How Good Are England? Trent Regret & Was Saka Rushed Back?

0:00Gary Neville: Just before we get started I just wanted to say a big thank you to our partner Skybet and please don't forget to subscribe if you like. I hope you enjoy this episode. Hello. Hey guys. Hello. How are we doing? I'm actually with you. I'm with you. There's a flat white for you.

0:15Roy Keane: Oh my god you're the best. Oh Jo you're it. I'm a hugger. I'm a hugger. I'm actually with you. How are you? How are you? Are you okay? Are you good Jill? Yeah I'm good. You look bronzed. Do you think? Yeah. It's been hot in the garden. Yeah. It has, I haven't been... Nice kit, nice kit. I know, but do you know what? I'm having a bit of a moment where I'm like, Jill, you're nearly 40. He's stressing a bit. No, you're good.

0:41Gary Neville: You can pull it off, Jill.

0:42Roy Keane: Are you okay? Are you tired? Are you okay? No, I'm fine. Yeah, fine. Got to you last night, but it was about 8 o 'clock, but obviously it was like 2 o 'clock in the morning for me, so I just had an early night, got up at 5, went for a coffee. Yeah, I'm good. I'm good.

0:56Gary Neville: Good, Jill.

0:57Roy Keane: How's it been?

0:58Gary Neville: It's been good. yeah we're actually halfway through aren't we now I think yeah this is the halfway point isn't it this 6 of 12 this one oh my god it's not bad

1:06Roy Keane: no he's enjoying all the like coverage and everything doing the games

1:12Gary Neville: yeah the games are good

1:13Roy Keane: my whole plan was obviously to go to the game but because of my grandma and everything I had to change everything so you think

1:18Gary Neville: that's the game you say

1:18Roy Keane: no because I could only because we had the funeral on Friday so I had to fly Saturday right so the girls were messaging us and they were like well we'll meet up after and I was thinking and oh my God, I couldn't think of anything worse. I'm like, I've definitely got all... They were going to the boxing or something?

1:33Gary Neville: Oh, yeah, yeah. They went to watch that Ben Whittaker. He was on air the other day.

1:36Roy Keane: Oh, was it him? Did he win?

1:38Gary Neville: Oh, yeah. They just showed me the punch. It was a hell of a punch.

1:40Roy Keane: Oh, was it? God. What, one punch knockout?

1:43Gary Neville: Yeah, he ducks and just goes like that. Second. Second round? He knocks him down in the first. He's basically done in the first, to be honest. He's won his last three fights before that in the first round. God.

1:53Roy Keane: I don't know a lot about boxing, but he had a lot of followers when I clicked on his... He's going to headline in Birmingham, he said in October. Oh, is he? It's interesting when you say you don't know a lot about boxing, but it doesn't stop you talking about football, does it? I've missed Roy.

2:11Gary Neville: There you go.

2:12Roy Keane: I was so happy to see you.

2:13Gary Neville: First round knockout, that, Jill. I know, I know.

2:16Roy Keane: Don't worry, I'll get him back. I'll think of something. Yes, righty. Hello. Missed you. Are you OK? No, I'm really good. Good, good. Yeah, good. You's all looked well. You've been having a jolly up. What you's been up to? What you's been doing? Not much really, yeah. How about? Did you go to the Hantons? Do you know what? We were... Yeah, we did. Now, the first week was hectic, but the last few days was... You did get invited. The Hantons? Did you not get invited? You did. You couldn't come, you were doing something? Yeah, of course. Oh, OK. You were invited. Did you play golf? I did. I watched.

2:48Roy Keane: Oh. What were you driving the buggy? No, no, I walked all the way around. Did you? I was tired after, yeah. Talk about golf. I wasn't even playing. God. Did the guy say seven and a half, eight miles, the course? It was a long way around. Did you play 18 holes? Yeah. And you just walked round? Without the dog? Just literally walk? It's a nice walk, huh? Lovely. Frankly. I want to play, girl. I went down to see the first tee off. Yeah. And that was my plan. I was going to go and get some tea and coffee. And they teed off and I'm just carrying on. The whole way. Who were you playing with?

3:22Gary Neville: Shane Lowry and then a few other people like that from... Oh, OK.

3:26Roy Keane: I actually want to go to the Hamptons, it looks cool. Did you drive it?

3:32Gary Neville: We, yeah. It was a long journey back, wasn't it? It was a long journey back. Wow, a couple of hours. Wow. Long way.

3:40Roy Keane: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. You can get them zip cars. You know, you're just going unlock it and drive. I was sitting in the back of the car, I felt like it was like five in the morning and I'd been drinking. No, in the back of the car and I was sliding around. I was like, oh, not good. It's hard, isn't it, getting driven to the Hamptons

3:56Gary Neville: You were watching videos and they were so loud, you were laughing videos. He was just laughing in the back on his own. Maybe that's why he felt a bit sickly. That's the worst thing to do.

4:06Ian Wright: Your joke factory thing was...

4:09Roy Keane: He's probably watching clips of himself back off the overlap.

4:12Ian Wright: No, the best joke. You've got to do that joke today. Oh, yeah.

4:17Roy Keane: Do you know what Hampton is?

4:20Ian Wright: No, that was one. Spits. I don't know if we're doing that later.

4:26Roy Keane: Has anyone else heard this slang word for Hampton? Or is it a North East thing? It's a slang word for a penis, isn't it?

4:33Ian Wright: Is it? Yeah. Have you heard it? Yeah, I've heard it. Hampton Wick.

4:38Roy Keane: Have you never heard it?

4:40Ian Wright: Hampton Wick prick, innit?

4:42Roy Keane: Oh, that's... What's Hampton Wick?

4:44Ian Wright: Whatever Hampton Wick is. What is Hampton Wick, though? It's a place, isn't it? It's a place, isn't it? Hampton Wick is a place.

4:50Roy Keane: Yeah, cos I always hear, like, he's got a right Hampton. No, I do, but I thought... Keep talking about me again.

4:59Gary Neville: No, that would be, he is a right-hunter.

5:03Roy Keane: No, I've definitely heard it.

5:04Gary Neville: What about the challenge, Jill? How's your body? Well done, Jill.

5:08Roy Keane: You know what, I didn't get emotional the whole way and then I seen your little clip of it and I nearly cried. Thanks for your kind words. That must have been tough, Jill. It must have been easy enough, though, was it? You know what was so good? Were you in bids? I tore my hamstring on the second day. Wow. So that like...

5:24Gary Neville: Is that running, obviously?

5:25Roy Keane: On the bike. You know when you stand up on the bike? Oh, yeah. It was right in the back of my knee. That like... Yeah, that's hard. She's touring. You carried on. Yeah. It's hard to do with a hamster. You've got a bike in it.

5:36Ian Wright: If you do it wrong... I think there must be a bike injury. Yeah, there is a bike injury you can get in there.

5:41Roy Keane: But by the time I did it, so the first day, after the first two days I'd done 220 miles on the bike. So I think it was like a new thing. and then had to run the 38 miles the day after. But what happened was I was running. Have you ever had your hamstring? So you run, like, on the front of your foot. So my toe, oh, God, it's all infected. Oh, it's horrible, horrible. And I've got, like, because I was sat on the bike seat for so long, no comments, but I'm still numb in places, like, three weeks later. So I'm hoping...

6:14Ian Wright: Didn't you have one of those soft seats, those gel seats? Didn't you get one?

6:17Roy Keane: Yeah, but it's still, though, when you've done so much.

6:20Ian Wright: I suppose so many miles

6:21Gary Neville: what was the hardest bit Jill I was a bit I'm not going to get through this well

6:23Roy Keane: the 38 miles I got to I had 12 miles left and I stopped at like this pit stop so you finished yeah is that right you finish like a marathon and Jess Ennis walks out and she's like I'm running with you now and I was like oh my like I was so happy she was there but that is one person you don't want to be greeted by when you're absolutely knackered and you have to do

6:45Ian Wright: how long did you have to run for another what

6:47Roy Keane: 12 miles and then I think it was the bike again 100 which was through the Yorkshire Dales which was quite an incline and then finish with a marathon but you know what you know you see like you see a lot of bad stuff in the news and I know there is bad things going on in the world but everyone was so lovely that I'm going through these villages and old women are giving us like satsumas all the schools had made posters like I was actually enjoying it in a in a weird way it's called like type two fun when you're in pain but you've enjoyed it.

7:20Ian Wright: He doesn't know about it. Roy doesn't really know about a type too fun.

7:30Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. Before we kick off the show, I want to say a huge thank you to our partner Skybet who helped bring you stick to football throughout this tournament. Make sure you've liked and subscribed. You do not want to miss what's coming next.

7:49Ian Wright: Of course you look at him, he's not going to be the same. Could it be mental as well as physical? It could be, Roy, but it is something because I think this guy needs a rest break. I think Declan's not a million miles away from the same thing.

8:00Gary Neville: Absolutely no chance of semi winning, beating Argentina after playing the semis. I just can't see it. That is a worry going into a knockout. You could have it worked out by Eusel. What's a big worry? Who's the next coach of Scotland?

8:09Ian Wright: He's just thrown it right in the deep end there because there isn't anybody. Duncan, you can do it. Well, they can phone me if they want. Who is next? If we get to Brazil, I think we can beat Brazil and then I think we'll probably have problems after that.

8:21Roy Keane: I always hear like he's got a right Hampton. No I do but I thought... Keep talking about me again. No that would be, he is a right Hampton.

8:40Gary Neville: We've got a packed show, we've got England and then we've got Duncan Ferguson coming in. Don't come in good Let's talk about Scotland I like Duncan

8:47Roy Keane: I've just seen him in a reception So England

8:50Gary Neville: Where are we? We've come out of a group We're top of the group And I feel like At the moment Everyone's in that position Are we good? Are we bad? Are we in a good place? We're always in that position And we're always a little bit Like that aren't we? And it just feels like We don't want to commit to I'm not sure this is right And I'm not sure that is right So let's do glass half full And glass half empty The glass half full What are the positives Out of the group?

9:11Ian Wright: Probably Jude and Harris Jude, Harry scoring. And they topped the group. And they topped the group. But I can't remember too many tournaments where England play where you're not feeling like or on the edge. That's normal. Yeah, I feel like that's normal. But it is, what I would say, there is a lot of people that are not up to speed, like our wingers at the moment. And the way that we depend on the wingers doing well, they're not playing well enough. And that needs to happen quickly. you'd have thought at least one of them would be like right he's playing for definite but like there's none of them no moment just stay on the positive for now though in terms of jude but you

9:50Gary Neville: think about jude particularly he i know harry scores but harry does score we take it for granted these scores but you think about jude like before the tournament yeah i mean i go back six seven eight months when we were doing that show and there was sort of a massive member there was a massive issue with jude broom with uh thomas tucall with the media it was a massive story I mean it seems ridiculous doesn't it the sort of suggestion

10:11Ian Wright: yeah but he's embarrassed them now he's embarrassed especially all those journalists that were coming he's embarrassed because we were talking about the fact that what he brings to that team and his confidence and how he lift the team up and he will be that guy when you need him to step up and do it he's done that but is he embarrassed I just think some lads are just confirming what we knew we knew but it's the discourse that they were trying to build around him I know how many times has that happened with England players over the last 20, 30 years. They will maybe go after somebody for different reasons.

10:44Jude was a bit too cocky. He's a bit full of himself. There was an element to that kind of criticism. But, well, I'm really top player. Did it just turn up? Yeah.

10:54Gary Neville: What struck me in the first half watching the game with you yesterday was that you kept saying in the first half, when England weren't playing very well, to be fair, you kept saying that Jude Bellingham, the amount of tackles he was putting in, and you were impressed with him. I was, yeah, because I think sometimes you can lead in different ways. so we automatically talked of course and he'd done the business in the second half with his quality player in possession but as we know the important part of football is what you do out of possession and I think he just kept that momentum and I think that will lift players and even the manager I guarantee the manager half time would be looking at him going listen we know you're a talented player but I bet you would have been loving seeing that side to it and we've seen a few clips in the other games of that as well but particularly yesterday there was two or three times where he hunted somebody down and got the ball back and you went wow your qualities he's there that will come out in the second hour but to show that bit yeah you look like he's being more involved I think so you know right he's taking responsibility I think kind of growing with it where you go there was doubts a few months ago about your obviously mood or whatever it might be in the camp and all of a sudden you turn up and you go yeah well Thomas Tuchel created a bit of that himself didn't he by the words he used about you to be fair it wasn't just a sort of no smoke without fire there was some smoke well I get that but I think the managers also managers can fire you up in different ways and I think that fired him well obviously it would do and you left him out and what happens to managers to players and even the great players we're talking about where people we're talking about Ronaldo last week all of a sudden people criticise and these lads just respond and they just respond but he looks the real deal

12:23Roy Keane: yeah and Mick Fielder I think at the national level you need somebody the one thing that I was worrying about was if Anderson was playing that wall on his own with obviously Morgan Rodgers and Beldenham a bit higher but I think he was doing kind of both jobs and what I liked about Jude was his runs kind of in behind as well just stretching them a bit more. Of course, yeah, we mentioned that and I think that role with Bellingham yesterday with Anderson because sometimes when Anderson or Rice are in there they're getting him they're having little passes between them. There was Anderson yesterday he was getting his head up and obviously Bellingham's thinking I'm getting forward.

