Johnny Marr: The Smiths, Reunion Talk & Friendship With Roy! | Stick to Football EP 88

0:00Gary Neville: Stick to Football is brought to you by our title partner, Disney+. Watch a lifetime of great stories on Disney+.

0:10Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

0:47You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com. That's growtherapy.com. slash start now. Growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. If you felt stuck trying to lose weight, you're not alone.

1:31Enter Weight Loss by HERS. It's designed to support you in reaching your goals. And HERS now offers access to an affordable range of FDA-approved GLP-1 medications, including the WeGovi pill and the WeGovi pen. Even better, with a range of affordable GLP-1 options, HERS makes it simple to find an approach that fits your needs and your budget. If eligible, you'll get a treatment plan personalized to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed. It's weight loss designed to work with your life. Ready to reach your goals? Visit ForHERS.com slash eligible to get personalized, affordable care that gets you.

2:06That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash eligible. ForHERS.com slash eligible. Weight loss by HERS is not available in all 50 states. We Go V is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information, We Go V clinical study information and restrictions, visit ForHers.com.

2:29Gary Neville: Is that bad age when you bring tea bags around? You know, you got tea bags in your pocket.

2:32Roy Keane: Yeah, it is.

2:34Gary Neville: Is that old age, mate? Give it a drink. Hey! Good to see you, Roy. Good to see you. You all right? Brilliant. Brilliant. Good to see you. How are you doing, sir? I see you, mate. Good to see you, my friend. All right. Nice. Nice.

2:46Roy Keane: Nice to see you. We have said have a lovely one. Nice to see you. Good. Oh, getting fed. You're getting fed and all. Is that it? It looks a bit sparse, doesn't it? It does look sparse. It's not very impressive.

2:58Gary Neville: Have you had your tea request yet? Are you on? No. Do you want some decaf? Do you know what? I'm going to have decaf, I think. Decaf Earl Grey, this. Oh, I'm not sure about Earl Grey. That's right. He's really fussy with that. You can't have Earl Grey. I'm more fussy than me. No, no, no. You're really pretty fussy. Yeah, I'm the same. Can I throw around? What do you drink?

3:16Roy Keane: Like tea? Usually I drink loads and loads of tea, like Roy, just tons of it. But I'm sort of trying to do the decaf a little bit now. Oh, he is as well. Is he getting you some decaf? He is. He's getting me normal decaf. You've got one in your pocket, Roy. I've been dead into it. What is it like that? Do you want coffee? Yeah, I like it. Do you want a place on here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How long have you got that? Just in North London? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know Palatine Road? I do, yeah. Yeah, just on there. It's dead expensive, don't you? No, it's not. it's not that expensive so we had a small small shop and then we've moved just down the road so it's like a lot bigger now so yeah you should come in for a tea do you like coffee or not no but do you do teas there yeah did you used to live around there yeah I grew up around there yeah I thought you did from being about 10 or 11 I grew up around there within shore yeah but I know you're well around there because I used to live in Sharston when I first signed for Man City did you there yeah yeah it was nice people were lovely yeah you know where the Withenshaw Football Club is?

4:15Roy Keane: I do, yeah. Literally opposite, like, literally opposite there. It's like a little housing estate. That's where I grew up, that's my estate, yeah. Is it? Yeah. The same one? Yeah, next to Withenshaw, yeah. Oh, my God, yeah. That's where I grew up, yeah. Exactly the same one, so I lived there for, like, three years. You used to just get put, like, in a house and you didn't even know who you were going to be in with.

4:32Gary Neville: What, when you were a player, you mean? Yeah. Well, I had the same with me, with Forrest, they put you into a house with a couple of lads. I hadn't met them before.

4:38Roy Keane: I loved it, though. It was the best days. It was the best days. Like, just being, like, with a teammate, living in, like...

4:44Gary Neville: Oh, brilliant.

4:45Roy Keane: It was brilliant. Brilliant. Really good.

4:50I've yet to meet anyone who thinks that a 23-year-old guitar player in a band should be the manager. All these managers keep getting fired. It's on you. You've got to look after the band. Why were they being fired? My partner didn't get along with them. So he would fire them, would he? Yeah, but I would have to do it. Guitarists are like wingers, because they make all this magic and then the guy up front runs around saying, look at me! So, because you do James Bond, I'll do it if you play guitar in it. I went, you better. So I went, yes, yes, I'll come down tomorrow. When you see all these bands that are reformed and they're making absolute tonnes of money.

5:29Yeah, we got made an offer really recently, in fact. But yeah, I said, no, I didn't. Wasn't enough? I said, no, you should be the manager. He cashed out.

5:41Gary Neville: I was out last night walking. I went up for a walk last night for an hour and a half. I had some of your music on. You know, sometimes it just hits the spot. Oh, good. Nice one, yeah. It was a nice, lovely evening, wasn't it? It was lovely last night, yeah. Were you out on the boat last night, no? I went out for a run. And then, no, I was writing. So I've got a house to myself at the moment, because Angie's in London, so I've got a place down there. So she sort of... She knows what I'm like when I'm writing. I'm a bit nutty. Is that right, Rocky? Get a bit intense, yeah. and so anyway, she's off for a few days to take care of business.

6:10So I was on my own in the house. Dogs were out.

6:13Gary Neville: And can some nights of floors, or as other nights, like somebody write, yeah, obviously write, and it can just hit a brick wall. Sometimes, yeah, it's sometimes and often it's a craft. You know, there's a lot of ideas about songwriting that are very, very romantic and they're nice. It sounds great. Like I was in the supermarket and I heard this phrase and this song came to me. Well, it's like, if you're Smokey Robinson, yeah, or if you're Pharrell or if you're Stevie Wonder or like some Burt Bacharach or whatever. But that does happen occasionally. I mean, that's one of the things I like about running.

6:44You know, when I started running a lot, all my tracks started really getting fast, up-tempo. So thinking about stuff and the energy's up, pretty good. You know, it's interesting. But sometimes, quite often, you have to... There's a saying, I think it was Picasso, I said, inspiration does exist, but it has to find you working. If you're not actually there...

7:06Roy Keane: Yeah. How does it come to you? Do you just, all of a sudden, you're just going to say, I'm just going to go and write some songs. How's it work? Well, for me, the music, because I've been playing for being a kid, playing guitar and stuff, that is, I won't say easy, but I can just come up with tunes and it's quite natural. Right. Because, you know, it used to come quite easy to me. And then the words and the concepts and saying stuff, you almost have to, it almost comes, the harder you try, the harder it is the more forced and you almost have to play a trick on your brain it's a little bit like they say like fishing you have to be almost like you know you put the kettle on sort of you've got a song on the go but you're trying to like not not paying attention yeah oh I'm not got my rod in the water there I'm not looking it's just and then because if you sit in absolute you can psych yourself out a little bit sometimes when you fall asleep do you get like because they say when your brain relaxes sometimes like all your best lyrics and stuff yeah well I used to think that if I dreamt a song, and I did quite recently that if a tune in, you're in a dream and you hear a track or you're a tune or you're playing a show in a dream or whatever, and you sort of go, hang on a minute, I haven't actually written that song.

