Arsenal's UCL Dream, United’s Carrick Dilemma & Wrighty’s 115 Demand | Stick to Football EP 128

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0:08Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, Senior Sports Editor from The Guardian. And whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, reporters on the ground with all the big teams, and the legendary Football Weekly podcast, The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.

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1:43Gary Neville: I feel like everyone's late today. What's happened? They're not. You're just early. It's the quarter to. I know, starting time. What time are we starting? We usually start at 10, but they know in there now that they can come in, so they're probably just talking about crisps outside. All right, favourite crisps. No, it's OK, Ben, you can take your time. Favourite crisps, what was it? Disco, sort of the discos. That's what I went with first. But I went pickled onion monster munch. Pickled onion monster munch. From my childhood. But it's not as good now as it used to be. No, I know, but in your childhood, pickled onion monster munch.

2:19Gary Neville: Yeah, they were... Like, I mean, seriously.

2:21Roy Keane: Are you talking about crisps?

2:23Gary Neville: What crisps did you say?

2:24Roy Keane: I went for cheese and onion discos.

2:26Gary Neville: Oh, no. No, not cheese and onion discos. What did you pick? No. Roy, Gary, what did you go for? New top. What crisps did you go for? Hula hoops. Hula hoops, what crisps did you go for? I watched prom cocktail skips.

2:42Paul Scholes: Yeah, I like all them as well.

2:43Gary Neville: Okay, I went for discos, salt and vinegar discos.

2:45Paul Scholes: Yeah, they're nice. And pickled onion monster munchies. Yeah, yeah. Oh, roast beef, monster munch.

2:49Ian Wright: Roast beef, yeah.

2:51Roy Keane: Not pickled chicken.

2:52Ian Wright: You are what you eat. I remember when prawn cocktail came out. Flaming hot. Monster munch, monster munch. Unbelievable.

2:58Roy Keane: I don't like prawn cocktail, Chris. I love prawn cocktail.

3:00Gary Neville: What prawn cocktail? Seabrook. No, which ones? The crinkly ones.

3:05Ian Wright: They have to be Seabrooks. What's Seabrooks? I don't even know what Seabrooks are. Just like, was it Walker's? Or it was before? No, Seabrooks are far better than... No, they're not, Gary. Not just prawn cocktails, what I had before. He's got a new look, I feel a bit naked, I feel a bit like...

3:20Roy Keane: I know, I was staring at him this morning, he was like, stop looking at my clip.

3:24Ian Wright: Yeah, but, Garry, if you're going to wear something that's showing that...

3:27Gary Neville: A chunky jumper, a new watch. No, this watch is not new. This is my Norcane one. But there's a vibe. Am I right? I like it. Gary.

3:35Paul Scholes: Country, you've been to the Coswolds for the weekend. He's giving it Rich Farmer. He's been doing Honey with Bex or something. You've definitely got that countryside vibe. Honey with Bex. You have. You went for lunch and you had that cheese for starters. We just plant seeds and just do honey and stuff.

3:52Roy Keane: He smells amazing as well. Smell them.

3:55Paul Scholes: A fondue. A fondue. Yeah, you'd have bit of that, didn't you? Oh, he does smell nice. He's got new aftershave. Yeah. What's going on?

4:01Ian Wright: Is everything OK? Because you've really guessed. You've shown some shoes, you've cashed in some shoes. I love them. You've seen them as plush. Are they blue?

4:08Paul Scholes: No, black.

4:10Ian Wright: You definitely need them. What's it? If they were blue, they'd be better blue. Thank you. Let me see him. These are nice. Nice shape on you. Ralph Lauren.

4:18Gary Neville: Ralph Lauren, yeah.

4:19Ian Wright: Hey, I like your style, girl.

4:21Paul Scholes: You've got a stylist. He's got a stylist. I've not got a stylist. You and Rydy are a stylist. Everyone praises Rydy for his gear, but he's got a stylist. Walk that one out. Jess Stebbins, the greatest.

4:31Gary Neville: Do you know something, Rydy? Do you agree with this? Roy tries hard, but makes it look like he's not trying hard. Yes, exactly.

4:36Roy Keane: Have you noticed he's got shoes on? Like, popper shoes?

4:39Gary Neville: We should buy it, yeah. Popper shoes. Right, before we start, a little bit of self-promotion. Go on then. I went in Dragon's Den a year ago and there was a product that I invested in with Peter Jones and Tuca Suleman. It's a golf product. And I'm going to invite the guy on to show you it right in. I know you're big golfers. Roy, can you... Roy's not here for the golf. I'm so excited. Ben, in you come, Ben.

5:07Roy Keane: I like golf. Meet Ben. Hi, Ben. What about the cacao man? It's not the cacao man. We'll do the cacao next week. Hi, Pete. Wow.

5:17Ian Wright: This is swish. If you want one, we can get you one. Is that portable golf ball?

5:22Roy Keane: Something to clean your balls?

5:26Ian Wright: Yes, the portable golf ball.

5:28Gary Neville: Ben, demonstrate how it works, Ben. One second, this is how it works. So you pre-wet it. And then you just put it in and swish it round. Right, clean your golf ball. Take it off your bag. It comes out clean. You get a towel with it as well.

5:44Roy Keane: That is cool. There you go. That is really cool. Is that important?

5:48Paul Scholes: Yes! No, no it is. Your ball has to be clean all the time. Sometimes you have to wait for the ball. You have to go to the ball clean. Clean.

5:55Roy Keane: There you go. A little bit of water. Demo. The ball's already clean though. Yeah, I know, but we'll just pretend it's not. Oh, also we just dropped this as well.

6:05Gary Neville: A little brush. Oh, I've got one of these as well. Oh, that is actually really good. Peter invested and then he bought the American Golf discount score, didn't he? The whole store, yeah. The whole thing. Now it's being sold in there. Brilliant.

6:24Ian Wright: He liked it so much he bought the whole company. Just for this.

6:27Paul Scholes: So he could put a stock swish.

6:29Roy Keane: How much is this?

6:30Paul Scholes: £24.

6:31Roy Keane: Oh, that's a good price. It's really good.

6:33Paul Scholes: And how much does it cost for you to make it? LAUGHTER That's how you're laying. Ben, well done. Thank you.

6:41Ian Wright: Well done. Tech A's doing well then. You know what, with that girl, again, because you've got your towel... That's a simple thing. Don't let me forget that. So pleased. I won't.

6:51Gary Neville: Jill, you went to Miami to the Grand Prix. Yes, just got back yesterday.

6:55Roy Keane: Look, I've got a little car on my top today.

6:58Gary Neville: I love it, Jill.

6:59Roy Keane: No, it was really good. I think it's just you changed the tyre before, didn't you?

7:04Gary Neville: I did, yeah, I did like a, well, Roy said I didn't, but I meant his girl when you said a tyre.

7:10Roy Keane: No, but when you're in the garage and you see all the commotion, like we got to go down just before they went out for the race, like the sprint race. And seeing all the people working on the car and then all the people like, there's just so many people involved in that one. How many people did you think there'd be like two?

7:30Paul Scholes: There's probably been loads of people, isn't there?

7:32Roy Keane: No, but then there's loads of people back home, like hundreds, like tuning in. And I think all that pressure on the driver, I love just seeing how it all worked. And then the pit stops, it's just like, like two seconds. It is incredible. It is very exciting. I had such a good time, like really good time. It's not blocking you. Yeah, but I was saying there was loads of commotion at one point. And I think that was, I was getting a coffee and I was in the queue and I was like, I'll go and see what's happening. And I think it was because Messi arrived. but there was just people from everywhere coming to take a picture.

8:04He was the most famous person you saw?

8:06Roy Keane: It was... I didn't really see loads of... Well, I didn't see him because he's quite small. But there was so many people there, but I think he was probably the most famous person there. I thought Beckham might have been there. Did you have a picture of him? No, no, no. I didn't really want to. Would you want one? Put them in your arm. That's what I picked you up. No, I think I walked past a few of the drivers. They go around on scooters because I think they're trying to save their legs. and I did a hot lap. The legs for what? Well, for the race. Like, go stuff. Yes, I forgot about it. It's automatic.

8:40Not automatic, no?

8:41Roy Keane: I don't know, is it?

8:42Ian Wright: Of course it's not automatic. We could do it if it's all mate.

8:46Roy Keane: Do you think they've got gears? Of course they've got gears. It's amazing. Boom, boom. Are you winding us across? No, I didn't know. I don't fucking know. No, but it was good. It was really good.

8:56Gary Neville: Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. You know what was the thing? It was Pep's eyes. Just like a look on his face of, I can't believe what I've seen. It's not like five or six. It's 115.

9:09Roy Keane: I've been in games like that where you can stop someone from winning the title and it's a good feeling if you can do it.

9:15Gary Neville: I actually supported it in the end because obviously one, he got over the line. I don't think that made a difference. Oh my God. You said this last week. Brentford was still getting chances.

9:22Paul Scholes: That's a good sign for Arsenal that people are disliking him. They're actually starting to dislike you because they're thinking, you're going places now. Jurgen Klopp got given five years because they loved his football. But he was started competing in club competition. Exactly. And you knew Liverpool were coming.

9:35Ian Wright: Yeah. Can United afford to wait to be a club that are coming? Don't let the celebration police, led by Wayne Rooney, say to you, don't enjoy this moment because football is moments.

9:46Gary Neville: I was 100 % Michael should not get the job before he was appointed. I was 100 % when he was appointed. So what are you now? Because you're still not really serving. I am 50-50 right now. Oh, f***ing hell.

10:02Gary Neville: Righty, we have had a yo-yo this season with you on Arsenal. We've been up, we've been down, we've been up, we've been down. I'm a fan, that's right. And righty, they're on the brink. They're on the brink. Unbeaten in the Champions League. They're on the brink. I mean, not just actually, in what a couple of days it's been.

10:19Ian Wright: You know, watching that City game in Everton, but watching City against Burnley and the chances, I was thinking, there's something. You know when people say, no, City won't go, City will still drop points. I was thinking, well, where? Where? I didn't see them dropping. Because you see the win against Burnley, in their eyes, it's probably a poor result for them in respects of the goals that they should have scored. And then Everton, without Rodri, you just feel that there's, without Rodri, there's no game management. It was just so... Oh, no, he's not. You know, watching the game, even when it was 1-0, and obviously the individual's goals were magnificent, It just felt like they weren't managing the game.

10:59Ian Wright: They were getting at them and getting at them. They should have scored at least two more for him. They could have scored for him. I was thinking, well, maybe it isn't. That's the big encouragement for Arsenal, not just the fact they lost the trip just without it. It all came from. I don't know, for 15 minutes. Gay is my state, won't it? You look shaky, didn't the first half.

11:18Roy Keane: I think City were going for goals or one. I think they thought, let's get a few goals. The golf ball just fell out.

11:26Ian Wright: City were going for it, but again, it comes down to, remember I'm saying, by any means necessary, you get the job done. And they've done that at Burnley, even though they disappointed, didn't score more goals. But that Everton game, at some stage, surely, Roy, you know, guys, and you, Joe, everybody will know that. You've got to think, you know, we're kind of shaky. Let's just drop in and let's just make it difficult. And if we have to win 1-0, that didn't happen. They were still going. Still might be a big point, you know.

11:51Roy Keane: Yeah.

11:51Ian Wright: Yeah, exactly. Exactly, but the thing, it should have been three. I know it should have been, but I'm just saying, at the end of it... You know what was well, right? At the start of that game, though, Scosie, I would have taken the draw because I'm thinking City. Oh, yeah, of course you would. You're in the driving seat. It's only disappointing because they were so... Three went up. No, it's still a great idea. You know what I mean? Honestly, it was a magnificent result.

12:14Roy Keane: And the driving seat, man.

12:15Ian Wright: Oh, it's brilliant.

12:16Roy Keane: What a goal, though. I still think the Palace game is a hard game, you know? I think people are dismissing that game. Tough place to go. But if they get to that final... But Glasner's last game as well, probably. It's not an easy place to go.

12:28Paul Scholes: What if you gave that to Arsenal this after the season? Oh, yeah, you took it all day long, of course. Any game, last game.

12:33Gary Neville: Right, to you a couple of weeks ago, you said it hurts. It's a pain that's hurting me, it's like killing me.

12:37Ian Wright: It's a pain that's hurting me that I can't feel. But I can't feel it.

12:39Gary Neville: That's what I said. Give me two minutes. I've invested so much into the manager, into this team, to the players, to everything. I didn't do that sneaky everything. They have got to a place again where you just see it all falling away. You're seeing players making mistakes, it's falling away. And now, two weeks later... It's come back. It's incredible, eh?

13:00Ian Wright: The thing is that, again, it comes back down to the three seasons of happening at this stage and then you're feeling, is this happening again? And... We told you. Stay calm. Let me keep the fear... The thing is that, again, I was staying calm, but from the fan point of view, You just don't want it to happen for everybody again. You just don't want us to fall away again. So you're starting to get those feelings. But then I said, the Manchester City game, the chances we created. Can you give me something so I can say I've got something to hold on to? And it was the Man City game, the chances we created.

13:34Saka's the man, isn't it?

13:36Gary Neville: Roy, you said, it's not falling away yet. This was on the back of you saying it's falling away. Roy said, it's not falling away yet. They're top of the table, they're nervous, they look edgy, but they have to get through that. did you think it was going to be playing sailing? They've been nervous for six months. You had more faith, Roy. Absolutely.

13:53Paul Scholes: You've got a brilliant squad and they've not been getting the credit they deserve. Even the last few years when they've slipped up, at least they've been getting themselves in that position. They've had to learn the hard way. But as we know in sport, you have to lose to win. So them losses the last few years were definitely a good experience to learn from. I know they've got over. Even the last few years we've been critical of Arsenal, the way they've slipped up, physically not strong enough, mentally weak, blah, blah, blah. I know even this year they're getting criticised for the way they're playing, but they're doing the job.

