Chris Woakes: Retirement Decision, Ashes Hopes & Cummins Injury | Stick to Cricket EP 18

0:00Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. Morning again. All right, all right, all right. Here we go. Rosie. Oh, I like it when it changes to sweets. Have a sit down. Wooksy. Wooksy. Wooksy. You want a strawberry? Maybe a bit. Trying to keep the weight off. Yeah. All right, OK. Did you end up having an op? No. No, I didn't. No, not in the end. Not in the end. Sided against it. Yeah, I mean, they said I could, but I was like... At 36, if you don't need to, then I won't bother, sort of thing. Where's Bumble? I mean, still, I might need it at some point, but not just yet.

0:44Dave's gone to his allotment to get you some gifts. Oh, OK, what's he doing? He's got all sorts, he comes out with... All right, Kieran. I'm good, how are you? Nice. Nice shirt. All right, thanks. Yeah. Stripes? You like your stripes, don't you? What's wrong with stripes? We'll not tell them. The stick-to-football crowd. Keno, Wrighty, Kerr, Gary, Jill, who's your favourite? Oh, my God. Who's your favourite? Well, they're not listening. Gary's the boss, isn't he? Gary's the boss. Gary over Keno. What? Gary over Keno. I'm not going to answer that. I'm not going to say. I like Jill. You'll get knocked out if you say that.

1:24Are stripes meant to make you look slim? Or what you're trying to say. Thanks, toughness. I'll take your buck down. Hey, mate, one of your home skirt guys got in touch with me. Did they? Or me army, yeah. Did they? I'm official member. Are you a part of it now? Or me army, yeah. There you go. I might be coming in February. Where you been? Oh, you'll have to let me know. I'll make sure I'm here. I'm just checking short. Where you been, coach? Getting some goodies. Needed the loo. Oh, OK, no worries. Yeah, sorry. Number one, number two. Is what, sorry? Number one. Number one. Nice jacket there, Dave.

1:58It's good, isn't it? Yeah. Trend. I've never been as smart. Never. I know. We've all gone. It's the same as chefs, but different colour, isn't it? Yeah. Well, we do. You're all the same. How come you all got a jackal about this? I like that. That's lovely. What does it say, Mike? Moral to a victory. England's moral victory tour. Is this... Does this... Hang on. Oh, love that. Look at that. England's moral victory tour, the spirit of cricket. Are you sending that to my reviews? Yeah. Alex Carey. Mate of mine's doing them. Patrick. TakeTheMic.com. Get one of these T-shirts. There's one about Johnny Walken.

2:34Is there? Yeah. Yeah, there's one about Johnny. What, they're making them? They're on sale. They're for the ashes, aren't they? I like it. Get them down in Afflecks, down in Manchester, in, you know, Afflecks, where they sell all sorts, T-shirts and stuff. Afflecks? Afflecks. Afflecks. What is it? It's a market? Is it a shop? Yeah. Like all different market stalls. Is it? I got that. I got that. A clue is. which was one of the bands. The band had it. That's the place to go. Affleck's. Up the northern quarter. The northern quarter. What's that pub crawl you do in town? You do a belter, don't you, Manchester?

3:11Temple of Convenience. Yeah. Is that where you start? I'll start at Britain's Protection, then across Peverell of the Peak, Temple of Convenience, City Arms, Circus Tavern. Yes, my mate owns it. My mate owns it. Buzz? Barry. Yeah, Big Barry. Big Barry. Yeah. He runs it, doesn't he? Smallest bar in the world, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah. And he's the biggest lad in the world. That's where Bestie used to be. How do you know him? I met him on holiday. That's him. Yeah, he does. He goes abroad, doesn't he? Yeah. He goes abroad and he loves cricket. Yeah. Loves cricket. Oh, absolutely. Barry, big salad. Which of your ten holidays a year did you meet him on?

3:50In Malaga. Malaga? Yeah, that's him. I was there with my mate. Yeah, good man. Manchester Steve. Manchester Steve. Even Big Bell. There's the grey horse, Circus Tavern, Old Monkey. Old Monkey? Terrace. Old Monkey. It's the terrace, and then round the corner, city arms. Pale Ale and everyone. Yeah, I took Brodie in to Circus Tavern. He wouldn't have fitted, would he? Well, he was very uncomfortable. He's too posh for that. Yeah, he did. He was looking round at who we were in, and he said, can we go? Can we go? He's too posh for that. Yeah. Well, Cig, nice to have you. Have you met Kieran? Yeah, briefly on the way in.

4:27Oh, Chris. Star of the football show. Oh, well done, mate. Well done. How you been, mate? Good, good. Well, I wasn't so good about six to eight weeks ago, but the shoulders on the mend and feeling better. Oh, top, mate. Good, very good. What have they done to it? Has it just been rehab? Just rehab, mate. Rehab and physio. Yeah, no op. It was an option. It was on the table, but it didn't really make sense. They could get it back to a decent level without it, so I thought I could take that route on first. if it doesn't then it's always going to the night layer describe what happened fell over dislocated my shoulder basically so it dislocated any breaks no there was no breaks and to be fair I think I got away with it within reason do you know what I mean it fully dislocated and was out for a while but kind of went back in safely and you know other than the typical damage for a dislocation I think is the way they kind of explained it did you know as soon as you touched the ground as soon as I know I wouldn't wish that pain on anyone no you took it well though We had no choice, mate.