8:16So at three o 'clock in the morning, this happens sometimes. You get out, tiptoe into the guest room, I've got a little guitar there, I'm singing into my phone. And for the longest time, for ages I used to think, they're pure songs. because they just come from the universe or whatever, they're not always great. You know, I did one the other day and I listened to it the next day and I'm like, what is that? And, you know, also I wake up in the night and if I've got a melody, if you sing it, while you're hearing it, it makes total sense to you, but the next day you switch it on and someone's just going, it's just me going, tomorrow.

8:56R-O-R-O. Fast bit, fast bit, fast bit. And it's like, what's that? So I've got a little bit of a system now where I put a beat behind it. I'm just going, I'm singing. Sometimes it works so, and if it does, you're glad of it. Do you know instantly if you've done one where you think, well, yeah, I like that one, you can feel it instantly. Yeah. Yeah, when you've got one that's a bit of a banger. Yeah. Yeah, I'm worse than... Then I just run around like a lunatic. I'm like a Labrador.

9:28too happy drive everyone nuts but yeah I live for that really it's the real buzz when you've got a new song it's nothing like it it's amazing great

9:38Gary Neville: I mean that's what comes across listening to you there that excitement enthusiasm runs right through you still doesn't it well it's funny I always assume you know Roy's has been saying there's a lot of I think there's a lot of similarities between what I do and what all you guys have done you know loads you know I've plenty of theories about it you know you're in front of crowds and the chemistry between I mean you know Roy's always been talking about it like the chemistry between in a team and the chemistry between musicians and a band it's a real thing you know I find it really interesting when I've been asking Roy about the dressing room and all that because you know there's all this stuff as a football fan that you hear like some people are leaders, not everyone wants to be a leader.

10:23Some people want to be up front. Not everyone wants to be up front. I mean, I've seen a band here, you know what I mean? What are we? Can you tell us what we are?

10:35Gary Neville: Two roadies over there. Are you going to say groupies? I'm bass. Do you know what? Funny enough, I would say that. Basic. There are similarities, but there are similarities between, you know, I've known a few players over the years and I go, oh yeah, okay, he's a bit like, yeah, she's... And yeah, we'll say, in a band, I mean, it's a generalisation, but I've been doing it a long time. So bass players, for example, they don't really necessarily want all the glory. They want to make sure everything's steady, keep everything tidy and be at the back and be steady and they don't want... It's a full back.

11:18they're on the right back yeah

11:20Gary Neville: so bass player all day long there's always a dick in a band isn't there

11:26Roy Keane: the one who leaves and comes back and leaves oh yes it's definitely seen the chemistry you know I've been in some bands I may have been on a lot of bands and occasionally as I've got older I remember when I was in Modest Mouse a band in America and I had a moment you know when I was in the studio and I looked around and I thought the chemistry with this bunch of people six of us I thought this is because I've been around doing it a while and I went I've been doing it since I was a kid, like you guys, you know, but I was like, yeah, this is a real special chemistry. So, oh, yeah, back to the band.

11:56Have you got a tambourine joke? But I say, so guitarists, so generally, again, guitarists driven, attitude, you know, rhythm. So I like in bands, for me, the best sound in the world, certainly in indie rock, is two guitars together. like The Stones, like Oasis, you know, two guitars. My band has two guitars. So I reckon two guitarists. Also, the guitarists... Are the most intelligent.

12:30Roy Keane: That's looking. Why are you late for rehearsals? Yeah. You know, so... That's right. And, yeah, two midfielders and then... You need a lead singer, though. What about... Oh, it's an ego thing. It's an easy... yes love it he's loving it of course he is

12:51Gary Neville: he's like no no he gets paid all the money goes on private jets I was going to say someone who can bring a bit of emotion you know it's alright with like bringing you up there you're bringing that emotional

13:08Roy Keane: and every band needs a drummer Jamie and I know like being from Liverpool you're probably into singing, right? Yeah. But, you know, drummers are... Drummers are actually more like goalkeepers. I mean, if there was a goalie here, I'd say drummer all day long. But, you know, there are similarities there between goalies and drummers. I mean, obviously, they're at the back. But if your drummer's having an off night... Is that right? Wow. Olds it all together. Olds it all together. Like Ringo Starr.

13:39Gary Neville: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But can you be in a band as well where somebody might be the best at their job, but they're bringing something different. Again, we'll go back to that word. Chemistry, it's the same in a band. You don't have to have the best, but... 100%. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, it's funny, you know, if you take a band like the Beatles, they always come to mind because they're the yardstick everyone thinks about, you know. But, you know, Ringo, again, you know, is so important to the sound. If it was anyone else, it'd be a completely different band. And, you know, but pretty low-key, George Harrison, speaking as a guitar player, I mean, one of the greatest guitar players ever because, you know, you listen to some Beatles stuff, you're like, you know, you can sing those tunes he plays.

14:22Paul McCartney, on the other hand, speaking as a musician, and I had the mind-blowing experience of playing with Paul McCartney when I was younger. He's like having your 12th man. I mean, he really is like, in a band, he's like having two guys. Because you saw melodic, he's so attitude-y and just, you know, amazing musicality.

14:41Gary Neville: Does he get the credit he deserves, Paul McCartney? Does he? Everyone, do you think of him?

14:45Roy Keane: I think in the Beatles he did, didn't he? It was a lot about him. There's so much about him. He's so famous and become such a cultural sort of person now that it's forgotten. There's quite a lot of people like this in the culture, I think, not just musicians. You forget, actually, about what their craft is. Paul McCartney reinvented a way of playing the bass. I mean, he's one of the most incredible... You can think of him as a songwriter and a singer, really, but as a bass guitar player I mean it's next level really yeah and I think he I think that was very deliberate I think he took really great pride in being great at I think he wanted to be the best bass player in the world I mean he was really into Motown that was his thing really I'm not sure you watched it you've watched it the Beatles thing sort of behind this all those tapes that they got from years gone back and it was about two years ago or a year or so ago that came out where it was like behind the scenes, basically.

15:38I thought that was some of the best television I've ever seen with Paul McCartney and John Lennon. They said they'd taken the cameras away and they were chatting about the band. Oh, yeah. They had like a tape there or something. You could still hear them. It was in a plant or something. And they were talking about George Harrison or the band breaking up and songs and that. It was unbelievable. We see, I mean, there's so much about that. It was amazing. But get back to that thing of chemistry. Chemistry, it just, I mean, I've been making assumptions here, but football teams, you've got to share, you're on a mission together.

