Did Arteta Get it Wrong? & Ballon d’Or Fallout!| Stick to Football EP 95

0:00Gary Neville: Just before we get started, I just wanted to say a big thank you to our partner Skybet and please don't forget to subscribe if you like. I hope you enjoy this episode.

0:30another year of falling just short, probably. World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch full episodes on YouTube. Is your cost of home insurance increasing? Get a quote online today with Arizona Home Insurance Company at ArizonaHomeInsurance.com. Arizona Home Insurance Company is a direct local home insurance company, is A-rated by AM Best, and has an over 90 % customer satisfaction reported. We are Arizona-based since 1990 and part of the regional Western Mutual Insurance Group, which has been insuring homes for over 80 years. That's ArizonaHomeInsurance.com. Direct. Reliable.

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1:45Gary Neville: kieran the chocolate cookies look what is wrong with the cookies are you happy platform for me to pick one up and then put it back it is in it no i think you can look at them they're alright aren't they look at them they're unbelievable Gales them they're Gales going up in the world yeah it's all Gales we're not messing around are we no we are not are you happy with them going forward or is that a win or keep them off they're unbelievable are they yeah I like the M &S ones I mean let's have a I'll have your bet go on it's

2:18Gary Neville: what's the bet I'm trying to think what the forfeit is I've got a forfeit for you go on My forfeit is you have to sign my Man United 5-0 win ticket that I've got from Old Trafford. You've got to sing glory, glory, Man United. All right. What's the bet, though? The bet is which of these four picks that cookie up first? I'm going Roy. I'm going Cara. If neither void... What? If neither void of the other two, JL or Wrighty. Right, there's a lot on this.

2:57Gary Neville: I don't think 70 ,000 or 60 ,000 Arsenal fans can be wrong. He's going to regret this because he's got players there that need to play in these games. He didn't go for it. He's just got it wrong at the moment with what he's done there. I was thinking about Pep Sunday night. I was driving... All right, Gary. Well, Tinky, they got home Sunday night and reflected and thought, where am I at? Hundreds of staff drinking champagne. I'll sprain each other doing dances. So, Pep, you've got hundreds of staff. so I can dare help you deal with their fatigue came as arguably the best pass of the ball on the Premier League is passing we used to just drop teeth it was unbelievable you finally made an argument, you made a debate I could not believe it not getting up to the ball, not tracking back I was like, is this a different team?

3:38Gary Neville: we've all been sent off stupidly around this table but then taking your shirt off you're not going to have done it I know I said that but what I'm saying to you is I was pinned up in the dressing room

4:05Gary Neville: Get in! F*** yeah. What's up guys? What happened there? We had a bet. Me and Kieran had a bet who would take the first slug of the cookie. He went Cara, I went Roy. And he had to sing Glory Glory Man United in his head. So what have you got to do? He's got to sign my Man United old Trafford five nil ticket. Wasn't it heartfelt as well? It was heartfelt. It has to be no, no, no. You've texted him and told him to pick it up, haven't you? He told them outside. You have, I know you. That one was going to be me. It was always going to be Karen. I thought you'd walk in and look straight down. I know, I've done that.

4:36Gary Neville: No, not yet.

4:37Ian Wright: He always checks it out first. I just had a twirl as well. Do you like a playing club? Jamie's tired. I can see Jamie needs some sugar. Jamie needs some sugar. Well done, man.

4:47Gary Neville: Yeah, you definitely had drinks.

4:50Ian Wright: Jane, you look like you've had a few and you've got over it and you're in a good place now. Can we breathalyse him? No, honestly. Was it really good, Jane? Was it like touching, Jane? Yeah, it was nice, yeah. I can imagine. Were you there for three days? You made the most of it. Yeah, I went Monday. No, there was a thing Monday. We went there sort of like just, I don't know, some season tickles, some people at the club. And then the next day, so that was Monday. Tuesday was the game. But the game kicked off it. I thought I'd got it wrong with the time difference. It was 7 o 'clock there, so what's that in England?

5:24Yeah, 6 o 'clock, isn't it? How much did you drink? You're tired. No, but it just felt like a strange time.

5:28Gary Neville: It's usually 9 o 'clock there, isn't it? Yeah, but it's to do the TV, so we had to go to the stadium. Met the players. Valverde. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I couldn't get on small, he was. Nice guy, yeah, nice guy. Yeah? Remember me telling you about how nice he was with me? Yeah, yeah. The only manager that was nice with me in Spain. Right, yes. Valverde. Yeah. Had they just beaten you, though? The Beatles, yeah. No, it's easy to be nice when you win, isn't it? Twice. Once in the Europa League and once in the league. He loved you. Twice. He didn't see you as a track carry, that's why he was nice to you.

5:56Gary Neville: No, he was nice, he was respectful. He was good. He was good. I tell you, so the team with Laporte's playing for them now, isn't he? Oh, OK. He was there before, wasn't he? Yeah, I had a chat with him, he was nice. The star player wasn't playing as Nico Williams, wasn't he? So we saw him before the game. But it was nice, he just made a fuss here. and really nice, brilliant club, you know, what they stand for. What a stadium, by the way. I know. We played them in that stadium. OK, it's still the old San Mames, I think what they're saying is a little bit like Tottenham. They twisted it around. Yeah, it's sort of on the same side, but it's gone the other way.

6:30But it's a lovely stadium.

6:31Gary Neville: Where did it take you after? Clubbing? No, no, those days are well gone, Jill. No, they didn't win. They druced, you know, everyone's looking a bit of a, they're supposed to go and see the manager at the end of the game or the players. I was like, no. No, Jules. If they want to see us. You know what I mean? No, just remember something sweet. No, but well done. It's a great thing. Yeah, well, guys will be getting it next. I'll put your name forward for it next year. If you can fit it in. That'd be good though, Gary.

6:59Ian Wright: Did Matt Letizia win it? Matt Letizia. I mean, not win it, but get awarded it. Billy McNeil. But how did they get it? Did they vote for it, the fans? No, no, it's like, so just one... They probably just decide, don't they? I think they have two or three options each year. Someone's got to do it. Maybe not everybody can get there. Maldini's got it. I think Totti, Billy McIntyre. And they all turned up, right? Yeah. Has anyone not turned up?

7:22Gary Neville: It's a special club, that one. When you think of the values of that club, it's incredible. It's owned by the fans, is it? Yeah, but I think that's normal for Spain, isn't it? Or like the members or something.

7:33Ian Wright: It's brilliant that a club has taken that on themselves. That's amazing.

7:37Gary Neville: Is anybody going to do it, though, now? Do you know what I mean? You can't imagine one player staying, can you? the same club no no that's not there will be some there will be some and you know what that was one of the reasons why I was probably disappointed with Trent moving to Madrid because I was thinking that's he could get that award one day not the award but you know playing for one club but what I would say is the only thing that I think is close and it's not that close but I think it is is what Man United have got where you've got that thing of a youth player I think that's amazing it is in every squad yeah what is it?

8:10it's been called United yeah Yeah, well, you know.

8:13Gary Neville: It's like 80, 90 years or something, like post-war maybe, they've had a youth team player, academy player in the matchday squad. Yeah, the team or the bench. I never knew that. That's brilliant. Yeah, really good. But the thing about, and it's really funny, because here we say, you think Athletic Bilbao, don't you? But it's like almost if you say that over there, it's like the worst thing you can say. So when you're doing all the speaking to people and doing the interviews, it's like, do not say that, do not. that's like the Cardinals it's Athletic Club it's something to do with Franco years ago changed it to Bilbao and then when he changed it back it's almost like it's a sin it's a sin it's like Sheffield United

8:51Ian Wright: if you don't say Sheffield United or Notts Forrest if you say Notts Forrest it's good no but it was good thank you well well done well done brilliant

8:59Gary Neville: and Ousmane Dambele won Ballon d 'Or yeah yeah

9:03Ian Wright: rightly so as well I think you know what's good with him is him going from that one Everybody thought, this is the wonder kid. He's going to be the one. And he moved off to Barcelona. It didn't work out all the injuries and everything. And for him to go there, through the injuries, Barcelona, all the moves, get himself to Paris and then get to the mountain. So you have to say, brilliant on his part. Yeah, but he had a lot of injuries, right? Because he was a good pro, wasn't he? Well, the thing is, they tell you. He said that himself, hadn't he? Yeah, but the thing is that to go through that, you know, recognise that himself.

9:31Ian Wright: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bring yourself back, get yourself to the levels. Brilliant. Yeah, and that's what you want with that cup, winning something of that stature. I knew a fitness coach at Barcelona who was there and he said it was one of the worst pros he's ever worked with. Really? He's come true at all and he was a bit younger and then he settled on and got married. Even better. But he's one of them players, Roy. You know when you feel like, we all judge players, don't we, when you watch them and he's one of them people who sort of, people say he's a good player and I've watched it and I've just absolutely never, when he was playing for France, when he was playing for Barcelona and it probably just shows you, you know, someone can turn it around.

10:06We have this sort of idea now if someone's a great young player you know they don't have bumps in the road or ups and downs and I could never see it but even when people would say it to you I'd be watching thinking because him and Coutinho were probably seen as the two guys who almost put Barcelona where they are financially you know with the Neymar when he all went on I think Dembele they massively overpaid for both players and he just knows that and they're probably still recovering in some ways you know for the two of them now but you know if you want to get to that level it's a reminder you do have to do the other bits off off the field, don't you?

10:38You know, diet, apparently eating better, looking after his body, of course, and you can play more matches and all your stats go through the roof than if you've got talent. But these ideas where we talk about young, brilliant English players, whatever it might be, or Irish players, you do, Ronaldo doesn't, you do have to make them sacrifices off the pitch. If you're gallivanting away from football, you will not get there. You will not get there.

10:59Gary Neville: Definitely not the way the game is now.

11:01Ian Wright: Watching him against us in the Champions League, because everybody's thinking he's going to be on on the wing, he's going to come in off it. But he was playing 10. And we, for some reason, I don't know why we started so negatively in that game at home. But we couldn't deal with him in that time. He was everywhere, linking, passing, getting the ball, running, passing. We just think he's a great player. He's had a great season. Are you putting him in the bracket as a great player just yet? I think he's had a great season. He's had a great season.

11:27Gary Neville: He's part of a great team as well, which helps massive. Would you not be annoyed if you were Salah? Winning the league last year, the season he had, consistency over many years. and you think of how he's played. But it's funny that I... You'd not be annoyed. Dembele, I think, was sensational. I think he's had an unbelievable season. They've won the Champions League, which is, I think, worthy win. If you were Sally...

11:47Ian Wright: I think you're always going to find a player. Whoever they choose, you're going to find a player who will be disappointed about not being involved.

11:54Gary Neville: But he keeps knocking on the door, doesn't he? I know, but we just chat a few weeks ago, but how can you be annoyed when you don't win an individual award? I know we've had discussions about... I don't mean annoyed. You think he would be sat there at home thinking, I wonder why that's not me. Forget annoyed. I think I go back to something I said about Salah and it obviously caused a big storm at the time about the African Cup of Nations but I do feel that whether we like it or not the biggest trophies play a part so normally around a World Cup or a Euro year whoever's the player of the tournament more often than not would probably get the trophy I think the Champions League does play a big part I think if Liverpool beat Paris Saint-Germain in that game he probably gets it Liverpool maybe get to the set, maybe win it who knows, he probably gets it you know in some ways I do think the Champions League That must come into the game Do you think you have to win the Champions League to get it then?