5:27Cameras everywhere, isn't there? 30 ,000 people watching you. No, I wouldn't want that again. We talked about this. We talked about this on the show. I knew this. It's all right. It's good now. It's strong. It's the left one, isn't it? It is the left one, mate. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago. When you were walking down them stairs, we were discussing whether you were going to go this way. That's right-handed. Yeah, or that way. So I was going to go that way. Oh, you were going to go for a little... Yeah, it weren't going to be pretty, but it was going to be French cricket, mate. Try and just...

6:02And if it was short, I was just going to wear it, basically. And did you actually practice? We went down with Trez the night before. Did you? A bit hurt every time. Well, it started the normal way around. Yeah, the night before. Well, like the evening before. In the indoor school? In the indoor school, at the Oval. Went down and, you know, by this point we were just like, what are we doing? What are we doing? and he threw a couple and I tried I thought by his point I was drugged up I had so many painkillers on board and it was feeling better three days later I was like you know what actually might be alright here tried to defend one normal way round like the pain was just I was like right we need to reassess here and he was like let's try a few left handed Trez just pretty just you know nonchalant just be like yeah just hit a few left handed and the first one he threw I literally was like it's right left handed just hit I just went to bring my back down he got stuck behind my pad knocked my Hobbs out oh my god this isn't going to be were you slightly disappointed you didn't get to face one ball in hindsight now at the time absolutely not I was just so pleased they didn't have to face the ball really yeah but like in hindsight I look back on it it'd be nice to be able to face the ball as long as I kept it out yeah like hit it for four it's easy one hand it you've made a career out of that mate Leach has got the most famous one out in the history of test cricket you could have surpassed that I don't know it would have been nice wouldn't it but yeah shame we couldn't get over the line I think that's the the most disappointing thing is I've seen you go through that 2-2 7-6 7 short we were a hit away weren't we hit away from winning it we were 7 we needed 7 oh it's a moral victory absolutely moral victory another one 2-2 in 23 2-2 in 25 but you're back bowling saw it on your briefly yeah was that Edgbaston yeah it was mate I've been doing some drills for the last week or two and built up to a few paces yesterday so it felt alright I mean it does feel great but it's it's going in the right direction so yeah it's a bit stiff shall we say but yeah it's getting there it's getting there what about your hit can you I haven't hit yet but I've played golf oh well that's good that's the main thing I'm retired I can play as much golf as I want what do you play off I'm a nine you're not a nine it's official mate so you still play for Warwick yeah the plan is to for Warwick Warwick come on Warwick come on Warwick come on Warwick The plan is to, mate, yeah.

8:22So we'll see how that goes. But I'm planning on playing a decent amount of camp. Well, just like I say, a fantastic international career, mate. Thanks, mate. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. I've just noticed that you've snuck your book in, haven't you? Oh, no, no, no. I'm very advertising. That's key. Well done, mate. Good luck. Have you done a book yet, Wokes? I haven't. I haven't, yeah. Was it 11? 11? There must be a book. Well, I've been around for a few years now. There might be. There might be. Yeah? We'll see, yeah. This year or next year? Probably a bit soon to get it out this year.

8:53What would you call it? I don't know. Wooksy. That's original, isn't it? I don't know. That's got a bit of thinking on the book title, but, yeah. Have you got any ideas, Geoff? I'm not the man to talk about book titles. He's the only one there. Other end to Jimmy. Yeah, not bad. Oh, I like other end to Jimmy. I'm good with titles. Last in the Timbath. round the world in 80 pints. He's done 11. How many have you done? Seven. Catching him then. How many have you done? Three. Three. Well, there you go. I'm a long way short of 11. You've got another one coming out next year. I don't know, mate. I'll have to dredge the brain.

9:37What have you got to talk about now? It's the Ashes. The Ashes heroes. How do you think the boys are going to go down under? Can we get on to it? We'll start the show. We'll start the show. Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. So just hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

10:06What is it that makes Ben Stokes such a special captain? Aura. Aura? I thought I said Nora Nora Bloody Nora He's got a Nora The ashes It's starting to get A little bit fruity Walking out there In the cauldron Of a first test match At Perth You want to know You've got a bit Behind you But I think If you get rid of Pope now After all the build up It unsettles the team They're used to him at three The ball will bounce this high And then a few days later You go to the officers It's going to bounce this high End of the over Shoved his teeth back in Combed his hair And went down to third man Brilliant As a fan, an England fan, I don't want Stokesy bowling the long donkey overs.

10:50That's what you don't want. I'm going 3-1 England. Oh, God. Good shit. Why not? Why not? The nicest man in cricket. Have you ever told anybody to... Plenty, Bubba. Plenty. Plenty.

11:07The Ashes, it's starting to get a little bit fruity. Already, yeah. So I'm going to read you out a few quotes in the last week and we've got to react. Yeah. So the needle is started. Yeah. Dee Warner. We are playing for the Ashes and they are playing for a moral victory. Discuss. God. Broad. This is the worst Australian team since 2011. Why would you do that? Zach Crawley. Stewie. Basball winds them up. God. Gilchrist. We were playing Basball 20 years ago. I were. Which one do you want to start on? Well, I'd like to start with Gilly's one because they were playing against it. That's exactly it.

