Jack Russell: England’s Best Keeper? Jamie Smith & Lara Story | Stick to Cricket EP 40

0:00Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. Fresh air, longer days, a chance to reset. This season, let therapy be part of your spring cleaning, clearing mental clutter, shaking off stuckness and building something better. Grow Therapy helps you get there. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, Grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and get started in as little as two days. And if something comes up, you can cancel up to 24 hours in advance at no cost.

0:43Grow helps you find therapy on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans. Sessions average about$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash start now today to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Hi, friends. Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar, a little goes a long way, and Walmart Business is here to help. They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax-exempt purchasing for eligible organizations.

1:29Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.warmart.com to get started. Hi, this is Dave Musial, owner of Four Seasons Heating, Air Conditioning, Plumbing and Electric, and I want to guarantee you a breakdown-free winner. Did you know that a dirty furnace costs more to operate and can lead to higher utility bills and untimely breakdowns? Now is the time to schedule your Four Seasons Furnace Tune-Up and save$50. A Four Seasons Furnace Tune-Up includes a 35-point inspection, complete cleaning, and we calibrate every component of your furnace. So call today.

1:59Sir Alastair Cook: For all the right reasons, call 866-FOUR-SEASONS.

2:09Michael Vaughan: Oh good, where's Ari? There he is. Can I have a black coffee? Of course you can mate. Thanks mate. Oh we're doing a bit of drawing aren't we? A bit of drawing. It's a nice little number you've got in there. Do you like it? Yeah you're a 96. Just thought I'd bring it. Well Jack Russell's coming on. He loves England so I thought I'd put it. I think he's a football coach you know. Is he? Yeah he's coach goalkeeping. He's a big artist as well isn't he? Yeah so he's coming in. So I thought I'd wear it. I actually got it in India. Did you? Yeah. On the market. I don't think it's a snide. Is it a snide?

2:41Michael Vaughan: It's got an umbro tag in it. I think it's legit. Is it umbro or umbrae? Might be a bit. No, it's alright. I'll be wearing this. World Cup in the summer. I'll be wearing this every night. You gonna go? No. Stupid times, innit? It's awful, yeah. No, I won't be going. I actually, I love football. But I do like watching it at home. You're a Wednesday fan, aren't you? Big Wednesday fan, yeah. We're getting bored. Get ready. We'll be back back in League one. We'll be back Another point of action. It might take a couple of years, but we'll be back might take longer than two Right, I'm gonna have to draw Bumble

3:22Michael Vaughan: Let's see how that comes out So who's Jack going to draw? What are these? Chef get on your seat. You're gonna draw Cat because obviously we've got the artist Jack Russell So you're gonna have to first 10 minutes is a bit of drawing Get in Phil, Phil. What's happening? Here he is, here he is, here he is, Jack Russell.

3:43Sir Alastair Cook: Come on in, come on in. Come on, Snortus.

3:46Michael Vaughan: Come on, come on. Great to see you, mate. Nice to see you. Thanks for coming. Good to see you. Good to see you. My stomach. All right, mate, how are you doing? Look, we've had a little preview of this bag. Yeah, it's there, 1990. Yeah, the cable and wireless test suit. West Inders versus... Have a sniff of the bag. No way. Oh, no, no.

4:04Sir Alastair Cook: I've changed necks of this for you.

4:05Michael Vaughan: Health and safety, health and safety. That's right. Where did the bag go?

4:08Sir Alastair Cook: Those hands. Oh, I love that.

4:11Michael Vaughan: Go on. I tell you, it's a nice bag, though. It's still going, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Well, you've got your teeth. Jar, this is your... Is that on there, am I? Yeah. You can get your... Where should we put the bag? I can't leave it too... It's got to be near me. Yeah, yeah, I get that. It's got the hat in it. Jar, what we're going to do for the... Because obviously you're...

4:29Sir Alastair Cook: He's got the hat in it.

4:30Michael Vaughan: Well, we'll see what comes out of the bag. While we're drawing each other, because obviously you're going to judge... Am I judging? Okay, you can do a bit of art as well after a minute. I'm no good at that. I can't. Can you just do mine? I'll come around and give you a hand. It's cheating again, isn't it, Sir Alistair? Is that for me? Yes, mate. You want a cup of tea, do you? Yeah, always a cup of tea. Are you still drinking lots of tea? Yeah, I'm on decaf now, so I can sleep at night. Have you not gone on to all the herbal teas? No, I like it straight. Straightforward, simple, yeah. No milk? No frills, you know me, no frills.

5:02Michael Vaughan: All right, Dave. Yeah, good. Absolute badger. Absolute badger. I've had some of their kit. Good, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, I tell you, I was with you the other morning. Your fish man, Ocean... Yeah, Matt. Yeah, he came to Wilmslow, yeah, got a nice piece of aden. A message from him. Yeah, good lad, he is. He wants fish-related cricketers. Virat Kohli, C-O-L-E-Y. I couldn't think of anything else. Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. So just hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

5:42Sir Alastair Cook: You used to get kitted up and then go and sit in a sauna. You used to come in a sauna at David Lloyd, and they'd be snorting sitting there.

5:52Michael Vaughan: As the ball were cutting in, you went, Can't see! Pigeons! You wouldn't give anyone your address, would you? No. The blindfold, is that true? Yeah. The builders used to meet you on the roundabout. Used to blindfold. All the Aussie keep the struggling. They haven't asked me, but I know why. Don't tell them. Don't tell them. Don't tell them. I'm not going to tell them. Did you really drive wearing a sleeping bag? Yeah. Sorry, I missed that snumping in Barbados, by the way. Lara.

6:21Sir Alastair Cook: Did you miss Lara? I don't know.

6:30Michael Vaughan: Because we've got the artist in, Jack, for the first few minutes, we can chat away, but Dave, you've got to draw me, I've got to draw you. Sir Alistair, you've got to draw the cat. You're an artist yourself, Phil, aren't you? Oh, I have. I need all you. Aren't you? Well, I just splatter a bit. Oh, you're retiring. I've done a bit. I've done a bit. A ball or two on the canvas. So you do cat. Cat will do you. Jack? Can you teach drawing? Because I literally cannot draw. I've never been able to. It's simple. It's simple.

6:53Sir Alastair Cook: Always use to take. Draw what you say. Come on, then. Always used to take his paints, didn't you? What's the size of his hat? I'm sure he's dirty, went down to work. I can't do that. Done them all, hadn't you? Yeah. Done them all. His room... Well, it was like an art gallery, wasn't it? He used to smell. Turpentine. Turpentine. Nobody would room with him in the end. What in turpentine? In a glove. In a glove. White spirit. In a glove. In a glove. You know, the keeper's always, you know, just a bit... On with your art. Yeah. A little bit... I draw, turpentine. Turpentine, yeah. Used to walk in Snurters, but he used to knock you out.

7:29It was a cross between a Chinese laundry and an art gallery, wasn't it? So he used to hang my kit out. And his everything. Hang my kit out. No, I haven't got his head yet. Where'd he start? Where'd he draw a cat?

7:40Sir Alastair Cook: I was going to draw a stick man. Remember, Cat, when that Brigadier pack was... Yes. ..we could only take so much luggage, and he said we were that many tons all the way, It was because of his seven coffins seven for a baked beans beans artists

8:01Right gate the top of his head is there to his chin is you moving up you move it You're laughing now you've got it the so you put on straight. Yeah, so you move it keep still cut a second. Oh look Okay, so you want that on the top of his head and put your thumb Alistair, so move it. Yeah, so just put a doctor so that's oh yeah right now do the width so it could be all right yeah go on then

8:35yeah right so then just so then you just just swing around just swing around and then just draw a face now you've got roughly the outline that's what you do don't go die don't don't look like a diamond go around look at the shape of his head and go around you've got bumble lovely

8:50Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, I'll tell you what we'll do. Go on, you're doing it, that's great. Go on. We'll auction the... Go on, look at that, that's good. Do I need...? Do I have a look at me? Go on, just do his chin. There we go, look, we're not doing much of a show here, we're just painting the boys. Well, he's cheating, he's not doing it for him.

9:10Michael Vaughan: Cheers, Harry, cheers, Harry. Have you met Jack, Harry? No, not yet. Jack, in your head, Harry, I'll get you it. Thank you. Jack, while we're scribbling away, that bag you've brought He's a belter from 1990. What's in it? My life's in the bag, Frank. What's in the bag? You want to see what's in it? Now?

9:27Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, let's see what you've got. Jack the hat. I reckon the hat's got to be in there. Right. That's shocking.

9:37It nearly got you the sack, Bumble. What did? His hat. Oh, yeah. You know that? It's not the only thing. Oh, yeah, yeah.

