Kevin Sinfield: Ultra Marathon Mindset & Running for Rob Burrow | Stick to Cricket EP 14

0:00Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. This ad is sponsored by ZocDoc. Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. Have you been putting off that annual doctor's appointment because you don't want to make the call? Or maybe you've been meaning to find a new dentist, but you have no idea where to start. I find that's especially true when you move. It's hard to find your people. I've been there, which is why I use ZocDoc. Now, as a busy podcaster, parent, and someone who's always juggling a million things, I love anything that makes life easier.

0:34And ZocDoc lets you search and compare local in-network doctors with over 250 ,000 providers across more than 200 specialties. You can read reviews from real patients, find a provider who feels like the right fit, see actual appointment openings, and book instantly. I recently had a last-minute health issue pop up and needed to see someone fast. and instead of calling around or sitting on hold, I found a doctor on ZocDoc and booked an appointment in just a few minutes. It made the whole process so much less stressful. Now taking care of your health just got easier. Download the ZocDoc app today.

1:08That's ZocDoc, Z-O-C-D-O-C and book that appointment on your to-do list. Your next unforgettable experience can happen anytime. Take an Amex card with you for rewards wherever you go. Morning coffee run with an old friend? Earn cash back. Weekend getaway? Earn miles. Amex rewards your inner explorer. Learn more at AmericanExpress.com. Terms apply. You've got social dialed in. Search is doing its thing. So why do your marketing results look the same as six months ago? That's because you're fishing in the same pond as everyone else. Podcast listeners are a different audience entirely. More engaged, harder to reach through traditional channels, and ready to act when someone they trust makes a recommendation.

1:48We're Acast, and we put them right in front of you. Browse thousands of the world's leading podcasts, book host reads or run your own ads, and track every conversion in real time. Same skills you already have, brand new results. Acast. Acast.com slash advertise.

2:22Phil Tufnell: Coffee we got coffee. Where's that ball? Yeah one please just white coffee's great

2:29Michael Vaughan: Yeah, thank you. Get your bat. What get your bat? Back get the bat. Yes, I see Kevin his stance. Oh, okay. Yeah, the first thing we do Where's the orange yellow ball gone?

2:40Phil Tufnell: What number are you? Tuffers does all our things. So you've got I've never been a number.

2:44Michael Vaughan: You've not been a number. Got it. Got it. Give him a bat. Let's see what he looks like Phil will give you a few tips, Kev. Just to stand in front of you. I'll probably hold it like a... I'll bowl from up here usually, don't I? He's got it. Look at that. I come like Kirtley Ambrose from a bit high. There you go. Oh, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. Just one ball with the orange.

3:07Phil Tufnell: We know Satsu. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, nice shot. Very good. Thank you. You're in. You're in. How are we, lads? We good? Good. Thank you. How do you think Kat would go at rugby? They'd be going to be... You've played a bit of rugby, haven't you? Never in my life.

3:25Michael Vaughan: I thought you went to a posh school. No, yeah, but they didn't play rugby. Slow light. Well, give over your posh school. Of course it played rugby. No, they didn't. No, no. I don't think there's a... Slow light and a bit of a coward. So I don't think there's a position for me. I might be the bloke who drives the tea on.

3:44Wing a little wing, wouldn't you? I love washing it. Love washing it. Love washing the lions. Yeah, obviously Matt Dawson's mate of mine as well loved it loved it with him and Yeah, enjoy watching the rugby.

3:55Phil Tufnell: I love it. I don't know what's going on because I come from an area that didn't have rugby from Accrington Blackburn Burnley. Yeah, you were the footy. Well just watch it Christ. Yeah, Jesus You can you go to the match and you can hear a boom. Oh, I know Massive now, I'm Terry McDermott. No, not Terry. Yeah, Barry McDermott He used to play for Liverpool. That's it. Barry McDermott. I used to knock about with Alex Murphy, who back in the day were Crosquhans. Alex Murphy. Yeah. Proper. I like him in the Barbers. Yeah. Propping me up. Do you remember him, Alex Murphy? I do, yeah. Jesus. Murph. I thought he was.

4:34Phil Tufnell: He had greyhounds. He had some greyhounds. But his missus didn't know he had greyhounds. But where'd he keep him? In a greyhound keeper. A greyhound keeper? A kennel. A kennel. Yeah. You know what, in a trainer. In a trainer? What, massive shoe? No. They were proper greyhounds. Racing ones? Yeah. Do you remember Wade Dooley? Yeah, policeman. Put the kick off. He used to be a policeman in Blackpool. He was a policeman. Yeah. Absolutely, Wade Dooley, have a look. Wade Dooley, policeman Blackpool. Yeah, no, absolutely. Definitely. There were Alex Murphy, there were Billy Boston, all them. What were he called?

5:20Phil Tufnell: Vince Correlius. Is this rugby league? Vince Correlius. Is this rugby league? Good knowledge. Yeah, man. Vince Correlius. Vince Correlius. He played for St Talens, isn't he? Gladiator. St Talens. Billy Boston, Wigan. He's just been knighted. One of your lot. Is he a lord of the realm? He was nicknamed the Blackpool Tower. Wade Dooley. I'm telling you.

5:40Michael Vaughan: Yep.

5:41Phil Tufnell: Wade Dooley. Six feet, eight inches.

5:43Michael Vaughan: That's him. Police officer with Lancashire.

5:45Phil Tufnell: Yeah, and he played at the same time as Frank Cotton, Steve Smith, Tony Bond. Are you making a name? What's he called? Billy Beaumont. He's a big Lancashire creative fan, isn't he? Yeah. You need him on your board. His uncle, Captain Lancashire, Joe Blackledge. Yeah, I'll tell you something. That's his uncle. You don't need to look, I'm telling you. the the two still brothers Sid and Stan I'm still hey Kev what's what's everybody doing these days he's lively no it's noise is a gentleman all right yeah he's yeah last time so oh probably probably early to 21st so 20 odd years Well, he was my hero growing up.