12:38Gary Neville: Do you think? I don't think you have to. You have to, but I think if you're competing with someone who has, you win it. It must help. Just gives them the edge. It was interesting in the women's one because Bon Matty got it again.

12:50Ian Wright: Couldn't believe it.

12:50Gary Neville: I think Alessia Russo obviously had a great team.

12:53Ian Wright: The other thing with it is, Roy, with Bon Matty, and no one's disputing how great she is, but the season, what Caldente had, not just because of Arsenal, even Alessia Russo. You know, winning the golden boot. I know there's only a few goals, but winning the Champions League, winning the Euros. You know what was really embarrassing about that, what I found for Bon Matty, is that she had the trophy and they had pictures of her, like videos of her, losing the Champions League, losing the Euros. And you've got players like Caldante, who, you know, she won everything. She won the Player of the Year.

13:24Ian Wright: She won the WSL Player of the Year. She won the Champions League. You know what I mean? She got all the way to the last... You know what? I'm going to say it.

13:32Gary Neville: I'm going to say it. it's a bit, let's be clear, the Ballon d 'Or is a bit of a, it's a bit of an image type thing. Without a shadow of a doubt. And that's in men's, let's just clear it up. So if it's like that, Gary, then I'll ask you, why would you be upset for not winning it? It should be, it's the most prominent individual award. Yeah, but you shouldn't be upset for not winning it if you think it's a, Yeah, but still, Roy,

13:48Ian Wright: it's what it is. So, you know what I mean? Yes, you're not going to take it with a pinch of salt because it's the Ballon d 'Or, but there is a lot going on upstairs where you feel, well, that's not right. how can you honestly look at Bon Matty the season that she's had she hasn't even had a good a season as Pateas no no but I think it's just a safe bet isn't it it's the same what's happened with the men's down the years it's the same what's happened with the men's down the years because even with I'll go with two or three with Thierry Thierry he had 55 he was brilliant 55 in goal involvement he was magnificent and Nadved won it Nadved himself said you know well this should be Thierry and Ries

14:25Gary Neville: But that's Salah now, isn't it, in the last couple of years or so? Surely, I mean...

14:29Ian Wright: Something's going on upstairs, Gal, where the voting, whatever, it's wrong. Because the right person is not getting the trophy. Simple as that. I think a little bit what you're saying about Thierry is a little bit with Salah in that. I understand what you're saying when people say, over the last few years, you know, I think from 2000 to 2005, that five-year period, there's no one who could touch Thierry. And a little bit probably like Salah said the last few years at Liverpool. but it's not voted for over a period it's voted on that seat so you know listen I'm a Liverpool fan I would love to have seen Salah win it almost for what he's done for Liverpool in his career you know African football but Dembele was always going to win it you know we're not surprised that Dembele won it because of you know he's had a great season on the Champions League I think the compliment is he's in the mix once you're in the mix for a few years and he's obviously consistent that's the challenge for these other players who win it can they do it the next two or three years I think it still comes down to the voting system and people know people.

15:28Ian Wright: How can they honestly look at that Bon Matty? I feel embarrassed for her. Every time she looks at the trophy, like I suppose Nedved, look at his Jesse Thierry on Rhys' face. She'll look and see Mariana Caldentis' face, even Lesley Russo. It's not the players' fault. It's not the players' fault, but at the same time, that is one that they've got where they think, well, really could I? Was it the national team coaches? It used to be journalists. Journalists? No, it is journalists. I think the national team coaches and captains... I don't know. That's a different one, isn't it? Yeah. I think it's the journalists.

16:02It is the journalists, I think. I thought it was like a magazine. That was at the very start. That's where it originated from, France football, I think.

16:10Gary Neville: But in the women's game, I don't think there's enough of them people actually watching the full season, because how can you sit here and say, OK, and this is no disrespect to Bonmatty, God, she's an amazing player, but I do think it's just a safe option. Like, how come everybody else can see that there's been people who's probably had a better season? So I do think it has to be different. 100 journalists vote for the Ballon d 'Or. The one that you're talking about must be the FIFA Pro one, which is the players thing, which is the international managers, I think, that vote for that. Do you think Harry Kane should have been higher up?

16:43Gary Neville: Where did he finish in it? Because Cole Palmer finished higher than Harry Kane, didn't he? Was he fifth or something? maybe ace I think or something Cole Palmer had the better season the year before didn't he probably because again we talk about the big trophies whether we like it or not the World Club Championship he's probably the star player of the tournament he's brilliant in the final let's do Harry Kane now because that came up I think in Thomas Frank's interview yesterday before the game the Caramall Cup game where there's a buyout at the end of the season you can come back if you're Harry Kane are you coming back at the end of the season who gives all that information by the way it's amazing These snippets come out about the price in his contract.

17:24Gary Neville: Well, does he come back at the end of the season and does he go back to Tottenham? Apparently we have first right. I think they have a pre-emption type thing, but he has to agree to go to Tottenham. Would you go back to Tottenham if you're a kid or would you choose another? Would he want to see how Spurs are doing this year under the new manager? Is he coming back just to break the record? Is he happy in Bayern? If Bayern win the Champions League, does he want to do something again at Bayern? It depends how happy he's over there. Is the record a big thing for me, I reckon? For a striker, right?

17:49I think he'd probably want to come and get him. Come back. Would that be his main reason? I think he'll come back.

17:54Ian Wright: Just for the record. I think he will. Not just for the record. I just think to just finish off there and probably maybe try and see if he can be a part of a team that wins something at Tottenham. Obviously, they've won the Europa. But for him and his legacy to be at Tottenham and maybe win something at the end of it and then go on to maybe get the goals. Because I think even if Harry Kane comes back next season, you know, he's got enough season. he'll break that record I think

18:16Gary Neville: but righty just on this if he comes back he's definitely not going to go to Liverpool if he goes to United there's not guaranteed he's going to win something City have got Haaland and can he go to Arsenal or he can't go to Arsenal and can he go to Chelsea so the two clubs that you look at and think Arsenal Chelsea well he'd be sub for Arsenal wouldn't he they'd be quite defensive but righty from a Tottenham perspective in his upbringing can he actually go to those two clubs Chelsea or Arsenal I mean no he can because he can't go to Arsenal no so he can't go to Arsenal but can he go to Chelsea?

18:46Ian Wright: I don't know. I'd go back to Tottenham if Tottenham wanted me. No, but he wants to win things that you just said at the end of his career. I'm not sure if he wants to win, if he wants to win things with Tottenham. I think he'd want to finish with his club, wouldn't he? He can't see him anywhere but Why would he want to come back and go to win something with Chelsea?

19:04Gary Neville: Chelsea are the club that I can see him having the biggest impact in and shooting most. He's got lots of quick... What, under Thomas Frank though? Thomas Frank will cater for him. No, I think at Chelsea if you look at the team at the moment and you think what's missing they have got a lack of sort of what would be prominence up front and they've got a lot of energy and enthusiasm and potential around it with Palmer and all the rest of them he would be great at Chelsea as a player but can he go to Chelsea because of the rivalry you know what Chelsea

19:25Ian Wright: would have to do they'd have to obviously the goalkeeper situation the defensive situation then you put Harry Kane in I don't think they'd buy sure of that I think he'd want to go

19:33Gary Neville: back to Spurs 60 million though for two seasons three seasons it's a game changer so what would he be then 32 would he be 33 they've wasted more money than that on different players I know but I'm aware of what the model is they buy everyone he's about 21 he doesn't buy anyone you need to buy an older centre back you need to buy an older keeper I don't think they'll be buying a centre forward who's 33, 34 I think for two or three years to plug a gap that they need to fix I think they could do it but if we've got it I'd say they're so

19:56Ian Wright: I'd say they're so I'd give them six weeks Hang on a minute are you jumping in with a hassle about defensive I'm just kind of jumping to it where defensive it started with you right to be fair you mentioned the PSG game I was going to jump in myself I know I let him off with that I let him off as well

20:12Gary Neville: we all let you off

20:14Ian Wright: We didn't go for them. That's what I said. We didn't go for them in that. That's the problem, isn't it?

20:18Gary Neville: I mean, just before you go to that, righty, there was a moment, Jill, I know you wanted to talk about that happened in the women's game earlier on the week, a coach, that I think you... Yeah, Matt Beard. So, yeah, so sad. I think Matt did so much for the women's game. I think every time... I didn't get a play for him, but such a great guy, obviously. Worked at West Ham, Chelsea, Liverpool, and I think a time in which the game, there was no money in it, nothing, and he'd give up his job and he put so much time into the women's game. And do you know what? I was looking through some text messages when I'd heard the news that he'd passed away.

20:49Gary Neville: And I think I was looking at all the tributes and every tribute was what a good manager he was, but that he always went above and beyond for the players. I felt like they really had a father figure. And I found this message on my phone and I must have just been at a game. It was Aston Villa v Liverpool and I was just watching and he must have looked up and he was managing and he was like, you look cold. I'm going to send a quote up to you. And I was literally just sitting watching the game, but that was the type of guy he was, just always trying to help people. He said, I'm sorry it's a Liverpool court, but I took it anyway.

21:20Gary Neville: But yeah, just such a great guy and such a loss for the women's game. So thoughts are with his friends and family. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

21:3633 days, 33 episodes, no off switch. From the goals and the glory to the politics and the problems of the World Cup, if you want soccer analysis from a podcast that's been overanalyzing the game for more than 20 years, then this is it. Join me, Max Rushton, and our expert team of soccer journalists every day of the tournament. Can England end 60 years of hurt, or will this be another year of falling just short? Probably. World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts, or watch full episodes on YouTube. Is your cost of home insurance increasing? Get a quote online today with Arizona Home Insurance Company at ArizonaHomeInsurance.com.

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23:18Gary Neville: a little bit defensive against bsg well i'm you elaborate i'm not having the people saying that

23:24Ian Wright: arsenal are defensive or our managers defensive i thought that was pretty pragmatic the other day to start. Right, simple. But like, it's a tough one simply because when you look at what he's done, even 22-23, you know, the most, what did we get, 91 goals in the same season, James, we only conceded 29. So it's not conservative, I think. We've got a centre-half, I mean a centre-half, a midfield player playing up front in Marino, doing well for us last season, scoring the Champions League, you know, ended up getting second. So I don't think that we are defensive in that way. But I think in that particular game, I thought he was too pragmatic.

