Coleman: Everton’s 60k Legend, Ireland Stories With Roy & What's Next? | Stick to Football EP 148

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1:25Is he the best£60 ,000 signing ever? Who? Probably the only£60 ,000 signing ever. That was his song, wasn't it? Everton,£60 ,000, Seamus Coleman. Yeah,£60 ,000. From where? From Everton. But where from? From Shamrock. No, Sligo. Sligo. Sligo. Sligo Rovers, I think. You know what? Just check that. I'm sure Paul Cook was his manager.

1:46Gary Neville: Who was the most expensive right back this summer that's been sold? The last couple of years. Who's paid massive money for a right back or left back? Cook Araya was£65 million, wasn't he? Or something like that was a big money one. Remember City spent£100 million in one transfer window on full backs? But who's the most expensive full back? How much did Hakimi cost? PSG, maybe. 2007 to 2012, Paul Cook was at Sligo. Oh, so he wasn't there with him? When did he sign for Everton, Seamus? Oh, God, was that about... 2010? What did it have been? So if he was, then he was. I'm not... Yeah, we're just checking.

2:24I'm sure Paul Cook was his manager.

2:29He would have been. Yeah. Because he transferred in 2009. OK. Oh, 2009, was it? Yeah. Bring it up. He's had a few goals at me when he was a player. When I was at Ireland. Would he? Hey, say. Yes, say.

2:45Gary Neville: Bring it in. Good to see you. Good to see you, please. Yes. That one there, sir. Seamus, nice to see you. Nice to see you, Mariah. This is not a studio that respects right backs, unfortunately. Yes, we do. Seamus, you're the only person I've ever seen that Roy Keane has... No, I've hugged you, surely. He doesn't hug either. His nickname was the hedgehog.

3:10Gary Neville: He can't hug him. I'm using his own line there, because he said that. Did he say that to you? No, that's what you do. People take my lines all the time. No, we got on our eight ride, didn't we? Most of the time. You're not sure. Yeah, we did. You came at me a few times. No, we had two, I think. Was it two? Yeah. What, two falling out? You came at me... Did I slide again? No, I said something, whatever. But also on the game, but not stopping crosses. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was Sarah be away. Right, the angle where the guy was crossing it, and you were worried about somebody else, and I went, no, that's...

3:41And you came back at me with some stuff. Yeah. Was it... Hi, guys. Was it heated or was it... Oh, he obviously apologised the next day.

3:53Gary Neville: Go on, tell us the story, Seamus. I had a similar one at Coventry. Do you remember? No, I think it was about... The argument in Serbia, you're saying? Oh, the other one. Yeah, the other one. The other one. No, the Serbia one was, yeah. Where the guy was crossing it from. They kept switching it out, didn't he? That's right, yeah. I can't remember the left back, and I wasn't getting out tight enough because there was someone coming on the underlap as well. And you're having a go at me for not getting out tight enough. But I had to go back saying, if I go out tight, he's just slipping it down the side in the underlap.

4:24Yeah. So anyway, we had it in the dressing room at half-time, didn't we? And it was fine. Yeah, that was cool. So we went out, second half, you might not remember this bit. I've gone out. Like you said, bang. Slipped it down the side. Johnny Walters give away a penalty and they score.

4:44LAUGHTER I don't actually believe what you said. But, erm... What was the scoring of the game? We got a result, didn't we? I think we got 2-2 in the end. But we... Yeah, but that's John Walter's fault. LAUGHTER

5:01Gary Neville: What does had it mean, Seamus, after? What do you mean, just having an argument? Nah, nah. Yeah, it was a bit heated. But I think my argument, whatever, the point you're trying to make is... I think you were worried about a player I said, No, he's not the danger. Yeah, you did, yeah. Somebody else was the problem. That's what I was trying to make to you. And, yeah, no, you had to go back. That's fine. But we always... Yeah, but the funny thing, obviously that's going to happen in the dressing room, but you move on quickly. I think the other one, what was the other one about? Did I slag Everton players out or something?

5:26I told you about being injured. Remember there was always... Yeah, so... Yeah, that was it. Martinez was the manager. Not turning up. Martinez was the manager, yeah. I'll pour your tea first. Yeah, no, that was... I think I'd missed a couple of Everton games. and then I missed an Ireland game on the Tuesday, but I'd missed a couple of Everton games before it. I missed the Ireland game on the Tuesday, but then I played on a Saturday. But I'd missed like two weeks for Everton before that. Played on a Saturday and then we were in the next month and I think maybe you might have said, it's like a miracle when...

6:05Everton players turn up. But that was against Martinez because he was always saying, Everton players they're always injured they're always that so you came you kept looking for me didn't you I did foolishly yeah foolishly because I came because I'm on the bus maybe on the way there you're on your phone or whatever and I've seen it a miracle when the Everton players turn up so I was like fuming I was like I've missed three Everton games I would never miss a game whatever but like you said you were coming for Martinez at the time and I came for Roy I think you were setting up cones maybe and I came over probably Probably sitting up corners.

6:39That's all I do. No, and I came over to Roy and said, listen, I've seen this, whatever. I'm not happy, blah, blah. I think you did say I wasn't having a go at you, whatever. That was fine. It was done. Well, I thought it was done. We had a meeting that evening, just a team meeting, and then Roy came to me after. Can I see you after the meeting? Oh, my God, his eyes were like this small. I was like, oh, my God. So you pulled me out, didn't you, to the side, and we had a discussion. Did we, yeah. We shook hands and that was it. But I thought that was it done and then I seen it when he called me at the end of the meeting.

7:13No, but I think I said, don't be pulling me on the training. Was it something like... Yeah, so yeah. If you've never worded me, yeah. Yeah, he said, you don't pull me on the training pitch. But I mean... It was nothing. Me, yeah. I mean, them things now, like I find people would probably not speak to you for two or three days after it, but like with Roy...

7:32Gary Neville: He doesn't like right-back shame. He's just right-backs. Did that one hurt you, though, because you are such an honest player who would fight for everything to play? Yeah, I think that's maybe why I thought, right, I'm upset about that or whatever. But, I mean, ultimately, that's why you've seen it. But it's good, though, isn't it? No, yeah. It's cool, yeah. It may be the training pitch, but what you're talking about there, you feel like someone's questioning your... Integrity. It's not even your ability. Italy you'll think I'd never miss a game for Everton and someone questioned that I think you're right if someone said that about me you can say I know you're talking about the training pitch but the thing that's riled you up I think that probably doesn't rile enough players up but every time we hit a game with Ireland and Martina obviously was the manager he kept saying oh Shavis is struggling Darren all the Everton players everyone was struggling so every time I say the Everton players are trying to turn up at the hotel I'd be like they'd be on crutches or on the wheelchair that's the image he was giving so that was I was having a dig at more probably Everton and their medical team did the rights officer.

8:39Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+. Jimmy Carragher called us a disgrace. Using it in any way to try and get us together again. I was just thinking, I don't think this is bothering people as much as it's bothering me. It was keeping me awake, Jimmy. I'd be on my phone myself, I'd see things. So I know they're seeing the same things about themselves. go find some of the worst things that have been said about me. And then he just looked straight at me, and went, Coleman, any issues? And I thought, he's asked me, so we've been talking, and think maybe things are going on a bit longer or whatever than they should have.

9:17Really? Anyone else? Not one. Not one. Not one person. I do think Everton would be in the championship without him. I think he was that important to us. Probably one of the best nights of his life. Ah, yeah. Amazing. Ah, yeah. It was mine, it was incredible.

9:34Gary Neville: Any clubs at all come in? I've had conversations, but... Would you go to League One and League Two? I'm just asking for a friend. Probably not.

9:45Gary Neville: Seamus, what are you up to? You obviously finished at Everton at the end of last season. What are you doing right now? Not a lot, really. I was home in Ireland for about six weeks there, which was nice, the kids. Because usually when you go back for pre-season, and the kids are just finishing up for their school holidays and stuff. So we've had a nice period back in Ireland, which is really nice. And I've been keeping fit and training and not stressing too much about what's next. I probably was done 100 % at the end of the season until maybe I spoke with the Ireland manager. And I'd done quite well in the Ireland games over the last year.

10:22And we got close to the World Cup, we got knocked out. but he mentioned about me staying on to be part of it for the Euros in a couple of years now. I know that's a long way away. So that kind of planted a seed in my mind. Maybe I could carry on and see what it's like but I mean I spoke with the club and I met the manager and stuff and I went down there and I just felt a bit soon after leaving Everton. It all happened too soon. I didn't want to keep them hanging on because I didn't want to mess them around. You know, they're trying to get their players in. So just went back to Ireland. Which club was that?

