Crouch: England Fallout, Mythbusters & How To Stop Messi! | Stick to Football EP 143

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2:15It was getting that way, yeah. I left them to it.

2:19Gary Neville: Crouchy, the team have been... They reckon you deleted a tweet last night, which was... Oh, I did, yeah. I did. I did. I've got loads of f***ing grief. I wanted to go, like... The lads, you know what I mean? Let's be proud of them. And you just got battered. What the f*** do you know and all that else? I'm going to read your tweet out to Roy and Ian. I think that's funny. But do you know something? It's sad that you've put something that's quite support. So I'm trying to go positive, right? And then, yeah, and then obviously everyone's piled on. But I'm not going to go into, you know, what I think about the manager and the tactics and this and that.

2:55I've been out there the whole time and I've had the best time. I've had such a good time out here. Yeah, yeah. And every England game I've like, yeah, there's been some good and bad, but I've loved being a part of it. I've got to go into the England camp.

3:07Gary Neville: Yeah. Also, you've been there and been knocked out of tournaments as well. So you tried to be nice on Twitter. Tried to be nice and I got loads and I thought, no one's seen that anyway. Apart from Ciarán and Barrett. You fuckers. He was there all night, just waiting. We'll have him on that tomorrow. He's fucking deleted it. He's deleted it. That's even better. Hey, but Crouchy, it's one of them, isn't it? How long did you leave it up for? I went back to it and then went, oh, I'm getting loads here. I was just like, no one will see it. Later. Oh, that's brilliant. When I saw that, I said, no, you wouldn't have deleted that.

3:45Gary Neville: It's quite a nice tweet. Yeah, yeah, there's nothing bad about it at all. There's nothing bad about it, but there's a lot of animosity out there. It's never good when you get more comments than likes. I just thought, what am I even achieving with it? I know, but it's a reality of... It's a sad reality, that, of where X has got to in particular. you can I mean look if we just read that out gutted we are out but we're watching Argentina was the experience message is genius and a hard bastard as well like the rest of them I'm proud of our lads and what they've achieved at the World Cup some real heroes emerged it was a pleasure to have been here for it how can you get absolutely blitzed for that yeah yeah you know what I mean it's like you've said look we're gutted proud of the lads that played well some heroes emerged you know Jude Jed Spence maybe a couple of the lads and then yeah yeah The whack comes...

4:40It was more so like, you know, you've missed out a fucking load of stuff there. Do you know what I mean? It's a tweet.

4:49Gary Neville: It's not a comprehensive review of the match. You're not a journalist. That's the right fucking essay. I'm not dissecting the game. I'm just saying that I had some great moments out there and players deserved some credit. I didn't say anything about the manager because I didn't want to criticise him or praise him. Oh well. Yeah, right on mate. Roy! Oh look it's Matt! How are you mate? How's things all right? Yeah good to see you mate. Yeah, yeah good to see you. Sorry my hip. Oh yeah. I was going to come play. I was. I looked for it. Hi. You playing with the talk sport boys and stuff? No I wasn't, it was just ITV like the staff in the background.

5:30Gary Neville: I heard you lost Roy. 5-4. Do you know what? We weren't really caught on the score. We were like oh!

5:39How are you? Right here, mate. And sing joy. Great to see you, mate. Yeah, really good, really good. You're talking about this game, no? So did you play right here as well? No, I did start a game. Did you play today? Yeah.

5:51Gary Neville: I got asked yesterday, Roy. It's too late. You know what, I wasn't sure. I didn't want to be chasing you. I just thought... Have you get on? It's too late notice. It was just good. I don't really caught the score, so I wasn't one of them. It was just like... It was like fun, didn't everyone? Who done so? Anyone do anything good? Do you know who was good? Obviously, Karen. Connie. Karen, yeah. She good? She good, she good. You've seen her downstairs. She is, yeah. She's good, Sean. She was captain for the winning team, wasn't she? And you were captain for the losing team, is that right? No, there was all like winning teams.

6:22It's just like staff getting together. There is a T, I'll have one, yeah, if that's all right.

6:27Gary Neville: Yeah, cheers. Oh, we've got a great start point. Oh, fuck off, Karen. We've got a great start point. Oh, not that Karen story. No, I'm not. I'm sure. That's not true either. You're like Rory McEnroy. What's the car story? What's the car story? You've got to talk about the car story. Give him the car story. Let's do the car story first. Ian, do you want the car story? Of course we want the car story. I want to hear more about Ryan's nastiness. Come on, Crouchy. It's a good story. Yeah, let's go. I don't think it's true. Come on, Crouchy. And I know that face. That is a guilty face. He knows it's true.

6:57I think when he finishes the story, you go, that's not like him. You know what I mean? I think you'd be on my side. So obviously, I'm at Liverpool. And obviously, it took me a while to start scoring. and then I a fucking long son by the way a year yeah it was a long time what was the character it was 18 18 exactly yeah after that then which is obviously not ideal and then I have scored but then I've started scoring a few so I thought okay great now you know I've kind of not that I've made it but I'm doing well and I feel to myself wrong and treat myself so I bought myself quite a flash car bought myself an Aston Martin nice right and I'm in I'm in the car but I've got the I've got the arm out, I've got the sunglasses on, I'm at the lights.

7:39I've told this story before, but not in front of Roy. I'm at the lights, I've got the tunes on, and Roy's pulled up alongside me, and I think you had, like, a discovery, would that be right? Something simple, yeah, yeah, like a humble guy, yeah. Yeah, humble guy. And I've gone to Roy as if, like, you know, like... All right. One day you'll have one of these. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You keep going, you'll have one of these.

8:10I've been there for really about three years, by the way. Yeah, so the look that Roy gave me, I'm sure he might have given to you once or twice. The look he gave me was basically I was a piece of shit. And I kind of looked at myself in the mirror and thought, yeah, yeah, and I kind of, something happened and it was just one look from Roy. And yeah, I sold the car the next day. Seriously? Yeah, yeah. It took about 15 grand hit on it, yeah. Is that all? On an Austin match? Yeah, you don't want 15. What was it? No, but it's really important. You said you listened to music. It might have been the music I was...

8:47Might have been there. Yeah, because I like people. I like nice cars. Bit of garage it was, I think. Yeah, it might have been the music. Yeah, it might have been. So it might have been the music should have changed, not the car. I don't know. There you go. But anyway, you know, that's what happened. It's a nice story. I love the story. It was surreal to tell him, it's a nice story. It's a lovely story.

9:09Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. The World Cup ends in a few days and we're delighted to have had Skybet with us throughout the tournament. Make sure you're subscribed, keep the comments coming and stick with us as we bring this World Cup to a close.

9:29Nighty Gordon's gone to me gradually. Like, get involved. And I was that close. The lads are singing Wonderball. And all of a sudden, I... Oh, big man.

9:41Gary Neville: I was watching the photo of that. I'm a new full kit wanker for life. Forget what's inside. You just go and stand with him. That's the extraordinary experience. I know you're kidding yourself. I'm pulling my jets again. I was in the stadium. I was on that right-hand side where he drifted over. You should have got closer to him. I felt like doing something. I mean, I've got long enough arms. I was going to give him a slap or something. Stevie gets the ball for the pen. I'm like, taking the ball off him. got the cup end off the skipper yeah and then miss it of course so he's gone yeah what would you be if you weren't a fan or a nice head of Verge join the club crouching

10:23Gary Neville: so last night England game finishes at 7 o 'clock oh here we go and there's a gentleman puts a tweet out that says, gutted we are out but watching Arnazina was an experience. Messi is just a genius and a hard bastard as well like the rest of them. I'm proud of our lads and what they achieved at this World Cup. Some heroes emerged and it was a pleasure to have been here for it. So Crouchy's tweeted that at a quarter past seven. What? What time did he delete it? We don't know. We don't know. Yeah, yeah. He's deleted. He's been battered for that. So he's literally battered. He just deletes it and gets it off his thing.

10:54Gary Neville: I agree with that because I've seen it. For the same, what you just said? Exactly. That was my tweet, right? I thought, you know, I've seen a lot of, I've seen a lot of negativity and I thought, yeah, I'll just say, because I've been out here the whole time and I've been to all the games and I just felt like I've had the best experience. And I think there's a lot of people who've been out here who have had an amazing experience. And yeah, I saw the negativity about us going out and stuff like that. And I thought, you know, let's just say something nice, right? Put an end up. Absolutely. For praising the team, you were getting to stick up.

11:24I think it was just like believing out the stuff about the manager. Oh, right. You know, for leaving out the fact that, you know, it's like, you know, grow some balls and speak about what the manager's done. But the thing is, when I saw that, I just thought, how long, it was on for a little bit. It was on for a while, yeah. Yeah, but I just thought, yeah, that's okay. Honestly, yeah, but the thing is with the... That's your opinion, man. It's just... Yeah, and I should have left it, but I think, you know... No, you should leave it crouching because, you know something, if they can see that you'll put something on and take it off.

