Where Is English Cricket Going Wrong? Mark Butcher Joins | Stick to Cricket EP 32

0:00Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners Betfair. Hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show. Morning. All good? Yeah, I'm excited for Butch today. What's happening, Kieran? Well, is Butch going to sit there? He's here, instead of Cookie. It's the first time we've not had a guest on the end, but... Any chance of you getting me the right cards? Are these the wrong ones? This is the last one. Let me grab them. Yeah, I'll drop them away so they don't...

0:32Lovely.

0:35all right sis hey mate how are you good good you've got your own little pew in the corner haven't you yeah i'm enjoying it over here i think that's where the football um one's filmed there yeah i mean gary neville's seat i think i think it is gary street that yeah keeping it warm is that right that gary street yeah need um have a drink what's that drink that he had it's huell You want some hue Some hue. Yeah, so you what you do ones Another flavor you prefer yeah, go chocolate chocolate chocolate. Oh you got some I've got loads of you mate How'd you keep it all even other way the back here? Oh Got York City as well.

1:15Yes, this is the set up back here. Yeah, yeah, this is you. Does it come out of a fridge? Well, you're with them in the fridge here actually What you've been up to me? Yeah, I went to Austria last weekend. Did you? Skiing? No, I was just bored. I was in the pub on Friday night, right, and I was like, I've got no plans this weekend. So I just looked up where is the cheapest flight anywhere, and it was Salzburg, Austria. Thank you. Who did you go with? Just a mate. Just a mate and went to salt mines and stuff. Erdinger? Yeah, went to a brewery with a load of monks. It was good. Monks do the brewery.

1:47All right, bud. All right, bud. Here he is.

1:52He nipped off to Austria for a weekend. He's been in the boozer with the monks. Well, there's a brewery over there. Monks brew all the beer. Yeah, lovely. So you go over there and it's dead cheap as well. So it's like seven quid for a stein. Nice. Leaf or something, innit? All the blondes. You don't notice it and then you go outside after having like two of them. Wallop. Yeah, lovely. The monks are at it, are they? All the monks are at it. Oh, hey, hey. When they get going monking... Yeah, do I look all right? Where's the old strummer? It's ready whenever you want it. Yeah, we'll get it going at some stage, yeah.

2:31Who is it? Bumble. Bumble. Dave. Is it a new sweater on? Very nice. How much was it? How much? No, it's on the rack. You just need it. Well, you were there to wear. You've got to wear something different. Yeah, is that the designer's there? Is that the fashion? It's like leaving the sticker on your baseball cap. You've got some scissors. You've got some scissors. Anybody got any? I'll get one. You've got some scissors. I can hide it. I can shove it. Stick it down your back. It'll get scratchy, though. It'll get a little bit scratchy. Suites you that. Lovely colour. Matches your eyes. I like this.

3:11I did try. I thought I'll put this on and it would put you in. Oh, wow. Good on the golf course, that. Yeah, I'm not golfing. I can't golf this weather. No, easy. What are you off now? What's your handicap? Seven. Seven. A shot hole. Eighteen. Eighteen. You'd be six. Four. Legends. There'll be a time on your hands. Four? Got only one, Butch, didn't you? Did you get the old... I got two in a week. No way. One of Mercedes would be the first one. Yeah. Am I right here? That's right. Where? Burrheath. Oh, well done, Kieran. I had to fix it. So are you allowed to accept the Mercedes or does that make you a pro?

3:54I had to have it delivered. You've won the Mercedes? It was 2015, I think it was. Really? That's right. Two hole in one's? Oh, blimey. Was it straight? Was it never missing or did it hit a tree? I didn't see it. It was blind on a par three. I couldn't see the bottom of the flag. Tiptoed up to the hole with the bloke who was running the thing. Yeah. Yeah. We both sort of tiptoed up to the hole and see the ball in there. I jump in the air and he catches me, this like 6 '5 massive geezer and he's bouncing me around and going, no one's ever done that. 12 years I've been doing this gig, no one's ever won one.

4:33No. He was happier than me. Yeah. Couldn't hold on. Never missing. What sort of Mercedes was it? A-Class. Oh. Nice. That's a task. Do you get taxed on that? No. It's just a gift. That's unbelievable isn't it? I thought that if you accepted something as a payment as a golf amateur you had to turn to be a pro. Well I mean, if so my time is up. Is something in that? You're scratching. Laying like a busted arse. You're getting no shots off us. It's 11 years ago. How's your golf? Show us your swing. It's not great. My back's gone a little bit. My back's gone a little bit. What do you look to do? Are you a fader or a drawer?

5:21I'm not really sure, Mike. I'm not really sure. I get a bit of trouble with this elbow. It's flying, chicken wing. Keep it in tight. I've got to keep it in here. Yeah. I get a little bit there. Yeah. Then I sort of there. Right, OK. Over extra cover. It's funny because I can hit a golf ball beautifully over extra cover. I could never hit a cricket ball over extra cover. But I can do it. And then it's back. Nice and straight there. Rotation. That's not straight. Rotation, rotation, and then in comes the transition. And then off you go. How far are you talking? How far? You drive, 220? No, a bit further than 220.

5:58You get to 250. Yeah, 250, 250. What's that? I went 220, 250, you went, not with that swing. No, I can get round, Mike. Kieran, can I have a new cup? I'm not I love wonky and I'm sorry yeah you got a lot of mucking yours yeah yeah I've had about well I've had about buddy a quarter zones in that shoulder and I've only found out now you're horrible you're only meant to have about three in a career and you're something yeah starts to rot I'm with the west Indies tomorrow chiropractor tomorrow oh yeah oh yeah West Indies I had to have one in Jamaica you were you were coach there yeah yeah and I've I'd gone there about seven o 'clock in the morning.

6:41Have I told this story? The 98 tour? The short test match in Jamaica? Yeah, about seven o 'clock in the morning. I think it was Wayne, was it? Wayne Morton or something. He's come there and he said, Phil, you know, you've got to go there. So I've got there and listen, I might have had a few run punches the night before. So I'm sitting there waiting to go and see the doctor. And do you know that? It was red hot. And you sort of, you've got your tracksuit on there, feeling a bit sort of like that. And the smell, you know, that sort of hospital smell came on me like that. So the bloke said, oh, Mr Tufnell, we'll see you now.

7:14All right, you've come for the thing. We're just going to give you an X-ray first. So he put me up against the X-ray thing, you know, on the left shoulder. He's walked round to the... Yeah, yeah, yeah. To get it clear. Pressure. And I fainted. I fainted. I fell on the floor and fainted. And this fella's come round. and he's gone, right, oh, where's Mr Tocco gone like that? So he's come running round like that and he's brought me back round and he said, and you're meant to be England's secret weapon. He said, you haven't even had the jab yet. Dave, how's the garden? Yeah, really good. Got some snow up there, haven't you?

7:56Yeah. Oh, no good for onions. No, onions are all right. Onions are coming. They like the snow, do they? well they did not inconvenience by the raised bed and they've come to do any sham when you're an onion I've got some raised beds yeah stuff yesterday yes what you've got a few rose bushes and trees just a bit of replanting stuff read on some turf areas of every turfed a few areas right yeah close down a bit in winter though done it yeah yeah but but in the in the woodland it all the everything's coming all your daffodils tulips bluebells snowdrops are all coming absolutely brilliant what's going to be new for 26 out of the garden what we having on the table what do you give works is some pears some did you give him some pears did you have onions give him onions sweet corn right which we give peers more than sweet which is not got any time of year yeah seasonal you've been unlucky there but you've come on the show and he's not going to do anything that's different i've got my winter uh lettuces in the greenhouse so that will the head start and that will go in in early spring and i'll get a lettuce all all summer i'll get lettuce all iceberg i got some iceberg yeah and someone some long leaf spinachy sort of stuff yeah and do you go on feel or or do you go on a diary you know do you have it all in the diary when no you have to Or do you just go on the...