14:21Paul Scholes: They're getting the job done. Even the last few games, the European games, people are... Every angle, people look at Arsenal's, they're kind of negative way. They've got the easy side to draw. They still have to get through it. The last four games in Europe, they conceded one goal, and that was a penalty. The Fulham game was a big one for them. Fulham were desperate in the first half, but they got a bit of swagger back in, a sack of players coming back into it, you're going, right. And they've definitely obviously got that momentum back in. And they would have been encouraged even after the City game.

14:46Paul Scholes: I know it's about getting points, but they would have said we did create chances. And look at the players come off the bench. Their squad is fantastic. They've been brilliant in Europe and it's about time people start to give a national credit.

14:56Ian Wright: But the thing is, Gary, you say lost faith. I didn't lose faith. You have doubts and coming off of the back of what's happening. But then, like I said, I just need them to give me something. And they gave it to me. But we talk about doubts. We had Rory McIlroy in here. Yes.

15:07Paul Scholes: We'll go down with that. He said the amount of times he's got real doubts in his mind and his head's gone. He's meant to be. And that's the guy who's winning, again, a major tournament. So if a team like Arsenal are going to have doubts, doubts is part of the sport. It does take teams some years to get there, doesn't it? It does. Not everyone, you don't. All of a sudden, like Leicester did, not many people do that. Look at Liverpool, look at City, you felt them coming. But even in other sports schools, you were at the snooker, you see these snooker lads? It's a battle, it's a battle for these lads to pot a ball that they do with their eyes closed.

15:37Paul Scholes: It's different challenges in sport. That was unbelievable.

15:39Ian Wright: Some of it was fantastic, absolutely brilliant. What a great final. Yeah, it was brilliant. It was a great tournament. You know what, the game before that were good. I watched literally, I nearly watched a magnificent tournament of elite players. We're saying to be there though. It's brilliant. Have you been Crucible? It's amazing. It's good, isn't it? I went last week, brilliant.

15:57Gary Neville: I love this time of the year just generally. I mean obviously the Masters seems to sort of kick it off and then you've got obviously the football, the Champions League, you've got the Premier League running, you've got obviously Snook, you've got all these things happening in this period. And also, just, Jill, I'll ask you. League 2 playoffs, you forgot about. League 2 playoffs. On Monday night, Jill, you know what was the thing? It was Pep's eyes.

16:16Roy Keane: Yeah, yeah.

16:18Gary Neville: Pep's eyes when his team went 3-1 down on the bench. Was there a resignation in them? No, it was like he was startled. You've seen Pep just like that, wasn't it? Just like a look on his face of, I can't believe what I've seen. Someone obviously that greatness and that sort of experience.

16:32Roy Keane: I think the comeback, though, I think that still shows signs of encouragement. I think a score straight from kick-off like they did. I was literally on the flight and I had it on my phone and it was like we are about to like leave and I'm watching and then I'm like there's 10 seconds left and then Doku does that but even the way I think he's been brilliant by the way but I thought he was going to hit it and then he takes another touch doesn't he just to open up the angle a little bit more but I still think there's hope for City I think with that kind of last kick of the game if Arsenal go to West Ham maybe and then I was saying before even though it could be when they get to Crystal Palace.

17:12Roy Keane: I think Palace have been in games like that where you can stop someone from winning the title and it's a good feeling if you can do it. But we'll see. What about the pass for Haarlem's goal? Yeah. Nobody really mentioned it, have you? Kovacic.

17:25Paul Scholes: What? It was a good pass. But they've got a stronger squad than Arsenal. But when City are missing one or two, you can tell. Arsenal definitely for the better squad.

17:35Ian Wright: Right. Honestly, I'm not going deep, but when you spend that much money and you lose one player and it all falls that's something wrong with that you know what I mean that shouldn't be happening because like but that player

17:47Roy Keane: is so important like in that system it's crazy how important that player is and if I ask the lost

17:53Gary Neville: Declan Rice they'd be in a similar position I think yeah but I think

17:56Roy Keane: the way City play it's that player honestly you don't want to take out

18:00Paul Scholes: anyone but and what he gives them as well you aren't even a goal they give away a goal from set pieces for all is brilliant he gives you that physicality so whatever even if he's having a bad day you looked on the spine of your team and he stood there he's a big strong

18:12Roy Keane: boy in there

18:12Paul Scholes: and he stops a lot of them balls going through just by his presence just by people going I'm not even going to try that pass I'm going to go sideways and backwards

18:19Roy Keane: yeah we have to give credit Everton though I thought second half to come out and do what they did like from the first half to the second half I think you have to give credit to them

18:29Gary Neville: Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing we'll come on to the West Ham game because I think it's obviously a big game on Sunday but Scorzi you've been the most critical I think of Arsenal over this last month or two you've been

18:42Ian Wright: to be fair

18:44Gary Neville: you have been quite cutting and brutal at times where you've said I just think Arsenal are gone and all the momentum is with City at some point you've got to beat your rivals to it yeah answer to that scores and then I think recently sure that was me yeah this week this is this week which is quite surprising honestly if Arsenal win the league at this point it won't feel like they were the best team it'll feel like the rest of the league has been awful I'll win this week

19:08Ian Wright: Where was I when he was writing it? That was about two weeks ago. Okay. I do stand back. A lot of it. Look, they've not been... I just don't think they're the best of champions that we'll ever see. I don't think we'll talk about this team in years to come. Do you know what I mean? Like, great Arsenal team you spoke of. Great United teams. Yeah, but Arsenal fans will because, like, what they're doing is... It could be on purpose. Yeah, look, I've had a little bit of a rethink. Like I said before, it ticks. people are calling them bottlers for the last two years, but it takes a bit of time to get there.

19:42Do you know what I mean? Like I said, I remember when City were coming, I always remember you saying City are coming, City are coming. When they're finishing second, third, fourth in the league, I just, I always think, they don't always have to beat the top teams, do you? They've not beat City, they've not beat Liverpool. These have been the best teams for the last four, five, six years, and that's why I don't think I think teams will speak about him, about being a great team. Now look, I know you can get away with not winning those games, of course you can, but I think to be a great team, you've got to go and beat these teams.

20:15Paul Scholes: But that might come in the next few years, I think. Yeah, there's every chance here, don't we? I think that will propel him to be a great team. Well, my biggest challenge for Arsenal obviously to get over the line when they win the league, the challenge will be hard, but it's what to do afterwards, it's what they do next. It's what they do in the next two or three years. I think they have a squad to keep going. Well, I'm talking about the issue where they're going to win the league.

20:33Ian Wright: They want to beat City. They want to beat Liverpool. You know how you beat them? Yeah, but at the start of the season, the way Arsenal started, I think it was after, I think it would have been 45 minutes, Gary saying, it's over. Arsenal are going to do it. You know what I mean? It was like we were playing so well. No one talks about that stage of the season where Arsenal were dominating, whether it was defensive midfield, scoring goals, doing everything. Once they got to the place where you know that Arsenal, then all the criticism comes. Then all of a sudden the manager. What's he doing with all the gimmicks?

21:02Ian Wright: Yeah. You know, everything. Oh, this player. Oh, this one's injured. He's not fit. He's not fit. Is he going to do it? You know, all that stuff's happening. And that all happened. I know. That all happened at a time where Arsenal's starting to try and get it done when people are calling Arsenal bottlers.

21:16Paul Scholes: But it's not about being popular, is it? You know, if you're a team, you're in the Arsenal camp and everyone's going. And they're not as nice on the eye to watch as a man said. They're not. But they have to do it their way. And if you look at the table, look at the wins. Look at the goals for our game. You're like, do you know what? There has to be a thumbs up for them to that. It has to be. It doesn't matter how you do it, does it? Absolutely. If we were playing in a team and you weren't playing great, but you wouldn't be... But even their goals for Scalzi. Who'd care? And I know it's set-piece, but their goals for...

21:40Paul Scholes: I think there's only two behind City. It's not as if they're 20 behind them. Defensively, of course, they're brilliant. We've done Liverpool and United the weekend, and we're criticising the defensive side of the game. But Arsenal, the last few games, were rock solid. We go back to Liverpool teams, you've got to be decent at the back, that's your start, and that's what Arsenal are. So you've got to give them credit. The table and the wins, goals, fire and the squad they have. The squad they've built over the last three or four years and their recruitment in the summer was the final piece. A couple of players came in, a bit of physicality, someone with a bit of brilliance and they deserve everything they get.

22:15Paul Scholes: They deserve everything they get. My point was I don't enjoy watching it. They're not a team that I think, fucking hell, brilliant team. Where I've sat back over the years and even Liverpool last year, or on the Jurgen Klopp, you're about to fucking hell, what a good team. I just don't see that with Arsenal. That's the only thing. You can win it all different ways, of course you can. It doesn't matter how you win it. I'm just trying to say it.

22:38Roy Keane: They're not a team I'd turn on and watch all the time.

22:41Ian Wright: That's fine.

22:42Roy Keane: I did enjoy watching them against Adelaide. It's fine, of course, it's fine.

22:45Ian Wright: You do it in your own special way. You've got to remember as well, we're chasing down, we're chasing down, Liverpool, you've got to get credit as well, we're chasing down the City side that we're still talking about charges with them. We're still talking about things, what you've got. Have they got to this? Have they done that? And still no outcome. This is the teams we're asking.

23:03Gary Neville: On the charges you're talking about?

23:04Ian Wright: Yeah, with everything. We still don't know what's going on. And we're chasing down that team. That's the team we're chasing down. We can't talk about it. People probably sort of mention it now.

23:13Gary Neville: Just stop there a minute. Why do you feel... No, I agree with you. I think it's a shame. When I say shame, I don't mean shame as in awe. I mean, I think it's a shame on the game. Absolutely, yeah. That this hasn't been resolved yet. Yeah. But what makes you feel important to mention that today in terms of the charges?

23:29Ian Wright: Because there's bearing on the amount of monies, the way they're able to get the players, the way they're able to buy these great players. Listen, what's it, Semenyo and Gayi, what came to the window?

23:42Gary Neville: I think the charges related to years ago, didn't they?

23:44Ian Wright: Yeah, but the thing is, it's still the way it's been constructed. You know, Arsenal can't construct their team like our city have constructed their team and pay what they pay to get these players and be able to get those players. for whatever reason, whether it's from the Etihad, oh, we've got a company over there, we're sponsoring the team. All that sort of stuff. We're sponsoring the team for 50 million. I don't know how they get their money, but they're able to get these players, quality players. It does feel wrong that they're allowed to spend 100 million. I'm going around it a long way, but what I'm trying to say is, we're chasing down a team that I've got carte blanche to do what they're doing, and there's 115 charges.

24:19Ian Wright: We can't say anything about it, and it's still not resolved. All I'm saying is that we have to fight against that.

24:24Paul Scholes: Yeah, but the only thing Arsenal have to do is keep their side of the street clean. Yeah. And that's what I'm proud of. Yeah, exactly.

24:29Ian Wright: That's what I'm proud of because obviously, you know, I talk nothing but respect for Scholes in these opinions. Of course it is. But the fact that City are being able to buy players to play a kind of football, entertaining great football. We've had to construct a team to try and not only beat them, but to beat them in the only way we can. I'd love us to play great football. I'm Kevin Keegan. I'd love it if we beat them. I would love us to.

24:51Paul Scholes: But this is the hand we're dealt with. Arsenal criticised for the last few years for being a bit weak physically and mentally. And now they're doing that side of it and people still aren't happy. You're never going to be happy. You're not there to please everybody. You're not there to be popular. You're going to have to win.

25:02Gary Neville: But City haven't... I mean, look, it'll come out in the wash at some point. Well, let's hope so, girl. And it's a disgrace it's taken so long. It's absolutely shocking that, to be fair, and look, in the meantime, I know they're very different cases, but Everton and Forest, other clubs have obviously been punished. Been done. You know, but they could get off every single charge. They could. I know you've been quiet there, but they could. You know... Really?

25:24Ian Wright: They could get off with... Really? Well, I don't know. So if they get off with every single child, we're going to go, oh, God, that was... Can't believe that happened. But anyway, let's get on with it. It's not like five or six. It's 115. I feel like people... Everybody's like Trump here. No-one's listening.

25:43Gary Neville: You feel like Trump or you feel like...

25:45Ian Wright: I feel like... No, I feel like you're Trump.

25:46Gary Neville: and, like, you're saying stuff and it's foolishness. No, but my point is, look, I'm with your righty in the sense that, to be fair, to have 115 serious allegations put against you and it not be brought forward is ridiculous. It's a shocker. And then you're saying that they could get away with it. No, but my point is, what I'm saying to you is that that all very important sort of what will be principle in this country of innocent until proven guilty, I think my view would be that we haven't found the level of guilt yet or we haven't found any guilt yet. So my point is, right now, and those charges I think relate to I think I'm not exactly sure relate to I think pre-2020 but what you're saying is that the actual foundations of this team were built

26:23Ian Wright: in that period so players are signing because they're coming because of the success that they've had before they want to have that success and that's what's been built with what they've done you know what if they can prove everything and it's fine and it's brilliant I can tell you but I'm not going to sit here watching my club struggle and strife and trying to beat this team that's up there like Goliath and with everything what's going on and they're getting close and people hammering us. You're not struggling, are you? Top of the league. Yeah, but like, what it's taken to get there? What it's taken to stay there?

26:52Gary Neville: But you're right, right. In some ways, what I would say is that the reason Arsenal are getting a hard time, I think, is two things. One, they've not won anything yet, so they've not proven they can win. And secondly, I think there is a style, to be fair point, which someone like Scholesy makes far more strongly than I do, or maybe Roy does, or Jill wants. Than anyone, really. Is I too fair? I'm actually happy for a return to physical football and a bit more of sort of like a different style. The way in which football was developing three or four years ago where I was watching teams come up from the Championship playing this football in the six-yard box and it's just embarrassing.

