Kane to the Rescue! Mexico Will Be Tough & Who Stops France?

0:00Gary Neville: Just before we get started, I just wanted to say a big thank you to our partner Skybet and please don't forget to subscribe if you like. I hope you enjoy this episode. You want to get your backyard summer ready, but you don't want to break the bank? Wayfair gets it. Planning on dining al fresco or relaxing poolside? Wayfair has everything you need to prep your space. Shop now and save up to 70 % off during Wayfair's 4th of July clearance. Score huge deals on outdoor furniture, area rugs and more. We're talking thousands of products for every style and budget. Plus, surprise flash deals July 6th.

0:33Don't wait. Shop Wayfair's 4th of July clearance now through July 6th at Wayfair.com.

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2:16Gary Neville: The England game was a watch, wasn't it? England. Yeah. got Declan Rice playing in Trent's position now to whip Bowles in do you know we've actually I was really calm in the second half I kept saying we're winning this 2-1 right he was a little bit nervous I just knew we were going to we were creating chances I didn't think I didn't like I didn't like the performance but I actually to be fair thought we're going to get through it because we're actually in Cade Bellingham I think the hydration break helped or what through that's all that matters innit all that matters Kieran is there a fork anywhere?

2:52There is yeah There is yeah In here Thank you

2:55Gary Neville: Do you like them? Very nice Very nice It suits the evening as well though Yeah Do you know what I like? I like coleslaw So do I actually I'm a fan By the way that wasn't a penalty On the Belgium-Tenegall game Do you not think? No that wasn't a penalty I thought Kane's was a penalty Did you think that was a penalty? No No? No I didn't I thought it was No No no I didn't think it was I thought they got it right is that butter that butter just stuck on the end there I don't know you can't stick butter on the ends performing as cheese the long day

3:31Ian Wright: right here yeah yeah tough one that is it not working in here is it on is there a time during You got Modelo? Got this for you. Brilliant, even better. I don't want Modelo. I want to... I love it, yeah. There you go. Oh, that's... How are you? Stros here, Stros here. I'll tell you. How are you doing, bro?

3:52Gary Neville: Ian Senegal.

3:53Ian Wright: Yeah.

3:54Gary Neville: I feel sorry for him. Before the... Before he comes in and says it's a top-level sport and...

3:59Ian Wright: You know the thing is, is that what he said, it kind of makes sense to a certain extent. If you're 2-0, they're not an inexperienced side, they've got experienced players. you know, you're two minutes with five minutes to go. You've got to be looking to shut up shop there. Even though they brought on, I think it was Lukaku, Moriera and the other one, Luke, I can't remember the third guy, the left side of took Doku off for. But like, they brought that on themselves because that can happen. But like, you feel sorry for them. You do feel sorry for them, but again, it's a tough one to take for them because they should be more experienced than that.

4:36Roy Keane: Oh, that's useful. Hey! I was sacked down there ages. Where have you been? What do you mean? Well, I could see Royce when you were done and started. When you said it was 2-0, I was like, I'll head over and then...

4:48Ian Wright: I know. And they just...

4:50Roy Keane: Hello, are you okay?

4:51Ian Wright: Even when Lukaku scored, I thought, well, yeah, they'll shut up now.

4:54Roy Keane: Yeah.

4:55Ian Wright: But it wasn't a penalty. You didn't think it was?

4:58Roy Keane: No.

4:59Ian Wright: No, no, Joe.

5:00Roy Keane: I thought it was. No, Joe, why?

5:02Ian Wright: Yeah. You don't think there was contact on him?

5:04Roy Keane: No.

5:04Ian Wright: Do you know what I think? But that's the thing, because we watch the Premier League,

5:07Gary Neville: we're just taking any kind of contact. OK, do you know what? When a ball gets whipped into the near post and you've got a defender that's sliding in for it with an attacker, that to me basically is who owns that ground.

5:20Roy Keane: Yeah.

5:21Gary Neville: Like, you know what I mean? It's like who owns that ground in front of the defender. The defender's got to go for that. If the attacker gets a touch and then the defender comes through him, it's a penalty. If the attacker doesn't play the ball and he's not really going to play the ball, it's just both of them going for it to me it's not a joke it took two minutes or three minutes no I couldn't believe we were watching it

5:40Roy Keane: like I was watching on my phone about 15 replays you know the thing with it is

5:44Ian Wright: is that Tielemans was going for exactly that

5:47Roy Keane: yeah

5:48Ian Wright: because he never tried he wasn't trying to go for the near post to flick it in with his left foot or the ball even came past on his right foot even if he opened it up he might have been able to flick it in he didn't he didn't actually try to make a move to score

6:01Roy Keane: yeah

6:01Ian Wright: it's just that he went there and just initiated the content.

6:06Gary Neville: It felt like cheating, if I'm going to be a total of this. They've been so sharp on VAR during this tournament to get in and out on decisions and make sure that they don't re-refere the game. He must have watched it, as you say, till 10, 15. Once you've watched it past three, four, five times, you've told yourself, actually, I'm not sure. And then the referee goes over. He spends another two minutes looking at it, so he's not sure either. And I think when you're looking at it that much, in the last minute of a World Cup knockout game, I'm not sure that's a penalty at all.

6:32Roy Keane: Did you all agree that it wasn't a penalty during the game?

6:35Gary Neville: Yeah, we said it wasn't a penalty.

6:36Roy Keane: Oh, OK.

6:37Ian Wright: You know something?

6:39Gary Neville: We didn't think they came more than either, did we? No, no.

6:41Roy Keane: No, Roy just said that.

6:42Gary Neville: No, I didn't think it was. No, I didn't think, no.

6:44Roy Keane: Well, do you think it's because he put his foot down and kind of dove? But do you not think they caught his foot, though?

6:51Gary Neville: But he's going already and he touches it and he's already falling before.

6:56Roy Keane: I suppose the one thing you can say is whether they are or they aren't, it's a consistency isn't it between the thing is

7:03Ian Wright: for them to not even look at concert but then they're looking at that for that amount of time yeah yeah inconsistencies is creeping in because they were doing it pretty well up to this point it felt like they were doing it like the like even the referee in the England game in his real time he just went nope

7:21Roy Keane: yeah

7:21Ian Wright: and then when you watched it back at first you think what he's not even looking and you watch it's not a bad shout to be honest this referee for this one I think once they've looked at it once they could see, you know something, he's not even making a genuine attempt to try and score a goal here.

7:36Gary Neville: I don't think the VAR that did that decision on Belgium-Senegal is getting another game. He shouldn't.

7:40Roy Keane: Why do you think that's a... He's going home with Senegal.

7:44Gary Neville: They've got to be gutted. They've been quite strong around re-refereeing and they've been quite good with it and they've been quite quick on decisions. And you might think, OK, they've got things right or wrong at certain points, but they've been really sharp on it and they've thought, right, we're not re-reffing games, we're not interfering. And he's gone and interfered there in the 119th, 20th minute of a...

8:02Roy Keane: I don't think the referees have been too bad, if you think about the amount of games. It hasn't been that much controversy.

8:08Ian Wright: You know, with it as well, Jill, when you look at that, where because I'm thinking they've looked at it so much, so many times, I should say, they've looked at it so many times, I'm thinking, well, the game's over now anyway. It could easily just say, listen, that's not a penalty. Play the game out, it would have went to penalties.

8:25Roy Keane: Yeah.

8:25Ian Wright: It would have been fair. I think that's very unfair on Senegal. If I'm Senegalese, I'm absolutely fuming with that.

8:32Roy Keane: They deserve to win as well, don't they?

8:34Ian Wright: I feel cheated there. Absolutely feel cheated there. Yeah. You know, you can't excuse them for not shutting up shopping and, you know, managing the game better. But, like, I feel a bit cheated there because it's not a pen for me. Not for me, Clive.

8:53Gary Neville: The Belgian manager also, he'd taken De Bruyne off, he'd taken Doku off almost a little bit like Bielsa did almost like I'm going to go down I'm just going down fighting I'm going down in flames you know what I mean literally I'm going I mean I'm taking everything with me you know what

9:07Ian Wright: it really works out for a manager when they do that because like now you see at the end you see Doku and you see De Bruyne getting amongst people like you know saying oh well done this and that because now they've got to think oh we've got another chance here I'm going to have to play better in the next game or whatever they're thinking they had to liven themselves up there because if they lose that game which they thought they were going with five minutes to go they're probably thinking right fucking man I'm going to say so but then now can't do anything yeah the world's

9:33Roy Keane: celebrating because didn't Trossard have a bit of a thing with Telemans but then afterwards well you don't mind that do you I think a high performance level sport well they should be having a go at each other you're going to have the Belgian

9:45Ian Wright: side and they're two quality players in the Belgian side and I can't remember what it was it's something to do with being on the back post or something I don't know what it was

9:53Gary Neville: there's like an implosion happening though wasn't there yeah strawberry milk milk shake from Shake Shack.

9:58Ian Wright: Yeah, because I had a very big lunch. What did you have? I had chicken curry. Chicken curry I had with rice. And I had a lot.

10:08Roy Keane: This is not the weather for a chicken curry with rice. How hot has it been today? We walked the Brooklyn Bridge.

10:14Gary Neville: The air comes stopped working in there. We were up in the studio up there and the sun was beating down our backs. No one would have lied. Oh my God.

10:21Roy Keane: God.

10:21Gary Neville: It was tough. It was a tough half hour.

10:23Roy Keane: Was it?

10:23Gary Neville: Oh, yeah. Oh, what do you ask? The sun was right on our backs, and the air con wasn't working, which was absolutely...

10:28Ian Wright: This is my treat. I haven't been having any treats, really.

10:31Gary Neville: You have? You've eaten a lot of treats?

10:33Ian Wright: I haven't had a lot of treats, gal. You know, even in the studio, I'm not eating a lot of this stuff to the point. Was it two custard creams I had today?

10:41Gary Neville: Me and Roy shared a full dairy milk. See, I did do that.

10:43Roy Keane: How can you just eat two biscuits? If I open a pack of biscuits, they're gone.

10:47Ian Wright: Because I had to be disciplined, because I knew I was having this, Jill, and I can't have another one of these for a while.

10:51Gary Neville: Jill, Roy opened a pack of biscuits, and I flipped the table and all of his tea went all over his biscuits. He put his feet on the table and the table flipped. And literally soaked his entire biscuits. Was he fuming? Yeah. He wasn't happy.

11:03Roy Keane: He did say he's not going to come up because he's not speaking to you. And I'd just seen him in the lift because he's got soggy biscuits. You know what? He's just walked into the hotel. He had sliders on, shorts, his bag. I said, have you just played? He never really looked like, you know, when you put your sliders on.

11:23Gary Neville: He's got the retro Adidas bag. He looks like something from the 1960s, doesn't he?

11:31Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. They're joining us all tournament long, and we're delighted to have them along with us for the ride. We've got plenty more episodes on the way, so hit subscribe, get your comments in and stick with us all summer.

11:49Roy Keane: Oh, doesn't he look like he's played? I said I'd just seen you in the lift. I couldn't find my key for it. This is in my room. Oh. Gary was telling us that he'd give you soggy biscuits.

12:01Gary Neville: I flipped the table.

12:03Roy Keane: Did you not expect Belgium to come back then? Oh, no. When you texted them and said come over. They were done, weren't they?

12:09Gary Neville: They were really bad. They started badly. They were flat. So bad over. It's never over. I know, but that game was over, Roy, to be fair. That game was over. I mean, they should not have let that up, Senegal. That was like the most comfortable last 32 performance other than France for any team.

12:28Roy Keane: Yeah.

12:28Gary Neville: And they've lost.

12:29Roy Keane: They're going to be absolutely devastated. They've got to have a World Cup.

12:32Gary Neville: You've got to have a World Cup, like with two numbers to go.

12:35Ian Wright: That would be a hard one for them now. Can you imagine them now?

12:38Roy Keane: I went to the France-Sweden game. Oh my God, watching France live.

12:43Ian Wright: Were they quick? It's quick, isn't it?

12:45Roy Keane: Elise, I just, I can't even explain watching him, his movement. Like, I know obviously all the talks about Mbappe and he's doing absolutely brilliant. But they're just, yeah, to watch them live, yeah.

12:58Gary Neville: It was a different level. That was scary.

12:59Roy Keane: And it was so hot as well at the stadium.

13:02Ian Wright: I saw a stat about their running and what they've done to this point in respects of the exertion of their team. and they're like, out of all the teams, they're like 18th, 19th in the running. They're not even exerting themselves. Distance or speed. Distance and speed. They're not exerting themselves. They haven't even clicked into another gear yet. They don't have to do that.

13:24Roy Keane: Right, yeah, I came away yesterday and I said they didn't even get out of second gear, that game. It was literally like a training game. The first, I think it was 25 minutes. They probably had about five... They could have been about 4-0 up.

13:37Gary Neville: If they don't win it, they're letting themselves down.

13:39Roy Keane: Yeah.

13:39Gary Neville: Honestly, they're letting themselves down. as a squad it's going to take something it's going to take

13:43Ian Wright: an Argentinian the warrior nature of Argentina it's not going to be to be fair

13:50Gary Neville: Patrick was in the studio who was you think could stop them yeah that's what Patrick we did a thing after he said Argentina the mentality the horribleness the experience Messi Messi and Alvarez up front score one or two goals and you've got that Martinez and Romero you know tough nasty experience You know, I'd love a huge support. Support, yeah. I just think this is France's one. For Argentina we're a little bit fortunate in the end in guitar. This to me is just a team that looks a different level.

14:22Ian Wright: Was it Moana or something? You should have scored at the death in guitar.

14:28Gary Neville: In the bench though for France, you've got four or five players that can come on and replace the three or four that are on.

14:33Ian Wright: Yeah, like Cherky's coming on. Did you see Cherky? How he reacted to... Did you see it Roya? What did he do? To Deschamps. But is it all real, right? I never know. This is what I'm saying. Is it AI or is it not? I saw something. I thought, is that real? It's like Deschamps went over to say, you know what I mean, probably say, listen, don't worry. And you know something? He just moved him away and he moved away from him. And I think to myself, why would you do that when your team is probably going to get to the final? You're going to, at some stage, probably be called on. And you've got the ump.

15:05Ian Wright: A manager who's come back from seeing his mum, burying his mum, and you haven't got the decency to be able to give him that. It's a real arrest. If it's real... You know, the last few weeks, I'd be reading quotes, what I'm supposed to have said, and people come...

15:20Roy Keane: Oh, false quotes are unbelievable. Yeah, it's on Twitter, but it's like you and the stick to football, but it's like reaction straight after the game, but it's not even your quotes. But they look verified accounts. It's dangerous, really. It is dangerous. I knew it wasn't real because it said that you liked me.

15:38Gary Neville: I'm suing him.

15:42Roy Keane: But it is bad.

15:43Gary Neville: But Justin, Patrick was saying yesterday about the French, the two things were complacency, which I don't see at all after what happened. The other thing is probably egos. I can't see that either because they look like they're all together, don't they?

15:56Ian Wright: They look together because you could see, even if there was going to be, it would probably be Mbappe and Dembele. They look so tight. and like Elise you know when you see a player who's the manager obviously said when he wants to give it to him wherever he goes you just see them give it to him Mbappe just gives it to him it's together they know exactly what they want to do but that's where the manager comes into isn't it managing the group so whatever about tactics since you've got brilliant players but you know Deshaun would be on top I think he'd be on top he's an experienced manager and they've got a reason more cups he's involved in as a player and as a manager this could be the third find him a role.

16:34He's got an idea what he's doing.

16:35Ian Wright: And Roy, you hear the players, I think it was Cermainy saying about the manager and what he's been through. And this is his last tournament. We know it's his last tournament. We want to make sure that we do it for him. They're focused, they've got everything. Maybe Zidane is taking over. Is that confirmed? Yeah, it will be Zidane. That's what they say. That would be amazing. He's not been confirmed but that's what they're saying. The rumour is that Zidane will be guided if they win the World Cup, wouldn't he? He's got to take over that team.

16:57Roy Keane: They've got so much freedom though in how the play like they don't even like stick to the positions still they're just moving all the time like Mbappe will drop into the 10 then he'll pop out onto the wing I just think how do you mark against that it's like whereas I think sometimes when you watch some teams we just stick to our positions don't we there's not a lot of movement

17:16Gary Neville: we didn't get a chance to say at the end of the game yesterday but they're not talking about low blocks are they how do you break down a low block

17:21Roy Keane: you know what I mean

17:22Gary Neville: Sweden sat there literally at the edge of the box 4-4-2 and they're just literally ripping through them

17:27Ian Wright: but then what happens is that when you look where Mbappe picked the ball up. It doesn't get any lower than that. But then his individual brilliance, wasn't it? Just a shimmy. Yeah, a little shimmy and it's a goal. It was just like, you just think to yourself, because afterwards you say, well, how do you stop him? What are you going to do? Are you going to put a man marker on Elisa? Are you going to double up on Dembele or Dwayne?

17:49Gary Neville: The best teams right. It's like the Manchester City over the last 10 years, the Barcelona with Pepo, the United team, or great teams, they don't have excuses. around low blocks, or we were playing against a team that were physical, or we were playing against a team that were countering. They just beat them. Can we say they're sitting deep instead of low blocks? Well, yeah, sitting deep, you know what I mean? Do not like it.

18:09Roy Keane: You know what I mean?

18:09Gary Neville: So I'm saying to you, a team sits deep, that is against every top team. Every top team has to face that 20, 30 times a season. And you've got to beat that 20, 30 times a season. I think you should enjoy that. I think if a team's... Sit deep. I know they sit low blocks, do you? Sit deep. That's a challenge. You're going, we got him, we got him, we got exactly... We'll sort it out. one where even though the French go that was from a corner just a little movement I think it was from a corner I can't remember and he's coming on the back of somebody then there's a shit and you go listen we'll find a way the top players find a way

18:38Roy Keane: I think when I was watching them sitting deep they believe so much in their one on one alright great we'll go and attack you nearer to your goal that's what I think their mentality is if you all sit in and what they do Jim and when they try it and they just say they do lose it with a pass or a dribble they're cool as a breeze because we're going to get loads of average.

18:59Ian Wright: We're going to eventually go past somebody and then the whole picture changes. And then what happens, Roy, is that... So they're doing pretty well. How long was it before they actually scored?

19:08Roy Keane: Oh, you know what? I took a picture of the scoreboard. It was on 44 minutes. And I was about to put on my thing. Can't believe this is nil-nil. And he scored. Honestly, Jill, the thing is... It was about 44 minutes.

19:19Ian Wright: So Sweden will be thinking, they'll be looking and be thinking, right, we're going in at half-time, nil-nil, exactly what we want. And then he just comes out with that. Yeah. Yeah, he comes out and then what happens is...

19:29Gary Neville: I'm not the right person to demonstrate this, right? I love going to demonstrate this. Honestly, that's not what I like. Do you know what you're reminding me of? Do you know the Brazilian Ronaldo? Yes, R9. He once ran at me for Inter Milan in the San Siro in the quarterfinal of the Champions League game. Do you remember? Yeah. I don't remember that incident. I don't remember that game. He just... Yeah, it's that. You just do that. It's that. Honestly, no word of a lie, I swear. And he went past me, I went, what was that? I think I was a decent defender What was that? And it was the power The speed It's this little thing It's like what the fuck

20:03Ian Wright: You know something It was like Again they'll be thinking We've done really well We've held them out And then they score a goal like that When they've defended And then you're thinking You're going at half time You're thinking Oh gosh Then they come out And bam They just bam bam bam It's like So demoralising

20:18Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football Is brought to you by Skybet You want to get your backyard summer ready, but you don't want to break the bank? Wayfair gets it. Planning on dining al fresco or relaxing poolside? Wayfair has everything you need to prep your space. Shop now and save up to 70 % off during Wayfair's 4th of July clearance. Score huge deals on outdoor furniture, area rugs, and more. We're talking thousands of products for every style and budget. Plus, surprise flash deals July 6th. Don't wait. Shop Wayfair's 4th of July clearance now through July 6th at Wayfair.com.

21:20Wayfair, every style, every home. of the fortune 100 and built to work in over 175 languages so you can reach your audience in theirs here's the wild part record yourself for just 15 seconds and hey gen builds an ai avatar that makes professional videos for you on demand so you can post everywhere your audience is as yourself without filming every time your first three videos are free at hey gen.com slash pod that's h e y g e pcn.com slash pod.

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21:56Ian Wright: That's how podcast advertising works. A host who's built real trust with their audience talks about your brand in their own words, in their own voice. It doesn't interrupt the experience. It's part of it. With Acast, you can access the world's largest podcast marketplace. Choose the right shows, the right audiences, the right format. Then watch the data tell you it worked. You're not buying impressions. You're buying influence. Learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise.

22:31Gary Neville: England's path to winning the World Cup. Mexico in Mexico City. Brazil in Miami. I think Argentina in where? Where do we call it? Atlanta. Atlanta and then France in New York. Yeah, but you're making them games sound like, obviously, Bayern of Mexico went, like, oh, they're away from home and all of them. No, no, I'm just saying. All right, because the other teams are away from home. Yeah, no, I'm just saying, that's where they're playing at. So, no, but Miami's a factor. Four tough away games there. But Miami's a factor with the 32 degrees, with the humidity. So, I mean, look, where are we at with England?

23:05Gary Neville: We've just seen England say, Jill, come to you first.

23:07Roy Keane: Yeah.

23:09Gary Neville: we said I think the other day that we're sort of at the moment you're half praising England because they're getting through games and they're sort of showing that resilience and there's part of you thinking they're going to need to really step up a level at later games in the tournament yeah do you want a strawberry milkshake before we start no it's too late

23:25Roy Keane: I'm looking at it now is it you said we get to

23:27Gary Neville: the final the other day where are you at with that

23:29Roy Keane: no you know what I'm all in favour of hydration breaks after today I thought up until the hydration break we weren't good enough at all I was actually impressed by Congo I thought they were going to sit in but I thought they had some great attacking play the two wingers were really really good but you know what I think we found a way to win and you look at teams like Germany Holland they're not here Sweden they're not here and the fact that we're still here I think that's a massive positive but yeah there's bits where we need to be better yeah

24:04Gary Neville: Roy where were you with that I mean obviously we just discussed it out there then in terms of just the general wider sort of thinking about the tournament and where England are at. Well, what we said the other day, we think it'd be qualifying, semi-fine, the best. Isn't that what we said? And I think that's the same. How does he change that? What would he have to do, Roy, to change your thinking around beating Brazil and beating Argentina? No, I think with... And Mexico, for that matter. Yeah, no, I think they're better than Mexico. I think we'll beat Mexico. I know there's challenges there. Obviously, we've got to Mexico, our home.

24:33Momentum, and they'll be quick, all the usual stuff. But when we were out in England today, truthfully we knew they were going to win sounds bizarre didn't we great chance you got Kane on the pitch so that's my reason for going why do you think they beat Mexicans I think they've got they've got a few world class players that can get them out of trouble and then that's when to me then that's when the real trouble starts regarding maybe if we're thinking it's going to be Brazil or certainly Argentina in the semi-final that's where I think they'll come unstuck I think it'll just be a couple of games too many I think the again I'll go back to what I said from the start whether it be France or Argentina I think we'll just have a bit too much for them

25:07Gary Neville: how do we change that how do we get to a point whereby in this tournament we grow and we step up from a thinking now that we're all thinking individuals go I don't think they've got too much to go that's why I'm saying they'll get to quarters of semis you don't think they can even if individuals we just spoke about but I think a couple of individuals that are world class have kicked in but they can only get you so far as well I know I know you can say Argentina Messi can get you over the line but I still think England them little issues aren't about defensively I think they'll be caught out. We're honourable France.

25:38They've got more gears. I don't know if England have too many gears to go. I think they can get a bit better and they can tidy up a few bits. But I don't think they've got another 20, 30 % to go. Whereas I think the French team, I still think they're like, we're at it. But if we have to go up a few more gears, we will do. And maybe the same with Brazil. And certainly I think Argentina. I think they can rise to occasion a bit more maybe than England.

26:01Roy Keane: I think the back line is a big one. I think we just need some organisation and you'll know better than me but I don't know, like putting the stones in there maybe concert right back I just feel like there's no organisation at the minute we're seeing all over the place and you've even got forwards coming back to defend which you admire the work rate but that for me shows that we're just we're not set But today, and there's also that worry but for me also for the goalkeeper I don't know if the goalkeeper's going to get in and out of jail on a bad day or when he gets in three or four work he's got to do if he's got anything about himself he'd be saying I should have saved that and I'm not one of these for a keeper shouldn't be beating the near post a keeper obviously can be beating the near post but if you get a good hand to it I think he'd be disappointed with that

26:43Gary Neville: I genuinely think I see talented defenders who I think one on one if I think about compared to myself one on one I think they're better than me defending because they're sharp they're quick they're Rapid, all four of them really, Konza, Gay, Spence, they're really quick. But I don't see a unit, I don't see a back four. I see four defenders, not a back four. So if you've got four defenders that are talented, what you've then got to do is have a unit in front of them that protects them. And what I see in front of them are two quite talented central midfield players who can get about the pitch. But then I see wide players who you've got to attach your wide players defensively to your two central midfield players.

27:26Gary Neville: we talked about United didn't we with Casemiro and he was in midfield for United last time it was Casemiro and Bruno when Amorim was the manager and they just had these massive gaps alongside them and even the goal that Jed Spence makes the mistake on at the back post Madweke's like 15-20 yards further up the pitch maybe than he should be if he just narrows round and he gets tight but you think

27:45Ian Wright: that's a huge mistake from Spence that's what I'm saying I think it's hard on Spence because he's got to come across because you said the two centre arms came across because of Wan-Bissaka he had to come across

27:56Gary Neville: as a mistake so right if that's me at right back right there's no way around it it's a tough one for him because I think he's blocked in terms of vision because I don't think he can see because of four players but Gary

28:05Ian Wright: the guy who went he had to go with him he can't leave him I think what he's done

28:10Gary Neville: he's got a guy there I think he's gone in late and when he's gone in late the guy's blocking his view for the ball and I think what's happened then is he's a bit like that so he can't see it come round it's a tough one but right you do have to class it as a mistake as a right back look you can't not do He's a little bit about Jordan Pickford. It's a tough one, but it is a mistake that that's gone in there.

28:27Ian Wright: If Jed Spence goes half and half, the way that ball came over, the reason why it went over Jed to go to the other fella is because Jed was there. Otherwise, that would have been free. The guy would have been free to get that on his own. I think Jed has to come back. Nonny has to come back. You know, your decision-making, just say it's a tough one, we go, it's just football, it's not a big mistake, but he'd be disappointed, we're a bit more experienced. But that's where you go, I could have done better, but your keeper's got to help you. How many times did the keeper got you out of jail and you go, listen, thanks for saving me.

28:58Well, their keeper did.

28:59Gary Neville: We haven't got a board, have we? We haven't got a board in drawing, have we? He was shocking for the board. Yeah, he was, but he's up to that.

29:04Roy Keane: Roy, there's two ways

29:05Gary Neville: that you can stop that goal, right? I reckon in the biggest games that we would have played, if I'd have come in there and made that mistake, I think Bex would have been close enough to get back in there and affect that shot. So, nonny matter what, yeah. So, nonny should have been a little bit narrower and tighter and attached himself to his full-back and to his central midfield player. Yeah, but that's not his game, as you said, doesn't it? And then you've got Marcus on that side, who, again, he's not going to narrow himself and tighten himself. So my view is that if you've got a back four that are just not a unit and they're going to get pulled apart a little bit and some...

29:33Gary Neville: And then, like you're saying, Madweke's not linked to the change. Madweke and Rashford are not. Rashford's not linked to... Then you've got to read this year. And what was the big moment in the game? Oh, Visser. Visser chance.

29:42Roy Keane: Oh, yeah, that was... I looked harder to miss. They've got to be 2-0 down, right? No, it has to be 2-0. Of course it is. If you miss that in training, you're looking at one.

29:50Ian Wright: Are you concentrating? Are you messing around in training? Honestly, if you miss that in training, people are taking the piss. Because it was a terrible miss. It's a miss that... When you miss that kind of chance, you cannot win a football match missing chances like that. You just can't. You cannot. It's the easiest chance because it actually came deflected off of the defence. It slowed the ball down even more for him.

30:13Gary Neville: Do you remember what Gareth did in the last tournament? I think he actually, in certain games... I think, did he play Jude just off the left? I mean, we can't do this, by the way, but Jude off the left a little bit to narrow everything to make us a little bit more compact. Do you remember when he did that?

30:24Roy Keane: They were struggling, weren't they? Because did they have Foden? They had Foden there.

30:28Gary Neville: And I think what he did in the end, he put sort of like, I think he put sort of like, he just narrowed the midfield. I just wonder now that we're going to Mexico, we've got Jude and we've got Harry, and they're unbelievable. We'll come on to them in a minute. I just wonder whether he's got to put, I know we've got three in midfield with the two, with Anderson and Rice and Bellingham. I'm wondering whether he's got to put three, almost like one wide player and be a little bit lopsided. Maybe Nico O 'Reilly can... Maybe he will do that. So maybe he took someone in off the left. I don't know who that is.

30:55Gary Neville: Maybe it's... I can't even think who it would be. But then you've got maybe like... So where's Declan? No, you've got Declan and Anderson in there. But maybe somebody tucks in off this side so that Nico O 'Reilly can be the left foot that goes round. But maybe you've got a wide player that's done one side. Maybe it's Rodgers just tucked in narrower. I don't know. It'd be Gibbs-White probably if you said that you had Gibbs White here you'd narrow him in and you'd play him there you can't say that because we haven't no I know but my point is if you had him you'd tuck him in off that left alongside Declan and Anderson and then you'd have Jude in front with Harry but you used to be a bit lopsided and you'd just narrow that midfield a bit

31:28Roy Keane: I do think the wingers sometimes because I think I've liked Anderson this tournament but I think sometimes when the winger is out of position he's then thinking I'll go and do it and then he's getting exposed but only because he's trying to fix the problems on his own but I do think he's been very isolated sometimes in that position could England manager be thinking also that the way he's he's looked at it is I'm just going to go and try and win the game and give up some chances and I've got players up front he looks too he looks too open I don't know but maybe that's his attitude maybe he's got the job is he saying we're going to score more than them no but that might be his mindset going when you've got Kane and Bellingham you think we'll obviously give up a few chances which they have done they gave up two goals against Croatia Ghana had a couple of chances could have had a penalty or whatever okay Panama were poor the O 'Connor should definitely score two they should have scored two maybe he's thinking that's the risk I want to take I think you accept it with the Croatia one when it's 4-2 but then Garnier like do you know what I mean why don't you accept two against Croatia no but I'm saying when we score four and you concede two you're like if that's the way we're going to play then fair enough but I think in some of the games I just well it was four against Croatia

32:36Gary Neville: but it should have been seven or eight lots of chances I mean Anthony Barry is coming in at half time during these interviews he's getting more nervous by the game the poor lad He keeps getting sent out by top. And he won the big chance as a Kane. Was that against Ghana?

32:47Roy Keane: Yeah. So if he scores that, then you go, hey, this is a little... Yeah. Again, the bottom line, it might have helped me concede. If you score more than the opposition, it's not bad, is it? No.

32:55Gary Neville: The likelihood is that he's going to probably stay with his two wide players, his two in midfield, Declan and Anderson. What do you mean? So what, Saka and Gordon? No, no, no, Madwekia or Saka with probably Rashford, I think, again, maybe. I think probably Rashford. I thought Gordon... I'm just saying, I thought Gordon... Yeah, he came on, okay. Okay, but do we think... But again for Gordon, sorry, but maybe coming off the bench, it's a different role for a player. He's not getting that responsibility if you're starting the game.

33:23Ian Wright: With Marcus starting, it just feels like, as much as we feel like something's going to happen, it doesn't happen enough for the amount of time he's on. I know, but isn't it interesting? Because Rashford, Rashford, we kept saying, Rashford's still a handful, isn't he? Yeah. Of course, question mark, so then again a couple of times, concentration and product. But when you're talking about other countries where players are making mistakes and giving away they're giving the benefit out because you go all he needs to do is get one right whereas an England player will lose a few times it's like oh get him off whereas sometimes you have to go no that's you're going to get the good and the bad with these players Rashford, Gordon today you're on about assists like his first ball he's just he's lofted into a dangerous area and his second one to Kane Kane has to do a little bit of work so sometimes the attacking players you have to take the good and the bad with them

34:05Gary Neville: do we think he'll interfere and do something different for these next like what well what I'm saying if you think about in the 1990 World Cup for instance when they changed the whole they went to five at the back now look I don't see this with Thomas Tuchel but do you think the players went out of me and they said look it's just not right we're getting through but it's just not right do we need to do something to interfere with this

34:23Ian Wright: I can't see them doing that with Thomas Tuchel

34:25Gary Neville: not in a five but maybe something in midfield a four and maybe a narrow midfield do you think he'll change I think he'll stick the two wide still with Harry up front and then obviously the two and the one in midfield I think he'll stick with what he's doing I did like Madweki

34:36Roy Keane: today though I thought he put some decent balls in. Did you just like him?

34:39Gary Neville: I think Madwek is at the moment a lot better

34:41Ian Wright: than Saka in terms of starting. He's the best out of the wingers at the moment. But he can frustrate you don't really. Exactly. I think we're settling for something that we need more of. Because he's the best of a, at the moment, out of the four of them, he's the best one out of the four of them. And it's not like he's pulling, he's just doing what he should be doing. And like, you know, that's what we need from a couple of them. This is a World Cup, they need to be going to that next level of what they're doing.

35:08Gary Neville: I think Madweki, to be fair, I do think I agree with you. I think he has to start on the right. I think he's the one. I think on the left maybe, you know, does he stick with Marcus Rashford or does he pull in someone a little bit narrow? I don't know who that player is, by the way. Rodgers, that just plays a little bit narrow on that left, tucks in alongside sort of what would be the two midfield players. I'm saying that, but when somebody, what's worked a little bit, when they have the wide players, that Bellingham, it is leaving room for him to start running to those. Yeah, so does he stick with Marcus Rashford then, you think, and just go to the two wide players?

35:39Ian Wright: I'll go with Roy with Rashford, because I think Gordon might be that guy that comes on for 25, 30 minutes and he's more comfortable. And if Mexico are having some decent possession, and Marcus, if he's had it and he wants to run him behind,

35:52Gary Neville: he's a handful. Do you make this game, Mexico, England, if you were sort of putting a percentage on it now, are you what, 55 to England, 45 to Mexico, 60-40 England? Yeah, Gary, it's... What are you thinking? No, confidence. I was confident today. Confidence. Well, Ian, today, if you remember in the second half when we were 1-0 down, I'm usually the panicker. I was so confident we were winning today. I was like, as sure as eggs is eggs, we're going to get one. I said, we'll score in the 85th, 86th minute or 89th minute, and we did.

36:21Ian Wright: I'd put it 50-50.

36:23Gary Neville: 50-50 Mexico. 50-50 simply because, you know, we know we've got a couple of match winners

36:29Ian Wright: and I think what balances it out is the atmosphere, the fact they're at home. Yeah, that levels a lot. You know, that will level it out. But, like, I just think that it's got to be a game where the guys go into it. Like, I remember Gary said today, yeah, nice words. But you've got to go into a game like that, the Azteca stadium for England to beat the home nation in it, to get through. That kind of takes you somewhere else. They've got to... And every game we've seen in the playoffs so far, again, we go back to the top players turn up. They turn up. So you'll still be looking towards Kane and Bellingham.

36:58These boys, you saw it with France. You saw it yesterday live, Jill. You see it today. Even Rice, Rice. He said Lukaku scores today. He's played seven games all year, but he's got a goal record, 90-odd goals. Lads know how to score, but the big games...

37:09Ian Wright: You know something as well, Roy? You see, like, Deca had to move from midfield, go to the right-back, and put in a performance. We just need people to put in a performance to kind of, like, galvanise Jude and Harry to go and win the game for us. That's what we need now. We need them to fucking come to the party now. But I do think they have that mindset. I do think they look at these players and go, they will get us over the lane. Yeah. Hopefully they can get them. We're obviously the final... We've got two of them. You know what I mean? We know they've got Messi, like France have got them and we know that Argentina's got Messi.

37:41Ian Wright: We've got two.

37:43Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. OK, let's do the top English football players of all time. Top three. Because it's been said today by... I think it was... Top three? We should be doing top five. Like in position? No, the top three. Was it Declan Rice? No, it was Declan Rice said it today. Yeah, Declan Rice I think is the greatest English football player, Harry Cade of all time.

38:07Roy Keane: Yeah, he could taste it.

38:09Gary Neville: Greatest English football player of all time, the top three. So we're throwing Bobby Charlton out there. We've got to go Bobby Moore in there. I'll throw Kevin Keegan in there. I'll throw Wayne Rooney in there. David Beckham. David Beckham, Stephen Gerrard. We'll go Peter Shilton maybe, 125 caps. Frank Lampard in then Frank Lampard going back the time it's obviously Stanley Matthews Stolz has got to be

38:35Ian Wright: in the conversation

38:37Gary Neville: he has I don't think you think of it because of his England career and in retirement I don't think you're going to put him in there oh you mean England players yeah I think just England players he is an England player yeah he is but my point is I just don't think he'd get in the top three I love him to bits by the way I just think that certain people's names has to be mentioned okay let's keep mentioning them Gaza are we throwing Gaza's name in there 100 % We love Gaza. Gary Lineker was top scorer for a long time. Jimmy Greaves. Stuart Pearce. Stuart Pearce.

39:06Roy Keane: Our goalkeepers.

39:08Ian Wright: Did you mention Brian Robson?

39:10Gary Neville: Brian Robson. Yeah.

39:13Roy Keane: It's so hard to pick three from that.

39:16Ian Wright: But like, you know, yeah, but like Bobby Charlton's one. Bobby Charlton's definitely in it. I think Bobby Charlton's 100 % in it. He's definitely in it. So that leaves two.

39:23Gary Neville: I think 80 goals in 115 games. he's obliterated

39:29Ian Wright: the goal scoring

39:30Gary Neville: Keane Shearer sorry

39:31Ian Wright: Alan Shearer needs to go there Alan's name you've got to mention now but like what I'm saying is is that Bobby Charlton Harry Kane for a shot for sure

39:42Roy Keane: Peter Shelton's appearances for a goalkeeper I always think it's so hard to get like has he got 120 appearances or something 125 that is incredible how many did Bobby Moore play how many games did he play I don't think he played 100 Bobby Moore

39:55Gary Neville: 106 or something oh did he oh you might have just played that Man it, man it.

39:58Ian Wright: Can you check Bobby Moore?

39:59Gary Neville: Did Bobby Moore have 100 games for England? 108. Wow. Bobby Moore's something to have to get. He left it in the World Cup.

40:05Roy Keane: I think Kane's just saved us so many times that I think he gets into that bracket.

40:11Gary Neville: Do you think Bobby Charlton, number one? I think Bobby Charlton's number one. I can't take Bobby Charlton from number one from a point of view of the greatest English player. He's won the Champions League. He's won the World Cup.

40:24Ian Wright: He's like... He won the league as well with United, didn't he? Did he win the league? Yeah, a few times. And a cool guy. Cool series, yeah.

40:29Gary Neville: Number two, are we going Harry Kane or Bobby Moore? Probably have to go with Bobby Moore. Number two. Bobby Moore?

40:36Ian Wright: Yeah, he's lifted. And you know what we're talking about? Harry, number three. We've got a good mix here. You've got a defender, a midfielder, and a striker. And a striker, yeah. OK. And maybe put a goalkeeper top four. Or Peter Shelton for? You know, sorry, no. What's fine? Peter Shelton can't make goalkeeper over Gordon Banks for me. Oh, Gordon Banks, yeah? I'm sorry. The Golden Bank save alone from Pele,

40:57Gary Neville: there's no way is Shelton making a save like that. So Harry Kane, I mean, Roy, you were sort of like, what did you all expect, what did you all expect? It's Harry Kane, what did you all expect? No, no, it is, and I mean that in a kind of, not in a smart way, but people go, I can't believe he scored again, but he does it all the time. You know what we did? We were watching it, obviously you're all, we were watching it together when he scored, and I go, okay, what, I'm like, I was sitting there, of course he's going to score. Can we mention Jimmy Greaves as well, please? Jimmy Greaves, of course, to Jimmy Greaves, yeah.

41:24Honestly, that's not an argument, but that's what he does.

41:26Gary Neville: He's our Wonderwall, Roy. No, but... How does he see it? He loves the Wonderwall. He loves the Wonderwall, yeah. They're all looking at the... Stop it. This is the person of Harry Kane. Stop it, stop it. Doing Wonderwall.

41:40Roy Keane: Yeah, but it's nice to have that moment with the man. It's beautiful, because... I know, just look at it. It's amazing. What's amazing? A lot of fans singing and the voices are... Electric, that. She's the next. Maybe you're going to be the one that's here, Jay. No, but Kane, again, there's 70-odd goals he's got this season for, like, Bayern?

41:57Ian Wright: How did he get? So if a player's getting 70-odd, 80... Is that on 71? No, this season. How many goals have he got this season? With the England goals, with the England goals. Oh, it's off the scale, yeah. It's like 78 or something. So who did you think was going to score it today? No, did you wake up this morning and go, you know, I think Spencer's going to get us fucking two today. It's going to be Harry Kane, isn't it? Of course it is. He's the man, he's pretty... And it's shot for the... I know we've discussed, we talk about people in football, and anyone who's worked with Harry Kane will tell you, power of shots and this is goalkeeper I go Kane's level of power is like above lad you were really good at like power his technique is a great the second goal but even his

42:32Roy Keane: his head and ability as well because there was a couple of great saves but I think there was one of them where I was like if that's Harry that's going in like his head and ability and that's where his level is where you go and I'm watching him you know we've worked with some brilliant strikers but I'm going I fully expect the score not going well of course I'm thinking I think Mexico next week I think he'll score

42:52Gary Neville: I think Harry's now the 6th highest goal scoring in World Cup history right is he 6th highest goal scoring in World Cup history he's won has he just he's just gone I think he's just gone how many goals has he got this season is that was it 70 odd am I wrong 72 goals this season I mean seriously even Riding never got that you were amazing Riding seriously what's your top you're a great striker in Premier League history what's your top ever goals in a season for like 34 and he's 72 72. 72. That is amazing. Is that when you got that boot, that golden... Yeah, I got the boot. Yeah, you're up there, Paul.

43:28But like, you know something, when you... How do you play for United? You would have gone like, who would you pick at least... You know when you've got Elise Hazel supplying you,

43:35Roy Keane: when I'm watching him yesterday, I'm not saying any striker would get that many goals, but it helps having someone like Elise. You know what, I used to watch a lot of calls. What do you need to be set up to do? I'm still amazed that I had a second goal today. If you want, we didn't get a chance today, but if you look at some of the defenders, they're giving him space. I said, Roy. What about the goalie, the chance he got last week against, was it Croatia? Remember, he was on his own. And he just let him go. He's got 70 odd goals, and we're going to give him a free run. That's what it is. That was insane.

44:03Ian Wright: You see what will happen, Roy? Those defenders now, when they're going about their business, they're sitting around the hotel, when they're talking, they'll be talking about, did you see how sharp he was when he got the ball? I was thinking, let him shoot because, and bam, it's in the roof of the net. The defender would have been thinking,

44:19Gary Neville: But right as he turned, I actually thought he was going to score. You know what I thought? He's not missing the time. I think the defenders knew that, so they think there's no point in trying to block the shot. If you look at the left back, when he turns... I was going to do a demo like you. Come on, come on. You've got your kit on. Go on, do it on. Kane's turned there and the goal's behind my back. And the left back kind of went, left back, have a shot, I want you to score against us so we can tell our grandkids. Instead of going, actually, just go to the ball. Engage the ball. And there was nobody near them.

44:52That's what happens when you're playing with a world-class striker. It was like a pan defender today running somewhere. When Martin Atlee's going, where are you running to? You've got Kane, the ball is there. Just go and close him down.

45:02Gary Neville: Would you choose Harry Kane right now over Erling Haaland or would you rather have Erling Haaland? Tough question. I think I'm going to shake. I'd answer it. A very tough question. But who are you picking? In what, right now? No, who are you picking? Because Haaland's amazing. Yeah, of course. And Kane's amazing.

45:17Ian Wright: I'd take Harry Kane. I'd take Kane. I'd take Harry Kane, yeah. Just to finish her?

45:22Roy Keane: Yeah.

45:23Ian Wright: And you know what? Over the time, listen, Erling Haaland scored goals and it looks like he's going to continue. At the moment where Harry's been and what he's doing, Harry, you know, I put my marker on him. I know it's going to happen.

45:33Roy Keane: You know when you were saying about, like, Mbappe, the way he moves the ball to get half a yard? Like, Harry Kane's very deceiving in that, isn't he? In that movement. It's not the same type of movement. When he misses the target, Jill, you're surprised.

45:46Ian Wright: Yeah. That's when you know you're dealing with a good job. But once he missed the idea, Keepe still made a good save, but you were saying, you were all sitting there in shock, going, he should have been in the bottom corner. Absolutely, yeah. Who was that against, right? Was that Panama? It would have been Panama. And it wasn't an easy chance, but we're looking, we can't believe he's missed it. What I'm saying is that defenders don't, they think that they'll, oh, it's half a yard, it's going to be OK, bam, when you're playing against the best. You watch them defenders when he gets his first touch today from the Gordon, and they're defenders.

46:10Ian Wright: It's like the goal, what we saw, what Sar scored today. The ball's come from so far. What happens is that those defenders, the Belgian defenders, say, oh, once he's got a touch, he has his bad touch. When they've got a top strike, bam, control, bam, no one gets near you because they're expecting a bad touch. It's not going to be bad because we're playing with the top boys. It's brilliant to watch.

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48:08Gary Neville: Altitude. have any of you ever played at altitude

48:11Roy Keane: no but I must say I've wore one of them masks before because isn't it like 2000 metres above sea level and it is so hard like it restricts you truthfully I went hiking in Peru years ago and I was in bits from the yeah and it affects different people in different ways some of my kids were fine and me and my son really struggled had headaches and really bad it's because men complain more I think No, it just affects, it does affect people in different ways, wouldn't it? He says, it's just something to be made of. He says here,

48:42Gary Neville: the altitude will be a big disadvantage because we cannot physically adapt to it. So quick enough. This is too cool. It just takes too much time. We only have three days in between these matches. It's physically just not possible to adapt to the altitude. This is a huge advantage that Mexico have.

48:57Ian Wright: It's crazy that that can be an eventuality then.

49:01Gary Neville: No, I don't think it is. We have to win a World Cup. No, I don't believe that, right?

49:05Ian Wright: Yeah, but how can you have three days to adapt to altitude? That's the World Cup. Yeah, but it should be fair for everyone. Everybody should have the same...

49:13Gary Neville: The World Cup every four, five, six... That's what you say, you have it in the Middle East, you have it in South Africa, you have it in Europe. When are you supposed to adapt to... You have it in Europe. No, my point is that to win the World Cup, you have to adapt to everything that comes your way.

49:25Ian Wright: Yeah, but you can't because there's not enough days

49:26Roy Keane: for them to adapt, so it's not right. I think they'll have been doing work on that. I think with the FA, no way have they not prepared for that no way do you think they've got

49:36Ian Wright: chambers or something

49:37Roy Keane: we got put in heat chambers on bikes and everything and I remember after training we were in there literally for like an hour and we were like what are we doing no way have the FA not prepared the players for that I think they'll have been doing stuff preparation and of course but it's still no it is going to be difficult it's different when the game starts and it's different challenges and recovery runs or whatever and that nervous energy with everything with the fans

50:01Ian Wright: and again And again, you'll be looking at them and they'll be kind of coarsing on. You're like catching your breath. We played Mexico in 94 and we were looking at the Mexicans and they were like, what's your father? I was in the warm-up. So yeah, of course it is an advantage. Well, the record at home suggests... But Portugal came out a few months ago in a friendly game.

50:20Gary Neville: I know it's a friendly and drew with them. So it's... What do we think the scores... Let's put our neck on the line on scores and then we'll do the England ratings for the game of the players today. So I'll go first. I think the game on Sunday morning. Sunday morning. I think, yeah, Sunday morning. Sunday night, yeah.

50:36Roy Keane: You know what, it's like 1 o 'clock in the morning kick-off because I'm home then.

50:39Gary Neville: But we're 8 here. Yeah, yeah. I think it's 2-2. I'm actually going 3-2. I think it's 2-2 and I think England win on penalties. No, I think 3-2 we beat. I'm going 2-1 England. 3-2 England. 3-2 England. 2-1 England. 2-2 England win on penalties.

50:55Roy Keane: I think we'll win in extra time. so I'll go 1-1 and then 2-1 England extra time and you're good at batting didn't you did you win yeah I had 3-0 France yeah I told you that did I say 3-0 no you didn't I did I said 3-0 France ok I don't know if I said it to you

51:12Ian Wright: your skin looks great oh thank you

51:14Gary Neville: let's rate it really looks good let's rate the you're not let's rate the England players today your skin looks great Joe

51:21Roy Keane: thanks righty

51:22Gary Neville: let's rate the England players today John Pickford I like your beard right John Pickford you look great Thank you. John Pickford.

51:29Roy Keane: You always look good.

51:30Gary Neville: John Pickford today. Yeah, let's concentrate these marks on a 10. You're all about six. He'd be disappointed. Are we being kind? I think we can go 5.5. Why? It's 0.5. If you want to make it 5.5. I'm happy to go 5.5 for John today.

51:44Roy Keane: He'll be disappointed. He'll be disappointed with that goal. Well, he was. Do you see it?

51:48Gary Neville: If you can go all the way, you're in the fives, Ian. I'm sorry. And to be fair, he'll think he should have saved that. Ian, we showed it on telly.

51:55Ian Wright: Oh, here we go.

51:56Gary Neville: We showed it on telly, didn't we? he's just like I completely understand I'm not a goalkeeping coach of any time but he's just made that little movement there and then it's just he's had to put his weight back that way

52:06Ian Wright: haven't he see again you know when you hear people say things like you've got to go across the keeper in a keeper's head when the ball's on that side you are trying to get an advantage because if it does go across there you want to be able to move so yes you see that little move but then it has put him off balance but he's still got a hand to it doesn't he he's got a hand to it but I'm thinking could the hand be stronger because it wasn't like I hate goalkeepers, ex-goalkeepers, who don't want to criticise current goalkeepers. It's also as if I don't ever criticise a midfielder. Why do goalkeepers all like, oh, he's been lucky, he was on certain set of set.

52:37He wasn't. He should have saved it.

52:39Ian Wright: He wasn't. He's edging in bets on going across him. It didn't.

52:42Gary Neville: You're right, Roy, because the relative it is, you can see Jordan Pickford's face after it goes in. Of course he does. And he knows himself he should have saved it. Of course he does.

52:49Roy Keane: He would be the first to see it as well. By the way, he'd be the first to say it, he's honest.

52:52Gary Neville: So what are we giving him? What are we giving him? I give him six, will we? Six. Are you giving him six righty? I'll give him 5.5 then. OK, 5.5. I went six. Six? OK, we're giving him six or 5.5 righty? Six. Six we're giving him. OK, Jed Spence. I said six in the first place. Jed Spence, I'll go with a six on Jed Spence. I think Spence will be doing all right. I think he's been dogging. And he's new to international football. I'm giving him a six. Six, Roy? I'll give him a bit more. 6.5. 6.5.

53:21Roy Keane: But he was up against a very good player as well. I think a lot of fullbacks.

53:25Gary Neville: He's gonna be up against their best player for Mexico, but now have you just mentioned there about people in your land gone past Yeah, you know this good players can go pasture it does happen. Yeah, this doesn't mean to say I don't think anyone passed him today just on the goal. I think he's going to with it But I'm happy to go 6.5. I'm sorry five. Okay, six one five.

53:42Roy Keane: Mm-hmm.

53:42Gary Neville: Okay, Konza We're steady.

53:46Roy Keane: He's been he's been seven this tournament.

53:49Gary Neville: Yeah, I think they're okay. I think he's okay seven 6x7? 6x7? No, 7. 7. Can we have boards? We'll be honed up. I'm giving... We need some boards. I'm happy we're giving Nico O 'Reilly a 7. I'm happy we're giving Nico O 'Reilly a 7. I think he was quite solid. Yeah. Solid is good for the defender. I think he's just... He's just having a calm... He's getting better, you know. He's getting better, you know.

54:12Ian Wright: He chased them back a couple of times. I'm sorry, Rowdy, but he's new to international football.

54:15Gary Neville: He's young, Bob. He's learning. And this is tournament football. He's growing into... For him to be doing what he's doing in that Carabao Cup final for City and then doing this, I'm telling you now, he's absolutely fucking tearing it up doing that. So he's getting a seven, maybe seven and a five.

54:29Roy Keane: Seven and a half?

54:33Gary Neville: Seven and a half. Seven and a half, we'll go a bit higher. Gay, seven with Konza, similar? Yeah. I don't think he was anything different. Yeah? Okay, Declan Rice.

54:41Ian Wright: I'll give Declan a... Seven and a half. Easily seven and a half. And then he went to right back and created. He did as well.

54:49Roy Keane: He did well right back.

54:50Gary Neville: But right, it's interesting because I was calling for him to go to right back. Yeah, you did, yeah. Yeah, but what minute did he go right back? It was about 72 minutes then we scored. Truthfully, honestly, if you're a midfielder and you're dominating a game, which they were at the time, and you have to go right back, if you have half a brain, you will be OK.

55:07Ian Wright: He's still got forward and creative. Oh, that's what I'm saying, because you're dominating the game. Put it in, you wouldn't be playing right back against Mexico, would you? No, no. But he's obviously smart enough to go, I can do a job right back. He needed to go there. And he made a couple of runs. No, of course, but again, you shouldn't be looking at it going, he'd done amazing, a good player, midfielder, would be OK at right back. And carrying injuries. He is carrying injuries. That's the norm, right? He's going through. That's the norm, but all the Arsenal players. I'm giving him an eight.

55:31All the Arsenal players is for a couple of carrying injuries, aren't they? It's amazing. right just want to touch on that

55:36Gary Neville: they've actually let go three or four of their medical department in the last few days Arsenal

55:40Ian Wright: I think that's saying a lot because I read someone sent it sent through to me the other day I can't remember the name of the guys the doctor Iqmal whatever his name someone Alan but like they've got rid of three people which is telling especially the length of time you look at someone like Tim missing the World Cup Ben White Ben White Saka Rice you know Rice you know would all the diving you know it's it's it's a worry it's a worry but they've seems like they're addressing something Declan Rice Jill mmm yeah I thought he

56:14Roy Keane: was a seven I thought Anderson was probably more involved I would have said do you I go answer the higher don't try so yeah but that's because you're from your neck of the woods it is did he go to your school you would like the way

56:31Gary Neville: played yeah but it's added us with your school so hang on Declan Rice seven and Anderson seven

56:40Roy Keane: and a half where's he from he is from the northeast but that's not why I like him I do

56:44Gary Neville: like him okay what are you giving rice seven rice seven and a half on the side yeah okay we got Madweki on the I like Madweki right and Marcus on the left what we're going for them seven seven I'll go...

56:59Roy Keane: No, Madweki more than Rashford. A little bit more for Madweki, I think.

57:02Gary Neville: Yeah. Maybe.

57:03Roy Keane: I think you've got more deliveries. He's from Manchester.

57:06Ian Wright: I'm going to go seven for Madweki.

57:09Gary Neville: Seven for Madweki, and then what for Rashford? Six and a half. Okay, Jude, seven today, seven and a half? Seven and a half.

57:17Ian Wright: You know, he could have scored two as well. Seven and a half today, maybe. Yeah, seven and a half. Seven and a half.

57:21Gary Neville: And then Harry, nine. Ten. Nine. Give him nine today. Yeah, we have to give him... That second goal is special. Well, without him, we don't go through. What about Gordon?

57:30Ian Wright: Gordon's got to get marked. Two assists?

57:32Gary Neville: Yeah, seven and a half are gone. No, he's got to get more. He's got two assists.

57:36Ian Wright: Eight? Is that an assist? I'm giving him an eight. Anthony Gordon? How many assists would he have got then just from passing the ball to somebody? They beat nine men. You know what I like about Anthony Gordon's one? He was coming into the middle of the play, then he cut it back. He saw something, and then Harry done the rest. And the same with the ball. And the ball in. It's amazing a player can pass a ball. How much about a player from 80 million? That's what you need. You need somebody with a little bit more. It was a cute pass. We praised him today. But what I'm saying is even the cross for Harry gave Harry time to be able to get in.

58:05Well, again, full-backs. What's annoying me in this World Cup? Even that goal and the one with the Belgium. Full-backs not wanting to stop crosses. What is that? Why do most people want to stop crosses? Do you know something? But they go out and then they stop. You go, why is he going on a two or three yards?

58:19Gary Neville: The problem for full-backs now is that I don't think they understand, particularly in a back four, I don't think they understand the art of you're literally on an elastic band right you've got to get out there as quickly as you can and then you could be pulled back in yeah it's like an honestly you've literally got to be out there and in and they don't get out quickly enough because they don't get back in quickly enough and by the way it's hard on your legs when you're doing that when you're getting worked so be clear oh my goodness oh my goodness oh my god oh my god you know what gary makes a point Can I tell you, he says, you said that as well before, it's hard on your legs.

58:55Oh, my God. But it's supposed to be hard on your legs. Playing midfield is hard on your legs. Right, a midfield player. No, but my point is, if you go to a football player, this is not big debate, but if you go to the wide player and you've gone most of the way, like we saw today in these clips, you might as well go another two yards. Might as well go another two yards.

59:10Gary Neville: Do you understand? Because that's the danger. Do you understand the idea of different energy systems and different physical demands by playing in different positions? You understand that? No, I've got to explain that. So you think a midfielder does more than a goalkeeper? Most of your work, right? It's long work. No, no. My point is, you might have to get up to somebody, but my point is... Are you telling me now... So you're telling me what a full-back has to go through, but you're not telling me what a midfielder has to go through. How many times in a game... Are you telling me what a midfielder has to go through?

59:37No, so I'm telling you... OK, well, let me do this, right?

59:39Gary Neville: OK. My likes... I didn't want this to start into a big debate. I just think people should stop crosses. I get that, but my point is... The great Brian Clough, that was his... He used to say to Viv Anderson, Stuart Pearce, stop the crosses. Right, I get that. I think he had an idea. Yeah, okay. And I grew up on that mantra. Okay. Stop the crossing. My point is, right, as a defender, when you're having to get out there, you're having to get into a squat position there to defend and you're being dribbled at, Roy. Dribbled at. So you're having to constantly do this. No, not when the guy's putting his leg back that he's got to cross it.

1:00:06No, no, no.

1:00:07Gary Neville: I get you don't go and sell yourself. No, my point is that you're having to get down low. You're working your legs. As a midfield player, you never have to go like that. You're never in this position where you're having to go and get in there and get in there. How do you know? Roy, you're telling me what a full-back has to go through and you're telling me what a midfielder has to do So what does a midfielder have to do then? A hundred times more than that Oh my goodness, there's no way you can work You have to hit people from different angles I know, but you don't have to get down and low and people don't dribble at you in midfield Very rarely does someone dribble straight at you, ever I get dribbled at six times a half, seven times a half, eight times a half I get it So I've got that little bit So I'm working my legs all the time I get it, I get it But you still have to stop crosses I get that, but when you said that, you just said that But the examples I'm talking about today The examples I'm talking about today, I'm sure there's loads of instances where people are running, you've got to backtrack.

1:00:51I get all that. But there's a time where you've got a guy who's pulling, Gordon today, one per second. You know Gordon, he's pulling his leg back to cross it. He's not going under control, but he's running at you.

1:01:00Gary Neville: You said that as if I'm the only player that works. I hurt my legs differently than you hurt your legs in the game.

1:01:05Roy Keane: Of course. Sometimes in midfield you have to get up and back, but I understand the running at and the direct weight.

1:01:10Gary Neville: No, it's not that, it's the fact of having someone running at you. You have to be low in like a box in a crouch position. You're having to literally. and if someone's run at you four or five times in quick succession and then you're having to get back in and then you're having to get back out again

1:01:21Roy Keane: that's quite tough Well then we have to run a box to box to make the box I don't know about that

1:01:25Ian Wright: I think he could have got out to Golden State simply because he was one of those he should absolutely have I get it it's an art that's gone out of the game I do agree I think the way the game has changed you're talking about we were brought up and that I'm sure at United U team stop the cross and people go let's go away from it no no that's really important because everyone talks about now a full-back obviously what are they like we're talking about why Rice went back because he'll give you good quality in possession but again don't forget when you're under costs stop crosses the great managers would tell you that

1:01:58Roy Keane: who's a good full-back would you say maybe Premier League who does stop crosses who would you say is one of the best

1:02:05Gary Neville: I think Timber does it well because I do like

1:02:08Roy Keane: Lewis Hall but I do like Lewis Hall do you know something

1:02:10Gary Neville: who used to be very good at it he used to be very good at it until he lost his legs in this last couple of years Robertson was very good at getting out to people quickly I tell you he was brilliant at it by the way the two Arsenal fullbacks in the day Winterburn and Dixon they would get out to people quickly Have you read this drill into them I'm serious Oh absolutely Don Howe Don Howe was their sort of mentor at the back four he would say get out there quickly get back in get out there quickly get back in that's how we were trained I don't think they get the exact same sort of training now to be fair Probably not No because again the obsession is what you're like in possession and we see fullbacks going for 40, 50, 60 million the first thing you say about the amount of fullback now is people like Trent and all this brilliant going forward but I still think you've got at least try and stop the crosses I understand people going past you one twos you've got to be able to get down low but if you see the guy pulling his leg back you go well it's definitely going in and you're out there just go the extra two yards because these are big moments same for Belgium today we were criticising going he's got to stop at least do your best to stop the cross especially if you're already out there

1:03:07Roy Keane: do you think they do repetition of that as much now because I'm thinking back to when I played which wasn't too long ago but the winger against the fullback they'd stay out and they'd do like 20 dribbles going up like were you against gigs like but do they do that now as much or are they getting towards clubs a lot of the wingers now obviously would it be right foot and the left are cutting in that way and the fullback again it's like like fullbacks you know it's like they're too cool do I need to stop cross you've got to stop we've seen so many how many goals at this World Cup from crosses it's not the people going through the middle like the brilliant Barcelona's the Man City going we'll pick you off even Brazil some of Brazil's goals we saw Germany's goals it's from crosses

1:03:46Gary Neville: do you know the only caveat to that is that if I was so let's say Argentina play against France at some point in this World Cup and you're playing against a team that's not particularly great in the air but they're amazing one on one you might just stay narrow both midfield and you might say actually let him have it let him rush it it sounds crazy because I think if you're Romero and you're Martinez and you're the two defenders full backs for Argentina you're probably thinking if we stay together as a type four and just say now wait for them to come in so sometimes City wingers sometimes get left with the ball out there because they want to stop the spaces occurring in the middle of the pitch so I think if you're playing against France now I'd be thinking I probably wouldn't mind them crossing it as long as we stayed out of our box but you're right in the general game where you're playing against Lukaku's of this world and Harlan's and Kane's you've got to stop crossing it and you know what Ned the thing is we've seen it the other day with some of England's goals where it's that Gordon's putting it into one against it doesn't have to be a good cross these people aren't picking just putting it into a dangerous area.

1:04:44Exactly. You see people obviously running onto it. We've seen it with Kane. Again, lads, again, Kane can see the defender's number. Defenders, like, these are like obviously split set defenders thinking, I've got this, but I can't see the striker. Kane's going, I've got this, not you, I've got a run on you and I can see your number.

1:04:59Roy Keane: Yeah. Happy days for the striker. It's them lifted ones, isn't it? the soft ones, isn't it? Because the defenders are a little bit on their heels, of course.

1:05:06Gary Neville: that's proven to be quite popular quite effective the soft cross is actually because they can go

1:05:11Roy Keane: and attack us they used to say whip it in didn't they

1:05:12Gary Neville: actually now the soft cross is just being a little bit

1:05:15Ian Wright: just help it on and the one today where he hit the post then he scored the rebound again you know because I think that defenders are more used to because wingers don't go down and get to the line and whip it over no more defenders are more waiting for it to come so they cut back and they're defending here boom head out do you know what

1:05:34Roy Keane: sometimes I see with wingers I've seen it today like say they're running to the line and like someone's marking them and then they've got someone here but instead of then taking them on the outside because there's a defender here they then come back to where the two are surely you're going to go line no definitely guaranteed all these teams will have stats from the pitch you're on about crossing positions I think the days have gone a little bit where you've got a left foot on the left side going outside a full back and crossing there's certain areas whether it be the edge of the box where it's pulled back.

1:06:05We saw, I think, Brazil's header last week or the other day. There's definitely a shot in the air that's the cross. This idea of going outside somebody, getting to the byline back in the old day and even when they get into little pockets there's a pullback. But I definitely think the edge of the box area is where that's the cross. That's the danger of this.

1:06:22Gary Neville: What we're giving Tuchel as a mark out in terms of how he managed that game today. His substitutions

1:06:26Ian Wright: kind of helped. And his little chat. I know that's his job to be fair. Probably giving him a seven hour. The drink spray, you mean? 100%. I think that We criticise this break time. It's like a timeout. But I think England needed that little... Just a reminder. Honestly. Seven and a half? I'd give him more than that. You'd give him eight? Eight. Eight and a half.

1:06:45Gary Neville: He's been brave with substitutions. And to be fair, putting rice at right back and taking the gamble a little bit.

1:06:50Roy Keane: Although that was the assistant, he said. Yeah, but you know something?

1:06:53Gary Neville: That's fine. Well, the assistant.

1:06:56Roy Keane: But fair play for coming out and saying that he's the assistant. But he still has to make the final.

1:06:59Gary Neville: I always say this. It's not the assistant. Because if he gets knocked out of the competition, and Declan Reyes gives a goal away, he's not then saying it's his assistant. So it is still him, but I agree with it. It's something that, to be fair, we were saying in the room when we were watching it, we thought it should happen before it happened. You know what, we've said from the start though,

1:07:15Ian Wright: Gail, with Tuchel, and he's made that decision to do that with a similar assistant. But you know what, he's sticking by what he's doing. Which is what it might be for England. Obviously, it's better to be a lucky manager. So that second goal, I think, these are huge moments for a manager. Yeah, yeah. His England career. If they lose to their 2-0, and they're going after him he went to 2-1 he's in trouble they miss a gritch a striker missed a chance for four or five yards

1:07:39Gary Neville: the players were in Roy to be fair at 60 minutes today and we were quite relaxed about it to be fair so it wasn't us the fans were booing yeah they were 73 minutes and there was an element there was booing and there was elements of you thought do you have something score your goal lads quickly because this needs to settle down because it could get a little bit

1:07:55Ian Wright: because then what will happen is

1:07:57Gary Neville: if that carries on

1:07:58Ian Wright: then a player does something he kicks it out of the plate then he starts getting booed it's just like We were in that territory where we were starting to get into dangerous territory with the fans and the players.

1:08:08Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. I want to touch on a couple of Premier League things that are happening right now. But we're in the World Cup zone. We're so... I'm in a Brooklyn space in my head. I'm in Manhattan. He's on the Brooklyn. I'm in Manhattan Bridge. But literally Tottenham are just going to spend£100 million on Tonali. Come on you Spurs! Is that official Gary? Is that official? Yes, Dan. An 85 million on Fernandes from West Ham. Spurs are making noises. When he took that job, he obviously said we stay on the team. We need something, who said that?

1:08:44Ian Wright: But you know what, they are making noises and they should be because... And they must be giving up big wages as well. Absolutely, about time. They're buying the players that are going to make the difference. It's like we've done the same with Declan. We had to do that.

1:08:56Gary Neville: I know, I was... Look, Manchester United right now, the Garty looking like he's got a bad injury. Are they missing out on all these lads United? they are missing out are they in for them though do you reckon well look Anderson Tenale and Fernandes Tenale and Fernandes look like they're going to Tottenham and then you've got Anderson that's gone to City obviously for£120 million they need minimum two probably three if they're going to go on Champions League as well as they are I can't believe they haven't gone for Tenale you would have thought them three you're thinking okay they'll get at least one or two of them all of them could fit in United's team

1:09:23Roy Keane: what about Bruno from Newcastle because he's meant to be going to Arsenal isn't he he'd be good for United

1:09:30Gary Neville: yeah but if he's going to Arsenal he's probably going to fancy going there

1:09:32Roy Keane: yeah but Newcastle's losing two big players there aren't they I know but if you were United as well obviously again you wouldn't panic because if United got I know but if United got sucked into a transfer team because we've said the last few years United there seems to be panic with United transfers you have to trust them and go okay things have settled down their recent recruitment has been good and maybe they know what they're doing they're running out of players

1:09:57Ian Wright: I don't know

1:09:57Gary Neville: I think they've looked at it and thought those valuations are too high, but they've got to have other options back. Obviously. They've got other options pretty quickly, because, I mean, if you look at it, those three players are in the Premier League and they're going to be there.

1:10:09Ian Wright: Those three players now, with the monies that those three players have gone for, Gael.

1:10:13Gary Neville: You wouldn't spend£100 million on Sonali, would you? You wouldn't have money at that. His contract would be over£200 million.

1:10:17Ian Wright: Would you spend£100 million on Sonali? You know something? I think that what's going to... I can't say yay or nay, Gael, simply because it's going to happen. You just did. No, I can't. I can't say yay or nay with it, Because that's the price they set. Because how much has he gone for? 1.16?

1:10:35Gary Neville: Nah.

1:10:38Ian Wright: He's gone for 1.16. 1.16, yeah. That set the levels.

1:10:41Gary Neville: Set the levels.

1:10:43Roy Keane: That is so much money.

1:10:44Gary Neville: Look, we know the 100 million for Declan Rice and we know the 100 million for Haaland. We got him half price. And Mbappe and players like that. But we're now getting to 100 million for... Like nearly 100 million for Fernandes and Tonali. He's like, yeah, but you know, these players are never going to Spurs thinking they've got a better chance of winning something. Do you think so? No, I'm joking. No. You know what?

1:11:06Ian Wright: You know what I was thinking, Roy? So you've got Tonali and you've got Fernandes. They've gone. There's two midfield players thinking, right, that's going to bolster it up. Who are they passing to? But just, look, let's give them a little bit.

1:11:17Gary Neville: Let's give them some flowers tonight, though.

1:11:19Ian Wright: Yeah, I'm giving them some flowers, but at the same time, surely you want to make sure you can get the striker in that's going to say. Because if I'm Tonali, I'm going to think. Yeah, but they probably will be getting people in riding. Well, if they're spending a hundred on him and 85... They've got more money, obviously. They'll sell one or two. They've got to be spending half a billion. They've got some money back in. They've got to be looking to spend half a billion. The boys of Vizcovic to... 50 million. Yeah.

1:11:40Roy Keane: Oh, OK.

1:11:41Gary Neville: Bring it back in.

1:11:42Roy Keane: A little bit. They've got to be getting a striker, surely. United's recruitment heavily criticised the last few years, but the last 12 months, their recruitment has been a bit better. So there has to be a bit of a... Don't panic. Don't be getting involved in all these silly auctions and spending crazy money on good midfielders. But I suppose people have to trust them. And they've got it done early.

1:12:01Ian Wright: They've got it done early. So that's in early. So now they can build it around maybe them two. They might have to move one or two on, of course. Chelsea then put a bidding for Xhaka from Sunderland

1:12:10Roy Keane: for eight million. Like that is a steal if he gets eight million for Xhaka.

1:12:15Ian Wright: No, they want something for eight, obviously. They'll be back in for a thing. They will be. They're coming properly. When they realise that, let's not take the piss. Let's get, he's a proper player, he's going to help us. They'll go back here. That was Suarez years ago. No, he took£40 million and a pound for him. You know what I mean? It was ridiculous. He went there for£75, didn't he? To Barcelona and made Barcelona better. And we offered£40 million and a pound just to get over whatever the clause was. Ridiculous.

1:12:43Gary Neville: Are we surprised? So the other big news that we heard today was that obviously Vito Pereira has gone. and that Oliver Glasner is going to Forrest. What, Forrest have moved another manager on? No, that must be wrong.

1:12:58Ian Wright: You know something, can I be totally honest with that, with Glasner? AI news. And, you know what I mean, I'm thinking that he's leaving because obviously at Palace he didn't want to sell Gaye, he didn't want to sell Eze, he wants to keep the players, and then he's gone to Forrest, the chaotic Forrest. I can only believe that he's left Palace to go to Forrest and I think there's probably more money because it can't be. Am I strong with that though? There's nothing wrong with it. I'm going to play a big Palace for more money. Yeah, but the thing is, what I'm saying about it, Roy, is that the way he wants to leave Palace because they're not giving him the opportunity to do this and do that, is he going to get that at Forest?

1:13:34Ian Wright: There's a couple of things. I think so. There's a couple of things right here. One is that... We just got a hundred odd million for Anderson.

1:13:40Gary Neville: I bet he's going to make me get that. But what, the... Who's the manager that didn't play the right football and then he brought Anjan obviously at Forest? Who was the one?

1:13:48Ian Wright: Oh, De Bruyne.

1:13:50Gary Neville: are you talking about palace no forest to be fair when manjpura came in the reason and came was because he didn't like the football before from the previous manager the waltz manager no no yeah for new knows post-op with him under pitch yeah so new no was doing obviously a good job at forest but his football was deemed to be quite sort of what would be more defensive minded so he brought angie then he got rid of hands quite quickly went back to duck sean dych and then he went to vito prepare he's now gone back he's gone to glasnew i think again he's more of a functional but he's a good manager obviously he must have got one hell of a severance sort of like clause in his contract I would imagine to go there because Oliver Glasner's star right now is pretty high in it in Premier League I mean he's been touted to it is a strange choice

1:14:33Ian Wright: from that point of view that's all I'm saying I'm not disrespecting Forrest I think to be fair

1:14:37Gary Neville: for Forrest it's a great get but he must have one hell of a clause in there that says if he sacked me you're going to have to pay me a fortune he must have because he's putting your reputation there that's what I'm thinking

1:14:44Ian Wright: that must be the that might be the the pull for him because are you going to trust the organisation in the way they've treated managers recently you're leaving Steve it is a strange one it's a strange deal really safe and probably would have given you what you wanted if you Palace are what they are they will bring players they'll develop players and they sell players because that's their business right if you're a manager coming in and you're going to be against that then don't go to Palace but like it's a strange one listen I wish him all the best but like he's going to a place where I can't see how that's going to work out.

1:15:17Ian Wright: Would he get a good welcome back there? At Palace with Forrest? Because they had trouble with the European thing. And you know the thing is, I think Palace fans would be disappointed that he's left Palace and he's gone to Forest. Because they won't see that as a big step up, you're saying? No, they won't. They won't. Especially he's won two cuts for Palace. He's arguably Palace's best manager in the history of Palace. And he's left to go to Forest. They're thinking he's leaving to go. Yeah, I agree. You know what I mean? That's how I feel for him.

1:15:41Gary Neville: That's a shock. Yeah, that was a shock. OK, I like this one. So we were sat in a restaurant the other night and we were watching the Paraguay-Germany penalties. And the boy Balbuena came on, centre-back, literally five minutes for the end. Stat here, eight of the last ten players to be subbed on after the 115th minute of play at the Euros or FIFA World Cup have missed their penalty.

1:16:03Roy Keane: I hate how people do that. They bring them on for two minutes.

1:16:08Gary Neville: We did it with Cara in 2006, by the way. Oh, yeah. I think I told you the story. But even if Cara had started, you know. He scored, then he missed, right? No, so Cara basically was brought on because after training every single day, we had a penalty comp. Cara won the penalty comp, so he got brought on in the World Cup against Portugal. That was how we did it. But was one of the staff going on goal, or was it up against a proper goalkeeper? You know something, it's crazy.

1:16:35Roy Keane: Well, there's a amount of work you put into penalties now, like, you know, in training. But the only thing I'd say about a player coming on Is he not fresh? And he's thinking... Oh, but you've not kicked the ball, though, Roy?

1:16:44Gary Neville: You've not kicked the ball? No. If you've not kicked a football and your first kick or second kick is that... You know what, Roy, have you heard with somebody... I know you hope he gets a touch of the ball in the game. Like Kimmich.

1:16:56Ian Wright: Have you heard that Kimmich is talking about players who refused to take penalties? That's why... Virgil van Dijk was suggesting that he didn't work that one. But when somebody like Tah is taking the penalty and he's like the centre half, we're not talking about a footballing centre half as well. When you see him taking the... Even the way his technique was on. It just looked wrong. You think to yourself, something's not right. Someone's refused that and they're saying it was Goretzka. He said he asked him twice. Yeah. If a captain's asking me once, I'm going, you know, he wouldn't even have to ask me, obviously.

1:17:30Ian Wright: But if a captain has to ask you twice, you know the captain's struggling, isn't he?

1:17:34Roy Keane: but does it want he's struggling he's asked you twice and you say no my worry is for these lads whatever I think when it gets to seven or eight obviously or six I think players definitely switch off no the players are sitting there going I just hope someone win or lose in the five because when you get to seven or eight you already got off

1:17:50Ian Wright: and you're going to be taking the penalty to either keep you in it or you're going to take you going out there'll be pressure because it's sudden death then so I think some lads but you're not right we're talking about players but if a player doesn't fancy it would you are they entitled to say no I don't know You can't, I would never knock a player, but like there's players who are much more experienced than players. It's the same with, let's say with Arsenal, with Gabi. I'm thinking Gabi's taking the fifth penalty. I'm thinking, how's that happened? But Gabi's going to be the player. Gabriel, you mean?

1:18:18Ian Wright: Yeah, Gabriel. Magaes. If people are not stepping up, he will step up. Yeah. You know, he will step up and you'll get players like that. And you'll get players who you need somebody to say, you're taking one. Yeah, yeah. Right? And then they'll go, okay. but there's players if you don't say that they'll just say that what's happened with England who came on is it Rashford and did they miss was it them two

1:18:39Gary Neville: Saka Sancho

1:18:40Ian Wright: Sancho Saka and Rashford did they come on late on all to take penalties

1:18:44Gary Neville: no I don't think it was just to take penalties though that was it not I don't know because they came on in the game no no but it was really late was it not

1:18:50Roy Keane: but do you not think at the end of the game you go who fancies one because if you're not having a good game

1:18:55Ian Wright: you know something it has to be a bit more if I'm a manager Jill if I'm a manager I'm doing that from the start once we get into the knockout period. There's 10 names that I'm having. These 10 are taking the penalties.

1:19:08Gary Neville: No one's changing from that. For me, the criteria for a penalty taker should be the people who are in front of goal the most, the people who are taking set pieces, the people who are basically kicking the ball toward midfield players, forwards, maybe full backs, I think like Trent, who's got off a strike. If you're someone who basically takes free kicks or penalties for your club or shoots for goals or is expected to be in front of goal and have been in that situation more. Would you have took one for England? If you were asked. I never took a penalty in my whole life. But would you have took one for England if we were going on the pecking order?

1:19:39Gary Neville: Do you know something, Roy, I would have said, why are you asking me to take a penalty? Because if we went down to 8, 9 or 10. Oh, yeah, then you'd have to, obviously. But you never went down to 8, 9 or 10. No, but if they got you, would you have been going, oh, oh, oh, absolutely. I'd have been like, I've never been in front of a goal. I mean, I thought I scored seven goals. But you would have had a technique to put it. You'd have a whip, wouldn't you? Side foot in the corner.

1:20:01Ian Wright: walk down, you just think about where you're putting it. Don't put, if the goalie's fucking around with the ball, don't touch it, let the referee do that, then get the ball when you're ready, doing your time.

1:20:10Gary Neville: You saying that to me is like, basically, Yokeres yesterday's one-on-one against Mbappe in the box, right? And I'm saying to Yokeres, right, seriously, sorry, I'm saying, no, you're Mbappe, you can't let him go back on his right foot, you've got to make him go there and let him shoot with his left foot, but you say it's Yokeres, he wouldn't have had a clue what to do. It's like me putting you in that position, It's like you putting me in that position in the penalty. Especially for a full-back, how tired you would be after all the, like, in and out.

1:20:37Roy Keane: He's tired of getting up and down now. In England, though, we used to have to fill in where you felt confident, like 1 to 10. So you'd put your number where you felt confident. And then every training session, they would then kind of watch your penalties and you'd go on, like, a pecking order. Would you go up or down the pecking order? Would it depend? Well, obviously... Like, if you started... No, you could keep going. if you started off at nine and then after a week then you'd go down well you could work your wheel but who would walk out the numbers then you or the coaches well kind of the coach but then you could say like I was never confident to go one to five were you not no I wasn't really I was the same as Gary I was like this forwards wingers like who would be better than me attacking midfielders I know but if you're like a footballer you must think surely I have the technique to strike a ball from I had a really bad experience when I signed for Sunderland women and if I scored everybody got a pair of Adidas boots and if I missed everyone got a boot bag and I missed.

1:21:34Roy Keane: And I think that put us off for the rest of my life.

1:21:37Ian Wright: At least they got something to carry their boots in.

1:21:40Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. The reason I'm going on to this is because there's a couple of penalty shootout ones here. So it's been suggested that at the end of 90 minutes that basically you have the penalty shootout. whoever wins the penalty shootout at the end of 90 minutes hear me out I don't mind it I've just read this I don't know who suggested it but it's quite good who's it suggested by FIFA? Someone on Twitter Twitter okay so at the end of 90 minutes somebody on Twitter so at the end of 90 minutes you have the penalty shootout whoever wins the penalty shootout gets half a goal lead hear me out so basically if it's 1-1 you'd be 1.5 to 1 so you'd be up in the game So it forces the other team in the game to have to attack and it means the extra time rather than being dull That the game finishes at the end of the 30 minutes of extra time But it's eight people will be properly going for it because they know they're at 0.5 down Will they be going for it?

1:22:38Gary Neville: Well, they have to because they would be losing right here It just slows the game down for another half an hour while the penalty is going on and players don't have to get up to speed No, but look, I'm just suggesting that it's something that means that the 30 minutes of extra time which can be boring and sometimes Well, they tried out with the golden goal, didn't they? Yeah I don't like the golden goal

1:22:54Ian Wright: I didn't mind that I liked the golden goal. I don't mind this. No, girl. It just takes too long. You know what, girl? I'd rather watch the... Eight extra time players have to get going. Particularly the full-backs whose legs are... I'd rather get the golden goal because what happens in the golden goal is that you get a moment in it where you go from... And then the game's over. Over, yeah. You know what I mean, girl? Like, now at the moment, I don't mind... Well, I do mind if I'm watching, like I watched the other day and then Canada scored right there for a while, I was fucking gutted. because I want to see penalties.

1:23:25Ian Wright: I want to start getting into one and a half and stuff. I want to see that so you see penalties.

1:23:30Gary Neville: OK.

1:23:30Ian Wright: And I don't want to see them after 90 minutes. I want the extra time. Or a golden goal. Bring golden goal back.

1:23:35Roy Keane: When was the last golden goal?

1:23:37Ian Wright: It was Trezeguet, wasn't it? Was it France? Well, what are you saying? Half a goal, not just give them a goal.

1:23:42Gary Neville: Well, not just give them a goal and a lead. I think it's because if you score a goal, then, you're in front of them. So it's not like a full goal winning a penalty shootout. It's like half a goal. so if you score a goal so it encourages you

1:23:53Ian Wright: to go for it

1:23:54Gary Neville: and get a goal

1:23:55Ian Wright: so you've got half a goal and if you don't go for it

1:23:57Roy Keane: that's never going to happen but if you score

1:23:59Ian Wright: you get a whole goal yeah so you've got half more than them but the game's got to evolve hasn't it Gary what in halves

1:24:09Gary Neville: we're already getting used to tie a motor right okay two more questions if Brazil win the World Cup will Carlo Ancelotti go down as the greatest manager ever yeah big that isn't it five euro is he four European cups five european cups five five european cups a world cup one league in different countries and he's won his and he wasn't about everyone he won the league in spain he's how good of a manager i forget how good he was as a player yeah to champs exactly he won the leaguers in italy he won the league in spain and england there that would be a good record isn't it yeah not a world

1:24:41Ian Wright: cup but no no he would be yeah i don't know if this president and he's the coolest he's the coolest manager in such a nice guy cool is he okay do you think he'll stay there after the world cup Yes, I'll give him that for the best. Should Germany turn... He'd be at Forrest by Christmas. Should Germany turn to Jurgen Klopp if they sack Julian...

1:25:01Gary Neville: Would Jurgen want it, you think?

1:25:03Roy Keane: That'd be a good signing.

1:25:04Ian Wright: I think he's been out long enough, you know, Roy. We're starting to see him. He's having a little dig at Arsenal the other day. I think he's ready to come back now. He's having a little dig about Arsenal set pieces. I think he's ready to come back in now. I think he's had enough rest.

1:25:16Roy Keane: He could still do his Trafalgar. I'd love him to come back. I think he probably is ready to come back. I think he is. Would he want more than international football or would he miss that day-to-day stuff? It might be good for him

1:25:24Ian Wright: to come back and get used to just not having the everyday because that's what finished him in the end.

1:25:29Roy Keane: I can see him doing that. I could do as well.

1:25:32Ian Wright: I'm happy to see him back. We miss him.

1:25:33Gary Neville: We miss his top manager. And last one, we're going to be in America for the 4th of July fireworks celebrations. Now, I know you don't like fireworks, Roy, you've said that on this show a number of times, but it could be quite special. We're going to watch it from the roof. Yeah, we're going to watch it from the roof.

1:25:47Ian Wright: Are we excited about that? I am quite excited about it.

1:25:49Roy Keane: I'm thinking about changing my flight so I can come, because I leave on July the 4th.

1:25:52Ian Wright: Being in America for the 4th of July fireworks, it's quite a thing, isn't it? And the World Cup as well. You pay for my flight. I'm looking forward to that. Thank you. And I'm going to make sure I'm watching it with Roy.

1:26:02Gary Neville: Right, we're on ITV7. Let's get Kieran in. England have set up a mouth-watering clash with Mexico in the round of 16, and you can win£50 ,000 for free by answering seven questions about the game with ITV7 Football. A massive£180 ,000 has been won during the tournament so far, but could you add another£50 ,000 to that figure this time around? It's completely free to play. Simply answer seven questions now on the ITV7 app or website for your chance to win. Good luck. 18 plus TNCs apply. What's this going? Three, two. And remember, it's for Jill's charity. Top 17. No. Wow.

1:26:44Ian Wright: Top 17. It's a tricky one. in the premier league next next next season so who's coming up who wrote that that's not best that's for sure no well we're not going we've not got beth i'm on this i'm missing writing beth holds coming up who's coming on this whole top coventry back got promoted um united in the more and the second years who came up who's the other one coventry yeah on the commentary what's came up so what we're saying top seven seven capacity um ipswich ipswich yeah yeah Manchester United. Manchester United at one. Number one. Spurs and Arsenal. Spurs and Arsenal, two and three.

1:27:22Gary Neville: Maybe Liverpool are in there and City. Spurs. Spurs, second.

1:27:28Ian Wright: Massive club.

1:27:30Gary Neville: Spurs are under. City has gone to something big now since that new thing. City are definitely in there, Liverpool are in there, Arsenal are in there.

1:27:38Ian Wright: Liverpool. Liverpool? Absolutely Liverpool. Get them in there. Come on, you mates. Come on, you raves.

1:27:43Roy Keane: She's great company.

1:27:44Ian Wright: This is Anfield. 61, Anfield. Now we get to all the small stadiums and small clubs. The small ones. Arsenal. Must be Arsenal. Arsenal City, innit? 58 we are. Arsenal. Arsenal. We're 50. We must be fifth ones. We must be fifth ones. Yeah, look, fifth ones. What about? 60 beds, look, 60 beds. What about sentience as well? Who's got more than us then? City. No, no, City have.

1:28:08Gary Neville: City have. They've just opened a new stand. They just opened a new standard. Newcastle, what's Newcastle? Manchester City are here, put it in. You're correct, Gary. You've already caught it in here, Gary. How comes? 61 fans come from the North Standard. Stoffport.

1:28:22Roy Keane: Newcastle? Where did fans come from? Right, this is where I'm stuck a little bit. Take your time now. Everyone's getting giddy.

1:28:27Gary Neville: The other day we tree-loving we lost them in the last one. I think Newcastle's 52. I think Newcastle's 52. Sunderland. No, no, that's 40. No, no, no. What about Newcastle? Newcastle's 52. I think that what they called... I'm forgetting somebody. No. Everton's new stadium, I think, might be 50. Oh, yeah.

1:28:47Ian Wright: Dickens said me.

1:28:48Gary Neville: I think it's Everton. Take your time. Everton. Let's take your time. I'm going to say Everton. I want to say Everton. Everton is correct. It's number six. Well done, man. And I think it's Newcastle. I think it's Newcastle. This is easy. This is easy. Take your time. Are you going... No, no, hold on. Are you going Newcastle? 100 % Newcastle. 52 ,000, I think.

1:29:08Ian Wright: Yeah, Newcastle you're correct. Yeah

1:29:11Gary Neville: Oh

1:29:17Ian Wright: So good that was so easy for us That's our four to our TV seven more than Tottenham

1:29:26Gary Neville: This episode of stick to football is brought to you by sky bet I'm gonna throw another thing in which celebrity would you love to bump into in New York? Oh OK. I'll set up a couple. Julie Roberts.

1:29:42Roy Keane: Why?

1:29:44Gary Neville: Wow, you've obviously got a crush on her. I think Julie Roberts is amazing. I'm just a United fan. Yeah, but do you love her as an actress? An amazing actress, yeah. She's amazing. Is there five of our movies? I don't know five of our movies.

1:29:55Roy Keane: Pretty Woman. Pretty Woman. Pretty Woman.

1:29:58Gary Neville: Julie Roberts, she lives in New York, doesn't she? She lives in... Allegedly.

1:30:02Roy Keane: Oh, so it has to be someone that lives in New York. Do you know who I got a message off on my challenge? Courtney Cox, Monica from Friends.

1:30:12Gary Neville: I love Courtney Cox.

1:30:13Roy Keane: Yes, a video message.

1:30:14Gary Neville: Courtney Cox is on the Bruce Springsteen video, Dancing in the Dark. Yeah. I remember that, yeah.

1:30:19Roy Keane: I got a video message off. Right, ask her to get Bruce on.

1:30:23Gary Neville: Get Courtney Cox on here for 15, 20 minutes.

1:30:26Roy Keane: I didn't ask for the message, but I couldn't try. Can you please ask her? Was it AI?

1:30:31Gary Neville: Was it AI? Was it AI?

1:30:32Ian Wright: She's going to be like, oh, God, she sent a message and now she wants to come on the show.

1:30:36Gary Neville: If you can get Courtney Cox on the show, please, for us. She was in the Bruce Springsteen video and he's my idol.

1:30:40Roy Keane: Yes, I remember that, actually. Thank you. Yes, or anybody from Friends, like, yeah, Jennifer Aniston. I'd like to bump into Bobby De Niro, maybe.

1:30:53Ian Wright: I don't know. Bobby. I don't know. Maybe Bobby, yeah?

1:31:04Ian Wright: I love to bump into someone like Bob De Niro, Robert De Niro. Love him.

1:31:08Roy Keane: Do you think you'd freeze?

1:31:10Ian Wright: No, no, no, because he's probably that kind of... He'd be kind of calm and cool, but he's not going to make you feel like that.

1:31:16Gary Neville: I would freeze if I... What about the famous boxers like that? Sugar Ray Leonard, is he... Yeah, Sugar Ray, yeah.

1:31:24Ian Wright: I saw the other day which I thought was fantastic. Finally, they've unveiled a statue of Joe Frazier in Philadelphia. You know, one of the greatest boxers ever. Rocky, Rocky's in Philadelphia as well. Yeah, a fucking fictional boxer. You know what I mean? They've got a statue of a fictional bloke. Was he not real? Aw! Rocky was real! Rambo, was he as well? Rambo, yeah. They've got a box, they've got a fictional statue, and now they've finally put Joe Frazier and come through. I love a bit of Rambo, yeah. That is magnificent. I'm pleased with that.

1:31:53Roy Keane: Have yous got a statue anywhere? No.

1:31:56Gary Neville: No, he's not stanchier. What did you say? You should have one in cork, really. I can't lie. I can't lie in cork. Imagine the damage be done to it. It should be one of those where you can rub it, you know, where you can touch it.

1:32:09Ian Wright: Right, have you got the freedom of cork?

1:32:11Gary Neville: I think so, yeah. Okay, so you can take what, sheep down the street or cattle or something? Yeah, sheep, I think. Sheep. Freedom's great. If you could meet somebody, would it be a singer? Who would you? Right, you used to go. No, I'm not kind of that. Truthfully, I'm not that kind of guy. I don't. What about Danny from the script? Danny, yeah. You egg. No, it doesn't. I love Bob Dylan, but I wouldn't want to meet him.

1:32:36Ian Wright: Yeah, you'd. I know, I wouldn't want to meet him. That's what I was saying. You wouldn't. You'd just bump into him. Oh, yeah, Bob, sorry. We said that the other day.

1:32:42Gary Neville: We said we need someone to come on to this show who can play guitar and do, like, a couple of songs during the actual interview.

1:32:49Roy Keane: Dermot Kennedy said he would come on. Yeah. Yeah, Dermot, Bladden, yeah. Oh my God, we were sat and he was playing. There was only like about ten of us. I was like blown away. He is... Was it Reid, not A.I. or was it definitely him? Well, no, I think it was him. No, but you've been to his concerts. Yeah, he's good.

1:33:04Gary Neville: Johnny, do you know when Johnny came on? We should have got Johnny to bring the guitar on and just do a little riff for us, you know what I mean?

1:33:11Roy Keane: Oh, we've got to get done with it. He was fidgety. He said about Brooklyn being a cool place, he was spot on. Yeah, but sometimes it's nice to chat to people away from, you know what I mean getting them to keep the ball up for five minutes I'll just get low from New Jersey Nicky from Westlife wants to come on they used to be a goalkeeper that'd be a good one

1:33:32Gary Neville: they're all Irish aren't they Dermot

1:33:34Roy Keane: yeah because I use Roy as an in

1:33:36Gary Neville: the script that's you too Lance from you too or Bono would be good to get on I'd like to meet you too but Bono I don't think he's into sport no we just have to ask him about football about music there's got to be

1:33:48Roy Keane: someone you'd love to just have a He's the edge into football. Yeah. Is he? I think so, yeah. Larry, Larry, Larry Mullen. The drummer. Larry, yeah. He's into it. I don't know about the others. I've never seen... Because we used to come to some of the Irish games. We had a night out with him years ago in New York with Larry. Had a night out with him. Yeah, that was cool. Do you remember much of it? I remember Carrie Mildred some bar, yeah. New York some bar, yeah. No, we did. No, he looked after us, in fairness. Yeah. He did. It was good. No, it was just the way you went. Well, I had a night out, so I'm in New York and then just...

1:34:22Ian Wright: Do you want me to go into details? No, you didn't remember. Wow. Any time you hear about Roy, Roy's being fidgety, he's always falling out of somewhere. No, I was exactly... Or being carried out of somewhere.

1:34:32Gary Neville: I tripped, I tripped. And before, or into the hospital, because he told us before, he had his leg amputated nearly a bit. Jesus, well, that was...

1:34:38Ian Wright: Honestly, sometimes I hear your stories, I'm so disappointed in you, bro. Thanks. That one, the worst. That and the worst, the thigh one. God, we nearly lost Roy Keane.

1:34:49Gary Neville: We nearly lost. Right, you should go and watch the USA second half. Oh yeah, of course, let's watch that.

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1:37:11Gary Neville: Thanks for listening and thanks to our partner Skybet. If you want more, please subscribe and you won't miss an episode.