23:59Ian Wright: this election. I believe, and what happened in the end, what we saw with, and I don't know if it's because we've got the kind of squad now, the squad rotation where he's starting to think too much. I don't know. But what I thought was, and what we saw was, Eze and Martinelli, especially Martinelli in this kind of form, because we'd like to see him be, you know, more consistent continually. Because if he was, it'd be electric and very, very difficult to stop. I thought that he would have given more than Trossard. And I thought that Eze is probably going to give us more, like he said, what we saw in the end than maybe Mourinho in that particular game so in that particular game with the squad we've got yeah you have to say it was very pragmatic from him Right

24:37Gary Neville: he's obviously yesterday being interviewed before the game it's obviously sort of he's a little bit sore on it I think everybody was of the same opinion on Saturday if you could hear the Arsenal fans behind us in the first half or even before the game so if you look at what he said yesterday but if the intention of those comments which are the good ones positive to be better for us not to be so good for us it depends where the comment is coming from that's when I can analyse it so how can you dominate against such a team if you have, what was the word, handbrake which I think I said that in the second half of the game or first half even dominance and handbrake, they are two very different ways so he thinks he's dominated that game I think he's got the handbrake on maybe you think he's got the handbrake on maybe you do, I think you do I don't think 70 ,000 or 60 ,000 Arsenal fans can be wrong in how they feel I don't think any of us that were in that studio or in that stadium or watching at home can be wrong either the big thing for me is the players he names that team on Friday afternoon or let's say Thursday afternoon in training and he leaves out Eze and he leaves out Martinelli and he puts Trossard in and Mourinho I guarantee you that dressing room straight away look at him thinking you've done it the same again you did this at Anfield a little bit old certainly at Anfield he could have been more attacking and he wasn't and certainly again City from the start he couldn't be attacking He could have been more attacking.

25:59Gary Neville: He's going to regret this if he doesn't start to take the handbrake off. I'm going to repeat the comment handbrake because he's got players there that need to play in these games. You can't look back at the end of a season and think, I've lost at Anfield, I've dropped points at home against City, I've dropped five points now in those two matches, and I could have picked a more attacking team. I think there is a problem there that's starting to become a pattern for him.

26:20Ian Wright: I feel like when you look at what we've done at Liverpool, I thought that Erdogan and Eze substitutions were maybe a bit too late. I think he tried the same thing with Bilbao and that worked. And I think he was with a City side that three games on the spin, they've used the same team. I thought that he was going to come out and really have a blast because it looked to me like City. Whatever happens, once they score their goal, they were going to go to the 5-4-1. They look like they've practiced that. And then I'm thinking because they're going to be tired, I thought we should have went at them.

26:51Ian Wright: and then in the end he's going to bring on the two substitutes like he'd done again with Eze and Martinelli. I think that, again, he didn't go for it. He should have went for it. And then, you know, you bring on those players, you bring on Marino, you bring on Ben White, you bring on those kind of people to see the game out. But, like, I think he's just got it wrong at the moment with what he's done there. I just feel. The overthinking, I don't know. I think he's done a brilliant job. This is Spencer Lara, I think for me the best squad of players in the Premier League now. And I don't think this is something that we accuse him of every week.

27:28But it does feel like there's important moments. And he always chooses caution over courage. I'm convinced of it.

27:35Ian Wright: Is that what Pep used to do? Remember Pep's early doors? He used to tinker around with him. Yeah, that may be overthinking. I think this is different. I think he always goes for that side of it in terms of... Were you saying no, Gal?

27:45Gary Neville: No, I'll tell you why I'm saying no. Because Pep's teams were, I think, the best defensively. I think that's back to that first Pep team that won the league. You had Sané, Aguero, Sterling, and he had David Silva and De Bruyne in midfield. And then he had, obviously, Fernandinho behind. So if you've got David Silva and De Bruyne here, and you've got Sané and Sterling, and you've got Aguero, you've got five players there that are really set up to attack. Now, they were brilliant defensively on transition as well. So for me, I don't remember a Ferguson team, a Guardiola team. I remember a Mourinho team at times maybe being a bit.

28:15Gary Neville: Even Mourinho's team, if you think about it, you had Lampard and Essiem running forward, and then he had Robin, Duff, Drogba. I think he picks the most defensive teams he possibly can at times, Mikel Arteta, in big games. Not overly defensive, but I think he could be more attacking. He could dial it up. He picks the power, doesn't he, over creation. You know, you pick Marino. Now, people... The thing that's frustrated me a little bit is the game at Anfield and the game against Man City, some of the things that have been said by maybe yourself or Arsenal fans is right. You go to Anfield and you have Liverpool combatter teams there you haven't you've been in the game and you've lost to a fluke or a free kick but my point being is and you can say the game against Man City and Arteta you can argue was right in that we dominated them the worst possession they've had we forced them to go to back five but does the fortune favour the brave?

29:04I agree Gary all them things are right you can say that there's no doubt about that but it can't get away from the fact that that wasn't Liverpool at Anfield that was Liverpool on the back of conceding two goals in the first three games against inferior opposition. And we've all played in big away games where, OK, Tamfield, you go to anything. If you get through that first half at 0-0, then it's like, then you've got to go again. And they didn't. They had Liverpool to come back again. I think the difference with City was you had to start with that game. The City have played Thursday night. Haven't had a great start to the season.

29:36It was almost like, we'll see how the game goes. We've got our players on the bench to come out. It's a bit like, no, you've got to go for them for the throat. You've got to go right from the start.

29:44Gary Neville: Why was Eze not playing? I don't get why Eze is not playing. The statements you've got to make as a team, and obviously Liverpool haven't won the day before. Liverpool had a European game as well. Remember, Liverpool then are turning up a home to Everton after 30 minutes. So Liverpool are obviously thinking, we start quick. If fatigue kicks in, it'll obviously be later on in the game. But don't start slow. So that was the issue. So Arsenal and Saturday would be, see Liverpool, it's like heavyweight boxers, throwing a big punch. We've won 2-1. Now what are you going to do? and this Arsenal group of players and not just on the manager the players you're going City are home City a few weeks ago gave up kind of a late winner at Brighton just a little bit of softness to them a little bit they're not back to their very best they show glimpses obviously against United and probably Napoli who were down to 10 men so this was Arsenal chance to say Liverpool would be sitting home on the Sunday all the players and the manager going let's see how they react to it and they're getting a draw and they're almost relieved and going you'd be sitting home going they've not made they've not punched us back they've not made a statement to say like we were there we'd done it for years a team would win before you or the day after before you go let's put the pressure on us but Arsenal's reaction to Liverpool winning on Saturday 2-1 even if it was maybe a struggle at the end but they've won the game against Everton on paper it's a darn big game this could be tricky and then Arsenal whatever the selections which wasn't great it's the way they started the game the keeper I think they took 40 minutes before the keeper made a save I know there was corners coming in on top of him but again Liverpool would be looking at Arsenal going is that it is that what you're coming back with Liverpool win that game, really.

31:13That's the next one, yeah. So it was more the mindset that I'd be looking at going, really, Arsene, are you really... That's on the manager, isn't it?

31:22Ian Wright: That's on the manager and his mindset, I think. So it's something that he's probably going to have to think deeply about and what he's done there simply because I genuinely thought that... I didn't think that them two weren't going to start because I thought we should have gone for them. And his challenge, right? We have to win all the home games. But his challenge isn't Man City, his challenge is Liverpool. So you're looking at Liverpool. there's not to be fighting sorry if Man City going City it's not like City two or three years ago coming to town where you're going listen Annie Gaps they'll rip us apart you're going City are there City have already lost a couple of league matches they were there for like at least at least test the goalkeeper at least test their back forward after half an hour you're like you remember going to Liverpool or United when they were a really good team you're going fucking hell we haven't got a breather here I bet you City were going it's not so bad what about

32:04Gary Neville: Haaland though like the goal to start that move and then run through he was like an NFL player that's counter-attack that's counter-attack they've done it against they've done it Wolves earlier this season his second goal or third goal his second goal against United that's from the halfway line it's all counter-attack stuff sorry you've got his comments there I saw something on my phone this morning I thought it was interesting I don't know if you saw it right he was going through the team of how attacking they are so they've obviously been asking the press conference and he started with the goalkeeper he said we've got the most attacking goalkeeper in the league then he mentioned about his full-backs and I thought that's not right because his full-backs are centre-backs I played in the back 400 Gerrard Hull it was four centre-backs that's not far away where Arsenal have got he then mentioned having Zubimendi okay a creative player in the number six I think he then mentioned I think he was talking about Madwecki saying he played centre-forward last season he was talking about a wide player playing centre-forward he was trying to almost argue against it but it wasn't really making that much sense Are you saying he's done what is he on about it wasn't yeah it wasn't really making that much sense and I thought I can understand him defending himself.

33:11He was talking about not listening to the pundits. And listen, 100%, you've got to be focused, the Arsenal manager. Don't let messages get in. But I thought, I hope he's not doubling down on what he said there to maybe his coaching staff and the players. Because what he was actually saying, I'm not quite sure, sort of stacked up and sort of saying, we are a really offensive team because the team's there in front of you.

33:31Gary Neville: But I think when the weight of opinion from whether it be the media, pundits your home fans everybody is saying the same thing they're on to something and I think there's no one shouting around this table here today because actually I think you said Arsenal would win the league I said Arsenal would win the league I think you said Arsenal would win the league you may have said Chelsea I said Chelsea and you said Liverpool but three of us around this table said Arsenal would win the league we're not actually to be fair we're not anti-Arsenal here we're actually wanting them to step up we're actually saying we think these can step up this team I think the squad should be and I'm still waiting for that moment where I think right they've stepped up they've got there and I do think they've got the reins on I do feel and do you know something it reminds me of a situation at Salford a few years ago I'm not naming the particular manager but it always feels like to me the team that I think should be playing comes on when they score finishes so when they score and we go 1-0 down the team that you think you should start with comes onto the pitch and that's what happened on Saturday so they go 1-0 down they're poor for the first half at half time the acceptance of him being wrong is that he changed at half time them two people if he thought he was right he'd have stayed with his team now obviously Madweke may have been injured but you know what I mean the essence of what he was trying to do if he really believed in it he wouldn't have changed it he knew he had to change it so if you change it when you're 1-0 down I think the Klops and the Ferguson's the Pep's they pick those teams at 0-0 at the start of the game they don't wait until you go 1-0 down they pick that team straight away and Mikel just there's something look I think he's done a great job as well and I think he should have won the league at least one or twice in the last two or three years.

35:04Gary Neville: They should have got over the line. And no one's shouting around this table saying, Arsenal this, Arsenal that. We're actually saying we're a bit concerned. But you won't get over the line when you draw 14 league games. Yeah, I think we're a bit concerned about our predictions. I'd say I'm concerned about my prediction already. Not to change. You don't change your predictions. But you don't change your predictions. You have to ask them with a title. You can in September, surely. I'm worried about my prediction now because I'm seeing the same patterns from last season.

35:29Ian Wright: I didn't expect to feel a little bit apprehensive like I do now and that's just on his selection for this game. With the games coming up as well, I think he's just got to, like you say, he's just got to let it go and trust the guys to get it done now because I'm not sure what more there is to do in respect to the size of the squad he's got, the quality of the squad he's got. I don't know, like I say, you can look at the players he's got maybe before that City game and I don't know what scenario where Eze and Martinelli is not playing. So that's a massive worry for me. and if he's going to change in that respect and not maybe feel like he's trying to defend against a Manchester City side that have played so many games, the three of them, the same team three consecutive times, you've got to go for that team.

36:15Ian Wright: And then if we are winning, and I think them scoring early, like they did City kind of set it up for them even to drop into that, but if we are winning and then you want to hold on to it, then you bring on those players.

