Steve Bruce: Sir Alex Ferguson, Cantona chaos & BazBall debate! | Stick to Cricket EP 42

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2:06Michael Vaughan: Hiya. You all good? Oh, look at that, the wisdom. Oh.

2:17Michael Vaughan: Oh, biscuits, sweets, yep. Give us a sweet. Morning, morning. Morning, all. How are you? I feel you're in this one. I don't know, mate. What? There you go, sir. I'm in the head of the table, am I? Bloody hell. How are you, Steve? I'm OK, thank you. Are you? That was great, yeah.

2:32Phil Tufnell: Yeah. Oh, football. Yeah.

2:34Michael Vaughan: What's the equivalent in football? The wisdom is cricket. What's the equivalent in football? Do you have one? Play fair or something? I wouldn't have a clue. Not the Panini sticky alps. Hey, hey. I used to love them. There was one that you could look at, wouldn't you, and get all the players' details and all the rest of it. Yeah. What was that called?

2:51Sir Alastair Cook: I can't remember. I used to get... I got one when I was a boy growing up. It was like in a semi-circle, and you used to have the little figureheads used to stick into it. It's going back a few years ago. It's a beauty hole. From the garage. Oh, it was lovely. Three-dimensional. You still got it? I wish I had it. It would probably be worth 40.

3:11Michael Vaughan: Did you have a... I had a beauty hole. I built a little stand.

3:15Phil Tufnell: You used to hire in the pitch, didn't you? I had the Astro one.

3:19Michael Vaughan: I had the Astro one.

3:20Phil Tufnell: Did you have Astro?

3:21Michael Vaughan: Yeah, yeah.

3:22Phil Tufnell: Astro? You must have been a Foch one. I was. You're like Kez, isn't he? like, I mean, I'm Brian Glover in Kes, who's the teacher, I'm Bobby Charlton today. Penalty, I'll take it. He's moved. I'll take it again.

3:36Michael Vaughan: Hey, Harry, come on. It was Dennis Lowe in the wash or something, wasn't it? Hey, Bruce. I'm going to be Bobby Charlton. Dennis Lowe's in the wash. Bruce, meet Harry. Thanks to meet you. He's a big red. He's a big red. Big red.

3:50Phil Tufnell: And he had that bandage round his knee, didn't he? He did, yeah. Oh, fantastic.

3:55Michael Vaughan: Harry, any questions for Brucey? Have you seen the picture? No, we've seen it. Oh, you've got to dig it out. It's a classical one. Go on, ask a question. He's nervous.

4:02Sir Alastair Cook: We had a question of the week that was really interesting, actually, on the football show. And it was, what was the best centre-back partnership in Premier League history? And you were mentioned with Pally. That was Roy's answer. Roy's answer? Oh, nice.

4:19Premier League, you see? The thing is about the Premier League, everybody thinks that football didn't exist, you know, until 30 years ago when the Premier League started. Adams and... I honestly think... Adams and... Viddich and Ferdinand. Viddich and Ferdinand. Oh, Viddich. I would probably say Hansen and Lawrenson, but that's not Premier League. That was Carazin. They were something else, by the way.

4:40Michael Vaughan: What made them so good? Well, he was the typical... The two of them could play a bit. Usually he played centre-back because you could play. And I think these two defied everything by being able to take the ball and play from the back, especially Hansen. Hanson was something else. He's a few up in the air, though, still. They were still very, very good defenders. You're right about that, Brucey, because the other day Salah scored against Everton and they're all talking about, I think he's become the joint top scorer. Nine, he scored. Nine, yeah, in the Merseide derby and someone went, wait a minute, Ian Rush scored a few more than that.

5:13Michael Vaughan: Before the Premier League. Before the Premier League. I mean, nobody gives Rushy a mention anymore. Rushy's record is that he got 340 goals, you know, Rushy. 340 goals, I think, by Liverpool and 260 appearances, something like that. Did he? Yeah, it's huge numbers. Robbie Fowler scored loads. Yeah, but Russia would be more than Robbie. I think Russia's the all-time one, isn't he? We'll have to check it. I'm going to say Bruce and Ballester. Yeah. Mainly because Pally was that good, being the one, by the way. Well, I don't blame you. I wouldn't disagree with Roy Keane either, to be honest. Cookey was at the Virtue final.

5:49Michael Vaughan: Yeah. Luton versus Stockport. Oh, did you go? Yeah. Brilliant. He goes to a bit, you know, a bit of Salford. Yeah, my son Alex is at Salford, so I've seen a lot. I've seen a lot of Salford this week, this year. It's great. Got a chance. Yeah, it's great, isn't it? Love it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Is there something about that lower league stuff? It's a bit down and dirty, isn't it? No! I'm not saying as a fan, you can relate to it. I went back in it and went to Blackpool about 18 months ago and the lads who work in the lower divisions, I take my hat off to them because it's constant turnaround.

6:25You have a good team. We had a really good team at Blackpool. Lost three or four back-to-loan players. Lost three or four to the championship. All of a sudden, you have to build a new team again. And that seems to be the way it is. It goes around. You have to build a new team. You don't give the players big contracts. They get one or two years if they're lucky. And then there's a big turnaround constantly. and the ones who, you know, it's a bit like the kid at Richie Wellens at Orient, who were in the playoffs last year. They've just finished a book. I still think they're in a relegation because they've lost all their team and it's a constant with all of it.

6:59It's a constant turnaround.

7:00Sir Alastair Cook: My mates go to Sutton United. They say it's the best afternoon. I think it's 65 quid for the VIP. You get a bit of lunch. Drink as much as you can. You get a bit of lunch. You get a bottle of wine. You sit there and they all kick hell out of each other and it's a good game. I tell you what... In the pre-fab, you know what I mean?

7:22Michael Vaughan: So you'll have been to Mac Town. Mac Town in that sports bar. Oh, I understand, yeah. And they can have a beer outside. There's a proper sports bar down the wing. One of the stands of sports bar. Best bar in Macclesfield. There's a game of football going on there.

7:35Sir Alastair Cook: Really? I would have played on the wing then. I would have played on the wing, had a little sharpener just halfway through. Would you see him as a winger? Yeah. Yeah. Where else would he be? Out of the net. You're a goalkeeper as well, weren't you, Cat? Oh, no, it's a good left half. Oh, really? Left half. Left half. I suppose a goalkeeper. I thought you were a goalkeeper. I thought you were a goalkeeper. You were, a goalkeeper. My father always was disappointed. I was a good left half. Number six, tell you who my favourite was, Kevin Beattie. So he had a goalkeeper. He told Joe Hart he was a goalkeeper.

8:04Sir Alastair Cook: Now he played centre back because Bruce is centre back. Where were you?

8:09Michael Vaughan: Kevin Beattie was a hell of a court. What were you? Left half. Left half. number six numbers is is there anything you're having a rose is the left off

8:16Phil Tufnell: these days yeah yeah yeah left wing back who so that's what no you down the down the dark feet it so it used to be center off right off left off right fullback left back goalie yeah they used to stick the bloke who's all plus and shove him in the goals well that's probably no no they keep giving him the ball yeah don't Give it him, he's hopeless. That's why he's in the goal. When you're at school, isn't it? You're lying up, I'll have him, I'll have him, I'll have him. You get in the net. You get in the net and don't give it him. And now they keep giving the goalie. Look at the rumour ruler. The rumour ruler.