11:45And you can go about further than that. The West Indians were playing it in the 80s. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, they were. So we agree with Gilly. Yes. They had two players in there, Hayden and Gilchrist, that played that way. Slater. Ricky Plonson. Slater. Slater. You're going back before my side, Matt. You're going back before my side. Langer. Jesus. Langer. I disagree. Damien Martin. I disagree. Really? Because those players weren't playing reverse sweep to Seamert. They weren't... So that is... So basball is that. No, I think... He deemed a basball, you've got to play the reverse. No, I think that the basball thing is that they are trying to push boundaries in a different way.

12:23I just think the Australians weren't playing basball, they were just playing their natural aggressive game. I think basball has pushed that boundary further. What the Aussies... Which annoys the Australians because it wasn't their idea. Yeah, perhaps. But the Aussies, when I was playing against them, they realised with their top seven, They were that good, their top seven, Gilker's coming in bloody seven, like that, they knew that if they go out, two or three of them are going to come off. Don't worry about the other ones. And we'll go up five and over. But that's the quality of their batting.

12:54I was trying to look for some stats on partnerships, and actually it backs up what you're saying. But I'm saying their quality of their batting, right? Like Hayden, one of the all-time greats, Lang. You can get Lisp Ponting there. And this is no disrespect for Crawley. No. Little Ducky. Ducky. We like Little Ducky. We love Little Ducky. Yeah, we love Ducky. You know, they aren't in that... Proper player. They aren't in that proper player. They're not in that category yet. You have Root and Brook. So they had seven of them in absolute world-class, almost legendary status. That was top seven in Australia.

13:26So they're going to do that because they're that good. Actually, this basble is taking those players into a different sphere, I think. People like Zach Crawley just hit his first ball for four of an ashes. He had done that but he'd make down to third man I faced the first ball three times the ashes I think no twice twice first ball Paterson at Trent Bridge and might have been Hazelwood at Brisbane and not one ounce of me was walking out thinking I'm going to hit this one the first one was a bouncer wide the second one just surviving he'd have adapted wouldn't he he would have adapted he would have got down like that and rolling over and hitting it over the swoop.

14:08I've seen you do that in the summer. Bigger bat. On telly, you did a demo. I have hit... I've played reverse ramp in a test match. I was at the other end when you slog-swept a seamer at Lourdes into the mat stand. When I was batting down the middle order easy in the middle of the mat. Oh, yeah, true. It's easy to score 100 at Lourdes as well, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Something about that. So I disagree with Gilchrist's comment. You're disagreeing with the great Adam Gilchrist. Right, I like that, chef. All right, Zach Crawley. Baz Ball winds them up. I agree. I think it does, doesn't it? I think it does.

14:38I think it might a little bit. I think it tickles them. Yeah, I think it does. Well, I know it definitely did when the last time they were over here, it definitely wound them up a little bit. Nathan Lyon mentions it all the time in every press conference about there's no such thing as a basketball, there's no such thing as this. I've never seen an Australian series and an Ashes start with a captain putting cover point on the boundary from ball one. No. Never. And square leg. Yeah. Back on the boundary. And at Lord's. Never seen every single one of them was on the boundary. An old lion hobbled off.

15:09Who started moral victory? Who started that? Which individual said that's a moral victory for us? Let's Google it. I genuinely don't know where it started. I don't know where it started. I'm not even sure it came from a player. I didn't say it. Did I on the radio? I don't think so. Well, it's you, is it? Put it down to the cat. It's a good one. Who? There was a Harry Brook. Was it really? Obviously, what did he say back then? He said England players, I'm just quoting this, England players such as, that probably means another, such as Harry Brook, joke that they'd won the moral ashes. So it was Harry Brook.

15:52What does it sort of mean? I don't know. I don't know. What does it mean, Wokesy? I still don't know myself. I have no idea. I think it's just been blown out of proportion, hasn't it? I think it's come from an interview being asked about a moral victory and someone's probably agreed to it and said, yeah, yeah. I'll go down a bit further since. It was quite funny watching old David Warner say it, though, wasn't it? Yes. He didn't get much of a reaction, did he? I mean, David Warner started it off about the ski board. Surfboard. Surfboard. Ski board. Ski board. What's that called? What is that called?

16:27Surfboard. No, no. Snowboard. Snowboard. Snowboard. He said he's got to get the surfboard off his front leg. Yeah. He must have been... That's Joe Root, yeah? Yeah, but... LB double D, yeah? He's done by Root, yeah. Yeah. It's not saying that. Are you working... Is Warner working for you? He's working for Fox, yeah. Oh. Yeah, he'll be on there. Brodie's on Channel 7. Yeah. Warner's on Fox, so he'll be... No, he'll go on for the whole series. Do you know what a moral victory is? What does it mean? Moral victory is that it's a draw, but we had the upper hand. Yeah. You might have used that, Bumble.

17:01I've never. Won't bring me into it. I'm in enough bother. Right, so we agree with that. Zach Crawley, Bas Boll winds them up. We agree with that. Yeah, I think it does. So David Warner, we are playing for the Ashes and they are playing for a moral victory. That's nonsense, that, isn't it? Yeah, I disagree. We're not agreeing with Davey. Stuart Broad, I think this might take a bit of time. This is the worst Australia team since 2010-11. That will be up on the wall. The worst. Let's go through. 2011, they were going through transition. It's not like Stu to make it. 2013. That was not planned. 13-15 we won.