9:26Howard's CSI investigator, crime scene investigator, he has everything. Who? Howard, my mate. Right. And he sort of has... But I don't, I just go off. You're an instinctive grower, are you? Yeah. Tomatoes, got a tomato. My earlies have gone in. Potato, early potatoes. Right. Because you've got to chip them. You've got to chip your potatoes. What does chip mean? So you get your earlies from wherever, and then you put them just on a big plate, a bit like that. Right. And just leave them and they start sprouting. That's chitting. And they all start sprouting out your potatoes. Sprouting, is that?

10:00Yeah. Yeah. And then you put them in your bag. I put mine in bags, not in beds. I put them in big bags. Right. And they grow up and one other greenery, greenery, greenery. And when it goes woof and turns yellow, there's your potatoes. Lovely. So you've got your first early, second early is a main crop. So you've got your new's, new potatoes. Yeah, yeah, that's first early. Oh, is that first early? First early's a new potato. Jersey Royals. Yeah, they're lovely. Absolutely. Have you got Jersey Royals, have you? Yeah, that sort of thing. Yeah, new potatoes. Gorgeous. Tomatoes, I get me tomatoes.

10:34They've got me. Welcome to the show, bud. This is a show about butch. This is it. You're a lot, man. That's all been knocked out. No, that'll be in. Let's start the show. Come on. Before we get started, I'd like to thank our partners, Betfair. So just hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Enjoy the show.

10:59Guitarist. Stitch. No, what's his name? Slash. Slash. Talking of that, I'm bursting. What we're looking for is a reaction from people who watch Stick to Cricket. What's your reaction? What would you do? Dorney was my best batting coach. I started batting better when I married Dorney. Yeah? Yeah. What did she tell you? She told me to stop being such a wush, get behind the line and f***ing get stuck in. I felt as though I probably wouldn't ever play for England again. Personal life was a disaster. Lots of things that were self-inflicted, but also I just wasn't very happy with how I was playing. And for the winner,£20 million.

11:35£20 million. I'm playing again.

11:42Get your back. Because lots of people thought that it should have been them. All right. You know, including a very good mate of mine. I was very upset. I said a very good mate. We'll be the backing singers over this side.

12:07Let's start, but Crystal Palace, where are we going to go with Palace? FA Cup winners, Community Shield winners, and then... They just turfed out half the team, haven't they? I mean, the thing about a team like Palace is stay up, isn't it? beginning of every season stay up he's still at that level because I thought it moved on from it's still you know it's a fabulous ground incredible sort of home support right out incredible atmosphere but it's still behind the goal they're all in black are you in there it's rough if I go I might be in hospitality somewhere I love my I'll have my old my old school teacher and and coach Steve Kemble will come round and do a little skit at half-time, tell us what's going on.

12:53There you go. John Salarco and that lot. I still see Smithy quite a bit, yeah. I used to see Alan Smith in Australia. Yeah, he used to turn up the manager, not Alan Smith, the pundit. Yeah, the manager. Alan Smith, the manager. He always tore. Big Surrey fan. Just loves the sun. Wherever the sun is, that's where you find out. Are you involved? Overripe apple. Are you involved at Surrey at all? No. Not at all? No, not... Because Stewie's gone back, hasn't he? Stewie's gone back. Yeah. Al's back full-time, obviously Gareth Batty. It's still pretty much the same team. If they asked him to come back for a little bit of mentorship...

13:32I don't know. I'm not entirely sure. I'd have him involved at higher level than that. Yeah. Definite. Definite. I've got to tell you, though, I do quite like my job. Well, yes, yes. Yes, we'd, yes. Which pretty much takes up most of the time during the summer. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, you never say never to any of these sorts of things. But at the moment I was a little bit opposite to you talking about sort of like the dressing room and that kind of thing, the stuff that you miss about playing. I actually had had enough of that. Really? Not that I didn't enjoy it, because as you know, I loved it.

14:07Yeah. But by the time I kind of retired, which is what now? geez, 17 years ago, it would be in August. I'd kind of... And part of that is probably because you get older and the guys that you grew up playing with are gone and they're all younger and it's a little bit more difficult to relate and you're at different periods in your career. So I was quite happy to get out of that environment and explore something different. It's funny, though, isn't it? I was thinking the other day, I think I've been a pundit commentator within the media as long as I was a player now. So I retired in 2009. I started in 92, so that's 17 years.

14:49I started Punditers in 2010 when I'm 26, so pretty much level pegging. Yeah, I'm about three years away from being 50-50. So I am 25. 42 years. Double bubble. 42 years as a... Pundit. Pundit, yeah. Talking, talking, talking, bloody talking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think you've got somebody, you know, all of us here, you've got so much experience and number one cricket experience, but life experiences, we've all made mistakes and you learn from your mistakes and you're almost like, if you're going back dealing with young cricketers, you're working on life's experiences and you're imparting knowledge and you're almost like a father figure.

15:36You're an uncle, that sort of thing. And, you know, you take great pride when they're doing well, but you've got to put an arm around his shoulder or her shoulder when things are not going as well. How long were you out of cricket dressing rooms before you went back in as a coach? Because I reckon that there's definitely something to be said for having that distance. Absolutely. Jimmy Anderson about... Over 10 years. Yeah, and I think it's quite important. I know a lot of guys now, they've finished playing and they go straight, almost immediately straight into a dressing room, particularly if it's a dressing room that you know, whether it be with England or a county team that you just quit playing for.

16:12And I think you can find yourself in a difficult spot there simply because you haven't had that distance away from that dressing room environment. It's quite difficult to kind of have the kind of respect and the trust of the players if they knew what you were like as a player, you know what I mean? You have to, I think that sort of separation, however long it might be, is quite a useful thing. First of all, to grow your skills and knowledge as far as coaching and management. is concerned but also just to put a bit of distance between yourself the player and andrew flintoff did all sorts done some fantastic stuff yeah and then you know in his mind i'll need to i need to get back into cricket which he's done and he's been away for for so long but he's still revered by younger players and and he's now well he's sort of been fast-tracked into the layers and andrew will be learning on the hoof it never leaves you though does it no that that sort a passion and love for the game.

17:10But do you not... I mean, you and I were just chatting in there. There comes a time when you want to impart knowledge and work with a young bowler. You know, a young left-arm spinner. Somebody like Tom Hartley at length. Here's Philippe, he played for England. Just one-to-one with somebody that's done exactly the same thing. I think that's great. I have no problem with... Say if you're at a county, I'm going to bring this guy in to work with him for a couple of three days and go away. I've been saying for years that... So batting. Me and Butch, you were bowlers, batter. I think we're in an era now that actually you want your own batting coach.

17:50And what one-to-one? Without any question. Like a golfer now would have his own coach. His own team. Batting is you. Bowling is you. And you get put into an environment, say at Yorkshire, at Surrey, at Lanx or at England, it might be that you don't connect with that batting coach. or with that bowling coach. So I would personally, in this era, with the coin that they've got, I would want my own batting coach. And if you're in charge of English cricket, you know, you would say there was team time, say on the Wednesday or before the Thursday start, but on the Monday, Tuesday, you should be allowed to bring in your coach.