27:21Gary Neville: I was like, I was falling out of love with it. What's still going on now? No, but I think Sunderland and Leeds this year have come up. Right, and to be fair, forget Burnley for one second. Sunderland and Leeds have come up this year. They've played a different level of football and different style of football. And to be fair... And they've adapted. They've adapted physically. Physically they've adapted. They brought physical players, haven't they? I mean, Leeds brought, I think, like eight players over six foot, one or something.

27:40Roy Keane: I think the watch teams come up and struggle like Southampton and thought we can't do it that way because else we're just going to go straight back down.

27:48Gary Neville: I think City do get it.

27:49Paul Scholes: But you can have different styles. People look critical of Arsenal. You can't all be like Pep's teams. No, I agree. They praised Klopp's teams years ago, particularly when he was at Dortmund counter-attack. There's different ways to win football. And Arsenal have found a way for them. And that deserves it. Because if he kept trying to copy Pep, and remember Arteta worked with Pep, So you might think he might try and go that way. We can't beat them at their style of football. They've found a different way. And that deserves a part of the trip.

28:15Roy Keane: There's still elements of it though. You watch them build them from the back. I think Arsenal weeks ago were still trying to play that way. Just a little bit too much.

28:24Gary Neville: And that was a big criticism. They were all playing around the back. I thought they were brilliant last night when they started getting it forward into Jocheres. Thank you. There was a ball down the side from Crossard. There was then one playing into that channel. I just thought Joe something. The goal. The ball don't shine.

28:37Ian Wright: There was something different. Somebody's been working with him, absolutely, from the start of the season to now, because there's things when I'm watching it, and like I was saying in the group, there's certain times where the ball bounces and the defender's... At first, he was up there, he was already there. The defender was able to move him and head it. Now he's waiting that fraction of second, right in and then, bam, you get in, then you get in. The defender gets a little bit off balance, then you lay it off. He'd done it so well last night. That's when you were saying, Gal, we've got to be careful about playing out in the group.

29:05Ian Wright: And I said, if we can get it up there and he can hold it back. And I think that's what we've been asking for. We've seen Raya in the centre-half just playing, playing. It's been boring. Now, you're saying last night they were better, and they probably were better, because they are being a bit more direct. And he can do that, Jokeres.

29:19Gary Neville: After 15 minutes, Riety, I just thought they maybe just falls into the trap of doing that. But they did start pretty quickly after that to start playing it falling into Jokeres. And I thought, OK, once they started doing that, they had to do that.

29:29Ian Wright: There's work being done. They're the cover disappointing, I wonder. I thought so. Yeah,

29:35Gary Neville: the quality. Trish, he pays nothing. Just going back to the City-Arsenal argument, I think the reason that people, to be fair, are not critical of City in a title race with Arsenal is because of the credit that Pep and that team have built up. They're five, six times champions, some of those players. So when you've built that sort of level of credit, it's a bit like when Klopp won the league a couple of times and then they fall off. You do build up a credit when you've won, and you've won trebles, and they're going to win probably, they've won a trophy already this season. that got a great chance of winning two trophies and still got a chance with three with the Premier League but the FA Cup final so because they've been serial winners I think people to be fair are sort of just very scared to go in on Pep and say you would never think of saying it's a disgrace that Pep Guardiola might not win the league for two years that's what could happen in the next few weeks but you would never say that because of the right that is banker work would you?

30:27Gary Neville: So I think there's an element of people maybe sort of pointing the finger at Arsenal I think all

30:31Paul Scholes: I think that's a good sign for Arsenal that people are disliking him. Because they were getting sympathy the last few years. Is it disliking, Roy? No, I think people do dislike their style of play. Yeah, there is. A lot of people criticise their fans, whatever. But if you're in the Arsenal camp, player, manager, supporter, I couldn't care less. That's respect. They're actually starting to dislike you because they're thinking, you're going places now.

30:57Gary Neville: I'm not sure. Well, look, there is some style dislike. I just wonder whether all eyes are on Arsenal and they feel like everything's pointing towards them. Because actually, I think from my side, it's a case of can you step up? Step up. I've been urging them for three, four years to say, make that final step. To be fair, this year... You mean the final step to win you? The final step. That final step to win it from being second. They've done four seconds now or whatever it's been. It will be four if it's this season, but it won't be this. Yeah, but my ball, three seconds. My point is, it's like, go on, are you going to be champions?

31:27Gary Neville: And if they're champions, they'll get so much love, by the way. I think from pundits and analysts, apart from Scholesy, who called them the worst champions. I still want them to win the league. I'd rather them win the league than anybody else. I think people will give them a lot of love if they get over the line and win the league.

31:40Ian Wright: This is the reason why it's so tough. It's not that they're playing for that, they're just playing because they want to win it, but the fact is they'll earn it. They'll earn it because I think the free season, you're constantly saying it. To go again, and this is why the other week when you're seeing me go into that fan emotional kind of play, It was just like a... You know what I mean?

32:00Gary Neville: Well, you're on the rollercoaster, righty? I am on the rollercoaster. I'm at the front with my arms up. You know? Righty, on Sunday, you've got a dog. I call West Ham because the fight and relegation, we had a bad experience at West Ham. Oh, yeah, the 2-2. Yeah, we had a bad one at West Ham. So I always feel like West Ham's a dog of a game. Is this the last hurdle? I mean, obviously, got two games after, but is this the real... It's the biggest test left. What do you feel about Sunday in this West Ham game? Well, again...

32:30Ian Wright: What can you say? It's going to be tough. Give me something. Coming off the city. Like I said, the city, the chances we create, we're capable of creating chances. We're capable of creating chances against the city. So we should be able to do it against West Ham. The West Ham I watched the other day, what lost against Brentford. Obviously, we're not going to get that West Ham. Obviously, they're away from home and that. But I don't feel that it's a game we should be going in any less confident than playing Fulham at home. We'd just be doing what we're doing. You know, West Ham have got to come and try and get something, obviously, for their own predicament.

33:05Ian Wright: But I'm not worried to the point where, oh, gosh, West Ham. I'm not worried like that because I believe that we can. I think if you're going to worry, I would have worried about Atleti because they can come and they can really stifle you out and they try to do it. And they've got the quality in Alvarez and something like Griezmann and people like that too. Lorente, I really like that right wing. they can cause you problems. I don't think West Ham have got that kind of calibre of player. So all we've got to do is go there and be professional, solid, and play like we play.

33:33Roy Keane: Right, if the winner, do you think they'll win the league? Do you think if they beat West Ham?

33:37Ian Wright: I wanted us to... I'm glad we've got to the final. I'm glad we've got to the final. You don't need to worry about it. That's a game that's going to happen. Now, this is why with West Ham, there's going to be even more focus on getting that done. Because as soon as you can get that done, you can relax you can start thinking about winning them both maybe.

34:01Gary Neville: Just pick up on one thing that Wayne Rooney said. He said last night after the game that Arsenal over celebrated and they do get accused of that. Do you buy into that or do you think that's nonsense?

34:11Ian Wright: No, I think it's nonsense. You know, Wayne's very successful, he's done a lot of stuff. He's a different kind of personality. He's talking about a fan base that's waiting 20 odd years. We haven't won the Champions League. 20 years to try and win the league again. They've gone three years where it's been so close. The manager's getting it closer and closer. And the fans are feeling it. I thought that the stadium last night was one of the best. If they could stay like that, then I don't think Arsenal had any problems. Just backing them like that. They backed them last night. And I think that he's every right to say that because he knows what success is.

34:41Ian Wright: A lot of our fans don't know anything like that kind of success. So for us to be here, excited about it, and this is why I would say, you know what I mean? Don't let the celebration police, led by Wayne Rooney, you know, say to you, don't enjoy this moment because football is... No, but... Celebrating semi-fans is weird. It's not a case of celebrating... No, I'm not... When I say weird, I don't mean wrong. It's just a little bit... Are you saying that the fans are supposed to... I'm not saying it's wrong. No, it's not wrong, but even Wayne saying that, it's not over-celebrating, it's almost like a release.

35:15Ian Wright: It's a release. A release of joy. Going to a Champions League final is a big thing. I just watched me and Nance last night. We were just hugging, we were joyful, we were hugging, yay, yay, yay. And I was thinking, I'm happy. That's all the fans are, they're just happy that that's happened. Are you happy? Oh, delight. I'm over.

35:36Gary Neville: Do you know the reason that I... We won away in Juventus in 99. Obviously the game where Roy and Scholesy unfortunately got booked. How many goals did you score?

35:48Ian Wright: I want to know if he scored in the game.

35:49Gary Neville: That was a set-piece. Wasn't that a header? Exactly. For the set-piece. Set-piece again. Yeah, yeah. Set-piece again. At the end of that game, our celebrations with the United fans over in that corner were boisterous, I remember, to get to the final. So the idea that you shouldn't celebrate getting to a final of a Champions League when you've not been there before. In the dressing room, we were actually very quiet. Well, there's two reasons in the dressing room it was a bit muted. One was because, obviously, you get back to business because we know we had a league to win. And obviously because of what happened to these two, there was definitely a feeling that...

36:20Ian Wright: I remember when I was younger, watching teams, whether they played at Sheffield Wednesday or Villa Park, wherever they played, get to the semi-final. When they got to the semi-final, the celebrations were just like off the... It's like something that was just normal. Why all of a sudden people can't be happy together? I remember the FA Cup at Villa Park, Giggs' goal. Imagine... The crowd on the pitch. People are just dousing down joy. We're just fighting for the incident. Did you hear the noise though? I heard a sh -

36:48Roy Keane: You should be allowed to celebrate their moments though. Like 100 % like, Real Madrid, Barcelona, they're not in the final. Of course you celebrate, that's what you're in the game for. You're not like - No, but I think it's all right. What were your feelings after that semi-final when you know that you're then not playing in the finals? Was it on your mind? Like straight away?

37:08Ian Wright: They took it to two people. They took it to two worse people. What can you do?

37:12Gary Neville: No, but I'm just thinking like - Two worse people to ask. Because I think, to be fair, a lot of other players maybe would have made it a lot about them being in the final, but these two aren't like that and they understood. It was horrible, to be fair, and to be fair, I suspect it would have been horrible for them, but it was horrible for everybody else at the dressing room. We would have probably felt worse about somebody else missing than ourselves. Well, I'd say it for me, I don't think so.

37:36Roy Keane: And then the two players that were going to come in take your place like that when the show had stopped.

37:40Paul Scholes: Obviously.

37:41Gary Neville: They were like, this is in the corner. But he walked in and did the champagne. I thought, give him a hand in. But he had his hammer on me.

37:49Gary Neville: No, but it was horrible. I mean, Roy...

37:52Paul Scholes: But what you think is, after a game like that, and you miss big games, and when you play in midfield, and you're tackling people, there's a chance you're going to be suspended at some stage. But of course, it's more when you retire, because you do think we might get back next year. That's your mindset, obviously. Yeah. Disappointment when your career's over, you go, oh, that was a big moment. But when you're in the moment, in your career, you're just focused on the game. No, yeah. Might be another final in a couple of weeks and we'd have a game to focus on. You'd always hope you get back. Yeah, of course.

38:17Paul Scholes: Next final. Well, that's the thing. It could be a long time. Look at Arsenal getting to the Champions League final.

38:21Ian Wright: You've got to enjoy these moments. You've got to enjoy the moment. You can't take the moment away from the fans.

38:25Gary Neville: Who do you want in the final?

38:26Ian Wright: I'm not bothered because... No, no, no. Because I get beat by both, so it doesn't matter. No.

38:30Gary Neville: But who do you want in the final? No, seriously, if you could pick now, PSG or Bayern Munich, who would you pick as being the sort of most... What did you say to me?

38:38Ian Wright: What did you say to me? I don't want to... It's on camera in there. I don't know if I'm playing against Harry Kane every game, but we're talking about their forwards as well. It's the kind of game I genuinely believe, I don't care because the both of them have got excellent players, man. That is the story, Harry versus... Honestly, Harry against Arsenal, every Arsenal fan will be thinking, it's 1-0, it's like Drogba against us. When we're playing Chelsea, it's 1-0 before they get on the pitch, because Drogba. When we're playing Tottenham with Harry, it's 1-0. He seems to always score. So I don't want Harry playing against Harry.

39:13Ian Wright: But I don't care who we play. I think it'll be PSG.

39:17Roy Keane: And then if this goes out, I think it'll be Bayern.

39:21Gary Neville: Just quickly, one last point on Arsenal. I'll ask both of you two because you played midfield. He has left Zubimendi out in the last couple of games. And he's brought Myles Lewis-Skelley in. And that seems to have had a big impact in terms of the energy of midfield. You've obviously mentioned about full-backs playing in midfield. I remember you talked about Trent Alexander-Arnold before the last World Cup. And Scholes, you said full-backs should be nowhere near midfield. But he had a big impact. Let's start with you, Ritey. You know something?

39:50Ian Wright: What's happened with him, especially the last four or five months? Because remember, this guy's rise was unbelievable. How quickly he got to the top and everything, England. And then all of a sudden... Third left-back.

40:01Gary Neville: Absolutely.

40:02Ian Wright: But what's happened, especially the last five, six months, he's not been involved. He's hardly been involved in it. But what's been happening is Mikel has been playing him in training in the midfield. He was always a midfield player. He's been a midfield since he was in the midfield. Oh, was he? No, no, he's a midfielder. He's always been a midfielder. They revert him to left-back. But I don't know if it's genius management from him, and the fact that Zubermen's form dropped off at the right time. But the fact that he's been playing, and you heard Mikel in the interview talking about his attitude and what he's done.

40:32Ian Wright: No, it was Declan saying about his attitude, and he's just got on with it. and he's been playing in midfield for the last three months in Arsenal.

40:39Paul Scholes: Yeah, but it's well and good in training, right?