10:54It was Sheffield United. Sheffield United. And the manager was great. And I went down and met him. He was really, really good. Like a little bit old school. And the club was a good set up as well. But I didn't want to keep them hanging on. And I decided it just wasn't right. And then just went home, switched off. I'm not kind of stressing either way about it, Gary, to be honest. I'm quite laid back about it. I had a good run. And it was more so... Thanks, Roy. It was more so just the Ireland stuff, really, that maybe has put a bit of doubt in my mind.

11:28Gary Neville: What was the gut feeling bit of Sheffield United that you didn't quite sit right? I think probably just because I've been somewhere for so long and it just came very quick and it was just a big decision to make quite quickly after. I think I finished with Ireland and then they were on the phone a couple of days later and I didn't want it, like you said to me, like you don't want to rush these decisions so it just didn't feel right. But there'll come a point soon, Seamus Wander, where you go, I can't keep waiting, I've not played for two or three months now, that you say, knock it on the head, are you going to give it another three, four, five weeks type of scenario?

12:05Yeah, I mean I'm training, I'm taking over, I'm training myself, it's not the same, I'm trying to stay as fit as I can but yeah, I mean now the window closes, things might open up a little bit but yeah, I mean I'll be making a decision very, very soon and again And if it wasn't for the Ireland stuff, my decision would have been made. Have you been able to train with a team or not? Because it must be hard, I think, doing individual stuff. As you say, it's not like... It's not the same. No, it's not the same. No, it's not the same. No, I've not been training with a team. I'd find it strange going into a team.

12:36Now, I was back home for the six weeks. I'd done a little bit of Gaelic football with the lads back home and trained with the soccer team back home. But just to stay fit, keep your movements going. But in terms of training with a team, I've not. Jamie, I want to ask you about going back to the start. It was Sligo, wasn't it? And you're almost the most famous 60 grand signer. That's your chance. Was Paul Cookie your manager? Yeah, he was. Cookie? Cookie. I played with Cookie at Burnley. Yeah, he was. And he was brilliant for me, Jamie. I went over, I think I was 18 when I signed for Sligo Rovers first.

13:08And my first manager there was Rob MacDonald. and he called me into his office and said, I'd signed for someone before it, but then he came in and he called me in and he was like, listen, we're going to let you go on loan. If you didn't have a year on your contract, then you wouldn't be here type thing. I remember getting in the car. He called the winter off over there. Season starts in February. So it was January time. My dad drove me over and went into the office at Sligo and he said, oh, listen, you're lucky if a year left, like I said, we would let you go otherwise and I got back in the car to my dad and he was like, how did that meeting go?

13:49I was like, oh, all good. You know, our date's starting in two weeks' time and it said nothing to him or said nothing but I thought, oh my God, I'm done here already. And then thankfully for me and luckily for me, about a week later, he just, I don't know, did he get the players he wanted in or not, he left a week later and then Cookie came in and he was one of the most influential managers for me because he probably made me believe in myself from very early and he was tough on you as well. He was really tough on you. He was scouse and he was tough. If you weren't doing things right, he'd let you know.

14:22But he also made me... I want to see his brother.

14:25Gary Neville: He used to look after my house. He plays good football as well, doesn't he? We played Chesterfield, I think it was last week, and they do play. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and he did even with us. I was fit as a fiddle-like and he just wanted me up and down for the 90 minutes. But he just made you feel 10 foot tall. He made you feel like you were going to be a footballer and he gave me a right chance. I actually went on trial to Burnley like a year into Cookies' time and he put me in with his mum and dad and picked me up at the airport and stuff. So he was really, really important for me. Just going back to the club, what club would it be that you think, I'm not going to name a club, but type of club would it be or team that you think would bring you out of, not retirement, but take you away from what you're doing now, which is just waiting, what would it be?

15:12Gary Neville: Is it a Premier League club or does it have to be a Championship club? Would you go to the league? Is there something stopping you? What would it be? I don't think anything stopped me. I do think, listen, at my age, even the last two or three years at Everton, I've not played consistently or regularly due to some injuries and then just not getting picked as well. But I always felt like I probably wasn't hanging around there like a bad smell because I could influence dressing rooms and players and things like that. And I know you'd probably be big on wanting, you should be playing or influencing, but I felt that everything was around long enough that it could have an impact in the dressing room.

15:49So even something like that going forward, I know I can help players. I know I can help improve players. I know I can talk to players. And also, you know, I played for Ireland for the last year, done quite well. So I know if my body's good, I'm not going to play 30, 40 games somewhere, but I know I could come in and help with Tee. It's interesting what you're saying there. I was... I think for different positions, I think you think... I would think differently. I think for the defender, and I'm not trying to implement your decision in any way, but when I was coming to the end, I wanted to finish at Liverpool, but at 35, I thought...

16:25Because I think as a defender, you can cost your team the game, and that feeling, and we've been there as defenders, you know, you're sat on that coach and you've made the mistake. And when you get into that age, I think sometimes with a striker, you come off the bench and you could get the winner. You know what I mean? I just think that was sort of my thing because I've played another year or two, probably. And if I was a different position where you can have a bad game, but you might not cost your team the game. You just haven't played well. I just think it was always in my head. Did you regret it at all?

16:52Did you think that was the right decision? No, but I just think if you're the winger, you can come off the bench. You can just not have a good game and you're not going to cost your team. That was my feeling. I didn't know obviously what you think but that was certainly a man I was in a position where again when I was up at Celtic and I was 34, 35 still had a year left in my contract but physically I was struggling but when I retired you're on about that big decision shit what are you going to do there's loads of options then for the modern players the platforms if you want to go into coaching but when I retired and I left I got closure on my career within 20 seconds so this big fear thing going what are you going to do there's loads going to happen I was relieved I was relieved

17:31Gary Neville: I was relieved. The minute I retired, I felt relief. Because to be fair, I wasn't playing well in the last few months. But what you did in the last two or three years by staying at Everton and maybe playing less games is what I definitely did and I would have done if I was you. Because I think the idea of going playing somewhere else... I knew that if I wasn't playing at United, I had to retire. And I just wonder with that great career you've had with Everton, whether such a massive club, whether... Does any other club in the Championship, does it feel like you want that on your CBO? Is it just a case of, no, I was an Everton player.

17:58Gary Neville: I know you played for Blackpool and Sligo and stuff, but that will always be part of your life but you're an Everton player and just having that single Premier League club on your CV just quite special. But you've got the Irish thing though is that the Irish Euros in two years thing you've got to Ireland. It's a long time Roy isn't it? Yeah it's a long time Tell me about it. I wouldn't even be thinking two years ahead but regarding that Gary it's interesting because like I don't like I was so fortunate and so lucky to and I'm sure everyone that sits here John McGinn last week you know they all say so lucky and fortunate the way my career went bad times along the way but But Jesus, the 16-year-old me couldn't turn down the opportunity to play for a championship club.

18:36I don't have the ego in terms of like, Everton will always be my club, absolutely idolise it. But in terms of the stature of one club man, Premier, I don't really have that. But yeah, Jimmy, like you said as well, there's nothing worse than, especially as a full-back, if you're not at it. Getting exposed.

18:57Gary Neville: Never bought a junior at 20. George Seamus I said last week this actually I said this last week watching Andy Robertson play for Tottenham I thought if there's one position on the pitch now that you can't play when your legs go a little bit and you're older on the pitch I think you can maybe as a sort of wide forward you can sort of still make movements into goals centre forward you can just do it differently midfield you can sit in there centre half full back now with exposure like nothing what about your experience can you use your experience to get into a better position I get it but get people around you get out and get back in get people around you Yeah, get out, get back in, yeah.

19:29But no, I do think, like, even there when I'm with Ireland, now you're talking about physically, see, when we play for Ireland or whatever, we probably don't have the ball as much, so you're kind of, you're like that, and you've got Ogbenny in front of you, so you're kind of talking and keeping him right, and then you're playing in the countertop. And I feel all right in them games when it's like, you know... Sitting in, maybe. Yeah, you're sitting in, you can talk to the people in front of you to this idea. Of course, like, you can get exposed at Premier League level or away from home or something, but in terms of the communication, like you said, I do think I can help a lot, like if the person in front of you is willing to listen and block angles or whatever.

20:06So would you think a bit of coaching, Shane? If a club came in and said, listen, you're going to play 15, 20 games, hopefully, are you thinking not ready for that yet? Maybe not ready just yet, but it is something that I do think I'd like to do. I do, I mean, in a bit of a mad way, I think the last maybe three or four years or whatever, and I've been like nearly like a mini manager not in terms of how we play or how we pick a team but in terms of managing people and you know trying to keep people on side when things are tough like so I do like that side of it Was that role not I was convinced because obviously Leighton Baines has got a role who else has got a role is there someone else Leighton Baines sort of commented a role I was yeah the club were very good so what was that role and why did you not take it no no the gaffer was just like basically you know showed me the utmost respect and it was like whatever whatever you want to do you can come in with us here you can go in the academy you can whatever whatever you want and i just didn't take it jimmy because i just um i've been there for so long and i absolutely love the club but i just probably wanted a little a little break and a little bit of time off and a summer off with my family and um you know my first seven eight years at everton were brilliant but the last seven it were really, really tough mentally.

21:23Stressful, yeah, really stressful. Jesus Christ. Unbelievably stressful. You know, Jamie, the size of the club in the city and how much the club means to the people on the street. Them relegation battles is enough to take a toll on anyone. I mean, obviously, I don't really know you. That was probably the first time I've really spoke to you. I'm back to Jamie. I know, I know. But I think we've got a couple of people, mutual friends but obviously I've been analysing everything in the last seven or eight years I'm quite critical of them off the pitch and on the pitch and it definitely got back to me two or three times that Seamus Comer was going into the dressing room fucking Jamie you were motivated don't worry Jamie but I I loved it I loved that you know that thing of like you said they were

22:12Gary Neville: the worst room club in football didn't you I think a few years ago I remember you said something like that I said it two days ago but yeah No, but there was Tottenham away, I think it was, and I did use you in a way as well, there's no doubt about it, but when you're in that bubble of... So would you get the players together as a group, as a captain? So too many times really, like you led by example on the pitch, but we were in a bad, bad place and it was too many times I had to do it, but going back to... Tottenham. yeah so Tottenham away we were terrible I think it was 5-0 yeah 4-5-0 we were absolutely terrible and I think you said the champion you're back 4 or whatever which absolutely well within your right so I would never see when people come for performances or your playing ability or how you fair game or whatever but then I think on the Monday night and I was delighted because on the Monday night I think you just you just used a word you called us a disgrace the Everett players are a disgrace so we just came off the back of that on Saturday and I was like, this is falling apart in front of my eyes.

23:18Like here, we could go down. And I was watching Monday Night Football, whatever. I think he called us a disgrace. And I was like, right, okay. Let me use that in whatever way I can. Like, so, it was called the lads. Not just in, we're having a chat about something else. I was like, by the way, terrible Saturday, which we were, shocking. I said, but Jimmy Carragher called us a disgrace. I was like, and then you're trying to use these things. so you're like looking around the group and you're going I think it was Richarlison like I just picked on him I was like he called us he was a disgrace he doesn't know your journey where you came from what you've had to fight for just you know you're just using it in any way to like try and get us together again and like I think Frank actually was on here speaking about that maybe and listen it's not the reason we turned it around but we won we won the next game but I swear to God like on And to be nice, I'd just be lying in bed, like, and I'd be thinking, what can I do tomorrow?

24:19What can I do the next day? How can I keep it together? Because from upstairs, it was, you know, points deductions, whatever. And by the way, I'm not sitting here like this is all me. We had managers that come in and absolutely helped get us over the line, Jordan Pickford and that. But I just felt like I had to keep going there with the mind. You must have had, for a player to have those type of meetings, we always think about, like, Roy, like your type of figure or a John Terry or we talk about like Steven Gerrard at Liverpool I don't think there's many players who can actually get a group of their own players to sort of right I'm almost taking a meeting and basically the lads are having it you know there's 20 lads sitting there because normally shut up, sit down you're as bad you know what I mean the respect you must have had in the Everton dressing room and the club to be allowed to almost take it upon yourself to you know pass that message on to the players and basically still be highly respected Could you do that and just call a meeting whenever you wanted?

25:14Well, I did, but not in an egotistical way, but in a way that, like, if Everton Football Club went down, Ian, my time at Everton would have been good for nothing. I wouldn't have wanted to show my face in the street again. So I couldn't have Everton go down on my watch, maybe selfishly. But I always felt like all the managers come in, done amazing and done all... But I always was thinking, I don't think this is bothering people as much as it's bothering me. It was keeping me awake, Jimmy, Jill, honestly. Every night it was keeping me awake. I was lying there thinking what to do, looking at the table.

25:51It was just keeping me awake. The reason I've done it, but I've always done it with every single manager, any meeting I had, rightly or wrongly, because there would be times managers would be making wrong decisions or whatever, but I never ever would go against what a manager's message was or even in the dressing room. I never once in a dressing room joined in with what the boys would maybe say about a session or a manager because as soon as you do that as a captain, even shame he's saying it. So I never let my guard down to join in with that but I also got to know the players as well. I think, like, we all grew up idolising Roy and you kind of knew as a young Irish lad without even following United all the time, but you knew what Roy stood for.

26:43It was like standards, timekeeping, and you're either on it or you're not. My first seven years at Everton, maybe, that's how I kind of, we all looked up to Roy and that's how you thought you should be as a captain or as a leader on time. You didn't do this, you didn't do that. And it worked for the first seven years. but honest to God times changed and it was like you got to get to to know the players and you got to get to like a relationship with them to when you want to when you just played there would have been all sorts of certain dressing rooms and then it would have been done by the time you go up for your lunch whereas now I had it a few times where maybe I crossed the line and it's like they don't speak to you for a couple of weeks what's crossing the line look like Seamus?

27:26maybe crossing the line is with the players or the managers? oh no with managers They think you've crossed the line, you don't. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, yeah. So if someone can't take, basically get the toilet paper.

27:37Gary Neville: Where they get up too upset, obviously, what you've said. What would you have said that would have upset you? Well, I think the norm back in the day was you said what you felt, plenty of things were said to me, what was felt, and it could be in front of 23 people and 10 staff, and you just had to suck it up and get on with it because that was what it was about. Whereas now, if you were to do that and just go for someone in front of everyone, they might see it as, well, you could have said it to me by myself. But I got to know the players and got to understand them a little bit more so that whenever that time did come that I had to do it, they knew it was...

28:14Genuine. And I'm not playing. I wasn't competing against them for a position. It was for the better of Everton Football Club at all times. Do you think that's why you have to sometimes meet halfway? because as I got older, I felt like things kind of shifted and the younger players, you did kind of have to have different conversations because the world changes, doesn't it? They'd maybe be on the phones a little bit more and stuff like that. And that's why, you know, when you speak about your role, it's so important. And sometimes if you put a title on it, like you're going to be the link between the player and the manager, it then doesn't feel as heartfelt.

28:48Yeah, yeah, of course. And even with the link to the player and the manager, another thing that I was very conscious of, I never got close with any manager, like in terms of, I was never in manager's offices, I was never, like you would have been two or three times here and there, but I was never like best mates with the manager, I was never out on the football pitch always chatting with the manager. Because I felt like if you were so close with the manager and then you're going back into the dressing room, I just don't think it carries the same weight. So I always kept that line as well. I think we're probably similar.

29:18A lot of the things you're saying, I think just reminds me of myself at Liverpool where I didn't sometimes a manager buys a player and you've got this relationship I never classed myself as someone I was Liverpool Liverpool was my thing it seems to me the way you're talking it wasn't David Moyes or Sean Dyche it was Everton and that's the way when people say do you play for the manager or has the manager lost his address I just say I just play for Liverpool whoever the manager is yeah whoever it is pretty similar yeah I was the same like and yeah it's funny funny story because I never I used to just crack on with training whoever the manager was like you said never but when I became captain at Everton for the first time you start to maybe go like do I need to start doing things a little bit different do I need to listen to the lads a bit more but I always if the manager said Ron you're doing this session I'd do it if he said we're staying out for two hours we'd do it but when Marco Silva came in maybe on a Friday I think maybe set pieces went on a bit long and maybe we're conceding set pieces and the word coming back to me from the players like for a couple of weeks was like you're going to have to tell him you know it's too long whatever I was like I don't want it it goes against everything that I believe I don't want it but at the same time this was when times were kind of changing and you're like do I need to keep the dressing room up here or not?

30:40So I just left it and I said I'm not going to say anything but then we actually had a meeting with Marco just a team meeting or whatever and just at the end of the meeting And he just said, like, any problems, anything to report? And then he just looked straight at me and he went, Coleman, any issues? And I thought, he's asked me, so I went, well, to be honest, I said, like, we've been, I wasn't going to say the lads have been talking, we've been talking and think maybe, can't remember exactly, was it a set piece or whatever, but things are going on a bit longer or whatever than they should have.

31:11He looked at me, he was like, really?