18:23If you're working on specific technical, mental, physical, whatever it may be. I bet he went back to his dad. There you go. Good coach, Al. I had a bit of Alan's time. Yeah. So we had a great time with Alan. Oh, jeez. Down in Cotter's lap. We've just been hammered, haven't we? You'd run me out, I'd run you out that way. Yeah, yeah. We got... It was when Tudes got hit on the head. Oh, there you are. We ended up down on... What was it called? The Tea Room, wasn't it? Tea Room, Popslow Beach. We were at that stage... Tea Room? Was it much tea drunk? We saw... Let's be totally honest. In an era where we're having a go at the drinking culture of this team, team we we saw off the lunch and we tried to go for the evening session they kicked us out we'd run out of the sermon we'd done a whole crate of it you mentioned yeah god god to be fair though that was there was a break wasn't there between the there you got test match that was that was the played three we were three down and then we weren't going to play we weren't going to play until christmas so we had there was about a two-week break there was one day as it was over Yeah, one day.

19:31The damage had been done. So we had a little bit of time. I had a wonderful tactical injury. I was actually in the one-day side around that time. No idea why, but I was in it, yes. And I had a tactical... I got whacked on the shoulder, remember? Yeah. And I had some kind of issue with it. So I missed the two weeks of one-day cricket leading to Christmas. So we basically went on a noosa trip. That's a great shout, though, Mike. It's a great shout. There's one or two other things. You look at the ECB now as it's run. You know, you have a board of directors, a lot of business people that are making decisions within our game.

20:06Ebony A. Fibrent is the cricket expert on that board. I personally would, if I was in charge of the ECB, I'd have a panel of ex-players as an advisory board. Whoever those people may be, men and women, that meet every now and again to decide upon what could happen within our game. They deliver what they believe is. You remember the old MCC cricket committee, but they had no power. The advisory board for the ECB should be some ex-players that are passionate about the game, clever on the game, and they deliver. We've seen this, we've seen that. This could potentially help. Do with it whatever you want, but that's what we've seen.

20:44Completely distanced from the England set-up. So there's no emotional ties. I think a lot of the decision-makers at the minute within English cricket are too emotionally attached to what's actually happening. So you do make sometimes judgmental decisions because you're too attached to the personnel involved. If you had a little separate board just over here. Fresh eyes. You know, you look at major businesses generally have an advisory board to basically point the question of the CEO, the chair, or the directors, why are you doing this, why are you doing that? It's not being ultra-critical all the time, but it's seeing it from a different set of eyes.

21:15Yeah. That's what I would bring into English cricket. Yeah. Well, what struck that was Adelaide and no spinner. Now, you get wrapped up in this bubble, don't you? You know what I mean? But I was talking to the Aussies and I was talking to... I was working with Darren Lehman and Glenn and everything. He said, you've got to play a spinner. You've got to play. This is the one place that, if anything, you've got to play a spinner. And there seemed to be something that sort of clogged up the... But I'd go before that, Phil, and just say the preparation. Well, yes, I don't know necessarily. But that's the spinner's journey for two and a half years.

21:54But I'd go before that and, you know, a group of people detached from the actual set-up would have probably delivered, we're looking at your preparation and that doesn't look quite right to us. I know what you're saying, yeah. You know, you're making decisions which are for this group and what you believe in, but, you know, from this experience which is here, without the attachment of the emotion, we're not sure this preparation's going to serve you great for Australia. this is what we think you could be doing. All the big lads, all the NFL and baseball and everything, they have their own team, don't they?

22:26As you said, golfers, they have their own chef, they have their own sort of people coming around with them. Just an idea. No, I agree with it to a certain degree. I think there are always times, particularly when you go on tour, there are always times whereby you kind of need to check in with somebody that you trust. There you go. Maybe not for the whole trip, but there would certainly be occasions where you go midpoint of a tour or prior to the first test or whatever it might be, let's have a little catch-up, make sure that everything's in the right sort of place. So I'd certainly have no problem.

23:00As long as those people, Butch, are not just going to tell them what they want to hear. No, no, no. But I'm not talking about an advisory board. I'm going back to the coaching idea about having players have their own individual guys. and a lot of that is down I would I would imagine that the guys who are in charge currently would have no issue with that I did I did play or was around some coaches who wouldn't like to didn't like having other coaches coming in and putting their two penneth worth in because they felt it was kind of stepping on their toes a little bit but I think the door should always be open for for input if the players feel it's going to help them I mean that's what it's all about isn't it so you've got your head coach and under him would be a bowling batting field in wikiki specialist coaches who were here points we work with the head coach now the individual batter or bowler can bring his own in as and when not every time he might he might say look i want such a body to come in with me and he would work with that coach he would work with him there's no problem with that just a dialogue isn't it yeah yeah of course dawny was my best batting coach I started batting better when I married Dorney.

24:11Yeah? Yeah. What did she tell you? She told me to stop being such a wush, get behind the line and get stuck in. Did she play? Did Dorney have a go? No. What's her day rate? I used to get a few after that. She said stop being such a wuss. Day rate, if it's a golfer, I assume that the golfer pays for his coach. Absolutely, yeah. So what we're saying is that if a batter, who's pretty well paid for England wants a batting coach it's his batting coach he's paying for it not the ECB No absolutely that's what I'm saying if I was in this era with the amount of money that these players earn and I knew I had a connection with a coach that wasn't involved in the England I'll throw up a name Toby Radford I see him on Instagram he's a batting coach and he's very technical and I like some of his stuff I'd be thinking if I was working with Toby Radford and giving him X but I wanted him there on the Tuesday before the Thursday.

25:06Surely, yeah, it's down to you to pay him. That's it. Surely, if you're the England coach management, you'd be going, yeah, yeah, bring him in, no problem. That's it. And he doesn't need to be in the dressing room. No, no. And he just comes and does his work and then leaves. That's it. You've done, finished. Yeah, I mean, you just arrive at the Nets and you work with the player and there you go. I recall that Darren Gough would always go back to Steve Holden. Yeah. Always. There you go. And we had some lovely blots. We had Bob Cotton. Jeff Arnell was around at that time. Peter Lever before I got involved but Darren would always check in just check in with Steve Holden check in Yeah, right.

25:44We've sorted it. Should we go? Yeah Stick to cricket is brought to you by Betfair

25:55But let's start with your early cricketing memories I know you've been from a cricketing family Family. What was your first ever memory of cricket? Do you remember when it was? Jeez. I can remember being at the Oval, probably two, three years old. And the ground was very, very different. Very, very different to what it was. It was dirty at that time. Yeah, it was. Filthy. And it had the huge outfield. The ground has gradually got smaller. The playing areas gradually got smaller and smaller as the stands and stuff had gone up. I remember being there and I remember my summer holiday spending most of the time either at the Oval or Guildford or going down to Canterbury and stuff and watching the old man play.

