Mainoo’s United Future, Salah Fallout & Amorim’s Tactical Tweaks | Stick to Football EP 107

0:00Just before we get started, a quick thanks to our partners and clothing. We hope you enjoy the show. I'm ill, everybody. I'm ill. Stay in there, Kieran, with that shirt on. You need to sign it. Stay right there. At least you'll get it out of the way before Christmas, though. Do you know what I mean? It's a positive outlook. I like that. That's what I'm trying to think. That's what I think. I love that shirt on you. It doesn't feel right. It doesn't look right either. Let's have a picture of that. Let's have a picture of that.

0:32That's a great picture. no no you close your eyes don't close your eyes thank you you need to sign it gary there we go that'll be my screensaver for the next 12 months it's not for me obviously what was the bet in the end that we had it was it was technically supposed to be a christmas jumper but if you had up what was it what was it about it's the seattle wasn't it Visit Seattle. Visit Seattle. The quiz, the quiz, the quiz. There you go. And then I've got to get Roy as well, so it's a double punishment. Should I be here today? Yes. Can I, you know what I mean, pulling out on the show, imagine.

1:17Fancy a partnership show? It's a lapkin. Cafe. Hey, Kez, what was that for? Was that for the bet? You lost the bet? Oh, man. Wait, come here. It's Christmas. You're the best. Is that going all right for the breakfast? Yeah. You look ridiculous. I know. You know, but you wallow in that shame. Shall I just sign it? Part of my punishment. Shall I sign it? Yeah. Where do you want to go? Let's just pull it tight.

1:50Who signed it? Apparently everyone other than you and Gary. Oh, I'm here, you mean? That's what I've been told. Better than that. Someone from our team. No. No, no. Oh, you know? That's Nev. Yeah. I don't know who's who. Go on. You sound bunged up, Kay. That's not Dennis Erwin, is it? Is that Dennis Erwin? I don't see. Is that Dennis Erwin? Not as bad as him, though. I can't believe you can't recognise the boys. Nev, who's signed that? Did you get it off him? I reckon I got it off him. We were at Mickey Van Der Venis. Have you seen the same Venice or something? Venice. No, he come out the taxi at Mickey Van Der Ven.

2:24That's definitely why I am. No, I wasn't ill then at that point. and I said, if I'm not ill in the next 24 hours, I'll be amazed. Jal, you're sitting directly opposite me as well. Your immune system is down. Roy, yours is young. You look brown. Oh, he's been away. He's been away. First holiday in about five years, lads. Yeah. Why you got that old one? What's wrong? You'd feel guilty for it. I know where he went. It's somewhere really quite fancy. Oh, is it? Do you buy one? No, no, no, no. A bit more luxurious than that. Oh, Maldives. No, but more luxurious than that. The Maldives? More luxurious.

3:00It's something that you look, ooh, like a Bond film type location. Thailand. Thailand? Bond was done in Thailand? Oh, my God, the most famous one where he does the fucking gold finger. I needed a brick. Where was I? This podcast stresses me out. You know when people are late and phones are going off. It begins with M, but not Maldives. Mauritius. No, not Mauritius. You won't get it, Jim. You won't get it. Margie's. Marbella. It's not in your radar. There was a sneaky delay coming back, which, you know, whatever you gain on the holiday, you lose on the four-hour delay coming back. Where were you delayed four hours?

3:36Barberos. In the airport? Yes. How was that? Not good. No, I don't mind delays. But then when you get on, the pilot explains why you're delayed. You're like, stop telling us. You know what I mean? And then they thank you for your patience and your tolerance, you're like. I'd rather the pilot... It's insulting, Roy, isn't it? It's insulting. No, it is a little bit. What difference does it make? Are we waiting on some paper? Who was it? Yeah, but it's all... But why were you delayed? Safety, bro. Why were you delayed? Never rush a party. I don't care how long they're waiting. I'm not rushing anybody.

4:08I'm not rushing anybody. Where can I put this? Who said I was rushing anybody? No, because the pilot's telling you what's going on. You want to know what's going on. I don't want to know if it was delayed for hours. That's fine. What difference does it make? Paperwork, technical stuff. What was it, Roy? What was the delay? I'm going to stop listening. Oh, you're still talking about this delay. So if you're sitting there for four hours and I haven't said a word... No, this is when you get on. After you've been waiting four hours, you don't know what the delay is until you get on. Then they start telling you, then they start thanking you for being patient.

4:35But if they didn't tell you... Where were you supposed to go? You'd say something. No, stop telling me what I'd be thinking. You and him go... I just don't want... You're delayed four hours, that's fine. If we're delayed four days, I'm fine. You have to sit with it, that's life. High-class problems. But then the pilot explains it, going, thanks for your patience. What are you going to do? He went to Mustique. Mustique. Mustique? I know. It sounds amazing, Mustique. Yeah, but it's all right for everyone else to go, but not... You know what I mean? All right, thank you. Is it good? Would you recommend it?

5:06Yeah, I would. It's good. Quiet, really quiet. When I mentioned Mick Jagger, it was because Mick Jagger used to go... Mick was there, yeah, I had a swim. Back in the day with Princess Margaret. So were you swimming with Mick Jagger? I'm joking. Fucking hell, Jim. Did you say any famous? I'm a Swedish. No. Quiet. Thank you very much. Really quiet. Oh. You like it? I'm just buying time. If you want to switch off for a few days, I'm just buying time while I'm sleeping. I'll probably get my... Get your energy. Don't sneeze in my face, girl. I won't sneeze in your face. Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

5:39He said, no, no, no, no one. Not even the book. Sounds like Santa. He used to say... Violence. Come with violence. I love that. Come with violence. Every summer, curated by someone in my position. That was it. I made it impossible to not be picked. It took about ten minutes to walk off the pitch. And by that, I mean he was... I was like, get on. It was like it was testimonial. Would you do anything differently in this last two weeks? Would you say anything differently? No. No, I wouldn't take anything back, no. He could have easily defused it and brought him on because it's not like a game where you're winning 4-5-0.

6:13It's not about defusing a situation. It's about a manager trying to get three points. You're going to have a war. You're going to have a war if he accepts that. Bring the war on. The most important thing is the team and the club and getting results.

6:28Jill, talk to me about Sunderland Newcastle. I was at the game. First ever experience at Sunderland Newcastle. So you sent me to another game, so I missed it. I know. I know. But I was so happy for them. Like, really, really happy. They deserved it, Jill. Yeah, they did deserve it. They played brilliantly. Newcastle were poor, but they looked like they wanted it a bit more. They were a bit more like that. I don't feel like Newcastle... They only wanted it more. No, it sounds crazy. Newcastle didn't really turn up, did they? I was so disappointed. Do you know when you see two wide players in a five and they're not a little bit advanced in those sort of like half cheating positions and you see them sort of flat and you think, oh, they've gone right back into that old sort of like...

7:08England sometimes were like that where you can't get out from there. You're never close enough to send it forward. And who was the wide players you're talking about? It was Alanga and Gordon. And they were so deep and so flat with their midfield three. So the midfield five were like a genuine like that. They weren't like that. They weren't like a sort of... In a line. Yeah, they were in a line like that. One dynamic when they won it, no? No. As soon as I saw that, I thought, oh, that's not right. Yeah. That's just the right... That's just not right. And then it gives the opposition, like, right, let's go and press.

7:34Yeah. Force them back even more. Yeah. You know what it does as well, Jill? I was so happy. It gives Newcastle an atmosphere that everybody has to experience with them sometimes when they're on top. Yeah. Going to Sunderland with that atmosphere. You're the fault that, yeah, you're going to, you might push back a bit so as you can just take the sting out of them and then break quickly if it's going to be a Lange and Gordon and then give Sunderland the, hang on a minute, we better be careful. But they just kept going up and then Newcastle didn't go. The fans are so good. But righty, the reason that I think 4-4-2 isn't called 4-4-2 anymore, it's called 4-2-3-1, is because you don't normally see the four like spin back.

8:07into a six. You always need the two just a little bit more and it's not called that anymore. And I think that five, it felt very quite... You mentioned it on Commons, and obviously we've seen it, but I've seen Eddie Howe a few days later, you know, the press conference for the Carabao Cup. And he said, we just played the way we did at Everton. That's almost like, obviously they won at Everton really well, didn't they? How can he say, like, Everton's not going to be like what Sunday's atmosphere is going to be, is it? No, but he almost tactically a little bit, maybe sit back and try and play on the counter-attack.

8:37Or whatever. But everyone's... And we know that when you lose a Derby game, the emotion just goes like... Obviously, I've seen Shearer come out, all the fans, and Gamara said it was a mess and all that. Lose a Derby, well, how many did you lose? How many Derby games did you lose? A good few, you mean? Too many, to be fair. Would it be as many as six or seven? No, you wouldn't have lost seven. I wouldn't have lost seven. No. I would say we lost one at Anfield in all my time. One at Anfield. and I would probably say we lost an FA Cup game. Was that Kevin Cameron's score? You lost one at Everton when you talked to Duncan about it in his first game.

9:15Did you lose? Did he say he beat you in his first game? I wasn't here for the Duncan one, I don't think. So the FA Cup won, won at Anfield. But Duncan said in his first game that he... Yeah, no, that was 94. That was when he scored the big edit from the corner. I think I probably lost five, something like that. I lost one. One only. One North London diamond? Yeah, and the thing is, I think the week after we were in the cup final, so 93-94, I don't remember losing more than one. We lost 3-1. You always remember the score of the one you lost, don't you? But the hard thing for Newcastle fans was the way they lost.

9:50Yeah. I think when you lose like that, let's say you lost and you got a man sent off or you made it a bit of an end-to-end game, but they really were for 55 minutes until obviously Sunderland scored and then they changed, to be fair, Newcastle. They were almost a bit apologetic in the game. Atmosphere good. Oh, it was unbelievable. Yeah. It was a good day. Oh, my goodness. We're going to say Newcastle had an off day, but Sunderland, like, to get that win after all them years. And do you know what? I love that they went and replicated that photo because I was at the pub game when Newcastle played.

10:21I was at that game. If I'm being honest, I knew we were going to get beat. We weren't ready to compete with them, but be humble in defeat. Be humble when you win. They were in the championship then, weren't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a massive difference, but the fans are... Surely from Newcastle's point of view, like Sunderland are going to be so up for it that's the least you've got to do match them up with I think it was the loudest I've heard a ground in the Premier League for a long time in terms of just generally before the game do you know I was it's the first time I've ever done commentary there and the like the posh boxes but even the people in the posh boxes are mad do you know what I mean posh boxes they're throwing the flags down at you and they're shouting at you and you're thinking hang on a minute these are supposed to be the you know what I mean that'll have been my nephew to be honest absolutely mad my friends were bringing us the day before literally like 2 o 'clock 3 o 'clock in the morning they couldn't sleep they were that excited I just love it I love it it's amazing we don't appreciate all the derbies do we really no I made the mistake before the game of calling it the time we're derby but that's a massive problem up there so I had to basically had to change my Instagram post to the we're time derby so apparently you flip it whoever's at home No, no.

11:37All right, try it then. I've got enough people on my case at the moment. Shall we go there? We'll give it ten minutes before we go there. Yeah, but you got in trouble with Forest as well, didn't you? Yeah, Notts Forest. I just said Notts Forest. Notts County, yeah. I think once. It's like I got in trouble with saying just... I don't want to extend my problems with Nottingham Forest fans. Christmas love. Like Sheffield United in the league. If I just say, you know, this Sheffield Wednesday not in the league, when I remember doing matches and you'd say yeah Sheffield people come up it's Man U as well what you mean Sheffield Wednesday what you mean so if you don't say Sheffield United alright you know what I mean they go crazy I must be talking about Sheffield United they're only ones in the league I mean the things that you make sometimes you'll say United on commentary and they might be playing you say that all the time yeah they might be playing against West Ham United they might be playing against Leeds Leeds United so you say Leeds you say West Ham you sometimes do say United don't you it's like yeah Shouldn't in that instant, no, girl.

12:35I'm sorry, Ian. We can switch up their both, you know. I was doing the Nottingham Forest Cup game at the weekend, the women's, and I kept going to say not. But you know what? I was doing a bit of, like, a presenting thing, and, oh, my God, I have so much admiration for these presenters. You know, when it's like, Ian, it's like, three, two, one, we're going to a break, right? Get her out, get somebody else in. Including me, Jill. Honestly. Yeah. Was playing Forest? Yeah, so Forrest were playing Wolves in the FA Cup women's. It was on Channel 4 and me and Maisie Adam did a bit of a presenting thing.