6:39Yeah. So that great Wigan team. And part of the reason I ended up signing at Leeds, actually, because he was at the Rhinos at the time. And I just, yeah. And he then went to Australia when the Super League war happened. Played over there for a number of years. And when I finally got to meet him, you know, they said, don't meet your heroes. Yeah. Because you'd be disappointed. I met Ellery and I was like, this guy is amazing. Brilliant. So he spends all his time now playing squash and tennis and enjoying life. Does he play paddle tennis? I bet he does, yeah. Oh, give him a game.

7:13Michael Vaughan: I bet he does, yeah. Mike's very good at paddle. He used to take us to this pub up in... Was it Meanswood? Technic. What's the pub that all the rhinos used to be there on a Sunday night? It used to be a great night. A bit before me, that. That's for sure. At Meanwood? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, fantastic. Gary Schofield. Well, there used to be a pub in town on the way into Leeds City Centre. on the kind of on the road in bottom road you go straight into town there used to be a pub on the right that Gary used to always be in and they always used to live in there Arnie's side bottom Arnie? Arnie was in the Yorkies they used to mix it used to be a mix I mean when we used to play for the Yorkies on Friday night when you used to play and the cameras were in our dressing room because you obviously had the cameras in your dressing room so we'd finish the game and they'd be dressed getting dressed at the far end you had a little lounge didn't you yeah and then used to have to swap over with us yeah did you ever look at also and kind of go look at these scrunch i couldn't believe how much room you took up with your bags bags are massive aren't they yeah massive what did you just have boots just boots yeah just a little rucksack with boots and tape

8:25Phil Tufnell: gum shield and that's it yeah off you go gum shield there yeah there you go i've seen you do them kicks as well how do you do those what's that kick with the kicks back the posts so they go here yeah yeah I don't even remember a guy called Frano Bottica yes he signed for Wigan back in the early 90s and he brought a new kicking style out and everybody followed it so I'd have been 12 or 13 at the time and it just followed suit and everybody in sort of league at that time you know We're kicking on sand. A lot of viewers won't remember you're kicking on sand because everyone kicks off a kicking tee now.

9:05Bucket of sand used to come on and make the mound. That's where you went.

9:11Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. So just hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

9:23Sat outside my local pub with a kebab just to get the calories in. Nobody sees any of that.

9:29Michael Vaughan: What is the key ingredient for sustained success? In one word, discipline.

9:35Phil Tufnell: I don't... He's done. He's done. Sorry, Matt. Sorry, Kat. Why has he not been knighted? He's got one. Embarrassed now. I remember getting in bed that first night, sort of thinking to myself, we've got our target already. Do we have to do the other six? What's your running style? I've never seen it. I've seen it. Let's have a look. I don't like doing it. You're not finding something you do like? Well, yeah, that's going down the pub. Perhaps I could do it down the pub. The guy who was in our team was the first one. He's an 11-year-old, signed for Wigan for 20-odd grand. And he buys himself a parrot.

10:20Phil Tufnell: When you were at school, were you always going to be a rugby player? From a what? Teenage? Early teenage? I was an Oldham Athletic fan growing up. Right. Because I'm from Oldham. And then I started to play rugby league. I didn't know rugby union existed. I didn't know there were two courts, but Oldham is a rugby league town. So I went to my local club and back then, rugby was a bit like what football is now. You could sign pro very early. I signed pro at 13. 13? And that's why when you asked me about having a cricket bat, like, if you think, from 13, I was on a pathway to be a pro rugby league player.

10:59So other sports, although they encouraged us to play other sports, I spent all my time trying to train to be a better rugby league player, but I loved playing football at school. What position? That was... What position? Played up front. Played up front. Up front. Yeah. Stryker. Stryker, yeah.

11:14Michael Vaughan: What does a 13-year-old rugby league contract look like? We get paid. Really? Yeah. Or you did back then, you don't know. Right. So they changed the rulings on it. You can't get paid now to T16, but back then, I mean, there were guys getting thousands. The guy I played with, I tell you this story, we were playing for Lancashire under-12s, and a guy who was in our team, he was the first one, he was an 11-year-old, signed for Wigan for 20-odd grand. A year? This is going back to... Yeah, 70. 92, 93, right? For 20-odd grand. and he buys himself a parrot

11:56and at the time you may you might remember but everyone wearing shell suits but yeah and then these jog suits came out though there was matching job bottoms and top and Nike Air Max do you remember everyone had these matching were they poppers as well or not what is that but I don't know poppers down the side of your yeah they were still around then they were still around yeah and he bought It must have emptied his JD out. He had all these different tracksuits turn up for Lancashire training and he bought his parrot and Left his bedroom window open it flew away. Oh, he bought another one And you think he learned his lesson, but yeah, after his bedroom window open it flew away again, but didn't bother because he was So you had our playing with lads who were suddenly from sort of working-class Northwest towns who were getting given thousands and Wow.

12:44Which blowing money as teenagers. Did any of them make it? You know, that's an early age. Yeah, well, that's why they changed some of the rulings on it because clubs were just throwing money at kids and there weren't many coming through. Actually, from my age group, there's probably only three or four that went on and had good careers. Like, sort of ten years playing regular first-team rugby. the amount of thousands of clubs wasted back then. I'll tell you what he should have done. He should have bought himself a pigeon, not a parrot.

