Walsh & Ambrose: Greatest Fast Bowlers, Lara & West Indies Future! | Stick to Cricket EP 52

0:00Michael Vaughan: Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. Morning, morning. Oh, look at these.

0:10David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Morning, morning.

0:11Michael Vaughan: Good morning, good morning.

0:13Phil Tufnell: Cat, there's some big lads coming in.

0:15Michael Vaughan: Oh, don't let him know, don't let him know. Got a couple of chairs. Two chairs. Two chairs.

0:20Phil Tufnell: There's some big lads coming in. Really? Who's coming in? Sit down Phil.

0:24Michael Vaughan: Sit down, sit down.

0:25Sir Alastair Cook: Sit down Phil. Two big lads coming in now. Big, fast and nasties. Oh, rapid. Rapid. Bounce. I've got an idea. Hunting in pairs. Hunting in pairs. Give me a clue. 46. 46? What do you mean, 46? He wasn't there. Were you there for that? He was there. Yeah, Bumble was there. No, you weren't. No, I wasn't. No, you weren't. That was like, it was the first time they were like paratubers. The last six batters, are you talking about... Oh, oh. LAUGHTER Jesus Christ. Where was that? Trinidad. Yeah. 46. The last six batters were all sat... You know, you sit upstairs, all helmets, all pads up, all padded up, just waiting to go.

1:18Sir Alastair Cook: Last six? Yeah. I've never seen anything like it in my life. I'd gone round to get some corn soup, I came back, it was all over. Phil, they're here. Look who's in here. Oh, Jesus Christ, Jesus. There's a mismatch. Good morning. How are you? All right, man? Mr Gugud? Good to see you, buddy. Mr Walsh, sir. Do you remember this? Yes, I do. LAUGHTER Master, how are you? Toughard. Good to be here. Good to be here. It's Phil Ducking, what's going on here? What's wrong with you? You haven't even got the cherry. LAUGHTER Gee, we got a couple of bowlers here. Oh, have we? We got a couple of big heads here.

1:52Sir Alastair Cook: Is there any piercing the hooker?

1:54Michael Vaughan: That was like one of y 'all. It's hard, isn't it? It's hard. Hardball. Do you want a brew or tea? Coffee? I'm good for no. No, I'm fine for no, thank you very much. Harry, we're all right, I'll have a brew.

2:04Sir Alastair Cook: Might get a drop of water, though. Water and coffee. Yes, yes. Do you get nervous, stuffers? Jesus, you should make me nervous. Oh, dear. I wrote a will, you know. Really? Yes, first time I toured West Indies, never had a will. I wrote a will two days before. I did, I did. I phoned up my solicitor and said, right, I'm going to the West Indies. I need to get me affairs in order. I need to get me affairs in order. Or because of him. I've always taken care of you, toughers. Oh, no. I'm the calm one.

2:40David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Toughers, which one was worse?

2:43Sir Alastair Cook: Well, just everything. It was just the whole atmosphere. used to get me. Was that the double arm guard? Double arm guard. I tried to wear two helmets

2:52Michael Vaughan: but I couldn't fit one. Before we get started I'd like to thank our partners Betfair. So just hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

3:08Michael Vaughan: Who took the most important wickets for the West Indies? Wars.

3:15Sir Alastair Cook: He's come in, he's got a pint of Guinness and cracked two eggs into it, like that. And it was like my second game playing for Middlesex. Well, I ran out of the pub. Some reporter came to me and asked me, Mr Ambus, is it true that your mum rings the bell every time you take a wicket? And I was like, how the hell should I know? I'm not home.

3:36Phil Tufnell: Is the unity between the islands or is it still a bit fractious? I'm from Antigua and I want Antiguan to play. He's from Jamaica, he wants Jamaicans to play. So that inter-Island rivalry, too much politics. What was your signal? Well, I'm not playing now so I can give the signal. You just touch my toes. Like stretching? Like I'm stretching. I'm playing against him on lashings next week.

3:55David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I'm having no stretch, right? Next test match, I got him out twice. Third test match, I got him out twice. Fourth test match, I got him out twice. The fifth test match, they dropped him. So England got me off two wickets. MUSIC

4:15Michael Vaughan: Phil, come on. Four arm guards. You're waiting to bat to face these two, number 11. Just talk us through your process as you wait. There was no process.

4:25Sir Alastair Cook: Well, listen, I used to get my pads on about five down. LAUGHTER I used to just see it coming. Oh, no. One question now for you, though. With a fag? Did you have the fag? I used to get through about 200. There was a big pile in the corner like that. Oh, mate, these two, wow. They were the best, mate. Toss up, mate.

4:50Phil Tufnell: They were the best. Dewey or others and that. Come back in, what are we doing? Batting. He go, oh, fucking hell. I know, I know.

4:58Sir Alastair Cook: I can still remember that Trinidad game. Robin Smith played the most immaculate forward defence. God bless Robin. the most immaculate, you know, judgy, you know, like that. He went, bang, forward defence. Middle stump was out of the ground. I've got, how's he missed it? Was that him? Oh, was it? That was you. That was you. Well, I get lucky once in a while. No, but I mean, I think I turned around to Jack or someone like that and said, Robbie, has he got a hole in his back? It was amazing forward defence.

5:31Michael Vaughan: Do you know when he walked out the bat, Tuffman number 11, what was the conversation on the field? Don't, don't. From you, Quicks, was it... Give me the ball. Just give me the ball. It was, give us the ball. What will he be doing? He'll be going backwards or forwards? He'll be going one side or the other. And leaving the stumps exposed. I remember playing a game against him and he did that and I followed him, you know, just for fun. He said, come on, Walsh, you know what to do. Hit those balls.

5:58Sir Alastair Cook: Did you just say, Phil, there you go, just leave them there for you? Wow, you know, you know. Desi said, I can remember I was playing with Desmond Haynes before we played for Middlesex and myself and Angus, we were sort of packing up last game of the season and sort of gone, Des, you know, see you soon, we're coming over like that. And he said, I've told the boys, don't bother bowling at the stumps for the first two overs when you come out. I went, nah, what are you talking about? He said, no, no, no. He said, don't bother, we won't be bowling at the stumps. And they didn't. They're just trying to get me.

6:34Phil Tufnell: I was rotted away. Just imagine that, he's talking about Desmond Haynes and two county cricket overseas players forever. Oh, absolutely. They played forever, didn't they? They played county cricket forever. And you're a county cricket opener and you're coming up against these two. And you're coming up against Wayne Daniel and Andy Roberts and Michael Alden and all that. Crikey. I know. Mike Proctor, Richard Adley. How many years did you do at Gloucester? I did 14 in season at Gloucester. Forever? Forever. He's a bit loco, you know. I did six at North Hans. And I was saying that maybe four years too many.

7:1119 Augusta was like... It was Augusta forever.

7:14Phil Tufnell: Was Lammy in your team? Lammy was the captain, yes. So, Larkins, Cook. Cook, Bailey. No, no, no. Will he gone to Capel? Capel. Paul Taylor. Cook. Cooky. Yeah, Cookie. Yeah, good size. Nigel Felton. Nigel Felton.

7:33David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Ripley. Yeah, David Ripley. We're a decent team. Good team. And how often did you bowl 100-mana? As in, like, 100 % or did you just go, like, 70 and then suddenly something you didn't like? You must be so nice. Well, actually, when it came to Noughtons first, you know, I used to bowl off from a 30-yard circle. But I quickly realised, for five months of cricket every day, you can't do that. you'll be dead so cut me around down a bit yeah and I felt comfortable yeah and I was still ball and very effective so I never changed so they won't be seen test match cricket because of not hands and um no I couldn't go flat out every day no that would have been crazy did you save it for people or not yeah yeah

8:16Michael Vaughan: the special yes it was top of that list oh Oh. There was no one special. It depends on who ticked me off for the day. You know? So Ricky Williams from Gloucester ticked him off one day. You know, came in and played. I was away and Ricky came in and played the pool shot and went and tap. He was bowling military medium and then the next thing, Gloucester all out in a few overs' time. And then never... When I came out, they said, Ricky, we've got to drop Ricky because if we're playing against North Ends, Ambrose is going to be looking for him and we're going to suffer. So we didn't play Ricky again.