17:44We won in 13 and then beat 5-0. It was that weird year, wasn't it, when you played two? Yeah, it was. But I'm just going back to 2011. It wasn't a bad Australian side. They just, I mean, I think the only, Watson, Cattage, Ponting, Clark, Hussey. Jeez. North, Haddon, Johnson, Harris. Harris got into it. Horace played. No, Doherty. Doherty, Beer. Xavier. Hilfen, House. Doug the rug. Use the facility. I mean, they're still good players. That was my glory. His other quote was. That was my only time I was any good and he's saying they're rubbish. Yeah, so he's saying it's the worst since 2011, right?

18:2510-11 Aussie. And he said it's the best England team since 10-11. Be careful. And I'm saying, wait, that is nonsense. An England team won in India in 2012. That England team was proper, wasn't it? Yeah. You'd built to that point to be number one in the world. I suppose we beat them 3-1 or 3-0 in 13. Yeah. And then obviously fell apart six months later. You won in 15 as well, didn't you? Yeah, that was a different team. That was a totally different team. We had Alan Lamb and Gladstone Small on and can't bat, can't ball, can't feel. England won the series 2-0. Be careful with stuff like that. What context did Rory say that in?

19:08Because that's like, has it just been clip-baited? No, no, no. He stated that this is the worst Australian team since 2011. It's the best England team. Did he say Australia were still clear favourites though? I think he did in terms of the fact that the pressure's on them to win at home in their conditions. Well, hold on a minute. They've just been in the World Test Championship, haven't they? Twice. Well, they lost to South Africa and they won the previous one. I know it's a different format, but they're the world champions. They won a World Cup in India. They're pretty good. You'll know this.

19:43How many matches is the captain going to miss, Cummings? Well, he's definitely not starting. and I'll ask the bowler, a stress fracture, it's not good, is it? No, it's not. You're not suddenly going to get a massage and go, all right, you're right to play. That is time. And if there's any slight hot spot, no chance. I think if he comes back into the ashes and feels it at all, that'll be him, done with it. It's not also just the back, isn't it? You'll know now, you haven't bowled for ages, have you? Suddenly the first time you come back and bowl, everything hurts. And then you've got your other body, the other muscles match hard, haven't you?

20:18I think Bax as a bowler is the worst thing. Go on, another one. He's got another one. He's got another body. Just walk in. Get the other body for me, will you? I don't know. That's important as well. It's not just the mouth. And there's talk about he doesn't need a gallop, so to speak. But there's an element of needing some cricket beforehand and overs under your belt. And trying to build up from a stress fracture is tough. But Mark Wood doesn't think that bowler's overs, does he? He's a bit different. He doesn't. But then at the same time, he'll need enough within practice time. I also feel like going into an Ashes series, walking out there in the cauldron of a first test match at Perth, you want to know you've got a bit behind you.

20:55I'm not saying nothing. Obviously, there's players that need more than others, but he'll be working behind the scenes to make sure he's got it. I actually was there for the first test in Perth last year against India, and the Aussies and Pat had not done anything. Even though he wasn't injured or he didn't have any problems, he was short of a gallop that first week. and that is with cricket. He hasn't played cricket for months. So what are we going to prepare for that first text? Just playing against each other. The Lions versus the main team. Is that it? The one concern I thought about the other day, and I didn't realise this until last week, that game amongst England against the Lions, I thought it was going to be at the WACA, which I thought I can deal with that.

21:37Because Ian Botham's come out with a comment about the preparation being ridiculous, not playing enough games. I'm not in that school of thought. I'm not either. My school of thought was, oh, it'll be fine because they're going to play a three-day at the WACA, which is exactly the same as the Optus. It's the same pitch. India last year prepared for their series with a two-day game at the WACA, moved over the road, over the river. They were absolutely fine. The three-day game's at Lilac Hill. It doesn't bounce above our knees. Not really. Now, that's my concern, that they're going to play a warm-up game, which should be competitive.

22:09But the ball will bounce this high. and then a few days later you go to the options, it's going to bounce this high. They might not have been allowed to. That could be an Australian. Well, what they've done is they've put a state game there that week. That's the beauty of home conditions and home advantage. You can do what you want, really. And they're all snick off pitches early doors. Well, I don't know if you keep a bit of a grip on the state game, but there's no one scoring any runs. Are we dropping into the Emirates at all and having a knock-up before we go or not? Play what more? Play Arsenal?

22:40Oh, no, no, the Emirates. Well, Arteta's team are going well, but how are they going to prepare them? Dubai. They'll knock up. Did they drop a... They're in New Zealand. No, they're in Loughborough in the tent with the... They've all gone out. They've all gone out early, haven't they? Like, I was speaking to Gus Axe. He's left. Has he left already? They've gone to New Zealand. Yeah, but all the other ones have gone as well. All the guys who weren't even that ODI squad. I don't think... They may have gone already, but if they aren't, they'll be going very soon. I know Gus went. They're staying at Bilbrook, the golf resort.

23:09I think you'd have done it on your trip with Baz. Yes, with the Millbrook. Yeah, lovely. That's gorgeous. Lovely coach. Yeah, suits my fade. Stick to cricket is brought to you by Betfair. I was talking to Gus Atkinson's dad the other day. Oh, great guy. Lovely head. In Hong Kong? He's in Hong Kong. Oh, you were in Hong Kong? No, I wasn't in Hong Kong. Oh, why were you talking to him? On the phone? He was telephoned. Do you not have a phone? You not have one? I'll show you what it... I'm one of them. I thought he was in Hong Kong, by the way. There you go. So obviously, what happened at the Oval?

