Sir Geoffrey Boycott: England’s Greatest Opener? Ashes & Bazball | Stick to Cricket EP 13

0:00Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. Losing weight can feel like a roller coaster, full of ups, downs, and being thrown for loops, like when someone brings donuts into the office or your kids' dino nuggets start giving you that look again. That's why there's Noom. They combine GLP-1s to quiet the food noise with healthy habits that help you keep it quiet, even if you get off the meds. Their program is designed to make weight loss a smooth ride, helping you understand what drives you, so you can build better habits to not just lose weight, but keep it off.

0:39Noom. Lose for keeps. Get started at Noom.com. Not all customers will clinically qualify for medications. Individual results may vary. Could AI help you do more of what you love? Workday is the AI platform for HR and finance that actually knows your business. We help you handle the have-to-dos so you can focus on the can't-wait-to-dos. It's a new Workday. Hi, I'm Jack Ravici, Kramer, host of The Best One Yet. At T-Boy, we're always talking about small decisions that can have an outsized impact. One of the simplest is staying hydrated. Whether I'm traveling, getting a workout in, or heading into a busy day, I keep Liquid IV on hand.

1:17It's clinically demonstrated to hydrate faster than water alone and contains three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients. It's an easy addition to your daily routine and helps support hydration when you need it most. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

1:38Michael Vaughan: You're just on the end, Jeffrey. This is me. There you go, Jeffrey. Jeffrey, I got you some boots in the corner. Jeffrey. There you go. They're your old boots.

1:50Phil Tufnell: They'll be winnits, then. Winnits? They'll be winnits. I bet they're winnits. Canvas boots. I had a pair of winnits. Yeah, I did.

1:58Sir Alastair Cook: They was all right. Winnits.

2:00Phil Tufnell: Yeah, they were good. Geoffrey will have had a pair of winnits right in the beginning. What were those you got from Northampton? Masons, weren't they? No. They're masons?

2:10Sir Alastair Cook: Grenson. Something like that. They were very good. Yeah. No soul on them. What are you called? They're like wearing ice cream. it was very good whiting's whiting whiting had some of them yeah he made

2:23Phil Tufnell: him you sent a profile of your fault and then he would be all the ball is Adam all the old quick ball is you know they all might to measure yeah yeah whiting and we had a wide for a fin for or because that's it they do that now don't they Northampton Cricket Club cobblers it they take the shoe off that's the Oh, that's right, shoe army. They all take the shoe off. I saw that at the Oval. No offense, isn't it? He's good for them, you know, Lehman. Oh, Lehman's fantastic. Yeah. Geoffrey. What? Darren Lehman. I mean, you're a bloody good player. No, better than that. A fabulous player for us. Right, but from his coaching viewpoint, he's gone out to Northampton and they're fine.

3:04Phil Tufnell: Absolutely fine. He's a good man. He is. We had him at Yorkshire and after me, but I got to know him well. Top player. and dead straight. Absolutely straight with everybody. It's what you want sometimes. All this flannel in the dressing room, oh, well, bad looking and all that. It's a load of bollocks, isn't it? You either play good or you play bad. Tell it straight. Now, if you don't improve, we're not going to win. Simple. So, on that score, go back to when you played and you had that dressing room of Illingworth and Close in particular. Tell us about that dressing room, Illingworth and Close.

3:40Phil Tufnell: Some big egos in that dress red

3:50Players used to Used to pop their head around the dressing room door and think we were arguing and we were a good side We won championships. I mean when we had sort of open discussion For instance, we had a poor morning then people would get stuck into friends, say, you're Bob, you know, with some strong words. And he'd probably been out, like, you know, birding or something. He's out a lot.

4:18Sir Alastair Cook: What, twitching? Twitch watching. He was watching. And so they'd give him some okey pokey. Oh, yeah, they would. And there was all Ellen and everything. And then he'd usually have a sleep. Always put the sweaters down. That's right and got his head down for sleep when people went for lunch And they have ten minutes. Yeah lunch. They had a pot of tea and ham sandwich two or three bites of the ham sandwich That's all and the tea but it never ate much and then they wake up after ten minutes Somebody slammed the door coming in after lunch and play out with them and all of us have choice words and then we had a Discussion about what we do afterwards, who's going to bowl?

5:03What are you going to bowl? And that's when there was a free-for-all until Closie suddenly said, right, that's it. Stood up. This is what we'll do. Then everybody showed up and just followed him. Because although we had a full discussion, people got at each other, when Closie's captain said, this is what we do, everybody followed. And that was the idea of a team. He makes the final decision and he might take on board something he'd said But he would make the final decision after that you sure open your fallen

5:37Michael Vaughan: Can we just look at the attire? Immaculate. This is immaculate Jeff. We've had some guests on that chair, but look at this You've got a tie on your blazer.

5:45Phil Tufnell: Look at his tie. What tie is that? It's the England tie. What's the proper England tie? I've got one of those. You haven't got one of them. No, I haven't.

5:52Sir Alastair Cook: ODI 1. ODI 1. What is that? Is that the first ever one-day game? we didn't know it was going to be an international it's that rained off match in Melbourne test match fully rained off so he played a one day international well do you play we all we all had to play we we kept turning up in Melbourne kept raining it's absolutely saturated the outfield pitches under covers rained and rain and those days there was no television money it was all gate money so the whole tour depended on gate money is this 71 hmm yeah and so the Australian board above me pleaded with the English board I think will be Alan was out there making the decision so that could we have an extra test match so Raymond must have been captain yeah revenue he wasn't asked about it or anything and suddenly we got this one day yeah the picture being covered you can imagine for like five days chucking down with rain we were all going on runs around that near the hilton hotel outside the ground trying to keep fit we were playing uh real tennis you know that game royal tennis they have a one at lord's colin cowdrey taught me how to play we had some fun with that and knocking the indoor school nobody go outside it kept tippling down and then suddenly we got to play this one day and when they took the covers off You can imagine, it's green and juicy.

7:22And 40 ,000 turned up. Just like that over there. 40 ,000. So you got the money, yeah. Got some money, anyhow. And then they conned our hierarchy into playing our next test match on top. Fitted another one in, come back later on and play in Melbourne. So you played six tests?