26:43You know, calling people like Sylvester Clarke and David Smith, Uncle, you know, these guys. I was in the dressing room from being a toddler. Picking the bats up. marvelling at the you know the the kit and all that kind of stuff the smell of the dressing rooms it was kind of it was there right from the very very start would you probably be with that again gary gary was gary would have been guess is three years younger than me so yeah i mean so from you know the time he was he was four or five years old we used to get we used to live down in um sort of near pearly sort of down in south london almost 12 o 'clock from sort of where the uh six o 'clock from where the oval is and we get on the 109 bus um at you know 10p or whatever it was each to jump on the bus and we get up on the bus in the summer holidays and we go through stratham and brixton and all this kind of stuff and get off the bus just outside the oval tube station and go and watch the games and that was how we spent our summer holidays and they had they had the you remember the old um the old astroturf nets that used to be out there but you know where the where the back of the ground is now the alex stewart gate but the voxel end there used to be sort of like two net structures that were up permanently, AstroTurf nets.

27:54And so, you know, the games would be on and me and my brother got sort of permission from Jeff Arnold or whatever as the head coach. We'd go and nick a couple of balls from the dressing room and go down and play in the nets all day. And that was some holiday. Yeah. I was... They're lovely. I was Gary Skipper on the 19s. Yes, you were. Was that Sri Lanka? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Gary was on the trip. Yeah. Legend. What's he doing now? Coaching? Coaching, yeah. Yeah. He was at, so he quit playing 2001. Gaz won, Gaz got three county championship medals. Glamorgan. One with Glamorgan and two with Surrey.

28:28And then stopped playing, I think, 2002 maybe. And then worked at KCS Wimbledon, so a big private school in Wimbledon Village, for 20 years. And now he's sort of doing his own thing with a coach and stuff. That would have been what Wackar played for Glamorgan, wouldn't it? Yeah, he was Wackar's driver. What's his expertise in coaching? Is he an all-round coach or is he more geared towards batting? No, no, all-round. Yeah, I mean, so in his school life, he's qualified to coach basketball, rugby, football, the whole thing. So he does the whole sporting gamut. Yeah. What you ideally need as a batting coach is one that can coach you golf as well.

29:11Two for one. There you go. That's what you need, don't you? Boots, I mean, your fabulous career. Was it 85 tests? No, 71. Oh, was it 71? Oh, crikey, I've got that one. 71 split into two parts, really. Yeah. Would you... When you look back at it, would you feel that you were perhaps helped along your way? I mean, it's a great lump of test matches. Um, no, I wouldn't say that. What I would say is that... So, the first team I played for was when Bumble was coach. Fantastic. I mean, couldn't have been sort of more welcomed. And so a lot of players, when I think when they appear in the England side for the first time, they have that...

29:54There's two ways you can go. You're either kind of like, you either kind of fit in straight away or you kind of feel like you're on the outside. And I was fortunate, obviously you had Stewie in there and Graham Thorpe and people like that. Nasser, I knew. Who else was about at the time? Rampo. Little bit. Ramps was in 97. Ath, yeah, Ramps. Goffy, well, Athers I got to know because we opened together. So that's how I, that's the first time. You were there. So it's the first time I met Athers. And then we kind of got on like a house on fire straight away. So I was really lucky. I got into the team at a time where I felt welcomed into it.

30:29Now, looking back on it, I probably wasn't good enough at the time. I'd had a really good two or three years before I got selected in 97, had a really good A tour that you and I were on, went under Adam Hollyoak. And you kind of like felt like, okay, this is cool. But then I went and played Test Match Cricket and thought, hang on, I'm not quite as happy with how I play as I might be. And I played 25, 27 Test Matches between 97 and the South Africa Tour of 99, 2000. And then got left out for probably about a year and a half and yourself and Trez open the batting and all the rest of it and and I felt as though I probably wouldn't ever play for England again and I you know personal life was a disaster lots of things that were self-inflicted but also I just wasn't very happy with how I was playing um so in that first in that first little chunk of playing test match cricket I made I don't know I think we've got a couple hundred got one against Australia I got one again away from home against Australia and and then one against South Africa, was kind of part of the team that beat South Africa under Bumble in that 98, that epic 98 series.

31:40Yeah, but all that while in those first 25, 27 Test matches, I never really felt that comfortable, you know. What with my game, not in terms of the environment. Was that your game in terms of a technical sense, mentality of the stage, what Test cricket brought? The mentality part of it, I was always fine with. I kind of, I wasn't ever one to sort of make excuses or anything like that. And I always felt as though the pressure or the sort of like the elevated nature of Test match cricket was something that didn't bother me greatly. It was more internal. It was more my ability to play the way that I wanted to or, you know, the way I had imagined myself playing when I was watching Gower playing and stuff like that.

32:27And I kind of got into lots of very ordinary habits and kind of didn't really have a coach that I trusted to check in with about various things. And before you know it, particularly given the nature of English cricket where you're playing all the time and then you go on tour and then you come back and you start all over again, you'd start in one position feeling it was pretty good and within three months you look like a completely different player and you don't even realise, you've got no knowledge of that fact. And so that was the journey of the first bit. And then the second part where I played 42 tests on the bounce from 2001 Ashes to whenever it was I'd spent a good Three months with my dad Without I remember that I called him at Christmas.

33:13I think it must have been Christmas 2000 you guys were being South of Sri Lanka and Pakistan at the time And I basically said to him, I said I've got two options. Either I'm going to quit or... What, quit the game? Yeah. I was hating it. Early doors. Really hating it.

33:34Or can you help me type thing. And I said, treat me like I've never played the game before. So I wasn't guaranteed I was going to start for Surrey at the beginning of 2001 and I knew I was nowhere near playing for England. So I said, look, just treat me like I'd like teach me how to pick the bat up, how to stand right, right back to the beginning. And we did January, February, March and half of April. Just me and him, tennis balls, tennis ball bowling machines, him dribbling balls along the floor. Changed my grip, changed my stance, changed my back, changed everything. and leading into that. So we get to the April of 2001 and I get left out at the first championship game of the summer and I'm kind of like, jeez, I played at Didsbury.

34:22Yeah. The second team game at Didsbury, right? Glen Chappell is also in the second team. Didsbury in April, cricket club. Chappie marks out his run up three paces. I'm standing there just like, what the hell are we doing here? Chappie runs up, bowls this wide, wide delivery that almost pitches off the strip. I just fling my hands at it, inside edge it, back onto leg stump. I look at Chappie and go, marvellous. And walk off. So that's the beginning of 2001 season. You get injured, Ramske gets injured, Thorpe gets injured. Everyone falls down dead. And I happened to make 80 or something in a NatWest semifinal on the TV just before they announced the first squad for the Ashes in 2001.

35:07and they picked me and I played bat number three. And that was that. So the whole thing from wanting to quit in December 2000 ended up with me playing that first and playing all of those Ashes Test matches in 2001 and then not missing one for three years. And could have quit. And could have quit. And you captained England. What was that against New Zealand? Old Trafford. The 99. Old Trafford. How did that come about? Nasa broke a finger at Lorde. Yeah, that's right. I'm believing Larry. Extraordinarily. And at the beginning, so the 99 season was Surrey won the championship that year. First time since 1971 or something.

35:51It's been a long, old time, 28 years. And I kept in Surrey up until Smokey got back after the World Cup or something. So probably about seven, eight championship games. And we were 20 points clear, top of the table. Anyway, NASA breaks his finger. In that team are Michael Atherton, former England captain. Stewie? Alex Stewart, former England captain. Graham Hibb, Graham Thorpe, Mark Rambrakash. Gus, no, did Frey's play? I don't know. Cork? Dean Hedley, Caddick. I was there. You played. Because we went in with just Hedley and Caddick. You played a lot of games. With the two seamers and you and Peter Such were the two spinners.

36:31We only have four bowlers in the team. It was a strange... It was a strange line. Who kept wicket? Jack? No. No, Stewie. Alec Mustafee. Alec Mustafee. So, Nassar breaks a finger, and we have no coach at the time, so you've been bombed out. Duncan Fletcher is due to start at the end of that summer, so that was your first tour. Graham Gooch was coach. Graham Gooch was sort of interim coach. Interim coach. Anyway, so we turn up at Old Trafford, and Butcher, you're going to be captain. It went down like an absolute shit sandwich in the dressing room. Did it? Lots of people thought it should have been them, including a very good mate of mine.

37:07I was very upset. I said a very good mate. So that was interesting. And then also what was interesting was that they'd come up with the idea that we were going to play two spinners no matter what. And I went to Gucci and to Grav, who was the chairman of selectors at the time, I said, look, this was in the days before you were allowed to pull people out of four-day cricket. I said, look, Craig White's playing up the road. I said, why don't we? I think we were batting down to seven or something. Hickey was coming in at seven or something. Why don't we just call Craig White down and we can play you two spinners that you've got your heart set on, but we've also got three seamers, okay?

37:53That seems like a reasonable thing. Give me a chance with the toss or whatever. No, that's not going to happen. Okay, so we've got this completely unbalanced side. I go out to toss up with Stephen Fleming and it's a proper Manchester day. You can reach up and touch the sky. It's as grey and overcast as you could possibly like. And I'm thinking, oh fuck, I've got two spinners and two seamers. I can't win the toss and bowl, but it's a win the toss and bowl day. And sure enough, I win the sodding toss. And I'm like, well, I'll have a bat. And Deon Nash gets seven for in about 15 minutes. And they bowl us out for 150.

38:30Yeah. Next day, bright blue skies, they get 500 and something over the next two and a half days in the field. Yeah, there you go. And fortunately, Sunday comes along and myself, Ath, Nass and Stewie are all out. There's four of us out on the Sunday night with Monday to go and us to batting to save the game. So we go out. We end up in Hale somewhere. Yeah. I'm in the Peter Reid and Ryan Giggs. You're in Vegas. You're in Vegas. Absolutely. The game's over for us, you know, so we're all pissed. That's loud. And it pisses it down with rain all Monday, match drawn, right? So I'm like, this is okay.

39:13Well, it's not so bad. Captain of the test match, haven't lost it. I go down to do the press conference at the end of the test match, and normally, you know, the press secretary or whoever it was, Andy Walpole would come and take you down and you'd sit down in front of the press and they're just gunning for everybody. They want everybody gone. And I sit down and there's no one there. I'm by myself and the press and they all plonk their recorders down. And I say, the Immortal Lions, they sort of say, you know, what about selection? Who's going to play? And I say, the Immortal Lions, well, I said, well, you know, nobody's place is guaranteed for the last Test match.

39:48Bearing in mind, won all this series at the time and the decider is at the Oval next week. So I sort of get up and leave. I thought, that was a bit fucking weird. Where was the sort of representation of the ECB? I was just there on my top. Next morning, but you've been dropped for the Oval. And we lose the game to be the worst team in the world. We fall behind Zimbabwe or something, lose the game at the Oval. Get booed off. And Nasser get booed on the team. I got dropped. Captain the team in the third test match and got dropped for the fourth. So Nasser comes back in. Yes. Did you drop him? No.

40:23I didn't drop him. I was just trying to kick my head down. Nasser's dropped him and put himself back in. Right, so Nasser did play that last game. He played the last game because he was up on the balcony. I appreciate it. That's why Chris was all riding in the dressing room. Did Cairns hit you for a monster there? Hey, listen, I got him out a load of time. So you batted nine in that game, didn't you? You had Mullally and... Giddens. And Ed Giddens behind you. Yeah, I did. Darren Maddy opened in that game. That's right. It was chaos. Those days were... So you were at number nine? With your zenith?

40:56Absolutely! Was it zenith then? I think I might have got four or something like that. So who were coming in behind you? Mullally? Mullally and Giddens? Mullally and Giddens. 1911! But it just goes to show... I mean, two spinners. Two spinners. They were determined for two spinners. One don't get a game now. It's almost gone. you know that's how long ago it was Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair how are we going to get more spin in the game I don't know spin for me I mean quick bowling and real quality spin is it's the great spectacle of our game play a county championship in summer that would help that would help but there are stats you know over the last few years that April has been a time where spinners bowled a lot more overs than actually down the back end.

41:50Because you're playing on either down at Somerset or at Northampton, wherever the spinning wickets are, you bowl a lot of spin. But down the back end of the summer, it's nibblies, little seamers, green. See, the problem with April is not necessarily in terms of... They'll bowl a lot of overs of spin, but that's only because the seamers can't get it to carry through to the keeper. The pitches are so soft at that time of year. The ground is so cold. And they're flat. The ground is cold. and the pitches end up being flat, so the runs scored in April. I need a whiteboard. Kieran? The runs scored in April are astronomical.

42:23They fill their boots in April. We're going to do something here. Four cricketing minds. We're going to sort out the English summer. We're not talking itinerary. No, we're going to do a... Where's the whiteboard? We're going to do... We're going to go... Let's not go down that rabbit hole. You're saying county cricket. We're going to go, right, what does our English summer look like? Four wonderful brains. We're in charge. Can I just start? Well, I'll put my view first. Well, you're going to be on the board, so you're going to be able to make decisions. 18 counties, I'm going to stick with 18 counties.

42:59I don't want to reduce anything. Right. But I'd like three divisions of six. OK, I like that. And they play ten matches. And each division has a winner. Yeah. And the best loser over the three divisions. So now you've got a semi-final and a final. Yeah, yeah. And so now we're playing 12, 13 matches. But to the member, the public, who's saying, I don't want to reduce, I want you to see quality, absolute quality cricket. We're going to play it in the summer months when it's beautiful and the pitches are right. And for the winner,£20 million. £20 million. I'm playing again.

43:43Get your back! We're going to get Alan as my coach. Our game has just got£550 million. Correct. There's no difference between£530 and£550. Take£20 million out of that for the winner of the county championship. In your April months, starting mid-April, sudden death, 50 over cricket. Sudden death. Minor counties in, you dread playing Staffordshire or Cornwall away. Christ, you're going to turn us over here. Nice pasty. So it's Sunday, you play your final. Look, we're getting the whiteboard out. Kieran, are you bringing it? He's just trying to bring it through. Oh, God. I do like the three-seater.

44:22I'd love to see them. The Sheffield Shield final is a big game of cricket in Australia. I'd love to see that. But I want the supporter to see quality cricket with quality cricketers at the right time of year. Are you going to go and sit and watch at the Oval? People do. In second or third air. Which is no reason that it should be done then. I'm just saying that people do. But one thing I have to agree with you on is that if there are to be 18 teams, you cannot play the amount of cricket. At the moment, we haven't even got any 50-over cricket to speak of in the country. And the calendar between the beginning of April, which is very, very early, and the very, I mean, the Sri Lanka One Day International at the Overs on the 27th of September, right?

45:06But even with that extended period of time, with all of the cricket and all of the, you know, with the 100 and the blast and needing 50 over cricket, test matches, 14 county championship games I think it is at the moment. There's not enough time. You can't fit all that stuff in. What? What's going on? Look at this. This is the saviour. Phil, you're in charge of the pen. Oh, OK. This is just put... Three divisions. Just put... Let's just write some notes. April, late April. We've got like one it is. It's saving English cricket. OK. Structure. Saving English... Saving the structure. I'm not the best at this.

45:46Saving the structure. I'm not great at writing. Saving the structure. I'll just throw another little... Save the Wales. S-struck. Structure. That'll... C. C. C. That's having you in there. That'll do. That's very good. Right, underline it. That's it. I'd just like to throw another little idea. Please do. I'd actually like to see two four-day games played overseas in March. Don't mind that. Don't mind that. So all these teams go overseas anyway. There's a lot of money that they go to Dubai. They go to Zimbabwe, South Africa, some go to the Caribbean. Could we get a way that we start two four-day games overseas, which gives all our players the opportunity to play overseas rather than the majority of our players only get the chance to prove their skills in the UK?

46:30Coming back to supporters again, you've got to dress that up as a supporters trip. Yep. through the club and through somebody like Gladstone Small, Black Opal Travel, all these, Parmy Army, all that make it a real jamboree and a great fun. Two weeks, a week, you can have a week. Festival, a festival. 18 teams. There you go. 18 teams? Well, 18 teams generally either put a tent up, which is at a cost, or go overseas anyway. So it's an expense that they're kind of utilising in March anyway. And you can help the supporters out. It's not going to be top dollar, you know, because not everyone could afford to go to Dubai, can you?

47:09There must be some sort of little... Well, I know what you mean, and I understand that. Book early. Book early for saving. Supporters who wouldn't necessarily be able to afford. That is a debate. That's not easy for them. YouTube is where county cricket is watched the most. So these YouTube channels, all the counties have, it's where county cricket is watched the most. It's not, there are personnel that turn up to a lot of the county venues and the Obel's probably the perfect example. They get big crowds for county cricket. But the majority don't get a huge amount. But they do get a lot of people watching on YouTube.

47:42So those two games that I would say are overseas. And look, off my head, I'm not too sure where they're going to be played. UAE, India, Paki, wherever. But I just think for the development of English players going forward, I want more of our players to have the chance to prove their worth, you know, with a kookaburra ball or a ball that they use, you know, an SG in India, overseas, because we always say, you know, Sam Cook's the perfect example. Oh, he's not, you know, he's just not quick enough. He's not skilful enough with that Kukaburra ball with the SG. But, well, let's give him two games every year to prove his worth.

48:11And many other bowlers like that. It's a good debate and it'd be interesting to what our viewers think of it. My only concern is, are you depriving people who can't afford to go to Dubai or Sharjah? But you could dress it up as a great festival. I like that. Yeah. It's a festival overseas, which should be great fun. But I do understand that people might not be able to afford it. Right, get your pen. So let's start at the... How long? I'm just trying to think how long it would take to have... So you're talking about nine games of four-day cricket, aren't you? Two weeks. One game a week at different venues.

48:51There are plenty of cricket grounds out in Sharjah and Dubai, Abu Dhabi. You could... Sharjah, Dubai, Abu Dhabi-Dhabi. That's three. Abu Dhabi-Dhabi-Dhabi. Not telling me that, you know, you couldn't do a partnership with India at some stage. Just before the IPL. There's a lot of stuff there. There's a lot... That's... It's a debate down the line. Let's start with 18. We're keeping 18 counties, yeah? It's a debate. I don't think so. It's a debate. It's a debate. No, not for me. So butchers, not 18 counties. I suppose debate. That'll do, that'll do. Did it? Yeah. Yeah. So you want 18 counties, three...

49:31Well, Butch doesn't want 18. How many do you want, Butch? 12. 12 counties. This is a good... I'm with Butch. Ooh. But I would look at 18 counties playing white ball cricket. So six would just be white ball specialist counties. 12 play Red Bull. So when you say three groups of six in Red Bull cricket, I'd have two groups of six. I'm a loyal county cricket I just think the standard and the quality of 12 Ford A teams and you could say that there's 6 that play minor county stuff name your 12 name your 12 middle sex middle sex are in a bit of trouble aren't they well the usual suspects would be just white ball specialist clubs name your 12 Well, I'll go Leicester Derby.

50:25They're going to struggle. North Ants. So that's the Midlands gone. Half of it. Half of it. Half of it. No cricket in the Midlands. Well, the idea of debate is that not everyone's going to agree with everything that you say. No, this is... 18 counters, it's a huge amount of expense. We have to say that this is a brainstorming meeting. It's not about the expenses. Throw things out. You debate things, throw things out. And what we're looking for is a reaction from people who stick to cricket. What's your reaction? What would you do? This is just a brainstorming, not saying this is what's going to happen.

51:04Yeah. I actually think you need more teams. You guys are so blessed with the best sporting, cricketing infrastructure in the world. You've got all these major counties. You've got minor counties. I think look at India, for instance, Runji Trophy. like so many first-class teams, they split them up into zones. Why don't you introduce more four-day cricket and split it up into zones and, you know... Don't know. You just have to excuse me for a minute. I'm coming back in a minute. Where are you going? The only difference, the biggest difference... I'm going a minute, I'll work my own. There is that you're talking about a population of, what, 70-odd million in England.

51:43Can I just walk off the show? But the amount of them that actually are sort of cricket players is a tiny proportion of that. But how many minor county teams? Yeah, come and sit here. Yeah, there are plenty. Dave's gone. Where's Dave gone? Dave's left. Oh, well, okay. I don't mind there being more avenues, but it shouldn't be professional cricket. Hey, Dave would never have just walked off a TV set, would he? LAUGHTER It's a bit like England's two to Australia. It's got a bit loose. It's just left as well. Welcome, Shishir. Honestly, I think coming here to England, the amount of beautiful grounds there are, the minor county system is such a good quality.

52:28The problem you've got also is that the summer is incredibly short. There's only three months of the year that are worth playing cricket in. You play so much. You can play more cricket. I think for the... He's back. Sorry, I thought you had a job there. Four teams, mate. All right, Dave, that was quick. All right, Dave. Right, for this debate, I think... Number one. Going down the route of getting to 12 count, I think that's going to be... At the minute, we've got... It's a rabbit hole we can't... Yeah, we've got 18 counts. It's going to stay there for a long period of time. So let's... And, you know, two games overseas in March, look, that's a long way down the line.

53:02There's 18 counts, we're starting in April. How's this...? What's that? What's that? What's that? Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. We've got 18 counties, Dave. Mark, Philip. Yeah, fine. You've got the pen. How is our summer going to look? Now, we've got to put April. Rainy with some glimpses of sunshine. So, back in the day, you'd play your 50-over B &H knockout cricket or group and cricket at the beginning of the year. And you don't start the championship until the middle or end of May. Right, OK. So put April.

53:46Put all the months, Phil. Put April. No, no, no. We're going to have to go through the months. Oh, have I? Fundamentally, we've got to look at end of July, August. That is blocked out now. Right, April. Whether we like it or not. Can't do it this time. There's four weeks. No, we're doing a restructure. Oh, right. So we've got a blank whiteboard. So my next thing... Go on. So it involves the Blast and the 100, right? The 100, regardless of whatever people think about it, we are stuck with. That is it because it's financing the game. And your argument whether that should be the case or shouldn't be the case is now void because this is the reality that we have.

54:20So here is how you do it. What you do not need is two short-form competitions that run one after the other. So the Blast has to be incorporated into the 100. I.e. I would have 20 teams playing the Blast. So for that, I'd add Scotland and I'd add Ireland, if you like, or wherever it is. And then you'd have four groups of five. You'd try and keep your derbies together where possible. So in those five groups, that means you've got eight games. You then go into a playoffs thing. After the group side of it is finished, you do the auction because people's performances in the Blast need to be held into account for making big bucks playing in 100.

55:04And the two competitions work together as part of the same thing, as opposed to being this is that and this is that. That way you end up with more days on either side of it, so you're not having to play an entire 14-match group stage of blast cricket and then have the 100 afterwards, which then frees up time to play more championship cricket and the 50-over comp. What you can't have is the way that it is at the moment, where everything, you've got 14 championship games, you've got all of these blast matches and knockouts and finals, you've got 100 as well, you've got, you know, there's too much cricket to cram into a very short space of time, so something has to get smaller.

55:44Yeah. Something has to. Yeah. Are other people talking about this, about itineraries? Because every start of every summer, don't we, this comes up, doesn't it? About for the last 10 years, hasn't it? Oh, itineraries, blah, blah, blah. Well, I'll always go back to Andrew Strauss's high-performance review of this game, which was completely thrown under the bed. It was a high-performance review which would have delivered a very good system. Under the bed or under the bus? Under the bus. Bed, wherever you want to. It's not seen, is it? Can't be. So it has been spoken about, but it's been kind of, we're happy with our system.

56:23We've got to go through the months. So April, we're playing what? Oh, crikey, Mike. they're turning off in droves late late April through to mid-may straight knockout 50 over that's quick 50 over comp april 50 over knockout yeah FA Cup style so no four-day cricket in april no and you can include minor counties in that which we have done previously right get more teams in I'm a lefty. Yeah, it's good that's good. So that goes through to mid-May? Yeah, or before then. It's a quick competition. That's a quick competition. You're playing a game and two days later you're playing another 50 overs. Right, so that's good.

57:06So May, four-day cricket starts. And that's your pipe opening to the season. Right, so pipe opening. Warming up, nice and things. Ice cream cellar, lovely. Oh, lovely. Flake, lovely. And you get a final, probably at Lord's. but you might say the finals at Birmingham. So four-day cricket starts? Four-day cricket starts in May, which goes through to... Mid-May. So May and June, four-day cricket, shall we say? July. May and June, July. July. Early August, finish. Finishes in the first week of August. Right, so it finishes then, OK. Jeez, I've got to play a lot. So when's the hundred and... This is your groups of six, is it?

57:42Yes. So when's the T20 blast and the hundred going to... Well, you come back to Butch's situation. Now, can I just say, is it not that the 100 will eventually, do we think that the 100 will revert back to a T20 competition? Maybe in the future. In the future, I think... We've got all the money. Do we think there will be more teams? We've got eight teams now. Will there be three, four more franchises? I'm sure there will be in the summer set way. in the future. Can I throw in something for the four days for this blast? Yeah. If we started the four days on a Sunday finish on a Wednesday can we have the blast on a Friday night?

58:24Yes. So you're giving the supporters that every Friday night invite it's blast night. So you play your four day and that can start May, June, July. Four day Sunday to Wednesday you have a day to prepare for your Friday and then you have a day to prepare for your Sunday Are you going four groups of five, eight games? I'm lost with how many games but... Phil, how many games do we have? Hang on, this is brainstorming. You've got to say this to the people who are watching. We're brainstorming. I think they're not watching anymore. I think they're having popcorn on there. Can those four Muppets just don't re-go?

58:58It does. Can I come back to Australia where we've been? So we finish a test match day. There's none of this analysis after of going standing on the field. And we go straight to a bash. We go straight from the day of a test match to the bash. and it works. 60 ,000 watching the bash. To be fair, we do that at the moment. Good, good. With the blast following the day of the day. So there's got to be, in my opinion, there's got to be a uniform structure. Now, I'll just bring it forward now. So we're into mid-August and so the 100, to me, so everything else has finished, the 100 is a celebration of everything that's gone on.

59:40Test matches, county championship, 50 over T20 Blast which has culminated in a finals day and from August to early September mid-September is the 100 which is a celebration great money involvement you're going to get the best players and it's a celebration of what we've done in the summer that's it it's sorted sorted I just won a five day final for the longer format of the game like the Sheffield Shea so August that second week of August or first week of August don't forget this is for £20 million pounds right it's a big check so big yeah i mean you're into broadcasting would a broadcaster what come on you're both you're both in it would a broadcaster 20 million pounds you're going to get some great players yeah well would a broadcaster and there are plenty of broadcasters hanging about amazon netflix all them streams that's a big competition well they do it with boxing the lad the boxing like Jake Paul he got a smacking didn't he it's the new world of sport and he got Jake oh God I pay-per-view pay-per-view final oh we're not good no we're not getting many for a four-day final anyway but how's the guitar going let's get on to but she's music

1:01:06the structure of English cricket. Bush, you mentioned cricket from an age of two or three down at the Oval. When was it that music came into your life? Um... Rick, it gets no better. No, it gets no better. What are you doing? Oh, let's have a look at this. Come on. Oh, here we go. This is what we're about. Yeah. Come on, Bush. There you go, Boucher. Done a couple of CDs, the boy. Well, I've got the three albums. Albums. Sorry, albums. Oh, not on the speed board, is it? Not being tuned properly. Well, I can remember going on tour, there was about eight fellas. It was... Crawley, creepy, he had a guitar, Al Malal had a guitar.

1:01:53Wayne Morton. No, but he was... Wayne Morton was the Les Dawson of the guitar. But, no, I just... I started playing when I was about 10, 11, I suppose. Just wanted to learn how to play the guitar, so I just taught myself from there on in. Yeah. My first ever gig was at the Cricketers. The one that you could see from the oval dressing room. Yeah. You could see the Cricketers over there on the... What, the old Cricketers Boozer? Yeah. I've been getting there a couple times. Closed it down. Yeah, that... Nothing to do with us. The Cricketers? Do you know that device you've got in your hand? I'm pretty sure you've used it on commentary.

1:02:32What is he? What's he got? What's it say? Bullseye! LAUGHTER Put it next to the mic. Super smashing, great. I've got£7 here. It's going to take me two minutes to count this out. I'll see you after the break. LAUGHTER Listen to Tony. Oh, I know how the speedboat is it? LAUGHTER What's your spelling question? Spell dog. LAUGHTER LAUGHTER S-pell dog. Fuck it, man. I've been rumbled. Oh, I love it. Go on, back to the music. No, no, what's it to tell? So I started playing gigs, writing songs and all that kind of stuff at age 15, 16. Bands with, you know, mates from school. Yeah, and it kind of always ran concurrently with playing cricket, really.

1:03:20Yeah. And then... So I think when... It's obviously when Ben Hollyoak died in 2002... Yeah. ..and we weren't able to go to the funeral on tour in New Zealand at the time. We weren't able to go to the funeral. And so I wrote a song in sort of his honour called You're Never Gone. And then when we got back, David English sort of came to me and put a band together and I said, you should record the song and we'll set up a, or the money from it will go to the Ben Holyoake Fund that was set up. And so that was my first sort of appearance in a recording studio, professional recording studio. and then it kind of grew it grew from there did you find it did you find it as a bit of a release from the cricket a little bit to concentrate on that you know yeah it's just it's something that something you can do by yourself yeah I never took sort of guitars and stuff away on on tour to to be the court jester you know to be down in there I would sit in my room and write songs or just you know play along with records and stuff like that it wasn't it wasn't for a performance point of but it was that, it was just keep you out of the pub, basically.