11:56I actually don't even put anything on anymore because everything I say is on here or it's on the TV. They come for you. I honestly do not even look. I don't even care. You've got... If that's how you feel because we've had... How long has it been out here? People say, yeah, well, cool. You've got IT. I don't care what they think. The fact is, in your opinion, that's what you think about. Think about... You can't be running from these people, man, because that's what they want. They want to... They want the pickaxes and they want to chase you out of town, man. Don't let them chase you out. I think this is a bit of arrogance where English maybe fans come into it and maybe pundits or whatever.

12:30It's terrible. Because what, they got beaten in the semi-final. Yeah. The World Cup, next World Cup, the World Cup's going on for nearly 100 years. England have won at once. But there's only 18. Yeah, exactly. There's been 23 obviously World Cups. So why are they thinking they should be winning it? They're competing. They came up short. That's what happens in sport, unfortunately. You know, when you look at it like, because I used to have Vex, I was really gutted. But when it sinks in, they absolutely outplayed us. Regardless of what our manager went all defensive, they outplayed us. And there's a time to reflect on that.

13:04There is a time, maybe it's today when everyone can breathe, but after a game, if that was your emotion after a game, the players gave their all and it's just come up against the greatest player ever, you have to take your medicine in this game. I wanted to do it from my perspective. I went to Mexico and I was in Mexico. and that was probably like, I said at the time, I was probably getting caught up in it all, but it was the best kind of sporting environment, playing or otherwise, I'd been in ever. Right. Genuinely, even playing. Like, just being there, and I don't know if you saw it, but I ended up getting caught up in the celebrations with Harry Kane at the, I was behind the car.

13:37I saw you hug, it was a beautiful thing. I told you in the squad. Yeah, I know. I told you in the squad. I told you in Jordan Henderson. I thought you might have an issue with that one. He's done well to get back in that squad. He's done, he's lovely. He's done playing for a while. Let me tell you one thing, right? There was one thing. I had the hug. I was just caught up in it all. I was there. And I was right behind the goal doing, working with Fox. And yeah, I ended up giving him a hug. It was amazing. And then the photographers were there. And I think it was Jude, Morgan Rogers, and Auntie Gordon.

14:02Auntie Gordon's gone to me, crudgy. Like, get involved. And I was that close to actually getting involved. The lads are singing Wonderball. And all of a sudden, like... Oh, big man. I got it. And I went to the photo. I'll have a new full kit. Don't worry about your Aston Martin. It would have been a big trouble with this one. But you know what? If there you're emotional, isn't it weird? You almost have to apologise for how you're feeling and enjoying yourself and embracing it. Having a moment. And if that was your vibe, particularly down against Mexico, then go away.

14:37Gary Neville: Well, Grouchy, also, you have got, I mean, I'm using the word vibe, but you have got a more relaxed vibe than say, I have all others within the meeting. And that's your style. That's what you are. You would never go out and go, why has he made that substitution in the 73rd? That would be stupid from you. That wouldn't work for you. That's too logical for them to think like that because they've got to think of Crouch's personality. Crouch's personality is a joyful boke. He's going to see the positive in everything. It's compared to just me, isn't it? No, it's still right. He's like me, he's Baby Gandhi.

15:06Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. You were part of the 2006 and 2010 squads where I was part of 2006, wasn't in 10. But I've not seen, maybe it's because it's recency and maybe because I'm just feeling it today, what looking at it. I don't remember Sven in 2006 or Fabio in 2010 getting hammered as much as Tuchel last day. Maybe I'm sort of forgetting a lot of the things that went on back then. Maybe it's because it was 20 years ago. But do you remember that? Do you think that they got, I mean, maybe in 2006 it was Wazza because he got sent off. 2010 was the bit of the goal when it was Frank.

15:42Gary Neville: I don't remember the man. He's got absolutely hammer today. Do you remember Sven or Capello getting hammered as much as that? There's no way they got hammered as much as that. I think, yeah, like with regards to the second half, I think, you know, I've heard you boys talking about it as well. And like the minute we scored, I mean, it wasn't really, I mean, it was, was it 12 % possession? 12 % after that. Since Martinez scored, we had 12 % possession. Yeah, I mean, a retreat was... It's not good enough. Look, it's not good enough. We can say that. It isn't good enough. But he's been absolutely, I mean, he's been killed and whacked today.

16:12I find it, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I really do. I mean, like I say, there were so many positive moments from that World Cup as well. And listen, we haven't won it again. But it's hard to do, right? Absolutely. You're playing against Argentina. Messi's the greatest player we've ever seen walk the earth. You know, and he's not past it by any stretch of the imagination. Argentina work, they're world champions. It's no disgrace. I think the real animosity and the anger comes from how, because, I mean, before the game and at the start of the World Cup, It was Thomas Tuchel Was very much about You know If we go out We're going to go out All guns blazes Freedom and that type of scenario And that didn't happen And then that was like Well you sold us this And you didn't give us it And I think that's where The anger But reality is different It's great having a plan All these managers Going if we get to this position And Garrett used to be Criticised A lot of that From not making changes Or waiting too long And then when the manager It's just this idea But when The reality of a tight game And that possession Obviously is not a good stat when you make them changes.

17:10But at some stage, you're going to come after them a little bit. But yeah, but the manager will have to suck that up. But if you think it's just about those decisions, I still believe Argentina would have found a way. And this idea of England... But they've been doing it all tournament. Yeah, they've been, listen, leaving it late or whatever. And if England had been a bit open or even at 1-0 and started attacking, you'd be saying, why didn't you shut up, Sharp? You're leaving too many spaces. These brilliant teams find a way to win. And that's what they did. And the manager, he's going to get criticised for the subs, of course.

17:37and maybe it was a negative vibe bringing on defenders, shall we say. So he has to take that. My goodness.

17:44Gary Neville: Look, I'm going to read out one of his quotes. I did think, look, at the end of the day, I think that he will regret his subs. I think if we're just talking calmly, I think he'll look back and think, did I send the right message to the players after the goal going in, putting three defensive players on before he puts a... Gary, is that the life of a manager? Yeah, it is. But I'm saying this in a non-sort of what would be explosive manner. He will regret that. I think you look at today and I think, I did give the players a message to hang on and they were dropping deeper in the box and he didn't really help them get out by the substitutes he put on.

18:16Gary Neville: But his quote today, I haven't seen the data yet, but I think right after the goal, the momentum swings completely in ball possession chances and it drops dramatically. We've got two passives within our structure. And then at the end, this quote, I think ball possession plays a crucial role. What, sorry? I think ball possession plays a crucial role. I want to pick him up on this because I think that's, to me, I did have a problem with that. It's maybe not in our DNA like it is in the Spanish DNA or Argentinian or Brazilian DNA to take the ball, control the game and the ball, which is a problem.

18:44Gary Neville: You can't say that with people who he's left. Yeah, I have a big problem with that. Well, because he's left playing at home. Exactly. I think that's where it's all coming from now. He didn't bring Manu on, who could handle the ball better than most. He didn't bring, say, for instance, Saka on, who could probably handle the ball better than most. but he also left Foden, Palmer, Wharton, Gibbs, White, Trent Alexander-Arnold at home, who were technical players. That, to me, wasn't a quote that sat well with me, because I said before the talk, we all did, he's left out what would be generational talents, like Trent and Foden and Palmer, players who've got massive talent.

19:15Gary Neville: So I think that was, for me, something that I've talked about, England not keeping possession. We never used to keep possession, did we? We were gouging against the best teams. It was a problem for us, wasn't it? Yeah, well, it was, but to be fair, we did play. I mean, the Spain teams and things like that, they were built for that one. Do we think, I mean, look, I'm unequivocal. Do any of us think around this table that he is under pressure and that he will lose his job? I think he's under pressure, yeah, no doubt. I mean, the public perception now of just that half an hour. I think because he was brought in to get us over the line.

19:43And I think in the crucial moments, he was going to make the right decisions. And what Gareth got so much to stick for was being defensive in the key moments. And that's exactly what he was. You know what as well, Crouchy? they've given him a four year deal right he's signed that deal they've extended it they've extended it right so they've extended it but I'm thinking I'm thinking right they brought him in he had the 18 month contract it would finish now you know we've had an easy run the qualifications we had a brilliant group you know what I mean as much as we kind of stumbled through it and got through it that's not his fault right no it's not his fault but what I'm saying is in respect to the FAE what's the rush what's the rush why did they give it yeah what's the rush we're giving him the four year deal now I'm saying like you're gonna you should stick with him now because you've given him that.

20:29Oh, I'm absolutely...

20:30Gary Neville: I mean, are we all of an opinion that they should stick with him? I am of the opinion they should stick with him. Yeah, it's absolutely... 100, 100%. Well, it's half an hour's football as well, by the way. You know, like, things happen. You make mistakes for human beings. The only thing I would say... I mean, you're right, Crouch, it's half an hour's football. But I remember, obviously, the penalties in 2006. That was my last half an hour ever in a World Cup. So, for Harry Kane, for John Pickford, for Storms, that is your last half an hour probably ever in a World Cup. So it is a half an hour, but it's a half an hour that doesn't come back very often.