8:52We never play again.

8:53Michael Vaughan: I remember playing against you at Cheltenham. Ooh, Ridge. And Richie, Richie was my driver. So, Richie, he was up against you and... Cheltenham, damn. Oh, you and Richie, what a contest that was.

9:08Phil Tufnell: We lasted two days, Lang's lasted two days at Cheltenham. We're down for the Cheltenham festival. Nothing's changed. Thursday, Friday. LAUGHTER All our spectators turned up for Saturday. We finished on Friday. Cheltenham was my good hunting ground. Then he destroyed Northam's at Cheltenham. We went to Cheltenham. Great play. And Lamy was on test duty. So they brought in two or three guys from the second 11. So I said to myself, OK, I get a promotion. Back to number seven or so. I was back to number nine. I was like, what the hell is going on? Anyway, Courtney and Big Sid Lavin. Big Sid. Big Sid.

9:42Listen, from real pace, they blows away the first innings. And all of a sudden, second time around, they're asking me, can you still call me king? He's the king. You want to take a number? I said, no, no. No, my name is fine for me. They want me to come up in the order. I said, no, no, he's your mate. I said, mate? You don't know him, you know? So I stayed at nine. He got blown away in two days as well. Him and Big Sid, man. So Jack Russell must have been wicketkeeper.

10:05Phil Tufnell: Yeah. Champion wicketkeeper. Boo Boo was in the team. Bo Bo Alin. Yeah, yeah, Bo Alin. Jack, Boo Boo, Big Sid. He had Mike Smith as well. Mike Smith was swinging. Kevin Curran was there. Kevin Taylor Coppice is with us. Before he went to Northam. And they came to Northam after, yeah. Gloucester first, so we used to dominate the Cheltenham Festival together. Those days he used to bat and bowl, then he said he wanted proper order on the contract. Gloucester didn't give him so he played as a batter.

10:31Michael Vaughan: I remember playing against you at Bristol. David Byers was the captain of the Yorkshire and he came and he gave this speech and said, I'm going to bat, it's going to be tough for the first session, we get through that and then we're going to be OK. He bowled us out by 12.42. He's right, it would be tough for the first time.

10:47Phil Tufnell: It was a way. I mean, it was a great thrill when you see a West Indies bowler against a West Indies batter. We had Colin Croft and a little bit of Michael Holding against Viv. Yeah. God, what a game that is. They ramp it up and he's loving it. Come on, man.

11:09Sir Alastair Cook: That's when county cricket was different, man. Yeah, it's a bit about his bragging rights, you know. When you play against each other, you want to make sure that I'm on top. So when you meet up as the West in this team now, we can say, well, you remember that little out-swinger? He says, bag it right. Bit lap a swinger. Sometimes the contest goes over into the nets. If I play against Desmond for Middlesex and he gets some runs against me, when he comes in the nets, I want revenge. So he goes into the net and he would love it. No, serious. If you come to West in this practice, you swear it's a test match.

11:42Absolutely. Because it's cutthroat. Everybody just... You're peppering your own. Of course.

11:51Phil Tufnell: I went to Old Trafford Nets and Alvin Calicharan comes into Nets, he's in close Nets and all that. Horrible. They absolutely bombed him. He's playing in about half an hour or an hour's time.

12:07Michael Vaughan: I don't think we can have a better pair to ask about the new tactic of the keeper stood up. Which is causing chaos. Listen, I played a game against Australia in Grenada many years ago. And I won the game. And somebody from Australia got 100. The pitch was so slow, it bounced this high. And Jimmy Adams was the wicked keeper. And Darren Lehman scored 100. And he was batting out of his crease. and Jimmy Adams came up to me, you know, his Jamaican thing, big man. You know, you want me to stand up? I said, Jimmy, don't embarrass me. I said, can you imagine Darren Lehmann stomped Jimmy Adams' bowl curtly, I'm going?

12:51It's a pride thing. I said, no, it's okay. Letting back up his crease, it's all right. You just stay back there, boss. I can't. It's a pride thing, yeah? Stand up to me. Is he opposite for me? In the sense that Jack Russell stood up to me. No, not me. Yeah? No, I'm not doing that. He came to me and he says, do you mind if I stand up? I said, it's your choice, your risk. No, Jack did it. No helmets. No helmets. He couldn't do that. Catch a few. And he says to me, if you're going to bowl a bouncer, try to give me a warning, which I did. What was your signal? Well, I'm not playing now, so I can give the signal.

13:27I used to just touch my toes. Like it's stretching. Like I'm stretching.

13:30Michael Vaughan: In the test match, it's just been a trend. I'm playing against him on lashings next week. Listen, listen, speaking of lashings, right, this man, I played against him last year. I was 61 years old. The man promulged me for a few sixes. I'll give over. I said, Cookie, come on. They can't take advantage of the old man, you know. There was no respect, but you got him out. Yeah, the man. Got him out. After four sixes or something, damage I already done. Sixes?

13:55David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Yeah. Sixes, not fours. Have you got the footage? I've just tried to find, I've asked. I said to you, come on, Cookie, you can't, you got to take care of the old man. There was no respect showing. No respect. I know you're telling me, we're playing against next week, I'm going to beam you. Two beamers. Abs ahead, yeah.

14:13Michael Vaughan: Well, I just want to say I hit Ambrose for six. Can you imagine, you know? At Trent Bridge, Joffre Archer was bowling. And I looked at Jamie Smith and he got the nod. And you could see Jamie Smith went... What? What, stand out? He stood up. What, to Joffre? Two balls? Yeah, I reckon. Two, three balls up to the stumps, Joffre Archer. He soon went back. Yeah, there you go. No, no, I'm not going to do that. Not when I'm bowling. It's a pride thing. You know, it doesn't look good. Not for a fast bowler.

14:41Phil Tufnell: He was the lad who, Robinson, the wicket keeper, come up and he sent him back. Robinson, at 80 mile an hour. Ollie Robinson, yeah, he did, yeah. Sent him back.

14:50Sir Alastair Cook: But it does mess with you a little bit as a bowler. Of course.

14:52Phil Tufnell: It messes a little bit with you, doesn't it? But it's the thing now. Since Kerry did it, in the ashes, all the keepers are standing up. Yeah, because none of them are fast bowlers.

15:06Michael Vaughan: What are your feelings on the modern day in terms of fast bowling? We kind of talk about this workload, play for a week and then... Red zone. Let me jump in before currently as the elder statesman. I could not survive now with this workload and resting and rotation or whatever. I need to bowl to get fit and once I'm match fit it is maintenance. If you're going to rest me and bring me back, I've got to start all over again. That's just what I do. I've got to get fit. So once you get playing, you just want to keep going. Once I get playing, I maintain it. So it's no maintenance. Like an engine. Yeah.

15:43I had this conversation with Glenn McGrath, just at the back end of his room, before he retired. And he said, the next time he saw me, it was the best advice he got. Because the stop and start just was killing him. You get into a rhythm, you get into the momentum of playing, and you maintain that rhythm as you go along. You know your body, you know your fitness, and you keep working on that. If you're going to stop to start again, when you get into first gear and second gear, then you stop. It's like redoing over the engine. But once you get into that momentum, it's maintenance. So I tell the modern day players, even the ones I coach, I say, I can't tell you how to go about it.

16:20But I used to board in the nets to get fit. I do a bit of jogging. I never did a lot of gym, but light weights in the gym when my shoulder got damaged. But it's more maintenance. once your match fit then you maintain that so if it means practice less or bowl less in the nets I'm all for that because I want to play the matches don't tell me I'm going to miss a test match because of workload I'm not having it Kali? I would love it because I'm lazy one game rest one game rest no no no but no I'm not for it you know I think that you should always try to pick your best team possible and all this workload and play one game and rest I'm not a big fan of it Now, for instance, a game is on the line or series on the line.

17:01Are you going to arrest me, one of your front-end bowlers, on a game or series on the line? Game changes. Yeah, you know, I'm not for it. I won't survive either, you know, because I want to win. And to sit and watch cricket and not be a part of it, that destroys me. I can't do it. I want to be out there, you know, so I'm not for it. You want to be in the action. You want to be playing. you want to be enjoying what you're doing, you want to give your team your best chance of winning a test or a series, whatever cricket you're playing. So are you going to tell me the series is one-all, but because of workload management, I can't play?

17:36Yeah.

17:37Phil Tufnell: When you played, so when you were on tour, say, in England, and there'd be a county game in between, would you use that as a tick-over? I'll just tick over, I'll just get through. Well, usually, there were like two county games before a test match. Yeah. So I'd probably play one. Yeah. The one just before. OK. Because I don't want to sit around for like a week, doing nothing and then go straight into a test match. So the one before the test, I prefer to play that. Get the body going again and then into a test match. So what my dad means is that he would play the one before the test. I might play the one before that.

18:08So the two of us are nothing. And then I would probably do a little bit of bowling in the nets, just to the build-up. But once the series starts, then it's maintenance. So if you have to bowl three overs in the nets just to keep the rhythm going, you do that. If you don't have to bowl in the nets, you don't.

18:22Phil Tufnell: Willis and Anderson, Jimmy Anderson, running, running, running, sort of plodding along the pair of them all the time. And you just said that you do running, not much weights.

18:33Michael Vaughan: No, I've never done that. As a fast bowler, you missed three test matches out of 128. 132, don't rob me now. 132.

18:43Phil Tufnell: Whitey, 132. 132. You only missed three? I missed one test match to injure. The others might have been dropped. But I played in the last test in Perth, used a runner and my arm string gave me a bit of problem. I was still Thiatman, I came over to play against India. I was warming up, I was past fit, but when you feel this little tinge, I don't want to risk it, I don't want to let the boys down, so I missed that Test match.

19:09David 'Bumble' Lloyd: That's amazing.

19:11Michael Vaughan: Three of your final 128 Test matches, that's what he said. 132. You played 132, but three of your last 128 is... Oh, oh, oh. Clarifying in the old. Oh, OK. All right, no, I'll let him get them off. LAUGHTER How long did you capped him for? Um, from 94 till 98. And then...

19:29Phil Tufnell: Brian Lara took over. Brian Lara took over in Jamaica against England. And that spongy sporting wicket that was abandoned. Did you remember it well? Did you join a captain? Yeah, I did, I did. It made me a better player, a better person, and knowing how to deal with people as well. And I think it improved my game, in terms of... You had to concentrate a little bit longer and be a little bit more focused. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and he bowled me into the ground too. Well, there you go. That's what I'm saying. When he wasn't a captain, he was OK. Yeah. Yeah. All of a sudden, big man, hold up one end for me.

20:02Yeah, he had a stroke. All day. I understand. Because what happened? He chose the end he wanted to bowl for. I was a bad one. I asked who chose the end. He did. I was captain and he did. I did. I said to him, I was a senior player. I said, choose the end, no problem. Because, you know, I'm accustomed to when Mikey and them guys were playing. So you're slightly older. He's slightly older. He's only one year older. Just a year. But he played four years. I'm four years a senior. So I had the choice. So I said to him, I know them guys didn't look after me, but I look after you. Choose your hand.

20:29David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Did he ever bowl into the wind? Probably two of us. And then he said, Skipper Kiame. In Wellington. Wellington. So I'm running into the wind all the time. And I'm getting some wickets. So the guys decide, the skipper should have got the wind. And he agreed. He said, let me try if you enter the win. And I'm bowling with the win. He bowled two hours, he said, skip him. OK, I'll make it. That was it.

20:56Michael Vaughan: Stick to cricket is brought to you by Betfair.

21:02Michael Vaughan: What was it like bowling to the likes of Lara in the nets? Did that get heated? Did you charge in at Lara? Of course. At times, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, that's what I said earlier, you know. If you come to Weston's training session, you won't believe we're teammates. No. Seriously. I couldn't believe it. We never held back. I couldn't believe it. So you have to be in an A game or you get killed. Veyes, Veyes, Veyes, Lava, all those guys, the same thing. My philosophy was very simple. I'm at full throttle and if you're good enough to cope with me, I believe that prepares you for the test match.

21:35Well, OK. I'm not going to humble you and give you two hard volleys and say you're in good nick. No, I'm going to hit the pitch and have you doing it. So when you go in the middle...

21:42Phil Tufnell: I bet we were the same. If there's a net enclosing your head. We had Colin Croft for a while and I was captain of the team. I would go anywhere near a net if he were in it. He pulled like lightning, flipping arms all over the plate. And I'm in an enclosed net and I said, I'm not going in. And I used to sneak out the dressing room so they couldn't see me, Colin Croft. I'm going for a net. We were serious. We had some serious nets. There was one particular net session that we had with a guy that you would know well. Patrick Patterson. Oh, Patrick Patterson. Oh, Jesus. Listen, we're in Adelaide. He was quick.

22:17I don't know what happened that particular day. But he bowled, it was the longest he probably bowled in practice. He bowled at Desmond Ains, Gus Logie, somebody else and then Karl Hooper. And Karl Hooper was the best of mates. And let me tell you what. Don't tell me Karl had the brimmer on. He had to put the helmet on. He was running in the way. It's the quickest I've ever seen Pato in the net. And you're at for a glick, right? He's got to a stage now where the guys wanted to have a ball against him. Desmond was up top, who had faced the Heat. Gus Logie had faced the Heat and somebody, I think Richie, and then Hooper.

22:52And then someone says, Coach, Coach Canary, I think Pato should have a bat today in the Nets. And Pato says, I don't have any kit. And 20 bats came down, pads down the world. Everybody wanted to pad up and he just says, oh, you guys want to kill me. He didn't kill me. You were trying to kill us.

23:10Michael Vaughan: I've been handed the iPad and I'm guessing it's Michael Allerton batting. So I'm guessing we've got a bit of footage of you.

23:18Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, that's me, man. Oh, that's Jamaica. Oh, that's one in the ribs. Yeah, that was Jamaica. They got called off. Nineteen called off. Six to three balls. Oh, that's one on the floor.

23:27Michael Vaughan: Good lead, though. Oh. Yeah. This is the one that got called off, yeah. Why did they not just look like that? You're nasty, all right. That's normal. That's normal. That's normal. That's Wayne Morton. He was out there. He was out there. He was out there. He was out there. So we're making everything count there. Yeah. No, I'm going to tough it all. Let's sit again. Get up there. Oh, what's wrong with that? Oh, he's out. Nothing's wrong with that. He's just out. It's a bit of bounce.

23:48Sir Alastair Cook: Butch came in and got first ball, didn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you there, Phil? Yes. Butch wasn't selected.

23:54Phil Tufnell: No, that's not. Butch wasn't selected. Jack Russell was the wicket king. Jack turned sick. Oh, that's nasty. Yeah. This is Jamaica.

24:02David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Yeah, that's nasty. Do you think it would have got called off England bowled first? No.

24:08Sir Alastair Cook: Gus Fraser. I think Gus Fraser might walk in.

24:12Phil Tufnell: No, we ain't walking. Oh, Nasa's going on the girls. Caddy. Oh, Caddy, yeah. Gus Fraser.

24:18Michael Vaughan: Yeah. Stewie. Of all the England players that you bowled to, which was the one that you thought, yeah, we're going to lift our legs a bit higher? Well, I can tell you something, Graham Hick. Right. I'll I'll tell you why.

24:361988, West Indies toured England and we played against Worcester. At Worcester, yeah. And he made a big hundred. Played extremely well. Graham Hick. Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop. So it was a potent attack. I forgot about Bishop. Yeah, Ian Bishop. So he scored a big hundred. Played really, really well. And he was going to be eligible for selection in three years' time. Yes, yes, yes. And you know, we'd already know the English press. He's going to be the saviour of England cricket and look at the attack. Big 100. And you know, sometimes we have good memories sometimes, you know. And three years later, we told England again in 1991.

25:13He was selected. And we were ganged up, man. We said, you know what? We're going to take revenge for that Big 100 who scored against us, you know. So the first test match, my good friend there decided to get the ball rolling. got him out first innings and I got him out the second innings and after that next test match I got him out twice third test match I got him out twice fourth test match I got him out twice the fifth test match they dropped him so England robbed me of two wickets no but he was on too much pressure tremendous pressure you know I mean look at the attack we had Walsh, Ambrose, Marshall, Bishop, Patrick Patterson you know so

25:53David 'Bumble' Lloyd: With your name marked. Marshall. Coming after you.

25:57Sir Alastair Cook: The boys say Marshall was perhaps one of the best... For me, the best West Indian fast bowler ever. Most complete. Andy Roberts was great. But for me, I think Malcolm Marshall, I would say... Why Marshall? He did everything. Swing. He had pace, swing, pace. Control. He always tries to be a step ahead of the batters. He seemed not like Andy, but to me he was more complete. Yeah, a lot of people talk about his skills. But for me, his cricket brain, man. That to me was his biggest asset. I used to feel a lot of mid-off for him. He said to me, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, I'm going to get him out this way.

26:46I would say, come on, Marco, let's just talk. and more often than not, you know? Fierce competitor. Who's the quickest?

26:56Phil Tufnell: Through the age groups, who's the quickest? I've never played with Mikey or Andy Robertson, but for me, Patrick Patterson. He was quick. And Bishop. Ian Bishop was quick too. Ian Bishop was rapid till his back went. The quickest I saw from a distance was Michael Olin as a youngster. But the quickest I've been on the field with was Patrick Patterson and then followed by Ian Bishop. And Sylvester Clarke who played in Syri.

27:21Sir Alastair Cook: Keith, he was rampant in Sylvester. And he was nasty as well. But after the game, he was a nice fella. Yeah, nice fella. Meet him in the bar, he's the champ. He came into the Surrey Tavern, Middlesex, and he's come in, he's got a pint of Guinness and cracked two eggs into it. Like that. And it was like my second game playing for Middlesex. Well, I fucking ran out of the pub. LAUGHTER He put his two eggs, doo-doo-doo like that, and just sort of looked to me. I was with Clive Radley, look, Clive Radley. Like that, we were going, oh, fuck. And that was probably his warm-up drink

27:56Phil Tufnell: before he got into the rum. Well, there you go. Probably. He used the rum, man. He used to stand at Gully and he had it like a kerchief. Boulding Flats. He just kept patting his head.

28:05Sir Alastair Cook: Boulding Flats, didn't he, Silvers? Boulding Flats. Boulding Puma Sheffield. Boulding Puma Sheffields, I had some of them. Boulding Sheffields, yeah. Yeah.

28:12Phil Tufnell: He took me a big guy and he just skipped through. He just skipped through at your end. Shut up.

28:20Michael Vaughan: What about bowling to Mike Atherton? He got a big handrail against me once, I think, in... It might have been Guyana. He got a handrail and he did something, if I remember. Can't remember which ground. Yeah, in Guyana. 1984. Ever since then, I said, I don't want to give him a chance to get settled in because he battled for long. So I think that was probably the biggest downfall. And after that, we just decided,

28:43Phil Tufnell: whenever we see him, you want to get him out of it. You're somebody like Eamon Pollock, who nip it back and Glenn McGrath, nip it nip. A lot of people talk about Mike Atterton and how many times we dismissed him. But people tend to forget he scored a lot of runs against us too. And people tend to overlook that. He was a good player. I mean, for me, as an opening batter, you're always exposed to the new ball, guys are fresh. So it's never an easy job for an opening batter. You know, so... I mean, you see...

29:11Michael Vaughan: Yeah, Cookie.

29:13Phil Tufnell: Cookie, how would you have coped with these two? You used to like that, didn't you? Have I not? And you'd get plenty of practice with him. You would, you would. I'd have taken it on. I think you would have done it. I'm not sure if he's almost a survivor, but you'd have taken it. I'm definitely taking it on. I saw what you did to me in the benefit game. Oh, exactly. He's 61. Yeah, but truth be told, you know, if you're a good cutter or a puller, You know, you can survive.

29:38David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Yeah. So most guys who don't survive is because they just tend to just... I think Curly's length, just like watching Astor's nick off, I think I'd have nicked off a lot. Well, you would have screwed once too. I got to be fair. You know, you would have screwed once. I mean, you were a damn good player. You know, like you were no bunny. You were a good player. You know, so you just... I'll take that as praise. No, I'm serious. You know, I wouldn't make it easy for you. You know? The only thing I wouldn't do is ask you to remove your sweatband or anything. No, you don't do that. No, no, no. Oh, Jamesy.

30:07David 'Bumble' Lloyd: That would get... Dean Jones. Dean Jones.

30:10Phil Tufnell: I mean, that's a schoolboy error, isn't it? Would you mind checking it? The entire Australian team was upset and disappointed with Dean. I'll bet they would. But we were happy. He was bowling military medium at the time. Just what we call pit. He was just putting it there. Pit. Putting it there. And then Dean came out with this great idea. I'm going to try to ruffle his feathers and tell him to take off the armband. And then the minute he looked at Richie and says, what is the umpire saying? And Richard says, no, he wants to remove the armbar. But I've been using this to the whole series. And you could sit and say, oh, yeah, well done, Dino.

30:43Well done, Dino. We were happy. I was really pissed. We were happy. Because, I mean, up to that point, one day game, for me, one day cricket, is about containment. I want to keep it nice and tight. Because I had given away once. You guys know that. You know that, Vaughn. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I would just keep it nice and tight. And if you get a couple of weeks, it's fine. And this man came out and asked me to buy a wine. I was really upset. I wanted to kill him. I've seen the video. You've seen the video? You did. There's a bit of a difference there with being upset and I wanted to kill him.

31:15David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I like going from pitting to killing. I'm going to use that. I'm going to see a bowler now. I'm going to commentate now and if I see a bowler just, you're going to like, you know, 60th over, he's pitting. He's pitting.

31:28Michael Vaughan: What about the modern game? We hear a lot about this wobble scene. Oh, dear, no. That's been a run on. What was your... Take the ball in your hand, Kirtz. I don't know about wobble seam. I've never done that. If the ball wobbled, it's by accident. It probably didn't come out right. I didn't do it on purpose. You know? Cross seam and stuff, I hardly ever do that either. You know, I believe... It's standard. I believe in the conventional seam-up thing, you know? I don't do it. To get it to wobble and dance a little bit. I don't. But we didn't call it a wobble then. Jack called it a snake. It was wicked game.

32:00It was a snake to me. Yeah, he snaked in or snaked out. It was just a little different grip on the seam for me. That's pretty much what it was. That's what Jimmy felt like. No, seriously. So you were doing it before we talked about it. Well, that's what I did, didn't I? You weren't sure the seam going down like that. It's not new. All of that was just you recognizing what's happening and then control it. Because I used to fiddle with the seam a lot. He was just conventional. Mean, doesn't want to give anything away. Lazy. So he would eat that cherry every day of the weekend, twice on Sunday. That's fine.

32:27I would be more experimental. So that's why it was good to have him as a partner. the other hand because I knew if I tried something and it didn't work and I got tongue for two fours, he's just going to bone a maiden. And then you go back to basic. So I would experiment, change the seam around, spread the finger wider, everything. So you hold me a wicket, you know. Tito Willey didn't give you out that language. I'm not going to forget that. They don't watch. Tito Willey didn't give you out that... Old Trafford. Old Trafford, yeah. Well, he's got lappy. You missed that slow one. Oh, did you? And then he came to me and he said, I don't want to swim.

32:58He came to me and he said, I must have been flipping sleeping when he started. But it wasn't just the wicket, right? That wicket cost me like 40 grand, so you owe me. There was a sponsorship thing in the deal. Who was our sponsor? Was it Sandals? And they said, anybody got more wickets than Malcolm Marshall did on his last tour, it's 40 grand. Can he call it right now? That's it to Peter.

33:27Sir Alastair Cook: To his slow ball as well. This was after Toppy did it twice. He did it twice there. I mean, he did it. I'm thinking, oh, I've done it. Oh, he did it open. Yeah, it's twice. I hope I got that one out. So to do the right hand, I know. I said, oh, yes, I've got it. And Peter says, no, that's a point. That's a good lad, Pete. So when we were walking off, I said to Peter, Peter, you owe me one. And he was a good lad. He said, 40 grand. He cursed me. When we were walking on the field, he cursed me. What the hell are you talking about? And I don't know. I said, Peter, do me one favor. When you go off, try to have a look at it.

33:56and I'm happy because we get on well. And walking back out, he goes, hey, come here. You're bloody right. I must have been sleeping. But for that, you can't argue with that. I mean, it's just honestly, whatever.

34:08Phil Tufnell: When that game that you've just shown, we called off, we went to play two matches at Trinidad. Yeah, that's correct. Then we rained off one day and we went into their dressing room. We started talking about quick bowling and we asked him, what do you aim at? And they might recall it or not. and I can't remember which one of you, said, I aim at the keeper. They said, because there's the off stump, keeper's behind, I'm on that angle, just aim at the keeper, keep going there. Yeah. And I said, do you know which way it's going? Do you know? No, sometimes it does this, sometimes it does that. And I said, well, we've got one who knows exactly which way it's going.

34:49That one's Caddick? I remember the conversation. Do you do? I remember also saying to you with the new ball, which is true. But you get a brand new ball, you don't know which way it's going to sing to start with. So you try to work that out. When you get older, then you know the grip and how you pull it through, it should swing out. But in those days, you just hold a new ball and you see what's happening first. So the best thing to do is to hit just where the keeper pads are. Hit that line to see what's happening. But you can't know when it's going to swing in, when it's going to swing out. He's a master.

35:24Phil Tufnell: It was just one of them great times when you rained off and it's battle out there. Everybody gets on alright and when they're in the dressing room, they're going to tell us about fastballing. And they were very amenable, just a chatter way.

35:47Michael Vaughan: Where are we at with West Indies Cricket? We've won a Test match these last few days. What about the structure and... Yeah, who runs it? The pathway, the bosses. A lot of work needs to be done. Who runs it? The director of cricket, Myles Boscombe is director of cricket. The president is... Where's he from? They're both from St Vincent. So the pair are from...? Yeah, yeah. Nice island. Lovely island. Lovely island. But our structure needs to be looking at seriously. They're going to tell you funding. We all know there's funding out there, but we have to prioritize the cricket if we want it to grow and get better.

36:23Use cricket first and the rest of the stuff secondary. I think they've gone the other way around it. In my estimation, I could be wrong, where cricket seems to be secondary. And everything else, they try to fit everything else around it. And you keep here. I mean, our first-class season this year, Trinidad played one team. Lewand Island. Lewand Island three times. Bobby just played Jamaica three times. and the Wynwards played... Chulida. Guyana. Guyana, that's correct. Three times. To me, that's not a first-class season. It's not. You have to make everybody play each other, like what you're doing here in county cricket.

36:59We should be looking to play ten games, minimum. That's my... And I've said this from when I was playing. Our first-class season is too short. Five games. And they've got the charter. Five games. Five four-day games. Five four-day games. This year they played three. But you're playing one team twice. Whose idea is that?

37:15Sir Alastair Cook: Do you see it ever coming back to where it was in those magical days? No. I don't see it in a hurry unless there's massive changes. Grassroot level through the schools, in the territories, and at the highest level where the board puts some structure in place. So where are your board?

37:34Phil Tufnell: So have you got iconic cricketers from the West Indies, the greatest we've ever seen? What involvement do they have with West Indies cricket? Zero. I have none. I'm talking about players. We have none. I have none. Viv Riches, Brian Lara, Gordon Greenwich.

37:51Sir Alastair Cook: Kezi, Heine, Duffin. I think we can name every player now. The director of cricket, sorry, you said his name is...

38:00Michael Vaughan: Miles Bascombe. So he's done what in his career? I think he played a T20 for the Western Leeds. Right, so he's controlling the whole of Western Leeds cricket. and he doesn't ring up any of the old players for a bit of input? Well, he hasn't ringed me, I don't know if he's ringing anybody yet. Well, I can tell you this much. The president, Kisho Shalo, he's also from St Vincent. A couple of years ago when he became the president, I was in St Vincent doing some cricket stuff. And he rang me up and said, listen, we need to go to dinner, need to talk about West Indies cricket and blah, blah, blah.

38:35And I said, OK, great. So we went to dinner, had a long talk about West Indies cricket. the kind of roles you want the former cricketers to play and blah blah. So I left the dinner feeling excited. I said, okay, at least there'll be a change. That was about four, how long ago you know? About four years ago? I haven't heard from him since. So I got a free meal and a world speech and then that was it. So I don't know what's going on.

39:03Michael Vaughan: It's sad, isn't it? I mean, you've got the Caribbean Premier League's quite success in 2020 cricket. That brings a vibe. but to play three four-day games... It's crazy. It makes no sense. How are you going to produce your next... Well, you had nothing to do with my luck.

39:17Sir Alastair Cook: You haven't even got any rhythm then. Exactly. You haven't even got any rhythm. Let's be honest, if I'm playing against you three times only, how can that be a challenge? It's just like the same old, same old. But if I'm playing against you and then you the next game, it's a different challenge, right? Left-hand or whatever the case might be.

39:37Phil Tufnell: Is there island unity? Is there unity between the islands? Or is it still a bit fractious? I think it's a lot better. That's just my view. I think it's a lot better. I don't think it's fractious in terms of the players. But are they above the board level? I'm not sure. The administration is a problem. Not the players themselves. OK. There's a whole heap of politics as well. I'm from Antigua. And I want Antiguan to play. He's from Jamaica. He wants Jamaicans to play. so that Inter-Island rivalry, too much politics. So I don't think we select our best teams all the time. Sometimes they trade off.

40:15Who's the coach? Who's the coach now? Darren Sammi. Darren Sammi is the coach of all three formats. And sole selector. Never in the history of West Indies cricket he got one selector. He's always like three. But he's got some scouts though. Scouts?

40:29David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Yeah. They don't need a scout. He's only going to play three games. It's true though. Sam is the only, he's the headquarter of all three formats. He's the only selector. Would you not think that it would be good for an outsider to go in

40:46Phil Tufnell: and clear the decks and this is a vision? Fresh eyes. This is what we're going to be. Fresh eyes. Yeah, fresh eyes. This is the way that we're going to progress. This is a five-year plan for that guy from outside to come in. And then if you have any sense going from outside, you bring from inside. You bring two or three guys from inside who are well respected, who've done it, got the T-shirt and you work together to a five-year plan.

41:14David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I think this is when the ICC have to step up a bit. Because I think for me, obviously you've got the big three, Australia, England, India. But there's so much money there. The game of cricket needs... Always. I think Westerners at the minute need a little bit of luck. You get three or four brilliant cricketers who just arrive. It does happen, but it definitely needs support.

41:41Phil Tufnell: The structure isn't helping two or three players to arrive. Are the kids playing in the Caribbean still? Are few still playing?

41:49Michael Vaughan: Coming through the school? A couple of years ago I was there on the beach.

41:56David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Loads of cricket was going. They're still doing. We're not losing them to basketball like what people say. Sorry, Chris. We're not losing them to basketball. Right, so still... As I said, the structure. So, like, for Jamaica, they play a lot in Jamaica, I can tell you that. In all the schools. In Antigua, unfortunately, not all the schools play. Some of the schools does play. But if we can get a structure out at that level of sort, it's played in all the schools. You need a structure. Back in the days.

42:17Phil Tufnell: You need a structure. Fresh your eyes to go in. Tell us something. Most of these kids nowadays are gravitated to T20. Well, yeah. So that is a serious issue we have. You talk to the player, I don't want to play no test cricket, it's too long. T20, the way to go, make money. So that's a serious issue we have. It's a threat globally there. There will be Larry Gomes he's knocking about. There will be a Larry Gomes somewhere that, you know, you've got to get me out. I'm going to stay in there.

42:48David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Who was the best U-Bowl there? Yeah, who's the best West Indies batter of all time? He must have played domestic first class against us. Who was the one you actually played with? For me, I would go with Brian Lara. Viv is from Antigua, so I'm from Leawood Island, so I haven't played against Viv. But in only region, I would say Brian Lara.

43:10Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah. Wow, he's brilliant. She went bad, we'll say nothing. For me, Brian was the best left-hander and Viv was the best right-hander. Alright.

43:19Michael Vaughan: What about overseas players? Who was the best that you played from other countries? I'll tell you something, right? It might sound strange to you. What I said best, the artist will probably get out and stuff, right? There was a guy called Steve Waugh. Yeah. Right. Because of the heart of the fight that he showed. The kids, the other, I mean, Sergeant Tendulkar was spectacular, you know, what he's doing and whatever. But Steve Waugh, when he gets in and the fight, he looks, especially just him out of the bat against us, he's going to hold any ball now. Yeah, yeah. But he fights it out and survives.

43:50And then the next thing you know, he's got 100. Yeah. So he was a tough one. I mean, I played against a lot of great players. It's hard to say, but my top two for me is always Sachin Tendulkar and Ricky Pontin. Ricky Pontin, yeah. Good player. Pontin got all the shots and things and he'll take you on. So those two will be top of the tree for me. You play against Gooch? Yes, I play against a few, quite a few test matches. Very stubborn cricketer, tough. Not the most attractive, not the most...

44:20David 'Bumble' Lloyd: That's his prodigy there, similar. Headingley, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, 1991? 1991. You weren't playing? Yeah, we played, yeah, played, yeah. That's meant to be one of the best innings. Yeah, correct, correct. All those guys were following him and he really, a gutsy player, tough, not the most attractive or the most talented, but... He was hanging the end, yeah.

44:43Phil Tufnell: You guys wouldn't play against Geoffrey, would you, boy, come? No, I didn't play against Geoffrey. In counter cricket, he still has, you know, when he was chasing his 100, 100, I got him out and he'd never forget that. He would play an arrogate on a flat one and I think he told everyone it was going to happen today. And I managed to knock the off-sump out of the ground and he was 80-something. It wasn't like he'd come in fresh, he was well set. Oh, you'll remember that. You'll stop me from getting, oh, yeah, Courtney.

45:11Sir Alastair Cook: Sorry, Sir Geoffrey. Quick question, is this a myth or is it true? Do you remember when you bowled us out at Trinidad? and got us all the wickets. Was it true that your mum had a bell? Bell, yeah, yeah. And you had to ring the bell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true, it's true. I didn't know that. Some reporter came to me and asked me, Mr Anbuse, is it true that your mum rings the bell every time I take a wicket? And I was like, how the hell should I know? I'm not home. I'm not close, so I'm not home. So when I got home, my ex-girl, she got a small bell like this. She said, well, yeah, because she loves cricket and always wanted a cricketer in the family.

45:46So she was really proud that I turned out OK.

45:51Michael Vaughan: Well, is it correct that you started out as a spinner? No, why? Leg spinner. Leg spinner. Robert Aynes. Leg spin. Robert Aynes. Robert Aynes and I couldn't get into the Jamaica team because of Robert Aynes. That's when I started. You have a good, quicker ball. I had a good, quicker ball. I used to bowl a bounce as a spinner. And then I said, one day at school, the first ball a breakdown. And the coach says, you've been bowling it at Colts level. Do you want to bowl a new ball today? But Pfeiffer, that was it. That was it. Never turned back. And Kersh, you were more basketball, football. I love basketball and football, yeah.

46:30Yeah? As a matter of fact, when I started my cricket career, it took me two years to really take it seriously. I mean, I'm a proud man. Once I crossed that rope, it's business. But two years into my international career, is when I decided to take cricket real seriously. Every chance I get, I'm on the basketball court or football field. And people say, what are you doing? Are you crazy? And then my village is in suites. Because in suites, to play basketball or football, you have to register your name. And they say, you know what? You're a professional cricketer. Stay with the cricket. We're not going to register you.

47:03So they cut my career. And that's where I started. So you know what? OK. What position at football? Midfielder.

47:09Michael Vaughan: At centre? Yeah. Really? Of course, I like to be in things, you know, in control. What kind of play, a modern-day player, what would you say your star was compared to a modern-day player? Are you a Declan Rice or are you a Modric? No, no, I... Honestly... Bellingham? No, no, I wouldn't want to say that because I was not in that kind of category. I would sound like I'm too good.

47:29David 'Bumble' Lloyd: No, no, no. So I wouldn't want to do that.

47:31Phil Tufnell: No, I used to be Roy Keane. I used to be like Roy Keane.

47:35Michael Vaughan: I was Zidane. You know, what's he's, you know what I'm saying? Come on, who are you going to be? Yeah. No, no, I don't want to do that. I mean, I just... No, it wouldn't be fair. My best three...

47:47Phil Tufnell: Phil was Kenny Sansom. Yeah. Kenny Sansom. My best three, I've seen them all. Sobers, Lara, Richards. So they were fantastic players. But I played against Charlie Griffiths. Do you remember Charlie? So Wes and Charlie. Lance Gibbs, who played at Warrington for years. and when Charlie got called, Charlie Griffiths got called for throwing in England and I thought it was really unjust, I thought he was absolutely fine. He was rapid, but how were the batter who he got called against? Oh, really? Yeah. OK. And I think the umpire were called Arthur Fagg. And it just went completely unnoticed. It went unnoticed until it dripped out that West Indies opening bowler.

48:35Phil Tufnell: Did he bowl the next ball? Yeah, he did. He just disappeared. He just diluted.

48:42Sir Alastair Cook: I thought he were absolutely fine. He was quick. Who was the one who dragged, like, was that Wes Hall? Drag. Drag his foot. That's Wes Hall, yeah.

48:51David 'Bumble' Lloyd: That one you could use a back line of your foot.

48:53Phil Tufnell: So that was in 1960, the Tide Test match out in Australia with Joe Solomon, West Indies, who had a direct hit to run out the last batter and a Tide Test match in the West Indies. And Wes were bowling. Wes used to have his shirt open and this medallion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was our professional. It's a lovely story. He was our professional at Accrington in the Lancashire League. And it's only about seven or eight years that he came into England and said, I want to go back up to Accrington. So they put a little do on at the club and he's on a stick. He's got a walking stick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He insisted on marking his run-up acts.

49:34Phil Tufnell: and it used to sit on the side screen yeah yeah a long run up and a long run up and this medallion dangling away yeah yeah and he was fantastic he was he got me into cricket Wes Hall got me into cricket as a young kid at Accrington and we went he said we're going I'm going to take you to a test match not only a child only 12 or 13 you'll never guess who drove us to the test match at Trent Bridge Roy Gilchrist oh lord Gilchrist Gilly was wild. Yeah, he was. Absolutely. Wild man. Yeah. Roy Gilchrist, the scourge of the league. Wes says he thinks he was the quickest of the lot, Gilchrist. He was rapid.

50:19Phil Tufnell: Crikey, Roy was nasty. Well, pounded on the pitches of the league. Yeah. Sticky dog. Roy was something else, Roy Gilchrist. And Gilchrist, get Gilchrist off the field. He was an absolute wild man on the field, throw the ball at you. I heard a story that he knocked someone in the mouth at Denture, playing against him six months later in the following season, and the guy said, take Denture out and put it in his pocket and then he smashed it again.

51:01Michael Vaughan: Right, we're going to do a quiz.

51:03Sir Alastair Cook: Oh, hello.

51:03Michael Vaughan: We're going to do a Courtney or Kirtley quiz. Harry, where are you? Get the paddles. 762 wickets you got between you. 95 tests. That's pretty good. I didn't realise you both got others out 17 times. Poor old Michael.

51:20Phil Tufnell: Do you think others watches are pod shows? I don't know. I don't know.

51:26Michael Vaughan: I don't turn it around. Let's look in this list of partnerships. Anderson and Broad, 1 ,039 after 138 matches. Warner McGrath, 1 ,001, 1 ,04. Murali and Vass, 895. Yourselves at 4, 762. Stark and Lyon are at 759. Ashwin and Judasia, spin twins, 587. Cummins and Lyon, 584. Lyon and Hazel, he's in a few, isn't he? 570. Akram and Eunice, 559. Pollock and Callis, 547. So there's the top ten partnerships in Test cricket. History now how this is gonna work. So you've got your paddles with You're both on so you have to choose one right So I don't know if you've Have you ever seen mr. Or mrs. On the television in the UK?

52:14Michael Vaughan: I've never seen it. No, it's similar to this way I won that I won that No, you didn't

52:19Sir Alastair Cook: I won it

52:23Phil Tufnell: No, then no, then Derek Beatty was called Derek Beatty Now then, miss it. No, no, no, no. Did he shit himself before he shot himself? Did he shoot himself before he shit himself? LAUGHTER

52:36Michael Vaughan: Right, here we go. Kirtley or Courtney, you've got to choose. Who was the hardest trainer? LAUGHTER Courtney, who was the fastest? Ooh! Ambrose. Ooh. Who's the best dressed? LAUGHTER Can't you tell? I'm all dapper. I saw him last week. He was sharp last week. Yeah, yeah, I'm a soothing thing, yeah. All suited and booted. Who was the most likely, when got out, to throw their bat?

53:12Michael Vaughan: You were angry. Look at that, it has to be him.

53:15Sir Alastair Cook: Who was the best sledger? I never sledged that. No, none of these boys sledged. Yeah, absolutely. The look was enough. One in Philadelphia.

53:26Michael Vaughan: Who took the most important wickets for the West Indies? Worst. Oh, brilliant. Now, that's a part of it. This is a good one. Who dropped the most catches off each other's bowling? Off what? Off each other's bowling. I don't think I dropped the catch off either. Look, you did. Do you remember it? No. I don't think I dropped the catch off. No, I can't recall.

53:55David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Did you not sneak into Gully a couple of times? Have you ever filled at Gully? In a slip cordon? Yeah, he snuck in there, killed it, didn't he? Mm-hm.

54:02Michael Vaughan: This is the last one.

54:03David 'Bumble' Lloyd: What was the answer? What was the answer we didn't actually know? About the drops, yeah. No, no, either or.

54:11Michael Vaughan: I can't recall dropping anything. Who would go for the biggest fee in the IPL? I think Kurti would. Clearly. Yeah. After two of us, yeah, yeah. There'd be a few quid. It was me, then Titan wouldn't want to spend any money. Dave, up you go. Whiteboard, Harry. Whiteboard, this is it. This is a section that Sir Alistair has brought to this show. Oh, yes. This will be good. You've got to pick between you your best 11 that you've played with.

54:41Sir Alastair Cook: County, West Indies.

54:43Michael Vaughan: Any team that you've played for.

54:44Sir Alastair Cook: Any team you've played for.

54:46Michael Vaughan: World 11, you name it. North Ants, Gloucester, West Indies. That I've played with. Yeah, you've got to pick between you your best 11. And the minute, Sean Udall... Sean Udall's got the best inside. So, Sean Udall had David Warner. Caden, Gilchrist. Caden, Gilchrist, Peterson. Robin Smith. Malcolm Marshall, Shane Warne, Wazi Makram.

55:07Sir Alastair Cook: Good, Greenwich.

55:08Michael Vaughan: Yeah. Right, Dave. Unbelievable.

55:10Sir Alastair Cook: So, we'll see you picking... Is that all right? You two are the selectors.

55:14Michael Vaughan: All good. Anyone can be anyone, any kind. For which team are we sitting there? Yes. Well, it's just whoever you feel is the best players you've played with. OK, so it doesn't have to be West Ended. No, no, no. Between you. OK.

55:29Sir Alastair Cook: So, you're opening batting pair. Courtney hit me out the ground a couple of times. Big ones. Big ones! I wish you could get some of those for the people to see, man. Big ones. I used to love you.

55:40Michael Vaughan: Do you know what really disappoints me about the modern game? Players coming down 9-10-11 and bat a bit. I used to love your style at bat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll do it at the end, but we want to see your leave again, Corny.

55:54Phil Tufnell: The leave?

55:55Sir Alastair Cook: We want to see the right time we pick a team, boy.

55:57Michael Vaughan: Who's opening the bat?

55:58Sir Alastair Cook: They were big, they went over the old pavilion. I'm going to pick a team, boy. I've only been at Corny, could we be at night, Hans? No, I'm not going to go into it, we'll get work. West Indies, we can have West Indies, guys.

56:08David 'Bumble' Lloyd: They played with or against? With, just with. On your side. I'm going Greenwich and Inns. Do you agree with them two? Greenwich and Haynes. Greenwich and Haynes, yeah.

56:20Michael Vaughan: Oh! No, I've got to go Greenwich and Haynes. I think this is going to be the best XI. I've got a feeling. Who's number three? Viv, obviously. BC? BC, Lara four. This is pretty good. Can you put Lara next to that, please, Dave? Yeah, BC, Lara. Yeah. Five? OK, now, let me start to think.

56:40Sir Alastair Cook: Did you play with a... Hoopa? You won't play with Sorby. No, I didn't. I would have pushed them down.

56:46David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Played with any Aussies? Did you play...? Oh, it can be from other people? Yeah. OK. Yeah, like anyone at...? No, you said that we played with? Yes, so with.

56:54Michael Vaughan: So, did you go Northants or Gloucester...? Lammy, Lammy. OK. Lammy, good player. Let me see. Did you say you'd push them down one? I was thinking I'd get in Richie there, but it's all right. Richie Richardson. Oh, Richie with the brimmer. Yeah, no, but Richie, good player, but I think he can't get in. Hooper? Sorry. Hooper?

57:12Sir Alastair Cook: No, no, no. That's who you're playing with. What about keeper? Jack? I would use Jack. Is he that Jack or... Dujon? Go to number seven. Go on, then. Yeah. I would go with Dujon. Dujon. Not Jack Russell. That's seven, yeah. Yeah, well, no surprise.

57:30Michael Vaughan: Was he better than Jack? Slash Jack Russell. Yeah, you can go. Yeah, put Russell in this. Yeah, you can have Russell in this. Yeah, you can have that either.

57:39Sir Alastair Cook: Leave those for no. Yeah, man. Eight. Yeah, man. Are you having a spinner?

57:45Michael Vaughan: I'm going for Michael Marshall. Oh, here we go. Marshall at eight.

57:51Phil Tufnell: This is going to be flipping brutal. Are these two boys getting it? This is brutal. 9-10-11. They can't pick themselves.

57:59David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Is Mikey going there? They can't pick themselves. We can't pick ourselves, right? No, we don't pick ourselves. Michael Holdings. You know, I'm going to go up here. Who going up? I'm going to put Alan Lamb right here. Lammy. Lammy has done so well against Weston, he's a thing he deserves a mention.

58:16Michael Vaughan: What a player. Putting Lammy right there.

58:19Phil Tufnell: A little all-rounder in there, maybe. You don't need an all-rounder. You just need four-seams. 9-10-11, give me 9-10-11. We've got Holding, Holding. Patrick Parson, is he going in? No, no. Bish. Doug Bish. Bish was scored shots, I'm thinking about it. Andy Roberts. I've played with Andy Roberts. We've never played with Andy Roberts. Joel Garner. Joel Garner. Joel Garner. Oh, shit!

58:43David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Oh, this is brutal. Bird, yeah. And then Mike Smith.

58:48Michael Vaughan: Keeper stood up. Put Garner, please, Phil. Slut, slut. Yeah, Garner, Bird. Bird, Big Bird, Joel Garner. So you've got an 11 and a 6, so I don't know if you want an all-rounder, but you probably don't need one with those bowlers. You can have a spinner if you want. We didn't have any top spinner at Gloucestershire. Little ball-y. LAUGHTER

59:11Phil Tufnell: There's a West Indies all rounder. Kyle Hooper? He said not to Hooper. Yeah, not yet. Not yet. I'm looking around.

59:20David 'Bumble' Lloyd: We need one more pace baller. I want four quicks. You want four quicks?

59:23Michael Vaughan: Come on, West Indies don't ball spin.

59:26David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Gibbs, you didn't play with Gibbs? No, I didn't play with Gibbs. Sobers, you didn't play with Sobers? No, I didn't play with Sobers. You know...