40:41Ian Wright: Yeah, but then the manager's seen enough of him to say, I'm going to put him in those games. People say, yeah. People were saying things to me like, yeah, but it's only Fulham, wasn't it? Yeah, but Fulham at this stage of the season, him not playing there ever before. And then the next game, leaving out Zubomendi to put him in. It was brilliant for him. We keep having these conversations.

41:01Paul Scholes: We talked about Manu a few months ago. It's a great example for these young players. when you're left out of the team. Be fucking ready.

41:07Ian Wright: Yes.

41:08Paul Scholes: Be ready. A lot of lads lose a bit of spirit, a little bit. You're training. Be ready. You will be called upon. Because, actually, you're going for like two, three, four competitions. Go back a month. Be ready for these kids. Instead of downing tools, you're a young kid. You're learning your trade. And obviously, he has been ready. So, a great thumbs up to him for that.

41:26Ian Wright: And can you imagine if he's putting... Because remember, all the talk before was Miles Lewis-Gillie playing in midfield. Right, so if he fails at that stage, people will say to me, how can he put him in? He's never played in midfield for the first team. But he put him in because he's seen it. Like Roy's saying. It was a risk, wasn't it, really? But it would have been a risk. He's done that as a kid, though, hasn't he? It wasn't that much of a risk, was it? I think Roy said the same about... It is a risk. It is a risk. It is a risk. But you know the word... He never played in the midfield. Never played in the midfield for the first team.

41:54Because it could have done as bad as Zubamanda was doing.

41:57Ian Wright: Yeah, but it's not even a case of doing as bad as Zubamanda. He's coming in to actually progress us. That was always going to happen to Zubimendi. Coming from Spain, Premier League, it's going to be hard. It's going to be tough. But what you're saying is that Miles... I'm not taking anything away from Miles. I think he should have been playing left-back for you. I think you'd have been a better team for your left-back. A better football team. He's gone into midfield, he's done great.

42:18Paul Scholes: What the word you've used is that you're looking for something different in your team. Energy. Sometimes you need to trust somebody. Listen, he'll be able to deal with the ball. He's an international footballer, of course. and even last night we're not saying he was doing anything extraordinary but he was just in the right positions he said it would be by anyone Sunday that sometimes being out of it it helps you sometimes you have to sit and stew and learn I think Saka's the biggest difference to us I think he makes a massive yeah he's fresher because when he was playing before he was injured he wasn't the same person this injury has done him the world of good I think and he could be the one the last four or five games but where Arsenal have done well over the last few years remember Saka was a huge player from Odegaard now these lads in a strange way the last few months obviously injuries I've been French players I know when Saka comes back into the team you're like you're not a man anymore in that sense Saka makes the rest of them better players he makes all the guys how many times do you see all the guys in that little space there in between Saka and the midfield and just feeding him in them runs even Ben White you've got to have connections in that team the connections haven't been there even with Jokres

43:16Ian Wright: the connections haven't been there Uri Timber being that we always thought that was going to be really made but Ben Ben White who's not been playing regularly he's coming and he really does compliment him well but Saka I think Do you know what I like watching the games, even the games last night?

43:28Paul Scholes: OK, there'll be more quality, I'm sure, Bayern and PSG, but you know, balls are coming and I get annoyed when I watch United and Liverpool the weekend. You know, full-backs are getting beaten at the back post all the time. What happened with full-backs actually winning the ball? Wow. So I enjoyed that side of Arsenal last night. You're going, oh, what's wrong? That's what I used to do, England. You want to win it, didn't you? Well, that's what you're supposed to do, but every full-back now is getting... That's gone though, wasn't it? Liverpool the weekend, the lads getting beaten at the back post.

43:52Paul Scholes: Why buy a tall striker? No, like, a winger. Fucking head the ball And it's acceptable It's wrong As if that's not part of defending Defending the far post Well they all have to be footballers You're on about Arsenal Whatever the style of player Last night Trossard has the shot Two wide players Saki's getting attacked This player's getting the box

44:08Gary Neville: But we get your goals That's one thing for Arsenal And I think I said this A few weeks ago They are the best team In the league Not just at defending They are the best team at defending But the way in which They recover after losing the ball Every player Every time Is incredible And that does need some respect In the centre To get a team, you've been a coach, I've been a coach for a short period of time. You can get 11 players and all the subs to sprint back into your shape every time you lose a football. That is a skill. That's a skill, yeah. That is a big skill because you always get one or two that might not just get back as quick as they should.

44:41Ian Wright: You only need one or two to...

44:42Gary Neville: Arsenal have no players that don't sprint back at the absolute maximum every single time. And that, I think, is their biggest strength. They have a massive sort of spirit in their defending. I know you say Scholes from a style perspective, but I watch Arsenal. Sometimes they do frustrate me when they over-recycle it and they pass it around too much. I think, you know, be a bit more direct, get it into your forwards, put some balls into the box and get in behind it. Declan, be a bit more further forward so you can get on the end of it. But then when I watch them defend, and it isn't just when they're in a compact shape, they're absolutely brilliant, they are.

45:11Roy Keane: Declan Rices were great. I think I loved them driving with the ball yesterday, but then even getting back as well, like that's a hard shift that I do box to box in. like the 80th minute is such a tough shift but some players like relish that do you know what i mean some players love getting back and putting in that sly tackle but his work rate i thought he

45:31Ian Wright: was excellent i was i was genuinely genuinely happy for the york rest genuinely happy for him because as a forward i mean like even watching it i was saying get your body get your boy and he was doing it and he's laying it off and even to the point we got confident flicked it inside to say, you know, it was just good to see because we were... They do go down easily, they're martial players. I've given them loads of credit, but the way some of them roll around. Oh my goodness. It's the game, Roy. It's part of the game now, man. Yeah, keep yourself.

45:59Gary Neville: Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

46:06Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian. Whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. From one of the fastest-growing soccer newsrooms, The Guardian brings you in-depth World Cup coverage that gets into the winners and losers on and off the pitch. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective, and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S.

46:37national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, try On the Ball. It's a game in the Guardian app and it's really, really fun. And if you're into stuff like this...

46:45Ian Wright: Well, I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much. It's a bit too real. Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay. Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for on-the-move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more.

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48:13Gary Neville: Let's look back at the Man United Liverpool game on Sunday. And I think we're getting to that point now where Manchester United are going to be champions in the Champions League. Man champions.

48:24Ian Wright: That was a fraudulent slip there. Champions. Oh, Man United, are we playing well now? Honestly, you're getting my nerves, gal. Can we still win it? We can catch it. We can catch it. Honestly, the turnaround.

48:36Roy Keane: What is the point? What's the point?

48:39Gary Neville: I think we're seven points I like that seven points behind City I think but they've got a game in hand so they've got I like watching that game on Man United and Liverpool on Sunday the big question obviously now in the next month is both teams will get into the Champions League Man City United are absolutely guaranteed to get into the Champions League and the big question is what do Man City United do about the manager Michael Carrick and the big question is from people who support the sort of appointment of Michael is there. For people who maybe are a little bit more sort of nervous about it, the question that keeps getting asked is, who would you put in?

49:17Paul Scholes: Well, what's your vibes now? Because you've got a bit of... You're on the inside there, aren't you? I know what he's going to say. What's he going to say, Scoles, before he's... No, no, no. I think he's got a bit of inside info.

49:27Gary Neville: I've got no inside info. He says Nagelsman every time I see him. No, Scoles, do you know why I say Nagelsman? I don't even know Nagelsman. And just a minute, I've not spoken to anybody at Manchester United about Nagelsman. at all. It's an absolute fabrication of life. So the reason I say Nagelsmann is because he's been at Hoffenheim, RB Leipzig, Bayern Munich. That's enough. They've not won anything in about 100 years. Bayern Munich and Germany. Bayern Munich doesn't last very long at Bayern Munich. My point is he's got 10 years of experience managing clubs that have got incredible coaching pedigree.

49:55Gary Neville: The German national team has put him in. They're not using the books. Anyway, I'm not putting him in. Germany are not very good now. That wasn't my question.

50:03Ian Wright: Why don't you just have Michael?

50:08Gary Neville: Michael, and that could be the case, right? My point is, when people say who is there available, and it might be that there's no one better available, but the list here of the favourites for the job are, and these are in no particular order, by the way, Cesc Fabregas... Are Man United? Just let me hear me out. These are the people who've been... Is this a Chelsea job, aren't they? These are the people who've been put forward. Irreola... Is that in order, gal? Have you put this forward? No, sorry, gal. Irreola, Glasner, Nagelsmann, Pochettino, Ancelotti, Enrique. Enrique first? So these are the people who have been put forward.

50:43Gary Neville: Michael Carrick, Cesc Fabregas, Iriola, Olivia Glasner, Oliver Glasner, sorry, Julian Nagelsmann, Michio Pochettino, Carlo Ancelotti, Luis Enrique. Okay, they're the people who are on the list. That's a proper mix isn't it? It's a proper mix of people. Okay, you're very much... Michael Carrick. Michael Carrick. Yeah. OK. Why?

51:05Ian Wright: Because of the turnaround, what he's done, how the players reacted to him, how he's coaching, whatever's happened is working.

51:12Gary Neville: Yeah.

51:13Ian Wright: So, you know, the players seem to be, look at what nearly happened to Kobe Manu for the back of your old manager. But do you think he'd get him winning trophies? You know something, I think... That's the question. You know what? Can he win the league? I think that Michael Carrick will be able to do that. I think that he'll be able to do that. Is your reason for thinking that,

51:30Gary Neville: because of the journey that Mikel Arteta's been on, at Arsenal, whereby obviously he's been at work a couple of years as an assistant and then he's obviously had this sort of five-year...

51:37Ian Wright: But what it shows, Gary, is that it can be done. You know what I mean? Like, obviously, Ole... Yeah, but he wouldn't get five, six years at United. No, I'm just saying, but he's right, he's thinking for that.

51:47Gary Neville: That's probably...

51:48Ian Wright: Yeah, because it can be done. And, like, he's got the kind of character, the persona of somebody that can manage what's going on. He can control... He's not bothered about the noise of what's going on. He seems to have got the players going. Now, obviously, it depends on the players who are coming in. And it goes from there, Man United buy to kick on again because you can see that it doesn't seem like there's too much more that's needed, obviously, to get to the back to the top. He has done really well. He's settled everything down. I still think there are big issues in the team. What are they?

52:20Gary Neville: But he can't fix those now because he can't change. Yeah, obviously the challenge is... He can in some way.

52:26Paul Scholes: Well, the challenge will be in December, won't it? Of course, that'll be a big thing.

52:30Gary Neville: One thing you can't doubt, surely, is that he's got the very best out of these players that are there. I'm not doubting that. OK, so he can't do anything about it. He came in, to be fair, without a transfer. He wasn't going to get loads of money in the January transfer. Which is why I said Ian's right, that the summer's going to be massive for him. Let's move around the room. I'll come to you next, then. Thank you. Greity, you're very much in the camp of Michael Carrick because of Mikel Arteta's doing it. And you feel that it can be done. Scolzi, would you, I mean, if you were... Margles, man.

53:00Gary Neville: So where would you be in respect? If you were Manchester United chairman now, would you appoint Michael Carrick in the summer? From that list, if Enrique was available, then I'd probably go for him. I actually think the club have done well at this point by not being overreactive. I think in past years, he might have been a bit emotional. He's won his beat Liverpool, right? Give him a five-year deal. I actually think the club have been good in that way. now what he's done he's been brilliant the only thing he has really done he's played Kobe mine he's played people in the right positions what we've seen from the other managers the team were all over the place that some system that they had no idea how to play and they have got four good forwards that get you out of a lot of trouble at times and I still see issues right through the middle of the pitch as I say that'll come whether it's a midfield or it's a centre-halves I don't think there's a lot of pace every time there's a problem with United it's right through the middle of the pitch.

53:56He said, oh, there's a Bozalai goal. Every goal they concede seems to be like that. Now, I don't think we'll know about Michael till we get to November, December.

54:05Gary Neville: But you would appoint him unless Enrique was available. Unless Enrique, from that list, unless Enrique was available. Because Enrique's got to be one of the best. Why is it PSG?

54:12Paul Scholes: I know, but you're on about Enrique, a good example. Enrique might be on 20 million a year. So we could look at him in the United and go, OK, man, he's on 20 million a year. Yeah, I wasn't thinking about the money and all that. I was just thinking about his list. Of course, but in terms of the package, we could all have a list, but it depends on what remit for the managers to come in. This job will become real in August.

54:30Gary Neville: I think on the recruitment, just quickly on the recruitment, if you remember last summer, United had scored not hardly any goals last season. They could only fix almost one part of the team last summer and it was quite obvious. They said, basically, we just need a goalkeeper and these three strikers. I think it's always going to be that the midfield and the defence was going to come this summer. So they do need two defenders. That's come last year. The issues are always there last year. They couldn't sign eight players in one summer. They'll just sign two forwards and two midfield players. is there?

54:54Gary Neville: Huh? I think they corrected the front line because obviously Rashford was leaving, Sancho was leaving, Hoyland was leaving so they had to get that right and get the goals right to be fair. So they focused on one area and get that right. They now need to do the two central midfield players alongside Cobb Emanuel and the centre half and probably a left back to back up Luke Shaw if they're playing 50 odd games. So they do need two defenders definitely in two midfields. I think that's this season but just to clarify you would appoint Michael Carrick if they can't get Luis Enrique. Yes. Jill, Michael Carrick.

55:22Roy Keane: Yeah, Carrick. I just worry if you take them out and put someone in, what about if what happened before happens and then you've got something that's working? No, I just mean with previous managers. You've gone for these big names and it hasn't worked. So what about if, at the minute, it's working, obviously setting out to get Champions League, they're going to get it. And I think he's come in. I feel like he's just got the team together. A little bit like what Gareth Southgate did at England. I feel like he's just settled everything, got them together. They look like they're playing for each other.

55:50Roy Keane: And I think he should get the job. I think they're going to get Champions League. I just worry if you take them out, go for this big name, what about if it goes to pot again? I think they have to factor in as well, the owners, whoever chooses them, they have to factor in that there are going to be times, if they employ Michael, that they might have to take a bit of pain. They might have to take three or four games. Look at Rosinha. It's what Chelsea boys should do. They should factor into that. We've got a really young manager who's not done the Premier League before. At some point there's going to be a run of games where it doesn't quite go your way.

56:21Now we've seen five games. Five games who don't score a goal.

56:24Paul Scholes: He's gone. He was interviewed a few months ago, Riding, and he said, yeah, we're delighted with the manager. He was gone a few weeks later. Yeah. I think for all the clubs we're talking about managing. You talk about contracts. I think United is different. Contracts don't matter. I think there's a different animal to United. I'm not saying you're bigger than Bayern or Chelsea. Well, bigger than Chelsea, yeah. But it's a different animal at United, isn't it? To all these other clubs you're talking about, Tetsa, Arsenal. There's no way a manager could win to United. We actually think about winning the league.

56:47Paul Scholes: It's different, different animals. We have to think about a manager who can win the league. So you don't think about... And all this thing about contracts, just give me one year. give me three give me five it don't fucking matter contracts don't matter you lose five games in the spin but if they don't know Carrick I know you don't know until you're actually in the manager's seat he walked on the Marino he walked on the Oli he had a little spell when Oli he had for three games he's now manager so they must have an idea if they think he has that personality to take him forward of course he lacks that experience but he is winning football matches and there is problems affecting midfield of course and the way they're so open at the back it's ridiculous but we go back to it any business or industry do we think there's better options on paper there is but that doesn't mean to say I like Enrique of course I like Enrique for what he's done he's got that experience even at an international level he seems like a good character his team he gets his teams to run and any manager who gets his players top players to run I tell you that's a big thumbs up but again they might speak to Enrique and then people don't look at Man United anymore he's probably thinking I'm not going to Man United with all your issues and I want to be winning the big prizes every year He had the personal answer get rid of big players as well.

57:56Gary Neville: He has done. And he likes a challenge, of course. You're the Manchester United chairman for the next couple of minutes and Luis Enrique is not available because he's going to stay at Paris Saint-Germain. Let's just imagine that's the case. Because obviously, if Luis Enrique became available, everybody would say he must have been.

58:10Paul Scholes: If Carrick stays on the United and gets a contract, I won't fall off my chair when I read the news. I won't be going, wow. No, but would you, now, if you're in that position,

58:17Gary Neville: from what you see from the outside...

58:18Paul Scholes: Depends on what the other options are, but if all them are, if they're hitting stumbling blocks with them whether it be buying them out of contract or the contracts they might want they might want all these top managers will want your 10-15 million a year they might say to Carrick I'm not saying you're the cheaper option but in terms of the package people know you at the club I can see where they're coming from absolutely but I'm not going to sit there and think Carrick's going to get Man United competing in the top of the next two or three years I don't see it but I'd love to be proven wrong give him a chance to become great he's at Man United but he's been at United a long time though there must have been an idea Again, he's been with Marino.

58:51Paul Scholes: He's been with Oli. He's no manager. They must have an idea. People in the building go, he's got something about him. Would it be his calmness, whatever? I don't necessarily... I think that's good sometimes. Sometimes we want manager who are emotional. We've seen Simone last night. That's his kind of trade. I've praised Eddie Howe before for his calmness. And that's more maybe off the field stuff, working with people above you. Because that's the biggest challenge of any manager, working with the people above you. Has Cara got that to work with Wilcox and all this? Is he too soft? Recruitment?

59:18Paul Scholes: Will he be in charge of all of that? Next year, they're going to be in the Chapman's League. That brings its own challenges. So you think they may be having doubts? Because they're taking a bit of time about it. I don't mind taking time. No, there'll be doubts with everyone. There'll be doubts with all of them. Because you know what? Whatever it might be. But my point is, he's in the driving seat because he's winning football matches. Now we could analyse, look at the Newcastle game, the Leeds game, Chelsea. Liverpool goals, they're giving up. And you go, you could, but he's winning football matches.

59:49Paul Scholes: He's getting over the line in certain games without necessarily playing well. And do you trust him enough in the summer to say, he's got his eye on two midfielders, their recruitment was better last year with the attacking players, they bought two or three who were used to the Premier League. Maybe that's going to be their remit now. Listen, we tried abroad, let's try and get lads who know the Premier League, who are robust, and lads who can play 50, 60 games a season, like the Arsenal lads are going to be doing. No, our city have done for the last three, four or five years. That's the challenge for him as a manager.

1:00:13Paul Scholes: Jakey Long, yes.

1:00:14Gary Neville: Do you think they ignore who's coming in by now? You don't think so? No, because I think when they actually appointed them, if anybody rang up and said, look, what's the position? They definitely said that whatever happens, we're going to wait till the end of the season before we actually... Which is right. I think they ignore by now, do you not?

1:00:32Roy Keane: I think they ignore Michael Carrick. I think you'd have heard,

1:00:34Gary Neville: if they were approaching other managers in this market with the size of the club and the way in which agents sort of what would be leaked stuff, I think you'd be hearing... Certainly not. I know, I know. But they must be making inquiries, Gary. They must be putting teams. He must be looking for the short.

1:00:44Ian Wright: Because you have to make some signings at some stage. Is he going to be in charge of that? Is he going to be involved in that?

1:00:49Gary Neville: Michael has said twice in the last two weeks that he's involved in recruitment meetings now for next season. He said that at his press conferences. That's been public. Oh, he'd have to be. Because he has to be. Because ultimately, one thing you would trust him to say is, I mean, he must be seeing the midfield and the defensive issues that Roy and Scholes, we all see. You know what I mean? If you're going to play 4-4-2, you need two midfield players who are bloody good and you need two centre-halves who can play one-on-one for a start. And at the moment, you see on Sunday when Liverpool broke through, was it's always like and they just you know they're all so you need players that can be basically sort of better than what they've currently got in those positions but I think they knew that at the start of the season

1:01:21Paul Scholes: but you want to look at a manager on the sideline if you look at Michael Carrick the weekend they won the game fantastic but when Liverpool were getting at them you still want to look at the manager's side of your pitch like last night would it be Arsenal with Arteta someone going yeah he's the man you know has Carrick got that presence about him or has that belief

1:01:37Gary Neville: even though they're winning football matches he looks more of a Manchester United manager Roy than I've seen in the last two or three. I probably would disagree with that. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely, yeah. Sometimes you look at someone and you think, does he look like a Manchester United? The only thing,

1:01:50Paul Scholes: but the games for United have had, there's been no jeopardy, there's been no edge to the games. Where you're going to Arsenal last night, hey, we've got to win this. Which will happen in August. There's tension in the whole city. United played Liverpool the weekend, it could have been 5-5 and everyone was going to go, there's no edge to it, this could cost us the league, this could cost us. We're talking about the league, they're third at the moment, Liverpool are fourth.

1:02:10Gary Neville: He's a poor performer. When he came in, though, obviously, before the first game that he played... City and Arsenal were the dream stat for him. You want to play City and Arsenal. I know, but my point is, though, if he had lost those two games badly, it could have been a horrific four months, this. Of course. Absolutely. He won those two games. Which my point is, this job does not come real till next season. Yeah. Till August. I was 100%. Before, they were interviewing Oli, Roode and Michael, and I said, whatever happens, I'm 100%. you have to make sure you go and get a world class manager in the summer you've got to use this as a whatever happens whether you get the Champions League whether you don't get the Champions League just go and appoint the best manager in the world for the club because one thing he does I mean look people will say well okay well they appointed Jose but Jose did finish second he did win trophies so he did bring some success you know what I mean and obviously you know other managers have won trophies as well but the 20 million doesn't faze me because they were paying they're paying Casemiro currently 20 million they're paying Marcus Rashford apparently 20 million so they're paying players 20 million the manager is the most important person yeah but the last few months we're talking about cutbacks and all this Gary sorry Gary you wouldn't do Michael no so I've been absolutely adamant all the way through that they should go and appoint the best manager in the world and I would be with you if they could get Luis Enrique or Carlo Ancelotti for me I would say that that to me feels like a decision they should make if they can't get those two and you're starting to move into the others and you're starting to move into the others well them two you are to actually think we can win the league yeah I'm less sure I'm less sure when you start to move into the others.

1:03:40Paul Scholes: I am. If you're Pep and Arteta and you're sitting in the summer and they're on the holidays or on some yacht somewhere and it's announced Carrick's the manager, will they be sitting there going, would they be fearful of him? Or if you're on a boat, these are the managers coming in, all of a sudden they go, all right. When Klopp came into Liverpool, people go, oh, listen.

1:03:59Gary Neville: Would Pep have been worried about Mikel Arteta being appointed at Arsenal years ago?

1:04:04Ian Wright: This is what I'm saying. It's a good point, Gal, because at some stage, when does someone like a Michael Carrick get to the place where he can start to progress? So as we can see the players he gets, so as we can see if he's got the character. Because look at Mikel. When Mikel got the job, he's number two. He's never even managed before. It's like at some stage, the club's either got to go, Enrique or Ancelotti, are they going to go? We're going to go with Carrick. And then we see Michael Carrick graphing. When you look at Michael Carrick's demeanour, his personality, he seems like he can deal with the noise and what's going on.

1:04:35Ian Wright: Will he be allowed to grow? Obviously, Mikel's got a lot of time. I don't think United are allowed to grow.

1:04:42Paul Scholes: The bottom line is we don't know. It's a shame. We don't know until he's in there. You're the proper manager. You're not the caretaker man. How do the players see him? When I see the players last few months, we love Mike and he's great. You're not there to be liked. I don't know. But that all changes. That's not his fault. That all changes once you get left out. When you leave one, I'm out. But on your point, Scholes,

1:05:03Gary Neville: The only reason Mikel Arteta is the time to grow... But he won the FA Cup. Because it's Arsenal. No, no, no. No expectancy there. There is expectancy at Arsenal. Of course there is. Not like Man United.

1:05:18Ian Wright: There's a lot of teams like... If United have a bad start...

1:05:22Paul Scholes: If we're sitting here next October, November, and they've had a bad start, a tricky start, everyone will be sitting here going, lack of experience, should have gone for a bit. And that's the pressure you'd have to deal with.

1:05:32Gary Neville: But we've had two examples in the last 10 years of two managers who've not won a league title at the two of the three biggest clubs in the country, Arsenal and Liverpool, where it's taken them five years to win a title. But they've progressed and they've been given a chance to grow. They've been given a chance to grow because they've delivered Champions League football as a minimum. And secondly, there's been progression where it looks like they're getting nearer. So Michael, he can't go and have a 15-match losing run where there's 15th in the league, but he could lose two or three matches and be in fourth one season and then still get into the Champions League and see that as being something of progression.

1:06:04Gary Neville: So for me, maintaining Champions League football and progressing closer, if you can, towards the title would mean he would get four years. Nice, Gary. I agree with that. But I'm saying, but if that's the people at the top of the club decide that, then yeah, great. But will they? You ask any of us here. If you lose four or five games.

1:06:19Paul Scholes: If you ask any of us, the next four or five years we're all going to be managing Man United and that's to try and get the Champions League where there's no five, six teams. Well, we don't say they're going, yeah, I think.

1:06:26Gary Neville: No, Roy, you have to win the league eventually is what I'm saying.

1:06:28Paul Scholes: Yeah, but when's eventually, Gary?

1:06:29Gary Neville: No, my point is, so... Liverpool and Arsenal, you would accept Liverpool. Six years. Man United. Mikel's six years and Jurgen Klopp's five years. But Liverpool, you can compare to Manchester United, the most successful club in the country with United on 20 titles. And Jurgen Klopp got given five years because they loved his football. But he was started competing in cup competition. And you knew Liverpool were coming. Yeah. So, Manchester United aren't coming now. But Michael doesn't have to win the title to be given...

1:06:54Paul Scholes: Can United afford to wait to be a club that are coming? Why did you believe in Liverpool? Why did you believe in Liverpool with Klopp?

1:07:02Gary Neville: Why did you believe in Liverpool? I liked the football and they were getting closer. But what did he do previously to that? He won in Germany, I get that. But Mikel hasn't.

1:07:08Paul Scholes: Mikel hasn't. No, no, but we're on about Carrick. Carrick hasn't got that. Carrick's experience as manager is at Middlesbrough. So if you've had a sticky patch after two years or three years at Liverpool, like they were poor, I used to watch them and go, but Klopp, you would go, yeah, but he's got that. But Mikel hasn't. He did do something previous. I'm not, I'm on about Carrick. It's expectancy at the club. Because for the first three or four years, people were saying Mikel's doing brilliant. It's great. Now, all of a sudden, they've got to win.

1:07:32Gary Neville: If Manchester United are reassessing where they are, they have to get to a point whereby they win the league. Of course, none of us are going to reduce our ambition of what United need to do. But he can grow, but he does have to get into the Champions League and play good football, like he's progressing. That is the remit. Because it's not us not allowing him to grow. We're saying, will the club allow him to grow? The club allow him to grow. If he's achieving Champions League football and looking like he's getting closer, yes, of course they will. Why would they not? If he looks like, yeah, oh yeah, they will, yeah.

1:07:59Gary Neville: If they finish in seventh, and the football's a bit crap, and they're losing loads of matches, absolutely, he'll be sacked. Yeah. 100%.

1:08:06Roy Keane: Gary, has Michael surprised you? Like, from him taking over, did you think he wasn't going to be in this conversation?

1:08:12Gary Neville: Do you know, I didn't have a clue what would happen when he took over, to be fair, Jill. I didn't have a clue, I didn't know whether he would get, I mean, I thought the squad before Christmas, when we'd hammer him, could get into the Champions League. I thought they were good enough to do so without having games in midweek. They should be where they are. but I didn't think he would turn it around as quickly as he did by doing what

1:08:29Paul Scholes: you're watching United games but you're still watching United yeah they're winning some matches but it's been a struggle but you're watching and still feeling going he's definitely the man I like what he's doing

1:08:38Gary Neville: you're still looking and going they're getting over the line again I do like the style Roy so on Sunday when I watched them for 25 minutes against Liverpool and that counter attack and they had that strength and that playing forward against a bad Liverpool but Roy hang on but Roy the style of you know the Mbermo running down the line Bruno playing balls over the quick I really liked it For 25 minutes, I really liked it. We watch Hammer in before Christmas and they're playing this system and you're thinking, switching play. I'm not having that. So for me, what I saw on Sunday was some electricity in their attacks.

1:09:06Gary Neville: Contra-attacking. Yeah, so Cunha and Bermode, Bruno playing them in, Cesco running down the... That isn't the issue, though, guys. We know that's right. We know that's sorted now with them four players. But Manish haven't delivered that for the last 10 years, always, Goalsy. Let's not take that for granted. He's delivered that in three months. Yes. One thing on style, I do like some of the things I see. and the second half they were they were they were madness for like half an hour they were all over the place but my point is I still think from an attacking perspective the width the system the playing forward are light you're saying though Michael can't stop that what happened on Sunday or what's happening in some games which one?

1:09:39you said he can't stop what's happening in the middle of the pitch in the two second and a half as in

1:09:42Roy Keane: when was that on Sunday? on Sunday on games in the past yeah well I've said everyone's broke through the middle you can stop that by simple coaching look you're 2-0 up Why are Casemiro and Mainz Why is Casemiro flying off to the left wing He's playing in his fucking position Michael can stop that

1:09:58Gary Neville: On Sunday when I watched that game It did remind me a little bit of us at times Back in our days When we would to be fair We would be all over I don't think we would at 2-0 up You don't have to go anywhere I'm not sure Scolzer At 2-0 up you don't have to go anywhere You just stay there They just scored five goals But Scolzer were games we played in That were madness at times Whereby Yeah I agree Because we had two in midfield And you know ultimately That pitch is big to play two in midfield Full stop It just is and you know that better than I do. And if your full-backs are going forward and you've got one of your midfields going forward, you literally, we can end up on it.

1:10:29Guys, if we're 2-0 up against Liverpool, I don't think me and Roy are going anywhere. Casemiro, especially the experienced one, he's fucking flying to the left wing and he can't get back.

1:10:39Gary Neville: Scorsese, we gave up 2-0 positions in games at times back in our day. I remember a game against Middlesbrough when we won the league for the first time in 96, we were all over the fucking place. Yeah, but what did we win? I know, but I'm just saying we won the last time. I know, but I'm just saying, but we did. My point is you talk about Michael and his coach and saying he can't stop that. I didn't say he can't stop that. I didn't say he can't stop that. You said he can't stop that.

1:11:04Roy Keane: I think he meant as in bringing players in, maybe. No, you said he can't stop people overrunning the field.

1:11:12Gary Neville: On Sunday, to be fair, Scolsy, basically he's playing the best players that he possibly can right now. I don't think anybody else would pick different players. And you've got Casemiro and Manu in there. Casemiro, to be fair, for 20 minutes was playing right wing, left wing. He was trying to score goals at 2-1 up. And then basically Manu was in there on his own. They were getting beat up in midfield, didn't they? That's exactly my point. You can stop that by telling Casemiro, don't go anywhere, just fucking stay there.

1:11:35Paul Scholes: What do you think I'd say about it, for all that, at least it's entertaining for you.

1:11:38Gary Neville: Absolutely. When you look at last year. It's better, yeah, of course. Dreadful. Oh, look, where I'm... So I was 100 % Michael should not get the job before he was appointed. I was 100 % when he was appointed. So what are you now? Because you're still not really sad. No, well, you've not fucking come to me yet. I've come to you three times. You've not fucking answered me. You've not asked me whether he should get the job. I was 100 %... Should he get the job? He was 100 % when he didn't get appointed that he should get the job. And to be fair, I've been adamant all the way through. I am 50-50 right now.

1:12:03Gary Neville: Oh, fuck you now. I am. So you've not got an answer?

1:12:05Ian Wright: He said that Luis Enrique Ancelotti... I said Luis Enrique Ancelotti become available. You're not listening to him?

1:12:10Gary Neville: If Luis Enrique Ancelotti become available, I do think Manchester United should go and appoint a manager who's won Champions League, titles in different countries, and have somebody who can handle the scrutiny of the job. If they're going into the Glasner and Iriola stuff and Fabregas, I don't believe they should appoint those over Michael. None of us have gone into them. None of us have gone into them. So Michael should get it if he don't get a world-class manager. The only two on that list that are world-class right now. Which is what we all said, yeah. Jesus, that's a long way to go.

1:12:35Ian Wright: We've been right round the houses, man. If you just said that at the start, like if we don't get Lewis Enrique, we don't get Encelotti, then we get Michael Carrick, we could have had 20 minutes talking about something else. so I agree with you too

1:12:47Gary Neville: and stick to football it'll be three minutes longer we could just fuck off it's a fucking hour long podcast we're going to beat it up a bit

1:12:54Paul Scholes: the one thing I said about the Liverpool game when it was 2-2 and you're looking going United at least they still had the mentality to try and win the game so you could lose it against a poor Liverpool team so he does have that in his kind of DNA United's about winning football matches and not maybe settling for draws but he's got to be careful I'd love to see it but you don't settle for that the other argument is then the Brentford game when you're 2-0 up and you start changing everything because you're playing Brentford there still has to be out of business you're tuning up let's win 3 or 4

1:13:18Gary Neville: we were arguing well we were arguing you mentioned that on Sunday it's interesting because against Liverpool actually at 2-1 I thought he needs to shore up that midfield he needs to do something because they're literally getting cut open it's like a mess however he decided to stay on the front foot a little bit and it paid off in the end against Brentford I actually didn't expect him to go defensive at half time but he did and I thought do you know something I actually supported it in the end because obviously one he got over the line I don't think that made a difference you said this last week Brentford was still getting chances I don't think it made a difference and how did it work because they were 2-0 up

1:13:50Paul Scholes: and they lost the second half 1-0 so how was that attack you keep saying that Roy but my point is I reckon this is Brentford

1:13:55Gary Neville: but my point is I reckon they would have conceded more goals if they'd stay as they were in that game I do think they were on track to concede 3-4 goals so what about staying on the front foot then so what prayers are you've got to be standing it is Brentford is that Bayern Munich it's a call they went 2-0 up and I think he thinks right we've won this game it's obviously one that we need to win to get into the Champions League I feel like we're not playing well and we're a bit open. My defence needs protecting. I'm just going to basically just sink back. Are you not tinged out against Leeds? I was just going to say, don't forget the Leeds game.

1:14:20Gary Neville: Outplayed against Leeds. No, against Leeds at half-time, I thought he should have made changes. But we're all sat here thinking we should have done this and we should have done that, aren't we? I stood on a touchline, to be fair, not knowing whether to stick a twist for four months, to be fair. Every time I twisted, I should have stuck. Every time I twisted. That's management. Do you know something? Management, you've got 16. Joe Pontoon, what's it called, Blackjack? When you've got 15 and 16 and you think, will I get a five or a six or will I get a ten? And it's that one where it's literally, as a manager, you've got 15 and 16 in a lot of games, I'm telling you, and you stick or twist.

1:14:57Gary Neville: And that's where the best managers make those decisions. They're great. You should have just said it happened. I already got it. And then we'd have a five-minute podcast. He's got people in his ear as well. Super six.

1:15:06Roy Keane: It's not just him. You know something? It's not just him making them decisions.

1:15:08Ian Wright: Really good listening to you Miami United guys talk about that.

1:15:11Roy Keane: Michael's not the only one making them decisions, the coaches and that. I bet he's got so many people in his ear. He's not me.

1:15:17Ian Wright: Give him a chance to grow. Can we have a chance to grow out of United?

1:15:20Gary Neville: You make a really good point. In the first half, they were compact, they were very good and that's what he coached them to do. He lost the discipline on the pitch in the second half for 20 minutes when they conceded the goal. Whose fault is that? Whose fault is that? Exactly. It was Ahmad Di Alos because he gave the ball away in a bad area and he can't account for that as a coach. Come on. You weren't saying you were saying you were saying you were playing position. No, but the defenders let him get out.

1:15:42Paul Scholes: You talk about playing your positions. You know what top defenders are supposed to do? Deal with 1v1s. You and Des Walker, he go, yeah, take me on, I've got you. Yeah, but Alvin is... And then he go, why are you spinning there? He didn't have his head up. Yes, exactly. You remember?

1:16:01Gary Neville: Another weekend, another£250 ,000 jackpot on Super 6. There's just three rounds left this season, and even if no one wins the jackpot, £10 ,000 will go to the top scorer each week. Enter the Stick to Football Mini League with code S6-STF. S6-STF. It's free to play, just predict six scores and you could become£250 ,000 richer. 18 plus, TNCs apply.

1:16:34Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup? I'm Alex Abnos. senior sports editor from The Guardian. Whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the game inside and out, we've got you covered. From one of the fastest-growing soccer newsrooms, The Guardian brings you in-depth World Cup coverage that gets into the winners and losers on and off the pitch. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective, and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S.

1:17:05national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, Try On The Ball. It's a game in the Guardian app, and it's really, really fun. And if you're into stuff like this...

1:17:13Ian Wright: Well, I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much. It's a bit too real. Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay. Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for on-the-move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. My wife won't stop talking about Jerry. Jerry. Says he saved us money on car insurance. Mine too. Found her a better rate and didn't waste her time. Who is this guy? Babe, Jerry checked again and found us an even better rate.

1:17:47Pulled 20 quotes from top insurers, showed them side by side, and helped me switch policies in the app.

1:17:53Ian Wright: It's a car insurance app. Yep. Let's just... Never happened. Do yourself a favor.

1:17:59Roy Keane: Visit jerry.ai slash acast.

1:18:05Gary Neville: This is what? Someone won it last week. Again? A million? Yeah. Jesus Christ. We just love giving away money.

1:18:13Roy Keane: Is that what they got? That's how I went to Miami. It was me. Yeah, that's what they got. Wow. Got all their scores. 3-1 Liverpool. They're going to start saying, you have to tell us who scored the goals, what minute. Obviously, I'm just telling them who scores. No, no, no. I said 1-0. Look at the West Ham one. 88 and 90 plus 2. Wow. 2-1. And then that one at nine minutes. Yeah, I... Did you say 1-0? Are you sure? I'm sure.

1:18:39Gary Neville: Did I say 1-0? You need a bit of luck. Just a minute. 90 plus 6 verts. Oh, you said 2-0.

1:18:44Roy Keane: Gary, they've got all the gold scorers as well. Oh, three.

1:18:46Paul Scholes: I don't mind being too old. Yeah, yeah.

1:18:48Ian Wright: But yeah, there you go. OK, what's happening, Ben? How we doing, baby? I'm doing very well. Good to see you. Just about Carrick, Maguire liked Carrick, didn't they? He loved him. Yeah, because he's playing every week. Yeah, because he's playing a new deal.

1:19:01Roy Keane: Which is a great...

1:19:02Paul Scholes: Oh, I saw your bit with Harry. I'm the family. Sheaven. What a wonderful family.

1:19:07Ian Wright: Have a shave with me? We'd have a shave sometime. I don't know when you're going to shave. No-one does. Is this the best a man can get? Easily.

1:19:14Roy Keane: He'll shave if he's getting peered.

1:19:16Gary Neville: I used to think, and he says not, I used to think that if he had a beard, he was in a bad mood. If he didn't have a beard, he was in a good mood.

1:19:24Ian Wright: And then you're being like... I don't like... His face is... He's just in a bad mood. He's too sinister when he's not got the beard. He's too sinister.

1:19:32Gary Neville: I don't like it. But then I realised he could get angry when he didn't have the beard. I think when you're sheer, he's like ready for a...

1:19:40Paul Scholes: You've never seen me, Andrew.

1:19:42Ian Wright: When you were the girls with Michi Picci was in. I was trying to draw him off. And on that family-friendly note... Last week, Gary and Paul, you got eight points.

1:19:53Roy Keane: I wasn't too. I've been consistent.

1:19:57Ian Wright: We got four. You got eight points. Yay!

1:20:03Roy Keane: Yes! So you closed the gap. I didn't think we were that close. Or was it used to? You missed out on... You had Liverpool Palace 2-1, and then they scored the third, didn't they? That's what it was, Dals. I had a 2-1. So there you go.

1:20:17Gary Neville: Let's go, Ben. All right, sorry, Gary. Final round of the season, we're doing double scores. Four points for the correct result and ten points. Let's be serious. Come on, Jill, not messing up. Super six wildcard, baby. Ben, you massive wanker. Oh, no, he's... Get us the thumbnail. I can't even... Yes, there we go. That would be the same. So we've literally played all season. It's like City now being able to get six points for a win. Watch rugby league. Someone gets to shield Wiggins. It's like losing them. And a nine-year-old team can beat them in the final. They've changed this. It's like your stupid Christmas quiz.

1:20:48You did the Zekker with the fucking thing. This has never happened before. What's this problem about entertainment? This has never happened before.

1:20:54Roy Keane: Gary, you know what, though? Gary, you can't be like that, Gary.

1:20:57Ian Wright: It has happened.

1:20:57Paul Scholes: It happened last year.

1:20:58Roy Keane: You can't be like that, Gary. Gary, it's mindset, because you should look at it like, we can double our points, not we're going to get caught. What a lead you could have, Gary. Ben is right, though, you are a wanker. Gary. Yes. Sunderland, Man United. You've been thrown as this episode's gone on. How long have we been here? I'm really pleased that we could get double. Carry on. All right, Sunderland, Man United, 3pm, Saturday. Me, are you guys? Sunderland. I think draw. I'll leave them. I think Sunderland's gone. We won good against them.

1:21:33Ian Wright: I'll go draw one-one. They'll have a dip after getting in the top three.

1:21:37Paul Scholes: They're having a dip. Wow!

1:21:40Ian Wright: We're going United here. I'm going to go United.

1:21:42Paul Scholes: Is that true? There's an open-down bus in Manchester next week? For United getting the Champions League. What are you thinking?

1:21:49Ian Wright: Nev's driving the bus. 2-3-1 I'm going. 2-3-1. United. 3-1. Yeah, I could see them scoring. 3-1 United. I don't know about three. Wait, wait, wait. 2-1. If they go three, they've got a chance.

1:22:04Roy Keane: Brighton Wolves.

1:22:06Paul Scholes: Saturday, 3pm. Brighton. 2-0, Brighton? Jill, 2-0? Danny Welbs. Brighton are good to watch. Yes, I like that.

1:22:14Roy Keane: Brighton, I would too.

1:22:16Ian Wright: Yeah, we'll give him 2-0. Wolves are on holidays. Inch a word, little inchy. He's going to score again. I like him. 3-0. 3-0.

1:22:22Paul Scholes: No, Brighton never scored three. Because when they're up 2-0, that's bad. Fulham, Bournemouth, Scree gem. Bournemouth are winning this. You love Bournemouth. I do love Bournemouth. No, Fulham can't beat... How bad were Fulham against Arsenal? Wow. He praised the Premier League, but their efforts were discreet. I think they'll fight back. No, but at home they'll have to bounce back, you're right.

1:22:42Roy Keane: Shall we do a draw? No, it's your goal, no? I can only draw, win or lose. I'm not giving away a big secret.

1:22:49Ian Wright: What Fulham do, they don't buy players, they don't recruit players.

1:22:53Roy Keane: I think we'll go draw.

1:22:54Ian Wright: We need to do something. No, Bournemouth are beating them. No, we're not doing nothing. Bournemouth are beating Fulham. We need to get the points. Would be Desmond down there. 2-2, could it be something crazy? Yeah.

1:23:03Paul Scholes: I think with their players, Ray...

1:23:05Roy Keane: Go on then, go for... Go on then.

1:23:07Paul Scholes: We'll all pick one each, because we're arguing too much. You go. You go next year, then I go. Bournemouth... 2-1.

1:23:14Ian Wright: 2-1, I go. 2-0. 2-0. Fulham. 2-1, Fulham.

1:23:18Roy Keane: I think I would have gone draw, you know.

1:23:21Ian Wright: You go the next one, right? City, Brentford, 5.30.

1:23:24Gary Neville: Would you like a fact? I fancy Brentford, yeah. Man City have won five of their last six matches against Brentford, drawing the other. That is such a good fact. Wow.

1:23:36Ian Wright: I thought you were going to give us...

1:23:39Roy Keane: City...

1:23:40Ian Wright: I'm going Brentford.

1:23:42Roy Keane: Really? Even though Man City have won five of their last six matches.

1:23:46Ian Wright: Go on, Gill.

1:23:46Roy Keane: I think they've been... I'm going to go 2-1 City. What would you have said? 2-0.

1:23:53Ian Wright: 2-0. No, I'd agree. No, I'd agree. Pep would be bonked. I think they'd be vexed off at the back of the line. I think City will probably. They'll have to. They'll have to, but I don't mean you will. 3.5 of the last six months. Scors, you're feeling something. Something in it, Scors. I'm feeling something. 2-2.

1:24:12Gary Neville: Joshua, let's go 2-2. That'd be good. Love that. Brilliant.

1:24:17Ian Wright: Forrest, Newcastle, Sunday, 2pm. We're winning this this week. Forrest are putting well, you know. Forrest.

1:24:23Paul Scholes: Ben, can you fix that? Forrest, if surprised, may have to say it. 2-2, girls. Goals are scoring. 2-2, do you think? Oh, that's on the back of the Ville again. Oh, the back of the Ville again. Yeah, we'll go 2-2. Newcastle. 2-2.

1:24:35Roy Keane: Forrest are doing well, though. Newcastle. Oh, but... It depends on Forrest. Well, it's got the final. Is it playing Thursday?

1:24:41Ian Wright: Yeah, but this is your...

1:24:43Roy Keane: I know, but I'm just helping you. They're playing Thursday.

1:24:46Ian Wright: They've got the... They've got the... They're going to be resting. They're going to be resting. Different kind of help. Right, come on. They're going to be resting. Ned.

1:24:54Roy Keane: Scammy, that was a bit...

1:24:56Paul Scholes: Don't pull the bear. Come on, Rye. I'm good.

1:25:02Paul Scholes: 3-1, Newcastle. 3-1, Newcastle? Yeah, I think Newcastle will throw it up. Forrest will be on the back of winning. You've got Ian Wright, Derby. Do you want to factor this as well? Yeah. Arsenal have won on their last two visits to the London Stadium by an aggregate of 13-2. Wow! Wow! You were crying over here at West Ham. League's over. I wasn't crying at West Ham.

1:25:22Ian Wright: Am I saying no?

1:25:23Roy Keane: I know, they've already given it to someone else. Are you going to it?

1:25:25Ian Wright: No, I'm not going, no.

1:25:26Roy Keane: I am writing.

1:25:27Ian Wright: Are you going?

1:25:28Roy Keane: What, are you doing this game? I don't know. Are you doing it?

1:25:32Ian Wright: No, no, no.

1:25:33Roy Keane: This is because you haven't met your Mountie games, have you? So you've got to get them all in now.

1:25:37Ian Wright: I'm going to go...

1:25:39Roy Keane: Are you working Saturday, Sunday?

1:25:41Gary Neville: I work every day.

1:25:41Ian Wright: 3-1 Arsenal.

1:25:43Gary Neville: This guy should take me off it, really. because Salford played Grimsby in the playoff final on Sunday, but I've not mentioned it to him.

1:25:49Ian Wright: Gary, did you complain to authorities about that penalty decision? Three o 'clock. What you lot didn't get? I've not complained. I'm going to go to the final. That is as bad as it gets.

1:26:00Gary Neville: Come on, Gary. Grimsby again. Arsenal win, don't you go? Go on, you go.

1:26:06Ian Wright: Scolesy, why are you not...

1:26:07Gary Neville: I'm going to go. It's going to be tight. I'm going to go 2-1 to Arsenal. 2-1 to Arsenal. Well done, Ben. No, well done, everyone. Right. Nice one, Ben. Let's go. Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. We've got an interesting section to finish, and it's called the Alternative Awards. Mm. And this is the first time I'm looking at them. As we're near the end of the season, let's go round the table. And these are the categories. We're going to start with who are the overachievers? Do you want me to go first or are you going to go first? Brentford. Brentford would be one. Brentford for me, because I thought they could get that.

1:26:46Gary Neville: I thought they might be teetering near the bottom.

1:26:48Ian Wright: They were going to go down. But I had them... Yeah, but they lost their manager, they lost their captain, they lost Visser, they lost it in Buermo. I think Brentford.

1:26:55Roy Keane: Didn't Sunderland get a shout? Sunderland. Everyone thought they'd get... Leeds?

1:27:00Gary Neville: They've gone. I'm saying Brentford. I'm going to go Brentford. I'm saying Brentford. Can't say fucking Leeds.

1:27:05Roy Keane: I'm going Sunderland. Everyone thought Sunderland were going to get relegated.

1:27:10Paul Scholes: Keith's manager of the year. We've stayed up. I can't believe he's not mentioned for the United job. Roy? You don't want to say Brentford. I'm going to say Sunderland.

1:27:22Roy Keane: Yes, Roy.

1:27:23Paul Scholes: I'm going to say Sunderland.

1:27:24Roy Keane: It's the first time we've read all year.

1:27:26Gary Neville: To get promoted. OK, so Brentford have won the first alternate award. Congratulations, Brentford. A 3v2 vote.

1:27:33Ian Wright: Yeah.

1:27:34Gary Neville: The overachievers of the season are Brentford. Why don't we wait for them? Well done, Brentford. OK, the next one. The natural contradiction to that is the underachievers of the season.

1:27:43Roy Keane: Tottenham.

1:27:44Gary Neville: Tottenham. Tottenham. I mean, who else would come into that category? Chelsea, very disappointing. Liverpool. Chelsea. Liverpool. Yeah, Liverpool. I'm going Liverpool. Yeah, Liverpool, very disappointing. Bad, but Liverpool.

1:27:58Roy Keane: Yeah, but still going to get Champions League. They're going to finish in fourth. That's nearly 20 games. You can't. I'm going Tottenham. I'm going Tottenham. Liverpool.

1:28:06Paul Scholes: Tottenham. Spurs, you're hard to disagree with that. Spurs? If you don't have a stand-up. What are you saying, Jill?

1:28:12Ian Wright: They were against Villa. Gallagher and that Polina was unbelievable. Energy. A bit of energy. Unbelievable it was. There's no way they're going down with them two.

1:28:23Gary Neville: OK. I think, to be fair, this could be the same answer again. What it will do, the biggest disappointment of the season, and I'm going to say a player and a club. Tottenham are the biggest disappointment, would you say?

1:28:35Roy Keane: Oh, it's harsh.

1:28:36Paul Scholes: Liverpool would probably be the biggest disappointment. Liverpool, Virts. Liverpool, disappointing. Chelsea at the moment. I think Chelsea are awful. Wow. Liverpool come as champions. Imagine being in that dressing room when I'm Chelsea, that group of players. Gosh.

1:28:50Gary Neville: And what, you need a player as well? You could even face that. I don't want this to be a sort of slate in a player, but a player that you think maybe you were expecting like this from and you got maybe this. Liverpool, Virts. That's my answer. I think he's that probably because of just how it's not. He's been injured. I get it, but it's still 140 odd million.

1:29:07Paul Scholes: Verts comes into that category. I agree. Do you not take it into them, trying to settle into the club and judge them next year? Maybe.

1:29:15Ian Wright: Can we just do the club, not the players? It's not nice. I've already done it. Yeah, but you said...

1:29:20Roy Keane: They can edit it out.

1:29:21Ian Wright: I'm going to... Should we just do a team?

1:29:24Gary Neville: The team, I would say, it falls into that underachievers type thing, doesn't it? Biggest disappointment. I'll tell you what, other than Tottenham, who would it be? It would probably be Chelsea for me. Chelsea. Chelsea and Liverpool are disappointed.

1:29:38Roy Keane: I can't go Chelsea because I said they'd win the league.

1:29:41Gary Neville: OK, the most improved team. You could say Manchester United come into that, finishing 15th last season, going to finish potentially third. I'm thinking he's sniggering over that. You just know there's a bomb coming.

1:29:57Roy Keane: I've liked them watching fighting.

1:29:58Gary Neville: I'm a bit wary when a team was so bad last year, then you're giving them credit for finishing the championship. The category is most improved.

1:30:05Roy Keane: Where did Brighton finish last season?

1:30:09Gary Neville: Where did Brighton finish last season? It's amazing where Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth always end up. Brighton finished 8th last season, so not too far away.

1:30:18Roy Keane: Yeah, but not on PlaySense, but I have liked watching them this year.

1:30:21Gary Neville: I think Sunderland could come into that from being in the Championship and being where they are now. And then Leeds probably could come into that. Oh, you've got to give the two teams who've stood up.

1:30:29Paul Scholes: We see the stats from the last few years. to promote the teams and we said at the start could two of them stay up.

1:30:34Gary Neville: I wouldn't be too far away from Sunderland and Leeds because I think...

1:30:38Ian Wright: Absolutely, you know what that Farker has done well against his comeback, you have to give him something man, that man's gone there, he's gone left to come back and now they're actually here and they look like that.

1:30:47Gary Neville: I think to play in the Championship and stay in the Premier League is becoming a massive jump. Yeah, I think he's done well Farker's. Sunderland or Leeds? Should we go for both of them together? Join, join. Sunderland and Leeds. Six months each, they're going to have a camp. I don't know what this means, but I do, but I just don't know where we're going to... Seven stabbed two before. Yeah. Comeback player of the season. Comeback?

1:31:09Roy Keane: What, as in they've been injured?

1:31:11Gary Neville: Comeback player. Xhaka could be a good one. You mean from injury or...? It just says comeback player of the season, there's no explanation. That's why I said I'm not quite sure what it means. Alain Maguire? Yeah, maybe. Harry Maguire.

1:31:22Roy Keane: But come back from what? That's amazing.

1:31:25Gary Neville: Yeah, Harry Maguire. Come back from injury, come back from anything. Come back. someone who's come back no but you have to visualise

1:31:31Paul Scholes: you're visualising Harry in the World Cup where in a tight game or a group game they're chasing a goal and someone's running at him 1v1 do you ever visualise that in your heads any of you yeah because you keep saying I know

1:31:42Gary Neville: he's done well for England though Bobby Mayneau I tell you what Roy what I'll say about Harry for England no no what I'll say about Harry for England is that he sits into me the sort of Jordan Pickford category I was never sure about Jordan Pickford but then I see them play for England by the way and they're so bloody consistent for their countries they are absolutely unbelievably consistent for their countries. They punch well above their weight of what you think they're going to do.

1:32:02Ian Wright: Harry's going, isn't he? He's definitely going. Yeah. Absolutely.

1:32:06Roy Keane: Yeah, I'm going to go Kobi Maynou.

1:32:08Ian Wright: That's a good one.

1:32:09Roy Keane: Thank you, Gary.

1:32:11Ian Wright: She's back. Kobi Maynou. Because you look like you're falling asleep on there, Joe. Rodri, probably, if he was still fit. No, no, no. Kobi Maynou. Kobi Maynou, yes.

1:32:20Roy Keane: These players, though, who've come back...

1:32:22Gary Neville: Yeah, come back from injury or come back from somewhere. They've nearly got Kobi out the club.