36:24Gary Neville: So Pep on Friday says that Rodri might not play because he's got to play three games a week. it's the first time that he'll have done it. Who do you think Rodri would have wanted to play against in that game? Who do you think he would have wanted in that game against him? He would have wanted Mourinho. He wouldn't have wanted Eze. He wouldn't have wanted Eze in there going and doing these little things. Same with Kusinov. Kusinov wouldn't have wanted Martinelli in this one. Exactly. Kusinov would not have wanted Martinelli.

36:46Ian Wright: Gee, giving the opposition what they don't want. I'm imagining Rodri... You know, when you look at the team sheet and you think... You know, when you've had those times, when you go there and you're thinking, you know, and then you don't see a certain name on there, a couple of you think, wow.

36:58Gary Neville: But righty, just that.

37:00Ian Wright: With Kustov can't attack, you've got free hit to play the most attacking left winger. But say that, the manager's entitled to come out and defend himself as well. Even if he doesn't agree with it, he's not going to sit back and take it, especially if he thinks it's from punters or ex-players. So he's going to come out and fight his corner. And ultimately, he will pay the price if he doesn't change his mindset a little bit. So we're predicting Arsenal to win the league this year. Would you stand by that now, Roy? I probably will do, obviously.

37:23Gary Neville: Obviously, you'll stand by it. You have to. I'd like to win Liverpool now. But I still think if Liverpool get one or two injured centre-halves, things could still have a dip for Liverpool, no doubt about it. But we're going with Arsenal. I'm going with Arsenal. But what's the evidence over the last few years why we've gone with Arsenal? Because they've come up short a number of times. Well, this squad this time. That's why... No, I agree. Yeah, but if we all think the squad is stronger, then the manager has to tweak something. That's why I didn't go for Arsenal, though. I don't think... And you went for Chelsea.

37:56Gary Neville: I just wanted to go against you guys. The mentality, there's something like, why is he not going into that game high on belief? Obviously, you beat them at home last season. I'm like, why are you not going for it? There's just something where I'm like, there's a mentality where, can they go and win that league? I'm waiting for Arteta as well. Even when they've won at United, it's easy to go after your team when they've won. When they've won at United, we all said, they didn't create that much. Obviously, it was a mistake by United. I was even then, I was hoping he'd put a marker down after that game going, and, listen, that won't be good enough to win league titles.

38:26But he never quite goes after the team. I know they're trying to keep players on site. Even the other day, you're proud of getting a draw in the last minute against the Man City team who weren't at their best. Where's your level of expectation with your group of players? I'm going to look at them.

38:39Ian Wright: He's going to get it right because he's got the player. That's why I will not change. I won't change, obviously, but it's going to be down to him now because I think he's got the pieces. It almost feels like it's down to set pieces if they can win the league. They've got the best defence. They'll end up with the best, you know, most clean sheet. They have the way they're set up. And it almost feels like if the set pieces work, they might have half a chance. If they don't, they've got no chance. They don't create a chance in a game. They don't create a chance at Anfield. They don't create a chance against Man City.

39:07The goal's a brilliant goal from Martin. It's a great finish. Old Trafford, they score from a set piece. They don't create a chance. But again, I'll ask you, Jim, so where's the evidence we have to look at ourselves? Why are we saying Arsenal can win the league when there's all these reasons they don't create enough.

39:20Gary Neville: I think we thought Eze, Xocherez and Zubimendi, I thought, would make a difference that would just give them that extra few percent. That's what I thought. That's what I thought as well. And obviously, that's what I was thinking. They've got a better squad, but if their mentality is when they're playing Man City at home after the back of Liverpool with a marker down, they'd be a bit hesitant. I didn't think they'd do that. Instead of, let's go after them. Look, if the manager obviously is a young manager and that's the reason I think I want him to win the league because to break into that sort of Premier League title winning, group of managers, it takes, I think, a lot of experience.

39:50Gary Neville: If he doesn't get there this season, is he going to be in trouble?

39:54Ian Wright: It's not even a case of is he going to be in trouble. I think that when you look at what he's got now, Gal, then you have to look at it. But the fact is, it's the difficult last step, isn't it? Because these questions will continue to be asked and thrown at him as long as he doesn't do it.

40:08Gary Neville: Will the players be asking those questions of him at the moment in terms of the team? Can I be honest?

40:12Ian Wright: I don't think they'll be asking, but like you mentioned earlier, and I think it's right, because I've seen sometimes when things have happened where you set up with a certain team and then on Saturday it's a different team and then when you're going you're a bit like he's not playing. I've been in Dresden where that's happened and I feel that that might have happened on Sunday. I feel that that might have happened.

40:31Gary Neville: You think the players might have looked at that team and thought, hmm.

40:33Ian Wright: No, because there's players they might have been expecting to play because let's face it, Trossard scored in that game. So did Martinelli. Martinelli's goal is one, what you're thinking you probably might score against the City rather than the Trossard. so you're thinking if anyone's going to play off of the back of that game it would have been Martinelli so I wasn't even thinking about him not starting so when he weren't starting and Eze weren't starting I was like well I don't know the manager must have a reason and then when we started like I think you mentioned it Gary that's 45 minutes wasted for us which I had to agree with you have to think well I'm going to have to I'm going to have to jump I'm going to have to jump on your back and just go with this ride bro but this is my side first and foremost let's not be beaten instead of having this This is something that...

41:17Liverpool manager at the moment, Mourinho on his prime, Ferguson, Pep, obviously. Their mindset was, let's go and win this game

41:25Gary Neville: and we'd flex our muscles. Whereas, no, you still see it out and you're going, there is, your eyes don't light here. You're still looking good at it. That's the important point, right? I think I said on Sunday, stop listening to what he says and look at what he does. Yeah. Because what he does is definitely just roll back a little bit and pull back. Where do you think that is from? would you think I don't know because I think I always go sorry interrupting guys I always go back to remember the first year you went for the league it was a bit unexpected wasn't it Arsenal you know they had Jay Zusson's Inchenko and that was a really technical team Inchenko was going into midfield obviously had Jacques but I think that's something you signed and he didn't do that well was at the Ladviera the Spanish midfield so you were buying technical players and you just got absolutely monstered by Manchester City towards the end of that season you went to Man City and got absolutely he just ran over and Peppers at the time probably playing four centre backs himself all big lads at the back and it just feels like ever since then every player he's bought is like six foot three you know it's just like a completely different sort of physical specimen than what he was doing in the first couple of years and listen whether he's thinking that's the way we're not going to win the league by being the best footballing team because that's Man City no one can take them on in that we're going to try and do it another way because it feels like there has been a big shift from that two or three years ago to having the team with the best set piece-wise, best defensively.

42:46Don't create too much.

42:47Ian Wright: I remember a few years ago, Jamie, he said that I want to be the best transition, I want to be the best defensive. He's not far off of that. Oh, so close. He's not far off of that with what he's got now. It will come down to his selection now. Because I think the only thing that he got wrong, his selection of what he's done, and then just go out and go and do it, guys. Trust the guys.

43:05Gary Neville: Do you think that's a bit reactive, though? Like, Trossard scores and then he gets a start. Like, I think the good managers allow players to come on, score. Think about back in your day, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer would come on score. It wouldn't mean he'd then start the next game. Do you think sometimes it's a bit... I think he trusts Trossard. I think he's got that trust of him. He's that reliable soldier for him that he knows he'll play the position well. I think there's an element of that with him. I think he likes... But do you have to break something sometimes to make it better? I've got no doubts.

43:35Gary Neville: I think he should have played as Ian Martinelli. Why did he bring Isaiah to the club? For them type of games. It's a big game. almost a must-win game after Liverpool winning, and then when he's on the bench, yeah. At home. It'd be interesting what he does. It'd be interesting what he does next Sunday.

43:50Ian Wright: At Newcastle, yeah. Do you think when you, you's lads now, and I don't know what happened the first time United won the tight, but I'm just going back to Liverpool the last five years, you'd almost feel like if you're the team who were used to winning leagues, it's not the end of the world if someone gets ahead of you. It's like, OK, we've been experienced, we've got a long way to go. But if you win in your first league, you feel like you need to get out the blocks. I'm thinking of Liverpool coming up against City you know Liverpool last season with Slott they're out and they're gone it just feels like you're arsed and it's like there's a long way to go but that's the thing with it five points you're thinking oh you need to be the team who's five points clear I remember when I was there I think it was last season start last season with a pre-season I was in and around and I was just saying you have to start the season how you'd want to finish it and you'd obviously want to finish the season by winning it you have to start the season as if it's towards you're at the end because because the points you get now it's like Liverpool the points you get now is what's going to give you that like remember those those pace setters you used to run and then the pace would drop off you need to fucking be the pace setter and then fucking keep but you're right on five points I'd still rather be five points clear than chasing somebody for five points no I understand what I mean but I almost think if you've already won the league it's like okay we've won the league before anyway you still want to win at that seen, but with Arsenal because they haven't won it.

45:12They don't know how to fucking start like that. They've got to start wanting to win. Everything intense. I think it's fine now, Jamie, and I think their energy levels will be still above, obviously, five league games, but I just think over the next few weeks, if that becomes seven or eight, then you're almost saying that this early in the season with Liverpool and the attackers that have, and we keep saying Liverpool are bringing the short goals. They're giving away a few chances, of course. You think there's no catching them. You have to start the season now you're finished. I think the mentality should have been even if it's Anfield we've got to go and win we're going to try and win the first 10 games

45:42Ian Wright: yeah absolutely

45:44Gary Neville: this episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing just a quick touch on City I think we were probably a couple of minutes away from offering them great praise because it was such a departure from City's style it was like the most incredible thing that I've ever seen Pep Guardiola's team do but when they scored then Arsenal it almost made you feel like oh what was that Pep's like Pep's like They've got them putting 10 behind the ball, taking Haaland off, which I thought was strange at the time, to be fair. Yeah. They had no outlet now. That was the problem. I think it's great for any team to sit in.

46:16It's great, but you need somebody with a bit of pace, somebody to get off the pitch. We were doing the game. There was a goal coming. Just felt it in the stadium. I did. Just felt that pressure. You thought there was a goal coming? I thought there was a goal coming. No, I did. I just thought you can't keep giving away that cheaply, which they were doing. And even for the goal, the way they lost, it was just, we're talking about the levels of Man City here, where they keep it, triangles, and they come back. They weren't doing any of that stuff. They were just almost like a lesser team just kicking up the pitch.

46:41They were hoping, they were hanging in there. And then obviously Eze with a lovely pass and again the defensive. But they got caught out of Brighton as well towards them.

46:47Ian Wright: Even that with Eze, there's no way normally Eze would have that much time with that much space behind to be able to just clip it in like that. And we praise the goalkeeper who done well. The goalkeeper's got to do better for the goal. I felt the goal was coming.

46:59Gary Neville: I was surprised Phil Forden started on the right, especially after the games that he'd had previously from the 10-ball. I was really surprised because I thought Arsenal just pegged him back. And I'm like, he's just had player-of-the-match performances. Like, I don't know why sometimes... But he's only showed glimpses, hasn't he? He's still not back. I know, but I think his last couple of games... I think the couple of games sued him. The United game and even Napoli again, down to 10 men. But do you think he'd have been better central? Possibly so, but I still think there's a long way for Ford to come back.