12:54Obviously we saw for the first goal you can't beat a midfielder if he sees a bit of space where they can link up but if there's no one to link up we're going, let's put it into space. And I think Anderson was enjoying that a little bit more not going because him and Rice sometimes take four or five too many touches and it slows the game down but sometimes if you have one on it particularly against a poor team like Panamá going no no just you see that space

13:15Gary Neville: when I think of Drew Bellingham before this tournament and I think of him I think of him predominantly as a number 10 arriving in the box if I look at him yesterday if you think about a young Roy Keane who used to obviously compete in midfield they would do the defensive work but they'd also run forward constantly and make runs in behind and then they'd have that little bit of quality in the final third and you think of that sort of he actually yesterday looked like a complete midfield player he looked like he went up a different level yesterday almost like a bit like I didn't expect that bit I expected the second half bit the cross maybe the finish which was unbelievable by the end so I'm saying to you yeah we know he's got that quality but he's just again Gary's maturing he's getting a bit older he's taking responsibility and that role we mentioned before the game yesterday is deeper might be slightly easier for him because you see the space he's not afraid to run it he's not one of these lazy players who go all has to be my feet.

14:04He's going, oh, the first goal, prime example, plenty of space and a lot of players see the space or they don't see it or they see it and they don't want to do it. He's going, yeah, just put it in there and he done it a few times in the first half. He's the one who won the corner

14:17Ian Wright: for the goal. Of course. I think that he's, like I was saying. Oh, sorry, for the second goal, I'm talking about when he made the run, yeah, of course. Again, he was the only one that would make that run. He's made things happen. He made things happen for us to get the corner then he scores the corner and then he creates the goal for Harry. And I thought that the way he led, like Royce, in the whole game, he was leading by example. And I think that he wants to play in that role where when he's playing in the 10 and he's waiting for the ball to come to him, I don't think that's what he wants. I think he wants to be that guy who's tackling back.

14:49Ian Wright: Last-ditch tackles, winning the ball. Because you feel good after that, Royce. I think he's one of those. Yeah, I think it makes you feel better going, yeah. So he just keeps progressing in the game. I think that they've got to see that now.

14:58Gary Neville: he's been England's best player by an absolute street in the group in the group games I mean not I think to be fair the questions that you mentioned about obviously people have said about him off the pitch or on the pitch all that nonsense I've never heard anything bad about him actually specifically but you know you just hear the the rumors he's actually turned up every after every single game done the interviews and I I don't know I see three now remember you know three on the bounce and there was that element of oh he won't do interviews he has to do interviews because to be fair when you're leading a team like he is and you're the one that basically everybody's looking at you have to carry the team Yeah but he's a bit older now Gary I think it's hard when the player's a bit younger to go and it's sometimes for players to front up to the media

15:38Ian Wright: it's easier if you're winning games but he's got a front and I think that's part of his role now and that goes back to the tackling back obviously getting doubts about will he be starting which all seems a bit silly now and I think he's getting a bit older he's grown but he's had another year at Madrid and he it looks like he's embracing all that. You know what it is? Not like it's like, they're not shoving him out, he's going, no, no,

16:00Roy Keane: step up to the plate. I think him and Harry Kane, when I watched him in the previous tournament, I felt like they were almost fighting to be kind of that main guy at times, whereas now I think they've realised if they work together, they can both do it. Like little bits where if one's gone over, they've gone over and they've picked them up. I feel like maybe they've done a bit. Even if they're celebrating together the same Harry Kane celebration. Yeah, yeah, I feel like they've done a bit of work on that. And this is where you give the manager credit, because the manager has constantly said I have to get the players to realise it's all about the bigger picture and certain players go through certain stages particularly the players you've mentioned there where players can look after themselves attacking players can be selfish and I would knock them for that you have to be selfish so the manager maybe thought I'll fire them up in a different way by leaving them out to start looking and maybe he is now the penny's dropping

16:43Gary Neville: going it is the bigger picture they're speaking nicely about each other in interviews as well where like Jude said yesterday Harry's the best I think so there's a bit of love being shown I think off camera

16:52Roy Keane: Yeah I think the two Two clean sheets Have been good as well I know obviously People have said We've been a bit Open and We've given up chances But you would have Took two clean sheets In the last two games As well

17:03Ian Wright: Yeah Panama were poor I think it's just good To see that Jude Because he's young He's still young What's he still 22 I think Because of how he is And he's always been Like that That confident I think he's growing Into it now People are saying Oh that's the confidence You have when you're A great player But when you're younger People say Oh he's too flash But when you grow into it People say oh that's why he's like that perception of him has changed I think so and I think people accept him oh he's that guy he could be that guy

17:29Gary Neville: this episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet

17:35Gary Neville: if you said that you've got two players that look like they've hit form and they're doing well how do we now construct or how does Thomas Tuchel construct a group of eight players and a goalkeeper that can feed that machine up top which is Bellingham and Kane you'll deliver we know they'll deliver how does he now construct I must admit that's his biggest challenge if we're moving into now glass half empty a little bit the eight behind doesn't look like it's connected it looks like they're delivering in moments there's no real combinations or patterns or rhythm in the eight behind right now it's almost a little bit like it so how does he get that right because there are concerns aren't there in terms of those sort of other eight positions all of them I'd say to be fair

18:18Roy Keane: I liked what you said about keeping the wingers wide especially when you've got the two tens because at times when I'm watching I think players are taking too many touches like you can't run faster than you can pass the ball and sometimes to break down that low block I think we need better ball speed and if the wingers stay out wide you're going to obviously stretch them a lot more so I did like your obviously I've loved all your analysis but I did like that bit because if the wingers come inside as a eight or a ten it just restricts your space so much

18:48Gary Neville: he's not picked those wingers the wingers that would do that the sort Gibbs, White, Foden's, Parmers are not in the squad. So he's got wingers that are a bit wider. Let's just talk about the wingers right now in terms of sort of where they're at. Well, you're looking in a negative way. You could also try and spin that and go, well, one of them will get up to speed soon. The four of them can just continue with their doom. All you need is one or two now for them to get a little bit better, to get closer to Kane and Bellingham. They need a bit more support. At the moment, you think the two of them alone won't be enough.

19:17Gary Neville: No, I mean, look, I look at France and you think of Cherky coming on as almost like fourth sub and you've got Barkley, Due, you've got Dembele. They're so good aren't they? I mean they're wide players. Dembele the other day scoring with both his left and his right foot. I know that we haven't got wingers of that quality and I want to come on to Saka shortly to talk specifically about it but what does he do in those wide areas?

19:40Ian Wright: I'm not sure what more he can to go. He can only pick them and they perform. That's what we're waiting for now because he's shown faith in Gordon it's not quite happened for him you know he's played Madueke if we're going to be totally honest out of all of them up to this point apart from Rashford's goal Madueke looks like he's tried but then the final ball's not been great I don't think it's on the manager that they've just not performed we always say to players if you get an opportunity you've got to take it and these players haven't quite grabbed it yet but the beauty with sport you'll always get another chance but obviously there's more importance now in these games in the group games you go okay right we can maybe slip up one and do the games certainly at least one of them has to start turning up if he starts with two wide players they have to but I still think Rashford which two would you start

20:27Roy Keane: no I still like Rashford I still don't even think Rashford for all his even yesterday there was a few bits where you go but I still reckon if you were full back and you're up against Rashford I still think listen his end product is that's always a question mark over all attacking players I reckon he's still a hard guy to kind of that's where I got to even the first half he kept running behind and you've obviously defender I think when lads are stretching all the time that's where I got to

20:50Gary Neville: I thought who would I want to play against I think they'd probably want to play against I wouldn't want to play against because to be fair to him as many times as he was a little bit clumsy on the ball or he might have overrun it or the defender might have took it off him he does keep doing it and he does at some point he will may or may get something to happen on the right we couldn't have shown any more love to sack her I don't think over the last three or four years and rightly so because he's to be fair been an absolute well and the Warriors probably too strong a word but to be fair delivers for Arsenal week in week out he's been the equivalent of Salah not in terms of the goals but he's there every single week he's had this injury this severe hamstring injury he doesn't look right at all I mean for him he's usually the boy that's bubbling he's smiling he's got sort of that competitive edge to him he just doesn't he doesn't look sharp he's not right and that's a real concern for us I think and I think I'm sorry right I think when you're talking about attacking players you know if you've had an injury if you come back in the defender or a midfielder you can get away with it you can because you're just shifting and you're stopping people from playing but when your whole game is about sharpness beating people decision making so physically again we mentioned is he trusting his body and if he's off a little bit with all the top players it's huge isn't it

22:02Ian Wright: there's no hiding place and the thing is when you know as a forwarder you need that sharp move and you're not confident enough to do it and then when we watch Saka at the moment he's going he's going but then he's coming back and he's playing inside you know you're looking for that sharp blast and I think the Arsenal fans know as well and be looking and we can see that has this been on for longer than six months are we going back as far as six months I think we can go you can probably go further I think you can maybe go to the armstring injury and coming back from that and it was always going to be a worry about Arsenal and what we're trying to achieve and the rush that we're going to need in back remember as soon as Saka is not in the team when Saka back When Saka back.

22:46Ian Wright: So no matter how long they're trying to drag it out, he needs to rest. Arsenal trying to win it. The pressure that Arsenal are under, all the discourse about Arsenal, with him not playing, us needing him back. Has he been rushed back? I'm asking. I don't know. I'm asking, has he been rushed back? Has he pushed? Because we're talking about going into a World Cup and still not starting the first few games, then starting a game when we're, what, freeing now? Freeing? And he still is not looking like the Saka that we know, that sharp sack. And I think that he's somebody that probably, you know, the amount of games he's played for Arsenal.

23:20Ian Wright: What's his body language like? Does he look... I think the other players have to trust their bodies. They have to believe he's got to be explosive, don't you? If you want to go past somebody, you have to have a sharpness. And if he's constantly thinking... We've all played with injuries, we've got to just be careful. But when you're... If it's about reaction and speed stuff... A hamstring, yeah. You know what I think it's come down to that? I think when we look at how he's playing at the moment and it's not the same side, That guy has given everything to Arsenal to the point where now Arsenal have done that.

23:48Ian Wright: And at the moment, Roy, he's not the player that we've seen before because I still think that he probably needs a couple of months or so. He needs to rest. Because we're talking about from the age of 17 all the way through to here with all the pressure of Arsenal, all the games he's played for England, he's played in all the tournaments. There's not been rest any time from that time to now. Of course you look at him, he's not going to be the same. Could it be mental as well as physical? Could it be mentally? It is something because I think that this guy needs a rest break. I think Declan's not a minute miles away

24:21Gary Neville: from the same thing. Him and Declan, I think, I do remember this happening with England in the past where players have had three or four or five years of constant sort of high-level performances, demands. They play every week. To be honest, they're good professionals and they just get to that point where they just drop off the edge of a cliff. It feels like Declan and him, and it's understandable, by the way, because I think, to be fair, I've seen it before with England players.

24:41Ian Wright: You've seen the pressure that Arsenal have been on, and then two have been a major part of it.

24:44Roy Keane: League pressure, Champions League pressure, then international pressure. It can't get along. But is this bad? Go on. Go on, Jim. I was going to say, is it bad for him to be classed as a game changer, though? Because he is a player that can come on, cut in, make a moment out of nothing. Would it be a bad thing for him to be a player that comes on?

25:03Ian Wright: It's a good point, Joe, because even we saw when Maduweke played and started the game, and then he came on at the end, and then just that little bit of quality in class where he passes it through and Rashford scores, maybe at the moment, maybe that might be a role for him because I would like to see him rested and if he could come on and be in a role where he doesn't have to blast through, but he can get on it and lay it through to somebody. But it's a concern, right?

25:26Gary Neville: To say that your number one right winger's got to be rested and he's got to come on as a sub is already a concern. Well, you can see that with just the way. I agree with you, though, by the way. You're talking about the demands of playing for England, but that's the demands of being a footballer. You've got to be robust. but you can't play

25:40Ian Wright: if you're not right I think he's been pushed into security obviously but if you we can look at loads of other countries players who've played and lots of players who go no I play all them games some players play 50-60 games for other clubs and go to the Champions League and play international football so we're saying SAC has been under huge pressure but you've got to be robust to be a footballer I'm not saying he's I'm agreeing with you but is that part of a footballer's journey where you go

26:03Gary Neville: you've got to get through these days I'm just thinking back to two players who were explosive players who did pull a lot of hamstrings when they were younger with Michael Owen and Ryan Giggs do you remember Giggs at the start of his United career he's pulled a lot of hamstrings I remember Giggs he's saying to me once because he stopped pulling hamstrings all of a sudden when he was like 26, 27 and I think I don't sprint anymore I thought it was a really it's like I see him sprint every week because he's lucky because he's got the ability I remember him saying to me I don't run at 100 % anymore he said I pull it back to sort of like 95 % and make sure I just you know imbalance defenders

26:35Roy Keane: and he still played and he said

26:36Gary Neville: because when I go 100 % where you really like every He said, that's when I pull it. And I remember Michael Owen coming back from his and he wasn't quite, just that sharpness. When you do your hamstring badly, he's had an operation on that hamstring, by the way, as well, when you have that operation on it. And you just wonder whether he's going to have to, not just necessarily in the short term, but in the longer term, just have to look after that because it's a bad one, isn't it? That for a split. And the thing is... It means changing his game. It means literally changing his game.