31:16And I was like, yeah, yeah. and he went, anyone else? And he opened up the whole room. No one. Not one. Not one person. I walked into the restroom, I was like, you skin up. Yes. Because, and from that, never again. Was he okay with you, though? He was fine, yeah, he was fine. He probably knew it wasn't my character. But yeah, I thought, oh my God.

31:41Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+.

31:49Hi, this is Monica Reinagle of Nutrition Diva. Today's show is sponsored by Nature Raised Farms. Grocery shopping can be a little overwhelming, especially if you're reading labels. And in my opinion, chicken shouldn't be complicated, which is why I appreciate Nature Raised Farms. It's chicken that's just chicken, and their lightly breaded chicken nuggets are free from gluten, dairy, and soy. Look for Nature Raised Farms on your next grocery trip and feel more confident about your choices.

32:48Already in there. Three angles no competitors using right now. Just need your approval. Approved. Thanks. Oh, agents, where would we be without you? Hmm. Somewhere with a lot more tabs open. Create your first Monday agent in minutes at monday.com.

33:11Gary Neville: Gary, do you know what I've been watching this week? I do know what you've been watching this week because you told me earlier on. Chad Powers season two. Talk to me about it. Chad Powers, it's about a former kind of progity quarterback. Real life or not? No, not real life, but basically like a Tom Brady style person called Russ Holiday. He has an incident that sees him dropped by his team. What does he do? I won't spoil it, it's very funny. But he then has to rebuild his career by going back to college, but in a disguise. So it's a bit like Mrs Doubtfire, but for... Sports people. of sports people and it's very very funny and season two is coming out now.

33:48Gary Neville: Well my NFL knowledge is not unbelievable however I do know that if you're a quarterback it's all on you isn't it? There's a lot of eyes on you. Yes. You know what I mean? It's like goalkeeper. I say quite often goalkeeper is an unforgiving position and if you make a mistake there is no one that doesn't notice it. Have you ever come across someone who was a different personality when they walked into a dressing room? I've seen a switch of personality from people who are in a dressing room to going on a pitch I think Paul Scholes Quiet, corner of a dressing room You wouldn't think he would say boo to a goose As in sort of like, you know, just sort of quite unassuming But then you see him on a football pitch Tenacity, ferocious Aggressive would actually, to be fair, snap at you at times If you didn't get the ball into him in the right areas Or pass it to his right side Really?

34:35Gary Neville: I've seen transformations of players from off the pitch to on the pitch in which case you'll enjoy seeing that transformation from home to the changing room in Chad Powers too oh he changes he has a different face Gary well after my last few games for United when I kept getting nearly sent off and red carded I think it would have been good if I could have basically gone in disguise for the next couple of years to rebuild my career did you see me at West Brom yeah wasn't good was it no I thought you were you in disguise and you'll see more of that in Chad Powers season 2 a Hulu original exclusively on Disney+.

35:09I'm going to watch that one. It's really good.

35:20Gary Neville: Seamus, you've been talking and I think there's a couple of things. One is that I think any club that does need a full-back will be thinking, I want him in my dressing room pretty quickly. And secondly, the things that you've sort of been through at Everton around sort of coaching players through a playing role, what are the concerns that you would have for modern players? what would be the advice you've been so close to a dressing room in a leadership role the young players that are coming through now what are the themes patterns that you see that you would say right okay what would my advice be I know the go to one a lot is social media and I do think I do think that is it is a tough it is tough for young players now like and people can say they see it or they don't see it you see it you're on your phone you see it all the time so I think coming to terms with that being the norm and you know it changes with the wind like you know one week you're the best in the world next you're not and actually did I now that I've said that like sounds like I'm I'm digging myself up here telling all these stories but I'm not it's just when you when you said it when I said about social media like we were going through again in the last year or two like a tough time but some of our young lads were going through a tough time because Jim you know the Everton fans they're demanding like you know it might not be from the outside or the you know the Sky Sports side of it but like when you sign for Everton there's a demand and you need to like have tough skin or they'll just see you off and they don't ask for much they just want you to work hard respect the club and just get on with it a little bit whereas like we sign people that like maybe they don't understand the size of the football club before they come they don't understand the history the titles before it but there's still fans in the stadium that remember them times.

37:05So they come into the club and maybe they don't understand how demanding it is and what the fans can be pushing. And I think our fans are amazing, but they pushed me too, like you wouldn't believe. But there was a few young lads I could see. We weren't winning. Young first team lads that were struggling. Because I'd be on my phone myself, I'd see things. So I know they're seeing the same things about themselves. And it's only like comments or fan pages or whatever, but you'd see it. And I'm thinking, right, well, this young lad is seeing it as well. So I ended up texting our analyst at Everton, and I said, do me a favour.

37:45I said, will you go on there on Twitter or something, and will you just go find some of the worst things that have been said about me online? I said, just put it together on a big screen or whatever. So we've done it, and it was it. you went to Kara Swift

38:07some of them were awful but you know my point to the lads was I got it up on the screen and I was like you just hear fans singing 60 grand Seamus Coleman's loved by all the Everton fans and he can do no wrong but I was trying to explain to them that we all get it we've all got it and the same people that'll say this it's just a reaction to a bad performance or a bad result, you keep your head switched on, get back at it and it'll be something else in a week's time. And I was just trying to like show them that everyone gets it. It's not just you sitting at home going through your phone. It's part and parcel of it now and just kind of get on with it.

38:44And some of them were funny, some of them were awful. But I probably couldn't have done it at 24, read them things about me, but I could now. And a couple of them came up to me after and were like, yeah, thanks for that type thing. so I do think social media and online is tough for players I think again probably similar people think about 60 grand Seamus Comer team of Carragas that was definitely not the case with Liverpool fans with me for most of my career probably for about a 3 or 4 year period but there wasn't social media so I was a player who wasn't who was like I wouldn't say heavily criticised but there was always a case of can we do better than him or can't we replace him and so I used to get it in the game in the stands a little bit or I used to have the Liverpool Echo the letters page I was Jamie Carpenter but I could only imagine what it would have been like with social media because I wasn't like I wasn't Stevie Gerrard I wasn't Michael Owen you know the local players come through and they were like superstars of the team really so listen I think I'm strong enough but it wouldn't have been easy it's tough it's tough it must have brought extra pressure though isn't it it must have been extra pressure if you're a local lad if you're seen like Seamus may be a local lad you're talking about the culture Seamus but has that changed in everything you think is that change in the last 6-12 months are you feeling a different vibe at the club David Moyes I probably felt safe is a word when the gaffer came back I felt like more stability at the club yeah and I mean listen there's a lot of work to be done obviously we've seen how the window worked and I'm sure the manager would like it to be a bit better but he just he cares about Everton Football Club and he works really really hard like he works extremely hard and And yeah, I think he's brought the stability.

40:27Like he gets it. You're not thinking for one minute there'd be any sort of relegation problem at Everton when David Moyes is there, obviously. And there won't be because he's, as you said, he's experienced. He's experienced and he gets it. And I like to think, you know, them days are behind this. But you can never get too comfy. You know, we had one relegation battle and thought, you know, yeah, that's it. Never again. Next year you were straight back in it. Like, so you can't. You're on about clubs nearly going down. Obviously Spurs were talking about last year, but when Everton were getting close it was hard to imagine Everton being in the Championship wasn't it

40:58Gary Neville: remember the fans near the end of the stadium the fans were like sort of like lining the streets weren't the fire did you see them bring the dog through

41:09have you seen that picture yeah I haven't seen it with a dog no no but they were incredible because we were poor we were really poor and rightly so and there was times where you can see the third goal and you just see the seats and they get out until they realised we're in trouble and when they realised that they just they come together they said yeah honestly it was it was incredible and I think without without them without their like support in that stadium we would was there a particular game where you felt they're behind us now well I do remember one game in particular Chelsea at home I think Richarlison scored and the place was electric like and yeah I think they they absolutely played a massive part you know we went to Leicester away and they were at the training ground, like a big group of them just seeing us off and that.

41:57So, you know, they made us understand. And the lads that maybe didn't realise how big Everton were when you're driving in for a league game and you see all them people outside the stadium. But I'm not sitting here celebrating the fact that we're staying up. You know, it's not what Everton Football Club should ever be about. But when you are there and you're so desperate, it was such a relief. But what do you think is realistic for Everton to sort of, you know, you're an ex-player now, you're looking at the club, we love the club to sort of when I say get back but I mean I've said it and you've probably used it as fuel in the dressing room but as a poorly run club and it's difficult for you to say I'm not going to ask you that but when the Premier League started going into that Everton were one of the team of the 80s the part of the big we talk about the big six now when I was a kid Everton was the big five and it was Arsenal Tottenham Man United Liverpool and that was the big five and they were the big teams and the chairman, Sir Philip Carter of Everton, they formed the Premier League.