16:07You know, there is that, and some people fall out. Some people don't get along. Some people you kind of have to get along for a time just to sort of crack on. I've never really believed in that. I'm out of there if it's not a good time.

16:20Roy Keane: Do you not think sometimes you can't get on, but then when it comes to performance, you can still go out and give that really good performance? Or do you feel like you have to...? I've been around bands who, you know, I know of bands who do that. I maybe overthink it and get too deep about this stuff, but I think if you're not on a mission, I mean, you don't have to be like chanting and high-fiving and all that, but I think if there's a bad... I don't like a bad vibe. I like a good feeling. That's probably why I've been in so many bands. In some ways, I don't mean to be a modest, I'm good in bands because I have that enthusiasm for it and I grew up with a sort of really romanticism.

16:59I also had to learn how to do it. But I believe a band is a special thing. I don't think there's anything like it. I mean, I could say from experience, a band is a special thing. There's something else. It's amazing.

17:13Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by SkyBet.

17:22Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

17:58you just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

18:40If you felt stuck trying to lose weight, you're not alone. Enter Weight Loss by HERS. It's designed to support you in reaching your goals. And HERS now offers access to an affordable range of FDA approved GLP-1 medications, including the WeGovi pill and the WeGovi pen. Even better, with a range of affordable GLP-1 options, HERS makes it simple to find an approach that fits your needs and your budget. If eligible, you'll get a treatment plan personalized to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed. It's weight loss designed to work with your life. Ready to reach your goals? Visit 4hers.com slash eligible to get personalized affordable care that gets you.

19:17That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash eligible. 4hers.com slash eligible. Weight loss by HERS is not available in all 50 states. WeGovi is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information, WeGovi clinical study information, and restrictions, visit 4hers.com. You said there about the vibe that you're out of there. Have you had an experience where you have stayed and you should have left? uh i learned pretty early because obviously you know i'm known primarily and um for my time in the smiths that's how i got known that's how people got to know me the songs i still loved years and years later and um and i left that band at 24 you know because the vibe is it's a long story but the friendships fell apart and got straight into it but um but it broke down the I broke down and the friendships and all of that and I was kind of heartbroken but I was only 24 but that experience then taught me a lot being in other bands, so I was in the Pretenders and I was in the There and so having gone through that experience I can sort of see the signs now and I've been in a lot of bands and I'm on good terms with all those other bands so I've always left on a high, it's always been cool you know and it's never got too it's never been too personal like with the Cribs they wanted to take a year off to write and I was all ready to do some stuff, so it wasn't personal.

20:50I was like, listen, guys, I've got 30 songs here. And if someone's got 30 songs, you don't get in the way. So that's how I did my solo stuff. It was purely because of that. So, you know, some people, if you look at my career, look like a serial leaver. But I'm not actually, I'm a serial joiner. And in some ways, again, you know, like some footballers, I mean, Gary's unusual. I'd say in that a one-team player, surely that's got to be quite an unusual thing in football. Jamie knows it. Jamie the same, yeah, exactly. So, but in rock, you two, Coldplay, these bands, we've almost become used to, they've become like a bit of a paradigm now or a yardstick.

21:29You think, why can't you stay together forever? But most bands don't, really.

21:34Gary Neville: I'm wondering if you think this, where does it start when things start falling apart? Would it be something like, obviously, being laid, money comes into it? Yeah, all of those things. I think, you know, like, I don't know whether it's the same in football, but egos, bad lifestyles. I mean, in my case, with the Smiths' sake, we were all dead young as well. So I do give everyone, myself and everyone, a pass on that. The main thing with the Smiths that has become well-known is that we didn't... I managed the band. That was the role part of me. Because I formed the band, right, when I was 18, 19.

22:08That suited my personality. I found the, see we weren't a bunch of mates from school like U2 or like Coldplay or Radiohead. I worked to put a band together. So I went and found the band members and we learnt to love each other real quick. You know, we came really tight, really quick. And there's a lot of stuff about the Smiths that isn't true. Like, you know, we were really, really tight. But we didn't really know each other. I brought that in. But my role was I found the manager. I went to London to get the record deal. I found the studios. And that wasn't a great hardship because it suited me and I was looking after my band and that was my role.

22:45But five years later, when we're playing to 10 ,000 people and the band is saying to me, all these managers keep getting fired, it's on you. You've got to look after the band. I was 23. And I'm sitting in meetings with accountants being told tax laws that I didn't understand. Still don't give a shit about now, frankly. And with lawyers... He's the same.

23:12I don't mean I don't pay him. I just mean I put my head in the sand and go, right, OK. But, no, and with lawyers, so it's a big difference being 19 and trying to find rehearsal rooms and trying to find a bass player and trying to get a manager and all that to five years later, you've had all these hits and you're on the road in America for seven weeks or whatever and everything's falling apart and people are being fired all the time.

23:36Gary Neville: Why were they being fired, Johnny? His managers were being fired. Why were they being fired? My partner didn't get along with them. All right, okay. And I couldn't... So he would fire them, would he? Yeah, but I would have to do it. Oh. So I just had enough of that. But again, that sounds like a complaint. That was my role. But at 24, I just thought... I've said this before, but I've yet to meet anyone who thinks that the 23-year-old guitar player in a band should be the manager.

24:08Roy Keane: You just wanted to be in the background. Were you having a good time? I was having a great time until I wasn't, until I got miserable. Oh, man, honestly, my dreams came true. I was so... Did it happen quickly? I loved the band. I thought the Smiths were the best band in the world at the time. I was so proud of us. I loved the music we were making. I still do love that music. I loved the guys, and I loved what it was we were doing. but there's relationships break down and that's life

24:36Gary Neville: but was it good was that was only meant to be a short you were never going to be together for 20 years I think so maybe that's why he was good as well do you know what I know it is I can be philosophical about it 100 % because again bring it back to a player some players they want to play for Real Madrid they want to play of course they want to be established at Liverpool and then they want to go but the dreams are to play in different teams with different players and with different managers I'm the musical equivalent of that. I mean, a huge influence on me is Niall Rogers. You know, I named a son after him.

25:11And what I saw in Niall is growing up. See, I'm known for being an indie rocker, but I'd seen Niall Rogers and he's working with David Bowie and he's behind the mixing desk with his guitar on, which he literally did. So I'm known for being in an indie rock band and there's a certain thing there where there's a rule where it goes back to the Beatles. Four, usually, lads together. in the same jacket, stood up against the wall. But as a kid, I was always... I wanted to play with different people. I wanted to make records. I was obsessed with being in the studio and playing. And that's what I've ended up doing.

25:46So I've had the best job in the world, really. So I have to talk about the Smiths a lot because it's defined me, and that's absolutely fine. If I'm going to be known for being in any band, that'll do. But I've had 40 years of the best job in the world, really.