27:00Ian Wright: Yeah. The thing is, I think, even... Can you imagine? Because we know what an Achilles injury is like and how bad that can be. imagine is that what it is now I think it's Achilles yeah and I think can you imagine your nurse trying to nurse through that where if we're talking about sprinting and sharpness your Achilles is the most component you need could it be what's the if he's having all these issues and you're looking at the bigger picture well he shouldn't be here then should he really he should be

27:28Gary Neville: no he should be resting I suppose we're going to come on to that in a minute in terms of obviously Rhys James Livramento yeah but they've not played as much football as Saka no no my point is though they are injury prone they've lost them both so my point is when you pick players who have you know Saka we had an injury coming into this tournament so he's definitely not in the Rhys James Livermanto camp because he's played a lot of football but he's got he's carrying a knock Declan's obviously been carrying this issue for quite a bit which obviously they brought him with but just you know you said should we have brought Saka should he be here if he's like 96 % because I used to think as a football player if you're 2, 3, 4 % off you're nothing you're either 100 % or something for the attacking players for the attacking players if you lose a sharpness as an attacking player you can just and if you know it Nev if you know in your head you're not at your sharpest you will stop taking people on you will do what's maybe sacking I'll just go back in and maybe the next time I'll do it instead of you're not going to play your natural game obviously not because you'll be overthinking it

28:26Roy Keane: does the manager look though and go like I'd rather have a Declan Rice at 80 % than say another player at 100 % well Declan yes do you think they'll do that right for a midfielder I think but again we go back to I think the attacking players, physically and mentally, if they're not at their best or sharp, there was an instance yesterday, remember he was kind of played through. He was favoured to get a sack. Again, if he's not trusting his body.

28:49Ian Wright: I'm worried for him. Now he's in this World Cup. He's trying to play through this World Cup, whatever. But then the season starts again. The season starts again. So when is this guy going to get the rest? For me, he looks like he needs.

29:05Gary Neville: Yeah, I think it's a concern. I think it's a big concern with him that he basically is in this position because I don't think when, you know, Rooney's come to a tournament when he wasn't quite right and Beckham come to a tournament when they weren't quite right, Beck's come to a tournament, they don't get right. You can't get your fitness. People say, oh, get your fitness during a tournament. This is not pre-season training. This is a World Cup where everyone's at the absolute sort of height of concentration. I do think you're right. I do think he's going to have to be a sub-player. He's going to have to come off the bench.

29:37Roy Keane: And yeah, the games can just take a massive toll as well. Obviously, if you win the World Cup this year, it's eight games. That's a lot, isn't it? It is a lot to be available. Because people were saying, I think it was Jamie Carragher actually did an article on Haaland being rested. I think it was. And they were like, oh, should he have been rested? But I think if they can afford to rest the big players like Declan Rice, if you could potentially... Messi was so blasted. Eight games. I remember playing seven games in the World Cup and I ran 77k in that time. and I was dead by the end of it. And I just think to keep your players fresh for the latter stages, especially...

30:13And not just physically, again, it's mentally.

30:14Ian Wright: I think this could be the first time, I don't know with you guys as well, that I've seen a manager that's picked players that have been prone to injury and they've had injuries during the season

30:25Gary Neville: and they've still gone. Well, let's come on to that now, righty, because we're going to get to right-backing him in the heart of a position that gets mocked quite a lot on this show. You're getting a ball up on you. Sorry, he's playing next game. Do you know my image of Saka is in tournaments? In being sharp on the pitch, in beaming with a smile, and being on those inflatables in the pool the day after. Do you know what I mean? Just the happiest person in the camp, and I've not seen that in this tournament, you know what I mean? Anyway, coming to full-back, which, look, yesterday, we got the team used through, and obviously Gerald Kwanza was at right back.

30:55Gary Neville: And, look, I actually think he did okay in the game. I thought he was quite sort of, you know, he was a six out of ten performance. I thought he did his job well. Against poor opposition. And it's poor opposition. but I thought to myself how have we got to a situation and it can't be what Thomas Tuchel's plan he's picked two players that you say basically they are injury prone Rhys James and Livermento they get injuries they are they're not robust you talk about robustness they've not been robust and to be fair I have a lot of sympathy for players who are injury prone because the lads at United who to be fair were injured used to feel sorry for them because they don't want that they feel like they're helpless they feel like they're not supporting the team we've now got a situation whereby Gerald Kwanza is playing right back and Trent Alexander, in a squad of 26, we haven't got Trent Alexander-Arnold.

31:41Gary Neville: I did say, that programme we did before the World Cup, how can we not have a place in a squad of 26 for Trent Alexander-Arnold, even against the Ghana, Panama, deep line? It is wrong. It's a head scratcher. It is wrong, that one, isn't it? I mean, you can't say it's right when Gerald Kwanza is playing right back in a game.

31:56Ian Wright: Yes, but this is why, Gary, when that happens, you have to go, well, we'll see how it pans out because, you know, and now we're at a place where it's panning out. This is where the question can be asked because... Well, Kwanza's out now as well. Kwanza's out. He's done his hand, yeah. And so now, God forbid anything happens to Jed Spence, what do we do? Is Shalabar going to play right back? Back three or something. Kwanza? Kwanza can play it but at the same time he's brought Shalabar in. But then you're changing to two centre-halves. It just feels like the planning... They did say James might be...

32:29I think they said James... A week or so. He said a hamstring. Of course. Oh, we've just been speaking about hamstrings for last half.

32:34Ian Wright: If it's a hamstring, what do they say in a week? So then if it's a week, you've got to rest. Then you've got to try and train and you get yourself. Then it's not like, oh, in a week, oh, you just jump back on the pitch and you're fine. You're still worried because it's a week.

32:46Roy Keane: Well, mine's two weeks after the bike and I'm just walking. So you might be all right. Have you definitely got a hamstring? Yeah. Well, I got one. Have you got a hamstring? Yeah. It's just because I thought like sprinters. I never pulled my hamstring when I played football because I wasn't quick enough. Did you have hamstrings?

33:02Ian Wright: I never pulled hamstrings. Yeah, but the strain that you're putting on that, especially when you're... I did. We did, because we were explosive. It was explosive. But the thing with Jill, what's that with Jill? She's sitting down, and then all of a sudden, when you're getting up, you're doing something else. So then, bam, you've gone to another place with your hamstring.

33:18Roy Keane: But for him to get back in how long? Like, a week? What are they?

33:21Gary Neville: I've never heard of a hamstring take a week. Do you know who we should have on the show today? Physio. That's what we should have on the show today. It gives a heads up on all these injuries. medical expert

33:32Roy Keane: you can do that thing now though whether it's fatigue fatigue your blood out your body that gets you back quicker

33:41Gary Neville: but to be fair looking at it now Thomas Tuchel look at the end of the day we're in this we're in this position at England they've done everything that you would ask them to do finish top of the group you know playing against Congo in the second round in that sense you absolutely snap everyone's hand off but there are some sort of there are some things that are just a little bit but does that happen to every squad Neb is there always a bit of you know you don't want to lose three or four right backs obviously but when you name a squad of 26 can you be a bit blasey about you know certain players you go 26 surely we'd be fine and I bet you there's other squads going we're all having no issues with injuries you said yesterday Roy he doesn't know his best 11 you said that straight after the game so I'm looking at this now I'm thinking about okay who's playing right back who's playing left back who the wingers he's going to choose and is Declan Rice fit in midfield You've got question marks over all positions, really.

34:33Gary Neville: I think so, yeah. Apart from Jude and Harry. And the goalkeeper, maybe. And the goalkeeper's fine, yeah. So what I'm saying to you is that that is a worry going into a knockout. You could have it worked out by you. Well, it's a big worry. Usually you might have a solid nine or ten. You've got question marks over the little winger. Yeah. But he's got that over far too many positions.

34:51Roy Keane: Well, Anderson, he's a, yes, rice, yes.

34:55Ian Wright: You know, the thing is, you know, can I be honest with Anderson now, especially when you see Jude playing like that, Declan to come back. Now you're thinking, OK, yes, Anderson, he's good. He's been a good player on the two-call. Then you're thinking now, do you move Jude from that position and put him to ten? And when he's being so influential there, can Declan come in and play six? And so you're thinking now, all of a sudden, Anderson, do we change what we've just done because we've got the best out of Jude? because if Declan comes back, is Declan going to play

35:27Gary Neville: where Jude is playing? I'd be 100 % not. I mean, personally, I think what he may do is put Anderson, he'll never drop Anderson, so Anderson will be here and Declan and Jude might be a little bit, because Declan can do that for Arsenal, hasn't he? He's done that before and Zubermendi's been like here and you've got Erdegaard and Rice. Declan can go forward a bit. So then what's Jude? So Rodgers would come out and it would be Jude who'd just, I agree with you, maybe a little bit deeper than a 10, but maybe it's Declan and Jude in front of Anderson, I think, might be where he ends up. He's not going to leave Anderson out.

35:56Roy Keane: You need them all doing the hard yards anyway, especially if we're going to play, I know, to the other side. But if you come up against them big nations, you can't just be a 10 that wants a fancy wall. You need to be putting in the hard yards. It's the full backs. Yeah, you're breaking it down. But it's the wide players maybe the full backs you're thinking. They're the ones probably giving them sleepless nights in them position because we know Rice and Anderson. They can't produce.

36:18Gary Neville: The thing about the full backs and the wide players for me are that it's not just a case of knowing which ones to pick. It's the fact that it's very unlikely they're going to be able to develop combinations and sort of patterns with each other. I used to think if you're playing with a right winger, it's very important the right back and the right winger have that combination. I'm not sure now. So yesterday, we were talking before the game. I think Rashford and Riley could. I think there could be chemistry between them. I think there's more potential for them to have a bit of Rashford cutting in or Riley's comfortable going forward outside or inside.

36:49Maybe.

36:50Gary Neville: On the right, I think it's... Look, when yesterday when you said Saka's in... The right one's a big problem. I said it'll be a problem for Saka because I saw Kwanzaa play in the Carabao Cup final at right back and he does a steady job there. But you're talking about the fact that that subtlety of the Ben White-Saka combinations or the Timber-Saka combinations, you're not going to get that. Because you're just not going to get that with Kwanzaa or Jed Spence and Saka.

37:11Ian Wright: Yeah, but the thing is, I think that Jed Spence could play and go round Saka because you know Saka is coming inside. So why are you then getting somebody who's not going to either support him by going outside him someone like it doesn't make sense it didn't make sense you know even if you're saying I'm going to play Quanta but let me play Jed Jed I want you to get up Saka's going to come inside we know that I want you to get outside and get crosses why didn't that happen? Does Spence have the quality like to produce crosses I think you know what you know something Roy no because everyone says he's in the team because he's a good defender he's a good defender but we saw in which game was it where he blasted he came out sub trying to get fooled so it's not like he's afraid to get fooled Well, he should have scored.

37:51Ian Wright: It would have been a great goal.

37:53Gary Neville: I think when Jed Spence gets forward, I agree with you, he can sprint forward and I think he's got great energy. I don't think it's a combination with his wide player. I think it's just a sprint forward. I don't think he's dovetailing with his right winger at that point, personally, as I see. I don't think the subtle passes being played with his combination, I don't see that developing. Jed Spence, I think, will do a very good job against potentially a Vinicius Junior or a...

38:18Ian Wright: I think that's why Tuchel tried to probably he was looking at Ben White it's probably exactly the reason why he was because he wants somebody for a combination like that yeah I think that's why it was people saying why Ben now you can see he wanted him and Saka to maybe do well Ben White to be fair does play quite well

38:34Gary Neville: with Saka they do have a little bit of an understanding and probably Madweki as well because he obviously played at the same throwback I mean right back has been such a rich position for England over this last five six seven years and we're almost like scrambling you know you had Kyle Walker Trippier Rhys James it's like now Livramento Trent Trent, we're now scrambling and the kid that's playing for Real Madrid is not here.

38:56Roy Keane: But why is Trent playing? It can't be football and reasons. It can't be, truly.

39:02Gary Neville: I must admit, yesterday if I was watching that game and I was Trent Alexander-Arnold, Palmer, Foden sat at home. Gibbs-White. Gibbs-White. I'd be looking at that game and saying, what have I done wrong? How have I not impressed enough to be in this squad? For me, I would be asking myself that question. Harry Maguire obviously went public on it. I do think, personally, if you've got 23 players in your squad, which is what historically managers have always had, if you've got three on the end of that, which we now have, I would have thought there would be a space for Trent, Palmer, and probably Maguire.

39:36Gary Neville: Because Maguire on corners, by the way, in free kicks, is a massive threat. We got through that game yesterday through unlocking it from a corner. And Maguire is the best at that, to be fair to me. So I do think those three selections at the end. But when he gets this job, the manager, there has to be an element of like, they've given him the job for a reason. So you can't, there has to come a point, it's not normal having a debate about it, but we can't keep talking about players who aren't here. The beauty of international football, sometimes when people go away, you go, I can walk with this 26th player.

40:07Gary Neville: But when we play my Kwanzaa at right back, you do talk about them. Of course, but yeah, you can talk about it and go, listen, will he do a job for him? and talk about his pluses and minuses for the players who are here. But you can't keep talking about players who aren't here.

40:21Ian Wright: Right, the thing is, is that... Because when he made that decision, we're like, oh, right, the manager made it clear, I want the bigger picture. He said it from the first time he got the job. I've never heard a manager talk so much about, I want a group of players who've got the same aims, who are good travellers, who are good to sit on the bench, whether it be the Hendersons. Every time he spoke to the media, yeah, I liked their attitude, training was excellent. He talks about the little details. so he's gone with this group of players. We can analyse the lacrosse coming up, but he's the one who sits around the bus, sees them in the training ground.

40:53So there's no question about these lads, are they good players? Maguire and Trent, they've played hundreds of games. Experienced international players, but he's seen something in these lads that he didn't fancy. And the thing is, Roy,

41:05Ian Wright: is that he's seen something and all that's fine what you're saying, but now we're in a situation where you're questioning what he's done then because you couldn't question it. Yeah, but we're saying you're questioning them. England topped the group. They've got a game coming up. You'd expect them to win. Just say Spence does play right back. And this happens in lots of international teams. You kind of fall into a system. You fall into a right back. You go, do you think he'd be starting three months ago? No, no. Spence was down the pecking order. But what happens in football players? No, do you know what?

41:31You've ended up getting it. What? Because of football and injuries. You can fall into a system of play. I'm sure it happened with you with England. Players travel. You go, I don't think he'd be playing. And you land on a system. I fully expect England to win the next game comfortably. And then you're going, hold on a second, something might happen here.

41:48Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet.

41:55Gary Neville: OK, let's cut to the chase. Right now, we are in this tipping moment where is it good, is it bad? Are we right, are we wrong? Who do we pick? That point that England always get to in a tournament and obviously it'll work itself out in the next two or three weeks. Where now, in your mind, Ian, Roy, Jill, and I'll answer it as well, where do we think England are getting right now? The likely route, and we know this can change, the likely route is DR Congo, Mexico or Ecuador in the Azteca. Brazil or Japan in Miami.

42:31Roy Keane: I've been impressed with Japan.

42:32Gary Neville: And then Argentina, I think it is in the semi. So Brazil, Japan play tomorrow, don't they?

42:37Roy Keane: We're winning it.

42:38Gary Neville: Yeah, but who did Ripley after that then, did it? I don't know. We're talking likely routes here, but what I'm saying to you is now. Roy, let's start with you, Ian, because I'm going to go around this way. Where are England getting to with what you've seen so far? Where do you think England are after an assessment of the group? Where are they getting to in this tournament? It would be interesting to see. I think if we get to Brazil,

43:01Ian Wright: I think we can beat Brazil and then I think we'll probably have problems after that. Do you think semi-final? I said semi-final from the start, but I can't offer what I've seen up to this point. Banking, putting everything, all my chips on Harry and Jude, saying that we can get to the semis right now.

43:19Gary Neville: So what do you think then, from where you are now, from what you've seen so far, where do you think England are getting to?

43:27Ian Wright: Semis. I'm going to probably say semis because I said that at the start. It could be Argentina and the semis. They won't get beyond Argentina. But you know what, I have to say the same because, again, there's players that's here that when you're first starting to talk about where England are going to get in the World Cup, that are not here. Just answer the question. So the fact is that I'm going to say... I'm going to still say semis. No, I'm going to still say semis because... Semis with a bit of doubt. Without a doubt. Semis with a bit of doubt. Semis with a bit of doubt. Semis with a bit of doubt without a doubt.

43:55Ian Wright: We've got to go. Roy, our best semis... How long ago? You took five minutes. They definitely won't go. I can't see beyond the semi-final. And I've got my doubts about the quarter-final.

44:10Roy Keane: So what could be last 16?

44:14Gary Neville: So are you saying quarter-final? So you're saying they beat Congo and Mexico, Ecuador. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. And then you think we could trip up against Brazil. Yeah, but definitely could do. And if they win it, but I absolutely no chance of beating Argentina if they're playing the semis. I just can't see it.

44:29Roy Keane: I'm going to go final. I see us in the final. Wow. That's a big shout, yeah? I think we'll get a bit of momentum though as it goes on as well I think the last two teams like no disrespect I know Garn have obviously 0-0 but you can only play what you're up against as well I think we'll hit another level when the opposition gets up Do you believe that Dom? I do

44:51Ian Wright: We need a lot of players A lot of managers said that Tuchel said that yesterday he said we would get better but I'm not sure

44:57Gary Neville: Do you not think so? Do you know something I said at the beginning what the other eight players when you think of Messi and Alvarez as an example, right? You think, right, okay, them two are going to win us the game. The other eight Argentinian players look like a massive, tight, compact unit that are going to die to give them the ball to win the game. That's what I'm thinking. These eight players that are going to serve Jude and Harry, that are going to win us the games, and obviously Jude and Harry are fantastic players. Have you got the confidence that these eight players can come together as a unit?

45:29Gary Neville: I'm not seeing it right now, I'll be honest with you.

45:31Roy Keane: In terms of team structure, I do know what you mean. Going into the tournament, you would have liked to have had a set 11 that you can work on. But I think we've got a lot of players that can produce moments out of nothing. And I think that is international football. So I do get what you mean. What's the structure looking like behind? Have we got players in set positions? There's going to be a lot of changes, which isn't ideal. But I do think we've got a lot of players with individual brilliance. So maybe it's not going to come from a strong structure. But I think we'll get over the line in the top years.

45:59Roy Keane: To get to final. I'm going to say final.

46:01Gary Neville: Yeah, I'm semi-final maximum with doubts on the quarter.

46:07Roy Keane: Okay.

46:08Gary Neville: As we are now. As we are now.

46:10Roy Keane: What does that sentence mean, though? So quarters?

46:14Gary Neville: I think that we could be... Brazil's 50... If we got to Brazil in the quarter, that is like, honestly, it's 50-50. They've got Cunha, they've got... I like Cunha. They've got Vinicius. They've got Vinicius. And they've got... Fucking hell, who's the other one? Rafinha. Rafinha. So they've got three players, similar to ours, that can go and win them the game, but you're not sure about what's behind it. I think similar, that's where we are right now. You're pretty sure about Bellingham and Kane, but you're not quite sure what's behind it. And I think, can that win a World Cup? Ancelotti, would you give Ancelotti, could he, would you look to him a little bit when it's a 50-50 game, would you think Ancelotti's got that?

46:52Gary Neville: I think Ancelotti will just go to, he'll just narrow the fours, and then he'll just leave two players up there who will go and win the game. he'll let Vinicius and Cunha and just say you two there he's done that for Real Madrid but that's my point do you think he's got that's what I'm thinking now Roy about us in terms of we're talking about Anderson we're talking about Gordon and Rashford and we're talking about Saka and Madweke but do we just narrow a little bit we've got really good players in midfield with sort of Bellingham, Rice, Anderson I think actually those three are decent if you get one more do you want the handbrake back on?

47:23Gary Neville: no when do they want the handbrake off? no but not you but everyone was saying with the Croatia game the chat at half time but I wasn't upset after Garn I wasn't wholly upset after Garn I was upset with the way Norman of the Croatia game where he was supposed to take the handbrake if you remember my reaction after the Croatia game I said there were a few problems in that game I wasn't fully comfortable with that because there were things in that game that for me were a bit chaotic was the word I think yeah but you should be we're talking about the defensive words but they've had two clean sheets so you're not giving them credit for that yeah if you had a clean sheet would you be happy with a clean sheet do you know yeah I wanted two clean sheets after the first game.

47:57Gary Neville: And that's exactly what you got, Dan. I got, but I don't want to be negative against the clean sheet. They weren't great clean sheets. What will go down the record? Because I thought they will, but Panama, to be fair, if they had anything about them, they were poor. I mean, they would have scored.

48:12Roy Keane: What's not a great clean sheet, like with a few stains on?

48:17Gary Neville: And on that point, ITV7.

48:23Gary Neville: England are back in action, and another 50 ,000 jackpot is up for grabs. It's completely free to play. Simply make your predictions now on the ITV7 app or website for your chance to win. Good luck, 18 plus and TNCs apply.

48:41Ian Wright: Can I just introduce Ian, who's coming with Scythe just to... Hi, Ian. How are you doing?

48:46Gary Neville: Home and away with... Hi, Ian. ...for the last 15 years, I think. Well done, Ian. What do you think, Ian? Where do you think we'll get to of what you've seen? semi-final nice one Ian semi-final yeah we're all aligned semi-final we're going to apart from me quarters quarters maybe let's not be under the rest of it Mexico what's their record

49:05Roy Keane: they've lost twice in AD 67 or 70 games no more than that I think it's more AD anyone

49:13Gary Neville: what's Mexico's home record in Mexico's in the Azteca 8 years unbeaten how many 8 years 8 years unbeaten and they've lost 2 in AD lost 2 in AD

49:23Roy Keane: Do you know loads of stats? If we're just little questions at you. I feel like you look like 100 people. I know routes to stadiums and routes to grounds. I have a cheap budget, but that's about it. I'm wanting the seven largest countries by landmass to participate in the World Cup. And by landmass, you mean...? Would that be...? Would that be America? Hold on a second. I'm not... I'm consulting.

49:53Ian Wright: Can we put the first one in? Hold on a sec. Yeah, let's do it. Let's not overthink it. Okay, well, put Brazil in. They've won five World Cups, 300 million people. No. Hold on a second. It's the size of the country. It still could be right.

50:06Gary Neville: But it's the size of the country, not the people. Canada, Russia, China, all them. Russia. Russia hosted it in 20... Go go Russia. It doesn't matter where... Yeah, you said... It doesn't matter who hosted it. Are you like... They've been to a World Cup. Yeah, of course they've been to a World Cup. Russia. We're all scared to death. What if the host did it? Russia. Russia. Yes, Russia's number one. Yeah, we know they've been there. It doesn't mean they've been there. You even put doubts on me on Russia. I don't know. I'm like, you're saying they held it, but that's not the question. It doesn't matter who's held it.

50:34Of course they've played in the World Cup. Can I just name another one? Australia. Master of it. Landmix. Landmix one, Gary. Are you going with that? Yeah. That's correct. That's number six. There'll be a couple of tricky ones in there, doesn't it? China. China.

50:48Roy Keane: China's pretty big. America. Yeah, I said you were... China or China?

50:53Gary Neville: China and America. China, can we go...? Has China been to a World Cup before we start? Have you seen China at a World Cup? Have we seen China at a World Cup?

51:02Roy Keane: Yeah, there must have been.

51:03Gary Neville: We can't say it, but when not? When? When? When, Jill? Has China been to a World Cup?

51:11Roy Keane: You're going to see it. Just relax. Aw, I miss you. You've mentioned it's in Australia, Russia. Canada Canada's huge isn't it Canada USA Oh he's getting stitching me up here isn't it Go on Canada's correct it's number two Of course it's number two Wow USA

51:31Gary Neville: Are you locking that in Are we putting USA in I didn't put USA in USA is massive isn't it It's bigger than Canada is it USA

51:38Roy Keane: I just walked through New York that's pretty good USA USA USA is number four Thank you I walked through New York with a torn hamstring well done It's good for strengthening So, Landon. No way do I have to draw. Me and Rhys James went for a walk.

51:52Gary Neville: Is that... I think China is bigger than... I think China is bigger than Canada, so I don't think China's on you now.

51:57Roy Keane: He's still... Is China bigger than Canada?

51:59Gary Neville: What do we think? I've got a scan.

52:01Ian Wright: Sweden? Sweden? Has Sweden got a land... Wales? Berlin?

52:05Gary Neville: What? Betty's bigger than Sweden. Jamaica? What did you say? It's America. Fucking London's bigger than Sweden. Exactly. Take these biscuits. I think it's going to be one of those kind of countries. France and Germany are the biggest in Europe, aren't they? I think. France and Germany are big, aren't they?

52:21Roy Keane: Think about the map.

52:24Gary Neville: Australia here. What about New Zealand? It's got to be an Asian country. It's got to be Asia.

52:29Ian Wright: I'm not getting enough from... I'm not getting enough from Cairns when I'm making it.

52:33Gary Neville: Has China been to a World Cup? I can't remember.

52:39China. I'm going with it. She was just talking about it. China is correct. Oh! They have been to a World Cup.

52:46Gary Neville: I think it was 2002, was it? Do you remember Rivaldo? I had my face. Yes. Oh, was it in China? Was it?

52:53Roy Keane: 2002, was that when Beckham had the... I'm having a recipe at the restaurant. I've got a lot of these. Mohegan. Not free in Argentina, man.

52:58Gary Neville: What is it? Brazil. You said Brazil, yeah? I said Brazil. I think Brazil's big in Argentina. Brazil. I think Brazil's big. Brazil.

53:08Roy Keane: Ah, yes, Duncan.

53:10Gary Neville: Duncan, come and sit in, Duncan. You can help us. On geography, Duncan.

53:14Ian Wright: Brazil. That's number five, Andy. That's a Brazil right at the start.

53:21Gary Neville: Duncan, how big's Scotland? By landmass. It's the seven biggest countries in the world that have played in World Cups. It's a landmass.

53:32Ian Wright: Who's Pakistan? Ooh.

53:35Gary Neville: I made that up by the end. I made it up again. I love a Scottish accent. It's Brazman. It's Pakistan.

53:42Roy Keane: Imagine Gary as a Scottish person.

53:45Gary Neville: Let me look at Kieran. Is that like, Georgia? Like, Georgia, didn't you? Has Georgia become... Romania, Germany, France. You've got three lives. It's something over in South America.

53:57Roy Keane: Argentina, no.

53:58Gary Neville: Argentina.

54:00Roy Keane: Argentina's got to be pretty big.

54:02Gary Neville: Uruguay, Paraguay, all those. Uruguay's a big spot.

54:05Ian Wright: He's been getting all the room service. You know they fit in the door.

54:11Gary Neville: That's us Duncan. Who's, come on, last one. We've got three lives, so we can... I know, but we could lose three lives. Australia is massive, by the way. So who's slightly less than Australia?

54:21Ian Wright: Korea. New Zealand. Korea, they are.

54:24Gary Neville: Oh, interesting.

54:25Ian Wright: That's a good one. Which one's up South Korea? Duncan comes down to the last minute and gets the winner. I like it. We don't like all the hard work. Can you... A little tap? Korea. No.

54:35Gary Neville: Well done, that's one.

54:36Ian Wright: I thought I told you it did. LAUGHTER

54:38Gary Neville: Look, in the contention, Germany, Argentina...

54:42Ian Wright: What about the Paris...? We've got to start talking... Spain, France, France are big. Is Germany big? I've got one, but I don't want to... Just chatting about it. Right, how big is Egypt? Ooh, interesting. I don't think we're talking about some in Africa, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. South Africa, here in Europe. You're talking about Europe. Good show. There's, what, five million kilometres squared difference between Australia and Swamp. Oh, it's a massive difference. So it's quite a big jump.

55:09Roy Keane: Five million? I think it could be France or Germany.

55:15Gary Neville: France.

55:17Roy Keane: Is Germany big?

55:18Gary Neville: Norway's not big. OK.

55:20Roy Keane: Norway.

55:21Ian Wright: Just show you what I mean. Because it's the smallest country, is it? You know what I'm thinking? You know when we go pre-season, there's just so much space with nothing in it. Oh, Duncan. Yeah, I think, yeah, Germany or Spain. Nigeria's big.

55:34Roy Keane: Right, we'll keep mentioning Germany. Germany, shall we just see it?

55:36Gary Neville: I think France might be bigger than Germany in Spain, but I don't know. Well, I'm... Holland?

55:42Roy Keane: Can we phone a friend?

55:44Ian Wright: Any ideas for over here? Just keep them saying everybody's... Just keep them saying... Come on, listen. There must be an African... If we don't get it, we cover it. We're covering country on there.

55:54Roy Keane: For Dom's letter, we'll cover it.

55:55Ian Wright: We're going to go France. Locking it in? Yes. Incorrect.

55:59Roy Keane: Oh!

56:00Ian Wright: Look how happy he is. What are you saying, France for?

56:02Gary Neville: Locking it in.

56:03Ian Wright: France is worse if I'm not American, man. France is worse if I'm not American. It's not Europe.

56:08Gary Neville: It's not Europe. Shall we go to Argentina or Africa?

56:13Ian Wright: His face didn't change when I said... Japan's not that big. Can we have another clue? Another clue?

56:19Roy Keane: How many letters is it? It's not Africa.

56:22Gary Neville: There's another clue. So it's South America or Asia? Oh, I'm judging. South America, what's the biggest country in South America apart from Brazil? I think it's Chile. Are you going to mention Uruguay? Uruguay or Argentina. Chile? How big is Chile? I think Chile's like a little sliver on the end.

56:40Roy Keane: Argentina.

56:43Gary Neville: I've been to Chile. Beautiful vineyards in Chile.

56:49Roy Keane: Argentina must be pretty big.

56:51Ian Wright: Is it this little cup or just any little cup? Any World Cup. Argentina. Are we going to Argentina? I'll have a second, yeah. I think something we've got to go. We've got to go home.

57:03Roy Keane: This is getting messy.

57:04Ian Wright: Gary said Argentina. I didn't get it.

57:08Roy Keane: It's a sign.

57:10Gary Neville: It's like being a scooter. Hang on a minute. Uruguay or Argentina? I was a clue. We're on the flags. I know. No Uruguay. No Uruguay. No Uruguay. Not Mexico. Okay, Argentina. Just go it. Oh, Mexico. It's interesting. Interesting. Pull this out of the flag, my friend. Go. We'll do it. We'll support you all a bit, even if you're wrong. Mexico.

57:32Roy Keane: I'm backing it. Mexico or Argentina? I'm backing it. Mexico. It's not.

57:39Ian Wright: Mexico? The correct answer was the current World Cup. Oh, no! This is Argentina. That's ridiculous of you, gal. You've seen it. Right. Well, we messed up on that one.

57:53Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. Duncan, the place to start probably before we get into the Scotland performance obviously them going out is the fact that Steve Clarke it's never nice when a manager loses the job after a tournament or hands his resignation what's your first thoughts on that when you heard that yesterday?

58:15Ian Wright: I thought you'd been shocked to be honest yet he's just saying the four year deals you know so is it a bit of a knee jerk reaction I thought maybe I thought a wee bit like that maybe he's been getting a wee bit of stick and he's maybe just had enough. That's what I thought originally, you know what I mean? Why would they throw in his resignation so quickly after the game? So quickly. How did he know getting a plane, go home, walk the dog, you know, do whatever, and then make a decision?

58:44Gary Neville: Is he beating himself up? Because obviously there's a lot of scrutiny on every manager at a World Cup. Scotland, obviously, have had a very tough group. Is it a case of sometimes when you're a manager, you beat yourself up so hard that you just think everyone wants me out and I remember Kevin Keegan just resigning after the end of a game once with England and he just didn't give himself tiny games yeah and he just said I've taken it as far as I can is there an element of that I think so

59:07Ian Wright: it looks like that doesn't it I don't you just think it looks like that you just signed a contract I know it was so quiet I know that but why would they sign it if you had an intention Scotland wouldn't have gone to win the World Cup wouldn't they wouldn't have gone to win the World Cup so you know so why would they walk out because we've been beaten by Brazil. Do you know what I think though, Duncan? I think when you come away with a group of players for four or five weeks, he's on a brilliant job in terms of qualifying. Yeah, you signed a contract and that. Yeah, listen, people sign contracts for different reasons and he's come over here and the three tournaments he's involved with, there'll also be an element because he looks a pretty decent, honest guy and the way the games have panned out.

59:43Yeah, Utah did only win the one game, they're always up against it, but the way it kind of, I think you probably look and go, I've done my bit with these players. I think sometimes I can hit you as a manager going, I can't. And in the three tournaments they're qualified for, which is fantastic. It's been about one win, I think, four goals in the nine games. I bet he's not like and a lot of managers you can reflect as far as he can take them he would know that before he signed the contract that he's got the players that he's got why would they if he's got the players that he's got why would they sign the contract you'd have your mindset with your staff going it'll be different this time in the last two tournaments before he came over he said his interview's gone I'm a bit more older I'm older I'm more wiser I'm going to enjoy this a bit more and the one thing he didn't look even with the way he didn't look like he enjoyed it I think he's that type he's a wee bit that type he's not a smile he looked emotional

1:00:34Roy Keane: after that interview but even when he had the win in his first game you were going big win for Scotland even afterwards that game was a struggle didn't it he only beat him 1-0 he just seemed a bit downbeat

1:00:45Ian Wright: possible I just think he spat his dummy to me that's what I think anyway that's what I think he's done I think it's a wee bit of criticism he's been getting criticism of Dungs and he's done such a great job getting Scotland to the tournaments I think he's been I don't deserve this stick look what I've done because look he's been I don't know I don't know the guy well I know him a wee bit he's my assistant at Newcastle but I don't know what he's thinking but it just looks like Duncan's chair man Duncan's chair is squeaky is it sorry it just looks like it's not that big rat I saw the other day there is it the tail you saw her at

1:01:19Roy Keane: did you?

1:01:20Ian Wright: like that it was running around

1:01:21Roy Keane: no way what floor are you on? you're going to see if you were in New York what floor are you on? I'm not staying in this posh hotel this is too posh Duncan, just quit it. No, you're not. You're going to squeak as well.

1:01:34Ian Wright: Sorry. No, no, sorry. I don't used to think he just spiked his dummy to it at all. He's had enough of the criticism. It just feels like he's had a lot of criticism of being a Scotland manager. I think for him to... He is the World Cup, but for him to do it then after signing four years, it would be... I think he'd regret that after a while.

1:01:50Gary Neville: We had sort of a little bit of an argument brewing at the end of the show yesterday because I was like, from my side, looking at the players that Scotland have, What did everybody expect against Morocco and Brazil who were in the top eight teams in the world? They were so narrowly beaten by Morocco in a sense they could have had a penalty. And then they got obviously beaten up by Brazil, which I don't think was a surprise. I didn't expect anything other than what I saw. Maybe they could have got that little bit over the line against Morocco and got that penalty. But what more could he have done?

1:02:22Gary Neville: I know Roy and Ian said yesterday they should have more of a go. but I was like who are they going to have more of a goal with which players have they got that are going to have more of a goal you know what I mean what's the Scotland identity where they play the team is it high pressing is it

1:02:39Ian Wright: well it's horses for courses in a way obviously the other team had made the possession didn't they so he was going to sit back so it wouldn't be high pressing wouldn't it be Shanklin and all that because they're not that type of player so he probably would be in his rights to sit back and defend a bit more against Morocco and try to counter try to look for a set play but that's the point but the way you're describing it Nev is so teams come off to the World Cup so you thought it was the best they could have done so you think no team should ever then overachieve

1:03:08Gary Neville: no my point is do the best team win every game of football from Scotland if you said to me how can they get a result against Morocco as an example right I would have said sit in stay in the game and try and get a moment where you can either win 1-0 or draw 1-1 that's what they did it nearly happened It nearly happened, I thought. But you can't be going on after 70 seconds. To be fair, the boy hardly steps up. It's a bad decision from him. But look, to be fair, he's playing at a level that... And that's your point. The guy can't run. My point is that with the players that Scotland have, I think against Morocco, the tactic that he deployed was the one that I think probably 99 % of the coaches would have deployed.

1:03:44Gary Neville: Sit deep, try and have a little bit of a goal towards the end and try and get something to get us over. It didn't quite work. But I don't think he could have had... He couldn't have high-pressed Morocco. No, but he would look at his nine games in tournament football and they've just come up short in loads of ways like that. When we're saying a mindset, we're not saying for Scotland to go gung-ho, but you're also against Brazil, don't want your two centre-halves playing around the back thinking of players where you've got people closing you down. That's what you might say to certain players. Your identity might be going, and go back to when I played with Ireland, don't be afraid and don't be a football snob here and go, we can play around the back.

1:04:18No, let's get it for them. We get up there.

1:04:20Roy Keane: There's nothing wrong with that. What was the expectation of them coming into this tournament? To get out of the group? That would have been like... I just hung up with that.

1:04:30Ian Wright: Maybe if they scored another couple of goals, I don't know how the points went. The goal difference didn't help Haiti. I hate it, yeah. Maybe they got a couple of more goals or something. The three points get you through and then, no. Has anybody got three points and went through the next round? Four points was defo, wasn't it?

1:04:45Roy Keane: But they haven't massively underachieved, have they? To get out of the group would have been a big thing.

1:04:50Ian Wright: Have you had that much? stick because I've not seen any that much stick I mean I know you've been getting them stick but I've not seen that much I'm on them

1:05:00Gary Neville: when I look at a group of players and you think right okay we're probably going to have to play a bit deep because we've got no pace at the back we're not going to high press because we haven't got possession players you haven't got players to keep the ball you haven't got a Duncan Ferguson that we can lump it up to or a Niall Quinn that Ireland had and they had runners for midfield so what has he got he's got two players in midfield who are basically McGinn and McTominay he's got an ageing back line with Grant Hanley and Robertson and the agent team and we're going to go on that road with experience Gary because we're a sex side country in New York if they were young you'd be going to do an experience so what do you want you can't compare Croatia's players with Scotland's players I'm not I'm just talking about the ages of them no but my point is they've got an ageing back four they've got a midfield so they've got an experienced back four they've got an experienced back four they're going to play deeper you've got a midfield you've got a little bit of quality in McGinn and McTominay and you've got very Yeah, I think so.

1:05:51But that doesn't mean they can't get results. How do you think they're qualified? How do you think they're qualified? They nearly did. They nearly got a result. Morocco was not bad. Morocco was not bad. Can I say it, Tonkin? Morocco was not bad, right? I think for Scotland sometimes there's groups... Sorry?

1:06:05Ian Wright: Morocco was not a bad performance for the other. I know we lost, but it was not a Tonkin, was it? It was not a theatre for when we got from Brazil. Absolutely not. We're agreeing on the same thing here. But I'm sure the manager's job is... How do you do... A manager's job is to find a way... I'm happy to praise Steve Clarec de Lacoste but I'm trying to visualise a picture why he would say I've done as much as I can with this group of careers it's good to have been the criticism why he's through his resignation

1:06:33Gary Neville: but where did the criticism come from

1:06:35Ian Wright: I'm not sure because I don't really keep it uptake it must have been for the Scottish press or the press or whoever it has been obviously they've hammered them on the fact that maybe they lacked goals or they lacked on the front foot or something that people would just say because they've lost a few games. But we wouldn't say that because we say maybe have they sat in a low block and defended and get the kids back. They scored four goals against Denmark in Hampden. Right. I know, playing at Hampden

1:06:56Gary Neville: in a tournament full play. Playing at Hampden in 10 degrees in the middle of February is different than playing at World Cup. That's my point, of course. But they can produce results. Scotland can produce results. Look, I think to be fair, it's the fine lines of Morocco with that penalty stroke not penalty on Mac Tom and A and it was always going to be a case of can they get a point against, scrap a point against Morocco. That was always going to be down the grid. I think they're all going to get beat by Brazil and they did do the job against Haiti so I think if he said would the Scottish FA be putting pressure on him no you don't think so

1:07:25Ian Wright: no I don't think so

1:07:25Roy Keane: no he's just gave my contract no if they just stopped him for four years

1:07:29Ian Wright: you know he's gave him a contract and you'd think he'd been seeing that contract too like a month ago he signed it or three weeks ago he signed it didn't he so what's changed since then

1:07:36Roy Keane: but he's done a good job hasn't he qualifying for three tournaments obviously the next step was to try and get it unlucky he's not done it but a lot of managers leave a job because they will work with a group of players and he's been there for seven years but seven years he's had 81 games. He's not with the players for 300 games and he's obviously come in this tournament and the whole build up to the tournament, history, can they get a big win, can they get all the group and when they come up short the manager has to reflect and we say...

1:08:03Ian Wright: He never reflected long did he, he never reflected too long, only reflected for an hour then he resigned. I know but he knew for three or four days they were going out, he waited to or officially they were gone he would have been sitting on that for two or three days in the hotel with all the players sitting around reflecting that's what managers do and he has to look at himself going I've had three tournaments now which is fantastic my goodness can't praise the man enough but in the tournaments he would look at a lot of managers will leave a job and go I've tucked these players as far as I can and I guarantee that would be one of his main reasons there might be something going in the background and he said with all his experience he said he's not daft he went the last two tournaments he said I didn't enjoy I'm going to join this a bit more he said that a few weeks ago What's that matter?

1:08:44From day one Even when they won their game Even afterwards It was criticism The way you played And he probably just thought I've had enough

1:08:50Gary Neville: The last three or four days Would have been a horrible Three or four days for him Waiting for that sort of What would be And Gary when you're waiting What do you think you're doing? You're thinking and you're reflecting

1:08:58Roy Keane: That percentage was just going down Wasn't it? It was like They've got so much percentage Then it was like I agree with you Duncan I think maybe after the last game Where you're going You're out And they flew straight back You would have had Breathing space with his family You would have gone for nice walks And chill out But he's sitting in a hotel for three or four days and it's all, hey. Do you think,

1:09:15Gary Neville: is there Duncan a point that you say he thinks it's because of the criticism that he's received in this tournament but obviously with him being in the job for seven years do you think he's looked at the likes of Tierney, Robertson, Hanley and thought there's no one coming through. I actually think this is as far as I can actually tell. This team probably is going to struggle a little bit in the next few years because I'm going to come on to the Scottish Talent Bank in a minute and what Scotland's talent looks like in the future but if I was looking at that team and I said this yesterday on the show, the 26 players there's some of them that I don't even know some I don't even know out of the 26 and going back to sort of 20-30 years the talent that Scotland had what is happening in Scotland because I'm going to just read these names I don't know about that these two what's happening

1:09:58Ian Wright: we've got four or five in the Premier League we've got three or four in the Serie A in Italy we're not that bad we've got a no bad wee pool of players I mean there's four or five in the Premier League there's three or four in the Serie A there's a few playing for Rangers it's not that bad

1:10:13Roy Keane: is it strength and depth though?

1:10:15Ian Wright: it's always going to be the case for Scotland isn't it really we're only a wee small nation aren't we there's no many people playing football in the desert yeah but maybe there's many people playing football I've lived in Mallorca for a few years and it's completely different it's completely different from playing football in our country they've got football pitches everywhere man and they've got the sun I used to want to have qualified coaches And the thing is, Roy, when you look at the size of Croatia and the same as Scotland, Croatia and Scotland are footballing nations. Croatia have totally invested in that.

1:10:52Ian Wright: Why do you think they continually produce that player? Have Scotland done the same since that time? There might be more people playing football in Croatia. There might be less people playing football in Scotland, which I'm sure there will be. It's the weather, it's the pitches, it's the facilities, it's all that stuff. When I was living in Mallorca, I told you, people were playing football for a dusty dawn. there was 12 o 'clock at night they were playing football do you know what I mean back up to our country there's not a lot of people playing football

1:11:15Gary Neville: so kids are not playing football in Scotland

1:11:18Ian Wright: no I would say there's less and less people playing football than there's ever been but it's amazing when the team gets knocked out of a tournament like Scotland did and all of a sudden people are asking questions about Scottish football in academy and they don't really care about Scottish football because everyone is interested in their own team it's amazing the team has to get knocked out for everyone's start people who are on fall as school to Scottish football they wouldn't have a clue about the Scottish League and then they go what's up the Scottish football do you know I know about Scottish football no not really the reason why Roy is because when you do look back on the past of Scotland they produced continually they've always had that support and they always produced quality players but then something yeah but something's happened Roy where it's not happening now because we're going to talk what we're going to talk about progression line now I have talked about

1:11:58Gary Neville: this over many tournaments over the last 10-15 years about the Northern Irish players Republic of Ireland players Welsh players Scottish players that when I was growing up in the 1780s were basically infiltrating the top clubs in England what's happened what's changed either in those countries or in the Premier League is that where the the scoping world got bigger these clubs were not scoping back in the day they were just I'm going back to the Manionaisers for back in the 80s they'd always have an Irish connection but no the scoping world they're looking they're looking everywhere but these players played for Manchester United Arsenal and Liverpool in the 1970s and 80s Duncan I'm not giving gods that you're here but this was the 1970s Martin Bucking Brian McClare Joe Jordan Arthur Olberst and Jim Leighton Gordon McQueen Gordon Strachan Charlie Nicholas Kenny Dalgleish Graham Sooner Stephen Nichol Stephen Nichol Alan Hanson Gary Gillespie John Walken Were they winning games at the World Cup?

1:12:44Gary Neville: No no I'm not saying they were but to be fair Roy back then it was a lot harder to get to a World Cup for a start it was like a tournament for 16 or like it was harder it wasn't a 40 those players now would be getting into the last 32 and last 16 they would be so Duncan these players right were great players in any generation why have Scotland look you've got Andy Roberts who's done a great job at Liverpool you've got McGinn who's doing a good job at Ville you've got Tom Mink But you've got three or four, but you used to have a plethora of players there that played at the highest level of just the top three clubs in England, Man United, Liverpool and Arsenal in the 70s and 80s.

1:13:18Gary Neville: They spread there on the years there. That's 70s and 80s. That's 70s and 80s. It's 10, 15 years up, ain't it? That's a generation.

1:13:25Ian Wright: That's a different era of player football. Ian, I'm asking a question.

1:13:29Gary Neville: What's changed that Scotland, over the last 10 to 15 years, are not infiltrating the very top of the Premier League in the same way? Has the Premier League changed Or is it the Scottish kids Not playing anymore

1:13:39Ian Wright: It's tougher now isn't it It's tougher to get in the Premier League New than it was When back in our day It's much much tougher There's more foreign players In the Premier League now Isn't there There's more foreign players Taking them a lot We're bringing pools World class players Into the team So the Scottish lads Might not be getting that chance Or the English lads

1:13:53Gary Neville: Not getting that chance Why is less Scottish kids Playing football In your words Than they were 20 years ago

1:13:59Ian Wright: Well I remember Back in the day We used to play football On the street didn't we And before you know it The signs come up didn't they No ball games allowed and all that used to be used to batter the ball off the boys' shoes and everything and they used to put the signs up to play the ball game that started it we used to play in the street all the time there was always pitches available for you to go and play and there was always people willing to take the teams I got through the boys' brigade I come through the boys' brigade so there was always people willing to take lads to go and play football and girls but that's maybe changed that people aren't willing to volunteer to take it

1:14:30Gary Neville: because of whatever reason but Duncan Scotland have produced some of the greatest coaches in the history of British football and some of the most fantastic players. No, it's a fact. That's just a fact. I'm not even going back to Dennis Law and players like that. That's a long, long team of the week. No, I get that. That's a long team of the week. If you're Scotland and you're trying to reinvigorate this country into a Croatia, which is four or five million people, you've got a football passion up there in Scotland. To be fair to England, Duncan, about 15 years ago, there was a reset with St. George's Park.

1:15:00Gary Neville: Whatever you say from that moment, the women's team have gone on and won tournaments. the under-21s have gone on the one-to-one the actual national team have gone on and produced more better technical players and they get into semi-finals and finals there was a big reset in English football 10-15 years ago from the FA that to be fair has brought reward it has I mean there's been that's all I was saying

1:15:19Ian Wright: when I was saying that Scotland's their vision isn't bold enough what's Scotland doing they need to do something like that they'll probably not get that funding to begin with I would think and also it's like everywhere people are building on pitches aren't they there's a lot of development going on in the country people are building hooses and things so you've not got the facilities to go and play football have you they've not got a big St George's Park or all these academies or whatever they've got in England money does come into it doesn't it you know what I mean there's a lot of

1:15:45Roy Keane: funding in there keeping fields kids aren't playing football in there I talk about when you get to the tournament still find an identity where you might go you're up against it we had it with Ireland a little bit a bit like Scotland you're always up against it you're not producing Harry Kane's and these type of players but you find you find something Scotland have done to their credit in terms of qualifying. It's that last bid. So when they've come over here, whatever success they've had in terms of qualifying, they've just come up short.

1:16:15Ian Wright: I don't think it's a big major thing, is it, really? We'll beat it for Brazil. I think we're going back to the point with Steve Clark. I mean, you know, I don't really know why he's through the twirling, but I think it's been a wee bit of a knee-jerk reaction.

1:16:26Gary Neville: What's next? Who's the next coach of Scotland?

1:16:31Ian Wright: when I read it I thought he's just thrown he's just thrown it right in the deep end there because there isn't anybody who is next

1:16:38Roy Keane: Duncan you can do it

1:16:39Ian Wright: well they can phone me if they want who is next who is the next Scottish coach we used to have loads of good Scottish coaches now all of a sudden because again we're not getting opportunities English coaches might not be getting opportunities Scottish coaches are not getting opportunities who is the next guy it's a great job for somebody it's a fantastic job but who is that guy especially yours are coming up it's a great chance for Scotland to qualify for you so if you're if you're some top managers out there looking for a war Scotland's a great job for somebody absolutely a tough job I would like to see a Scottish fella in charge of Scotland I'd like to see an English guy in charge of England I'd like to see a Brazilian guy in charge of Brazil that's just the way I am I'd like to see a Scottish fella manage Scotland why?

1:17:16Ian Wright: does that guarantee a success? no it does no but all the players have got to be Scottish so how come the manager's no Scottish that's the way I look at it all the players have got to be Scottish all the players have got to be English you don't mind Angelati being manager of Brazil then? I think Brazil who tell their own Brazilian manager. But the Brazilian wouldn't have a cup but they won't be worried about it. That's a different point. I'm just saying me personally. Ireland had Jack Chatton to trap the tournament. I get that. Do you think the Irish fans when they were singing at tournaments were worried about the they were like you've done a job for us.

1:17:42Ian Wright: I'm not arguing with that. I'm just saying my preference would be for a Scottish player. Okay, I'm sorry. Who then? That is all. Who? Which Scottish? Who's out there? I've got no idea because there's no idea. The only one I could think about is David Moyes but he's in a job. Scott Gemmell? Scott Gammel's through the 21s he's been there for a long long time if that was the progression yeah whoever it is whoever it's going to be he's going to be but it would be Graham Sooners why is it Graham Sooners can we get Graham back he may play as well if we'll get him to play in the midfield for us I think sometimes

1:18:05Roy Keane: it's good though for a national team to be introduced to someone who's maybe not from the nation as well like to introduce them to a different way of thinking England

1:18:13Ian Wright: to a women's team they've tried a German coach I think I've tried everybody's tried different coaches that's just me as a preference that is all if you won the World Cup England won the World Cup I'm sure you wouldn't be bothered would it nobody better if they won the World Cup with an English fella? Would you know that would be a bit better or no? No If you're winning you don't win I've been in the dressing room with people who aren't bored Jack Chowton never an issue if I thought he was really good for the job and he can motivate the team and go not worried but he's from Cork, Dublin or Dunygall But what happens if he was for Dunygall and Cork and that would you have preferred that?

1:18:47Gary Neville: If he was doing a good job I must admit I prefer an English coach being in charge of England Duncan I prefer an English coach being a child of England but I played under Sven Goren Eriksson had a couple of squads with Fabio Capello so I've seen it from both sides I've never seen the benefit yet really of a foreign coach managing England but if Tuchel won it there's 48 teams here how many countries are managers who are from that country oh there's a lot Roy how many have a guess or 48 I don't know have a guess I don't know

1:19:18Roy Keane: more than 50 % what was that What would you say that? Out of the 48 teams that are at the World Cup how many managers are here who are managing a team that they weren't born in? More than 50%. 27. I think there's only

1:19:31Ian Wright: one manager who's ever won it who's won the world companies of different nationality. I don't know who it is but somebody told me there's no one. What I'm saying is the odds of England winning it with a German coach are minuscule. I know what you mean yeah of course. Do you know what I mean?

1:19:46Gary Neville: There's no many people who have actually ever done it. I mean look English coaching has struggled now for a long time English coaching sort of in the 70s and 80s with like Terry Venables Bobby Robson at Barcelona and PSV Ingover and Roy Hodgson was international they all went overseas and they did very well and obviously English coaching struggled in the last 20 years

1:20:02Ian Wright: what would happen what would happen is right if the Premier League hired all British coaches or English coaches what would happen right one of them would win the league one of them would win the FA Cup one of them would win the League Cup whatever it was now they'd all then become winners so you would all hear English or British coaches winning winners and the team who's going to do it the only difference is then is the candidate in the Champions League that was the only thing about it the thing is Duncan the reason to be fair though it's a pipe dream because you've got four and runners you've got a lot of four and runners

1:20:31Gary Neville: why would clubs appoint English coaches if the England National Team won't appoint an English coach correct well that is that's the big one isn't it it's not a great sign and signal to English coaches when you're saying that basically we want more coaches in the Premier League from England but actually you won't even put one in three out of the last five or six England coaches have been obviously foreign coaches and look I think the Premier League has been rewarded and we've loved it enormously for the introduction of foreign players and foreign players so I think it's been unbelievable but we can't we're struggling to get footing I mean Eddie Howe's done a decent job in the last seven or eight years Harry Redknapp did a good job obviously at Spurs but it's been it's been tough But the British coaches

1:21:12Ian Wright: did get tough jobs didn't they they didn't have handed the big jobs really the top jobs

1:21:16Gary Neville: They did they did Frank got the Chelsea job Stephen got the Villa job Frank's come good in a bit we have had moments where English coaches have had decent jobs Eddie got the Newcastle job obviously there has been moments but it's few and far between on your reflection Duncan the first week of the World Cup the Scottish fans almost like they were marching across America into every baseball stadium it's not the first time

1:21:42Ian Wright: I've marched across America

1:21:45Gary Neville: it's not the first time I've marched across anyway in fact do you know something they were absolutely obviously they're a joy they're absolutely incredible I mean just what's your reflection for them of the fact that the money that they've spent the time that they've spent

1:21:57Ian Wright: I don't know how they do it man it's incredible any fan can do it you know what I mean but Scotland fans have always been fantastic haven't they for whatever turn I've went to I don't know how they find the money but they tend to find it didn't they but they've been incredible and I think they've been is there a is that an issue where you started with the fans again I go back to Ireland over the years where they have a great crack to enjoy it but no there's a bit of like no there's still an element of our supporters we just want a bit more we want a bit more than the sing song Ireland were like that and they want your team to have a right go and give everything win or lose and all that to carry on have a go and I think there's just been a bit on this trip where I think I'm sure if you speak to Scotland fans going we just wanted to touch more he's done a brilliant job and like everybody else watch thing everyone wants a bit more we all do we all want a wee bit more pal don't we I mean I want to stay here I want you to stay here a bit longer, but unfortunately I've got to be on the day again.

1:22:50Ian Wright: What game have we got? What game have we got? Thank you. There's that many games coming, isn't there?

1:22:58Gary Neville: And Duncan, what sort of final reflection from you on Scotland in terms of... Oh, Bonnie, Scotland. Come on, sing along. What was that?

1:23:06Ian Wright: Oh, Flourish Scotland. Come on, Roy. Where's the next one? Get them singing it. Oh, Danny boy.

1:23:13Gary Neville: The pipes, the pipes. Final reflection, Duncan. Is it a big reset moment or is it just a case of, no, this could have happened. Don't mention Dennis Law and Jimmy Jones. No, that's too far.

1:23:22Ian Wright: No, you're right. I think the manager, to me, was a bit of a shock. I'm leaving. He's contracting, leaving Scotland. So now they're going to have to find another manager. It's going to be a difficult one, isn't it? And as you said, the pool of players might not quite be there. But they've got no bad base there. It's not all doom and gloom. No, come on. It's two years to the Euros, is it? Scotland are. So they've got a bad time to rebuild. Way down to Italy out here. There's lots of teams around here. I'm talking out here. Sorry, I'm trying to give you some mild support. Yeah, well, that's a reset, isn't it?

1:23:54Ian Wright: To reset. They don't need a new manager, won't they? Have you got any thoughts to yourself, Roy? He's going to come up against the same problems. He's going to come the same... It's a great sea point, you're keen. Most jobs have problems, Roydy. I think it's a great job. When's the Scotland... Can I leave you... I've got a good nickname for you. When they're going to have a reset for the fans, so the fans can have, like you say, a little bit more. It's got to come from somewhere. Can't just keep thinking the manager's going to come from somewhere and then cajole these players to do it

1:24:17Gary Neville: it's a great job Roy in the sense that managing a national team to be fair Scotland is a proud but what I would say is if you look at the pool of talent that that manager has got to go in and work with you know it is tough it's not a big pool of talent can I just say

1:24:31Ian Wright: the one I just see you see me in the pool Oliver Burnley was the boy at Hull he could have been in the squad he was the top goal school in the championship for Hull they're not in the Premier League the boy George Hurst no you talk about Oli Burnley at Hull he scored in the playoff final he scored about 15-20 goals in the championship he's up to the Premier League now there's a boy called George Hurst who was at Ipswich who scored about 15 goals for Ipswich he's up to the Premiership now so there's two strikers there that will be in the Premiership next year they should have been maybe playing or in this squad do you know what I mean there will be a lot of people in for our Scottish job a lot of top managers will fancy that job so I wish them well Duncan I hope you get it it's a good job yeah Duncan Duncan, well done.

1:25:14Ian Wright: I had something I'm ready, that's for sure. Thanks, three points. That's us, Duncan. I was thinking of three points for the basketball. Did he tell you he beat me to the basketball? Oh, I say not online, actually.

1:25:23Roy Keane: He told everybody, hasn't he?

1:25:25Ian Wright: Anyway, thanks very much. I'm going to go across the road and do this thing. Well done, Duncan.

1:25:30Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. It's amazing when a team gets knocked out of a tournament, everyone's worried about their grassroots. Everyone looks after themselves. But England, to be fair, Roy, did have a massive reset with a big investment and a big sort of play around sort of coaches and stuff. And to be fair, they have improved. I know, but everyone's worried about Scottish football and nobody watches Scottish football. Nobody watches Aberdeen or... Right, I'm sat here purely because Scotland have gone out of a tournament. It's obviously a big news story. The managers say, I won't be giving too many thoughts.

1:26:02Gary Neville: But we shouldn't just be concerned about a team when they get beaten in a tournament. No, but a lot of that's money, infrastructure. It's not my country. Oh, I know that. I know that. But I'm just talking about all of us.

1:26:11Ian Wright: It comes to a point where you think, well, what's going on? like we're saying with Scott, what's gone wrong? Because now it's going to a place where they've done well, they've qualified, but then it's just completely... The manager's just resigned, just like that. We're speaking about them now. You say we don't watch them on a regular basis and that because... I mean, the Scottish League is the whole structure of it. Because I said, the Scottish Federation, they need to do more to build that league. Like he's saying, they don't play football. They haven't got nowhere to play football. They've got to look back on...

1:26:39Ian Wright: Yeah, and that's the SFA. But there'll be politics at clubs because Celtic and Rangers, obviously Celtic are only interested in Celtic. Salford are only interested in Salford. There's a selfish side to sport. They've got to do something because them fans deserve more. We've not brought up Ireland's problems. Wales haven't qualified. Northern Ireland. All these smaller countries, these battles are constant.

1:27:01Gary Neville: And a lot of it will come down to the dollar. St George's, how much was St George's now? Back in the day, it was 100-odd million, but it'd be now probably 200-300 million if you built it there. Right, so you're talking about that. Where do you think these countries are going to find, when they've all got real issues going on, Ireland is staying, where are you going to find£200,£300 million? But I just think if you've got, look, it depends what your... Population, the size of population. Yeah, but it depends what your... If you've got sort of like health, wellbeing, mental health, physical health, and you want to drive sort of outcomes and impact those things in a country, sport and football, particularly in the likes of Scotland and Ireland, could be huge drivers for those types of things.

1:27:36But in Ireland, for example, again, we go down to... We go back to money. I mean you have challenges around about kids but what happened to kids back in the day playing football you've got iPads you've got different challenges now kids are going away from Ireland a competition for motorsports rugby, Ireland, football for such a small country these are ongoing challenges and you just have to wait hopefully every few years a Robbie Keane will turn up somebody will turn up Wales, a Garrett Bale a Ramsey that's what they need they're not going to produce eight, nine, ten players but if you're the football

1:28:02Gary Neville: association of a country for me your only job really is probably two or three things one is to make football accessible for every kid in the country. Make sure the infrastructure's there and the facilities, and make sure you've got coaching programmes that are of a good quality. So to me, that's your job as an association. So England, to be fair to them, I'm not saying the outcomes have been amazing, because obviously we've not won a tournament with the men's team, but the women's team have won two tournaments. The under-21s, the under-8s, they've all won tournaments. So it's been a big... It's actually happening that you can see...

1:28:30Gary Neville: I know, but what were they doing for 30, 40 years before that? No, no, but I get that. But what point are the Irish FA and the Scottish FA and the Welsh FA going to do this where they've literally put football at the heart of what it is. And I guarantee if someone's sat here from these associations, the SFA, the FIA, we've done battles every single day. We're trying to get facilities. We're trying to get more coaches coming through. But there's that many distractions in people's lives now and different. It's not easy to do it, Roy, that's the thing. It's not easy to do it, but someone has to do something.

1:28:59It took England a long time to get to that academy at St George's. When did they do it 30, 40 years ago?

1:29:03Gary Neville: They tried that with Illicholz 34 years ago. It didn't quite work. But England, to be fair, have tried. And look, the FA take a lot. England are a lot richer country than Scotland and Ireland. And look, they've got the Wembley revenues, they get big crowds, they obviously get sponsorship, which is more because obviously there's... But in the last 20 years, the production of English technical players, the likes of Morgan Gibbs, White, Palmer, Foden, Bellingham, Rodgers, Eze, Madweki, Saka. We've produced more... You're talking about England coaches, but a lot of these lads are working under farm coaches.

1:29:32And Bellingham, they've gone abroad. Kane, he's gone to Bayern Munich. they're learning new experiences so when they turn up for an international football match you put yourself there as the England manager when we were at Ireland Steve Clarks with Scotland and you're watching your players come into your hotel and it's sometimes as simple as this when you're sitting there and you're watching Harry Cainwalk at your hotel they're bringing Spurs traits among the goals he's got you're bringing Bermuda traits you're bringing them into the building Bellingham walking the room you're looking going wow I think we have a chance of winning Scotland, Ireland Wales on this, you've got a bail, you're walking players in, coming in from the chat.

1:30:08My point is, they're bringing their traits to your international set.

1:30:11Gary Neville: Go back to the Irish FA, go back to, even the women's team with England, where Jill talks about her experiences of being, flying in sort of, what would be terrible sort of conditions, not having good hotels, not having good facilities. You had it with Ireland, obviously, in the World Cup, Roy. But my point is, now the women's team do get, you know, they're getting looked after a lot more. They've got a facility at St George's Park. So now they're winning because they've got, but I guarantee, if you spoke to the women's, the England manager the women's team I bet you there's some battles going on in the background that's probably there's always going to be there'll always be battles getting people into the ground you're getting it on it's so much better than we're you left a tournament because the standards were nowhere near the acceptable level of a country and the FAI and the Scottish FAI I think what Wright is saying the other day is when are they going to put football first and start to build these sort of centre of excellences and these coaching programmes and these facilities if you want to sit here all day and criticise the FAI I'll join in but they're also good people at these associations I'm not saying there isn't but that's my point but it's just ongoing battles it's politics it's common team members working for different councils that's your battles they obviously want Ireland to do of course they want the national team to do well but again I think we all do maybe sometimes we live in a different world we live in a bubble but sometimes you have to reflect and go particularly when we're talking about Scotland today there's a lot of people in the background doing massive work but there's challenges and they'll come down to money and England will have ongoing battles I don't think money's the answer for everything but I tell you what it's a big help if you can help get coaches these countries you go no we are a step ahead of your body and our kids are coming through Modric you look at all these players careers but they're all they're used to qualifying for tournaments under 16 huge 21 they're tournament trained players look I'm riffing here making it up I'd love to be interested Scotland is a good example in Ireland I love to know how many of these Scotland players have played under 21 tournaments under 18 tournaments where they're tournament ready.

1:32:01Gary Neville: But let's say, Roy, from now on, right, they're going to basically sort of a big investment into what will be 4G pitches up in Scotland because you need to make it after turf because of the traditions. And then you've got a massive investment into a centre of excellence. And let's say then they're going to fund, let's say, 40 coaches a year up in Scotland. No, no, fund 40 coaches to go and do the German pro licence, to go and do the Spanish pro licence, the Italian pro licence. I'm saying just... And giving them... are they doing the thing thousands of coaches 40 is not the answer I know but let's start with the top 40 coaches the prime example you mentioned Croatia I didn't bring up Croatia you look at their record of producing coaches yeah thousands yeah not 40 I know my point is not even 400 thousands start with 100 then or 150 coaches a year in Scotland and Ireland send them to the best pro licenses in the world and say look we just train you up and get the intelligence from other countries it's the start it's the start alright and I will finish on this so you're on about these coaches, send them on the pro license.

1:33:00Brilliant example. Brilliant example. Have you done your pro license? Yeah. How much did it cost? It cost a lot of money. It cost a lot of money. No, they have to fund it. They have to fund it. That's my point. But if you're on about thousands of coaches, that's hundreds and hundreds of millions. At some stage, where someone's got to... But where do you think they're going to produce... These countries have got... Someone's going to sacrifice something for it. These countries have got problems with the government trying to get funding. People are trying to get houses. Football is near the bottom of the pile.

1:33:24Totally understand. There's more important things. Hospitals, schools. And then you're going, and Scottish fans come and enjoy me. Send 40 coaches to Italy on a coaching badge if you want. We've got people who are in the streets.

1:33:33Gary Neville: If you're a government and you put physical well-being and PE at schools and sport at the bottom of your list not thinking it can help with anti-social behaviour, mental and physical health and well-being and all these outcomes, the NHS in England is overrun. The NHS in Scotland is overrun. If you don't think football and sport and physical activity is at the heart of that and inspiring the new generation through football or women's football, I think that to me is... Fantastic. You talk about England. I was in a dressing room 25 years ago, 30 years ago. All you ever spoke about were you scolding you when you came back from England.

1:34:05We get the best of the best. We did. Private jets, the best medical stuff. Absolutely, we did. Best hotel. England will be one of the best prepared teams in this World Cup. Absolutely. And what does that come down to?

1:34:15Gary Neville: It's money. Of course it's money. I know, but why don't the Scottish and Irish governments invest? They've got money. They've got pots of money. No, I don't think they have. I don't think they have. The Irish government... That's what I'm saying. That's all I was saying. The Republic of Ireland is... The Republic of Ireland... I know, but it's not a poor country. It's not a poor country of Ireland. Do you know what happens to all of us sometimes? We do. It happens to us. We're in a studio. Sometimes you don't live in the real world. We chat about... Oh, they've got to get hundreds of coaches. They've got to get pitches.

1:34:41My team in Ireland, Rockham, they're battling to stay alive.

1:34:46Gary Neville: Yeah. Survival. Lights. Do you know what? Some of these smaller clubs. My old team called Ramblers. I go back to the ground. It's like the same ground I left 30 years ago. I know it is, but the Republic of Ireland is a quite wealthy country right now. It's doing well economically. It's got challenges. Of course it's got challenges. But if you want to divert your funding into something, I wouldn't put football or sport at the bottom. Maybe not near the bottom. But there's other stuff, listen, there's other stuff more important than sports sometimes in life. And we sit here and go, the sport's like, all of a sudden today we're talking about Scotland's problems.

1:35:18Tomorrow we won't be talking about Scotland's problems, would we? No, absolutely. We'll be talking, let's go to Manhattan and go shopping. I'll make some field girls.

1:35:23Ian Wright: It's hard to make Scottish fans feel it's the morale that boosts the country. But what does it have to be when you're knocked out of a tournament? Because that's when you notice it more. But that's not right either, is it right either?

1:35:33Gary Neville: Roy, we're not sat here telling Scotland out to run that football. We're just asking questions off the back of disappointment. I get it. We're coming, in a sense, from a kind of a good place. I'd love if somebody was sitting there going, you don't know the half of it. Roy, I can imagine the challenges of getting funding, but it's priorities of funding. The Irish government or the Scottish government I've got to surely look at health and wellbeing outcomes through sport. As being a big fact, get more kids into sport. If you said to me, what would be the biggest advice I would give to parents up and down the country?

1:36:01Gary Neville: Give your children a sporting upbringing, because it'll keep them out of trouble, it'll keep them healthy, it'll keep them competitive, you'll learn about discipline, losing, winning. Friendship. Friendships. Of course. Absolutely.

1:36:11Roy Keane: Not about being the highest level, is it? I'm a preacher of that. You have somewhere to go to, you need coaching, you need someone to give you a lift to games. That's all part of sport. England's success the last few years, you go, England have done really well. A lot of it's on the back of Harry Kane. It's great if you have a world-class striker, then that can lift your country and carry you. Bales, Bales don't know about Wales. All of a sudden, Bales retires. What happened to Wales all of a sudden? Strange enough, they're not getting the results they used to be getting. Ireland had some really good players, a goal scorer.

1:36:37Robbie Keane helped the team for years. When you have a goal scorer, it does help. Scotland threw up for this tournament without a top-class striker. And if they had, they probably would have got that draw against Morocco. You wouldn't be sitting there worried about Aberdeen Academy. You wouldn't be.

1:36:50Gary Neville: But Wales, to be fair, produced Hughes and Rush. And they never qualified for tournaments. No, no, no. It was harder to qualify back then, Roy. You keep saying that, Gary. It was a lot harder, Roy. You keep saying that, Roy. Oh, my God, it was. You keep saying that.

1:37:00Roy Keane: When was Scotland's last World Cup, though? Back to 19th. So, that's what I mean. Like, what did we expect from this one, surely? It's a process. They've made the World Cup OK. They didn't get out of the group. The next one, they've got to then, obviously, look to get. It's the amount of time it's taken to get back as well, too. But they've done OK, haven't they? They're qualifying for the past three tournaments. Absolutely. Now, I agree, go back, what's the next step in making it better? But what happens in life over the last few years, whether it be football snobbery or we're all watching the brilliant Man City and everyone wants a bit more from their team, and Scotland's fans will be the same.

1:37:30Irish fans will be the same. Listen, going to all these pubs and having a sing-song is fantastic and they've been class. Ireland, the best, the best in the world. But there comes a point where they're looking going, listen, we love all that, but we want our team to just...

1:37:43Roy Keane: But does that point come this World Cup? Do you know what I mean? He's just crept in definitely the last few years a bit of, from what they've been watching on the TV and they're watching all this tippy-tap. Scotland gave up a couple of goals against Brazil. Guess what they were doing? Playing out from the back. No, that's another side to it. You go, hey Lance, we know you can play, but listen, we're under the cosh against Brazil. Did I think they might close you down? Yeah.

1:38:04Gary Neville: Anyway, that's what I'm talking about. If the Chief Executive or Chairman of the Scottish Fave would like to come on, stick to football, please come and sit with us and talk.

1:38:10Roy Keane: Are you going to pay for him to come to? Oh, absolutely. What I'm saying to you is,

1:38:14Gary Neville: come and challenge us in terms of, I'm sure there are massive challenges. Anyway, a very good section on Scotland. It's nice to talk about Scotland with a bit of passion. You're right, you only talk about these countries actually when something goes wrong, to be honest with you, or something goes massively well. Because when you're at a place like this,

1:38:27Ian Wright: that's when it's more polarised. That's when there's microscopes on it and you realise, well, why is this happening to me? Since 98, Scotland ain't been here. You know, you think, well, what's going on all that time? What are they doing? Why aren't Scotland there when the fans still want it so badly? Battling. Battling. But survive.

1:38:43Gary Neville: But I know that there's this thing like Scotland don't like England and Ireland don't like England and all that sort of thing but actually from an English perspective I genuinely want Scotland and it's better for us at tournaments as well I genuinely want Ireland Wales here I genuinely want them here not to say that I want to go ahead of England or anything I don't I want England to win I guarantee in the Euros in two years time hopefully obviously Ireland Wales and Northern all of you trying to qualify I guarantee if they qualify you go we've got a couple of young players coming through or one of our top players have stepped up it'll be it won't necessarily be going back to like academies and grassroots stuff we just produce one or two players at this it's timing and remember I told the history of the World Cup England a number of times didn't qualify for the World Cup and what was going on there so you might look at that Ireland the history will tell you but England didn't qualify in 94 that's not 60 years back I did a game earlier on in the tournament and it was with Ange and Ange obviously 100 year plan and he said they've got 100 year plan and I think no they're 35 foot but you look at the You look at the improvements of Japan in terms of their play.

1:39:46Gary Neville: They beat England up at Wembley in March, and you see the way they're developing their coaches, their game, and you think, OK, have the Scottish FA, have they got a 20-year plan? Have they got a 15-year plan? That's all I'm saying. What's the vision? What is the vision for the next 15 years of Scottish football to get to a point whereby infrastructure, coaches, players get to a higher level? What's helping Japan do that, do you reckon? Of course it'll be money, Roy, but it's priority of funding. Is the Irish government and the Scottish government, maybe the UK government?

1:40:11Ian Wright: They know how important sport is to them as well. is why they've got a 100 year plan they're not even doing it for themselves they're doing it for the people in a 100 years time yeah

1:40:18Gary Neville: that's what I'm saying what is the vision to be fair to England they did put I think a 20-25 year plan in place when they built St George's Park and it was I can't remember the name of the chair but they would have got funding wouldn't they obviously yeah of course I'm agreeing with you and they would have gone to them and said we do have a plan and we will start producing players and the women's team doing well and obviously that's good for the country and good for the economy of course but they're

1:40:41Roy Keane: they will have a plan though won't they they maybe just haven't shared it. Yeah, but if I'm the FAI

1:40:46Gary Neville: and I'm seeing Roy Keane sat here and I'm thinking, right, a 25-year vision for football, what does excellence look like and where do we want to get to? And how can we bring the great Irish players that are now in football that sort of what ex-players, how do we bring those minds together to create what would be a system of working for the next 25 years to get a centre of excellence, a coaching programme that's world-class? Have they tried that? That's what I'm saying. What are these people doing? They haven't even tried that. Yeah, to me it doesn't happen. So anyway, OK. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet.

1:41:19Gary Neville: Right, top three things to do in New York.

1:41:23Roy Keane: I'll tell you what I did once in New York. You're a fan of Friends. I went and did the tour, you know, where you go around the apartment and everything. It was the best thing I've ever done. Was it? Yeah. It was so good. Like, being in the actual apartment. Do you watch it?

1:41:36Gary Neville: No.

1:41:37Roy Keane: Oh. That's good. Rockefeller Center. I went to the... I don't think I've been to that. I've been. Top of the rock.

1:41:46Gary Neville: You go to the... It's quite interesting.

1:41:48Roy Keane: Yeah. And it's cheaper than paying for the Empire State Building. So you can go to the top.

1:41:52Gary Neville: I've been up there as well. Have you? And then the edge. Oh, there's... What's the walk that... Yeah. I need to do that. That's good. Highline. Highline. Highline. Yeah, I've not done that yet. Highline's great.

1:42:02Roy Keane: I'm scared of heights. No, it's not high, do you? It's not like... Well, it sounds, eh? It's just like... Just like the ground.

1:42:07Ian Wright: You just look at it. You can see it's brilliant.

1:42:09Gary Neville: Just pedestrianised, everything pedestrianised, brilliant. A question a lot of people have been asking, which could you throw further, a naan bread or a baguette?

1:42:18Roy Keane: A baguette, cos it's heavier than it would. How big's the baguette, though?

1:42:23Ian Wright: I could frisbee and naan.

1:42:27Roy Keane: Frisbee and naan, I thought that. I thought you said frisbee and naan.

1:42:31Gary Neville: Oh, I've got a room one-on-one, by the way. I was on a flight the other day, and a bloke had his feet out on a flight. Oh no. Don't tell me he had no socks on. No socks on.

1:42:40Ian Wright: Wow. Wow, I'd probably... Honestly, I like that. I don't quite say something. It's not hygienic, isn't it? Do you know what else I hate?

1:42:50Roy Keane: When someone's in front of you and the hairs come over the top of the thing, so the hair's like... On the back.

1:42:56Ian Wright: And I'm not bothered with... That's not bad. I just remembered. It's not right, that. No. No.

1:43:03Roy Keane: Are you a feet fan, though? Do you like feet? No, but... It's better for a feet, man. Ah, it's saved. Oh, here we go. Well done, everybody.

1:43:18I was in a gym the other day in a hotel. There was a guy down there and I said to him, says, can you teach me how to do the splits? He said, are you flexible? I said, I can't do Tuesdays.

1:43:33Gary Neville: This has been a Global and the Overlap production.

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