1:04:31LAUGHTER Whether it was successful or not, I'll leave that to you. I can remember us all going... I think it was in Budway or something. Everybody had... It was like a mariachi band going to the ground. Everyone was going... LAUGHTER Six of them brought it all strung. There were two songs that you used to play. One, I Get Knocked Down... No, that wasn't me, that was Wayne. Yeah, and the other one, Sit Down, Sit Down. Oh, Sit Down, James, yeah, good shoot. That was Wayne also. Oh, was he? Oh, right. But Creeper used to go. John Crawley used to go. He used to play the Smiths, John Crawley. But it was literally guitars instead of golf back in the day.

1:05:13There you go, guitars instead of golf. Yeah. That's what the England side need. Yeah. Get a bit of strumming. There's always been that release, hasn't there? Oh, shit. It might improve it. Didn't he take dartboards? Yeah, Steve Armisen. Some of you, Alistair Gutt. Why does that stand up? Armis coming on the show soon. He actually went all the way to New Zealand playing a test series. And the night before the first four-day game, knocked on my door. And he said, Skip, is it all right if I borrow your pads tomorrow? I said, what do you mean? He said, well, you're Gundamore, I'm Gundamore. He said, similar size.

1:05:49I said, what do you mean? I said, use your own pads. He went, I forgot them. I said, let me put something straight. I said, so you've travelled from England all the way on that flight, which has taken 28 hours, and you've carried what through the airport but not your pads? He went to my dartboard. He took his dartboard but not his pads. He was a good player, Steve. You've got to take the pads with him. Cook was good, wasn't he? Jimmy Anderson. Jimmy Anderson. We never had a hobby. Oh, you did. Well, yeah, but not that thought. Yeah. What hobby? I think you've got to have a hobby. You've got to switch off.

1:06:26You like golf, don't you? Yeah, golf. Paddle tennis. Fishing. Love fishing. Fishing's a challenge. Reading. It's not a sport. It's not a sport, isn't it? No. I thought fishing was a sport. It's a pastime. Are you sure? Yeah, it's a hobby. Angle is the biggest sport in the country. I thought fishing was a sport. They play comps, don't they? Yeah, there's competitions, of course, but there's nothing better than... I mean, it's not a sport, is it? It's a pastime. Even you, I go into the Dales and stand in the River Wharf. You can't get any better than that. What, without a fishing rod? Just stand there.

1:07:05Just stand there. Oh, I love it. This is great. I'm freezing my balance off. I'm frozen on snow. Bumbles at it again. Bumbles at it again, standing in the river. Can you please get that fella out of the river? He's here again. He's back. Averton, he'll ring me up if there's a Headingley Test match and he'll say, right, I've booked on the River Ewer, which is a salmon river. Salmon. Right. Coming up the Ewer. Never caught one. Bolton Estate. He caught two last year. Did he? Yeah. Yeah. Catch and release. Yeah. Stick to Cricket is brought to you by Betfair. We've got to bring this show to an end.

1:07:47Butch we've got a few community questions. Go on go on We'll start with this one name your top three bands of all time Jeez, okay. Well the Beatles. Oh, yeah lovely Not the storms and I do great man, but they wouldn't be in my top three shit I think you go good question. Cheeky girls are fuzz banging.

1:08:16Top three bands. Yeah. I hadn't really thought about it. Springsteen? I used to love Free. I still love Free. Free? All right now. Yeah, that's the one people know them for. Yeah. They were a great band back in the day. Who were they? Who were they? Okay, so Paul Rogers, Paul Kossoff, Andy Fraser, Simon Kirk. Paul Kossoff must have been the son of David Kossoff. I'll bet he was David Kossoff's son. David Kossoff was on telly all the time. David Kossoff. K-O-S-S-O-F. I'll bet that's David Kossoff's son. Right. Kossoff. Oasis? Pink Floyd. T-Rex. C-Rex. One Direction. Yes. Take that. Great documentary on Netflix about that, by the way.

1:09:11That was great. There's too many. Too many. Too many. Hang on. No, do it another way. Guitarists. B.B. King. Yeah. Stitch. No, what's his name? Stitch. Slash. Slash. Talking of that, I'm bursting. Oh, love it, love it. Anyway, go on, next question. Right, let's go with this one. Who do you think will be the breakthrough England test player this year and who could make a surprise comeback? Ooh. Comeback. Breakthrough England test player. Well, it's kind of Bethel, isn't it? Although you'd say that he's already broken through. Well, not... No, not necessarily. I mean, somebody like... Somebody like...

1:10:03Somebody like a Dom Sibley or Haseep Amid could make a surprise comeback. Good show. There's definitely a place for, with all the stroke makers and stuff that England have, there's definitely a place for having some players who balance that out by being stickable. So perhaps one of those two. They're both better players than when they played. Better players than when they played, yeah. And then I suppose Thomas Rue is the one who's making all the headlines at the moment for his show with the under-19s and all the rest of it. His brother is already on the radar, but reports have it that Thomas is better, even better than him.

1:10:39So maybe him. But at the moment England have got a lot of, there's a lot of players in and around that group who are pretty good, you know. So it's gonna be a difficult one for new players to break into. It just depends really on how much England decide to change tack or whether they stick with the you know the pedal to the metal style that they've gone with I my feeling is if they do if they do that then and things don't go well albeit that you know you'd expect to beat New Zealand and Pakistan at home then then changes might be a foot from the very top which then opens up the door to players who perhaps have been overlooked over the last two or three years the talents there that no to tell us yeah there is a go at You know, I think one of the things that perhaps if you look back on this era, the post-Joe Root captaincy era and whatever, is that you might look at it and go, the door's been closed on too many people for too long.

1:11:45and that whilst England have been doing what they've been doing over the last two and a half years, there's a lot of really, really good cricketers knocking around in the county game who perhaps, I don't think, they wouldn't have given up hope because I think, you know, whenever management changes in any walk of life, you know, people get different opportunities or whatever, but who are kind of feeling a little bit shut out of the whole thing or have done for a little while. But during that period of time, there's a lot of players who look like they've got the stuff that might see them through at a higher level.

1:12:18Ink Street is not in a bad spot. I mean, everything's doom and gloom. It always is after you lose the ashes, but, you know, there are a lot of... There are as many very, very good players knocking around out there as any time that I can remember in the last 25, 30. I totally agree. Butch, can I give you a challenge with your guitar? Dave, you've got to think of a song that you're going to sing and Butch has got to try and play it. and you're going to sing this out Dave. Not singing again. These lads want to go on. Look, we've never had a guitar, we've never had an instrument. We've only ever had you.

1:12:49On the football we had Schmeichel play. Now, if you can think of a song that you know... Fulsome Prison Blues. Do you know that one? Did he have his gold? No, I don't. That's cracking.

1:13:03That's Storms, that is. That's Rolling Storms. Oh, good. That's perfect. What are you singing? What's your go-to, Pam? Sweet Caroline or Folsom Prison Blues. Can you hear me knocking? Can you hear me knocking? That's it. Go on, you sing this. Are you asking me to sing that? He's a bloody professional here. We'll be the backing singers over this side.

1:13:29It's awful. Yeah. No, don't do it. Don't do it. I'll do it. That's it. Marvellous. Lovely. What up, Boosh? Can you hear me knocking? That was brilliant. That was Keith Richards. Hey, lads, just quickly. We didn't really write much down. No, you're fine. Everyone's going to skip that bit anyway. September off. They're all going to skip that bit anyhow. September off. Just book off.

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