Shaun Udal: Playing With Warne, Marshall Brilliance & Parkinson’s Battle | Stick To Cricket EP 48

0:00Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

0:30Phil Tufnell: It's a little bit tricky, though, while you're talking.

0:33Michael Vaughan: Like our hearts. Mate, you're there, mate.

0:35Phil Tufnell: No, where's our croissants?

0:37Michael Vaughan: No, that's for another show, Dave. Oh. Morning. I've eaten them all. Morning, morning. I know people text me saying how much I eat doing this. I've got to stop eating.

0:47Phil Tufnell: Do you know, I've looked and thought, they keep coming to us when we've just got a flaming mouthful. I'm going to try not to eat anything. I know I've seen it in hours at it as well. Can't help it. Get up early to come here. like pastels anyway we're in manchester yesterday in the circus tavern and bass says hello yes

1:05Sir Alastair Cook: landlord buzz yes yes good boy yeah yeah he's in good form what does he do uh he's a landlord he is the smallest uh smallest bar in the world it's probably the smallest pub in manchester

1:18Phil Tufnell: manchester yeah not the world isn't it the world yeah yeah i mean it's the circus circus tavern yeah yeah buzz yeah good man top man that's uh there's a there's a hell of a pub crawl around manchester in all the old pubs pevril of the peak britain's protection city arms the temple of convenience the temple of convenience is the converted toilets on oxford road right um whereas you know them with all green marble polished marble when you went down go down the steps toilets and downstairs and go up the other side well that bottom bits turned into a pub the temple of convenience strongly recommend it right now strongly recommend the visit I took I took the great Ian Ward in there and he's a good Potter yeah he's in yeah good Potter yeah he's in he's on his Guinness and he does like a cigarette every now and again so he was sat on the steps halfway down with a guinness and a cigarette the people having to get and they got the smell

2:24Sir Alastair Cook: out of it after all these no no no oh no so it still smells like a urinal yeah yeah what you go for a pint well the pump the pump you're drinking well it's just a slight whiff

2:37Michael Vaughan: don't get this down like a fine like a fine wine it is it's like a fine wine just a there you know so you're having your lager and you just have a sip of your and go oh so yeah as you say it's a good pub crawl marble arch great pubs there's a good one opposite uh piccadilly station mile maize on the left yeah past that yeah well there you're left and that's where we started the waldorf i'm right mate i think we started there i think it is the waldorf yeah it might be the waldor craig white next york training one of your He's got a good pub crawl around Manchester. He coached at length for a few years.

3:15He used to get the tram, stay at the ground,

3:18Michael Vaughan: get that tram into town. That's it. And he had a tremendous pub crawl.

3:21Phil Tufnell: I did it yesterday.

3:23Michael Vaughan: Chalky White standing at the end of the bar. Just having a look. Good man. Magnificent. What else has been happening last year? Very talented. Bonjour. Bonjour. Have you been?

3:37Sir Alastair Cook: Germany. It looked very posh. So you changed from Spain? Well, no, I did the grand tour of Italy, beautiful. The architecture, the scenery. It was amazing. It really, really was. The past. Is it still your birthday? Yes, it is still. And I didn't have a bad meal or a bad glass of wine. Were you on the pasta? Yeah, oh, yes, yes, yes. Did they show you out to them? No, yeah, every restaurant we went to. Did you get that big... Hey, hey, hey, hey, Gianfranco, Gianfranco! And he'd come out. He'd been working here for 30... Zola, Zola! He'd been on Zola. He'd been working here for 30 years and making the pasta.

4:27Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, it was. Did you do it in that big block of cheese and this... Oh, there's love. I had a great time. Oh, what? Is she in the Duchess? Yeah, me and the Duchess. We did, like, the tour. We went to Puigla. Send me some pictures. He kept it. Yeah, late, late. You splashed the cash on that. Lake Garda. Absolutely stunning. Lake Coma? Is that it?

4:45Phil Tufnell: He kept wicket for some of that. Trevor Garda. Trevor Garda. Did you play game two? Yes, sadly. Trevor Garda, he couldn't tell a word. He said, Rrrr, rrrr, rrrr, rrrr. Pardon? Recommended, Mike.

4:58Michael Vaughan: What was that umpire from down there that spoke like that? Merv Kitchen.

5:01Sir Alastair Cook: There was a Merv Kitchen.

5:02Michael Vaughan: Merv, good player, Merv. Another one. Yeah. Come on, give me some unpacks. Come on, show me. Ray Julian. Ray Julian. Ray was a proper unpacks. Ray looked a bit like you, Phil, didn't he?

5:14Sir Alastair Cook: Kenny Palmer, wasn't he?

5:15Michael Vaughan: Kenny Palmer. Kenny Palmer. Pads out of the Wii.

5:19Sir Alastair Cook: Ray Julian, yeah. That's when the boys used to give them out proper, wasn't it? Yeah. Oh, bollocks. What have I done here? No. Was it Kenny or Roy who used to go... Roy, Roy. No, that was Kenny. It was Kenny. It was Kenny.

5:33Phil Tufnell: Roy used to go... How did you give him that? I used to... I was a bit of a trigger. I used to stand with my hands behind my bike. Straight away. You're not supposed to. You're supposed to raise your finger above your head. John Hampshire? Yes. Ray Julian used to go like that before he'd even appeal. Write it down in his book. That's another one Does it matter which time you're doing? You know, I used to it's a coins there coin over here Yeah, yeah, and you do you do get a bit of a practice did you practice? Can we can we can we say hello to our guests? Yes

6:20Michael Vaughan: Come on, let's welcome Shaggy umpires. Come on. Give us a story about them. Who's your fat? Don't tell me Ray Julian in your face. Was he? Yeah We're ballers friends. He had a nice wife as well, Megan. She was always in the crowd, cheering him on. Yeah. Get that finger up and get on the ground and the preach. Did he ever say to you, just hit the pads and I'll... Oh, plenty of times, yeah. Anywhere near will do, Shaggy. LAUGHTER The problem was getting anywhere near. LAUGHTER He was a keeper, wasn't he, right?

6:47Sir Alastair Cook: He was a wicket keeper. Wicket keeper batsman. He was there. He appreciated an early finish. Yes. There's nothing wrong with that.

6:53Michael Vaughan: He gave Goffy, I think it was Goffy, at Worcester, a hat-trick on day three evening. I honestly don't think any were hitting him. Oh, listen, DRS has proved him right. Yeah, definite. Yeah. What do you mean, proved him right? They weren't missing... They were probably not hitting two of the sets. If they were shaving, it's all right. It wasn't shaving the first set, it wasn't shaving the second set. It might have shaved the third set. That's how we've got to get up on that M6. Still close enough.

7:20Phil Tufnell: We've got to get him here. Get Ray Julian's out there. I'd love to, yeah.

7:24Michael Vaughan: Get him there. What have you been up to, Farmer?

7:27Phil Tufnell: Farming.

7:28Michael Vaughan: Hot. Great T-shirt tan.

7:31Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. It's been lovely. What this time of year?

7:35Michael Vaughan: Shearing.

7:35Sir Alastair Cook: A lot of shearing. Well, yes, they've got to get the coats off. You good at that? No, I don't do it. No, you just sit there? Well, I kind of get them in. Right. And let them do the hard work. You get them in the pen? I get them in the pen. And then our lambs are starting to be big enough to go... Big sauce. How many sheep have you got? A couple. Oh, a few. It's easy to get all the sheep. We've got dogs. I trained one of the dogs.

8:01Michael Vaughan: Right. But, yeah, so basically shearing, and then the lambs are making weight now.

8:06Phil Tufnell: So when you've sheared them and you've got all this wool, what happens to that wool? What do you do with it? The wool goes to the wool board, and they come and collect it. They collect it. Yeah, most of ours will go into carpets and stuff. OK. Axe Minsters. Pardon? Axe Minster carpets.

8:24Michael Vaughan: What do you reckon is easier, training a dog? To get the sheep or teaching someone to play a forward defence? The dog is easy.