8:56Phil Tufnell: They give him the ball. Not a rumour. He couldn't trap a bag of cement. Got a ball with it, didn't he? And Kai Havertz comes in and he...

9:08Michael Vaughan: Oh, yes. You're a bit old school here, Dave. You want it gone? Stop giving it to the goalie.

9:13Phil Tufnell: Clear your lines. When Stanley Matthews used to play against Bold and Wanderers, they were two evil full-backs, Roy Hartle and Tommy Banks. Did Tommy Banks play for England? And Stanley Matthews come up against Roy Hartle and he'd kick hell out of him. He'd just kick him. And Tommy Banks shouted across to Roy Hartle. He said, Roy, when you finish kicking him, kick him over here.

9:38It's amazing, you know, because that rule came into effect when I was playing, the pass-back rule where the goalkeepers couldn't kick the ball up. Oh, yeah. And it changed all the goalkeepers. I mean, big Jim Layton with us, with Matt Drew, was a great goalkeeper for Aberdeen and came down to... Jittery Jim. Jittery Jim. He was never jittery until the pass-back came along because he was a fabulous goalkeeper, but he was not great with his feet at all. It was an effort for Jim to take a goal kick. You know, he was that poor. Show him in the goals. That's why he probably did. But he was a fantastic goalkeeper.

10:16And then all of a sudden, the pass back came along and the goalkeepers had to control it. So we had Schmeichel in goal with us, by the way. Then all he wanted to do all week was play outside. Never wanted to be in goal. He just wanted to play out all the time and train with us. Well, I've got to use my feet all the time.

10:32Michael Vaughan: Did you like that change? Oh, I think it was a great change to have. I think the game changed totally, totally in that respect. If you remember, Gazza was at the semi-final or the final, kept passing it back to the goalkeeper. When they were wasting the time, the goalkeeper would pick it up and throw it back. They'd pass it back to him. Yeah, it was a big, big change. One for the better.

11:08Michael Vaughan: Facing over from Joffre, or man Mark Eric for 90 minutes. Oh! He punched the copper, you know. I knew what the Geordies wanted. They wanted a team that was up and at you. And we were the total opposite. I've never seen anybody walk into Old Trafford, literally put their collar up and say, this is my stage. Most of us, you're either late or you've been out. Why did you look a tougher? Well, no. We actually played Spurs away and I remember watching it and thought, come on, Stokesy, get it before we start. Have you ever seen the footage of Maradona juggling the ball? Oh, yeah, yeah. Romario was doing that on the way in the tunnel, you know, he was like, oh, my God.

11:46I don't know, bouncing up his head.

11:48Michael Vaughan: Never watching cricket again or going on holiday to Newcastle. I'm never watching cricket again, I think.

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13:11Michael Vaughan: Steve, welcome to Stick to Cricket. I was going to say, we're all talking about football in the dressing room. We're all fans, mate. Where did your love for cricket start? I was a kid in the North East, and there was no real county side then, because Durham didn't exist. But there was a famous boys club called Walls End Boys Club, which was renowned for football, really. But round the corner was the sports centre where I worked, Walls End Cricket Club. And I used to play for the school and ended up going in the summer to play for Walls End Cricket Club, yeah. So that's where it basically started.

13:52I wasn't very good, though. I wasn't very naturally at anything, but I would have a go at anything. but I would prefer to bat than bowl, yeah. It was hard work, that bowling log, wasn't it? Don't ask me. But you know, you never did it. Well, it's a massive sporting region, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, but as I said, we didn't have a county team. Durham was great. Yeah, Durham didn't happen until a few years later after I left. Don Robson. Yeah, yeah, but that's what... And there was a famous... We used to go to Jesmond often where, you know, I used to go with my dad and watch the cricket. That's where I came from.

14:28Michael Vaughan: Who were your cricket and heroes? I would have to say Boycott was. Good man. Well, I've had the privilege to meet him. He's a big Man United fan, isn't he? He loves United, yeah. But I remember going to watch him and I think he got 25 runs all day somewhere. You know, when you think about change, like back pass rule, how cricket's changed as well. Yeah, hugely. I went to Saturday, I played golf and I went to Alderley Edge Creek Club. Good. And I drove by and I'm on the game on, so I thought, just go on, have a see who's playing. There's a lot of people there. Really? They're playing Lindo. They were the local rivals.

15:05Michael Vaughan: Yes. Just down the road. Walk onto the veranda there and I see Paul Allett. Yeah, he sat there and he sat next to a guy with a white coat on with a big scarf, sit down and I'm there. Oh, look, it's Boykes. Yeah. Geoffrey, yeah. He's in good nick, isn't he? Yeah, he looks fantastic. Really? Yeah, he looks fantastic. He's indestructible. It was like him when he was back. Really? Thank you, Pat.

15:27Phil Tufnell: There's a recent picture, just being on social media, of Boykes and Andrew Flintoff. Well, Freddie was there as well with his young 'un, Preston in the nets. Preston in the nets. I mean, it's a great scene. That is a great scene, Alderley Edge.

15:39Michael Vaughan: You know the famous... You know, Boykes United lost the Champions League final to Barcelona. Would it have been around 2-0-9? Yeah, when Rooney scored. But Barcelona ran them off the park. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 3-1, yeah. But apparently Sir Geoffrey wrote Sir Alex a letter. Wrote him a letter. Oh, God help, praise me. Before the final, saying that you need to make some new signings, your midfield's too slow, don't pass it quick enough and they don't run fast enough. And they lose the final and I believe he saw him and he said, oh, did you get your letter? I think Sir Alex has said, yeah, I did get that.

16:13Michael Vaughan: He said, I was fucking right, wasn't I? Good luck with that, by the way. He's braver than I thought he was. Oh, he is. For sure. He used to write Simon Cowell letters. Oh, really? I don't think Cowell. Yeah, he did. He did. When he sat Cheryl Cole. When he got rid of... No, he didn't. I swear on my life. He wasn't happy that Simon Cowell had got rid of Cheryl. He liked Cheryl Cole. He thought she was fantastic. He thought she had a lovely range. Yeah, and Boyk was disappointed that Cowell gave her the Tic Tacs. So he wrote her a letter. Jesus. Yeah. Go on. We saw you in Oz. Yeah, yeah. Yeah? Yeah, yeah.

16:52And when I was having a cup of tea with Vorney, and he said, by the end of play today, we'll be 350 for two. I took my seat, by the way, we'd lost six wickets. 138 for six.

17:05Michael Vaughan: That's right, you'd been on the BBC at lunch, hadn't you? I'd be in the BBC and I bumped into you and said, I said, well, have a good afternoon today. This was the second day. We were 100 for one. I got back in my seat, by the way, I could hear all this noise going on. And five down, six down, I thought, it's all over in two days.

17:22Phil Tufnell: All over. Which was that managerial job that you took? And you said, I can't take it because I'm going watching the Test cricket. That's not quite what that was. That was my team.

17:30Michael Vaughan: That was Wednesday, wasn't it? It was Sheffield Wednesday. Right. It was Sheffield Wednesday. And actually, it was due to cricket. I was taking my father-in-law out in Barbados. And England were playing the West Indies. So it was just before I took Sheffield Wednesday. But I'd said to them all along before meeting them, before meeting Chance Hero, which was eventful to say the least, I said, look, look, it's not all about money, but I said, there's a payment due to me by the end of January. If you want to pay it, then I'll start work tomorrow for you. If not, if not, then I'm not available until the end of January.