13:20Michael Vaughan: Did they come back? Correct. You know Marty Panassar had a parrot? Did he? Absolute true story, this. I'm captain. Can't remember what year it is. We've been playing. Go on. And I'm sat in my garden in Derbyshire. It's a Sunday. These parrots are out. No, no. True story. And with all my family, mum and dad, we're all sat around having a barbie. My phone kept on ringing. And it was Monty. And I kept on looking, not answering to any players on a Sunday. Eventually, it's probably about the fourth time, my dad says, you're going to have to answer, it could be a problem. So I've answered the phone.

13:52Michael Vaughan: Monty, what's up? He went, Skippy said, I've got a problem. I said, what's your problem, Monty? He said, my parrot, Gary. It's gone missing. I said, Monty, I'm in Derbyshire, where are you? He said, I'm in Luton. I said, what the fuck am I going to do about your parrot that's gone missing? I said, well, he said, I thought you might know someone who'd get it back. Get off. That's all my life.

14:16Phil Tufnell: Do you know that Daryl went missing? The pal of mine where I used to live down Bramhall, he was a tasty character, John Joe, I won't tell you his last name. He had two parrots as security outside. So if anybody turns up, they squirt like fuck. Yeah, geese like that. Geese are like that.

14:34Michael Vaughan: You're going to see them, aren't you? You know, parrots aren't going to hurt you.

14:37Phil Tufnell: No, he knows when they start going, kicking off, that there's somebody around. Were they carrying, the parents? Did they used to carry?

14:45Michael Vaughan: Were they carrying? Cage fighting, it's not for me, though. Adam Olyoak tried that. He did, he got hammered, didn't he? Yeah, he's a tough boy. Yeah, he is, yeah. There's been some rugby players that have gone in the ring, haven't there? Yeah. Sonny Bill? Sonny Bill, yeah. Another Aussie called Paul Gallen. He's fought recently, hasn't he, or is he fighting? He fought Paul Gallen. Right. Who, I think he got beat actually. Who did? Sonny? Sonny, yeah. Sonny Bill Williams. Biggest biceps in the world. Yeah, big man.

15:14Phil Tufnell: He used to turn up at all the cricket in Australia, in the con box. When I was working for Channel 9, he'd always come in. Sonny Bill? Yeah. Definite, yeah. Seemed a nice fella, aren't you? He was a nice guy. Nice guy. A nice guy.

15:27Michael Vaughan: Yeah. I reckon of all the cricketers, there's only really Smokey, Adam Oliop, that could have got in the ring. Big Fred. Oh, Fred, he had that one bout, didn't he? I'm bowing Manchester. He will like

15:36Phil Tufnell: He will like helicopter only he got many McGuigan's got him. You know use your job use your job friend. He went in the ring and he Well, I think he said he was bowling No, I think it didn't he say that he said the first punch you did he sort of detached his bicep or something Yeah, captured his bicep and then he went when he went what did he do try not that thing? He went to America WWE WWE and got a massive contract and his wife said, do you really want to do this? No. The fitness in your game must be crazy. I mean, the boys are big now. Yeah. So both courts. So I'll talk about rugby and I'm passionate about both courts.

16:20I only played rugby union for a very short period of time. Yeah, the boys are fit. Yeah. And they work incredibly hard. You know, that's the great thing about being an ex-player and still being around it because I love high performance And I love being around people who want to make the best of themselves and the lads are the lads are great I think there's both chords like to be able to what I've always wondered is after you know like the boys You know I don't watch a bit rugby and what have you know, but after a game, you know, I mean you've got knees You know me elbows Ow!

16:59You've got about a six foot eight fella trampling all over your head. I mean, then you'll have a drink and a cup of tea. Yeah, I know. And they're all in the dressing rooms together having a beer afterwards and swapping shirts.

17:12Michael Vaughan: Does that happen after every test? Yeah. Or is it the end of it if it's a series? So like the Lions in Australia, would they have a beer after every test or would they wait till the end of the series? In cricket, it's the end of the series. No, they'd have had a beer after every test. Yeah. Really?

17:26Phil Tufnell: Yeah. yeah just go and shake hands and they do in that lineup it's very orderly isn't it when the game's finished and and the form lines don't need to shake hands and they come on some of the lads you look at them and they say he's 24 year old he looks about 60 absolutely battered

17:46Michael Vaughan: coming off don't they where are fitness levels in rugby compared to when you play it's a good question this and i actually think when i when i look back at rugby league i actually think i don't sound like one of those old pros right but it might be quite controversial this but i reckon the game was at its fittest in by around 2005 because you had the first influx of science that were guiding whereas the science now dictates so everything's monitored everything's measured everybody's pulled back um so they're incredibly fit and tough and strong um but i reckon we got more out of players back in 2005 than what we do now so and and some of that's great because it's from a welfare perspective we're looking after players we're making sure they're not born unborn all the time and making sure um from an injury point of view they're in better place but actual fitness levels I don't think I think 2005 you probably squeezed everything you could out of a player whereas now I reckon they're just as fit but there's a bit more is that because you know five you wouldn't have had kind of the monitors to be able to monitor the bodies as well as you do now yeah so they were just coming in and but the scientists were still finding the way of what's best for that group of players or that individual and whereas now they've got 20 years of data and research behind it where it helps support and guide.

19:19Are you limited on how much contact you can do in training? Yeah. But how is that governed? Is that just everyone agrees to the code and the governing bodies take it as a word saying you are looking after them? Because I don't understand, you do a training session on Tuesday and it's like, we can only do it 45 minutes. Yeah, it is. from what I understand there isn't any governance on it not like the NFL were the really strict protocols but I think as a coach you understand there's some bits we have to do in the week to get them ready to play but we're quality over quantity so let's get this done in the shortest period of time the safest way possible so that you're ready to play you're in the best because the days of born on born and go in on a Tuesday, it don't work.