8:34Sir Alastair Cook: I've done it. You've done everything! I have. No, I did it on telly. In Wales, I went down there for a TV show. What was it called, the TV show? I can't remember, but it's on there somewhere. Oof! I tell you, it was big prizes. The family, it was a four-by-four, a motorbike, something or other like that. So, you're not on Bully? No, no, no, there was loads of prizes and I had to get... He was a world champion, this dog, and what I had to do, I had a couple of days training down in North Wales or somewhere and I had to get these sheep into this pen. But you've got the world champion dog with you.

9:15Sir Alastair Cook: Absolutely.

9:18Michael Vaughan: It's like managing PSG. Absolutely. I mean, fuck all. LAUGHTER

9:23Sir Alastair Cook: I just opened the gate and I did a couple of combis and a couple of awares. Combis is turn left. Run left. Run left and aware is run right.

9:36Phil Tufnell: Is that right? Yeah. And I just opened the gate and this world champion went boom, boom,

9:40Sir Alastair Cook: and they got all the cars and all the motorbikes and everything. Holiday for four. So you didn't win the prize? No, no, no. I was doing it for a family. Oh! Lovely. That's good. It was lovely. The pressure was on, though, because I came down, I stayed with them the night, and I came down the stairs in the morning, and there was about four or five, you know, children there and everything like that, and they were going, I've never been to Disney! I've never been to Disney! As I was going off to do the trial. You said you trained the dog. No, you didn't train the dog, then, did you? Well, no, I had a day's working with him.

10:13Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, so you didn't train the dog. No, I didn't train the dog. He was a world champ. You trained already. What was his name? Lassie can't remember that now, but he was bloody good.

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12:08Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. So just hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

12:21Michael Vaughan: What is more difficult? A goalkeeper having to take a penalty in a shootout or a number 11 opening the batting as a night watchman? So I've just been sick. You look in the scorebook, 37 overs, 7 for 50, and he didn't sleep a wink all night.

12:37Phil Tufnell: What had he been doing?

12:39Sir Alastair Cook: Visualising. He was in the net. There used to be a heel, isn't it? So it's...

12:46Phil Tufnell: Oh, that face, aren't I? The thing is about watching television and them sort of days, black and white, you were much, much, much slower in black and white. In the news of the world, there was a picture of him in a pair of play around the pants. I've seen that picture. You were there.

13:05Michael Vaughan: So it's the easiest sport to get good at. Darts. No, darts. Oh, it's darts. How are you with the darts, Jack? I'm all over the place.

13:19Michael Vaughan: Right, come on, Shaggy, let's get you on to cricket. Yeah. Why cricket for you? The only thing I was good at. From what age? Oh, my great-grandfather, Geoffrey Francis Udle, played for Leicestershire before the war and was fast. He's kept his paper-clipping at home, which I've got, that says Udle measured as fast as Larwood. Really? Oh, OK. He was the MCC between 1871 and 1875. That's my great uncle, I think. But there's another one. That's J.F. Udl, I think. J.S. Udl, yeah, great grandfather. And then Jeffrey Udl, G.F. That's my grandfather. Oh, God, you're from a proper cricketing family then.

14:00Yeah, very much. Mum used to do the tea, the whole thing, weekend, you should go off and play cricket, Saturday and Sunday, and enjoy the game. And then Dad would just play and we'd go home, fish and chips on the way home. We were good lads on a Saturday afternoon. I used to go and help out the cricket club to the side screen paint the side screens do everything

14:17Michael Vaughan: What is it one club all your life down there? I was Cambly Cricket Club for a long long long time and then when we moved Houses and stuff and that was when we thought when I just played for Hampshire since then so That's how it started years ago. Just through my granddad and Camberley was in Hampshire. No just in Surrey funnily enough All right, so you're a brown hat are you? Well, not really Long to confess to be a brown hat I know It says here your great-grandfather J.S. Udall is credited with taking cricket to Fiji. Fiji, yeah. There's a statue of him in the main square in Fiji. Get the fuck out of here!

14:54He's not one of me, I'll tell you that much. He's not one of me.

14:57Sir Alastair Cook: There's a statue of your granddad? You've never told me that, Shecky. He brought cricket into Fiji in the late 1800s.

15:06Michael Vaughan: Well, he was an attorney general. It was, yeah. In Fiji. We're a proper cricket family. Yeah. In the blood. He's gone over there spying hasn't he? So what, there's a statue? He parked the Southampton spy gate. Southampton spy gate, you're from there, neck of the woods. What happened there? Not guilty. What happened there, Shags? That was awful, wasn't it? You can't do that. Are you a Southampton fan? No. I'm... West Ham. West Ham? Oh, dear. Oh, dear. You could have done some spying. Done some goals.

15:37Sir Alastair Cook: Are they any good? What's the statue? Are they any good? Just him. Just him. He just stood in the square. Let's go and find out.

15:45Phil Tufnell: Stick to cricket to Fiji. Why don't we do stick to cricket in Fiji?

15:48Michael Vaughan: I'm googling that now. Fiji. Where is Fiji? Where is Fiji? Very good at rugby. I haven't been, but... But are they any good at cricket?

15:57Sir Alastair Cook: I'm happy to go endorse the statue, though. No!

16:00Michael Vaughan: Lads, just to give you an update on the fifties cricketing scene. Fiji. On May the 18th, Fiji scored 136 playing the Philippines. Philippines chased it down, one down, in 15.4 overs.

16:14Phil Tufnell: Where is Fiji?

16:15Michael Vaughan: Chelsea Island. I'm sorry, obviously your great grandfather's not done a great job in the Fiji, Shags. Definitely not. Because on May 17th... Somoa. Can you just listen to the Fijians... Sorry, sorry. I'm coming from you, Philip. May 17th, the Fijians played South Korea, got an absolute hammering from them, and they played another game against the Philippines on the 14th of May and they got hammered by them. Oh. Room for improvement.

16:41Phil Tufnell: Rebuilding.

16:42Michael Vaughan: One-off tournament against, with South Korea, Philippines and Fiji, no points. Who's their coach? Yeah, I just lit for your stuff. The Fijian Assettoon, that represents Fiji. We knew one by the sounds of it. Yeah. So, who's the coach? Well, I'd say he's so nice. Jaggi's grandad's called Coyote. Sorry, why? It's going again. Doing it from the statue. Colin Sillat is the coach of Fiji. He's doing a terrific job, not winning many, but he's bringing...

17:10Phil Tufnell: He's got a really nice tan. He enjoys himself. Well, it's work in progress for Fiji, isn't it? Absolutely. I think we should give a morale boost in... We should turn up there.

17:22Michael Vaughan: Lads, they were bowled out for 48 against Maduatu in the World T20 Qualifier. They need a batting coach. Very strong side, Maduatu. Maduatu, he's a... Batting coach. What? Vanuatu.

17:34Phil Tufnell: Vanuatu. What is it? Can he bowl him out?

17:37Michael Vaughan: Vanuatu. They were bought out for 48 against Vanuatu. Is that a country? Yes. There you go. I thought it was. There you go. Where's Vanuatu? There you go, 169 for four. That job is terrible. Fiji, they were bought out for 48. I don't think this is going to make the cut. No, but it's worth looking at. There's jobs available over there. Yeah, not many times. I'm not surprised. Need a batting coach, Phil. Yeah. So that's right, so you're from a cricketing family. That's me, yeah. 1 ,003, how many wickets did you get, Phil? 1 ,200. 1 ,330. Have you done me? 1 ,330 wickets. Thank you. Were you always a spinner?

18:23Michael Vaughan: No. We had toughen from 15 onwards. Seema. Strong action. 10 to 15, I suppose. Quickest thing since sliced bread. Strong action. Strong action. Like all of them. Well, no, not really. Just chucked it down. Bowled it down as straight as possible. And one of the headmasters played a game for Hampshire under-15s and we needed three wickets to win in the last over. And as captain, I thought, I'm going to do this. And the master came to me and said, don't bowl the normal crap that you do. Try off-spin. During the game? During the game. Who was the headmaster? Got Attrick. Easy game, this. Yeah, got a trick, yeah, and won the game.