13:08But we were interviewing. Oh, my God. Honestly, how they do it. It's so hard. It was like going to a break and three, kick her out, get someone else in, manager come in. I don't know how they do it. Me and Carol once on Monday Night Football, we don't have open talkback. We have an airpiece in, but we have key talkback, which means they only speak to us when they have to press a button. which we went one week to try we're open where you can hear everything all the numbers and everything after about two get that fucking noise out of me get that fucking noise out of me so we ripped our earpieces out through it honestly I had to have a switch as well listening to so many people when it first started I was like this you know when you're so if we're talking here but they're talking it all the time remember they're talking all the time but I'll be like this writing one of his first programmers He answered the guy was.

14:00Shift it along, Jamie. OK.

14:05He's just answering the guy. Oh, my goodness. It was worse than having boy in my ear for an hour on this show. Jill, you met Prince William, the future king. Yes. And do you know what, as well? I've asked him to come on here. Have you? Yeah. Oh, that'd be good. By the way, the next guest we've got... What day does he come on? Let me know. Oh, he's a lovely guy. You'd like to meet the future King Roy, wouldn't you, of England? He's such a nice guy, Roy. Honestly, I think you'd get on with him. What were you doing with him? No, doing some work for Fields in Trust. So basically just trying to protect green spaces in the country because there's so many now that are getting built on.

14:43And then obviously you'd stop so many sports, like everything. So, yeah, we're just trying to kind of protect as many as we can so that people can't come and say, right, I'm putting a block of flats there. Or a hotel. Yeah.

14:59we need more houses we're getting your hotel knocked down but yeah obviously just in terms of like kids doing sport and everything like that trying to get to that every child has access to a green space within like a ten minute walk because to do sport obviously like if you think about the local fields we had grown up without them I don't think I would have fell in love with football but he's such a nice guy he's so lovely like I went up and hugged him and then I was like I can't are you allowed to do that I don't think so is that inappropriate maybe but I've met him a few times so I feel like he wouldn't have a problem with that would he no he didn't he hugged his back his people around him would probably have a problem I think if he's king I don't think you're allowed you can't do that to the king king and queen you're not allowed to go and hug him I can't hug him or give him five yo man you can't do that Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing

15:54Right, so are we going to have a positive Manchester United chat or not? Did everyone watch the game on Monday? They played well. I thought they deserved to win. Yeah, I thought it was the first time I've watched United play for a long time. Certainly under-amouring where I thought it felt like I was watching something that I liked and entertaining. Yeah, a lot of positives. Did you enjoy it? Yeah, I enjoyed the game. A lot of positives. A 4-4 game is amazing. A lot of negatives. A lot of negatives. They scored four, could have scored eight. conceded 400 conceded 8 is that a good way of looking at it is that a good entertain yeah at least there's a goal threat now but still poor at the back I keep getting drawn back to that see I look at football I love watching the goals and I'm obviously I suppose the way I played towards my career I still look at the defensive side of it I do I think some of the goals teams are giving away as shock and I think the standard of goalkeeping is really poor so I can also focus on that but in terms of watching the game it was an enjoyable game because we watch football for goals ultimately but you want to see better It's the same with me, like, when you watch it, for it to be 4-4, of course, for the neutral, but because George Grant, everything was about defence.

17:02He'd be raging at a result like that. He'd go crazy at a result like that. I think Man Utd in the past will be raging, but I think it's being that bad that you're almost just happy that it was exciting at least. It was entertaining, yeah. Remember the lack of goals last year. So at least they're getting maybe two goals a game now, you think. Because last year was a struggle. But you know, we did the stat on Monday Night Football. I think it was 42 or 43 games. He's had six clean sheets. We had that before the game. And it's sort of the teams or managers who've had a similar record going back in the Premier League.

17:42It's all like teams at the bottom of the league. When you see the back three, you know there's going to be problems, don't you? I mean, you see the boy Heaven going into a central back three position. I played that position a couple of times. I played the right of a back three. That's OK. It's so easy to, even Bournemouth a couple of times, Bournemouth and Eton Sharp going forward, even though they've been on a poor run, and they start a decent ball forward. It's like somebody's not going. When you think United have the extra defenders back, whatever your perception of a back three or a back five, you think they need to be a bit more solid than that.

18:13But going forward, they are good to watch. They've got Villa coming up in a few days. That'll be interesting to go to Villa. I just thought, having seen the last two games against Everton and West Ham at home, which I thought were real depressing games. The results are depressing in itself, but actually when you think about those fans walking off after the game and what they've watched, they've seen nothing. And then I just thought on Monday night, I thought, do you know something? At least they walked off like they're probably a little bit of a buzz. I mean, obviously the result's not great, but at least there's something there that you can actually look at and think, I can watch that every single week.

18:42If you're defending for United, right, and after the game, just say there's a buzz, right? There is a buzz for support because it's better certainly in the last two home games no goal against Everton one against West Ham but if you're sitting in the dressing room lads you played defenders would you be sitting there going everyone's got a buzz but No You can't be Oh no you'd be gutted From the players point If you're Shaw or if you're Heaven or if you're Euro or if you're Martins on that last goal I mean Martins knew on that last goal because he put his hand on it you're going in thinking you're gutted you're definitely gutted but just generally from the performance Yeah but you know when they get in that performance why can't you change then that mentality a little bit when you eventually get your noses in front you go no we've done the entertainment bit let's shut up shop for the last 10 minutes I think the flow of the game and Bournemouth could have won it right at the end but you still thought United you think United could win it right at the dead as well they were getting bodies forward but there must come a point you go listen it's been madness for 85 minutes let's now or 80 minutes but let's now be smart with this I think they were actually in shape to an extent on the last goal I think Martez just for some reason didn't just tuck in enough just to get I don't know what happened to it Maybe it's the fact he's not played, but he just didn't tuck in that extra yard, which he needed to.

19:49What about the keeper? Sorry, Joe. What about the keeper? I think 10 games, 15 goals conceded. I think he's been pretty good. I do think that the free kick, he got wrong, definitely, the free kick. Of course, yeah. That one was one that I think he should have said. I'm trying to think of the other thing. But even the free kick, United midfield, you see them all trying to run back. Obviously, they would probably play that way against Villa, and they might get a bit of joy at Villa going forward, but if you're Villa looking at United going, if we can get into them pockets, there's that runner, Adam.

20:17That's what I mean. We always blame the defenders but I think you almost need another couple of United players that are thinking, what about if we lose it? You know, when they're going forward, I feel like we're blaming the defenders. The midfield. That's always going to be the problem, isn't it, Jill? They're just in the space but whereas they're not thinking, like, all right, if we lose it, they're getting onto the second ball. I feel like it's just a bit passive. Sorry, Jill, but can I make the point? If you're a bit open in midfield and the strength of the United midfield is probably not defensively but you still have to have a back three or five going don't worry we can handle two strikers at the top defender well the great defenders go I can deal 1v1 it's never mind 3v1 but it seems to be one player getting in between spaces you're on about the last goal you're like against top level defender you've just said oh he's just coming back from an injury but I don't care how long you've been oh you just get in there a split second quicker and plus is that had to do with an injury that's just plus you look at Bournemouth Bournemouth will probably be devastating that dressing room scoring four goals away from Omen they'll be just disappointed.

21:12Whoever's playing Man United now, you know that they're capable of scoring for you, but they're capable of letting in for you. So you're not really afraid of going to Old Trafford right now. But is that a good place to be if you're a manager or a player, particularly defensive players, people are going, hey, it's a bit better to watch, but you'd still be as a unit defensively going, no, we can't keep getting up there. No, he was shaking his head on the sideline, because he couldn't believe what he was watching in a defensive point of view. But that's the first time that I've watched him and thought, I've seen something like that.

21:38I would think that reminded me of something that you could see. How many games in? Well, we're quite a few games in. I'm going to read you out a couple of quotes and then I'll show you a graphic. When we asked Adam, remember, and we all asked Adam this in the first one. Is he coming in? He's coming in, don't worry. It's a bit old school. He said, no, no, no, no one. Sounds like Santa. Ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, ho. Go, go, go, go. Not even the Pope will change. This is my job. This is my responsibility. This is my life. I won't change. Wow. If I'm a player, a coach, a lot of pressure around people saying I need to change the system, I'm going to change.

22:17They will look at me in a different way. So basically, he's saying he's never going to change the system. On Monday night... We're looking at him in a different way now. He's being stubborn. On Monday night, that's the first time. We've got the previous one. Is this the graphic? That's the graphic. On Monday night, the average position. I mean look my eyes were to be fair at times felt like they were deceiving me because I couldn't quite work out what he was doing it was in no doubt at the end but there's no doubt he was 4-2-4 at the end but he was also during the game something was different on Monday night has he changed on Monday night before the game have you seen at the end the last 20 well the last 20 minutes he was definitely 4-2-4-4-2 4-2-4 but in the first part of the game there was something definitely different and it had been identified I think earlier on in the week apparently United are a bit annoyed that basically this has leaked out that he was going to change to a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3.

23:04He was emphatic about not changing, and we've all asked for him to change and be agile. Where are we now in respect? There's no doubt on Monday he changed. Ahmad was definitely higher, wasn't he? And Euro was wider. You look at the system there, it's quite clearly something that ultimately... We asked him before the game. Yeah, I saw it, yeah. And he sort of said almost something for the future because of the people who are going away with AFRON. That's what I took from the answer. Now, there may have been something, because I don't know what the manager... But look, I think what you've got is in the two wing-backs, one's a full-back, one's a winger.

23:39So I think naturally sometimes the winger's always going to be a little bit higher. So I think it was almost in between. I agree, but yet it did feel different. But I just think the natural sort of people in those positions... The last six, they're a bit smaller. But if you look there on the last six... Which one, go? So you can see there's a definite three. In every game you can see there's a definite three. In every game you can see... So in every game you see, before that, you can see there's a definite three in average positions. You look at the game on Monday, you just know that's a four and a two.

24:10It's very different. The previous five games, you can obviously see there is a three. Even with that, because I thought, just get the previous games up. He's done something very different on Monday. Do you think it's to be more of a goal threat? Well, they were more of a goal threat. Yeah, but then they're a bit more open. But I just think, before the game, I think he was asked on Sky whether, are you changing system? We've just heard you, Paul, you've been trained in a different way. Yeah, and he said, you'll have to see. So he would have been thinking at that moment, who's told him that? Yeah, so he's a bit annoyed about that maybe.

24:42Yeah, but I think he's still coming out. When it's really tight, Roy, it doesn't come out. He was so emphatic he wouldn't change his system. Do we applaud him for changing his system? I mean, I think, to be fair, it's needed. Right. Because I think against Everton, that was for me a bit of a final straw when you leave three at the back against one, when you're playing against ten men, that just can't happen. So do you think he's actually thought... I mean, he could put it down to AFCON, but he's been without Ahmad and Mbemel before. You'd rather watch, obviously, the bit of madness, where you saw eight goals.

25:11It could have been a lot more than what's happened recently. Because you're on about the bits there the last 20, 25 minutes. But that can be the flow of a game, can't it? That can be your substitution. That is very much 4-4-2 at the end. And are you giving it a thumbs up? Because just the fact it was more entertainment. Let's see, I'm giving it a go. On Monday, if I watch that every single week, obviously you wouldn't want to draw every single week, I couldn't live with that. I can't live with going to Old Trafford and being bored. Especially the last couple of games where it was West Ham and Everton.

25:37To me, on Monday night, I came away thinking... At least on the front foot, you're thinking. Yeah, front foot, loads of bodies forward. Look, if you put Maguire, De Ligt and Fitt Martinez back in as well, there will be a difference at the back, let's be clear. There'll have to be, yeah. So I think he's got defenders out, which I think cause a problem. I'm not saying that it's right what happened on Monday defensively it was shocking at times but at least it was something like I think it's something you could live with Why do you think they can't kill teams off? Because when I watch them they get a goal and then they're on top and then they don't get like 2-3 and they allow the team to get back in It sounds crazy on Monday I was thinking about it I think Kunya, Embermo, Mount are actually pretty good front three you wouldn't like to play against them but none of them are really good finishers so Embermo to be faced he didn't miss a future I don't know what you think, Ian.