20:09You're not going to get that performance on a Saturday if you do that to your players. But you did in 2005? We did an element of it. So this is where League and Union are different. So League had a history of doing very, very little bone on bone. Throughout all my playing career, we did very, very small amounts of it. Union did a lot more. You listen to a lot of the guys. When Union went professional back in 95, 96, they would do a full-on session on a Tuesday where it was worse than a game. And a lot of them were scrapping with mates in training. I didn't see that in league. It might have happened before me, but I very rarely saw any scraps in league in training.

20:50Whereas Union would regularly, each week,

20:53Michael Vaughan: there'd be a scrap somewhere. And what is the training kind of... Does it differ from Union to League? Yeah. And what's the difference in terms of what you do in League to Union? So because it's based around ball and play, so without being too technical here, but ball and play in the game of the league is probably about 60 minutes. Gaming play in Rugby Union is probably about 33, 34 minutes. Both the same 80 minute period, so clearly you have to train them differently. And then you look at a Rugby Union team, you have all sorts of different shapes and sizes. The great thing about the sport, because anybody can play, you can be 4 foot 2 and get a game as a scrum half you can be 6 foot 4 6 foot 8 playing the second row you could be 130 kilos you're a prop so there's a size and shape whereas rugby league is a bit more everybody's similar shape and size and fitness so pace yeah and it's the difference so there's a lot more sort of interval training type work in a league environment where in Union in particular, we'll work on a lot of four-minute blocks of things, of training.

22:09Set plays. And a lot more, yeah. So it's a lot more technical and tactical. When I'm asked to describe or find the differences, it's chess and drafts. So drafts is rugby league. It's fast moving. It's quick. Everybody pretty much does the same job. Whereas chess, you've got all these different pieces that do different things and move in a different way. and he's a bit more technical and tactical Who's the fastest that you've seen? You've got to be

22:33Phil Tufnell: a fast winger haven't you? You've got to be Martin of Fire Jason Robinson Jason Over 10 yards over 20 yards Jason will probably be over the short distances Martin of Fire I worked with a guy in Leicester in England who was just glided a guy called Anthony Watson who was a great player who retired recently Rob Burrow over short distances was incredibly quick a guy called Mark Calderwood just a freak of a 400, 800 metre runner do you know the track up at Leeds Beckett spent a lot of time on there and he would just just fly around yeah so Martin's got a statue he has yeah at Wembley yeah there were Jim Mills as well do you remember him Jim Mills yes I played with Jim's Jim's son David Mills yeah he was the legendary commentator Eddie Wearing

23:29Michael Vaughan: Eddie Wearing Aye aye aye Oh aye aye He missed it Who was the poor fella who missed the kick Was that Leeds? In the mud The two brothers Fox Was it West? Fox Brothers Right in front at Wembley Don Fox

23:45Phil Tufnell: Bullard Bullard Eddie Wearing And Ray French has just passed away very recently Yeah Eddie Wearing He was a lovely fella

23:58Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. Have you been putting off that annual doctor's appointment because you don't want to make the call? Or maybe you've been meaning to find a new dentist, but you have no idea where to start. I find that's especially true when you move. It's hard to find your people. I've been there, which is why I use ZocDoc. Now, as a busy podcaster, parent, and someone who's always juggling a million things, I love anything that makes life easier. And ZocDoc lets you search and compare local in-network doctors with over 250 ,000 providers across more than 200 specialties.

24:29You can read reviews from real patients, find a provider who feels like the right fit, see actual appointment openings, and book instantly. I recently had a last-minute health issue pop up and needed to see someone fast. Instead of calling around or sitting on hold, I found a doctor on ZocDoc and booked an appointment in just a few minutes. It made the whole process so much less stressful. Now, taking care of your health just got easier. Download the ZocDoc app today. That's ZocDoc, Z-O-C-D-O-C, and book that appointment on your to-do list. Here's a tip for you. There's a podcast out there with fans waiting to be your next customer.

25:05They tune in every week, they trust the host, and that host wants to talk about brands like yours in their own words to their audience. The problem is you just haven't been introduced yet. We're Acast, where that introduction happens. as the world's largest podcast marketplace. We let you browse shows, see who's listening, and book host-read sponsorships or run your own ads all from one platform. Transparent pricing, real-time data, complete control. Start advertising on podcasts by visiting acast.com slash advertise.

25:45Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. You mentioned your late great mate Rob. Yep. Can I just read out some of your challenges that you've completed in the last few years? 2020, seven marathons in seven days. 21, 101 mile ultra marathon in 24 hours. 22, seven ultra marathons in seven days. Are you feeling sick yet, Phil? 23, seven marathons plus an extra mile each day. 24 running home for Christmas 230 miles in seven days 225 7 in 7 in 7 challenge announced Are you training? I don't really stop Can I correct you on the second one? Go on 101 miles in 24 hours Was that 104? Because we got lost twice Give it over We had a guy navigating Who got lost twice in South Yorkshire one job he was only with us that year Kev you're getting into the millions of what you're raising obviously Rob is a great guy, is that your driving force?

27:01yeah when we started out and I'll give you the shortened version of the story but Rob got diagnosed and then you want to help him out he's been diagnosed and knowing what Rugby League lads earn and where Rob was. Rob had just started his coaching career and I was back at the Rhinos and I thought the best way we could help him was to get our team back together and raise some money so that whatever happened, he didn't have to worry about any financial issues or problems at home because people who are diagnosed with M &D, 50 % die within two years, a third die within 12 months and none of us knew how long Rob had.

