Piers Morgan: Ronaldo, Donald Trump & Sir Alastair Cook Feud | Stick to Cricket EP 16

0:00Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. Oh, it's looking in fine. It's looking in fine form, isn't it? Your home ground film. 20 years, man. Boy, I played here, mate. What are you doing to one of your stands down the bottom? I'm not sure. The revamp is two years. Oh, Piers! Piers! Hiya! Nice to see you. Nice to see you. Hello. Thanks to my great pal. Oh, hey. You OK? You two OK? Good to see you. I've really come to see him. Really? Do you want to swap or we...? No, you're all right. OK. Bang on. This is the bonding session.

0:39Yeah, yeah. It's the one we should have all had together in 2013-14. Should have all come together around a table like this, eating some croissants. Put it all behind us. Oh, well. It's a while ago, isn't it? You're back together now, though, aren't you? Huh? You two are back together now. We never actually... We don't actually know each other, do we? I don't think we've ever met. No, I don't think we have. Genuinely. Is this the first time? I don't think we have. I don't think we've ever met. I do remember, though, when I... This is years ago. I was kind of, like, nominated for Sports Personality when I got to the top 20 or something.

1:13For what? For what? Sports Personality. Oh, what? And actually, you did a piece for me, like, quite a nice piece, after 10-11. Anyway, our friendship after turn 13 wasn't quite the same. Well, I got no gratitude for helping you out on that. Well, did you win? No, exactly. OK, 10. No, 10. Well, the problem was the personality bit.

1:37Welcome to Stick to Cricket, brought to you by Betfair. And today's show, we're here at Lourdes, the home of cricket. You could argue the greatest cricket ground in the world. Enjoy the show.

1:51I was very against you personally, without knowing you. And when I look back at some of the things I tweeted about you, I did go over the top. So I will take this opportunity. Is this the first time you've ever apologised? I'm sorry for the 38th weasel race. Ronaldo or our late, great Shane Moore? Cricket is my first and biggest luck. He watches this, does Christian. He will, he will. Donald was in town. He said, You're arrogant, you're possibly evil, I don't know, he said. But you beat the hell out of everybody. Tuffer stands to attention and says, Madam, I am Philip Tufnell, Middlesex and England.

2:25But he said, well, I'm very pleased for you, but now go back downstairs. I don't think I should... I never thought I'd do it. I should agree with Piers on this one. Oh, there you go, Cookie! You won't win many friends playing like this, Mr Jardine. To which Jardine turned to me and said, I haven't come here to make friends, I've come here to win the Ashes. Bring that out!

2:51Can I just read a couple of your tweets from back? Let's get the elephant out of the room, right? So you tweeted, farewell, Alistair Cook. I presume this is when you read it. Oh, that's nice. That's a nice way to speak. Exactly. A bit more generous-spirited. But as you carry on, you put, I'll be honest, I can't forgive him for wrecking KP's England crew. That was shocking, that. Yeah. And then you put, He bored me to tears as a batsman, has barely scored an important test run for years, and it's weird that he never sweats. That is weird. That is weird. But he gave his all for England and played many invaluable innings.

3:27Well, there you go. Sorry, but given the history... Balance. I thought that was a pretty balanced and generous tribute. Oh, I've got his balance there. I mean, you agree, because you said you'd watch me behind curtains. I said if you were playing cricket outside our house, I'd shut the curtains. So I'm amongst friends here, aren't I? Cookie, you're my hero. I would actually, I mean, just to be serious, I used to be really pleased when you were batting, because it meant we got more time in the birthday coat tank. Yeah! That's a fact, Pizz. I know you like the Baz Ballers. I've said recently, this Baz Ball team need a cook or a boycott.

4:02I don't disagree. No. If we could have a cook and a boycott just to go blot, blot, blot, to allow the firecrackers to crack. There's no glue, I agree. Yeah. I actually agree with that. Yeah. I mean, this is great to have him there where Geoffrey was. Geoffrey was there. I watched it. He was great. I loved it. He was in great form. Also, he was immaculately attired. Absolutely. Where's your time? Old school. I felt bad, actually, but I'm a YouTuber now. No, he was great, Joe. I've got to know him over the years. What a fascinating man he is in so many ways, isn't he? Yeah. I just thought it was an enthralling conversation, yeah.

4:36Great comment. He's sharp. So sharp. He knows his cricket. Well, he knows his football. He would have said to him. Hey, what about your team? They're a bit defensive, aren't they? Look, don't you worry about us. No. It's a slow-moving express train. Once Jokeres gets fed the ball You watch I've seen enough of him already I know You're making the same mistakes No, no, no You go to Anfield In your door No, no It's a mental attitude Arteta has a problem You didn't have a go at Anfield No, I agree He needs to take the handbrake off Once he does that I'm sure he will Once he does that And we feed Jokeres You watch Three best wingers in the Premier League He's a good one Maduaki Eze And Saka They've got them all So September This show might come out in October What month do you think it'll be when you start hashtagging Arteta out?

5:24We've had a very tough spot. No, no. Because you were a white finger out, weren't you? I actually wasn't Arteta out for a while. LAUGHTER Then I had to write a piece in the headline, Dear Mikel, I'm so sorry. No, it's a big season for Arteta. I mean, he's spent a fortune. We've got some great players. I love all the signings are great, actually. But he's got to click and he's got to be more aggressive. You go to someone like Anfield, you play City, They were both there for the taking and we were too defensive. And from the line-up, too defensive. Got to take the handbrake off, Mikel. You've got attacking flair.

5:58Unleash the dogs. Are Arsenal playing a little bit like Sir Alistair Cook? A little bit. A little bit. A little within themselves. No, you just mix his lines. I suppose you're lying. To be fair, that's very unfair. That is very unfair on the Arsenal team because they have at least four shots. LAUGHTER This day against City. I'm not sure, I didn't actually. Dave, have you got any gifts? No, it's my little boy's birthday today. Little Jack's birthday. I've got a mention of his birthday. And he's actually a gunner. Is he? Why is he a gunner? Why isn't he a Luton? We are, but he came home... What do you mean, we are?

6:36The family are. I am, the kids are. And then he came home one day, very proudly, in an Arsenal shirt three months ago. Literally, like, and he has not taken it off. Was that an awkward conversation to be had? Well, I just hate to him. You've won two books. When was the last trophy Arsenal won? The FA Cup in his first season. That was what, four or five years? United. I don't care about the FA Cup. United have won more trophies than Arsenal in the last few years. Mate, United are an absolute basket case. Even you know that. So if I were you, I'd just pipe down about football. Well, Geoffrey gave Ruben some.

7:12Geoffrey gave Ruben Amory a very strong team. Spine. All about the spine. Yeah, spine. Get some better players. They're not good enough. Put your glasses on. Oh, he's got gifts for Piers. We have allotment gifts. Oh, really? This is from the allotment. I love that. Bumble allotment. Seriously? You're a very special guest that usually they only get an apple. Is that corn you've got there? I brought you some quince. Some hot quince. I love a bit of quince. Quite refined stuff. Yeah, have a couple of quins. Thank you. Take it back to... Is that corn you've got there? And this is sweet corn. I do love sweet corn.

7:49Straight out of the allotment. I love sweet corn. Yeah, there you are. Aw! Thank you very much. Yeah, yeah. The bumble sweet corn. Yes. Love it. Love it. Have you ever been given...? I don't get given any gifts by anybody. Have another sweet corn. Oh, I love that. There you go. Love that. Thank you. How do you grow sweet corn in Manchester? He lives in York. I live in Manchester. Oh, don't you ever go to York then? York? That's not lying from Peter Sellers does your dog bed

8:21Hey York sir, it's it's the area to live I was reading about York the other day He's still the place in the UK to buy property. Do they still have hand-pumped Tetley's? No, you don't see much Tetley's up there. Tetley's still going. Tetley's, I think it's brooding, I might be wrong, I think it's brooding Burton. I once went to watch To Jeffrey, playing for Yorkshire with my village mates, who were on a holiday. And the bet... What, in Yorkshire? In Yorkshire. And the bet was, we had our captain, who was from Yorkshire. And the bet was, you had to drink 12 pints of hand-pump Tetley. And the slowest drinker, who was the last to finish, had to run on the pitch at the end of play, pre-mobile phones and do a Mooney on the square.

9:06And that was me. So I ran out, and I think I passed to Geoffrey, actually. He said, where are you going? Get off the square. I ran to the middle and did the Mooney and came back as all the lads were cheering on the boundary. They were the days, all mobile phones. Absolutely. When Tetley's was a good brew, that was a way. They sponsored Yorkshire and England in the 90s. And Pumpte Tetley's was a good brew. They did, yeah. On the shirt, right? Tetley's. Yeah, Tetley's, we used to go to the routine rooms. And it was like towers of free Tetley's in the team. There's only one better bitter, which I'm not sure if you've road tested, but Harvey's.

9:40Yeah, Sussex. Sussex, best beer. That's my local brewery. Yeah, absolutely. Delicious pint. Yeah. But do you get to York at all? I live in York. We had this great guy called Peter Tummins, who was actually a publisher of cricket books. And it was actually a really nice story because he was captain of the Newark village team for many, many years. And we all loved this guy. and then eventually went back to live in York and he had always wanted to be a member of the MCC. This was his lifetime dream. Why? And he'd become like, what do they call it, an associate member or something, whatever it is, sort of the final stage.

10:17And he knew he was dying. And one of his kids said to me, he's got one wish, it's just to get MCC membership. And funny enough, a friend of mine is on the committee here and they put an appeal in, they studied it, and they do it very occasionally, and they fast-tracked him, and he found out the day before he died that he'd become an MCC member. And it was the last sort of, really, almost one of his last waking moments was his daughter remembered him just saying, I'm in, I'm in, and I thought that was such a lovely thing. He literally tried for nearly 30 years. Are you an MCC member? No. No? Sir Alistair?

10:56Yeah. Biers? God, no. No? Rebel without a cause. So you would? No, not after a while. You'd not accept one? No, I still have a protest going even longer than the one against you, actually. But the protest was... No, the way that Ian Botham got treated in 1981, that was it for me. No thanks. Oh, they booed him. It was even worse than booing. He was the England captain, obviously under the cosh, but one of the great servants to the game we've ever had. And they all just turned their backs on him and sort of carried on, just ignored him. I remember that. And Beefy was so hurt by it. So I've always gone in the box Nainish, our mutual friend Nainish, and we always felt like we were the rebels right down here, cocking a snook at the snooty members who gave Beefy the old cold shoulder.

11:43To be fair, it was 81. They're probably all gone by now. Well, how long ago? Yeah, that's 44 years ago. I always wondered. Is Beef a member? Huh? I don't think he is. No, I can't imagine. I don't think he... Are you a member, Phil? No, no, no, no. You've played here for all your life. I've played here all my life. Oh, they've never given you a membership? No. You must have. That's disgrace. That is ridiculous. How many wickets did you get here? Thousands. Well, you got over a thousand first-year wickets. Yeah, yeah. Hours I've spent running around on that turf, probably I should be a member. But it's time you spent sleeping in the dressing room.

12:17Would you like to be a member? I don't know really. What does it do for you? I get into the ground anyway. I can come in anyway. I don't actually want to watch in that pavilion. I've never, ever hankered to do that. I'd much rather be with my village mates up in the Edgeridge or something or in Beefy's Box or whatever. I've never wanted to be in there. Kieran, get in here. Have you got your clip? I've got this clip of Saturday. So, Saturday was the... Was it the Village Cup final? No, it was the ECB National Cup final. The Champions League final. Let me just get it up. Give me a minute. Your club?

12:51My local club, yeah. Are you playing? Oh, no, I'm not good enough to get in there. Is it your local team? Right, this is what cricket's all about.

13:01Brilliant! There he is. Did they win? Yeah. This is them just getting a wicket. Wait a minute. That's brilliant. Opening back to that. Ormy army. Opening back, ormy army. Is that the village... Orms... Is that the village one? Orms... No, no, the ECB club one. I used to play in the village one. I knew it. Who were you playing? That was a fun moment. We used to play in the village knockout. I got 100 for Pearson. He played one of the best knocks. I was also caught behind on about 12. Penzance. They were playing Penzance. Yes. And I was down in Sidmouth this last week and I was supposed to go on Saturday to Sidmouth.

13:41I get the call on Friday from Sky, come and do T20 Blast Day. Great to see you back. It was brilliant. I said, yeah, I'll come. We moved the holiday a bit. And I went down and did it. Friday they rung up Friday do you want to come in? We should mention that I don't you'd have had many messages But the amount of people that messaged me saying Bumble's back on Sky It was great. Sorry just elephant in the room. He should never have left Sky. Well, no, right? Literally, it was ridiculous. I'm happy to say that because I'm unsensitive as you know But it was ridiculous and I think you were a victim of a very weird time in this country's existence where people were just getting cancelled left, right and centre for bullshit and you were one of those victims.

14:22So I'm thrilled you were back and if the guy are watching this, he should get you back on the airwaves. I don't think I ever thought I'd do it. I actually agree with Piers on this one. Oh, there we go. You two are really back. The mascot, who won it? Who won it? Lanky. He got disqualified, the winner, because he set off early. and was that your you made that call or no no no no yeah great pitch by the way great great people singing when I saw you singing with the crowd yeah you got them going a bit they said keep a low profile crossing the crowd another so is your first line my first line as I was saying brilliant yeah brilliant I just bought some of the Lord's turf they're selling a load of it what now yes they're selling a load of the turkeys are relaying the other option is and you could buy I think it's 50 quid a slab and I'm gonna just put it in my garden and have a little Lord's shrine Yeah.

15:37Yeah. How big is it? Could you buy a lot? I think it's about that big. They're literally selling blocks of the Lord's turf. A sod? Yeah, I bought two sods. I mean, there's four here I could have gone for. Is that what it's called? The sod? I think so, yeah. How do you know that? It is a sod. How do you know that? I know, my God. One show. Yeah, the one show. One show. Do you know which bit of turf it is, though? No, there's a... Can you ask for a run-up bit? Well, they've obviously already relayed it, I think, because you can pick it up from Monday. So I ordered two slams. They can't relate it because they're still playing.

16:09I'm not playing here this week. There's a game here this week. Rolling the pick. Well maybe they're doing it now then. You can pick it up on Monday, your turf. Yeah, after this evening. Are you going to commemorate the turf in the garden? Do you know what? I've actually... Which of your many houses, gardens are you going to commemorate? No, no, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I bought two. One for me but also one, you remember, my mate from my village, Miles, who very sadly got a very bad brain cancer and it killed him very quickly, but he was an absolute cricket nut. And we used to come to Lourdes.

16:38The last time I came with him, we worked out we'd been to Lourdes together 100 times, just over 100 times. And this was the last time we were going to be. And when I heard they were selling the turf, I thought it would be really nice to just give his widow, who's a great friend of mine too, but to give her a bit of a turf for their garden because he'd have loved that. But it was a really, it was a very, he was a real lords, he loved lords, loved cricket, loved all you guys. He would have been watching this telling me to stop talking. You lot to do the talking. Yeah, great guy. I've got a bench from that Warner store, one of the benches.

17:12Do you remember the old bench? Yes, yes. The old wooden slats. All done up. I can beat that. Go on. I've got the old... You know when the balcony got extended? Yes. For the England dressing room balcony. Oh, you've got the bench they sat on? I was here when they suddenly started the development and I went on the balcony. They were about to knock it. And there was this old bench. Did you nick it? I didn't nick it. No, I asked. I said, what? And they just said, take it. Really? That's brilliant. What, the bench that we all used to sit? Yeah, and I actually gave it to... So I used to... So when I was England captain and played from 2000 here, the balcony next door, there was a guy that used to sit on the balcony called David Jacobs.

17:50He used to work for Dunlop, worked with Greg Norman for many, many years. And he became a great mate. And when I was England captain, people would say, oh, did you get advice from X? I actually got more advice from business leaders about trying to lead people and get to know the person rather than the player, all that kind of stuff. My dad gave me that kind of message. But David was fantastic. And I actually gifted it to David. Really? David, yeah. Oh, I love it. Down in Devon, yeah. You've got the one from where? You probably nicked yours, did you? I actually got given it. No. One of the farmers, up with Tommy Banks, is one of the farmers, his next door farmer, Geoff Thornton, were bringing some meat down in a big wagon to Smithfield Market.

18:30and he said, on your way back, call in and pick eight benches. He picked eight up. Eight of them? Yeah, yeah, give me one. Oh, I could have bought me little bit that I used to stand and fine leg. I could have got me little fine leg bit that I stood on there for all those hours. What were your best performance here? What was your best performance, cricket-wise, not batting? Oh, crikey. Well, I got me 67 knot out, yeah? Did you really? Yeah, yeah, 67 knot out. Yeah, who were you? 67 knot out. Who are you playing?

19:03Yeah, all in fours Really? 67 all in fours Something about this story has been quite ringing true What year? Oh, God knows, Bob, I don't know Oh, come on, roundabout So who's the attack? Tom Moody, Australia, international Richard Ilyworth, England international Phil Newport Phil Newport Yeah, yeah, yeah England I'm pit Jed lamp it yet. Stuart Stuart and and left armor good bowler Shuri are we have to check yes, you're a left arm we played under 19s with me absolutely we have to we have to check and at one stage because you know I used to as you say my self a bit of room used to give myself a bit of room used to clear the front leg and back leg and at one stage it was up that end they had a 9-0 field yes all on the offside Yeah, because they just couldn't bolt to be I just kept smashing it everywhere and I nipped inside the line and Licked it off the hip.

20:04No all nine fellas ran after the ball That's where I got me three you must have had a six or seven for though is yeah, all right I think you have an eight for Not here. No, I don't think he had eight for I've had a couple of eight first, but not here I've had a couple of a couple of 10 for Zee can't remember to be honest with

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21:55Why cricket? Well, I grew up in a village where the cricket was a big part of the village. 1 ,500 people, three pubs and a restaurant and a cricket pitch. What more do you want? Lovely. So I started playing with the village when I was about, I don't know, 12, 13. But I was actually a very good player at prep school. So I went to a prep school, then a comprehensive. and I actually got into the England prep schools squad. Never actually played. No, I was a fast bowler. Oh! I was a fast bowler. I was quick, mate. When I was 12, I was rapid. Rapid. I was rapid and my hero was Dennis Lilley. I admire it.

22:30So when I was 12 years old, I got picked in the England prep schools squad. Never got a game, but that was the pinnacle of my sporting achievement. But I remember my first test. I was thinking today when I came in. 1975, day one, Lord's Test. I mean, you couldn't get better than this. Lillian Thompson. bowling England. I think Barry Wood was one of the overs. Yes, he was. John Edgridge was another one. David Steele came in. Greggy captain. Tony Gregg was captain. So Steele got... We had a couple of quick wickets to Lillie. He took four or five day one. Thompson was out of control. Yeah. Bowling no ball after no ball.

23:06And then occasionally he would... I think he got Steele with a Yorker. Tommy Spencer on. Yorked him and it was electric. But Gregg started signalling the boundaries off Lillie. Greg got 96, still got 50 and 40-odd in the second knock. He still looked like an old bank manager. Do you remember? Grey hair, glasses coming in. Apparently all the officers were like, who the fuck is that? Just a cap on. But it was great. That's exactly it. It was. Who the fuck is that? And it was... He used to hook them, didn't he? Yeah, he did. It was a really good plan and I just fell in love with it. And the weird thing, probably when I look back when I was young about cricket, I used to write to a lot of cricketers and get their autographs.

23:45In those days, autographs were a big thing. I used to be one of those guys you'd find around the back with my book full of pictures. And I used to queue up for Bumble. Seriously. And you were always a good signer. Me and my brother, my army brother, who became a colonel in the British Army, we judge everybody to this day on whether they were good signers or bad signers. Geoffrey? Geoffrey was either brilliant and would literally chat to you for an hour or he'd totally ignore you. There was no middle. It depended on how many runs he got. So if you've got naught, we just knew not to go near him.

24:16But I remember, so I used to write to loads of people and I started getting obsessed with Don Bradman because of his statistics. So I started writing to Don Bradman. And he used to write back. I can remember his address, number two, Holden Road, Adelaide, South Australia. And I used to write to him as a fan, right? And he used to write back these letters. I've got loads of letters at home. And then about 13, 14, I became secretary of my cricket club. At 14? At 14. I was a very, you'll be unsurprised to hear, a very precocious child. And I was just annoyed I wasn't president. But I was secondary.

24:47And we had our centenary year. And my job was tasked with finding somebody to write the foreword. Now, get this. To write the foreword to the brochure we were producing for 100 years. And the only thing I could think of was that Sheffield Park... You might remember this bubble. Sheffield Park was the nearest place to Newark, my village. And Sheffield Park used to host the Australians on their first game of every tour. Right. Including when Bradman was the captain. and Lord Sheffield, who owned Sheffield Park, then went to Australia and formed a Sheffield Shield. So there was a connection. So I said to Bradman, look, given the connection, because we're the nearest still-playing club to Sheffield Park, would you possibly write a forward?

25:28So I didn't hear anything. And then about a month later, this massive parcel arrives at my house, and in it is a thousand-word typed forward by Don Bradman, who actually found out that two of the Langridge brothers, Jim and John Langridge, came from Newark, my village, our most famous cricketers, present company accepted. And he'd written a thousand words forward and he enclosed loads of pictures of himself playing at Sheffield Park and then with Lord Sheffield in Australia at the Sheffield Shield. And it was just quite amazing. So it then became this, it was the first journalism coup because he got into the national press that Don Bradman had written this incredible forward.

26:04But when I think about it, imagine that he did that. The time, just to take the time. And I've heard a lot of stories from journalists who didn't get on with Brady, didn't really trust the media or like them, and he could be quite prickly. And I used to say to all of them, my experience was he was absolutely incredible. He carried on writing to me till he died. I've got about 30 letters. I've got them all at home. So I'm a hand-written... He was very particular. So if I wrote to him as a fan, Piers, you know, his fan, he would hand-write, Dear Piers, Yours Don. And then if it was me as the secretary of the cricket club, typed, Dear Mr Morgan, Yours Cicely, Sir Donald Bradman.

26:40I found one the other day, there was a letter from him saying, Dear Piers, thank you very much indeed for your invitation, for me to come and stay at your home for the centenary test match. But unfortunately, I won't be making the journey due to my vast age. And my mother read it and went, what did you do? LAUGHTER I'd invited Don Bradman to come and stay at our house for a couple of weeks. But that was, you know, I guess... We used to have a say... My mother gave me this postcard, and I've still got it on my desk, and it just says, It's a hippopotamus flying with a flock of seagulls. And it just has a headline, ambition knows no bounds.

27:12So I used to just think, you know what? What's the worst that can happen? Just ask, you know. And I do say to people now, I say to my kids, I say to friends. You can only say no. Just ask. If you've got a dream, you want something to happen, well, just ask the question. Because most people don't. Are your lads into cricket? They love it. They love it. We all went to, well. All gooners as well, aren't they? As Alistair knows, we came out for our dream trip, was the Ashes in 2013. where they nearly watched me die at the hands of Brett Lee. Oh, well, get on to that. The older two found it funny. The youngest one actually thought I was going to die and was quite shell-shocked.

27:44You, I understand, were cheering on Brett Lee in the dressing room. It was live on TV and I won't mind... Actually, because we haven't really... Shall we just have a look at that? This is it. I thought you played it quite well. This was kind of before everything, wasn't it? The stance is pretty good, Pearce. Yeah. No, no. I also had a massive chest guard like a Michelin man. Yeah, you did. Look, you drew the crowds. Yeah, Warnie there, look. Let's see. Yeah, so the first one hit my wrist and I thought he'd broken my wrist. But you've gone down to it. That's the fourth ball where he hit the broken rib.

28:21So the first one hit my wrist, I thought he'd literally broken my wrist. And the second one I'd die for cover, literally. The third one breaks my... clean fractures my rib. and then the fourth one, he hit the broken rib and we had these headsets. He came running down and he went, Oh, mate, did you hear that one crack? Was that you, Skipper? That was me, yeah, Channel 9, yeah. Warnie, Martin, Nicholas, everyone was down. So he got you proper. Oh, he properly tried to kill me, yeah. Oh, Jesus. That was the second one. And he was bowling massive no-balls. Yeah, they were huge no-balls. If he'd bowled from the correct distance, I'd have spanked him.

28:57Absolutely. But the first ball we saw... I was giving him the old Rocky Balboa, come on then, so he did just get faster and faster. It was like being in an abattoir, like 10 ,000 people. Yeah, there was a good crowd. And it was live on Sky and live on Channel 9. We had a meeting at Sky as to whether we would cover it. Really? Yeah, definitely. And there's a camp saying, look, he's going to get seriously hurt. Why do we want to cover this? And last minute they said, we'll cover it. And was that decision taken because they decided the British public would want to see me seriously? But what was it like for, like, obviously not the best cricketer ever, like facing something at 95 in terms of like...

29:32It was really interesting because I'd played a lot of club cricket. I hadn't played for about five years club cricket then. I'd been in America, so I hadn't really been playing. But what was interesting to me, when I was playing like East Sussex League Division I, so one below County League, you would get the old bowler who could be pretty rapid. Like, he could be mid-80s, right? Give you a proper old going over. They'd come down from the County League, maybe we're even next County. And I just remember facing them and then I remember this. and I just, I didn't see any of them. I literally did not see the ball.

30:02I'll feel you, apparently. It was a white ball with a grey background and the whole thing, which, I mean, I just couldn't see it. But the one thing, I remember talking to someone, I think maybe KP said to me, look, he said to me the night before, don't do this. He said, Bing is a great bloke, but with a ball in his hand, he's a psychopath. Yeah, yeah. He said he will try and get you. And I just didn't want a throat ball. The only thing I thought could really hurt me was a throat ball. So I thought, I'm not going to get in line because that's the most dangerous place probably for me to find myself.

30:30So that's why I was just... So Viv Richards, I'd been with him the night before, and he goes, what are you going to do, mate? Take it to him, mate. Get down the track. You see, on the first ball, I start giving Brett Lee the charge. And Brett said afterwards, oh, mate, he said, it was like a shark when he sees blood moving in the water. I just had to spear you. But no, it was, honestly, it was terrifying. And I realised then the massive gulf between facing someone in their low 80s, which was the fastest I've ever faced. And actually, also, I'd say, facing... That was when Warnie said, give him something to hear, and he yawked me.

31:03And then the sixth ball, he hit me again, just for one more old time's sake. When I turned up at the clinic the next day, I went to get patched up, because I knew I was in trouble. I had bruises everywhere. It was leading the news in Australia. It was the lead story on the news. Do you remember the night? Yes, we were partying. Yes. Me, you, Ward Gower. You were there. At Warnie's house. With his mum and dad, Keith and... I forgot his mum's name. I remember it all very well. And Gingle was there. Yes. James Packard. Everyone was there. They were all there, lovely. In Brighton, Melbourne, where he lived.

31:36It was brilliant, lovely. I said, how do you feel? He said, I can't move. He'd smash you, you'd bust your wrists, didn't he? Yeah, and I remember going to the clinic the next day and I walked in, there were about two doctors and three nurses and they all started clapping. Because it was the lead story on the news. It was. But they weren't going to write about Ark Creek. No, no. They said, ah, Mr Morgan, we'd be waiting for you. But I'll tell you what I do remember. Because this had all come about. Because as you know, I just said to KP and whoever else I knew in the team, I said, just don't lose before we get there.

32:05It's a dream trip. And we'd won here. Do you remember that summer? It was back-to-back ashes. We'd won here. No one thought for a moment we were going to get flatlined out there. And so I planned the dream trip. Me and my three sons and my younger brother were on a dream trip. All expense, like no expense spared, right? and you lost 3-0 two days before we arrived. So I went on Twitter giving it the usual big one, saying, you know, Mitchell, Johnson, Terrence, show some balls, stand up for yourself, all this kind of thing. And eventually Brett Lee went, you think you could do any better, mate? Yeah, that's it.

32:37On Twitter, I went, absolutely I do. He said, so you'd face six balls for me, would you if I get a net at Melbourne? Absolutely. And I'm like, thank God he's never going to do this. And then the next thing I'm in there. But it was a fascinating experience and I remember going back into the stand. It was a world record crowd that game at the MCG. 93 ,000. Was that day one? I think day two was the world record, actually. I think. I can't remember. But it was one day they broke the record. I went back in and all the English were like, you wanker, embarrassing yourself, blah, blah, blah. All the Aussies stood up.

33:09Good on you. Good on you. At last, a bloody pond with some guts around here. So, Sir Alistair, I didn't even get a lot of the MBE for that. Now you know what it's like to face that pace, would you do it again? No. I don't think anyone would be allowed to do it again. Because if you remember, very sadly, Phil Hughes got killed. Absolutely. He died about within a year. Within a year. So I don't think anyone will ever do it again. I just think it was an amazing experience to understand just... What I learned was you guys, when you face bowling like Brett... I mean, Brett Lee, what? One of the three fastest ever, potentially?

33:43And he was still opening the bowling in the big bat, so he was still pretty quick. and off that distance, and a warning reckoned it was, given where he was bowling from, I was facing pretty well Pete Brett Lee speed. And it was just, I didn't have time to react. And so it made me realise, you guys, when you face that kind of bowling, a lot of it is just you get so finely tuned to play with just instant, intuitive reaction. You don't really have time to think about it. It pays the difference. Actually, when you're out in the middle, number one, they're off 22 yards. Yeah. And when you've got a net around you, Yeah, it's awful.

34:17Yeah, you're in a confined, confined space. It's awful, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it's way worse. That's way worse than... Yeah. But just to confirm, did you actually cheer him on? I was watching on TV, but we hadn't really fallen out at that stage. No, I haven't. Not that we ever did fall out. But it was... We've never met, just to be clear. Yeah, we have never met. Will you be meeting again? I don't know. Why not? 15 years' time. LAUGHTER We did nearly meet. I may as well tell the story, because it is funny because we found ourselves in the, I was in the president's box and you were in the chairman's door.

34:51Someone else told me this. And Ashley Giles was still in the England camp then and I knew Ashley well and he said, he came around and said hello. I said, maybe there's a time, you know, we were sitting, we had a rope between us and we were sitting there for hours, right, without even exchanging a hello. And I'll come to my culpability of why things had got so thin because I went over the top and I'm prepared to concede that. But he said he went up to you. He had a bottle of champagne and a couple of glasses. He said, Cookie, why don't you just go round and make it up with Piers? You know, it's time.

35:21It's been a lot of time. And he went, I'd rather smash this fucking glass over his head. Go on, chef! I thought it was one of the best lines I'd ever heard you say. Suddenly you got a lot more interested. Do you think... Is that true? Sir Alice, do you think you got knighted for that line? Sir Alice. Did I say that? I would never have said it tough. It's me and you have... Yeah, so I'm going to have to. Anyway, I thought it was very funny, for what it was. And honestly, if I'd been you, because I kept calling you a weasel for about six months, then fair enough. That's to do with KP. Well, we fell out without ever meeting because...

35:59And I still feel this. I felt that whole thing was just really badly handled. And I loved watching Kevin Peterson bat. He'd been, to me, the greatest post-war batsman we'd produced. Certainly the most entertaining. He was fit as a fiddle. He'd been the top scorer in that series, and yet he became the sacrificial lamb who never played for England again. And it reminded me a little bit of Harold Larwood. Have you read that brilliant book by Duncan Hamilton about Larwood? You know, Larwood, in different circumstances, but he neutralised Bradman in the Bodylines series, never played for England again because the establishment kind of rallied...

36:33Rally Allen. Yeah, rallied against him and said, you've got to apologise. And Larwood's mother said, if you apologise to the Australians, I'll never speak to you again, Harold. and he ended up going to Australia. Living there. Living there where they loved him. Yeah. So I was very matey with Kevin and he'd been a really good mate to me and he was very hurt by it all, much more than I think people realised and I think that it was... I could see, looking back on it, I've got to know a lot of the people in that world, even that team and around it and I just think it was like a great team that suddenly hit the buffers and everyone was falling out, a lot of stuff going on, a lot of egos, a lot of things going on.

37:12And the real victim, I think, was the England cricket fan who would have loved another five years out of Kevin Peterson. And I just felt the fact he never played again after 33 still, to me, feels like that should have been better handled. But I was, I have to admit, I was very full-on against you, personally, without knowing you. And when I look back at some of the things I tweeted about you, I know you're not on social media, but I did go over the top, so I will take this opportunity. Is this the first time you've ever apologised? I'm sorry for the 38th weasel. It's emotional. That is emotional.

37:53But, I mean, looking back... Well, it'll be. What do you think, looking back? Well, looking back, it was... Obviously, I was part of the decision that KP never played again. Do I regret it? You make the decision because you think it's the right thing for the England cricket team at that time. And you think for what's gone on leading up to it, well, I went with Strauss and all that stuff. Obviously, as an England captain, you are part of it. You're not overall responsible, obviously. There's loads of things. I don't know whether we've got it right or wrong. What I do know, it was handled badly from both sides.