9:45Michael Vaughan: I was on that story. Lord McClary said I couldn't wear the hat. It's a Lord McLaren motor phone. Yeah, we all had to be tied. You haven't got a neck of them. Right. So he banned, you had to all wear the same kit. So he banned my hat, I couldn't wear it. I thought I could and he said no. And we had two days in Montego Bay. Solicitors on the phone, this and that. I wasn't allowed in the meetings. No. You were in the meetings. Athers probably went grey.

10:09Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. And the bottom line was, if I wore the hat, you were going to be sacked. Yeah. Athers was going to be sacked and I was going to be sent home. Yeah, he was going home. That is a fact. It was going out.

10:19Michael Vaughan: Sacked over a hat. Yes. So they... Corporate image. Yeah, corporate image. So I had to wear the stiff brim one, but the brim was out here like a Mexican... Couldn't see. Couldn't see. And the back of your neck. I got it in writing from Bob Bennett that I could cut it down to look like my hat.

10:35Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. And after about two games, it looked worse than my hat. Yeah. It just looked a wreck. Yeah. I remember. Because you said you couldn't get your neck back. Couldn't get your neck back. Help me, help me, help me. I don't realise he was cheek. I didn't realise Sir Alice, he's a nice little bit.

10:52Michael Vaughan: He's cheeky. He's cheeky when he's getting a bit of help.

10:56Sir Alastair Cook: What's wrong with that? He doesn't need a mouth. Does he need a mouth? How's he going to eat? How's he going to speak? He hasn't got a mouth. There you go, Vaughn.

11:08Michael Vaughan: Oh, there it is. Is that the one you used to wear when you stood up to Smithy? Yeah. Remember at Gloucester when you used to go down to where the chickens were in the corner? Yeah, live chicken used to have in the corner those those support. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's you know where the chicken came from I mean, so we've got a live chicken around You know why because that chicken was at Lord's in 1977 Right for the Benson final between Gloucester and Kent Gloucester one and somebody they had this fruit They had this chicken. I don't know the whole story But they somebody put it in a fridge ready for the next cup final, right?

11:41But it wasn't until 1999 so they brought this chicken now. It's blacker than my gloves

11:45Michael Vaughan: and they were carrying it round all those foreigners I always remember flicking one down to the fine leg to the chicken coming back for a second and the ball was thrown into you and you were getting I always remember because I was back with Anthony McGrath and we pissed ourselves laughing as the ball was coming and you went can't see pigeons that's right that's true story they were getting

12:06Sir Alastair Cook: in the way I remember I'm not trying that I'm not trying that one I'm not trying that one it's been rebuilt a few times Did you wear just that the whole hat the whole thing? I had this the very first day remember Tony Brown at Gloucestershire? He gave me that first day issue my first day as a professional career. Yeah 1982 so the original bit still in this not much of it and I did the whole my career But I had to rebuild it every so often with flannels from the 1950s Yeah, because the modern polyester stuff's no good. It doesn't it doesn't so our old coach Graham Wilcher Yeah, I agree. I remember him.

12:44We used to get in his loft every winter and I said, go and cut some old flannels off for me so my wife could patch it up. Yeah. It's nothing to do with superstition, by the way. It's all to do with comfort. I deny it all. Was Tony Brown's secretary at the time? Yeah. So he'd finished playing. Yeah, he'd just finished. He must have just finished. He's quiet, didn't he? Yeah, not long. Yeah, because he was 70s.

13:07Sir Alastair Cook: It's like Trigger's fork. I'm playing against him. Yeah, no, he's good Trigger. All rounders. Who's that? Tony Brown, he's heavy isn't it Jack? Jack, Jack, Jack, Jack, Jack, I think it might have been called the Rum Runner in Bristol and they got in an almighty fracker Tony Brown Procky, yeah, Mike Proctor and David Green Fracker and morning after they'd turned up black eyes and everything. Yeah, yeah, well that would have been that would have been about right wouldn't it? Yeah. What's wrong with that? Amazing. You said you didn't use to clean your teeth for a week before the finals because you were standing up.

13:43There was a big game coming up. Why? No, with Jeremy Snape at Gully, you'd say breathe on them. Breathe on them. Breathe on them. You didn't rush on them. Yeah. So, I mean, they're still in there. So I could, like, because it was about, you know what it was like, you were there, weren't you? It was about getting in the bats from space and interfering without actually getting in the space. Incredible. Isn't Snapey came up with that one?

14:09Sir Alastair Cook: I remember running on a track. I remember running on a track. I was 12th man at Essex versus Gloucester. I'm going to say, was it 2020? When did you stop playing? 2004. Yeah, so in that year, Ravi Vapara was bang. Being a wicket, I ran on the drinks. And you literally were just like all over Ravi, all over me. I was a 12 man. I was like proper like, I wouldn't actually have fancied batting, I never played against you, I wouldn't have fancied batting in that thing. I got it, who would have been Mark Alain might have been rolling or Keeper Up. That was Gloucester wasn't it? I was like running drinks.

14:47Michael Vaughan: I remember Peter Moore's when he was coach, he used to say create the theatre. They were the first I played against, they created that. It was the four guys in the ring, mid wicket, and Gully as well, four or five in the ring, It was like a strangle a mental strangulation And we had to isolate the batsmen so they weren't even working together So they felt so alone. Yeah, and a few dot balls Build it up precious on all that stuff. No, no snow nasty sledging It was all psychological stuff. Yeah, but the guys the keep I couldn't have done it without the guys in the ring because the squeeze Yeah, we used to And that's where you had windows, didn't you?

15:30Michael Vaughan: Windows, brilliant. Steamy windows. Simiangkab. Boo Boo was good. Boo Boo excellent, yeah. And Borley was around somewhere. Borley's the best first slip I ever had. Yeah, Borley was good.

15:40Sir Alastair Cook: You always got the ball thrown in, didn't you? Right in front of Arsenal. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I watched it. I never played against it. I watched it. What I used to do was, because I used to... Like, Jesus Christ! The biggest noise. I remember watching it. I know. I was there I played against lost there I played against cross that is exactly the same That's what I was there pat it one back pat it one back You didn't that one I did a pat it one back sort of like remember it just directs to cover and then just sort of You know wandered back into McCree start that next week. Oh Jesus Christ and Jack just taken it I did it in front of me face.

16:16I didn't some Matty Hayden ones Yeah, but he's up there any yes, and I just saw a brand of like that. I was going like they just Did you ever get sledge as a batter though?

16:28Sir Alastair Cook: Because of what you'd like? The best sledge ever, the worst, the most effective sledge for me ever was Matty Maynard and Crofty, Farrick LaMorgan. I know what they're going to say. They actually, do you want to, it actually said, go on. We know where you live.

16:46Michael Vaughan: We know where you live. We know where you live. You won't give anyone your address, would you? No. Did the ECB know where you lived? No, not really. Is that true? Is that true? Yeah, yeah. Still true now? I'm a bit more relaxed now. Why? Why didn't you want anyone to know where you lived? Because we had an isolated house, so the kids were there, the family. When you were abroad and everything, they were on your own. So there was logic to it. But I saw beefiest kids get paparazzi and all that. It went in playgrounds and it scored. I thought, I can't have any of that. So I thought, right, I'm not going to tell anyone.

17:18Anyway, it just sort of snowballed into... The blindfold, is that true?

17:21Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. It's true. The builders used to meet you on the roundabout. Used to blindfold. The thing was, it got so out of hand that they didn't want the pressure of knowing. They actually didn't want the pressure. So there actually has been blindfolded people to the house. What do you do with the postman?

17:41Michael Vaughan: Can we get on to the art? Come on. Jack, can you judge? So we've got four pieces of art. Dave's drawn myself. I've drawn Dave. It's good, but... The cat has drawn the knight, and you've drawn for him. Cat's a proper artist. Well, no, not really. Is he? Oh, right. And your man's cheating on your side. No, he's cheating. He's cheating. He's got his stabilisers on. He's all right. Who wants to be the first to reveal? Dave, you reveal me first, and Jack, can you mark him out of ten? Oh, yeah. Oh. Yeah, that's good. That's great. Can you show the camera, please, Dave? I haven't really used the page.

18:17I mean, he's been kind to you. What sort of, when was the last time you did drawing or painting or anything like that? I never have, Jack. I went to technical college. Jack, out of ten, what are you giving it? I've got to give it a six and a half. Six and a half. That's a pass. I've got six and a half on that, Dave.

18:35Michael Vaughan: Right, I'll review real Dave now. See, that's a cartoon. Oh, Sue? That's a cartoon. That is fucking... What are you doing? That's not bad, Jack, isn't it? Caricatures. Yeah, that's nice. He hasn't actually got a face, though, has he? I think the nose is a bit kind. Looks like a wagger.

