Mark Wood: Ashes Build-Up, Fast Bowling & World Cup Success | Stick to Cricket Ep 10

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1:01Michael Vaughan: I like the shit, yeah? Morning, Kieran, do you like it? Yeah. I like yours as well, look at that, Maradona. That's in the game that he scored down. That's the famous game, isn't it? Mexico 86. There you go. There you go. Come on. Hey, Conniff. Mike, Mike, come on. Come on, Woody, lad, there's your chair. We've got a tough cushion. We don't want to do the thing. You're right. Yeah, top on, thank you. Hey, I tell you what, do you watch Stick to Football? Yeah. Have you seen they have a... Where's our table tennis? Table tennis? They have a table tennis. I'm no good at table tennis. We'll move your table out.

1:37Michael Vaughan: Well, you could easily have it here. Jesus. We could have a little knot before... Why am I always so near the table? We'll make something happen for the next one if you want. You all right? Nobody needs to add a room with onions. Hello.

1:49Phil Tufnell: Thanks, mate. They are lovely.

1:52Michael Vaughan: What's this? Onions. Onions.

1:54Phil Tufnell: Everybody needs an onion.

1:56Michael Vaughan: We nipped to the fruit and vegetables this morning.

1:58Phil Tufnell: No, I'm grown. Oh, are these yours? These are yours. Homegrown. It's soft, Dave. They're lovely, them. They're proper. Yeah, yeah, the onion. I ain't got one for you, Woody. I'm sorry, mate. Woody, do you want mine? Thanks for that. There you go. Hey, they're nice. Got a bit of air spray for them, dude. I don't know, yeah. Shine them up. Yeah. Get a bit of shine on them. I've got a bit of Shrek vibes, yeah. Didn't realise it was showing. All goes out like an onion. It's all little ears. Aren't they meant to be all the same size and shape if you're going to start showing them? It's organic, isn't it?

2:26Organic. I thought they've all got to be regimented, didn't they, if you want to get to the Boodle Country Fair or whatever.

2:34Phil Tufnell: The Forticultural Society Onion Championship. Do we all have to bring something in? That's a good idea. You must grow things at your farm, don't you? Sheep. You can't bring fucking sheep in, can't you? Do you have to throw any veg? No, no different to what Bumblebee does. I'll bring some chillies in. Red hot chillies. Red hot chilli peppers. Good for margaritas. I've got some about that big, red.

3:03Michael Vaughan: You'd grow anything, Woody.

3:05Phil Tufnell: No. Tomatoes? Do you not do tomatoes?

3:07Michael Vaughan: No, we've got no... It's too wet out there, isn't it? Have you got a greenhouse?

3:11Phil Tufnell: Of course I've got a greenhouse. I don't know a lot of them. One of my neighbours, Bob, he used to... He did his tomatoes. He kept them just outside in the sun. Pretty good at the local club. Eight pints for Stella. then come back and piss all over his tomatoes. Oh, remind me not to have his tomatoes. Don't bring bombs in next week. I thought that onion was a bit odd. He'd say, Dave, he said, I'll get tomatoes. Do you want some? No, I'm all right for tomatoes, Bob. I'm absolutely fine for tomatoes because I know he's pissed all over them. And they soak it all up? Yeah. And then you said organic.

3:54Phil Tufnell: He said it's flavoursome. No. I said, I'm all right for a tomato. Got me home. I have interest. How old's Bob? He's dead now, Bob.

4:09Phil Tufnell: Too much Stella.

4:10Michael Vaughan: I was going to say, having eight pints of Stella. Eight pints of Stella. It's not quite a lot, Mike. Eight. We do three for, don't we? Well, yeah, sometimes a fourth.

4:19Phil Tufnell: Eight pints of Stella when you put your Emma Hallett, Paul Hallett. Yeah. When he was at Durham Uni, in the refectory, what do they call it, students' union, whatever, eight pints of Stella for a pound.

4:31Michael Vaughan: What, that was the pound each? No, it was a pound each.

4:34Phil Tufnell: He said eight for a pound. What year are we talking? Well, when he was at university. I knew I should have gone to university.

4:42Michael Vaughan: What are you studying? Stella. He was going to Duncow in Durham. Have you seen this clip? I've got to show you this clip of Woody.

4:52Phil Tufnell: You're a non-drinker, aren't you?

4:53Michael Vaughan: No, but it seems like the anaesthetic affects me a little bit. Yeah, have you seen this?

4:57Phil Tufnell: No.

4:59Michael Vaughan: Which was this one? This would be Operation Wood 6 or 7. I'm at 9 at the minute. So I'm on your knees. So I've had 4 on my right knee. Yeah. I've had 3 on my left, so I'm 4-3. I'm 2-2. Are you 2-2? Desmond. Desmond 2-2. What are you at? I'm a two-on-one knee, three-on-one ankle, a couple on my elbow, hernia side. So I'm going to run. Yeah. I'm going to get the perfect operation. You tick your box. I only had my appendix out. Is that it? The appendix, that's it. Tonsils? No, they're still in there. It's kind of a jawline like that and have bad tonsils, man. You've got the perfect jawline, you've got everything there.

5:38Only one, so I loved it. Have you had your tonsils out, Dave?

5:42Phil Tufnell: No. No. I've got a metal knee. I have a metal knee. I've got a titanium knee. Right. Lobotomy. I think I'm going to need one of them. Come on, let's watch the video. Here we go. We had that. I've had elbow surgery, but my shoulders ache it. Yeah, the position you were lying in. What am I? I still go fast. I still go fast. Looking forward to your ideal comeback. Yeah, I'm so sad. Not this time? No. 2023? I like Andy Flour.

6:24Tea Hall. Tea Hall. Born and gone. Yes. Lollipop.

6:38Michael Vaughan: Is that why you don't drink? I think so. The lollipop bit was because my mouth was dry, my brain was obviously, I didn't... Because when you're under, you think this stuff after. You remember that? You see it and then after you think it. You remember that? No, but when he showed us it, I know why I said that, because my mouth was dry, so I was going... Lollipop! They don't give you the pre-meds anymore, do you? That was my best bit. They give me something before one of them where I was the most relaxed... I felt amazing. The most relaxed man in the world. I was sort of seeing dragons. It's all fast on them.

7:15Yeah, it's tremendous.

7:17Michael Vaughan: I'm having some of that... Is it PRP? Yeah, it's not nice, that one. Spin the blood. Yeah, I'm having it next Tuesday. Have you had it before? Have you had it before? No. I can tell you most things. I reckon I've had more than the Ops. I've had about 60 injections altogether. 60? That's a lot. What's that one you're having? What is it? PRP. PRP. Take your blood out. they spin it in a special machine. Centrifuge. And then they put it back in, but there's no logal. So it's just straight in. Basically, it's like they get a reaction and then your body naturally fights it with any inflammatory. Why are you having these?

7:58Want to help heal them?

8:00Michael Vaughan: No, I've got no cartilage in the... So what's it going to do? Bone on bone. They say it creates a cushion. No, a cushion. Hopefully it re-stimulates and something will grow inside that'll help. It's all the good stuff. You centrifuge it and it splits. How do you know this, Tuffers? Well, just listen and let's see if he makes sense. No, you centrifuge it and the plasma separates from the blood and the plasma stuff is all the healthy stuff that makes you grow things. Yep. Very good, Phil. And you have it... I am a doctor of Middlesex University. And you have it for here. I do have a doctorate. What do you have it for, Tuffers?