27:39He's got three kids under 10. So he's diagnosed and make him a promise that by the following Christmas, this was Christmas 2019, 19th of December, we went up to meet Doddy Weir. I made him a promise on that journey back that he'd have an amount of money in his bank account the following Christmas morning when he woke up. And then all our team rallied round, Rugby League rallied round, Rugby Union, all the different sports rallied round. And we had a couple of wonderful events that set the fundraising going. and then the craziness it was when Covid came in 2020 you know remember lockdown everything closed off you can only go out your house for an hour a day professional sports stopped and then started again with no crowds and this continued throughout 20 but we got to September 2020 and I knew we were short of the money that I promised him we'd raise so I said right I'm have to do something or at least if I fall short I need him to see me put myself through it so that he knows his mates are around him and that's when we came up with the original seven in seven which by this stage I'd run six marathons mainly for prostate cancer it's a charity that's particularly close to me and never done a back-to-back marathon Rob were number seven so I came up with the idea right I'm going to run seven and seven didn't know whether I could do it BBC got behind us because there was nothing else going on and people felt sorry for us because they had all this furlough money couldn't spend it couldn't go out and eat because Rishi had sent everyone out to eat if you remember and then everyone got Covid and we all got put back in indoors so I put it in Google I wanted people to tackle seriously it's the average time people run marathons less than 50 % do it under four hours so I was like right I'm going to do them all under four hours we announced on BBC breakfast and I got all my I buried my hands right how do I train for this um what do I do target which is 77 ,777 because then I knew we would hit the target for Christmas for Rob and we set out first day with 40 grand we finished day one with 100 grand and I can remember getting in bed that first night and sort of thinking to myself, we've had our target already.

30:00Do we have to do the other six? Do I really have to continue with this? And we did the other six and we raised 2.8 million. And the whole thing was just bonkers. It was bonkers. How do you train for it then? Because I did the Marathon London this one and I loved it. I actually, not the actual marathon, it's horrendous, but actually the training for it when I retired and it was like, gave me something to do. No, I didn't like something mentally to prepare myself. I like something to challenge But how do you like Matt drawing Madison is just totally different running seven or running for 20 a hundred you break four hours?

30:34Yeah Did yes good effort. That's all right. No. Oh yeah, I'm gonna try three what? 316 I did mine. It's good. I think I've I think I've got a bit more in me, so I'm going again.

30:46Michael Vaughan: You're gonna go yeah Yeah, I'm a bit like seven in seven. You should take a sheep with you well Should ride it. Should ride it. I'm tempted to do it. I've always said I want to do a challenge. Like a challenge or something. This is the first time officially I've now announced I want to do something. Well, Rob, when are you starting this one? December. I don't want to jump on his bandwagon. Look, Brodie joined for one stage. He came and joined us. I'm not jumping on Rob's thing. Brodie ran for how long? No, well, a very short amount of time. and he ended up you know like through these when you're out on the road for an amount of time running and it's day after day your mind takes you to the craziest places but Brodie had run a bit and he ended up getting a backy by remember someone gets on the backy by anybody who doesn't know watching it's what we used to say in the 80s giving him a backy on your chopper yeah and the guy you give him a backy is Martin you probably know him actually they owns Ark Inspiration's in a couple of bars.

31:48And he's been great and he's a big supporter of what we've done. And he's on his bike and he's had to stop. And he gives Brodie a backy. Now, Martin must weigh about 115 kilos. And I don't know what Brodie is, but I'd say he was in excess of 100 kilos. And I can remember thinking as this bike turned up in Richmond Park alongside us because it had come... I remember feeling sorry for the wheels of the bike. Because these two big guys were on it. But, yeah, Brodie's joined us. I've walked 600 miles. I just saw it, doing a marathon, loved it. But then how to then go, right, I'm going to train forward.

32:21Michael Vaughan: You did a walk. I did a walk, it was hard work. I joined him from, one of my friends is an ultra marathon runner. He ran, I think he's the fastest time across Australia. Sorry, Alex, what's an ultra marathon? Anything over 26 miles. But I think he's just ran Australia, the fastest European or something to do it. But his first run, it was Land's End to John Greets. I joined him for a day and I joined him for 30 miles and that was like he ran I think six miles in a block six miles in a block and I thought right one day I'll do something but I mean I've now I've now said to everyone I'm gonna have to do it yeah I do want to do it I just I'll join you yeah tough as I'd love you to join I'll join you just even if it's even if it's for 10 yards what running cat I could do a bit well what's your running style I've never seen it I'm a bit like I've seen it

33:15Phil Tufnell: It's not... That or in Jamaica. When we set off, we'd do the training day. We'd start off with a three-mile run. The first thing he said, well, just hang on, I'll get me fags. Oh, there you go. Put them in his pocket. Do you remember that? That's when Mick Jagger turned up. Yes. At the Pegasus in that bar at the back. That's right. Did he think? No, he'd just come in for a drink. Was he on tour, was he? No. No, I think he'd come down and watch the cricket. He might have been on tour. He might have... I'm Argentina. Did a gig in Argentina and nipped in. Jeff's just come back from Argentina. Fine.

33:48Phil Tufnell: Is it nice there? Lovely. It's different. Is it? Yeah, it's different. Well, the part's a bit nice.

33:54Michael Vaughan: Yeah. Nice red wine in Argentina. Ah, it is. Nice steaks. Kev, did you get a nice beer? No. No? I was promised nice red wine. I don't really drink. No. And a really nice steak, but I have to say I didn't get one. No. Of the gauchos, innit? That's what the that's what the Argentine tango did you do the Argentine tango? No, sure.

34:16Phil Tufnell: I just thought you did that Tite Tango, so it's where the gauchos come down in it and there's the normal tango, but then the Argentine one You've got to get your legs all Yeah, I mean it sort of and you're wrapping it all around Tricky, it's tricky tricky especially if you've just been on a horse for like six months on the plains, you know the gauchos come down and do the Argentine Pablo and all them lads Pablo have you done any of them that he's done he won jungle didn't you win the jungle strictly dancing have you been asked to do any of them no I haven't

34:55Michael Vaughan: he's too busy training and coaching he's not like us

35:01Phil Tufnell: who just piss about he's got proper jobs I mean that's a good lesson in the Argentine Tango. Just give him an edge. If you get Strictly,

35:12Michael Vaughan: he'll coach you. Yeah. Of all these challenges, Kev, which has been, I mean, look at, can I guess which was the hardest? Yeah. I mean, seven ultra marathons in seven days. That's my guess of all the ones you've done. 101 day? That's got to be a... Yeah, I'd probably say the 104. Was it? Yeah, and some of that was because I'd changed jobs. I joined Lester Ties. I'd just moved to the rugby union I just didn't have time to train Went in underprepared So I just tried to wing it Really did try and wing it And I did a 12 hour When you asked before about how you trained I did a 12 hour block of the running for the 24 hour one Got up at 2 in the morning Set off at 3 o 'clock from home And back 12 hours later And that was pretty much the training So I knew what 12 hours felt like But when I got to 18, 19, 20 hours What pace?

36:06We were just running about 5.15 per kilometre. Jeez. But by the end, we weren't moving at that pace. Oh, but still alive. I was trying to stay alive. That was, yeah. I think I knew going in because I was told, when you're sleep deprived, everything seems 40 % worse than it is. Yeah. But, yeah, I were in a bad spot on that one. The actual ultras, the longer ones, a lot of it's the travel. Also, because we move around the country and we go to Ireland and we've been in Scotland, the travel after you've, let's say we've done an eight or nine hour run and then you're on a coach for five hours and then you get four hours sleep.

36:46That's the difficulty. The actual running is great fun. Do you stop in that eight or nine hours? Yeah, we stop. Every hour? So depending on which challenge, but the last two we've done, I mean, we've run 7K blocks, so 7K every hour. A bit of food. a bit of food, get a chance to meet the MND community, families come out and see us, and a really good part of it, the best part of it for me is the connection we get with families and people who've lost people decades ago suddenly come out and share in... Yeah. Because the disease MND has been... Yeah, and they've been ignored. Yeah, so, yeah. What a great guy Sid was.

37:30and they've just been left and lost and left to deal with losing someone so quickly and the aftermath about it without sometimes, without even getting a diagnosis. So to be able to pull families together has been the best part of it. Are they any closer to finding a cure for it? They're getting closer and closer. I think with the technology now with AI gives them a real chance. Yeah, I think certainly what I've found is with my dealings and my connection with people in the MND community are they're willing to do anything. But because of how tight some of our drug testing is in the UK, it means it's really difficult for them to get access to.

38:16A lot of repurposed drugs, whereas in America it's very, very different. They pretty much throw everything at you and say, if you've got enough money, they can give it a go. So there's a very different view and approach, depending on which country you're from.

38:59Search and compare local in-network doctors with over 250 ,000 providers across more than 200 specialties. You can read reviews from real patients, find a provider who feels like the right fit, see actual appointment openings, and book instantly. I recently had a last-minute health issue pop up and I needed to see someone fast. Instead of calling around or sitting on hold, I found a doctor on ZocDoc and booked an appointment in just a few minutes. It made the whole process so much less stressful. Now, taking care of your health just got easier. Download the ZocDoc app today. That's ZocDoc, Z-O-C-D-O-C, and book that appointment on your to-do list.

39:37Your next unforgettable experience can happen anytime. Take an Amex card with you for rewards wherever you go. Morning coffee run with an old friend? Earn cash back. Weekend getaway? Earn miles. Amex rewards your inner explorer. Learn more at americanexpress.com. Terms apply. Here's a tip for you. There's a podcast out there with fans waiting to be your next customer. They tune in every week, they trust the host, and that host wants to talk about brands like yours in their own words to their audience. The problem is, you just haven't been introduced yet. We're Acast, where that introduction happens.

40:13As the world's largest podcast marketplace, we let you browse shows, see who's listening, and book host-read sponsorships or run your own ads all from one platform. Transparent pricing, real-time data, complete control. Start advertising on podcasts by visiting acast.com slash advertise.

40:38Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Kev, where do you get your mindset from? Yeah, I was just going to ask that. I mean, obviously, you made your league's debut when you were 16, so you're a pro. You just had 13. And then you obviously have a great career. and now you're doing all this charity work. So you're clearly a great person. But where do you get that from? I want to say rugby. I'm pretty biased because I've worked in both courts, but I grew up playing rugby league in very much of a working-class town. So I just think some of the values I grew up with have stood with me. and when I've been in a team I've always been in a team I love being in a team and that's the great thing about the challenges now I'm part of a team who are trying to do something good

41:33mindset I'm probably at my best when I'm in a tough spot and I was with my career so to be able to use that now of putting myself in a tough spot and being in a bit of a hole at times but fighting a way out has been something I haven't minded doing and I think when you're driven by a mate who's got him in there and now by so many other people who are diagnosed or have been diagnosed and have seen the effect we've been able to have to help families, then that's been a huge driver for us. The money is really important because that's the thing that's going to find a cure. But probably more deeper than that, the connections and letting people know we care about them has been right at the heart of this as well.

42:17Because it's interesting about mindset because I've never really had it. I mean, no, I haven't, you know what I mean? But I like playing and everything, but hated training and what have you. My wife, I don't, this is what I'm going to ask him. Because, you know what I mean, my wife's just bought me four sessions, PT sessions with her PT trainer at home, and I'm not looking forward to it, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? I don't really want to do it, you know what I mean? Never really wanted to do it. You'll just start with a few squats, Phil. Well, yeah, but I don't like doing it. Do you not find something you do like?