18:56Sir Alastair Cook: Looks like a wagger, doesn't it? A little ball bag there. A little wagger. There's a lot in it, and you've used the whole page, so I've got to give you a seven and a half.

19:06Michael Vaughan: Oh, thank you very much. I'll take that. Seven and a half. Go on, I'll reveal.

19:10Sir Alastair Cook: Bloody hell, that was shot. Ready? I might have gone a little bit David Coulthard here. I might have just gone a bit extra. To the camera, Phil, to the camera. Slight exaggeration there. It's not bad, Kat. It's not bad. I love the jawline. The jawline. Very strong jawline. Very strong.

19:30Michael Vaughan: It is. It's kind of triangular. It's got a triangle face. You've got previous, haven't you? That's good. It's good effort, that. It's all in proportion, you think? Yeah, there you go. There you go. Cos you've got the... I've learnt the trick. What are you giving it? Yeah, that's got to be eight and a half. Eight and a half? Should I write that eight and a half? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good. Come on then. Come on. Let's have a look.

19:55Sir Alastair Cook: What the hell is that? No, no, it's good. It's my first ever drawing. If that's his first ever drawing. You've had some help doing that. I've had a bit of Botox on the lower half. I haven't got a wriggle on the list. I thought you'd like that. The hair, I did the hair. Thank you, chef.

20:12Michael Vaughan: It is nice. It's nice. How much have you given yourself, Jack, for that?

20:16Sir Alastair Cook: No, I actually did most of it. He just drew the guide. He just drove me out. Have you got a day job? I'll give myself five. There you go. No. Why don't you finish it off with that? Five and a half.

20:28Michael Vaughan: Five and a half, unlucky. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair.

20:39Fresh air, longer days, a chance to reset. This season, let therapy be part of your spring cleaning, clearing mental clutter, shaking off stuckness, and building something better. Grow Therapy helps you get there. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, Grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and get started in as little as two days. And if something comes up, you can cancel up to 24 hours in advance at no cost. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help.

21:20Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans. Sessions average about$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash start now today to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Hi friends, Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar, a little goes a long way and Walmart Business is here to help. They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax exempt purchasing for eligible organizations.

21:59Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.warmart.com to get started.

22:34Sir Alastair Cook: 664 Seasons.

22:38Sir Alastair Cook: Where did you get your love for your painting from, Jack? I mean... Boredom. What, like through cricket? Boredom at the cricket, yeah. Harry? Boredom, just sat in the pavilion. Really? That's him a date. Were you drawing at school? No. Too busy skiving off playing cricket. Yeah. Right. So I've always been interested in it. How do they do it? You know, Rembrandt, Constable, those guys. Oh. And I go up to art galleries, I go up to paintings like that for hours, and people go, is that a lunatic? I'm just trying to work out how they did it. So we had a wet summer in 87 and I started sketching, I thought I'm waiting my life away.

23:14The fact I'd lost all my money playing cards and got nothing to do with it.

23:18Sir Alastair Cook: You can't brag. Stormed out the dressing room at Worcester, went into town, bought a sketch behind some pencil and started sketching.

23:25Michael Vaughan: Really? But initially, if somebody would come along, I'd, no, I'm just feeding the ducks. So I didn't I was really shy and then I started doing it at the cricket and I thought this is okay No, yeah, and it just grew and then at the end of that winter 87 Where I got picked for Pakistan, that's the Shackle round and Mike Gattin. Yeah And I only played about a day and a half in eight weeks So more them yeah, but they got before I went into the to fall on tour the guy a guy in Bristol Oh look at the guy. What's happening here?

23:56Sir Alastair Cook: Move in your chair Obviously. Cameras, cameras. That's right. And the guy said, if you go to Pakistan, do some sketching, we'll have an exhibition in Bristol. That's how it all started. And I came back with 40 sketches, because I only played a couple of days in eight weeks, and Frenchy was a keeper. Bruce, yeah. And the sketches start the cricket season, and they sold out in two days. The whole thing sold out in two days. That was the start of it all. So I started sketching that. So you're self-taught? Yeah. Any normal tutor? No. What were you sketching? Anything? Anything. And it's just, yeah, just by...

24:31Sir Alastair Cook: Local scenes. Oh, Pakistan was great. Yeah, goats and all sorts. We were down the market all the time. Although I played in Peshawar at the end, the third one there, because I got on... My first England team meeting, Mike Gatton, his welcome, Harve came, Capes was there, a couple of other guys come... I can't remember who now. Cookie. And he said, well, Jack, welcome to the tour. you're not playing all right that was my first my first team but you're not playing so Frenchie went mad Frenchie was absolutely went berserk because I was rooming with him so I need you I need we need competition you know you've got to take my play anyway I played the game at the end because we won two so I got the third one on the northwest frontier yeah per shower and all the time on the days off I was just sketching amazing scenery oh just you I could still be there now you know it's or do you I don't pay anything do you yeah anything I mean those wonderful cricket well yeah it is just paintable portraits all right portraits are hard but I like to in yeah like they're a challenge but anything if I you know if I go it doesn't matter and I like the chopping chains between cricket and our

25:39Michael Vaughan: whiskey bottles and yeah if you've ever been asked to do one of the portraits at

25:44Sir Alastair Cook: Lord's in the pavilion no no why wouldn't you got in Imperial War Museum yeah yeah I've got I've had a few did the royal portrait last year you were you somebody painted you a couple of years ago. Yeah, for the Lord. Mike's is a good one. LAUGHTER That's why I was asking too. I put things in. So the portraits do... But I don't get time for a lot of portraits because I'm busy doing other stuff, cricket mainly. Paintings. Are you full-time? Bumbles is his goodness. It's the only skill I've got left. It's not... I've got a few. Bumble's a collector. You've got some early stuff though. I've got loads of your stuff.

26:23We've got a few bits. What, originals? He used to give us them. Yeah, he's... He used to give us them. Or did we have to pay for them? He's done one recently in our house. Do you do mates rates? Well, I look after you. I look after people.

26:37Michael Vaughan: He could paint the picture we take at the end. He's from Yorkshire, bud. I know, I know. My wife's a Yorkie, so I know. Well, you live in York.

26:45Sir Alastair Cook: It's therapeutic, though, isn't it? I mean, I've done a little bit. It's lovely, isn't it? No, it is. I'll tell you what it is. It's lovely. I'll be honest it's like a drug. Yes, because it's like been a replacement for the cricket You know instead of trying to catch every ball like years on end. Yeah now I've got something else to focus on because when you finish playing there's you just stop big wide world in you sort of like It can be lost But I had that to go into straight away because I've been doing it for 15 years before I finished So I had that so it's now it's like an obsession so Monday to Friday You wait you just go Sorry, when's the Friday?

27:17Sir Alastair Cook: That's half a week. No, I'm saying is it literally? I'm just fascinated by, like, have your Weetabix and then you... Yeah, Weetabix. Have your Weetabix and then just... I can't stand Weetabix. I don't have that.

27:26Michael Vaughan: Thank you. What about the Weetabix story Freddie told on this show? What's Freddie on it? I saw that. I used to make a Weetabix. He'd get him back in. That's totally... Nine minutes? Oh, yes. He was chucking the milk in when I was coming up the stairs through the long rim. It was like the crunchiest Weetabix.

27:39Sir Alastair Cook: It used to have to be about six or seven, didn't it? 15 minutes. 15 minutes, was it? It was the crunchiest Weetabix I ever had, honestly. No, that was... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you still having your Weetabix? No, I haven't had it. I had it first time for about a year ago. I haven't had it since. Since it was 20 years ago. You know when he's painting, when he's sledging himself. Oh, yeah. Sledges himself. I swear. Yeah. I swear. Come on. So he's in our house and we're going about our business and you'll hear, come on!

28:08Michael Vaughan: What's the stand back? He's done the picture for your feet. I did a still life. A still life in our house. I'd done a bit of work down in Harryford. if you know what i mean um i kind of don't but hereford lads all right all right right and i got a they presented me with a a very nice bottle of whiskey with the who dares wins and so we set it up and um did a sort of a dram a drama of whiskey yeah a half empty bottle and a poppy that's that's lovely it's a nice nice nice nice painting came twice didn't I can't know you came more than that Jack I did I sure no tea left sandwiches for lunch yeah there's there's there's loads of stories about you oh I don't know I'm all I got one this morning yeah coffee around me and he says that he room with you in India in the 90s and is this true that you push a clothing line across the middle of the room definitely for your clothes and and Goffy wasn't allowed in your half of the room Well, it's that's a bit of a mixture, but there's all of its It's that's pretty much true from various bits But it was South Africa and I room with Goffy and and I didn't trust the laundry local laundry because my kit You know even my I used to wear the same kit.

29:31So I'm quite superstitious about kit Every day dig into that. Yeah, but if you dig into that There's bits of kit in there that I had like when I was 16. I'm still wearing it still using it when I was playing There's a t-shirt in there that I used to bat in for about 15 years Look at his face We wash it. I mean this wasn't like it was washed So I didn't trust the laundry because stuff would go missing and you wouldn't get it back So if I'd got a favorite shirt on tour and I was it was gone I used to wash it myself in the bathroom. Yeah, but then hang everything up So but I used to use the facilities so there's lamps and everything I used to hang things on lamps.

30:04Steaming. And it was like, and you know, all the everything. Jockstraps the lot. So it was literally, and then of course, on the days off I'm painting. So I'd be outpainting, and then I'd have to stick them up on the walls to dry. So I'd tape them, physios tapes of the walls. So our room was literally like Chinese laundry, a cross between Chinese laundry and an art gallery. I used to get spectators coming in. The tourists would come in, they would come in like a train, loads of them. This is Jack's room. He used to bring it in as part of the tour. Yeah. So, and then every time we moved rooms, I had to pull the pictures off.

30:39There's all these bits of... Go on. No, go on. There's all these bits of wallpaper missing.

30:45Sir Alastair Cook: There's just falling wallpaper all coming off. I mean, that is superstition. I don't know if it... No, it's not. Isn't it? No, it's necessity. Right. Is it routine? Yes. Routine's a big part. Yeah. But comfort. Comfort's the key. Comfort is everything. For me... With your stumping. With your keep. Yeah. So the kit's got to be comfortable. But I may be a worse superstition. Your batting gloves? Yeah. Have you got some batting gloves? One pair? No, wait. I haven't. I had four pairs made in the early 90s. Batting gloves? Yeah. And I'm especially made with plastic. Yeah. Do you remember when we got bowled out by the West Indies?

31:20Sir Alastair Cook: Well, quite a lot. Which one? 42. Which one? Yeah, yeah. It was a 46. 46. 46. We were all sitting there. It's absolute chaos. I was there. Like that. And it's all chaos. Yeah. I was 12th man. Like that. And I'm sitting in the dressing room, we're watching it on the telly and it's just absolute chaos, chaos. Those snurters, his jacks out there, like that. And he's got this sort of fucking bouncer that's really gone back and it's hit you on the glove and the glove sort of exploded and fell on the floor. And we'd all thought... County Hambrose has knocked his hand off! Because this great big glove...

31:57I haven't got him here, I should have brought him. Great big glove just fell on the floor with one arm. They were like boxing gloves. But I had to protect my fingers, didn't I? Yeah, yeah. And, of course, you know, I'm not a bowler. Everyone's giving it to me, aren't they? Because they know they can get away with it. Yeah. So it was like a part of it. And I just, I didn't want to get injured. So that's not eccentric, is it? That's logic. No, absolutely. That's logic. But I had four pairs. Cooker made me six pairs, sorry, in the early 90s. I used them for the rest of my career. One bottom hand, I had it for about 10 years.

32:24It was great. It was good. That's not superstition. That's necessity.

32:27Sir Alastair Cook: I never changed my gloves, ever. I didn't really sweat. But did you sweat? What, throughout the whole innings? In the innings, I very rarely changed a pair of gloves. My hands didn't sweat, so I didn't... If I'd got a long-sleeved sweater on and it was getting hot, I'd kept the sweater on because I didn't want to... That is superstition. Well, there you go. You batted, didn't you, in the long-sleever? Yeah. Again, for protection, took a bit of sting off, didn't it? Yeah, but before West Indies, everyone sort of had a little giggle about it, but it's so true, you used to get kitted up, go with all your keeping gloves and then go and sit in a sauna.

33:00Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, yeah, that was pre-Pakistan. You used to come in a sauna at David Lloyd and they'd be snorting sitting there. No, that is true. On that first trip, all we got was a letter saying, the flight's this day, see you at the airport, don't forget your passport. That was pre-season preparation. That was pre-tour preparation. From Medda. That would be from Medda. From Medda. So I'm thinking, right, it's a hot place, isn't it? I've been to many hot places. I've got to work this out. So I'm getting the sauna in Bristol with my batting gear on and just play shots in the sauna. All the people in this land, in the bikini.

33:42Who were the speedos on them? It's called acclimatisation. Absolutely. The climb adapting. The climb adapting. Who was your mentor then? Before your time. Who's your wicked-keeping mentor? My hero, Alan Knott. Alan Knott and Bob Taylor. Yes. So they were my two heroes. Every fixtures would come out at the start of every season. Because there were no computers, videos, no videos recorded. I didn't know what I looked like until 1985, when we were on John Player League of the Grandstand. I didn't know what I looked like. So I would go and speak to those guys on an evening. Wrestling room door, Mr Knott, can I have a quick word?

34:18And at the start of every season, sometimes you played teams twice. First two fixes I look at, how many times we were playing Kent, how many times we were playing Derby, because that was the only way I could learn. I'd go and pick their brains and just... That was the way to do it.

34:33Michael Vaughan: But who was your coach? Didn't have a coach. No. Didn't have a coach. Andy Brassenden helped me a lot. Brass, yeah. Lost it, Brassie.

34:41Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, good man. In the early days, I took his place in the side. Yeah. And he helped me a lot. But on the... No, you had to teach yourself. We didn't have a wicket-keeping coach. But your senior pros were sort of round the route and the captain would be the boss. Yeah, but my first two years, I was told to sit in the corner and shut up. Just because I was a bit of a gobby teenager. You don't have cricket-keeping coaches, really, do you? No, no, a bit brash. And I didn't say anything for two years. I just sat and just got on with my job until I learnt the trade and learnt how to do it properly.

35:09Or thought I could do it properly. And then you'd go in the bar after and you would pick the oppo keeper or you would listen to Gucci chatting about batting or something. That was, you would go in the bar, that was it. If you could grab somebody during the game, if it was raining, you would do that. So there's no coaching. Fresh air, longer days, a chance to reset. This season, let therapy be part of your spring cleaning. Clearing mental clutter, shaking off stuckness and building something better. Grow Therapy helps you get there. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, Grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around.

35:53You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and get started in as little as two days. And if something comes up, you can cancel up to 24 hours in advance at no cost. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans. Sessions average about$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash start now today to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

36:35Hi, friends. Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar, Alilla goes a long way and Walmart Business is here to help. They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax exempt purchasing for eligible organizations. Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.warmart.com to get started. Hi, this is Dave Musial, owner of Four Seasons Heating, Air Conditioning, Plumbing and Electric. With our biggest sale ever, furnaces from just$39 a month.

37:04Furnace and air conditioning combos from just$57 a month. plus six years interest-free financing. Four Seasons guarantees to beat any competitor's price by up to$1 ,000. With an A-plus rating from the Better Business Bureau and over 30 ,000 five-star reviews, we are Chicago's trusted local experts. For all the right reasons, call 866-FOUR-SEASONS.

37:31Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by BetFast. Do you study keepers down think now yeah, do you look at what they do now and is it changed or techniques changed? Little bit but base I can tell when they're gonna miss something now Because I can just look at that technique And I'm gonna know can we do a bit of demo with you? They'll get your stumps out. Oh God. Well generally does a few careful. What's your baby? Have you got your gloves in your bag? I have got some gloves out. Yeah, just give us a little Phil I'll get the stumps out. We'll be moving it up here. A bit more. Shall I bring... I'll tell you what, I'll put the decent gloves on and I'll leave Alistair with my main gloves.

38:12Are you bowling, Mike?

38:13Sir Alastair Cook: Are you throwing? Yeah, yeah. Well, you throw them. Jack, you've got to put these on. Get the old ones on, Jack. Get them on there, they're solid. I've got these on. I've got these on. Are these the boys? No, they're the... Are these the old ones? Can I put them on? Yes, you can. If you can get your hand in there... Oh, bow to them a few times. I'm snurters. I used to call you snurters. Well, it's not just say what why do we always call you snort? Because they got a horrible out of character The cartoon character in the Sun. He had a dog called snort That's right. Bill athi Bill athi Bill athi called me once at Gloucester one day and it's stuck ever since I ate him for it

38:46Michael Vaughan: Right Joe get me out of there I'm not trying to catch anything You'll be fine Give us give us what when you just said there you said you know when they're gonna miss it Yeah, but if you look basically hasn't changed right this is the jobs not it's quite a simple job really Actually catching my gloves on it quite simple job. It's just made complicated by The person doing it and what's in front of him So the basics are there so many but it's the basics are the same But in the modern game, I would say the things that might have changed our helmets because I could never keep working a helmet You imagine me in a helmet bun, right?