18:14And that was, at any rate, people got wind of it that I wasn't going to Sheffield because I was going to play, I was going to watch the cricket, which wasn't entirely true. However, it's what I did do, though. I went to watch the cricket and it was all part and parcel of it, yeah. It was eventfully a mate at Chancery. Oh, God, I mean... Actually, it's pretty sad now because it's a wonderful football club, isn't it? But pretty sad the state it's in, you know.

18:39Michael Vaughan: But, wow, he was difficult. Oh, yeah, he's renowned for that. So, Perth, England lose. Remember that night? Yeah, we went to... We meet up with Steve. He's with me. We end up in a casino, didn't we? We did, yeah. It's the Sheffield Derby. And it wasn't on any of the screens, so we're watching the Sheffield Derby. He says to me, the only way we watch Sheffield Derby is in the casino down the road. So we get there, there's every other game on, by the way. Every other game on. It's a massive game, isn't it, in Perth? We're sitting watching this. We're sitting watching your phone, weren't we? Yeah, we were, yeah.

19:13Sir Alastair Cook: I know. I had to go to that koala park a lot of times. Those two-day games. What else are you going to do? You had to go to another koala park, didn't you? Took the missus, you had to see the kangaroos and everything. Two days, wasn't it? I had my father-in-law with me who's 89. She's travelled all that way. Fantastic to get there. And we've got wonderful seats and all the rest of it. And we're thinking now we're going to do at least four days. Day and a half. Disappointing. Then what do you do? And it was cold, eh? Day three and day four was cold. It was fresh, yeah? Yeah, you're right.

19:47Michael Vaughan: What's the equivalent in football? This basball way, this ultra-aggressive way of playing in cricket, that afternoon in Perth, England went for the ultra-aggressive way. What's the equivalent in football? I don't think I've ever seen a radical change that it has done in cricket. I don't think... The way the game is now... Keegan played in Newcastle. Newcastle, perfect. Yeah, you can get teams that are going to be at you and going to come and play with you and all the rest of it and, you know, want to score more than you did.

20:22Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. You know, people talk about Fergie and Fergie time and all the rest of it, about getting a goal late on. I think it was the gambling instinct of Fergie, you know. He was a huge gambler, you know, who always would take the gamble to try and win a draw. It was never any good. So that's why he used to get... If you look at the 99 Cup final, how many forward players are on the pitch at the end? I know they were losing 1-0. is quite amazing. Quite amazing. But you know,

20:49Michael Vaughan: Bas McCullum, he's a big punter as well. He's a big punter too. Yeah, he's a big gambler so he kind of lines with that. I like that though.

20:57Sir Alastair Cook: I like that though. I like that. You know, well, you were talking about the difference.

21:03Michael Vaughan: So Alex managed to win. Yes. Well, you kind of got it. I got it out of that one.

21:10Phil Tufnell: Fair dues. Fair dues. When Bas Ball first came in, They absolutely nailed everybody. And as Ben Stokes in his interview said, we've been rumbled. And so they've got to change it, which they will. They said we're making minor changes. And so you play the situation, don't you? You play the game situation. Well, there you go, Mike.

21:30Sir Alastair Cook: You've always said great teams never play just one way. You can't just find a way to win, don't you? Yeah. The day at Perth, for example, and Hugh might talk about it, but they've put three, four men here. They've kept pulling the children. and the lads kept hitting it down to them. It was like, what do you do? Wow! What are you doing? But there you go. But, hey, it is thoroughly entertaining, though, isn't it? I mean, you go now and the talent of these lads to keep hitting it for six is just remarkable.

22:01Michael Vaughan: But as a cricket fan, what do you want? Do you want entertaining? I think if you ask all the England fans, you know you have a drink afterwards and all the rest of it, the last thing you want is to go there and be all over in two days. You want to win? You want to win? Win! Well, if you win in two days... Well, go to Melbourne and win in two days, everyone's happy, aren't they?

22:21Sir Alastair Cook: Well, I don't know whether you necessarily want to see... And that's why the Aussies hated Basport. I mean, you really got that feeling, didn't you? Because they thought it was sort of disrespecting...

22:33Phil Tufnell: Well, they ridiculed it, didn't they? They ridiculed Basport.

22:37Sir Alastair Cook: You've got to earn it, you've got to get stuck in, you've got to earn it. you know what I mean and that's why I think the Aussies were so delighted when it sort of like unraveled for them a little bit

22:45Phil Tufnell: but they put Kerry as a wicketkeeper up to the stumps and that derailed us we were going to go after Nisa and Bolland down the pitch so Kerry comes up because he's good and stands up to the he keeps you in and now we're stymied and we didn't have a you've got to play the situation I've told you that many times boxing, boxing, boxing you're on the ropes every now and again you're on the ropes and you've got to defend you've got to cover up and then you pick your moment to come out and start throwing some. Cricket's just the same.

23:16Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. So as a football manager, ex-player, you know, when you see things like that in other sports, I know it's hard to say as an ex-footballer. What would you have done? I am... I... When I'm watching the game now, the managerial thing is still there a little bit. I watch what they do with substitutes and how they're changing. It's a bit different now in football because you can have five of them and you can change round. But I just look at what you would do, what you're going to do, what you're going to change. It's like Michael Carrick against Leeds.

23:50He's really, first time, he's really had to do something with it. What's he going to do and what's he going to change? Is he going to go into a two up top or what's he going to change somewhere? Yeah, I'm sure cricket's the same, isn't that? I would have thought, you know. Yeah, look at how they change. Yeah. How he changed. When you are getting beaten, you're up against it. What are you going to do to change it? Yeah, absolutely.

24:13Michael Vaughan: You mentioned Sir Alex would be a gambler. Yeah. You're down, go for it. Yeah. He went for it, though, when he went down. Right. Of course, he would change it straight away if you were down and you were chasing a game. But as I said, if you were drawing, I mean, the famous goals that I scored against Sheffield Wednesday, Pally's crossing it and I'm heading it in the book. I mean, what the hell we're doing? Hell of a cross, wasn't it? It took a deflection, to be fair. But, yeah, I mean, when I think back to it, I'm thinking, why is Pally crossing? Why am I in the box? And that was probably, you know, that we'd scored against you.

24:51And most teams would have probably took it. OK, we've got back in the game. We're one each. Did you ever do a hair dryer treatment? Oh, constantly. What for? Big Pally got it. Big Pally got it more than anybody. because Big Pally was laid back and horizontal really at times. Common tools. Yeah, yeah. You know, training, he was never, ever pushed himself really. Just got through it. Saturday comes along. If you could get Pally wound up a little bit, then he was as good a centre-back. I mean, 6 '4", 6 '5", could run like the wind, naturally head it. He was a wonderful footballer, but he was... And of course, Fergie's the other way.

25:34so he used to get it a lot so would he get it pre-match

25:37Michael Vaughan: to kind of wind him up no you wouldn't get it pre-match it would be you'd tell him how good he is and then 45 minutes later he's absolutely hammering you but the hairdryer came along and do you know when I look back on it now it was like in the finish it was I think he tested you to the limit and if you couldn't deal with him then you were no good to him he enjoyed people coming back at him he enjoyed people Did many of the players go back at him? Well, yeah, yeah. We all had a little dip back at him, but he had to win, like.