23:51Yep. You were clearly still planning on going down under. Yeah, well, within reason, I still obviously didn't know on selection, but I was hopeful that I'd get the nod. Obviously, the shoulder happens, and then I suppose you realise then, as soon as the shoulder happened, realistically, it was never going to happen. but prior to that I was hoping that I could make the squad and be a part of obviously one more trip down under and hopefully I think the lads have got the best chance they've had since 10-11 so it would have been great to be a part of it obviously it's not happened but I think great chance mate honestly really do think we've got a great opportunity to win there What do you think I mean you've been in and around the camp for years now what gives you that belief is it that the Aussies are now rubbish like Stuart yeah I won't say that you've got so much confidence within the group that you can go and do something very special.

24:40Yeah, I think it also feels like the team's been building in the right direction over the last few years. I think we haven't got over the line in big series, so I can see why people have still got their doubts. You know, we've drew 2-2 with both Australia and India at home, and you'd like to think we'd have got over the line in one of those series. But it just feels like the team's evolved a little bit. You know, obviously we came out and it was this Baz Bull sort of crash-bang wallop. You can say that now, can't you? Yeah, no, exactly, yeah. But I still don't like that saying, and I know Baz doesn't, but it kind of, the game, it feels like the team's evolved to figure out how the best way to play now.

25:15It's still a part of that, still using the aggressive approach, but it's being able to absorb pressure when we need to, whereas before it was kind of like the only way is attack. And I feel like now they've developed a way to kind of get around that, and it's not just all about the scoops and the cracking balls for four first, ball of an ashy series and stuff like that. Yeah, and basball, it's still about bowling, isn't it, as well? Basball, we all think it's about the batting, isn't it? But that aggression is with the ball in hand as well. Yeah, and I think at the beginning as well, it was all about how aggressive can we set our fields, whereas now I think it's kind of changed where it's kind of like, let's work to the conditions, work to the situation, work to who's down the other end and kind of figure out.

26:01And Ben's always going to look to be on the front foot, look to be aggressive as a captain and set those more aggressive feels. But I think there's more of a tactical side to how they go about it now, a bit more thought process that goes into it. How do you reckon they're going to handle the bowlers? I look at that bowling attack. Our bowling attack. Because I think if you've got the seven bowlers there, all of them, if they're operating at their elite level, their pace is high. I think they've got a really good chance of bowling attack to get their 20 wickets. If they're operating a little bit lower, and I use Atkinson as an example, If he's bowling 83, 84 mile an hour, he's nowhere near as effective as he was, as he is, when he's fresher in 87, 88.

26:39Have you been, like, privy to any conversations, any thoughts about how they're going to manage that? No, I haven't, but, I mean, I totally agree. They've got to keep, in some way, shape or form, keep everyone fit. And that's not just being fit and on the park, is it? It's being, like, not tired, not fatigued. So, like, the thought of someone playing all five is going to be hard work. We saw last summer Gus, by the back end of the summer, like you said, probably just dipped off a little bit. It's his first full test summer, so it's going to take a bit out of him. But you want these guys fresh, so if they play three or four tops...

27:10It's not easy, is it? It's not easy, yeah. Also, you win a game, for instance, and you're like, right, we could win the series here. You then go with your two main guys, and then you don't win the test match. There's a gap, isn't there? The first gap between first and second, so you could probably play your best bowlers in the first and second if you wanted to. but then to leave someone out just before in the third game, it's a hard mentality. One of my concerns is... Before they have Joff or Woody playing a test match at every point, I think. The one concern I have, Wokes, and I'm not saying it because you're sat here, your style of bowling now in Australia would be a lot more threatening potentially in the last time you've been.

27:48Surely that's Gus Atkinson's going to do that. And that's what I said about the bounce at Lilac Hill. It's not just about getting the bounce as a batter, but it's that length that you have to bowl as a bowler. that full of length that you're going to have to bowl. Do you think they will prepare those pitches though? Yeah, they have to. Perth, Perth, they can't change it. It will bounce. You can have less grass on it, surely. It's not grass, it's just rock hard. You can have a word with Keese. Pink ball's the third one, isn't it? Reverse the retirement. Yeah, I generally do. All the pace is great.

28:12You know, you can, but you're going to need someone to hit the top of our stump. What's our attack for Perth? So, Smith's at seven. Yeah. Right? Who's eight, nine, ten, eleven? Who's eight, nine, ten, eleven? Will Jacks is going to play at eight. I'm playing jacks at eight. Do you need a spinner? You've been there. I know it's so hard. Well, it was 9-10-11 then. It's so hard, obviously, without being at the pitch. And if it's hot, it's 45 degrees. Without the record. Yeah. You know, with the... I'm going to... Are you playing a spinner? Oh, I'd like to... Are you playing a spinner? Yeah, I am, yeah.

28:42Well, you're playing jacks, aren't you? I'm playing jacks, yeah. But you said... How many overs did Lionball play? No, would you... I think they've put that much into battle. I mean, I don't know the conditions at Perth like I know Edgbaston, but, you know, I think England like to go in with a spinner. Right. From what I've been in, you know, Bash has been given that sort of role over the last couple of years and they've got enough test matches into him that I think they'll go Bash. Because I think they like him, they like what he does, they like that he gives you a bit of, you know, can go up, can go flat, rather than just, you know, one pace.