39:22It's like affects your head. Yeah changes your balance everything So keepers are like this now rather than being like this. Yeah, that's the vision thing And I feel sorry for the little kids 13 year old they they've got helmet on yeah It weighs everything they do they have to wear a hat but they have to wear it So that that's another thing that's changed and also batsman

39:44Sir Alastair Cook: Reverse sweeper all this stuff in here and all just getting in the way. You would have loved that though Wouldn't you the reverse sweeper? I'd have found a way. Sorry. I missed that stumping in Barbados by the way Laura did you miss Laura? Did you miss Laura? I'm going to explain why now. What was he on? I don't know. But he got in the way. He got in the way because he used to get over here. Yeah, he did. And work you through there. It took me a game to work at Am. I got blinded. Yeah. So I couldn't see it. Yeah. And that's my excuse. So I apologise now. I thought you never missed one off me. 1994, yeah.

40:25Did you? Yeah, Barbados. Yeah, couldn't see it. What are you doing, Laura? But that's the problem. That's the problem with batsmen now. You're going to lose it a lot, so you have to work out. I do drills with keepers, not now, when I was coaching. Do drills with things in the way or people doing stuff, so you've got to work it out. Because if you can see it, you can get it. If you can't see it, you've got problems.

40:46Sir Alastair Cook: I've always thought that, actually. So there is then that, let's say, a split second when you must lose it. Yeah, but you've got to know where it's coming out of. If it's going through the gate, so you're a lefty, right, you're bowling there, and it's going through the gate, you're going to lose it for somewhere. A bit second. And also, if it goes leg side, where keepers go wrong, stand there, toughers, a minute. What, left-handed? You've got a bat. Yeah, left-handed. No, right-handed. Oh, right-handed. I never knew. So what keepers do wrong going leg side is they go too early, so he's covering more...

41:25the ball's going to get covered for a longer period of time. Whereas if you stay here, if you take the flight of the ball, it's less time, but you've got to go fast. So they make a mistake by going, oh, go early. No, you don't. You stay here and actually your hands get there first and then you do that.

41:42Sir Alastair Cook: Because there's that time when it's just passing. But you need to know where it's going to be from this side.

41:47Michael Vaughan: Yeah. So when you said that you know when they're going to miss it, what do you see? I can see bad timing, especially stood back, bad timing. The Aussies, that's why they always struggle here. Their timings for us, they keep the same timing as they've got in Australia, the rhythm. So they stay too low too long. Right. Did you catch on the inside?

42:11Sir Alastair Cook: You know, like the Aussies. I can't. Weird, isn't it? No, but if you watch the keepers, if it's a nick, they don't do that. Yeah, why do they do that? No, because they're trying to get their feet going. But in Oz, where it's bouncing nice in Oz, you can do it. You can do it. But in England, where it's a bit... ABS. And it's wobbling. ABS. It's wobbling. And like the West Indies, you're like two yards from the stumps because it's shooting. Yeah, it's scuffing at you. You know, I never did it. I always thought catch here. I've got one as well. We said it a lot in Australia, that we always thought they were too far back.

42:42Yeah.

42:43Sir Alastair Cook: That's confidence. Is it? That's confidence. Because the keeper sets the cordon. Alan Knott used to catch. low down she and I and stand back to a lot yeah when John Brasel came to Gloucester he used to he used to be I used to be he used to go like this get up get up in the net yeah get up there get up there yeah but certain keepers do like it like Fozzy James Foster at Essex he loved it yeah which actually then made it harder for our slippers did it because we were closer then you've got to get up to speed haven't you we do but you're making it hard of yourself no I don't know as a slipper but we had a philosophy at Gloucester where if it hit you in the chest or on the head, you know, and goes, that's fine.

43:23But if it bounces short, that's a crime.

43:25Sir Alastair Cook: No, no, I get it, but a certain keeper, so we then had Adam Weeter, obviously a smaller guy. Yeah. He liked Captain Laura. Yeah. And we actually caught better for it. Yeah. But Fozzie just wanted to take it. You had more time. You had more time. Yeah, we had more time. But also when you get older, and Bracewell came in later in my career, I didn't go down again. I used to just walk in and go like that and get in the most powerful. That's the other thing. Keepers don't get in their most powerful position to explode at the right time.

43:51Michael Vaughan: So the legs are absolutely crucial. The what? The legs and the feet. You know, a goalkeeper's going to save a penalty. You've got to be... It's the same thing. There's an ultimate power point where you go wherever you need to go. But if the ball's halfway down and you're just reaching that power point...

44:10Sir Alastair Cook: You're catching up with it. Yeah. But also, the other critical thing is, where are you when the ball hits the edge of the bat? Are you wrong-footed? You've got to be almost ahead of it. And that's a mental thing. It's like anticipation. Yeah. Your thought processes are so critical, you can have not the most keeping ability, but if your mind is in the ultimate place, you'll do the job. Because that's every ball.

44:39Michael Vaughan: Every ball, every day. Yeah, but you switch on, switch off. You switch on, switch off. Phil, I know you did this well throughout your career, but you're going to miss a few balls. Jack's going to take a few balls. Let's just have a go. Let's go. Come on, talk us through, Jack. That's an Aussie ball, that is. It's too slow. Too slow. You want it quicker? Yeah. Oh, Jesus. Bit of bounce. Too bouncy, that ball. Try that.

45:04Sir Alastair Cook: Hey, Lee, I ain't got any pads on. I ain't got any pads on.

45:06Michael Vaughan: We all be all right. That's better, isn't it? A bit of skin. Nice deck. It's a bit more English now. Oh, there you go.

45:12Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, there you go. Nice. Better normal, they're toughers.

45:17Michael Vaughan: Oh, look at those hands. That's it. So, I mean, when you were a kid growing up at school, were you always a keeper? No. I'll tell you why. Because... Because I'm close. Because Pedro Jones was the keeper at school. Pedro? Pedro. And he was a school hardener and nobody... He cut the gloves off him. Yeah, and even the teachers were frightened of him. They were terrified. Big Pedro? Pedro. He was only little. Little Pedro. I didn't start keeping wickets, I went to play club cricket. My local club. Right. I basically got bored down at final leg third man. Well, yeah. Badgering the coach for a week, come on, let me have a go.

45:57Didn't think much of the keeper either. No. Wasn't doing running. Eventually gave me a go and that was it. Yeah.

46:02Michael Vaughan: So what age was that? Thirt... 12. 12. Just gone to secondary school, 11, 12. And were you playing for Gloucester boys around that time? No, there were no Gloucester boys. I was playing village cricket with my dad from the age of about nine. Doing fine leg to fine leg. The overrate was terrible. I was doing fine. I'd hoped every game that somebody would be missing, and then I'd have 10, I could have a game. Then I eventually played a little bit of village. Then Stroud Cricket Club started. So that's where it was. Dave Moore, actually, the coach, he's still playing. He's 75. Took his thousands of wickets this year.

46:41Michael Vaughan: No way. Yeah, honestly, Strad Creek Club. The guy at Edinburgh that drives us in, do you know the little buggies from the car park? Yeah. He's the guy, he's got about 2 ,700 wheels. Oh, he has, yeah. Yeah, I forget his name, he tells us that he's still going. And I saw him last year because he had an anniversary, so he started the youth team in 1975, and that's where it all started. But then when Notty took, caught Rick McCosker at Edinburgh one-handed in 1977, diving off Tony Gregg, diving in front of Mike Brewer, that was the moment I thought, I decided, right, I'm going to do that. For England, I'm going to do that.

47:14I stopped playing football. Because, you know, in those days...

47:16Michael Vaughan: You've been a football keeping coach as well, haven't you? Yeah, yeah. Forrest Green. And a bit of that, yeah. Kept getting lobbed. I was no good in those, yeah. No good at corners. That was great fun, that. It was something slightly different. Because we know that league, don't we? Yeah. With Forrest Green and York and those teams. National League. And it's a bit more professional now. But that was interesting. It was interesting to see how the keepers... from wicket keeping to football, they overlapped a fair bit. But keepers are out where we're soft, where we're going. But the preparation and the mentality and being ready and being prepared is exactly the same.

