Bruno Calls Roy, England's Chances & World Cup Concerns | Stick to Football EP 132

0:00Gary Neville: Just before we get started, a quick thanks to our partners on clothing. We hope you enjoy the show. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over$900 on average. Pop over to Progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99 % of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company & Affiliates. National average 12-month savings by$946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025.

0:42Potential savings will vary. A BetterHelp ad. Hold on. One second. Mommy! I just need to...

0:55What if you had a room where no one interrupts? No notifications. No expectations. Just space to talk. With BetterHelp, therapy happens in a space that's yours. Visit betterhelp.com slash randompodcast for 10 % off your first month of online therapy. Here's a tip for you. There's a podcast out there with fans waiting to be your next customer. They tune in every week. They trust the host. And that host wants to talk about brands like yours in their own words to their audience. The problem is you just haven't been introduced yet. We're Acast, where that introduction happens. As the world's largest podcast marketplace, we let you browse shows, see who's listening, and book host-read sponsorships or run your own ads all from one platform.

1:45Transparent pricing, real-time data, complete control. Start advertising on podcasts by visiting acast.com slash advertise.

1:57Gary Neville: So welcome to Stick to Football, World Cup Edition brought to you by Skybet. And to be fair, I'm just going to make something up at the very start of the show because there are 48 teams in this tournament and I want to know how many of the 48 you three can name. I knew that was coming. That comes from the fact that basically I think Arfus said before we came, We don't have a lot of clues in this tournament. Anyway, let's go for it. You've got... Bosnia-Herzeghina. Give me a pen or something. Yeah, of course. Sorry, I need to prepare. Give me a pen, please. We're starting now. Bosnia-Herzeghina.

2:32Kura-Kura-Kura. Kura-Kura. Egypt. South Africa. Ivory Coast. Scotland. Portugal. Canada. Senegal. Saudi Arabia. Algeria. Jamie's looking at them. How are you looking at them? I'm not... Who knows in the World Cup? Honestly. Oh, my God. Morocco. Ecuador. Morocco. Let's start again. No, we've said about 20. We've just done 20-odd.

2:59Gary Neville: South Africa, yeah. You said, you said, you said, Bosnia and Covina, you said, Krakow, France, Norway, Croatia, South Africa, Netherlands, Morocco, England, Ivory Coast, Scotland, Canada, USA, Brazil, Argentina. I'm not Belgium, Saudi Arabia. I do know he's in the World Cup. Move over there, that's better. Cheers, I can see it better now. Oh, he's got the fucking... LAUGHTER

3:31Gary Neville: Chancer. Honestly. Anyway, let's start the show again. It was a false start, that. Fucking ridiculous.

3:45Gary Neville: Bruno last week, Roy, said that he wanted to speak to you. Have you had a chat with him or what? Did you have a chat with Bruno? He reached out to me, he wanted to chat. And do you know what? I did. I'm worried about the defence. For England to do well in this tournament, Anderson and Rice are going to have to be absolutely world-class in that midfield. You need players who are amazing at a position. Not at Jack of All trades. You need players who are masters of their position. I just still took Cole Palmer. You need that bit of class in a big moment to do something. If you're a player and you've not made a 26, I think it's on you.

4:15His balls are on the... They're ready to be smashed. They're on the table. And you'll smash them. That's what I love about him, because he's gone, you know what, I'm doing that. This idea that everyone's happy-clappy because we're all together and a 26 of us, you want a bit of an edge.

4:30Gary Neville: Par is quarter, I think, for England. Birdie is semi-final. Eagle is final. Albatross is winning. We talk about holding one on the par four. You get fouled, and then for a minute, the opposition should have got an advantage. It can't be right. Just get them off and get them back on. Which country will surprise us? Japan. You've got them going out, aren't they? Second round. No, no, but they surprise us up to that point.

5:00Gary Neville: Right, OK, what are we most and least looking forward to about this World Cup? and we'll start with what we're most looking forward to. You mean the package, the football or everything? What are you most looking forward to? You know, once it gets going, because everything was happening around it, at the moment it's always a negative going in, all the narrative going in, but once the football starts, you know what I mean, that's what I'm looking forward to, especially with the heat. Because we're talking about heat that we're not seeing before in respect to what's going on and how the world's heated up since 2014 when they brought in the hydration breaks.

5:36Obviously they had to change Qatar, change it to the winter. But I think that this one we're going to see so much. It's going to be so different. Especially in the way as well where the tactics. How you going to play in that heat? You know, we're talking about like the sweat and the sweat not actually coming out. With the humidity and the heat. Because the heat's going to play a major part in this.

6:00Gary Neville: Well, you know this because you played in 94. I was going to ask this later on, but it feels like the right moment. You played in searing heat. I think it's going to be worse. Was it a struggle? Yeah, huge. Particularly for Ireland when you look back. I'm guessing the preparation would be a lot better with sports science. But I think the conditions would be harder than we had. We obviously struggled to keep the ball with Ireland, the way we played. We played two games in Orlando, two games in New York. Yeah. It's going to be a challenge. I think you can do all the preparation and obviously get the best advice you can.

6:36But it's going to be a challenge for those players. You have to be smart with the breaks. There's obviously more water breaks. Will that be a big help to them? Maybe. When you make the substitutions, that type of scenario, there's bigger squads. But yeah, I think there's no way around it. There's going to be a challenge for these players. And the coaches. Coaches, officials, supporters. Even when we were over there, my mum and dad didn't see any games. They were under the stand. They couldn't sit outside. It was just too hot. Some shade. No, the 20 pints the night before. But yeah, it's going to be...

7:05I'm not looking forward to the group stage. I almost want to get to the knockout stage as quick as possible. It's just so many games. I think almost... Is it the top three of most of the groups can go through?

7:15Gary Neville: Yeah, eight of the... So how much is going to be riding on a lot of the games? I almost want to get to the knockout stage. I can't say I'm... There's four games a day in some days, isn't there? Yeah, four games a day, yeah. I mean, I love football. But, James, that's where we see... Because it's a bigger tournament, that's where we see those teams who are just coming in for the first time. That's where they make their kind of stand. You know what I mean? That's what I love about it, the fact that these countries, like Karakau, Uzbekistan, you know, Cape Verde, it's the first time that they're going to get there, man.

7:46I know it's 48 and people are saying, oh, there's so many, but this is brilliant for them and their countries

7:50Gary Neville: just to be there. Do you know something? Some of these countries you mentioned, you just mentioned the Heat, they're going to be better equipped at dealing with it, some of them, with the Heat, than obviously European teams. And there might be interruptions with the games and lightning. We saw that. Was it the World Club Championship last year? So I think it's going to be challenging for TV companies, for pundits. You have to be ready for the unexpected. Is every game having a break? Oh, yeah. There's definitely going to be water breaks, yeah. I went to watch Inter Malme in a... It had been now three years ago when Phil was there as coach and the game got stopped for an hour and 20 minutes.

8:24Gary Neville: Literally after like 30 minutes, it got stopped. We had to finish at 11.30 at night. And that's going to happen in the games. Yeah. What are you looking forward to? Do you know something? You said the group games. I'm looking at it from a point of view that I'm going to be in New York for five weeks. I actually think sometimes when the group games finish, it gets a little bit sad. Because when you're in the cities, when all the fans are over there, it's like a carnival, isn't it? In Moscow, Doha was the same. It's like a carnival for the first two weeks when you've got 48 teams fans everywhere.

8:51Gary Neville: There's colour everywhere, fans from everywhere. And obviously when a lot of them get knocked out, you end up then going down to like it being a game every three or four days or whatever it is, it's like, just lose a little bit. So I actually love the group phase. I'll take that back then. It's always just the start, you want to see who's going to be the surprise package. But you must be intrigued by how England are going to do. Yeah. Like England are straight into it against the first game. It's a big game. Obviously if you want to top the group, there's no messing about. you don't have a couple of games to go let's get used to the conditions like no Croatia you're straight into it I am fascinated by England I'm looking forward to seeing I'm at look I think it's just because when you see England go to a tournament you're always thinking how they're gonna do and you're always like intrigued how are they gonna do and but we'll come on to that shortly what are you least looking forward to do you know what I'm trying to be really positive about this needs to even you're about going away for us in New York what five weeks together I think it's five and a half week five and a half weeks how we We all cope with each other and the challenges of all that stuff, being away from the family.

9:53You do it alone, don't you? Is it challenging? I mean, how do you get your gear over? Your gear? What you got to wear? I mean, five weeks. Two back. We got an email the other day, you must have got the same email, about how much luggage we can take. And I think they've said we can bring five cases. What? Did you not get... I've got two cases. I mean, five. Five. It was, we know somebody who's definitely bringing five. LAUGHTER That's just his hats. That's his hat. I need clothes to wear and clothes to the... Of course. I'm bringing literally one case. One case. I don't even have that much clothes for six.

10:29You can buy clothes over there. We can buy a bit of linen. That's what I'm telling you. We need some linen. Something that's going to float on us. I'm looking forward to all that stuff. Being in Brooklyn, embracing America. The High Line. We're going to go to see the Yankees. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to go and see New York, Liberty. I'm going to watch some basketball. I'm going to watch some golf. I can't judge. Yeah, I'm going to do... A little bit of football. You probably have to watch football. I'm going to do everything. I'm just going to make it like a... I'm going to go and it's going to be like a home from home.

10:58I'm just going to go and get right amongst it. I'm going to try and do that as well, honestly. Yeah. Let's go to a jazz club, man. Let's see. Just go and see. Yeah, jazz club sounds good, yeah. Yeah, let's go and see a cheeky little jazz club. We could just walk about, just ease in. You know what I mean? I might get my jazz flute out. I've got my harmonica. We can do a bit.

11:14Gary Neville: Roy's got a little club membership now, right? Yeah, so a house now. It's not confirmed yet. No, he's in. He's not confirmed yet. He knows he's got it. He's got it now. It's not. Not yet. Set me up for a fall. No, no, no, no. Kerry, you're going to be at home for like two or three weeks. Are you just going to watch them on telly? They're late at night, aren't they? I'm just sure, yeah. I'd seen one of the England games at 9 o 'clock and one's 10 o 'clock. And I just watch the games. But I haven't booked holidays or places thinking, oh, this was the World Cup or that or England games or nothing like that.

11:49It's a little footy. I'll watch it when I'm about and watching it. But I'm going over for the final. Would you ever go for an England game in a bar or anything? Never. Always at home. In a bar? I'd never put something like that if it was a semi-final. You'd go out and you'd join in, yeah? I'd go for the social, not so much for football. No, the England games, they're the ones I'll know what are on and I'll work around the other games. But I just think there's that many in the group stages. I used to love... When we were younger, the World Cup was on. I used to love the fact that it was on late at night.

12:20It was different, it was brilliant. I loved it. I loved that about it. Obviously, the one in Qatar was magnificent because obviously the timing and everything, how easy they made it for the fans, with the transport, with the ticket. If you had a ticket, you'd get a visa. You know, the proximity of the state. It was... Qatar was magnificent. It was a magnificent World Cup. And then that final, it was the best game I've ever seen. Are you still in the England games? ITV? I think we might...

12:46Gary Neville: We've got Panama, haven't we? ITV will have the Croatia game and the Panama game, which is the first and the third, which... Yeah, the first one's a big one. Huge. If they want to top the group, yeah. The main thing is not to lose that first one. I think we can win something. I think four points gets you through. Yeah. You know what I mean? As long as we just ease in nice, you know, no stupidness. And 48 teams? Right, so you seem to like it. What do you think 48 teams? I just think, isn't that fine? But when you think of, I think probably when I was younger as a kid, the European Championships, the first Euros I watched, I think, was 88.

13:24I think there was only eight teams, innit? And that's obviously grew as a tournament, I get that. The World Cup, I don't know originally what it started with. but it almost feels like rather than being the pinnacle of football or the absolute like the best football it's almost like a festival of football isn't it for the world it's not necessarily the best countries or all the best players I suppose it's just like it's for the world football isn't it the thing is football well that's fine that's the way it's going it's not just you can't then if you talk to me about maybe I suppose the Champions League is like that now when the group stage but but yeah It's almost like this football, this is for the world.

14:03It is. And that's what it should be. It should be for everyone. Everyone should have the opportunity to have that inspiring moment for their fellow countrymen. That's what I feel. You look at... You can look at even what Morocco has done with the fact that they've participated in the World Cup. They've done well in the World Cup, what they've done for their infrastructure, the way they've built up, and then getting to the semi-finals. They've kicked on. And that's what the World Cup's about, giving people the opportunity to get in, and get that experience to try and go again, inspire people. And that's why I like it, girl.

14:32I love it. I know there's a lot of football. Of course there is. From a professional point of view, the knock-off games are better at it. Yeah. They are more enjoyable, because obviously there's a bit of jeopardy involved. Some of the group games... You want those games where those so-called minnow countries are playing against it, because if they can beat them or give them...

14:50Gary Neville: Argentina in the last World Cup. Yeah, yeah. Saudi. You know what I mean? It was like an unbelievable... It was amazing. And when they'd done that, When they've done that, then all of a sudden Argentina, they realise they've got to kick into top gear. Every game was like a knockout game for them. And then they just, boom. The bigger teams can recover from a setback. If you lose your first game, it is obviously a long way back. But the big teams can recover. I think it's up to the Mino teams to really have a go. So then you can keep getting the chance for other teams to get that chance to play in the World Cup.

15:20Everybody should.

15:21Gary Neville: The cynic says it's all about money. It's extended to five and a half weeks, 104 matches. It's just about money. But actually, I think there is an element of the World Cup. If you can never get to a World Cup as a country because of the fact there's only, say, 24 teams, it is a problem. You're not developing the world. Yeah, you're not developing the world of football. I am coming down on the side of... I don't think it should probably go any more now. I think we've probably hit the limit. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I think so. Maybe, Gal, but the thing is that it's a lot. but I think it's necessary.