47:28Gary Neville: What do you think Pep thinks when he gets home? I was thinking about Pep's Sunday night. driving... All right, Gary. I'm thinking about Pep Sunday night. He's someone who basically would die in a ditch over possession and football for the last 15 years and he's literally done something he's never done before. The lowest possession he's ever had, almost, in his life and he's just at the death. Would you think he'd have gone home Sunday night and reflected and thought, where am I at? The identity of him and the genius of him. Do you think there'll be an element of him looking at himself and thinking, what am I doing?

47:58Gary Neville: I've ended up there.

47:58Ian Wright: He's actually made the decision to say he's going to play five. I get it

48:02Gary Neville: and I loved that I like what he did I think it was amazing to watch it was intriguing but then I would think he would be Lev he was one in the upper bright remember they lost that in the second half so maybe he'd be still thinking of them things a bit open towards the end so he's human nature he just had to find a different way to win it and I have no issue with him going back in and being anti-pep but you're going but then they just didn't keep it at all I'm thinking about him Roy in terms of what he said over the years about possession and team full of midfielders and all the things

48:26Ian Wright: you see with him the way he started If that team hadn't played so many games so consecutively, I don't think that's a bad... No, no, no. Can I take you up? No, just quickly, Roy. How many games have they played? It's September. I know it's free, but everybody's going on about how many they've played. He took Haaland off, obviously, to rest him as well. Rest him for what? They've got hundreds of... Let me finish, all right? The only thing, what I'm saying is, if you've got Doku and you've got Haaland, that is a perfect team, perfect forwards to have as transitional forwards. look what they've done look what they've done like you mentioned United against us there when they broke of course you should play like that if it can benefit your team I think we're talking about fatigue we're talking about September we're not talking about Pep one of the greatest managers ever and after the game they were home to United by the way right part of being a footballer so they're not travelling no the most tiring part is travelling isn't it if you have a big European night and you're drained physically mentally you get on a flight you get back three or four in the morning you're in the next they were home to United they beat them comfortably it wasn't like again an emotionally kind of tough game in that sense.

49:28Napoli, the man said, after 20 minutes, I know you still have to break them down. They travelled down to London. This week, I think they've got a cup game, they're home to Huddersfield, they've got Burnley. So if you worry about fatigue and rest them in them matches, I worry about that. So if Pep's vibe during the week with City, he's going, oh, we've travelled all the way to London.

49:48Gary Neville: Right, it's a big one, by the way, they're away at Huddersfield. Is it M6? But if these managers look ahead, only a week or two go down the back of an international break I know that the other lads will be away but I don't get all that with Pep in September but do you think I mean I don't think Pep's gone into the game I think it's just the way the game's happened even in the first half the win them 1-0 and we were saying they couldn't string a pass they couldn't get out their own half and that's credit to Arsenal so it goes back to some of the things Michel Arteta was saying he did completely dominate a Pep Guardiola team but I think he's ended up for nothing and this is the only chance we've got of getting something from the game in terms of being really negative they couldn't keep the ball But you know what, you've made a point, he's made a point, Arsenal said, we've dominated a Man City team.

50:33Man City's not our challenge, it's Liverpool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they have to beat Man City, Liverpool's their challenge. So getting obsessed with Pep and Man City, I'd be going, no, listen, do you have to try and beat? It's Liverpool is your challenge, not them.

50:45Gary Neville: Do you think Pep takes a point, like, beforehand, though? Do you think when you're saying about him going home, like, does he think... No, but before the game, he would have took a point away. Yeah, because they're over the busy week. So I don't know if he maybe justifies it with that. Make the point about Pep as well. Man City, when Man City win the league, what annoys you every year when Man City win the league? What do they do after the match? The parade. There's hundreds of staff. Hundreds of staff drinking champagne, all spraying each other, doing fucking dances. Hundreds of staff. So Pep, you've got hundreds of staff, so can they help you deal with their fatigue?

51:18So if you win the league next year, whenever they win it, don't get a hundred fucking staff on the pitch celebrating. Fucking hell, you complain about that all the time. fucking hell

51:30Gary Neville: baby I've got hundreds I know you every year when they win the league honestly literally there is a tunnel of about 30-40 people on each side comes out and they've got more masseurs sports scientists they've got literally big staff which is why they've been unbelievable for 10 years by the way but I have to say I must admit the fatigue thing I'm not buying into in September either And I'm not banged. One thing I would say is they did have that World Club Championship, which I think, to be fair, it bites at them a little bit, and he obviously asked for the delay to the season, or he asked for a couple of games.

52:03Gary Neville: He's got a front-end consideration. He's probably... You have to. You are right, though, about the staff. I was watching the Liverpool-Southampton game last night, and I think after Southampton score, there's just five staff just looking at monitors, and nobody's even going to the players like, come on, next one, let's get back. They're just all... The goal goes in, and just five of them, including the manager, looking at a monitor. I'm like, the game's gone mad. Do you think Arna Slott actually wanted to pin Eketike up when he... Oh, that annoyed me. I was like, oh my God, he took his shirt off.

52:34Gary Neville: What was he doing? I put a message. I couldn't believe it. I put a message in the group going, it's not the Champions League. And he said that after his... Like, I could not believe he did it. Why would he... Oh, I couldn't believe it, right? He's been booked for something stupid by throwing the ball down. Fair enough. We've all been sent off stupidly around this table. But then taking your shirt off... You've been booked with McManaman. I know I said that, But what I'm saying to you is I was pinned up in the dressing room. Can I just say... I had those consequences.

53:02Ian Wright: You've got to understand with all the ISAC talk... Oh, easy on him. Yeah, mate. All the ISAC talk, the fact that he's coming... Are you not frustrated by it? I haven't seen it, but I've... Sorry, right here, but I've seen the reaction. You're bladded, weren't you? No!

53:17I've seen Slott's interview. I think Slott's thinking of the next game, I'm thinking, I've only got Isaac and he can't play 90 minutes. I think he's already thinking of, like, we've got no backup striker.

53:28Ian Wright: You know the thing with it, James, is that you've got to understand from Eka TK's point of view how much pressure he's been under to come in while Isaac is, like, the fucking shadow over him, a cloud. And he's started brilliantly. He's just a young guy who's just got excited. No, but the same.

53:44Gary Neville: He said he's forgot about the yellow. You're right, I won't get frustrated. With the Hacienda one. No, but somebody said he must have forgot he got his yellow card. I'm like, Frimpong remembered he got a yellow card. How can he not remember himself? He's just a young guy.

54:00Ian Wright: He's just living it, man. He's just on cloud life. This could be a sliding door moment. If you're going to beat him up, use a feather.

54:09Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. Right, OK, we're going to move on to relegation. Right. So Unai Emery, manager, I think we all admire, a team that last season we absolutely all admired, I think in the top five this year. We have to look at our identity. We're useless. We're so bad. We are so bad. We have to look for our identity. I'm frustrated and disappointed at how we played, at how we are not playing, feeling comfortable with our style. We were lazy sometimes, lazy. Love it. The goal we conceded was lazy. Love it, dead right. Do you know something? I think he's absolutely right.

54:46Gary Neville: When you watch Villa, they were driving me crazy on Sunday. I thought, there's some players in that dressing room, they're all happy with themselves, aren't they? What I mean by that is they're all a bit walking around, a little bit like... Can we name a few, Gary? Can we name a few? Don't name... No, don't name. A feeling, Roy. A feeling that just a few players in that team, they've obviously done well last year, they're sort of having themselves a little bit.

55:06Ian Wright: Maybe, and that's the difference when you... That's the difference when a team that's used to...

55:10Gary Neville: That team that just stepped off the gas a little bit, not quite doing the stretching, not quite doing the massage... You can hear it in his words, can't you? Yeah, not quite doing... When a manager says something like that, and he's a professional manager and he gets consistency performance everywhere he goes, he's spotted a feeling in that dressing room that's gone like... A dip. Yeah, they're having themselves. Gary, that was the first game I've seen of Aston Villa for a while. Obviously, I was pleased with the performance because they were playing Sunderland, but I could not believe it. Like, not getting up to the ball, not tracking back.

55:39Gary Neville: I was like, is this a different team? Then the Sunderland go down to 10. But there are certain players, remember... That was a sending off. There's certain players at a certain level. So the players, we could name them. I could name five or six of them who were out of us. Yeah, they've got the spots. You know what I mean? They have them traits in them. They'll have a good year or two. They get a new deal and the club might do well for Villa last year, Europe and all this carry on. And then when it drops off, they just go back to type. I could name six of them. I'll tell you when the cameras are off.

56:04See, the goal that was given away, like such bad defending. My goodness. You wonder what's happened.

56:10Ian Wright: The camera never gets switched off there. We'll follow you all. I just wonder, Jane, with a manager like that where it drops off, is something happened up to the... Because remember, he's lost Aaron Ramsey. Something's happened because his energy has changed as well. The players... The Sputum director's just... Something's happened. Something's happened with Villa where it's kind of like... Yeah, but that shouldn't affect the players, though, right? I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying, Graham. You still have to do... It can affect the dynamics, but when you still go out in a match and Sunderland...

56:33Well, give credit to Sunderland. They did a lot of energy. Oh, brilliant. Strong and went to the game. They didn't kind of try and hang in there too much. If anything, you thought they were going to win it. but the Villa players still and again there's five or six of them you look and go they've had these traits for years

56:47Gary Neville: when you watched them last year they were so tight so compact so sharp everything was like it was brilliant to watch them but they can't keep it up Gary that's the difference between really top players that's why we praise here players every week I love players who are consistent for 10, 12, 15 years it's the consistency but you see these lads we've seen loads of them they have a good year or two and then they just can't keep it up just to get back to being lazy that's what it is nine of the start and eleven played under Stevie Gennar were not sort of the new manager's players so they've gone back to them so the guy who's left I think it was 9 out of the 11 at the weekend and the guy called Montu was like this sort of transfer guru from Seville but it hasn't worked he hasn't done well enough at all you think of some of the players they bought at 9 it was 50 million they bought a left back in for about 40 million hardly plays Mattson Mattson Ian Marlon is it the winger they bought from Dortmund coming for I don't know 20-30 million he missed a good chance last week the big signings they've made have just not done it at all

57:40Ian Wright: I don't know what's happened with Oli Watkins as well.

57:44Gary Neville: He missed a big chance at the end. Header. That header. I don't know what's happened. That was a big chance. I do like Oli Watkins, but there was a few chances.

57:52Ian Wright: Yeah, but people say that a lot. I do like, I don't care if you like him. You know the thing with it is, people say, you know what, I like him. But you know what? The fact is, is that what's happened to him, even before the Euros... Do you like him? As a player, I think that he should be doing more for what he's capable of doing. He's a channel runner, gets in the box, he gets on the end of things. I think he could be a lot sharper if he's finishing. And I thought that that's what he'd be working on. Just like the one-touch finish or the touch-finish both sides. Those are the things that when you get to the level where you score goals in semi-final Euros, those are the things you work on now for getting the chance to stay in the width of the 18-yard box and taking your chance.

58:33Ian Wright: And he just doesn't do that. He doesn't do it enough.

58:36Gary Neville: Joseph, I'm surprised. That's big criticism from you because you are obviously, I think, qualified. Only because I believe that he's got, you know, when you watched him at Brentford,

58:44Ian Wright: even when he first went to, his work rate and you think, right, he's got all that, that's brilliant. Just work on the first touch in the box finish, near post finish, whatever your finish, left foot finish, that's what he should be working on. But like you watch him and he still looks like a player that is, was that the Euros before?