47:57Sir Alastair Cook: You're a different animal. You've got to be a different animal. No, you have to be a stuck steer keeper. But I used to get them catching... I used to take tennis balls to training. Catch a few... You know, belt on hard. Then they're catching a bigger they saw all this boys that make a boys eat it's easier And I just to sharpen them up, you know But I enjoyed that. Yeah, I enjoyed that so you were battered a star with I was school captain I always played a year above me. Yeah, which I think helped a lot because you made you Precure I always played men's cricket when I was a kid. Yeah, yes massive.

48:30It was massive.

48:30Michael Vaughan: Yeah, I still think it is Yeah, I don't say I don't think I don't think kids who you know they're coming through the county system the county seems to be kind of taking their players out of the Saturday afternoon or club cricket system I think it's massive I learned so much playing Western league cricket yeah with even second team my thing but um just answer your question there was no youth team so I was although the county would scout the area and I ended up playing second team when I was about 14 15 and we used to play clubbing ground then do you remember clubbing ground yeah which is like local youth and also one or two pros from the county team members shep shep was my first captain in yeah stood next to me club and ground yeah yeah so but i always played men's cricket i really yeah i played with me older brother older four years

49:24Sir Alastair Cook: older you know if you wanted to go and have a game you learn yeah you know you had to go and play I guess the older boys. And I was captain of the Sunday team when I was 16. Right. At Stroud. So that helped a lot. And then there was what we call Gloucester Young Cricketers, which is like the teenage team. Under 18s. Under 18. Yeah, that's it. Federation, all that. But it was the second team. I got in the second team quite, you know, playing against some... Kennings. I played against Kennings. Oh, yeah.

49:51Michael Vaughan: Oh, not the one that done Shower. Was it? Is that in the same one? Same fellas. Done two shows in the right now. Yeah. So that's the way to learn, I think, just going at the deep end. You either sink or swim.

50:03Sir Alastair Cook: What advice to a young keeper now would you give? Obviously catch it, but I mean... Yeah, it helps. No, but about the mental side. You know, it's all about... A lot of it's to do with relaxation. Because a little bit of you're aggressive and you're trying to... You can't be relaxed and be explosive. You've got to be aggressive. But don't let the aggression go past there. So if you... Give me a thumb. If you tight tense that up, can you feel the tension in there? So you have to learn to... So all your aggression is from there up. It's going wrong. I don't know. So you just do that with gloves. That's why you see people doing gloves nearly four and off.

50:42Do you have to knock your gloves in if you get a brand new pair of gloves? Never like new gloves. I didn't need to. I had those for about 15 years. How old are those gloves? I had two pairs. So for a young kid, a young wicketkeeper now, will get a brand new pair of gloves in? Yeah, you've got to knock them in. Knock them in? Knock them in. Like, you can't get them on. Catching balls, catching balls. You've got to knock them in, yeah. Sorry, I didn't answer your question, which I will. Sorry, mate. You've got to... The biggest thing I say, if you can see it, you can get it. So don't let anything get in your way and don't let anything disrupt your rhythm because some pitches can be up and down and not easy.

51:21But focus on the ball. Give that ball a second. My life... Yes. My life, no, literally, when the ball's coming down, that's my world. So the whole rest of the world would just disappear. I always wanted to paint a picture of it, just a ball on a canvas, on a black canvas with a ball. Yeah. That's the concentration. That's a good idea, Jack. Yeah, I might do that. Put that in the toilet. That's... You can have it. Right. And that's the focus, and you zoom out and you come back in. But so the intensity of that is critical, the intensity. Sometimes you think you're concentrating, you're not.

52:02Michael Vaughan: No. I reckon that piece of art should be on every dressing room in the world. Well, that's what it is. I never thought of that. Just focus on that one. You've got to do it and then do prints. Yeah, I'll have to do it. And we'll all take a little bit of a cut of it, shall we? We'll give him to the club. You're in film. You're talking about his house and where he lives and all that business. I'm more relaxed now, but honestly. But now and again, he'll... I'm up in York. I'll get a call. I'm up in York if you're around. Anyway, I've got a painting, one of his. He's down an alleyway. I mean, you know what York's like?

52:36These little alleyways and there's a gaslight. And then there's a lady. That's his missus. He's got her in a key bunch of her. Come and pose for his... Don't stand in the mist. Yeah. That is fantastic.

52:51Michael Vaughan: That's a great page. I'm relaxed. I'm not telling you. I reckon you might have gone north of the border, haven't you? Oh, my God. How are you? I've gone north. How did you know that? I've got spies everywhere. I've gone a little bit north. To be fair, he was at Dickie Bird's funeral. Yeah. Did I let it slip? You didn't tell me where. You just said I've gone a bit further north. Yeah, I was looking. I was looking. Yeah, we're looking further north. what about so keepers back in the day who did you admire and who do you admire in this era yeah other than English well he said he said not he not in Bob Taylor yeah about the modern keep I'm going to talk a bit of English because I think they need I thought Matt pry was when he was in his 30s was the best in the world batsman keeper well for a period I think he was yeah I think he He was and I overlapped with Fozzie a little bit.

53:48I thought he went to a level, Fozzie at Essex. He was catching balls, nicks off bouncers and full tosses. Now to do that, we're talking about the concentration, the intensity, he was at a level that not many have reached.

54:04Sir Alastair Cook: He was the best I saw standing up just for that. He did, he caught a bounce and he caught a full toss, bottom edge. I saw it. Bottom edge, full toss, Graham Napier, I'm pretty sure it was Napes. Yes, quick. He was 84, 85. It might have been, could bowl a bit quicker. And to do that, I thought. But he had his own style. You couldn't, you know, his own way of doing it. That's hand-eye, that's intensity. That's the... If I was talking to the youngsters, I would try and help them concentrate and learning how to do that. Because that took me two years to learn to concentrate in county cricket before I stopped making mistakes.

54:36I learned how to do it. A lot of it was relaxation. Went to New Zealand. I had two years in the first team at Gloucester. Every time I dropped a ball, people were on your back. I'm not knocking it, it was just a hard school. And then I went to New Zealand and played club cricket on my own. I actually went with Brodie, Chris Broad, playing at the same club. I learnt to relax. There was no... Pressure wasn't there. I just learnt my technique, which I copied a lot of Bob Taylor. You couldn't copy Alan Knott. But I learnt a lot from there. Healy? Healy... Right, let's go back to the question. Healy, yeah.

55:13Healy's last trip here, he was really good. But all the Aussie keepers struggle here. And I know why. They haven't asked me, but I know why. Don't tell him. Don't tell him. I'm not going to tell him. I'm not going to tell him. Shane Warne said Healy every time. Yeah, no, he was to Warne, because that's the ultimate. Because you've got a ball going three ways.

55:32Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. Instead of, you're right, because you're hard work. But you're one or the other way. Yeah. So Healy definitely. Sorry, Jack. Is Healy then picking that from the hand? You read it, you just get a visual. Get a feel. There won't be any signals, I don't think. No. They might have said there would have been. He just read it. He could tell the slight differences. But that comes over time. You know, that's a time thing. You've got to know your bowlers. Donnie? What do you think? Donnie, in certain bits he does well. He's a bit of a natural. He just does it.

56:08Michael Vaughan: Yeah. Makes it look easy. Takes the ball to the stump. Yeah, and he's just... He's natural. Just trying to think who we've got recently. Alex Carey up to the stomps in the winter. He did a great job. Yeah. He did a great job. You sent me a message. Did I? Yeah. You sent me a message. I'd message you and you'd come back. It's too deep. Yeah. Yeah? Do you remember? Yeah, yeah. Oh, stood up. He was too deep stood up. Yes. Too deep stood up. Too deep stood up? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. He sent me a message. He said it's too deep. Yeah, so if you can get your fingers next to the line, in line with the front.