8:40Huh? What do you...? Barnet. Your barn's looking strong. Yeah, there you go. still there hey Woody you were at St James

8:46Michael Vaughan: you were at St James weren't you yeah last night Liverpool yeah that's Liverpool yeah great game great game I was the atmosphere so I took my wife she never normally goes so I said oh look we're getting a couple of tickets to go and she was a bit like at the start of the game she was really upright because the atmosphere and it was loud and she was saying oh it's not like they're cricket this is it I says if you've been to India because you've never been I says it's a bit like that when they smack a few or certainly when I'm bowling and they'd gotten a bit wild. It's a bit like that, but she was a bit wide-eyed at the start.

9:19Couldn't believe it. And by the end, she's abusing the linesman. Yeah, yeah. Sunderland are doing all right. Yeah, they're doing well as well. Good for the North East. Yeah, good. Derby's going to be good. Yeah. What is your team? Wimbledon's. Wimbledon, yeah. The Wombles. Where did that come from? So, as a kid, favourite, I had the Premier League sticker books, 94-95 season and I had all the shinies for Wimbledon my favourite colour was blue so it could have been like Everton I think the last start around Chelsea but one of the stickers in the Wimbledon team looked like my dad so I picked them who was that?

9:54I think it was so we thought it was the keeper Hans Sager because he had a big moustache like me so I thought it was him so someone like that but all my family are Newcastle fans my best friends that would have been the crazy gang then you would have yes

10:06Michael Vaughan: I reckon Simon Dules it's cricket too She's married to Hans Seger's daughter. Here we go. That's it, isn't it? Simon Duhl. Simon Duhl. Is that right? Yeah. Wimbledon 1988 FA Cup. B. She called B. Finney Jones. Laurie Sanchez. Dave Besant. Dave Besant. What did he do? Dennis Wise. Save the penalty. Oh, Dennis Wise. Yeah. Terry Phelan on the left, wasn't he? Left back. Who? I think he was. Big Johnny Fash. Fash the bash. Flash the bash. You have to like that.

10:45Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. So just hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

10:57When I grew up, I used to pretend to stand for the national anthem in my garden and I'd write the test match doing what you were probably in the game that I would play in the back garden. And I'd do all the actions of the England lads. My dad would be Australia. So, yeah, that was the be-all and end-all.

11:10Michael Vaughan: How many games did you captain before you captain England? One. Professionally, I'm captain on the 90s. I've never captain England. So why did they pick you, then? I didn't know the idea. That Aussie batting line-up doesn't strike me as the batting line-ups I used to come up against. The top three is so uncertain. It's the first time for a long period of time. Peter Anderson was the coach of my club team. He was also a coach of Papua New Guinea at the same time. So, as I was the overseas English lad at this club, He was like, oh, come and help me out with Papua New Guinea. So they played in the local competition and they won the first game and then I find myself, I'm running these Papua New Guinea guys going, Papua New Guinea.

11:48This A &G song, I was like part of the ritual. I was like, this is quality.

11:56So how is the body, Woody? It's all right. I've been protected a little bit, I would say. When I was coming back, I pushed it too hard for that fifth test. It was 50-50 whether I was going to make it. the India test but I was bowling at Lord's off my full run and then the next day my knee swelled up again so I had it drained and everything and then from then it's been sort of like just take it easy looking ahead in the winter so I'm hoping to play for Durham there's a couple of games, championship games I think

12:22Phil Tufnell: September? Yeah end of September so I'm going to try and play one or two of them games and then there's a bowling camp in Loughborough in a tent getting acclimatised in there ready for Perth and then I'm going to go over to Perth early with a couple of the bowlers. Camping? How's that acclimatising for Perth? They pump these big industrial fans into the tent. So what you'll do is you'll go and bowl and bat in the tent, then you'll go straight into the sauna and then you'll have to do a bike session so you're already sweating, so it gets you used to... Jackie Russ. Jackie Russ used to do that before.

12:56Michael Vaughan: He was an innovator, Jackie Russ. And then they put a beach down, you know, cut the flow man, put some shards.

13:05we've been taught quite a lot on this show about people need to play cricket you don't really need to play do you you don't need rhythm do you when I did that conference where I was saying Geoff Archer I need to play but that wasn't always the case for me I feel like if I play this is going to sound so bizarre but if I do too much actually my injury side of things it makes me peak a little bit so I think my record's been better the last few years certainly since I lengthened my run up, but I feel like sometimes when I'm fresher, actually I've got more. You don't need rhythm, do you? You're not like a rhythm.

13:39Not really. This is where I mean Wooks, who've played together a long time, was sort of very different, whereas he would want to play four, five, six championship games where I'd be the exact opposite. How often do you say about Wooksie? We say, God, he just needs the games. I was under the legs. Yeah, but then you would. If I feel good in coming back in maybe one game or in the net session. I remember even before that game at Headley, the Ashes Test. That was the quickest I'd ever seen. I'd done no games. I'd come off the back of IBL, then I'd had a bit of time off. I'd bowled well in the nets and Baz had sort of come up with us and said, oh, are you ready to bow some rockets?

14:15And I was just like, yeah, I'm ready. That was the quickest I'd ever seen live.

14:18Michael Vaughan: I reckon of all, I mean, I reckon Joff would be a nightmare facing him in the nets, but I think he'd be up there as well, would he? If you charge him... I'd be nicer than him in the nets. Joff, if anyone hits a good shot of Joff, that's it. and it's like, right, give us the new ball. I have to jump. I kind of haven't got that. He's loving that bowler. Right, so you go nice and... He's got full, but I'd probably bowl. I never bowl 100 % in the nets, ever. I'd bowl probably 80%, and then if I'm preparing for a game, it'd be right on the side of the pitch, I'm going to bowl three overs flat out, and then I know that I'm ready.

14:51So I get my body in a position that I'm ready to go, but I'm not peppering my teammates, and it makes life difficult for them.

14:57Phil Tufnell: When did you lengthen your run-up? Ended 2018, just before the 2019. Michael Holden told his side. But he told me ages ago, so he'd have been in the comms box. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember when I met my debut and stuff, because you get to that point, you don't want to change because you're like, well, that's got me to here. But when I look back now, I was bang average. It made me force things and rhythm and everything. I wish I'd listened earlier. I actually pulled him aside one day. I remember I was at Game at Lords and said, look, I hear this is what you said. And it wasn't like, you know, sometimes people get the lip on the commentators, but it wasn't that at all.

15:35It was like, look, what have you seen? I respect your opinion. You're great. Like, what have you seen in me that I can get better? And he just said, look, yeah, it's your run up for me. Like, that's where everything starts. And it took me another year past that to think, right, I'm going to make the change. There's a lot of injuries, a lot of sad moments while I was up and down. But because I'd get into that international cricket, I was worried that if I changed it, that I'd be out of the team. And because I was in and out so much, I didn't want to take the risk that I would never get back. But then it got to the point where Trevor Bayliss had wound me up a little bit.

16:09Probably, although I'm more of a positive, happy lad, it niggled us a little bit when he said that I didn't have enough mongrel in us. I was sharp, but I wasn't quick, quick. Ever since that day, I was like, right, I'm going to show you. and then had a bit of period out of the team. So we just one day filled on my run-up, but I stopped doing the stop-start run-up in training. I was just sort of like building it back and building it back. So I naturally had a sort of run-up. And then eventually it was like, right, I'm going to let a few fly. And I did a game in Sri Lanka, ODI, and I didn't get any wickets.