59:03Gary Neville: How hard is it though when you're not getting a lot of them chances in a game? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but the thing is that,

59:08Ian Wright: as a striker, when you play games, you don't get chances, but what you're doing is you're waiting for it. That was a big one last week, wasn't it? Massive, massive, massive chance. That's the kind of chance. Sometimes you're playing and you think, we're not even creating hardly anything, so half chances I've got to be ready for. So you're kind of like staying sprung, ready for the half chance, and all you're thinking is, I'm going to make sure I hit the target clean and really go for the side here. I'm going to really do something positive because once you do that, it kind of spins you out of like a negativity.

59:40Ian Wright: You go into positivity. People know that if I get half a chance, I'm scoring. That's what I wanted to make people understand with me. Sometimes you don't get a chance in the game. You get half a chance. You finish half of the game and think that was the chance because you'll always get one. So you should be, I mean, it was Chris Waddell. Chris Waddell, 1987, he told me the difference between the second division strikers and the first division is that they recognise how to take an half chance. so when you go back to training stop taking an extra touch just because you can because he's not good enough to get you take that chance as soon as you can those are the things that he should have been working on so you go to that next level of striking because you look at him now and you think to yourself you know what are you doing he's not improved does he no and that's got to be on the individual so

1:00:25Gary Neville: is it too late I don't know because Arsenal were looking at him at one point they bid for him didn't they well you know he did a bit for him is it a bit of that has he had one eye on maybe a move he probably wanted to go didn't he yeah West Ham hmm hmm Graham Potter's obviously having a tough time. The protests obviously against the ownership. I hope every manager keeps a job because it's a nightmare when they lose the jobs. But I was expecting on Sunday or Monday, I wouldn't have been surprised at all breaking news. I was expecting it. I don't know why. This early, I think. I just felt as though, yeah, I was expecting it.

1:01:02It's not early because it's Graham Potter's whole time there since he came in. hasn't been great it's not just the start of the season I think there might be I think most people are probably thinking that he could lose his job on the back of you know it was Christoparlas at home wasn't it and I think the next two games are away at Everton and then is it Arsenal yes so the tough two tough games if you're a new manager and then the international I'd be very surprised if Graeme Possess is the manager after the next two games in fact I just can't you think

1:01:35Gary Neville: it's that all calculated what they normally do though Jamie is normally they would remove the manager normally what they would do is remove the manager and then put a caretaker in for two weeks and then you wouldn't normally keep someone in it would have happened before that where people have just maybe so you're saying they think they've made the decision and that to the wait for the interview they may not have made it but I would imagine they're pretty close it just doesn't feel like anything's going to get better it's desperate isn't it

1:02:02Ian Wright: and you know every week I'm looking at West Ham I think hopefully he could do it for his sake to get a little bit of momentum.

1:02:07Gary Neville: And if the owners are under pressure also, it's usually the thing that they do to relieve the pressure is change the manager. That's the oldest trick in the book.

1:02:13Ian Wright: When the fans start getting the ticky torches out. It's not look right since he's gone in there, does it? I think it's certain personalities, certain clubs, and it's just doesn't seem a right fit, does it? No.

1:02:24Gary Neville: Brentford, they've got Manchester United 12.30 on Saturday, then they've got Manchester City. They're currently sat in 17th, just one place outside of the relegation places. Keith Andrews, new manager. Interesting take from Martin O 'Neill, who we've had on this show. Keith is not my favourite person because he was very critical of an island. That's obviously a personal thing. The irony is that Brentford are using the long throw, which is not all inventive because it's been around for years. But take my irritants aside, he's a young fellow coming into management. It's a great challenge because he's taken over from a person whose character pervaded the football club.

1:02:59Gary Neville: Is he under pressure, Keith Andrews, already? because if they lose these two games, if United were to beat them or if City were to beat them and they went into the bottom three, for Brentford, that would be a big problem, wouldn't it? Yeah, it would be. Yeah, but they don't look like they're panicked, Brentford, don't they? I think Brentford can be the type of club that can lose a few games. Could you see them beating United and City in the current climate? I think they could carefully get a result against United, yeah. At home to United, I think they're carefully getting a result, yeah. Still early in the season, I don't think Brentford would be panicking.

1:03:29He is a young manager, but he has to be. Were you surprised at the appointment when it happened, right? Well, not really, because he was already in the club. I think he wouldn't have got another premiership job anywhere else. It's just that obviously he was in there. The people obviously must think highly of him. And he's new to the job. And you say, like any young manager, give the man a chance. Was it we're talking about four games? Have they played five? Have they played five? They've played five, yeah. They've played five. They've won one, drawn one, lost three. They got four points. They drew home to Chelsea.

1:03:56Did it beat, who did it beat? Was it Sunderland or home? Did it beat Sunderland? Sunderland and Wade. they played they lost late who did they beat at home I think they've been really close in a couple of games where they just lost it's been difficult enough staff for them but I don't think Brentford ownership would be panicking yet the thing is

1:04:13Gary Neville: somebody's got to be at the bottom of the table everyone's beating Villa it's whenever anybody's down the bottom we're like do they get rid of the manager but the strange thing is they're so tight anyone near the bottom three or four you get that win easier said or done again the points they'll probably get them up to mid table I don't think Brentford would be panic.

1:04:32Ian Wright: I think that the time that Brentford have been there and what it means to them to be here, I think if they stay down there for too much longer, like if you say they might get something at United. After 10 games. A bit longer. I think Thomas Frank had spells where they struggled. I don't know if it was last season or the year before. They struggled to get going for a month or two. You're fancying to get out, especially when they had Visser and Mbwemo there still. You know, Dam's guards. I still think there's enough good players to get out. I think they'll start worrying. Is the worry or is the decision for owners different this season because the promoted teams are doing OK?

1:05:05Well, obviously. I think in the past, they've always thought we'll be all right. We'll be all right. Even at the start of the season, five, they haven't won a game. You know, you're getting to sort of ten games of a season and some of the promoted teams haven't won one game. And you almost think, I think that probably saved a few managers over the last few years where it might go back to the norm where the actual fear... The good thing about the promoted teams, if you look at them, they're all happy to play without the ball. they're not coming up thinking let's play obviously physically bigger players look at all the results recently they're all getting results on the back of the promoter teams they're talking about with less possession so they're not going we need to play I like Sunderland yeah and Sunderland obviously they're not obsessed with possession they're big and strong they have a lot of physicality there

1:05:43Gary Neville: and working hard as well that's what that manager's done a great job even the other day we got a man sent off there's enough there's a nice good factor and energy ideally if you're Sunderland

1:05:54Ian Wright: you get a man sent off it will be at Sunderland because they'll keep you going through. At the moment, yeah. At the moment, yeah.

1:06:00Gary Neville: The one out of the top three, out of the bottom three, sorry, out of the promoted teams that I've liked most. I mean, Leeds and Burnley have done well as well, but I've watched Leeds and Burnley live, watched Leeds on Monday Night Football and then Burnley United. Sunderland has been very good. Sunderland is always good. They've got Xhaka, a bit of experience. I love Xhaka. A bit of energy and they've got quality. It's a great header from Xhaka, the little header back over the floor. He's done it on purpose. Did you see it? Fantastic. Brilliant. Port of Fendon, cushioned it. So he brings you that little bit of experience and that quality.

1:06:26You've got young energy around you. I think they've got a nice balance to their team. Their son of the manager has done a great job there. Well, great job. Talking about experience and quality, Ben.

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1:08:13Gary Neville: Who's the shirt for, Ben? Thank you, Gary. Who's the shirt? Very good question. Who asked for one? Join the Sticks of Football Mini League using the code S6-STF. Each month, the winner will... Fuck me. You laugh at me on my whole streets. You're actually really good. Each month, the winner will win a£100 voucher and a signed Sticks of Football shirt. Wow. Signed by who? I hope we've not agreed to this. We agreed to this. Probably Gary then, isn't it? Yeah.

1:08:45Ian Wright: Of course. Everything's done. Gary does everything. We just jump on.

1:08:49Gary Neville: Actually, it's Adidas, so it's signed by you two. There you go. Hold it up. You got a pen? We'll do it in the green. Can we do it? You need a silver one. Can we do it now? We'll do it now so it's authentic. We need a pen. We need a silver pen. Always think of it. Do we normally fake signatures inside the green? We'll get it on the camera. The retail for 50 pounds. No winner for Super 6 last week, so still a£1 million round.

1:09:09Ian Wright: Come on, guys. We can do it. Okay. Right. Last week's scores, Gary and Jamie, eight. Oh. Eight points. So you're on 80.

1:09:19Gary Neville: We're catching up. Roy, Jill and Ian. Nine. Yes, come on. Shut your mouth, Gary. I got one. Who did I get right? I definitely got... Yes, come on. Brighton, two and... You always want a player with them. When we know what we got right, Ben. Yeah, you got Bournemouth, two, one, Brighton. Yes. I call that one. I call Bournemouth.

1:09:39Ian Wright: I'm always calling it. I was with Adam Smith. I don't care who you were with. The right at Bournemouth was talking to him. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's saying hello to everybody. We don't care who you are. Adam Smith at Bournemouth. He's always fighting. No, but yeah, honestly. He's always fighting people. Chelsea versus Brighton. Gary and Jamie. Adam, we said you're always fighting. Adam, calm down.

1:09:58Gary Neville: How did you not put City to beat United? Chelsea Brighton, Saturday 3pm. Why did you not think City would beat United?

1:10:04Ian Wright: Right, who's first? Gary and Jamie. Chelsea Brighton. Chelsea Brighton. You're great after the result. We're first.

1:10:09Gary Neville: How disappointed were you? Chelsea 2-1.

1:10:12Ian Wright: I know. Rubbish. No, Chelsea have...

1:10:14Gary Neville: Stop calling Chelsea.

1:10:16Ian Wright: Yeah, but honestly, Jill. Thank you, Anna. Just go keep it. Give it to Gary. Oh, I'll do it. Oh, 2-1. Nice one. Thank you. Who's that? Chelsea Brighton. Chelsea Brighton. When's that? Saturday, 3pm.

1:10:29Gary Neville: How are they travelling there? What happened for a pre-match? Did you see Brighton's goals against Bairns today? Oh, they've got a hat-trick in the arbor. Did you see the Brighton's goals? Some of them are magnificent. He's lashing them for about 30 yards. What a goal. Right, we'll go Chelsea win. I don't know. Ian. Come on, concentrate. Sorry, Gary. I think Brighton will get a result. Well, it's all right. You think Brighton will win? I said get a result. Are you listening? That's nice, isn't it? Roy? Roy. OK, 2-2. But I think Chelsea... 2-2? No, no, no, hold on a second. Ian, are you concentrating on this?

1:11:00Gary Neville: I've just given you something... Hold it there, Roy.