15:57Yeah, but you also, well, we'll see, obviously, in a few weeks, but you don't want teams getting them really embarrassed either, right? You want to be able to compete. I remember when it... Some of these teams will be able to compete. You don't want to get embarrassed either over there, do you? When I was young, I think it might have been the 74 World Cup, someone lost 9-0 or something, Yugoslavia. Someone lost like that and I was like, wow, someone lost that.

16:14Gary Neville: Like Cape Verde, Caracau, Jordan's first tournament, first ever World Cup. Uzbekistan as well. Uzbekistan. I was thinking more Scotland. You know, the thing is, yeah, but we've got to give Scotland some love. I know we do, Ian, of course. You know what I mean? It's called a joke. I know. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. We've got some rule changes that are coming in for the World Cup. I'm going to read each one out. And then, basically, you can tell me whether we like it or not. So, a throwing countdown is going to be five seconds. If a player deliberately delays the restart of a play, the throw can be given to the opposition.

16:49Is that once he's got the ball in his hand?

16:51Gary Neville: I think so, yeah. So then you can just stand with the ball there for a bit. Do you know what I get the feeling is, though, with referees in tournaments, they're so well drilled, they'll do that briefing with the players before the tournament. I mean, you'll know, before a tournament, a referee comes in to each camp and gives a briefing. That happens before every single tournament. They will say to them, if you walk towards the ball... That's it. I'm sure they'll say to them, we'll be on to you, it'll be harsh. And they are really quite drilled, particularly in the early parts of a tournament. What was the story?

17:20Gary Neville: What did you say? So basically, I think it is, if a player deliberately delays the restart of play, the throw can be given to the opposition. So a throwing countdown's been introduced of five seconds. I'm massively up for that. I tell you, that's one, we've mentioned it, I don't know how many times in the Premier League this season, the amount of time that's been taken over throws. What it means is the centre-halves, if they want to come up, are going to have to sprint up, they're going to have to go over to the ball and they're going to have to get it in within five seconds. So you're not going to be able to start the game.

17:43Gary Neville: That seems short, doesn't it, five seconds? Yeah. I think it's when they've got the ball in their hands, isn't it? Is it once they've got in their hands, it's five seconds. Yeah, but sometimes you see players, they get the kind of yips because they don't want to throw. I don't think it's going to be, but I think they're probably just giving them a little time frame. It's not, but it's a bit like... I think it's a good one, but it speeds it up. Do we like it? I like it. I like it, but you think about what happened. I thought it was good, you probably didn't, but the Champions League final, I know it wasn't a throw-in, but the corner before half-time.

18:12You thought that was... I was devastated. The referees told them they're still walking, they're still ambling over to take the corner. Right. So you're saying that we should have rushed to get there? Not rushed, but it was obviously... Yeah, but Gael, I mean, James, for us to see it in that Champions League game was devastating. When I saw them just running off, I thought, what's happening? We've got a corner. Where are they going? That's the way they're doing it.

18:34Gary Neville: Well, the next one could result in a corner. The goal kick countdown has been introduced, so it also applies to deliberate attempts to run down the clock and can result in a corner being awarded. So basically a five-second rule on goal kick countdown. Yeah. But it's strange they've brought in all these new rules when we're talking about the conditions being so difficult for players. Because if ever they're going to slow the game down now and some of these players have the heat, and some of this might be genuine, they might struggle to get over there and having a breather and getting their second wind.

19:01And then all of a sudden they're getting... Because that's what you use the throw-in sport sometimes when you're walking over, you're taking a little breather. I don't know, mate. They might be going too harsh on that, Gareth. I think they're not enough time.

19:09Gary Neville: I think, to be fair, what the game's witnessed in the last 12 months, those teams through unbelievable set-piece preparation, they're literally stopping the game for a minute. And I'm talking, by the way, I'm talking about League 2 games, and Roy, you've watched a lot this season, I'm watching the game, the ball being out of place so much, and literally every free kick now, the centre-halves are going up. It's just a bit of common sense, isn't it? Somebody's guidelines. One with the goalkeepers as well, and the goalkeepers are going down. They're changing that. But quick free kicks and quick throw-ins will come back in.

19:35Gary Neville: They'll just have to adapt so that actually the defence might not be prepared. Yeah, yeah. They've only got, you know, they've got to recover quickly. So, you know, it works both ways. I'm up for both of them, to be fair. I think they're both good introductions. I always feel for the arse and keep it all. He got a lot of injuries in the second half of cramp. That's tough. I think this is an unbelievable introduction. Time-limited substitutions, ten seconds. A substituted player has ten seconds to leave the field at the nearest point. If they fail to do so, the substitute cannot enter the field for at least one minute and the team is going to...

20:05Gary Neville: I love that. Yeah. I mean, it's so annoying watching a player just walking off slowly, even when the referee's done that, even when another player's come and pushed them, they still go like that. And they don't go off. I hate watching that on the TV. Yeah. I hate watching that. Even if you're away from home, even if I'm at the Tottenham end, you've got to get off that end and walk round. You've just got to get off. It's basically every situation that clubs or teams are taking advantage of. They're gaming, aren't they? Yeah. They're gaming it, basically. Oh, I still like to be taking off. OK, next one.

20:37Gary Neville: Next one. Off-field treatment. Players who are treated by the physio must stay off the field for 60 seconds. It used to be 30. There are some exceptions, including for goalkeepers, injuries, and if the opponent is booked or sent off. So I like that. So I hate this rule, the idea of someone being genuinely injured by another player. The player's got booked for it. The player's down on the floor. He's been absolutely battered. And then he has to go off. And he gets punished by having to stay off for 30 seconds. So if there is a booking now, say I foul Roy, I get booked, he doesn't have to wait 60 seconds to come back on because he's accepted it was a horrible challenge.

21:14Gary Neville: That's good, yeah. So I think that's a real good introduction. But, no, I did. You don't have an answer? No, because why does he have to be booked? So he can still hear someone, he can still go down. Why does his team need to be down to ten men for a minute? I don't like the rules. I've always thought... I don't get... Basically, that was brought in because people thought people were feigning an injury, so people now are only going to go down if they're properly in. So if they get sent to the side of the pitch, it'll stop people feigning injury. This has been in the Premier League for a few years now.

21:40But I still can't get my edge, I think. You get fouled and then for a minute, the opposition have got an advantage. It can't be right. Just get them off and get them back on.

21:49Gary Neville: I don't get it. Even the 30 seconds, I don't get it. I actually only think this happens at the end of like 10 minutes of the first half and probably 10, 15 minutes at the end of the second. I actually don't think this happens for most of a football match where people fake injuries and want to be off the pitch. I genuinely don't think that. I genuinely think players, to be fair, if they're going down with that 30-second rule, they're probably injured. Some of them are genuinely injured. I think they should be allowed back on. If you've got a cut and you go off, I think now you even have to stay off a bit longer.

22:15Gary Neville: You still have to stay off for 30 seconds. I think this minute thing is coming into the Premier League, but I don't like the minute. It's trying to stop people feigning injury, but people who've got a proper injury, have they got a little bit of a knock? But I do like the booking and the red card element that means that at least they're accepting if a player gets done properly, that they ought to stay off the field and be punished for something that's been bad. Oh, amazing. If they get taken out of the Niena, fella gets red cards. But you can come back on. Well done.

23:00Gary Neville: We're broadcasting from New York with all the latest on the World Cup for the next six weeks, so please like and subscribe to keep watching. And I'd like to say a big thanks to our partners at Skybet for their continued support in helping us bring the show to you.

23:30want to pay, and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com. Find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. You've got social dialed in. Search is doing its thing. So why do your marketing results look the same as six months ago? That's because you're fishing in the same pond as everyone else. Podcast listeners are a different audience entirely, more engaged, harder to reach through traditional channels, and ready to act when someone they trust makes a recommendation.

24:09We're Acast, and we put them right in front of you. Browse thousands of the world's leading podcasts, book host reads or run your own ads, and track every conversion in real-time. Same skills you already have. Brand new results. Acast. Acast.com slash advertise.

24:32Gary Neville: Next one. Players covering their mouths. Yeah, a good one. Any player covering their mouth in a confrontational situation with an opponent may be sanctioned with a red card. Is that something on the back of the Real Madrid thing? Because when they're covering, because you can't get the proof what they're saying with the hands covering and everyone while he's doing this and that. I think that that's a good one. But are players doing that not when having a normal conversation? Yeah, but even when it's a normal conversation, but then they can do it with a normal conversation. But if they're going to do something where they are going to abuse, then you can't see because obviously their hand's over their mouths.

25:05So I quite like that one. That one's a good one for me, girl.

25:10Gary Neville: It's important, though, it says it in a confrontational situation because if you actually have a free kick and you just want to sort of like, you know, you're planning something, you don't want someone to read what you're saying. Yeah, but it's obvious when somebody's going like that and saying, you're this and that. You're this and that. OK, corners can be checked by VAR. So VAR can make sure that a corner has been correctly awarded, but this must be done quickly and before the restart. Quickly being the key. So it has to be a case of, obviously, it's gone out for a corner or it's come off a...

25:40Gary Neville: So what will they do? Will the VAR person say, that's a corner so we don't have to go to VAR? Let's say it's VAR. Let's say it's give a goal kick and they check it straight away. it's obviously it's come off the defender sorry straightaway corner good yeah it has to be done quickly yeah quick yeah good people don't i think people generally don't mind vr if it's done quickly yeah it's all the problem is when we're waiting yeah second yellows can be reviewed players obviously yellow cards have never been able to be reviewed before so if the referee goes like red card right and it's it's a yellow and a red that can be reviewed

26:19the second yellow that can be in a red can be reviewed the first yellow doesn't get reviewed

26:22Gary Neville: but there'll be no reviews for potential second yellows yeah so if it's if the yellow is not given that could be it can't oh yeah do you know what i mean so if you're saying it might have been a yellow and it wasn't given it can't then be given as a yellow and sending someone off so it can it can reverse a red card but it can't give you a red it can't convert a non-yellow second card Again, let's say I tackle Roy for a second challenge and the referee thinks, I'm not going to give him a yellow. But VAR thought it was a yellow. He can't say... He can't. So like the penalty in the Champions League final, for instance.

26:55Gary Neville: People said that could have been a second yellow. VAR couldn't intervene and go, that's a red card now. Yeah. So it can't give a second yellow, but it can take away a second yellow. Are we happy with that? Yeah. I think we're happy with that, aren't we? Yeah. Yeah. I'll take it. It sounds crazy. FIFA, to be fair. It sounds crazy. You can criticise FIFA for many things. I actually do think they get their refereeing stuff. They test it in, don't they, in under-21 tournaments. I actually think they test it in the right way, in a stressful environment. All of those are pretty good. I think they're pretty good.

27:31Gary Neville: All of those are really quite good in the advance. They make the game better for the fans, don't they? They want to gain quicker. The only thing, the first two of them about the time-wasting and again when we're talking about these conditions, you know, they'll be under pressure from players to be. I think what you'll see is right backs and left backs, if they're not already, walking over to the ball in a deliberate fashion and making sure that once they pick the ball up, they're going to have to be ready to take it. I think they might take a little bit longer to get there, but it still has to be a reasonable time.

28:00I think it's going to be interesting. It's not like at the start of the season, the referee really implements everything. That's what's going to happen with this. They're going to do it for a while and then people get used to it. but at the start we're not going to be used to seeing people. He's being booked for that. Oh, my God. He's got five seconds. He's looking forward to it. It's going to be good. I think it's going to be good.

28:20Gary Neville: We're going to get into England. We're going to go for it. Let's go. Where are we at? Let's start with you, Roy. You're the only non-English person in this group. The squad, the chances, the the manager and what he's done and the the manager they've got a lot of good players no doubt getting out of the group should be straightforward from you think they'll compete if everything falls into place do I see England winning the World Cup? absolutely not do you know what when I look to the squad particularly defensively I'm not convinced I don't want to see any stats from anybody they've done this in the last two years or whatever, some of these games of qualifying campaigns have been quite easy.

29:10But I just don't see it come a crunch game in the quarter to the semi-fines, whether they're chasing the game or defending it. The defenders... Our defence. Yeah, I'm just looking at all of them. Obviously, you're going to go through it, Nev. Yeah, I'm just not convinced.

29:26Gary Neville: The likely defence is going to be Rhys James, you would think, would you? Right back. Nico O 'Reilly, left back, would you say? Yeah, obviously having a brilliant spell. Mark Gahey? Gahey definitely would play and then it's either Konza or Stones centre-back do you know what it's the centre-halves that would be worrying me I don't know what you think but I just think I just think imagine playing in France and the games are getting stretched I don't know I think the squad in general feels like you're looking at a lot of players who you'd say very good Premier League players but not international players that's the way I look at it I'm not just talking about defence, I'm talking about throughout the group.

30:08There's a lot of really good Premier League players, but not Champions League or international players for me. You know, I remember when I went to the Europa League final, when he was Tottenham and United, and he was kind of intimating to things what he wants to do and the players he wants, not taking the best of this and that, but taking the right player for this particular situation, what he's doing. This is what I feel he's doing. He's almost playing a chess game. Now, what we've got to do, we've got to see how he does. Because what's going to happen is, is that people are going to judge it anyway.

30:43We wanted an elite manager that's going to make the kind of decisions for himself. He's making this for himself in respects of the players he's picked. He's not bothered about what anyone thinks about who's been left out. I'm going to back him with it and see where it goes, simply because...

30:56Gary Neville: You're going to back him because you are a massive England fan. Yeah, but back him to win it. I'm backing him to get to it. Yeah, because that's what we're talking about here. We're not talking about quarters or seven. That's why he's been brought in, isn't he? Exactly. And we've got that manager who's making that kind of decision. And the defenders he just mentioned there, you think, are capable of... Well, to be honest, if we start with Rhys James, Konza, Mark Gaty and O 'Reilly, I'd be happy with that. But right, you said about Tuchel. I think some of these quotes are quite interesting. He said, his job isn't necessarily to select the 26 most talented players, number one.