7:41Phil Tufnell: Seven. Seven? Seven tests. Well, when I went in 74, we played six. Seven. Six tests. and before we played the first test, we played every state.

7:51Sir Alastair Cook: Did you get the boat over there? Was that still getting the boat over there? No, it just got... Sorry. Not that at all. Oh, it's quick, isn't it? Ah!

8:04Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. So just hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

8:16If I bawled at you with an orange, you've still not got courage, because you're frightened to death. Steady now, steady, steady. See how I turned away? Nah. I got him out twice. No. No way.

8:27Michael Vaughan: No way, boys, tell me that's a lie. They got it into their head that they're entertainers, that are Harlan rope trotters. They're not. Go on then, Bumble, who would you rather have? Jeff or Rooty?

8:38Sir Alastair Cook: Oh! Oh!

8:40Phil Tufnell: That kid, I can soon see how he became a genius. He's one of the best commentators I've ever heard. And you binned him. He didn't bin it, did he? I'm just in top of the list. If he don't improve, he'll be gone, you think. Sorry, Reuben, but you might be gone.

9:05Michael Vaughan: so what was your so the England side will go to Australia well they go to New Zealand first but if it was just a test tour this winter I'm guessing they'd arrive in Perth on about November the 8th they start on the 21st say November the 8th 10th and they'll be out of Sydney on the 8th of Jan date to jump so you're looking at a two-month tour just to recollect when you went to Australia Four months. Four months. My first tour to Australia was in 65, 66. We did over five months. Because we did Australia and New Zealand. We had to go to New Zealand and play three test matches. That's it. We did. That was one of the worst bits I've been on with England.

9:48Because we stripped in then was in New Zealand, there were cricket grounds, But you stripped in the rugby dressing room they were Jewel. Yeah, and they were terrible like being in a dungeon you couldn't see the play had to go outside to look Pictures weren't great at all. I mean everything's got miles better than but when you were knackered after playing five tests in Australia And all the state matches and used to play Used to play an upcountry one day. That's it then a day off and then the four-day state match. Yeah Yeah, so you had a one day on the state. Yeah, and you played five tests lying everywhere You go flying everywhere and the tests and when we played and besides the states We'd have an odd match against the president's 11 or something So we always had matches between the tests except for the Christmas New Year.

10:43Yeah, that's fine It was a long tour and then they shipped you off to New Zealand for a month another month and then we hadn't finished there, we had to come home through Hong Kong and play Hong Kong. I remember.

10:55Michael Vaughan: I bet that was nice, though. Good spot, Hong Kong. Lovely, I got 100 at Kowloon.

11:01Phil Tufnell: In 65... Best bit of the tour. On that 65-66, would you be wearing spectacles at that time? Yes. Not them other things, Blances.

11:13Michael Vaughan: Kieran. Oh, I had spectacles. Hey, talking about spectacles. Kieran, come in here, Kieran. Look at these, Geoffrey. What do you reckon to these? This is Kieran cam. This is Kieran cam. So these these these have got cameras in Hello, I'm gonna put them on so you can film with those on Jeffrey you want to give a few of these to Man United forwards Can't find the goals What do you make of the new striker they've signed Jeffrey? It's only any good if he gets goals. Yeah, I see job Sisko you was about yeah, yeah your job however you do it you make runs his job is make run doesn't matter how Your job if you're a bowler take wickets I don't want to know that you miss the bat or your ball.

11:54Well get wickets. That's the only way you can win. I Remember Brian Clough Big friend of mine close friend and he used to take me for I used to go to his football matches Forrest or Derby and then after the match I'd go in his office Coffee yeah, and then when he finished all his jobs would go home and he cooked dinner I've seen you on the cooking show is like you was a good cook. They cook dinner for Barbara and I And he was told me about their left full back He kept racing up the wing you know how they do now the light yeah wingers wing back over laughing. He said you mind I pay you to stop that winger scoring.

12:33That's your first job Occasionally you can run up the wing, but if you want to keep doing that I'll give you a number 11 shirt Your job was to stop the winger scoring he said to the two centre-backs your job stop them scoring and it's quite simple simple he had a simple way of playing he made runs it's all that matters

12:54Sir Alastair Cook: and make lots of them so you was over there Geoff for all this time in Australia and New Zealand I mean the boys I think they've got one warm up game against each other the Lions are there

13:05Michael Vaughan: so England are taking a Lions squad that'll be there a bit earlier and a few bowlers that are going to arrive a bit earlier Madness and then they're going to play I think it's a three day game at the WACA yes which would turn into a 12 a side 40 yeah yeah we always we usually arrived in Perth and played two matches there two state matches to country before we moved on to the other part I mean that's only one we arrived in Adelaide that's where we started lovely nets Adelaide nice ground very good and we're just moving on to the stage we played in South Australia one there in the state then we went up to Victoria up country then the state Sydney up country and a state match Brisbane up country and a state match in Queensland with four one-day matches four four-day matches before we played the first test we were same 74 exactly we went to Perth we played Western Australia and up country again and then we played the test match and everybody got chance to bat bowl get into some sort of form and then rhythm when one day we won the Ashes.

14:12Sir Alastair Cook: That might be a little bit too much now, perhaps, but you definitely think there should be a couple of them.

14:16Michael Vaughan: Well, they're in New Zealand, so I think November 3rd, playing whiteboard cricket, and then they'll arrive in Perth a few days out.

14:23Sir Alastair Cook: I think I played all them games as well, and I went there. Both times I went there, we played up countries and Lila Kill and all that.

14:32Phil Tufnell: First of all, it's Lila Kill, isn't it? It's like a charity. But we played all the States. Dennis Lilley used to charge in and bowl you out.

14:39Sir Alastair Cook: Doug Walters got four for 34 again. He was about 65. Hey, I'll tell you what, I got him out twice. No way.

14:50Phil Tufnell: No way. Boys, tell me that's a lie. I mean, we can Google it.

14:55Sir Alastair Cook: He's bowling his little step and fetches.