56:44I come back and said, Dorney. Yeah. Dorney's right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you, in the modern era, when you've got, every frame's on one of those is important. If you can't get, you know, you need to shorten that time. So if you've come back that much, six inches, that might be a frame. So you've got to get right up close to the line. You can put your fingers in front, but don't knock when the ball's coming down. Peter Williard, Peter Williard, he was going to say, Peter Williard, home one day he kept rollicking me I'm gonna call a no-boy you know I'm gonna call no bucks I was trying to get so close to save time yeah but that's a confidence thing that's confidence and I mean I would have been I'd have been like Kerry in my early days because it's a you know but it's sort of still too deep you just want to give yourself more time when I give yourself because you want to see it you gave me some more time also stood back but the more

57:34Sir Alastair Cook: aggressive you get the better are best up in our source nurse is take Dean Jones yeah that's the small yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah a lot of people there's two things that i get mentioned a lot yeah there's three actually the hat uh that's stumping yeah and joannesburg with

57:58Michael Vaughan: that is that get yeah oh yeah oh there's a great picture of you now yeah yeah but the stumping was Gladstone Stoney turned around The other end I didn't ask him I just Because Dean was being He was He was down the pitch All the time Total pain in the rear Right So I thought I can't I'm not having that I can't And I just I thought I'm going up And I didn't ask Gladstone You're supposed to ask the bowler Really No I just He said He said I don't know if you thought His career was finished I don't know what it was But he was And then a ball or two later He just did it And people think it was planned It wasn't Because if it was just a natural thing but those are easier than actually keeping someone like Tuffer's

58:40Sir Alastair Cook: righty on 99 yeah we had to wait about half an hour didn't we got it in my chest you were there you were there you were there

58:51Michael Vaughan: what about I've been everywhere Jack what about Alex Carey to Johnny Bester at Lord's oh see if you watch it he throws it before Bairstow walks. So, you know, I've got to say to Johnny, dumb. Johnny, sorry, Johnny. I love him. I love him a bit. I think he's a great career. But I don't think, you know, we always used to go, I'll just double check and then go. So I blame Johnny. So the reason I ask is when you were at Gloucester, your team would push the boundaries of doing what was inside the law, but it would be pushed. Shenanigans. I'm with that as well. Yeah, I did it a few times. Yeah. Like for Walshy.

59:36If they were like wandering around like you might have been, I don't know, or they were trying to do something to somebody and I was stood back and they were trying to cover the movement or something, I would just throw the odd ball. I would throw the odd one. I'd never hit it, but I would just throw it. Just so it would, and just, oh, hang on a minute, and just affect them a little bit and come back. Have I evaded that question or have I answered it?

59:58Michael Vaughan: No, you basically said you'd have done the same. I thought it was a great piece of skill. The thing was, he just did it out of doing it. I think he just did it out of natural. He'd done it a few times. I think he'd done it a few balls before or something. So I don't know.

1:00:10Sir Alastair Cook: They've spoken about it, haven't they? They've spoken about it. Yeah, and he just forgot to turn around, didn't he, old John? Yeah, but you just... Even when it went to the keeper and the slip, they would throw it to slip, you'd make sure it had gone to slip before you'd walk and just do a bit of gardening. So that's just my opinion.

1:00:25Michael Vaughan: What did you make of someone like Jamie Smith, playing for England Test cricket, not keeping for Surrey. He hasn't done a great deal of keeping, but he's England's keeper. When you look at that, do you look at that and think, the skill of what the keeping job is, we're disrespecting it in a way. I don't think it's right. I was lucky, I played county cricket. I had two years to work it out before you get into that pressure cooker. And then when you get in there, it's just a case, well, I'm just catching a ball anyway, so forget everything else and just catch that. And my first four series was an Ashes 89.

1:01:03So I just think you haven't got any in the fall back on when the pressure's on. You've got to have a foundation to deal with the pressure because you've got something to focus on to deflect it and try and be as natural and comfortable as you can. And Josh Butler did the same. He learned his trade really at international level. So I feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for them because they're not getting the time to learn the... I'm all for getting him in, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying don't put him in, but...

1:01:31Michael Vaughan: Give him a bit more time. I don't think you can criticise him. No, it's not his fault. He didn't pick me. Sorry, when he makes a mistake, don't criticise him because technically there was a couple of things he could sort out. But you do have to criticise him. They don't have a keeping coach, do they, England? French used to do a lot of Matt Bryant. Yeah, but recently they haven't had one. Have England ever run you up? to come and discuss keeping to some... Look, I'm not saying the first team, but there's that many pathway programmes now. Have they ever thought or rung you up? I was with you 2005, remember?

1:02:07Because I looked after Jonesy. Yeah, yeah. But I just looked after Jonesy, which was great fun for that brilliant series. It's important to have a wicket-keeping coach in an elite squad. I think it's important to have a coach. You touched on it a bit earlier. We're sort of slightly different people.

1:02:28Michael Vaughan: We've spoken about on this show, if you've got a batting coach that you really like, when you get to the next level, you'd want to work with that same person. They know you because they know you. You need that relationship. Something that we did really well, we said to our players, if you want a batting coach or if it's not this guy, that's absolutely fine. Bring somebody in. We had Notty then. Yes. So Notty would come in and I could work with Notty which was great. Do you remember that time? And Stewie would work with Notty. Stewie, yeah. And do you remember that time Old Trafford when you were coaching and we were doing pre-tour for a few days and he said, could you ring up Travis Perkins for us and ring up the local building suppliers because I need a ton of sand.

1:03:09Do you remember that? Yeah. This is before the West Indies because he wanted to make the surface in the indoor school, get plywood and sand down to make the surfaces.

1:03:19Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, different. Make some sandcastles because you go to the West Indies and go on the beach. Lovely, yeah. That's what I thought. That's the degree of detail that somebody like Notte would learn from. If you look at Premier League football or any football, they would have coaches, specialists with that individual. Defence coach, goalkeeping coach, attacking coach, wing coach. I think it's so important. But what we've seen from the England, he wanted to, the main coach, Brendan McCullough, wanted to strip it back and not have so many people around. But it's particularly in your preparation time, that's when you need your coach.

1:03:58Perhaps during the match, he might be watching it.

1:04:02Michael Vaughan: Well, maybe Baz was a keeper himself, so maybe he's done a little bit of... Yes. The preparation for each game is different. You're going to Lourdes, you've got the sightseeing that big, and it does a fair bit, and you're stood quite close, and you need to practice, you need to get into a rhythm for that, the days leading up. I think it's important. It's crucial. And also, the other thing is, it's nice just to pick the phone. I get keepers now ring me up and say, can you just have a watch? How did they get your number? Well, they've got... Dark web. They won't give you the number. How did you get hold of me?

1:04:32Direct message on X. Direct message me and I'll ring you back. But isn't it, Jack, isn't it... On an unknown member. Isn't it a... If you're playing international sport, it's a checklist. that it's a confidence thing that this is my man, I work with him. Tennis players work with an individual coach. So a wicketkeeper or any other player just have a checklist. Am I looking? I would have a look, yeah, you look fine. Just pay attention to this, work on that. See, when we were in the West Indies, although the board wouldn't let him out there because of the expense of doing it, I could ring him any time.

1:05:07He'd watch and I'd ring him. Who's that? Notty. And Stewie would ring us. We'd ring him up. Say, look, have you seen anything? Sometimes he would ring you. Notty was expensive. Oh, yeah, no. Yeah. But he was good. He was the best. He was good. So I feel you need to meet a call at the end of a... I've got a problem. I don't feel quite right. Can you have a look? Can you watch a few books? Can I send you some video?

1:05:30Michael Vaughan: Yeah. And it's just that backup. I don't care how... Even later in my career, I would still speak to Notty.

1:05:40Sir Alastair Cook: Even when things are going well. Even when things are going well. It's just that dialogue. Have you seen anything? Is there anything? And Brayshaw was good. Gucci and Alex Stewart would ring Geoffrey, boycott, stab a look. Have you any thoughts? We had him one pre-tour at Lillyshaw. Boyce came in for a few days. The run, Lillyshaw run. Was it not at Headingley? I did some work. That would have been a different one. Eddie Lee went to the West Indies and he had the ballers running off 16 yards, banging it in, whacking it in. And at Lillyshire. At Lillyshire, through Mickey. With Mickey Stewart.

1:06:22Michael Vaughan: Jack, who would you have as England's test keeper this summer? Ooh, hello, come on. I'm happy with Smith. Yeah? I'm happy with Smith. I think he's a brilliant batter. Yeah. He's such a powerful... You're looking at balance, aren't you? balance the team when he didn't get picked for England you just look at our 8 9 10 11 yeah all

1:06:45Sir Alastair Cook: right I was there yeah that was a fall I would I would I was why not why it's good give me the

1:06:56Michael Vaughan: alternative juicy do you think yes so yeah he'll play for Surrey preseason got early you've got you've got folks and you've got Smith I'm guessing folks will keep yeah so So your England wicket-keeper won't keep through his counting? There's something not right about that.

1:07:09Sir Alastair Cook: Has he got to go somewhere else? Maybe he's got to go. He's got to get the balls under him. Yeah, you've got to do it. But he's still learning. The guy's got nappies on, he's still learning. He's right at the start of his career, so he's going to make mistakes.

1:07:21Michael Vaughan: Because Ben Foulkes is a... Oh, he's the most naturally gifted keeper in the world at the moment. Yeah. You can't really coach him, he does it his own way. Without question, yeah. And he's not the worst batter in the world, is he? He's got a... 130 odd. He's not the aggressive type. So we're coming back to this. I talk to keepers now. It's not about how many runs you score. It's how you score them. There's that. Jordan Cox.