29:17And I think they've put that much into him that they're willing to give him. Unless it's just no spin. In the series, he'll come in for me, but if I'm Australian and I see Bashir bowling in Perth I am delighted. That's my honest from what I've seen in Perth over the last few years so Washington Sundar for Indy he bowled nine overs and it was just because Bummer was blowing them away and if you get your seam quartet right I mean you're saying potentially go with five seamen which could be right because Ben wouldn't have to bowl as much. On that side I'm just saying how much I hate going without a spinner I hate it because as a captain you just want something different to change.

29:52And all this talk about the pace of Archer Wood, I'm just going to blow Australia away. That's not going to happen. Tongue? Tongue. They're too good a play. They're not going to blow them away for 60. They're not scared. Exactly, they're not scared. It's nice to have, but it's not scared. So they're going to have to bowl some overs. You know, heavy overs. Keep coming in that heat. It's hard work as well. Exactly. It's not easy. But if it's only a two and a half day game, because that's what happened last couple of times at Perth, then you don't need to stop. It's not a five day wicket, Perth. So if you've got seven, Smith, eight, nine, Atkinson-Karys Kais Atkinson I don't think Kars plays the first week Okay For me He strengthens your batting Yeah But They like a long batting line My Tong has to play Tong 10 Archer 11 Okay What rest would Yeah yeah yeah They're going to Are they not going to Alternate them two Yeah Are they not going to Alternate I think so So then You know We're picking a team Yeah You've just said that, Olly Pope, you're not vice-captain.

30:55Harry Brooks, vice-captain. Who's going to back three? Pope plays. Pope 100 % plays. I saw your comments, yeah. I just can't see why you would drop him now. They put a lot of faith into him, and he has played some extraordinarily good innings for England. Why have they dropped him as vice-captain? Just because they think that Harry Brooks is a better option as a captain if Stokes, he gets injured. But I think if you get rid of Pope now, after all the build-up, it unsettles the team. They're used to him at three. And then if you want, Bethel has a stinker, hope he doesn't if he does, you've dropped someone whose confidence is now, God, I'm out of it.

31:29If you believe in your group that you've got someone special and if he goes to New Zealand, Jacob, and carries on with the format, so again... White ball. I know it's white ball, but again, I'll go back to my time. We threw Peterson into a series just on the back of what he did in a white ball, so we went, we just need him here. But he'd scored 100. He's far too good. He'd played counter cricket for three years. He had, but you just know when you've got someone special. I mean, Wokes, you've been in the group with Jacob. I haven't seen him first-hand. I've seen him, obviously, on the telly. I've been at the grounds.

32:01He clearly can play. But from all the messages around the England, they clearly feel... I mean, he's the captain of the T20s. Yeah, yeah. They clearly feel that he's got something very, very special. It's a lot to be given, isn't it, as a young player that's not played a huge amount of international cricket already to be able to be given that responsibility. and everyone that's been around with Beth knows that he's got that. It's hard to exactly say what it is, but he handles himself well as such a young lad. Nothing really seems to faze him and he seems to have an old head on young shoulders and I think there's no doubt he's going to be a very good player for England.

32:37I genuinely believe that. Obviously, I've seen him at Warwickshire develop over the last few years as well. He's certainly improving day by day, year by year. I actually sit in probably Cookies Camp I'd be surprised if they changed that make-up to start with and give Pope the chance to carry on as the number three then you go the other way if it doesn't work I completely go where you're coming from and also if you go to the KP I see where they were but KP had such a record behind him he did and Bethel is but he hasn't got he doesn't in my opinion doesn't quite understand Red Bull cricket as well as he knows his White Bull cricket so I just think it's not a risk worth taking how much How much would...

33:21How many do you want your number three to average? To win a... Your number three has got to average over 40, hasn't it? It's going to make an impactful inning draw, too. Well, there you go. Yeah, there you go. I think a little bit about they might go with Bethel. is for that, and a little bit of spin as well, could be a little bit of spin in there. He could play that inning. I think... But then so could Oli. Phil, if you look at this England team, the one thing that they kind of, in my view, ripped up is averages. Look at Zach at the top of the year. He averages 30. You know, if you go to our team, he averages 30.

33:59You're not playing. But what they pick a player like Crawley and a Pope or Jacob, is that they believe if they have 10 innings in the series, they can create a momentum shift for the team in three or four of those innings. Correct. And it might be a 35 runs that you just go out and change the momentum of the game. That's what this team's about. Yeah, but I don't think like... In fact, players that can win you games of cricket on their own. Yeah. But I think for England to win this series, the only time we've won, obviously since I've been around, was when we scored loads of runs. That's when they were rubbish.

34:32Rubbish, didn't count. Didn't count as well. So, you know, those top seven, I think in that, where we won 10-11, everyone apart from Collie got 100. and, you know, so I know it's obvious, but for England to have any chance, you're going to need... Rands. You need Crawley. Crawley at some stage is going to have to get a big 100. Yeah, you too. Duckett's going to have to get a big 100. Rooty's going to have to get 100. I honestly think the currency over there has changed. I think back in 500... No, it's 2-1. 450 used to be the norm, didn't it? First in Australia, you had to get... I honestly think if England get 300 consistently, they're going to win.