14:58Phil Tufnell: He must have had 100 by then. He had, he had 100 once. Don't tell me you got him out early. I got him out fairly early. No, you didn't. I was 49. 49. That was fairly early. A lollipop ball. He refused to go. He didn't walk. No, well, he didn't walk anyway. I always walked. Bollocks. Once the umpire put his finger up. So he refused to go because Jeff Puller was asleep. And he says, I'm not going. He hasn't touched it with his hands yet. He caught it in the cheeks of his arse. It were a shocking ball. He's gone to cut it, got an edge. Slip's gone like that to get out of the way and it's trapped in his legs there and he produced it like that.

15:45Phil Tufnell: He said, I'm not going to have touched it with his hands. He's got a major on fire. Well, Jeff, that is out. 132, 139. Old Trafford, Headley. Old Trafford. Old Trafford. And then from your Yorkshire perspective, we capped in Yorkshire and Lancashire in the final game of Bramall Lane. Final cricket match at Bramall Lane.

16:07Michael Vaughan: It should still be a cricket ground, that.

16:11Phil Tufnell: Oh, that's your other lot in the Sheffield United.

16:14Michael Vaughan: I used to practice in the Indoor Nets there.

16:16Phil Tufnell: Yeah.

16:17Michael Vaughan: When I was probably a nine, ten-year-old. The Nets were the top of the car park.

16:21Phil Tufnell: But, you know, we haven't touched on it. So three-day... It's a straight shape. On uncovered pitches. Oh, that hell is it? So uncovered pitches were brilliant for technique, Developing technique and sometimes it were a lottery they did absolutely nothing Other times there'd be like a boil That he'd have come on for an hour and you've got to make use of that hour, you know with either your spinner or your quickie And then he'll stop completely sometimes you put a roller on it and it was nice Yeah, but it developed technique. How am I right? How did develop technique? He was go wet and you just bowling just well be the top and ask him I I Think Dickie bird made the best comment I heard about that.

17:03He said Figures we have bowling and batting In all areas they should have stopped them when they Stopped uncovered pitches and went on to cover pitches. Yeah, totally different.

17:16Phil Tufnell: Yeah You play on flat pitches now all the time big bats It's much easier. Yeah, when you play don't go pictures It was spicy interesting You weren't sure what you're gonna get I agree.

17:33Sir Alastair Cook: I can't imagine with this long. It seemed Turn sometimes you've got a good pitch flat you can back make hundreds But if it turned Sometimes it turned and didn't jump so you had to learn to go with the spin play with it not now All they seem to do is sweep and reverse sweep or some funky shot instead of going with the spin and used to use your hands a lot more on your your knee and go with the spin. You didn't learn that. Then the ball swung a lot more in the atmosphere so you had to learn to watch it, watch it. You're coming in to play it but you're not playing it You're waiting late. Hardest thing to do is to see it early, but to wait and play it late.

18:23Hardest thing to do. You should know that. You've opened innings enough. When it swings, you can't afford to go too early or else you're on the wrong line, aren't you, by the time it swings. I played on flat wickets, that's all right.

18:33Michael Vaughan: Hey, Phil. Geoff, I don't know if you watch this show, but our resident batting expert, you would think... Phil, can you just get your bat for me? Get your bat. No, no. We've got one of the greatest technicians that's ever played the game. I don't know. He likes his bats. Are they your bats, by the way, Geoffrey? I've seen him bat. Yeah. And quite not for long. Boys, are you all right? Can you just give our resident batting expert a few tips on the basics of how to bat? No, I would waste my talent on him. Now, come on. So what is the most important thing for a young player? And he's obviously not young, but he's our resident expert.

19:10Michael Vaughan: He's not side on, for instance. There's one ingredient above all. he's never had it and he can't find it it's courage

19:19Sir Alastair Cook: imagine you've given me some courage you've given him some

19:24Michael Vaughan: what's next if I bowl at you with an orange you've still not got courage because you're frightened to death you're not far wrong if I'd have been your captain I'd have declared before letting you back he'd have been happy with an orange one bowl of orange Steady, Jeff.

19:43Sir Alastair Cook: Steady. Steady now. Steady. LAUGHTER See how I turned away?

19:47Michael Vaughan: Boys, get the bat in your hand. Boys, get the bat in your hand. Here, get the bat. I'm wasted on you. No, Geoffrey, do us a favour. Get that bat in your hand.

19:54Sir Alastair Cook: You're bowling at me would have been interesting. What was your trigger, Geoff? Did you have a trigger? Get back in your stance. He did. I know what his trigger was.

20:03Michael Vaughan: Jesus Christ. Go on, get in your stance, Geoffrey. Give us the basics of what you require. Yes. The most important of all when you're batting, that matter if you're Viv Richards, great player, whoever you are, judgment of length. Yep. If you judge the length well, then you play forward or back to the length and you never get in trouble. You get forward when you should be back and say a bouncy pitch like Perth used to be, you're going to get hit in the throat. You stay back when a ball's a keeper and lower bit, you're going to get done LBW. Pick the length. then the line like off stump and around I call that the you know the corridor of uncertainty but length that's where Viv was brilliant at picked length so quick and it's not just the eyes take Bradman Bradman was a genius better than any of us by far just record but when he finished he had his His eyes checked.

21:09They were no different from anybody else. I've read a lot about Bradman and so it was his judgment of length and the reason he picked length so brilliantly because when he was young he was brought up in this house which is away from anybody else. He had to make his own entertainment and he had this little square thing which had a water tank. Everybody's read about it like four walls a water tank there Heat of Australia and he had this hard rubber ball and he had a cricket stump not a bat four and quarter inches a cricket stump like that And he's hitting this ball against the wall So he's having to move his feet and judge it as it comes off at funny angles It did that from being a tiny top Till he's a teenager I was in hours and he played a game like if you hit that wall it would two if it that wallet before and so he gave himself and he was I did the England team the Australian team they played games I was over I was on his own can imagine that ball coming off think about hard rubber ball like that like a golf ball bounces awkward comes off quick and he's going to move those feet the eyesight I've got to judge the length and then he's got to hit it with that.

22:30That kid, I can soon see how he became a genius.