16:46And I thought, oh, God, this run-up's not the one. And then the next game I did with the run-up was St Lucia. I got five wickets there. and then so you was just because you did get any wickets first I was going to rack it out it's just not me I'm never going to make it out but then I stuck with it and I'm glad I did I just wish I'd done it's easy to say now but my career the difference between our ball with that run up to this one is like totally different yeah

17:13Michael Vaughan: and Woody when you say you're going to potentially play in September for Durham do you play any cricket leading into a four day first class game say a game for Ashington just to well I would But it's whether they would let us. Like I say, I've been well looked after, very cautious. That's the way that it's been. I take it as a nice thing that the value is in the way that they've got this end game where they want us to get to Australia. But I said to Baz when he was like, oh, well, we'll just see you on the plane for Perth. I was like, I can't have bolt to a net for four months. I'm going to get insane.

17:45I've brought more balls to nobody in the last year than I have to an actual batter. although I feel a million dollars when I'm ripping it past something I'm on at the day I think well if you'd crunch that through the cover I'd have been like I'm not quite on it so

17:58Michael Vaughan: who are you bowling do you know when you bowl to so we had Wazim on didn't we he said when he came to Lancashire you were at the nets and he rocked up to have a bowl and there was a guy batting it it was his chef who are you bowling to I've had nobody nobody just an empty net so just bowling that's the the hard thing is like when you're walking back and put the ball just like in your mind something and you're ticking off balls. So I've got 30 balls to bowl a day. You get 15 balls left and I'm like, I've got 15 balls left. What am I doing? I'm not thinking skill-wise, am I trying to do this? Don't work too hard, do you?

18:30No, but that's... Are you just trying to hit a cone or something? Well, I try to work on a few things like wobble seams or trying to swing at round stumps and other bits. Then eventually when it's go time in the next couple of weeks, I'll get batters into things and then start bowling at the end.

18:45Michael Vaughan: Could you, so Baz, he's obviously... Put the onion on it.

18:50Phil Tufnell: Yeah. He's going to bust it. You've smashed it already. Oh, you've broken it. Oh, I'll mend it.

18:55Michael Vaughan: Does that give you a huge amount of confidence, Woody, when the coach is basically saying, look, I'm actually not bothered about the next two or three months. I just need you in Perth. Yeah, I mean, that's fantastic to hear. And, you know, it's great that England have that confidence in me. And, you know, I really value that. but I do miss playing. I miss being around the environment and it's sort of, you feel a little bit like a no-man's land because you're not part of any teams but you're not playing. So it's sort of... In Australia? Yeah. Three out of five? Is that what they said? Well, last time I was there, I played four.

19:31So four out of five would be, if that's my benchmark, last time I managed to get four. I think three out of five would be probably more realistic. If it's going well though and you're taking wickets, you're feeling strong, You play a one, don't you? Yeah, well, in India, in the recent one, I knew before I went there what that plan was, so I knew I was going to bowl one, three and five if I was in form and going well. And I was going to be rested for the second game and the fourth game to give us that extra time to bowl quick. I think because they were only going to play one seam on the first game, two seam on the second game, they wanted to make sure that I was at my peak.

20:05I think England don't want me to bowl between 85 and 90 mil an hour. They want me 90 plus. I think that's the challenge of this side going to Australia. I honestly think they're going to have to hate it. It's against what I believe in, but they're going to have to say, right, Wood, Archer, whoever played at Perth, and then we need Atkinson here for Brisbane. And we just have to almost premeditate it.

20:26Michael Vaughan: Really? I think so. I think Woody, well, I think they're right. Woody bowling at... And Australia will play the same. But they're different bowlers, aren't they? They're proven, robust bowlers. They're freaks in one sense. They're a bit like Broad and Anderson. They just play. They plug and come in. He's had all his injury stuff, but coming in Stark, Hazelwood, they play, and Hazelwood's just probably towards the end of his career getting a few more niggles. I don't know if I should say this on camera, though, but... There's no cameras here. You have to look at it as well. The last few times I've been in Australia, they're bowling 60 overs, and we're bowling 120, 130 overs.

20:58Then they're coming back, and then we're coming back. Are you blaming the bats? No, but what I'm saying is that the way that England score, especially this team as well, that's a factor. If you get there, the lads, and the third, fourth, fifth spells, then you might see Niggles crop up but at the minute they're only bowling they're disembodied the ball's 60 over and then all of a sudden that batter's doing but I think like Atkinson but Cookie

21:19Michael Vaughan: so say Perth I think England have got a great chance on that pitch if everyone's fit saw India blow the Aussies away last year if England win that first test in Perth going to Brisbane on the back of I think it's 8 days in between I'd be pulling whatever pair I've got left that's the night match isn't it yeah I'd be like if it's gone well in Perth go again So that eight days is fine to recover, so that's probably all right. But I'm looking at Axe and looking at Archer, I'm looking at you, Woody. When they bowl their best, it's when they are closer to their top-end speeds. We saw Gus at the end of last summer, who I'm a big fan of.

21:55He was at 82, 83. He comes back for that one game against India where he's fresh. He's bowling 86, 87, and he's a totally different bowler. And because we've got tongue, they can pick six or seven, I think, bowlers. you get different combinations, all very similar, but like skill levels in terms of, I think, the stats and stuff. So I think they can be really clever and be brave to do it because what we've done in the past hasn't worked. But you're right, the eight days, it should be fine. I mean, you're talking about five. I think I'd go five seamers at Perth. I'd hit them with everything at Perth and just don't play a spieler.

22:29Full out attack. Yeah, because then Stokesy, fifth seamer is a bit of a chance. I'll wave me match for you, Newland. I'll waive me match free now then What to play? If we play five seamers we're definitely not getting through the overs But then it also helps Stokesy You don't with a spinner anyway I just think it helps Stokesy as well

22:50Michael Vaughan: because you know he'll be liking that first If you're going to arrive in Australia I don't know how many days before the squad that is sensible Take your cartel of bowlers if you can get them there early A week early so we go to the Lions a week early to prepare, get acclimatised. And then I think it's even like, I think it's a ball I team before support staff. So support staff will get there a few days in between and then the rest of the team join up. So clever the way they're doing it. In 2010-11, they went to Brisbane. The three main or four main quicks who were going to play in that first Test match went a week earlier to acclimatise.

23:24Apparently they just boozed anyway. Bas will know what we're doing anyway. I think he'll have a plan of what, and he'll make sensible decisions. I don't think this will be like we haven't planned and we're just going to like, a bit like the last one, it had rained, nobody had any prep, and then it was like, well, who's going to play, what's the wicket? I don't think it's quite going to be like that.

23:44Michael Vaughan: And for you, if you didn't play any cricket till Perth, because of the way that you'll be fine? I'm not, I'm confident that I would be still happy to go out there. Just don't play against Durham, don't play for Durham. No, but I want to play out. But it's more for the men's, it's more for the men's. I would still be confident if I felt good if my body feels good then I would be confident I could still deliver mine's more like how my body feels I've said this before on bowling but if like a chink of the chain feels out then you lose a little bit of accuracy or you lose a bit of pace or you lose something and then that for me is a big factor because then I'm not at my top end if I'm at my top end then I feel like I could do my role justice whereas if I'm not at my top end then there's other bowlers in England who are better at that job than me so as long as I'm going in there with my body thinking I'm ready for this next game and then I've got no...

24:33And only you know that. Yeah. I mean, sometimes there's a little bit of a frustration with the ECB backroom staff when it's done off a bit of a computer, and I hate that. Red zone. Yeah, red zone. So it's like, oh, you've bowled X amount of overs, or you've done this, and I really don't like that. I'd rather just have a conversation like this and say, look, I'm good, I'm not good, I'm a bit like this, I'm a bit like that, I think this would work. Whereas when it's done on a computer, that's just not how I would operate.

25:01Phil Tufnell: Have you come across a lad called Jacob Bethel? Yeah. Yeah. He's a cricketer. He don't play, though. He's a little bit different than me. He's not fastball, has he? No, he's battered. So when people are rested and stuff. I just wondered whether you'd come across it with him. He's captain. He's captain.