20:59Gary Neville: It might never come back for the lads. At the final moments. It's a big half an hour, isn't it? You know what I mean? You think about those moments we had where we were on the edge of getting to semis and finals, and we just couldn't get over the line, could we? No, definitely not. But I think with Thomas Suga, obviously, the reason why everyone's so angry is because he was brought in for those key decisions. It was like, right, we've got a top manager who's been at the highest level. and when we get in those moments he'll know exactly what to do and unfortunately... Yeah, but sorry, do you want to be getting a foothold in the game, lads?

21:30You're getting Rashford on but they didn't even have possession even if they did have Clare's who could maybe get in behind it, right? They were getting no foothold in the game. No, but at least if they

21:38Gary Neville: knock it forward, Roy, they've got players who can run. Do you know what? I know, but... But if you're knocking it along then they're saying this is like dinosaur football. If you've got Saka and you've got Rashford at least they can move with the ball. Absolutely. They can travel with it. Of course. We saw even Marcus because on a bad day, it's still a threat. But to me, they weren't even getting on it to even be a threat. That side, they were just never getting out of that box. Look at it, Roy, even with Harry coming deep, with us having no one going long, then you start to think, well... Obviously, you can't take Harry off, but surely you're going to need people...

22:09Was it the first or second goal where Bellingham was running up the line? I remember, was that the first or second goal? And there was no one round. No one round. I remember, there was no three or four of their lads, yeah. So he's even trying to get up the pitch. Remember I've said even if he could win a throw, and they had to slow the game down. Yeah, just keep it up there. But then again, you're thinking to yourself, pressure was building. Ivan Toney then, you think to yourself, can we get the ball into a forward who can keep us up the pitch for a bit, give the defenders a breather, maybe we can play a little bit further up the field.

22:33But then you're talking, who's going to get the ball to him?

22:36Gary Neville: Croucher, you played up front and you obviously weren't relying upon your pace, similar to Harry. Do you believe that Harry can't come off him? We were talking about during the game, actually. Do you think it's a case that you just can't take Harry off? It did feel like it was one of those moments where do I take him off, can't take him off, penalties, he's going to score a goal versus we can't get out and he's probably not going to counter-attack for us. Yeah, because I think you live by that or die by it, don't you? Because if you do take him off, we go to extra time or penalties and you go out on penalties where you took Harry Kane off.

23:07There's so many factors when you take him off and when you look at the previous games as well, maybe we were a little bit over-reliant on individual brilliance. We weren't peppering teams, were we? there was Jude or Harry stepped up when we needed the most it wasn't like when you watch Spain play they're just dominating teams you know I never felt we were in complete control of any game but we've got players who can create moments from nothing and you talked about the goal sorry I'll go back to the goal but remember the first goal you have to remind yourself these at the big moment it was from a corner it was from a short corner we're players so we talked about the manager and they're shattered and then I switched and it happened a few times Messi took three or four short corners but he's always looking to get it back obviously he ends up on the edge of the box the players have just switched off there are you telling me that's on the manager?

23:58is that going to do with substitutions?

23:59Gary Neville: that's about concentration well my biggest defence of the manager is that we scored on 55 minutes and he made his first sub on 72 minutes but for that 17 minutes after the goal we sagged back with our attackers on the pitch we had Gordon on the pitch we had Rodgers on the pitch we had Bellingham on the pitch we had Declan and we had answered. So in that 17 minutes there, we were sagging back into our own box. We'd already started the decline as a group of players. So that's where the players have to take responsibility. Could then he have done anything beyond that which would have helped them get up the pitch?

24:32So is that, going back to those quotes, that DNA, is that in us to protect what we've got? Is it because we're so frightened of what we're going to lose? The opportunity of being in a final is so massive for us. has not happened for so long. Fear, basically fear. Fear of going out. It's human nature, isn't it? Your instinct to go back. And remember, they were always going to have to gamble. They're getting praised for obviously throwing on forwards, but they were chasing the game. So they have a different mindset to their substitutions than maybe the England, again. When you've something to hold on to, we've all been guilty of going, let's not be too open.

25:08But you also have to be thinking, do you think 1-0 is enough against Argentina? You know they think they're bound to get one. But you look at Kate, look, you've got to look at the Kate Verde game with Argentina. That's Kate Verde. We're able to break and beat them. Egypt. Egypt. Egypt. Look what Egypt done to them. We didn't even... By counter-attacking. By counter-attacking. Yeah, that's the thing I think. And this is what I'm saying. With us, I haven't seen anybody do that to Argentina. If you are going to sit in and then say, keep coming at us with someone like him, even if you bring on 6 '8 Dan Byrne, If you're not going to, at some stage, be able to get out and get at them, which can be, honestly...

25:48Gary Neville: Because Egypt and Cape Verde weren't keeping possession of Argentina at that point in the game, but they were counter-attacking. They were counter-attacking. And we took all our counter-attacking ability off the pitch, because you've got Jude and Harry. I mean, Jude can run, but he's not a counter-attacker who can travel it. Then you're taking off, obviously, people on the left-hand side. You had Nico O 'Reilly there. You've only really got Morgan Rodgers. You've got one player in the team who can attack, really, from deep. Yeah. That was a problem. this point around and this is not necessarily against these lads it's against us when we play can you ever compete with the the energy that Argentina have to play for their country because it's a horribleness a ferociousness it's something completely different it's like in there in the national anthem no Roy you love Ireland we love England we love playing for our countries you love playing for your country but they take it to another level that's almost like they turn into demons almost it's like their eyes see their eyes their eyes in the national anthem yeah that's like a yeah ferocity that's something like their eyes are just mad but I don't think is that not in the he's talking about DNA is it not in the South American like you know they're passionate people I don't know it's not as if we're not passionate as a nation is it you know of course we are but when you look at them and also I thought the fitness levels if you looked at the last 20 minutes like how much they run how fit they were like some of our lads were dead on their feet and they'd played 120 minutes twice before that and you think where are they getting this fitness from and the bigger problem Crouchy is that all our lads are playing in the Premier League in the physical Premier League they had five players in the team McAllister Fernandez Martinez Romero and Martez the goalkeeper half their team is playing in the Premier League it's not like you can say oh they all play in Spain they all play in like a more relaxed level they're playing in the Premier League some of them lads sorry no I was going to say some of the The question marks, I suppose, our two best players were Harry and Jude, who were playing abroad.

27:44And, you know, if you look at the Arsenal players, Saka wasn't fit, Declan wasn't fit, got to a Champions League final. Is that not a factor as well? Declan not being fit was a big problem. But as being part of a sportsman, finding something deep inside you, I'm pretty sure all their players might have been, not all of them, but carrying knocks or having tough seasons. And a lot of their lads played 50, 60, 70 big games. But again, I think the big challenge when you're playing, no doubt, end of season, big game, is to find something, Peter. You have to... And we're talking about... Again, let's be careful there, because you're talking about Argentina, National Anthem, the passion.

28:17They played with great quality in the second half. Yeah, they were. They could have scored definitely three or four. Two or three or four. I mean, unbelievable chances. Should have gone in two of them. And the two goals they scored, I thought were brilliant. Yeah. I really did. It was a matter of time, wasn't it? Yeah. Messi's 39 years of age. Messi's 39 years and he's going past people he's the one who's the difference he's not 29 he's 39 so it's finding something within you to go we are not losing this game they were never losing that game Argentina never absolutely never losing that game they were never going to let it happen even if it turned into a proper street fight which they didn't have to go down that road they did it to start but then they thought do you think they realise Roy I think they just thought we can play past these when they look like they did take a step back and when they smelled blood It was like Egypt, when they got back to 2-1 the night, it was still 10 minutes.

29:08It's gone. It was going to be 3-2. And the biggest praise I can give Argentina as well, when they get it back to 1-1, Blaydaño going, are they relieved they want extra time? They were like, no, no, we're getting the job. We're getting it now. Their forward passes after that was fantastic.

29:24Gary Neville: I thought the way in which they knew how to chase a game and the way in which they knew how to keep pressure on England with crosses and getting into that ran side, it wasn't just Messi, it was Rodrigo de Paul. And then on the opposite of that, when we went 2-1 down and there was still probably eight, ten minutes to go, wasn't there? Like, there was a bit of extra time. We didn't have a clue how to chase the game in the last seven or eight minutes. It was if we didn't have a plan, you know what I mean? In terms of that last statement, we were shell-shot. Can we go back to it where managers lose their heads over this?

29:48You might do it. Is there a bit of mentality? Is there a lack of belief in that group?

29:53Gary Neville: Thomas Tuchel's German. He's not supposed to bring the English mentality. He's supposed to bring the German mentality of winning. That was what this was. That's the main comment I've seen today from people is, other than the sort of people saying he should be sacked, he bottled it, all that sort of stuff, which I think is going too far, is that this guy was brought in with a German mentality to bring us the steel and the coldness and the ruthlessness in the big moments. What did Jürgen Klinsmann say a couple of months ago on our podcast? Remember he was talking about their ways of finding to win.

30:23For Germany? Yeah, but also just trying to find a way to win. I don't think it comes automatically to him. when we say the Germans, listen, Germany have lost some big games over the years, of course, but maybe England just lacked that moment, them five or ten minutes. Can we really do it? And if there's enough doubt because all them, the past games, I always say don't be a hostage to the past, but maybe the team is. Maybe they go, no, we, it's been a struggle for many years. There is a mentality though, isn't there? If you want something so much, you protect it rather than, you know, go in for another one.

30:56I think that was definitely the issue.

30:59Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet.

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32:49Gary Neville: Mark Gates is after the game, and to be fair, there's reports emerging just before we came in here I see now coming out tonight that the England players were surprised at the tactics and that we were so defensive that's starting to emerge so there's going to be an inquest for next Yeah and there'll be more coming up in the next week Yeah there's going to be an autopsy for next Once they're well away Wait till they've landed We've been there haven't we We're still in We've got to play to third and fourth Oh good point yeah So Mark Gay to be fair I think obviously quite measured goals Once we went 1-0 up we seem to just try and hold on which at this level is just not enough I'm so gutted we should have carried on we should have carried on pushing.

33:22Gary Neville: It kind of felt like we scored and the mentality was to go back and defend. I don't think he could have summed it up any better, to be fair to him. And do you know, if you remember that point when they first started going back into the box and they weren't getting up, I think he's actually in control of that with John Stones. I do think he's got Declan and Anderson in front of him and they were sinking back into him. Is it in? I think, look, Jordan Pickford and the two centre-halves, for me, are responsible for your line. They're the ones that you're basically saying, George, Declan, Elliot get up and they're pushing him up you're almost like getting out I think you see Van Dijk play and you see some of the Spanish centre-half play they're pushing right up aren't they?

34:00Gary Neville: They're getting out of the box it's just interesting that he said we sat back But would England be thinking also towards the end we'd defend the crosses we'd rather deal with crosses even though the crosses were brilliant We've got people there who can do it Yeah so would they be saying the safety is a bit like Mexico towards the end down to 10 men and they were crosses not at the quality of Argentina they were getting in better areas but was there a bit of that going we'd happily defend we'd want people to come to the middle of us playing one twos on the other box but obviously that was the huge mistake they made especially when they're getting loads of defenders on I've said it before when you get defenders on everyone gets a bit relaxed going we've got extra defenders around but a good ball is still a good ball we saw that and if someone's attacking it when you've so many defenders back there are even so many bodies everyone thinks somebody else is doing it and they're all slacking off a little bit going we've got That's enough bodies.

34:49You saw the winning goal. The cross for the winning goal. As if they didn't have a number of back. When you consider the size of the players we've got in there. He gets a free header. He's like, yeah, it's a free header. He's like 5 '10 max and it's just a great cross though. Again, sometimes... He's in a six-yard match right then. Yeah, three yards out. What do you do though, Roy, as a midfielder, right? Because I've played with centre-arves who they want protection. So maybe they're a little bit, I don't know, maybe say they're tired. You just want your midfielder in front of you. Of course.

35:16get back in well that's the biggest argument you'll be having with people yeah your distance is about getting back in keeper's a big one we saw Spain against France the other day where their keeper was almost a sweeper so if Pickford can say get up anything comes over the top I'll be dealing I'll be literally on the edge of my box but again I always say it's very easy sitting here with a cup of tea doing it and they're the big debates with centre halves and also there'll be the players deep down everyone's looking and going you need to get up the players will know that the players will know that but then you go again the safety and also but let's just hope we get away with it.

35:47Yeah, yeah. The crosses are coming in. They've not scored yet. We're down to the last 15, 10 minutes. You're going, but then it's the goal, it's the momentum changing. But there'll still be a belief in the players going, we just hope they keep this. Our keeper might make a big save. Yeah, but Gary, you made the point, Gary, about that's Lionel Messi who's just drifting into that space. He's this Lionel Messi. We had to fill that side. Someone's got, like you said, Gale, someone's got, whether it's Nico, whoever it is.

36:12Gary Neville: Nico should have just been told, like forget everything when he comes into that side forget what's inside you just go and stand with him that's the extraordinary experience I know oh I'm pulling my jets again no no no I know can you not man mark him can you man mark him no I think you can stand we've done it in the first half we can't we've kind of done it Crouchy anyone's ever done that before Crouchy Crouchy if you're messy Crouchy your wisdom is unbelievable Crouchy if you're messy if you're messy if you're messy and the ball's in the middle over here I'm literally almost ignoring the ball a little bit and just saying what are you doing and I'm getting closer the team to deter the pass to deter the pass that's it and fill the area now he then will go and get somewhere else he'll go a bit deeper maybe I don't know but you've still got to get him away from that area do you remember Steven Gerrard used to go in that right and side Liverpool and put those crosses in whip them in you what we used to do is put Anderson believe it or not we used to say right ok forget where if Steven Gerrard moves to that right and side just attach yourself to him and stop him whipping them crosses in similar teams used to do it sometimes with Bex I do think that we should have done better in blocking I'm not saying something right go back to his start of his career when he got in the first team when he was 11 right when he played against Atletico Madrid listen Real Madrid the top European teams when he's winning Champions League for fun when he's winning player of the year every year when he goes to PSG when he's playing for Argentina do you not think teams have tried all that stuff he's very nine now Roy he's surely got half a time you've got a much more advance now when he receives the ball for the winning goal last night there is two players very very near him like as close as you can I I think we're grabbing him.

37:44Gary Neville: No, deter the pass, I'm saying, Roy. Once he's got his feet, he's knackered, I mean, a little bit. But I just think deterring the pass to him in that zone, I just... You've got to be more afraid of him. The football intelligence of these guys. It's like Kane. Why do these guys score the goals? Ronaldo, they'll find... You're saying find space, Gary. He's not trying to find five yards. It was sort of... These top... They're finding... It's half a yard just to make a little movement and pull somebody in. These lads, all right, these are going to be really good players, but they'll never fail. He will never...

38:14O 'Reilly, who played last night when he came on... He will never face it like that for the rest of his career. Hopefully he might play for another 20 years.

38:21Gary Neville: Right, let's meet in the middle, right? You may not be able to stop Messi even if you try and block that side. What I will 100 % say is there is no way they should have been stood where they were with him there. Right, that's all I'm going to say. I'll come with you. Honestly, you may still not have stopped him by standing next to him or being in his area or getting close and deterred past, but you had to be there. You had to be there to make it. The only thing I'd say about that stuff, and they were doing it in the first half, is if England were a bit the Argentinian streetwise or whatever, then just keep fouling them.

38:50Yeah. Just keep fouling them. Yeah, yeah. They give them three kicks away and everyone's going, this is a disgrace. Slow the game down. Slow the game down. There was one moment in the first half, though, where he's put Kane. Kane, oh. And then he's done someone else there. And then Elliot Alistair just absolutely smashing. Yeah, yeah. You think, because I was in the stadium and I was, in that second half, I was about 15 yards away from, I was on that right-hand side where he drifted over. You should have got closer to him. I felt like doing something. I mean, I've got long enough arms. I was going to give him a slap or something.

39:18But he was just there and just watching him peel away and just get out so much space. You could feel the danger, can't you? You could feel it coming and he started with a few...

39:27Gary Neville: Yeah. De Bruyne used to do it for City as well. And why didn't someone man-racked De Bruyne? No, but I'm saying he's right. No, I'm serious. I know we're going around in circles there. No, no, but the players will get all these stats. I know, but what I'm saying is I don't believe we... Look, he couldn't get space in the areas where he would ordinarily operate, which is in that number 10 position, floating in between the lines because we were so packed. So he thought, OK, that's the position where I'm going to try and win the game from. We have to then adapt to that. We have to. Anyway, Crouchy, England's players this morning, you've been there where they're packing the bags effectively in the next 24-40.

40:01Gary Neville: Tell us that. Sorry, do you have another game? I know. I just couldn't even contemplate having that game now. I don't know what you do. even if you're Kavi Manu or something you're not planning you're going to get a run out like I don't know it's you know but you've been there just tell explain to people what it's like when you sort of you get knocked out of a tournament you're not expecting it you feel like you've let people down that feeling this you know what I mean that's yeah I think I played 2006 2010 2010 was very disappointing 2006 was disappointing but not as bad as 2010 we were poor but that I mean you just you just want to hide your face you know I think like you're embarrassed really I think first and foremost, you feel like you've let everyone down.

40:42Your family, the people that have been there, the fans who have come, the nation really. It's difficult and you want to just go as far away as possible. What are people like when they see you? Are they shouting stuff? They find they sound lucky? What are they like? Yeah, it depends what you are. Because listen, I was part of this generation of players that was top level, but I wasn't in the golden generation. I knew that Rooney and Owen would start. and as long as I was the best of the rest, then I'd get banged.

41:12Gary Neville: What about your goal record though? 22 goals in 40 games. I just didn't feel pressure at all when I played for England, whereas everyone else did. Because for me, it was a privilege to be there and I'm looking around going, it's Gerrard, Lampard, Cole, you know, Rooney Beckham's on the right. I'm never, I just thought I'm going to score in every game and I think if I get enough minutes on the pitch, I'll score. So I felt like supreme confidence every time I played for England, which is weird because everyone else you could see was feeling the weight you know of the nation's hopes whereas I I was coming in free like seriously and you're the Nasta Martin as well you're the Nasta Martin speed carriage out there the dream man you're living the dream that's unbelievable do you feel at the time Crouch because you know something you are all you get into that squad and you're thinking about your own thing I'm thinking about playing right but do you feel like you were disrespected and you could have been used a lot more at times there's the times where you just thought what the fuck What am I doing there?

42:07I was at first. Yeah, I think I was disrespected at first because I think it was only Harry and Jamie Riddin. I was at Southampton at the time and they were like, kind of give me the shout for England and everyone's like, no chance, you know, wrote me off really. And then I got in the squad and I always remember one game was at Old Trafford and obviously I signed for Liverpool there and it was early days and people said I wasn't good enough to play for England and this and that. And then I come on a member of Old Trafford and got booed by my own fans. I don't even remember it. England fans, yeah.

42:36And I was coming on and obviously that's our place to be, right? So I'm coming on. My mum's in the crowd and dad, I'm thinking about them really, thinking about them getting upset about that. And I don't know whether it's a Liverpool-Man United thing or whether fans thought it wasn't good enough to play. And there was a lot of journalists who wrote things about me that were very anti-me playing for England. But then obviously I started scoring and then I didn't really stop scoring really. It was good. and then I changed people's opinions and then I knew what I'm quite good at is understanding where I kind of fit in regards to, you've got Rooney and Owen, they're better players than me and I knew that Darren Bench, Jermaine Defoe, Carlton Cole, whoever the players were behind me, if I'm ahead of them, I'm going to get games.

43:23So that's the way I looked at my England career and I think it was good that I understood where I sat in it, you know, and then to be ready when I was called upon. you said that

43:34Gary Neville: I was reading up on you you were mocked a lot just generally weren't you and sort of laughed I mean to be fair we got a bit of that my brother and me yeah a little bit no one probably near as much as you you know what I mean you did get mocked how tough was that in terms of sort of yeah that was hard because it wasn't as hard for me because I put myself in that position but I don't look like a football right and I never have done and when I was a kid you know you get people what was it like what were our parents like when they saw you come on mate if I scored goals it was like well he's four years older because you only go on height don't you don't be laughing right here who you laughing at sorry you can just imagine how tall you were i can imagine what the parents are like oh mate it was a nightmare anyway even if your kid is the same size and they're good they'll find an excuse so they must have when you're like what six inches taller than the rest of them yeah yeah i was i was and you know i've always been taller and that was you know that was how i was but and then people constantly saying yeah yeah but then people start saying yeah but he's got he's got a really good touch.

44:31You know what they say about big men, but you did. You did have a great touch. You did have a great touch. Yeah, well, that was obviously what, like, the minute I walk onto a pitch, there was a misconception of me, right, I need air to head the ball, whatever. And then when I could play, that's what, you know. Changed everything. Changed people's dynamic. And that was, I was very proud of that because, you know, I've changed a lot of people's opinion. A lot. Which was something I had to do my whole life. When you got in the English squad, Peter, were you, as soon as you got in that environment and you said you knew your kind of role, but you're also comfortable with going yeah I belong in this group yeah because the minute I got into training I thought especially with that team right for me as a young lad coming in I'm like the players are my heroes really that I'm getting in there with that's the real test isn't it when you get in training amongst these players you said you looked up to be like I'm comfortable around I felt comfortable within you know the boxes yeah you know what I mean it's a good test and I remember the boys saying I think Beck's saying Stevie you know like people are ruthless in there and you know a player within two touches and there's a couple that they're laughing about and I won't mention anything I'll tell you after Steve might have done that to me when I got in absolutely hammered me yeah and you know that's the sink or swim moment and I'm like well you get a little bit nervous but Shatway I felt comfortable in there like yeah I'm fine here and I felt that my whole time there it says here

45:57Gary Neville: you've quoted before I said there's some really dark moments. No one would ever see that with you because I've always seen you as being, you're always happy, you're always bubbly. What were those dark moments that you had? Well, those dark moments, listen, we talked about it before, there was 18 games at Liverpool, right? And I'm thinking, I've got to go to Liverpool. It's a massive club and they've just won the Champions League, by the way, and Istanbul, probably the best European final of all time. They're not, you know, I think they were thinking Samuel Eto 'er was turning up. No. They got me.

46:23And you know what? That was dark. That was terrible, like horrendous. because I was well I was getting it was a global club and I was getting mocked by you know everywhere and I remember the people that that did it do you know what I mean

46:37Gary Neville: can you think of any of them well yeah there was certain journalists and certain people in the media and I ended up you know I couldn't buy newspapers that kind of thing I couldn't buy you know I couldn't turn the telly on my mum stopped getting the paper delivered because I was a national mockery yeah so obviously that was that was a difficult time and I think the way I am as a person is obviously like as you say like always upbeat happy and that really was a defence mechanism I think from school days really you know what I mean like someone would come at you and I would always say something funnier and quicker than than you would to me you know so it wasn't really like that it was a kind of defence and I think that's and then it should have shaped the person that I was really Liverpool fans that was your moment were the Liverpool gooders go around brilliant like unreal that must have been that got you big help to get through it yeah it was unbelievable like what they did I mean you know bearing in mind they've just won the Champions League and I think they could see how hard I was working and how much I gave for the team and was you still doing all the other stuff yeah do you know what I was playing well right I was playing really well and goalies were just making great saves and everything weren't they Strikers I remember it you loved that no I'm absolutely right because you're like someone else would come on and doing hardly anything and bam they scored you're doing everything I remember watching it Crouchy that's why I get nervous for strikers but that's the life of a striker is it honestly but then I'm thinking Crouchy what's it like you're in your ninth game in your tenth game in and you still ain't scoring there was a few moments in that period dark moments and all I wanted to was stay in and my dad was brilliant with me he'd always go you think everyone's talking about you no one cares the minute they leave the game no one's talking about you I'm thinking and everyone's laughing and I'm just building it all up in my head and he just took me out of that and was like no one cares about you and your life like of course you can go out you can go to restaurants no one gives a shit everyone's left the game so you get to a point where you feel like you couldn't go out yeah I feel like I couldn't go out yeah yeah I did feel like that and then I ended up kind of not really knowing what to do and like yeah like I say how I was was always upbeat I'd always speak to the media I remember Jeff Shreves and that he would always he'd ask me questions after and he'd always ask me about you haven't scored yet Peter Peter Peter I mean one of the moments was unbelievable and I think about it's like an out of body experience so I'm at Anfield Coppen we play in Portsmouth and I think I'm 10, 11 games into it and Stevie gets the ball for the pen and I'm like get off taking the ball off him got the Coppen off the skipper and then miss it of course I remember it, Grouchy.

49:25I remember it, Grouchy. I remember it, Grouchy. I took the ball off him. I took the ball off him. I put it down on the spot. Was it a great save, though? It was unbelievable.

49:35Grouchy, how did you feel after that? But the thing is, right, so I've took it. They've saved it. And Bolo Zenden's... They've saved it. How many keepers are there? They've saved it. They've saved it. Bolo Zenden's got the rebound. Headed it in. Right, okay. So now I'm running after him, fucking just like, I just went to clothesline. Did you get an assist? He got an assist, yeah, he's gone down. Got loads of them. He was so crouchy, I remember the first goal. Was there a bit of a deflection on it as well? Oh, I don't want to take that away from him. No, because I'm trying to figure out people were trying to take it off of him.

50:10Yeah, yeah. You remember it, Crouchy? Yeah, you were match of the day, I remember. No, no, no, no. Because I was saying, no, that's his goal, it was going on target. You know what, I had so many people like yourself. He was going on target. It's only people like yourself that did that were I think that the word China the car. Yes. I'm saying that's his goal Yeah, I think fucking wasn't

50:31I was third last person to touch it touch it so I've had a shot I've had a shot But bearing in mind I've gone for a little maze in a shot from 30 yards I haven't scored 30 yards ever in my life. And it's rebounded off. I can't remember the defender. And I always remember Mike Pollitt in goal. And he's gone to tip it over the bar and he's just thrown it in. And I've run off like that.

51:02I've run off like that. Is that the life of a striker? You needed something like that. Oh, I needed it. Yeah. And then 20 minutes later, I got another one. I went through and I loved the keeper. I was full of confidence. And you rolled back down St Louisville like that. Yeah, then it was all 100%. I'm happy that night.

51:16Gary Neville: That was brilliant. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet.

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52:03Gary Neville: Crouchy, you just said about dark moments. Just think about modern day players. who would be a player today that you'd look at who's had a real, who in the last 12 months that you think of are modern players that are getting that mocking or getting that sort of like laughed at. I'm trying to think of a player now. Harry Maguire. Yeah. Harry Maguire's had it. I think what he had was, yeah, I think he's kind of come through that really. Yeah. I think what he got was that. Yeah, you know, and like a bit of mocking like that. and I was pleased for him when he you know he's obviously come through that a bit you know and gone out the other side so yeah I look at players I always want to try and give them a bit Which England players this morning do you think will be the ones that will be like feeling it most in terms I think it will be the lads that are experienced that may be thinking I'm not going to play in the World Cup again and that's it I've missed my chance I think it will be the younger ones who just you know don't know how to handle it they've never seen it before how do you think that will pan out this morning to be fair the experiences I've had are always very bad ones I'm just pleased that there's no there's no scapegoat yeah that's the main thing unusually there's usually a scapegoat as a player the manager is getting it this time isn't he it would be interesting though they're big games in September don't they that Nations League they're like in the top league they're playing I think Spain isn't it yeah so are they kind of will you find out what he thinks about the squad in the next selection who falls to the side will he bring them lads back in how does he I mean I think he's got some challenges now in terms of those lads he's left out the likes of Foden, Palmer, Trent.

53:34Gary Neville: That's my whole point. Gives White. And then obviously just Maynew, obviously, who's not played. He will have some challenges now. Will there be anybody not want to be involved? Will it be like the lads getting older with stones, all these lads still want to be... There'll be a couple thinking, shall I come out of it now? Does it feel like the right... What we'll say is there's a couple of managers that I've seen, Capello and Glenn Hoddle, who didn't get sacked at the tournament but became very difficult very quickly thereafter. Because the players met up again in August, September, and they were just like, you know what I mean?

54:06Gary Neville: Imagine if you bring some of those players back, that feeling's just not quite there, and that trust. He's got to keep... I think he's got an important three days. This might be actually good for him. I think so. In the sense that he can build trust in this next... Not build trust. Maintain the trust in this next three days. I don't know what you think about that, but he has got a job now, I think. Well, we kind of laughed a bit earlier about this game coming up, but also it's an opportunity for players to say, man, you're an opportunity to play in the World Cup. And I think you get a medal, isn't it?

54:32Yeah, the bronze medal. It just might change a few players' perception of the manager over the next three or four days. Who knows? And at least when they go back to England, they get some sort of good feeling back into the group. Do you think the guys, you know the guys that you left out that we were all talking about, do you think their stock's gone up now?

54:50Gary Neville: I don't think anybody wins. I don't think anybody wins because they've been left out. They've been, not humiliated, but they've been embarrassed. If you're Cole Palmer and you're Foden and you're Trent, you're a little bit embarrassed. you can't get in a squad of 26. You're not sitting there and thinking... Yeah, but the way it's panned out and the way that game went... So, Nev, would you say... No, but you would be right. They're not embarrassed, but they'll be thinking... Yeah, but they were needed. But when you look at it, Gal, I don't think they're embarrassed because when you look at it, if I'm one of them now with the capability and the way I could play, I'd be thinking, well, I could have been used there.

55:20Right, so we said... Yeah, but how do you respond? It's just been Peter's talk in there about setbacks in careers and dealing with it and people laughing at players and... But is that not a challenge for a player to say get the better last squad in September and we move on quickly because that's the life of a footballer isn't it the ups and downs also as well if you're one of those players who hasn't played much as well if you go out and perform against France and they play a good side there'll be a lot of people going why wasn't he starting it's an opportunity for you to kind of put yourself in for the next for the Euros you know well they make lots of changes you reckon

55:55Gary Neville: that'd be interesting I think I'd make a few what's a few two or three or like seven or eight. Declan's not going to play. So I think Mane, he's got to play, you'd think. But what if he doesn't start him? I think that would be a bad one. I think it'd be a bad one. I think it'd be a bad one. Oh, you want to see him in that environment again. Yeah, I think he'd be a bad one. Crouch, you moved around many different clubs. Was that the moment that was most difficult at Liverpool? What was your high? What club did you feel like this absolute peak here? It's just amazing. Where was that moment in your life?

56:23Yeah, Liverpool was, you know, we got to, we won the FA Cup 2006 just off the back of Istanbul. Then we got to another Champions League final in 2007. We lost to AC Milan. It was in Zagy. Got a couple of goals. But for me, that I scored, I was top goal scorer in the Champions League that year. I was top goal scorer in the league for Liverpool that year. I was, I think I scored 10 in the calendar year for England. Yeah. And like, it was everything. Was that 2007? How old was you then? How old was you? 6-7. Yeah. I was 26. Nice. 26. 26. Perfect. Yeah. I just felt like every time I'd go away of England at that time, it was just before 2006 World Cup I felt like I was a scorer every single time I just kept scoring and you know culminating a hat trick before we went to the World Cup and it was like yeah I just felt like and Rafa was he was quite strange of it because he he was trying to keep me grounded and I think everyone that knows me knows that I'm not you know I'm not getting carried away apart from the Aston Martin it's the music of the cap it's the music apart from the Aston Martin I really pay to that you know what I mean so I was always quite grounded and yeah he kept I kept going away with England I remember scoring in both games in a double header and I'd scored a hat-trick I think against Arsenal yes Liverpool Anfield and that was a good Arsenal team and I just felt like I could walk on water you know one of those was that the over kick the third one was it it was where I took it and then I went past Torre and then left foot was that the one yeah the over kick must have been that was Galatasaray sorry that's but yeah it was just felt great And I came back and I'm thinking, right, I am Knight.

57:58And then he dropped me for three games. Wow. And I was like, I couldn't, I think his thinking was, I don't want him getting carried away. But I just wasn't that type of person. Did you go see him? Did you have to see him? Well, I just, he wouldn't really speak to you about things. Yeah, Tarris sounds like that. It's weird, like, how he got the best out of players. Like, he got the best out of Steve. Like, Stevie won Player of the Year that year. I don't know if you remember, from right midfield. He scored, like, 25 goals from right midfield. It was incredible. because he had a good midfield of Alonso, Mascherano, Sissoko, and then he played Stevie out on the right.

58:32But the way he got Stevie playing was just, he would never give him a well done. And Stevie's the type of character to take it on himself and go, I'm going to show you. And I think some players couldn't work that out and they didn't have that fire inside them to try and change it. But yeah, you just couldn't ever work him out. So I'd go like, oh, I'm on fire and then be dropped for three games. And he found it really difficult to kind of understand it, really. Who was your best strike partner that you ever played with? Well, you know, I had some great ones over the years. Me and Defoe got on great together.

59:08Van der Vaart as well when I played at Spurs with him. I mean, our team, when I was at Spurs, if you remember, we got in the Champions League for the first time where we beat City. And we got in the Champions League. and then it was obviously where Bale went, you know, just kicked on. And we had Lennon, Modric, Genis, Bale. Yeah, myself and DeVoe or myself and Robbie Keenan or it'd be Van Der Vaart. But when Van Der Vaart came, it was just like for me, it was like we just chilled straight away. It was amazing. Was he your best partner, would you say? I think connection-wise probably, yeah, because also he wasn't like, me and DeVoe were great.

59:48but he very rarely passed. I love him to pieces. One of the greatest goal scorers. He might have been, you're right, he was a genius at finishing, but he didn't pass much. I remember one game at Wigan. Do you remember we won 9-1? Yeah, he scored five. He scored five? Yeah. Do you know how many years I was in the box for? I reckon I had three tappings and he was on the end to the sixth half box. and he's gone near post. Near post. He could have squared it. Easy. Could have easily squared it. But, you know, that's what makes it.

1:00:29Gary Neville: Besides that, he's a great lad. Yeah, he's a great guy. He is a good lad, you know, is he? He is a good lad. Very good lad. Right, Crouch, we've got some myth busters on you. Are these true or false about Crouchy? So you've got to keep quiet, Crouchy, for a second. this is for us, right? Yeah. So, okay, at 13, Peter Crouch jumped out of a tackle in training and after the session his father had left leaving Peter to get home from White Hart Lane to Ealing he hadn't been on a tube before so he basically left him at the train because he jumped out of a tackle is that true or false? I don't know about your dad I think his dad would do that I think his dad would do that just the way you were speaking toughen him up a little bit yeah just as like yeah what about your dad did he do that?

1:01:05Gary Neville: he did do that how old was he Crouchy? 13 he probably looked 18 so he could get on the bus in a tube so what's happened a long way from White Hart Lane but he done that to you? a long way to White Hart Lane to Ealing Yeah, he did, yeah. But you know what? I never jumped out of the circle again. Seriously, yeah. Exactly. And there's a reason. I'm just, you know, sat here with you boys. It's amazing how influence your dad's can have on you. Stuff like that. Not from a coaching point of view, but just... His dad was like on a drive home, though. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Your dad's always drive home.

1:01:36My dad used to always say to me, whatever happens in the game you're playing, you get stuck in. That was my dad's advice every game. Yeah. Did you do it? Well, I was obviously trying to get stuck in, yeah. Yeah, it was good. Great advice. I think everyone who's kind of got to a certain level as someone, it might not be their dad, it could be a schoolteacher, someone who gives you the hard advice that you need. And I think that was my dad. I'd always get in the car and it'd be like, if I've played badly, I know that the first question is, how do you think you played today? It's not like, well done today, son.

1:02:10And then he'd let me know. But if you give me a bit of topic.

1:02:15Gary Neville: Nice. Right, next one. Crouchy used to carry a pack of cards with witty answers to people who would mock him for his height at school. So he used to carry cards around with witty answers on for people who would mock him for his height at school. Do we think that's true? I don't know if these are true or not, by the way. Yeah, but he just said they were at school and people were giving a bit of hassle. Yeah, but he naturally had... Yeah, he had one to take it away from him. Have you carried cards with him? I can't see you would have carried cards around with you. It's a strange thing to say. Someone's going to tease him and then he's going to pick a card out.

1:02:46Gary Neville: I must admit, though, if this is not right, then there's some sick bastard over there. In the fucking production crew. You know what, I'm going to say... I'm going to say yeah, because it's so weird. Yeah, I think it's weird. Is it weird? Crouchy, is that true? I don't think it is true. I don't like it. That is true, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Two out of two. These are the Navajo cards, Crouchy. I don't get it. Let me explain you. Crouchy. No, I'll tell you what, because what it was, actually someone printed them up for me, because I said in an interview once that people, when they see me, quite often if they don't know me or know where I am, they'll ask the same.

1:03:24And tall people in general will tell you the exact same thing. They'll go, what's the weather like up there? Right? Yeah, okay. Do you play basketball? And how tall are you? Right? So I just answered all three of those questions that you're about to answer. So the minute they go, or, you know, like, what's, I'll go, boom. Right? and give them a card and it just answers all the questions so you don't have to ask no you just go like there you go shut up mate

1:03:55it was a good way of shutting someone up who thinks they're being funny yes yeah listen people think they're funny quite often they think they're the first ever the first to ever say at all what's the weather like up there you know that kind of thing

1:04:11Gary Neville: this episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. Next, Mythbuster. When Rude Hullet signed for Chelsea in 1995, a young Peter Crouch was interviewed after purchasing the first Gullet Hullet shirt, though he didn't have his number on the back as it hadn't been announced. It's 100 % true. I've seen it. Have you? So Crouch was at this club shop at Chelsea buying the Hullet shirt. Well, you definitely get interviewed about Hullet or a shirt on. I've seen a clip of that. It's true then, Crouch. Yeah, man, I was a big Chelsea fan as a kid and yeah, I was a ball boy there. Peter after Peter Osgood, believe it or not.

1:04:48Nice. Yeah, so yeah, my dad was Chelsea in the 70s. Made me watch the cup final of his leads in 70 and replay. Yeah, Dave Webb. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I mean, that was kind of my life. I had a rabbit called Kerry Dixon. Oh, Kerry Dixon. Yeah, I did. I did. I was, you know, and it's weird because I can't get on board anymore because I play for Liverpool, play for Tottenham and I've been back in some of those hot atmospheres the semi-final the Champions League that kind of thing it kind of got I couldn't get on board with it anymore but yeah and I bought the Hullet shirt that was the change I think Matthew Harding kind of took over and we started getting players Glenn Hoddle was the manager played as a sweeper then we got Roode in and then it started going for Yali Dimas Hale started changing but Hullet was for me the catalyst of all of that and yeah I got his shirt You'll find out you'll be able to find out now that interview

1:05:41Gary Neville: that was brilliant Yeah, it was funny. Right, when Crouchy joined Liverpool in 2005, he stayed in a hotel while searching for a home. During training, he told his teammates he had a crush on the hotel's beautiful receptionist. Jamie Carragher encouraged him to share the story with the squad, only for Crouch to discover the receptionist was the new teammate, Xabi Alonso's wife. Oh, my God. Oh, that sounds so much worse in the moment. Is it true, Crouchy? So basically, you were getting into Xabi Alonso's wife, Crouchy. Is that a myth? Crouchy, that's true, isn't it? Oh, mate. Oh Jesus. He's gone red, he's definitely true.

1:06:14Fuck yeah. Oh, and he's, we're trying to bust him. Hey, yeah, I'm just getting stuff here. I'm blaming you. So is that true? Oh, well, yeah. Basically, I'm in the hotel, and there's a lovely looking Spanish girl on reception, and she's smiling all the time. I'm like, you know, she's being really nice. I think, yeah, I'm in here. She's you. I'm in, Peter, yeah. I was for you must be me anyway I've got yeah this was the case but she's only there to learn English she's to jab his missus right now we're an all-cid it I've only been there a week but Kara oh I dropped you in it Kara oh man he's gone them so what do you I'm telling him about this Spanish and he knows full well, he knows which one it is, because he's like, I know that, I know that.

1:07:12He had to get the passport off him to get in. So then he's gone, oh yeah, Crouchy's got a store here, so he's gathered all the lads around, he's got Jabby over and everything. And I've just explained it again, and then obviously they've all burst out laughing. What's Jabby though? He was good as God, you know. He was good as God. And he had no chance.

1:07:35Gary Neville: Right, Crouchy has a picture with Mickey Rourke, in Miami in 2006 and Mickey recognised him for being Robot Boy. Cool. No, I'm not having that. No, but that's a strange thing to say again, Mickey. Mickey Rourke. Any reason for. And they went out for dinner after it says. I'm trying to look at Grouchy's face again. I think it's true. You know Biff Busters. I think it's true. What a life you've had. I've had a bad life. Is it true, yeah? True catching. Wow. Isn't it? That's amazing. Yeah, it was just after the World Cup 2006. The robot. Yeah, and obviously, you know, I suppose I was known more for the robot than I was anything else.

1:08:19Yeah, I've gone to, I've obviously tried to get as far away from, you know, England as possible, you know, 2006, gone out in the World Cup and I'm in Miami. And yeah, I ended up in a bar and I've just walked past, didn't even think I'd run it and he's like, hey, you're a robot boy. You're a robot boy. I've gone, I've gone, what, you're Mickey Rourke. Like, wow, that's amazing. And he's gone out and I said, can I have a photo? And he's like, yeah, yeah. So I've got a photo at home of me and Mickey Rourke doing a robot. But there's more, there's more to it. Then we do that, we have a great night.

1:08:56And he goes, take my number. We're going to be at the so-and-so tomorrow night. So I'm with the lads. I've gone, oh, you know, great. might see Mickey walking tomorrow. Ended up, bang, he's there again. Gone out with him again. So then the next night goes, we're going here. I'm thinking he lives here, by the way. We're on holiday. And he's going again. And I'm going, fuck, I'm dead here.

1:09:17Third night now. I'm like, I don't know. Anyway, we get this knock at the door. And we must have told him our hotel room. I was, God's honest truth is this. No bullshit. And I've looked through the thing. and he wants us to come out again but we're all hung over so I'm rooming with my mate and I've looked through and I've gone fucking Nicky again he's stalking us and he's gone your mate has gone so yeah we couldn't do three nights with him was it tough nights yeah like long long evenings and then I've got this letter and he put a letter under the door just writing about how much fun he'd had I've still got it beautiful Beautiful.

1:09:58Yeah, I've still got the drink. What an experience.

1:10:00Gary Neville: Brilliant. It was good. It's the best Mythbusters ever. Ian, brilliant this. Prince Harry once asked you, how did you bag Abbey Clancy? Did he... Did he... Did he cry? Did he say that, Crouchy? He did, mate, yeah. I bet you were gutted when you... Oh, I was gutted. I think you might have been there when it happened. Tell you why. It was... I think it was the UNICEF game. Old Trafford did you play in that David Beckham organized it maybe around that schools I know schools you perfect get Ryan gigs played yeah quite a few played and he came into the dressing room before the game so Alex Ferguson was a major I think we had Carl Ancelotti was the other man right it was amazing town old chapter he doesn't say in front of anyone did he come in and he said yeah Crouchy said how did you bag Abby like that I've gone like and the worst thing is he was like he was going out with his one like no i wish i'd have said to him like you can talk i didn't i wasn't quick enough he's gonna say something about he should have said something about his hair yeah i didn't have anything back and uh yeah but you know he was obviously the prince i just i was taken back by it yeah yeah that was a bit out of order yeah oh thanks best Is there any of these that aren't actually true?

1:11:22Gary Neville: Exactly, yeah. Last one. Burnley offered Peter Crouch a contract extension, but he didn't want to be known as a substitute. Is that true or not? That's true as well. You were there for about six months. Yeah. Who was you with Crouch? John Dyche. John Dyche were there, yeah. I'm going to say that's true again. True Crouch? Yeah, that's true, mate. That's true, yeah. You didn't want to do that now, Crouch? No. You know what? I still felt like I could do something. Yeah, you know, I'd never had pace. All my attributes never kind of waned, really. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, I didn't have pace.