35:09Do you not think they've then missed the trick not taking Sam Cook and another seam to cover that? I wanted a Wozzi-style bowler there. The Cookerborough ball's different. I don't want Stokesy, as a fan, an England fan, I don't want Stokesy bowling the long donkey overs. That's what you don't want. I think you probably do need a guy that can do that. But then maybe they're looking at Gus that can bowl the longest balls, which he can. Gus at 85, 87. But he's not a pitch-up. Gus isn't a pitch-up nipper. but he's a hit the pitch. He's not a... He's accurate. Yeah, but he's not a bringing someone forward, pushing them off defensively.

35:46That's my concern. Real tag, they don't have that presser. How mad is it? That's the first time of ever thinking of going to Australia. You can't go to Australia, people pitch up and... It's a different Australia now. The cooker roll's completely different. Pitches are different. Mental. Well, Sheffield Shield at the minute. There's no one scoring a run. Marnes has got four in five innings. He's the only one that's standing out. The rest is 250, kind of. 42 overs for one wicket at the WACA. I think they've changed since then. Oh, yeah, they've definitely changed. You've missed out, I'm afraid.

36:15Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. How are you going to be sat at home watching? I know you're going to divide to play a bit of cricket, but it's been the first time, really, as an ex-international that you've turned the telly on, what, 2 o 'clock in the morning. I presume you'll be up to watch. Yeah, I will. I will I suppose that's when it might actually hit home a little bit and sink in a little bit more I think at the minute I'm feeling really good really content with the decision pleased with everything that's going on but yeah I suppose when England next play Test Series is a huge moment like that ashes down under you want to be a part of it don't you and I think it might sink in then but as I sit here now I feel great I feel real content almost no relief really relief Karma.

37:03Yeah, it feels good to be sat on the other side of the fence. That's nice. It's happened quick though, hasn't it? I mean, that's what I'm like, I suppose, only looking back on my retirement. It's like, kind of my decision, and I knew it was coming. Actually, for you, it was a dive done, probably walking off thinking, almost done here. Yeah, there was part of that. And that's a big change, isn't it? Yeah, it is. And I suppose maybe that hasn't quite sunk in yet and how quick I've made the decision and things like that. But, you know, I've spoke to the people close to me, family, friends and stuff, and it feels the right time and the right decision.

37:38I was definitely having thoughts this summer about, with Australia coming up, I was like, am I going to be picked? Aren't I going to be picked? And then naturally, you think about the next cycle of if you don't go down on that tour, by next summer, you're thinking about 27 Ashes. Am I going to make it to 27 Ashes? Probably not. How old are you now? 36. I'll be 37 by summer. Did you chat with Keezy at all? Yeah. I had a chat with Keezy. Yeah, I had a chat with him. We communicated a couple of times prior to the selection for the Ashes. And it was always looking unlikely with the shoulder and I was never really going to make it in terms of fitness point of view.

38:16So I was pointing two and two together. It was pretty clear that I wasn't going to make it. And what are the plans now? I mean, you mentioned Dubai. Yeah. You mentioned playing for the Bears next summer. Warwick. Warwick. Warwick. Come on, Warwick. Come on, Warwick. so you play for the Warwick all these franchise leagues around the world the 100 are you going to put your what's the name there yeah it's the plan I mean the body feels great other than the shoulder I actually feel as the summer went on throughout a tough five match series obviously I played all of them I was feeling like I was getting better as the series went on we talk about getting a gallop I'm certainly one of those that's better for the gallop so keen to play as much as I can within reason try and play some franchise stuff and we'll see where it goes but yeah looking forward to hopefully kicking on for another year or two.

39:01We'll see how it goes. What do you do at all? Do you like cooking? Do you do the cooking? I'm not a cook. Hey, what's up? I'm not a cook. I'm not a chef. Hey, do you want to do any baking? Dave. Not really. I mean, I like cakes, but I don't generally bake. What have you got for us, Bumble? Well, we always give a present to people who come in and give the time. So I brought you some baking apples. Apples, nice. Yeah, they're lovely. The cookers are them. So, you know, I'll have them with our very best regards. Lovely. You know what? My youngest loves apple crumble, so... Well, and there's apple pie as well.

39:36Yeah. Short crust pastry you want. Lovely. Margarine and plain flour. Yeah, father-in-law does a great... You've got to knead. Yeah. Knead it, knead it, knead it. And when you think you've kneaded it again, you've got to do a lot of kneading. Your allotment is... Yes, yeah, those are your allotments. Fantastic. Cheers, Bumble. Can you? No, those are bakers. They have to be baked first. When was the last time you made an apple? apple pie this week? No, you just didn't. I did. You've been in Valderrama. I got home from Valderrama on, when? Last Thursday. That's the first thing you did when you put the suitcase on.

40:13It's amazing. Apple pie, you just put it and sort of crimp it around the edge. Just put a couple of little cuts on the front. You put your nice little pastry on top. Cinnamon. I don't do cinnamon. Do you egg it? Do you put the old thing on top? Put some egg, just brush a bit of egg on top. Or milk. Or milk. There you go. Lovely. Stick to cricket is brought to you by Betfair. So according to the Betfair exchange, England's chances of winning the Ashes have gone up from 27 % to 34 % following the Pat Cummings injury news breaking. What's the odds? That's the highest probability. Three, two, one.

40:55Well, it's the highest probability Ben Stokes' side have had all year. Cummins out the first test. Let's change your predictions. I said 3-1 Australia. I'm now going 2-0. I'm going for 2-2. There's always one washed out in there. I'm going Sydney. I'm going 2-0. I'm going 3-1 England. Oh, gosh. Why not? I like it. I've got to back the boys. 3-2 England. No washout. 3-2. It's a classic. Yeah. Not going to be many draws, are they? We don't do things straightforward under Baz and Ben, do we? No. 3-2. 5-0 England. 5-0. Go on, coach. Yes. 5-0. Just a easy... Love that bubble. Yeah, 5-0. Yeah. Well, we're the best team that's been, and they're the worst, though.