26:24You're best to talk about than me. But he had a really challenging time on Monday. Just generally, his finishing's quite wild. Quite wild, yeah. It was. When you look at it, it's the kind of finishing that he doesn't need to be anxious. You know, he looked to me like he's anxious. And I don't know if that's the pressure was on him. Yeah, a bit rash. Yeah, anxious. Is that the thing? That's a massive sign of no confidence. And that's why he probably needs a kind of chance where he's literally tapping in right now. But you make the point about United. Is the responsibility on United, the history of the club, to be more entertaining?

26:56Even you're now going, it's 4-4, chaos, but you're going, I'd still rather that than going back as well to last season where they finished the games they've lost. You're going, well, obviously they're always going to improve on that. So I kind of agree with you a little bit, going, yeah, United are classed as kind of entertainers. You have to be. Whether you like it or not, there is the history of the club. When Jordi came in a couple of weeks ago and he said, Ajax and Barcelona would never change their identity. I just don't think United can ever change their identity of being entertaining and being almost always on the front foot of course you have to be balanced and you have to have better defensive work than we saw but you can't change that approach for me if Amarim came out now and said look I get it it's just not it's bland it's a bit sort of stiff it doesn't get the best out I'm going to go to a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3 whatever he's going to go to I know that there would be you'd be quite critical I think in doing the analytics of that on Monday Night Football because you'd say he's basically gone against...

27:50But I think from a United point of view, it's the only option, I think, to survive long-term. Do you think he will? I don't know. I'm not sure as much that it was this big change of the start. I think there was something a little bit different. There was something, wasn't there? Yeah. But, you know, when you still think about how Man United played, and I don't know exactly where they are, but it wasn't 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, was it? I mean, Dalo was still the only player on the left. There was no one on the left wing ahead of Dalo. Yorra was a bit wider and Ahmad was a bit narrower and higher I think it was without the ball I was watching without the ball Yorra was almost coming to a right back position to take Semenyo I think for headers when Bournemouth were going wrong and stuff like that so I think it was almost sort of interchanging between the two systems but I'd be surprised if maybe maybe I won't be because he said he was practising because of the players going to AFCON how many players are going?

28:38You've got Mazrao Mazrao is gone I think it's Embermo and Ahmad I think Ahmad and Embermo have been out before though haven't they I think I don't buy the AFCON thing I don't get so for me the idea that you change your system because of AFCON you've got a squad of 23 players to compete and AFCON or no AFCON I don't think you should change based upon that now what he might say is I'm Adam Masraoui a two of my wing back so I've lost my wing back so what do I do he could say that the big thing is to lose aren't there there's also a part of him is the pennies drop when I met United going you need to do more you need to entertain a bit more maybe the pennies drop with him sometimes you have to be a job six or 12 months for the reality to kick in because we've definitely got to be more of a goal trout we've got to score more goals particularly at home he obviously knows he's got to tighten up at the back and maybe the pennies drop but they've got to be more on the front foot because certainly the last couple of home games I'd done the West Ham game and it was I think because of the because of the score because of the way the score was like you say you enjoyed it because that's what United were about when you'd watch United it was about blood and thunder attack, attack, attack so that's what you're used to with Man United's DNA that's what I thought that he would bring into Man United whatever regardless of everything else that Man United are attacking you you know there's going to be spells in a game when you go to Old Trafford where you are continually under it and that he hasn't got that Man you no matter how bad it is no matter who the manager is when I'm watching that game with 20 minutes to go you know something's going to happen yeah yeah yeah when it goes when it goes three three you just know four threes I'm like but that was that was the disappointing thing about Everton and West Ham those games drifted towards the end.

30:15There was no kitchen sink. But when you can feel it, I think Anfield's a little bit like, well, it is like that. You know, you can just feel it when you're on TV. You're thinking, oh, it's happening. It's coming, it's coming. Man United's been involved in some exciting games. Or was it the 3-2 against Nottingham Forest? That was a... It was 2-2, wasn't it? When Bruno... Yeah, yeah. It was 2-2. I thought it was 3-2. When Bruno scored, the one away. Yeah, Forest, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was 2-2, isn't it? Yeah. But they have had some exciting games. They're a little bit like basketball games aren't there at times but as you say if you're watching West Ham and you're like versus Man United and you're not entertained what would you rather take?

30:49Andy Everton game How long's De Ligt and Maguire out for? Don't know Yeah I don't know It'll be interesting when they come back Yeah they need to come back but I mean obviously because they're struggling at the back of the month One last thing on United Cobby Mayne who's brother's t-shirt do we have a problem with that? I've seen that Do we think that puts pressure on Cobby? You know I'm going to say two things here But there's so many silly things going on I know when football is there. I agree, right? Everyone's jumping under. It's just silly headlines. Can I just say with the T-shirt, when I start to say, you don't need that.

31:18I agree. When you've got Paul Scholes, iconic player, United, fighting your case, Nicky Butt fighting your case, saying, you know what I mean, he's lost 18 months of development. You know, what I look back at with Kobe Maynus is that when Ruben Amarin came in, first thing you started to hear the rumours was, he's getting rid of Garnaccio, he's getting rid of Maynus. So you think, You look at where we are now and you think, why didn't they then sign him up to a deal, Kobe, because he's not playing, he's not going to play, sign him up to a deal, send him out on loan and at least build the asset?

31:50Why wouldn't you do so? Instead of just continuing not playing him, he's losing value and now what? He's going to go on loan in January? His value won't drop that much, Roy, do you? You don't think that somebody like now, Roy, if he was playing out on loan now, let's say he goes and does a Scott McTominay. bam he's gone through the roof in respects of his what he's worth why aren't Man United doing that why didn't they do that they've known a long time he's still getting his moments like he came on the other night I don't think his value is dropping that much he's not getting enough moments when he came on the other night from a football point of view he looked neat and tidy he looked sharp I thought in fairness to him but I don't think his value is going to drop that much if the manager's not having him and come to summer he'll go okay we'll cash in on him so what if Kobe runs down his contract now what if he runs down his contract now are we going to get the I feel are you going to get the shit I feel he was probably right to want to get out if he knew that he wasn't going to get a chance and to go and get football ahead of a World Cup year when England haven't got a lot of players in that position.

32:45So I think he was right to want to go and get football. Get football at the club, you're right. Yeah, but if you think about... He's not got a chance there, Roy. He looks like somebody that... It's not like we're reading about him. Can I tell you something, Roy? You know, in football, people talk about challenges. You need to go out and loan you. And that's worked out for loads of players. But sometimes at Man United, if you're younger the challenge is right in front of you it's not I don't know the club but Roy there was a killer he can't see it with this manager there was a killer statement made by Amrim I think on Manu which I think he's come up with lots of defs no no but his statement was that it's Agarti or Casemiro it's Bruno or Kobe he sort of said that in a press conference he's putting Manu up against Bruno no no but when you put no but he's going to play two in there when you say you're up against Bruno Bruno always is going to play plays every match so in fact he was actually telling Kobe at the time you're not going to play basically so I get Kobe's point of view that he's like hang on a minute if I can play alongside Bruno great but if I'm actually it's me or him he's always going to play he's brilliant but what's football about what's the life of a professional football is most of it you're trying to prove people wrong how's he going to do that with Bruno though Bruno might get injured you never know you never know why Bruno's talking about Bruno leaving in the summer Bruno might leave next summer so you bide your time as a young player I've no problem with players going out on loan it can work for everybody but sometimes a player as I said the biggest challenge, everyone thinks, oh, you need to go to your, no, no, your biggest challenge is here at Man United.

34:08Get into that first team. Even if the manager says, you're not going to get out of Bruno, you're not going to get, do you know what, I'll prove you wrong. I'll get into that, I guarantee you Bruno, there'll be chat about Bruno leaving again this summer and the world coming up and he's getting a bit older and he might fancy that. We'll talk about that. I didn't think it was helpful for his brother to wear that. Of course it doesn't help. It's social media though, isn't it? Everything's for social media. What did you think about, it doesn't help. obviously because he's come through the youth. You mentioned Guy Natchel before.

34:33I've seen the manager. I don't know who the players are, to be honest. Harry Mass. Yeah, he went after the academy players. And he said he's struggling. I thought it was a terrible thing. Those lads put... I read. I didn't see it. They put on social media. Yeah, he put... One of them put a picture on with, like, a trophy and one put one on score and a goal for England. I think he said Harry Mass, basically, had been sort of... I hadn't done that well at Sheffield Wednesday. He said struggling, didn't he? Yeah, and Harry Mass, I think, posted out the next day just one player of the month I think at Sheffield Wednesday or something like that and then one of them score them for the 21s I didn't think that was great I didn't think that was great to be fair because I think young players at the club have to be supported and believed in and given opportunities now if they're stepping out of line because they're not behaving correctly I get it but these lads are just to be fair trying to play the very best football and do the best but I think on Kobe I think I've got some sympathy for Kobe Manning I think to be fair he was given a little if my view on it Roy I understand what you're saying is about the fact Did he play against Grimsby?

35:29I know. No, no, no. He did. No, no, no. Sometimes you get that opportunity in a cup match. We've seen it before at Man United. We always talk about players getting a chance. And I'm not going to judge a player on one game against Grimsby. Sometimes a player comes into the team and you go, the manager's got doubts about you. You're going to Grimsby. Grimsby, League 2. You show your quality to me. I don't care what else happens on the night. Even if you get beaten, you show me your qualities. And when players turn up, let me tell you, and I've been a manager, and if a player turns up, and I'm not saying he did, and he just goes through the motions a little bit, you go, hold on a second.

35:55and you think you're a player because you've played a few games. I'm not quite in that camp, but two reasons I'm not in that camp. One is that I think I've got some sympathy for players when they're not playing and they come into a team that's been wholly changed. I've got some sympathy with that. Secondly, I think if you're demoralised from a manager and you feel a manager's not feeling you, and I never had that, I have to be honest with you. I never had that at all in my career, but I know that lads that didn't get a feeling from a manager and a vibe from a manager, they were like, they went down and you lost them a little bit.

36:23And I think Cobby's, I think for me, on the pit around Bruno and Cobb, if the manager really wanted to play Cobb, what he would do, he'd play Casemiro here as a holding midfield player in a five. Cobb. And he'd play Cobb and Bruno in front of it as an example and he'd get him into the team. And I think that most managers would look at Cobb. If you imagine, you've got Masrawi and Dalo playing in the football team. You're sticking with your system where you're putting Masrawi and Dalo in and you're leaving Cobb and Manu on the bench. I personally feel like you might be better off thinking, OK, well, let's get our best players in.

36:55But he's gone system over players. And I get that as well. I understand that from a manager's perspective. But he's actually never going to play Kobe because he's only going to play two midfield with that system. I'm a little bit... I can see both sides here. And yous are probably all different in that. For me, I played a lot of games for Liverpool. But my place was never 100 % secure until I was probably late 20. So I was always having a fight for my position. Every summer, who were aid by someone in my position? That was it. You know what I mean? But I don't know what's going on on the training pitch, but I know from my own head, and I go a little bit what Roy's saying, not so much on the pitch, but almost every day, I made it impossible to not be picked.

37:35I knew the person who I was competing with would not train like me or be like... Even if it's somebody, Carabra or Bruno, James? No, but we're saying Bruno, it can be Casimir. Casimir, oh, 30, what is he, 33? Well, Carabra, a like for like with you would be, let's say, for instance, Hippie is the right centre-back and Aga's the left centre-back. and basically Rafa Benitez says it's Hippier or Carragher as an example when you're first bringing it right. You almost know you're not going to play. Now if he's saying you can play in either position or you can... I don't care what he would have said.