22:35Sir Alastair Cook: When you, Jeff, when you did the training and Bumbles talked to you on this pod about you, you trained ferociously hard, practised. What were you looking at when you practised? What was the like, were your, like when I was, it was about like, making sure my head was in the right position, making sure I wasn't falling over. Right. What did you do? Did you just hit loads of balls or were you concentrating on one thing? worried about the head or anything. I wanted to find rhythm. I've watched you because I've commented when you know you're not my ear or so and I could tell when you're in rhythm by that it's your eyes see the ball, judge the length, but it then tells your feet your hands how to move to that so it's in sync isn't it?

23:18It's fast like you know like like that but and so we train ourselves for all that to happen so quickly that we do it instinctively but the instinct is because we trained ourselves for that instinct it's not just happens and I practice like that so you just batted for time and time trying to

23:38Sir Alastair Cook: get that rhythm and trying to get into that rhythm as quickly as you can when I when I I could make sometimes with a good technique 40 struggle a bit you know But make a 30 40 50, but I knew it wasn't quite there you've done that When I had the rhythm Then I would go to nets and I'd seven or eight minutes. Thanks. That's it. Just get loose rhythm I've got it. I don't need to waste it in the net sitting balls. No, no, no, no, no.

24:11Michael Vaughan: That's what Phil used A whole batter and a fillet was a total waste of time Bill Bowers at Yorkshire, 6 '1", they played for England. Sellers occasionally declared, you know, you're going to get four innings in three days. Brian Sellers. Brian Sellers declared because he said, you're wasting time. And that's how Phil... He'd have been happy. He's wasting time.

24:36Sir Alastair Cook: You wasted everyone's time, Phil. That's what I thought, you see. Let's go and have a bowl.

24:41Phil Tufnell: Geoffrey used to bat against, you know, young Batty, who's the coach at Surrey at the minute. Yeah, yeah. And young Middlebrook, who's now umpiring, he used to bat against their dad all day. We have been there at Edingly. So George Batty would be bowling leg spin, Ralph Middlebrook would be bowling in Brookers, and they'd bowl all day at him. Oh, they'd break up and have a bit of lunch and what have you. Did you at least get him lunch? No, he wouldn't go that far. No, they'd have to bring the pack lunch. Ralph used to, like, early morning, So rest of the day and do something. Yeah, it's about by the clock.

25:19So I'm gonna back 50 minutes. Yeah And I'd take three pairs of gloves three bats, you know, as you do and Back and then play steady and then move upwards trying to play shots. So you got in And playing properly not giving you wicked away, but concentrating concentration is so important. He had it. He had patience concentration Determination all those are so important It's vital of all is is Picking a length. Yeah, then you add the other firm, you know, batting is not one thing Like technique. He had a good technique. I had a good technique technique is quite important But you must never met technique your God The object is to score runs.

26:06However you do it don't get out Well, if you don't get out you will score runs you're bound to because my Uncle Algy told me when I was a young kid. Uncle Algy? He said, listen, young 'un, it's better you stay in and your mates are watching you from the pavilion... Couldn't agree more. ..than you're out watching them back. Couldn't agree more. That's a good idea.

26:28Sir Alastair Cook: Absolutely. Uncle Algy knew his stuff.

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28:06Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Obviously, I've spoken to you at length over the last few years about this Baz Ball era. I know Brendan McCleary hates that terminology, but they're an expansive team that take risks. To win in Australia, it's all about winning in Australia. Absolutely winning. To win in Australia, you can't just play one way. No. It's impossible. Look. Bouncy pitches. I've always been a little wary of being too critical when England, the modern day England do mess up because where it's taken our cricket from what it was is fantastic. People have a habit, we all have, me included, of forgetting how bad we were under Joe.

28:58Joe, wonderful player, lovely lad. I love him to bits. but as a captain and his team were at such a low ebb came back from West Indies can you remember oh yes oh we couldn't have got any lower only one one out of 17 tests oh and we played terrible cricket we looked the body language on the field though it looked as if they weren't enjoying it that's the first thing you've got to do with any set of eleven players if I've got to say can join you yeah get up in the morning and want to go out there and play do you Do you want to bowl? Yeah, I want to bowl. Do you want to bat? I'll bat. Not, oh well, I'll let somebody, oh no.

29:35They get bowlers, oh no, no thanks captain. Get them to ensure, Brendan McCullum has done all that. Ben's been captain, but Brendan came. Without him, it wouldn't have happened. So full marks, fantastic. So we've got to be careful when we... We have seen them sometimes go overboard doing, Just playing daft attacking cricket when just whoa just settle back a bit just back sensibly will win the match And We have a right to be a bit critical of that we have a right because it's silly cricket But our career has gone from there up there and all they have to do now is use a bit of brain Yeah, a bit of common sense and I think above all there's one or two of them you hear them talk they're hubris their arrogance because they play positive expansive wonderful cricket at times they got it into their head that they're entertainers that are Harlan grove trotters they're not the objective plane is to win not winning against the spirit of the game not win against the rules but to win isn't it so you play to win if you're not going to play to win then what is it we're just exhibition Matches that way we want you to play to win That is the object and the sooner to get that into the head and at times it means Still play this wonderful expansive cricket, but at times whoa just cool head hang on suck it in

31:08Michael Vaughan: Have you seen enough from them recently? I mean the Indian series was tremendous But like you've just said that that last morning at the over when you just win the game win the first five match series in 2017 have they got enough in the tank to go to Australia and win anything's possible in sport I've seen funny results football rugby everything nothing's taken for granted I don't think Aussie are that great no I think the batting is very ordinary two players the rest wouldn't worry me if I was playing against them as captain I would look at some of them but it but you've got to you do your thing well you can look at the opposition but hang on I want my players to play well every time I played I wanted to I said in the dressing room I was a strong voice I said listen we have to play well we have to ball well we have to back well we have to touch well so that they have to play exception of the beaters and if they do put your hand up well played but when we let them in through playing sloppy stupid shots bowling crap then sorry you should look in the mirror and said that's not good enough I need to play well every single player we need to play well individually as a team they will have to play above themselves because they got a good bowling attack experienced I'm good even the spinners are good very good boy but make them play exceptional that puts them under pressure them at home when I've seen that I've seen their their media turn when they're too well or they're cruel to us when we go but let me tell you keep them quiet

33:01Phil Tufnell: keep them play well but responsibility as well individual responsibility team responsibility all see that lad from Surrey what I call him number three hope pulp and then the opening batsman the left-hander talking about smacking him what you know whacking it whoa whoa whoa just yeah play if it's up there hit it right I play with some opening batsman play different from me that's brilliant you want different types of players can't ball play like him for me you want Different type but but use your brains

33:38Michael Vaughan: I've actually said boys. I've said for this England side to get there's two things that will make this England side to stand out and Potentially be the number one theme in the world. They need to find a great spinner. That's not easy I also believe that they need a cook or a boycott star batter at the top of the order Definitely that's what I believe will make them into a quality side need a bit of glue listen Mm-hmm the best opening partnership the world has ever seen any country is Hobbs and Sutcliffe, Herbert Sutcliffe of Yorkshire, Jack Hobbs. They averaged 89. 89? Yeah. Jesus. Do you know the second best, Brigham?

34:17What? It's the Jack Hobbs, Wilfred Rhodes of Yorkshire. Started at number 11. Did he? Went up to opening 38 times. Hey, chance. No, he could back. You're useless. What was he doing at 11 then, Geoff? Well when he started to batting him at 11 and he went down and he finished up opening 38 times and the average 62 You start to get a little bit They still owe the record at Melbourne is it 323 for opening partnership? It's the best opening partnership of any England Wow and Jack was the wonderful player could caress the ball, you know great player all the shots Wilfred Sadie and that's it if you get a balance we've got a left hander who plays shots and a wally at the other end oh anybody could bowl it Wally Hammond oh no a wally

35:15Sir Alastair Cook: a wally a wally who's it

35:17Phil Tufnell: from your commentating time so when you've retired who'd be the notable players who the players that have really you've admired and thought he's he's top drawer I know Viv but particularly England England players Just come on England players From your commentary time And we'll talk about commentary in a minute Jimmy Anderson Yeah Packers hat bowler I thought Stuart Broad was very good Everybody talked about Jimmy quite rightly Excellent But Stuart Broad had magical moments When he bowled people out And if you were a captain When he got on He bowled people out Absolutely I watched him I thought this guy I like him.

36:01I like bowlers who get wicked. He won matches. Not helped, he won matches on his own. And batters? Kevin Peterson.

36:10Phil Tufnell: Me too. Yeah, and him. Yeah, right. Totally different. But it's about your job. Your job up front is, first of all, to see off the new bowl bowlers. They're the best. The best bowlers get the new bowl. The best bowlers get a new bowl that does more. The best bowlers get a new bowl. They're fresh. And they're the best bowlers and they get a pitch if it's got a bit in it You're gonna get it earlier all three things there So the opening batsman just because I was one I'm not saying it but the opening batsman Has to set the tone for the team if they have a good partnership. There's no way you should get bowled out You were close to Gooch and Stewart weren't you know I mean they were they were brilliant players Alex Stewart was a very good player.

36:58Phil Tufnell: And Gooch? Top player. Good man as well. Big heart. Big heart, you've got to have some ticker. And you've got to have a laugh. I mean, we played against those West Indies in 80. First test was Nottingham, both first captain. Who was captain? Both. I know.

37:17Sir Alastair Cook: Was he not good yet, Beefy? Was he a great captain? I think Beefy was the best thing on a cricketer I've ever played. Oh, lovely, yeah. Without a shout. I thought he got the captaincy five years too early too young but I got it 29 or something lots of experience maturity We're all mature. We're all different. I'm way later and We faced Holden and Roberts the olden ball the ball first over it went over gochers head and bounce twice into the pavilion size She looked at me. You know how he goes with his eyes group it's under good like that and it came down after an hour of those two were ducking and weaving a bit fresh pitch I said it's all right now fiery second strings on Joel down and Colin cross I said thanks yeah and yeah it's

38:11Michael Vaughan: gonna be as well but you mentioned right that heart and you've had you've had an incredible life now being a cricketer you've obviously had things that have gone your way things that haven't you've obviously got your health that you've fought through remarkably where do you get that from that ticker that you talk

38:32Sir Alastair Cook: about where does it go on with it so it's an obvious daughter good ticket with the ball in me and yes yes absolutely yeah wonderful but not too much of the bathroom man Colin Croft Colin Croft couldn't see it Jeff my eyes weren't in tune we did have Bradman's eyes sometimes you can't do it Philip I never left as much as you back I cannot use the words properly here You can say what you want Jeff. You can't do everything in life. Can you? Well, you certainly couldn't bat No, I couldn't I couldn't you could bowl a little bit though.

39:21Phil Tufnell: You don't have to have therapy

39:22Sir Alastair Cook: I thought you could bowl a little bit. So you know, I don't ask the batters to do my bowling So why do I have to do their batting for me? Oh, you're right No, when we had a when in England if we had a day when we didn't bat barrel Yeah, I would stand up so listen. It's our fault. Yeah, I'm the bowlers expect a ball when we haven't got a good score It's our fault. We're paid to make runs not the tail enders No, the tail enders won't help you out now and again and fine, but it's not their job. Ours is the job Yeah, and we need to make enough runs to give them a chance to get 20 wickets Yeah, that's why when I pick my team and you need batting You have to make enough runs to give the bowlers however good they are enough runs to bowl the opposition out.

40:08If you keep getting out for 120, 150, you're not going to win the match. Go on. A couple of questions.

40:14Sir Alastair Cook: How highly do you rate Joe Root in the best England batsman you've ever seen? Ever seen? Yeah, like, I think he's the best English batsman I've ever seen. And I never saw you bat Geoffrey Lye, so that's why I've excluded you from the list. Go on then, Glambo. Who would you rather have, Geoff or Rooty? Oh! Oh

40:34Phil Tufnell: Well dead simply doing two different jobs. I'll have him as opening battle

40:40Pretty good team that no go on and Joe tried Batting at three and he couldn't do it. It's I don't sometimes it's

40:48Phil Tufnell: I don't know it And it's not the only one it's what you are. I mean the guy for India Was one of the best number threes I've ever seen rapid rapid Oh lovely boy at all I can Absolute the wall get in big scores undemonstrative but make runs And I saw him open a number of times for India because I did a lot of commentating

41:17Well most times you got out And he used to say said to me I can't do it Jeffrey in his head Psychological because what's the dish to me number three guy gets out first over in your butt But if it's in your head You can't do it. Yeah, and it couldn't Joe couldn't do it just make him worse He's brilliant at number four. What's your other question the other question?

41:40Sir Alastair Cook: I've always wanted to ask you this Jeffrey Who rang you to tell you how did you find out you weren't playing the next test match after getting the double hundred and how did you react?

41:53Nobody rang me No You used to have to listen to the BBC on a Sunday the news at 1 o 'clock

42:01Sir Alastair Cook: You're not playing. And after the normal 1 o 'clock news Got 200 I might have thrown it against the wall They announced on the news that this is the England team And I was playing a charity match Down in Wales on Sundays We didn't play then Sunday League only came in in 68 so 67 when I got dropped My Duggin so no man who should spelt his name with an a Definitely He never spoke to me at all Never rang me up When I found out on the news I was imagine the press were all over me and I was a I wasn't pretty naive and and I was in tears. I admit it, I was. I just didn't know what I'd done wrong. I'd made a run up to the test match.

42:56Uncovered pitches, you know, if you're getting bad nick, it's hard to get out. If you're in good nick, you can play uncovered pitches, but you're getting bad nick, it's very difficult. These pitches seeming, jumping, turning. And I got picked because it was Headingley, and I'd grafted my way all I knew how to do. That's all you would have played. Graft your way to 100 the first day. after that relief I made 140 in three hours and a bit and I'd great but there's a relief so that Sunday Lance Gibbs was playing the West Indies offspinner he grabbed hold of me and pulled me into this marquee and he said listen hold your head up you've done nothing wrong nice fella he said they're at fault if you'd have been a West Indian you'd have been the national hero It was wonderful to me picked me up when I was absolutely nice fellow and I got through the day and when I We played the next match I think at Bramall Lane Wednesday the test match I got dropped on was the Thursday I Got 220 not out against North and so all the papers were about me mr.

44:06Insole and what are you? And when I played the test much after when I came back I I was terrified. I was terrified to play a maiden. Can you imagine? And Inso still never spoke to me. Never said to me. Never told me before the match, during the match at all. Never once came up and said anything. Well, Closie must have said something. Closie said he spoke up for me. Because can you imagine? During the match I made 200. If you disobeyed Closie, he'd have given you a bunch of fives. It would. We had a different management to what you had.

44:44Sir Alastair Cook: It's called physical violence. Hey, listen. This is the truth about Closie. You think I'm kidding. We play at Glamorgan, where they're going to finish, or have to finish, the first-class match, Swansea. This year, they're finishing cricket, aren't they?

44:59Phil Tufnell: Yeah, Swansea and Talens. We're playing there, and it's a big turning pitch. Didn't jump, turned. Shepard and Presley. Yeah, Jim Presley. And the first morning, two and a half hours, they always had a two and a half hour session. We keep dropping catches. Can you imagine on a turning pitch? We're close as going wild. There's no air, but steam's coming out of his ears. And he finally bowls just before lunch, because he bowled offspin as well. I'm on the boundary. Somebody hits it. I go running in, catch it. My knees catch me. And the ball goes out. I fall down bloody shit all over me all over me Then there's lunch and he's playing hell up in he's had a terrible morning We are I'll play run off to get the blazer and out of his way And I've got to walk all the way from the boundary so I'm last up and he's still mustering when I'm Taking my boots off get my slippers on wash me on over with you and all that and he's not bloody for right so-and-so with the glasses I said, listen, if I dropped as many catches as you at short-legged, he dropped three.

46:10He shot across the dressing room, he grabbed me up there, shoved me up against the door, my feet's off the floor doing this, and I close my eyes as he drew his fist back. Next minute, there's Freddy Nillian pulling him off. Go get their lunch. Get me lunch, I'm a shivering like that.

46:30Phil Tufnell: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. He's one of the best commentators I've ever heard. My missus thinks he's box office. It's ridiculous that he's not commentating. And you binned him. He didn't bin it, did he? I just did. I just did. It was Phil's fault. What did you do it for?

46:52Michael Vaughan: I didn't do it.

46:53Phil Tufnell: You must have enjoyed commentary and your rapport with Agnew. He's a good mate, isn't he? Agnew's a great mate. Yeah. This week, I didn't know you were coming today. This week, I'm in a pub and a bloke come. He said, oh, I know who you are. He said, you're cricket and so on. He said, you won't like this. He said, I think it's a disgrace that Geoffrey Boycott is not on commentary and I know exactly why. He said, it's John Agnew that shafted him. He said, they've never got on. I said, let me stop you there. I said, they're great mates. John's fault. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, people get a different idea.

47:33Michael Vaughan: Of all the times you've commentated, if you think back, you've been commentating so many years, what's the one moment that you think back and think, well, I'd love to be commentating on that game again? Oh. Or best game of cricket you've seen, tightest game. I'd like to be in at the World Cup final when England won. Yeah, 19. I got invited to come, but I'd agreed, oh, months before, to open the there was like a faith and fair in Boston spa where I live yeah yeah and got amusement all sorts I agreed to open it you just can't let people down you know the old village was there so I had to do that and then run back and watch the TV and everything I'd like to be in on there especially that to that one special over when he ball the first ball of wide and He's only got six.

48:25Oh, my God. Oh, the first ball of wine. He's only six balls in special over.

48:31Michael Vaughan: Yeah. Oh, my God. Do you know the best time that I... We worked for Channel 5 and CMS for many years. Oh, that Indian. No, I'll tell you what the best time was at the Oval. Do you remember when you and Agus were on air? And Agus got that letter out. Oh, the wine, that. The wine.

48:48Phil Tufnell: You're checking her eyes. You've not got 100 hundreds. It's 90. 100 I was in Faisalabad I said it can't be in Pakistan I told him who keeps on he's not getting an invitation is that true I mean it's a fantastic story about the Saturday guest which was incredibly Alice Cooper the rock star and he's come with his publicist his manager and his missus Geoffrey's gone for his lunch and Agnew's interviewing Alice Cooper. He comes back into the commentary box and, Geoffrey, you're just in time, can I introduce her to Alice Cooper? And he turns round and shakes hands with his missus.

49:38Michael Vaughan: You're not meant to know everything, are you, Geoff? You can't know everything. How can you be a pop star called Alice Cooper? No, we've had some fun. He's a great man. Yeah.

49:50Sir Alastair Cook: You've always got... One thing I noticed, I've done a little bit of commentary just off and on with TMS. What do you mean off and on? You're a stalwart man. No, but with Geoffrey. With Geoffrey, with Geoffrey. All right. And you always had a great... You're always talking about technique and I think that sometimes people perhaps got the wrong sort of impression of that. It wasn't to have a go at the lad, you know what I mean? If you haven't seen someone, you talk about how they go about their game and everything. A couple of times I can remember Jeff going, oh, well, if he don't get his back foot there and his elbow's too high and his head's over there, he's going to nick off the second slip.

50:27Two balls later, nicks off the sixth.

50:30Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah.

50:31Phil Tufnell: You can see it happening. Yeah. You can see it happening. See, I worked on TMS for a long time with Fred. Yeah. And I think Fred was fabulous. I mean, it could be outrageous. Could be.

50:44Michael Vaughan: Oh, outrageous, Fred. Give us the the Fred line at Edliff and Neil Madden Mallender ball for England

50:51Phil Tufnell: There's some great bowlers have run in from that Kirstow Lane end and he's not fucking one of them

51:00Phil Tufnell: He did two wickets that stage he did he got a five-year-old Yeah, yeah Wonderful baller brilliant baller. Oh people often Today's we're so sucked in to watching television. It's a brilliant medium isn't it? And whatever we see on television, we think that's the best there's ever been. And the great players of soccer, rugby, cricket, whatever, there's no pictures of them, hardly. Very little. Of course, television. And in black and white, the old ones. Grainy, wasn't it? Yeah. and so we tend to think that everything we see of the modern age the last 20 years it's the best ever yeah of course there's been some good players as good as the past but they tend to think everything today and you can't tell them if you haven't seen Fred the first to 300 test match wicket just speaks for itself if you look at the figures he got his wickets at 21 Jimmy, who we rate as a great bowler today, and he is, got his at 26.

52:14Jimmy's strike rate was 56 balls. Fred's is 49. 49. And so, okay, different years today. We've got different pitches, different bats we got. And you look at areas, yes, it is different.

52:33Sir Alastair Cook: Different balls. Everything's different, but if you want a yardstick to judge And it's like the greatest ball ever is probably a Sydney Francis Barnes SF Barnes and most people go the LD You've got to look at and read your history not just read the figures either Because you can get a 15 year old boy a girl I can put all the figures out for you and tell you all they're the best because they've got the best figures It's not just that you've got to look at what people said in their era The best Batsman in the world at the time Sydney Francis Barnes was bowling Is an Australian called Clem Hill Sydney, there's a stand Clem Hill stand.

53:17I've got names on them but Clem Hill has a stand and He wrote that band is by far away the best bowler a ball like Jimmy about fast medium tall very tall he was big hands and he bore swingers and cutters and he just bowled people out if all the South Africans out they weren't quite as good

53:42Phil Tufnell: did Fred in test matches I can't recall but was he on uncovered pitches or were they all covered well in England uncovered pitches Jim Laker got his 19 at Old Trafford on damp on a damp pitch but as you said when you played abroad South Africa Australia places covered yeah covered but you might have just seen it rain yeah it once asked to me he said we both five sessions in Barbados against that world Walcott Sobers and can I we didn't get a wicket I said well I'm not surprised I guess that lot and it's not like bowling in Zimbabwe is it I he was fully Freddie just say get five for every match you got I got five for every month I didn't go through it all he said well I get the openers out when I've got a new ball he said he'd bring me back I'll get middle order one they said I'd clean up 10 and 11 he said there's me five you know this is a tip for youngsters out there if you're watching batsmen particularly when I was playing when I was coming up as a youngster I wanted to improve all the Young kid just going the outside.

54:54I went to Fred Raymond and I was closey Bowlers asked them What they thought of my batting. Yeah, how would you get me out? Because that's how the opposition bowlers are looking. I saw they're looking at you And then where can I get him out? This guy's a good really good Ask the bowlers because they look at you differently to your mates your other batsmen They look and Fred would say, get forward on this pitch, keep in low. I said, well, it's a bit short, get forward. And then he didn't want to talk to me. Raymond Deneford come past me. You know, it's turning quite a lot. Just as I was going to open, just coming off the field, I get pad up.

55:38Just watch that back foot shot you play. One or two are keeping low. They give you helpful and a good thing for batsmen out there. go and ask the bowlers what they see in you, where you need to improve, where you need to get better.

55:54Sir Alastair Cook: Apart from Bumble, who seemed to have you sort of, you know, seemed to have you in his pocket, who was the one fella who probably had, you know, used to get you out all the time or, you know, looked, you felt uncomfortable against? I wouldn't put it that way, but I put two bowlers who were tough I played a lot I did get runs but I also got out Underwood on a wet pitch deadly ball cutters fast ball spinners up there Naughty oh Naughty was a genius and I played at Canterbury once and it rained and I knew him well because I played test cricket with him I went on two I went in chatted with him I said it rained like this 6 for 40 deadly so it rains another couple of hours hours it'd be eight for 20.

56:49Sir Alastair Cook: Brilliant. Whoa, he was that confident and he just bowed people out. And he, but where the spinner, as he said, when he got some pictures that were wet, they got so wet they wouldn't take the turn. You had to wait for it to get tacky, didn't you?