41:44Sort of Stuart Broad. I'm going with Stuart Broad. Very, very dangerous. But I'm a punter, I've told you. 5-0, you'll get great odds on that. You'll get great odds. You're not surprised? Well, no, yeah, I'm not surprised you would get good odds off. Away from home. I'll take a tenner off you now, actually. Never been done before. Never been done before. There's always a first time. I'll take a tenner off you now. Are you going to stand it? I'll stand it. You're going to stand it, all right. Right, well, so we'll finish with some community questions. OK. First one, to yourself. What is it that makes Ben Stokes such a special captain?

42:24Aura. He's got an aura about him. The way he plays the game, he's a captain that talks about how he wants his team to play but then delivers with his own actions. I think as a leader, if you don't do that, you're up against it straight away. He sticks to that, sticks to his guns, commits to his players. What's he doing? Aura? I thought he said an aura. An aura. Bloody aura. He's got an aura.

42:52Aura. Aura bumble, yeah. Sorry. Get one of them trumpets. It's the Brummie accent, mate, sorry. So, yeah, but also just the way he goes about his cricket, isn't it? He wants his team to play the way he plays. He's an X-factor cricketer. He's one of our greats. And him with Baz, they just complement each other really well, the way they go about things. I think that everyone talks about them both being kind of like, you know, Baz ball and being aggressive and being, you know, on the front foot all the time. but they've also got this side to them where they're emotionally intelligent and how they deal with their players and man management.

43:28So a lot of that comes into it, I think, off the field rather than just on it. Very good. Bumble, one for you. From Darren in Congleton. With a recent sad passing of Ken Shuttleworth. Yes. What fond memories do you have? Well, I started at Lanks in the 60s with Ken Shuttleworth and I've never, ever forgotten this at Old Trafford. And he turned up, he played for St. Alan's Rex and he didn't have a Lancashire sweater. He had St. Ellen's Rex, which had a green board around it. And he was quick. He got good pace. Won the Ashes in 71 under Railingworth. Got 5.47 in that first Test match. But in that first game at Lancs, I've never, ever seen anything like this on a cricket pitch.

44:14He took his sweater off to give to the umpire, took his teeth out, gave them to the umpire, Because in his back pocket, I'd give him his comb. Down to the end of the over, he shoved his teeth back in, combed his hair and went down to third man. Brilliant. Because he's 60s, so why did he do that? And he had the Elvis Presley look. His hair were Elvis Presley. Yeah, flicked back. Shove back, yeah. Ashes winner, 1971, railing with John Snow, Peter Lever. What, are there a full set of ashes? I think he was top set he was top set I think

44:58I'll tell you what good darts he was a good darts I was on the hockey the other day in Ireland were you? I like darts I love darts I've got my own errors and so on 27s left hander curve them in and I watch on YouTube Bobby George Bobby George gives you little things. It's a long way, 7 '6", isn't it? Yeah, it's a long way. Long way, man. He's on fire. He's so good, aren't he? Is he 19 yet? He's incredible, isn't he? Humphrey's going on. You used to play for Walsall, is that right? Yeah, I did, yeah. Walsall? Walsall, yeah. Walsall Football Club. Midfield? Midfield, yeah. Then they pushed me out onto the wing and I didn't really enjoy it out there.

45:45Better in the middle. We played. Trying to dictate play. He was called the Wizard. play them this week. The Wither, wasn't he? Dan Leclerc, Walsall. Top of the league, Walsall. Are they? Yeah, top of the league. Good side, didn't they? Just missed out on promotion last year, didn't they? I think we play them this week. The Wither, wasn't it? It wasn't for your bang, was it? It was for your football. Yeah, yeah. Actually, it's funny you talk about darts. It started with darts. It was my nickname at an under-19s darts competition when we were in Sri Lanka. You know that Cheers bar? Yeah,

46:19That's where it started. I thought it was from the Wiz. That's the book title. It can't be the Wiz, it can't be. Well, here we go. Last two. Villa to win the Premier League or England to win the Ashes? Let's see. What? Now? No, no. You can take either or now. Well, now I'd take Villa to win the Premier League. I've not seen it, have I? I've seen England win the Ashes. So, yeah. Right, we're going to finish with this. November the 21st. Yep. You're in sole control of England's team. It's a typical Perth wicket, bit of bounce in it. Name your 11. I think it picks itself. Crawley, Duckett, Pope, Root.

47:01Brook at five. Stokes at six. Smith at seven. Atkinson at eight. Nine, Wood. Ten, Joffre. Eleven, Bashir. Right, there you go. Gone for the spinner in Perth. Like it. Wokesy, brilliant career. Thank you. I know you've got a bit of cricket to go, but it's great to have you on the show. I'm sure we're going to see you again over the next year. Can I just ask, he's such a nice bloke, isn't he? He's known as the nicest man in cricket. Have you ever told any batter to fuck off? Plenty, Bubba. Plenty. Plenty.

48:04Thanks for listening and thanks to our partners, Betfair. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode. And if you want to support the show, please leave us a five-star review and help others find it too. See you next time.