42:58So it was about like, we're one of the big boys and Everton have probably been probably the biggest team or the team that have probably missed out more than when the Premier League started. Everyone looks at the Premier League and thinks, oh, we're catapulted us forward, money, stadiums. But Everton have been the real sort of fall guys around the Premier League. How can you see Everton? Could the new stadium have given that boost revenue? How can someone like a, and no disrespect, they've had an unbelievable journey, someone like a Crystal Palace, what they've done over the last sort of two or three years in terms of winning trophies, European trips.

43:32Now, Crystal Palace compared to Everton as a football club, it's just chalk and cheese. And you look at sort of Brighton, you look at Brentford, the way those clubs are running. I mean, can Everton get, they have to get back to that way. It's difficult to go and win the title. I get that, where it was in the 80s, but getting back to be in that sort of really well-run club, astute in the transfer market, getting, you know, bang for your buck, basically. Yeah, and listen, I suppose every fan base deserves it as well, but I do think the Everton fan base over the last few years have been dragged through it a lot and they're just crying out for that.

44:08What's the answer to that? I don't know. I never really got, well, I didn't. I never spoke to people upstairs or anything like that, but you would have to say recruitment over the years has not been spot on and I do think there is a certain I don't know certain type of in my time obviously Everton were successful before my time but in my time there's a certain type of personality that you need to play for Everton from what I remember from David Moyes signing me first to now and I feel like maybe like it touched on maybe we've not always got that right but in terms of getting back that's got to be the ambition I mean the club have spent money as well it's just have they you know Mishiri spent a lot of money but in terms of getting back to where they should be I don't know but I would love to see it because the fans A cup team Seamus would it be happy would it have been a cup team Yeah Yeah Did everything get close in the last 10 years did they get to a couple of semi-finals I think under David Moyes you know you get to the cup fan they were always there for Champions League but they were always a team and I don't think I think it's very difficult for Everton to sort of get to challenging for a league and things like that.

45:18But in terms of getting into Europe, I think Everton's aim has to be becoming a European team or there or thereabouts. And the opportunity now for English teams to win the Conference League and the Europa League. The English team should win that competition every year. If Everton could get into that, that's your chance then to put that 30-year thing to bed. And you look at sort of Crystal Palace, you look at Villa, three or four years ago, within a bit more, probably five or six years, they're in the Championship, fighting relegation. in and you're like, you know, so it can happen, similar size clubs can do that.

45:52Gary Neville: Seamus, did you see that, I mean, I know you would never speak to the ownership, I completely get that, and your relationship with the manager wouldn't have even been that close, but did you feel the disorganisation in the club and the anger of the fans, the toxicity of the owners and executives not being able to turn up at games, did that impact you as players? I mean, you are aware of all the noise about it. Just the negativity. The negativity of it, yeah, of course. It carries to then, say you concede after 15 minutes, that built-up negativity is there. But our fans, they're switched on as well, and they care about their football club, and they want to push the buttons at the right time of the people involved in the football club if they don't feel like things are going the right way.

46:40But you definitely felt it, and then obviously we had points deductions and things like that so you do feel the upheaval from above and that's all down to Would you go and have a word

46:49Gary Neville: with the CEO or the say look come on sort this out because you're someone who's a leader you would obviously sort the dressing room out but would you ever think hang on a minute they've got to do better for us because they're putting us under pressure would you ever have a word on stuff like that? There would have been times where I would have because maybe we were told that deductions aren't going to be what ended up getting and you know we're getting fed maybe some of that and then you end up getting it but though So I honestly, Gary, I left upstairs alone and I left managers alone because I just needed to influence the dressing room as best as I could.

47:21And that's probably a weakness in many times because you'd see other people going to CEOs or going to managers or whatever. In Everton or in different clubs? In different clubs, you can hear of people, you know. But for me, it just wasn't my game. I just didn't. But were they coming speaking to the players about the points? There would be, yeah. Yeah, you'd be pulled in. They'd pull you in to have a chat before they speak to the group or whatever and be giving you information maybe five, ten minutes before everyone else gets it or telling you what's possibly going to be ahead and that. But that was a big shock.

47:55That was tough.

47:56Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+.

48:05Hi, this is Monica Reinagle of Nutrition Diva. Today's show is sponsored by Nature Raised Farms. Grocery shopping can be a little overwhelming, especially if you're reading labels. And in my opinion, chicken shouldn't be complicated, which is why I appreciate Nature Raised Farms. It's chicken that's just chicken. And their lightly breaded chicken nuggets are free from gluten, dairy and soy. Look for Nature Raised Farms on your next grocery trip and feel more confident about your choices. Hi Pod fans, Max Rushton here from the chart-topping Guardian Football Weekly Podcast. Don't like to crow. If you enjoyed the World Cup with us, you'll be glad to know we're back for the new Premier League season.

48:44Expect three episodes a week, questionable predictions and the biggest stories in soccer from the Premier League to the Champions League and beyond. Watch now on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

48:56Gary Neville: Well, nobody managed to get all six right last weekend again, which means the Super Six£1 million jackpot is still up for grabs. That's right, the jackpot is still sitting at£1 million and it stays there until someone wins it. It's completely free to play, just predict the scores of six football matches, get them all right and that£1 million could be yours. 18 plus TNCs apply.

49:24Gary Neville: I would just dig a little bit into being a full-back in the Premier League and you've done it obviously for a long time. What changed the most, I mean the demands that we see on full-backs now of having to go into midfield or having to be, obviously you're always attacking full-back, but the demands on them, how has it changed over that 10, 15 years of you playing? I mean, I think that's changed a lot in terms of, it's not a full-back just on the overlap as much anymore, it's tucking in and all the rest. But actually, I was saying this not so long ago, as an out-and-out defender, I don't know if it's as hard because, as a fullback it is in terms of say we used to play City and David Silva would be there and Sterling would be there but across the board it wasn't always the case but when I was starting first you had like a winger and it was you or him on the day he was either going to come out on top or you were and you can isolate it whereas now I find there's not many wingers that just go at fullbacks anymore it's more like I'll face you up I'll put my foot on it and then I'll pass it inside and then as a fullback I can't thank God then as a fullback you just kind of shift with the ball so in terms of getting you can still get isolated of course like when people are in pockets of space in front of you and fullbacks are high but I haven't found it as even with Ireland that it's challenging in a one-on-one kind of fullback role but on the ball is a big difference a big difference yeah was there a particular winger that caused you a lot of problems or you'd come up against him and think I'm going to be him for a tough game do you know what was always a tough game was Crystal Palace away because you had Bilasi on one side and Zaha on the other and they were quite direct and it was just yeah you just knew you were going to have a tough and then like obviously Chelsea the hazards and that but again he kind of went he'd receive inside and kind of dribble inside kind of not isolate you as such so I think going away to Sellers Park when Zaha and Bilasi were there was really tough in the modern game Seamus what's changed what demands on players now compared to 10 years ago on things like set pieces nutrition sports science how has that developed yeah it's developed a lot I mean there is a serious demand now as everyone knows on set plays and preparing for set plays we've done them a lot with Martin as well didn't we but there's more like it's more like this zone that zone percentages of where goals are scored so there's a lot of time spent on set plays How long now?

51:57Gary Neville: John McGill was saying last week with United, it could be, did he say it was an hour or something before? Yeah, you could be, with David Moyes, you could be out on a Friday for, yeah, you know, you could be a couple hours sometimes, you know, from start to finish, like on a Friday. Are the modern players okay with that? Because two hours is a lot, isn't it? That's a long time. We'd get fed up with it, but are the modern players comfortable with that or do they get fed up as well? I mean, like, footballers get fed up, don't they? They want to go in, they want to, but, But when you see David Moyes as passionate about it as he is on the set plays and that...

52:31That drags you along. Well, it dragged me along. You know, he's covering every basis before you play on the Saturday. He's not leaving any stone unturned. So for me, anyway, I enjoyed seeing how much he cared. I think it's difficult for players to complain when you've seen the success. Arsenal are the best team. You know, in some ways, they're working on it. Do you have a set-piece coach? We do now. I think he's just, he came in towards the end of my time last year and he's just started this year. And he would take that session, would he, with David Moyes? He just seen, he was only in maybe the last three or four weeks of last season, so I think he was just overseeing things for that time and then he'll come in now, but I mean, the gaffer likes to control a lot.

53:09I bet, yeah. People like David Moyes, it's hard to let that go, isn't it? It is, yeah. So he'll still be overseeing it, I'm sure. Did you used to have the goalkeeper coach doing a bit of it or not? Like, you know, back in the day? What set pieces? Yeah. We didn't do them on the pitch.

53:24Gary Neville: Do you remember they got put up in the showers? They got put up in the showers on the wall. So you didn't practice them? No. In the shower? They got put up in the shower wall. On the shower wall. So you basically, as a defender, you just walk into the back, you find out where you were and basically you'd look at it and then you'd basically say, No practice beforehand, no. No, but it's mad. And he used to threaten us. I remember he used to threaten us if we can see the goal from set pieces that I'll have you doing set pieces like everyone else in the shower. if you carry on conceding them. But it's mad.

53:54Gary Neville: I mean, obviously, it's moved so much further forward now that you would do them now. Yeah. Yeah, it was mad, really, that. It's amazing that we're talking about Everton and a lot of negativity, Seamus. But obviously, you've got to touch base on the Irish stuff. Some great days with Ireland, didn't you, Hal? Oh, yeah. The best, yeah? Yeah. I mean, unbelievable. I mean, that Euros went. It was fabulous, wasn't it? No, it was... Strangely enough, I was talking to my son yesterday. I said you were coming on. He was saying, my son Aidan was at the Euros against, I think, the Italy game. and he said it was probably one of the best nights of his life.

54:23Amazing. Ah, yeah. It was mine. It was incredible. I mean, we had to beat Italy to get out of the group stages and, I mean, they might have changed one or two players. They still had a strong three or four. I think they made nine changes, I think. They'd already got through, hadn't they? You don't have to, we'll let it down. That's what Ollie texted me after they came. Well done and beaten Italy reserves. But that night, I mean, we had to get something and Wes missed a chance, didn't he? Just before Robbie scored. But that was incredible. And do you know what? We played France then, a few days later, we went 1-0 up.

54:53Scored a penalty, Robbie Brady, 1-0 up. We were 1-0 up at half-time. I'm not sure if it was at one time, Shemis. And then they scored two in the second half. Yeah, and we did have a couple of days extra recovery. Yeah, they did a few days. Which was tough on us. Yeah, but that was... I mean, you got to the World Cups and... You know, I only had the Euros, but it was incredible. Like, you know... I mean, England are probably used to getting there all the time and I know they've got a great fan base, but see when Ireland got to that one in 2016, what it does to the country. You've done great with Ireland, you know.

55:26And still are last year, it was just tough going towards the end. Yeah, I mean we've done really well to get back in it. Because we were out of it, we got beat by Armenia away. Regrouped and done more. Regrouped, got back in it and just missed out to Czech Republic again. Give away a penalty, a free kick in the corner. It was disappointing.

55:50Gary Neville: But no, playing for Ireland is the biggest honour. We've asked this question before about why is it harder now for young Irish players, Scottish players, to play in the top clubs? Obviously you've done it, but why is it so many talented young Irish boys? Yeah, I don't know, it's a good question. I know now as well they obviously can't come over until later now as well. So they used to come over when they were 15, 16. But I just think the Premier League now, like all the top teams and all the money they've got to spend and they can go scout you know all the countries it's more worldwide now isn't it it's more worldwide now I think like because obviously we grew up yourself John was at United there was Irish Damien Duff was at Chelsea you know there was Irish players at Shea Given Man City there's Irish players at big teams but I do think it is it is getting harder yeah Talks about Jordan Pickford obviously you worked with him for a long He's been a massive part of a very good defence.

56:48Gary Neville: Everton's strength in the last few years has been their defence. I think a number of us have said, basically, watching when we first came in, we just thought, not sure about him. But then when you watch his performances for England, what is he like as a goalkeeper? What is he like as a character in the dressing room?

57:04Well, I do think Everton would be in the Championship without him. I think he was that important to us. When he came in first, he was young, he was kind of immature. he was but like he's so professional he plays every week he's never injured he's switched on and focused as well and the pressure playing for England like growing up watching England I think there was always big pressure in England number ones but you can't I can't really count too many mistakes that he's made for England and that's true and I do feel like they're always maybe trying to get him out but he just keeps he keeps showing how good he is and his mentality is so strong he doesn't get he's just a normal lad who just kind of loves being in goal and doesn't get kind of bogged down with anything else.

57:49Gary Neville: Why do you think that it hasn't been, I mean, with respect to Everton, why do you think it's not been that he, he doesn't seem to ever get linked with moving somewhere else, does he? Or has that happened behind the scenes that we've not seen? I'm not sure if it's happened behind the scenes, but like he does love it at the football club. Like, I think he loves being loved and the fans absolutely love him. So I don't know if it's something that's ever came about, but I do know that he absolutely loves it at Everton. And they love him too. They absolutely idolise him. he's been unbelievable for us.

58:15It's a proper muckham.

58:16Gary Neville: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to ask you about a couple of players that obviously got involved in the transfer deadline day. So NDI leaves. You're just going to, oh, I'll talk about him first before I go to the next one. Is that a problem? He's a fantastic player. I mean, time will tell. I mean, Jack done really well when he came in last year. But the reason I've done that, because he, like, I even watched him there when I was at home against Bournemouth. And he just gets you up the pitch. he gets you out there could be three people around him and he just somehow manipulates the ball and gets out of there and I think when he starts adding goals and assists at the end of it to his game but the way he works for the team the way he's just a I don't know he had a spell in the lower leagues and you can nearly tell that he's hungry he's hungry he can take a bit of criticism and he just keeps going I watched him last season he's played Man City last season away was it?

59:08yeah away it wasn't too long into this but it was quite early on and I was watching the game thinking he looks like a City player playing for heaven that's the best way to describe it he wasn't out of place with the City I think Harland scored at about 15 second half I remember a goal Harland scored but he was brilliant in that game I'm just surprised for someone so good if he was to go But you must be glad as well Seamus see a lot of everything you must be good to see a player get a move as well and try and go on and win trophies Yeah but I would like probably would have liked to be for a bit more money like you know when you see when you see the the 60 60 you don't normally get a 60 that's cheap I think nearly nowadays it might be I mean he he's well Nicholas Jackson he's been really good for us right

59:55Gary Neville: Nicholas Jackson and De Lappe are 50 weren't they like 50 yards I mean he's talented at what level would you say he can get to you've played you've played against Premier League wingers the best and then you've played obviously with this lad where do you think he can get to in terms of sort of standard I don't know I'm not sure exactly how to answer where he can get to but if he can add you know the goals and the assists everything else is so easy for him he's technically brilliant and the thing is it's the consistency if he can get consistency then like you said Jamie watching him play against City and you say he looked like City if he gets he'll yeah but that's the handless bit the goals and the assists but obviously he'd be surrounded by better players but he's not a sulk or anything like that either like you know he's just a good lad it's good to hear it's true though to be fair you know something we sit here sometimes we're a little bit we are removed from the dressing room and sometimes you think of a perception of football players but when you meet them they're usually good lads aren't they it's good to hear from the fact that he's not a sulker because young wingers everyone's a great lad everyone's a great coach young wingers can be erratic they can be sulkers because they don't get their own way they get left out but it's good to hear that he's not a sulker he's got a really good personality yeah and I do think maybe just his kind of journey to get there has helped with that he just he just cracks on and what about Jack obviously the club have got him back yeah he's he's he came in you might have seen Jimmy how much the fans have they absolutely love him and when he came in like he was like a level above like he was really really good just can't get the ball off him like even in training you know and when he's I think when he feels loved and when he's got a fan base behind him I think he was really good for us up until he got injured and I'm hoping that that'll be the case again but again another lovely lad I want to ask you a couple of I want to ask you a question about playing against Klopp's Liverpool and playing against Pep City what would have been more tough for you as a full back?

1:02:13I'm not saying it by Liverpool or against Liverpool I didn't like playing against City's team I felt like with Liverpool I had some good games against this lad and some bad games but I knew I had Mane and Robertson and that's as daunting as that is but with City between you, your centre half and your right winger you didn't know who should go where who should go tight if he goes tight and you don't tuck in they've played through you so I felt with Liverpool they were powerful they were fit but I felt like you knew who you were dealing with you'd be Mane yeah I'd be Mane but what you're saying is you know who you're up against it's not easy it's not easy far from easy but with City you just you just didn't know it's amazing the trouble that full backs always say on here of yourselves no no no the glint in his eye No, no, but when the player drops into that position, it causes full-backs so much.

1:03:09I get it, answer to have, and midfield.