57:03Phil Tufnell: That's it. Sticky dog. About three o 'clock. Sticky dog. Sticky dog. That's Australia. Oh, is it? Go on. But in England, if it was too wet for it to spin, if you cut it, you'd get it to jump. I'll take pieces out deadly could do that um the other bowler in his pump Sobers ball and left-harm swing he was quite sharp as a sharp as Jimmy was Left-harm had this wonderful life. He was so light Got right round almost double jointed swung the ball. Yeah, dude Very good. They bore me out at nothing. You got me LVW second ball. Oh, I've got him out

57:45Phil Tufnell: Lefty, how did you get through the gate? Bowled him. How many? Just got 257 wickets. But they were racing on the telly, I think. He took a watch to three o 'clock from Ascot or something. He had a few quid. That's the only time you could get him out. Gary Sobers, he's a wonderful player. Best marksman I've seen. Oh, beautiful. But he's such a smile on his face. He hit it hard. Love it. He hit it hard. My best friend, one of my best friends, Peter Stringer, played a bit for York. Big Stringer, you're right. Yeah. Coaches in South Wales.

58:13Michael Vaughan: He went to the West. He's a good fellow then. Yeah, a big strength fellow. He's got sobers out. And I looked in the papers, and I'm like, whoa. So I rang up. I said, whoa. I said, how did you get him out? Like, you thought, I said, I got him caught halfway down the motorway.

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1:00:03Michael Vaughan: STICK TO CRICKET is brought to you by Betfair. What have you got on your car? Right, boys, we're going to finish with community questions. We've had some questions sent in and we're going to do it with our hats on. Can we, Kieran? Hats? We're all going to wear... Geoffrey, get your hats on. Oh, brilliant. Come on. I have my own. Yeah. Lovely. Get your hats on, lads. Oh, I love the hats. These are nice these aren't they? Panama's are they? Yeah, these are all for Geoffrey. Right Geoffrey, this first question is what do you dislike most about the modern game?

1:00:42Big bats. Big bats, too many sixes, they're becoming ordinary. It should be a special shot. No, it's just becoming to a penny now.

1:00:51Michael Vaughan: So you'd reduce the size of the bats? It'll be interesting to see the players today have a match where they have to bat with£2.04-ounce bats like we did. See how they do.

1:01:02Phil Tufnell: The other thing about that is, from our time, the boundary's in. We used to use the whole pitch. There wasn't a boundary rope. So the boundary's in to encourage big bats to hit sixes.

1:01:14Michael Vaughan: Health and safety with the digital advertising boards.

1:01:16Phil Tufnell: I know, but come on. Health and safety, my arse. Cricket should be more important than advertising.

1:01:24Michael Vaughan: Yeah, I'm with you. By the way, the hat suits you do. Elf in safety. Like a hat. Next question, next question. Who do you think are the best five opening batters of all time? Jack Hobbs. WG Grace. Ooh, got WG in. I have to, I mean, look, just look at his figures and everything. He played in underarm, roundarm and overarm. playing the whole it all ears you got zillion to bring them to talk about pebbles in them and all jumping at 20 or hundreds when I'd anybody got things

1:02:05Sir Alastair Cook: yeah it was a doctor was it was a doctor those two putting so lead so we got

1:02:14Michael Vaughan: Hobbs, Grace, Hutton. Gavaska. Gavaska, Sonny Gavaska. Good one.

1:02:21Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, yeah. Good one. Little Sonny. Little Maestro. I would think Arthur Morris of Australia. Arthur Morris. Flashdandy. Right. Got a lot of runs.

1:02:33Phil Tufnell: Invincibles. It's the Arsenal win. A lot of runs. A lot of runs. Arthur Morris.

1:02:38Sir Alastair Cook: Terry Henry for the Invincibles. What's up? He's heard his bird camp.

1:02:48Oh I'd take his cover drive anytime Oh Which shot

1:02:57Phil Tufnell: You did his coat shot in court and you were good here cookie were good at no one Anything it was his mind right

1:03:11Michael Vaughan: Last two, come on, we're on the time here. Jeffrey's got to go out this afternoon. Who is your favourite cricketer that is currently playing? Oh, currently playing? Yeah, current player. Who's your favourite? Go on and choose one. I don't know about that. Currently playing. Little Ducky. I like... Gil, Shubman Gil. Jadja. Oh, what a good... Oh, I love it. I've always liked... I don't know him. I never met him. Oh, what a good answer. He's always in the game. Ball's left arm spin. His feeling is fantastic.

1:03:48Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. I've always thought that, look, if you can do a really great job in the team, fine, become a great player, him, me, what, get your runs. But another quality, he isn't spoken about much, is through your performance, can you lift the others? And he feels so brilliantly. His energy, isn't he? 36-year-old as well. 36. Andy Batts. Have you seen him? Oh, in the shoe. He's come back. Oh, yeah. Smile on his face. Yeah, he's a tough bugger. He is, yeah.

1:04:17Michael Vaughan: He is. I like that. I mean, test match cricket as well, but he does well at 2020. He's been with Chennai. They've won it five times, haven't they? You'll be right. Them and Mumbai have won it five each, I think. He's a top player and does everything I like about it. Energy, smiles, tough though underneath, competitive. It feels brilliant. The last question boys and it's come from Ruben Ruben Amarin He said have you got any advice for him? So it says yeah My friend again Brian Clough told me To build a team Goalkeeper, centre-half, centre-forward are the spine. They have to be the top three players.

1:05:11We haven't got centre-halves. One's a car toss, been with her five years, hasn't he? Staying on for the money. What about the goalie? Decide one. We've just bought another centre-half, 40-odd million. Why do Bayern Munich want to let go a player? Bayern Munich's one of the best teams in the world. There's something not right. I bought him for 40 odd million and the goalkeeper, you're kidding me. You're kidding me, he's not good enough. And centre forward, we bought a young kid, we don't know if he's any good. So there you are, the spine of the team, it's all big question mark, isn't it? Simple.

1:05:49Michael Vaughan: I think Ruben will be happy with that. I don't know if he'll take note, but it's true. If he don't improve, he'll be going, I think. Sorry, Ruben, but you might be gone. Might be gone by the time the show goes out. Boykes, thanks for coming on. Brilliant. Thank you for having me. I'm sorry I'm trying to chewing gum, but I must say, I've had two lots of cancer of the throat, I have no saliva, glands, I get dry, I can't really speak, so chewing gum helps me just lubricate my mouth so I can talk. It has affected my voice, the two operations.

1:06:24Phil Tufnell: Great to see you. Great to see you. Brilliant. So Geoff.

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