25:20Michael Vaughan: He's 20 captain. What do you make of that from a player that's not played a lot of cricket? He's young, he's 21. He's an exceptional talent. I have no question. He's going to be in and around the England team for the next 15, 17 years. Do you think it's a little bit too much pressure on a young player that's not played a great... I think he's a great idea because he's fresh. I would like... Just let him play. Why throw the captaincy on him? Just let him play cricket. Something like Phil Salt for three games against Ireland, a senior pro, just give him the captaincy for those games. I don't see what you're going to gain.

25:50Michael Vaughan: What's the win? I don't see... Three games of captaincy against Ireland... He said he wanted to do differently, didn't he? He did an interview about it. I was actually listening to it and he was saying, are why we don't get any captaincy experience into these young players. Well, I understand that. It's a matter. I know, but that's what his argument was. How many games did you captain before you captain England? One. Really? I'd captain England in the 90s. I'd never captain for Essex. Sorry, professional. I'd captain England in the 90s. I'd never captain again for Essex. So why did they pick you then?

26:20I did. I lost them down south. Yeah, exactly.

26:26Phil Tufnell: I think it's great fun. I think it's great. Are you going captain against Ireland? I mean, are you going, you lads? Are you going to Ireland? No, no. What a trip.

26:34Michael Vaughan: It's a good trip.

26:35Phil Tufnell: Where are they playing? Malahide, I think. Oh, no. I played there. Oh, my God. Malahide. What's the bar on the hill? Gibneys. Just on the hill there. I played there. Middlesex got beat by Ireland in the, what did it be, Gillette Cup or something? Back in the day. Right. Yeah, when we played. Oh, yeah. We played Ireland. Anthony Cronye. Nat West. Nat West, 60 over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I kept getting hit in a garden and he was the bloke from the abattoir. He used to work in the abattoir, left-handed opening back. And he just kept smashing me in the garden. Do you remember when West Indies, the great West Indies team went to play Ireland at Siam Mills?

27:14Phil Tufnell: Yeah, last time. All out 26. Yeah, Guinness. Got Guinness. The lad called O 'Riordan got nine foot and they still celebrate that, really. Fabulous.

27:23Michael Vaughan: I played against Scotland for Yorkshire in the 90s. up in Edinburgh. Who opened the bowling for Scotland? Ali McQuist. It wasn't Ali McQuist. It's got to be a West Indian. It's an overseas West Indian.

27:41Phil Tufnell: Malcolm Marshall.

27:42Michael Vaughan: Malcolm Marshall. Malcolm Marshall. Get in there, cat. Malcolm Marshall. Played for Scotland. Woody, the perception of Baz McCollum, because we're not in the dressing room, is that he's this cool character. We see him on the balcony with his feet up, shades on, he just sits there like this. Oh, he's got the feet up. He's as cool as you like. Inside that room, I mean, you mentioned plans for Perth, you know, Baz goes through everything. How much planning does Baz McCullum do for the England side and to individuals like yourself? I think you just do a bit of planning, but I wouldn't say it's like an over-analytical, like, meetings and, right, let's get people up on screen, which I've done a lot before.

28:20It's not really like that. it's just more sort of plans before the game, but reacting well in the game and what's happening and little things. Best bit I've had a lot was, like I said, that India test series, because I was the only team I was coming up with more things like changing the rhythm of the game. So it'd be like, right, we've had a period of spin, you come on, I want you to try and blast something open, let's try bounces or, right, this one, I want you to just, everything you've got for three overs. And it might not even be something where it's like over-the-top tactical, it's just something that's so simple.

28:52I mean, with my baton, for example, for someone that, I'm not a great baton, but he just wants me to change the momentum of the game and get the crowd up so that then we've got momentum to bowl. And just seeing things like that, he is cool. I mean, he couldn't pull off that shirt, but he is a cool player.

29:07Michael Vaughan: Just on this shirt, the reason I'm wearing this shirt is it's not that it's my fashion sense. Must be Sheffield Wednesday. It is. So black and gold until we're sold. So there's a big dispute with the fans of the owner. Diefen Chans theory, he's been owner of the club for a few years. this guy's ruining the club so we're all wearing black and gold and this is the only black and gold piece of kit that i had in my wardrobe like it for is it the missus's it was in probably but it's black and gold until we're sold hi i'm nick co-host of the best one yet you optimize your workouts your portfolios and that rando startup idea that hit you in the middle of the shower but if you're not hydrated you're already playing catch-up.

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30:17Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by BatFast. Talking about your batting, we were on, weren't we? At Edinburgh. Annie Hawks! Was it Cummins? Yeah. Yeah. Went miles. Went miles. You can bat. I was stood front on like this. It was pitching up, I was gone. I was like, no matter where this is, I'm gone for it. Mitchell Johnson, Cardiff, I remember that shot. Yeah. Front of Square, wasn't it? Yeah. When you're at heart rate to 230, but he just seemed to just hide the bat anywhere.

30:47Phil Tufnell: What are they like to play against these days? Are they a bit lippy, a bit chippy? When they're together, in general, Australia, I always have a little bit of quick, but it's not too bad. They're pretty much good guys, I think, because you get to know them through the franchise world. That's gone less and less now. The Bolas are the four quicks that... I don't know them really well, but when you've chatted them off the field, they seem like nice guys and that. Something will kick off, won't it? Yeah, always.

31:14Michael Vaughan: Do you say anything along? Because at the end of the last Ashes series, I mean, obviously there was a Johnny incident at Lowe's, it all got a bit chaotic throughout the series. Is it right that you didn't have a drink with the Aussies after the series? That's a little bit skewed. Like, we didn't have a drink, but we had had all the families in the room. I think the Aussies were waiting to come in and then by the time we'd done our wrap-up, they'd had enough and gone. It wasn't that we hadn't invited them in, It was just that the time had gone past kind of thing. I think sometimes these things get blown up more than what they were.

31:48It wasn't a massive deal. I wish we had had a drink with them, but it wasn't like that. They were a bit miffed, but it wasn't like we deliberately shunned them of the room. It wasn't like that.

32:00Michael Vaughan: And leading in, the Aussies have just played South Africa in a one-day series. Do you keep half an eye on what's happening? Honestly, no. I would think mentally of... So, I do all this fitness and rehab stuff, sometimes when I'm pounding the treadmill, I visualise myself running in at the angle of my run-up or who I'm bowling to and what the scenario might be. So that's how I try to mentally get my head in the game and be thinking of, like, I'm bowling to Cameron Green here and I can visualise myself running in at Perth. And I try and almost trick my brain to think which I'm going to be running when it's freezing cold in the north-east in the winter in my garage I'm running I don't see the Aussies doing this I'm going to have that 1 % over them or 1 % over him that's how I try and mentally sort of get over it but like I think there's so much cricket and players go up and down in form that you can't read into it too much because in their home conditions Australia are a raker aren't they they're really good what do you call them a raker a raker a belt a raker a raker

33:01Phil Tufnell: David Warner has kicked off hasn't he straight away about Joe Root He's having a surfboard on his... They're going to blow his surfboard off, they've said. Yeah, he's got to get his surfboard out of the way. That phrase will be there now, isn't it? He's done his job. He's like planted a...

33:15Michael Vaughan: Well... He gets LBW, they'll be calling him. We'll see. When Hazelwood got Joe out three times, LBW, and he's played against him a huge amount. I think Joe will be all right. Yeah, he'll be fine. 2015, wasn't there a story of you guys having drinks at the end of the series? End of the series? They came in the room. No, I'll tell you what, 2015, we tried to have drinks after the first game. Right. So we were like, I think, did you guys do that in 2005? 2005 we did, yeah. So I think Trevor, like, because they had won 2013 5-0, he was like, should we just throw? So we literally, two days before, were saying, win, lose, or draw, do you fancy coming into our dressing room at the end of Cardiff?

33:51Just to throw something out there. And we then got a message back a day before, day one, said we're not coming in. What email was it, or text? Or Trevor. I think Trevor did. Kangaroo. Kangaroo. Little kangaroo came in and got it out of his pet.

34:12Yeah, so apart from just to see what they did, out of interest.

34:16Michael Vaughan: The reason we did it in 05 is because the Aussie side were put on a pedestal of greatness. I think we tried similar to that. I just thought, they're only human beings. The more you can get to know the human being, you realise when you're up against them out in the middle that they are just a human being. I think that's Trevor's thing. That was the best thing for us though. Johnson didn't get any wickets at first game in 2015, did he? I mean, I wasn't involved in the thing, but all the talk before was how fast he'd bowled away and all that. But he didn't get any wickets at first. We played really well.

34:42Cardiff, we went to Desert Springs, didn't we? Didn't take a bat or ball, we were just catching. Because we couldn't catch. Where's Desert Springs? In Spain. I mean, a really good three days. Is that why a youngie, the psychologist, got the cactus stuck in the back of his leg? He had to be cartwheeled off. Is that right? Is that a psychologist? Psychologist, eh? That's the first time I met Trevor. Obviously, you didn't see that one. Yeah, no, no.

35:10Imagine you're not hurt. Put the cactus and put it in a box. Put it up there.

35:18Phil Tufnell: Oh, dear. So Trevor and Bowie Paul Barbrecht, wouldn't he? Yeah. Farby. Yeah, Farby had done the New Zealand series. And then Trevor came in. We had three days with Trevor. That was no bat, no ball, and then went straight to Cardiff and played really well. I think that Aussie batting line-up doesn't strike me as the batting line-ups I used to come up against. The top three. The top three. I think everyone's commented on it, but the top three is so uncertain for the first time for a long period of time. Travis. I'll be intrigued. I think four, five, six. You know, Smith at five. Smith at four, Head at five.

35:53And if they go Cameron Green at six. I reckon Cameron will be at three. I think Bo Webster.

35:58Phil Tufnell: They'll be at three, won't they? he's been is he bowling if I was the Australians

36:02Michael Vaughan: Mitchell Marsh is a player that I think is a quality act they just mentioned him opening I'd put him in opening him absolutely he's just got a couple of he whacked him Henley when the rest of them struggle he's the only one who played you I think he plays if England hold me for six in the Western Territory he played he's Western Australian but I thought I'm technet on here I'm going to bomb him so I'd give him smack front of square as well that is why I'd play Mitchell Marsh if I was off-show because if you've got yourself, Joffre, Atkinson, pitch-up swing, all quick bowlers, you'd be like, he plays quick bowling well.

36:38He does play quick bowling. And when you start thinking

36:39Michael Vaughan: of opening the bat and you're going, who have they got? Like Constance, young kid. The thing about Curtis Patterson being there, Renshaw, Marcus Harris, you're going back. Kawadja's 38, isn't he? Exactly, and he'll play, Kawadja will play. I don't think you guys are mind-blowing at Kawadja. He's not going to hurt you, is he? No, exactly. he might get loads of runs looking forward to it yeah I really am I hope obviously from a body point of view I get there why didn't you say no I'm not looking forward to it no no but I really am I think sometimes when you say this I did particularly I think it's like a false but I think genuinely I am genuinely excited I think they've got a great team they're hard to beat in their own conditions but like from previous tours where I've went there and you think oh this could be there's a bit of like I agree

37:22Phil Tufnell: where's your favourite place then out there the one we didn't play at Hobart Hobart's nice lovely place oh you've got six of there hasn't you six yeah but I like I played cricket quite a bit on the goal course so Brisbane oh yeah it's a nice place for me to go because I feel a bit more like a place from home would you play at Maroochydor or Noosa or somewhere around there I played at Palm Beach Corumban Palm Beach sounds awful doesn't it what an awful place to play at Palm Beach from Ashton to Palm Beach yeah it was fantastic so I tell you who was the coach there was Peter Anderson who was going to play for Australia a way to keep that and he broke his thumb and then Healy played literally about to play I think he played with both of them and the Queensland team and then he broke his thumb and then Healy got in that would be Alan Borda yeah so Peter Anderson was the coach of my club team who was also a coach of Papua New Guinea at the same time so as I was like the overseas English lad at this club he was like oh come and help me out with Papua New Guinea so they played in the local competition and I was they won the first game and then I found myself I'm running these Papua New Guinea, and I was going, Papua New Guinea.

38:29This A &G song, I was like part of the ritual. I was like, this is quality. So for a lad from like Ashton at 18, I'd gone from like being in the working men's club to Papua New Guinea. I've been in that working. Hey, Woody, have you still got that horse? Nah, it's gone. What happened to it? I just, every critter ground I went to, I was like, I've got to get rid of this. Where's the horse? I'd, you know, drag it out of people. or start feeding it or stroking it. And it just got too much for us. Have you just let it fray? I let it go, no.

39:02Phil Tufnell: Gilo did it. Gilo did Olympics. Actually, Giles did the Olympics on the boundary, didn't he? He did, yeah. Long jump and so on. He did loads of Olympics. He does the riding of the horse. What did you call the horse? It was an Ashton Pit Pony. Was it?

39:17Michael Vaughan: Pit Pony. It's been nostalgia. If I had a call to me, it would be Silva because my granddad was a miner who looked after the horses. Right. He had a horse called Silva that only had one eye, so if you got on the wrong side of it, it would bite you. So that's something that I would get.

39:30Phil Tufnell: That was a Lone Ranger, I or Silva? Oh, yes. Tom Toe. You could have done with someone on the boundaries,

39:35Michael Vaughan: didn't you, down Bay 13, just to talk to? You could have done with someone. I had loads to talk to down there. I didn't need any more. They were all shouting at me, don't worry about that, I didn't need any more. Can we borrow your brain? Yeah, we're building an idiot. Yeah, no, we had it all. I had it all down there. It was great fun, though. Yeah. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. What about the franchise system? The IPLs, the ILT 20s, there's that many leagues, the 100. We're in the back end of the 100 now. Where do you stand on franchise cricket in comparison to, obviously, the Test game?

40:16I've got one year on my contract left with England. And then we'll see where I've gone from there. but that could be the world that I might have stepped into. But my answer would categorically, 100 % be that England would always be my priority. I would never, ever look at anything else. If they had said no, then I'd be... That wouldn't even end up my mind. And our money's a big deal for people in terms of, like, you can earn huge contracts. And I've been in a franchise, I've been in IBL a couple of times. But England would always remain the big... And I've said this before, but I've never grown up thinking, I want to play for such and such.

40:52When I grew up, I used to pretend to stand for the national anthem in my garden and I'd write the test match in the game that I would play in the back garden and I'd do all the actions of the England lads. My dad would be Australia and that was the be all and end all, especially seeing Harmy at the local club. I'd be like, that's where I want to get to, that's who I want to be. It's never crossed my mind. It's obviously a big thing and lads can go off of that career that way but I feel like playing for England, World Cups Test matches Like winning a test match Is one of the best feelings And I feel like Sometimes franchise Lads are Very much focused on You can give this False perception That it's a team And we'll build this Team environment And everyone has Play a positive And be bold And all this kind of You know Self-help talk That all these teams Seem to have But really Is it a team That you love And you want to It's my favourite line It's a great bunch of lads Everyone says Oh we're going really well Have you ever heard anyone say, oh, it's a really, really cheap sellout?

41:51I hate the owners. You don't see too many lads with tattoos of the Trent Rockets on their arms. Not yet.

41:57Michael Vaughan: If they win it this year, they might get some. Or the Badgers or something. You've got to be careful as a current player, because if I was to speak like this and then all of a sudden no-one will pick us up saying that's your views. But actually, that's how I feel like it. Do you keep an eye on the 100 the last three and a half weeks or the IPL in March, April, mate, because I'm forever, doesn't it? Do you keep an eye on it? Honestly, I don't know. I will keep an eye on certain players, like my friends or lads, and see how they're doing, but I would never follow the tournament of the IBL closely because it's just so many games and it's not...

42:30It's not where you are at the moment. No, no. For example, when Mo and Ali was there, I'd look how Mo got on and how he did, but I wouldn't watch the whole match and think, oh, this is how it's panned out. It's just, I don't know, just not... I prefer when I'm not at the cricket to get my mind elsewhere and then when I'm on, I'm on. So I throw myself at my family. The last couple of weeks I've been to the York, Viking York Centre. Have you? I've been there. It's near Dave. I live there. I've been doing the paddle pool, diving in with my kids with catchers and stuff like that. So I throw myself at all that stuff like that rather than watching religiously on the telly.

43:10Michael Vaughan: What have we made of this year's 100? It's coming to the back end, obviously finals day. next Sunday. Do we feel the tournament's gathering a bit of momentum? Because it has been, it's very much them and us, isn't it? You either love it or you hate it. I think it's changed a bit. Do you think the narrative's changed? I couldn't think of the word you've got, but I do think it's changed. I think now people understand what franchise cricket is more about in our country. I think there were so, there were so many strong views against it when it first came in. And now I think people understand what it's there for.

43:43and I know it's changed the traditional structure of our domestic game but I think people now associate it they enjoy it and I'm going to say the stand of the cricket is good now the pitches I think haven't been great this year which I think Oval and Heddenley have been exceptional haven't they? Esbust and Decent

44:00Michael Vaughan: yeah that's all the grounds but the pitches are slightly better I've really enjoyed it and I say I took my kids there on Saturday well you did you came in the con box there was about 65 of them they weren't meant to be

44:12Phil Tufnell: I've been been to the games double headers 11 ,000 16 ,000 at Old Trafford great fun I think we've treaded water because of the sale I think that the standard is okay I think there's some really good players and some very poor players Name some Name some of the poor players No I would never do that but you know No I just I think I disagree I think the standard Jeremy Paxman then, won't he? Jesus, yes. Babes. I just think they're good. The standard, I think, is really good. I think the standard's been excellent this year. I'm with you on treading water. Yeah, I think it'll improve.

44:55Michael Vaughan: I'll tell you what I think they've got to get right. You can't start, and it is now our premier tournament here in the UK. That's a fact. You can't start it the day after a test series. No. You've got to give. That was weird. We were there. You've got to give. We were. Just a little bit of, even if it's three or four days, Just for all the lads to get together and the girls just to get with their team and just get a little bit of training amongst each other.

45:19Phil Tufnell: Do we think that the 100 will go back to T20 and that will be our franchise T20 league? Yes. And the T20 blast will disappear? Well, whether it disappears or it becomes a... But if in the 100 you've got three more teams, Durham, Chelmsford, Taunton, if that would enhance the tournament and bring it to more of the country, And that would be our franchise tournament. And then the franchise champions of the Caribbean and India and South Africa and England, Australia. No, that wouldn't work. Do you not think that would be on the table? It would be good, but it wouldn't work because all the players play for the same team.

45:59Yes. Now Mumbai Indians are going to want the Mumbai franchise players on a contract to say, you're going to play in Mumbai, you're going to play in Cape Town, you're going to play in London. Yeah. So they would have the same sort of... So you're going to move away from international contracts and you're going to have franchise contracts where it's almost like club cricket. Have you ever been offered one of those?

46:19Michael Vaughan: Like a full-on contract? I've been offered something like that, but not an official, there it is on the table. But there is that in place where it's like, if you want to leave international cricket, we will offer you a chance to play South Africa, India. Who's your favourite team? in the IPL? Just trying to work out which way you go. The one that writes the biggest check. I'm waiting to see who it's from. I don't think that would work because in a way the thing that annoys me a little bit is that when you come into the franchise well there's these great players but they'll play for the same you don't get new blood on you it's like oh there's another player playing for this team you lose track of who's where all over the world and that's where it gets like sort of Do you think do you think they should keep the 100 format even if the owners come in.

47:09It'll be better next year because of the money that will come in from there. Yeah, but do you know the actual 100, the actual 100 format where you can bowl 10 balls on one end, you can, like, I actually think it makes it different to other leagues. The one thing I like about it is if you go and work in the IPL,

47:22Michael Vaughan: all right, it's a great product, but the game goes on forever. Yeah. It really is a long game. 20 overs last, what, an hour and 50 minutes? And then there's a 20 minutes and then another hour, it's like a four and a half. It's a game finish at 2am. Whereas the 100, you know it's three hours done and done.

47:35Phil Tufnell: But in the IPL, they're lengthening the game because you get more adverts in, and that's for the TV, for the broadcast. Well, you can review wide, can't you? Yeah, they have what they call that strategic timer. Just get out there and smack it for six. Make sure you don't get out and make sure they can't hit them. But ultimately, if you're looking at the 100 and the other competitions, they will get better with this investment if the Indian players can come and play the other competitions at the minute they can't play anything but their own product so if they can come out and then all of a sudden you start getting interest from India because their favourite player is playing for Manchester or their favourite players all of a sudden the standard goes up the money goes up and all of a sudden other players want to come in from other countries and that's where it will pick up

48:25Michael Vaughan: I don't think in the UK we've spoken enough about the pool of players now that are being developed and the pathway programmes that are being produced by all the counties. Now, this Metro Bank Cup, I mean, you've been through some games. Some of these young kids that are getting a chance to play in front of 4, 5, 6, 7 ,000, they would never, ever have got that chance. So you've got the 100, which is for all the stars and all the...

48:46Phil Tufnell: It's a great debate. And then you've got... It is a super debate because I'm loving the Metro Bank because these young kids are getting a chance. You can see them. They've got to do it. You know, just Thomas Roo for a start down at Somerset. Kangaroo. These qualiums. Surrey have lost 15 to the 100. So they are literally playing. They've got two young players, Oliver Sykes, Thomas at the top. They wouldn't have played, would they? They wouldn't have played. Who's the young Somerset Quick, 18-year-old Thiedem? Thiedem, you like him, don't you? Oh, yeah. He played against Yorkshire, first game. And he's come running and he banged it in short and got tapped out for 13, 15, first over coming.

49:29Phil Tufnell: And he bowled really well. I'm not bothered how many runs he went for. It's his first game, 18-year-old, and he had wheels. He had some wheels to keep us taking it up at you. It was good. I forgot about that. I forgot that as well, isn't it? If he goes for 13, does he come back? He came back, absolutely.

49:43Michael Vaughan: You see what they're about. It was funny that day. My mum and dad went to watch that game. They were. I actually got 95.

49:49Phil Tufnell: Oh, did he?

49:50Michael Vaughan: It was funny because you've got 3 ,500 Yorkies in the crowd. And I'm thinking, hey, my lad's going to play against Yorkshire. Surely it'll give him a little bit of an ovation. so he's getting a few Yorkshire fans gave him donuts I was there I was there it was did he get out or not he tried to whack a six oh which I cannot Mike Phil I'll just knock it around the crowds the crowds have been good as well very good

50:19Phil Tufnell: they played at York played Lancashire at York Somerset at York Tuesday Thursday the grounds were full they were brilliant I mean the weather's been great

50:28Michael Vaughan: as well fantastic in the 100 I don't think there's been one game affected by rain. That's why Gardner's brown. Oh, we're there with Billy War. Have you still got Little John? Yeah, he's still... He's not warring, yeah. He can't do the whole field. He's that big. Fields. Fields. Have you got some fields, Philip? No. At the back of us. He's got Nicky Beach in his garden. Nicky Beach. Yeah, Nicky Beach in Ibiza. No. It's like a beach club. OK. He's got it in his garden. It's like just a pub. LAUGHTER

51:01Phil Tufnell: That's when he lived in Jorkoobie's shed. What, Joe? That's a good memory. You remember that? I do. He lived in a shed in a garden. I had many good months there. A bit chilly in winter. A bit chilly in the winter.

51:19Michael Vaughan: Woody, the ashes. Come on. Possible. Chance. Yeah. Genuine chance. Well yeah You've got to I mean I'm not going to sit here And say no I'm not Like we've got to have A genuine belief that And I think over the last Little period I think Every time I've played for England When we got into Australia That seems to be like The end point You know what I mean Like you get into Australia And then it's like Oh well we'll judge ourselves On this Whereas this team Hasn't felt like that really It's been like I know we've had that In our sights But it's been more about How they've played And how we're going to You know go about things As a team And I think Going to Australia now It's more like Right we're going to Tech them on like this rather than thinking, oh, how are we going to go and are we going to win games?

51:56It's more like we've got a style of play, let's take it on.

52:00Michael Vaughan: Absolutely. You're right, because usually at the end of an Ashes series, I mean, I look at the England squad now and usually you come towards the end of that and you go, oh, there'll be three or four. Which sometimes sees a bit off, doesn't it? Yeah, usually. But whatever happens... Having that goodness time. Having that goodness time. Something will happen, won't it? Something will happen. It's still a relatively young England side. Yeah. If you think about the 27 Ashes back here, I would think, if they're playing well, I would say the majority of the team now will be in contention to play in 27, if they're playing well enough.

52:31Michael Vaughan: Do you think Jacob will be captain in 27, though? Of course he will. He'll be fresh, will he?

52:44Michael Vaughan: Woody, of all the things you've done in your career, what's the one at the minute that you go, yeah, that day or that week? World Cup. Oh yeah! I think for the first one to be a part of that was immense. 18 wickets in the World Cup. I actually was really pleased with that. Before the World Cup started there was this like, am I going to make it, am I not going to make it? Joffre was obviously coming in and you were probably looking at me, David Williard, maybe Tom Curran who didn't play again, we were probably the three. because Plunkett was always going to be there. Wooks was always going to be there.

53:21So it was, right, are we going to swap Archer for me, pace for pace? Is it going to be Death Bowling? So is it Archer for Curran? Or is it going to be Archer for what? Are that point of difference with left arm? It was a sad day. I mean, I got loads of bad press around it because David Willey was part of that team. And of course, then it was like, oh, well, Joff's got to come in, but you sort of don't want anyone in your team. And David Willey missed out. Yeah, and it was harsh on him and Dave was someone I was close to as well at the time, so I felt for him, but I was really proud of that World Cup from a personal point of view that I managed to get a decent amount of wickets when I probably was on the block at one point thinking, could it have been me that was gone?

54:04Nose was rocking. I hated that day. Did you? I hated the final night. I mean, I look back now and think it was amazing, but the day itself, it was a horrible game to be a part of. It was like up and down. I've only watched it back once and I hated my first spell I was so like charged up for it that I bowled an absolute pile of rubbish like I remember watching it back and I'm thinking I've watched it back and I'm thinking what am I doing? just hit the top of this like there was enough in the wicket and I'm like I'm trying to bowl big and then I'm bouncing and I'm like what am I doing? just bowl it there where it's a bit of nibble terrible wicket wasn't it?

54:39for a final but it made a great game I think the whole tournament was a bit like that. We were thinking if we get flat pitches, we'll just outback everybody. We'll get loads. Two 60s were good. But it was never like that either.

54:51Michael Vaughan: It was a bit in it. What were the one-day team now? Obviously, World Cup winning 19, T20 World Cup winning Melbourne was 21. And since then, it's been a difficult time for the one-day side. A bit of swapping and changing, coach, captain, difference. Where do you think the ODSI sit now? and how they're going to get into that position of winning trophies again by obviously early next year, there's another World Cup. Yeah, I think the ODI team obviously went through that transition, like you said, I think we just didn't play to the potential. I mean, that 19 team was so regimented in everyone, the way that they played, the role, the way it was led, were more in terms of everyone knew how we were playing as a team, what the structure was, how it was going to go.

55:34And we sort of went like Test cricket was obviously more of a priority in and out and I think as well we probably looked for too many excuses like it actually hurt me seeing how hurt Joss was as a captain like I didn't perform how I should have done and we had all these excuses oh well red ball cricket or we've not done this or we've not done that but actually like just didn't play well enough we were left behind other teams were playing better and had sort of caught up to the way that we were playing and then we didn't take that on and then lads that had come into the team it was all on like well our reputation of doing this or doing that but actually like how many times did the bowlers get over the line?

56:10How many times did I bowl that match in and over? How many times did the batter come in and whack that over that the previous team would just seem to find a way of doing it? Like Stokes, he would do it. Or Moan Alley would come in at the end. Joss would be there. It was just a settled team that everybody sort of knew. And Plunkett would come on in the 32nd over and get two wickets and he'd be like, he's just bowled cross seam at the top of the stumps. But like everybody knew how.

56:34Michael Vaughan: Is that the key, I mean, to that success in 19? was over the course of four years, you all absolutely knew your roles. And have we gone away from that?

56:42Phil Tufnell: Because Morgan was kingpin, wasn't he? Morgan was the, he ran the show. Do you think they'll bring him into the next World Cup, just bring him in?

56:51Michael Vaughan: Well, I don't know whether that's on the cards or they're thinking about that, but I don't know of a better cricket. I don't know. I think the one-day team, a little bit, got crippled by that, like, you have to play like this because that team played like that. Right. So it got crippled a little bit, like, oh, we play this type of cricket and this brand, and it has to be built on a reputation that maybe wasn't for that group that had come in. And then, of course, you crippled that with a changing of the team, because the Red Bull team's getting priority, so the White Bull team would change for this series, then it would change for that series, and you weren't playing at the same times of year.

57:30So that was factors, but ultimately, I think you've got to look at yourself as a team We just didn't step up when the best players should have stepped up. I also think now, Luke and that one-day side, they've now got a group of players who've played 30, 40 games. And I think, I don't care what anyone says in international cricket, you need some experience of international cricket from the core group. That's why we're linking a little bit of that to the Ashes. You go in there now, the top seven, I don't take Jamie Smith out of it, but he's played 15. All of them have played 50, 60 games. And I look back at a part of our success at certain times.

58:02actually the only times we had some success when we had a group of players who had seen it done it and also experienced the bad bit of international cricket and the good bit had done both and then you got people who can handle themselves in all situations I think the one day side was exactly I think Woody summed it up they tried to play like Morg's side with different players but with players who haven't done what I call the wave up and down first and I think now new captain like Brook leading it but with a group of players people like Duckett have done it for a while and I think you'll see them pushing and it's easy to see at the time just play like this but there's a fear of failure in a way that if you have a couple of failures on this wave then all of a sudden you didn't quite believe or you second guess yourself whereas with Morgie's team you never ever had that and I think McCollum will be the same the way that he promotes it he wants people to express themselves or change the game and it's all again I'm back to the franchise world it's easy to have all the great buzzwords of be positive Well, how are you being positive?

59:04What does that mean? The one thing is that.

59:10Michael Vaughan: The best team you could argue over the last 10 years in all formats has been New Zealand. I mean, they haven't won major things, but they maximise everything that they have in their group by being smart. I just would love the word smart to be used more in the modern game. We all want to play expansively. I love getting on the front foot and go for it if the conditions allow. but there are times when you go probably not there for that at the minute so just play smart play clever, box clever, that's it that's it, that's it Phil just work their hands that's it, just play smart the best sports teams are always smart teams the best sports teams don't play just one way Mike, do they?

59:52Phil Tufnell: who's the most difficult batter that you've bowled against? who do you think, well this is twice I was questioned. Yeah. In different stages of my career, I would say Rochama, difficult. Oh. Because against the short ball, you feel like, for myself, I've got a chance of getting him out. Right. But also if he's on that day, he smokes it. So he was difficult. I always felt like his bat was like... Yeah, big. Just kept getting whiner. Kept getting whiner. Coley, obviously, unbelievable competitor. that. Someone that I felt you have this weakness of fourth, fifth stump, drag him in. We seem to never miss him when I bowled him there.

1:00:32So that was difficult. Smith, because he's so unorthodox in terms of you think he should get to LBW but he doesn't miss it. You then bowl it wide and he hits it. So he was quite, he's quite hard to bowl to. Marsh, again, for that Henley and things like that where he takes away your length. You feel like your margin is small if you're up there. He sort of stands on top the bounce and cans it. If you're short, he pulls it. I'm trying to think who else I've really struggled against or who I've found hard. Oh, the good ones. Well, they're the best ones.

1:01:03Phil Tufnell: I mean, you mentioned Sharma and Coley, you know, two gun Indian players who didn't play in this series, but India looked a fine side. Oh, I tell you something, I like that. I'm like, some McGill. Oh. Jesus Christ, he's got an easy... Jai Swal.

1:01:18Michael Vaughan: Jai Swal.

1:01:18Phil Tufnell: He's mad. Wide, Phil. Pant. How do you bowl at Pant? I think you've got to hold your nerve. That's basically what I would say. Because I think you can't be so unpredictable that then that plays into his hands that he can just stand there and he waits for anything difficult. But if you have the same all the time, then he's got such a good eye, he sort of hits it where he wants. So I think you've got to have a mixture of hold your nerve to maybe the odd ball that's a bit unpredictable, whether it's a slower ball or you might change up with a really high bouncer or a fast yorker, like something slightly different.

1:01:51but hand to head 18 yards yeah

1:01:59how would you

1:02:03Michael Vaughan: it'd probably just go tweak

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1:02:45Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Right, we'll finish with community questions. Hello. We've had a few sent in for you. And the first one is, which Aussie would you like to have dinner with? In the current team, are any Aussie? Yeah, I was going to say, Paul Ogun. I'd love to have dinner with Steve Irwin. He's going to cry. Crikey. I reckon out of the current team, probably one of the ballers, just to pick their brains on bowling in general, probably someone like a Cummins. I've got action envy a little bit with Hazelwood. He's got such a nice action and it looks like it's just so...

1:03:25I'd be like, why is it so good? It looks like you're not trying. Maybe one of them too.

1:03:31Michael Vaughan: Right, here's one. If you're in charge, I don't know if you are actually, if you're in charge of post-match fines for the England team, who would you find first and why? Stokes. For any reason. Really? He tells us what a day, I'll have time, I just want to get one back on him. yeah yeah Stokes Stokes without a doubt I mean I I like to push his buttons a little bit obviously growing up with him from about 15-16 on the academy and now the way he speaks he's got this TV voice and I look like I just keep reminding him but he has this like I'll push him and push him and then he has this look where I've just gone that one bit too far and I just ran it back in I mean the last time I played with Stokes he was bowling and it wasn't quite gone how he wanted it.

1:04:15And I went, look, I can suggest something if you want it, but tell us where to go if you want it. And he just went, fuck off. Fine. And I went and batted him it off and just thought, right, I'll just let him get on with it.

1:04:27Michael Vaughan: Brilliant. The last one. Are we doing enough to encourage youngsters to play cricket? Yeah, I think so. I help out the local at Ashton. I still go back and do the All-Stars cricket for me. Did I see Army's lad get 184 not out for him? That was his nephew. I saw a Harmasons get 184. I mean, that's a million Harmasons. That's a million Harmasons. But yeah, one of them, yeah. So he's doing really well. Charlie, Harmy's son, he's doing... He's just brought his collarbone, but he was going really well. A quick bowler, so... Yeah, plenty coming through. But like I say, all-stars, I still try and help out the club there with my little lad, and there's plenty going up and trying to promote the game like that.

1:05:04Do the youngsters still want to bowl fast? Yeah, but when they ask me, and I'm like, oh, I like trying it in, and they're like, they're not bothered. I just want to fling it down any way they can. But I think that's good. It would be interesting to ask someone like a bumble, like if you had a young bummer in the nets now, like back when he was coach, would you coach that out of them and try and get their action? No, definitely not.

1:05:23Phil Tufnell: But this week I've been, you remember Moyen Ashraf? Yeah, yeah. Moyen Ashraf Academy, been down to, just outside Dewsbury, Wakefield Way, and he's had a festival on. It was absolutely brilliant over three days. 72 kids, under 13s, from cities, north of England cities. unbelievably well organised. The talent, blown away by the talent, a 13-year-old, they were wonderful. I think that were kids that played scoops and everything. No, I think I'd never play anything. The little guy comes in, he's got helmets and all that. Like that, over his head, quick ballers running in. Under 13. The scoops, I was like, how'd he get on?

1:06:04How'd he get out? I caught scooping. It's like 10 years.

1:06:08Michael Vaughan: Well, I'll mention the... You mentioned Stokes. So the Knight Stokes Cup, the state school T20 tournament that we launched a few months ago. So with the schools going back next week, it's still a chance to the end of October for them to put their names down, to put their school, their teams into the hat for next year. The finals date is going to be at Lords September 2026. And already we've had over 830 schools that have entered this tournament. and this is a tournament and I think 35 % are girls teams. What ages? It's under 15s. Under 15s. Yeah, so the first year, well, I'm probably speaking out of school, but hopefully over time it'll get more age groups, but to start with under 15s and we'll have a tournament next year for all the state sector and I'm hoping, again, probably speaking out of school, the finals days for regions will be at the county venues and then you work your way down and there's going to be a finals day next September at the home of cricket.

1:07:03Michael Vaughan: Brilliant, that day.

1:07:03Phil Tufnell: So this morning, Ashraf, which tournament did they play? What format? 100. 100. There you go. It was fabulous.

1:07:13Michael Vaughan: Yeah. Really good. Did I see you in Mac as well the other day on a picture? Who? You.

1:07:18Phil Tufnell: I saw you on Instagram. Mac. M-A-C-C, Moyn-A-S-R-A-F, cricket. I thought it was Mac. Mac in Nullaby. Macclesfield, all right. Moyn-A-S-R-A-F, cricket. Brilliant.

1:07:28Michael Vaughan: Yeah. Brilliant. He's doing a great job. Yeah. Brilliant. I'm actually doing a dinner for him on... He mentioned it. September 29th. He mentioned it. He mentioned it. Woody, brilliant, thank you for coming on good luck with the body we'll see you in Perth help me off

1:07:45Phil Tufnell: who's going to get him off that chair? where's the cotton wool? Kieran, Kieran

1:07:50Michael Vaughan: bring the stretcher Kieran

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