1:32:26Ian Wright: I go Kobe Maynou. He's gone out of the club. Listen, man, the way Amerim was with him.

1:32:31Roy Keane: If Amerim had his way, he leaves.

1:32:34Ian Wright: He would have gone. Remember, he probably even had the T-shirt on to free him. He was in prison.

1:32:38Gary Neville: Do you know something, righty? I have to say, I said this earlier on the season. When Amerim said it's either him or Bruno in the team, he did kill him. I know we argued about this. He killed him. He basically said that Bruno doesn't play every single week. Of course he is. And he never played him. No. Play him one game. Kobe Maynou.

1:32:56Ian Wright: Cobby Manu, to be fair, I do think is the comeback of the season. I think the T-shirt is what really cemented it for everybody. Free him. You'll see everyone's siblings in T-shirts now.

1:33:06Roy Keane: Look at how free he is now.

1:33:10Ian Wright: What has he got, Gal?

1:33:11Paul Scholes: Cobby. Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that. Game of the season.

1:33:17Roy Keane: PSG, Bayern, or you mean Premier League?

1:33:19Gary Neville: Can I be honest? Premier League. Was United Bournemouth 4-0? Yeah, it wasn't that one, though. I was there. It wasn't that great.

1:33:26Roy Keane: I really enjoyed the City-Arsenal game.

1:33:29Gary Neville: 2-1.

1:33:30Roy Keane: I really enjoyed it, yeah. Tension. I did, I just think everything riding on the game.

1:33:35Ian Wright: Any game suggestions, anybody? I liked the game the other night with City and Everton. That was good. City-Everton. You know what, just watching the game when you're just, obviously a team that... But it just made me feel, I just felt something in my stomach.

1:33:46Gary Neville: Do you know something, righty? That second half could be the defining half of the season.

1:33:50Ian Wright: Did you see their faces? Their faces.

1:33:51Gary Neville: Yeah, yeah. It was Pep's face. It's Pep's face, like, his eyes just like...

1:33:56Ian Wright: There was one I was going to take a picture of the TV, cos Pep's face, he was just looking into nothing, like, looking in. I said, maybe I should take a picture of that.

1:34:03Gary Neville: I think I'd go City-Everton, by the way. That was a monumental match.

1:34:08Ian Wright: It was a very, very good game. You have to really search your brain for it, cos, like...

1:34:13Gary Neville: 3-1, City fans walking out, then they score, then they come back in.

1:34:17Ian Wright: And then they come back, sum them up. Bob, I'll... Sum them up. Actually, the team's still in it. The team's still in it. Do you think that's wrong to walk out?

1:34:26Gary Neville: You know what? The Bachelor Arsenal fans walking out when United were beating.

1:34:30Ian Wright: No, they weren't. Even if I saw it, I would still say, no, they're not walking out. The City fans are actually turning back, smiling. Do you think it's right to leave again early if you're supporting your team? I think if you're winning, you can leave. No, because you're not supporting your team.

1:34:45Roy Keane: You shouldn't be leaving like that.

1:34:46Ian Wright: Some of the fans like leaving early at home.

1:34:48Paul Scholes: No. You can't leave those players. Forest, it was a forest. Did Forest come up the sun a few weeks ago?

1:34:54Roy Keane: They don't leave, they just go for a drink and come back.

1:34:58Gary Neville: I must admit that if you don't leave... It's nice to leave early, I don't know. Only if you're winning. If you don't leave Old Trafford five minutes early, you're there for about an hour and a half after...

1:35:07Ian Wright: City fans were leaving in disgust. You know what I mean? It's different when you're leaving because, you know, I've got to go and do... But when you're leaving in disgust, when you're 3-1 down...

1:35:15Paul Scholes: Sometimes you show fans leaving, they might be just going to the toilet.

1:35:17Ian Wright: Yeah, I think... What, 50 of them? Yeah, 50, yeah.

1:35:20Gary Neville: You've got to go, you've got to go. 50 out of injury time. OK, game of the season. I'll go City Everton to fair. Thank you. Thank you.

1:35:28Roy Keane: Well, yeah.

1:35:29Gary Neville: OK. Turning point of the season. Do you know how many go turning point of the season? It sticks in my mind. OK, because I did the games. I was going to Ellum Road, I think it was like October, November, and there was massive, massive noise. It was almost like the writing was on the wall for Farker. he was getting sacked that week. They played City on the Saturday. Chelsea, no? They were playing Chelsea on the Wednesday night and they were playing Liverpool on the Saturday. So I basically was going to the Chelsea game. If he loses, he's gone. He's probably here. He's done. And they literally beat Chelsea and then they came back against Liverpool to draw.

1:36:03Gary Neville: I think that, for me, knowing a manager, you could see him before, like I thought, he's like a dead man walking, it's horrible. And you see a manager like that. And that's the turnaround for me from that was like for Leeds.

1:36:12Paul Scholes: That's the challenge for any manager. You go through difficult stages, we see big men surviving. Just getting through them a couple of weeks and managers, including the David Moyes who've been around for a donkey's years. They get through periods where they grind the result out and their careers aren't.

1:36:26Gary Neville: And then the only other one to compete with that is Michael Carrick. And that's the City and Arsenal games. The turnaround from the Amarillo and Darren Fletcher two matches to that.

1:36:36Ian Wright: Because you're playing Arsenal and City and you're thinking... They were great games though from right now.

1:36:41Paul Scholes: Neff, they're perfect games. Roy, it could go badly wrong. Nobody gets beaten. They go, well, they've been struggling anyway. If he wins, they're the perfect games. I don't think anyone going into that thought he was going to win. I said at the time that you couldn't pick two better games. I'm telling you. OK, turning point, though. Wow.

1:36:54Gary Neville: I think the Leeds and the Man United ones.

1:36:56Paul Scholes: Yeah. Any others?

1:36:58Gary Neville: Any others? I don't know if you beat them. I can't remember.

1:37:01Paul Scholes: What was this, Sammy?

1:37:02Gary Neville: The turning point of the season for a club. I think Leeds or Man United are the two I've seen.

1:37:06Roy Keane: I think Man United, yeah. It's been a massive turning point.

1:37:09Ian Wright: Yeah, I'm going to go Man United because I know Roy's not keen on us going to Man United.

1:37:12Roy Keane: Pardon the pun. Roy's not keen.

1:37:14Ian Wright: He's not keen. You like what I do. Scolzi?

1:37:17Gary Neville: They were good games.

1:37:18Ian Wright: They were good games.

1:37:19Gary Neville: Absolutely. Manus United or Leeds United? The two I've put forward. Yeah, probably. I'm going to go Leeds. I'm going to go Leeds. When you talk about saving each other, I've got Leeds. I've got Manus United, I think.

1:37:29Ian Wright: Card, you just went Leeds. You started with Leeds. No, I'd give you two. He's done everything for United, so it's all right. It's true. I'll give you two. We're going offensive. Us three are going Leeds. Leeds?

1:37:39Roy Keane: United.

1:37:40Gary Neville: Man United or Leeds United? Man United. Man United it is, turning point. The worst VAR decision of the season, I thought to be fair, this is not Premier League, but the Champions League one, the handball, last week. What about the West Ham one last week? Who was that against? United's last week. He went round him and punched the ball in his hand.

1:38:04Roy Keane: That was handball. Sesco's goal? I thought that was handball. Sesko's goal, yeah, fucking hell, last week. He just couldn't get this level goal for it.

1:38:12Ian Wright: You know what? Did it touch? It touched his hand. It just touched the edge of his fingers, he's like, scraped.

1:38:19Gary Neville: But that's not the worst VAR decision of the season. Which one? In the Champions League, that handball one...

1:38:25Ian Wright: The one when he was round like that?

1:38:25Gary Neville: No, the handball one. The handball one's in the... Was it Arsenal? What about Eze's penalty last week? Eze's one. How's that not a penalty? Oh, Eze's penalty. In Athletic Go.

1:38:35Roy Keane: That was a bad one. At the beginning of the season, not bad.

1:38:37Paul Scholes: Arsenal had so much luck as well.

1:38:39Ian Wright: Don't give me that. You need a bit of luck. Don't.

1:38:42Gary Neville: Even last night. That was a pen. Where's V.I.A. on in the Premier League? Let's not go Premier League. Let's go Champions League. I think there was one at the beginning, but I can't remember. I'm moving on from here because we can't think of anything. OK, the club in the biggest trouble for next season? Chelsea. Chelsea. I don't think they know where they're going. Chelsea.

1:39:02Paul Scholes: Yeah.

1:39:03Gary Neville: I don't think they know where they're going. Chelsea.

1:39:04Paul Scholes: Good question.

1:39:09Erm...

1:39:10Ian Wright: No, I'm going to... Chelsea, surely we'll get the racket.

1:39:12Roy Keane: Pensu gets relegated as well, doesn't it?

1:39:14Ian Wright: But, like, at the moment, with Chelsea, look what's going on with Chelsea. Chelsea.

1:39:20Roy Keane: Yeah, I'll go Chelsea.

1:39:21Ian Wright: Chelsea, yeah. OK. I can see a slide with Chelsea.

1:39:26Gary Neville: One word to sum up this season.

1:39:31Paul Scholes: Rollercoaster. You could argue the comeback of... It's got to be rollercoaster. Oh, Ronan, what's the song? Two words, innit?

1:39:36Roy Keane: Life is a roller coaster, just gotta ride it all night long. I don't know that song.

1:39:42Ian Wright: Who sings it? You know what? You normally sing when you're on your mini, don't you? Yeah, but it's on my playlist, it's random.

1:39:49Roy Keane: You know what, I've had a bit of a nightmare tonight. So I'm at a concert instead of the PSG Bayern game. I'm going to see Nio tonight and obviously it's the biggest game of the season, innit? I know.

1:39:59Paul Scholes: You're missing the game for that. That sums you up, you know, I love football, aren't you? No, you don't know.

1:40:03Roy Keane: I know, but I love Nio and Acon. What, what, have you loved football? Yeah, but I didn't look ahead. I got the tickets eight years ago. Right, until the ticket we missed United Chelsea

1:40:10Gary Neville: where we went to James.

1:40:12Roy Keane: I know, you said, there you go.

1:40:14Gary Neville: This is a bigger game. Come on, Gary, say that out loud.

1:40:16Roy Keane: This is the best thing I've ever seen.

1:40:17Paul Scholes: Because I've recorded it. This is a bigger game.

1:40:19Roy Keane: No, you always say, if you've made plans, if you've made plans, don't change them.

1:40:25Paul Scholes: Yeah, but you must know in your diary, did the Champions League semi-finales.

1:40:28Roy Keane: Yeah, but I didn't write down Champions League semi-final in my diary. I'm not playing.

1:40:32Ian Wright: You know, with that game, one word just about this season.

1:40:37Paul Scholes: Disappointing? Jill's on about concerts. I was at a concert last week. Jill was at the concert. Where are you? And I told her where I was sitting. I heard from her like three days later. She never came around. We're like 100 yards from her. She couldn't be bothered coming.

1:40:49Roy Keane: No, it was, you know, the co-op arena. He was the other side in a box. I was just in general seating. And he was like, come and see us. I was like, how fly are you?

1:41:01Paul Scholes: No, you got in touch with me.

1:41:03Roy Keane: Yeah, I said, I hope you have a nice night.

1:41:05Paul Scholes: What box are you in? And usually Jill messaged me every 10 minutes, going, are you going to the toilet? What are you doing? And she knows what I'm saying. Three days later, she went, I couldn't get across the sea. I was busy. Stop bothering me, then. She couldn't bother coming round. It wasn't coming round. It was like, to walk home with... How small is that co-op? You can just walk around it, don't you? Isn't it small? Yeah, what's the question? She would have come round last year, but no, this year.

1:41:31Gary Neville: Anyway, I thought you might come up with a word that wasn't necessarily positive in terms of... He might have said disappointed. Yeah, disappointed. He said disappointed. In terms of Premier League? Yeah.

1:41:42Roy Keane: Competitive.

1:41:42Ian Wright: No, it's been rollercoaster. I'm just a kid. Rollercoaster. You know, but the players can remember the best game of the season. Huh? The players can remember the best game of the season, could you?

1:41:50Roy Keane: I know, but that's because we're all getting old, I think. It's disappointing.

1:41:53Gary Neville: I think competitive is a good one. I think rollercoaster is a good one. Thank you. I think particularly the Arsenal story this season of the Tottenham relegation. Rollercoaster. How much is that, though? That's a sentence And on that note, we're finished Oh come on, you're making out of it for Nev Okay now

1:42:21Immersing yourself in all things soccer Ahead of this summer's World Cup I'm Alex Abnos, senior sports editor from The Guardian Whether you're a soccer beginner Or you know the game inside and out we've got you covered. From one of the fastest growing soccer newsrooms, The Guardian brings you in-depth World Cup coverage that gets into the winners and losers on and off the pitch. Read, watch, and listen as our journalists connect the dots between the games, the cultures, and this political moment. We'll have daily newsletters throughout the tournament, a global perspective, and a squad of Americans, including me, on the ground with the U.S.

1:42:52national team. Plus, if you want to test your soccer knowledge, try On The Ball. It's a game in the Guardian app, and it's really, really fun. And if you're into stuff like this...

1:43:00Ian Wright: Well, I think the problem is if you give footballers an inch, they will take a mile. Is it too much when it's this close? It's a bit much. It's a bit too real. Maybe you could just talk with a slight delay. Be sure to listen to our Football Weekly podcast for on-the-move expert analysis. The Guardian, bringing you the whole picture on soccer. Search Guardian Soccer for more. You don't need a passport to taste the world's most luxurious beef. Just head to Benihana. Introducing the Wagyu of the World menu. From the rich flavor of American masami ribeye to the bold Australian New York strip to the legendary melt-in-your-mouth A5 Japanese Wagyu, this is the finest beef on the planet, expertly grilled right at your table.

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