42:50Well, yeah, I can do it down the pub. Perhaps I could do it down the pub. No, but I've never... I mean, Cookie loves running. You always sort of... You quite like your training and your paddle and everything like that. I've never really... I like playing the game, but I never like doing the work, really. No, but you know what I mean? It makes you sweat a lot. Well, yes, and I've got sort of... I get rashes when I sweat. But you know what I mean? So where is that sort of mindset to sort of... You know, I walked 600 miles. Oh, crikey, all right. Where did you go? Where did that? Up and down the country for Macmillan Cancer Relief.

43:25Did you start in one place and finish? We had the Leicester Tigers girls rubbing her feet. Yeah, yeah, rubbing her feet. I never thought it was cracking. Did you do circles? Did you start in one place and finish at night? No, no, no. We did roughly 24 hours a day. What, you walked for 24 hours a day? No, not 24 hours. No, hold on. We did 24 miles a day. All right. 24 miles a day. But that's quite a long walk. I know, it is. Yeah.

43:47Michael Vaughan: I reckon that's what you should get into. Well, there you go, but I don't know how to get into it there. When I ever sort of start running, I go, oh, God, you know what I mean? Do you sort of go, yes, I love it? He did. No, no, I don't, no. I try and train every day, but I don't run every day. No. The pain of what comes in my own head if I don't do it is worse than the pain of doing it. Oh. I'm a better guy if I've trained. Yeah, right. Or I've run or I've got a session in a day. Is that physical pain? No, I mean, if I don't do it, just what's going on. Is it addictive? Yeah. Yeah. See, I should be good at that then.

44:33The thing is, well, if we look around the table, you guys were all gifted. And I probably didn't have some of the qualities that really stood out to be a rugby player. so I tried to make myself as committed and as disciplined as I could be to get the best out of what I had. Whereas I've played with guys who've been so talented and so gifted that got away without doing some of the other bits. And they still thought they worked hard, because everybody thinks they work hard, but probably had to do it in a different way, which is fine.

45:05Phil Tufnell: So one of our guests has been Brian Lyra, an absolute genius. I don't think Brian worked hard physically. He'd net him back and ball, but you never got injured. No. There you go. I burst my appendix. Yeah, but that's...

45:21Michael Vaughan: I reckon Brian was a runner. He used to run around the... I've seen him doing quite a lot of running. He didn't run a marathon. He ran a lot when he got 400 against us. Well, there you go. I don't think you did, did he? No, he just stood up and smashed us for four and six.

45:35Phil Tufnell: I mean, at their game, it's obvious that, listening to Kevin, you've got to be supremely fit to survive. You can't have any slackers, can you? You've no slackers in your teams. And this might sound crazy. I don't even like running. I don't like running. But I know it's good for me. And it has been good for me. And then since 2020, it's just been a great vehicle of raising money and shining a light on M &E. What a thing to say for a minute. I don't like running. I don't think many people do like running. It hurts. It does hurt, doesn't it? It hurts. I like the thought of it. I'll give you an example.

46:16You asked about the training before. What I've tried to do when we're out on the road for a week, I try and do three days of it on my own in the worst possible conditions. No music. My nutrition isn't great. Sleep deprived. And I put myself in a tough spot. So I try and do three days of it. And we're getting ready for one of the ultras. We're running from Edinburgh to Manchester. And we're averaging 40, 41 miles a day. so right I'm gonna do three days of it and I ran a 66km one day I got up the following morning at 4 o 'clock drove to Leicester coached because I was coaching at Leicester Target at the time got back at quarter to four set off again at 4 o 'clock in the afternoon ran 62km sat outside my local pub no word of a lie with a kebab right just to get the calories in I got up the following morning and I ran 61 right nobody sees any of that no but without doing that I can't expect to get to the start line in December and be ready to complete and because we all have self-doubt and we all worry about failing the big thing about this is you're live on BBC Breakfast every morning right if you're failing the whole if you fail the whole world know went into the last one injured and there's a lot riding on it and you don't want to let people down because you think of the people you're representing out there you know for them tomorrow is always gonna be worse than today whereas for me I can get myself right yeah why has he

47:43Phil Tufnell: not been knighted well well he's got one I did that with me walk I'll have a word oh there you go yeah I think I think that with me walk though we were starting off and Brighton you get knighted now no no I think I've burned a few too many bridges for that any letters I'm I'm I've got a doctorate from Middlesex University nice yeah I don't know I went there still got it yeah no no no they gave me this hat and gown I never feel and I'm they didn't get tell you what you got your I think it's for services to the county. Yeah, 20 years or something. But you're right about that. When I did my walk, I thought, you're talking about training.

48:43You know what I mean? I thought, well, I've been walking all my life. I don't need to train. You know what I mean? And I kind of got, yeah, I've been walking around all my life. And it was 28 days we did it for, and I started it at Brighton. Daley Thompson was there, you know what I mean, all waving us off. Were you on your own? No, no, Dorney was there.

49:01Michael Vaughan: Daly Thompson, I always think about that, you know, the Spectrum 48k. And he's there. A bit before your time, that, Chef, innit? We've all done that, though. Yeah, so we walked off big fanfare, and it's roughly about seven hours a day we did, you know what I mean? And I can remember walking a lot, and after about two hours, I've sort of gone to my missus, and I've gone, how long have we done, you know what I mean, like that, are we nearly there? She said, you've got another five hours to go. And I said, I don't really have got this in me. like that and then Dorney Dorney stayed with me all the way kicking me up the arse

49:37Phil Tufnell: good honour yeah good honour she said she said exactly that she said you've committed to this now it's for McMurran Council so you're a good woman yeah and kicked me you needed that motivation did you have your tabs with you yeah well we stopped for a tab and that was where the rocket fuel came in what's that that rocket fuel it's tequila and Fanta orange juice that's what Ian Botham absolutely well I phoned up beefy and I said I'm doing this I'm doing this walk because he's done, raised millions, and he said, well, I said, you've got any advice, he said, rocket fuel, and I said, what's that? He said, because he said your feet are going to be hurting, you're going to be sore, knees and everything like that.

50:13He said, about 11 o 'clock, in the old squeezy bottle like that, tequila and orange juice. I was like that, I was like that. Oh, the pain's gone, the pain's gone, you couldn't feel your blisters.

50:27Phil Tufnell: We didn't bump into anything, bumping into buses.

50:30Michael Vaughan: I reckon he had that rocket fuel in 86, 87 in the Ashes didn't he? If I tell you something and I've worked, I tell you something, they ended like that, come on. But then just went bang and then you've got to get up and do it again. And thankfully the Leicester Tigers girl, forget her name, lovely girl she was, worked for the Leicester Tigers as a physio. She used to put us back together every time. But mentally, I said if Dorney hadn't have been there, not a chance. I joined Jeff Stellan Prostate Cancer Walk I was still playing it would be 2013 2014 and he had a load of different sporting celebs Chris Kamara was one of them and I think on that particular day they'd walk 28 miles from somewhere in Yorkshire down into Leeds and we're finishing at LM Road and they'd asked me to join the last mile so I felt really embarrassed about joining doing the last mile as you do when you rock up to some of these things and I turned up and it was lashing it down and everybody looked absolutely exhausted and shot and Chris Kamara had the biggest smile on his face and looked like he'd not walked any of it he looked so fresh and he was bouncing around and just like in terms of an energy giver he was the best I've seen he just looked brilliant for Geoff I'll tell you something as well I'll tell you just another thing we had a load of people joining us Martin Johnson had just played in a semi-final against Toulouse or something like that and he said he was going to come and you know go with us he said you know he used to get terrible problems and blisters or something I'm not quite sure but feet and ankles and everything like that and he turned up he said listen you know I mean he's just got off helicopter been smashed up by Toulouse and or something and um he's turned up and uh he's gone um he's gone right he said I can only do um you know sort of a couple of miles and then I've got to go and do some meetings or something like that.

52:23He was in the front. He was up front at the end of it. You know what I mean? He'd walk the whole lot. You know what I mean? I said, Martin, you know what I mean? Thanks for having me come. He said, nah, fuck off. If I'm starting something, I'm going to... No, I'll tell you, I loved it. You know what I mean? Loved it. Got the old chin going. I was fucking right. It was lovely pissing with Ryan.

52:45Michael Vaughan: Oh, sorry. Yeah, it was good fun. Kev, so December the Challenger. anyone that's watching listening how can they sponsor just type it into Google yep and the give us your live page will come up so we've been I've been bowled over the whole team by the support we've had over the years I'm going to need two more because I've done seven who is your team who else is doing it how it started so remember we were in COVID so it was ruler six So at the time I'd text five mates and they're not lads I played with, they're just mates from home, from Oldham because at that stage you couldn't go out of town unless you were working and so there were mates who had just friends and said do you fancy supporting me and with this they didn't quite know what was going on, they just said yeah.

53:40Are they still mates? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that was the original six. And then since then, we've had to add everybody who's part of that team I've worked with in some way, all their friends in some way. So our team, Doc, I've worked with England Rugby League. Now physio is the best physio I've ever worked with at the Rhinos. So we've just got, yeah, we've got a great team now. It ranges between 16 and 18, depending on somebody's got a wife who's pregnant and they can't do the whole stint, but the numbers change. It's a great team.

54:22Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Kev, we've finished with some community questions. Oh, yeah. Oh, well. So we get a few questions sent in. We've had a couple of good ones for you, actually. can you name us the top five rugby league players of all time well I'm going to start with Billy Boston oh it's been nice Billy Boston and right so Ellery's got to be in there yep

54:57modern I'm going to say Andy Farrell so we've got a modern day player in there that's three and then I'm going to pick a couple of guys from overseas um wally lewis twigamala an australian twig twigamala he was a great he was a great you'd call him but we're talking league here aren't we yeah yeah i think it's only right we have a new zealander in there as well um i'm gonna say stacy jones oh yeah yeah so decent

55:32Michael Vaughan: Right, two more. What is the key ingredient for sustained success? Oh. In one word, discipline. I don't know if anybody saw the Usyk interview after his last win. And he was asked what keeps him motivated. and he said he dismissed it and he said it's not to do with motivation it's to do with discipline yeah and it's yeah great shout there's discipline in your life right this is the last one to finish what's better rugby league or rugby union oh hello to play rugby league to coach rugby union why because that's pretty much how my career's mapped out yeah brilliant Thank you. Well done, mate. Really good.

56:29Well done, Governor.

56:37Bloody hell. Sustained success, discipline. Bollocks. LAUGHTER

57:01Quick question. When was the last time a display ad changed your mind? Now think about the last time a friend told you about something they loved. Different feeling, right? That's how podcast advertising works. A host who's built real trust with their audience talks about your brand in their own words, in their own voice. It doesn't interrupt the experience. It's part of it. With Acast, you can access the world's largest podcast marketplace, Choose the right shows, the right audiences, the right format. Then watch the data tell you it worked. You're not buying impressions. You're buying influence.

57:34Learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise.

57:42Michael Vaughan: Thanks for listening and thanks to our partners, Betfair. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode. And if you want to support the show, please leave us a five-star review and help others find it too. See you next time.