25:58Roy Keane: Is it hard doing the solo stuff because you're used to being part of a band? Do you miss? Well, no, because, well, funny enough, Joe, I mean, I've had my band I've had for 12 years. Oh, OK. So that's the longest line-up I've had. And I was in, so then I was in a band called The London Band for a while, about four or five years. So I've been in some bands longer than I was ever in the Smiths. But you sort of get known for, when you first come out in the public eye, that's what you're known for, really. Yeah. I think. And that's absolutely fine. but the solo career, just me and my band, it's been about 13 years now and it's been fantastic, that and doing movies and stuff.

26:38So I get to have a cake and eat in there, really. Did you do James Bond?

26:43Roy Keane: Did you do James Bond theme tune or something? Yeah, I did the James Bond film with Billie Eilish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. How was that? Oh, that was amazing. So that's all I did with Hans Zimmer, the film composer. The first film I did with Hans was Inception. One of the greatest. Yeah. Hans Zimmer just dropped Hans Zimmer. I know, just dropping him. Amazing. So, yeah, I started working with Hans in 2010, did Inception, which I loved because I loved the movie. Yeah. And that was a real eye-opener working on films. I was like, wow. And then did a couple of others. Spider-Man worked on a few. And then, so that's how I did...

27:21So then when Hans got asked to do James Bond, he called me up on a Saturday night. I was watching the match and he said, I have a question. Do you think I should do James Bond? And I went, right. And he went, do you think I should do it? And I'll do it if you play guitar on it. I went, you better. So I went, yes, yes, I'll come down tomorrow. So I was down there the next day and then that's a whole other thing, doing movies. I don't write the movies, I play guitar on it. but I've been very lucky because the sort of music Hans has written usually suits the guitar because there was years and years where the guitar was a no-no in films to do within the 80s because it was so overused Top Gun and Dom and Louise and this kind of movie it was really overused I didn't know this until I started doing Inception directors were like you can have anything in the movie make it not a guitar so Inception brought that back really which I'm very proud of not for myself but for the guitar so we did that and then everything started to sound like Inception and that sort of set a little bit of a blueprint but when I come to do Bond normally I'm a really good team player on the movies I've learnt it's a great thing about doing this stuff because I like being in teams and I've gone right okay well I'll do some stuff it might not work it's not all about me da da da da da well when I did Bond I wasn't like that at all I was like, I'm putting the guitar everywhere.

28:55Because it's down and down and down. I grew up in the 60s and 70s, live and let die and all of this stuff. And I was thinking, the James Bond theme, the guitar should be loud. Excuse me. So I was a bit of an arsehole in that film.

29:12Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. Johnny, you go back to 23, 24, it's about the similarities between a young football player and a young musician and you think about Trent Alexander-Ardle now who's just left his band the one that he's been with for 10, 12 years and he's obviously getting quite a bit of attention I mean it takes big courage to do what you did because the easiest thing you're winning at that point aren't you? You've got your most unbelievable music for you to walk away at that age takes a lot, it must do and what was that moment like when you thought I'm done?

29:42Gary Neville: It was horrible I mean and it was because I was so young it was an emotional decision but it was, I don't want to be, well I suppose it was so dramatic really. When I left the Smiths you mean? Yeah, it was massive, isn't it? Yeah, it was really massive, yeah. Do you regret anything about it? Funnily enough I don't, no. No. No I don't, I mean it was untenable really and it wasn't a sort of impulsive decision either. I looked at it for quite a long time and I was really heartbroken about it really. so it was certainly not a career decision because I I mean I had to really look at well what's next but that's why you're respected even more now I think isn't it maybe well maybe yeah but I'd like to think you know I mean I've got grown up children that if they're in the I mean I'm getting very serious here but if they're in the similar position that they do the same as me that's why I don't regret it yeah you know I look back and actually at the age of 61 now I look back and I go what ballsy ballsy but happy yeah so but it was hard it was definitely hard when you see all these bands that are reformed and they're making absolute tons of money yeah and you've said no is that right yeah yeah we got made an offer really recently in fact but yeah I said no I didn't wasn't enough I don't know you should be the manager get the drums Johnny he just died There you go.

31:20Gary Neville: Yeah. Just because you want to be able to look yourself in the mirror and just, is that just because of who you are and your morals and your principles? It's not quite that principled. There's a little bit of that. But I'm not an idiot. I just think the vibe's not right. Bad vibe. So... There's not many people who go on just vibes. People say, yeah, but it's just the vibe. Sometimes you go on vibes. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was, you know, it was a sort of, you know, eye-watering amount of money, but also I really like what I'm doing now, which makes it a lot easier. You know, I really like where I'm at.

31:56I mean, I still have to work, as in my craft, you know. My thing is I still want to write the best song I've ever written. That's the thing. Be a better performer, all of this stuff. See, that is the difference between what I do and what you guys have done, is that you can keep going, really, within reason. There's all these... I mean, I know there's the Stones and people like that, but you can still be a songwriter when you're in your 60s, 70s, as long as you're able to physically do it. Does that still drive you, just what you said there? It probably takes me... Obviously, we've stopped playing, but that thing when I was playing was whatever I'd done was not enough.

32:38You know, there's always something that's done more than you're on a team, and there's always something that's goal or drive to do more. you're saying that at your age now in terms of I still want to write the best song I've ever written you still think that best song is still there that's still what you're aiming for there might be a day you know when I go it's not and you know I'll get another dog

33:01Roy Keane: you know and you know but there's funny another thing as well I mean that I think we have in common and I've noticed particularly you with stats, Jamie, that, but being an expert, I think it really counts for something. I think it makes you feel good and if you started from being 10 or 11 and not just stats, but you know, so David Beckham comes to mind. I met him a couple of times, but the stories are like when he came to United, he knew about the history of United and famously Bob Marley, right, when he first went in the studio, he was 15, 16, this attitudely little guy. He knew how the studio worked because he'd been listening to Sam Cooke, the Coasters, the Drifters.

33:48He knew all about it. And he was a bit of a pain in the ass because he was like, no, no, those vocals aren't loud enough. And he knew how to run a band. And I was like that at 9, 10, pop music, especially if it had a guitar on. Everything about it, I was like, so it was like, yeah, it's a passion and I wanted to be a performer. but to get back to the point I think it's good being an expert and like doing what you guys do in public it's quite, you know, as a football fan you're watching it and you're going oh right, okay, I never thought of that before and you know, all these little details so I think there's something satisfying about using your expertise going forward, you know So even at 9 and 10 you were a student you were like wanting to learn, even at that age Oh, I learnt loads of stuff there I'd listened to, back then it was 45 so that's why I have this 45 tattoo.

34:4045 is, so they're the seven-inch singles. And I learned to play from that and slowing them down on the record deck and playing these bits back and forward. But I would do stuff like, if a record faded out too quick, I'd go, fade-outs wrong. Or if the vocal came in too late or too early. So I was starting, I just had this natural ability to sort of like listen to arrangements and I then started to notice in the second verse, I don't know whether this is interesting, but in the second verse, the guitar was like, I was like, what's that? Oh, it's doubled with an organ. Oh, that's good. So when I started making records with the Smiths, that's why there's loads of layers on it because I'd start, and I wasn't even aware I was doing it.

35:26It was just something I twigged from being 10 or 11 about arrangements and certainly where guitars were concerned. So that's held me in good stead. That's why most of the records I've been involved with, I've produced myself, not because I want to be the big I am, but just because I'm sort of naturally good at it. But it gets back to being an expert.

35:45Roy Keane: Do you think up-and-coming artists do that now? Because sometimes we speak about footballers coming through and we'll probably think they don't watch as much football and don't become a student of the game. Do you think that's changed over the years? Well, yes and no, because I think that has changed. but because the technology technology is available now so that's a good thing and a bad thing the good thing about it is if I'd had had that when I was 13, 14, 15 I would have been practicing on a laptop and putting beats together and all of that so I do it there are musicians out there now who are just technically absolutely amazing and they almost take it for granted that they have this tool there that they can make records on.

36:32But then the downside of that is going in a recording studio, for me, it was like going into a temple. I met Quincy Jones once, right? In fact, I met him twice on both occasions. He told me exactly the same thing. So either he didn't remember me or it's a line. But no, he said, let me give you some advice. Whenever you go in the studio, walk in there like it's the first time you've ever been in there. And I know what he means by that. He's like, don't get lethargic, don't take it for granted. So sometimes the technology, and I'm so guilty of this myself, I love guitar technology, can almost make things too easy, really.

37:15So I think times change, don't they? The music reflects the culture. Again, bring it back to football. When I first started going to see Man City in the 70s,

37:30mostly lads but there's girls there too but the rest of the crowd these older people I'm looking at these older lads it reflected the culture in a way I don't know whether that does now so much but it was working class people entertainment everyone dressed up I mean the United fans were next level in the 70s the thing with United fans they all looked like David Bowie Ziggy Stardust but they were proper bruises Chelsea fans remember dressed like clockwork orange and they had the bowler hats and stuff like that but I'd be in I'd see these United fans and because I was a City fan as well I was terrified but I'd see them in Piccadilly Gardens in town on a Saturday morning and I'd be clocking because I was always interested in clothes and all of that and I'd see these lads with red hair no eyebrows and they want to beat you up and they support United it was terrifying but that terrorist culture you know it's this lot there's books about it the way terrorist culture reflects pop culture there's that real crossover football football fans love music and footballers love music musicians loads of them have always wanted to be footballers and um yeah you have that sort of cross pollination of it's part of the culture it's a really fantastic thing so I wonder if I mean I might be getting a bit deep about it but I do wonder I suppose it is like get back to your thing like times just change so the culture the terraces probably do reflect the culture you played football when you were younger yeah you had a go off at year yeah yeah I was I mean like a lot of lads my age it was football and music football and music music always shaded it but I love playing football you know I played for City Juniors for a bit, played for Manchester Boys and all of that.

39:24What position was he, a winger? What did he look like? Yeah, right wing, yeah. But I have a theory about wingers and centre-forwarding, I don't know if she'll tell you.

39:35Well, I had this theory that guitarists are like wingers because they make all this magic and then the guy up front runs around and says, look at me! Look what I did! I'm not going to deny that, I'm not going to deny that. But we need the guy up front, you know. But the thing I learned, it was amazing when I was playing like 15, 16, it was a real, because the lads I played with, somebody went on to, one guy ended up playing for QPR, another guy Wimbledon, somebody played for Bolton and stuff, these lads I was playing with, I suddenly saw the dedication first hand that these lads I was playing with had.

40:16At 15, it suddenly switched. Tackles got a bit more serious. Honestly, even in the dressing room beforehand, I was still like, hey, did you see Top of the Pops last night? I've got a bit of eyeliner on, no shit, right? From my rehearsal the night before, no wonder I was getting kicked all the time. And, you know, one of the Rolling Stones, like in a football kit, it was ridiculous. But these lads I was playing with, I clocked, oh, OK. And then I realised that my mindset was the same as that, but mine was about music and what I saw with my mates or the lads I was playing with I talked to Jack Grealish about this a couple of years ago when we did this thing for a magazine this idea of like you've all had it where this thing of like at 14, 15 your mates think I've heard you talk about it Gary sacrifice, the sacrifice you make at 14, 15 when your mates are in the pub or doing teenage stuff New Year's Eve parties I went to a recording studio because I knew it would be the only time I'd be able to get it for free on New Year's Eve.

41:25No one's going to be there. But all my mates were having a jolly up, you know, I was 17 then. But I didn't think twice about that, you know. And, you know, I think about, you know, when I was playing football, it was Huff End in Manchester. And at Platt Lane it was there for City Juniors. And it'd be like a Tuesday night in November. I know you guys all know about pouring down with rain. And at about 15, I started thinking about my guitar a bit. In the nice warm weather. And all of those lads were like, really loving it. But what I was doing, though, was I'd be stood, literally did that. I'd be stood at the bus stop on the Wednesday night in the rain, going to a really dodgy part of Manchester at 15 to go and rehearse with this band of adults.

42:14I was in a band with grown-ups. There were reprobates looking back at it now. And I loved it. So while my mates were going in the pub and doing whatever teenage... I mean, I was a regular teenage kid, I guess. But that side of it, which I guess you can look back and say dedication, sacrifice. Well, you know what I'm talking about. It can look like a sacrifice, but if you love it... And also, you want to be great, don't you? That was my thing. I mean, of course, there's all this stuff about being famous and wealthy and all that. I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't say that wasn't a thing. But I wanted to be as good as my heroes, really, and I still do.

42:54You met your wife when you were 15 as well, didn't you? Yeah, that was another distraction, I think. Well, we're still together now, so it was the right choice.

43:02Roy Keane: That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah, so 15, and Angie was 14. and yeah, I mean, obviously it's been the most important thing in my life really because all the way through teenage years and through the Smiths and the Smiths breakup and all the bands.

43:20Gary Neville: How did that stay stable at home throughout that whole period? I'm not an idiot. I know when I'm on to a good thing. Well, the thing is, I think, well, Angie was part of the Smiths really. Anyone in the band will tell you that. like there's the four guys and Angie. So it's quite easy to think, oh, I had this girlfriend or wife, and then I go off to fight the Indie Wars, and she's in the kitchen going, no, she came with me. And up until we had the children in the 30s, Angie was there, you know. And then when the kids got a little older, then she's with me there. So we just do everything together, really.

44:00And, I mean, there was a period, obviously, when the kids got out of school and everything, and particularly when I moved to Portland for a bit. then we didn't see each other quite as much, but we've been together since being kids, so, you know, don't know any difference.

44:20What would you have been if you hadn't have been a cricketer?

44:24Gary Neville: Dead. Hello and welcome to the Overlap Stick to Cricket, brought to you by Betfair. I'll be joined by Alistair Cook, Sir Alistair Cook, David Lloyd and Phil Tufnell. The bloke's got to be, hey mate, has anyone ever told you, you look like an old Phil Tufnel? We'll bring you analysis, reaction and interviews in what's going to be a huge year for cricket. Do you see Olly Pope strolling out at number three? Tuffers is more likely to get through his first 20 balls. I think that's a stat. No, that is a stat. Two players, Joe Root, Virat Kohli. If he were playing outside our house, I'd shut the curtains.

45:04Gary Neville: This kid has got something. absolutely the greatest bowler of all time. Would you agree with that? No. No? No. There'll be stories from our playing days. We'll be answering all your questions and we'll be having lots of fun along the way. Strawberries have been up. Where's my coffee gone? No disrespect to Bashir. Like, Warner's one of the best ever. Bashir's not. You dropped Joe Roo. I did drop Joe Roo. Who did you put in instead of him, then? Gary Ballant. I'm going to say there are a few holes in this Indian batting line-up. There are a few holes in the bowling line-up. What's the score going to be?

45:35Gary Neville: Do you get recognized down the abattoir. Do you know what, right? Do you know what? Let the sheep know who you are. Stick to cricket brought to you by Betfair. That was just a warm-up. That's not been recorded. I hope they have. See, you can have a croissant now.

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48:15Gary Neville: Did you ever get dragged into drinking the drugs you hear at rock bands? You were happy to be in the middle of that stuff? I wouldn't say I got dragged into it. I ran headfirst into it.

48:26Oh, Meg, get behind me, Roy.

48:28Gary Neville: I know how it feels, Johnny.

48:31Roy Keane: He tried to give you an out there. Yeah, I know. Trying to help you out there. I know. Was it unavoidable? Well, I wanted to do it because, again, It might be something to do with the culture and the way I grew up and the times were different, 16, 17, but I had a to-do list. It was like, okay, learn to play the guitar, form a really great band, wear sunglasses indoors at all. That was you to do. Take drugs, that sounds fun. Tick. Live a life of a rock star. because Smith got successful when I was 19. And crucially, we didn't have a manager, as I mentioned before. So it was quite a lawless, unsteadying.

49:22I mean, it went into the music and it made us what we are. I do have to say that. But there was no guiding adult around, right? So I'm 19, let off the leash, you know, in my favourite band. And that list I was like, yeah, crash a BMW, tick. Which was more serious than I realised. so all of those things on that list I got to do and then and with drinking drugs got to a point where it just was not a good look anymore and it was self-defeating so in my late 30s I just I'm a real all or nothing person I just packed it in but I didn't just say I can't knock that on the end or whatever I started running marathons and I had to, I always say like I gave myself the gift of like a really full on kind of healthy lifestyle.

50:20I didn't go, oh, you know, because listen, my band have a few beers and my family, you know, I can be around people. I just don't drink, you know, it's just alcohol is not my thing. And it's been like I worked that way for years. And people ask me about it quite a lot in the media and everything about my lifestyle. But But I just saw it as being, like, I didn't have, like, a drink of drugs. Hell, I had a drink of drugs, fantastic time. But when it stopped being fantastic and being counterproductive...

50:48Gary Neville: What did that look like? It wasn't pretty, Gary.

50:52Roy Keane: Like, was there a moment, like, did something happen? Or, like, at what moment did you want just not... Quite a few things happened.

50:59Gary Neville: Did it affect your performance on stage? Did it get to that level? Well, actually, at that point in the late 90s, I was in the studio. I was obsessed with being in the studio. I wasn't really touring that much. So I went for a period when I was in a band called Electronic with Bernard from the Warder and Pet Shop Boys where it was studio, studio, studio. And I was playing on loads of people's records. I loved that. So I wasn't touring so much. And I got to see my children grow up and go to school and all that. And I was in the studio all the time like a studio rat. And that lifestyle became really quite unhealthy and pretty toxic.

51:37and, you know, I started to really, I thought this is getting a little bit out of hand here, you know. I mean, my hangovers, I mean, you could see them. Wow. You could take a picture of them, you know. And then I had a couple of pals around me who were a little bit older and they, one had been in the programme, which I never did, and another one was just like anti-drink. And they were both into running. Now, a weird thing as well, it was like a little bit earlier I'd met, It's a weird story, but I was making a film with her there in New York, and we're in this pretty, really edgy part of town.

52:10And there was this hip-hop band, Naughty by Nature, and we borrowed their crew to, like, look after us. And I was around these guys, and I really was into this early night, as I was super into hip-hop, and I was like, what's with this sort of, well, you guys will never see the videos. You're always doing press-ups, and you're always like, but, but, and that. And these two guys, he said to me, he laid out this sort of super philosophy about strength and having to be on the ball and all that. And I just thought, God, that's so far away from the old rock and roll cliche. And just something in me, it hit me at the right time in my life.

52:42I thought, God, that sounds really happening, really progressive. The point I'm making is my lifestyle choices weren't about, oh, you know, I've had this terrible trauma, I must give it up. I actually went, that looks like I can put my foot on the gas, give me more energy, like progressive. So then for ages I just thought the lifestyle that I then chose, like being, I mean, I did go a bit bananas on the run, I was a bit like Forrest Gump with a guitar. And it's good for, you know, it was good for my sense of self and all that, it was a great time in my life. And so then fitness, everything in my life just went.

53:22Yeah. and I'm convinced it was to do with meditation, giving up the booze. I mean, hey, look, you know, life's life and stuff happens to you and I'm not saying wake up in the morning like, morning, by any means, you know. I've still got a lot of stuff going on there, like all of us, but I can really recommend it.

53:40Roy Keane: You do look great, though. How old are you, did you say? 78. You look fantastic. I appreciate that.

53:51Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. I've got this vision, you're one of the most iconic guitarists of all time. You're just always having a guitar next to you in the house. Is that right? Or do you just go for days without picking it up? No, no, no. You pick up every day? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, before I came out here, you know, it's that classic thing. If you're waiting for a car to pick you up or whatever. You just pick it up? Yeah, they're everywhere. I mean, very, very blessed. They're everywhere. But they've always been, you know, like my mum and dad's, there's always crappy little guitars because they always kept my guitars around.

54:21How many have you got? I've got about 130 odd. I put a book out. I know you're into your guitars aren't you? I put a book out a couple of years ago that I was really proud of because it just did really well and I was trying to do it wasn't really about oh look at my guitar collection I just wanted to do a beautiful book of beautiful objects and we did that. But yeah so no they're always around and I like also if I get a bit if I'm feeling like I'm getting out of practice and this is something that I've really leaned into as I've got older I like practicing

54:51Gary Neville: like yeah you know learning new things all the time or you just think no you're just different variations of what you've done I do learn yeah I do learn things but I've got to say I think and I mean again this might be a stretch but I think this is about you guys might know this I think the stuff that you learned might be skills might be I mean I think mentality is a different that comes with experience but i think stuff that you learn that you're good at when you're 14 15 that developmental stage they're like your go-tos that's what you're good at you know so but i do i do like try and learn new new stuff but i think for what i do i think i know i think i know what i do now really i think for the longest time i was um trying to not be bagged and in electronic I was playing loads of keyboards and now I know what I do.

55:46Gary Neville: You said before Paul McCartney was one of the greatest bass players of all time, which to be fair, probably most people would never have thought of that thinking of Paul McCartney, did think of the songwriting and the singing, but who are, in your opinion, the three greatest guitarists of all time that you've seen that have just completely elevated the skill set? I mean, you've got to say Jimi Hendrix completely, absolutely reinvented electric guitar and he's, you know, it's that overly used word, but he is iconic, you know, in the music he made. And, but in my life, so I started off, my hero was Mark Boland from T-Rex when I was a kid.

56:20I was all about T-Rex because he was little. All my football heroes were always little as well, funny enough, like, even though I was a City fan, if you grew up in Manchester, George Best. No one didn't like George Best. I mean, look at the guy, you know what I mean? But, and Bruce Lee, so 70s kid, right? But Mark Boland, when I was like a 10 or 11, really wanted to do that. And then there was an Irish guy, Rory Gallagher, who I used to follow around and go to all his shows. I got to know before he passed away, which was a real honour. He was a beautiful guy, Rory. And then, I mean, you know, again, it's a bit like you guys talking about footballers.

56:59Prince? Yeah, I mean, next level, absolutely. Well, actually, funnily enough, with Prince, is Wendy Melvoin who played in his band. Yeah. Wendy and Lisa. Wendy and Lisa. She's one of the greatest guitar players I've ever come across. I played with Wendy. She's really brilliant. It's a good point. Yeah, Wendy's amazing. And I say, but Nile Rodgers comes back, you know, Nile was a big, big influence on me. People would never believe that in the Smiths days. And I used to say it even back then because you hear the Smiths and like these indie rock guys. But what he was doing on the left hand, these beautiful chord changes, you know, I want your love.

57:31All that, you know, Lost in Music, we have family all those beautiful things like that so I mean there's a whole long long long list but I'd say Rory and Mark Boland and now Rogers there's a folk guitar player called Bert Janch was a huge influence on me and then everybody then John McGeoch Susie and the Banshees and yeah I'm a real student of it and go on just like you guys if I asked you about Iniesta or I asked you about which Ronaldo it's an amazing subject you know

57:59Gary Neville: and Roy you meet him on your walks on your dog walks Are you walking your dog or are you running? Sometimes we walk in the dogs. Roy will be out with the dogs. But often I'm running, aren't we, when we bump into each other because we live near each other. And it's a good excuse for me to stop. That's the only reason, right? You're having a breather. And I was like, oh, no, don't want to stop you because I'm running. And we're like, no, no. And we have a bit of a chat about football. I was interested in the dressing room. you know and as I said earlier the dynamic of the chemistry between and just what happens with the life of football really and a bit of a chat about Ireland because I'm from an Irish family and talk about coke and stuff like that tea tea we're really rock and roll

58:46Roy Keane: did you go to the FA Cup final or not? oh god when was that? that hasn't happened no no I didn't because I'm trying to be disciplined and not be too distracted and get on with writing some new songs. Yeah. Do you get a go to many of the games of this season? What have you got? Oh, man. Well, like everybody, it's slightly bizarre what's happened. There's all these different theories on the podcast and different fans will say this, that and the other. I've got to say, you know, like, with injuries, I mean, I know every fan of every Premier League side can go, I don't play the injuries card. That's what these lot say to me if I mention Arsenal.

59:30So I'm glad you're mentioning it, John. So go on, you go for it. But if you're going to talk about injuries, I mean, Rodri Ehrlich Harland and Kevin De Bruyne are three pretty important players for City. So, I mean, that's played into it. I don't think it's just that by any means because if you look at what's happened to Phil, as a City fan, if you'd have asked me at any time over the last few years, if the wheels fall off, what's okay? And you go, well, Phil, because he's young, he's not burnt out he's so talented and all of that but you sort of go well even Phil's having a tough time Noel who I'm sure you know what I mean by Noel he said something interesting to me when we went through that start of that spell he said have you ever been on a tour where you've been touring for like 18 months and you've got to you know you're going home you love playing a lot but you know you're going home and then right at the end of it someone says to you five weeks in south america and you just gotta go again oh jesus because i often think i'm asked roy about this as well like i always think like look even if you're playing in the playground or as soon as you cross that white line or in training as soon as you put your boots on you just want to win i did wonder about that when i've heard like ex-footballers burn out over a few years i did go is that a thing in football but i'm sure it must just be the same yeah when i said that i thought right because he's this this group of players I might not have to tell you guys you'll know about it but this group of players the intensity and the manager's so intense and just whether they've just kind of gone I haven't got it in me you know

1:01:05Gary Neville: they've hit a wall haven't they I mean what would you say about it I think they've hit a wall I'm surprised it didn't happen after the treble I thought you'd see a big drop off last year so to do what they did last year and Arsenal what did Arsenal get to 89 points last year I think they've just hit a wall I think physically just maybe gone a little bit older together as well yeah They probably needed a bit of, those players you just mentioned, the injuries they've picked up, they probably needed help and they're the ones who've helped other people in the past and you say maybe they're a little bit and then the players they brought in probably just weren't quite the right players and it's like you're asking those same players against as you've just said, yous have got to go again.

1:01:41They're probably just looking for something. We need a little bit of energy, a bit of sort of... Yeah. Yeah, well, they're up and go. Well, really because of what you're saying there, it's left then, you're looking at the younger players coming through. I know we've got these two, I just heard about these two under 23, captain of Argentina, captain of Brazil. They've just come to City. I mean, that sounds like, on paper, that sounds good. But then you're looking at, it's a funny thing for City fans. As a City fan, I haven't had to think about recruitment for 12 years. I see other clubs and they go, we need new players.

1:02:15That's a new thing to think as a City fan because we've been so spoiled because the recruitment's always, they seem to have always got it almost spot on. And then I'm looking at Mahmoud. I think he's great. But also Kuzinov who's come in, for some reason he's not playing. And then Gonzalez, he looks like a good player. I know he's there for Rodri. I think it was strange he was on the bench in the cup final. Yeah. You know, you just bought him in January. I thought that when I saw that team basically picked, yeah. It was odd. And then also Savinho. I think Savinho's a real confidence player. I think maybe it's one of those things, I don't want to be generalised, but he's a Brazilian winger.

1:02:49and I think if it's not going good for him in a game, I think he runs out of options a little bit. I think he's got to get the first 15, 20 minutes where he's like dazzling and he's thinking, right, I've got this left back. And then he's having a great game. But there was something I noticed that, I can't believe it hadn't occurred to me before, but I was watching, I think it was a home game this season. And I think these players I mentioned, and Nico O 'Reilly's obviously brilliant, but I've watched you guys and talked about people arriving in the Premier League and the intensity of the Premier League.

1:03:25And over the years I've gone, is it really, is the Premier League, is it that physical? Are they getting kicked? It doesn't look like everyone's getting kicked. But I realise what it is now when I saw at close quarters, I saw Mamouche and a couple of other players. They got to 72 minutes and it was like, because they're so brilliant and he loves playing. And at a couple of games, it was like suddenly, just mentally, didn't have it. And all the new players, all, like, set your watch to 72 minutes, they're all done. And I thought, oh, that must be what they mean about the Premier League. Mentally.

1:04:02If you drop it for 90 odd minutes. So as a football fan, that was dead interesting to me. That's why I think now I can see, oh, it's not really about the physicality and being, you know, tackles and all of that. it's about that being switched on for 90 odd minutes. And I think the new players will benefit from a season of that.

1:04:21Gary Neville: So what's next for you? You've brought out a double live album, have you? Yeah, yeah. There's a live album that's just come out and then new stuff, Gary, just working on new stuff. Hopefully, maybe some more collaborations. I've collaborated for quite a long time, really. Well, saying that, I've just done a single with Franz Ferdinand, which I'm really excited about. I love Franz. And then I've done a project that I'm not supposed to talk about because it's not my band, but it's not Oasis. Yeah, just new stuff, maybe some more movie stuff with Hans. I've kind of got plenty to be getting along with, really, with the next album and touring.

1:05:05I've got a gig with Kraftwerk in July, so I've got a tour in America at the end of the year. You've got a bit going on. Quite busy. I'm depressed now. I'm tired out.

1:05:19Roy Keane: Are you ever going to stop? I keep telling you to chill out. You'll never stop. I can't really imagine it, no. I'm not sort of manic about it. I think the romantic in me, right, sort of the 12-year-old goes, I want to do it till I die, you know. Yeah. but I see Roy get out with the dogs and he looks like he's got a pretty good life I think that one I go and see you Roy I want that life it does yeah and you know still doing music I can't imagine a time when I want to do music because it's what I do you know and as I say it is different that's where there's similarities that physicality you're picking what you want to do aren't you you're not being forced into anything

1:06:03Gary Neville: are you no well that's cool isn't it you've got Apart from this. Apart from this enforcement.

1:06:09Roy Keane: Roy Foster. They invited me and I jumped at the chance, yeah. No, that is an amazingly privileged, like yourself, you know, like a really privileged position to be in. When I do do it, I put myself like it's a, you know, like it's a Champions League campaign, doing the next record. I'm not, I'm just not mellow about it. It's like, you know, full on, which I like, the challenge and everything. but yeah, I feel very, very super privileged. Yeah, where I'm at now feels good, yeah.

1:06:40Gary Neville: That's one of the most fascinating hours that we've had in the last two years. Oh, honestly, Johnny. Honestly, it was. Thank you so much. Brilliant. Thank you. Nice one, Jamie. Johnny, last thing. Andrew works for Salford City, is a huge fan. Oh, yeah. And he did a Salford Lads Club campaign. Come in, Andrew. Come here, Andrew. Oh, yeah. Where's Andrew? Come here. Lads Club, yeah. So he did a big Salford Lads Club thing with Salford City. he's a big fan and I said I'd bring you in I've tried to track you down a jacket and it's getting delivered so I'll get you a Salford Lads Club jacket Red is it?

1:07:12No it's black Slimming Well done there mate How's that going? No it's great but as you'll know in terms of Salford as an area it's like kind of that there are no socialist principles of dreams and aspirations and everyone's as valuable as the next person so you've got enterprise but you've also got sport, art and culture and so we're really proud of what Salford's kind of done but places like Salford Lads Club are so important so when we heard that obviously Salford Lads Club was in a bit of trouble financially and stuff like that we thought as a club we had the responsibility do you know what's amazing all over the world I go and someone if they pull out the phone they're either going to show me a tattoo or a terrible picture of me when I was like 19 but there'll be folks I went to Manchester and it'll be someone from America or wherever or Belgium or whatever and they'll be stood in front of Salford Lads Club you know it's become And I can't take credit for that.

1:08:04That was to do with Morrissey, but I'm very proud of that, obviously. We've got, like, a new generation of fans at Salford that are, like, they're all starting now, coming in in, like, Stone Roses jackets and stuff like that. It's really interesting, because we're blessed at Salford at, like, a community club. These 15-year-olds to 25-year-old kids that are, like, just, like... A lad came up to me and goes, oh, have you heard of this? And he showed me a Stone Roses album recently. I was like, yeah, it's all right, lad. But it's really interesting that these lads are now getting into bands and stuff because for about the last ten years I think it's a random fact only two bands have had a number one single in the last ten years and one of them was the Beatles and so I think there was a lot of individualism same with football in terms of the last ten years people like personal brands but all these kids now are picking up guitars so it must be really exciting that we've seen the future of music because of you Johnny it does go in you've done that John it goes in waves though doesn't it I think football is the same really all these different trends but as I say it does reflect the culture I think it always has because it's essentially it started off as a working class thing really working class entertainment don't get too political about it and as the culture changes the bands change it's kind of the way it's supposed to be really I guess thanks for having me thank you fantastic real pleasure mate such a fan of your boy thank you so much Sean was thank God for Sean you know the thing is he was devastated he had to leave to go to Chelsea He didn't want to leave.

1:09:31Remember at the time they were not pressured. Yeah. He never wanted to leave. I call him the derby, man. Remember, the one when he went down the right there. That's nice to be a winner. I was like, oh, no, no.

1:09:43Gary Neville: Johnny, sorry. Look at you coalsing up to him because he called you the lead singer. We're talking about my Premier League winning son, Sean. Talk about a certain goal, Gary. You don't know. I wonder what he scored in the derby, Sean. All right, yeah. Let's go. So, brilliant. Cheers, John. Thanks, Roy. Really good. That was amazing. Thanks to our title sponsors, Disney+. We'll see you next time.