38:03What I'm saying point being is so many managers and think of all the teams and we speak about this every season. Look at Liverpool now. Oh he's actually going to be the centre forward. Viet is going to play it. After a few games it never ends up how you think it's going to end up because someone's out of form or someone gets injured or someone comes through. I'm just talking about my own and I don't know Kobe Maynard he might be the best professional and a great lad and he might be banging his head against the brick wall but I was in that position not so much where a manager's always putting me sub but wherever I was going he's not playing this season he's not about me and I'd be like I am and I just I knew not ability wise because the people who come in who I'm taking my place was like Marcus Babel German international Christian Ziga German international Steve Finn you know great full back at at four it wasn't so much the centre back it was more the full-back areas and I wasn't an amazing full-back I was a decent full-back but I knew mentality-wise and so sort of every single day they wouldn't be able to compete with me they wouldn't and I look up Kobe Maynard and he's up against you're saying Bruno his brother's saying free Kobe Maynard because they obviously feel trapped don't they no I get that I get that but what I'm saying is it's bizarre isn't it every day he feels trapped he feels trapped in football I saw Maynard play against England against Ireland when he started doing well he played against Ireland in the Nations League wasn't it did you do it again you must have done it again I think we've done it yeah we've done it I watched him England were much stronger in Ireland this was in Dublin and it was easy I think he was taken off after about 60 yeah he was taken off after about 65 and I was looking I watched his young players see how they're doing at United they're making noise I just kind of watched him close quality player but I did look at him and he was taken off after about 60 the game was over England were cruising literally and he took about 10 minutes to walk off the pitch and by that I mean he was I was like get off Fucking bitch.

39:51It's like it was a testimonial. He's just a young player making his way into the game. I know I might be nitpicking at stuff here but I'm just trying to pick up traits of a footballer and not long afterwards he's done loads of photographs and modelling stuff. Now I know players have done that with us. Bex was doing it after maybe 100 games. Giggs. He wasn't doing it after 6, 7, 10 games. So these are little things I might be looking at going well I'm sure maybe the club's looking at it and I'm sure the manager might be looking at it and we're saying he might be the greatest pro ever. He might be a great pro.

40:18So if you're a manager working with a player and he's showing these little traits. And when I say they took about 10 minutes to walk off, I mean they took about 10 minutes. A young player like that, I go, just get off the pitch. He was applauding for about 10 minutes. Mind if they were beating Brazil. They were much stronger in Ireland. So these are little things I've picked up and gone, you know, you've got a lot to do with your pal. What age is he? Was he 22? He's only young. 21. 21. And are you telling me he can't sit there another six months? Just say that he's not making his way. He might think the manager might be gone this summer.

40:45One or two of the senior players. 20 years. He's 20 years of age. What's wrong with sitting and learning your trade? And even if you're not getting a chance, again, I go back to football. We've all had to do it at different levels. I'm sure Ferguson at some stage doubted you. Eric Harrison. There'll be some times where a manager's on your case. And what you have to do is you have to look at a manager and go, I'll prove you wrong. Jamie makes the point that he never felt he was a regular at Liverpool. He never was going to be, I never felt at a Man United. I never felt I'd just turn up every week and I'm going to...

41:10Every day is your challenge to prove to the manager. And again, when that manager's picking a team on a Thursday or Friday, I'm going to train like a beast. and when you're writing that team you go he has to play he's got to get that in his mindset I have to and when he's got an idiot of his brother doing all that we shouldn't even be giving his brother the time of day because sometimes you're just thrown about you idiots aren't you but Roy you can have a manager though that doesn't give you I get what you're saying about these players coming in just to add to your point quick remember as soon as he's come in he's recognised I don't want Kobe in my team as soon as he's come he said that right no that's what I mean I think But then you should get in the team.

41:47Up to this point, we've not heard from Cobbies, bad in training, this and that. He seems to be getting on. No, I agree. He's turned up straight away, Ron. When you're saying about managers, I feel like you're allowed to have that fight with the players that's coming. I've been the other side where a manager is just not having you. You work your arse off every single day. You do everything right. And they don't even allow you to have that fight to get in. And I feel like that's happened with them. We had Bex on here earlier this season. We're talking about Bex, an amazing player. And he was going to meet.

42:14He's getting bombed up by managers Capello. He trained with the reserves. And Capello said, he proved me wrong. He showed me what a good lad he was, if you remember that. Man, who's got to do that? Yeah, but that doesn't always happen, does it? A manager. It doesn't stop him trying. I get it. And if it doesn't happen, he'll sell him in the summer. That's the thing. We don't know he's not trying because we're not hearing. His brother's put that on and it's not helped him. There's no evidence that he's not training. No, this is the thing. Are you coming after the match and your brother, did your brother ever do that?

42:40No. If my brother had done that, you'd be looking going, what are you doing? you know what I mean you would do you know what do you reckon his brother done it without asking him free he's under contract he's only played 190 minutes this season against Grimsby yeah right oh yeah and how did that go my point is though sometimes that's the only one you get you take it listen I'm with you you're not going to win this one it's a hard school if you're coming back on the bus after Grimsby I'd love to be on that bus with the United players and they're sitting there whatever and you're going we've just lost a friend in Grimsby and you've had that opportunity.

43:14And someone says, you know, you're not going to get a chance for another six months. I don't expect to get another chance for six months, but I can't beat Grimsby. We will disagree on stuff like that because I've said before, when you make six or seven changes in a game, and which they did, I always think it's really difficult for that team to come in and hit the ground running. Look, they should have beat Grimsby. No excuses around that. You don't say it, Gary. You think United should have beat Grimsby, yeah. But it wasn't all on Cobby. They were all... Exactly. Thank you. They were all terrible that night.

43:38They were all shocking. Yeah, but when everyone else This is terrible, Gary. You make sure you're good. Because let me tell you, it's very easy to be good in a bad team. So you rise above that. Do you want to put your hat on? Get him a Grinchy hat. Do you want to pull a cracker? Come on. You know what? Fucking hell. I'll tell you. Do you know what? We defend the players too much sometimes on here. No, but we have to know the whole story of everything, though. Because I still believe, right? Is he grating on you? Last point on United. Go on. Last point. An hour later, yeah. No, no, last point. This was the positive United chat.

44:18Bruno Fernandes said that he felt that the club were willing to sell him in the summer and that he basically said he was going to stay. I think we sort of knew that, but he's confirmed it in the last 24 hours. You know what? When I, the quote, was that something he'd done in Cano Plus or something? Yeah. Cano 11. It's always one of them stations. You know, they go abroad and they think no one else. It doesn't matter what's on there. No, but what is, you know, you have to say, it comes back down to the Manchester United, like, indecisiveness in respect. So if someone's come in for Bruno, you shut that down.

44:49Because Bruno didn't want to go. Bruno's saying that they said to him, well, it's up to you if you want to leave. That's not what you want to hear from someone like him who's literally holding the club up himself. You want the club to say, you're not going nowhere. You're a massive part of this. Man United didn't do that. They gave him the opportunity to say, well, if you want to stay, you can stay. But if you want to go, you can go. What's that saying? I'd take him tomorrow. Maybe they wanted to sell him to bring coffee in. Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. This episode is sponsored by EA Sports FC 26.

45:25We've got a little special moment for Jill on Stick to Football this week. Is she leaving? She's leaving. So, Jill Scott is being added to the EA Sports FC 26 as a hero item to celebrate her legendary football career, which saw her become the second most capped lioness. Thank you. Jill Scott, baby. Well deserved. Well deserved. Thanks. Right, this is Farrah Williams. Yes. And the reason I'm showing Farrah, Farrah's already in, is that we're going to choose, we're going to basically go through Jill's... Numbers. Numbers. I'll be very honest. So, basically, off Farrah's numbers... I shouldn't be anywhere near Farrah.

46:09Farrah's 80 for pace. What's Jill's pace? What do we think Jill's pace is compared to Farrah? And what's the pace here? She's 80. I'd say Jill's... 75. 76. I didn't have pace. Jill's 83. She's more... Yeah, Jill, look! Farrah was quicker than me. Right, what's this one? Shot 80s? Shots. Farrah's 87. What's Jill? Jill can't be up there with the shots because Jill's a runner. Jill, I'm going to go 78. Yeah. 80. Not bad. Well done, Jill. Passing. Farrah is 87. What were you like with Jill? I was saying my passing was all right. Farrah was better than me. 85. I got 90 as well. It's the same, 87. So not good analysis.

46:50Dribbling. Dribbling. Farrah is 85. She's done a night off. 75, Jill. Dribbling rubbish. What? 85? What you are? 72. You're 83. See, Jill, you're knocking yourself. Defensively, Jill, Farrah's a 72. I put in a shift, to be honest. Were you better than Farrah at defending? 90. 90-odd. Okay, so what do you think you are? 93. 80 aces. 37. 78. No, 84. And physically, Farrah was 75. I was good physically. Physically, so what are you then? 100, sure. No, not 100. 84. 91. Wow. So basically, I could defend run and pass. And swear. That's pretty good, Joe. That's very important, Joe. So I've got a real problem with EA.

47:40Why? Because this morning when they actually showed this to me, I said, what are my scores? So they handed me the Jamie Carragher card. He's got one. Sideburns? What the fuck? Let me see the sideburns, Jamie. They then handed me the Ian Wright card. You're good looking like, weren't you? No, I don't think so. He's delighted. Hey, you couldn't defend, though. Look at that four. I couldn't defend. And then they handed me the Roy Keane card. Wow. You two both look like your sons. It's like the double. There is no Gary Neville EA card. Oh! No. No. No Gary Neville EA card. So you're in that Premier League thing.

48:15So EA can basically do one. Sure. What? Mine's a description. How do you get in this? Look at my passing 65. How do you get in this? Sorry, how do you get in this? You've got to be a legend of the game. Any chance? Look at my physicality. There you go. Look at my physicality. This isn't right, man. Mine's rubbish. Let's have a look. So, Jill is going to be in the EA Sports FC 26 game. Thank you. What's my shot? It's Friday, Jill. You're in, Jill. You're in this Friday. Thank you. Well done, Jill. Thanks, everyone. Does anybody get under 50 for defence? I don't know, Ian. I haven't got one. I've got 40 for...

48:50It's because the Man United people haven't voted for you. I don't know. I don't know why I haven't got one. Oh, I think we should... What year was this of me as well? Different years, isn't it? Let's get Gabby in the game. I'm not happy with that map. Should we put these up behind us? No, I'm not putting mine up. He's got the best one. I'm not happy with mine. I'm not happy with mine. You got a colour one. Are you not happy? Mine was a last minute one, was it? What physicality was better than that? Jill, pass me yours, please. I'm not passing. Mine's black and white. Yeah. There we go. Jill's hero item will be live in game on EA Sports FC 26 at 6pm on the 19th of December Stick to Football is brought to you by Arn Clothing Let's move on to Liverpool and Mo Salah and what's happening with that?

49:38The story to be fair has obviously sort of died down slightly which was probably helpful in some ways that he's obviously come back into the team but obviously Cara you have led on this in the last couple of weeks. How do you reflect upon it? Because obviously you went... LAUGHTER Popcorn. Just like me for two weeks, me. It was a teary hand. It was a teary hand. More tea, please. How do you reflect upon it? Because obviously I think your initial take, you obviously were very strong in respect of obviously what Moles interviewed after the Liverpool-Leeds game, which I was at the game and obviously he didn't come on how do you reflect upon it two weeks later in terms of because you kept going as well would you do anything differently in this last two weeks would you say anything differently no kept going because I kept asking questions about it we were on the Champions League wasn't we in Liverpool playing that night and there was the big story around Mona travelling wasn't it so you couldn't get away from it and listen it was the biggest story in time wasn't it for 7 to 10 days so no I wouldn't take anything back no by what do you think I should take back I never I never said you should take anything back do you feel like you went too far no the disgrace well there was a disgrace you think so oh yeah it was yeah I didn't mind him coming out and doing that interview you know I really didn't I think it just showed how much he cared about playing for the club and the level of player I really did feel that I was like sometimes we're told like do an interview don't say that don't do that I think he was genuinely so hurt by the whole situation.

51:18And I think him coming out and speaking about it was that he did feel like he was being made a scapegoat for their performances. How was he being made a scapegoat? Well, just maybe because there's been other players that haven't been playing well. I just felt like he... So what I'm saying is, I don't mind someone having a different view, but it's like you've got to back it up with something. So it's like when people say, Canata is not playing well, he's played every game. They haven't got another centre-back. So that's not a debate. You could say Gravenbirch. They haven't got another holding midfield player.

51:48Gakbo's been dropped. Ekertiki's been out. Isak's been in and out. McAllister's been in and out. The full-backs have changed a lot. So everybody in that team hasn't been playing well, besides Sir Bozlike, if you like. I thought he should have. I did the commentary on the game. My feeling was, to be fair, that he should have come on was my feeling at the time. I said it at the time, to be fair, in commentary. OK. What was it? A three-minute window? A three-minute window? Hear me out. there was a short window of about, you're right, three or four minutes. And to be fair, Liverpool scored the third goal to go three to.