19:05What he showed you during the game. I said, well, what do I do? He said, just hold the seam and push your wrist. And it just came out and it turned and that was that. And I thought, why am I running 15 yards when I can run in on four yards and spin it? Did you? So that was that. You didn't have a long run-up, did you? Long run-up? You didn't know. No. You had a short run-up, didn't you? I initially had quite a long run-up for a spinner. And then I was told I'm wasting too much space and time. and Marshall running off 50 yards, our overrate wasn't the best. I'm Malcolm. I started as a medium pacer, yeah.

19:34Yeah, 1 ,300.

19:36Phil Tufnell: Do you remember him playing for England? Yes. Who selected him? Who selected him? Was it you?

19:42Michael Vaughan: No. David Graveney?

19:45Phil Tufnell: No. Jeff Miller? No. 94. I was going 2006. I'm a writing saying this is a left field selection everybody said who who picked him David Gower no 94 94

20:07Phil Tufnell: I've seen great cricket mind I've seen this lad he's a proper bowler and everybody said who and he picked him as he would do he would pick it he'd pick a talent I think he paid in the same not everybody's cup of tea Raymond He knew cricket. He knew a bit of offspin as well. He knew a bit of offspin. He was a proper Yorkshire bloke, Raymond. What does that mean? He would, like, to the point, didn't mess about. Didn't go round that round to get to the town. My first game for England, I was happy as day. My dad was in the crowd and he was fit. I got two for 37, I thought I did all right. He said, seven out of ten, you can do better next time, lad.

20:52Who said that, Ray? Yeah, I went off. That's great. I've done quite well. Two for 37? Yeah. What first dig? Yeah, and then one day international.

21:00Michael Vaughan: Oh, one day international. Who was it against? New Zealand. New Zealand. Two for 37? Martin Crowe, Ken Rutherford. Oh! Adam Praury. Got him through the gate. First one for Adam Praury. So who was your... So you end up from school bowling office. Yeah. Who was kind of your greatest mentor? Um... Being my father, right? And my grandfather. My grandfather was riddled with cancer before he died, but he never stopped throwing the ball at me in the garden. Two days before he passed away, he was in the garden. He could hardly move. He was just underarm. And he kept saying, when you throw the ball, point at the person's nose, and that's the way you'll get it.

21:35I just remember little things about how he used to do, but two days before, yeah, he was still throwing in the garden. I said, Grandad, you can't do it. He said, no, your career's more important than mine. So he just carried on with that. But I remember Dad was very hard-nosed as a person. very tough tough tough cricketer tough man and he would never give in ever ever give in he said you never ever give in until the last ball's done you can still win a game with a ball to go his attitude was and I remember as much as I enjoyed the social side of the game I tried my arse off when I played on the pitch so absolutely

22:11Michael Vaughan: what are your recollations of Hampshire back I mean when I came in 93-94 the old ground down there come on Hampshire the old ground down there what was the old ground called oh just a county ground yeah yeah i also remember southampton bournemouth portsmouth yeah i played i played at bayernstoke but the county ground you just remember the other squash courts yeah you used to have the most amazing ice cream strawberry ice creams yeah lovely oh very in plastic pint pots yeah yeah yeah you just get the like the plastic yeah the cups you drink out obviously full up with ice cream yeah walk back across the car park with your ice cream and sat down for 10 minutes always had a beer with

22:52Phil Tufnell: absurder after every day's play always always the grounds that we're talking about that was proper festival cricket was their grounds were naturally festival i remember that they had a little scorer called vic isaacs whose lad richard isaacs works for that's for sky and you know tradition of scoring in these little huts and so on it was it at portsmouth which was a naval ground yeah biggest roller yeah did massive huge i've never seen anything as big as this roller to roll the good thing about those games was i mean all right drinking after the game but you know i learned a lot yeah just sat there having a beer i remember listening to john embry talking to um to me and a couple of other young spinners and then marshall was talking with desmond haynes in one corner yeah he would put in you sleep this up last nine at night just because you were just listening yeah you didn't have to drink you could just listen yeah and you learned I learnt so much from doing that.

23:47Always very well looked after. He didn't have to drink, but... He did.

23:51Sir Alastair Cook: Always very well looked after when we came down to Hampshire.

23:54Phil Tufnell: So you were after... So Greenwich, Richards, Roberts, then three. Judgey. What year was your debut? Judgey. I joined Hampshire in 87, my debut was 89.

24:06Michael Vaughan: 89. Yes, I paid four decades of first-class cricket. 80s, 90s, noughts and 10s. Jesus. I wonder you've got 1 ,330 a week. I wonder I can't move now. So that first team in 89, who would have been in that? It was Chris Smith, Paul Terry, Robin Smith, David Gower, Mark Nicholas, John Ayling. Oh, good player. Bobby Parks, myself, Malcolm Marshall, who could play a bit. Malcolm Marshall. PJ Backer. Oh, yeah. Nick Backer. Nick Backer. Nick Backer. And Steve Andrew.

24:41Phil Tufnell: Yes. Yeah. Went on under-19 tours, didn't it? Not Trebejesty. Trebejesty. Trevor just gone. Gone to Lanks. Yeah. Gone to Lanks. Trevor Jesty. Trevor Jesty played that.

24:53Sir Alastair Cook: He did, yeah. Come on, give us a... I'm out of my depth here. I thought I knew a bit of cricket, but... This is obviously a match you, Shaggy.

25:00Michael Vaughan: Slightly too far back. Shaggy, right, of the 1 ,330 wickets, it's not too take away... How many of those wickets do you reckon you could say were down to Malcolm Marshall being... LAUGHTER

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25:40Michael Vaughan: Like the young generation. I mean, we all talk Jasper, but I think Jasper is the best I've seen. I actually played against Malcolm Marshall. He was playing for Scotland. Yeah, he was. Overseas I played against Marcia, but I never got him in the 80s when he used to watch on television. We taught Jasprit as being the one, but everyone from back and there go, I thought it was Malcolm Marshall. Marshall was the best. He was acknowledged by his own team as the best. And the spells he used to buy. We played Derbyshire at Portsmouth on a quick bouncy wicket. Ian Bishop for them. When one of the West Indians played against Maco, he upped his game.

26:12Vivit Glamorgan. I bowl when he's a bat in unbowling. How did they get on? What was Marshall's record against Vivian and stuff? Brilliant. Got him out? Yeah, got him out. And Vivian the cap? Vivian the cap, yeah. We played Glamorgan at Hampshire, against Hampshire, Hampshire against Glamorgan at the old county ground, and we set them 360 in the last day. And in the last session, Glamorgan were 180 for seven. Riches were 60 or not out. He got 170 or not out. won the game of the last ball 16 off the last over Marshall 466 walked off jump with his cap on hell of a run chase what nine down seven down seven down Nigel Cowley used to play for us played with the ball and got 40 odd not out and is it is it Marshall 16 off the last over yeah that was a game he's drinking the game

27:02Sir Alastair Cook: Nigel Cowley umpire yes um fierce competitor as well gave it all for Hampshire he had standards that he you know if you touched his wash bag he'd be like you don't do gucci says he was the best always he won't have he won't have anyone else he doesn't know more than boulder was as good as but no but didn't just cruise he tried every time he played for hampshire he tried his ass off yeah and he didn't have if you didn't do that he would would follow your lines also a great bloke

27:33Phil Tufnell: fantastic great bloke in the dressing room great bloke to play against and rapid oh yeah proper of wrapping yeah 99 yeah it was skinny skinny sort of yeah his bouncer was if he wanted to hit you on the head he'd be on the head yeah simple as that and he didn't he's in balance swing it he could have swing either way yeah he used to do is move his thumb use the crease go on he used to move his thumb that's what he says all the bullshit about wrists and stuff it's all about your thumb your thumbs there it's an out swing his thumb's there incredible i might try that yeah that's all is but that will work work for him yeah it's all that there's you can you do it to the camera please dave you know what's that for yeah all right right these brain stare then another you won't know i've heard of him it's got an end somewhere and it's suddenly an in swinger yeah bring your thumb there this cop changes your wrist without looking too visual

28:34Michael Vaughan: Statham and Truman they were the pair weren't they and the judge

28:42Phil Tufnell: I can bowl faster than Malcolm Marshall with me Mac on and a pair of Wellingtons I can bowl faster than that in just a medium pacer I'm telling you they were not as quick as me I was like lightning

28:59Phil Tufnell: Marshall was brilliant.

28:59Michael Vaughan: Well, you were in the TMS box when some footage of Fred came on the telly behind at Hedley one day, and it was black and white.

29:06Phil Tufnell: Yeah.

29:06Michael Vaughan: And I guess it was on. And you do the accent. Yeah.

29:11Phil Tufnell: Well, the thing is about watching television and them sort of days, when you were black and white, you were much, much, much slower in black and white. LAUGHTER There are some great bowlers running from that Kirkstall lane end and this lad's not one of them.

29:27Michael Vaughan: That was Neil Mallinder on debut. I think he got three for nothing, didn't he, against Pakistan?

29:32Phil Tufnell: Horses for courses, he got a five for... Yeah. That's right. At Headingley. At Headingley? Yeah, played in that game. Did you? LAUGHTER Did you? Yeah.

29:42Michael Vaughan: No way. He kept on sneaking off the left-handers, turning them round down the hill. He didn't play in that game. I think I did. I think I did. You played 800 test matches.

29:51Phil Tufnell: How many test matches did you play? 42. 42. We're just lucky to cover. You play more than 42 tests. You're the coach.

30:01Sir Alastair Cook: How many tests do you play, Shay?

30:03Michael Vaughan: Four. Let's get on to that. You made your test debut at the age of 36. 36. 36. Fourth oldest test debut in English history. Pakistan. I was there. I was there. You were playing. You were playing. Mumbai is that your debut Mumbai? Yeah, yeah, so I got the first test wasn't available in the second test You went on the Pakistan tour as well in 2005 didn't play then I played before weeks at 96 I got For weeks an average of 96 But you played that you're playing that one you I played in the Mind final test in Mumbai in that series will be one the test and your first test or the series But you're playing that game when showed if Rida was in the middle of the pitch doing a puree I was definitely the gas canister He's trying to say, the gas cans, we thought we were being shot at.

30:48My bag was packed, I was like, my passport's off, I'm going home. I rang the missus, I'll be home tomorrow. Yeah, the canister went off. I was netting out the back and I heard this thing. It was loud, bloody problem. But I didn't see the... I wasn't there when you did that. That was just... So, in Mumbai... How's your debut? No, Mumbai, my test day was Moultan. Moultan, and then... Trez got double-hundred, 190. That's right, we should have won that game.

31:14Michael Vaughan: I was injured when he had gone. I played the last two. Chase won 60 and lost by 20-odd.

31:20Phil Tufnell: Flinchoff played in that game in Malta. Yeah. Freddie was the captain in Mumbai, wasn't he? He was captain in Mumbai.

31:26Michael Vaughan: That was two... Five. The first game after... Pakistan was 05 after the test, after the Ashes. Yeah. And then I played in... When we got picked to go to India, I played the one test, which was the last one. I was there. Wakadi. That's it. Dhoni.

31:39Sir Alastair Cook: What do you call that ground? Wak-e-ndi. Wankaday. Wankaday. Wankaday. Yeah, there was... That was the game when... That was the one test I missed in my career. Monty was under the high ball and made a total pig's ear of it. Blamed the sun and the sun was fucking over there. Next ball. Next ball. Two balls later, yeah. Two balls. A bit slower and a bit wider, obviously. I was watching. Done him in the flight. Yeah, and he showed up in the air again. I thought, oh, it's Monty. Shit. He caught it. Yeah. That's the only test match I missed in my career, that one. So that was his Satin's wicket? That was his Satin's wicket, yeah.

32:10Michael Vaughan: So, well, I've got him. Oh, no, here we go. Spinners union. Cheers, guys, all those tweakers down this side of the table. My brother, bless him, was on the trip. I remember walking back to my mark. I had tears in my eyes trying to look just calm, just calm myself down. I saw my brother like that and I thought, oh, no, he's going to start me off again now. Trying to go through it all. Yeah, it was lovely, really nice. Great feeling just to contribute to the wins. The first win for 21 years. in it all dravid won the toss and bold bold and i was walking back to my thought i saw the toss and he went to drive in i thought oh shit hey it's a bowl yeah oh it's starting to get 100 and it strauss hot one it was hot really hot oh ashah better really won his debut yeah got 80 i think got cramp in his arms he did he did he's probably in his bottom i always remember that decision thing i i i was back home watch i was having a knee it was unbelievable to toss and bold it was brown as Well, brown and hot, bloody, ridiculously hot.

33:08But I think Freddie got... I think Strasi got 100, Bell got some, Shire got some, Freddie got 50 in both innings.

33:14Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. I got told to do Night Watchman on the third night. Lovely. I was in the toilet hiding. I knew someone wanted to... Duncan Fletcher said, well, where's Shaggy? I thought, oh, fuck. I'll do it, of course I will. Club and country. Dropped twice. In your chase gear. I survived. I survived in my chase gear. In the chase. I survived and got dropped twice. It was ragging, wasn't it? It was turning big time. Yeah. They were, I'm sorry. Chase, they weren't the... They didn't look the best, anyway. No, I'm not saying a word. LAUGHTER I mean, I know Dan who owns it. I love it. Don't worry, I'll be good.

33:48Good stuff. Yeah, magnificent brand.

33:50Michael Vaughan: Cheers, no. LAUGHTER So, what about... So, that was your England test match, then I got dropped. Got five weeks in the test match and never played again. Was I involved in that? No, well, I don't know, you might have been. Yeah, it was a good point. Monty came in. Monty came in, so he was... And that's fair enough. I was 37. That was bad enough, so... Good boy, Panasar. And...

34:12Sir Alastair Cook: Why do... 37, I mean, 37 is... Did you think that that had gone? So were you surprised when you got the call-up at that age? I was, but then I sort of thought, just during that summer of 2005, Warney was away with the ashes, obviously taking wickets and scoring runs and doing everything else he used to do. But I thought I was actually taking wickets without really knowing how well I was doing. And I thought, things are going quite well. But then it actually got the energy. I think it was his hip. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there was a game, we were playing Glamorgan at Cardiff, and they did all the stats of the spinners during the cut.

34:48And I was miles ahead. The wickets are 19 and Swanee was getting 32 and Monty was taking his about 34. And I thought, I might have a chance here. I thought, no, it won't happen. But then David Graveney that afternoon went into the dressing room and spoke to Warnie and asked what it was like on the pitch, waving the pitch and attitude and that sort of stuff. And Warnie just came back in and said, I shouldn't say anything, but I think you're going to go to Pakistan. Blimey. It just didn't really, then I was waiting for my phone to ring about a week later in the squad and it didn't ring until about five to ten.

35:17And I thought, I've not got it, I missed it, shit. Never mind. And the phone rang. Just to tell you, you picked for the squad for Pakistan.

35:24Sir Alastair Cook: Five to ten? Yeah, on the morning of the team being announced. Oh, in the morning. It's probably in the morning. I can't just say, I've got much in response to me at five to seven years.

35:36Michael Vaughan: LAUGHTER Or the mornings. It's the time to school. So you mentioned Warnie. Warnie had a huge impact on Hampshire and on your career. Massively, yeah. It just made you feel good. Made you feel... I mean, he used to put... He used to come showing you a bowl. But you haven't had a bowl yet. He said, no, because you'll get him out. He said, you'll get him out. and I thought why am I bowling instead of the best bowler of all time in the spin department certainly and he used to make you feel so good about it so he'd say this is how you're going to get him out what was he what was he he was a good captain wasn't he he was a very good shrewd shrewd very shrewd I mean he used to do things you think what the fuck's he doing here yeah you go along with it

36:13Phil Tufnell: and it'd come off yeah but no game was ever lost did he ever talk about not being Australia captain that just irked him didn't he never really did I mean he said some nice things about Steve or not he wasn't a big Steve Ball fan and that's pretty much publicised one thing he hated were selfish people and selfish cricketers if you're a selfish player you never get in never get in he hated it he was alright with Ricky wasn't he with Ricky Ponting I thought Ponting was a great guy Glenn McGrath was a great guy Brett Lee Mike Waugh yeah Mike Waugh the same sort of character Michael Clarke Michael Clarke he was a big one yeah that sort of eased a bit I think

36:52Michael Vaughan: Michael Clarke what was he like like With you as an off spinner, what did he teach you that you'd not been taught before? He taught me to be a bit more attacking and to believe that I was going to take people. Don't just hope you get a wicket, believe you're going to take a wicket. So your mentality was different. You wouldn't just run up and let go of the ball and see what happened. You had passion behind the ball and you had a plan behind it. So there was a lot of funny field settings. I think, why are you doing that? He said, I don't know why I'm doing this, but I'm just going to do it. And the ball would go there and you think, well, that's just genius.

37:23but he read a game read a batsman I've never seen anybody before incredible you've bowled the other end probably two of the greatest ever bowlers Warren, Marshall Warren and Marshall how lucky is that incredible cool do you know what I mean just that experience like it's also that you picked up 13 but also to talk to them to talk to them on the coach on the way to the games and stuff and I'm a big believer in talking I'm a big believer in technical skills but what you've got in here and what you've got in here are two most important things to me is you're a cricketer you're good enough because you've got the talent.

37:53There you are. They're the two areas you've got to work on. You've got a strong mind and a strong heart and the heart gets you through the tough times. Wall used to say to us every game, Wall used to say, find a way. If you go through a tough time, you find a way to get through it. But if it's Ian Bishop bowling at you, you get away, find a way.

38:09Phil Tufnell: A good line from Rob Key. I mean, Rob gets a bit of pressure every now and again and he'd be judged on what happens this summer. But I won't mention the bowler, a quick bowler who we talked about. He said he's got to let the brake off. He's always thinking, oh, what if I get injured? I might get injured. So what you're saying, you've got to have a belief and a mental strength and something in here, go for it. And Keesey said, you've got to tell him to take the brake off because he can bowl. Bow without fear. I think the fear thing is a lot. He didn't have any fear.

38:45Michael Vaughan: He didn't have much fear off the pitch. Neither did he, Shag. He was interesting. what's the craziest thing that warny did down at hampshire oh god how many lifts do you want some i won't say but i do remember no please do so i used to live about 35 40 minutes away from from southampton in beijingstoke and i used to stay down because if we had to win the night the next day we played middlesex chasing they just chased 340 on the last day and they were one down overnight and so what i said well can i stay at your place tonight she said yeah of course you can so i went to the lupo italian restaurant in southampton high street and we sat there and And his phone rang, as it always did, and he went, hello, oh hi, Jess, or what her name was, I can't remember.

39:24There's two of you. When, where? He said, I'll be there in about an hour. Okay, and he puts the phone down. He says, you're on your own tonight, I'm going off to Knightsbridge to see a couple of friends. Oh, anyway, bought a bottle of champagne, a bottle of vodka from the restaurant, and buggered off, didn't give me a lift up, I had to walk home. Anyway, we then wait till the next morning, and I go into his room, empty. No car outside the front, no worn in the bed, no women in the bed. And I thought, where is he? So I tried him at past seven, his phone wasn't working, wasn't on. And then I got about 25 past eight and I thought, this is getting trouble now, where is he?

40:04Anyway, I thought I was just going to go to the ground and try and blag it. Because I walk into the ground, Paul Terry, the Hampshire coach, says, where is he? I said, I don't know. I don't know. He had made no contact. Anyway, 20 past nine and he's in Knightsbridge. I get a phone call. Shaggs, morning mate, everything alright? I said, mate, where are you? He said, I'm just coming out of Knightsbridge. He said, but it's 20 past nine, we've got to win the game. I'll be there, don't worry about it. Anyway, 20 to 10, 20 to 11, no warn. Quarter to 11, no warn. 10 to 11, the screeching wheels of the BMW come in the car by.

40:35He's got a red ball in one hand and a fag on in the other. Give me two minutes, lads, it's me and Shaggy bowling from which end you want, Shaggs? I said, I don't know. I'll be fine with the cover for... Where have you been? He said, doesn't matter, I'll tell you later. You look in the scorebook, 37 overs, 7 for 50. There you go. He took, and he didn't sleep a wink all night. Yeah. But the next day...

40:54Phil Tufnell: What had he been doing? Visualising. He was in the nets. But the next day in the news of the world, there was a picture of him holding a plastic penis, shall we say. Oh, right. In a pair of playboy underpants. I've seen that picture. You were there.

41:11Michael Vaughan: No, I wasn't. Were you there, Tom? I wasn't there. First time. No, we got into the huddle after the game and he just went, easy game. And that's how he did it. But, I mean, the stories are just unbelievable. Yeah. And they're all probably true. Well, I know some of them are true, but...

41:27Phil Tufnell: I mean, you've had a history, haven't you? You'd had ACD Ingleby McKenzie. Yeah. Who used to turn up with his dancing shoes and a tuxedo on. He was captain. Here, Gower. Well, Gower wasn't captain, was he? No, he captained us in the final against Surrey, and that was finally in Surrey. Yeah. MCJ Nicholas. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Happy hams. Happy hams, yeah. Happy hams. Yeah, good fun.

41:50Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. Well, it was good fun, but it was, you know... When then Warnley was very big for... Which is a bit daft now, but he used to say, midnight's your time, after midnight's cricket time. So you're in bed before midnight. There's no curfew. You can stay up till two in the morning if you wanted to, but you didn't do well, you weren't playing the next game. It was quite disciplinarian. Not on the petty little things like you get phones on or this. I don't care what you do with your phone and stuff, it's up to you, but as long as you walk across that white line, you're fully committed. Yeah. Yeah.

42:19And I learnt a lot from him. It gave me a lot of belief.

42:25Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Yeah, I mean, he's got a stand down at... Yeah, he has, yeah. Is it the Aegeus now? What is it? Utiliter. Utiliter. You've got a... A nice little lounge, yeah. You've got a lounge. I was in on Friday night. I was in there on Friday night hosting a few people. Are you still involved at Hampshire? I think they've had a raffle and they pulled out my name for a lounge. So I've got a nice lounge named after me, which is lovely. Oh, no. Itches up and stuff. So I went up there on Friday night for the Hampshire-Surrey game. Liam Dawson played beautifully.

42:57Phil Tufnell: Yeah. And it's nice. I mean, it's a real honour. I mean, I played 21 years there. Got quite a few wickets and a few runs. And it was a great time. I miss it mad massively. and I struggled after cricket to adapt to that, not having it. Now, do you go and watch the team and get pleasure from watching the team? I do, yeah. I don't often go into the dressing room and stuff. I'll sit around the back of the ground, somewhere in the far corner over the way, just out of the way, and watch the cricket. And it also relaxes me with the other things that are going on in my life. Do you go with mates, with some pals?

43:28Sometimes I go by myself. All right. Sometimes I just go and sit down. I mean, I've got a business and that's going to be quite stressful. so to get away from me I was just going to sit and watch cricket for an hour the problems are still there when you go back but you can deal with them a bit better because you've thought things through a bit more Middlesex? How did you end up there? Middlesex I don't know well I was actually I retired from Hampshire I was 30 yeah 2000 got the send off the wave I was actually at Lancashire my last game was Old Trafford one day for the over game and I finished and something was nagging at me that didn't feel quite right I still had three or four years left in me I thought I did but I still wasn't anyway I got a phone call in a pub and it was Embers.

44:07She said, you finished playing cricket, what have you done that for? I said, well, no contract. He said, well, I'll give you a contract. And I thought, really? Anyway, the deal was quite good and I thought, Lords, for two or three years, how good would that be to finish at Lords the last two or three years of your career? And we agreed the deal and that was that. I mean, we went to, we won the 2020, the first season. That's right. We got the last ball against Kent. They chased 180 and they got them. We do 179 all out and then we went we went to the Sarans Stanford competition I was there

44:43How weird was that yeah, that was an interesting experience that was two weeks on the piss with three games of 2020 cricket But for a million pounds for a million. We lost every game

44:54Phil Tufnell: Just on that do you remember when it after it all finished and the West Indies had won it? They were interviewing these lads who got a million pounds each. That's right. And it was a Ponzi scheme and it all ended badly. They said, I'm going to... This lad's saying I'm going to give it to the village and the school and the cricket and I'm going to... Next one, I'm going to make sure that my mum and dad are sorted out and, you know, it's a lifetime-changing thing. Chris Gale. Yeah. So, Chris, what are you going to do with it? Spend it. LAUGHTER LAUGHTER

45:30Fantastic! That was a hell of a trip. Did you enjoy the captaincy? I did. It sort of happened because Ed Smith was captain and he stymied, to be fair, with John Embry. Then he played for the first month of the season, he got injured. Ed Joyce took over. Yes, Joyce. Oh, Ed Joyce. Didn't quite go well for Joyce. I think he was thinking about leaving at the time to go to Sussex. He was captain and his mind wasn't on the game, So they said to me, do you want to have a go at doing the captaincy? I said, yeah, why not? It's something I'd never done properly. I was always vice-captain to Warley at Hampshire, but did it for two or two years and thoroughly enjoyed it.

46:06Really enjoyed it. We brought on some good young players. Finney made his debut and stuff, and there was others that did well, and it was good. Enjoyed it. Lovely place, nice people, and the home of cricket.

46:17Phil Tufnell: Yeah. They've changed a bit, haven't they? I mean, they're the same problems that Lynx have. Yeah. I just don't see them going anywhere unless they get their own ground. I can't see the money that every county gets, they don't get it because they haven't got their own ground. They must be raising twice as much money as any other county has to. Good lunch. That was when the proper lunches were there.

46:36Sir Alastair Cook: Nancy. Nancy. Oh, she'd gone with you? No, she was there. Oh, yeah, Nancy. She'd have breakfast, walk in, bacon. Breakfast? I just had breakfast at home. Gippers. Unbelievable. You like Gippers, don't you?

46:47Michael Vaughan: What a place. Eels? Didn't you have an eel the other day? Yes, that was lovely. Eels that we have? We'll have eels when we go to Lourdes. Yeah, lovely. Jelly eels. Thursday. Jelly eels. No, no, it won't be Thursday, because this is coming after this week, if you know what I mean. You had some eels. You had some eels the other day. Had some lovely eels at Lourdes. Doing were marvellous. Tommy Banks, fantastic restaurant. I mean, Warnie was also a lovely bloke. Really kind, very caring. Very. If you're a friend of his, you're a friend for life. Very. Absolutely. He'd do anything for you. But I had my problem diagnosed.

47:15He rang me up. He said, well, we'll get through it, mate. Not, you'll get through it. He said, we'll get through it, meaning he was going to help. Amazing.

47:22Michael Vaughan: Bushyag, you've brought us on to that. You've been very open about your journey with Parkinson's. Yeah. When was it when you found out? I sort of thought something wasn't right when I was still at Middlesex. In my last season, I started to not feel it properly, the ball in my hand. I've always been like a touch field ball. If I could feel the ball comfortable in my hand, it would sit there and it would come out sometimes all right. and I was starting to lose the feeling a bit in my fingers and then I struggled to do the buttons up and my laces were getting a bit of a problem and I thought something doesn't feel right here.

47:56So I was going to get some tests done and of course it takes forever to get seen and tests properly done and a load of electrolysis, I think they're called the pads they put on you and you were tested for your reaction time and some of them weren't very good. So they said, anyway, did x-rays and stuff and it showed I had a wasting vertebrae in my neck and they thought it might have been that, pushing down on my nervous system, making my shakes. I was having the shakes and stuff, which I still get a bit off. And I thought, I don't think it's sad. But they did the operation and after six weeks, it hadn't really got any better.

48:29And then I was at work during the daytime early one morning and I fell down the stairs, top to bottom. And I was found by one of the members of staff about half past seven in the morning. And I didn't know anything about it. And next time I knew I was in the back of an ambulance, been taken down to Slampson General Hospital for tests. I stayed in the hospital for a week, still couldn't find out what it was. And then about seven weeks, eight weeks later, just before I was 50, I got a letter from the NHS saying I had Parkinson's. Early onset Parkinson's, they called it, just from a letter.

49:04Michael Vaughan: So you didn't even get a call from a doctor? No. No call from a doctor, no call from a specialist, no call from anyone. Just said, Mr. Joodle, you'll be unfortunately found early onset Parkinson's. someone will be in touch in the next six months to discuss your next move. What? A, I was devastated. You think, is that the end of me? What's the next step? Am I going to be in a wheelchair? When am I going to walk? What is it? What is Parkinson's? And it was just horrible. And then we got hit by COVID. So I couldn't get treatment, couldn't get my tablets, couldn't get treatment, and that was horrific.

49:35That was the time when I thought, I've had enough. I was going to... Well, I don't think I didn't, but it was horrible. Horrible time. It just changes your...

49:44Michael Vaughan: What got you through that? PCA were very good. Friends. This man brings me a bit. Stays in touch with me. Robin Smith was amazing. Mourney was great. Hampshire were brilliant. Middlesex. Everyone was fantastic. Because you just get stuck on your own and you feel lonely and you feel, why has it happened to me? Why can't I walk properly? Why am I shuffling? why am I, I can't pick anything, I couldn't pick the kids up because they were too heavy for me to hold. And it was just shocking, just shocking. A lot of it's the initial shock, which you think, why has it happened to me? Why have I got it? But there's no history in the family, not hereditary.

50:27Sir Alastair Cook: And you're involved in the charity now, aren't you? Yeah, Cure Parkinson's. It's Cure Parkinson's that I do a lot of work for. And we've done, as you know, you've come down and spoken a couple of dinners and it's just doing my bit to see I'm trying to make a difference and helping them to discover if we can... There's 166 ,000 people in the UK with Parkinson's and it's something like 40 million quid a year to fund it that we need to find and that's not coming out of the government's pocket. It's going elsewhere, shall we say. And yeah, it's not good for them. When it's a bad day and a bad night, it's horrible.

51:01So is there a cure for Parkinson's? No. No cure. And that's the bit of one day I'll be in a wheelchair and that'll be... After that it's just, I mean, Mike Adams, Jimmy Adams from Hampshire, his father Mike Adams had it really bad. If you get it bad, it's horrible. The pain is just, I mean, nights I just don't sleep. Not just nights, but weeks sometimes. You can go two or three weeks without, we're getting on and off sleeps. I'm trying to run a business and I can't really fall asleep in the boardroom. It doesn't go down very well. But yeah, it's the pain that takes me. when I was in the fact it's out of my family.

51:34I've got a 21-year-old son who's grown up with his dad in problems, so he sees me upset and, yeah, it's not nice. But if you soldier on, you've got to keep fighting. You do indeed, sure. Can't give in. You really, really do.

51:46Michael Vaughan: What is it that... So what does a day-to-day life look like for you? The last two months has been much better. I've had my tablets tweaked a little bit. I take something called Cinemet Plus, which I take five times a day, two lots of them, painkillers when I need them and then about 10 to 12 tablets at night so it's 26 pad tablets a day just to keep relatively normal and I've been fine the last two or three weeks actually if you sleep like everything when you've got problems or if you're sleeping you wake up you're like you're like that oh it's great and I feel fine if you don't wake up well then you think how am I gonna get through today and again it's a mindset which being in sport does help you think come on gig ass in gear don't show you're in pain and if I walk into which helps me a bit as well, because a lot of it's about sporting activities.

52:34If I sit still and stop for longer than a period of time, like on a train... I mean, I played in the Mike Tindall Golf Day last weekend and Ryan Sidebottom and my good friend and my Martin Wenlocker, you know very well, I got stuck in... I couldn't move. I couldn't get out of the chair. I said, Martin, I can't move. He said, well, don't worry, we'll sort you out. So, for 15 minutes, I still couldn't move. And Ryan Sidebottom lifted me out of a solid chair into a chair with wheels on and wheeled me through reception to go to my room to lift me up and put me in bed. The next morning I was fine because I got the tablets inside of me, but it's just unpredictable, very unpredictable.

53:12It's a horrible thing. But you've always got a smile on your face, Shaggy. Well, I think what choice you got, you can either give in, which I never do, or just keep going. You keep going until it gets to a point where you can't do anything else about it. I mean, you've still got that twinkle of humour as well about it, haven't you?

53:30Michael Vaughan: Yeah, I think... I mean, you mentioned in the green room a story about going to the... If I go to the wee now, it can develop into something else because my hands shake so much. LAUGHTER It doesn't happen very often. It takes a while. I'm in the toilet 15 minutes. That's the way it is. We're all right behind you. I know, it's been brilliant. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Right, let's finish with a bit of... We've got community questions to come. On the modern day England team, Baz McCullum and the crew, happy that they've stayed on? Yeah, I think it would have been wrong to get rid of them after the Ashes.

54:12I mean, that Australian team were still a very good side. Their bowling unit was much better than ours, I felt. But the way that we played, we just got to adapt to the situation a bit better than we do at the moment, I think. On the spinners, on the spinners, have you... I don't really see enough of them. I don't see anyone that stands out. But they've got themselves in a bit of a muddle, haven't they? But they took the show with Bashir, who's played more test matches than he's played first-class cricket. I think he just needs two years in county cricket. Yeah, he does. Learn his style, learn his game.

54:41Michael Vaughan: I was staggered that way. He's clearly done all right at Derby, but it's only the start of the season. He's clearly got a skill, he can bowl. He can bowl. I was thinking, why have you brought him back into the kitchen? Just allow him to play for Derby. Just get him 50 wickets this year. He probably missed a couple of games. They've got a Bangladesh next year. Take him on that trip. Not a problem. Don't throw him straight back in. No, it's just... I mean, it's expecting too much of a young lad who's learning his game. And I don't think I was a better bowler until I was about 30, 31. Takes time, doesn't it?

55:14Michael Vaughan: It does take time. Mason Crane, look at Mason now. Absolutely, he's starting to come good. Yeah, because he's been believed in and he's he's he's he's playing and he's landing it properly I think he's a good good little creator. Do you think in the UK? Do you think we still don't quite understand how to manage spinners the morning said to me? You got to understand what do you got to understand? Captaining a spinner is different to captain someone else quick boy. You can say bowler bouncer and you'll do it Spin boy you get you got work people out the worst thing ever in test in cricket before lunch haven't over see if it spins what an over

55:48Sir Alastair Cook: did you used to do that never tough as never you do it because you might get a wicket because you haven't got a ball in your hand you can't get a wicket but if you're not yeah I find that bizarre come and see if it spins you've got an over for lunch page 25 I didn't like it as a batter I didn't like it as a batter I got through the hour and 59 and something just unknown

56:13Michael Vaughan: I thought change your pace just yeah you've got a change of all of an attacking field Yeah, primarily not going to allow you just to not ones you'd always get a boundary away I'm gonna I love to find our stats for last

56:30Michael Vaughan: Shaggy community questions the first one name as the top five cricketers That you've played with Oh, bloody.

56:41Phil Tufnell: Warren, Marshall. Warren, Marshall. It's an easy two. Bloody hell. MCJ? Smith? Robin Smith. Yeah. Wazim Akram. Even though he had one year at Hampshire, he was still Wazim Akram.

56:56Michael Vaughan: 60 this week. You've got some names here, haven't you? 60 this week. Marshall, Warren, Robin Smith, Akram. Who's your fifth? Hayden's not far off. Hayden. Max Hayden. Oh!

57:07Sir Alastair Cook: That's a big hour.

57:09Michael Vaughan: That's a big fight. I'll have a bit of fun. Let's name your 11. You've got a few here. Who's opening your batting? Hayden and... Hayden and... Saywag.

57:20Sir Alastair Cook: Saywag? You played with Middlesex? Oh, played with? Yeah, yeah. Oh, sorry. Oh, I was going to say that. Paul Cherry? What about Paul Cherry? Hayden and... If it's an opening batter, I'm going to go with... Chris Smith. Chris Smith? Yeah. I averaged 48 in the days of the old nipping around. Yeah, Chris Smith. Number three. Gower. Gower, three. Four. Judge. The Judge. Five. God rest his parents. Five. Peterson. Kevin Peterson. He won bad. Fred. Six, Freddie. Keeper. Gilchrist. Play with Gil. Middlesex. What's the team this is? I've just thought of another opening batter instead of Chris Smith. I'm sorry, Kippy, I'm seeing him next week when he comes over for Robin's memorial.

58:10David Warner. Oh, Middlesex.

58:14Michael Vaughan: You've got Hayden Warner, Gower Smith, Peterson, Flintsoff, Gilchrist, Warner, eight. Warner, eight, yeah. Nine? Marshall at nine. Akram. Akram at ten. Akram at eight, Warner nine, those two can... We need one more. You need one more. Got to be Yudel, isn't it? You're in. Absolutely. Three and two, absolutely. I need three, yeah. Eleven, it would be eleven. You can play, definitely. You can have one more seamer in the squad. One more seamer in case we just need one spinner. One more seamer. Do you play with Jimmy? Sorry, Jimmy... Do you play with Jimmy? Jimmy Hanson, Test match, yeah. Jimmy!

58:58What a squad! Not a bad team, mate. Jim, you're in the 12. I'm happy to run the drinks out and just do whatever they want. On a spinning wicket, I might play. On a seamer, you play, Jimmy. That's a team.

59:10Michael Vaughan: Right, here we go. We've got a little bit of fun for us all here. Not many sides are beating that. No, no. Actually, we need like a... That could be a leaderboard. We should do that occasionally. I guess, yeah, pick the best team. That you've played with. That you've played with.

59:24Phil Tufnell: Best team. That'll take some heat.

59:28Michael Vaughan: Right, come on, all of us involved in this. what are the top five most special weeks of sport in England? So it could be Wimbledon, Lords Test, Silverstone, World Darts. Yeah, you can throw the Ryder Cup when it's in England. Masters. Ali Pali. In England. Derby coming up. Derby coming up at Ascot. So top five. What is the number? It's got to be a World Cup final, hasn't it? Football World Cup. No? No? Once a year, though. Well, it just says, look, special weeks of sport. Well, Silverstone's the same weekend as Wimbledon, is it? I'm not having Wimbledon. It's up there. No, but as in... No, it's nice.

1:00:06Michael Vaughan: It's in the top five. I'm not having it. But it's not the same weekend as Silverstone, Wimbledon. Isn't it three on the same weekend? What about the play-off cup final? I like that. £120 million on Monday. Especially when Southampton aren't there. They're getting the binoculars out. It's just... Ali Pally. He's kept his job this morning, hasn't he? Ali Pally. He's a good manager. He's a good manager. Do you feel I think when the Masters got not the biggest golf fan But when the Masters comes on in April everyone's like it was the summer starts I'm having the Masters over Wimbledon. I'm having oh crikey.

1:00:39Michael Vaughan: I'm having the open Yeah, yeah, yeah Masters over Wimbledon English open masters over wind English open over Wimbledon Yeah, I'll go with that. I think Wimbledon is bigger than the open is it? She's not Can we decide upon this please? We can't, we won't. I'm going to mark. Fifth, what's in fifth place? We'll start at number one. What's number one? Lord's Suspatch. Nowhere near. No, fifth. No. Yeah, we have five. We're talking like we're cricket, so we've got to understand that the outside world aren't all us. I tell you what would be good fun next year, Millwall West Ham. LAUGHTER Harry like that.

1:01:17Michael Vaughan: Millwall West Ham, yeah, I'll be watching that, Craig. That's the first game ever to be kicking off at 7am. Don't go straight from the pub at 7am. Lord's Test will be fifth. Grand National? Grand National. I mean, we should get the TV viewing figures. Ali Pally's good. Do you reckon Ali Pally gets... Silverson's huge.