1:11:57You know, like, I relied on things that I could still, I was still 38. Yeah. And I was still going. I could probably do another year. And I think they would have offered me another year. Yeah. But I was coming on kind of late in games, 10 minutes. Yeah, no. It felt a bit degrading a little bit. You know, I'm coming on and I'm just trying to win headers like last minute, trying to get knocked downs. and felt like I was better than that, you know. It wasn't everything against Sean Dyche or Burnley because, you know, it was great. I loved my time there. It really helped me, really, because we went from the best dressing room, like really good dressing room, stoked to one of the worst.

1:12:32Kind of... At Stoke? A bit, yeah. We tried to get too many kind of maybe players in, you know, and we went too far the other way from what we were and it became... I was disillusioned. In the dressing room, I was seeing things that I'd never normally see and would never have seen four years previous. So then to go to Burnley and be part of a great dressing room again, I was like, oh, we're all right now. And then I can go out with that. And I felt comfortable and, you know, playing the Premier League and went out and that was me done. They looked like a good group, that Burnley group. It was a good group.

1:13:08Well, yeah, they achieved things. And also there was better footballers in that dressing room than to give them credit for, you know.

1:13:13Gary Neville: Yeah, of course. They worked the bollocks off, didn't they? They worked so hard and they were organised they knew exactly what they were doing and it was a good group I had a nice time at Burnie I finished at Burnie brilliant Crouchy last question because you just said about your attire in there you were the first person first player that I can ever think of that launched a podcast yes and you're now obviously committed completely do you love the media career did you never consider going to coaching or doing stuff like being a manager and stuff like that I did my badges I did my badges got some A licence and things like that and I thought you never know which way you're going to go, do you?

1:13:47But yeah, the podcast just took off because I did a book and then someone said, I'll do a podcast to promote the book and I'd never even heard of the podcast. I was really early days. It was 10 years ago. Yeah, almost 10 years ago now. We've done 400-odd episodes. It's crazy, really. It's brilliant. It's been going a long time. It's just, we have a real good life doing it and I thought no one would really listen to it and I thought, you know, I'll do it And then it just grew like this cult following that we've got now. And it's taken me places. Like we've been to Kensington Palace. We've had Elton John on.

1:14:20We've had, you know, people that like not even associate with football actors and stuff. And it's taken me to places that, yeah, it's my favourite thing I do. I'm passionate about it because it's all mine now. It's like, you know, we've got the production team. We've got the people in. We're all a team. And we've got this group of fans that just love it. And they repeat coming to some of the in jokes and stuff like that. and when I walk down the street, someone might say something that we've said and it just makes me smile every day, you know? And, yeah, thankfully it's been going this long and I absolutely love doing it and for as long as people kind of enjoy it, I'll continue to do it because, yeah, it makes me happy as well.

1:14:59Gary Neville: Which one do you like the most? The one that you do with your podcast or the one with Abbey, which one do you like the most? Well, the football one's a lot easier. It is funny, though, the one with Abbey. He is good. He's great as well. He is good. But, you know, that's the thing with her, like, because I know, like, there was probably a misconception of her maybe, you know, footballer's wife, whatever. But I know how funny and how, like, cutting she could be. And, like, she's, you know, she's clever. Right. So I'm like, I know what she's like. And the minute people hear her and hear her having a go at me, basically, and, you know, rinsing me, people are going to enjoy it.

1:15:34Right. And I think, yeah. And that's kind of the same level now, which is great. Crouchy, what about the one that people always say about when they say, what would Peter Crouch be if he wasn't a footballer? Is that true? Yeah, that was true. It was a long afternoon of interviews. You know, when you do, like, say you're doing, I don't know, like a brand deal or something like that, and you've got loads of interviews. And by the end, people ask me the same questions. You just start doing stupid things, don't you? So he's gone, yeah, what would you be if you were a footballer? And I said a virgin.

1:16:06and it just kind of took... Trying the club crouching.

1:16:15What's that other podcast? I reckon 50 % of footballers are footballers because of that.

1:16:25Oh, I love it. No, it's fine.

1:16:28Gary Neville: Oh, well.

1:16:32Gary Neville: The World Cup final is here and the biggest ever ITV7 football jackpot is up for grabs a huge £150 ,000 could be yours after£375 ,000 has already been won throughout the tournament including£100 ,000 in two of the last three rounds answer the seven questions on the ITV7 app or website for your chance to win it's completely free to play good luck 18 plus TNCs apply

1:16:59Let's do it then, let's go. Crouchy. Crouchy. Crouchy. Crouchy. Locking that in? Of course I'm locking in. Number one. 53. That's a lot. Drogba? Shearer. Shearer. Shearer, yeah. Shearer. Number two. Drogba? Shearer. Dion Dublin. Dion Dublin, Jack? Dion, yeah. Dion's got a bit there. Dion Dublin. Yeah, good show. Dion Dublin. Jesus. What about the teddy bear? Teddy shan - Hold on a second. How many lives again? Three lives. You've got three lives, yeah. Oh, so you don't want to go shouting too? No, but we can - How far we going back then? Do you think the best shouting would be down? The teddy bear, teddy bear?

1:17:39Les? Les. Les Ferdinand. Les Ferdinand. Yeah. Have you seen this? I'll be honest with you, I own top of it, so yeah, I have seen it.

1:17:52I'm pretending I don't know it. I'll Google it, we don't know. It's going to be easy. Who's five? Let me tell you five, I've got this.

1:18:11Not Teddy in there? I want to put Teddy in. Teddy's number seven. Yes, man, Teddy Bear. He's level with Duncan Ferguson. Oh, he's mentioned big Duncan. Oh, Duncan, yeah. I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, Navy. McCain. Harry Kane. I don't know how many goals he got. Oh, yeah. He's got a play. Harry Kane. You're right. Do you do the other one?

1:18:31Gary Neville: No, I'm fine. He'll be Wazza. I'm a good actor. Wazza scored a load of headers. I tell you, Mike Lawrence scored a load of headers. But I think Wazza was a load of headers. Yeah, they had them against you, Nev. You can get an across, yeah. You don't get loads right here? I think Wazza. Not a load of headers. Wazza. No. Wazza. I've got a few. Alan Smith. Sean on his head, yeah. I'm thinking Wazza, to be fair, because I think he's scored a lot of hand. We don't want to get any wrong either. It would be nice to get it. It would be nice, though. Consider I know this as well. Do you know that? No, no.

1:19:00Gary Neville: I know that last one. Heskey? He'd be up there as well, I don't know. Maybe. Yeah, Heskey, Wazza. A Drogba is the other one I think of. It'll be one of them. You're right. Yeah. It'll be one of them. I would probably go, though, Wazza, you know. Do you think so, Wazza? I don't know he scored like literally hundreds of goals so you're thinking has he scored between 36 and 40 headers I've got one I think what about what about Yorkie getting a lot of headers I don't remember Yorkie getting a lot of headers yeah no he scored he scored a few headers Robbie Fowler what about Robbie Fowler Frank but not really headers not headers no no I think yeah let's narrow it down yeah I think Wazza probably is worth because it's just his amount of goals Sorry, but who did you just mention there?

1:19:45Oh, boy, York, I said. Yeah, Yorkie did get a lot of head on.

1:19:48Gary Neville: Villa as well. Yeah. Uh-oh. Is it someone? Let's not mess this up now. I'll give you a clue. No, no. No, just one clue. Just a little clue. He was good in the air. He's what? He's good in the air, yeah. Oh, it's not Wazza then. Andy Cole? Wazza was quite good in the air, but I wouldn't put him as being... If he said he was good in... No, I think... Yeah, I think Drogba's a good shot. Wow. Yorkie, yeah, Yorkie could be sneaky. How long was Jogba in the Premier League for though, that's the thing. You've got to score a couple of hundred goals to get. How many goals did you score altogether? 108.

1:20:19Alright, so 53 goals ahead of us. So I got 400. Nearly half. Yeah, 49.1%. Yeah. So half of them, nearly. Just say half. Try Waza. Oh, this is a tough one. Try Waza? Yeah, try Waza. Here we go, Waza. No. Oh, jeez. No, this is where the trouble starts. No, this is the trouble, he gets the next one wrong. This has to get hangry. I think Drog... Well, what did you say before? I said Dwight York. I feel like I've seen him on that list, and I'd be honest with you, I've Googled it a few times.

1:20:48Gary Neville: I wasn't even a chance. Well, I think if he's got a gut instinct, we should go with it. And York, yeah, York. Do you want that in? Yeah. Connect. Oh!

1:20:58Jesus!

1:20:59Gary Neville: Do we win more money, that, by the way? No. We would have never got York. Do we get extra money? We must do. Speak to ITB. He's a good editor. Very good. You're OK. You must have got a few them assists. Never, probably. How many did I add? I don't even know who I add. Prouchy. Thank you so much. Oh, absolute pleasure. Well done. That was amazing. Good to see you, man. Really appreciate it. Thank you.

1:21:26Gary Neville: This has been a Global and the Overlap production.

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