52:15It was a short window between Leeds equalising and Liverpool getting that third through Sobber's lie. However, I even thought at that point then, with 10 minutes to go, this is not a normal game. Liverpool are not having a normal season. You're probably going to concede again. I still probably thought at that point he could have gone on and said, get another attacker on the pitch, because he didn't have any attackers on the pitch hardly at that time. So I thought leaving him on the bench, and then he ends up drawing it. I did think at the time he should have come on in the game. I didn't think he should have come on.

52:44That was my feeling. I think just on Mo Salah, these are players that, to be fair, I do put him in... We're talking about Ronaldo, Messi, Salah, Haaland, Mbappe. They're really the characters, to be fair, because they're so special... They look strange when they're on the bench. You know, when they're on the bench, they look like... Unless they're injured, they look... It's strange to see my... What Ronaldo does, just get warmed up. Just put yourself... You know something, bro? Just stand there ready to go. I'll put you in that character. If Ruud van Nistelro gets left out in a Carabao Cup final, if Roy Keane gets left out in a game, if Beckham gets left out in a game, you're almost, everyone else is feeling that uneasy in the dressing room.

53:21Everyone's feeling, this is not going to go well. Something not right, yeah. These players, you leave them out, this is going to be a bit of a car crash at some point because they're just not going to sit there and you'll almost have a thumb on their head. And the longer it goes on, like the second half, that they're not coming on, the worse it gets. I think there's a smell of when these types of players, and there are only probably like one, two or three in each league, every 10 years type players that you just think if they're left out there's going to be some form of calamity happens. They're going to spike.

53:47They're going to ask for a transfer. They're going to speak up. That was the only thing I thought from a Salah perspective. I agree with that. You know these players who do speak out the way most Salah do. It's like a Ronaldo, maybe a Zlatan. These type of figures who've got these big egos. I totally get that. And that's probably one of the reasons why it took so long to leave him out. Early on in the season when he used to sub a couple of times in Europe, that was getting rested. that this was left out. This is like, no, I've got to try and do something different. But you've got... We always talk about a manager who should never criticise his players in public.

54:18Can you imagine if Slough would have said about Salah after the Leeds game? Oh, he's been awful all season. He doesn't chase back, doesn't he? He hasn't scored a goal for us. What are we supposed to do? We've gone, oh my God, you can't say this, you can't say that about a player. But on the other hand, I think a lot of people have been critical of Mo on the interview. But then there's almost people defending the interview and I'm like, hang on, if this was someone else saying it about Salah, They'd be murdered, they'd be uproar. I'm right. So you can't say that. And the thing that frustrates me is, if this is someone who speaks to the media a lot, and he's always in there, and he's got a bit of emotion on the mix zone, he doesn't speak to the media.

54:51So when he does speak, it's like, he knows exactly what he's saying. And he's clever. The reaction of the Liverpool press officer was amazing. Brilliant. Yeah, yeah. The press officer, he goes, oh. When Moses was thrown under a bus, and there's a Liverpool press officer in the back, and he goes, oh. Was there anything he particularly said in the statement? He's thrown under the bus. That's the one you'd think. Yeah, I think, because what he's saying there is basically, he's going for the manager, isn't he, there at that point? He is directly going for the manager. But there's also a point when you see these players, if they let off a bit of steam or whatever.

55:20That's like a child. I've got grandkids. They're just having a tantrum. Yeah. I agree. He'll settle down a couple of days. Yeah, nobody's going to give him the thumbs up for what he said. Absolutely not. But also going, yeah, if he wants, if that's his way of letting off a bit of steam, then... Because...

56:04let him do it I think all players care and it's short in different ways yeah of course she does but those players to be fair those players tend to have a self like they look in the mirror at themselves and they look after themselves to be fair he's a proper professional and I say this with to be fair compliments to him because he's absolutely special they usually have a very very sort of what would be insular look on life that it's about them they are so important it's about respect as well yeah and I think they are so unique but has he got previous do you think there's a lack of respect to him no no it's not a case of lack respect, but in his mind, he'll be thinking they're disrespecting me.

56:39Because of the level that he's at. He's got previous against Klopp. He was taken off a few times and he's shaking the head. You know what he's like. I dealt with the my initial reaction to the Ronaldo interview a few years back was similar to Cara's reaction to Salah. I would have said the same thing if it was United player. If you're a special player at that level, I'm not expecting you to be fair. I'm expecting you to lift everybody. I'm not expecting you to try and sort of create more problems. And at the time, if you remember, we disagreed on that, if you remember. Yeah. Because you saw it from his side, which was, I understand why these players do what they do.

57:12I didn't agree with it at United under Ronaldo, I suppose. My view was, did you... Sorry, Gary, you go back to the Ronaldo stuff. I wasn't giving Ronaldo a thumbs up for what he was doing, particularly at Brentford when he was taken. It was at Brentford and 20 minutes later he was shaking. He said, I would say that about any player. I'd say that about you. But I'd also go, you have to weigh it up like everything else in life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ronaldo, the tantrums. I'd have him on my team every day of the week because these are the guys that get you this Salah's helped Liverpool get over the line with lots of other players and because you're part of a club it's a club effort but also you're going it's like everybody else you have to take the good and the bad but if you're a manager Roy and that manager says that about you he's thrown me under but you're not taking that in the right way probably not but I also think listen he's won a league title last year he's helped us win a league so you take it's the good and the bad because again Gary the beauty we talk about people on here like Ronaldo we talk about all the great players even Gaza the reason why they're great is because there's a bit of fucking madness to some of them we had Ronnie O'Sullivan sitting there we were loving Ronnie because Ronnie's edgy what do you get with these lads at that Leeds game I thought it was strange he didn't come on and I thought Joseph I can imagine him just sat down there on that bench I thought it's a bit weird yeah but if you look at Slott there it's almost like a power thing because why are you not going to bring him on in a game like that you think he was sending him a message right yes he was he was you're sitting there and I'm going to make you sit there I don't agree right honestly no I think you're going to sit there You're not coming on.

58:33I'm not going to bring you on. That's only my opinion, James. Because he could have easily defused it and brought him on because it's not like a game where you're winning 4-5-0. It's not about defusing a situation. It's about a manager trying to get three points. It was absolutely fighting for life. If he knows his players like he does... Cara, we're talking about Mo Salah on the bench. I know. And we're talking about Liverpool being 2-0 up. You're not going to bring Mo Salah on a 2-0. You don't need a goal, OK? It then goes 2-2. The only time we're talking about... Liverpool score five minutes later, OK?

58:59The ball's only in play. I looked at this on Monday Night Football. but the ball's only in play three minutes. So, okay, can he bring him on in that moment? But the guy who's in his position scores the goal. So he hasn't got it wrong. The guy who's playing in his position scores 3-2. He was never going to come as lie off, though. Okay. No, no, okay. But the point I'm trying to make is you get to 3-2. Okay? You'll say, okay, and I'm not saying that's totally wrong because Mo Salah could go to the other end and get you the goal. But Liverpool, and the reason why Mo Salah is not playing right now is the three games before, Liverpool lost 3-0 at City, they lost 3-0 at Arampton, Nottingham Forest, and they lost four in their home to PSV.

59:32OK? So the only thing the manager is thinking is defensively right now. Now, as time goes on, it'll be more about, we need to attack, we need to defend better. I either played him against Sunderland because I could, I'm saying, OK, I'm looking at the four fixtures, leaves them out against West Ham and I think, well, I'd always play Salah at home. Always. The team are going to be deep, he's going to be round the box. OK? And I was also thinking, he's probably not going to play my way at Leeds, he's probably not going to play my way at Inter Milan as well. And again, probably thinking, you probably can't put him on the bench four times.

1:00:02But against Sunderland, OK, the game's awful. You bring Salah on at half-time. This game's awful. You bring Salah on at half-time. What was really interesting after the game with Slott, because I'm coming away from the Sunderland game, I've commentated that as being awful. He spoke quite well about the game, about how strong Liverpool looked defensively, and said it was only a deflected goal. I thought, isn't that a strange thing to say? And then he did an interview with Pat Davidson, saying in the last two games you've looked a lot stronger defensively. So I'm thinking, he's totally just through the whole attacking.

1:00:30He's thinking, forget the attacking. This is about clean sheets. We didn't concede at West Ham, and we've only conceded a deflected goal at home to Sunderland. So I'm almost then thinking, OK, I'm understanding. He's not thinking about... So he's thinking, Mo Salah. I'm not thinking of the goals. I'm thinking, he doesn't actually run back. Yeah, but, Carrie, what you're describing there is a squad player leaving him out at Inter Milan playing against Sunderland. He's never going to accept that. You're going to have a war on him. Especially that kind of player. Bring the war on. The most important thing is the team and the club and getting results.

1:00:59And by the way, ever since Mo Salah's been on the team, we haven't lost right now. And he's trying to build almost some... We need to get confidence back as a Liverpool team. I get that. Let him go in Caramone. He's in Caramone. And then we can go on and try and get the goals. Mo Salah hasn't played well. I keep saying this. He's one of the greatest players for Liverpool. We love him. Player of the Year last year. But right now, the most important thing is not individual players, is getting the team back. And that's all the managers do. Yeah, but he's not sending a message to anybody. But the debate isn't, Jamie, the debate isn't about, I think we're arguing about when he was left out, there was going to be, so this idea of the manager leaving him out of the team, the manager's entitled to do that.

1:01:35He's trying to get results in again. But he must know what he brings. Yeah, no, the argument is going, when Salah's left out, get ready for fireworks. The respect of how you treat him. There's got to be fireworks when he's left out. How do you? How much disrespect? I would say the reason Roy and Gary sometimes disagree about Man United is because Man United always treated you with respect for Roy they didn't and I do think that like were you ever left out by a manager somebody like I think when he says thrown under the bus I don't even think it's about playing time it's how he's being treated yous were probably never treated like that by your club if you go through that you do have a different opinion I do think that but he thinks the same thing as well I know okay how has he been disrespected he's been on the bench right for six days Sunday to Saturday six days it was like this whole Liverpool career it's been two times how's Slot treating them away from the game well number one we don't know that most Salahs said I've got no relationship with the manager that's what I mean I know the manager then got asked about it he said I spoke to him on Friday about no play the day before the game he said he was in the office he was treating him like shit every day like you don't but you don't know that but you don't know he's getting treated with respect I know but you can't say he's getting disrespected I don't think he says that Jamie if he feels like he's being respected in respect of like respect and respect.

1:02:53But the thing is just because he feels like that. The manager said he spoke to him. He could have said So if he feels like that he's allowed to go out and just do what he wants. No he's not. I'm just saying that You need to be fireworks on your left don't you? You need to be a reaction. We're not agreeing with Salah but you're going as soon as you leave him for two days even if it's six days he's going to react. That's why I've just said when I'm looking at it I'm thinking OK you're probably playing my home against someone because for me I wouldn't play my way into my lap in a Champions League game right now.

1:03:20Salat at home and some away games I'd look at and think no that's not for me and you're saying you can't leave Mo Salat well you can and it's more the team's more there's a consequence there's a consequence he's not the Mo Salat of last season is he he's not we know that and the manager has prolonged it and prolonged it before he's left them out let's shift it forward you're saying that by the way I just want to make one other point about him coming out and feeling disrespect and just like this and I made this point and I'm glad I said it a few weeks ago the thing why I was so strong on Mo Salat was because I don't think it's an emotional outburst, number one.

1:03:52But number two, Mo Salah never comes out as one of the leaders of the team. You're saying how big he is. You can't leave this player. You can't leave this player out. He's so big. He's such a leader. He never speaks for the club. I never said that. No, you're saying... I never said... You're saying he's such a big... Because of what he's done. He's numbers. He's numbers, everything like that. What I'm saying is he's seen as a figurehead of Liverpool alongside Van Dijk. He never... Exactly. Have you heard Mo Salah speak at any time this season when Liverpool haven't been getting beat or not doing well, not about his own position, not about whether he's getting enough service or he's playing or he's getting brought up, about the team.

1:04:26I expect, and I'm sure you two did this at Manchester, and me and Stevie did it, when things are not going well, I think your job as a senior player is to come out and speak for the club and not let other people speak or younger players and actually send a message out not about yourself to the supporters, to the club, we're together, we're going to fix this right and actually take a bit of shit off the questions. I would have expected you to say what you said on the first time of responding to it. No, Would you expect Mo Salah to come out and speak for the club or a senior position in that position?

1:04:53No, no. And he never, ever does. It's exactly the same view I had with Cristiano, that I view that if you're the greatest player in the world or one of the greatest players in the world, you should carry the dressing room. You shouldn't expect them to basically sort of, you know, pander to you or whatever it may be. But the problem we've got here is that Mo Salah basically is now going to be left out. And you said yourself, you wouldn't play him in Milan. You wouldn't play him away wherever else. So he's going to become a squad player. That's only going to basically end in one thing. that means I okay so you're trying to tell me you're a manager you just play him every week because you think oh I can't put up at the ass there are certain players that I saw at United that if they weren't playing it was going to end very badly very quickly right and this will happen with him maybe people thought it would be in 12 months it just happened maybe a bit earlier that's my question I'm now that is down to Salah's performance that's fine my point is now does he need to now leave after AFCON and go in the January window because this is going to become a car crash and get even worse well I said on Monday should have a farewell and for what he's done farewell he should yeah for what he has done as a Liverpool player he's one of the in a lot of people's eyes the modern fan they will think he's the greatest player to ever play for Liverpool they won't have seen Daglish maybe half of them have seen sort of Stevie the younger ones so in their eyes this is the greatest player to play for Liverpool so rather than a little wave in the last game of course he gives a big send up but that's down to him could he not put up with sort of the next three or four months of what we're talking about starting maybe the home games, maybe in and out away from Paul.

1:06:19I need to cut in on you there. You said, you're the person who said to me, now I did that for three years, you've said on this programme and you've said it, I could not be that player, I don't want to hear me out, I could not be that player that was in and out of the team and sat on the bench. You've both said that. I think to be fair, I would have, I stayed at United for three years doing that. If you two can't do it, he certainly can't do it. He's one of the greatest players of all time. So he has to leave then, doesn't he? I did it for 18 months. No, my point is though, is you didn't like it.

1:06:46He hated it. He hated it. David Beckham hated it. My brother hated it. And that's why he left. You said I hated what? No, you said that basically you wouldn't be the one. Yeah, but it never happened to me. But I would have definitely been an issue. Exactly. So my point is, Mo Salah is seeing that happening to him now. He feels disrespected. I agree with writing, Jill. He does feel disrespected. No, but you can't do it. He can feel disrespected. He hasn't been disrespected. I know, but if someone feels disrespected, you can't change their opinion. I feel disrespected in here. Okay, that's okay.

1:07:11You're not disrespected. You are not disrespected. Anyone can say they're disrespected. No, but Gary, I think you can do it if you're kind of given game time in certain games, if you've spoken to, if you're brought on in certain games. He won't do that, Jill. No, I know about that. No, Jill, he won't do that. He will not sit and watch Gakpo play football, Mo Salah. Let's be clear, that's been respectful to Gakpo. These players, with their ego, with their ability, with what they've achieved, they don't sit and watch players that they think are inferior. They just don't. The thing is, Jane, whether we think it or not, I genuinely think he feels disrespected and nothing's going to change his mind on that.

1:07:46Okay, that's fine. Righty, does that mean he leaves after AFCON? I think so. I'm not sure if he will though, but I'm sure that... Where do you go from here? It's getting worse. It's just going to get worse every week. He's going to play next week. When does he get his form back then? When does he leave him into... He's been sub for six days. Oh my God. Right, listen to me. He comes on against Fulham. He plays really well He plays really well Against Fulham Right Let's say he's not Going to the AFCON He's starting the next game Because of his performance When he came on sub He will start the next game Liverpool have got You've said Gakpo Gakpo's hard I think Sir Bozlai's injured now Not someone to the Asia Chans He's not a young player He's Mo Salah But his performance Coming on sub Means he starts the next game He starts the next game He plays well He's in the team It's down to himself Has he been playing well?

1:08:35Because of who he is And what he's done Do you believe He will accept The principle of being someone who gets left out every other couple of weeks. I don't think he will. So does he need to leave? No, no. So what I'm saying is, no, we know that he's done the interview, so we accept that. The point I'm trying to make and I made on Monday is, he's not leaving to go to Inter Milan, Barcelona, we're talking the Saudi League. So you'd rather play every week in the Saudi League, or maybe, let's say, you play 50 % of the games between now and the end of the season. We're not talking on full season, we're talking three or four months.

1:09:03And as I said on Monday night, Liverpool have had a terrible season. But could Liverpool have an outside chance to get into a semi-final or a final of the Champions League? They probably could. The Anfield factor at home. Would you give up playing every week in Saudi and say, you know what, I'll stick to South for three or four months. I don't really like the manager. I'll start still 50 % of the game. I could play in an FA Cup final. I could play in a Champions League final. No, no, no. If you don't like... Especially if he's... Go play in Saudi... And he's already won everything there. He'll have options, Jamie.

1:09:31Massive options. We're sitting here and common sense suggests surely you could see until the end of the summer. I know he's got another year left. but they won't and he'll have his team around him he'll have options like you say Jamie he's not a leader he's obviously not fussed about what goes on in the dressing room so if that comes he'll go I think he'll go I think he does love the club but what I'm trying to say is that everybody says I'll see it out for three four months I'm not comparing my situation bloody hell most Salah's like a king but I've been there when you're in a situation and there's a bad relationship with the manager and people say, see how three, four months, it's seven days a week of your life every single hour.

1:10:13Take home. It's not easy to do. Add a year of it. It's not easy. If you've done it and you've done it, then it's not easy. I can see why Cara said what he said because I would have said something similar and did say something similar. I also see it from a point of view of that type of player sat on the bench looking up at a Leeds game thinking we've just drawn and he's not got me out there. I can see why he's pissed off and why he said what he said. And also, couldn't he have just left at a week? He's going to AFCON. Yeah. You're in AFCON now. Last point, I've been drawn into these things at United times.

1:10:41I find them quite uncomfortable, these situations, when I'm involved in these things. It doesn't seem to leave you alone. It chases you down the road for a couple of weeks. Because you're part pundit, but you're part a fan, really, as well. Have you found yourself in that position in the last couple of weeks where you think part of you is a fan thinking he's taking the... and part of you is a pundit analysing it with some form of lived experience. It's tough, isn't it? I think it's tough. I found those situations tough with Ronaldo, Oli. You know, times where I've thought, I'm conflicted here because I know the characters, I know the people.

1:11:08You don't know Mo Salah as well, but you know the club and you know the situation. You're getting drawn into it all and you can't get out of it. And you just love the club, don't you? Oh, absolutely. It does happen. The big clubs have big players and big characters and there can be a way back. He might get his head down and get back in the team and before you know it, you go, what happened in that few months? It can be forgotten about. He did mention it as well, didn't he, Jamie? He said, Carragher's going to say so. So he knew it was coming. you know the manager and the player and ego I just think with great players like that and I've never believed that players should be all treated the same in a dressing room I've never believed that and I do think they're not you saw my wage packet didn't you and for me when I'm thinking I allow things I allow things because not allow I think you know the great players should be given certain sort of benefits you know a great player most of the time I've been in a dressing room with Luis Suarez and Steven Gerrard and okay and it shouldn't be the same they should be treated slightly differently but I think when it's the off the pitch stuff and it's like the club I just think for me I'm too even when I was a player I was old for the club it was always like if someone Jamie yeah you're born you're a Scousie people keep telling me he loves the club yeah but you're born and bred that's why I say it's part of the family so we will have a different tone when you talk about United I'd like to think when I played for United I wanted to win as much as you but you would certainly have a different attitude afterwards I'd be forwarded but playing for your local team you will as well but I can't even more Salah and these lads were sitting there, they'd be looking at you a little bit, going, yeah, I get where you're coming from.

1:12:33They'd be respecting your opinion, but going, yeah, I respect your opinion, but this is how I feel. I feel I have been disrespected. No one's going to, very few people will sit here and literally agree with everything he said, because it was a bit harsh. But they'll also go, I can see why you're upset, why you're disrespected, because these players, who were used to playing week in, week out, and he's got previous, he'd done it with Klopp. He was upset with Klopp a few times, and that was being taken off, by the way. So he was starting. So if you're going to be upset at taking off, you're going to be upset for not to start.

1:13:00Roy, when you sign Mo Salah for two years, you're guaranteeing him a starting spot in the team for two years in his mind. Because what he's saying, if I go through a bad run, that doesn't matter, I will come out of it and I'll score goals because he's so, I know it's not right that in terms, you can't write into a contract that player has that, but he believes, and so does Ronaldo, and so does Zlatan, and so does Mbappe, I play, Neymar, I play, you can't leave me, Messi, I'm not leaving now, you can't leave me, irrespective of what I do, I'm playing. but that's what makes him great though yeah I agree I'm the first one to criticise players and managers but also we work with the top players and you say you do treat them we work with Ferguson he did treat Cantona different he would he would treat different lads differently you might go how's he getting away with that because you go they don't want to get it back on Saturday if you were in bad form which you probably will have been in 10, 11 years 12 years at United you were never getting left out you were always playing it's a fact you just played I remember he left me out when I was coming back from an injury at once but I was I was raging, but I didn't do any media stuff.

1:13:59Phil, he played down at Portsmouth. The manager, he pulled me, he named the team. Phil, I was coming back, and Phil was in midfield, down at Portsmouth. And you was expecting to play, weren't you? I thought I might come back in, but I'd been out for a while. And he named the team, and he pulled me after, his usual stuff, and he went, oh listen, Phil's done well in the last two, three games. Obviously, I'm not a problem. But I did say, well I've done well in the last 400 games for you. I said, I'd have a little look at my back. And then, the game started and I came on and I'm going I won't be left back out again and that was only for one game Jamie so I get it and I'm not more Salah so there is that part when you're used to playing I was like a lunatic if I wasn't playing for one game I was a nightmare you know what I mean that's what I'm talking about the emotion of it like people were saying like Roger Hunt I think took his shirt off and Shankly brought him off in a game and threw it on the floor but for me that's like emotion out of being there as a player you kill your manager wouldn't you sometimes if you weren't playing or he brought you off but I just think you've asked me three times if I haven't answered it twice I'm not going to fuck you does he leave Liverpool or not I think if Liverpool get the money that they want for him they probably will and he wants to go they probably will because they probably think we don't need the hassle I'd love him to stay because Liverpool's squad isn't that big I think there's still a role for him and I still think he can have a better send off and he can still have an impact between now and the end of the season in some big games.

1:15:23Is my take on this wrong that Arna Slott asked for an apology? He's not got an apology. He's obviously got him back in before the actual half-cumper. Is he now saying to the board, you back me or him? He's not apologised to me. Without a doubt, yeah. And you need to get... It doesn't have to be as dramatic as possible. If the manager wants him out, if the manager says, look, I've not had the apology, which we know he hasn't because he would have said. Flex him. And most of us never apologised and let's be clear, he just wouldn't. So he's my... But he can take the steam out of just letting it go.

1:15:51I think the manager's come out of it. Once you've said publicly, though, he needs to apologise, is that not something that you need to then follow up on? He didn't say publicly. I thought he said... No, he didn't say... I thought he said... No, no, no. Someone said, is Mo a paradise? He said something about, well, Mo's got to think he said something wrong to apologise. What he was basically saying is... And then I thought the manager... He obviously hasn't apologised because most managers would say, we've had a chat together and we apologise. He just said, we had a chat. I thought the manager handled it brilliantly.

1:16:17He didn't sort of prolong it, didn't make it bigger. It was right for the team after Salah came back in. Do you think the manager is saying now, though, to the club, I think we need to let him go in January? Listen, I would have a clue. I mean, I'm sure the whole government... It feels like that's just a scenario. That feels like that's what it's set up for. I think that probably could be happening. I think so, now. Yeah, but you wouldn't corner yourself. We're dead again. If somebody comes in and offers them and they want to go, we'd have a look at it, but I wouldn't think they'd be trying to shove them out the door.

1:16:39Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

1:16:46World Cup ticket prices for the next few minutes. Are they expensive? More expensive than your flights to Mustique. You know what, we laugh at it, even with the visas. I couldn't believe it. What's going on? Fans can't go. What's going on? It's like you've got, I think it's Nigeria, who is it, Ivory Coast. I can't remember. What's the average? They can't go. They can't get visas. Oh, right, right, okay. In Senegal, they can't get visas, they can't go. This is the world's game. If this was Qatar, can you imagine how everybody would be going on? Can we get more? What's that? If there's more demand on the ticket, can they put...

1:17:24Like the dynamic pricing. Whatever. Every sporting event, no, is expensive, isn't it? This is like high hundreds. What's going to happen? Is the World Cup going to be behind a paywall soon? Everything's paid for. Look, you can't even watch the FA Cup now. That's behind a paywall. Everything's behind a paywall. Now you've got the World Cup. How many tickets are for the World Cup? People can't even go there. You should have seen what I had to go through just to get there myself with the visa. They might not let me in. I'd be a result if they didn't let me in. You didn't fill that far, man. They don't mean you filled that far.

1:17:52Me and Nancy was there for like three days. Me and Nancy was there for like three days. It's ridiculous. Yes. Did you do yours? I was even going to put some stuff. The visa, what you have to apply for to get in there. When? Have you done it already? I've done it, yeah. The ticket prices are horrific, aren't they? It's ridiculous. They're horrific. What are they doing? Could you imagine if the ticket prices were that in Qatar, they'd be going mad. Do you know what you could do? You're a man of principle, aren't you? Boycott it. Well, that's what I'm going to do. Yeah, good on you, man. I'm going to do that if they don't let me in.

1:18:21You're a man of the people. If they don't let me in. No, there's only one man of the people.

1:18:28The only thing I want to say on it is the... You know the World Cup on, you know, the sponsors and... Listen, they make millions, don't they? Billions. And they give it out to the different countries and that's what gets them the votes to keep them in. A little bit like Premier League football clubs when they have, not as extreme, but you know when they put the ticket prices up all season, tickets, and then we say, but they're getting so much money from the TV, 100 million or not. You know this money that we're talking about here? I mean, how much more do they need? Do you understand what I mean?

1:18:59The money now is so much more the TV, the sponsorship than ticket price. I don't know what the game is. It's an elite game now. It's turning into an elite. I know, but I don't understand it. It's like a drop in the ocean compared to where people are. But you imagine for a fan going, If you're an England fan, and let's just take England, you've got to go, you've got to fly to three different states, which is going to cost a lot of money. You're not going to, like, one location, then you can sort of, like, get a train or something. You literally have to get flights everywhere, hotels everywhere.

1:19:25Everything's extortionate. Massive ticket prices. And you take that to, obviously, some countries. What was it like in the last World Cup, the tickets? Were they not? I mean, they were expensive. I'm not travelling, it was easier, of course. The last World Cup, to be fair, you went to one location, you didn't drive around. But this is, the ticket prices here, something has to be done about that. What's a group game? Can you give us an idea? I thought it was 400, 500 quid. But then it's up to 1 ,000, 3 ,000, 4 ,000. It's like literally... Tens of thousands of pounds. 9 ,000 for a ticket for the final.

1:19:51In Qatar, there was 68 pounds. And we'll need final tickets, England. You know the thing with America? Americans, as I spectate in American sport, it's quite expensive, isn't it? Americans. Like the Super Bowl or something. If you know how much of a Super Bowl ticket, I think face value for a normal ticket is about 3 ,000 or 4 ,000. Yeah, but, Roy, the host country should not be setting prices for World Cup tickets. That means you're a host country, the ticket prices shouldn't be set by the host country, it should be set by the actual FIFA. They should control ticket pricing, because the reality is they've got to make it affordable and accessible for fans all around the world.

1:20:23Now, it's already too expensive. But that's just... I mean, to get to the different parts of the world that you're going to have to get to, different parts of America and then Mexico... They should boycott it. But they won't boycott it. They won't boycott it, because they know they've got people. Well, you said the travelling's extreme over here, but part of the fun for fans is the travelling if they can afford it if they can afford it if they can afford it of course if they can remember it like Scotland they're based in Boston imagine the Irish fans if Ireland qualify New York it can be a great experience but the price of the ticket is but are we surprised at all are we supposed to be shot it's gone from it's gone from under 100 quid though Roy to like 10 times that you know what I mean it's like you might have gone to 150 quid as an example from 65 quid you can't go to like 4, 5, 6, 800 thousand and you just can't.

1:21:08Are we really surprised? Honestly, we just, the way the game's going in America. Because normally you think, right, I'm going to sort out where I'm staying and then, okay, I might have to pay a little bit over the odds for the ticket, but not ten times. Killing people. Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

1:21:27Right, now we're going to have a real row. Super 6. Where's Benjamin? Where's Benjamin for Super 6?

1:21:39The Super 6 rollover has reached three quarters of a million pounds and if it isn't won this weekend, it will be a huge one million pounds on the 27th. It's completely free to play. Just predict six scores this weekend and the money could be yours. And don't forget to join our mini league using the code S6-STF. S6-STF. Get your Super 6 picks in before 3pm on Saturday with a chance to win. 18 plus TNCs apply.

1:22:13How do we do the last time? Jamie, you look older than that. James, really... I'm definitely... This is where I can have a bit of a rest. Can I go to the toilet while, basically, with a rest? Here we go! Whoa! Here we go! Here he is, Mo Salah.

1:22:29Fix his hat. What's it? Oh, you look good. Who is it? Oh, it's Ben. His hair's coming off. Ben looks like he's lost weight. Are you going to speak? Ben, take it off. That's bullshit. Jesus, suffocating in there. Ben, what is that outfit? Who is that? Who is that character? Angry Grinch. Oh, the Grinch, OK. I didn't know what that was. Gary didn't know the Grinch. Did you not know that was the Grinch? Gary didn't know it was the Grinch. The Grinch isn't a popular Christmas. Brilliant. One of the most popular films. Cool. Super Six. How did we do the last time? I feel we're done all right. I got no text from you the last time.

1:23:09Yeah, no wonder. Right, last time. Okay. Gary and Jamie. Six. They've got eight. Six. Man City v West Ham. You've got 11. Wow. That's big. That's big. You know that's big. You got lucky one or two, I remember. You know that's big. You were a top 9 % player. Both we were. That's good. We beat over 740 ,000 other players. Roy, Jill and Ian, you got four. Wow. Oh, the two of you. We've just got in front before Christmas. I'm going to do a bus. I'm doing a bus. Have we got in front? I've been drawn under the bus with these two. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Top of Christmas. Oh, my God. Top of Christmas.

1:23:46Should we all wear T-shirts? Free Roy. Can I tell you what? I'm a team game, but come on. Right. City, West Ham. City, West Ham. Three o 'clock? It is three o 'clock. Three o 'clock, three nil. Oh, Christ. Yeah, three nil. That is so fucking bad. Yeah, they will. But West Ham. A bit better West Ham. West Ham are doing all right. Are they? 2-0. They're a bit of luck against Villa. Yeah, I'm taking control. Take them gloves. At home, Roy. You like them, aren't you? Nothing more golf. No, I don't. Ireland's got Hattrick in him. Oh, God. Roy's in a mood now. Brighton, Sunderland. Oh, it's us. 3pm.

1:24:27What time? 3pm. Troop Saturday. Brighton, Sunderland. Right in the... Strange. There's one team I wouldn't bet on as bright in his hair. I agree. Raw? Oh, they're both doing well. 2-1 Sunderland. No, no. 1-1? 1-1. Raw, yeah, I think Raw. You think Brighton? Brighton can open. 2-1 Brighton. 2-1 Brighton. Really? Yeah, but it's because you don't want to hear Sunderland. I like the 1-1. 1-1 was called you. But then if Sunderland win... Sunderland have all been on the A-11, haven't they? For three days. Christmas, too. Been on the pop. They deserve it. Are we safe? I think Brighton will be done. Are Sunderland safe now?

1:25:07What then? What do you think? You're right, right. I don't know. You can't call Brighton that. Exactly. No, it's hard. It's tough for Brighton. I probably would have said 2-1, would you? Yeah. You can't say 2-1. Difficult. No, you can't do that. Difficult. It's almost like it's a bit like... It would go to Anfield, Brighton, actually. To Sunderland. That's some vitamin C in me. Bournemouth Burnley. They'll still be out now. Saturday 3pm. Bournemouth will probably pick up a little bit. They'll get some confidence. Don't know. Bournemouth. They're not pressing as well. They're not pressing as well.

1:25:35I tell you what, Burnley are struggling a lot. At home? Yeah. Seven games. I know. Seven on the bounce. Seven on the bounce, yeah. Bournemouth will get goals. I think it'll be eight on the bounce. No, I'm not sure. I think two, two-nil. No, I don't. Three-nil. Three-nil. No, lads, that's where something happens. You're very predictable. We'll go go Burnley then. What are we saying? Go Burnley. Burnley don't have a good record. No, don't go Burnley. They've lost seven on the bounce. I don't think it would be Bournemouth. There was a good community question. 2-0. 2-1, 2-0 or 2-0? 2-0. Ian's gone, he loves Bournemouth.

1:26:06OK. They looked a bit open the other night. Tosnum, Liverpool. Salahatrick. Saturday, 5.30. Are you doing that game, Cara? Salahatrick. Off the bench. Off the bench. I love it. I'm doing that game. Sky took me off him. Did they seriously? No, I'm only joking.

1:26:21They disrespected you. I thought you were being true. They did, because I was only put on late. I'm joking. 1-1 or 2-2, I think. I think Spursky can get a draw. As bad as they are. They'll win that. I don't want a draw. I'm not going to London for a draw. Are you commentating on him? Yeah. Do you like commentating? I absolutely love just going to the grounds. This has got like a free written order. 2-2. 2-2. It's a definite draw. I feel like this is a draw. Cara, what game have you got? Just for the cameras, so I can clip it up. I'm seeing Liverpool win. We're part of the team. You do the next one.

1:27:00Yeah, do the... Everton Arsenal. No, they're next. Tottenham, Liverpool. OK, sorry. Yes, come on. Tottenham, Liverpool. Oh, I just don't know on this one at all. Tottenham, Liverpool. You've done that too, too. We've done that. Honestly, no. Gary's trying to eat as much fruit as possible. It's too late. It's too late on Gary. You said Gary, super fruits don't work after. You have to eat it before. I do. So it's in there. No, I'm not going to London for a 1-1. OK, no problem. I do something a bit crazy. He probably is a 1-1. I know. Something crazy is going to happen. No, I agree. I actually think Liverpool will win.

1:27:34I would have gone that. Have Liverpool got it in him to go and win there? But Tottenham's home record is horrendous. Yeah, but Liverpool's the kind of team you know. Get yourself going for Jame at home. Was it 2-2 United? Liverpool at home saves the season. We'll go Liverpool 2-1. I'm not going for a draw there because I'm doing the game. I can't go draw. I fancy Tottenham, actually. Everton Arsenal. Saturday, 8pm. Everton have got a few players out. Wow. Yeah. Who's injured? That's a Saturday night on the couch now. Where are you at with Arsenal? No, I'm happy. I'm happy. You've got to be. Calm?

1:28:05Yeah, got to be, yeah. Not quivering. Get past Christmas. I think that's a decent game for you. And Di's out. I think he's going the half-con. Realish is out. Oh, is Greenwich out? I think so, I read that. I'd like to know if Gabriel's back, I'm not sure. But I'd still say we're beating him with the odd goal. I think that'll be a big win. 2-0. Realish is out. I think it's got a kind of like... I think Everton might get one from a set piece, mightn't he? Maybe. A car skate. 2-1 then. 2-1 Arsenal. 2-1 Arsenal. Hold on. That's on Gill and Rydie. Just again for the cameras, I would have gone on. Leeds, Crystal Palace.

1:28:41Leeds are better, by the way. Leeds is... If Palace can see... Leeds have turned my head. I think Leeds at home are going to be a tough one. I can't call that. Palace are tough. Go on, righty. Yeah. I fancy Palace to do something but like the atmosphere there is so good if they can see that often see it often but they keep coming leads you're arguing with yourself I know I know I'm thinking out loud he's good at it I'm going to go with I would go Palace go on then 3-2 Palace too much yeah got big I'll go home Palace got you over if you call that that's a good day you're going to go LAUGHTER Honestly.

1:29:26Definitely a... Leads high energy. Yeah. You going leads? 2-1 leads. 2-1 leads. I bet you probably beat them. Well done, Ben. Not yet. I like those. Thank you. It's Christmas, so we're also doing a thing called Naughty or Nice. Oh. Super six, so choose an envelope, and in it there's something naughty and there's something nice. It's fine. And it'll affect the predictions. Is it? Oh. Is this for the two of us? It's your group and your group. Which one was here? Choose one fixture to count as an automatic correct score. Right, guys, which fixture do you want to have as an automatic correct score?

1:30:01And then we'll get more points. No, you just guarantee points for it. Oh. That's nice, isn't it? Merry Christmas. The one we're not sure about. I think that's the one we're not sure about. We're not sure, Palace. Yeah, Palace leaves. Yeah, go with that one. So you're locking in. Yeah. Yeah, we'd have to hand one to call one. That's nice. Bro, what's naughty? And then our naughty is swap two score predictions of the opposite team. Why two? Swap two. Why two? Because you need to swap them around. Oh. Because you need two, don't you? So we'd swap like something. We'd swap a prediction, one of ours.

1:30:31So if we swap that two, it'd be 3-0 to Burnley. Yeah. And then it'd be 3-0 to Everton. Yeah. Yeah. I tell you, man. Do you know something? You're literally messing around with literally a scientific thing that goes on. So you're not saying. Yeah. So you're basically doping a competition that we've won. Can they do the same to us? Well, let 2-0 here to Burnley. That is a great deal. I don't think we can love if Burnley won their team. Imagine if it's going to be against Arsenal. What can we do? Select one prediction to double the points on. Which one are we most sure about, Cara? City West Ham.

1:31:11Yeah, but do they have to get the score? City West Ham. So if they can get... They can get 10 for that. That's ridiculous. The league's over then if they get it. Oh, my God. You've got barely to win 2-0 at Bournemouth. No, I know, but you can see they get 10 points. And our naughty one is we've got to change one of your opponent's predictions by one goal. So we will give Everton a goal. That could happen. We will give Everton a goal and give them two. So you're going to go 2-2? Yeah, we can change one. The one's got two. I don't agree with this, by the way. I do. It's great TV. Oh, yeah. Thanks, Ben.

1:31:44That's what is good. Thank you. That's killed us. No, but you can still get 10 points from getting that one. Super six, thank you. Well done. Well done. Who came up with that, by the way? No, this was a good one. Yeah, but we could jeopardise two scores. I think I get 10 from one.

1:32:06OK, so first question. Go back over there, Jim. We're going with the betting thing. What is the most important position on a football pitch? we've done this midfield you obviously goalkeeper but Man United goalkeeper toughest position in football fuck it is Gary there wasn't the toughest only the Man United goalkeeper striker must be hard it has to be striker you know if you've not scored for two or three games you know the pressure's building it yeah striker striker's hard yeah I think so goalkeeper get all the glory don't you how poor would a goalkeeper some of the goalkeepers do you know goalkeeper is so much tougher than striker you're right the standard of goalkeeper in the Premier League honestly I watched them goalkeepers with three players around them on set pieces those balls being whipped on top of them and I'm thinking who would want to be there you've got to punch it you've got to catch it imagine being 6 foot 4 and the ball's coming in an inch winger so you can punch it and punch somebody with it I go back to Seamus McDonough I walk with him at Ireland I was in him last week no no he used to say violence come with violence I love that come with violence knee somebody in the back punch it and then punch somebody else with your other hand.

1:33:13Wow. And then you get away with it. Then you roll it on, you get a free kick. Yeah, you did that in games, not the goalkeeper. Punching with one hand and then punching with another. Boom. I actually watched a clip of you. I think you actually just punched someone. I'll find it. I couldn't believe it on YouTube. Do you watch any of the goals I scored or the passes I made? There's an agency about you, watch. Oh, that's just come to me now. I thought you were going to say something about Harland. Do you see the thing with Harland? What? About I'm coming on the podcast. On this one? Which salad? Oh, yeah, you asked him, didn't you?

1:33:47Aylan, yeah. And he said something about, I'll bring my dad or something. Yeah, he said he'd bring his dad. Yeah, bring him all his family, yeah, no problem. We'd be ready. Tell him to bring his dinner. Bring your dinner. Bring your dinner. Bring your dinner.

1:34:04That's brilliant. And I tell you what, you can bring your mate and you can bring your dinner. Yeah.

1:34:13Brilliant. That is the best, that is. Right. We've got three strikers that were bought at the start of the season that were obviously sort of, clubs were looking after them. Sesco came to United, Jokeres came to Arsenal and then obviously Izak came to Liverpool. Where are we at in all three? I'll come to the striker first, starting with Jokeres at Arsenal. You know what, he had a little spell there where he looked like he was going to gain a bit of momentum, then he got the injury and then he'd come out but he's got what four Premier League goals I said on here if he gets 10 to 12 be delighted with him How many more penalties did he get?

1:34:49I'm not sure I'm not sure how many penalties maybe two I'm not sure but like if he gets 10, 12 I still feel like you take that but like watching him the other day physically as well especially as he's not getting much chances in the box for whatever reason he just he just looks like he needs to just How much did he pay for him right? He was a 60 odd and it's weird that you're saying but you'd be happy with 10 I would be happy with 10 in this game. I know, listen. That's a game as well where you're thinking if I was as a striker playing that game looking to get two, three goals looking to make people see because what happens in that game you know, because Wolves are where they are as a striker people look at me or that's Calum and say, well he should be getting at least two in that game.

1:35:27People talk about him as a player that scores against the lower ranked teams in the league and he didn't really look like he was going to score the other day but like when that's happening as a striker you've got to do everything else well so people say, no but his chance will come because you know what I mean and that's not happening for him at the minute even some of the play you can hear the groans in the crowd and I'm desperate for him to do well and the reason where you can change people's like thinking about your play is just blast into a few you know sometimes you know chase you know like if it goes from the goal and he's passing it across the back chase the lot of them down smash the left back and then get the crowd up and do stuff like that before the ball comes in the box you can score that's what I would say to him I said, listen, you've got to put yourself about a bit more.

1:36:12I think he's been the way he was described when he came, actually. Obviously, we don't watch him every week, but we see his goals. His goal record's fantastic, but there was a lot of people saying, wasn't he, I'm not quite sure he's top level. So you give him a chance, you watch him, and he does lack a little bit of class, doesn't he? I don't think he'll end up being first choice. I was going to say, is it too early to say that they need another striker that's top class and he becomes second choice? They've got four, haven't they? You can sort of play there. I think he's the only real centre-four.

1:36:40He's like the natural. Is it too early? Or are we saying that Arsenal are OK? They just keep with him? Well, they've got four players who are all probably not... No one's world class, but to have four players for one position, you have Habert comes back. I think he just rotates them. You know, the thing is, Gareth, I think it's too early, but there'll be fans who will be thinking it. I think a lot of the Arsenal fans are... They're desperate for him to do well as well, but they need to see more. And this is what I'm saying. If I would say anything to him is just put yourself... Look like you're busy, man.

1:37:08and look like you're putting yourself about, throwing yourself... That's all it is. Because I think that he can score goals. Be more of a nuisance. That's what it is. He needs to just do more in that regard. Because 10 goals, let's face it, you know what I mean? It's not a lot of goals. I said that early on in the season. 10 to 12. You're saying, what, is that all? Look, he's only got four. If you had to rank them in terms of the top three so far, in terms of all three of them have struggled for one reason or another, who would you say sort of one, two and three of how... I still have Isak as well.

1:37:34No, no, I know you picked... No, but Jochen has just been... Yeah, yeah. Jocker's been better out of the three, hasn't he? What I'm saying is, just going off of there was one. Of course, Jocker is because he's got four goals. I think Isak's got one. Amity Sesko got two. But the thing is, I saw Isak score a goal against West Ham. Just instant bam. That is what I'm talking about. That is what I'm talking about. I interviewed Miki Van Der Ven last week. He said that Isak was the best striker he'd played. I thought it was quite interesting. I saw him. Obviously Haaland, obviously all the others. I saw him against Gabby and Saliba when he was at Newcastle.

1:38:10I've never seen anyone. He tore them to shreds, scored a brilliant goal and everything. He's the one that once it gets himself, he's brilliant. And that's what I'm saying, even with Jokeres. When you see that ESAC finish against West Ham, you think, yeah, that's it, there it is. And that's what you need to see from him. We've just not seen it properly yet. And too early on, Sashko, because of his injuries and just the beginning out. Yeah, again, I know we've no patience on here. with players but sometimes it does take lads a lot longer to settle in and yeah I thought he was better with a partner all the time yeah just look like you're more of a get someone close to him you might need that as well so when he gets to that moment even if you're not putting him on the back net be a nuisance or do something yeah I'm telling you Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing

1:39:03Right, what would our darts nicknames be? Oh, that's a good one. I've got one for Ian. Ian Flight.

1:39:13I like it, Jill. Did you know this was coming, this question? No, right. I know that, but you just thought of it there? Yeah. Well done. I'm quick. How did he get the nickname? Is it like that, like a nickname? Yeah. We focus on one at a time. We focus on that, will we? Gary doesn't have to rhyme does it you need a double so I could go Gary Neville Neville you know a little bit like Gary the Neville Neville Gary the Neville Neville

1:39:46Jamie Carragher Jamie Carragher what are we going to do there's got to be something I think Jamie the loose cannon Carragher Yeah, I'll check that. That's good. And the cannon. You can have a cannon on your back, everything. You can come in and lose cannon down. Jill, what did you say when you swore in that game back all that time? Fuck off, you fucking prick. Oh, you could have prick because... Exactly. Jill the prick. Jill the prick. Jill the prick. Jill the prick. Jill the prick. Jill the prick. Come on in. Jill the prick. Perfect. Where do you go as the prick? I'll take that. And then Roy?

1:40:26What are we, Roy? I am good at that. Yeah. Roy the Mean Machine. Yeah. Roy the Mean Machine. Yeah, Roy the Mean Machine. You like that? Because look, he's got a dark serious guy. His face can go serious. I get a little prick and he gets Roy the Mean Machine. The Mean Machine. Yeah, good names. I've got all my questions. That was good. Is there any more questions? We can end it there, to be fair, if we wanted to. We can end it. One more. Who will win AFCON is a ding? Egypt Egypt would be amazing wouldn't it for him to win it I'd love it to have Salah had to get a final Salah in the finals or score winning best derby in the Premier League kill someone I mean I think you love the Sporos Arsenal don't you yeah historically if you said growing up can I say I have to say because obviously sometimes City weren't Merseyside derby was probably the derby that you'd say growing up in the 80s particularly with how Everton and Liverpool were doing I'm not sure I'm saying that today now in 2025 are we can I be honest I think if Sunderland stay around for a bit that derby is worth watching but I don't think anything beats the Tottenham Arsenal do you think so I really do honestly because Liverpool Everton kind of like it's more it's more Liverpool like it's more based towards Liverpool same with United with City now but our one with Tottenham and Arsenal you don't know it just feels like no matter what you're doing and like even the other day okay we beat them like we did but going into it you're still really nervous about that game you hammered them we hammered them yeah but I didn't realise we were going to because it's the derby and you know with the derby you don't know what's going to happen but we did hammer them to be honest it won't make me feel any it won't make me feel any any more comfortable in the next game because you know it's just the derby I'm scared of them which of our ex-teammates would win strictly and I think we should give Karen Carney Karen Carney let's have a message for Karen vote for Kaz yes vote for Karen Carney she's amazing and she's fantastic.

1:42:22How well has she done, by the way? Honestly, I'm not joking. I'm not into it now, is it? It's a final. Not there. When you look at Kaz, you know, she's just so just placid and calm. Have you seen her dance? She's like an explosion. Yeah. But that's what she was like when she played football. George? George and Amber. I can't remember. You wanted to dance, right? No. Prince comes out. Yeah. All the best, Karen. We're rooting for you. Well done, Karen. You know what, though? When she used to play football, As soon as she stepped over that white line, she was just like a monster. That's what she's done.

1:42:55She's gone right in. Brilliant. I'm so proud of her. Four cars. What a place to finish. That's it. What an interesting episode. Can I have a whiskey? Six hours. Gary, good phase to end. What an interesting episode.

1:43:14Thanks for listening and thanks to our partners and clothing. subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode