John McGinn: Responding to Roy, Villa’s Rebuild & Scotland’s Next Chapter | Stick to Football EP 146

0:00Hi, I'm Max Rushton, the host of The Guardian Football Weekly, alongside me, Barry Glendening, my co-host. Hey, Barry. Hello. Now, although every American found us during the World Cup, for the two that didn't, what can they expect? Found us and fell in love with us, Max. They can expect three episodes each week of occasionally insightful analysis covering the Premier League, Champions League and beyond. Football Weekly is back. Watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Nick, co-host of The Best One Yet. You optimize your workouts, your portfolios, and that rando startup idea that hit you in the middle of the shower.

0:32But if you're not hydrated, you're already playing catch-up. So we keep a stash of Liquid IV in our studio. One stick mixed into 16 ounces of water is clinically demonstrated to hydrate faster than water alone with three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients. Whether you're traveling, exercising, or podcasting, the best business news ever, Liquid IV makes it easy to stay hydrated wherever life takes you. So shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV hydration that goes wherever life takes you. I'm not 18 anymore. I'm working, raising two kids, and I have little free time.

1:03That's why I chose University of Phoenix. I take one class at a time and log in on my schedule. University of Phoenix, built for real life. Get started at phoenix.edu.

1:17First in, last out. First in, last out was like when I used to be a manager and a player. Last in and forced out. Oh yes, a bit of chocolate. We still have a cup of tea on this one? Oh, sorry, yeah, yeah. Oh, is this our regret? That was decaf. Oh, them jellies are nice again.

1:42I had very little chocolate in America, didn't I? Yeah. Because obviously you don't get proper cannabis. Yeah, I didn't like the chocolate there. The milkshake was... I've stopped on the chocolate. Have you? Yeah. milkshake, I'm struggling. Even now, I'm still having a milkshake when I can now. Went out with the girls, went pictures. I had two watching Spider-Man. Two milkshakes. Because I had a strawberry one and my daughter had a figure. And so I said, let me try one of them Oreo ones. I've sort of seen Oreo, shouldn't be eating Oreo. Oh, sweet. I tasted her one. I tried two. I felt terrible.

2:22I feel like you can eat sweets at this time. Yeah, but that's the thing. I've kind of cut down a lot of sugar. I've cut a lot of sugar. Oh, have you? Yeah. Mine was when I did one of them well-man things about, I don't know, what's going on after Christmas? Mine come back high sugar. Did it? Yeah. We were just sitting chatting. We've missed the studio so much. You're late, Gary. What? You're late. No, I was just... See, I can't stop but eat these now, do you? I was just saying, we had no chocolate in the World Cup, did we? Yeah, you did. No, I'm on it in general. We had it on the podcast. What were the good ones?

2:54What were the good ones?

2:54Gary Neville: No, there wasn't. There was only that American chocolate. Yeah. Hershey's? No. That's not as good. Bemi? We do chocolate good. We do chocolate well. We do chocolate good. Have you seen the video of Tony Mowbray? Right, let's start the episode. We've already started. What happened? Yeah, let's go. You know all these fucking things. You've got to do top five. Tony Mowbray picking his top five chocolate bars. Hilarious. Was it good? Yeah, really good. But going into real detail, he's not just going bum-bob. He's like, hmm. That one. I'm really liking me picnics at the moment. He produces a star bar.

3:27That's a great chocolate. Oh, star bar. That's your star bar. I love that. My favourite.

3:30Gary Neville: Is this the only current player we've ever had on? Is this the first current player we've ever had on? No, Caspar Schmeichel was technically playing for Celtic when he came on. How old's John? 31. How old's John? I feel like he's been around here just. He's made the most of his tavern, if you know what I mean. I mean that in the nicest way. He's 31. 31. one. But the thing with him is he doesn't look like he's slowing up. He looks like still bang on it. Yeah. There's times where he can look stocky. Massive. He's a bit like my shape, innit? I bet he's not, though, when you meet him. He's got that funny runner, isn't he?

4:08Gary Neville: He's my shape, innit? You know what I mean? It's like... Backside. I bet when you meet him, though, he won't be. I think sometimes when you... Do you not think that with people? No, but he'll be ripped. Yeah. He'll be ripped. Do you know what blew my mind? I think it was actually the first Friday Night Football of one season and I saw Jack Grealish's calves. Yeah, in real life. Oh, in real life. Did you fall in love? I like to behold. They're massive. I couldn't believe it. Massive. I saw them again when he was warming up the other day. It's abnormal. They're abnormal. And Justin, when the players walk past you now, I think, are they bigger than they used to be?

4:41Gary Neville: They look bigger. Do you think? Players are bigger. I think so. Everyone's like six foot three. Massive. I'm not sure I can play centre-back now. Every centre-back looks... Yeah, massive. How tall are you? Massive. Just under six. I mean, it's Martin's place, doesn't it, I suppose? But, I mean, everyone feels like a good 6 '3". Not just like a normal size. You know, I saw when I was over in Miami, it was Morgan Rodgers. He's massive. Is he? Is he big? I was looking at Kobe. Kobe Mano. Kobe's tall. You'd think he'd be little, wasn't he? He's four for three. He was like, he was hitting to me. He was here.

5:12He was here. Yes, he was here. I was like that. You were sitting down, weren't you? Right. to the point where I said Jesus how big you guys they look so big so tall Rodgers was that big you know I was like like that not height but be standing in the tunnel next to Dennis Bergkamp I thought he was an amazing player but I thought he'd be like that yeah his dance now was big you know like just like that's what I always think about like but some lads who get bigger with their kits on that's strange sometimes the lads put a certain football kit on you go wow I had Kenman Jones at Sunderland yeah but when he put the kit on

5:47Gary Neville: should he get bigger? Yeah. Anthony Gordon's tall. Isn't he? He's quite tall, wasn't he? He's taller than I expected. He's got to be, what, six foot more? Rashford's tall. Marcus Rashford's tall. Yeah.

6:04He's got to keep dropping. He's got to go out, isn't he? He's got back with a good attitude, though.

6:08Gary Neville: We have to give credit where it's too. Do you know, one of the funniest things ever... He can make up with his own coaching team. Cara said that Lissandro Martins was obviously, you know, he was basically too small to play in the Premier League and he came and did interviews at the end of a game. It's all the carol. It's not even that small. It's not even that small. It's not even that small. No. No, but he was big. He was big. That's what he said on here. You're not even that small, are you? What is that? Just because he's with these massive... Studs. John McGinn's going to walk in now. He had.

6:43No, he's bigger. the biggest team one of the biggest teams ever in the Premier League Arsenal come back no, Martin Anilis manager Aston Villa oh my god Aston Villa I know what you're saying Aston Villa

6:56Gary Neville: but Villa was bigger Villa were the team of giants prior Walsh prior do you want to go through the Aston Villa team yes oh they were a team of giants descender halves the striker the big Norwegian they were huge descender halves I know you say big I mean, that's six foot five. What? He was just like the full-backs. Even his full-backs were six foot... Martin's team at Villa. The last team? Biggest team ever. It was Martial up front. So you'd have Ian Martial, you'd have... Ian Martial, Walsh, Pryor, Heskey. They were fucking giants. Honestly, they had Guppy and... Heskey. Moussa Heskey up through the middle.

7:34Gary Neville: But the three centre-halves and the two-foot... Oh, my God. Now, Villa. Can we find out? Matt Elliott. Matt Elliott. Matt Elliott. Get the Villa team when Martin was manager. The team, even the full-backs. No, Martin's. No, Roy Martin's Leicester team, I'm telling you, they were brutal. No, I'm telling you, the Villa team, I'll argue with you all, and even the Celtic team where you'd stand bagger, Bobo Ball, remember Big Bobo? I signed, no, he came down for a chat with me with his manager, so I'm the maddest chat ever. Bobo came down. All these stats with him. Oh, he pulled him? He pulled him, so I think he was over at clubs, he came down, he went, yeah, that's wrong.

8:07No, no, information, I get my office, so I went, so what's the information it's all information about me about me the manager he went I think we could walk well together because I've studied you all this stuff so he came down chatting about money and I went look Bob obviously I've just come down for a chat and he went yeah and he was telling me what he wanted and I went no this is general he wouldn't need the office I said I went back on a train I was looking he's sitting in my office I was going to check this is what it's saying here Brad Fiedel Martin Loreson Olive Melberg Carlos Cruella Richard Dunn James Collins Stephen Warnock Gareth Barry Stylian Petroff James Milner Ashley Young Stuart Downing John Carruth Go for his Leicester team

8:49Gary Neville: Go for Martin's Leicester team Emil Heskey Hey That's the biggest team Martin's Leicester team Martin's Leicester team It was the Honestly I remember them coming up for corners I remember thinking We have no chance No it is Honestly It's the only time I'll argue with you all No that Villa team were bigger Nev That Villa team were huge Who's like the Player that you've played up against That was the hardest Just, like, physically? Do you know what? Shit. I remember at Highbury, and it was Boldy Adams were centre-backs, and they had... Winterburn? No, because I don't think Vieira was there, though.

9:19You played against Celtic, but was Martin against Celtic? Big John Hartson was a handful. Yeah. Did he always, like... Did he beat Blackburn as well that year? Hartson was up for Arsenal. Did he always want big players? John Hartson was a handful, wasn't he? John Hartson. He scored a couple for Coventry. Was he at Coventry? I played against John Hartson. So I got Leicester here now.

9:36Gary Neville: That was a horrible experience, though. Was it? Oh, my God. The Leicester lads, yeah. Go on. The Leicester lads, go on. So it's Tim Flowers, Frank Sinclair, Gary Target, Steve Walsh, Muzzy Izzet, Neil Lennon, Stan Collymore, Darren Edo, Steve Guppy. That's not the team. That's not the team. That's the gist of it. Notwithstanding it. That's not the team. No, I know. But there's going to be a yard one. Exactly. Yeah, but that's not the team. That don't look like a two. That doesn't sound like a two. It was prior Walsh, Elliot, Marshall. We know that. That's it. No, no, no. Honestly, I'm telling you.

10:05Gary Neville: Heskey. Heskey was left wing on me. If Heskey played for Villa back... He was the smallest player for Villa with Martin's group that time. Does Martin like... Does he recruit big players? I guess. Yeah, I would. No, but it's all his thing. I would. Would you? Particularly centre-halves. He wants big, strong boys. Like, big, big. He could head it. And like the big target man. Yeah. Yeah, Steve Wall. Hi, John. There we are. Hi, John. Hi, the Villa. Look at the sight. I told you how big he is. He's not as tall as you are. Johnny, how are you? They're always taller than you think. On the pitch, you look stocky.

10:42I know. Johnny, I had to hit you on the bar. I had to. Good to see you. I am. He's solid. He's solid. They're all massive. Players now. We're just talking about players. Players being taller than you think. You wait to see a new keeper. Who's that? There's a Japanese guy, Suzuki. He's an absolute machine. Is he? Is he? I'm going to take my top off next day.

11:09Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+. The training poles kind of bounced up at him, hit him in the chin. He was a big joker and he's went, hiya! In my leg, 7.7 centimetres in, hit the bone and back out. Morning of the game, we watched the other team for about an hour, another 10 minutes. I'm Dave again. I know I still run weird, but I used to run as if I was like, dragging a shovel. We always used to walk past each other. going to the pie stall. I keep talking about food. Most underrated teammate? Ezra Concer. Next teammate.

11:50Gary Neville: John, it's brilliant to have you on. Yeah. And the reason you're on it came about out of a... The compliment I gave you. John, you're the second pub player to be on Stick to Football. I'm the first. I like the pub from time to time but I didn't mind it I genuinely didn't didn't mind it it wasn't that bad it was a nice retort people just get in a tizzy over things and to be honest he's right when I have a stinker when I have a stinker but aye I wasn't too bad and I was the same I was the same if I had a bad game I looked fucking dreadful but that was my point and I always think footballers these days like to react to it like the celebrations fingers in the ear and cut me in here.

12:32But then it just sets you up for the next fall. Because the next fall is always coming. So just deal with it. I've got to ask you about the mask handy thing. I can't. Can you do it? Oh, aye, aye. My nephew, Jack, he has really poor vision. Right. And he needs to wear his goggles to play football and he would refuse to do it. Right. And it was before the first Euros were qualified. I said, right, I'll make a deal. If I score, I'll do the celebration. So when they're in the green screen, and they said, oh, what celebration you got? So I'd done it, but I never scored in the Euros. But then I started doing it, and the traction it's got for parents across the world has been classic.

13:13Because people come and say, oh, you've helped my kid wear glasses, you didn't want to wear them. But it's just stuck now. Nice. I just stick with it and keep going, mate.

13:23Gary Neville: John, obviously the World Cup, we've just been in the World Cup, it seems like quite a bit ago now, but how was the summer? What did you do in the summer? I didn't watch many of the games after I was sort of fed up with it because I was disappointed I just wanted to go at least one step further and then when you reflect after it could we have done better? Of course we could have but what a stinking group when you reflect after it to beat Haiti was expected but it was a difficult game we didn't play well and we crawled over the line but then to get something off Morocco and Brazil you need to start the game well and we didn't in either game the Morocco one we probably could have nicked a 1-1 maybe a penalty on another day but it was an amazing experience as a Scottish player back on the biggest stage but after it I went to Caribbean for a week and ate my body weight and carbs and a few pints and then I'd done a road trip in Canada oh brilliant so something a wee bit different I thought what kind of car what was you driving?

14:30they promised us a luxury SUV but it was a shocker no but it was good I started at Calgary up to Banff Lake Louise Jasper beautiful they have been there amazing it was a good experience I thought something different this summer and then I done a few days training in Vancouver before I came back so it was a good break the boss is good for days off so he's how long did he give you in the end? I think it was like three and a half Four weeks. Similar to... He's been criticised for what he gave Conte, Martinez and Watkins. Giving him too long, you mean? Aye, giving him too long. He's been criticised for it.

15:09Because he missed the Super Cup game, is that what it was? Aye, so he was getting pelters for it because all their players were back. But he's quite... As soon as you're out, minimum three and a half weeks. Because I think he realises how tough it is to play under him every day. You need a rest. So he's good at giving us a break. But I don't like giving him too long. because I would go too fat. There are times in your kit where you look stocky, but you look million dollars there. No, I'm in much better. Steven Gerrard completely changed my thinking of it. I was probably too much the other way when he was the gaffer.

15:46I was as lean as I've ever been. And I was just getting flung about. So I probably went too far the other way. But there was changes I had to make in my life and he was the main guy for that, really.

15:59Gary Neville: When you say changes, what were you doing that wasn't right that you started to do now that is right? Just eating every day. Eating the right food, do you mean? So now I've got a chef. Where I'm from, the first time I said to my mum, Mum, I've got a chef. What do you mean you've got a chef? What do you mean you've got a chef? And it wasn't about being... Flash off. Flash off. It wasn't about that. it was about changing habits and now my habits are if I've got a chocolate digestive in the house I eat it if it's not in the house I don't eat it so I don't actually snack but I've got a really good chef and Gerard said listen you've got everything, power, fitness, speed if you want to take the next jump you need to improve your nutrition and I did but I probably went too far the other way so everyday fat club and it started to become a thing it was consuming me so I did everything I could but now I've got the balance right I'm not going to be six pack or I'm not going to be the same as all the rest of the Premier League players but I'm probably in the best shape now than I've ever been I do feel like with the body fat because they used to try and get us all at the same weight and I'd be like some players who lost weight would lose their power and everything else and I don't believe in that because everyone's different, aren't they?

17:25I did. What you're talking about there, when I got to age 30, I just had this paranoia that, like, you know, everyone says you're over 30. And I probably, what you're talking about there, I went and seen, like, the club doctor and went, I want to eat exactly what I should eat. And what they were saying at the time was it's not about having three big meals. You should almost have five smaller meals. And it was eat this, eat. And I was doing it properly. And what you're saying there, I felt like I'd lost something physically. so even for me I wasn't overweight but there was something I lost power wise so I was a bit like and it all because I was over 30 just in my head about being 30 It ruins the last couple of weeks of your holiday as well because you can't relax players nowadays just train they don't stop I reckon Luka Dini probably had about two days off it's just mentality it's just to train and you just end up behind so you need to try and get a balance right but that's the physical side John isn't it again with your manager being smart it's the mental side of it that you need a break go back to the manager out, but Brian Clough were ahead of their times because they were saying they loved them days off.

18:27Because it's not just the physical side, it's the mental side to switch off. Particularly when you've had a long season, and of course you'd probably be a disappointment at the World Cup.

18:34Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+. Gary, do you know what I've been watching recently? What? The Shards on Disney+. Oh, what's that like? It's really quite good, actually. It's a kind of psychological thriller based on a Brett Easton Ellis novel. Do you know Brett Easton Ellis? No. Is it complicated? No. It's easy for people like me to read. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll be fine with it. Scary? Yes. It's basically about, there's a serial killer on the loose. It's set with kids who are in the last year of high school. It's set in the 80s. Oh. So it's very much like, if you think about it as Berry, but in America, and you've got these very, very kind of privileged kids in this kind of elite.

19:18Gary Neville: And the serial killer wandering around. And they're trying to find out. And they think, yeah, They're not sure if it's one of them. There's a new kid comes into town. And there's police in there trying to find them, is there, or detect them? Well, the kids are trying to solve it as well, so it's good. I love them box sets. It's good. Honestly, you watch the first one and you're like, hang on a second, who is doing it? Cindy Crawford's daughter, isn't it? Her name is Kaya Gerber. Richard Gere's son is in it. And Evan Rachel Wood. Is it out all at once? No, it's staggered. So there's a few out now, so you get in there, you get hooked, and then you kind of come back.

19:48Gary Neville: So are you one of those people that watches it one by one? I tend to wait to the end, me and Binge, yeah. Go for it all at once. No, no, I've started this, so each week now I'm just... Regulars clockwork. Do you know what I always think about these psychological thrillers, and I've watched a few recently, is how clever the writers are of these things, now they bring it all together at the end. You've got to be like... A bit of a genius, haven't you, up here? You've got to be able to connect the star, each scene. To make a show for Disney +, you do have to be a bit of a genius. So it's also produced by Ryan Murphy, who produced American Horror Story and Glee.

20:22If there was a killer in the stick-to-football world... Are you asking me to ask this question? I am here! If there was a killer in the stick-to-football universe, do you think you would work out who it was? Yeah.

20:33Gary Neville: Sorry, I mean, I mean... It's Cara, isn't it? Corporate number one, it means. Yeah, straight away. Who's done it? Cara. Watch The Shards, new and exclusive Disney+. Excellent. Honestly, it's top draw.

20:53Gary Neville: Going back to the World Cup, you had that... We were sort of like, we joked about it a little bit in the end, but it must have been horrible, because it was almost like you couldn't go home for like five or six days and you're waiting, but knowing when you're out, how was that at that time? Because we were like, are Scotland home yet? Because it just kept going on, didn't it? It was painful, really painful, because you know you're going to every day, every result. Were you training at that time? I had to train. Wow. I had to train. which was brutal. Because normally in every other tournament, the way they've changed the rule, three points would have probably been enough.

21:27So you're waiting and then all the results start going against you and you go, right, you start supporting the teams that can give you a higher percentage because it was impossible for us to qualify. And then on the morning we were leaving, the drug testers turned up. Oh, no. So you're going, oh, come on, have a bit of sympathy. Wasn't it, we weren't on drugs, just... That's clear. But that was just rubbing salt in the wind. You just want to go home. And then some of the players went back to Scotland, but most stayed away and just got a break. What do you think about the manager going? I know Steve Clarke through, he coached at Liverpool when Kenny was the manager.

22:06And he'd had a little bit of criticism in the tournament, I would imagine, maybe the way you set up or the results, that's the nature of being a manager. I almost felt like he'd made the decision too quick. I mean, it's his job, it is. I just thought, oh, he's done such a great job. And he'd almost get home for a few weeks and let him settle down. I don't know, obviously it's difficult for you to say that, but I was thinking he's done such a great job there. And he has had a little bit of criticism, probably stung him a little bit. And was it the next day he announced? No, no, it was a couple of days after.

22:36It felt quick to me. It was his call. It was actually quite emotional when he said it. We kind of got into a room. Craig Gordon said he's retired. And then the gaffer said it's time for a change. but three tournaments out of four in the qualifying campaigns we weren't the blown teams away we were winning by one or two goals and before he arrived we were shipping too many goals so his mantra was defend better make us harder to beat and build from there and I think the thing we struggled with after that when players were getting older the squad wasn't really evolving we went from keeping clean sheets and nicking games to then not scoring goals and giving goals away.

23:21So I think he's probably felt, right, how do I take this group forward? And he eventually said he's needed a fresh voice and a fresh change. So a lot of respect to him for that. But what he's given us as a country and a group has been special. Because we were so long away from tournaments and then it's become the norm. Now, granted, being rubbish at the tournaments has become slightly the norm, but we can only try and change that next. I think he's done a brilliant job. People make decisions, Jamie, you said make decisions. But I think sometimes you make your best decisions that way as well. Don't you?

23:55I admire people like that. When you know, you know. When you know, sometimes you make your best decisions. When you are emotional, you don't need to go home for two or three weeks and speak to 20 people. You know if you've took the players as far as you think you have, even though you've done an amazing job, absolutely brilliant. But maybe the players... You probably had the idea before. Yeah, I would have thought so, yeah. Maybe if they got out of the group, but it might have obviously changed his... No, I think it would have been... He kind of said that if I felt like we'd done something no Scotland team's ever done before.

24:22It's a completely different story, but he's also... He said, I need some time with my grandkids as well.

24:28Gary Neville: Do you think that five days where you were waiting, do you think that had an impact on his decision? Because that was like waiting. It was horrible, wasn't it? It was horrible, but I think he had a couple of discussions with Robbo. the two of them Robbo's frankly on back as well he's good like that if he asked me I'd have said stay just but he knows Robbo said do one I'm a people pleaser sad I've been like no no no it's fine we'll sort it next time Robbo would have probably said we'll need to make some changes he wouldn't have he wouldn't have been anything other than honest and the gaffer would have been honest with him so then it got to the Friday I think it was when thankfully we eventually put out that's when he said and he just says I've got a lot of belief in the group but I've got so much more to offer and I'll watch as a fan You mentioned Andy Robertson is it nine years of age you both played you've known him for that long Aye he so it was actually probably when Roy was playing for Celtic I'm not sure I made your games but it was in the main stand at Celtic Park we always used to walk past each other going to the the pie stall I keep talking about food

25:54the only advice I don't have I've not really got a sweet tooth but no he played for Celtic and I played for St Mirren so we've played against each other same age group 1994 and we always used to have a wee fight because he was determined player I was determined I was tiny Tiny until I was like 17. And we both had challenging sort of spells. I was at a club that gave me time to grow. He was at a club that didn't give him time to grow. He's at one of the biggest clubs, so they just thought he wasn't good enough. He was small as well, right? Aye, he's smallish. Aye, really, really thin. But he's still the same.

26:34He's still fit as a fiddle and still the same body shape. but then he went to Queen's Park and you play against him at Queen's Park and you could never envisage that sort of career but he then went from any seat there to ball boy because the young players at Celtic would end up ball boys and I was jealous because Celtic Rangers always used to try and get me when I was younger and my mum and dad were always pretty good and say nah nah you're fine there, be happy, enjoy it He wouldn't let you go to Celtic and Rangers? Nah, nah, I remember my... It was a big call that especially when everyone in our family is a Celtic fan so mum and dad went to meet Tommy Burns at Celtic when we were young I think we were 11, 12 but my two brothers had already been released from Celtic so I don't think they wanted that same experience and hurt and they knew I would take long to grow and develop so they said no they took the decision out of my hands and it was probably the right decision I wouldn't have got the time to grow at Celtic I just wouldn't there's too many players that want to sign there in St Mirren to be fair to them they just gave me the time to develop How old were you when you got into the team the St Mirren team?

27:48It was a few days after my team's birthday five And you filled out by then obviously? I had I still wasn't that fit I couldn't really get fit Craig Sampson the keeper used to beat me on the bleep test whereas now I find that easy the bleep test but back then I used to struggle I used to run I know I still run weird but I used to run as if I was like dragging a shovel and it was the truth and then we used to do running at the cricket club in Paisley and country parks and I'd always be last and then a few injuries happened in the team and I used to break through and I remember my debut against Celtic I think it was 5-0 we lost but what a day man I was cheezer 10 minutes no it was at St Mirren but I got 10 minutes managed to do pretty well and from there just was involved most weeks to be honest what position are you then what position are you playing at that age left mid sort of inside tucking in a little bit aye but then Kenny McLean got injured I think and then I went to 6 so I remember playing against Winiamma my 5th start in Hamden absolutely breaking it and that's when I started to realise now I'm ready to play against these players.

29:11It was a great place to learn. I learned a lot of things that helped me now as a captain at St Mirren. Just a really grounded club, disciplined. So for the first 20, 25 games, I would play the game, but have to litter pick at sight. We were probably the last of the real apprenticeships. So I was picking tune gum off the guys that were saying, yeah, you're rubbish, and they're always supported. But looking back now, it was the best thing that ever happened because you just kept your feet on the ground. Now they don't produce as many, St Mirren, but through the years they've produced a lot of young players.

29:53Tommy Craig, you remember Tommy Craig? I've got to thank him because he gave me a chance when probably not many managers or assistant coaches were there. believed in me. Yeah, but you took the chance, remember? A lot of players get a chance. You've still got a taker. I think Stevie Thompson and Jim Goodwin, they were really good with me. They were experienced pros at the time and they said, it's your jersey, keep it. And I hadn't really thought about it until then. And I thought, aye, that's a good point. So just try and be better than your teammates, first and foremost, and then try and be better than your opponent to keep it.

30:26That's stayed with me forever. Is that where everybody always speaks about you and says how humble and grounded you are? does that come from your parents? I think I read in an interview that Gordon Strachan said that he's seen you helping out with the kit and that was when he was like I want him in my team but is that something that comes from your parents? I would say a mix but also us at Mirren Youth Coaches as well we would all have to take the cones in and take the mannequins in to be honest my parents were always the same never put any pressure on us to be footballers, never my mum was a netballer so she she loves the Neville family so she played for Scotland at netball really old school hardy woman never gives us any medicine when we were younger you were sick no paracetamol I didn't know what paracetamol was until I was 17 but so supportive as well if you had a good game bad game they weren't they I find it sad seeing parents now in the car shout at their kids they want their kids to be footballers for them before them themselves.

31:34But then the mixture of that where I'm brought up Clibank if you're a big time Charlie you just get reminded and brought back down to earth and then obviously the coaches at St Mirren. Because I think when I first went into the Scotland set up it was a total gesture really. So I was basically kit man because I was playing for the first team they had to put me in. But all the Celtic Rangers boys they were all starting. in the game so essentially I was the kit man but Gordon Strachan from there believed in me and chucked me in

32:09Gary Neville: You've got a rich family history with Celtic obviously you mentioned the fans but was it your grandfather was the chairman of the club? He was the chairman of Celtic How have you never gone to Celtic? Because there's a moment isn't there when you're leaving Hibs where I think a villa come in for you I think and Celtic come in for you and you think that's the natural move isn't it to go to Celtic at that point and that doesn't happen no I think the irony is if he wasn't my grandpa and I wasn't a Celtic fan I probably would be a Celtic player why has that stopped you then? I don't know I think they felt because I was a Celtic fan it would just happen yeah and nobody else would come in and Hibs would crumble but Hibs were amazing at the time they said we're not going to stand in your way we know you want to be a Celtic player but they need to pay us what you're worth so I gave them my word that alright that's fine you won't stand in my way but I'll wait until they pay what I'm worth and it never ever got there what was that number?

33:19I can't remember exactly I think it was 2 or 3 million at the time and I think they bid a few times they actually phoned my grandpa to try and influence me at the time but he had a good relationship with both sides he trusted me and my agent and he said listen nothing to do with me if you've got the money pay the money and generally play for Celtic but I think that was just another tactic and then it just went on and on it actually went on for months I met Brendan I was desperate to go to Celtic everyone at Hibs knew I was desperate to go and they were absolutely first class so I remember playing in the Faroe Islands and I was driving to the game and I spoke to my agent who's still my agent now he'd been told you're not playing in the game because you'll be cup tied for Europe so I was like right fine Neil Lennon knew about this the Hibs directors knew about this and I was on the pitch checking the pitch even though it was an Astro pitch in the Faroe Islands it was a game for Renevic we'll never forget it and the Hibs guys were flapping they said no bid they've no bid so in my head my head's fried I thought so Neil Lennon said what do you want to do we support you do you want to play or not and I says I'll play so I just played the game managed to score that night and then I think I signed for Villa 10 days later so that just came from nowhere Villa phoned I think a week before their takeover and said listen we're interested but we need to get taken over and it's the same owners now but they got the takeover and in a day I think it was done to Villa What was the fee to Villa in the end?

35:13I think it was either 2.5 or 3 I'm not but they just right away we want you and it wasn't easy for them Steve Bruce so why were Celtic dragging their heels what was happening there I mean they've they've done that of course they've done it with quite a few players absolutely tell me about it I think if I was if I wasn't Scottish if I wasn't a Celtic fan if they thought a team would come in they probably would have just done it but I don't think they believed my agent at the time when he said if they're going to take over they're coming in I think they thought it was a bluff for more money or anything like that he's taken you for granted really haven't he a bit which at the time I couldn't quite understand because I'm like right I'm chomping at the bit to come and compete here because at the time when I met Brendan they had a formidable midfield trying to think exactly who was there and Cham Cal McGregor Bruni all these guys at the top of the game and he said you'll have to come in and compete but you back yourself you think aye aye I'll come in and I was excited to go there but then Steve Bruce called and said get on a flight with a grade of fee so I was at the Edinburgh Festival I don't know if you've ever been to the Edinburgh Festival so for a month in Edinburgh it's carnage you weren't there for the whole month were you no I was still I was still living there so I'm walking up and doing the Royal Mile with my family and my agent calls and says Villa with a grade of fee you need to go on a plane and did that rock your boat sorry was Villa was that rock on your boat like as much as you thought Celtic would have been?

36:53No, not at all. Not at all. I didn't dream about playing for Villa. Right, that's what I mean, but when it happened, were you thinking, do you know what, Villa's got a nice ring to it? No. No. And then, we were in the airport, Villa were playing Hull in the first game of the championship season and it was a flyby at the time. Easyjet didn't fly to Birmingham at the time. So fly maybe, we used to call them. Sponsor of the show. Sorry about that. Are they still going? I don't think they're still going there. No, but they always used to cancel or delay. So we're sat in the airport. Me, my mum and dad, I think, were there.

37:32And David, we're in there. No, David's meeting us down there. Is that your agent? Aye, aye. So the plane was delayed for like three, four hours. So we were like, right, this is fate. This is going to get cancelled. But I'm watching Villa playing the hull, thinking I'm no signing for Villa. I'm just going to go down and have a look. and then once I landed that was me they pushed the boat out made an effort it was as if I felt like oh they really want me yeah they opened Villa Park at night they said they know I've got a big family they said here's box number 7 number 7 jersey you're the man we want to to come in and that was it signed done isn't that still important to make you feel really wanted I know the money comes into the course but for a club to say listen you're the man fantastic I've got a bone to pick to Steve Bruce though because he claims we got to play me and my dad with a pro at the Belfry but we didn't play with a pro we got nine holes just me and my dad and the other no but he was he was brilliant he just said listen you've got to come to England we want you here you're going to be a big player for us we need to get Villa back to the the Premier League and to be fair the first week I started and just never looked back This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+.

38:55Hi, Pod fans. Max here. Barry's here too. Hello. And now the Premier League is back, Barry, meaning we'll be providing incredibly astute analysis three times a week wherever you get your podcasts. Barry, with the remaining 10 seconds of this advert, can you provide some astute analysis? I think Arsenal are going to win the Premier League. And there you are. For more hot takes like that, watch or listen to Football Weekly wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jack Cravici, Kramer host of The Best One Yet. At T-Boy, we're always talking about small decisions that can have an outsized impact. One of the simplest is staying hydrated.

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39:50Gary Neville: Well nobody managed to get all six right last weekend Which means the super six million pounds jackpot is still up for grabs That's right the jackpot is still sitting at one million pounds And it stays there until someone wins it It's completely free to play Just predict the scores of six football matches Get them all right and that one million pounds could be yours 18 plus TNCs apply

40:17When you think about your journey there, I know it's a different manager now, you and I, Emery, but you think since you've joined the club and there's other players there, but you've gone from sort of the Championship to winning a European trophy. And we always talk about players, I think you mentioned before, like what Cantona does to sort of change the fortunes of Man United or players at certain clubs that take you to a trophy. You know, you've gone there in the Championship and still involved in a European trophy. I mean Villa wouldn't have even been dreaming about in the Championship maybe a bit of a yo-yo club hoping to get into the Premier League and you see where you're at now It's amazing and it does fill me with pride but it's also a miracle at the same time the promotion season we were like 13th and I'll forget Kev McDonald do you remember Kev from Villa he was a caretaker manager after Steve Bruce got sacked Wheeler missed the penalty that night Steve Bruce got sacked in the morning and we were 3-0 down at Millwall or Wigan I can't remember and then Dean Smith came in and we went on this mental run snuck into the playoffs at the last minute and got promoted in the final and then the next season stay up by goal difference so parts of the journey have also been luck but it's still been crazy after that to be honest Do you see yourself

41:36Gary Neville: staying at Villa for the rest of your careers? I mean you're captain now you're so settled there you've built You only end up at Celtic, could you? That's if there's any players left. It seems as if everyone's leaving. Well, I think I've got two years left. I was thinking that today when I was warming up. Have I got one or two years left? I can't even remember. I'm happy, though, because every year it seems to be more exciting back in the Champions League this year. As long as I feel like I've been lucky in my career to always be starting or starting or kind of a main player in the team. When I feel I can stop helping the team by starting or being a bit part player, I'd have to see how I handle that, to be honest.

42:22But I'm loving it. I enjoy it. Even when you're seeing players like leaving around you? I'm used to it, to be honest. It's happened for good reasons and bad. This season, for good reasons more than bad, the players have been absolutely brilliant we've probably been lucky to hang on to them for such a length of time and with the rules we can go into that until the cows come on but the rules restrict you and you need to sell you need to trade to try and kick Aston Villa on because there is going to be an Aston Villa after me and after Unai Emery and you need to make it sustainable to try and compete it isn't easy to compete but we're used to the change we are actually used to the madness and the manager, he's got this way about him I don't know how he does it he'll be the last person to complain about the players leaving and it just kind of filters through when you start getting hearing excuses from the manager you start to moan about it yourself but he'll just go, right, this is our squad now this is how I see us, Aston Villa 2.0 and he'll just work on trying to make us the best What is his thing?

43:34Because when I think of the Premier League, it's fair to say Aston Villa are not one of the absolute elite or the biggest clubs in the country, huge football club. But I would put him alongside any manager in the Premier League, maybe even top, now that Pep's gone, when you think of his whole career and what he's done in the Europa League and the experiences he's had. What is it about him? Because even when I was watching you in the Super Cup, I know it was one game, you didn't have some of your players back, you've obviously lost some players. and the stages in that game against Paris Saint-Germain you think Ville's going to win this you know what I mean it's just every year he's losing players he's just produced again what is the ingredient that he's got?

44:15He's just got a burning enthusiasm and desire to be the best I think he I think other managers drive him on he might never come out and fully say it but I think deep down in his head I think he thinks he'll never say it but I think he thinks he's elite and he is and he if we lose him it's a different story I'm still positive about the season but we need to make sure we keep hold of the manager he just constantly improves players if they want to be improved we've had players that he's given chance after chance to that don't want to improve but every single day 8 o 'clock to 8 at night just watching game after game or player after player just an obsession to win you said before I think when you come in about having time off with the manager you need to take it because it's intense so you're talking physically or mentally just mentally just mentally meetings and repetition the meetings are mental absolutely mental there's only been one player that's asked to go to the toilet ever since he's been there and it's John Duran John was a bit mental so he just one time coach can I go to the toilet and the boss was like how long did I last how long did the meetings last?

45:32He's been salary now, isn't he? He's actually been for you, kind of. He's had five clubs since. But the manager was good for him, and he won't realise. He could have been one of the best rakers in the world. I've never seen anyone finish like him, ever. But the day before a game, we'll probably debrief one of the last games, which will be an hour and a half, maybe. It's a long time. Bordering on two hours sometimes. Is he picking people out and saying things? Nah, he can lose his rag. at times, but very rarely, he's just a perfectionist.

46:05Gary Neville: Is that pre, sorry, pre, on a Friday before a Saturday game, you're going for two hours, or after a game? Day pre. Day brief after a game. Quite often, I don't want to give too many seconds, but we'll watch our last home game before we play the next home game. Okay. The whole thing? It'll be clips in certain order. Not the whole thing, not Neil Lennon style, when you beat 3-0, and he's like, watch this.

46:34but he'll watch it in detail and it's little things like he'll have an arrow into the position you should be in just like really structured and compact and what he wants if he sniffs bad habits coming into certain players they'll get it in the meeting not like in personal he'll just be like this habit's creeping in and he is a perfectionist he can't always be perfect so I get I've had stick in his meetings for 40 years but you just get used to it and quite often we walk in there like robots but if if we want to be successful we need to do it and it's worked for the past few years so and then on the morning of a game actually morning of a game we watch the other team for about an hour an hour and ten minutes on the day of a game?

47:18aye aye even if it's half two of kick off it'll be half eight meeting wow wow that's a that's tough

47:23Gary Neville: that is like really obsessive isn't it? no wonder they're all leaving Jon, is that something that when you when you watch when you're watching the team you're about to play and you're watching it so early it's there in your mind, it's vivid it's there, isn't it? Aye, but it's just that But that's your normal, is it? If anyone moans about it, it's my job to say we can quite easily go back to fight and relegation or we can quite It does help your winning on the back If it works, he can do what he wants. And it takes a certain type of player, and I think the manager knows that now. It takes a certain player, and there's certain players that need that as well.

48:03There's certain players that think football's just, oh, let's just turn up and do a few step-overs and cross it. But it's changed so much, and the league's so tough that these meetings help us, so just embrace it.

48:14Gary Neville: Are you speaking in the meetings, John, the players, or is it a case of him just... Never. The players don't speak? Never. Oh, no. Wow. No, no, never. He paints his own stuff and delivers it himself, aye. Even as a captain, would you not like as a captain or would you kind of save that for the changing room? No, a changing room, I don't love to shout and ball. Sometimes captains just shout things for the sake of it. Yeah. If I sense the changing room a bit quiet, then I'll shout. Or I'll say, come on, lads, let's lift it or anything. He's taught me so much. So at halftime, I used to have got this Scottish mentality coming at halftime.

48:53You're getting beat one now. oh it's a joke and people flinging boots about the first first six months if that happened he would lose his nut and he'd say calm calm shut up right calm sit down and I'm like I quite like that actually because no one's actually working at what is going wrong or how are we going to be better second half or anything like that then in meetings and stuff I'm like I've never ever thought about that I've never looked at football that way and I just think maybe I could be a coach or manager no I wouldn't copy him because I couldn't do what he does but it certainly makes you think of football in a different way

49:34Gary Neville: it's giving you a little bit of the bug in terms of thinking I just wee movements and why we'll do certain things that I would never have done in football you'll see a full back sometimes turning a certain way or you'll see a centre mid challenging for a ball you think why is the defender not going for it but it'll be because he's conceded a goal seven years ago for Valerio with a flick on. You'll think, I'm learning for that, I'm not making that same mistake. So just his detail is just mind-blowing, to be honest. How does he instil those patterns of play that you have that repeat themselves? They're quite intricate, aren't they, in terms of the way in which, particularly the midfield players, you're all so well-positioned.

50:16Gary Neville: Is that the video work or is it a mixture of video work and sort of on the pitch? I suspect it's both. But how does he get that instil of attacking patterns we do quite a lot of individual stuff so even today for example we're training and I think it was Garnaccio maybe went himself just to work how he wants his winger to move just certain movements so he'll do a function with him almost like a positional session with him he's not doing it his coaches are doing it so he's watching our training but the coaches know exactly what he wants and he'll do it exactly and if Lindelof needs to do some positioning to fill in it right back or centre mid he'll go and do certain bits and then it's just drip feeding things it's hard to get new players to understand what he wants young players coming up but once you get the hang of it you start to become used to it and it is different it is different same when I go and play with Scotland you have to adapt again because it is different but it's certainly enjoyable once it gets going and we're actually suited to playing against the best teams and competing with them because we're so structured but it does take its toll at times but it's worth every minute he looks after you as well you were saying for days off he lets you step back quite often he'll have a couple of days off in a row if we've not got a Champions League game or a midweek game and he needs a break as well I think sometimes he'll go home or see his family but he'll just say rest family time I don't care what you do out here just as long as when you're training you're training when you're focused you're focused and he lets the dressing room manage itself which is pretty good for me as captain I think he's only ever been in the dressing room once I think which is quite often I won't see him until training starts at 11 probably on the laptop somewhere You said you've lost some players I mean Jack Grealish obviously left in 21-22 for 100 million and then Douglas Louise Duran Ramsey now obviously Telemans and Rodgers does that does that have an impact on the dressing room when you see these great players that you've produced that are sort of part of your team does that cause you a problem when you're captain I know you trust the manager which is important but do you think we were just building something here we could have even I mean I look at Villa if you keep Taylor you could potentially be because the league's up for grabs this year a little bit isn't it it does become testing because you lose big characters as well Yuri, great professional Luka, great professional helps a lot because Luca would help me get a message over to the French boys and Yuri could kind of flip between certain groups because now when you're trying to get a message across you've got a table speaking Portuguese or a table speaking Spanish a table speaking British you need to be clever and choose somebody from each group to sort of be an ally I like to get on with everyone but to pass a message across but it's inevitable that when we're trying to compete with these big clubs when our players are doing well they're going to want them and that's why I'm probably surprised it's not happened before.

53:25I'm grateful it's not happened before but I do feel it'll be a difficult season a strange season but I've also got faith in what we can build again because a couple of years ago people thought oh no Villa won't compete in Europe in the league or Villa will come off it but we've managed to sustain a decent level throughout it. He's ashamed to see the injury to Maggio because he looks a bit special I'm excited by him yeah since September he's back I'm hearing but I'm trying to protect him as well because it's very hard being young in English yeah the pressure on him the hype being a striker obviously when Harry Kane's getting a bit older the rules were ridiculous last year and a player born in England yeah not allowed to play in England I know he'd end up bringing in Luxembourg Luxembourg yeah if he was Scottish he would be allowed to play forever Steve Lassus would be in a job but he is a machine it's crazy to think at 17 and just even the other night I know he missed chances but his movement to get in the positions he is he is really exciting and hopefully we can keep Oli and Oli can help him and push him along but he's injured for a wee bit now but he will have a big impact this season and so will George.

54:48When I first saw George training, I thought he's definitely going to play for England. Just his mentality is just, when you see players come up now, I struggle a lot with young English players because, not just young English players, players from academies in the Premier League. The ones with a better attitude just go to that. I've seen so many good players that Aston Villa reserves as the, not reserves, 20 wins is the highlight of their career and it's nothing to do with football. It's just... They're getting given too much too soon. Aye, too much too soon. But I understand why they get it because other clubs will try and give them it.

55:26So the balance is... I think every club in England, they've got the best players in Europe but they're not developing players and if you watch a Premier League 2 game, oh man, it's not football. It is not football. Some players are playing with the laces undone. now if you say to the young Villa players tie your laces some of them look at you like can you imagine can you imagine going to training with Roy with your laces under but they can't understand they look at you going like what's the problem yeah like how are you ready to train or play but George from the first day his attitude willing to learn willing to listen if you shout at him there's no tutting no shaking his head willing to learn and listen and he was first class in the Super Cup and he'll be a big player for us.

56:13But you need them young players, I'm sorry, to fall by the wayside. You need these lads who've got bad attitudes. They've got bad attitudes, it's not just because they're footballers, they've got bad attitudes if they're working on the building side. So you need these players to fall by the wayside to remind people, going, listen, that talent isn't enough. Now, I'm eight years too late but I'm going to speak through the 18s because I'm sick of seeing people waste an unbelievable opportunity. I understand how difficult it is. I didn't earn a lot of money when I was an apprentice. at all at Hibs I was probably one of the lowest paid in the team so I had a hunger and desire to go and achieve money they've already achieved money that they wouldn't ever dream of seeing so how do you get the hunger there how do you I don't know it's tough some of the greatest players in the world have had big money at young kids they still didn't stop them including Rooney and probably Michael Owen and all these lads who are probably on big money at 17 or 18 but the top guys it's never about the money it's never about the money I don't want to be a little grass on you, but before you came in, we were talking obviously about what you said, but I think it's the biggest compliment for any player.

57:19You got the most out of your career, you know, maybe your talent as a youngster. Sometimes people can take that the wrong way in terms of talent-wise, but I always think there could be nothing worse, that's just what you've just said, than someone who doesn't fulfil their potential. That's one of the proudest things for me. I'm not saying I was one of the best players, of course I wasn't, but I do think I got the most I could have got. I couldn't have really done any more and that makes me sleep at night. The thought of being able to, I should have done more, I should have done this, I should have done that.

57:51I think that would keep me awake at night as an ex-player.

57:53Gary Neville: What money were you earning as an apprentice at St Mirren? £85 a week. And that was what, two years from 16 to 18? No, no, I was 17. I wasn't in the first group that got a contract. So I think it was 75 the first year, 85 the second and then I actually got player of the year and they offered me I think it was 350 pounds a week in the first team in the first team but there was players on 2 grand a week I wasn't asking to be highest earner but the gap was huge for the player of the year at the time but I'm so grateful that was my wage so so grateful because where I lived in Scotland so you'll maybe know this from your time at Celtic I was the Clibank Loch Lomanside at Erskine Bridge but it could have taken me 10 minutes in a car to get to training but on public transport it was an hour it was a nightmare because they didn't have a rail bridge so I used to get the rail card the rail card was £60 a month now don't get me wrong my mum and dad helped whenever I needed it but you're basically £25 spare so it was£60 a week for the rail card so you're£25 spare so it was amazing me and a couple of other young lads worked in the ticket office on a match day it was 50 quid cash I don't know I could call back a huge amount of I'll do that I'm the cash man on here he's loving this story show him your cash carry he'll have 50 pound I'm always as car but even then I loved it and then a few months later obviously I was playing on the match days but we used to get big characters at the ticket office window you'd get sometimes Brian Robson would be up watching a player or John Hughes and my Yogi Hughes that's right yeah you didn't work near you man you're no older but it did I actually enjoyed it and then a couple of times I was in the club shop scanning strips and stuff and that's what I loved about St Mirren it gave you a chance to if football fell through I could have worked in the ticket office in the club shop is there a story where one of your teammates Do you know that?

1:00:07Gary Neville: The pole's in the ground. He picks a pole up, but he's got a long spike, and he throws it, and it goes right through your leg. Aye, it wasn't portrayed correctly, but it was a possession drill. Gary Teal was the manager at the time, and Tomo was a big character in the dressing room. Great mate of mine, really good. But we're doing this drill. You run through the gates for a point, and the training pole, he's charging towards me. the training pose kind of bounced up at him hit him in the chin so he can't see me and I've croifed him back for another point but he was a big joker and he's went hiya to chuck it in the ground to give everyone a laugh but he's not seen me come back so I got a big fright aye I got a big fright so it was in my leg 7.7cm in hit the bone and back out I didn't know at the time wasn't it that sore to be honest I just got a fright and the St Mirren didn't have a full time doctor but the doctor at the time was in luckily so he cleared it all out and says you need to go for a scan but I was out of contract in the summer and I had basically agreed to go to Wigan and then that just kind of went quiet I think they must have thought I was involved in some way but it was just a freak accident Tommel was white as a ghost but I wasn't angry at him because it was just a freak accident.

1:01:37And I turned up to his retirement dinner with a training pole. No, but once I got the scan, it was actually a millimetre from the femoral artery. So the surgeon actually did that. He went back in his seat and he went, if I hit that, you were dead, basically. He would have bled out in minutes. Just because where it was, I mean, a blood you'd have lost, he said that was you. So it was a bit of a fright, but I'll have to fight another day. It was quite cool watching it on the scanner when the guy was showing me. Just a big pole mark and then you can see it hitting the bone. But everything happens for a reason.

1:02:16And then I ended up going to Hibs. How long were you injured for after that? Did you miss a lot of football? No, it was six weeks. We'd actually been relegated that year. I was like, is this how football is? So I'm sat in the stand, being relegated at a contract. I'm like, what's happening here? but I was six weeks six weeks because all it was was a wasn't really it was a tear because it pierced the muscle but it was obviously only a a wee tear but it was six weeks but then that was my contract done then and then I went Houston Dynamo for ten days because no one would pay the compensation that was required so St Mirren had offered me a contract and a championship we couldn't come in agreement but someone would have had to pay 300 grand compensation and no one would pay it.

1:03:06So I phoned Owen Coyle and I'd come and try on Houston Dynamo because MLS was the only league that doesn't have to pay training compensation.

1:03:16Gary Neville: Right. So I agreed to sign there. It's funny, I had to go on loan to Charleston Battery for six months. The agreement's all on. I've got it in my email. Sometimes I check it. So I'd agreed to sign Houston Dynamo for two years but go on loan to Charleston Battery for six months until they got an international slot. But St Mirren and the SFA blocked it. So it was going to be a case for the FIFA arbitration on the compensation fee. I would have won because MLS don't need to pay, but it would have been 18 months out of football. Wow. So then I went back and instead of it being 300 grand, it was a sort of deal.

1:03:58I think it was 105 ,000 or 110 ,000. I might not be getting these figures right but sitting there and then got a 33 % sell on so that was the deal and then I went to Hibs and never looked back for that Nice

1:04:12Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney Plus

1:04:19Hi pod fans, Max here, Barry's here too Hello And now the Premier League is back, Barry meaning we'll be providing incredibly astute analysis three times a week wherever you get your podcasts Barry, with the remaining 10 seconds of this advert can you provide some astute analysis? I think Arsenal are going to win the Premier League. And there you are. For more hot takes like that, watch or listen to Football Weekly wherever you get your podcasts.

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1:05:16Gary Neville: Who's the best player you've played with at Villa? We've seen Morgan Rogers go for nearly 120 million. And who would be the best player that you've played with at Villa in the last four or five years? It's Jack and Jack Gorsay. in that year where I think they finished sort of mid-table in the end under Dean Smith but Jack was unbelievable just before he got his move to City just natural talent power, speed he was just phenomenal every single day in training he was frightening we had Coutinho who showed it in spells obviously Morgan Morgan's a special talent as well they'll probably be listening to this raging but I'd have to say Jack was the best I mean are you shocked like we are, we know Morgan's a really good player we all like him, we were talking about him in the World Cup but then the fee now of£120 million are you surprised by that in the game that these fees are happening, the players that you're playing with Aye they are a bit mad but it's English players that's English tax isn't it English tax No but he's young and got potential they're looking at him as sell on value but when we signed him we signed him off the back of in IEMRA watching him in clips before we played Middlesbrough in the Cup and when he signed I told Morgan this some people said what are you doing paying 15 million for Morgan Rodgers he didn't have a great report in terms of attitude in terms of quality I don't think he was one of Middlesbrough's main players he struggled the first sort of bit at Villa but then he just took off and he'd done things in games I didn't see it the attitude he had these moments where he would silk a wee bit but in the main he was a breath of fresh air and he was full of energy brilliant in the dressing room and could like that game against United where he scored the two goals he could just a moment from nowhere and his power his speed and power is unbelievable and I thought he could have played more at the World Cup to be honest but they've got enough to choose from and what are Manchester United getting with Telemans he's going to be a big loss for us unbelievable professional work rate quality just a good teammate just an all round good guy good teammate but he's got quality as well he can find a pass he can score a brilliant goal I'm talking about the complete player here but he's like Johnny I saw Johnny Evans talk about him a couple of weeks ago in the media and he said he's probably what United have been missing.

1:07:59We are going to lose him both on and off the pitch, but he's a top player and he's so determined to win. That's the one thing that I'll maybe miss from a lot of the players was their mentality when the goal was getting tough. I've got no doubts, Uri at United, he'll deliver that, definitely.

1:08:19Gary Neville: Is he a leader off the pitch? 100%. Is it in terms of talking or? Aye. Aye. Aye, in talking standards,

1:08:31he's not got a flaw. He doesn't have a flaw off the pitch. I tried to find it. I tried to get him to have a can of Coke after the game or eat a cookie on the plane or something, but he's so driven. He just does everything right to the letter. You always find him in the gym. Isn't that to know? Yeah. you look at Yuri when he signed I thought my first impressions of Yuri were good player slow and unfit looked a bit fat that's what I thought then he took his top off and I'm like maybe no I don't judge people by that I quite like when somebody's going to be close to me in the fat scan so I ask is he going to be close to me and he went nah nah the opposite so that myth I think he'll always have that with his body shape now I've had that before but his is just wrong he's not going to burst away from you in speed but that's not his game he's as fit as a fiddle and he was really reliable for us and I think he played the majority of games in 90 minutes through that the manager could trust him and he was as fit as a fiddle he's not afraid to get people's standards up either if you're not playing at his standards in training or at his level then he'll let you know but that's good with maturity as well because when he was at Leicester he had his moments at Leicester where he definitely spat his dummy out a little bit which I'm surprised I've never seen it but I've never seen it at Villa of course he's obviously matured I've learned maybe learned for his mistakes but I'm happy for him because he's a good guy but hopefully I end up making him but do you see these lads getting moved on I know you're happy where you are but do you still think I'd like to a United or a Liverpool or a City?

1:10:22No, because one, I'm realistic. Two, Villa are competing at this level consistently. Anytime anyone's shown any interest in me, which has happened, some of it's came out in the press, some of it hasn't. And Villa have made sure no, we want you to stay. You're not for sale at any price. Now there was a small spell after Steven Gerrard left that that wouldn't have been the case but in the main they've always said no no you're not for sale at any price so once they say that and you're wanted and they're still competing and I think now even though we've lost players we'll recruit to compete I wanted to ask you about winning the trophy because I know you've been on an unbelievable journey with the manager and playing Champions League football was great at the time but I always think when you're on a run like this and I think of yourselves maybe even Villa are a bigger club than Crystal Palace but I always think when you're having that few good you need that trophy that you can all look back on.

1:11:18You can have that get-together in 10 years' time, 25 years' time. You're not getting together because you made the Champions League. How important was it that you've always got that trophy? No matter what happens, you can look back on that Unai Emery time or that Aston Villa fans can or your time as a player and captain that you've got something. How big was that night to get the trophy? Did you feel that pressure going into it? I felt the pressure in the semi-final, 100%. Because it had been too many times. the Crystal Palace semi-final was a big blow that was a that was a that was a bad day and then Crystal Palace won a trophy Newcastle won a trophy and you're sat there thinking we've arguably been better than Palace and Newcastle over the past few years are we going to be the maybe team then the champions that you get to the quarter final you think oh can we and we actually started to believe we could especially at parts of that PSG game you think we could we could go and do this so the belief started to grow I don't think we had the mentality for it a couple of years ago I think we were still in bad habits and getting to stages where we could maybe kick on and then no showing up against Palace but something felt different that night at Villa Park in the semis I was worried for the Forest game I could probably have dealt with Freiburg winning it no Forest because it would have been in your face and I think the Forest players would probably say the same so I was nervous for the semis I wasn't nervous for the final but I was over the moon and that meant a lot to me but it meant a lot to all of us because we deserved it I thought but I think there was a mentality shift that semi-final second leg I thought right, not this time and the players thought that as well and even looking back to the semi-final like Palace just done us just the game plan they've just done us and they've been so good at that against us but we would have been failures if we'd only won the Europa League there especially after the Conference League semi as well and Olympiacos we would have been the nearly team What was the feeling of actually lifting the trophy though in that moment?

1:13:30It must have been special It was special because I've never been captain that's lifted a trophy and managed to win a trophy at St Mirren and at Hibs but I was always in the middle of the pack so I was a bit nervous but it was a great feeling it just makes everything worthwhile every dark day at Villa every day we think why do I not just stay up the road but it made every sort of tough day worthwhile and it was definitely the most favourite night of my career by far This episode of Stick to Football

1:14:04Gary Neville: is brought to you by Disney Plus What's the ambition for this season? What would you say success looks like again? well I did an interview a few weeks ago saying we're used to change and we'll try and integrate new players and improve on last year I'm not naive enough to think that's not going to be more difficult now with where we're at but I think we need to try and compete in Europe again try and be in these European spots and maybe go somewhere in the Champions League maybe try and just nick one more semi-final I don't know but if we can get through the groups the same way we did the last time in the top eight I mean this year's going to be strange I know we're not in a great place looking from the outside but Liverpool have changed their manager Chelsea have changed their manager there's a lot of change in other clubs Newcastle are maybe not in a place where they're thinking we're putting so hopefully we can keep floating under the radar I think we're at our best when we just keep floating under under the radar and keep nicking results and I think with this guy in charge For all the change there's a lot of stability and a strange way at Villa isn't it with the manager There is the strength up until this year probably the strength of having to sell one or two every year has meant we've had to trade smartly but not recklessly which other clubs aren't allowed to do but they seem to do they think instead of improving certain areas let's just get a whole new team doesn't ever work so we have got a lot of work to do 100 % but the the way we've got it now is good and hopefully like the Super Cup like you said if we perform like that we'll be absolutely fine this year You're 31 you've got a few years left but what does the end are you starting to think about what the late 30s looks like what the end of your career looks like I have because it scares you once you get to 30 like you said every birthday becomes quite sad to be honest until you get to 55 I heard what you're saying about the football one it does as soon as you have a bad game he's over 30 he's rubbish as soon as you have a good game my age is just a number and it's so fickle I see it all the time with players I'd quite like the thought of being an assistant manager because I don't like making difficult decisions and I'm trying to learn and see where do I fit in and I think I would be a good bridge between players and staff assistant manager or third coach the Stephen A.

1:16:43Smith role at Scotland I'm like oh

1:16:47play golf a couple of months of the season but then I started to work with the manager and I thought no I could maybe make a difference somewhere maybe with what I've learned I quite enjoy doing bits of punditry I don't like doing too much when I'm playing but wee bits here and there could I do it when I'm finished I don't know there's obviously a lot of people who want to go into it These guys do, you'll be fine I wonder how long Ali McCoy's got left He's got the accent Scottish accent Do players, because obviously you think the Punditry world is so big now there's so many different things around it Do you think a lot of players now in the dressing room look to Punditry actually before they look to culture I've found a lot of players recently looking at sporting directorship first I've found more looking at that than actual being managers punditry not a lot of people love it because players these days have the mindset that I'm never going to be a pundit because I'm never going to criticise players that's how you think as a current player now I personally don't think like that I think I could do it maybe at a certain level but I think some players at the time they think I'm not going to be a pundit and then they finish and they go that's actually quite like that but Young is probably Ashley Young is pretty good at it isn't he so he would have been in my restroom saying nah no chance no chance am I doing that and then two months later you see him being a pundit Alan Hutton never done any interviews at Villa he's now he's now a pundit he's good at it so well it helps and the Villa doing well you know if you put for a club Villa would get a lot more work and maybe the ambassador I quite like that one on the pre-season tours James Chester and Elmo they were on that tour there I'll go to Hong Kong every summer or somewhere like that but aye if I could be a coach first and foremost maybe but you never say never John

1:18:41Gary Neville: we've got five or six minutes left so I'm going to go through some quick fire questions do you want to do them? no best trainee you've ever trained with? Luka Dini Luka Dini oh aye every day absolute machine yeah I've never seen a professional like it he needs to take some rest worst trainer? I'm not great sometimes I'm rubbish in training like a pub player worst trainer in terms of quality or effort just worst training both worst trainer what's a difficult one don't think of someone that's what I thought you said you could do this punditry no no I'd say me yeah yeah I'd say me or let me come back to that one don't go back to it where are you going you could be a politician funniest teammate funniest teammate it's actually Liam Kelly he's current Rangers goalkeeper and one of the Scotland keepers he is mental I used to be up there with one of the funniest in the squad but I kind of keep up with him but I'd say Liam Kelly most intelligent footballer you played with Aujan Nyland the Norwegian keeper he was smart he used to come in with a Polonic sometimes

1:20:11he's not got a degree he's got a degree Paul and I come first I love that Tom Heaton Tom Heaton's quite smart oh yeah I like Tom you don't fucking know what else you think he is he doesn't make you look smart most underrated teammate Ezra Conte but now he's starting to get next teammate next teammate has it been announced for years he was amazing what a player man

1:20:41Gary Neville: most naturally gifted teammate Jack worst loser Jack bad loser him and JT used to have right ding dongs JT used to be the ref in training because he was the coach at the time but Jack's the worst loser in football best nickname

1:21:02Carnie took my maker Neil Taylor called him chilli what's that sorry Neil Taylor called him chilli chilli con carne he didn't find it he didn't find it funny but aye roll it

1:21:17Gary Neville: player who's always late La Marble Gard nightmare yeah absolute nightmare he's always late but I don't do fines anymore we used to do fines nobody paid I'm sick of chasing people it doesn't hurt people enough they would rather be late pay the fine so does the club still do that you've put someone else in charge or just scrapped it no no the manager lets us police it but it was under the last couple of managers we had fines but not anymore it's lost its biggest moaner Ross Barkley oh Ross you didn't even think about that no no no like one of those moaning in training he'd moan about his slice of toast in the morning and I'd wind him up I'd say he's high maintenance but he has got good standards he's like OCD I'm next to him in the dressing room and he's everything's in order so I'll steal his deodorant sometime but he's he's a good he's a good trainer Ross so he's he's a moaner he is a big moaner best defender you've ever played against who's given you the hardest game I'll make it that way do you know who really surprised me Calafuri physically because Califuri and Luke Shaw would be my two hardest opponents Luke Shaw because I need to completely I need to completely adapt my game with Luke Shaw because we're of similar similar build but he's one I have to completely try and adapt and Califuri was much stronger than what I thought I was really impressed with him he's not what position would you call yourself I'd say I currently don't have one yeah because you're playing like always playing like a space don't you when I signed the manager had the clipboard out and he said what's your favourite position and I said I don't care and I genuinely mean that I don't have a position where I think I just said not the bench and he started laughing at me and he's laughing I was like no I'm being serious and then he realised I actually don't mind so I just kind of fill in where somebody's missing what's your favourite though like where do you enjoy playing?

1:23:26I quite like the hustle and tussle when I'm right mid out in the wing and I start getting the goal kicks fired at me and Emi Martinez is amazing because if you play the bottom me here I'm not going to win a header but he somehow would just find the space right there in front of me and I quite enjoy the tussles by all the players in the league from goal kicks quite enjoy being on the ring You must win a lot of free kicks do you? Do you win a lot of free kicks? Aye your stats would be aye but some refs have stopped they've stopped giving me giving me things and I keep winding them up I do you know it's winning three games

1:24:04Gary Neville: next big thing last question as player for you yeah next big thing aye I'd have to say Brian Badger aye if he keeps going the way he possibly could aye if you keep probably the hardest thing is a young English player in Birmingham is staying away from the distractions. I'm not perfect, but I spoke to Brian last week. I'm far from perfect. I like a pint from time to time. Could I do more in the gym? Yes, 100%. But if he stays away from the nightlife in Birmingham and has the right people around him, he could be seriously, seriously good. Yeah. That's what I think. John, thank you so much for coming on Stick to Football.

1:24:50Gary Neville: Thank you very much. Super John McGee I absolutely love that John That was super, super John All the best to you this season Thank you I was actually at my comfort zone I'm sweating there Oh no

1:25:06This has been a Global and the Overlap production

1:25:21astute analysis three times a week wherever you get your podcasts. Barry, with the remaining 10 seconds of this advert, can you provide some astute analysis? I think Arsenal are going to win the Premier League. And there you are. For more hot takes like that, watch or listen to Football Weekly wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Nick, co-host of The Best One Yet. You optimize your workouts, your portfolios, and that rando startup idea that hit you in the middle of the shower. But if you're not hydrated, you're already playing catch-up. So we keep a stash of liquid IV in our studio. One stick mixed into 16 ounces of water is clinically demonstrated.

1:25:51to hydrate faster than water alone with three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients. Whether you're traveling, exercising, or podcasting, the best business news ever, Liquid IV makes it easy to stay hydrated wherever life takes you. So shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV hydration that goes wherever life takes you.