26:10Sir Alastair Cook: Because something that's levelled at this England side, isn't it, is this accountability. You know, there's no accountability at the moment, isn't there? Like in Australia. No consequence, isn't there? Yeah, there was no consequence. Obviously, there was a bloody consequence. Well, it was a consequence, yeah. He'd push it to the... Yeah. In training, there was a consequence. Yeah. In the end, he got a... In my time, anyway, he got a group of players, which really were as tough as what he was. When you think of Schmeichel and Ince and Keane and Robson and Cantona and Hughes, it was a team full of...

26:44Mark Hughes up front. Wow, it was a team full of what he wanted, you know. They were all tough as old boots. If you wanted to fight, they could fight. If you wanted to play football, they could play football. But there was a great time in Galatasaray, the famous Galatasaray, where Eric decides that he wasn't happy with a good setting off and he punched the copper, you know. As you do. Standing at the tunnel entrance as you go down the steps in Galatasaray. This is after the match? This is after the match. We've gone out to Galatasaray on away goals and there's this scrap down in these tunnels where they're coming from everywhere and we're getting battered from pillar to post.

27:27And I see Fergie at the top of the stairs. I see this, what's going on. All of a sudden he... LAUGHTER Weigh in to everybody he could come across. And we get in the dressing room, in he comes and... All his hair's went... None of my lads have been fighting, have we? We all went, no, not at all. He went in the bathroom and got his hair, put his tie straight and all the rest of it, goes on the TV. Sir Alex, we believe there's something happened in the tunnel. Well, I've never seen a thing. And that's the way he was, you know, he was... Intimidating place, wasn't it?

28:06Phil Tufnell: Oh, yeah, that's the first time. No, Alex McLeish, Alex McLeish. Yeah. So I met him in a pub down Notting Hill, so we had a beer, he was talking Fergie. He said, up at Aberdeen, he said, well, cricket match. He said, he opens the batting, Fergie opens the batting, he said, he's out, first ball. Oh, no. And he turns round and puts the stumps up and starts again. They said, now you're out. He said, don't you know the rules of cricket? You can't be out off the first ball and carry it on. I don't know the goal and they're like, all right then. Yeah. Yeah.

28:42Michael Vaughan: Galatasaray would be equivalent. I mean, going to Australia as a cricket team is tough. The environment is tough. Yeah, the first time we had, the stadium was full five hours. Five hours before the kick-off. Ooh, why? I mean, absolutely, wow, what is this? You know, thankfully, your wafer went in a little bit and, got a little bit sort of in control because we drew them twice. We drew them twice in either consecutive seasons. But a tough place to play, that's for sure. What about, so in the winter, we were all discussing England's preparation leading into that series. They didn't really have much of a preparation.

29:17Michael Vaughan: They just arrived to play. What was Fergie like on preparation into games? Oh, he was huge on it. I mean, and I think Fergie was the start of rotation too. When I think back of it now, it was the start of it. You know, we talk about squad of players and this, that and the other. If you remember, Man U gave up the FA Cup to try and go and play in the World Club Championship. They felt under pressure from somebody. But it was all about, he was the first to rotate. and yeah, he was, as I said, thinking back to 25, 30 years ago, he was the first to change the team round. It was unheard of back then, you know, your team was this and on you go.

30:04Or you got dropped. But it was all meticulous. I mean, now it comes into the big clubs in particular, all over the world in pre-season. He was, we're not doing that, we're not getting on planes to do that. In the end, it took over because there was that much money involved, Michael, but he was huge on preparation. I think that's a big, big key.

30:23Michael Vaughan: But was it preparing you real tactically? Physically, tactically, but physically, especially pre-season and all the rest of it. His mentality, though, was to win. He was, we're Man United and we are the best team and you are the best players and we've got to prove that week in and week out. The rest of the world don't like us, by the way, but we've got to make sure we're at it. But he would do everything. Oh, yeah, he was meticulous in that respect.

30:52Phil Tufnell: Who else in the team were cricket fans? Did he, you know, in the team that you played? Pally likes his cricket, didn't he? Pally likes his cricket a little bit. Gary Nev? Gary Nev, Phil Neville was supposed to be... Excellent. Yeah, he was supposed to be... They were both. They were both. But Phil was exceptional, wasn't he? Yeah, they were both. I mean, people used to say that Phil was arguably a better cricketer than he was football.

31:14Michael Vaughan: I reckon you were Lanx's coach, wasn't he? He was coming through when Freddie was coming through.

31:18Phil Tufnell: I was sort of with England, younger age groups, right, and we were ready to offer the pair of them and United came in with big money.

31:27Sir Alastair Cook: You know how we play football in the warm-up? Do you guys play cricket in the warm-up? Actually, we used to play at the Villa when I got there. We'd play in the indoors and all the rest of it. Not before a game, but we'd have a go. I don't think it happened at United, but certainly in a couple of the clubs I've been at, we'd have the indoor, you know, because the indoor facilities came along. So good, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:45Phil Tufnell: Well, Fergie stopped the two Neville lads from playing cricket. They'd have gone back to Green Mountain and played, and he said, look, you can't break your finger. Well, he saw the headlines. By the way, he wouldn't let us play golf either. No, he wouldn't. He wouldn't let you play golf. Because I think he always thought that we were as bad as what he was at the golf, and he used to exhaust him.

32:03Michael Vaughan: He used to take 200 shots. Gary put on that record stand with Matt Hayden. He did. 300 and whatever, 67. Yeah, for Green Mountain. And it was on the back page of the news, and that's when Fergie found it. Oh, is it Gary who did that? Yeah, for Greenland, Gary. That's his last ever game.

32:18Sir Alastair Cook: They broke all the Afferton's records and Crawley's records. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were decent.

32:24Michael Vaughan: What was Fugues, again, going to this England create team, Baspercon, all out attack, attack, attack, attack. And you say Fergie was a, you know, get on the front foot and attack. Did he ever get you in the draft? Hang on a minute, hang on a minute. You know what we're talking about, attack, attack, attack. One of the big things he did when we played Barcelona in 91, arguably their player who it all revolved on was Koeman. Ronald Koeman, remember Ronald Koeman, Dutchman? What a fabulous footballer he was. And he was at centre-half, really. But he was the first to step out and play like a midfield player.

32:55And everything that Barcelona did came through him. So Fergie got our centre-forward, Brian McClare, to man-mark Ronald Koeman. And I've never heard that before, ever, that a centre-forward man-marked their centre-half. And every time he got it, Brian McClare just went and man-marked him. And that was back in 1991. and stopped Barcelona from playing the way they wanted to play. Was that the final? That was the final, yeah. We won 2-1. Hueses scored that goal. Yeah, yeah. It's gone out of the game, that man, Mark.

33:26Phil Tufnell: Didn't he do the same with Pirot? He said, you're not... Pirot? Pirot? Pirlo. Pirlo. Pirlo. Pirlo.

33:34Sir Alastair Cook: Pirlo. Pirlo. Pirlo. Pirlo. Pirlo.

33:39Phil Tufnell: Yeah, the midfield player. The midfield player. The Italian had played for the event. And my mum asked him, I'm not bothered about you kicking the ball, make sure he doesn't. I wasn't. I didn't play against that. I wasn't there then. So he was aware. He always wanted a team to play. But if there was something that he could do to stop the opposition, then of course he'd have something up his sleeve. And that day in particular won us the thing, really, because it stopped Koeman and it did stop them playing the way they wanted to play.