1:03:10Gary Neville: I was watching the Villa full-backs overnight, Roy, and it was like, Erdegaard's in that little pocket, Ben White's going round, and it's like, look, Ben White was in the pocket. But it's amazing, it doesn't seem to be a fix for it, does it? No, it's like, do I go in? Do I go out there? Do I stay in? And in the end, do you know something? One of the best pieces of advice I ever got from the boss on basically defending was, if you're not sure, stay where you are. Yeah, well, I never like going in. because you've got to trust a winger who's naturally attacking to like cover the fullback and I just think it can make you look awful if you don't have that trust in a winger then sometimes they will pick it up in front of you but you're like I don't fully trust he's going to do that who's picking it up because we used to most arguments I certainly heard at United with the lads the fullbacks was Zola these lads dropping in the hole but of course there's certain players you might get you go I'm not too bad with him but with Zola do the ones you have to get.

1:04:05Roy, the problem for us was,

1:04:08Gary Neville: if we went, so Zola's in there and I'm here, if I go in on Zola, right, and I don't get it, I know that that full-back's gone in there and he's gone back. Sorry, does that depend if he's facing you or if he's got his back to you? Just the general principle is, if I go in there, I've got to make sure then that he can't turn it and put it in there. Of course. Or that basically my winger has gone back with it. But if I don't go in, he gets it turned and then I'm dead anyway. But what's the worst danger? would you if that happened going in's the worst one you don't want him to get it in turn Zola he does turn but he still gets into the wide bit at least you're in shape right yeah we'll deal with that you've still got to cross it we did it on Monday Night Football and this was the problem Andy Robertson had against Newcastle Alanga was going inside and the full back was going there and he was just stuck and what they ended up doing was completely doing something that they went so they ended up just in sheer panic bringing a midfield player to Mark Alanga but not not screen him mark him from behind so you're thinking that can't be right that a centre midfield player is marking a right winger when he goes inside but it just causes that much panic what we're talking about Robertson a bit older big pitch doesn't want to get exposed up against the langer and you're like I always felt if it was a Zola or a Burkham a brilliant player like that you can't have them facing you up and coming at you I'd rather them knock it wide and go we'd deal with that them coming on to you the problem with a fullback is and we all know we've played it is what you've just said the trust of a winger you know a winger will switch off so you're terrified of going in there because you think there's going to be one time where he's going back on him and then he's just going to be behind you The real perfect situation I always found was actually to be fair where you're not worried about it because if the space is between me and you Roy or me you and say Fletch was there as an example if we brought an extra man in midfield sometimes so my view was the problem was if the gap was too big you felt you'd feel uneasy and I'd feel uneasy but actually if you actually just squeeze and I think the modern teams now when they're defending I watch them they are more compact than we used to be.

1:06:03Gary Neville: As a team, you mean? Yeah, so like the other night, I didn't see, Erdegaard found it very difficult because Aston Villa was so narrow and compact. I think we were a little bit probably spread out as a 4-4-2 rather than the 4-4-2 now seems to be so tight. They're a bit more drilled. So I think maybe we just, we were a bit more attacking, weren't we? That's the answer really, I suppose. We'd be like that with Benitez, really like that was our thing. Stop the space there. When you're actually going in, you're not going 10 yards, it's only five and you can jump in and out, you know, because you're that close.

1:06:31Gary, if they do drop in, can you not use your midfielder to screen the ball going into them? But the good teams will find... You're on about leaving little spaces, Jill.

1:06:40Gary Neville: The good teams will find people like that. Jill, the problem I think we had was, let's say our four in midfield were there, which they always were, they always got back in. I think maybe we weren't drilled enough as a back four to push up. We would sort of just give ourselves a yard. We would, even when I first came in under Bruce, it was Bruce who was there or Demanya was there or... Lauren Blanc was there. The only time I ever felt we really pushed up high was when we had Ronnie Johnson and Yapstam for a period where they just both could just defend one-on-one and they could just chase everything back.

1:07:07Gary Neville: Not Rio and Vidic? Rio and Vidic, because Vidic was sometimes... We weren't a team that pushed up under Rio and Vidic when I played in that first year and a half. It was a team that still played a little bit deeper. I never thought United were a team that pushed the back four up. So, I mean, I don't think Everton do either under David Moyes. He would always be a little bit more... Just that five yards deeper. We were always a bit five yards deeper. The beauty, because we played four midfields, I'm trying not to bore you, but if you had four midfielders like we did, one ball would be four of you, whereas now you'd always have a sit midfielders.

1:07:38Even if you have two in front of you, it's still harder to get to somebody. Whereas it was easier because we played 4-4 too. James, could I ask you about, because you mentioned Liverpool and City, Merseyside derbies, I'm sure they mean a lot to you, they mean a lot to me, being in the City. What's that? Because I know the build-up for me when I was a player, it felt like the biggest game in the world. I mean, what's the mentality inside Everton? How would you feel? You know, you're on the streets, you live in Liverpool, you're dropping your kids off at school. How does it feel for you? Yeah, no, you feel the build-up, definitely.

1:08:09It's a, as everyone knows, it's a huge game, massive game. We, unfortunately, were in the wrong end of it too many times. I think I've won, maybe two, maybe. And one was actually back when Arteta, did you play Arteta? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was my first one, I think. And then the next one was behind closed doors. Oh, behind closed doors. Did you not play in the FA Cup game? Who was the kid who scored? He went to Bournemouth. Little midfield player. Remember a night game? We drew a couple of times at Anfield. We played the replay. Oh, Dan Gosling. That was February 2009, I think. And I came in January.

1:08:51I was at that game. I was at that game at Goodison. because I was looking at Dan Goss and he was like a hero wasn't he and I was like wow I just came over and I seen the fame and attention he got from that goal Why was it behind closed doors? The Covid one that we played Richarlison And she lost Liverpool lost seven games

1:09:13Gary Neville: at Amster Six in and all at all Just about Liverpool's full-backs it was about full-backs a lot before about United's full-backs what do you think about Kirkhaz and Frimpong when you watch them now for Liverpool in terms of the style of their full-backs versus, say, Arsenal, who've got more defensive full-backs? Yeah, I mean, they are natural attackers, aren't they? They want to bomb forward. I think, you know, I have not watched enough Liverpool, to be honest, this season to see how they've played or not played. But I do think, like, if... I think, was it Fulham that Fulham played and they put their two...

1:09:47I do think if both are going at the one time nowadays, and it gets turned over, it's very hard. You're in trouble, it's a good team. And they both probably like to go and they both are athletic enough to go. But as a full-back, Jim, lads, if you're a full-back and you're both high and you're a full-back, you look and go, this is not... You must as a full-back go, I don't feel comfortable. I understand if he's high, you go, I'm tucked in. Or the other way around. But the two of you, you look across each other and go, this is not... You're not smelling danger. We had a good season under Martinez.

1:10:19I think his first season, we finished fifth. it was me and Leighton Baines fullback but we had James McCarthy and Gareth Barry just sitting there all the time so there was times that Baines he was passing me and I was scoring but we always felt alright because the two of them just that's why I was saying about Henderson for Trent he would do that a lot for Trent and they just covered you and you felt like you could go and you were advised to go but football's changing all the time and tactical battles are getting more and more if you're one yard out of place now it's a goal you get punished yeah

1:10:51Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+. Seamus, just listening to you, obviously, through this last, like, nearly hour, why would you have turned down that coaching role at Everton? Because it feels to me like you're absolutely meant for coaching. Or is there another thing? I mean, obviously, I know you want to play, but is there a player-coach role? Or what is it that would stop you doing that? Because you've got punditry or you've got coaching. Which route are you going to choose? It's only two options in the world. It's only two options, yeah. No, I wouldn't say like, it's not like I've turned down going back to heaven or anything like that.

1:11:26That was by no me, that wasn't the case as such. I just, I've done it for so long and there was a couple of tough years mentally as well with everything that was going on. We stabilised, we got to the new stadium, the gaffer came back and I just thought, I just feel like I need a break from it and I wanted to go home, I wanted to spend time with my family, my mum, my dad, my brothers, my in-laws. You don't get and the kids got to have seven weeks back in Ireland and it was nice and I wouldn't swap it but it's not to say that it's not something that I will go back to in time. I think what I said was the Ireland thing is huge for me.

1:12:03I love playing for Ireland. We love playing for Ireland. It's hard to explain it but that's huge for me and it just dropped a little bit of doubt in my head about the possibility of wanting to play on and because it felt so good in the games but in terms of coaching, yeah, I would like to air my stripes properly as well. I don't necessarily just want to be played here for... Have you got any badges yet? I've done my BMA, yeah.

1:12:27Gary Neville: Oh, wow, so you're quite far advanced. Yeah, and I didn't do my pro, the last pro licence, because, again, we were quite in the thick of it with things at club. Some people can play and do media, play and go down to the academy and coach. I couldn't. It was my life, do you know what I mean? It was my wife, my kids, my parents, my brothers. it was all our life for them two or three years I wasn't fit to like separate it at all I think people I think you underestimate what Seamus was taking on board I met you a couple of times over the last few years Seamus for a couple of teas and stuff and the effect of the relegation fights was tough on you so maybe you just needed to step back and have that break you deserve it Everton fans must be in dreamland listening to this to think I mean they'll have known it watching you play but listening to you talk with the care and the passion that you have for the club they'll probably be feeling that they want 11 a team Seamus Coleman's every single week, because that's what every football fan wants, isn't it?

1:13:22Gary Neville: I'm just telling you, if you were putting a bet on now, where will you be in three months' time? I'll be playing, you'll be playing. Because I'm thinking, at what point, Roy said it earlier, what point is it too long before you can't go back in? It's three months, is it? No, it's coming close to that. Have any offers come in in the last 24, 40 hours? Any clubs at all come in? I've had conversations but at the same time nothing nothing set in stone I've been keeping fit like you said the decision will have to come at some point but I'm okay with with either decision you know I'm okay Would you go to League 1 and League 2?

1:14:01Probably no No

1:14:06You've got a contract No probably not but

1:14:12Gary Neville: Would it be a championship then? I would play in the championship. You would play in the championship. I think, look, you're on here and people will watch this and they'll look at, I think they'll be mad championship clubs if they're short of experience. It's not just a right back. They're not getting a right back. They're getting a guardian of principles and values in the dressing room, which is invaluable in 2026. But we'll see. In terms of three months down the line, I don't really know if some of the conversations me and my wife have had. I've been two in front. Right, I'm going to go. I'm going to sign here.

1:14:43let's go home let's move home let's stay here just been all sorts of comments moving back to Ireland you mean yeah no I mean we had six weeks back at home we loved it we loved seeing everyone and it was great but again the kids are back here in school and we love it over here as well but you know when you're in this phase you're talking about the possibilities of everything are your wife from Liverpool? no she's from Kelly Beggs as well she's from back home yeah so I think if you're thinking about the Euros in two years then you should give yourself a go do you know what I mean if it's there in your head because okay if it doesn't happen at least you've had a go but you don't want to probably finish thinking oh what it was yeah and I mean I wouldn't commit I wouldn't mentally be committing for the two years because you know it would just you would have it in the back of your mind for sure and but I mean I don't think I'll be playing for Ireland two years regular starter or whatever but I have been as of now but you know around the group around the squad I still think I could help influence them lads as well but again it has to feel right for me and my family and the time's coming close to her I'm going to have to decide either way

1:15:45Gary Neville: what impact would your wife have on that decision what is she saying to you at home right now in terms of sort of you know what she'd like you to do because obviously she's been living this with you for like the last 10-15 years yeah she's definitely lived it with me and but she's she's unbelievable honestly she's she's been there through it all the good times the bad times the injuries everything that's came with it you know she's had to deal with it and two of us are over here on her own with three kids, you know, all families back home, don't have that kind of support network because that's why we enjoyed going home so much because it was great but she just wants me to be happy and just wants me to do what's right for me.

1:16:22She'd get on a plane in the morning and go wherever if we needed to. She's fully supporting me and that's important as well, you know.

1:16:28Gary Neville: And are you similar on the pitch? You are at home. Do you have a similar character? No, completely different. Completely different. I'm quite chilled at home. I've got any meetings in the house now. No, no. I'm not the boss of my house. I'm behind my wife and my two daughters as the boss of my house.

1:16:49But, yeah, on the pitch, you know, God, I'm sure if you go around the league and you ask people what you like, do people have a perception of me before they come? But everyone's different on the pitch, aren't they? You've got to have that edge or you've got to find something to get you through, you know.

1:17:06Gary Neville: And final question. it's been brilliant obviously speaking to you and listening to your sort of recent experiences and how you are but punditry you're obviously only a b license and your a license and i can see the type of person that would do that just to make sure you do things properly but would you consider television and broadcasting i don't want to say no because you never say never but i just don't know if it's for me i don't think it's like you see i think you're close to them jamie like conor cody's on there and he's very natural and very good i'm so exposed this morning with the eye but like I just don't know if that'll be me maybe in time it will but you know I'll see it's not really something I can imagine myself being very comfortable with you'll have plenty of options in Shamus won't you no you will whatever you're saying to do yeah don't worry don't be stressed you'll have good options yeah and don't be in a rush to retire as well don't be in a rush to sleep you know what I'm going to leave you I'd say though don't carry on too long

1:17:57I'll tell you what it was guys I remember it was Ray Wilkins Ray Wilkins remember how old was Ray when he was still playing and he said you play until you can't play especially if you don't feel that just play yeah but when you know when you know you're not that is the other thing like I know I know you've mentioned Jimmy my legs at times or whatever but one thing I am is I'm honest with myself I couldn't I'm not going to say I'm going to play 38 games a season but in training you know you're playing against and die the greeners if like every day in training people are dropping a shoulder and like you're struggling to get back in or I went with Ireland and someone kicks it past you and you're just like making a show of yourself I would be like I'm out but I've done alright with Ireland but there's going to there was times when I was 24 as well where people would leave you for dead or you'd get caught in the inside but of course you know I can't I'm not imagining playing 38 games somewhere you know

1:18:51Gary Neville: but Shemis it feels to me like you're going to carry on playing because I think Wright has got a point when I finally retired I knew I should have retired probably a few months before but when I finally did it hit me like a ton of bricks you know it and if you're still feeling that you're actually part of your wants it, you probably have to go and do it. I think maybe after a few months, it hits you like a ton of bricks, and you think, it's not for me. You can always say, look, it's not for me. No-one's going to think you're unprofessional, no-one's going to think that you've chucked the towel in.

1:19:14Gary Neville: If you're not right, it's not right. Yeah. You know what retired me? At the end of a session, when you're meant to have the fun, like, seven asides and you're all played, that's what retired me. Honestly. Weren't you good in it? I turned inside out. Oh, no. Yeah, it was that. And that was meant to be the fun bit. I was like, right, I'm out. You do know, don't you? Because you just can't quite get to where you need, you know you need to be. And that's when you sort of, you've got a problem. Yeah, no, definitely. Seamus, thank you so much. It's been brilliant. Have you been on. Thank you. Thank you.

1:19:46Gary Neville: Thank you. Lovely to meet you.

1:19:52I know it's amazing full-backs when somebody drops. I'm intrigued by that. Come on, Ian. When someone won? When an attacking player drops and holds for full backs and midfielders everyone gets It's hard

1:20:01Gary Neville: It is hard But Roy you'll have the same problem right Let's say you're a two midfield and a midfield player just drops there and you're thinking do I go or do I not You have a similar problem Yeah it depends on the player and who's in possession Like if Palo's dropping in or something If he gets it we're in real trouble He can have it there We get away with that but we won't get away We all have those dilemmas don't we in terms of do we You know what I mean But like you said Gary I do find any time that we were more compact even for Ireland or whatever it's just easier everyone's getting closer you can get closer someone's staying with that one of course yeah but like some games some games then you can't yeah but what most dread defending players obviously is when there's space and someone's running at you going Seamus if you basically if your midfield players are having a go at you to get up or basically you're having a go at them to basically drop off it means it's too big a space yeah if it's natural and they're in there you just know that you can shoot you can screw yourself you just sense it yeah we're always too deep out with them They'll always be too deep.

1:20:58Gary Neville: I remember Butti once said to me, Nick, about half-time, he came in, me and Lauren Blanc were centre-halves. You two are that fucking deep. You're in the fucking Stratford End. Dropping off. Michael Keane and Tarkovsky would always drop off, wouldn't they? They were never going to push up the pitch, haven't they? No, no, they weren't. And I mean, you've got to play to your strengths too. Oh, they're a good back four? Yeah, they are. They're a good pair? Yeah, they are. Very good. It's beautiful. Nice to listen. It's just a genuine blow.

1:21:52Thank you. Start now at paylossity.com slash one. Hi, Podfans. Max here. Barry's here too. Hello. And now the Premier League is back, Barry, meaning we'll be providing incredibly astute analysis three times a week wherever you get your podcasts. Barry, with the remaining 10 seconds of this advert, can you provide some astute analysis? I think Arsenal are going to win the Premier League. And there you are. For more hot takes like that, watch or listen to Football Weekly wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast. Summer is here and with it, the hot and sticky weather.

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