Mike Hussey on MS Dhoni, Australia & Test Cricket’s Big Questions | Stick to Cricket EP 25

0:00Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. Here we go. Back at the Perth State, look at this. It's impressive, isn't it? Phil, you've done some adverts in your time, haven't you? Yes, I haven't. I've done one last week for Maccas. Did you? It's not called Maccas. They call it Maccas, though. It's Maccas. Yeah, correct. I don't know if you've seen on social, but Huss has done an advert. Oh, has he? Have you taken Airbnb at the WACA? Airbnb? You're in a tent, aren't you? Yeah, they've got this tent set up at the Wacker.

0:34Four lucky people can come and live in this tent for one night, wake up, so the first night of the Ashes Test, go to bed, there's like a movie theatre sort of set up there on the Wacker, wake up in the morning on day two, play a bit of backyard cricket, have a bit of breakfast, walk over the bridge, come here, watch the second day of the test. It's magnificent. It's a big tent. It's like a glamping, you know? Is there an aircon in there? Because if it gets hot... It's hot in there, aren't it? Just open up the... Flyers? Yeah, there might be a few flies around. So you're on the WACA? Yeah, no one's ever done that before.

1:07Remind me not to win for that, mate. No. I'll be in my hotel room. So did you have to stay a night there? I'm just going to go in early on day two, play a bit of backyard cricket and have some brekkie with the four lucky people, and then get over here for the big game. Oh, that'll be nice. Yeah. That'll be good. Yeah. A bit of rain. There's a lot of adverts. There's a lot of, what we find in Australia, there's a lot of lunches. leading into the Ashes. I think Lord Botham's the busiest guy in Perth this week. Oh, he's doing the rounds. The big fella. Has he recovered from his axe? Had a bit of a crash.

1:46Had a bit of a crash. Can happen. It's dangerous. Golf can be dangerous. Johnny Baxter. Has it been a great Maxwell? Johnny Baxter. Yeah. Dangerous out there, golf. Now, looking at the... Do you know, I mean, Huston's a local... The Barmy Army, where are they going to be positioned at this magnificent stadium. They'll be everywhere, won't they? I've heard a whisper at the MCG, by the way, that they've taken Bay 13. They've got it, have they? Yeah, that's where you used to get all your... I used to field there. I made my debut, MCG. Did you? Yes. Your England debut? Yes. Who gave you your cap? Gucci.

2:21Did he? Yeah, I don't think they'd allow it nowadays. Like, duty of care. And where did he... MCG got thrown the cap and then where did he put me to field first over? Bay 13. I sit there like that. It's all right early in the day out there. You don't want to be there after tea, after they've had a few beers. That line came. It was landers your brain with building an idiot. No, no, not there. Where was that? That was, I can't remember, somewhere, Canberra or something like that. Did you used to get nervous in the field? Yes. I did. Yeah, I did. I didn't like it. No, I didn't like it. And the other thing that happened, this grass that they've got over there, you see where it's cut like that, all down the squares and everything, because it's quite stiff, the grass here, isn't it?

3:02It's quite spiky. It wobbled at me. Yeah, yeah. It's nice. I was going...

3:11You had to sort of gauge it. I hadn't played in anything like that. I thought I was still drunk. You know what I mean? The ball's coming towards me. Jesus Christ, he's wobbling at me. He's moving at me. What about those high balls in the blue skies here? Oh, mate. Horrible. Oh, my God. MCG. The sun can get in the way too, Vornie. I've had one go right in the sun and just couldn't see it. Oh, yeah, have you seen us? I've seen that. Yeah, that's about it, yeah. I'll get replayed on Fox throughout the whole series at least three times. You're doing a bit of Fox, aren't you? Yeah, yeah, I'm doing it.

3:44It's good fun. Yeah, it is. Best play's the best place, isn't it? Second best play. Well, I prefer doing that to play in. What, come to me? Yeah, it's a lot easier. Get out there, get all the atmosphere and then go off, have a cup of tea. and watch all the boys get bombed.

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4:14Freddie Flintoff, he turned great hot and said, who the heck's this kid? He must be Mr Cricket. I haven't seen anyone love the game more than this bloke. Particularly in a place like India, there's so many players and there's so much pressure and stress. And Dhoni's got this beautiful way of just being able to take the pressure off her. You'd have played for England No Question at 21, I've got no doubt. You'd have probably broken Satchi's record. I was a right-handed, that's me, until I was eight years of age. But I turned left-handed because I wanted to be like A.B. That's amazing. I'm sorry.

4:44I just remember looking out and you were on one of the corporate blocks having glasses of champagne during the game. And I thought, what the heck? Which bowler challenged you the most? murally. It starts with the eyes and then the ball comes out of his hand. You can hear the revs as it comes down. Dale Stane just yelled out to the captain he goes, skip that, give me the ball. I don't want to get him out. I just want to kill him. I never know. He might not get the chance to come out and play it. Lord, so I better take this opportunity. It's about one or two in the morning. So I've jumped the fence but they've got all these laser security things.

5:16So these security guards come running from all directions, tackled me to the ground.

5:25Right, Huss, let's get into you. All right, come on, bring it on. So this is a little bit like This Is Your Life. Okay. Have you ever watched that show? Yeah, I enjoyed that show. This Is Your Life, Michael Hussie. What are your early recollections of cricket? My early recollections of cricket? Well, playing in the backyard with my brother Dave. If we had had the spirit of cricket back in those days, we would have been banned for life. There was bribery, there was cheating, there was sledging, there was... Bribery? Fights. Oh, punch-ups. Yeah, punch-ups. Who won the fights? Well, my brother Dave, he wouldn't play unless he got to bat first.

6:04He got two chances. He wouldn't go out when he was caught behind. So it ended up me chasing him around the house trying to punch him in the end. So it's probably where we learn our competitive spirit. But the other part of it is I loved Alan Border. He was my hero. Oh, absolutely. And I remember, you guys will remember this. Yeah. Remember the test match at the MCG? when AB's batting with Geoff Thompson and they're trying to chase down those runs. Caught by Geoff Miller. Caught by Geoff Miller. Sort of balloon, he took the catch. And England won by a handful of runs. That day there, because I was a right-handed batsman until I was eight years of age, but I turned left-handed because I wanted to be like AB.

6:39And that was the day. As soon as that game finished, out to the backyard, I said, I want to be like AB because he nearly got us home that day. I'm amazed. Oh, sorry. It's a true story. Is that right? So you used to go out like a right? I was a right-hander until I was about eight years of age, and then I thought, no, I want to be like AB, so I turned around. Don't worry, there's been plenty of times throughout my career when I was in a massive slump, I thought, I'd better change back here. I'd come out right-handed, that'll throw. Why don't you try and bust left-handed? I should have done, I should have done.

7:05I think Thorpe did that, you know. Did he? Yeah, I think Thorpe looked at it, I think he started right-handed, and then he sort of studied it and said, left-handers have got a better chance in Test cricket or something. How old was he at this stage? I think, well, no, similar. you know, 10 or something. Well, so when he's 8 or 10, he's thinking, 10 or something. No, no, no. He's sort of like, honestly, honestly, honestly. Crikey, that's amazing. That is interesting. So could you bat right-handed now? I'd struggle, but I do everything right-handed. Golf, play table tennis, ball, throw, everything right-handed, except batting.

7:42He does, I know you're the batting expert on the show, Phil, but he does excellent right-handed batting demos. I could see it there. Yeah, he does all the, on Fox, Fox, he's the demo master. He is the demo master. So that's your early memories of cricket. Alan Ball is your hero. We work with him at Fox. What about coming into, so the kind of, I always look at cricket, you know, you start your junior days and it's great, isn't it? It's lovely. And then you start to become a little bit more serious when you become a pro. What year was it, how old were you when you suddenly got paid to play cricket?

8:16Paid to play cricket? Probably my first ever Sheffield Tour match for Western Australia. 19 years of age. And I was, yeah, I loved my cricket all the way through, but I played a lot of squash as well. So I had to make the choice, really. Was I going to follow the squash path or was I going to follow the cricket path? So you were that good at squash you could have gone? I don't know, but I'd been through all the state junior pathways and stuff like that for squash, but my love was always cricket. So once I made that decision, right, I'm going to have a serious crack at it, I must have been about 15 or 16 at that sort of stage.

8:50and then I was in the pathways for the Western Australian stuff for cricket as well and then finally got a chance. I think Geoff Marsh had just retired from the Western Australian squad and so it was my chance to have him go. So who was in that team? When I first played? Yeah, yeah. We had a great team. Big Angel. Yeah, we had Justin Langer, Damian Martin, Tom Moody, Simon Kadic, Adam Gilchrist, Brendan Julian, Joey Angel Bruce Reid Bruce Reid It was a serious team That's a good sign Who did you play against? Lots of lefties Yeah, my very first game Was a game against Tasmania And do you remember He might be an umpire now David Milne Yeah, he played He played the best show He was the overseas player He was sticking with him Big chest And big Scotchy Chris Matthews He played Oh yeah He played as well David Boone A young Ricky Ponting This is your debut?

9:49This is my debut, yeah. Some names on that field. Mate, Arthur couldn't get in. Stewie Noor, Lehman, Bevan, Siddons. Martin loves Siddons. Martin loves Siddons. Some players couldn't even get a sniff. Yeah, that's right, yeah. Ricky Pining made 211. I'd never fielded for so long in my life. I was absolutely exhausted. And was it at the WACA? No, it was down at Bell Reve Oval in Hobart. And they made 500. And then Tom Moody made 270. And we made 500. I made a scratchy 16. What number did you bat? I was an opening batsman for most of my first-class career. So, yeah, I loved it. Loved it. I mean, it was a serious team.

10:28What was your first pay packet? You said that. What was it? Well, we didn't have contracts then, so I think I got maybe, I can't remember actually. It might have been$1 ,000 for the game. Oh, it's not bad. As a 19-year-old kid, I was loaded. Absolutely loaded. What were your per diems? What did you get every night to spend? I don't think we got those. So that was just part of the package? Part of the deal, yeah. You got$1 ,000, probably went, yeah. Down in her role. Maybe. I mean, I was a pretty naive young kid, but I learnt pretty quickly from some of those older boys. And was it, I mean, I started in 92, 93.

11:02When did you start? 80? 85. And it was very, the modern player, I mean, they're so fanboy, and they travel the world playing all these leagues, and you're in the, obviously, Chin-Eye dress room, you're in the welfare dress room. do they still have that, you know, having a beer after the day's play? I mean, that was pretty much ingrained. Yeah. Well, in every dressing room that I'm involved in, there's always a carton of beer in the cool room. God, for that. So it's ready to go. But not many of the guys seem to drink too much. A few will have a quiet beer, but I think it's a... Celebrate a win.

11:37Well, you've got to celebrate a win, but it's a good time to start talking about the game as well, you know. Does that still happen as much as it did back then? Well, it depends on which environment. So the Chennai Super Kings environment's phenomenal. So whereas, say, maybe Westerners will go to the bar or sit in the dressing room and have a beer and talk about the game and learn about the game there. In India, it's different because obviously culturally it's a lot different. But Dhoni is just the most amazing guy. His room is available open 24 hours a day. So anyone can go up there, just sit.

12:07He's got this big lounge room there. Players just sit around. They start talking cricket. And some of them like the shisha. You know, the flavoured tobacco stuff. And that's their way of socialising and talking about the game and things like that. And credit to Dhoni. You know, he just opens his room up. Anyone can come in. Lots of the players go in and just sit there and talk. They get a load of food. Yeah, they bring food up. It's fantastic. So it's just done differently all around the world. I mean, no mess to Dhoni. I played against him, actually. I think it was 2007. I remember India were batting out for a draw at Lourdes.

12:42six or seven down and I had to come on the light was coming I was I had to bulb myself and he just kept launching me into the pavilion he's trying to block out he's just launching me into the pavilion probably the best well he had the locks he had real long locks back in the day so you kind of realised he was something different but you've been around him for years you had to play with him with Chenine obviously now and the coach what is it that he's got? he's a special guy he sees the game differently to most and that's what I love about him I sort of see the game and I think oh yeah, this is how it should be played, or this is what you should be doing in this situation, he will almost go a 180 degree view and try and see it differently.

13:19But I think his greatest strength, particularly in a place like India, there's so many players, and there's so much pressure and stress. And you can see these young Indian guys, they want it so bad, they're trying so hard, there's so much pressure on their place in the team, there's a billion people watching them, huge crowds, and Dhoni's got this beautiful way of just being able to take the pressure off them. I'll give you an example. So, you know these, before a big game, or any game, you see the players that come out and do the huddle. You used to do it with England, and it's like the biggest load of rubbish.

13:48What did you used to say? I didn't say anything. I used to let other people tell jokes. Yeah, well, that's the thing. I don't remember anything that used to get said. What is it? Hit the top of off, you know, occasional bouncer, let's be on in the field, all that sort of... It's rubbish, right? Well, we were playing this game, Chennai Super Kings versus the Royal Challengers Bangalore. Like, big rival. It's at our place. The crowd is pumping. I remember standing in there, I was still playing at this stage, standing in there in the huddle, and he could see these young Indians were nervous as anything.

14:20Massive game. And he goes, boys, it doesn't matter if we win or lose today, just go and enjoy the game. Smile to the crowd, just try and execute your skills. But the most important thing is, I want to win the Fair Play Award this year. So if you get a wicket and the umpire gives it not out, don't argue with the umpire. Just get on with the next ball. If you get out and you don't think you're out, I don't want to see any arguing. Just go and relax. That's the way the game goes. And I remember thinking, what the heck are you talking about? If you get Chris Gale out for a duck, hit the shirt off and swing it around.

14:52And I remember thinking, what the heck is this guy talking about? But it wasn't until later that I realised that he was just trying to take the pressure off these young Indian players. Just go and play. Some days you win, some days you lose. Just try and execute your skills and just do the best you can. And you could almost see the stress coming out of these Indian players, particularly when it was such a big game. So I think that's his greatest strength. He's very calm, isn't he? But you used to see him keep, even the way he keeps. He's a brilliant keeper. I don't think I've seen a keeper like him before.

15:23When he stumps someone, he catches the ball and he goes forward. Most keepers, obviously, they take the ball and then they go away and then they come back. He's the quickest. He's the quickest I've ever seen. Yeah, unbelievable player. Yeah, properly. And, you know, Donnie, as someone who practices, does he practice hard? I mean... His keeping? Well, his game. Well, I've been at Chennai for, well, as a player for about eight years and now a coach for about eight years. I think the only time I've seen him catch a ball was when he wanted to knock in a new pair of gloves. So, now, it was about four, like some on the throne.

16:00So, I've never seen him practice his keeping, ever. but his batting he bats a long long long time he hits thousands and thousands of balls were you a big practicer I was yeah especially as a youngster I think that volume is important as a youngster but then as I got older I sort of tapered off a little bit it's more being mentally fresh so when Dhoni practices does he have scenario play or does he just hit balls is he saying to you as a coach I'm just going to try and hit sixes now or I'm trying to work the gaps on working on something technically Does he let you know? He just whacks ball? No, he pretty much just bats.

16:38And he just goes through different scenarios in his own head. So we did try a couple of things with him, because quite often, when he comes out to bat, the spinners will come on. You know, especially early, he'll just try and knock around the spinners. So we said, right, OK, come on. Starting in spin, just, you know, how are you getting off strike and things like that? Well, the spinners would come on. And he'd just smash them out of the park. It's like, oh, OK. But he now comes in really late in the innings, so he's pretty much trying to go from ball one. and he just practices that. I think he has fun, just smashing balls out of the park.

17:05I remember the early days. It was such a great experience. We had Muralee playing for us and a young Donnie. And the net sessions that those two used to have against each other, Muralee coming in, you know he's got these big eyes, like running in, you know, ball fizzing down, and Donnie, bang, hitting him out of the stadium. And Muralee, like, he's never experienced anything like this before. Just standing there watching those two sort of go head-to-head. You'd get him out 20 times as well, but he'd hit some of the biggest sixes ever. I'm glad you've mentioned Muralee. I did a function with Hados, Matthew Haydon, and he was telling me a story that it's a close call, actually, who is Mr Cricket.

17:40Is it Murrilee or is it you, Huss? It's hands down him, without doubt. You're known as Mr Cricket. Do you like that? Proper budget. Do you like that, that you're called Mr Cricket? I mean, you can be called a lot worse. It actually started in your country. I was playing for Durham and county cricket, and we were playing against Lancashire at Old Trafford. And Lancashire they had Jimmy was playing, Jimmy Anderson, Freddie Flintoff, Brad Hodge was the overseas professional. And it was one of those typical Manchester days. The cloud was this high, it was drizzly, it was cold. No one wanted to be there except for me.

18:17I was loving it. I'm charging between the wickets, diving in, chatting to my mate, come on, keep going. And Freddie Flintoff, he turned to Brad Hodge and said, who the heck's this kid? He must be Mr Cricket. I haven't seen anyone love the game more than this bloke. And Hodge, he thought it was quite funny. He brought it back to Australia, told Andrew Simons, the boys had a big laugh about it, and that's how it started. So bloody Freddie Flintoff started it.

18:38Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. So you made your test debut, 30? 30, yeah. What year was that? 2005, November, straight after. I'm glad you said that because I probably have told you over the years, I've worked here in Australia, but when you weren't picked in the 05 Australian, were you in the squad? No, I played the one-day series beforehand, but I wasn't in the test squad, no. Yeah, I remember sitting in many meetings going, thank F. No. I was like, thank God. 30, 30. Well, you were churning rooms out for fun for, because you played for North Ants as well. North Ants for three years, and I had half a season at Gloucester and a season at Durham.

19:18You were going to come to Middlesex, I think, when I was a young kid. I would have loved to, yeah. Playing at Lords, wow. I think we nearly got you at Middlesex. Where do you get that? You absolutely adore playing cricket, don't you? Yeah, I do. It's a nice game, boys. It's a great game. Not everyone has that same enthusiasm. You did have it. I don't think I did. No, no, perhaps not. There were days when you did that. If we're brutally honest, when the rain came in the UK, we were quite happy at times. I reckon you weren't. And we were, so there's a difference there. Yeah, there is. But to think that, you had to wait until 28 to make your one-day debut, 30 and 15, I think it's 15 ,500 runs before you play Test cricket.

20:03Was there a moment in that period where you thought, you know what, it's not going to happen? It's a good question. Yes, and it was probably a pivotal moment in my career. So when I first started playing as a 19-year-old or 20-year-old kid, my first four or five years of Shield cricket, I performed really well. I was scoring lots of runs, and the dream was obviously to play test cricket for Australia. That's all I wanted to do ever since I was six years old. But I couldn't take that next step to get in the Aussie team. The team was really strong. They weren't losing any test matches. They weren't getting injured.

20:34I just couldn't get in that team. And after about five years, I looked at the Australian team, and they were all aggressive players. There was Matty Hayden, there was Ricky Poynting, there was Adam Gilchrist, Damien Martin. Even Justin Langer, he was a bit of a nuggety player to start with, but he became a bit more aggressive as well. And my game was based around patience, you know, battle day, wear the bowlers down, run hard, work the ball, all that sort of stuff. And I thought, that's what the national selectors want. They want aggressive players. So I changed my game. I started thinking, right, I'm going to come in, I'm going to take it on a bit more.

21:04I'm going to play more shots. I'm going to put the pressure back on the bowler. And to be honest, it was the worst thing I could have done. I became very inconsistent. And I actually got dropped from the WA team for the last game of the season. And so when that happens, well, you dream of playing for Australia. So how old were you when you got dropped? So I must have been, I reckon, about 26, 27 maybe. And so, yeah, maybe 27. And so I'm sort of thinking, well, I'm not going to play for Australia now. And I made the decision coming into the following year. I thought, right, I'm just going to go back to playing my way.

21:37I don't care. I don't care about playing for Australia anymore. I'm just going to go and enjoy playing for WA, enjoy playing county cricket, enjoy my teammates. And you can still be proud of your 10-year first-class career, you know. And as soon as I did that, my consistency returned, performed well, and funny enough, an injury came and I got an opportunity. So the challenge for me was to sort of stay true to that. It's a bit like love, isn't it? When you go out looking for love, you never find it. And then you go, right, that's it. And then it comes along. And then you just get on the dating app.

22:12That just happens. Do you think there's still room? We were talking about the English boys and everything. Do you think there's still room for that? nuggety play? Good question. I have no doubt there is. No doubt. I mean, I still find a lot of beauty in watching those sort of players. A good league. Working their way through a tough situation, or a bowler's in the middle of a great spell, and you're in the contest. That's what I used to love. I used to love the contest. That's what I loved. And so when I got into a tough contest, whether it would be a spinner on the last day in the rough or it was on a juicy pitch and you're facing Jimmy Anderson, you know, I used to want to win that one-on-one battle, and that's probably where the love of the game came from.

22:48And that doesn't mean smashing them around, it just means winning that moment. Yeah, yeah. Staying there. And as I said, my game was based around patience, so I had a very clear plan to bat all day. The first session's going to be a hard graft. Middle session, hopefully you start to get a bit on top, and then the last session, right, now it's my turn. I'm going to catch you. I was to say, you know, your goal is about the whole day, but how do you break that down to do this? Six and a half hours. Well, yeah, it's tough, but I did have that clear plan, but probably around that sort of age that I'm talking about, 27, 28, 29, I started to work on my routine, my pre-ball routine and it takes a while to figure that out.

23:27So once I figured out what my pre-ball routine, I just practiced that religiously for the rest of my career because it didn't matter if I'd faced one ball, 20 balls, 50 balls, 100 balls. It was just the same process, ball after ball after ball. Did that come through just experience of flying? So, I mean, this is where the probably cricket badger or cricket nuffy comes into play. It was a process I went through. You know, you would have experienced it, and you would have too, I'm sure, with the ball. You have one of those days where it just feels easy. You know, it doesn't happen very often. In the zone.

23:57It's just in the zone, the flow, you know, all those words, you know. So I got out a piece of paper after one of those days, and I literally just spewed down as much information as I could remember. Just wrote it all down? Just anything I could remember in the lead-up to the game, what I did. What did I eat? Scrambled eggs. What I ate, how I slept, what did I do for training, how did I feel in the morning of the match, what did I do for warm-ups, how did I feel as I was walking out to bat, was I tense, was I relaxed, what was I thinking in between balls, what was I thinking, what sort of thing.

24:29And just put anything I could remember, just put it down on a piece of paper, put that in the drawer. Then fast forward maybe six months or maybe a year later, you have another one of those innings where it's just slow motion. This is just a dream. Same thing. Just spewed as much down as I possibly could. Did it five times over the course of about probably two or three years. And afterwards, I put out the five pieces of paper. Go on. All completely different. No, they weren't. There was actually a very clear trend of when I'm batting at my complete best, things that I do before a game, but more importantly, what are the things that were really important to me in between balls and during balls.

25:08And so that helped me. Because I'm convinced about the secret to batting. is as that bowler lets go of the ball, you are completely clear and you're just seeing that ball and reacting to the ball. It's such an easy thing to say and a bloody hard thing to do. But my routine helped me get to that place more often. It wasn't poached eggs or scrambled eggs then? No, I did like a big brekkie though. I would load up for breakfast. I wanted to fuel the body leading into the day. So what was your pre-delivery routine? You would have had a routine. I did, yes. What was it? Well, I used to have the hop, skip and the jump.

25:40I'm talking about with the bat. Oh, with the bat? Yes. I was usually shivering in the toilet. Is it me ripping up bits of sofa and turning them round me? So that pre-routine you're talking about there, but that's then you sort of, you know, boom, like that, and then, you know, you see the boys walk off, don't you? Yeah, yeah. No, that wasn't really part of it. I had a four-step routine in the end. Yeah. All right. So the first step, and that's probably too much for some people, but the first step was as the bowler starts his run-up, get into your stance, And I just had a quick checklist. Make sure this is in the right spot.

26:12Eyes are right. Everything's right. Hands are in the right place. The next step was to relax my arms because I was someone that tried too hard. So I wanted to relax my arms a little bit. Third step was, okay, now it's time to clear out all that negative thought, all that doubt, all those clouds. And then the last step was, as he lets go of that ball, just see that bloody ball. See it, see it, see it and react. And then switch off, go for a bit of a walk. Listen to some sledging. Smell the barbecue cooking. And then the bowler gets to the top of his mark. Bang, start the process again. You would have had a routine.

26:43Yeah, yeah. A trigger? Is it called a trigger? Yeah, a trigger. Well, you were dead still, weren't you? I stood still. Yeah, I stood still. So I had a trigger. I had a bit of a movement to get myself ready. Huss was one of the few, really, that's been absolutely rock solid. Sachin, he had a little movement. He changed. Sometimes he pressed forward. Sometimes he went back and across. But Huss, you stayed. And that was whiteboard cricket as well, wasn't it? Yeah, I just tried to stand still. But I had like a bit of a, you talk about a trigger or whether it's psychological, my hands would sort of bounce a little bit.

27:12So maybe that was my little movement to get going. So that would have been, well, your late 20s that you find that out. Yeah. So that's why, you know, I look at players these days, and I guess we're to blame as well in the media, that we talk about players and consistency. It takes a long while for you to understand playing the game and what works for you. Again, someone like Jacob Beth is a perfect example. We've got Sam Constance here in Australia. These kids haven't been given enough time to understand what it is. How do you know what to do when you've not done it for that long? And the problem is they pick them in front of the whole world, in front of commentators that are picking apart techniques.

27:51They're still trying to figure out their game and make runs. They should be doing that in first-class cricket out of the public eye almost. I quite like that, though, in a funny sort of way. If you haven't got any scar tissue or clouds or whatever sometimes, It's a bit like Wayne Rooney when he first played. Michael Owen. Michael Owen. Just get in there, youngster. It's only a small few. Yeah, only the top, top, top. Usually, if you look at, again, England's great players over the last 25 years. Joe Root's a great, great player. I think he got 500 before he played for England. Stuart Broad had had a few 5 'ers.

28:28Jimmy Anderson, a few 5 'ers. Even though they were picked young, they'd still done Alistair Cook a couple of seasons with Essendon. at least a little bit of something. I'm not saying they need four or five years. I think you weren't picked because of the quality. They couldn't get in. That's different. You'd have played for England, no question, at 21. I'm no doubt. Absolutely. You'd have ended up with... You'd have probably broken Satchett's record. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have. I've done some geeking over the last few days. You average over 50 in Test cricket and just under 50 in 50 over cricket and 37 in T20 cricket, which is remarkable.

29:12Good stats, Mike. Just a little bit of jet lag. Just a little bit of jet lag. That'll put you to sleep right now at my stats. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. So, as a coach now, those four pillars, if you like, Do you pass that on to the player Or do you let the player come to you and say Oh Horsey have you got anything And then you give it to the player I'm generally because I don't want to fall into the trap Of this is the way I did it this is going to work for you Because we're all so different And I am very structured and organised And everything mapped out But that would not work for Andrew Simons If he starts thinking too much he's stuffed So I don't try and impress anything on the players I more have conversations Ask lots of questions I do impress that I think a routine will be helpful for you, but you've got to figure out what your routine is.

30:04My routine won't work for you. You've got to figure out what works for you. So we can try different things. We can throw around different options. But I'm in the camp from a coaching point of view where the player takes ownership and responsibility for their game. I can't go on bat for them in the middle. They're going to have to go and do it. so I'm here to help and service you as much as I possibly can and offer suggestions but you've got to figure it out and if someone doesn't you just sort of alright mate well some guys don't want to especially once you get to the international level they feel like a routine in the longer form always seems kind of better to find because you obviously back for a longer period of time so you'd find it did you have exactly the same routine in white ball cricket?

30:53It's a good question. I definitely still stuck to my routine, but my mind was thinking a lot more in short form of the game, like thinking situation of the game. What do we need to be doing here? Where can I target him here? Where can I find a boundary here? But I actually quite like the mentality of it now. So let's say, for example, we're getting towards the back end of a 50-over game and I've got to try and find a few boundaries. Someone's bowling to me. I was thinking, OK, I think I can get him here, here or here. So in the old days, you say, don't premeditate. But I think premeditation is actually OK in white ball cricket.

31:26Well, probably any cricket, really, because then you go through your routine. As he lets go of the ball, I've still got to see it. Oh, it's the wide one there. OK, that's where I can get him. So you're still making a decision. So you still are in the present and clear and then making a decision. Players get themselves in trouble. It's like, this ball's got to go for six, and it's going there. So you've got two or three options in your brain. Yeah. And then you say routine, blah, blah, blah. And then if it's there, that's where I fancy him. If that's one here, that's where I'll find him. And if it's something that you're just not expecting, then let's just get that on it and get down the other end.

31:54There's a lot going on. Yeah, there is. There is. That's right. There's a lot going on. And that's why it works for me, but it probably wouldn't work for Vaughn. You batted in the engine room in Whitewood Cricket. To average near almost 50. Yeah, but you get a few not outs in there as well. I think my jet lag research told me that I think the first 29 innings in Whitewood Cricket you averaged over 100. Is that right? Well, I don't know. I don't follow the stats. I don't really care about stats. Well, I think it's Chuck Gibb. I don't know if it's lying. You come out strong. I should have retired then, shouldn't I?

32:25I can't remember. I don't think I played against you, did I? I reckon we played a county game. Did we? So Northance versus Middlesex. It was at Lourdes. Yeah. Actually, I was playing for Gloucester then. And it rained. And I just remember looking out, and you were on one of the corporate blocks having glasses of champagne during the game. And I thought, what the heck? It was raining. And you were all right. He was like, I'm going to play. We didn't come back out. So, yeah, I do remember that game. Yeah, we did it. Beautiful shape. I loved your shape. I tell you what, I'm just looking down, and he's been out there a while, at the Perth Stadium.

32:58Joffre Archer's got a big set of headphones. Where is he? And he's down below, and he's doing, like, big, not sprints, but run-throughs all across. He can move, though, can't he? Yeah, he's doing, and he's been doing it for a while. I didn't want to interrupt while you were talking about it. I kept on seeing him. He's going, oh, he looks fair. He can move. He looks fair. Slithery, slithery. Yeah, I don't want to see that running in there. He's got a nice little bumper on him. He's got a nasty bumper. That series when he hit Steve Smith. Oh, Jesus. And he hit Marnus. Next ball. It's his debut, that.

33:25I remember watching that. That was one of the most, not in a bad way, obviously. But that was one of the most exciting little spells. There he comes. There he goes. He moves too easy, doesn't he? He's doing it. I love it. Smith had already gone off. Marnus comes in as the concussion room. Whopped on the nose. He sprung back on. And he bounced straight back up. Come on, yeah, bring it on. He could be a Mr Cricket candidate, I'll tell you what. Who, Marnus? Marnus. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, you kind of pass on your mantle, don't you? Well, I'm happy to pass it on to you. Because you used to sing the song, didn't you?

33:59I did, yeah. How many years did you do that? What was the Aussie song? Underneath the Southern Cross. So when we won a test match, we'd all get together and sing the song. And so I take over the team. Justin Langer passed it on to me after 2006-07 series. so because he retired and so from there till I retired 2013 I passed it on Good voice you've got a good voice nah not really but it's a huge I'm not going to it's called Pop Idol so we don't we don't we don't have a song do we? we're not really we just put a bit of Elton John on that Rod Stewart yeah we didn't have Oasis no we didn't even have Huddles it's a great great tradition it's passed down I think Rodney Marsh started it Alan Border did it Ian Healy Ricky Ponting especially when the Oppo era oh yeah I'd normally wait till quite late.

34:46I used to love the boys sitting around in the dressing rooms. Well, you can call it. Is that right? You're in charge. So it's quite funny because Ricky Ponding is someone that I just love. He's a gun. A great captain. And we'd win this beautiful, brilliant test match and we'd be sitting around having a few beers, celebrating, having a good chat. And Ricky would say, come on, Huss, when are you doing the song? Ricky, you just sit down and relax, mate. I'm in charge now. So you could leave it for hours if you wanted to? I could stretch it out for as long as I want. Or you get it done straight away.

35:13What was your preference? I like to stay in the room for years and years. Years if I could. So you had a few hours in the dressing room drinking a few. Everyone had a snooze. How did you get to that moment and go, right? So we put this, there's a song that gets played before we sing the songs, John Williamson. He's a famous sort of Aussie muser. We put his song on and then everyone goes, oh, oh, okay, no worries. So they all get their bag of green caps on. I'd normally like to take it out of the dressing room to go and find a spot on the field. We did one at the Adelaide Oval inside the scoreboard one year.

35:45That was great. We did one in Gaul. You know, the fort? On the fort? On the castle lanes or whatever they call it. The BBC once had to broadcast from that fort because they weren't allowed in the ground. Jonathan Agnew was on the fort on the roof. It's a good honour. Who's in charge of it now? I passed it to Nathan Lyon and he's now just relinquished it, which was a bit controversial because he's obviously still playing, to Alex Carey. So he moved it on, did he? Yeah, he did, yeah. He never felt 100 % comfortable with it, Gaz. No, no. Well, it was a bit like the dancing, Mike. I never felt 100 % comfortable with the dancing.

36:27I was all right in whole. It was that Latino stuff. That's indigenous. Latinos. And the Charleston. Oh, the jive. There's always that little 1 % or 2 % of self-consciousness, isn't there? I don't know how you guys did that. That was a great effort. No, we don't know. Didn't JL keep his baggy green on for about two weeks or something when he was on tour in England or something? When he first got it. Was that just a lie? No, I don't know, but he probably would have. And he would have been walking around just his jocks rat and that's it and just the baggy green cat. And the baggy green. What's the game of cricket at the minute?

37:02Where do you reckon it sits? We've got this test game, we've got some powerhouses at the top, England, Australia, India. Powerhouse South Africa winning the World Championship final, which was huge for them. Where's it going? Test cricket? I'm worried about test cricket. I'm worried. I think it's going to come down to the players' appetite for test cricket in the future. And I think, thankfully, in England, Australia, India in particular, there's still an appetite for the best format of the game. It's the biggest challenge. It's probably where you get most respect from your peers if you can perform in test match cricket.

37:38But I am hearing from a lot of players that they have no appetite to play test cricket. It's too hard on the body. They don't get paid enough in certain parts of the world. They can go off and play these T20 leagues around the world and get paid ten times as much for half the effort. So that's where I'm concerned. But I think it will come down to the appetite of the players at the end of the day. I think series like this are crucial. Oh, yeah. And England-India as well. We're very lucky and we get full hours. India-Australia last year was massive. Yeah, yeah. We're lucky. The last three India-Australia series here in Australia have been fantastic.

38:13But it can't just be India-Australia and England. We need other countries to be strong as well. I hope it doesn't go down this path, but I'm sort of wondering if it'll be in the future where you might play for, let's say, a Chennai Super Kings. They own a team in the Indian Premier League. They own a South African League. They might own a 100 team. They might own one in the UAE, and they might sign you up, and you play for the Chennai Super Kings, and you're playing all these leagues around the world and then every now and then you come back and play for your country, maybe in a World Cup, a bit more like a football mentality.

38:46You play for your Manchester United and then when there's an international window, you might come back and play for your country. And I hope it doesn't go down that way. I would hope that playing for your country is the number one and the pinnacle and test cricket is the number one. But I don't know and that's why I'm a bit fearful for the future. It's going to come down to money, isn't it? Well, it is. It's money. What if... You've got to pay the players. What if a Mumbai Indians came to, I don't know, who's the best player in the world? I'd say Geoff Rarcher. Geoff Rarcher and said, OK, we'll give you$100 million.

39:17100 million pounds. You come and play for all our teams around the world. OK, you can't play for England all the time, but for a World Cup, we'll let you go and play for England. It's a pretty big decision to make. A bit like the golf, live golf. Well, you mentioned, if Saudi suddenly stopped putting the cricket league on as well, they'd have got a bit more money than most. I think we're not far off that. I might have to get the boots back on, Mike. There won't be anyone else left. How long would it take you? Might be a senior. When you said 100 million, how long would it take you, Phil, to...

39:45Not long.

39:49I'll get rid of that. I'll turn that out. Three lines or 100 mil. Oh, there you go. Come on, five-day test cricket. Phil, you can bowl 30 a day. Or do you want to bowl four? I think I'll bowl four.

40:04Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Right, Huss, you've been brilliant. Let's finish with a couple of community questions. This is a good one. Which bowler challenged you the most throughout your international career? There's two. One was murally. Starts with the eyes. Big eyes running in. And then the ball comes out of his hand. You're not sure which way it's going. You can hear the revs as it comes down. It's like... As it comes down. And then there's normally about three or four chirpy schilling. Chirping away around the bat. But the other one was Dale Steyn. And again, it started with our eyes as well.

40:40I remember that we played this game. It's the only time I've ever lost it on a cricket field. We played this game at Durban, and there was a bit of a ridge on the pitch. And Mitch Johnson was bowling like the wind for us. He'd broken Graham Smith's hand. He hit Jarg's callus in the jaw and sent him off to hospital. And we were dominating the game. I think Phil Hughes got 100. Simon Kadic got 100. And Dale, it was getting towards the end of the day, and I was in. And I was battling. I wasn't playing very well at this time. I was hanging in there. And Dale Stane just yelled out to the captain. He goes, skip that, give me the ball.

41:08I don't want to get him out. I just want to kill him. And I sort of thought, oh, this is going to be fun. And sure enough, sure enough, he just came in and bowled. Bouncer after bouncer after bouncer. And I'm ducking and weeding. It's hit me on the grill. It's hit me on the shoulder, under the armpits. And I could actually just feel the blood coming up my legs. And I thought, oh, no, I'm gone here. Sure enough, another bouncer comes past. And he comes down and says, and I just said, fuck you, Dale Stane. He said, what did you say? I said, fuck you, Dale Stane, because you're shitting yourself.

41:38And he said, fuck it, I'm shitting myself. And he had a laugh. And then the umpire sort of gave him a bit of a mouthful. He said, you can't be sledging the batsman. But it was me that, oh, I just lost it, completely lost it. But I managed to survive that night. And I got back into the dressing room and I felt terrible. I felt so embarrassed. I was batting terribly. I just let myself down on the field. I just had my hands in my head like this. And I just remember thinking, you're playing like a fifth grader. You know, like you're hopeless. And then with that, Andrew McDonald, he came and sat next to me.

42:06Brad Haddon came and sat the other side, and they put their arms around and said, thank you, Gordhouse, thank you for getting through that. We didn't want to come out and play Steyl's Day, you know, so it made me feel a little bit better. Great bowler, great bowler. He certainly gave me a few mental scars. Next, favourite place to play cricket, favourite ground? I love the Adelaide Oval and the SCG. They were two of my favourites, but you can't go past Lords, can you? I just love Lords. I'll tell you a funny story. My very first time I got to go to Lourdes, I played my first year of county cricket for North Ants.

42:39And you know the end of season dinner, the PCA dinner? So we didn't get to play at Lourdes that year, but they said, look, you can drive your car down, park it at Lourdes, and then catch a taxi over to the Royal Albert Hall where they had the dinner or the event or whatever it was. So sure enough, parked the car there, had my wife with me, and we went off to the dinner. And I came back probably a little bit late, and I probably had a couple of glasses of vino. and I said to my wife I said I never know you might not get the chance to come out and play at Lord so I better take this opportunity it's about one or two in the morning so I jumped the fence and I'm like walking out like I'm opening the batting for Australia you know walking out there playing a bit of shot at two in the morning and I didn't know but they've got all these laser security things so these security guards come running from all directions tackled me to the ground and I'm like no no no I was at the PCA dinner and I played for Northampton Well, you're not coming to Lourdes ever again.

43:32You have your dicky mind. Yeah, my suit on. Wristled to the ground. Wristled to the ground. They kicked me up and said, you're never invited back to Lourdes ever again. I said, I'll be back. Don't you worry about that. I'll be paying for Australia. Where is your missus at this time? She was just waiting in the car. So I come, I've got bloody mud marks all over me, suit. And she says, what the heck's happened? I said, you won't believe what's happening there. So I didn't score many on my first trip to Lourdes. That's unbelievable. Unbelievable. Yeah, they have got all the lasers there. Oh, so they should have.

44:01Yeah, absolutely. Can't just walk onto Laudan 2 AS. Right, last one. It's a tough one. Steve Smith or Joe Root? Oh, hello. What else? Who would you have? Made to go out for dinner with? Look, it says community questions. Number seven, Steve Smith or Joe Root? I love them both. I haven't had enough time with Joe Root. I mean, I've got to go Steve Smith, of course.

44:26But I love Joe Root too. I'd actually really like to see Joe Root score 100 in Australia. I mean, in my view, he's one of the greatest, and he might even become the greatest if he passes Sachin. But I'd like to see him be able to say he's dominated all around the world as well. It's the one place. And he's still scored runs here, and he still looked good. But I just think for his own legacy and his own, I guess, career, it'd be nice for him to score a couple of big hundreds here and help. Do you think he will? A couple of big hundreds in England win, that would be great. No, I didn't say that.

44:59I'd like... I think he will. I think he'll score 100. I think he will. Huss, brilliant. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks very much. Go and get in your ten at the WACA. Yeah, I will do, yeah. I hope he's not too hot. Could be sweaty in there. Could be flies everywhere. He's lovely. Brilliant. Cheers, Huss. Thanks, mate. No worries. Too easy. Too easy.

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