1:11:02Ian Wright: Hold it there. Just said about... Jill, come on. I think Brighton are going to beat them. Wow. You are being silly now. No, no, no. You know what? I do fancy Chelsea. That's what you're going to win. No, Brighton are due result. authentic

1:11:13Gary Neville: I fancy do you fancy Chelsea and I do so let's Chelsea

1:11:19Ian Wright: I'd rather go with Brighton Brighton what I'd rather go with Brighton what I've seen you don't watch football yes I do how do you send videos to Strictly come dancing every week every time someone gets a video message and it gets to I'm going it's Jill it could be anybody Jill sending a message

1:11:36Gary Neville: no I didn't actually know that was going on how did Jimmy do on Strictly come dancing no it's this week this Saturday It was good, though. It was just the warm-up stuff. Jimmy, it was good. See, you've been watching it. 2-1 Brighton. Yeah, great. Do you watch it? I do watch football, by the way. Chelsea Brighton. Hold on a second. Well, I think Chelsea, but these are going to go Brighton. I should have my own team. I'm signing the top for ten minutes.

1:11:58Ian Wright: 1-1. What do you think? 1-1. I can't. Brighton will get a result. You think? Let's go 2-1. A result could be a draw. 2-1. 2-1-2. What do you think? Go 2-1 Brighton. You said Brighton. Brighton 2-1. Hey, we're the ops down. We've got to go for it. That's exactly what we're doing. Yes, thanks, Ian. We've got to go for it. Palace, Liverpool, 3pm, Saturday. Palace always causing problems. Liverpool.

1:12:20Gary Neville: Liverpool.

1:12:21Ian Wright: No, Ike TK. 2-1. Get your shirt off. No, he needs a break.

1:12:24Gary Neville: This is a sliding door moment. Yeah, I think, bro. You're not fancy, Jake? You've gone on Liverpool. Yeah, 1-1. No, you've gone 2-1, so what's he? I've made minds with a game, so I don't know if Liverpool wins. He's happy, look. Right. Don't lose. I'm doing the next one. City Burnley, actually, Gary. What was that, Burnley? I'm going to have two claret teams in the division. City Burnley, sorry. Well, that's interesting, that one. City win. I'm going big on this. If they beat United at home... Pep would be sitting in. 4-1. Yeah, 5-4-1's Pep. Pep would be parking the bus. Bronny are doing the same.

1:12:594-0. I was going to go... In the middle, that middle bit.

1:13:02Gary Neville: I was actually going to go 4-0. You can do. No way. 3-1.

1:13:08Ian Wright: No, I wouldn't give them a goal. I'm not sure if I'd give them a... 3-0. Come on, they beat United.

1:13:15Gary Neville: By the way, I can't believe that Donnarumma is 26. I can't believe James Stafford's 6 '6". No, but can you believe he's 26? Who? Donnarumma. He's one year older than Phil Forden. Donnarumma's not 26. He is. He's 26. Yes. Google that, please.

1:13:34Ian Wright: Isn't he 26? He's been in AC Milan, wasn't he? He's one year older than 40 He's 26 until he's 27 I just said I'm doing that

1:13:42Gary Neville: 2-3 years younger than me No, you do Forrest Sunderland

1:13:48Gary Neville: United didn't buy Donnarumma 30 million, he was 26 Yeah Why didn't Chelsea buy him? His wages would have been crazy

1:13:55Ian Wright: Why didn't Chelsea buy him? I can't believe he's 26 It was to do with the monies, wasn't it? It was to do with the money that Piers here not giving that money anymore You said the money? Honestly Honestly, you buy cheap She'd buy twice, she'd buy three times.

1:14:07Gary Neville: They should have gone for it. Forest, Forest, I want to get some energy. Forest Sunderns. I can't see Sundern winning a forest. Saturday 5.30. But you know what? They're playing tonight. I saw a forest fan in the airport. Exactly, in Europe. Nobody said to me. I've seen one forest fan. You're an expert in Spanish football all of a sudden. They're playing real better tonight. Is this out tomorrow? He called up to me and said, are you making your sign? He went, yeah. he said Forrest fans don't like you it's you I think he thought it was you

1:14:42Ian Wright: I couldn't get you two mixed up what are you going with you're going to play tonight he needs a result Jamie do you still think Sunderland are going to get relegated

1:14:51Gary Neville: I like Sunderland Jamie do you think Sunderland are still going to get relegated I think they will yeah you don't change your predictions in September what 2-2 2-2 You're just going against everyone today.

1:15:06Ian Wright: I like it, because I feel like it's up in the air. It's a draw, though. It was a draw. 2-1 for us. Out of the length of Sunday. Overruled. Right.

1:15:15Gary Neville: Overruled. Villa-Fulham. Villa-Fulham. Burnley and Fulham. Here we go. We've got so much to get through. Let's go. Here we go. No, that's Aston Villa. Aston Villa? Villa-Fulham. Villa-Fulham. You can call them lazy. They're going to be out of that. These are going to be out of it. Villa win. No. Villa must bounce. Villa can't go six. I think Fulham is. Yeah, 1-0. They've only scored one goal this season. That's the worst team for the team. That's the worst team for the team. You're not even on straight now over there. I think Fulham, like... 0-0. Fulham, 2-0.

1:15:47Ian Wright: Come on.

1:15:48Gary Neville: Fulham, 2-1.

1:15:50Ian Wright: No, Villam must have... 2-2. Desmond. Let's go Desmond. Desmond, 2-2. Yeah, we've got to do it... I don't agree with any of these scores. Can I do... Sunday, 4.30. Oh! Oh!

1:16:02Gary Neville: Who's up there, by the way? Right, are you going with your hands? I'm up there. Who's up there? Anyone else up there? No. Are you going up in Newcastle? I'm watching American football on Sunday. 1-1. Dublin. Steelers in Dublin. 1-1, I'm going. 1-1. 1-1. Right, I said 1-1.

1:16:16Ian Wright: Oh, no. Wait a minute. I'm just conferring. That means you'll be seven points behind. So, right, so you've gone 1-1, but you've gone Liverpool to win. If that happens, it's over. Can I write my score separately? Can you make a four-offer? Can you, like, just do the show on your underpants? if no we're doing that you know the thing is we have to win it so I'm going to change you never change I have to change I have to go for Arsenal to win Newcastle 2-1

1:16:40Gary Neville: why do you have won come on stay with me here right okay if it's the other way

1:16:45Ian Wright: Newcastle 1-1 love that you liar you were speedo thank you so much well done what happens if I'm wrong

1:16:53Gary Neville: you have to do speedos as well Jill

1:17:02Gary Neville: Right, Harry Kane is on the verge of becoming the quickest to score 100 goals in the Bundesliga. Rank these English strikers. Harry Kane, Alan Shearer, Michael Owen, Wayne Rooney. Oh, so difficult. It's a silly one, isn't it? You know what I mean? All that does is cause problems and arguments. So we have to pick an order, the best. Yeah, I'm going to go Wayne Rooney's number one. Wayne Rooney, yeah. Yeah, Shearer. I class the others as more number nine. Shearer number two? Yeah. No. You're not putting Shearer over Harry Kane?

1:17:35Ian Wright: No. Yeah, I am.

1:17:36Gary Neville: Yeah. I would, and that's a solid plan.

1:17:38Ian Wright: OK, well, let's debate then. Are you doing it on how he plays? He's getting on just the goals and the goals. I just think if they're both, let's say, England's number nine. Can we fix one at Wayne Rooney? Can we fix Wayne Rooney there? Wayne Rooney.

1:17:51Gary Neville: Can we fix Wayne Rooney? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can we fix Michael Owen? He's a great player, Michael, but can we fix him at four? because of injuries Jamie speak so it's Shearer and Kane then no I get it and I think I said this a few days ago but for me I think Kane's English greatest striker now I don't class Wayne when I'm thinking of that I'm thinking of sort of like someone the number nine the goal scorer I class Wayne as more as a great player rather than just the centre forward but I just think a lot of people would say Shearer over Kane but I don't know what the actual it'll just be oh I like him better his numbers are far better at an international level.

1:18:27He's been a top goal scorer at a World Cup. He's gone abroad and absolutely, I mean, he's played for one of the biggest clubs in the world and he's absolutely smashing the records to bits. He's played for a Tottenham who've never been the best team and his record in the Premier League is as good as Shearer's. Yeah, Alan was like that though. Shearer went from Southampton

1:18:44Ian Wright: to what he'd done at Blackburn. I know, but he played for a Newcastle team who almost won the league one season and then he signs the next season. So he's playing for like one of the best teams in the league for two or three years at Newcastle. What about Blackburn with the top two teams

1:18:56Gary Neville: for about three years what about this as a compromise I think for me I would say Shearer's number two and Kane's number three OK but what I'm saying is what's your argument if Kane does look I agree there's not much in it to be fair they're probably similar but there's no argument you're not giving me I think Shearer's the greatest goal scorer in Premier League history and I think if Kane comes back but if Kane would have stayed do you get it I know and Kane could come back and do that and we might be talking in two three years where we say Kane is above Shearer So Kane's got to come back and beat him in the Premier League goal scorer for Kane to go ball.

1:19:27Gary Neville: I just think sometimes, yeah, I just think Alan Shearer, look, I think both of them are amazing. Both of them, to be fair, so similar in terms of personality, character, you know, just performance levels, consistency, strength, mental strength, everything. They've got everything, those two, as football players, everything. There is no weakness in those two. They're that flawless. I also think Kane, I feel like I'm criticising Shearer, but he can almost play that you're like a better footballer in terms of Shearer was always the number nine and I get it it was amazing

1:19:58Ian Wright: I remember Ari's come at a different time in the way that strikers play as well Kane the way he said there was a spell I think in the Premier League was Kane was arguably the best passer of the ball on the Premier League was passing but he said she was crossing she was crossing

1:20:10Gary Neville: was unbelievable right you finally made an argument you've made a debate she was crossing I think she was the style of play that she was playing and he's got a tattoo have you got a tattoo

1:20:20Ian Wright: listen Listen, I love Harry Kane in respects of... Let's have a vote, Ian.

1:20:26Gary Neville: Let's have a vote for now. I'm saying now, Shearer, but maybe in a couple of years when Harry's finished, it may be Harry, but I'm going Shearer now. Shearer. I'd go Shearer. Kane. See, but argument... Kane. Shearer. Let's have an argument. Let's have a fight.

1:20:38Ian Wright: Three to Shearer, two to Kane. You changed your mind? Shearer was sneaky.

1:20:41Gary Neville: No, I said Shearer at the beginning.

1:20:43Ian Wright: Yeah, but that was the time. That was the time. Oh, that was the time, yeah.

1:20:46Gary Neville: Yeah, but you can't go on what you think of them in the clear. It was in the fucking time. Roy, were they sneaky elbows, though? Yeah, sneaky elbows, yeah. Were they sneaky, though? I thought Alan was just to be fair. No, no, I don't fall for that one. He's just honest. No, I thought Alan was just to be fair. Nasty, I'll be honest with you. I must say, he was nasty, Alan. I mean, he was horrible.

1:21:03Ian Wright: He's the best number, now.

1:21:04Gary Neville: Yeah, but that makes it hard to play against. I bet you... No, but it's easy to come out when I'm attacking. No, I didn't admire people who were nasty. Why are you saying that? No, what I mean is if he was in your team, you'd want something like that. No, I wouldn't. I don't like nasty people. Roy, you are Mr. Nasty.

1:21:20Ian Wright: He was nasty. He was sneaky elbows back of the head. Nasty's like trying to stamp him. No, no, that's sneaky. I don't mind people stamping on me. Sneaky elbows. No, I'm telling you. I'll show you the videos later, all right?

1:21:30Gary Neville: No, I think he was horrible, Alan, as a player. He was horrible, yeah. I think he knew how to dig you. Sneaky, all comes under the same umbrella. Does that not make a good player, though? No, no. Difficult to play against? Cantona, Cole. All these strikers I play with want sneaky. They were good on us pros. Okay. Turned up every week and they want sneaky. no I'm not having him as sneaky he's your mate right he's been at a few things right he's just spent 10 hours a day with him oh you were golfing with me last week is it huh yeah I've seen that are you golfing you golfing yeah I do golfing you try to make arrangements to be right have you got time for a cup of tea no I'm busy and then he's up in Loch Lomond for 9 days no it was my dear friend

1:22:14Ian Wright: sneaky

1:22:16Gary Neville: oh you're a bit jealous on that tattoo that 8, 9, 10 does it say sneaky underneath it I'm going to put it

1:22:25Ian Wright: underneath and you're sneaky too I'm sneaky as well yeah Gary Lineker's not sneaky though so is Gary Lineker not in that list no

1:22:33Gary Neville: it was just for I mean it was a good question wasn't it yeah that is a good question next question is Rydie on that list yeah next question rank these sporting events Ryder Cup because it starts this weekend the Super Bowl it does say super bowel here actually super bowel who didn't spell that super bowel that's us after our coffee yeah got Ryder Cup super bowel the World Cup final Tour de France or the Ashes right I'm going to start with I'm going to put the Tour de France right at the bottom and absolutely I'll give my way right to the death on it more cups number one okay Tour de France number five happy with that yeah the amount of the amount of issues in that sport I think puts it right down there at the fucking bottom just like drugs Bloody hell, Gabby's gone crazy.

1:23:18Gary Neville: He's gone like a psychopath. Let's do this one properly. That's five. So number one. The World Cup. Super Bowl or World Cup final, Ryder Cup caches. World Cup final's every four years. World Cup final? Nope, not for me. What are you putting first then? Ryder Cup. Number one? Oh. You can't put Ryder Cup on the Super World Cup final.

1:23:35Ian Wright: You're just getting one of the moods. You know something? Well, don't fucking ask me if I can. Don't ask me. Ryder Cup never fails to deliver. Like the World Cup, yes, we wait till the latter stages and then it might get better and then you think, oh, here we go. When's it going to happen? The Ryder Cup, from the first hit to the last hit, is on the fucking line. No chance, right? He's sometimes a job after one day, man. You know what? You lot don't watch it. I do watch it. The pressure was under every single shot, every single... I do watch it. I don't think the World Cup, apart from you get to the semi-quarter final, semi-finals, then it starts turning into...

1:24:06Gary Neville: Are we talking about the World Cup final? World Cup final. So I'm just imagining in eight months' time, New York, final, is it? This is the greatest sport in the world. He's on ITV. When you're a kid, you dream about these days.

1:24:20Ian Wright: We're talking about the tournament as a tournament. The World Cup final.

1:24:24Gary Neville: Listen, World Cup final. It is the World Cup final, right? I'm not making it up. Super Bowl's got to be up there. Where are you putting Super Bowl?

1:24:31Ian Wright: I wanted to give the Ryder Cup love in that respect, but if it's just the last World Cup final, nothing beats them. Exactly, yeah.

1:24:39Gary Neville: Adele might be performing at this Super Bowl, you know.

1:24:42Ian Wright: Can I just say one last thing on the golf, though? As a continuous for three days, you get the same feeling as you're watching a great World Cup final. You get that for three days. No chance, right? What, watching the golf? You ask a golf. Some people fight shots behind.

1:24:57Gary Neville: Super Bowl's got to be bigger than the Radical.

1:24:58Ian Wright: No, it's... Super Bowl is our one goal. Team against team. You don't get that far in front unless... The only time... I saw it got beat 9-7 or something. Scottish Sheffield and someone got beaten by the European player. I can't remember who it was. but 9-7. You don't see that.

1:25:13Gary Neville: Right, good debate. Number one is the World Cup final or Ryder Cup. Who's World Cup final? World Cup final.

1:25:18Ian Wright: Two Super Bowls.

1:25:19Gary Neville: Okay. Hang on a minute. World Cup's number one.

1:25:21Ian Wright: No, no, no, you didn't say World Cup final or who's Ryder Cup? You didn't say it. Who's Ryder Cup?

1:25:27Gary Neville: I just want that on record. Okay, so World Cup final's number one. Tour de France is number five. Super Bowl two. Okay, who's number two? I think Ashes, I'm putting four. I love the Ashes. Yeah, let's put it. I think it's four. Yeah. And then we've got Super Bowl or Ryder Cup in at two and three. Super Bowl, Ryder Cup. Super Bowl. I'd like to say Super Bowl, but...

1:25:49Ian Wright: No, but you can say Super Bowl, you know? Jill, do you watch Super Bowl or Ryder Cup? A lot of people don't watch American football.

1:25:54Gary Neville: I really want to go to the Super Bowl. Yeah, but you're just saying it because you want to go to one. I've been to the Super Bowl. You've watched it golfing.

1:26:02Ian Wright: It's an amazing occasion.

1:26:04Gary Neville: Can I just say, right, so I... 15 years ago, 20 years ago, I was like a crazy golfer. I used to play all the time, obsessed. And I stopped playing, I was about 24, 25. I went to the Ryder Cup at the Belfry, I think it was, oh, it had been late 90s or early 2000s. It was amazing. Do you know something? As a sport to watch live, it's... You mean on the premises? On the premises, it's a nothing. I literally just watched a golfer go past, two golfers go past, it was a singles day, final day. Two golfers go past, look up there, watch and put. It's like, it's not a spectator sport. It's a TV sport. No.

1:26:38Gary Neville: So it has to be watched on TV at the Ryder Cup. That has a big impact. Same with the bit of F1, as I say. Can I be honest?

1:26:45Ian Wright: I went to Silverstone and I used to think the same. There's something about... No, I agree with that. That's amazing. It's amazing. Energy denies.

1:26:56Gary Neville: I'm not a fan of the Super Bowl because I don't watch it, but it's obviously a massive event. I went to the Formula One in Holland. Ryder Cup. I'd be more... Listen, I'm not interested in Wombat, if I'm being totally honest on any of that or be interested James I'd have the ashes I mean I'm not a golfer I'd rather watch the cricket than the golf I would I mean I'd put ashes well up there but I can't put ashes above riding I can see why you wouldn't vote for the Super Bowl if you're not into American football as a sport and occasion it is amazing I think sport and occasion Super Bowl is probably one of the biggest occasions in the world so I'd go Super Bowl number two who's with me Super Bowl number two if you fancy it this year I was in San Francisco and me and Jill might be going Super Bowl number two three two Super Bowl's at two and the Riding Cup Friday Cup's three.

1:27:36Gary Neville: Friday Cup's three. Ian, I'm sorry. It's a democracy. It's a social environment. It's nothing to do with the things that you're thinking.

1:27:46Ian Wright: What's going on here? I can't believe it. You lot are seeing. Watch the excitement around Friday Cup this week.

1:27:54Gary Neville: I don't know the answer to this question, but it's a good one. Never been asked it before. What is the biggest difference between the championship and top flight? I'll be honest with you, I don't really watch a lot of the championship. Possession.

1:28:03Ian Wright: I need physicality, quality. There is a lot, especially the top end of the championship. Everything.

1:28:08Gary Neville: One of their own. The difference in quality from the championship to the... No, he says, what's the biggest difference, the biggest difference between the championship and the top flight? Players, you mean? It just does the question. What's the gulf? The salary.

1:28:23Ian Wright: Yeah, wages. Well, that's a good shot, Joe, obviously.

1:28:25Gary Neville: Can I ask you a question on physicality in terms of fitness levels in the championship to the top? because we're not about fitness physicality the height the size of players the speed of them compared to you look at all the teams that come up particularly Leeds and Sunderland they've bought players who can physically deal with the premiership week in week out and obviously if you can get quality on top of that like the big clubs they're fantastic you're going places but I think for most of the teams if you ask any manager over the last few years what's caught them out when you've been promoted I think it's that physicality of the premiership and the quality Yeah, speed, quality, top of that.

1:29:02Gary Neville: Goes to another level. We'll finish with this. The best goal that you wish you'd scored, the goal that you wish you'd scored... Do you know which one I wish I'd scored? I could never have done it. You know, when they just touch it out at the halfway line and see the keeper. Halfway the line. David Beckham did it. Wimbledon. Ian Rooney did it. I'm looking at it a different... I'm thinking like Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, 99, Champions League winner. That's a beauty. You know what I... I'm thinking me just scoring. Imagine if I won the... Imagine if I scored the Champions League winner. Oh, I'd love it, girl.

1:29:30Gary Neville: we should we should pay I I just stepped into that moment I was there then for a second look how happy his little man oh my god I remember speaking to Ali about that and obviously Ali goes top guy and he said all people never do is talk to me about that moment but it's not a bad it's a great moment to talk about all people talk to me is about the people I kicked I mean on my set and off Sean go to me you know what on the line there

1:29:54Ian Wright: girl you know what the goal I would love to have scored Marco Tardelli World Cup

1:29:59Gary Neville: I thought you were going to say Michael Thomas at Anfield.

1:30:01Ian Wright: No, no, no. No, I'm talking... I've gone World Cup, bro. Michael Tardell.

1:30:05Gary Neville: That is the biggest thing of all time. You know, the thing is, is that it's just... It's just...

1:30:10Ian Wright: Apart from the Ryder Cup. But, like, if you're talking about a goal, watching that goal and watching that final, I remember when I was watching it, and just the way he celebrated, it done something to me. Oh, yeah, it's a motion. Honestly, and then you read his story about his brothers, and his brothers are in there crying. It's just the way he ran off after scoring it. Bain's popping. I don't know what that dance is. It dance out to me. Roy, Ambassadors, maybe his volley. Oh, the Euros against Russia. Yeah. Oh, what a goal.

1:30:39Gary Neville: What about you, Jimmy? I actually got asked this question funny enough. I'd never been asked it before. It was specific for Liverpool. What goal was you on? And I was thinking like Stevie's in the cup final against West Ham. But then I thought, even though that was an amazing goal, it only got us to draw. Whereas Michael got the winner in the cup final. It wasn't, you know, still a decent goal. and I think I went for Michaels actually just going I was thinking Gerrard's goal against West Ham you know that was dropping and he was shooting I bet you West Ham were going yeah shoot yeah yeah shoot yeah yous are talking moments aren't you I've gone for like I wanted the really good goal

1:31:11Ian Wright: that's the goal I've won a score so I said yeah that was my goal

1:31:2433 days 33 episodes no off switch From the goals and the glory to the politics and the problems of the World Cup, if you want soccer analysis from a podcast that's been overanalyzing the game for more than 20 years, then this is it. Join me, Max Rushton, and our expert team of soccer journalists every day of the tournament. Can England end 60 years of hurt? Or will this be another year of falling just short? Probably. World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch full episodes on YouTube. Is your cost of home insurance increasing? Get a quote online today with Arizona Home Insurance Company at ArizonaHomeInsurance.com.

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