back pages, that's all Stokes. That's the Mirror. What's that, Bugsby? Brilliant Ben's Crazy Farewell. What's that one? That's the Metro. England's Talisman quits the international game. Which paper's that? The Independent or Guardian. Oh, boy. Yeah. Magic Mayhem as Stokes Bids Farewell to England Duty. Superman Talisman Legend. England's Talisman burnt out after Rocky times. That's the point, isn't it? Rocky times. it's ended surely not how England cricket wanted it to end.

33:56Michael Vaughan: No.

33:57Sir Alastair Cook: Surely it's got out with a bit. The vision was next year, wasn't it? Yeah. That's the vision. I mean... Yeah, but for the player himself. Yeah, exactly. Because you need the all-rounder himself. Sorry, Bob. No, I just... It's gnawing away at me, this... To retire like that, I'm done. Period of reflection. and just recharge and see where it gets you. You're going to say absolutely not.

34:22David 'Bumble' Lloyd: No, I've got to stick on one conviction. A couple of years ago, he would have batted at six and loved whatever situation, when he was at his best, batting-wise, whatever situation the team found themselves in chasing that score, he was the best at playing the situation. I've probably seen it overall, but certainly in that side by a long way. so kind of him going at the top as a bit of a kamikaze thing back a few years ago it would have been a waste but I don't reckon how much he's trusting his game as much as he is do you know what I mean it happens when you get a bit older maybe he's thinking his game isn't quite the standard he used to be

35:01Sir Alastair Cook: he was thinking just go get yourself a quick 30 or 40 I'd probably slog it up I reckon he's bowling as well as I've seen him yeah but did you know

35:08David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I always saw him as a batter who bowled

35:10Michael Vaughan: do you know what I mean he's great all rounders they have these kind of movements around their career. Maybe the movement towards the back end for Ben. He's an incredibly skilful bowler.

35:21David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Freddie's bowling.

35:23Sir Alastair Cook: And Freddie would always say, I'm a batter who bowls a bit.

35:26Michael Vaughan: Yeah. I think everyone prefers batting, don't they? All rounds of talking, Phil. They generally do. Just sum up. We all get a chance to sum up his legacy. And where do you rank him? In English cricket. He's right up there, isn't he?

35:44Sir Alastair Cook: It's right up there for moments achieved, you know, for great moments. I was thinking out in the car, like, I know maybe back in the day there wasn't as many World Cups, but there cannot be one...

35:57David 'Bumble' Lloyd: There isn't an England cricketer who has more impact, has had more impact in the biggest games than Ben Stokes and delivered. There's not, there isn't. I know Beefy delivered in the up, but he didn't win World Cups. No. And Ben's won two of them, being not out. He needed, but he didn't. one not out twice.

36:17Sir Alastair Cook: They're absolute warriors, aren't they? The three of them. I would never say he's better than him and he's better than him. Absolute warriors in what they've done for the team and for English cricket, really. I mean, I'm just that sort of bloke. Just step back, Ben. I'm with you. Step back. Just step back. Recharge. He's going to be... He's not a tub, is he?

36:41David 'Bumble' Lloyd: He might be in a month's time.

36:43Michael Vaughan: He did say on the interview with Agas after the game, Agas said, come on, Ben, in a year's time. And he said, my body won't be right for a year's time. So his body's obviously, when you think about all his injuries, he's had that many operations. Smashing the face as well. And that was his line, in a year's time, his body won't be ready for this. So it's a watch this space, but I'm with Dave. Tavis, where are you going to slide? I'm going to sit on this side. So he said definitely he won't play. I'm kind of... If that centre, Cook is there, I'm just here. I'm just thinking... I just rest watching England play.

37:25Michael Vaughan: There'll be a change in management, I'm sure, and he might go... So something else, there's so much love for him from supporters.

37:33Sir Alastair Cook: Supporters will be saying, come on, come on, one more time. Come on. I just see Ben Stokes, though, as whatever he's done, he's been really focused on it. And I think that he's the kind of guy who says,

37:50Michael Vaughan: boom, when I'm done. Phil, I'll tell you what we'll do. If England play Pakistan for three, then England go to South Africa for three. Shall we ask him? And then we go to Bangladesh. Without that all-rounder and that quality, England are going to push. It's going to be hard. So let's make a pact here that by next April, May, England are struggling and we think that Ben needs to come back. We're going to try. No, what we're going to do, we're going to do, yeah, we're going to do a campaign on stick to cricket to try and fill out Chesterly Street for a county match. How many does it hold there? 10 ,000?

38:23Michael Vaughan: Market more. We'll fill out 10 ,000 at Chesterly Street, just sing his name all day for four days to get him back. But you're right there, you've got to be so fit to do that.

38:34Sir Alastair Cook: But if he's playing for Durham, if he's playing for Durham...

38:37Michael Vaughan: We're not going to Chester if he's not playing, Phil. No, no. We'll fill out a day at county cricket. Yeah. We'll get Tim Bopp's got their CEO.

38:45Sir Alastair Cook: He'll give us three tickets, won't he? Yeah. Oh, no, no, Phil.

38:49Michael Vaughan: Yeah.

38:50Sir Alastair Cook: It was Phil and Tim.

38:51Michael Vaughan: Yeah.

38:52Sir Alastair Cook: Beef. Beef, they'll let us in, won't they?

38:54Michael Vaughan: We'll get them all. We'll get thousands there. Get all the England fans up, just singing his name. I'll have one back.

38:59David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Don't come back.

39:00Sir Alastair Cook: I want to be through to it. And we'll get him back. He'll be missed. Oh, blimey, he's going to be missed. Who's going to take his player? Go, blimey, good luck.

39:08Michael Vaughan: I reckon him and both of them are the best two England cricketers of all time.

39:13Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah.

39:13Michael Vaughan: I'm having both of them. I can't say one better. Beefy, yeah. I just think both of them, they've just had incredible careers. I put the three of them Flint off as well.

39:23Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. It was incredible. Yeah, it was. He probably didn't do it for as long. And also, captaincy. Captaincy. Surprised us all, I reckon. Surprised us all a little bit with the captaincy when he first came in. I was so impressed with his captaincy. The management of Leachie and the spinners.

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41:15Michael Vaughan: Right, who's captain him? What? Let's go. Who's going to captain England?

41:23Michael Vaughan: Well, Harry Brook is tomorrow. Huh? T20. Harry Brook, yeah, T20 captain. Correct, Sir Adam. That sounds very good. Well, he's got his nose in front, hasn't he? So he can prove his worth. You're very good at stating the bleem obvious.

41:34David 'Bumble' Lloyd: That's what he said about my commentating.

41:39Michael Vaughan: So no-one yesterday would say a person would be the captain. So McCollum says we've got a bit of time. Stoaty backed. 100%.

41:47Sir Alastair Cook: You've got something all over your forehead. I'm sorry. I've got make-up here. Thank you, Phil. No, no, no. It's black. McCollum.

41:55Michael Vaughan: Sorry, Phil. It's print. Is it off my... Yeah, it is. It's off this card. McCullum said to Aggers, my commitment to English cricket has never wavered. I firmly believe in the direction that we can take this team. I'm confident in the direction we need to go and what changes are need to be made. The enthusiasm for the job doesn't waver. That quote there, direction we need to go and what changes are needed to be made. Now, clearly...

42:20David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Was that the quote after Australia? Huh? What was the quote after Australia when they lost?

42:24Michael Vaughan: Similar? Similar. Similar. The reset's not worked. No. Because the reset has cost them their best player, the captain, the all-rounder. Can you have a reset and a reset? Can you have a re-reset? Reset the reset. Can you reset the reset?

42:43David 'Bumble' Lloyd: What's going to be the word? What is the word?

42:45Michael Vaughan: Dave, what's the word?

42:46Sir Alastair Cook: A-re-re-re-re-reset.

42:48David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Review?

42:49Michael Vaughan: Another review. We had a review in the winter. They did it internally themselves and they came back with nothing needed to change. The only thing that's changed from this set-up is the walkie-talkie. That's new, isn't it? And Emilio Gay. That's all. And then on that fourth night... Oh. Honestly, it was like going back watching the horror movie that scared the life out of you when you were a youngster. We've seen that now for four and a half years. Do you think they did it a little bit in tribute to Stokesy?

43:19David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Yeah. A little bit like... A little bit, perhaps. Like the emotion of the day and then, do you know what? he's asked us to go and be really positive if I'm going to just follow you one more time?

43:28Michael Vaughan: I think it's the coach. I think that's the coach's method. I honestly do. I think if you look at the last four and a half years under Baz McCullen, what have we had in 2023? Edgbaston strolling the game. Second in, went out and gave Nathan Lyon five wickets. Australia went 1-0 up. You go to Lourdes a few days later, Nathan Lyon stretched it off. The bounce of tactic, bowled out. We're 2-0 down because of that method. They'll say that method got them back into the game. So they draw that series. They then go to India, the 1-0 up. They also did declare, didn't they? Declared it as a match. On Joe Rooty.

44:04David 'Bumble' Lloyd: And then those extra 30 runs, you might have got them. They went to India.

44:07Michael Vaughan: They got incredible innings by Olly Pope, go 1-0 up. And then Joe Root reverse swept Jaspit Brumman. That's right. Caught third slip. Lost that series 4-1. You go back to last year against India, the Oval. 30 required, five wickets in the tank. Get it to 22 because Oton went bang, bang, 4-4. 22. All right, Wokes is not going to give you anything. So you've got four wickets left. 22. We lose the game, so we draw that series. Then you go to Australia, Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide first innings. Every time this England cricket team has been put under pressure, the only thing that they've turned to is swinging with the willow.

44:45Michael Vaughan: And that's what happened on the fourth night. And as soon as I watched that, I was quite patient with this management after the Ashes because I thought not many management survived the Ashes and it was a car crash. And also not many England team win down under. No they don't and that's fun that's why give them a little bit of rope. When I saw that on the fourth evening I went nah. We can't accept that. As ex-players in the game we can't accept our England Crete team playing like that. Did you hear

45:13David 'Bumble' Lloyd: like did you hear Emilia Gay when you walked out to bat because he came out at 6.26 so four minutes to go and I think I was announced why is he not a night watchman they asked him didn't they on the stunt mic why haven't you got a night watchman by the way he's on a pair and he's meant to be opening he's meant to be an opening he's now batting at six in his third game and he goes I wasn't allowed one and I felt he's a kid in his third game and then plays a mastery and like plays a mastery reverse sweep first ball out the rough like I mean I just sat there all the Harry Brook is Harry Brook thing I can't quite work out that.

45:53David 'Bumble' Lloyd: But the Emilia Gay bit to me was the real bit for me which shocked me. Bloke, on a pair, the worst feeling in the world being on a pair, isn't it? You get out as an opener for 0. After, by the way, the other opener's got under 50. You sit and watch there the whole game. You're basically dreading to go and bat again. Then you get pushed down the audience. You've got to wait even further. You've got four minutes to go. And then you've got to play. I bet he hasn't played a reverse sweep.

46:19Michael Vaughan: If you actually look at Emilio Gay, number one is they didn't trust him to go out. So they wanted to attack the new ball. And, you know, if you think about England over the course of the basketball era, Zach Crawley's gone out. And they love Zach Crawley because he could bash the new ball, average 30. They didn't trust Emilio Gay to go out and hit that new ball. You know, that's why the captain went to the top and then he goes to number six on his third attempt of playing for England. and you can't tell me that, you know, to play a reverse sweep first ball, that has to be a directive from the dressing room.

46:54Michael Vaughan: Yeah. It has to be. He wouldn't be thinking that. A reverse sweep on a pair first ball. In the last over the day. And what are you doing? In the last over the day. And it was that period that I watched and I went, nah, enough's enough. English cricket has got to be better than that and I've written about it. I think Baz McCullum's a great guy but he's not a great coach and for England to get to that top and that's what we should all be aiming for as ex-players and fans English cricket should be aiming to be the number one team in the world and at the minute where we ranked in the World Test Championship final?

47:30Michael Vaughan: Seventh. Seventh. There's other little bits. We've won two games in ten matches and those two wins have come at Lord's on a cesspit and then the MCG which was a two day so the only two games that we've won have been on farmers' fields.

47:45David 'Bumble' Lloyd: That can't be right. There's a couple of other little points. Like, the over-eight has not changed, right? So they've lost however many points over the period and as if they don't care. Like, if you're losing points in a championship... It's not easy, by the way, for England to win this two-year-old test championship because every cycle they had to go to Australia away or India away, which is really hard. But it is possible. But they've lost so many points. So it's like, that's not how well you play cricket. Just address that. That's just because who I think one of those it Steve Waugh said it's a real look into a side If you can't be bothered to get round quick enough Like for the over and you get punished for it and they just well They just tossed that off so they're sevens and then when Harrybrook got out and I heard the New Zealand had stump mic up and they're laughing You know on our home ground and our home ground Trembridge is one of we had some great memories there were laughing at us going what are you doing?

48:38David 'Bumble' Lloyd: and I was like yeah that's horrible like surely the ECB are seeing that we're getting laughed at by a side and we're not getting laughed at by the New Zealand side the hierarchy after third level third level I walked into sorry bum I'll get off my rant no go on I turned out to Trent Bridge I was really disappointed why was I disappointed because Jameson and Henry were out and I was like and Phillips and Phillips I was like do you know I was really looking forward to a test match of like England won the first game full strength then that instant they lost at the Oval five players strong you don't get consistency it was a bit of a so you gave them a bit of a bit of like oh well you know fine even though you should never do that because you can still find a way and I was like walked up to Trembridge drove up to Trembridge hadn't had the radio on and then you heard that Henry Jameson out and Phillips I was like just not the best two teams having a go at each other now so I've and then we still can't compete with a third thing

49:32Michael Vaughan: we've lost by 253 at the Oval yeah could say because of the change and we've lost by 160 with our best team and they've got down to Zach Foltz who's probably their eighth choice senior.

49:44David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Concussion replacement and O 'Rourke couldn't bowl really that well because of a broken finger. Sears' broken finger does his hamstring and Gus Sack and then we're looking Gus Sack and Smith played beautifully and got 75 or 80 runs on a minefield which no one could battle and never looked like getting out.

50:00Sir Alastair Cook: Well this is why I couldn't understand that morning see the tactics of it see I can understand you know because listen I'm a bit I like Brendan, you know what I mean? But when he talks after the game and everything, it sounds very well. You know, it sounds very good. But he doesn't talk in any detail. No, but then what I thought to myself afterwards was, actually, surely that tactic was wrong. Surely the tactic is to perhaps, OK, perhaps Stokes goes out there and tries to whack it around. But then move the game forward. They've got no bowlers. But he worked after it. You see off the new wall and what happens the next day is...

50:43Michael Vaughan: Do you know that the most... I don't think that was the right tactic. No, and it hasn't been the right tactic for four and a half years, Phil. We've got to be honest. It's not worked for four and a half years and they went back to the same tactic that's not worked on the evening of day four. I'll just say, Daryl Mitchell.

51:00Sir Alastair Cook: Why don't you play like Daryl Mitchell? Daryl Mitchell has got a chest full of bruises.

51:04Michael Vaughan: It's on the Swede. It's on the glove. 240 balls. Do you think, and ask yourselves now, do you think under this England management a player would ever be sent out to go and play a Daryl Mitchell innings? No.

51:20David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Do you? No chance. Talk about toughness, actually. Stokes, he opened the bang. The tactic, if you want to work, the tactic worked. Eight balls. They had five men on the fence. Knock it around. New ball. New ball. Five men on the fence chasing 370. Chaos assured. So after eight balls, what Ben Stokes and the England team had delivered, wasn't it? We both said, and we're saying, actually, I don't mind this, for one person doing it. At 50 for nought, all they had to do was knock it around. Stokes, he then played another shot, because emotionally he's probably all over the place. Then it's a chance to...

51:53David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Then you have to change. Then you've done your damage and back. Look at Conway and Latham in that 300 partnership. 11 overs after T. They scored at seven, eight runs and over.

52:02Michael Vaughan: You earn the right, don't you?

52:03David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Yes, you earn the right. So guess what? You can change tactics. They don't, do they?

52:07Michael Vaughan: I do find it ironic, Phil, that England were sent out to play a load of shots and Jacob got out playing no shot. T20 captain. T20 captain. I was like, oh, no.

52:17Sir Alastair Cook: Don't forget, they had three fit balls. Yes. I know, that's what I'm saying. So you push that forward a day. Three fit balls. You still have Brook there and everyone, and Root there and Smith there the next day. You just play for an hour. It makes me angry. Then that could, probably another one would have gone down.

52:33Michael Vaughan: I'll ask you all. It makes me sad. I want change. I've seen enough and I care passionately about English cricket. I hate watching that. And you can't tell me that the 20 ,000 aren't thinking the same. You can't tell me the millions watching on television are not watching this England team now. And as Alistair said, when you've got the opposition in your own backyard laughing at you, enough is enough. We need to move on. There's no way in a million years that this management group is maximising, and I hate using the word talent now because talent only takes you so far, and we keep saying they're a talented group of players.

53:10Michael Vaughan: Well, they keep losing. Mitchell's a talent. Correct. But this group would never, ever, ever produce a Daryl Mitchell-style player because they're not allowed to play like that. But it's the right way for Test cricket. You got asked after the game, Baggers, what is the New Zealand brand? And he just went, well, we don't have one. We just play. Now, the brand changes throughout the Test match. So, as you mentioned, Latham and Conway have to tee on day one. The brand wants to score quickly because it was there for them. Guess what it was on day four when Darren Mitchell was batting? It was dig in because this pitch is just doing a bit on my dead body.

53:45David 'Bumble' Lloyd: The crowd are on his back. Boring, boring Mitchell. And he was saying... The question I have, and for a couple of... Have this England team improved over the last two years?

53:55Sir Alastair Cook: No, they've not. They've regressed. So who's responsible for that? it's inevitable there will be change it's a results business this is a national team there will be change there has to be and where do you think the change will be I mean I'm an Elliot coach having done the job that's how it is yeah but how so you just know that's how it is

54:13Michael Vaughan: so let's just let's go through the so the hierarchy Richard Gould is the CEO Richard Thompson is the chairman Ebony Ray from Brenton is the cricket knowledge on the board Ed Smith is coming onto the board but he doesn't start until September he got appointed age ago why is he not on the board Well, he's still got something to do with the MCC, I think, his president. So he's not starting until September. The work needs to be done now. So who, in terms of at the ECB, has got the cricket nous and the cricket knowledge to go to the CEO, to go to the chair and say, enough's enough, change needs to happen?

54:46Michael Vaughan: Who's going to be that person?

54:47David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Well, doesn't it have to, if Ebony's on the... Well, she might think that they're doing a good job. Well... I don't know. It's got to be her, isn't it? I don't know. Like, who does... I just think...

54:58Michael Vaughan: I am so frustrated watching it. It's laughable, really. It's laughable. You've got Marcus North, who is now the chairman of selectors, who's a good appointment, who you've got to say that Rob Key's job is on the line. It has to be on the line. The attention to detail now, it's gone beyond us talking about it. We know they haven't had too much of it. They'll say they have. We can see clearly that it's not there. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if Rob Key goes, but that can't be the only reason why. Rob Key's kind of putting McCullum in place in his coaching team. They're not being well coached. You're telling me that if Andy Flower was in charge of this team, you're telling me that this team would be getting the results that they're getting?

55:44Michael Vaughan: Well, it may be that Rob Key will make the move,

55:48David 'Bumble' Lloyd: but it changes. That doesn't change.

55:50Sir Alastair Cook: But then again, there is people above Rob Key. But who's going to go to those above to say Rob Key's got to go? Ebony Rainford Brent.

55:57Michael Vaughan: She's the only cricket representation. You know, we've got a board of business people.

56:01David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Who is actually responsible? Who does everything? It's the CEO, isn't it? Is it the CEO? Yeah, the CEO and chair.

56:09Michael Vaughan: So it's those two. They'll be discussing it with Rob Key, but if Rob Key has to go, who's going to go to them and say Rob Key's got to go? Does the CEO not run the business?

56:19Sir Alastair Cook: Surely he's not making big decisions on cricket. What does Ebony do?

56:24Michael Vaughan: She's on the board of the ECB. She's the cricket representation and Ed Smith's joined us. So that was the change from actually the winter and the reset. The walkie-talkie was one thing and the other thing was Ed Smith. It doesn't start till September. There's no northerners on this. It's an absolute car crash.

56:39Sir Alastair Cook: Where's the northerners? Well, we've got Marcus North. My north. You can't get any more southern than him. You're absolutely right there.

56:46Michael Vaughan: You're right there. Spot on. Where is the northern kind of knowledge into this in East?

56:51Sir Alastair Cook: Where is it? I don't know. I must admit... All Northerners' knowledge.

56:54Michael Vaughan: Well, look, when English cricket's had success.

56:57Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, come on.

56:58Michael Vaughan: Huh? Flower? Well, yeah, who was the chairman? Strauss? Yeah, who was the chairman? Cook. Who was the chairman? Stick to cricket is brought to you by Betfair.

57:11Sir Alastair Cook: What you boys must have been going through up there, I don't know, but when I was sitting in my garden... What were you drinking at the time? Listening to it. I might have had a glass of rosé. Sitting there listening to it. what you as I turned it off I must admit and I think a lot of people are now thinking this now I think that the fans and I know all the boys down the pub and everything like that they'd give them a little bit of rope after Ozzy but now they're thinking what a mess they're just seeing they're seeing a mess

57:42David 'Bumble' Lloyd: it would be quite interesting

57:43Sir Alastair Cook: seeing WhatsApp groups you know what I mean and I don't know what that mess is we're all just seeing a mess I mean people like winners and if you're losing you're going to get comment and this is a day and age where you're... Not necessarily, Dave, I don't think. I think that the British public sometimes, you know what I mean, they say Australia away. I think they kind of got that, even though they were furious. So, you know, OK, sometimes you can go down and lose at Australia, but so long as you play in a fashion, you know what I mean? I think at the moment they're seeing just a shambles.

58:14Michael Vaughan: Phil, I'm telling you, the fans aren't daft. Cricket fans, I think they're a clever bunch that just understand cricket and they know what's required. And the fan will be saying, as we're saying, this method has been a great ride because we've enjoyed it. I've actually loved commentating on it because it gives you so much to talk about. So you're putting it down to a method? Well, it doesn't work, Phil. I'm just looking at the last four and a half years. We started with Basball where you come out and you're flinging your willow, you're dancing down. That was against teams that were OK.

58:46David 'Bumble' Lloyd: But you're doing it with players who knew test cricket inside out. We had senior bowlers. We had six, I would say, players who you could argue could get into some of England's very best teams.

58:56Michael Vaughan: You also had Broad, Anderson and Wokes. So you knew your bowlers were going to back everything. Root Stokes, Bairstow. So if you got more that cheap, they'd get you out of it.

59:04David 'Bumble' Lloyd: They were Root Stokes, Bairstow. That little period, Johnny Bairstow.

59:08Michael Vaughan: Wow. One of the best periods. All the England cricket fan wants is, I think they want to be entertained and they like aggressive cricket. I think that's been always the case. But they also like Sensors. They like smartness. And honestly, the vibe around the ground from Ben at 325 when it was a festival. So then Ben Stokes going out to bat and 50 for naught. It was like, here we go. This is brilliant. And then that last 50 minutes of play, I'm telling you, that was it. The fans, I went, no way.

59:40David 'Bumble' Lloyd: What about the crowd of Stokesy?

59:41Michael Vaughan: Well, yes, Stokes is doing his interview at the end. I mean, it was like being...

59:46David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Kenneworth Road.

59:47Michael Vaughan: It was like being at Kenanworth Road, being at a football ground at the end of a game when they want the board out. So they were singing, unfortunately, about Rob Key, which wasn't nice. And by the way, the word they were using is not that. But they were singing about that. They were singing about the ECB. They were singing FU to the curfew. They were singing Stokesy come back one more year. You know, so you can't kid a kid. We know what's going on. and the only way that we can move forward, and we'll look at the fair odds for the captaincy. Shall we start with that? Go on. Right, Harrybrook 1-2.

1:00:22Michael Vaughan: Joe, Root, 4-1. Little Ducky. Little Ducky's in there. Little Ducky, 13-2. Was it Little Ben, wasn't it?

1:00:27David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Little Ben.

1:00:27Michael Vaughan: No, yeah, Little Ben, Big Ben. Yeah, that was Simon, man. Good Ducky. Sam Billings, 10-1. Sir Jimmy, 12-1. Nick him from Lanks. Doing brilliantly at Lanks. Jacob, Bethel, 14s. Olly Pope, 16s. Olly Pope could come back, could he? Well, again, this year of English cricket, do you ever see them bring him back? Who does Olly Pope captain? He doesn't. Here's one for you. Here's one for you. You'll like this. Good guess. Johnny Bester.

1:00:57Sir Alastair Cook: Captain Yorkshire. Johnny Bester. What a player. Bring him in. Come on. Hamid captains Nottinghamshire. He's not got many runs this year. I know that, but he's a quality player. he captains the county champions they're up there again and he's a thoroughly decent bloke Tom Abel captain for I don't know are we bringing in a captain do you bring in a captain do you bring somebody in Abel's a decent player but where would he bat does he get in the team is he good enough to get in the team but he knows captaincy he's not captain now is he Tom Abel no no he's not but he's a well respected bloke it's just names for Betfair to have a look at.

1:01:41Sir Alastair Cook: I want to ask you two as captains, just going back to the game, you two as captains, you've got one of your best players playing the way that he is, Harry Brook. How do you deal with that as a captain? Do you know what, Dave? I'll tell you as a coach, I will isolate him and walk him round the ground. Talk to me. Talk to me. And listen. You've got to listen to what he has to say. And at the end of it all, I want more than that. I want to dam sight more than that because you're capable of it. How would you two as captain? Dave, I'd say... Hasn't scored 100.

1:02:18Michael Vaughan: The fourth morning, we arrive and New Zealand were 203 ahead, four down.

1:02:23Sir Alastair Cook: He's wasting, he's wasting.

1:02:24Michael Vaughan: And we're thinking England are going to have to chase three. We accept that. We arrive and we watch them practice and straight away I look down and by the way, the first thing is Harry Brook played great. He got 50-odd. He played beautifully, he just played it. Didn't play any expansion, still scored quick enough. Listen to it. Played beautifully. Played nice. And then he gets it from your mate Guy Fawkes, called him a beauty. Beauty. Right? He just nipped in and went away from him. Unplayable. Great boy. You can't play them, right? I arrive on the fourth morning. I think I was with Sir Alistair.

1:02:51Michael Vaughan: And I looked at the net and I went, I'll tell you what England are going to do. They're going to launch. Look at Harry's net. He had Triscothic and Geaton thrown to him and he was stepping away. He was launching. He was getting down. And I said to Aggers, I said, Aggers, let's have a sweep on the first ramp in the second innings. because England are going to get down. They'll have sat down and go, this keeper-up tactic, the only way we can overcome it is by getting down and ramp or launch it. We can't do a Daryl Mitchell and just play. Trust your technique and you work it around and you get the old bad ball and, bosh, you put it to the boundary.

1:03:22So as soon as I saw that, it was then that my mind started to trigger

1:03:26Michael Vaughan: that enough's enough because it's the easiest cop-out. It's a cop-out in coaching where you just say to your player, go on, the freedom to go and play all the strokes. It's a cop-out. It's almost saying we can't win.

1:03:38Sir Alastair Cook: It's a cop-out.

1:03:39Michael Vaughan: It's almost saying we can't win.

1:03:42Sir Alastair Cook: You're spotlighting McCollum. So what about his coaching staff under him? Do they agree with it or do they say, well, hang on? They must agree with it.

1:03:51Michael Vaughan: I think that's the problem with this group, that no-one dare challenge.

1:03:54David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Well, because, let's be honest, and again, I get on well with all those people in that dressing room, but McCollum's had whatever, he's done whatever he wants, So he's got Saldian, a really good mate of his. He's got Jean Batellian, a really good mate of his. So guess what? Really good mates don't often... Maybe it's the other way. Maybe real good mates feel as if they can really challenge him the other way, but it does seem like it's so inbred, the whole thing, that it's really hard to actually then... You need yin and yang, don't you?

1:04:29Sir Alastair Cook: Well, hence the reverse sweep from Emilio Gay. that would just not be in his sphere. First ball? Yeah, I just would not be thinking that.

1:04:40David 'Bumble' Lloyd: It's gone back to that, trying to win a game in 20 minutes and not seeing and thinking, well, do the damage. What is it? I will get ahead of the game. Well, it's like you can't... That's why I look at the hierarchy now.

1:04:53Michael Vaughan: If they're not watching that and realising now that enough's enough.

1:04:56David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I agree.

1:04:57Michael Vaughan: And when we're talking about the captaincy, I'm actually more than happy for Harry Book to captain England in Test cricket, as long as the coach changes. Yin and yang, we can't have yin and yin. And if you're bringing a... Yin and yang, we can find... Or yang and yang. Yang and yang.

1:05:11Sir Alastair Cook: We might need yang and yang. Do you remember when Graham Smith was at South Africa, they had Jennings, Keaton Jennings' dad, who was an absolute firebrand, that guy. Bringing him in? No, but that's the yin and yang. Graham Smith was a very young captain, wasn't he? Ray Jennings, I mean, absolute firebrand. Ray Jennings and the lad Keaton's the nicest bloke you could ever wish to be I've got a question for you two as well when you start your captaincy which someone will then do you have to have a fresh sort of do you have to have a can you go into somewhere that's already got a coach there sort of

1:05:48David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I suppose I went in with Flower didn't I after Strauss you can definitely I went in with Fletch oh right yes I think it's fine but the only different like Flower definitely coached differently when I started, did he with Strauss?

1:06:04Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, did he?

1:06:04David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Well, he took loads more, like, pressure off me by doing loads more, trying to ease me into it. And then he got to the, which is good. Because the coach has to react to the captain, I think. Because the captain's there, right? And if the captain's just, if the captain's a really forthright, opinionated person, like, he can't change, he's been appointed captain. So the coach then had to change his method to act with the captain. Yes. And it was the other way around. So it's a bit like I really enjoyed my two... It's quite that short of. So I had Flower, then I had Trevor Bailey. So Flower really ran it all.

1:06:39David 'Bumble' Lloyd: And then Trevor came in and after two years of doing it, I could then be a bit more myself as the leader and I took over more of it and Trevor took a backward step. And almost hard for Rooty because Rooty needed someone a little bit like Flower to start with, in my opinion, to take over him. Obviously, Trevor's so back-footed. So the coach has to adapt to the captain.

1:07:00Sir Alastair Cook: Who were your senior players? So you take over as a fresh captain from Strauss. Who were the seniors?

1:07:08David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Well, we had a fairly senior team, didn't we? Broad, Anderson, Swan, KP, Trott, Bell.

1:07:14Michael Vaughan: Yeah, that's the problem now is that... I think Harry Brook, and I'll keep saying his name, and if I was involved in English cricket, I would go straight to Andy Flower and say, what do you want? What do you want? you've been incredible for England in the past you've been incredible for RCB in the IPL in the last two years champions twice never won it before he gets in wins it two times on the try what would you need can the ECB afford to get rid of the car they can of course they can they've got a load of coin well they're wasting that much money now they've got a load of coin what would it take and if he says look it's not for me then you have to look elsewhere but I think you put a different style of coach next to Harry Brook more than happy for that ride to happen I can't have Harry and Baz McCullum in Test Match Cricket.

1:07:58Michael Vaughan: I just can't see it on that fourth evening. Honestly, whatever you can call, what will it, Ari, Baz, I don't know what the ball will be called, but it'll be more expansive than we've seen and it hasn't been this expansive. So how's it going to work being... Baz Bull Plus. Baz Bull Plus. Baz Bull on steroids. Extra. I mean, it's Test Cricket for a reason and they've been found out by teams India play good, solid Test Match Cricket. Expansive at the right time. Australia, good, solid test cricket. And now this New Zealand side, on the back of half of our team missing at the Oval, understand you're going to lose a game like that, but not by 253.

1:08:37Michael Vaughan: And then this week, to lose by 160 against that New Zealand team, I'm sorry, enough, enough. And that's after winning at Lourdes. Correct, 1-0 up. 1-0 up. And then it's just a raffle. It's the first three-match series we've lost since 2012 against South Africa. It's the first time New Zealand have won a three-match series or more. You were playing for the year. I was, yeah. 27 years, the Kiwis.

1:08:59David 'Bumble' Lloyd: This is the first game. We're still going in five years' time. Do you remember when? You can't say I was there. We were there, you were. I know.

1:09:06Sir Alastair Cook: Nobody was listening in the garden. I was there in the spirit.

1:09:10Michael Vaughan: New Zealand have now won eight of the last nine test matches away from home. That's amazing. They're a very efficient team.

1:09:16Sir Alastair Cook: They're a good side. They're efficient. Who's their coach?

1:09:22Sir Alastair Cook: Stead. No. No. Next one. Rob Walters. This is my point.

1:09:27Michael Vaughan: Best coaches in the world. On the radar. Don't know who they are. Andrew McDonald in the background.

1:09:35Sir Alastair Cook: And don't forget, Williamson retired after the day.

1:09:37Michael Vaughan: I know. We've had a fucking stinker. We've had a stinker. Absolute stinker. Where's the fun questions? I'm going to ask you, and it's just yes or no, does McCollum stay or go?

1:09:49David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Ask Taffer's first.

1:09:50Sir Alastair Cook: Does he go? Start that way.

1:09:51Michael Vaughan: Does he go? I'll start. Yes, he goes. Yeah, he's inevitable. He is inevitable, he goes. I think it's inevitable.

1:10:02David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I think so.

1:10:04Michael Vaughan: It's horrible, isn't it? I reckon that is the final nail for him when the cat is had to save. You're right, mate. And Captain Harrybrook? Or do we go Joe Root for one year to the ashes?

1:10:17Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, my God.

1:10:19Michael Vaughan: Well, I'm not... I mean, it's a car crash what we've got. It's a car crash. Can't give us a... That's the state of English cricket. That is the state that we've got ourselves in. I mean, Baz did say he's got a load of leaders in the dressing room, but none of them can captain.

1:10:36David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I think if Baz stays on as coach and they think they're tracking in the right direction, on whatever tracks they are, then Root's the only captain.

1:10:46Michael Vaughan: I agree. If Baz stays, Joe Root has to captain the test team. I totally agree. Stick to cricket. He's brought to you by Betfair.

1:10:57David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Can we have some fun questions now?

1:10:59Michael Vaughan: Yeah. By the way, just a T20 starts. Oh, yeah. A T20. Can we make a campaign on this show that we must say to the board of India and the selectors? The kid. Yeah, please. How has he not played against Ireland, our mate? Our youngster. The kid.

1:11:15David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I'm there tomorrow, so I'm driving up as a fan to make sure the 15-year-old plays. He has to play. Surely he's got to play.

1:11:21Michael Vaughan: Where's this game? It's at Durham. Old Trafford Saturday. I'm going, Dave. Been fantastic, Lancashire, with me. Can I have a few? Yeah, no problem, Mike. You can come down. Do you want a car park pass? Yeah, thank you.

1:11:35Michael Vaughan: Magnificent club. Car park pass. What are you looking at? I'm going Saturday with the club. Beautiful. Kind, aren't they? Nice gesture. Sent a message, Sal. I'm ever so sorry. I want to come and watch the kid. He's one of the players around the world that I will drive to just have that half an hour watching him bat at any chance. It sold out. It was sold out. I said, I'd buy a ticket. They said, don't worry, Michael. You bought a ticket, Mike? No, they said, come as our guest. Come as our guest. Oh, that's lovely. I like that. Yes. I like that. Fantastic. I'll be there Saturday. It starts on Wednesday, T20s and a few 50 overs.

1:12:07Michael Vaughan: What we've got here, T20s, Chesterley Street, Manchester, Nottingham, Bristol and Southampton. What's that, the 50 overs? No, that's 2020. So that'll be good starting this week. Cricket district. Got some more clips. Where's that? There he is. Ari, come and help us out with this. We've got this week's Cricket District have sent us five brilliant catches from the world of club cricket. Oh, I saw two. And it's our job. Our job. I watched two on Saturday.

1:12:38Sir Alastair Cook: Gee.

1:12:38Michael Vaughan: Where are you? Sheriff O 'Reilly? Sheriff O 'Reilly. Catching the ones from them. Fun things to know. Here we go. Bowler clip number one. It's actually called Ed Smith. I don't think it's a non-exec direct to the ECB, but this is the first one. Here we go. This is Eddie Smith.

1:12:55Sir Alastair Cook: Oh! That's a cracker. Just like the one at Sherry Foot and Bridge. Oh, he's come out the rough, that. Oh, that's a great grab.

1:13:04Michael Vaughan: That's a nice one. Catcher in number two is the bowler's dad. The bowler's dad? Bowler's dad. Yeah, it's his dad. Youngster bowling.

1:13:15Sir Alastair Cook: Nice, threw a hand up.

1:13:16Michael Vaughan: Pulled a hammy in the first. innings so it's not a bad leap for a dad he pulled the hammy in the first inning so he was in the slips so that was gun number three oh slips in a funny position where is the slip no I'm sorry number three oh that's a good one he was behind

1:13:35Sir Alastair Cook: the key saw oh dear

1:13:37Michael Vaughan: he's made a very easy catch oh that's a good grab as well he was hiding behind the key by the way that's the guy that pulled the hammy watch this one who does Who does this resemble? Who does this resemble? Strauss. Strauss? I'm going Stokes. Stokes, 215 at Chetbridge.

1:13:55David 'Bumble' Lloyd: No? No, left-handed. That was left-handed. Left-handed. But Stokes was right-handed. All right.

1:14:01Michael Vaughan: The claw. The claw. What about this for a celebration?

1:14:06Sir Alastair Cook: Look at that.

1:14:07Michael Vaughan: Action. What about this?

1:14:09Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, look at this. Has he punched it to him? He shinned it, hasn't he? Oh, he shinned it or punched it. Is that a shin in it? Or knee? Knees. Oh, right, this is knee. No, it's his shin. It's come up his shin. I've got one like that. When? Christchurch, Robin Smith jumped up at City Point, hit his boot. Yes. He's a bit cool. I've seen the picture of it.

1:14:29Michael Vaughan: He's in mid-air, isn't he? I just like that one again, because if you just look at the bowler, just look at the bowler here, just watch him celebrate. He doesn't give a care about the guy that's waxed on the shin. Look at him, he's all right.

1:14:43Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, check him out and see if he's all right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, bowlers off there. Yeah. That's the best one, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, that's the one. What a bit of one, two. Are we having that as catch of the month? Yeah.

1:14:58Michael Vaughan: The guy's broken his leg, but we'll have it as catch of the month.

1:15:00David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I watched your in the thing, in the cinema room. Oh, I like that. Sam watched it in the text. Saw you as well this week. I haven't seen yours yet. I'm looking forward to yours. That was at St Albans. Yeah, lovely. Great fun. Oh, Jesus, I found that very funny.

1:15:15Sir Alastair Cook: Isn't that a nice little cafe? Oh, lovely, yeah. That was his posh. The coffee's coming up. Oh, Lord. What about the cat and his LBWs? I know. Oh, come on.

1:15:29Michael Vaughan: You did get it a few times, didn't you? What about Athens?

1:15:33David 'Bumble' Lloyd: The Vittori. I know. NASA said, why are you leaving that? No, but then, was that ball with Mulally in your run-out the worst bit of cricket?

1:15:45Sir Alastair Cook: No, hold on. What were you doing? Come on, show us what happened. The shot. Can you do the shot? It was the shot that threw me. I couldn't compute the shot.

1:15:53David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I had to watch it three times.

1:15:55Sir Alastair Cook: I know. It was the shot, a spinning deck. What was it? I love you. I love you. Oh, my God. And I was backing up, but I was backing up. I was backing up. I was backing up. Get your back. I know. I was backing up. and the shot off a spinning deck, ball-wide of off stump, Al Malau has sort of gone like that, hasn't he? And it's gone over there. Weird, what about Eastern? Eastern, Eastern. But then I was backing up and I've sort of, as I'm backing up like that, I've seen the shot and gone, what was that? And then by the time I'd computed the shot, I thought, what was that? Oh, no. And then fell over.

1:16:41Sir Alastair Cook: Ended up.

1:16:45Michael Vaughan: Get your trackies on my knees. Phil, while we've got you, while we've got you, in your demo area, please go in your demo area. Clearly now we have to say that the England test team have a problem with the keeper stood up, 80 mile an hour, Matt Emery, Nathan Smith, Guy Fawkes, Michael Neesa. Please give them a bit of advice. What do they need to do?

1:17:10Sir Alastair Cook: Well, they keep getting... Well, for me... I think, for a start off, it traps you in your crease, doesn't it? Yeah. You know what I mean? And these boys, you like rooty and... They like to... You know, they're here, aren't they? They don't like that sort of feeling of being trapped. And also... Yeah, I breathed that. I think that they... I don't think that they've got a great forward D. I don't think they've got a great... forward defensive. I think they get a little bit like that. And the bat's a bit here. And if there's a little bit of movement, it's thumping below the knee roll. You know what I mean?

1:17:55Sir Alastair Cook: And also, they almost like to cut with, you know what I mean? They cut out the crease. They need to stay still. Back. forward D foot in there

1:18:11Michael Vaughan: by the way that's all that Daryl Mitchell did there you go those two shots that you've just played there you go it was over my day but I'm going to stare at the ball right onto the back but just to defend or there and if it bounced

1:18:23Sir Alastair Cook: oh fuck and he had a few and him he had a few and him so if the keeper's up to the quick stand outside your ground why not You're not there to miss it. No, but you wouldn't do it with a spinner. Well, I mean I used to do it. Well did you? What stand out the ground to a twiddly? Yeah, I'm gonna miss it. I ain't missing it No, but you know what? Then you got to leave it Oh, no, come on Bumble. Yeah, come on then. So I would always So I like to stand out Give us that Give us that Thank you Stand out And then first movement Is that Just that So I'm out And I'm in And I'm still in So that You don't have to Did you just fart When you put it What was that Is that you Maury Was that you Maury

1:19:23Sir Alastair Cook: What was that Is that you, Maureen? Go on. No, he's done, he's done. No, but it's the stumping, you're right. Yeah, you're missing, you're not there to miss it. But, you know... But then, so hold on, so there's a ball that you leave, but when you're at your crease, as a save... I'm not going to be at my crease. Yeah, but if you just go back and leave... Yeah, yeah.

1:19:47Michael Vaughan: No, no, he goes back with his first trigger. So are they frightened of getting stumped? Yeah, I mean, I'll say... you know, against the spinner, you'd dance down the wicket, wouldn't you? Yeah, you'd look at it. You'd use your feet, so it might be there. I can't have the ramps the right way. It can't be. They've got to trust the technique. They've got to have better technique.

1:20:03David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Obviously, like, rooty, all those runs and stuff, he's just, when he bats a little bit outside the crease, he negates that dismissal, because he can't hit him in line and still hit the stunt.

1:20:11Sir Alastair Cook: So can you take your guide a bit that way?

1:20:13David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Well, possibly, I would say to Joe, to stand a little bit more leg side, so he just lines upside differently, because when he's out the crease, when he hits him in exactly the same ball, and he does tend to, like, he sets up perfectly, and the one which nips, he just misses, hits his pad. But when he's stuck in the crease, it's like he got two unpassed calls, wasn't it, where in-line unpassed calls.

1:20:31Michael Vaughan: He hasn't been beaten on the outside edge. It's all been on the inside edge. So I agree, just bat a little bit further on the leg side.

1:20:38Sir Alastair Cook: You've got more leg side rather than a little bit more. I would go leg side.

1:20:42Michael Vaughan: I'd go leg side and just play with the bat. If it misses the inside edge, it's going to hit you on the leg side.

1:20:47David 'Bumble' Lloyd: But Batting's problem-solving, and he's solved every problem. along the way.

1:20:51Michael Vaughan: But I'll tell you something, it's been a good problem. It's been some good problems. Yeah. By the way, if you're Muhammad Abbas, Pakistan, in a few weeks' time, you're going to do the same. Is he on? Is who? I think he's back in, is he? Is he back in? Yeah, he is. Derbyshire lad. Be your ass. Yeah, and then you go next summer, the likes of Nisa, Bo Webster, probably this Fergus O 'Neill who's playing for Knots, Wobblesseam, Keeper Up. It's got to be that.

1:21:14David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I was listening to commentary

1:21:16Sir Alastair Cook: on TMS and that's exactly what you said, that you solve problems won't you? There's another problem arrived, whether it's on the short ball, so you practise that and get out of that. LBW, so I'm going to... How do I solve that problem? Constantly. Yeah, you're constantly evolving, and so they're trying to work you out, bowlers, and you're trying to negate them. And just quietly, how good was that Blondale? Yeah. Beyond the stamps was... Oh, yeah, fantastic. Carrying the win, so Blondale... I'm watching wicketkeepers in county cricket. Unbelievable. They're all following Kerry from the... Everybody's standing up.

1:21:54Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, I watched two at Chesterfield. Joe Moores, young Lancashire wicketkeeper, and Brooke Guest. Yes. They were absolutely brilliant. Stood up to the stunts, to the quakes.

1:22:09Michael Vaughan: Well, that's for another show. It's the way that Test cricket's going. You do need your best keeper if this tactic's going to stay. So that'll be for another show. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. We're finished with a couple of community questions. Who's this from? Well, this is a good one, the first one. What makes a good England cricket coach from RK?

1:22:36Sir Alastair Cook: Flexibility, you've got to be a good listener, you've got to work hand-to-hand with the captain. Not necessarily... Brings out the best of the players available. Yeah. Got to know a situation and then adapt your team to it. Very good, Phil. I think we've got good marks. I think you're going to get a call from the ECB.

1:22:59Michael Vaughan: He should be on the board. Rank these English World Cup final performances. Jeff Hurst, 66. I was with him this week. I was with Jeff Hurst this week. All right, well, rank him. The Edge. Was he at the cricket club, was he? Yeah. Was he speaking? Yeah. Oh, great. Geoff Hurst, 66. Wilkinson in 2003. Ben Stokes, 219. Oh. Who's Wilkinson? Johnny Wilkinson. Rugby, dropkick. I don't know what to do with him. I'll tell you, Ronny, but... Oh. It's got to be Geoff Hurst, hasn't it? Hattrick in the World Cup final.

1:23:35Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, Geoff. Let's go for Ben. He's just retired. Come on, we'll go for Ben. Oh, it's a tough one.

1:23:41Michael Vaughan: Geoff Hurst. Oh, Johnny. Wow. I can't have... Jeff first.

1:23:44Sir Alastair Cook: Jeff first.

1:23:45Michael Vaughan: Jeff first. Stokes. Stokes two.

1:23:48David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Johnny was just one kick, wasn't it?

1:23:49Sir Alastair Cook: Stokes two. Stokes, he was a whole knock. Jeff was a hat trick. That's a tough question. They think it's all over. It is now.

1:23:57Michael Vaughan: Still talking about it. Oh, they are. We'll finish with this one. Do the panel think there's a future in Test cricket for Sam Curran? Sam Curran to be the all-rounder to replace Ben Stokes. Well, captain.

1:24:12Sir Alastair Cook: Oh!

1:24:14Michael Vaughan: Now there's, whoever writes these, that is a good question.

1:24:17David 'Bumble' Lloyd: What about Craig Overton, suddenly jumped up this year with three or four hundreds, hasn't he?

1:24:22Michael Vaughan: Yeah, but this is the point where I mentioned Ollie Pope, right? So Ollie Pope has had an English career, at number three it didn't quite work, but five and six is dangerous. You mentioned Craig Overton, Sam Curran. Australia brought back Michael Neeser at 35. You know, Henry Nicholls is an old player really, or an older player at New Zealand. we don't seem to think that those that have had some experience in the past we're looking at it at all negative experience so we can't get them back in there well I mean

1:24:49David 'Bumble' Lloyd: something like Overton in particular Pope's done okay this year he hasn't jumped to me he hasn't jumped you've gone back to counter cricket and he's probably in that little bit I think he thinks his time's completely done so he's probably and also the bit of the cycle when you're an England player vice captain involved with everything to suddenly when you're out of the loop it mentally takes a lot of adjustment to then go again and Oli could definitely come again, but Overton to me was like, Jesus. I think that's what will happen.

1:25:14Michael Vaughan: If you have a change in management, I think the whole game gets a boost because there are players over the period of the same management group that you do, we had it, you'd have had it, you kind of put a black mark through players, don't you? They had that for us, not for us. And it's like football. As soon as a new football manager goes in, everyone goes, oh, here we go. Could get an opportunity.

1:25:31David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Sam Curran never lost too many games, did he? No.

1:25:34Michael Vaughan: Sam Curran's not a bad show.

1:25:37Sir Alastair Cook: Keeper stood up. Yeah, diddle-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee. This is Marcus North, that's his job. Marcus North, he's new to Chief Selector. No doubt he has. His job might change, then. Ooh. What do you mean by... I was just saying, he's gone in one job.

1:25:52David 'Bumble' Lloyd: What do you mean by that? I don't know.

1:25:56Michael Vaughan: Lads, I think that's it. Well done. Jeez. Well done, boys. Good show, well done. Nice job.

1:26:02Sir Alastair Cook: Well, that was just a ripple, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, sure, ain't it? Nothing much there, was it?

1:26:14Sir Alastair Cook: This has been a Global and the Overlap production.

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1:28:17Michael Vaughan: Thanks for listening and thanks to our partners, Betfair. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode. And if you want to support the show, please leave us a five-star review and help others find it too. See you next time.