34:14Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Bedford.

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34:59Phil Tufnell: How do you deal in a football team with a maverick player who's a brilliant player and a bit different than the rest and he might get away with little bits and so on? Well, I think a I played with the ultimate Maverick in Cantona. Yeah, yeah. But you know, Cantona was totally different off the pitch and all the rest of it. But as an absolute train, the way he trained and the way he played, he was exemplary. He used to carry around a big bag, you know, and we used to think, what the hell's in the bag? And it was all supplements and vitamins and this, that and the other. Right. So he took it really, really seriously.

35:36Everything he did about training was thoroughly serious. However, as we've seen many times, to say the chin, the policeman, we'd all love to be a bit of a maverick, wouldn't we? And I thought that's where Fergie was at his best, when managing him. And he managed him fantastically well. What did he do with him? Well, he was never late. He was never like a maverick who wasn't a drinker. No. You know, so he didn't get into trouble that way, where most of us, you're either late or you've been out.

36:13Sir Alastair Cook: Why did you look at Tuffers? Well, no, no. I've heard a few of the stories, I don't know. I've just got to look at that. But I was amazed when I... I've been friends with Johnny Best for years, and I remember when we went to Barbados, he came out in the middle of the Test match. We only went to the house I was staying in, and he'd come and had dinner with us and you were allowed. And it wasn't until I thought, wow, if we were playing away from home, we'd all have to eat together at 7 o 'clock and eat the same thing and all the rest of it. But I suppose you guys, when yous are away so often, you must get under each other's nerves.

36:57So you're invited out, you know. You're allowed out.

36:59Phil Tufnell: A test cricketer's day is a minimum nine hours, a minimum nine hours. Five days. Yeah. And then you have two, three days off and you do it again. That's totally different than from the football match to prepare for a game, an hour and a half, or a discipline like riding a bicycle, five minutes. You know, it's totally different. But he managed them in a certain way where probably Howard Wilkinson, for example, didn't want to put up with them, I suppose, because, but if you're a maverick, I do believe one thing you have to be. Good. At top, yeah, very, very good. If you're very, very, you have to be the best.

37:42If you're the best, if you're the best like he was, I've never seen anybody walk into Old Trafford and literally put their collar up and say, this is my stage. And he did it. What was he like on the pitch? Did he say much on the pitch? Oh, he was, no, he never said much. He was quiet, quiet by nature. He was very, very quiet. Great. But when he... And by the way, we were... Yeah, he was... You've got colour as well. Yeah, he was colour. He could back it up. He was six foot three. Was he? Six foot three, big, powerful. Yeah, huge. Was he rapid? Was he quick? Quick, great balance, touch. Great in the air.

38:23He had the lot, but he had this... Kicking people. Yeah. He had this, yeah. It's funny, though, the Maverick, though. Do you know? They're one of them. the one of them where, you know when he jumped in the crowd? Were you there? I was going to ask. I was actually suspended, so I wasn't actually there. However, however, he gets sent to prison, you know, and gets out on appeal. So he had to do 100 hours working in Salford, in the community. Yeah, yeah. Right? He ended up, after three hours, working in this jumble sale shop behind a till or whatever, and he comes in the next morning and he comes walking in, he's very, very quiet by nature, and he comes in and he said to me, Steve, I should have gone to fucking prison.

39:17Can't stand that. Can't do 100 hours in this shop. What's going to happen to me? He was banned for eight months, wasn't he, or something? He was banned for nine months, by the way. If he wasn't banned, we would have won the double in 1985. We've done it in 1994. We would have done it again in 1995 if he had been around.

39:38Michael Vaughan: Bruce, so this England management have had a winter where they've been hammered. By the way, is it true that all the England people who are in charge now are all slightly maverick? There's a maverick group, yeah. You say Ben and Baz, they're mavericks. Rob Key's a bit Maverick-y. Yeah. Director of cricket. You would say that, wouldn't you? Yeah.

39:59Phil Tufnell: Would you say Ben's a Maverick? Yeah. Would you? Yeah. I think he might be changing. Yeah, maybe he's changing.

40:06Sir Alastair Cook: I think he's strong.

40:07Michael Vaughan: Well, what I'm saying is that Sir Alex, for out his...

40:09Sir Alastair Cook: Well, yeah, yeah, determined. For out his period. He's a leader. Yeah.

40:12Michael Vaughan: Yeah. Oh, yeah, an absolute leader.

40:14Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah.

40:14Michael Vaughan: He always managed to either get rid of a player or two to create a bolt or change the backroom team. You know, he changes the system. And I'm looking at this England management. everything's the same Do you know he was he changed and I can understand after being in management maybe you do maybe you do get tired of her voice especially if you you never really would be a one for coaching though Sir Alex was never really his number two was that Yeah and when I look back at Archie Knox to start with was huge influence with Sir Alex and there was Kiddo of course and then it was McLaren and then there was of course there was Rennie?

40:54There was lots and he used to change it round and I think there was a method in that, that it wouldn't be, it would be a freshness to the group. And of course his biggest strength of all though was the realisation of when it needs changing and when do you, I mean Man City have gone through it now haven't they? where last year they went through it. They've had a change. And you have to say the genius of them to let Hughes, Ince, Kocelskis go in 85 and replace them with the kids is arguably the greatest piece of management that there's ever been. If you would have told me these five lads are going to go and play for Man United for the next 10 years and go and win trebles and doubles and win the European Cup, I would have said, no chance.

41:40Sir Alastair Cook: So is that because he's like a... We were just discussing it about this new term in the selectors, weren't we? Is that because he had an eye? He obviously had an eye. I mean, listen, he let Yapstam go. He wouldn't talk about centre-backs. He let Yapstam because he wrote something in a book about, you know, he criticised the Nevels or something, didn't he? He thought, how dare you, you know? He had this way of, yeah, but he always seemed to find, You look at the signings now, Dennis Irwin from Oldham played for 12 years, Schmeichel 10 years, myself 10 years, Pally for 10 years, Roy Keane for 8-10 years, Incy for...

42:21He seemed to get that right. The recruitment side of it as well is the part of management, which now you see head coach. Other people are doing that now, you would think. So it was all in the mix. What about when two players in the team don't get on? He never minded that. He never minded that. Look, I'm sure you've been cricket. There's people you're going to side along. You don't have to be the best pals of people. I lived next door to Schmeichel for the best part of eight years. You were mad as a marching air at times, you know. But there was a respect there. But the team was all that he, on a Saturday, the team was vitally important to him.

43:05And how do you create this?

43:06Phil Tufnell: you do get that in cricket don't you in a squad of players that two don't actually oh yeah but the one word is respect it must be more difficult in cricket because as you say there's a long time together long day when you go on tour for three and four months like a football team you go away for a week you're done in because basically you're only training for an hour a day

43:28Sir Alastair Cook: you've got a lot of time to kill you've got a lot of time I've always thought about cricket in other sports yeah cricket you're playing day in and day out day in and day out You haven't got the time to kill. Which is then when you retire, I think it becomes harder because footballers, no disrespect to footballers, they are used to killing time. I don't think cricketers are great at killing time. That's why they play golf for a reason, that's why. Absolutely.

43:49Phil Tufnell: Get away. Get away from the game. Getting back to what's happening at Langs, they have on the board, they don't have cricket knowledge and expertise and soul and understanding cricketers. They might have a business acumen, but you need that knowledge of cricket to bounce off the people who are in charge of the cricket it's dead simple you'd think that in football clubs as well though wouldn't you you know people taking over and okay getting me hugely successful in your business but don't know anything about football why they don't get people involved is beyond me yeah

44:20Michael Vaughan: Bruce you were there when Stokes you played that innings is that right 2019 or you saw no it was my it was my first win as a Newcastle manager we played Spurs away when... Yeah, was it a Sunday afternoon? It was a Sunday afternoon when he got a Saturday night. Half past two when he hit the last run.

44:42Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, beautiful. What's three o 'clock kick-off? Three o 'clock kick-off. I was sitting watching... You take the warm-up. It was at Tottenham, we actually played Spurs away. I remember watching it and thought, come on Stokesy, get them before we start. And anyway, we won 1-0. I think it was my first win as a Newcastle manager. Tottenham away. Remember it vividly.

45:08Phil Tufnell: When I was playing at Lanks, so in the 60s, 70s, Matt Busby was around at the time. And then Wilf McGuinness took over for a little period. Dave Sexton came as manager. George Ordon's up front. Gordon McQueen, his centre-half. We would interchange. Nobby Styles Old Trafford Old Trafford I've been in that dressing room half an hour 40 minutes before they go out I think that's gone now you'd never ever get that you'd never ever get we would go in the players lounge after Bestie Dennis Lowe Bobby Charlton we'd go in the lounge just walking I mean there's no chance of that

45:50Sir Alastair Cook: middle six and the Arsenal used to be a little bit like that what's happening to the Gunners Phil what's happening to the Gunners Phil what has happened tell me though How did it work back in the day when you're talking about that? Isn't that people played for England football team and then played for the cricket team in the summer? Compton did that, didn't they? Dennis Compton. Dennis Compton, Arsenal. Was it a Boulton or something? Chris Boulton?

46:10Phil Tufnell: Chris Boulton didn't play for England, but he played football. He played football for Leicester City and Leicestershire. Beefy played for Scunthorpe. I played for Carlisle. Beefy turned out for Scunthorpe. I played against him. By the way, I played against him. He played. I played against him. I played against him when I was at Gillingham as a kid and Beefy was playing centre-back. He was absolutely ferocious in what he did, by the way. But, yeah, I remember playing against Scunthorpe on a horrible afternoon in, yeah. You've got to remember that at that time, Beefy was some specimen. He was a big guy.

46:48Phil Tufnell: But he was fit and strong. You know, when you talk about Mavericks from the outside and I've had the pleasure to meet him a few times, He was unbelievable, wasn't he? Still is. Still is. Still is.

47:00Michael Vaughan: What kind of centre-half would, if you could describe Beefy now? Is there a centre-half playing today that's Beefy? No, no, no. To be fair, he was never going to come and step out with a ball and find a pass. He was blood and thunder. Don't tell him that. Could he nut it? Oh, he would try to nut it. He would try to nut it. He'd come up here and... I wouldn't tell him that at the time. but he was big and aggressive and strong and a big lump he was as well, by the way. But, yeah, I played against him and it must have been 79, 80, something like that was the time, you know. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair.

47:44Michael Vaughan: What advice would you give the England cricket team now in terms of the start? How can I get advice? You've managed thousands of people in your life. What would you carry? For me, about management is now, if I'm managing you three or four, it's how do I get the best out of you and you and you. But there's certain times when I'm looking at how England played when I've seen them in Perth, for example, and just as a layman, I couldn't understand. People are bowling and they've got four waiting down, waiting to catch you. I couldn't understand why you'd go after that, why you just didn't let it go.

48:23but I always think about management as getting the best out of what you've got to work with and of course we all want to play a certain way I mean one of the biggest jobs I had was Newcastle of course and I'm a Newcastle lad and I knew what the Geordies wanted they wanted a team that was up and at you you know a certain crowd they want a bit of blood and thunder and we were the total opposite we would sit defensively would sit deep, play the back five, not very good to watch. But my remit was to keep Newcastle in the Premier League. And I would love to have a team that would come and make Newcastle, maybe not this season, but the last two, three seasons, which are competing for trophies and competing in the Champions League to play a certain way.

49:11I was totally opposite because of what we had at the time. I didn't have a team. So would you adapt your staff? I think you have to. You know, we talk about Amarin and I think he got bogged down that he had to play this certain way and maybe didn't have the players who could play that way.

49:30Sir Alastair Cook: So you'd go in, you'd get the Sheffield Wednesday job or whatever job you got, Sheffield, whatever job, and then you go, right, I look at my team, this is the best team. You don't come in and go, I'm playing the Baz McCullum, Baz ball, no matter what I've got. You have to go, right, these are the players. Absolutely. When I went to Newcastle, I took over from Rafa Benitez and really didn't want to change much because the whole thing was set up to play five at the back and play three big centre-backs. So it was, well, OK, I'm not going to really change it. I would love to change it, but we haven't got the money.

50:04And basically, now, managers don't get the time. Don't think you get the time to implement what you want to implement. I mean, look, Vincent Kompany is maybe totally different because he went to Burnley and played a certain way and they romped the championship and everybody was thinking, what are they going to do now in the big league? Are they going to play exactly the same way? And he stuck with his principles and played the same way. A bit like basketball. They're open. If you watch Bayern Munich now, they're fantastic to watch, by the way. Open. And he stuck with his principles and then gets the Bayern Munich job.

50:38So maybe there is something in that. But I would look at what I had how do I get the best out of it and see what we can do.

50:47Sir Alastair Cook: How long do you reckon a manager needs? Like there's 18 months is a long time. Yeah, we say 80 months is a long time then possibly you have three transfer windows. Not long enough.

50:59Phil Tufnell: You probably need... Just getting back to cricket and the way that England play cricket and the comparison with football, would a player challenge that management and say, look, this isn't working?

51:12Michael Vaughan: you know we got to do it well I can only look at so Chris Wokes who obviously retired yeah he came out with an interview recently and he said he wished it had been strong and stronger in the dressing room at times when it wasn't going quite as well as they wanted to yeah he wished they stuck his arm so we need to change this yeah because it's a small spot winning but I suppose though didn't he have a wonderful start and it was fresh and you did really really well And you did really well. Yeah. OK. Does anybody, excuse my ignorance in this, does anybody else play like England now? Do they all have a hint of it?

51:48Michael Vaughan: I think Australia try and get on the front foot when they can. Yeah, they do. They always do. They all try. India try when they can.

51:54Sir Alastair Cook: I think England have definitely opened a can of worms. Not a can of worms, but definitely suggested, if you do get on top and you're 200 for two, there is a chance now to go. And I think sides are looking in a two-hour session to really bury the opposition more than they've ever done in the past. I know Australia back in the day will say, well, when we had Langer, Hayden, all that great side, they did that anyway. Warner McGrath. But I think a lot now, there's a chance to get on top.

52:20Michael Vaughan: Scoring rates are naturally over fours. Whereas in our time, if you scored at over threes... It's a good day, wasn't it? No, over fours is just the norm. Whereas England, for a period... Close to five. They've been about five, sixes. Bruce, what about management? I see Roy Hodgson's gone back in recently. How's he got on? Is he all right? Bristol, isn't it? But Martin's flying the flag, Martin O 'Neill's flying the flag. At Celtic, yeah. And, you know, I can never say never, but I honestly believe that I've had my time in it. I thoroughly enjoy it and still love it to this day, but I think there comes a time when you have to say, you know, so you'll never say never.

53:04I could never say never.

53:04Michael Vaughan: If there was one call that came and you couldn't say no. Maybe something like an international. I had a conversation with the Irish a few years ago. Would you believe before Steve McLaren, I had a chat with the Jamaican FA and went for Steve McLaren in the end. How good is that? I'll be in number two. Do you know something? So the World Cup is in America and Mexico and Canada this year. So Jamaica had a wonderful opportunity, and Steve must have thought the same way, of getting Jamaica to the World Cup because Jamaica have got a lot of talent. A lot of their players play in the Premier League because if you're Jamaican back in the day, they all get a chance now to play for England.

53:50If they don't play for England, they'll go back to their origins and go and play for their nans or grands team. And they'll play. They've got some very, very good players. So they were disappointed that they didn't qualify. Viv played for Antigua. Did he? Yeah.

54:06Phil Tufnell: Football for Antigua? Yeah, he did. So maybe that. Yeah, an international job. Maybe that because you play six, seven games a year and you have the enthusiasm. But I think it's having that enthusiasm day in and day out.

54:21Sir Alastair Cook: Who was a centre-half? I don't mean to bring this up, Steve, but who's absolutely skinned you alive? Who didn't you fancy? Do you know something? Do you know something that probably you were the same in cricket? you remember you remember the dark days don't you where you've had a hot stinker and one of the Barcelona we drew Barcelona I think it was in 85 and we were playing against the mighty Barcelona in their stadium it's one of the big games I think it was 120 ,000 there that day I think it was knockout might have been knockout wherever the Champions League was it was that long ago but the boy Romario who were a memory of the Brazilian.

55:05Yeah, little fella. Little fella, yeah. He was only this big. Couldn't get hold of him. Oh, wow. And his sidekick was Stoichkov, so the Bulgarians. So they had Romario and Stoichkov and they were ripped us, playing Pally to pieces. We got beat 4-0, it could have been 14. And you know, when you look back on him, you think, the big game, the big occasion, and all the rest of it. The pair of us were shite.

55:35Sir Alastair Cook: Well, what do you do in that situation, though, with your mate? Well, you want your mate to play well and he was just as bad as me. And it was that stupid rule as well where the foreign... You were classed as foreign. So Kant and Schmeichel were sitting up in the stands because you couldn't allow... You weren't too many foreign players or wherever it was. That stupid rule. Anyway, we got murdered by... Have you ever seen the footage of Maradona juggling the ball? Oh, yeah, yeah. You've seen him juggling it? Romario was doing that on the way in the tunnel, you know, he was like, oh, my God. As you were going out?

56:08As you were going out, bouncing off his head like this.

56:11Michael Vaughan: Shit! Do you look at, like, some England caps now? They do hand out a lot of England caps. Do you ever look back and think... I never got in a squad, never mind a cap. In 85... 95, In 1995, Brian Robson was assistant to Terry Venables and they rang me. They were playing Nigeria, I think, in a friendly at the end of a season in 1995. He rang me and Brian said, I've had a word with Terry and I said, Brian, thanks, but I just don't want it as a sympathy one, you know. I don't want it as a sympathy vote. So I said no to her. As I said, I didn't want a sympathy vote, but in 94, I had a bigger chance to play for Ireland.

57:00You remember, 94, USA, 94. Under Big Jack. Big Jack. Big Jack got wind up. My mother was Irish. And I really, really thought, well, I said I would go, and then Fergie put the block on it because I would have been foreign. I would have been classed as a foreign. I would have been a foreigner.

57:21Sir Alastair Cook: Good side that was as well, wasn't it? Yeah, good side. You're only allowed so many in the... Three, it was three. I swear it was three. That's what I'm saying, when we played Barcelona, Cantona and Schmeichel were sitting in the stands. Who's better than them? The Irish were playing, I really don't know. Surely Cantona and Schmeichel first on them. Scotsman, we had Scotsman, Irish, Welsh. All them were classed as foreign. Giggsie, I remember it. Yeah, Giggsie was foreign. Who were they going to play? That's tactics as a coach.

57:48Phil Tufnell: Who's your best England cricketer that you've seen? Oh... Present company excluded. All these were great, weren't they? But I suppose...

58:03Botham... Botham, Freddie... Peterson. Peterson, yeah. I've seen him play a magnificent innards at Edenley. This is like Ben Stokes' up there, you know? Yeah, and I think that one in particular... Bowlers. Bowlers. Jimmy's got... It'd have to be Jimmy, wouldn't it? Beefy. Beefy, Broad. Willis, Bob Willis. Bob Willis, yeah. I've seen them too. But I think them ones, I think Stokes and Botham. Yeah, the all-rounders. They've got something about... They were a bit, yeah.

58:40Michael Vaughan: That Maverick. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. We've got a couple more segments, Brucey. This one is this or that. Oh, Jesus. Right, so you've got to decide. There you go. Score a last-minute winner in a time-weigh derby or score an Ashes-winning 100 at the over? Oh, go on. Well, I've managed Sunday in Newcastle and they're both miserable at the time. So I'm going to have to say... No, I'm only kidding. I would have to say, oh, 100 at Lord's. Not that I would ever get anywhere near it. I don't think I would have the ability to play at Lourdes, but it must be to score 100 at Lourdes would be absolutely...

59:20Against the Aussies. Against two of the Aussies. We'll give it to the Aussies, yeah.

59:24Michael Vaughan: Did you get 100 at Lourdes? You got loads. Oh, I got, yeah. You got loads. They get 100 at Lourdes. Oh, did you? Not against Australia. No, I didn't against the Aussies. I never scored. Not against the Aussies, no. Oh, there you go.

59:36Sir Alastair Cook: In England, I never got 100.

59:37Michael Vaughan: You were on the board, didn't you? You got Fyfer against Sri Lanka, didn't you? Very good side they were at the time. Yeah, they were. Were they professional? No, you're cheating, Pastor. Professional. Aravinda. Ranatunga. This or that, Bruce? Who was the one who slung it? Malinga. Malinga the slinger. Yeah, Malinga the slinger. There you go. Keep a clean sheet and draw or concede five and win? Oh. Concede five and win. Win. That never happened, eh? But that never happened to me, but I had plenty, plenty, nil-nil draws. Facing over from Joffre or man mark Eric for 90 minutes? Oh, dear me. I would have likely been a bit younger if I was playing against Joffre, I would have to say, but him whistling it down.

1:00:25I think I'd have to play against Eric. I wouldn't fancy him whistling it down at 90 mile an hour. Wow. What about the lads who used to bat? When I watch it now, when I watch it, especially the West Indies when I was a kid and that, when I watch the lads coming out with no helmet on now, it gives me the freaks. Do you know what I mean? I look at it now and think... Who know what you mean? Shit yourself. Yeah, absolutely. You must absolutely shit yourself. Freaking hell. I don't think they're allowed. When did that happen then? When did it become that you must wear a helmet? Do you have to wear a helmet?

1:01:02You have to wear a helmet now, don't you?

1:01:03Sir Alastair Cook: You have to wear a helmet now. We started wearing something in 1985.

1:01:08Phil Tufnell: There was a great Test Match special interview with Fred Truman when helmets came in. He said, I'd refuse to bowl at somebody who had helmets on. They're soft. I remember the other great England captain as well where he just let her keep hitting them. Closer. Oh, close. Round class.

1:01:27Sir Alastair Cook: Wasn't he like 50 as well, come out of retirement? I'm 46. 46. Come on, face the West Indies. Come on, mate. He played for six years. In Old Trafford.

1:01:34Phil Tufnell: He hadn't played for five years.

1:01:36Sir Alastair Cook: He hadn't played for ages, I swear.

1:01:37Phil Tufnell: That's right, isn't he? He hadn't played for England. He was still playing.

1:01:39Sir Alastair Cook: He hadn't played for England for ages. No. Come out, mate. Who brought him back? Don't tell me you did.

1:01:45Michael Vaughan: No. Raylingworth. Who? Greggy. Tony Gray. Ben Stokes or Ian Botham? Oh, dear me. Big one, that. That's a big one. That's not...

1:01:58Phil Tufnell: You're going Botham, aren't you? On the telly now, they go to an advert, won't they? Shall we have to the break? Or how can you split them? But I'm going to go both of them, probably.

1:02:09Michael Vaughan: Both of them. This is a funny one.

1:02:10Sir Alastair Cook: He got about 35.5 for England, didn't he, in both of them?

1:02:13Michael Vaughan: Yeah, he did. And what did he get? A hundred? Sixteen hundreds? Four, yeah. Four, yeah.

1:02:19Sir Alastair Cook: I'm going 14, as I guess. Plenty.

1:02:22Michael Vaughan: Only ever go on holiday to places where you've managed a football team or never watched cricket again.

1:02:30Sir Alastair Cook: I don't get that. Well, where's he managed? By the way... Sheffield. Yeah, Sheffield. Newcastle.

1:02:37Michael Vaughan: I've been some... You need the Jamaica job.

1:02:41Sir Alastair Cook: You haven't done anywhere else. You haven't done a UAE-like... No, no, I've never been outside the... Consulting. I've never seen outside the country, but... Barbera should be a good team to manage. Oh, lovely. That would be nice, wouldn't it? Yeah.

1:02:52Michael Vaughan: Yeah, that would be all right. Wow. That's a bit of time involved. Yeah, yeah, why not? Go on, are you going to go for never watching cricket again? or going on holiday to Newcastle. I'm never watching cricket again, I think. Right, community questions. You've got to rank these sporting partnerships. So I'm giving you five partnerships and we've got to rank them one to five. One being the best, right? One being the best. Right, Torvald and Dean. Stokes and Leach. Stokes and Leach? Stokes, when he got that one run. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, when he got one run. Yeah. Warnham McGrath. Oh. Cookie and Strauss, Bruce and Pallister.

1:03:34Well, I'm going to go Bruce and Pallister fifth. Torval and Dean fourth. I would have to say, would them two Australians be? Yeah, they've got to be number one. Warner and McGrath had to be, yeah.

1:03:48Michael Vaughan: Number one, those two. Those two are number one. I'm having Torval and Dean up there. They were good, Torval and Dean.

1:03:54Sir Alastair Cook: Did they only, would they win everything? They were great, weren't they? Bolero. Yeah. Bolero. They were fantastic. They're still doing it now, aren't they? They're hard work, haven't they? It's slippy, isn't it?

1:04:05Phil Tufnell: Have you done it? No, they asked me to. Dangerous. If you're on ice like that, it's very slippy. They both fell over at the end, though, didn't they? Yeah. Oh, I'd have fallen over.

1:04:18Michael Vaughan: Number one, Warner McGrath. Yeah. I'm having you and Pallister, I'm telling you, up there. I'm sorry. Second. Don't be so obvious.

1:04:26Phil Tufnell: Cookie and Strauss, third.

1:04:28Michael Vaughan: Yeah.

1:04:29Sir Alastair Cook: Torval and Dean?

1:04:30Phil Tufnell: Yeah.

1:04:31Sir Alastair Cook: Torval and Dean won. They did it once.

1:04:35Michael Vaughan: Exactly. We were only good once. Can't take down Torval and Dean. Sorry. I think they've got to be third ever. Wow. Stokes and Leach's. That was a hell of an innings. The greatest innings I've ever seen. The greatest innings I've ever seen.

1:04:49Sir Alastair Cook: It's the best one I've ever seen. How long did he stay there? It seemed like he stayed there. It was 76 rounds, wasn't it? I'm going 76.

1:04:56Michael Vaughan: How many balls did he face? 60-odd? No, 20-odd. Hell of a not. One night out. Was it? All right, so we'll see. Warner McGrath, Bruce and Palace to one and two. A few more questions, Bruce. Who's the best player you've ever managed? Best player I've ever managed was a Frenchman by the name of Christophe Dugary, who was a maverick. And he'd come and played for Birmingham. I was manager of Birmingham. And I showed him a game. We had played Aston Villa on a Monday night. And we had just got in the Premier League and it was all about staying in the Premier League. And Christophe was a World Cup winner.

1:05:31And when I got the phone call that Christophe Dugre, he's going to come and play for Birmingham. Anyway, he ended up on a plane and I picked him up from Birmingham Airport and I took him back to this rented house I was in Birmingham at the time. And we were just having a conversation. I said, Eric, listen, we're up against it. Christophe, we're up against it. His best mate was Zidane, by the way. And I'm sitting off him thinking, he's never going to sign for us. and I get him a cup of tea and my missus is out, so I'm looking for biscuits or something like that in front of me, you know what I mean, to give them.

1:06:05And I ended up with his rich tea, right? So I put them in the plate with him. Anyway, after about an hour we were talking, he said, I'll say him tomorrow. I'm marring like that, I'll say him tomorrow. He said, but the biscuits are absolutely shite. He was right as well. He was right as well. So Christophe Dugary, for six months, he was unbelievable for me. He kept us in the division and had Jeff Horsfield alongside him with Bricklayer from Barnsley. Oh, yeah. He used to come, where the hell have we got him from? Just tell him to get the ball and I'll do all the running. And I said, OK, Jeff, we'll try it.

1:06:44He was really good, yeah.

1:06:46Michael Vaughan: Right, who are going to win the Football World Cup this summer? Oh, jeez.

1:06:56The French are very, very good again, aren't they? The Spanish. And then you're never going to rule out one of the South American teams.

1:07:07Michael Vaughan: England got a chance? Yeah. We must have a chance because of the personnel we've got. I just have this thing about all the lads who play in the Premier League. They've played so much football that when it comes to it in the end, you just hope that they're fresh enough to because it's the Premier League the Premier League is so demanding especially with the top lads who play they never stop playing you know they play Saturday Tuesday Saturday and now the public think oh well they should be after the season they're exhausted they've played 60 60 games 60, 70 games then you've got to get ready and prepared for the biggest one of all so we've got a chance that's for sure with a team we've got This is the last question.

1:07:52Michael Vaughan: It's from a gym. A gym? She's called Jim R from London. She's called Jim? No, Jim. Jim R. He said, should I keep Michael Carrick as manager next year?

1:08:04Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, right. Sorry. Well, I've got it. Sincerely, I hope he gets it. Why not? He's certainly put himself in pole position. He gets the club. He understands the club. He's been there, played it, so I hope so. If I was... Why not? Why not? Bruce, brilliant.

1:08:29Michael Vaughan: Thank you so much for coming on. No problem. That's been great. Cheers, David. Thank you. Thank you.

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