1:07:49Sir Alastair Cook: One thing I... One thing... Sorry. Go on. We'll throw the lad. Is it a Rue down at Somerset? Yeah, there's two Rues down there. There's two. I've heard he's very good, but I've not seen him. Which one? Which Rue? James Rue is a wicketkeeper. Thomas, he's a 17. They're both excellent. the perfects. So I keep an eye on those. Yeah. Another thing. Yeah. What? Keepers are your engine, aren't they? They're the engine in the field. In the field. I know he's done this. You go on about coaches, it's a false economy not to have a keeping coach because there is so much, he's so central to everything. Yeah.

1:08:22Sir Alastair Cook: I know there's only one or two of them, but it's money well spent. And if that guy gets it right, look at what happens when that guy doesn't get it right. It can cost you serious.

1:08:33Michael Vaughan: But it's not, For me, and I might just blow and smoke up you as a keeper, but I've always felt that wicket keepers are actually the best people to have in the dressing room because you've had to concentrate every day of your life because you're in the game all the time. So you're seeing the whole picture. So it's not necessarily about just, you know, go and coach the keeper over there. I've always felt that wicket keepers bring a massive amount to the whole team. It's more than just catching that. Because you see batters as well. You see what batters are doing. Yeah, and it's your job to advise.

1:09:01You see bowlers.

1:09:01Michael Vaughan: You see everything. And you can see it in the little, you don't see from cover or mid-off.

1:09:07Sir Alastair Cook: I'd go to Snow about pace, about line, what's he doing, what's the batsman looking at, coming out, get your chin further down the wicker. He was almost looking at my action. You used to get that, didn't you? I used to say, don't change the fly. Don't change the fly, you know what I mean? Don't change the fly. But what you're saying about the keeper, James Smith, is this kind of character, so quiet and he tries to just do his job. Actually, the keeper, you do need to be... I was quiet at the start of my career. But you weren't, though. He will. He has to. Because we were there watching that and we saw in the field, it looked at certain times, the side looked disinterested, didn't it?

1:09:41Sir Alastair Cook: He looked disinterested. He wasn't disinterested. Walking. His body language. Walking. You're talking about your glory days of Gloucester. It was running down the pit. And it's driven by the key. But Matty Pryor, when we got number one in the world, he was driving. You're the leader of the band, aren't you? And you have to. And even if it's not your character. That's probably a fair comment. If it's not your character, you have to make it your character. Yes. We had Warren Hegg for a long, long time. Brilliant, Heggie, brilliant. Terrific, you know, aggressive batter. Yeah. You know, he just did the job.

1:10:08And it was interesting when we had Akram at one end and when we brought Flint off into the team, young kid, 17, 18, Warren, I would coach at the time, Warren would come to me and he said, this lad's hitting the gloves harder than Akram. So that makes it, yeah. He said, this new lad, he didn't really know him. So your wicketkeeper is giving you knowledge.

1:10:33Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, eyes and ears. But I would argue for Smith at the moment, he's still sorting his game out. So it's hard to add that when your game's not quite... When that's all sorted, all the jigsaw pieces are in place, then you can start adding the other bits. So in his defence, but you are absolutely dead right, he needs to add that to his game. Not sure when he's going to do it, but he can start developing it, can't he? But it is such a critical part. But Stewie's with him. Stewie's club, but he's not keeping wicket. That's a big problem, he's not keeping.

1:11:07Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Jack, we've finished the show with some community questions. Oh, right. So you've got to answer a few questions that have been sent in. Oh, OK, that's great. The first one's quite an interesting one. Where's it from? I think it's from Dave in York. Yeah. Did you really drive wearing a sleeping bag?

1:11:32Yeah. And do you know I'll tell you why? Can I give you the reason? Please do, please do. In a sentence, basically, you're fielding all day, quick shower, get in the car, zoom off to the next game because you're playing next day, get in the car, drafty car, stiffen up, next morning, stiff back, can't play so well, can't move. So stay warm.

1:11:53Sir Alastair Cook: How did you get your feet on the pedals? Yeah, no, you got your feet at the end.

1:12:00Michael Vaughan: Oh Brilliant Someone's asked are you who's asked this? It says Alistair from near Woburn Yeah, he's got a farm. Yeah, yes Are you happy with County cricket at the minute? No, I'm not happy with it. Yes, but I'm not happy with the way it's been treated because I think it's getting marginalised. I think it'll come back to bite us. I feel sorry for county cricket. I think it's one of the greatest things on the planet. Oh, me too. Honestly, and it's not just the cricket. It's like a way of life for a lot of people that aren't even at the ground. The tentacles go out. It's a way of life. There's a lot of people that love it.

1:12:45There's a lot of people that love it that can't get to the cricket, but they can watch it on stream. I mean, there's a million-odd people who watched stream county cricket last year or the year before. I'm all for county cricket. I love county cricket. It's been so good to me. I don't think I could have got anywhere near where I have without county cricket. And to lose it or to see it being... Marginalised. Marginalised is probably the right one.

1:13:08Michael Vaughan: I know you're frustrated by the 100, aren't you? I haven't got a problem with the 100. I play as many tournaments as you like. Just don't throw away August. But I don't know how you work the equation out. Surely you can still pay county cricket, can you? When it's going on? Why not? It's the best time to play. Why not? I think that's going to be the answer. Play a couple of four days around that time. The thing is, two weeks get into September. September's lovely. And all is not at school. Play when school kids can go. Even if the 100 is on, and I know Surrey wouldn't like it because they have loads of players go off, but still play, still play some games because other guys are going to get opportunity.

1:13:45You might turn around and say, well, the standard might go. But they're playing, aren't they? You only learn by playing. so I've got I've never said don't have the hundred what I've said is quite angrily at times is for God's sake stop trying to destroy county cricket it's a

1:13:59Michael Vaughan: gem it's a gem oh it is a gem yeah fair point last question what's your favorite breed of dog mine's cockapoo is it yeah I've got a cockapoo I'm not into dogs much I don't know that Russell yeah you like that you like It's not my name.

1:14:17Sir Alastair Cook: It's not his name. Did we let our dogs loose, Jack? Yeah. There, go Fox Cherries. I'll tell you what I love. Remember Blue Peter? Yes. Shep. Oh. Because they're working dogs. They're working dogs. You'll have a badge. And they're intelligent. You'll have a Blue Peter badge, won't you? I would go for one of those. Have you?

1:14:36Michael Vaughan: You'll have a Blue Peter badge.

1:14:37Sir Alastair Cook: I've never got a Blue Peter badge.

1:14:39Michael Vaughan: You've got a Blue Peter badge. Have you? No. I've got a Blue Peter badge. What year was that? coaching the England cricketer? No, nearly. When we introduced, do you remember Quick Cricket? K-W-I-K. Yes. Which was networked with plastic equipment for primary schools. We took it on to Blue Peter. I've got a badge. Oh, well done. I think you were for Peter Purves. Yeah, Peter Purves. Oh, yeah.

1:15:04Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, John Noakes. John Noakes. I don't know where else...

1:15:06Michael Vaughan: Get it down, Shep. John Noakes. Johnny Noakes. Get it down, Shep. Jack. Thank you. Have your gloves back. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, brilliant. I enjoyed it. Really great. Good to see you all.

1:15:26Sir Alastair Cook: Gosh, brought back some memories.

1:15:28Michael Vaughan: Good, wasn't it?

1:15:28Sir Alastair Cook: Just wait one more for the chat. Did you get Lara out? Yeah. So you didn't. Got him in the end, didn't he? Caught back now. I've got a caught back pad. 203. 60. I don't know. I'm flat ass. I thought my book silly point. Silly point. I don't remember. Silly point. Yeah, I do. Well, did it go down leg side? No, no. Offside? Outside edge? Yeah. Outside edge, it didn't even go through the gate. Yeah, I lost it. I lost it. What years are you worst noticed? I'll tell you what, it was all right, wasn't it?

1:16:21Michael Vaughan: Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. With so much uncertainty in the economy, we need to rely on experts we can trust. So Money, hosted by me, Farnoosh Tarabi, is a Webby award-winning podcast now in its 10th year. The New York Times calls it one of the most respected personal finance shows out there. As a financial journalist for more than 20 years and bestselling author, let me tell you, it is a privilege to produce this show. And whether you want to save more, invest, or negotiate a better salary, I've got you covered with fresh episodes three times a week.

1:16:59And here's something extra. I'm giving away a free money call to one lucky listener every week, A chance for you and I to talk one-on-one and create a personal plan for your goals. Listen and subscribe to So Money wherever you get your podcasts.

1:17:33Michael Vaughan: us a five-star review and help others find it too. See you next time!