59:32Michael Vaughan: That would help.

59:34David 'Bumble' Lloyd: You didn't play in Australia for any... You didn't go and play like... No, Bishop, Bishop.

59:38Michael Vaughan: You never played Sheffield? You've got Ian Bishop. I've got Bishop in here. That's all. I've got Ian Bishop. Bishop, it's after Bishop stroke Patterson. He's a lovely man, Bishop, anyway. But Bishop or Patter, I mean, it's quite a strong attack. That's a good strong attack.

59:52David 'Bumble' Lloyd: I mean, you could then, if he wanted to, we could have Ambrose and Walsh in there as well.

59:55Michael Vaughan: Let's put Ambrose and Walsh in the squad, Dave. Just in the squad, just so... They could be 12 men this week. I reckon they could probably replace Bishop and Patterson. Concussion replacement. They might need him.

1:00:06Phil Tufnell: Who have we got in the subs? Ambrose.

1:00:10Michael Vaughan: Ambrose. Ambrose. You could squad this. You need a number six. I'm going for Karl Hooper. Karl Hooper can owe you a few tweets.

1:00:20Phil Tufnell: He can get Nasser out with that rubber. He can get Nasser out with that thing that rolled on the air. Yeah, put the Karl Hooper.

1:00:26David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Would you not have Richie Richardson? Who's a better bat or do you want the balance to the side? Yeah, I want to, yeah. He can't bat, which is a natural opener. So if he's not going to bat at one, two or three, I'm not going to play him. That's what I say. So he can't, he can't. You could push everyone down. You could push everyone down. Your choice, your team. But if you don't have any spin, I'll put in Hooper. Yeah, I'll put Karl Hooper. Super Hooper. Super Hooper. He'll give you ones when he's focused. And he's cold. And he can go some tweak. And he's cold. I think I'll go with that. Was he unpredictable?

1:00:56Phil Tufnell: Is he unpredictable? Very. Oh. Very. I used to curse him so bad, right? Really? Too much talent. Yes. You've got a good player of speed. I've never seen Hooper struggle in the innings. Oh. Always look easy and then just give it away.

1:01:11Sir Alastair Cook: Yeah, hit the pad. I was like... You know? Did you ever give him the treatment in the net? Of course. All the time. You know, especially when he gets out easily. Next net, they're trying to pepper him. You know? Say, come on, focus. You know?

1:01:29Michael Vaughan: Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. Guys, brilliant. We've finished with a few community questions. There's one coming from... It's anonymous, but I think it's from R Gould at the ECB, I think. Did your West Indies team ever have a curfew in place? Yeah. Yeah, once. I can't recall. And Curtly mashed it up. Nah, nah, just kidding, just kidding. No, it was mostly for most of the younger players who go on tour and figure that they wanted us to enjoy themselves a little too much. The senior players, we were OK. But one second we called you with Curtly,

1:02:12Phil Tufnell: but it didn't last very long. Gary didn't go to bed. Gary Sorbers went to bed at 2, 3 o 'clock. Gary liked to stay up. That's how you're prepared. My first tour in 84, I think we had curfew to start with. That's when we won, I think, all five games. But the thing about it is, with the curfew, there was nobody even looking to break the curfew. What time were you finding the moment? The curfew was supposed to be midnight, but Joe Liddell would probably come in just a little bit after midnight. If his curfew was 12, he'd come in at quarter pass. Do you still play the music? Of course. I love the music.

1:02:50I know. Are you still in the band, are you? Yes. As a matter of fact, I'm looking to buy me another bass guitar. My wife cursing me. She's here with me. I have seven basses. Seven. And she's like, what do you want another bass for? But I don't know. It's just I can't walk past the music shop and don't go inside. So I'm thinking about another bass to make it eight. My wife isn't happy. She's gone.

1:03:13Sir Alastair Cook: Too many guitars.

1:03:14Michael Vaughan: Corn, here's one for you. How did you find coaching Zimbabwe? We enjoyed you knocking out the Aussies. It was very, very good. When he woke up. Very, very good. I really impressed with the guys. They wanted to get better. And as you speak, actually, they're having a good test match against Bangladesh at the moment. But the structure, the plans and what they want to do going forward, I'm impressed with it. So I'm happy to be on board. I'm going to rejoin them in August. Oh, brilliant. Really looking forward to that. That was going to be the last question. What are you both doing now and what's the future looking like?

1:03:46David 'Bumble' Lloyd: He's beaming me next week. Well, I'm coming over here, taking some of the cricket, the female cricket, and of course, I watch a game or so for the England-New Zealand series. But I'm doing some charity work with Lashins. Yeah. And my good friend over here, Mr... Well, sir. I'm going to be nice today, but when I see him next week... Two sirs, two sirs, two sirs. I'm not going to be too nice, you know, because I remember him from last year, probably for a few sixes, so I'm going to take him to the bench. Yeah. But, you know, I do some charity work and stuff with Lashins, which I do enjoy doing. to raise funds for the honor privilege and all that.

1:04:21Then I go back in two weeks to prepare for the CPL. I'm with the Antigua Barbreedal Falcons. So I'm going to prepare for that. So I'm here doing the same thing with Lash. Supposing a lot of charities, homeless, canceled, whatever. It's a big deal for men. I just happy to be able to give back in that way. The family came over and we're having a good time here. And I'm really excited about going back to Zim. I've done a two-year deal with them, so I'm going to be with them for the next two years, helping them to come along. And they've got some promising young fast bowlers. But what I love about it is the willingness of wanting to do well and the guys really listening and stuff.

1:04:58And even now, I'm in touch with a few of them just to make sure that they're OK, keeping them calm. And I'll be with them for... It's a great day.

1:05:06Phil Tufnell: Would you like to be involved in West Indies cricket now? Of course. I've made that known ever since I retired from cricket. I did all these coaching courses and stuff because you know they say you gotta have some kind of certificate to say you're certified coach i did all of that yeah i'm level three and i'm not in the system so maybe when i get the 75 years of age when you've done it sometimes it might need a bit of tough love yeah the love's there but you've got to be tough as well i mean to be fair you know i did two years with the senior team you did from 2014 to 2016 we won the team in india and then i was sacked

1:05:47David 'Bumble' Lloyd: Well, you drew against us in 2015. Yeah. Yes, yeah. Your team talks are legendary on the outfield. So I was sacked after winning the T20 World Cup. Maybe I shouldn't have won it. I was a selector then, right? So you got rid of it? No, no. I was a selector then for the players. That was my only involvement in the big team. I was a selector for the female and men's team. 2016 and then left for Bangladesh. and while I was in Bangladesh I was told we need you guys back in the system. Similar to the speech that he got and I got that thing so I said okay my contract finished 2019 here for the World Cup with Bangladesh.

1:06:27They said we need you back home. I went home and I got the women team to look after by default for two seasons and then that was it. Never had anything to do with the men's team. Before that I used to come up with the under 15 guys and I don't want to be soundly wrong but I didn't mind working with the 115s because at least you're giving back, you're doing something. And one of my proudest moments after retirement was those youngsters that you see them now and they come over and there's a manager or a coach, whatever, and they can remember what you said to them as youngsters growing up and they're thanking you for it.

1:07:00That's giving back and that's helping the youngsters. And I think that's one of the things in my estimation that is lacking. The experience that is around this table, because we've all played the games. One of the memories that come back to me quickly is when Wes Hall says to me as an 18-year-old, when you go to England, this is the condition you might face. And he painted a picture that by the time I arrived in England, I roughly knew what to expect because he was spot on. I think some of our youngsters today are missing out on that. They're not getting that experience from people like myself and Kirtley who have been there, done it.

1:07:33Don't even talk to them about the conditions. So it's not about being with the senior team. That is not being all head now. You could be with youngsters helping them as well.

1:07:43Michael Vaughan: Guys, brilliant. Thanks so much for coming on. No problem. Thank you very much for having us. Thank you.

1:08:17Michael Vaughan: Thanks for listening and thanks to our partners, Betfair. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode. And if you want to support the show, please leave us a five-star review and help others find it too. See you next time.