1:01:39Phil Tufnell: You should have one going the other way around. But you wanted a cow or something, didn't you? A horse and cart coming round as well. You'd get past that. Yeah.

1:01:48Sir Alastair Cook: Some bumps in the road. Come on, sleeping police.

1:01:52Michael Vaughan: So what we're saying is number one. Traffic car, number one. What is... I was in Port... Lando Norris was in Port... What about the Ryder Cup? Good golfer. Ryder Cup. Yeah, Ryder Cup. But it's not in England. What we're talking... Let's go. FA Cup final. FA Cup final. Not if we're not. It used to be. We're talking like annual sporting occasions. Event. Which happens every year in England. In England. So Masters ain't in England? No, it's not. So we're not having that. Bind. So the Open is, Wimbledon is, Silverstone is, Lord's Test match, Ali Pali, FA Cup FA Cup final. That's a good one. The playoff finals.

1:02:33Michael Vaughan: Championship playoff final to get to the Premier League. Twickenham. For what? Rugby. Six Nations. Yes. Right, OK. It's a Six Nations. South Africa, New Zealand. Let's go England versus Scotland at Twickenham. Is that bigger... No. ..than a Lord's Test? No. No. Isn't it? I don't think so. I'm just saying. We're in cricket. Well, it's five days a Lord's Test, isn't it?

1:03:00Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah.

1:03:01Michael Vaughan: But what's bigger? Ash is Lord's Test. If you go down to your portions down in London, you say to them, right, you can only go for one day. Yeah. And you're either going for Twickenham or you're going to Lord's. What are your hobnobbs going to choose? Twickers. Lourdes. Twickers. Are they?

1:03:21Phil Tufnell: Twickers.

1:03:21Sir Alastair Cook: More champagne. You can drink more champagne. Longer, longer, longer.

1:03:26Phil Tufnell: All I'm saying is that in our local pubs in the village... York. ..they talk about rugby. The rugger? Rugby. They don't talk cricket, they talk rugby.

1:03:36Michael Vaughan: So you reckon Twickers?

1:03:38Phil Tufnell: Twickers. And it's an event. They check out... There's a bus goes... I reckon Formula One, Wimbledon, Lourdes.

1:03:43Michael Vaughan: Formula One. Wimbledon? I actually think Wimbledon's probably the biggest sport in the weekend. The Wimbledon final, it's big, innit? You're right, it's big. It's a big... The final's big. Huge. It is big. It's what it's worth. All right, then. All right, then. How big is it?

1:03:55Phil Tufnell: Who won it this year? Oh, no idea. ALKATRAS Alcatraz. Alcatraz? Alcatraz? What's it called? Carlos. Who's the Wimbledon champion? Carlos, innit? Oh, yeah. Oh, no, no, no.

1:04:07Michael Vaughan: Young kid. Tevez. Carlos Alcaraz. Alcaraz, innit? Is that...

1:04:11Phil Tufnell: I can't pronounce it. It's that big. He won it. It's that big, no big, no big.

1:04:15Michael Vaughan: What's the other one, Colin? He's just got injured in France. Sinner. He didn't win it. He didn't win it. Or did he get knocked out in France? No, he got knocked out. Who won Ali Pali?

1:04:25Phil Tufnell: Lutli. There you go, Lutli, Lutli, Lutli. Oh, come on. We did everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you don't know who won. Sinner won Wimbledon last year. You don't know who won the Wimbledon final. Did he?

1:04:32Michael Vaughan: Yeah, Sinner.

1:04:33Phil Tufnell: So it can't be massive, mate, because we don't know. There you go. But we know the Ali Pali winner. That's it. Ali Pali, number one. More people watch women. Who won the Grand National?

1:04:41Michael Vaughan: I'm going to the FA Cup final. FA Cup final. Who won the FA Cup? Why did you ask this? Who won the FA Cup? City. Beat Chelsea, 1-0. Semenyo, Bakil. Semenyo, 1-0. It's a poor question. Absolutely. It's a poor question, isn't it? Yeah, poor. What do you mean it's a poor question? It's on here. Who asked it? Who asked it? Who asked it?

1:05:04Phil Tufnell: Kevin. Oh, Keith. He's not Kevin from South Africa, is he? No, no.

1:05:12Michael Vaughan: Tyndall. From the Palace. What about Royal Ascot? Royal Ascot.

1:05:21Phil Tufnell: Royal Ascot. Oh, yeah, Lester Piggott. Yeah. Yeah, Willie Carson.

1:05:25Michael Vaughan: The boat race. What about the boat? Can I just say, that is the biggest load of bollocks that I've ever seen in the boat race. What, really? Why do we do it? Well, we don't. Traditionally. I don't do it, do you? Have you been there? No, it's absolute garbage. No, I haven't been there. I'd rather see a jet ski race. Power boats. It can't be. Power. It's good, is that? That boat race is good.

1:05:47Phil Tufnell: It's good, is that boat race? The pubs are all open along the river, aren't they? Oxford and Cambridge. Right, who won it this year? I have no idea, but they train. Not the train line. Oh, absolutely.

1:05:58Michael Vaughan: Who won it, though? You don't know.

1:05:59Phil Tufnell: Either Oxford or Cambridge. Cambridge.

1:06:02Michael Vaughan: No, they didn't.

1:06:03Phil Tufnell: Who won it? Cambridge. Cambridge won the 50-50. You come up on the inside where the waves are. They sunk once, didn't they? They sunk waves. All right, I'll tell you honestly,

1:06:13Michael Vaughan: is rowing the easiest sport to get good at? No. Why not? It's difficult. No, it's hard work physically. Is it the easiest? So you go and see someone at six foot... Are you saying, is it a school-based sport? And we go to that person and go, right, we've got two years to train. Walking.

1:06:29Sir Alastair Cook: It's not a sport. Of course it is! What the... How do they do the walk? How random. Where have we gone to? Where have we gone to? You've got to keep your heels. Right, how do they do it? You've got to keep your heels on the floor. There used to be a heel, isn't it? Heels! Yeah, so it's...

1:06:46Michael Vaughan: Oh, that face on, I hope. But I'm saying, Rowan, right? That's quicker than you, right? We're going to our local booter and we see someone that's 25, massive, jamming a pint and we go, Right, we've got two years, we're going to train you. You'll get further up in rowing. Do you think we could train that person? You'll get further up in rowing than you would in a lot of other sports. So it's the easiest sport to get good at? Darts. No, darts is... How are you with the darts, Shaq? I'm fucking all over the place. No crowd, get out of the way. There's the board. Oh, sorry, sorry. Sorry in the corner, sorry.

1:07:21Michael Vaughan: Right, we're going to finish with this one, right? In honour of the World Cup, which is starting on June 11th, Is that right? Kieran's going. Kieran's going. New York. Who is Kieran? Wembley watching Salford. Who is Kieran? He was one of the 5 ,500 fans. He was in a posh box. In honour of the World Cup, what is more difficult? A goalkeeper having to take a penalty in a shootout or a number 11 opening the batting as a night watchman? So I've just been sick. You've done it. What's harder? A goalie saying, right, I'm taking the penalty. Oh, come on. Or Night Watchman going out. What do you mean?

1:07:59Sir Alastair Cook: Well, just a goalie. Go on, put your boot through it, man. Keep your head over the ball. Night Watchman's father.

1:08:04Michael Vaughan: Head over the ball and lace it.

1:08:05Sir Alastair Cook: Night Watchman against... Can't get hurt, can you, as a keeper, taking a penalty? Night Watchman against Malcolm Marshall. Good luck. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. Where's he back around here, Bishop? Brett Lee. Or just boot a ball. Or just boot a ball. Mick Stanley. Mick Stanley.

1:08:19Michael Vaughan: Rocket, yeah. Ooh, Mick Stanley. Saw a bit of him the other day. Yeah, you liked him, mate. All good. All good. Who's he playing for? Lank. Lanks. Lanks what? Yeah. Shag, thanks. Brilliant. Pleasure. Very good. Thank you. Really good.

1:08:33Phil Tufnell: Thank you, everybody. Brilliant.

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