38:27But the world, we can't always live in, like, you know what I'm saying now? We can't live in the past anymore. Me and KP see each other all the time. Yeah, no, he said he's got no issues with anyone. And we have buried the hatchet. What was really sad about it, obviously, we never fell out personally. Do you know what I mean? At all? Ever fell out personally about it. We played together. We actually had a really good batting record together. Actually, opposites in terms of how we played. And actually suited me when I batted with KP. Brilliant because he walked out and obviously all the attention went to KP because of how destructive a player he was.

39:00He played some great innings and I could just get on my business and knock along. So looking back, obviously it was a... Personally, for me, it was a real tough six months as a captain when you felt... And this is... I don't want to dig at ECB or anything. I felt so exposed as the England captain. Because, you know, it wasn't just my decision. Who was coach at the time? Andy Flower? No, Andy Flower was until I was 13, but he left. He was then, so actually it was a proper clean break. Piers Moore... Piers Moore? That would have saved a lot of hardship. Only you had me. Only you'd done the right thing.

39:34Roll me in, you'd have been straight out, keep me back, off we go. Peter Moores, Dale, there's loads of good people around. Anyway, it happened. And it was just a sad way, because cricket was on the front, back pages, middle pages, for all the wrong reasons. Sports should never, ever be like that. It should be about... Anyway, it has happened. Can't do anything about it now, but there's no point. No, but I also felt with Kevin that he was way ahead of his time with the IPL and all that kind of stuff. and the cricket establishment here were very anti-him and that permeated into the rest of the team around him and stuff that there was a lot of resentment.

40:08I think he was getting all these millions in the IPL. I have to disagree. You don't think that's true? I have to disagree. I didn't see any of that resentment. I didn't see that. What I do understand, looking back now, how the world has moved with a franchise cricket... Well, the point I was going to make was I think now, obviously, everyone is encouraged to do it, but at the time he was treated a bit like a pariah. I remember the ECB chairman back in the day, Giles Clark, who was a part of the group that got into bed with Alan Stanford. His line was, the IPL, it's a flash in the pan. Right. I remember being around when he said that.

40:40A flash in the pan, the IPL. Look at it now. It's probably up there with the richest franchise leagues in the world across all the sports. I suppose at that time, it was a really hard balance because this franchise was coming in where there's Laird, but then there was also Playing for Your Country in May where those first test matches, it was very structured. I agree. First test match in that year. And we had situations where a couple of players, almost unfairly on certain players as well, you had to choose between millions of pounds. But that was the problem, isn't it? And now that isn't a problem.

41:13Now they schedule it so that you can do both. And that's what should have happened. If they'd had the awareness about how big the IPL potential was, they should have accommodated the best players here who were always going to be... But it's such a hard thing, because you've got teams which you're trying to build, say... And it's different now. No, no, I agree with you. It's totally different back there. It's all about... And when I grew up, when you grew up, it's all about just playing Red Bull cricket for England. So this thing comes in where it's taking people away from them. You say, well, we've got to build a team.

41:40You can't pick and choose when... No, no, I agree. You can't pick and choose when they bring it. So he was ahead of his time, absolutely. But obviously, I think I haven't spoken to him about it. I'm sure he would have said, well, I could have done that differently as well. It's a bit like the word you said, we should all sat around the table at the time and there might have been a way around. The most interesting conversation I had about it all was I played in... Do you remember Beefy had a 60th at Wormsley? Really great event. I smacked Glenn McGrath all over the place. Just putting it out there.

42:09And Tripp Hanger then got him out first ball for naught. So you can ask Glenn, he doesn't like to talk about it. I do. But I ended up in a dressing room with Andrew Strauss and Adam Hollyoak, who was one of the great captains and he ripped into Australia, it was a great debate about this whole thing and it just made me think I just think that in the end I think that it was, and I'll say this with great respect to you because I think as a batsman, opening batsman for England really very few people could compare with your record and I've got great respect for that and we've never met until today and you seem a very nice chap, I would personally argue and you can certainly throw this back at me but I don't think captaincy was your strong point and I don't I think those players with big egos like Kevin I talked to Mike Brearley about this right he had a lot of big egos in the team when he was leading it you know how you handle that when I ran a daily mirror newsroom with 400 people in it a lot of the best talent were really difficult people and how you handled them and got the best out of them often dictated how good the paper was right and I think with a sports team I'm gonna be curious what you think did you enjoy being England captain do you feel it was a natural thing for you would you looking back I rather not have that the hardest thing you'll ever do and the challenge of captaining is it's just you know you don't know what the challenge of captioning that day you know it's like every day was different we're not even on the field off the field everything I don't know because you talk I say I handled you know Brodie Jimmy's Ben Stokes coming up loads there's loads of like other egos than just, the ego's not the right word, actually, because strong personalities and the danger, we all know about strong personalities, if they're not aligned perfectly, it's a really hard thing and you spend a lot of time managing something which doesn't, like, you think, I'm spending all my time managing it.

44:08Unless the goods are amazing at the end, then, so looking back, obviously KP plays some unbelievable innings, the best in, even, Joe Root's England's best ever, I've seen and played, but KP could play in the innings of a higher standard than Ruti, but Ruti was up that level more times there. But at the end, whether his head was in it perfectly, he wasn't delivering the goods for the amount of effort you're spending doing. So, how do you get that balance right? Whenever I meet my captains, I always apologise to them. What? I do, I do. No, no, for what you just said there, really, I always apologise to them.

44:44You, of all the players that I play with, I always look back and think, I'd have loved to have captain you. Honestly, I would have explored captain you. You never had a problem with Stuart or Atherton, did you? No, never. No, not at all. All day long. The one that I got. When I was doing the England job, he was fine. But I got told before, don't go near him. Well, there you go. That's what used to annoy me. But Atherton said, whatever you do, get him in the team. Yeah, yeah. Every time. What he needed was someone like my grandmother, which brings me to my story about Phil Tufnell and my grandmother.

45:16Let me just finish for one thing. Before we go to grandma, because we know we're going to go off. The one thing about the captaincy is actually you are the best captain the last day you do it, but you just run out of time to do it. So all those... I did it for 50-odd games. And it's like people... You get handed it and you go, oh, you're meant to be the best captain from day one. Jesus, it's hard. You learn the craft of captaincy. And you learn all the way. So would one of my strengths I've never been since managing egos at the beginning of my career, no, because you have to learn how to do it.

45:47But maybe at the end, I would like to think I was better after four and a half, five years of doing it. That's fair enough. I think that's completely fair enough. It's a bit like punditry, isn't it? I'm now... I don't like talking about myself, but six years into punditry, I'd hope after those six years I've improved as a punditry. No, you have. And also, it's like being Prime Minister, right? They don't last six years. Liz Truss said, if only I got 48 days, I'd have been fantastic. No, but actually most prime ministers will tell you they feel like they leave when they've learned the most skills Yeah, yeah to actually be okay.

46:17You've got nothing else You always say that seems done. It's like imagine if you went to captain now I slide me as a figure, you know I did all right as a can but I think god if I could captain now be miles better than I was when I was 25 captain Yeah, but you're captain in your nation at 20 for how old were you when you got the captain? I think that's 27 if I do You're 27-captain in your country. It's young, isn't it? And I think that's really hard. But because it's professional sport, because it's exposed to people who throw everything at you, because that's what you expect. You're England captain.

46:48It's like Jacob Bethel captaining that. He's England captain. You should know... 21 years of age, captain. You learn it. Do you think that's a good thing, then? That they've earmarked Jacob Bethel to captain? Or do you think he hasn't done enough to deserve that? I mean, I wouldn't have given him for that series. I just don't think the boy needed any more pressure. But he actually handled it fine. They won the series. But you can read all the leadership books you want. You can captain your county. You can captain any club side. You can do it. Pretty much all of that's irrelevant when you get handling captaincy because it's such a...

47:21It's a job which you... Well, I look at Ben Stokes. I mean, I... Well, Vaughn, he was the best captain I've seen, personally. But I look at Ben Stokes and I think he's grown into being an amazingly strong, good captain in all areas of what that job now involves, which is not, you know, probably the playing bit is the most enjoyable bit, right? It's everything around running the England team and running the whole media and all the rest of it. It's a very hard job.

47:51Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. You two captains here, when you go out and you represent your country and you're in the field, how much of it is instinct and how much is planned? This is the plan, this is what we've got, the whiteboard. How much when you get out there, hang on, we've got to change this, instinct. I think it depends. You're always ahead of the game, you've got to be. It depends. You can't be reactive. My style was I wanted information, but I wanted to react. So I wanted to react to the situation out in the middle. So, you know, you bowl first because you think there's going to be a bit of something in the pitch.

48:27So you've got to be proactive, not reactive. Absolutely. So we saw at the beginning, again, in India, that Shubham Gill was reactive, but he got better. But he's only a young captain. The more I did it, the more I understood it. Whatever thought came into my mind, it was the right thought. Yeah. Because just go for it. So if I suddenly thought, oh, I need five slips, just go for it. And fundamentally, I think, I look at a lot of young captains who try and do it in the county game, I go, what the hell are you doing? Why would you want to be the captain at a young age? You know, because the older I got, you realise that it is a bit of fun.

48:59You know, if you can take the kind of fun element out onto the field and realise that, by the way, you're not going to be right all the time, but if you're willing to make decisions and if you're willing to go for it, and it's not being extravagant, you know, I'm putting fields for fielding's sake, but if you're willing to make decisions all the time, that's why I really admire Ben Stokes. Because I'm sitting there commentating, as we all do, and we're sitting there and you kind of go, wow, that's great. Because he's making things happen all the time. There's a reason I'm asking this, but what percentage of decisions have to be right if you're a captain for you to get the credibility and support of the team?

49:35You've got to win. Right. I'll tell you what, when I did America's Got Talent, right? I'd never done anything like it in my life. I get taken out to LA, Simon Cowell comes and sees me in my trailer next to David Hasselhoff on the Paramount movie lot in Hollywood, right? I'm like, how is this happening? Who cares? Take it, right? And he comes to me and says, right, you can be as mean and judgmental and rude as you like, but you have to be right in your critiques 80 % of the time or the audience watching at home, they won't buy the act. But if they broadly think you're right four-fifths of the time, the act will be fine.

50:10They'll love it. And I thought there's such good advice for anything in leadership because what it means is you can go for it and you can fail 20 % of the time, I think, in anything, right? But when I ran the Daily Mirror, there were people there that didn't like me, but what they always said was I took decisions all the time. Because you're making 100 decisions a day as an editor for Daily Paper. And I would be wrong 20 % of the time, probably. But if I hadn't been right 80%, you don't carry people with you. Yeah, I guess I'd say you've got to win. If you're going to win, you're going to make more decisions right than wrong.

50:42That Britain's Got Talent is a rip-off. Opportunity, not. It was. You agree. You agree. I've got to tell you, friends, and I mean this... Who won it for 12 weeks? Bobby Crush. No. No, I've read about it. You've done this already. Yeah, we've had this. It was the fella in his underpants. Yes, yeah, it was. Musical muscle man. Tony Holland. Yeah, that's right. Tony Holland. And the fella with the tin. He knocked him off, banging his tin on his head, singing Mule Train. But the thing is, it was a rip-off. I remember Simon Cowell took me out for lunch in Kensington. Is he a nice guy? Great, great guy.

51:23And I owe him a lot, actually. I wouldn't have had any career in America without him. He's been great for me. But he took me out for lunch before any of the talent stuff had started. And X Factor was obviously the biggest thing in the world at the time. And he said, I'm going to bring back an all-round talent show. He said, like, New Faces, Opportunity Knocks and the Gong Show in America. Do you remember the Gong Show? And it's any talent. And this is an amazing story. This is what happened. We did a pilot at ITV, right? So, Paul O 'Grady's Got Talent. He was the host. Yes. The judging panel was Simon Cowell, me and Fern Britton.

51:56Yeah. Yes. Fern Britton, he was then doing this morning. I think I knocked Fern out in the dance off on Strictly 2012. I think you did. I think I knocked her out. I think you did. She must have been bad. I think it was my cha-cha-cha, got rid of her. Stars in their eyes. Remember that one? Stars in their eyes. I do. So it was like a pastiche, but what was the audience were the contestants. And they all came up on stage, right, and the audience cheered them or whatever. So that's how it started. It was about to be greenlit as a primetime ITV show. And I'd been fired from the mirror, disgraced, shambles, blah, blah, blah.

52:28I was trying to get back in the game somehow. And this was going to be my great comeback. And then Carol rings me and goes, Paul O 'Grady's had a massive falling out with ITV. He's told them to shove it up their arse and he's gone to Channel 4. I went, what does that mean? He went, they're not going to go ahead with it. I was like, oh. And I'll never forget, the day my life changed, about six weeks later, I get a text message, Piers, I've sold the rights to Got Talent to NBC in America, who want to call it America's Got Talent, which I immediately thought was a way better way of doing it. Patriotic, the big country.

52:57And he said, and I need someone as... He said, I can't be on it because of American Idol in America. He said, so I need someone as judgmental, opinionated, obnoxious and arrogant as me, and your name has immediately sprung to mind. And he said, can you fly out to LA tonight, I think it was, and see the NBC lot tomorrow, which is what I did. And three weeks later, we started, and I remember we filmed the series in LA, and it was the Hoff, Regis Philbin was the host, the Hoff was next to me, total lunatic at the time, and it calmed down afterwards. And about six weeks after we finished taping, I was at Ascot getting drunk, betting on the old horses, and my phone goes, and it's Cal.

53:39and the ratings are coming, right? And this is like one of those, he said to me, three out of 30 shows work, new shows work in America. 27 get canned immediately, just bombed. You get yanked off air. So he'd come out, I was just waiting. I was like, you know, which way is my sliding door life going to go? And he goes, Piers, it's Simon. It's not good news. I'm really sorry. I went, oh. He said, no, it's actually really bad news. I'm actually very surprised and really disappointed personally. You know, obviously a lot's gone into this. It strung this fucking thing out for about three minutes, right?

54:14It's awful. In fact, for me personally, he said, it's about as bad as it could possibly be. I went, oh, God. Really? And he said, yeah, he said, unfortunately, it's number one hit by Absolute Miles, the biggest show on American television, and I feel like Dr Frankenstein, who just created a monster. And I was like, hey! But the point of the story about Cal was he created that literally on a napkin in the restaurant. He went, I'm going to bring back a talent show. It's going to have a sort of tough, meanie judge, a mother hen figure in the middle and a funny person on the end and an all-round entertainer as the host and will have any talent.

54:54You can do anything you want, not just singing. And now that franchise got talent. I think it's in over 60 countries, I think, worldwide, is the franchise still running today. So this was back in... This lunch was 2005. And it just really... You mentioned, did they rip it off? Yeah. In a way, it was the same idea. And, Piers, you've done lots of things throughout your life, but then, as you say, that phone call in America... Life-changing. Absolutely. Well, because I then did that for six years and I did Celebrity Apprentice. So NBC, same network, wanted to do a celebrity version of Apprentice and because I was working for them on America's Got Talent, they persuaded me to do it.

55:32Donald Trump was the host. Oh, the donch. He chose me. The donch. You'll be unsurprised to hear as his apprentice. And, in fact, when I won the live finale, he said, Piers, you're arrogant, you're obnoxious. A bit familiar thread by now. You're arrogant, you're obnoxious, you're possibly evil, I don't know, he said. But you beat the hell out of everybody and you're my celebrity apprentice, right? Ba-ba-ba. When he became president, I sent him a note. Dear Donald, you're arrogant, you're monstrous, you're possibly evil, I don't know, but you beat the hell out of everyone and you're the President of the United States.

56:11Yes. He was... Anyway, but then I did... And I replaced Larry King at CNN. All these amazing things, but they all came from that one phone call. Because if that show had been tanked, we would have been dead on arrival, I'd have been sent backpacking. I remember talking to Annie Robinson, remember, who did Weakest Link. Yes. And he went to America and she was the Queen of Mean, Biggest star on American television, right? And then 9-11 happened and they yanked her off air for three months because they didn't want to have anything mean on TV, understandably. And by the time it came back, it had lost all its momentum.

56:43And she just said to me, she said, when she was at her peak, she had a bungalow at the Beverly Hills Hotel, had it in the first class, whatever. The moment they decide you're superfluous, you're basically one-way ticket home, no-one takes the call. Go on, goodbye. It's all over. That's been a sport. But in a way, it's very like sport. It's as brutal a sport. But when you're doing great, it's fantastic. And when you're not doing great, my grandmother, who I'll come to, had a great line about, you know, one day you're the cock of the walk and the next you're feather duster. And she used to always remind me of this, sending me little doodles of the cock of the walk or the feather duster.

57:18The point being, don't get overexcited when you're cock of the walk. And don't get too down when you're the feather duster. You know, I always think outside of... Which is exactly like sport. Exactly like sport. Just having the mental ability to cope with both of those two extremes regularly will determine the career you have and the life you have, right? But my grandma, this was hilarious. My village team, we decided to take on my family, genuinely my family team. So I take a team of brothers, cousins, you know, uncles, and we go and take on the village. And they're a pretty good little club site.

57:51And we get down there and they bring in a Pakistani ringer who's playing for Brighton, who smashed 140. and they hammered us. I went, OK, if you want to play that game, not a problem. So the next year, I turn up and I have a big van and out gets Alvin Kalenturam, Richie Richardson, Sherwin Campbell, Stuart Williams, Philip Tufflow. I remember. I had Frank Bruno to umpire. Anyway, and we got going and we got rained off for about half an hour. So I said, well, we'd better go back to my place in the village for a party. Went back to my place for a party, had an unbelievable party. Tuffers was leading the charge.

58:25and at one stage he wanted to go to the loo and didn't know where it was in the house. So he goes upstairs to be met and he's wearing his England jumper and he's met halfway up the stairs by my grandmother. He's been woken by the noise, right? This is like about 11 at night. And she says, who are you? Tuffer stands to attention and says, madam, I am Philip Tuffnell, Middlesex and England. And she said, well, I'm very pleased for you, but now go back downstairs. Don't be that, Phil. I do! It was a melting party. But after that, every year for the next nearly 20 years, I used to take a family team, but used to have ringers in it.

59:02So Vaughn played three times, Chris Gale, KP played three times, Freddie Flintoff... 147 I got, Dave. We had... Shane Warne came down, Lara came down. In one team, I had Lara, Courtney Walsh and Inzema and Alhook one year, and we had two 2020s. The first one was against the old and young of the club, the second one against the first leg. and Lara goes out the first one and the old silver fox, Dave Hutchinson, he's got more superstar batsmen on his belt notch. And he comes in and Lara nicks off second ball. And he stands there. We used to get like 2 ,000, 3 ,000 people. And they're all standing there.

59:41Lara stands, like, what happens, right? And all the slipkicks go, fuck off. So he shuffles off. So he gets in the dressing room in the break between the two matches. meanwhile Inziman has gone out to be next man in and he goes leave it to me Skipper the West Indies always let you down and smoke some beautiful 80s but we got in the dressing room in the halfway thing and I'm giving a little team talk I said little boys we lost the first game I said this can't this can't happen now this is the big one and I said and Brian and with that Courtney went like this I said yes Courtney he said permission to speak Skipper I said of course Courtney he said In my experience of playing international test cricket with Brian Charles Lara for 15 years, he said, when he get nought in the first innings, he don't need no pep talk in the second innings.

1:00:28And Lara went out and the first ball, he just went... But we had... Everyone came and it was... And sometimes it would be like Maury Morecambe came and just smashed one of the biggest hundreds. Devon Malcolm hit 120. Devon? Dev! He was passing six in the minor counties that season And he was just straight hitting them, straight to six. He hit one of the... You hit your 150 of about 60 balls, wasn't it? I did, I did. Are you still doing it? No, we stopped when the pandemic came. But the last... Well, this is what I was thinking. Not T20, though, no. He's been informed this year. You got a good seven, didn't you?

1:01:02No, he got 11, seven and... I've got an 18, I think. Yeah, I think you'd be good for New York. We might revive him for one year only, so that you and I can open the baton. Oh, that would be nice. Stick to cricket, I'll come and play. That would be great. We'd come and play. It'd be fun. We'd come and have it. Dave, you were good against morally. I'd love to see you. Piers, Donald was in town last week. He was. He rang you, is that right? He did ring me. Yeah, and what's he, on your phone, what does it come up as? DJT. DJT? Yeah. And does he work, obviously the phone, do you WhatsApp him or do you text him?

1:01:34I text him and he texts back. I was thinking he was texting me yesterday morning. Really? I know it's weird, but then I knew him a long time before he was ever a politician. And when I went to CNN, I interviewed him 40 times. So we became really good friends and we've stayed that way. It's just he happens to be the most powerful and probably divisive figure in the world. But he's always been good to me. We've had the odd little falling out, but he's... No, he was funny. I mean, he loved the royals. Because people don't realise why it meant so much to him. That his mother was Scottish. Scottish.

1:02:05Raised in Scotland until she was 18. Then she went to New York and married Freddie's dad. But when the Queen was coronated in 1953, television had just come out. And Donald was six, and he sat there with his mum watching a little television of this amazing global event, the first one really ever on television, of the Queen coronation. The Queen was in her mid-20s. Remember, it was so beautiful. And that stuck with him. And he was just enamoured with the whole royal thing, the monarchy and everything. So when he got the state visit with the Queen, that was incredible. and then this time around he's the first American president to ever get two of them and this time he had a different monarch as well, also extraordinarily unusual.

1:02:45No one's ever had a state visit from any country with two different monarchs in the UK. So it meant a lot to him and I say to people about Trump, you know, yes he's got a massive ego, yes he's a bit of a narcissist, all those things, of course he is. But if someone is like that and they happen to be in a position to help or not help your country, then you have to play the game, right? You just have to. It's like having a very divisive, annoying, irritating player who happens to be brilliant. You can either harm yourselves by not trying to accommodate it. I'm talking to you here. I switched off after that.

1:03:20Or you unceremoniously abandoned them. No, I think... And so I thought what we did was great, because actually I think it made him feel... I know, he rang me the next day. He loved the state dinner. He made actually a really... If you go and watch that speech he did at the state dinner, amazingly pro-British speech where he went through all the great things of our country I've not heard a Labour Prime Minister doing that since Starmer came to office so he's a complex interesting, fascinating guy who has been twice now President of the United States so America had four years when he wasn't in office to think about him and then voted him back and I think one of the reasons is they just think he gets stuff done you may not like what he says, you may not like the way he says it He loves winding people up.

1:04:04He's all of those things. But if you look at it in America, a lot of people think he gets stuff done. What's his WhatsApp? Yeah, can you just... LAUGHTER Next time you WhatsApp him, can you just... Because we've got this clip of Donald and obviously Major League Cricket in the States. Oh, yes, yes. And it's starting to get a little bit of traction. Where do they play that? Well, they play it all over the States. Oh, do they? Yeah, New York. But there must be a hotbed. Yeah, I think New York, I think. Yeah, there's all these franchise teams around America. Now, Donald's probably going to get heavily involved.

1:04:34He's turned up to sport in advance, but... Can you just advise your mate Donald on his pronunciations of... How does this turn up? Kieran? Where's this gone? We just need to make sure that Donald, if he's going to make a speech at... It's very pronounced, is it? Where's it gone, Luke? Talk amongst yourselves. Yeah, there we go. There we go. This is the country where your people cheer on some of the world's greatest cricket players, from Su-Chin, Tendul-Kun to Gero-Kul-Li. LAUGHTER Can you advise him? Su-Chin! Su-Chin! You know, one of the greatest ever to play our great game. And Donald's called him Su-Chin.

1:05:21Actually, he got quite close. Yeah. So, if you do get a chance to WhatsApp, can you just send him that clip? And they're saying, look, it's such a tough nail. If you could get him to pronounce all our names, that'd be great. For the game, he could come and umpire. You could get Don to replace Frank Bruner. That would be quite good.

1:05:44Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Piers, we're going to finish off with a few community questions. Of course. Very simple questions. We've had many in for you. This is a good one. You can only pick one of these things. Arsenal to win the Premier League or England to win the Ashes in Australia? That would be easy, man. Do you know what? Somebody once said, would you rather score the winning goal for Arsenal in a Champions League final? Would you rather score 100 at Lords against Australia in the Ashes? Go on. I went with the cricket. Oh, good lad. Cricket was my real first love. So if I could only choose one, England winning the...

1:06:27You talked about Red Bull cricket earlier. I don't really watch anything but Red Bull cricket. To me, Test cricket is not just the best form of the game, but for me it's really the only one that I get emotionally engaged in. I thought this series against India was fantastic. I think back to the 05 series, just the rollercoaster of emotions and the quality of the play and all of it around it. So I would actually go with the... I would love to see us this winter win the Ashes. I think we've got the team. If Wood and Archer stay fit, I think we've got a great, great chance. And it would be brilliant.

1:06:59When we win the Ashes in Australia, is there a better thing in sport? I don't think so. Well, Cookie did it. How do they feel? Well, unbelievable. That feeling when Tremlant got beer out on that last ball. Like, you just remember. I don't think satisfaction is the right word, but you don't get satisfied in sport, do you? Because there's always another challenge. Actually, for that moment, when you sat there as a team, You just like everything. Even though we were going to win that game, they still wake up in the morning, you're still thinking, God, they could. And just absolute relief. And sat in the changing room, I remember Jimmy couldn't speak because he was really unwell.

1:07:35He was just knackered, like five games. And everyone just looked around, everyone was just like, the weight of the world is off your shoulder, just for that very small period of time where you've actually achieved something special. What was your, if I could replay one moment for you of your entire career, what would you choose? It would be that moment. It'd be that, probably give me that morning. It was quite a long morning because actually they batted for a little bit of time, but just knowing we'd achieved something which will always be spoken about. You know, Beefy's 81 Ashes, like I was actually with him the other day, and that was spoken about.

1:08:07Not that the 10-11's in that kind of thing, but that actually is a period. Always remember that side who won it, and I think that's very special. And was it more relief than sort of... Yeah, well, it was exit for that first bit, when we got the wicket and you do all the cuddling, all that kind of stuff. Then when you get in the change room and it's quiet, you literally just go... And you just sit there and it's not loud. It's loud. It gets louder as more out-dog gets loud. But for that first half an hour, once all the stuff, you just sit there and it's... Just brilliant. And you just don't get...

1:08:39I mean, we all watch Whiteball Cricket. I really enjoy it. But in terms of emotional investment in a Test match or the Red Bull, that effort, you cannot replicate it. You cannot regret it. Absolutely spying. Last two, Piers. Can only choose one. Ronaldo or our late, great pal Shane Warne? For what? Either. Well, if it's a night out, Warne. In terms of sporting greatness? Sportsperson. Well, Warne to me is, I would say he's the greatest cricketer that's ever lived. And the reason I say that is I just felt, A, he was a master bowler, but be the mental dominance he used to have over people, the mental strength, the resilience, the character, the fun, the whole package with Warnie.

1:09:28You know, I could choose a batsman, I could choose an all-rounder, of course. But if you ask me, actually, if I could have someone to win a game for my life, and that's why the parallel is quite interesting, if I could think of a footballer to score a goal on a wet Wednesday in Stoke to save my life, who would I choose? I'd choose Cristiano. and if it was to win a cricket match on any surface, it would be shame-warm. And I think for those reasons, I wouldn't choose one over the other. You have to. You have to. That's the question. If I have to choose one over the other, I'm going shame-warm. Over Ronaldo.

1:10:03I love Ronaldo, but he would understand. Cricket is my first and biggest love. He watches this, does Cristiano. He will, he will. I hope so. As long as I didn't say Messi, he'll be fine. Right, last one. Thierry Henry or Kevin Peterson? Ooh. Well, they both brought me enormous pleasure. Kevin, the most exciting England batsman post-war. Certainly the most exciting I've ever seen. I agree with you, I think Joe Root now has the claim to rightly be called the greatest we've ever produced. But KP was the most exciting.

1:10:41And Thierry Henry... It's interesting. I used to say Bergkamp was my favourite Arsenal player I've ever seen and then Bergkamp turned up at an Arsenal game two years ago and I was just about to tell him Dennis, you're my and I went Dennis like that and I felt a tap on my shoulder and it was Thierry and I went you are one of my two favourite players ever absolutely brilliant but Kevin's been great I know Thierry quite well I actually saw him at the game at the weekend and he was very friendly He's a really nice guy. Kevin's a proper friend. And he's actually been a really good mate of mine. One thing about Kevin that always stuck with me, when I asked him to play in my game, he got picked to captain England for the first time in a one-day international the day before.

1:11:32And he was going to be my big draw for that year. England's current star playing was so unusual. And he said, yeah, no problem. And then he captain England that day. and then the Sunday morning, 11 o 'clock, with a one o 'clock kick start, massive crowd come, all the villages, Kevin Peterson, the England captains come around. And he rings me and he says, I'm really sorry, mate. He said, Moores has found out and says, I can't play, or Flower, whichever one was, he said, I can't play. Just can't take the risk, you know, I'm England captain. I'm sorry to let you down, mate. I'm really, right. And I was absolutely gutted.

1:12:05I was like, how am I going to get out of this, right? And I was like, no, it's fine, mate. I totally understand. and then an hour and a half later he turned up. No, really. All a big wind-up. He turned up. No! He wore his England jumper, he went out, he played one of the best innings. I mean, it was just beautiful battering. He never slogged, he took them seriously, he respected the guys, he hit 150 and then he got himself out. The crowd gave him a standing ovation, and I just thought, that's a guy that I will always have respect for. He just kept his word. He didn't need to. He could have let me down.

1:12:42I always take people as I find them. Like, I've never met you. Now, we're going to be big bucks. But we never met each other. And I take everyone as I find them. I don't care what other people tell me about people. I don't care what their reputation. Nothing like that. It doesn't matter. To me, it's like, what do you like when I meet you? And I've known you a long time. Known you a very long time. Not as well as I would have liked, actually. I've been more of a fan from afar. But, yeah, I like cricket people. Cricket people, in my experience, are stand-up people. It's a great community. Have you seen Kevin's latest ex-tweet?

1:13:16No. He said, I'm 45 now and regret having tattoos. He also regrets the skunk hairdo that he had. Do you remember that? That's the one. Jimmy had it. Of course, he plays some of his best innings with the skunk on. But, yeah, you guys, the cricket world is a great world. I think it's a brilliant, unique community. There's nothing quite like it anywhere, really. And my favourite thing of the year, coming here... Look at it. ..or going to the Oval or some of the other grounds and watching a Test match and being with my mates or whoever, and it's just the best thing... So, I know times are going on.

1:13:52You mentioned Beefy briefly. Yeah. So I worked forever with Beefy. And he wrote the column in the mirror. He did. He did, but he didn't. He used to... Well, Crashlander used to do it. Crashlander, and then Dean Wilson would come in and I've come to do the column. Write what you like, just fucking write what you like. And just go out. So when I become editor of The Mirror, I get told you've got Ian Botham as one of your columnists. I was like, oh, this is my hero. I was 16 and 81. This was literally my hero, right? So Nainish, the great Nainish Desai, one of my favourite people in the world and Ian's long-time, long-suffering lawyer.

1:14:33And he said, Piers, we want to take you out for dinner. just get to know Ian and I said fantastic dinner with Ian this is going to be great so they book a table at Bibendum in Chelsea and I get there and there are three of us and four magnums of wine are open open they're not on the table they've all been open I'm like okay so we get stuck in 2.30 I'm hearing all the stories we've gone through 81 every game we're having a great time and then I vaguely remember something at the end agreeing something Anyway, go to bed, 3 o 'clock. Wake up in the morning with a call from the managing director of the Daily Mirror.

1:15:11Beers, this is Roger Eistow. What happened last night with Ian Botha? Immediately, you're like, Jesus, what did happen? Was I arrested? What went on? No memory. I said, I've just had his lawyer, Mr Desai, on the phone. I said, yes. He said, you appear to have doubled his salary on a piece of napkin paper. I said, well, he was grotesquely underpaid, whatever we were getting. So I think that's why Beef and I have got on ever since. Because for not writing his column, he got paid double. Piers, thanks for coming. I'm going to leave you for one last thing. You're England captain. Yeah. I know you'd like to have been.

1:15:47You probably think you should have been. I'm dropping Alistair. So I've flown you over to Perth for this year's Ashes. Yes. Your final speech to the team is going to be what? Final speech to the team is the one that Douglas Jardine said in an impromptu speech to an Australian fan who, in the middle of the Bodylines series, when Harold Larwood was peppering them in a way that Joffre and Mark Wood hopefully will pepper these Aussies this time, in a way Brett Lee peppered me, not that I've got any bitterness about it. No. And one of the fans shouted out at Jardine, You won't win many friends playing like this, Mr Jardine!

1:16:25To which Jardine, the old Horovian, turned to him and said, Oh, my dear fellow, I haven't come here to make friends. I've come here to win the ashes That's what my speech would be boys. Don't worry about making friends. Just win

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