31:33Gary Neville: Secondly, I can assure every fan in the country that we have 26 100 % committed players in camp with us who know their roles, who are ready to buy into their role on and off the pitch and are ready and committed to the idea of team spirit. Of course he's honest. No, no, no, no. I think these are quite stark quotes from an England manager. This is not usually the rhetoric of an England manager. Who are committed to the idea of team spirit and being unselfish. Now, if you use a word like unselfish, and to be fair, we know Thomas Tuchel, obviously, over the years, has used words that have been sort of what would be the quite...

32:05Gary Neville: He's tough. He hits people hard with those words. I mean, they are quite... I know, but most footballers are selfish. I think it's always about... I know we've... It's always a balance in that. We talk a bit about players going away, you're going, you need lads in the background who are... Who is he suggesting he's selfish that he's not picked them, Roy? If you're saying, I'm not picking the most talented players, that's not my job, and we need to have a team who are committed... He wants harmony in the clear. Of course, particularly for the lads. But of course, every manager wants that. But you also don't want lads, you don't want loads of lads left out going, again, people say good travellers.

32:39You don't want lads who are all good travellers. You want fellas chomping at the bit, they go, fucking leave me on, I'll be raging tomorrow training. This idea that everyone's happy clappy, because we're all together and there's 26 of us, you want a bit of an edge. You want lads who are grumpy in the background. I think, you tell me any players are happy to be... I still think you'll have that though, Roy. You'll still get... You think, maybe, and obviously a balancing act, but this idea with England like again all these quotes coming up the last few months I'm not necessarily going to pick the most talented players most managers say that you have to leave one or two lads out you go he's maybe not great for the group or I don't see him getting the team even if we're chasing the game I get all that from a footballing point of view but this idea that everyone's going away and these quotes are great and it's lovely and there's harmony and they're unselfish you're going you don't want them all too happy you want a bit of edge to training you want to be five and a half weeks away you're going to be longer obviously with their preparation their way now of course getting ready for the games I just think you've got to get that balance right in this idea I'm bringing lads because they're decent lads in the background and I've watched them and they've been with me since the start he's gone for harmony and let and energy hasn't he over talent what I'm saying is and the reason I look at that and when I look at the wingers I said this before I always I don't think there's a right or a wrong but when you're thinking your wide players let's say you've got your four wingers they're all quick players and We know trying to get the best out of Harry Kane.

34:01He comes deep. But I always think as a manager, do you want different types of options or do you want to replace? So if you're policing Saka, it's not Cole Palmer who'll get in a pocket. So you know when you're coming up against the game and you're thinking the opposition have dropped deep, Saka can't get behind. We need someone between the lines. He's just gone for the same sort of idea in both wide plays. Now, when I look at it, I love how strong Thomas Tuchel is and the thought of an England manager in the past leaving players out like Cole Palmer or Phil Foden, especially it just would have been unheard of I'd have still took Cole Palmer for me I still think when I look at that squad it lacks a bit of class because I think at that level of football if you're thinking of getting to a semi-final or a final and that's the point he's been brought in to win it Southgate got us so far the whole point is you hire this guy a Champions League winner to win it best manager in the world or to you know Ancelotti's there as well but I still think you need that bit of class in a big moment to do something and I just think there's too many players But has he gone too far with this harmony stuff where you're going, because come the crunch, he's there to win it.

35:04And this idea is also, you're on about James. You've mentioned James at right back. Players with lots of injuries. And I've never also heard so much chat about players who are in the squad going, well, they can play in different roles. Let me know. You've got to be careful. That's well and good having one or two. But if you're just picking players because he could play, if you're picking five or six players because they play different roles, come the crunch in a quarter. This would be fine in the group. I'm not talking about the group stages here. England would be fine. but come the crunch game against a big team in a quarter in a semi-final you need players who are amazing at their position not a jack of all trades you need players who are masters of their position you know what just quickly just with him though he knows that this is going to be the conversation around it and he's quite happy what he's done and that is why I'm saying I'm going to see how it plays you're backing him

35:48Gary Neville: obviously no you're backing him but is that the squad you would pick you know something I'm not qualified to say that's the squad I would pick. What are you saying? Do I want Cole Palmer? No, but would you... No, but would you... I'll give you... Anyone left up Trent? Is there a good enough... Would you have brought Trent? Is there a good enough case to leave them free out? Is there a good enough case to leave them free out? Is there a good enough case? I'll give you four. I'll give you Harry Maguire. Yeah. I'll give you Trent Alexander-Arnold. I'll give you Cole Palmer. I'll give you full-folding.

36:13Gary Neville: Would they have been in your squad? Can I tell you who I'd say? Harry Maguire, Lewis Hall, and who else was there? There was someone else who I thought. Harry Maguire, Lewis Hall. Gibbs-White? Morgan Gibbs-White. Wharton? Wharton. Now, if I'm those guys, I'm probably feeling a little bit disheartened about not getting involved. Definitely, I would do. But, like, that just happens. For me, with the manager and what he's picked and what he's seen with the players he's picked, up to this point, I have to back him because that's what he believes is going to get involved. You trust him, right? I do trust him.

36:47You trust him with his decision. And you know, the thing is, Roy, like I said, I've spent time with him and he's really, he's really, like... He's a smart cookie. Deep in what he's thinking. So this is why I'm thinking he's taking a massive chance with what he's doing because you can imagine he knows what's going to come for him if it doesn't go right. And he's still stuck by what he's done. So, lads, you mentioned Foden. You're on about loyalty. But Foden has been poor. You know what I mean? I wouldn't have had Foden. Foden. And even Perlman's had difficult spells. I know it's nice to get a fella off the bench.

37:14Make a case for them, girl.

37:15Gary Neville: Make a case for them. I'm asking the question. So has he stuck with loyalty for the players who've been with him for the last couple of years? He brought Maguire in recently and then left him back out. Yeah, but one sec. Gal, just because you're asking the questions, you're still... What do you mean, you're just asking the questions? You're saying, would you have left him out? Would he have left him... Make a case. Look, to be fair, the one that I... I find it hard to think that... One, you mentioned Harmony. I don't think that... And I'm not... I'll come into who I think should be in there in a second.

37:42Gary Neville: I don't think the lads that I've mentioned, Gibbs White, Foden, Palmer, Maguire, Shaw, people like that, None of them, I don't think, would disrupt harmony. I don't see any bad apples in there. So, what he said by saying they're unselfish and I've got players who are committed, I actually have never seen a lack of commitment from them lads when they played for them. That's number one. I do struggle with the idea that Haram Maguire is not in the squad. And look, Kwanzaa is a talented... I was going to ask you this question, but I'm going to say it. I find it very difficult to think that I would have sat there.

38:18Gary Neville: And to be fair, Tremont Stoog's a lot more qualified than I am. and would have picked Gerald Kwanzaa over Harry Maguire. I think if you're talking about the fact that set-pieces, last 15 minutes of a game, Stone's gets injured, whatever, both boxes, he wants to be good at set-pieces. He's stuck Dan Byrne ahead of him. That slot's gone to Dan Byrne, hasn't he? But still, what I'm saying to you in terms of Kwanzaa, though, Dan Byrne can play left-back. Let's say Dan Byrne's playing left-back. Let's say we're playing against... But now you're going to say Dan Byrne can play in a few different positions.

38:46You want to be careful with that as well.

38:48Gary Neville: Is Dan Byrne as good as a centre-half as Harry Maguire? No. No. But what I'm saying is... Would you have picked... I would have picked Harry Maguire. Over Dan Byrne. But when you look of... Over Dan Byrne. You'd have picked him over General Quarrens. I'd have picked him over both. But what I'm saying is, I like Harry Maguire, but I didn't like what happened after the squad was picked. The way, you know, carry on out of his family and all that. Carry on as... You know what I mean? I don't know if I said that on the podcast or somewhere else. There was still a Premier League game to go. Someone else could have got in.

39:14He could have been back in the squad. And he's bad-mouthing the manager for... It wasn't like he's been in the squad for two years. He got back in at the back end of that. But what he's doing is, I think, when you speak to him, obviously, I know as coach Anthony Barry, I think the feeling is the players you're mentioning have been top England players, got to finals and semifinals, and maybe they're not first choice. Now, if you talk about a Shaw or a Harry Maguire, and I think probably the feeling from them is, if you've got them players in the background, not that they're going to be negative, but you know when you've sort of got big characters in the squad and they almost stopped the other ones being that character.

39:50Do you understand what I mean? So the younger ones who are coming, like an Elliot Anderson maybe, or a Kwanza at the back, or a Gay, they feel like, no, we're the leaders now. It's not like, oh, that's Harry Maguire, they've got the semi-finals. Because Jude Bellingham might be a little bit that. I don't think Jude Bellingham's going to start the first game. I'd be surprised if he does. I'd be amazed if Bellingham wouldn't start. Well, I'm not sure he will.

40:10Gary Neville: Bellingham's not a sub. OK, well, he has been a sub for England. But what I'm saying is he hasn't had a great season. he's had injuries but I think that'll be really interesting to see how the tournament goes on that dynamic between Thomas Tuchel and Jude Bellingham where they get him into the team if he's not in the team what happens I think that's going to dominate basically airwaves all summer what about the fact I hear what you're saying what about the fact you mentioned Harry Maguire's reaction after he didn't he didn't get in and he still had a game oh yeah I've got no problem with Harry Maguire not being in it but if you talk about some of the players that are in it that's fine but he's picked it as I said for harmony.

40:46If you're a player and you've not made a 26, I think it's on you. You've not obviously done enough. And that could be my, it might be attitude, it might be training, how you're done, when you're going, it might be injury problems,

40:58Gary Neville: but that is on you. Roy's mentioned the defensive weakness. I must admit, I'm worried about the defence. For England to do well in this tournament, Anderson and Rice are going to have to be absolutely world-class in that midfield. They're going to have to be absolutely unbelievable. Now, they're good players, but they're going to have to sit there pretty much, not in every game, obviously England will be attacking in a lot of the games, but in some of the games when it gets to lay off, they're going to have to be unbelievable protecting that back. Why? But you know, at that level, there'll become a point of a game where I play in the middle of the park and you have lads behind them, obviously your job is to protect them, but there comes a point where you go, do you know what, lads, you're not a top defender, there'll be time in a game where you're 1v1, or even 2v1, that's part of the next level.

41:42Gary Neville: They're going to come up against Mbappe and Alise, players like that playing for France and Dembele. And they even ran right against Harry Maguire. Harry Maguire wouldn't have been in the team. Sorry, we're not talking about Harry Maguire being in the team. We're talking about would you think that he should be in the squad in front of Dan Byrne and Kwanzaa. We both said yes. We're in agreement. Yeah, maybe. But what I'm saying is you're then talking about this defence is going to need... But we're talking about Harry Maguire, he's not going to be in the first... No, but I still think that midfield too are going to have to play bloody well and unbelievably well.

42:11So you're saying already that whether it's Gahey and Konza or Gahey and Stones or Gahey, but you're saying them two, they're definitely going to get ran through.

42:21Gary Neville: No, no. They could have the games and they could have just... Right, I think individually, I think some of those players are fantastic. I just think if you're talking about that unit, right, a back four, the best team in the World Cup ordinarily is the best defensive team, usually the best defensive team. I don't see a back four as a unit there. And individually, fantastic players. Rhys James, what a player as a full player. Nico O 'Reilly, what a player. He's been injured or James. I'm just saying, he's a footballer, he's a hell of a football player. Gay, Konza, fantastic defenders. I don't see a back four right, I don't see a unit.

42:56Gary Neville: I'm just talking from a defensive point. I'm not saying that all of them, I think, are very good players, I like all of them. But as a unit, as a back four, I think that midfield too are going to have to do a lot of work to make sure they're covering in the gaps that will appear. because I don't think, I don't see a lot of what will be, I'm trying to say this in the round because I don't want this to sound really negative towards them, game knowledge and understanding of sort of what will be the biggest moments of staying as a back four together. Thomas Tuchel's going to have to do a lot of work with them in the next couple of weeks to get a back four together that's going to be a unit that can win a World Cup.

43:31Gary Neville: That's Roy's point. Individually, they could probably get in any other team in the World Cup. Nico O 'Reilly could put a left back for anybody. Rhys James on his day could play right back for anybody Gay would be a fantastic centre-back in most teams so it's not an individual thing it's how they build I just saw a couple of moments I just see the centre-backs and unfortunately Do you see them as a unit, Cara? No, not really but in terms of individually as well the centre-backs and that's why I go back to I think a lot of the squad is what I'd call really good Premier League players normally when you go back to when you've got Rio and John Terry it's not just that they were great players they're playing in the Champions League every week, every season so you're talking about Mark Gay I think he's gone to Man City in January.

44:09So the majority of his career has been, you know, at a good level. Crystal Palace, really good. Did well at City, end of the season. Konza's won the Europa League. But it's not coming up against that level of player week after week, you know, season after season. And it's just, that's what we've got. They're the best of what we've got. Doesn't mean they're bad players. And I think for a lot of the squad, I look at certain positions and players, I just think they're really good Premier League players. I just, are the players that we look at and think they're doing the business on the Champions League level, for our biggest teams going forward.

44:38I just, I don't see, and that's what makes me feel. That's the thing then, James. This is their opportunity to go to that. But Gehi got an opportunity against Real Madrid and a couple of times, there's just something, sometimes we watch matches all the time and there's certain games you see Gehi and I like Gehi, I'm a big fan of his and a couple of games I think it was against Real Madrid or even that night against, people running away from him, even Everton, I'm going, that worried me. There's a couple of signs, just moments in the game where you go, oh, that doesn't look good. And that can't get cut out as well.

45:10So that's where the worries come from. I don't make mistakes. It's just that moments happen in the game, they jump over to me and I'm going, oh, I don't like the look at that. Would you have been happy? So if Harry was in there, would you still have the same feeling about the back four?

45:23Gary Neville: No, look, I don't think it changes. I think Harry's right, he wouldn't have started. I'm just talking about the squad to start with, weren't we? What do we think of the squad? Do we think he's picked the right squad? Do we think he's left anybody out that should be in? I'm finding it difficult to understand why Harry wasn't in against maybe Danburn or Kwanzaa but to be fair he's made the decision I do agree with Cara I think Harry himself will be to be fair disappointed that he's found him Are you aware how many goals Man United have conceded? No, when Harry's played If he's your rock solid centre half and you're saying he should be We're talking here about the fourth centre back in the squad because it's Gage, Stones and Kwanzaa that are number three Question marks over some of them and it's question marks over Stones Stones hasn't played regularly No, but to be fair, your centre-halves are Gay, Conser and Storms are your top three.

46:07Gary Neville: No, you're talking about your fourth and fifth centre-backs here when you're talking about Harry. I'm talking about, I think, if you wanted someone to come in and do a job for you in a game, I think Harry, to be fair to him, can be a reliable soldier. I do think that. I do agree with Harry. I don't think he'll have been happy about how his, to be fair, family then went public after, because I don't think he'll have wanted that. I don't think he'll have wanted that, but they're obviously upset. What I would say is, the defensive bits worries me. I agree with you, Roy. the bit that frightens me to death and to be fair I think will cost us and I'm pretty sure it will cost us I hope I'm wrong England have been knocked out of tournaments for 20 odd years and in the last three finals that we've played against Croatia in a semi-final Italy in a final Spain in a final when we play in conditions later in a tournament when we're slightly fatigued and teams keep the ball off us we are unable to be able to get through that match at the last stages of a tournament and it will happen again because at the squad that he's picked any option of us being a possession team has gone.

47:00Gary Neville: We are not a possession team in this tournament, which I don't mind. We are a counter-attacking team against the top team because Cara's mentioned it. You've got Rashford and Gordon. You can't keep possession with those. You've got Madweki and Saka on this side. You've got a midfield of Rice and Anderson who won't be able to compete with the best midfields of Portugal, France and Spain and Brazil when it comes to rotation and keeping the ball. You've got Kane who drops in with probably a Bellingham or a Roger. So you're not keeping possession against the top team. It's impossible. I'm telling you, those three or four teams, five teams that I've named, will keep the ball a lot longer than ours.

47:33Gary Neville: At that point, when you've played four, five, six games, you've travelled all over America or wherever else you might have to go, I think that will be the point where we just go vroom and the engine goes and the petrol runs out. And that is my concern, again, that we've picked... I'm not saying... I was hoping... What I saw under Gareth, and look, I'm hoping Thomas Tuchel proves me wrong, and he goes and basically finds a way, because I think he's capable of it, he's a manager who can, to get over the line somehow. I think he's got that in him. But Gareth, I felt, was developing us into a team that ultimately, I felt, was getting more technical.

48:04Gary Neville: Maybe it was wrong with likes of Palmer, Foden, Bellingham, Saka. It was all a bit, trying to be a bit more fluid. We seem to have gone back to what would be, I think here, more of a Capello, a Sven, a team that's gone a bit more, we're going to be a bit more narrow. We're going to have people who can run there very quickly from there to there in wide areas. and we've got some people who can run past Harry. So it's good. What fascinates me is you've just said that and I think you're spot on. You go back to English managers and you think of sort of Terry Venables and Glenrod. I know it's a long time ago, but I actually go back to me sort of Liverpool days and in terms of Julien and Benitez, they were like direct, defensive, compact.

48:44It was about off the ball. And it was the English manager or the British managers like Roy Evans or Kenny or Brenton Rodgers, they've been wanting to play the football. We always get this thing drummed into us, I've got foreign coaches when I play this football that we don't and we're in a dark age. But I agree with Gary, even that thing of like two men in midfield, it was almost like that was a big no-no, wasn't it? For England for so long in tournaments, it always had to be a trade. Now it just, listen, use whatever you want. But it feels very much like Rice and Anderson could be in there alone at different times.

49:13And it does feel like that. Why players up and down, not sort of like people there. But if they're sitting in, Jamie, and they're sitting in, and they're not up and down all the time, then it is counter-attacked. Are you saying you can't play counter-attack in those conditions? Because you're on a boat and chase the ball, but you don't chase your ball, you just sit in. And that's just sliding across.

49:30Gary Neville: You're going to have, say, for instance, some games will be later in the evening where the roof's on and they might be playing in Seattle, which is a bit cooler, and you might have to be able to be a bit more adaptable and go for a bit more high-press in those games because it's cooler conditions. You may then be playing in 38-degree heat where it's boiling, where you've got to then be able to keep the ball. Are we adaptable with the squad that's been selected to become a possession team? I don't think so. I think we're going to have to play pretty much. I might be wrong. I know we've got good footballers, but I don't think the 4-2, one there, the two wide players that we've got, and obviously Harry will drop it, I don't think that gives us, against the better teams, the rotations that the likes of the Portuguese, Brazilians, the Spanish, the French, they will.

50:09Gary Neville: I mean, I can see now what's going to happen. We're going to have Konza and Gehi on the ball here, and you're going to have Rice and Anderson and those four are very good players in their own right. That will not get England playing from the back. I've seen it too many times in my last... You have to find a different way then, won't you? That's the manager's job. So it's going to be a bit of probably being a bit more compact at times, probably, to be fair, trying to keep the ball where we can in a bit more of a sort of basic fashion, I'm going to say. And then definitely using pacing-wide areas.

50:41Gary Neville: Well, what you're talking about, you're talking about the knockout stage, aren't you? I mean, that can't be the plan in the group stage. When you're playing against teams, you've got to keep the ball again. But my point is, I agree with your group stage, this won't emerge. I'm talking when we forget to playing, like, in the quarters, the semis. At that point, I do think... When we're saying the centre-back there, I think the interesting one there is John Stones. And we all knew he was going to be in the squad and he hasn't kicked the ball for how long? And I'm thinking, as he got a role, he can't just be bringing him...

51:07That's what I'm saying. He can't just be bringing him for experience or behind the plays. He knows he hasn't really played that much football. He must have a plan for him to use him in a certain way or a certain game he must have. There's no way, with everything you've just said and that Thomas Tucho, I haven't thought of that as well. He's got some plan for it. Maybe we shouldn't underestimate him. I'm telling you, man. Because he's stuck to his guns with what he's doing. Everybody's obviously talking about it. But then let's see how it goes, especially if we can build momentum.

51:34Gary Neville: Last quote. We have specialists for all different kinds of scenarios. There we go. Whether we are leading or chasing a result. We always want to be a strong set-piece team, so we have specialists for that. And we want to be a strong penalty team, so we have specialists for that. Very unusual before a tournament, where a manager talked about, I mean, set-piece is not unusual to say we want to be strong set-piece and strong at penalties. But it does set out a way in which a sort of coach is thinking about going for a struggle. You know what I mean? We're thinking set-pieces, we're thinking penalties.

52:02Gary Neville: You know, it's... I wouldn't underestimate their planning. I think it's planning and their preparation will be spot on. I think it'll be as good as anybody. But we still go back to it. Come the crunch games, it'll be about players. Individual. Individually. Can they win it, Roy? The World Cup? I can't see it, no. Again, I go back to it. I think defensively. I think England's planning and preparation will be as good as anybody, of course. It'll obviously be moments. And again, we're talking about come the crunch game, quarter-final or semi-final, there'll be some of these players you think just getting caught up because I agree with Jamie, these aren't competing weak and we go to the very, very top or competing to win in Chapman's league every week.

52:41That's where I see it defensively. Have they got a goal threat? Have they got a good option off the bench? Yeah. Will he be well prepared and well drilled and set pieces? Yeah, of course. But sometimes you need a bit more of that. Maybe that real, real quality. And again, the centre-halves, even Stones there you're mentioning. How many minutes has he actually played? It's not like if he's played 10 or 15 games. He might be. He might lack Matt Chapman. He won't even have that. Any idea what he played? Can we get to find out?

53:09Gary Neville: How many games he played? Nine. Nine games, ten games? Ten games. Wow. Nine games. And you think there's a chance he could even... He could have made a start of games or whatever? I don't think he'll start. Yeah, he's played 439 minutes all season. Wow. That is amazing. He probably won't start. Absolutely, I don't think. OK. But we have to have faith in the manager that we've chosen to pick this team. Yeah. You know what I mean? Whatever you say about the midfield and... He's not scared of making big decisions. That's the main thing. and it's up to them guys now to like... Righty, I love the midfield.

53:42Gary Neville: I wish both those players were at my club because I genuinely like both of them. My point is, can they play in an elite level game in a World Cup against midfields that have got the likes of Bruno Fernandes, Vitinha, Xhalla, all those types of players in that midfield for Portugal or the players that Spain are going to have in there that are going to rotate and just be outnumbering them in their pockets and honestly... You don't like that rotating stuff to your midfielders. You know something right? Look at the U-Bix cube. You know something right? It sounds crazy. These teams, when you play...

54:13Gary Neville: You've been there for Ireland. We've been there for... Honestly, you're chasing absolute shadows. They know somehow how to be able to sort of just... Why not, aren't they? Yeah. I always tend to sort of work in straight lines and move that way and that way and down and that. But they don't... They never... They never like... Oh, yeah. Over£1 million is up for grabs this summer with ITV7 Football. It's completely free to play. Simply answer seven questions on selected matches throughout the tournament for your chance to win the jackpot. Enter now on the ITV7 app or website. Good luck. 18 plus TNCs apply.

54:53Right, Kieran, here we are in New York, and we are playing the ITV7. It's England versus Costa Rica on the 10th of June. there's a£10 ,000 jackpot to be won the mechanic you'll be pleased to know we need six correct answers to win and a tiebreaker splits multiple players who've correctly predicted these six questions so question number one what's the score? England, Costa Rica I wasn't impressed with them in their last game

55:28Gary Neville: and I think it's because they're still adapting to the heat so I'm going win a 2-0. I'm not thinking they're going to blow us away. They haven't yet under Tuchel anyway, have they really? No. I will go. No. Do you know what? If I was, I think they need... Statement win, 3-0. Right, OK. 3-0. 3-0 England. No, no, no. I don't think it'll matter in the scheme of things, but I think if I was in the England team, you're like, yep, get your marker down. Statement. So there you go. 3-0. So I'm going 3-0 and you're going to know perfect I'll enter that into the app right first goal scorer key right this is the harder one because we've been friendlies it's who's starting do you know what I'm gonna go I'm gonna go Anthony Gordon I think I give him a proper run out after just gonna go move yeah I didn't see I didn't see that at all that is it's crazy Barcelona anyway right so you're gonna I I think I'm going to go Gei.

56:30Okay. Set piece, header. Right. I mean, set pieces have been massive in the Premier League this year, haven't they? Exactly. That's it. I think we'll do that. First player carded, Kieran. Right. It's just, I had to pick a... I've done some research, and I've looked, and both the centre-ars for Costa Rica got yellow-carded against Colombia in their last game. So I've just tossed him a coin, and I've gone Jalen Mitchell.

56:57Gary Neville: there's no thought process going into it hoping England give him a hard time and yeah it's a real I don't know the cost of it you can team well so that's sort of my uh well it's disappointing that you don't know them well Kieran says a lot about you but I'm going with Declan Rice because um I think he'll start and I think you know he'll want to get around send it lay them put a message in, lay a marker down for England, I think it'll get frustrating, they'll be like time wasted and stuff, so Declan Rice. Corners, Kieran, 10 or more or less than 10? I'm saying more than 10 because I'm thinking Saka on the right, Gordon on the left, causing carnage for Costa Rica, surely they're not equipped to cope with that anyway, so I'm just thinking, I think there could easily be 8 or 9 corners in the first half alone, so I'm going more.

57:52Do you know what? I think 10 plus corners is a lot. I'm saying they're not going to do it. That's just, I think if you look at how many corners happen in games, especially when they're like one-sided, I'm saying less than 10 corners. I think that's controversial, I think. Right. Less or more than 10 shots on target? More. Yes, I'm saying more too. I mean, you've gone for 3-0, so there's at least three shots on target there, isn't there? Yeah, there'll be at least another eight more. So how many cards? It's a friendly isn't it? I'm thinking there's not going to be more than three if that. I'm going to go two in total.

58:34I'm also going to go two. Minute of the first goal. I think England will take their time to score so I'm going to go minute of the first goal towards the end of the first half. I'm going to go 39th minute. 7th minute. ITV7. ITV7. Please play it. I could do with the ten grand actually to pay for this place. OK,

59:04Gary Neville: we've now got to put ourselves in the position of Thomas Tuchel and we've got to select the starting 11 for the first game. You've just done it. We've just done the back four. Well, Pickford's in net. Yeah. Yeah, we've got Rhys James. We're playing Rhys James at right back. Yeah. Nico O 'Reilly. Yeah. O 'Reilly could be a star. Brilliant player. He could. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant player. And we're picking Konza and Gaye. Yeah. And we're picking Declan Rice and Elliot Anderson. Probably, yeah. And we're picking Saka in front of Medwayke on the right. Yeah. And on the left we're going for Gordon, probably, in front of Rashford, are we?

59:43Gary Neville: Or are we going for Rashford? I think he'll go for Rashford. You're Rashford? I think Rashford he'll go. Yeah, I've just seen him. Rashford on the left. So Saka on the right, Rashford on the left. Yeah. Declan and... And Jude. ...Anderson. You've got Harry up front and then the big decision. Right. I mean, Eze could come into it, but the likely choice is... ...Rodgers or Jude. Yeah, that's the one. He'll choose one of those. Which one are you choosing? I think he chooses Rodgers. I think it's a big call in the first game to leave him. Yeah, he's got the bottle to do it. He's left him out of squads.

1:00:16He has got the bottle to do it. I just don't see how he leaves Rodgers out, where he's been his man in the England team and he's actually finished the season strongly. Did he score in the European final? He's like... I think most people... Honestly, I think this could blow up in the World Cup or it's how this is managed by both of them. Tuchel and Bellingham. So, you're not about good travellers. How do you think Bellingham would be if he's left out?

1:00:38Gary Neville: That's what I'm saying. But, Roy, you said before, you want players who, when they're left out, they're going to be fucking angry. Jude won't take it well. But what kind of angry do you get? Jude won't take it well. Why would he? Because, to be fair, he's a superstar. Yeah, but he'll still get on with it. Yeah, but that's my point. You can be a good angrier in training. You're a chocolatey manager going, God almighty, we've upset him. Or will he be upset around the camp or through the media or his family? You know what I mean? It's the baggage with all that stuff. I just don't mean him. I mean any player.

1:01:04If Jude didn't start that game, I guarantee at some stage he would make himself known in that tournament. Without a doubt. He's produced big moments. Absolutely, because he can produce a big moment. Listen, Morgan Rodgers, if he starts, no one can say he doesn't deserve that start. You know, no one could say that. But at the same time, I don't think it's one of those where Jude's going to like soak off. He's going to say, right, when I come back... I think Bellingham will get himself back into the team. Absolutely. I just think at the first game... If he doesn't start. You don't want to send a message to the squad.

1:01:33It's the World Cup, it's about winning. But I think the way you sort of dealt with Bellingham, it's all leaving Palmer out and forward. It's almost like a message to the rest of the... You know, he's the manager, he's going to make big decisions. I think he'll start with... Rodgers. Rodgers. I do think almost maybe by the third game I think Bellingham will find himself back in the team he's too just big of a figure too much of a good player big moments if he starts with Rodgers and he plays well then the disc calls the narrative's going to be they're going to be trying to put pressure into that squad about what's happening with Jude what's happening there they're going to be following him in the bathroom they're going to be following him all over the place like what's going on

1:02:08Gary Neville: but righty to be fair I don't get emotional about this but I watched back I've been to 14 tournaments and watched England play and I've seen great players

1:02:22Gary Neville: destroyed over probably 25, 30 years for England and I can't work out whether with what's happening with forward, I know forward is not in great form with Palmer, with Bellingham, with Gibbs White, with a really talented sort of what will be group of players, I'm not saying that all of them should be in by the way that are England doing again to the most talented players what we've always done We've gone for the runner, we've gone for the physical one, we've gone for the ones we sort of think are committed 100%. And I've just seen this for 25, 30, 40 years, whereby maybe Gazza aside, he always was given, to be fair, because he was that much of a genius.

1:02:56Gary Neville: But we have, to be fair at times, taken quite talented players and not really appreciated the... Velen and Morgan Rodgers are talented players. They are, they are talented players. And look, we've got a lot of talented players. But my point is, I'm torn between, well done, Thomas, you're a great manager, I believe in you, and I'm going to back you 100%. And you're like, I hope you'll win the tournament for us. But I can't help think there's part of me at the end of the tournament that's going to be saying, what's happened to this generation of the last five, six years that have had this? We thought when we had Saka, Foden, Palmer, Bellingham, Eze, this is like the...

1:03:30Gary Neville: And we're almost seeing them. Bellingham now is being left out. So Palmer and Foden are out of the squad. Bellingham will be out of the team. Before you know it, the three... Bourbon Gibbs-White. Bourbon Gibbs-White is not even the squad. So you talk about the three or four of the most talented players in the country have got a bit of flair, a bit of this about them, a bit of the arrogance that we like and that we always wanted. And we're seeing them not... So I'm at the moment, I'm intrigued to understand what we're going to see at the end of this talk. Because I think Thomas Tuchel's been so brave because he's putting himself in the camp of...

1:03:56Oh, we could get hammered for this.

1:03:57Gary Neville: Yeah, this could... But this is what I like about him. I like it. I love the fact that he's ready... His balls are on the... They're ready to be smashed. They're on the table. And you'll smash them. Because that's what's going to happen to him. Which are you going to smash his balls? That's what I love about him, because he's gone, you know what, I'm doing that. But your other thing, righty, we left Ian Wright out of squads. We left, you know, you've been there, right? Who did you leave out of a squad you picked? To be fair, I actually think, look back, I actually think we picked, and maybe people say we got it wrong, I think we picked actually the younger, most talented players.

1:04:30Gary Neville: I do. I mean, we picked Oxlade-Chamberlain. But you never got through the group. No, I get that, Caro, so you can argue that ultimately, but I don't think we had anywhere near as strong a group as this is now, Let's be clear. But my point is that I'm looking at this and I'm thinking, we've always seemed to. Players are a bit more maverick, a bit more arrogance on the pitch. Glenn Hoddle. Glenn Hoddle. Scholes, obviously, in the end, he was never really appreciated other than by Glenn. Leticia. Leticia. There are players over the years. I just think Joe Cole. These players would be playing, I think, for other countries that have got more technical players.

1:05:06Gary Neville: I don't think other countries would be thinking about whether they're playing Jude Bellingham or not. I don't think other countries would be thinking about whether they're going to pick Cole Palmer in a 26-man squad. I don't think other countries would be not selecting Gibbs White. But all these players didn't have great season. I'm just saying... The talent isn't enough. I'm not timing. This is the timing when the squad was near. And I think that Tuchel, to be fair, what I like about him is he's determined, he's sure. He said, I have absolutely picked the right squad. And I like Joseph, he's sure.

1:05:32Gary Neville: He's an experienced manager. So I hope he gets it right. But right his point, by the way, if this goes wrong it's a brutal one you know what I mean because of the fact that there are three or four what would be crowd favour you know your Jacks your Madisons those players but when you say if it goes wrong what's going wrong quarterfinals they're like what's wrong you're not going to say it's wrong I am never arrogant enough Roy not to think quarterfinals is par for England when you think about Italy aren't even here so if they get to the quarterfinals you think they should be happy enough for that so to me it depends on two things well one thing how do you lose So when I thought we played France in the quarterfinal in Doha, and we were in that stadium, I thought I watched an England team that competed in that game and they were unlucky.

1:06:13Gary Neville: And I thought, do you know something? It was a 50-50 game. It's a fantastic team who nearly went on and won it. And I'm thinking, I'm all right with that. I'm not disappointed. But do you know something? I can live with that. If you're getting knocked out by, with respect, Iceland, or somebody like that, or Romania like we did all those years, you've got a big problem in a quarterfinal. So it's who you're playing against and how you lose. and I think the quarterfinal can be part and if you lose against a great team or for some form of freak with the manager being brought in you mentioned it at the start of the programme he's been brought in to do what?

1:06:44To win it. I think it's a massive

1:06:47Gary Neville: but he's been brought in to win it. OK. He's been brought in to win it to be brought into a tournament when only one European team has ever won a trophy outside of Europe in a World Cup and that's Brazil obviously Germany and Brazil in 2014. Honestly it would be a freak for England in this heat with this travelling at the end of what but there were the words that came out that was the words that came out Joseph if you're telling me that Thomas Tuchel is judged by he wins it or he's over absolutely not I'm not in that position I think if he gets to the semi-final I'd have said Thomas you've done an unbelievable job I agree with you because when you look at the squad and he has picked that squad but even if Palmer or Foden or a couple of others in there I don't think for me there's better teams or squads than England but that was the whole point Gareth Southgate we all looked at and I think Gareth did unbelievable at England.

1:07:34I do. Some of the criticism he got. I'm a massive fan of his. What he did with England getting to the finals. Yeah. The reason he was questioned was for a substitution in the final. That was it. So you're bringing this guy in and he's basically got to get to the final and then make a good substitution. That was what he was criticised for in the two finals he got to. He didn't get a substitution right. So the pressure on Tuchel to come in. But the whole point of bringing him in is you're bringing a foreign coach in and you're bringing a guy who's a Champions League winner. Because most managers at international level, they're not great managers they're not someone Remed you to go and get or you know Liverpool would look to go and get or Manchester United it's almost like a different set of managers and in Brazil with Ancelotti obviously and England they've gone right we're just going to get elite managers and we're going to put them in the international game and it's all about that moment is he going to pick that right team at that semi-final is he going to get that substitution right in the final that was the point of picking them but with you here I don't think we'll get there in terms of you don't think it was a semi No.

1:08:33I think if England got to the semi-final, I think they've done brilliant. I think semi-final... Suppose they got to the semi-final and then... So you're saying about it's who they lose to and how they lose. Would you still be saying, oh, yeah, but they got to the semi?

1:08:45Gary Neville: No, right, if they got to the semi, I'd be saying that's a brilliant performance. Righty. Yeah, but then suppose they blow out because there's too much movement. Using golf analogy. Go on. Par is quarter, I think, for England. Got to be par. Birdie is semi-final. Eagle is final. Albatross is winning it. I'm telling you, you talk about holding one on a par four, I'm telling you, or a two on a par five. If England win it, you're... Honestly, you lost me at the birdie. Right, it's a freak. You're talking about something that happens like once in a blue moon. You're giving us absolutely no chance.

1:09:15Gary Neville: No, right. Because we've got offensive players. Right, do you honestly... Seriously, do you... Look, I... I'm thinking we should go semi-final. If we get to semi-final, I feel like we could go again. In ten days' time, we'll be England fans and we'll be all the way and we'll be saying, absolutely, we can win it because we've got a chance, no problem. but do you genuinely believe right now sat here that we are going to win this tournament we've got a good chance especially with Harry Kane up front what are you going to say but Neff you spoke about all the challenges end of a long season will they keep the ball long enough the conditions are away for six seven weeks but that is the manager's job he's got to find a way to navigate that whether it be go easy on the training our preparation's spot on we've had lots of luck no injuries obviously Harry Kane turns up and he's banged everything has to fall into place for England to have any chance of winning.

1:10:02And that can happen. But if there's anything not quite right, or he didn't quite get the squad right, or the lads in the back, the two centre-halves don't walk out,

1:10:08Gary Neville: then they've got no chance. Can I just say, I think that Thomas Tuchel, to win this tournament or to get to the semi-final, has got a far tougher job because of the conditions and the travel than Gareth had in Doha and in Russia. You know what I mean? In terms of the run that Gareth had in Russia with the teams that we played against, if you remember, all the way through to that semi-final. And then in Doha, obviously, it's a quarter-final. The semi-finals and finals were in England and in Germany. So he's had good, what I call, sort of good temperature tournaments in terms of, you know, friendly tournaments with travel.

1:10:36Gary Neville: Doha was good with travel. Germany's not too bad. You know what I mean? Good tournaments that I think meant that we weren't travelling five, six hours. This is a different ask, honestly. This is a monstrous ask. We played in Brazil in 2014. We were travelling four hours, different time zones, players having to adapt, heat of 30-odd degrees. I just, I can't see England, as I know England, as I love these players that are in this squad, I just don't see... You talk about 94, Roy. I went to a game in 94 World Cup. Well, we played in the World Club Championship. When did we play? Yeah, 2020. 2000, sorry.

1:11:11Gary Neville: But just going back to 94. A lot of people don't know this. I went to a game in the 1994 World Cup. I was over there for 10 days. Went to a game in the Rose Bowl in Los Angeles. And it was the game where Columbia played the USA. Roy said about his parents, basically, watching it underneath. I walked out. I was with Bex, Keith Glesby and Phil. we walked out after 15-20 minutes. We went outside into the concourse we got an ice cream we got an ice cream You're going to make it to a joke though me and Phil having an ice cream Honestly we had an ice cream We had an ice cream no word of a lie and we didn't watch the match for about 25 minutes we went back in for 10 minutes to the second half and we could not bear it we were literally frying the players are playing on the pitch I'm telling you it was unbearable So I just don't see how it's not a Brazil or a Portugal or a Spain that sort of...

1:12:05Gary Neville: I just don't see how it's not a nation that is used to this searing heat and playing in this heat. And no matter what preparation they will do, it won't... It'll obviously help a little bit. You do adapt. Well, you do adapt. I mean, you do adapt to sort of these conditions and you do play in hot tech, but you adapted, I'm sure, in 1994. You'll have gone over there a bit earlier, won't you, and played a couple of games or what? Two days before the first game. No, we did. I think we played like a couple, obviously a couple of teams. I think we played the USA on the 21 team or something. Yeah, we obviously went over and done our best to prepare, but there'll be nowhere near as well.

1:12:36England are getting out of it.

1:12:37Gary Neville: No, but look, 94 preparation, Roy, is different than 2006 preparation. So you might have gone over, but other teams will have been preparing the same. Yeah, but just remember, England, all these top teams will be preparing better than a lot of the teams at the World Cup, because they will come down to finances, how you prepare. They will, that'll be obvious. But I suspect some of these countries, look, I don't know. All the smaller countries won't be doing that, Nev. I saw the route that England had before, and I think they had like, if they get through, and we'll bring this over in a minute. Right.

1:13:01Gary Neville: Right. Bring it over now. Bring it over now. If they got through, I think against Norway, by the way, in the round of 32, they would play Ivory Coast or South Korea, right? I wouldn't have played against Ivory Coast or South Korea in 30 degree heat. You don't want to play against anybody. No, no, I know. I just think that... I know, yeah. Right, what you said before, I think some of the countries that are used to playing in this type of heat, where they can, these types of conditions, they could really shock in this tournament and go a long way, you know what I mean? They might be able to deal with it, but at the same time, I'm not...

1:13:32Going back to England, yeah, I think we'll win it. We can still win it.

1:13:36Gary Neville: Well done, we're winning it then. Thank you very much. It's coming home. You have to have the hope. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. We're going to chat a little bit about Scotland. Yep. I tell you what, before we even get there, Did you see Billy Gilmore? Oh, what a nightmare. You know what? The fella's coming in for him as well. Remember when Billy Gilmore got him? Remember he came in right at the death as well. I think someone got injured and the same was happening with Tyler Fletcher. You're hoping that he can, you know, he can have the kind of game that Billy Gilmore had on his debut in the Euros because he was brilliant in the Euros.

1:14:14They'll be up against it. Scotland will be up against it. Yeah. Wow.

1:14:19Gary Neville: They do like, you're on a boat. Scotland's group. If Scotland got the, I mean, their first game, obviously, that game against Brazil in Miami, but that's the last game now. Yeah, but is that just an unbelievable game, that? It's a magnificent game. Brilliant. You imagine what that's going to be like over there in Miami? Well, they want to be able to, in some ways, if you get the job done, because of the situation where there's a lot of groups where three teams can go through, if they can get the job done... They have to win the first game, obviously. They can almost enjoy it. Morocco. And you think of Brazil...

1:14:48Because they've got Haiti, right? And Brazil would have won their first two games. you think they're already true and they might have a bit of a chance. Scotland's got to be... And Scotland, they'll be fine with the heat, won't they? It's going to be tough. You know what? And again, they're probably going in thinking, right, we can beat Haiti. You don't know what Haiti are going to be bringing. We can beat Haiti and we can get a point from somewhere else. And Haiti will be thinking, we can beat Scotland. You know, it's going to be... It's a tough one.

1:15:13Gary Neville: No, surely they'll get a win at the first one. What do you think about Scott McTominay? I mean, seriously, like... He's rebuilt. He was at United. At times, to be fair, in a period where United players were probably getting mocked a little bit, it was like, you know, was it that... He was alongside... Was it Mac... He did. It was Mac Fred. Him and Fred. They were ridiculed. Fred dragged them down, I have to say. It was Mac Fred, wasn't it, at the time. And that was the sort of thing, oh, Mac Fred. Mac Fred. That's what they called it at the time. It's like they were mocked and Scott McTonamy's gone over to play at Napoli.

1:15:44Gary Neville: Can I be honest? Seriously. For Conte to pluck him... Yeah. Yeah. They paid£30 million. And Billy Gilmore as well. They paid£30 million for him, by the way. But to pick him with everything, like, he was... He's got£14 in Serie A this year for Napoli. That is some going, Roy, by the way. OK. A bit like Bruno. What did he win? We're not on to Bruno. Yes, no, no, but what did he win? Yeah, we're talking about Bruno. We've just said here for the last hour, but can England win it? Bruno last week, Roy, said that he wanted to speak to you. Have you ever chat with him or what? Did you have a chat with Bruno?

1:16:17Gary Neville: Have you apologised? Has Roy Keane said sorry? I said, I said, no, no, no, you're very childish. No, there was a reaction to what we said after the podcast a few weeks ago. And he reached out to me, he wanted to chat. And do you know what? I did. I called him and we did a lovely chat. It was a nice chat. Lovely chat about... Bit of everything, really. But it was nice, cos, again, When we do podcasts or games, sometimes you think you say something afterwards and you're trying to communicate something that doesn't come across properly. And people get upset and he wanted to speak to me. And we had a nice, mature conversation.

1:16:54It was lovely. A lovely chat. That's nice to hear. He apologised and we moved on. I forgave him. No problem. No, it was a good chat.

1:17:05Gary Neville: It's interesting, to be fair, because I said something about... When was the 7-0? Five years ago, four years ago? I said something in that game, to be fair, and obviously at the time he was upset and I went in to see him probably a year after, actually, maybe a year or so. No one knew about this. I think I interviewed him a couple of weeks ago and said that I'd been in to see him. And I went and see him for an hour and a half. And to be fair, doesn't it sort of... You talk about players, you sit there and commentate, but then when you talk to them, you recognise that actually you've got a lot in common in terms of actually you've been there and you're thinking, it does make you reflect a little bit, doesn't it?

1:17:41Yeah, I think that I like having boundaries with players. I don't want to be speaking to players every few weeks or their ages. I don't go down that road. Every now and again, I know that, but every now and again, a player might reach out and you go... So I think it was important I spoke to him because there's been lots going on and lots reported. And he's obviously a big player for United. I'm an ex-United player. And it was like... I think the idea of just communicating and having a kind of proper conversation, I really enjoyed it. And hopefully I think he did a nice chat about a bit of everything.

1:18:08And yeah, I felt better afterwards, definitely.

1:18:10Gary Neville: What did you speak... Obviously, he spoke about the thing, but what do you speak about? A bit of everything. Football, leadership, his role, the way he plays, stats. Yeah, honestly, we spoke a bit of everything, but in a nice... It was nice. It was a lovely chat. When you came off the phone, did you feel good? That's a bit of a stretch, but... LAUGHTER No, I'm talking about... I don't mean, like, a bit of a relief-y kind of... You know what? I'm pleased that's happened. No, because when we do chats, we always reflect if we said something. And again, if you felt you didn't say something properly, and people pick up on stuff, just like Bruno said, stuff happens to him, you go, so it's nice, there was a bit of clarity at the end of the conversation.

1:18:47We were fine with you. I'm pleased. And I'm looking forward to doing, hopefully, the Portugal game in the World Cup.

1:18:53Gary Neville: I tell you what you realise when you speak to him one-on-one, and he speaks to him off-camera a couple of weeks ago, he's a massive football fan, he watches all the football. He's intelligent about football, isn't he? Yeah. He's intelligent about football, you know me? He's like someone that you speak... And I said this about Trent Alexander-Arnold, You always smile at me when I sort of say it. But you know something? I went to interview Trent Alexander-Arnold a couple of years ago. And you talk about someone defensively. You sort of commentate on him. And I said quite a bit that I thought he needed to get more serious about his defending.

1:19:19Gary Neville: But then you realise he watches all the championship games. He watches the League One games. I thought... Because you judge people, don't you? You think, I don't think he'd be at home watching a championship game on a Friday night or a League One game. I think he wouldn't be. He might watch certain games. but he actually watches loads of football and he watches old clips and he watches YouTube videos. I thought, student did again. Yeah, but do you know something, Roy? Sometimes you think, like, we have this perception that maybe some players maybe are a bit more sort of carefree and they're not as sort of what would be serious as we think they are.

1:19:52Yeah, but you can tell by Bruno when you watch how he plays. Yeah. Every single pass, everything. Yeah. He's a perfectionist. He wants it to be perfect. He doesn't like people to drop below Stan. He looks like somebody that's just constantly... And everyone's a different trait. You can see it with him. He gets so wound up about... My hang-ups with Bruno has never been about his football and talent. Mind-boggling. But it's a bit like his leadership stuff. So that was the stuff we kind of cleared up, which is fine. And also to remind it, I always remind myself, when you're watching the game and we're doing punditry, it's very easy when you're watching.

1:20:21It is. I remind myself that every game we're doing, you're like, he's got to do that. But when you're out there, it's bloody tough.

1:20:26Gary Neville: Of course it is. That's what we're paid to do. If you look at Bruno, and I think I asked this question a few weeks ago, and you think of, let's say, for instance, he was playing behind. Ewan Scholes is an example or Ewan Nicky but I'm just making it up and he was in front of you there with say Ruud van Nistelro in front of him and he had David Beckham and Ryan Giggs on the way and I'm just putting him into a position Right where you know I would you not be looking at him thinking I'm glad we've got him you know because you look at him now He's actually his numbers in a period where United to be fair haven't won trophies I've been like off the scale like more assists than canton are more goals than canton are that you think of Eric can stand what you achieved at United and you won trophies and I know that you're going to come back with trophies but Brian Robson I always say about Brian Robson the caveat I always throw at is Brian Robson played for Manchester United for whatever it was 12-13 years and didn't win a league until the very last year he won two at the end yeah at the end when he probably wasn't playing nearly every week you were playing probably a lot of the games and sort of Incy was playing yeah of course but he got the league but I'm saying he had to wait 12 years you know what I mean I used to say actually before any of us probably a couple of years ago I don't think Bruno's the problem, actually.

1:21:29Gary Neville: He's not the problem. I think we do focus on him because we think he should set the standards. But he probably does get hard rap because he's the only player there that actually does demonstrate any care on him. But he gets a hard rap because he's the best player. He's the captain. He's the highest paid player. So we will focus on him. We're not going to focus on the full-back. So when you're going after people like Bruno, and you're saying, and this is not about his talent, because if he was playing in front of me and Butty or Scorsi, happy days, just keep giving the ball. you do your bit yeah but it's the other bit right scotland oh yeah sorry no they're up against it now you know something listen they're up against steve clark just signed a new deal and everything you know what of course he did take him before the competition the thing is he's taking it to three tools brilliant unbelievable with the levels of players he was a coach at liverpool under the Yes.

1:22:19Kenny, he was really good. Steve Clarke.

1:22:20Gary Neville: Let's talk about John McGinn. Yeah. Right? I love John McGinn. Yeah. I'd have John McGinn at United. Would you have John McGinn at Liverpool? And McTominay, you'd have him back at Hominay if you want. The thing I like about John McGinn is, when you think of the manager, and you go and watch Aston Villa, and if I said to you, what position does John McGinn play? He's a bit of midfield, he's a bit of this, he's a bit of that. He's always in the team. and there's always options and maybe he's out injured he comes straight back into the team and he's got different players board players between the lines sometimes a winger but he always finds a place for John he's good he's good he's good he's good he's good he's good he's good he's good and I watched Scotland in a friendly at Everton's Grand a few months ago oh god he did play but he came off the bench he changed the game Scotland weren't doing that well in the game he came off the bench and he looked a class above now he is a class above most of the Scotland players you know he plays at high level in the Premier League but I love watching him.

1:23:16I mean, I watched him against Liverpool. Last game, yeah. He's got an unbelievable goal, but his back's, I mean, stiffen his arse into people. Yeah, I know. Look at him, that midfield, what they would have had. I know Billy Gilmore's got injured, but Billy Gilmore, Scott McTominay, and John McGinn is a pretty good midfield. John McGinn, he's one of these fellas, but when he's bad, when he's as bad as he does look like a pub player. No, when he's off, he looks shocking. And again, if you watch him long enough, and every well again the stats are when he's in the team week and we go well if these managers are like him I don't see him play many bad games no but when he's bad I don't see him you'd have him in your team

1:23:55Gary Neville: wouldn't you I was talking about it was a cold joke you'd have him in your group of course absolutely and it's no surprise Villa are doing well and he's at the forefront of that so big question Scotland have never made it out of the group of a World Cup can they make it out of the World Cup group with well this is their best chance it depends I mean it's got to beat Haiti yeah Yeah, but they have to do that. But what I'm saying is Morocco are a decent team. Oh, yeah. I think the Morocco game is they just can get something from the Morocco game. Well, four points will get you in that eight. That's what I'm saying.

1:24:23So I just think that's... You know one of the big worries as well is the keepers. The keepers are not starters for their teams. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I think going into a World Cup with your keeper who's not, like, playing every single week, you know what I mean? I just feel... Oh, I think they're really up against it. They're massively up against it. Again, the one thing you look at all the players and they've done great, but they're like really quality, don't they? I like that Ganondog. Ganondog, you know, he's the difference in respect of that winger. I know we're talking about Scottish footballers, but he's the kind of winger, he's at Bournemouth, he's the kind of winger, he does something different to the Reds.

1:25:01He'll try and take someone on, he'll do a bit. So you're hoping that he can find some form in that, but obviously, of course, they're up against it. And obviously, we'll go back to the conditions for Scotland as well. What about England's struggling? Nice. They're not born for the heat. They might have to play with those hats on.

1:25:20Gary Neville: What do they wear up there? Those little bonnets with the ginger hair coming down the side. You know what, it's just, again, magnificent for them to get there. And you don't know. You know, they might be able to beat A team, maybe. I don't know. If Morocco slip out, I'll get a draw. Can you imagine if they did? They could go in as the third. They could go in as the third team, right? And Brazil might have already won their first two matches and Brazil start rotating, you never know. And when they made a big mistake, what World Cup was it? David Neri scored the goal. 82. Massive mistake. David Neri scored a bam, 4-1.

1:25:58Beautiful goal. Love that World Cup.

1:26:01Gary Neville: Who was Scotland's last goal scorer at a World Cup final? We've got a question for you. Who was it? Ali McCoyst. Was it Ali McCoyst? That was the Euros in 96, I think. No, it's not. What year was it? What year was it? 1998. I've got it. John Collins. Did Craig Bailey score against Brazil? Craig Burley. Yeah. There you go, he's got it. He said Craig Burley just now. I was telling all the other ones, I just had lots of noise in my ear. Craig Burley. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet.

1:27:02If you want a hand, our podcast specialists are there to help you launch with confidence. This is podcast advertising without barriers. Get started at acast.com slash advertise.

1:27:18Gary Neville: Kieran, let's go, let's go. We've got the big board. This is it. Kieran, I've been asleep, girl. Who makes you up? There's countries missing. This is where England win the World Cup. Do you want a hand, but it looks heavy. Where are you going, Kieran? We're putting a budget, hey, someone just splashed out in the budget. Put it a bit closer. Chop it off. What's with the tracking? It's on, it's our... Do you like it, not? What's that? Should I take my thing off? I'm boiling, by the way. I've got a fucking wetsuit on. What's going on with this? Are we doing this or what? I've got a flight tomorrow.

1:27:59How old are you when you stop wearing shell suits with hoods?

1:28:08Hey, that is a long time for the players to be away, innit? Oh, unbelievable. And they're away for ten days before they go over, innit?

1:28:16Gary Neville: Right, here is the board for the World Cup from the round of 32 onwards to the final. The round of 32 has been populated by our production team. So it's Pat, basically, from our production team, decided... that he thinks these 32 teams are going to get to the final positions, the final knockout phases. Let's predict what will think and happen from there. That's interesting. He's got Scotland. So, basically, Scotland are in it, are they? Yeah, he's got Scotland. Has he just done that for, like, old times? The viewers. What's that? Is it me? What's this? Sorry, who's first? How's this point? Is it a competition?

1:28:47Are we doing predictions? You're basically going to predict. We're all predicting. We're going to go game by game. I'm going to go Morocco to beat Germany. You're going to win Morocco? Yeah, but everybody's got to do their bit. I'll go with the majority.

1:29:00Gary Neville: I... You've got who? Morocco to beat Germany? It's majority. I do think Morocco will beat Germany. Oh, fuck. I do. Oh, this is going to take you long in this fucking game. I do. I'm with you right here. I think, honestly... They all have a vote. Obviously, they have a vote, lads. Do we know where that game... So, can we have some information? Exactly. Do we know where that game will be played, more than likely? Morocco and Germany, you need to give us this information. Because if it's in a hot, boiling place... Morocco's got to be famous. I think Morocco. But why are you anti-Germany? Do you not think Germany will be strong?

1:29:29Gary Neville: No, I'm not saying. Not anti-Germany, sorry. But do you not think that's strong? No? No. But is that where they end up getting to a semi? You can never really... Remember when people say you can't write Germany off in a tournament? But, like, I think you can. I don't mean to win it, but I'm talking about... I'd go for Germany. I've got here Germany's... It's in Boston. I've got Germany's team that, on paper, Neuer, Kimmich, Tarr, Schlotterbeck, Raam Pavlic Pavlovich I'm unit Gretzka Sané Musiala verse Havertz Sané Musiala verse Havertz I've been in the fucking semi-finals of the Champions League and have it scored in the final So you're in Germany So what do we do what do we do when it's Germany or Germany care and you decide I've just made it up you decide Go Germany Yeah!

1:30:21Honestly, he was not going to go against Karen Roy.

1:30:24Gary Neville: He'd be hanging from that beam up there. Right. So, shall we do this side now or do all that side first? We'll do this side first. We'll go on France. France, 100%. France, 100%. Mexico against Bosnia. Sweden. Mexico have got to the World Cup the last eight times and they've got to the last 60 and seven of those times. Ooh! Yes, Kieran. And it might be hot as well, Gal. Put Mexico. Yeah, we'll go Mexico. Netherlands. Netherlands, yeah. We're happy with that. Mexico, Bosnia was in Los Angeles. Did Scotland beat to get Colombia? No, they just lost. Oh, sorry, Netherlands. Last-minute goal for my Netherlands.

1:31:11And then we go to Croatia go again, but all the other. Oh, no, to reckon The couple is a little bit though never I don't always come up short. Yeah, yeah, no, no Croatia, but we still give it to Croatia just for being dogged and yeah Just so tough then

1:31:34Come on Spanier in. And then we're... USA-Canada.

1:31:41Gary Neville: That's a massive game, by the way. I think Canada's beaten Jesse Marsh. Jesse Marsh, he's done so well with Canada. They beat him in that tournament. Oh, lads, you love Jesse Marsh. Oh, my... The results! His sessions are unbelievable. They fucking never won a game. Two lads come back and go, his sessions are unbelievable. What was he doing? I've never seen his sessions. He went up to see him at Leeds. He's getting back. So at the end of the game... That fucking makes me laugh at him. He's watching, that means he's watching at like 10.36 on a Friday night, Leeds have played someone. We've brought Rodrigo into the studio at the end when we used to be on the pitch with Kelly.

1:32:21Gary Neville: Do you remember the Friday night football? Yes. Who I was at Valencia with. And I asked him the questions and I said, what's Jesse like? Oh, his sessions are fantastic, he's great. And he's obviously watched that and remembered it. The sessions... Try winning a game! Could win a game, but Leeds, but the sessions are great. Thumbs up. I think Canada... I do. They've done well to qualify for the World Cup. USA have not done well under Potts at all. He's been linked to... He's done well to qualify for the World Cup. Where's this game, USA, Canada? Where is that? Where's the game? Oh, Potts, yeah.

1:32:53Gary Neville: San Francisco. Oh, they're lovely. I can't see Canada. What's that tournament? Is it the Euros or what is it? The Gold Cup. Go for the CONCAT or something. It's a bit emotional, this, but Maurizio came on the show. He said quarterfinals is par. That's where he's going to get to. What did he say, Albatross? USA. I think USA. Let's go USA for Maurizio. Part's got Irish backgrounds. Yeah. Belgium, Belgium. Tell you what. I think Belgium are going to do all right. No, they're getting promised Rolls-Royces if they... LAUGHTER Roller! Roller! If they win, there's no way they're losing to Belgium. Belgium, they're in Seattle, which is very cool, as we know.

1:33:35Gary Neville: We visit Seattle, don't we? Belgium, man. Belgium, come on. Belgium could be a sneaky one. We're going to go to the other side now. Go to the other side? Yeah, go to the other side, yeah. Right. What a game that is, by the way. Brazil, Japan. Wow. Japan, but unbelievable. Yeah, everybody likes Japan. What are you saying? Japan are dark horses. But if they're up against Brazil... Brazil and Senegal. I'm not going against Brazil. Brazil and Senegal. I'm not sure. Senegal. We can't take Bajan out of this. It's got to be Senegal, honey. You know something? Senegal. Senegal. Senegal. Go on the Sens.

1:34:11Then we are... Boom, boom, boom. South Africa. South Korea. South Korea. They took South Africa out already.

1:34:18Gary Neville: That's a big one, though. That's in Mexico. I'm going South Korea. Yeah. Ivory Coast, you? No, Ivory Coast, I'm going. I'm a fitness freak. I don't go for the Broncos. I don't have any coach, but it's up to you, Kieran. Roy, you're on. Kieran, Ivory Coast, Ivory Coast. Roy, you're on. I would have gone South Korea, but... Ivory Coast, 2v2 in... England, Norway, wow. Ooh, Erdegard, Haaland. Do you know something? Is that a potential Iceland? Haaland and Erdegard? No, they're... Norway are bigger than Iceland. I know they are. Where's that game? England, Norway, Atlanta. Is it hot in Atlanta? It's hot apparently.

1:34:59So we should be doing that in Norway. England would beat Norway. Let's go north. I'm not going against England here. I'm not going against England but it's a tough game. Argentina, Uruguay. Come on Uruguay, I want Argentina. Uruguay. Argentina. I've gone off with Argentina. Turkey. What a Egypt player, have you? Truthfully, that. I'd go Turkey. I mean, they got the semi, I think, in the AFCON. I'd go Turkey. Seriously? Not sure where that one got. Turkey.

1:35:31Gary Neville: Put it back if you want. No, no, no, I'll go with you, Roy. Is it Turkey or Egypt then? We'll go with Turkey. Portugal, Ghana. Let's not try and do this quick because we've had enough. I want to take my time. We've got loads of points. Two minutes ago, you used to get a fight to catch. I know, I want to see. Portugal. Bruno. Bruno's lifting that war coming. I fancy Bruno. Most assists in the tournament. Switzerland, Austria. But they'll come second, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, that is a tough one. That is a tough one. Take your time with this one, now. Switzerland, Austria, I think Switzerland. I'm going to Switzerland with Xhaka.

1:36:09Battle of the Olympics. You think so?

1:36:11Gary Neville: Yeah. What do you think? I couldn't tell you. Mmm. Is it Ralf Ranić yesterday? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you what. Go on, then. That's a 50-50, that. Switzerland are always there, aren't they? Always. They're always there. Always in the mix, man. Always, yeah. Switzerland. Go on, righty. Already stepped up to the plate. Switzerland. Right, here we go. I forgot what you've said. Quick, quick. Quick. What a show we got. No concentrating on this. Germany, France. I'm going France. France. Sorry, Germany. I'd go Mexico. Yeah, I think that could be a blockbuster of a game, that. If that. One of the best games in the World Cup, Argentina, Holland won it.

1:36:50Gary Neville: Oh, my God. He won it in Blast the Ball. Oh, my God. We've had that game, haven't we? We were there. Total striker played United. Legos, yeah. Afrika, brilliant. Mexico. Yeah, Mexico. Yeah, I think we've gone Mexico. Perhaps Rude's the coach in the Netherlands. Look after Rude a bit. Croatia, Spain with this. Spain, surely Spain, not surely Spain. I think Croatia. Croatia's experience. USA, Belgium. Where's the USA game? Where is that? Where's that game, USA-Belgium? Seattle, all cool, cool weather. Belgium. Cool weather in Seattle. But we've got to give Potts to the quarter-finals, cos that's what he's saying on the show.

1:37:28Gary Neville: He said pardon me. Yeah, he said... Belgium team... I'm having Belgium. Belgium team, Catois, Castagne... Yeah, Belgium. I love Belgium.

1:37:39Gary Neville: Telemans, Inanna, Doku, De Bruyne, Trossard... Oh, goodnight. Goodnight. Go on then, Brazil. Senegal? Yeah, let's go Brazil. Brazil. Yeah. Oh! Still eight rounds to go. England, the heavy coast. Yeah. England. Where's that game? England, the heavy coast? Mexico City, wow. Oh! Roasting. Altitude, altitude. And... They get an old hand this round anyway, so it doesn't matter, yeah. Yeah, Argentina, Turkey. Argentina was surely short. Do you think Argentina? Yeah, Argentina. Yeah, I see. Messi! And Portugal. Messi! Portugal, that's a great game. Or Portugal. Portugal winning that. Argentina. Wow. I'm telling you.

1:38:19Gary Neville: Yeah. Geez. Have we... We've not got a shock team here going through. We always... Who's missing it? Mexico's a shock team. A little bit, maybe. No, France are doing it. Just put France in there. Spain, Belgium. Yeah, Spain, Belgium. It's getting easier. Oh, here we go. Are we knocking England out? England, Brazil. I'm not sure about this Brazilian team. Are we keeping England in? Have we got Brazilian squad here or not? Can I tell you where this game is? Go on. Might influence your thinking. It's in Miami. You could have said anywhere in America. No, Miami. A big South American contingent. Yeah, exactly.

1:39:05Miami, big South American influence and hot.

1:39:09Gary Neville: What Brazilian attackers have we got? We've got the squad. Cunha, Rafinha, Vinicius, Thiago, Guimaraes, Casemiro. You said Neymar, didn't you? Neymar's not fair. He got injured, didn't he? Did he make it? He got injured. Well, the front three are Rafinha, Vinicius and Cunha. Wow. That could be a problem for us. Midfield. Midfield, you've got Casemiro and Bruno Guimaraes. When Harry Maguire's watching that match, I want me to be fucking delighted. He's saying, yeah, fucking sir. You look right. The Brazilians, like red arrows running past them. I just don't see England beating a Brazilian. England never beats anyone they're not supposed to do.

1:39:48They have to in the last few years.

1:39:49Gary Neville: They have to beat Germany and England. At home. At home. I know they're not playing at home. It's tough for us. Brazil? We've got to fancy Brazil. I'm not going against us, though. You're being childish now. Get your professional head on. You think England can beat Brazil in Miami? in the heat yeah yeah I do yeah and we've been going stir crazy in the hotel we've been there three or four weeks on stage we won't care this is a massive game by the way that's a tough I hope that doesn't happen like what have you gone Brazil did you put Brazil because we were 2-2 me and Rice yeah I'm gone with Brazil yes good lad I think Portugal beat Argentina I do oh lads you're in Cucullan Portugal this is Ronaldo's last chance.

1:40:39You need a bit of... Ronaldo's last chance. This is it. Against Messi in the club. Messi, Ronaldo. He'd be 45 by the end of the tournament. Fucking that long. I think Portugal beat Argentina. Alrighty. I just... I hope Argentina win it.

1:40:53Gary Neville: Do you want Portugal's team? Go on. Who's in it? Cancelo, Ruben Dias, Nuno Mendes, João Neves, Vitinha, Bruno Fernandes, Bernardo Silva... Say it like that song. Do you remember their group matches? There's no way they lose. Yeah. Ireland beat them. Is Jao Felix still going? And Ireland got a result in Portugal. How old would Jao Felix be? So you're all getting... You're getting brainwashed by the names. The front three, to be fair, of Bernardo Silva... Long season. What's he called? Jao Felix and Ronaldo. It's... Felix! It's ageing, innit? Hey, lads. Forget Portugal. I'm telling you. Yeah, but then what were you saying about Argentina?

1:41:30What's Argentina... The presence. Where's that game?

1:41:34Gary Neville: The team for Argentina, Paredes, McAllister and Fernandes, and then you've got Messi, Alvarez, Almada. It's a toss-up. He said he wants it. I think Ronaldo, I think Portugal. I'm going Portugal. I've got a feeling Ronaldo's just got sort of like... He's just like a... You saw him walking off in... Phenomenon. You saw him walking off in... Messi, what's Messi? Oh, he's a phenomenon as well. But he's had his phenomenal moment. He's had his day in the sun. OK, here we go. No, no, lad. Portugal beating Brazil. Roy, you thought Argentina would have gone through in Portugal, but I think Portugal. Yeah.

1:42:09Gary Neville: I think Portugal beat Brazil. France are playing... I think France are playing Brazil in the final. I think France are playing Portugal. I think France are playing Brazil. I think France are playing Brazil. Teza, what do you think? France are in. France are definitely in. I've gone Portugal. I've gone Brazil. Who have you gone, Jay? I think Brazil will turn up. Ancelotti. Ancelotti, I'm going Ancelotti. I forgot about Ancelotti. It's up to you. Cheers. Brazil. Go on. Right. What a good final that would be, wouldn't it? Did you ever go against Roy at any stage? Yeah, Portugal. Yes, you do. I don't care.

1:42:47Them games are good.

1:42:49Gary Neville: Ancelotti versus Dechamp in the final. Dechamp, he's finishing, isn't it? This is his last game. That'll be his last game. There's something that tells me that he's going to write what happened three, four years ago in Qatar. Thank you, Gary. I feel like what we watched last game. So, you're going for France to win it? I think so. I think, yeah. I think France. Brazil, I'm going. France. Wow. France it is. I love that. I love that little move. Lovely. Well set up, that was nice. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. We've got some quick predictions. Why does it have to be quick?

1:43:26Gary Neville: Because it's ten past nine. I'm at four. We've got some quick predictions who will win the World Cup. We've done it France Who will be on agreement with France or we are? Who will be the top scorer Mbappe? He takes up does he take the penalties? Well, if they got they've got They've got a Lisa they've got Dembele The belly-tanker penalty takes in the effort actually if Paris tonight I'm gonna go I recane top score, you know I think that Mbappe's got a chance. He takes penalties and carries. I'm going to go Harry Kane. Kane, Kane. Haaland? Dembele. Dembele. Do you think Dembele? OK. That's what I said.

1:44:16Dembele!

1:44:17Gary Neville: Golden Glove winner. Oh. Find out who the keepers are. Magnan for France. Alisson for Brazil. That could be one, couldn't it? Do you think so, lads? He's not the same. Martinez for Argentina. Jordan does all right for us.

1:44:42Gary Neville: Who did we have in the semi-finals? We had the Spanish as well, didn't we? Simon. I'd go for the France keeper. France had a clean sheet. French goalkeeper, Mignon. I'm going Jordan Pickford. I want it on record. I'm going Jordan Pickford. And I'm not even joking. Don't get us down. Jordan Pickford, Mignon for France. OK, we've got community questions. Which country will surprise us? Japan. You've got them going out in the second round. No, no, but they surprise us up to that point.

1:45:15Gary Neville: Do you know something, righty? No, but if you go up with silver and a couple of games in the group, I thought... They've got everything. That was one of the best performances I've seen at Wembley by a team, in terms of teamwork and playing together. So I won't be surprised then. I think Japan could get to semi-finals. I'm telling you, they could get to semi-finals. Norway, could Norway? I'm not going to say Norway. They've surely with the players... Were they up against England, were they? Yeah, put a main panel on that. I know. Can I mention someone like a Garner or somewhere? Ivory Coast against England?

1:45:47Gary Neville: I'm going to go with Norway. They could have a little fight with Harland. They play England. But we don't know that, I was just guessing. Do you think Noé will get through against England? No, we're saying they might play England. We don't know how they're planned. They just picked who they thought were going to play. No, it's definitely happened.

1:46:06Which we should be... Harland should be up there as a goal scorer as well. So you can't blow him out, you know what I mean? I'm having Harland and Harry Kane.

1:46:16Gary Neville: I've never watched Haaland play for Norway but I'm imagining because Norway probably won't keep the ball that much in that type of heat would he be like more dangerous on the counter-attacks if you think about Erdogan he always a city that always camped you said this years ago didn't you that camped in the other team's box and he never he has done more the last year or two with the way he play but this would be the most he'd get to counter-attack but that's a great it's not a great way of playing if you do it properly with him I know we mentioned England earlier after conditions but if you're just sitting in sitting and just resting but England can't counter-attack through the centre forward of course not you know what um but that's what he said the manager has to find a different way you know just going back to remember the Everton game when when when he just got the ball from the centre and just went all the way through it reminded me of school we had a player called Henry Leville and he he was so good he just he just got the ball from the centre circle just went and scored it's just like that's how easy he can score that was some goal that night right Right, so we're going Japan and Norway.

1:47:12Gary Neville: Japan and Norway are our two big shocks for the tournament. Who do we think will be the biggest underachievers at the World Cup? USA? No, because how can they be underachievers? Really? Really? I mean, there's not much expected. Because you can see in it that when you saw Maurizio Pochettino's face, he looked like he's... I know, there's not much expected though of him anyway. I mean, there's not much like... If they got out of the group, which they... Germany? Germany, I think it's a good shout. I think Germany's a good shout. Yeah, Germany's a good shout. I think they could be. Yeah. I don't know.

1:47:46Germany's a good shout. You think Engle Roy's still thinking?

1:47:48Gary Neville: Oh. This could take a while. So, what was the question? What about Argentina? What about Argentina is a little bit of an outside? Sometimes you've won it, and then you come in with an ageing team. Ottomendi, obviously, the lads in midfield, you've got him, McAllister. Do you see them? Do you see them really? They could get done, couldn't they? They could get done, but I just think I think they're fucking animals. Horrible, yeah. I'm just being reminded France got done in 2002 after they won it. I'm going to go Argentina for potentially biggest underachievers. Are you? Yeah, I think it could just be...

1:48:20Gary Neville: You've won it, you've done everything. So biggest disappointment? It's just his underachievers, I mean, yeah. Biggest disappointment, yeah. I think it's going to be hard for Scotland. No, I think Scotland... Underachievers might be not getting out of the group. No, no, no. I'm really disappointed. That'd be amazing if they could get out of the group. That's what I mean. I think if Scotland don't get out of the group, that's not an underachievement, honestly. Hey, this is an interesting one. I read this and do you know something? I thought it was interesting because it was interesting how England's squad got announced.

1:48:51Gary Neville: But Maceo Potosino has defended himself after being criticised over the way he informed players how they made the 26-man squad. With those not making the team receiving an email rather than a phone call, what are your thoughts? And I thought as I read that, and I saw the England stuff unfold that night when it said that Harry wasn't there and then obviously Phil Ford and my partner started to break. And I thought, there has never been a good way of doing this, has there? Have we ever seen a good way of doing it whereby you're not upsetting someone? I saw everything in my time in terms of sort of like how you do it.

1:49:25Gary Neville: And the only way you can do it, I think a phone call is best, to be fair. I don't think an email's right. But I think a phone call on the... I've had them both. But right, I think the squad being announced at, say, 12. I think you ring up the players between 9 and 11 in the morning, that window. And that's happened before. And then what happens is they can't get hold of a couple of players. And then they announce it and they go, oh, he never followed me. He never followed me. Cara, to be fair, one thing I think... And if you do the day before, it gets leaked out anyway. People will mock it in terms of how we did it.

1:49:50Gary Neville: To be fair, we did. We told players that the squad was being announced on the 15th of June, as an example, 15th of May, right? You need to be available between 9 and 11 for phone calls to take whether you've made it or you've not made it in a 9 to 11 window on that day. You knew that players had to be available in that window. And at least then they're being told they're in it or they're not being in it. But it was a case of at least you knew you were sort of informing them of that. The worst one, I think, is where you take a 30-man squad, you've not named your 26, to say like a pre-tournament thing, and then you drop four back on the plane home and they have to leave your camp.

1:50:27Gary Neville: I mean, right. Oh, my goodness. The manga. That was unbelievable. That was like... Honestly, it sounds crazy. I felt like there was... Sapped your energy. Did I sap the energy of the group? Oh, it was awful. Horrible. Awful. It was awful, honestly. Because, to be fair, one of the players was Gazza, who was... But did you not have an idea who would be leaving? Obviously not the Gazza one, not the big shot, but the other ones. Were you like... Do you know something, the biggest thing for me was that Gazza was massive and everyone loved him. It was just a shock to everybody because he was like our best player, almost, in what's going on.

1:50:57Gary Neville: But Phil got left out. But Phil had been told three days before that he was in. Wow. Been told he was in. Played a manager, obviously. His assistant. Well, his assistant was... Yeah. And he made a late change. And if you remember, it's a ton. I've been to Graeme Lasso about this last week. We played five at the back. And Darren Anderson and Bex were the right wing backs. And I was like a backup if they needed me to be there. On the left, we had Graeme Lasso and it was Phil. And we had no other left wing backs. Andy Inchcliffe was injured. He left as well, but Phil was always going to be ahead of him.

1:51:31He took Rio Ferdinand, didn't he?

1:51:33Gary Neville: He decided to take Rio Ferdinand and Merce as second left wing-backs. Merce ended up against Argentina, I think. He ended up playing left wing-back because Graham got cramped. Merce ended up playing left wing-back. Phil got told he made a nod. I remember speaking, John Gordon was a lovely man. I remember the day after the squad was announced and John walked past me in the corridor. I said, you told him he was in, John. He said he changed his mind, he said it's a massive mistake. He was a genuine guy, John. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. He genuinely thought he was settling Phil down. And he was helping him, yeah, yeah.

1:52:11Gary Neville: Phil was a bit, yeah, everyone was in there. Yeah, so it was absolute like, oh, my God. It's the worst. And then Nicky was one of the others. Now, Nicky was probably more on the edge than maybe he does, but still, Nicky and Phil leave, so me and Scholes were left there with Bex. Nicky and Phil leave and Gaz are, I mean, Gaz are obviously left and it was like, I mean, all hell broke loose. All hell broke loose. The whole hotel went to... So nobody saw that one coming? No. Not in a million years, you think Gazza was... Even with his... Never. On the vineyard problem. He was still partying. But Gazza, do you know something?

1:52:41Gary Neville: Sounds crazy. You're at Thomas Tuchel. He was still partying. He was, but you're at Thomas Tuchel. You don't bring a Gazza on a 30-man squad or 31-man squad. It was 27 players, it was 22 back then or 23. You don't bring Gazza to the manga if you're thinking of leaving him out. But maybe he wasn't before they went out. And then if he was out and about... Did he get injured in the warm-up game? No, what happened was... Was he partying? Yeah, a little bit. He was having fun, but you knew what Gazza was bringing. You know, Gazza after a game would have a bit of fun, but you knew that was going to happen with him.

1:53:09Gary Neville: It wasn't like this was a shock. Yeah, but the thing is, Gal, Glen Oddle, you speak to Glen Oddle, Glen Oddle told him early in the season... Yeah, yeah, yeah, he did. I'm not going to go to Glen, I'm just saying... I'm going to need you like this here. When you get to here, I need you to be this fit. Yeah. You know, he gave him an opportunity, because like Gazza walks into that team if he's just fit, all you need to do is keep himself fit. You're on with the phone calls. I think if you upset a player but you ring him and weeks later, months later, the player will obviously be fed up with you, but there will be an element, at least he called me, there would be a bit of that.

1:53:38Yeah. That does soften a little bit. Not at the time, but...

1:53:42Gary Neville: Have you ever had any of us had a moment like that where we've been called and told we're not in the squad? 96. Yeah. Who told you? Terry? Yeah. Terry. And 92. Like Graham, Graham Taylor. Yeah, won a golden boot that time. I walked into his office, like, I floated in there. I came out like, fuck it, like that. Jesus, what more can I do? Did you ask him why? Did he explain or just... No, he just, you know, it was, because at the time, Al, Al just broke in and Al was just, I think Al was still at Southampton. And he said he's going to bring him in. You know what I mean? What can you do? I didn't know what to say.

1:54:21What can you say? You know, what can you say? You think, you know, people tell you things, if you're scoring goals and you're scoring goals in this division, in the first division you're doing well, you'll be fine. You'll be going, didn't go. That's the one I can never, I can't get over that because I was thinking even when that happened in 92, obviously I missed 90 because when we played against United and I was injured before I got into that cup final and Bobby Robson didn't know how fit I was, so he didn't take me. I said, it's fine because I got 92, didn't go 94, didn't qualify in 96. You know what I mean?

1:54:55Venice phoned me before, said, I'm going to probably leave you out for a couple, because I'm going to look at some people. And he bought Les and Robbie. And then, what's it called? He said, I'll speak to you, because I know you scored off the bench for England. And then I never heard from him until they got back from Hong Kong. And then he said, listen, I'm going to go with them two. Devastated. And then injured in 98.

1:55:19Gary Neville: I mean it's amazing right when you think like the competition that you had when you think about we've got now like Watkins and Tony at the second and third centre forwards and you think you had like Shearer, Sheringham, Fowler in your period Owen, Collymore, Ferdinand, Sutton, Cole, Andy Cole did you say Fowler? Robbie Fowler you think about those players that you had against you in that period like those players drive did you have to believe did you have to believe that you were better absolutely absolutely every stage i thought i'm i'm at least i'm at par and with these guys i'm fighting these guys no i mean but the the competition yeah that you had yeah like six or seven there that i think that's what blasted everybody everybody was driving because of that you know obviously shira was at the tip of it you know then teddy came in and teddy just let's face That was a beautiful partnership, the way they complemented each other.

1:56:15But then the rest of us were just battling it out. Les didn't get a pick, did he? No, Les was in that squad. In 96? Yeah. He didn't get on.

1:56:22Gary Neville: It was in 98, though, was it? Yeah, Les was in 98. Les was getting ready to come on before Betts got said, oh. Les was like, sit down, Les. I always go on about myself and I'm so gutted. But then Les has got so close. Les was in 96, didn't get on. 98 didn't get on you know so Les has got even more more of a story than me but like it's it's it's one of those that way even when you're on holiday after you've been told you know you can't it's you can't get over it it's just like you know I'm gutted I wanted to be there then you watch it it's hard to watch but most of you say to a striker when you scored on them goals going what more could you've done well you can't do anymore and that's why I said is it sometimes you mightn't fit is it something like that I don't know Graham Taylor I wouldn't want to say that about Graham Taylor but just the whole set up and you go listen but you were part of the documentary the greatest documentary i don't remember do i not like that no i'm not one of a beat that you know but like it was um i was desperate for it you know it's probably why i'm such a fan of watching england tour i'm just desperate to go i wanted to go so badly well that's why we're bringing you this tournament right it's new york for this time we wouldn't you know you're in the squad again right I'm in a squad again.

1:57:33We look after you.

1:57:35Gary Neville: Thanks, mate. Well, Cara, are you going to come over and see us at some point? Yeah, I've got Skybet on my case. The ratings have gone down. LAUGHTER

1:57:46Well done. Nice to see you.

1:58:15We'll see you next time.

1:58:29brand in their own words, in their own voice. It doesn't interrupt the experience. It's part of it. With Acast, you can access the world's largest podcast marketplace. Choose the right shows, the right audiences, the right format. Then watch the data tell you it worked. You're not buying impressions. You're buying influence. Learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise.

1:58:55Gary Neville: Thanks for listening and thanks to our partners on Clothing. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode.