Man United’s Downfall After Fergie & Roy’s Ryder Cup Rage! | Stick to Football EP 98

0:00Just before we get started, a quick thanks to our partners and clothing. we hope you enjoy the show oh I love my bit of sun at this time of the day do you this is perfect last bit of summer this as well but it drops you know it gets cold where are we doing the show from here I'm just going to do it here where am I sitting I want to be well if we're going by stick to football you're here oh no I've got me back to the sun I will move give me a second yeah yeah oh stop but you've got the vacuum behind you we're not living are we no this is my best time of the day this bit of sun I love it on holiday between half four no five o 'clock till about half seven where it's not so intense the heat yeah I just need a half an hour blast if I get a half an hour blast that'll do me it's not too hot even is it when it's this time of year as well I don't ask for much I just that's all you need good people for the sun for the peace.

1:04It's all asked. For the peace. Why don't people give you peace? You know what I mean? People, places. That's why you need to be in the hills here though, isn't it? I should have put my speedos on. Speedos. I love that. Forget the show, just leave me here. Do you like the sun? I love it. Are you happy to sit up for hours or? I don't think, it depends what time of the day it is. Now, yeah. I couldn't in the middle of the day. It was hot up here earlier when we were setting up. Oh, just that breeze is nice, isn't it? Yeah. See, this is what happens. People spoil it. Look, he's coming in here now.

1:40That's what I mean. See, this ruins it. And it'll be all noise. You know what I mean? I should do my own podcast on my own. Do you think so? I like that. And just chat. No, even just on my own. You can just talk. Just chat. Just you talking. Oh, I care, man. We're not living. I definitely want to move to a warm climate Where would you move though? Rome Move to Rome I prefer Italy to Spain Everyone seems to go to Spain I think so yeah I think I prefer Italy I was thinking if I came to Italy when I was a player maybe Would I have like really Stayed I was staying but would I have really like Embraced it you know the language, the food What a life you two eh What a life What a life Where am I?

2:27Over there, Gary. I'm in Roy's seat. I need to get up. No, I'll move on. Where did it all go wrong? Eh? We should do this more often, Gary. Yeah, we should. I was a bit hesitant about it, really. I thought they'd all say no. They like it. They love it. Everyone else will do it. And I think, they're about to say no. Could we just do it from different locations every week? I think we should. Get an overlapped villa. Do you not need sunglasses? I'll tell you where we should do it. You don't need sunglasses. Yeah, I know. I'll tell you where we should do it. We should do it in Roy's coffee shop thing he took us to.

2:57that little barn area that'd be good to do it in one week I tell you where else we should do it we should do it at the Arn shop in Liverpool it's hard though you know it's tight to get the cameras in I feel like when the end of what's that film Ocean's 11 or 12 when they all walk out onto that balcony like Ocean's 12-y you're over dressed righty I'm not I ain't got f***ing who else that sun needs to go I'm telling you it needs to f*** off oh it's perfect can I sit there no can I sit here because he's happy there You can stay there then. Yeah. On my own, dog. Don't have anybody now. Righty, he's next to you.

3:35Righty, no arguing today. I'm not going to argue. I'm right in the mood. Look where we are. We can't be arguing today. Don't start. You know what? I just put myself in Righty's shoes, right? You can't believe your luck. Over here, walking with us. You are living the dream. I've been f***ing around at Burnley for f***ing all them years. F***ing us up, Alice. Get out of that then Get out of that

4:04You'd been offered a contract by BT at the time, hadn't you? Nobody said I had

4:12It's infuriating I'm not meant to be sitting in my house infuriated by watching a football match Am I showing personality and character? Am I standing here getting like a volley of abuse? Just get down the tunnel Oh, this is New York This is New York I thought he was in Goodfellas then I'm dealing with a fan and that's not getting in I don't need you to tell me what someone's saying I didn't see him signing autographs afterwards by the way

4:37on a minute he's waiting

4:48righty you've had some journey since the end of football haven't you how do you mean you've reinvented yourself because no one liked you when you were there well tell me let's talk about your journey right if you're in the football you get to the end of football how old are you you're the guest you can be the guest today 36 right and then you're 36 and then what happens what's the first thing you do what's your first job you know something ITV signed me up to do that that Ian the Friday night's alright show right signed me up to do that and so I thought that I had a life of TV presenting coming up and it was pretty good at the time because you're interviewing decent people.

5:25But why did they ask you, Ray? Were you doing stuff before that? You know what I've done? I'll tell you what I've done while I was playing. I've done Top of the Pops. I've done a thing on Top of the Pops, and it's quite chaotic because you have to do... You have to be moving there, you have to do the link, then you have to go over there. What, you've done a few Top of the Pops? I've done a couple of Top of the Pops. I've done a couple of them. That's not live, is it? It was, yeah. It is live. Who are you presenting with on Top of the Pops, right? On my own, mate. On your own? Yeah. You presented Top of the Pops on your own.

5:49There's more money in there if you're by yourself, if you're doing it with somebody else. But right, that's two iconic shows that you've been on, like Match of the Day and Top of the Pops. Probably the two most... Would you say they're the two most famous programmes historically? Like Coronation Street, maybe? Now you say Top of the Pops was massive, and then Match of the Day is what it is. It's the governor, isn't it? But, like, yeah, I thought that... I didn't know... I wanted to do the badges, but, like, the agent side at the time, they steered me away from that. I told you, haven't I? Yeah.

6:21I really wanted to do those because I had a couple of years where I could have just, like, done those, see if I could have done them, see if I was capable of managing or doing that. And now I'll never know. I don't think I could, but... The time, you mean? The time commitment? Yeah, yeah. I wish I could. I wish I would have done it when I had the opportunity. And people used to say that. You're not having a go at management? Yeah. Well, it's not even to do the management. I liked being in the dressing room, even when I'd done that bit for MK Don's for a year. Oh, yeah, yeah. I just love being in the dressing room.

6:48It was brilliant. Just being in there, seeing when the guys played well, when they played badly. It was really... Wasn't it crazy? Sorry, Ray, you make the point there, but for any of us, I think doing the badges is good for you, but it's strange that a lot of ex-players who played lots of games, I know there's a commitment to doing your badges, but some players should be like... Imagine Ryder at a big club now working with strikers. Do you think he needs coaching badges to do that? There's an argument to that, especially if he's got a lot of commitments. like Riley makes points there about attackers and you're thinking are these attackers, are clubs getting them kind of coaching points from a brilliant ex-striker?

7:23You're like wasted in a sense isn't it? I remember I was playing, I have to drop one in I was playing golf with Johan Cruyff we had to play some golf in France in UEFA Golf Day and he said the exact same thing he said why does a player who's played all his career need to have a badge. Now, I know there's reasons why you need to have badges, but he says, why would I need to? He said, well, is it because you can't sit on the bench? He said, well, stay in the stand and let someone stay down there, but why shouldn't you be able to manage if you wanted to? And it's not, you know, the point is for like lots of experts, it's not about going up and necessarily taking coaching sessions, it's just about giving key, like when Des was on a few weeks ago, Des talks about centre-halves, you go, they're just like, usually like, like factors for a player that they mightn't be getting in coaching sessions, but just an experienced player imagine going up to Riley talking to his young striker at Arsenal or Man United and going listen these runs it's just little pointers you can give somebody you wouldn't get that I'm like that people say to me about coaching I've got no interest in it or something but obviously I talk to my son a little about the game he plays my position but it's coaching but it's not putting on a training session but it's just your own experience of games like a perfect example was I did an Anil Harland's goal against Brentford the other day I'm watching there and I've been there as a centre back and I know exactly the mistake he's made on what he should have done that's not because I'm a coach that's just because of you've played hundreds and hundreds of games at top level you know situations like that I'm led to believe Ajax years ago I don't know if I I've read somewhere Ajax do it where they get 5 or 6 ex-players to come back every few weeks and they might look to watch 11 v 11 against like like academy players but like me going back into United or you going back and I'm watching a game but I'm just focusing on the midfielder.

9:13Forget about everything else and after 20 minutes they stop the game and I would just go over to the midfielder and go, listen, you're getting drawn out too wide or you're getting in the wrong position, you're not getting a half turn. And it's only like 30 seconds you go back up and play and you'd go and speak to a full back, you'd go and speak to a striker. That's priceless for a player. So how long are you doing that for top of the pops? Well, I've done about, I think I've done a couple of shows and then that's when ITV they offered me that Friday Night's Alright show and I remember I had to do it where I had to do a pilot, Roy.

9:45It was a nightmare because it was just going to be Network which is just going to be in London and then all of a sudden Lionel Richie said, I'll come on to it. So I think we had Lionel Richie was it Chris Eubank and I think Nassim, Prince Nassim Ahmed. I think we had, I think those were the guests. What, your first show? Yeah. On your pilot? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it was the pull. And then what I was, honestly, it was the most... I was petrified. Yeah. Because then now it's national. It's going all across. It's a deep end, isn't it, that, really? It really was. And the thing is, no auto-cue. So I had to do all the words and all the stuff.

10:26Righty, I want you to get us that copy of that. I wouldn't want to watch it. No, let's put some in the show. Be nice. Oh, God, I wouldn't want to watch it. And I had on all leather as well. and I was trying to be like shaft but like um I remember I messed up the first two or three because it was a long monologue to start and it was live audience there family was there everybody's there and I came out oh sorry when I come it was like when I went back the third time I thought I was gonna cry said I can't do this I can't do it I remember my guy was it Bob Massey came out he said listen you know what you're saying just slow down take your time breathe just come out and just speak at a nice nice tempo just tell us what's going on what's going on in the show Ian you know don't worry about what you what you've got in your head what's going on in the show I know it's hard you know I mean and then you know something I didn't realize how tough it would be um when you're doing a show that's recorded because they could stop you when you're in your flow and say hang on a minute can we just and then you know you have to start again and this is why Once I started doing live, I prefer to do live because, bam, it's just happening as it's happening.

11:33But, right, I think that's the most uncomfortable that I see pundits and feel myself is when you have to ask the managers questions sometimes when they come into the set. You know what I mean? You're thinking you've got to ask a question. And getting a question out concisely, it's difficult sometimes, isn't it? You end up saying too much or you don't say enough. And then the thing is as well, what happened with me after I'd done that show, then it started to get a bit of momentum. And then I remember Michael Parkinson done this scathing, like attack on you oh honestly oh no and the thing is you know what you said you know what I just read it I see what he said there's no need for that though honestly it hit me to the core it touched me to the core you know what towards the end when he was in he actually he did apologise to me for that piece what he wrote about me do you think he was worried was he still doing that it's not that he was worried was he doing that at the time yeah he was there because like what happened was did he see you as a challenge that's what I'm saying it didn't see me as a challenge but that show what I what Lionel Richie came to do with mine.

12:27He was meant to do that show and he said, you know what? I'm going to go and do his show. You know what I mean? And he came and done the Friday Night's Racha and I think he might have had a bit of the ump about that but he'd done this and I read it and I was, honestly, I was devastated. That's not good, that. It really, it cut me to the deep, it cut me deep and I was like, Jesus. I think it's like that when you get into a football team or when you join a broadcaster, your first experiences of who you're working with, they can either decide, they can make you a failure or they can make you a success.

12:57I know sometimes you can stand on your own two feet, but if the production team and the hosts bring you in and make it enjoyable, you're going to be better. You're going to enjoy it. And all of a sudden you think, right, OK, I'll be longer. But it can easily go the other way. It can easily go the wrong way. And I thought that when I came out the first time to try and do it live, I thought this ain't going to work out. I should have sticked to the coach. I wish I'd done the coaching. What are you doing during the day then, right? Are you just doing the TV stuff? No, you're just doing a lot of reading on the guests that you're going to be doing.

13:25Yeah, you're doing a lot of reading on that. Reading about Lionel Richie. What a guest could be at that night. Did they help you a little bit? Yeah, especially Lionel Richie. In the end, you had to sing a bit of a song with him. It's so cheesy. Righty, bring the show here, will you? I don't know where that show is. I don't want to see that show again. People, I'm sure, will find it now. But it was one of those where when it finished, I think it's the most relieved I've ever been. It was really tough. I found that very tough. But then you get going. Then all of a sudden, after the first couple, they said, look, why don't you try this auto-queue?

13:56And then they put the auto-queue, and then they sort of gave this long dialogue, and I'd done it without even slipping, and I said, could I have had this at the start? And they said, yeah, we didn't think you'd... I said, you didn't even offer it. They could have taken away all of that. I could have been totally different. Why didn't you go into hosting football shows, like, you know, Football Focus or... Because the managers and the agents I had at the time were... The monies that I was getting offered there... Entertainment. Yeah, was much better than anything else that I would have been able to get at that stage.

14:25And they wanted to keep it flowing like that. And it was just like a result for them because my career's come to an end, but now I'm going into television where I can go for another few years and they could do the exact same thing what they're doing. It was easy for them. It was a poor decision for me. I should have got rid of those agents years ago, ages ago. When I think about the three of us, really, I mean, I didn't know what I was going to do at the end. So I did TV, I did coaching badges and obviously a bit of coaching. And then I did the businesses. I didn't have a clue. but you were absolutely fixed.

14:54You're right, you went into culture, you were adamant you wanted to be a manager, you didn't really want to be a pundit, did you? I don't know if I really wanted to be a manager either. Obviously, I'd done my badges and then the kind of Sunderland one snuck up on me, I'd only just finished. So I wouldn't say that was part of my plan but sometimes something comes in front of you and you have a look at it. The Sunderland one was... I certainly wasn't... I'd only just retired from playing, remember? It was only a few months. And when they asked you, when they said to you... Well, I actually said no to Sunderland at the start.

15:23And then I was away on holiday and I thought, Sunderland, obviously a really good club, they were struggling. And instead of over-analyzing everything, I thought, why not? And I had no regrets. I thought, yeah, I'll go up to Sunderland and give it a go. But it wasn't part of my master plan, shall we say. Even though I was obviously doing my coaching badges to, at some stage, have a go off it. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. What advice would you give now, all of us, to a player that's getting to 32, 33 and they're about to get to that point whereby their adrenaline rush every week is going to go and they've got 35, 40 years of their life left and they know they're going to end up basically not stimulated every day unless they do something.

16:07What advice would you give them now? You know, the thing is, Gau, is that whatever man says, playing football for a living is the one it's the greatest thing that could happen to a boy for me from where I come from it's the greatest thing that can happen to a soul to be able to do to make a living out of what you love, what you're passionate about to be able to do that then that's coming to an end you have to try and find something to replace it because if you try to find something that's just going to get you a job for you to just continue to be it's not going to happen for you and this is why we hear it but you can't just say I'm going to go into the media because you don't know whether that path is going to be successful or not This is why you have to find something.

16:43You have to be a bit open-minded. Yeah, you have to be very open-minded. A lot of ex-players, the danger is, obviously, the biggest challenge for a footballer is when you stop playing. Don't sit in your backside either and think something will happen. Like, try management. Right, try going to whatever you might want to do. Then you'll find a path that works for you. Even when you're 32, 33, you don't know what's going to happen in the next few years, but something will open up for you. But don't be sitting on your backside. That advice, Ray, I got that advice from a local comedian in Liverpool called Willie Miller.

17:11now he did the after dinner I've met him yeah he's probably took the piss out of you er but he'd obviously see your next players he was in with the players he knew the players well so he he'd do the after dinner stuff with them and all that and something's always he just he just said to me when I was coming to the end listen I had Sky and things going on he just said fill your diary and it's always stuck in my head as if like this thing who'd advise that fill your diary and that was always it was and it was a bit like always makes almost like not every single day but you've got somewhere to go you've got something to do and the Sky thing was obviously a weekend isn't it you know you got offered because I remember getting the call I was in Norway or Denmark I can't remember which one it was and you'd been offered a contract by BT at the time hadn't you nobody said that

18:03I could see you doing that Sky Sports producer ringing me saying look Cara's been offered a contract by BT but he'll only come to Sky Sports if he can do Monday night football and I said yeah I'm okay with it you'll bring him on but that's what he said to me that you've been off I thought that they deliberately put you two together because of Man United Liverpool no it wasn't planned like that what happened with me was my I knew I was finishing the end of my contract I had 12 months to go so in the in the summer we did we did on the Euros yeah so not we I mean I joined you were part of ITV so I did it that summer not because I wanted to see what it was like and that summer that summer I said to Kenny who was the manager of Liverpool just before the season had finished could I shadow you over pre-season I've just fell out the team I know me last year I'm not going to really get back in I wanted to just have a little dip my toe in a bit of punditry and then Kenny lost his job obviously they changed him for Brendan Rodgers so Brendan Rodgers came in and I was on holiday phone he was on the phone for about an hour talking about football his ideas his plans and he just said at the end of the phone call would you want to be a player coach I said I'd love to I said I've had this conversation with Kenny and you know it'll give me a good opportunity and then I met him face to face in Liverpool and he changed his mind which you know so we brought Mike Marsh in from the the academy and he'd worked with Jose Brendan if you remember Jose every club he went to he almost he sort of promoted a club man sort of next to him didn't he I think Steve Clarke did that at Chelsea he did it with Kieran McKenna yeah exactly so I think maybe I don't know if Brendan was thinking okay an ex-Liverpool player he's got more coaching experience you know get that and I was fine with it it was fine no problem but he'd offered you the job had he of player coach Brendan he said it on the phone and then I'd never met him face to face so it was just a chat on the phone he said would you like to do I said love to yeah who do you think has put him off that before he's met you then it could be anyone you know what it's like people always say They don't, they're an experienced player.

20:08It could be after your job or something like that. That was what people used to say years ago, didn't they? That's got to have an element of something in it because, you know, Jamie Carragher, one club man, you know, coaching in the background if it's not going well for me. Maybe. You say, Gary, have a plan, but sometimes you have to be adaptable, don't you? If the coaching door shuts and you'll be ready to... Whatever you say about ex-players, there is loads of media opportunities. I'm not saying that's for everyone, but be prepared to... like, righty, go, throw yourself into the deep end. That's not what it is.

20:38You know, beggars can't be choosers. Sometimes it's do what, it might be local radio, it might be mainstream TV, but be ready. But you know, the thing is though, just on that with Roy, is that I'm pleased that I went and done that because I don't want to do that. Every now and then, they ask me to do, but I want to do the football now and that made me realise I want to do it, talk about football. Yeah, sometimes you do something and then it proves you don't want to do it. I mean, you've got to dip your toe into it. What about management, coaching, media stuff? There is opportunities out there for ex-players who've had some sort of career don't sit at home going oh I'm the ex-player no no you have to get up off your backside and do something whatever it might be I think I made a when I look back now I think I've never been obviously in coaching so I don't know what the buzz would be like when you get a result or how you feel afterwards but the way I used to feel as a player when it hadn't gone well and we'd lost I look back now and just think you know what I don't want that I love football you know I love football but that feeling I used to have have to get in peace the beauty is if you've been an experienced player you just mentioned you're coaching with young players or you become a manager or coach and then you go into punditry oh that's a big help that has to be this is a different type of experience yous get asked questions that we want to about management or coaching or dealing with a player yous have all got that experience that I haven't got you mentioned losing as a player you're right when you're a manager I could have honestly I used to torture myself I remember even with MK Don's done it with Carl Robinson for that year and it is seeing what it used to do to him and how it needs to make him feel because obviously he's got to put on one face for the for the players whether he's angry or he's sad because he can't say certain things to certain players or he thinks let him down we'll talk about those players and that players he could have played but and then afterwards when you're in like me and him driving back in the car sometimes you think i think he's gonna cry yeah really and i thought to myself you know after the year i remember my miss i said i i can't do that i don't think i could do that i don't think I think I've got the personality to be able to do what I saw him do.

22:33Go in and lie about a player that should have done more for him or players that haven't done what he's asked them to do and then say, but hey, just keep, I can't lie. And what happened recently, I think, again, players are having more power. We've seen that. I don't want to go back as far as the Bosman ruling, but the players have so much power now. Every time you read a manager's interview, they're just desperate to keep the players on side all the time. So even if you do have a go at a player, even if it's through the media, you're just worried. Basically, you need the players more than they need you.

23:00And that's a hard place to be sometimes. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. We've all become pundits, or people who work in television mainly, and offer opinions on players. Do you ever think about the responsibility that you have? Obviously, you're an ex-player, so you've been where they've been and you've made their mistakes and you've been criticised. It's never pleasant when you're criticised as a player or a manager or a coach. It's awful at times, particularly if you think it's personal. What about when you see players or you see managers talk now about the fact that what's being said in the media is having a big impact on players?

23:39I know the easy trope, and I've thrown this out in the last week and I thought, should I have said that? Or you shouldn't be playing for Manchester United if you can't take the criticism. That's the obvious replies and there is an element of that. But is there more than that now with almost the elevation of the noise that exists around everything? Yeah, but if you're going to play a top-level sport, you're going to have to get used to setbacks and criticism. That is part of your journey. Is it more constant now for the players? I think there's definitely more. Obviously, again, when we go back to, we've played more social media, there probably is more media coverage.

24:12More noise, more podcasts. There is, but I think the top sports people have a mental strength to say, again, nobody likes getting... Nobody likes getting criticized. But the top people have a way in their brain of going, I'll just push that to the side. You have to. That's part of, if you're going to play four, five, six hundred games, you're going to, and sometimes it is personal, right? I feel that's personal on me. Right, and sometimes it is from certain people. Right, so who's personal on you? Sorry, right, we've all been criticized. I think sometimes most of it does feel personal, of course.

24:43Like all the ragpapers, like, you know, the people. So the newspapers back in the day? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And plus, because it comes in... So that's from journalists, isn't it? Yeah, but the thing is, it was kind of criticism that went further than football. Yeah. So then, you know what I mean, it was just nasty. Whereas you talk about, like, me now, I know off the back of how they made me feel. I would never be criticising people to the point where they... Do you ever feel you've overstepped the mark, right? No. Can you think of any time where you feel like you might have been a bit too harsh on someone?

25:14No, I think that... You know what? It's funny because, like, with Micah, even though obviously I'm tight with Micah. I remember he was playing for Villa once. I was doing some punditry on Match of the Day and he was a captain at the time. And I mentioned the fact that as a captain, I don't think he should be there. And I don't think that had anything to do with it. And I think he was right. He was vexed with me for a bit. But other than that, I don't go for that person because I don't dislike anybody enough to say I'm going to say something that can throw him the other way. What do you think about the fact that when we're speaking, you talk about the player, what do you think about the fact of the impact on their families?

25:52Well, now it's even worse. Because I know if I was criticised, I know it actually would impact my mum and dad more, particularly in the newspapers. Well, you know the thing that happened with me is that I used to get in trouble for my mum because I used to, even when I scored, they'd find a negative of what happened in that game if I had a conflict with the ref or with a fan or something. They'd find a conflict. The amount of times that police are waiting outside the dressing room because they said Ian Wright made a gesture. And what would happen was, is that my mum, my aunts and my uncles, those people who read that, they believe all of it.

26:22They believe it. So my mum, I'd always get, my mum would say things to me, what's wrong with you? Why can't you be normal? Look how long it's taken you to get there. Why are you being like this? Why are you acting like that? And I said, I ain't done nothing. I said, I've not done nothing. This is what they want to do. This is what they want to betray me. I didn't, honestly, right. In some of them games, I didn't do anything. I remember I scored a hat-trick at Yolville in the cup. everybody went up to Yeovil to watch Arsenal get beaten by the giant and scored a hat-trick I'd done a thing like that because I was getting stick from him I'd done that and they took the picture where it was just the two fingers and said why does he have to spoil it because they took this picture out of it that finger out of it so it looks like I'm giving two fingers it's a beautiful chip remember it and the thing is I didn't want to do it but he left himself open your family I think when you're a player I don't know what you used to like I used to almost create this bubble around me where like it was just you know if things weren't going well you know I drive to train and I train I come home I deal with the people in the dressing room the manager and it's just like but it does affect your family because you get you create this it felt like this you know ball of steel around you a little bit but the worst thing with your family is if someone is criticising you or your phone in or Liverpool supporters they tell you and you'll be like that's what happens yeah yeah don't worry leave me alone don't worry about it Exactly.

27:40You've got to deal with it and I've got to deal with it. I'm dealing with a fan and that's not getting in. I don't need you to tell me what someone's saying. But it does affect, you know, I know it affected my dad all different things. But surely when you're playing again that level, I think no matter what criticism I was giving, if I was a bad game or going through a bad phase, it'd never be as bad as the criticism I would give myself. Yeah, your family course to pick up. Do you think you were too hard? I'm talking about myself but I'm thinking about all of us, yeah. I look back at my career and think I was far too hard on myself and I always hate myself.

28:09But I think that's why you played 700-nod games. Yeah, I get it. You need to be your own worst critic. You have to be. But I'd judge myself if I didn't. Oh, I did. So did I. Because the thing is, coming in the time I came in, I always thought it was going to get taken away. I always thought... Yeah, but that would drive you on, right? Honestly, right. The only thing people say about you, you were hungry, you were a fighter. Yeah, but that... So being harsh on yourself also... I tell you what, it was well, right. When I signed for Palace, after going through all the trials, and then you finally sign, and then he says, Steve Copple said, I'm going to sign you as a professional.

28:42And honestly, everything just lit up in me. Then he said, for three months. I was like... Talk about the fire. They fucking extinguish it. Can I ask you something? What if he gave you a three-year deal on the spot, really good money? Would you then maybe not as hungry, do you reckon? At the time, Roy, I was just so pleased that even when he said that, even when he said that, it stayed with me for a little while while I thought, OK, so... You said you went to Arsenal. Arsenal weren't throwing up money like crazy to you so that kept you no as far as you see United as well I don't know about Liverpool it's well documented these clubs these managers go no just keep them on their toes maybe that's what he's doing yeah of course that's exactly what he's doing keep the hunger we see young players now getting four or five year deals we see it all the time they get huge money quickly and they just lose the eye to Tiger you see it I think that's what kept me that's what kept me because I never stopped thinking like this next contract I was two years that's my last I never stopped thinking like that.

29:40I was like that. I was the same. You know what I mean? I bet you we were all the same. And then when you got good money, you thought, I better get, I better really improve now because I'm on big money. I don't want them thinking, oh, he's relaxed now because he's on X amount a week. So it just drove you on. And all the top players we worked with, it's never about the money. It's about the challenge. You're not right with the amount of money that they get now. The amount, can that do something? I don't know if it would do anything to me. I don't know because I never got the monies that they got.

30:04But that's where the people around you and your family, it doesn't matter if you're on 10 grand a week 100 grand a week the people around you you're on about your family hurting your family my family that's all good that's all feeling the pain when you lose a match or you've had a bad spell that keeps you that drives you on that's your DNA This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing I want us to go back to 2012 13 and Sralix Ferguson is about is six months away from leaving and David Gill is six months away from leaving. What can Manchester United, if you go back to that period now, what do Manchester United do that means that they don't have the next 12 years that they've just had?

30:48Which is lack of investment in the stadium, lack of investment in the training ground up until this year, and a team that's underperformed and spent£1.5,£1.6 billion. How does that, if you go back to that route there, what changes? Well, there was always going to be a drop-off, wasn't there? Was there, Roy? Because I say that, but then I look at to be fair I look at what Slop's done after Klopp I know it wasn't quite the same dynasty and I think do you know something that sort of made that changed my mind a little bit because after Wenger there was a drop off with you and I Emery after Slop after Klopp I was expecting there to be a drop off but there wasn't so what could have been done there in terms of sort of think about this massive problem that's been created for the Klopp chopping and changing managers David Moyes after eight months you think when you look back I mean I was on television at that time it was my first year well second year actually at Sky and I was adamant that they couldn't sack him just purely out of Manchester United had always given managers time and I went just stick to what you do and now he was having an awful time and it was you say an awful time was he jokes aside where were United at the time how bad was it I think United was it 7th that season was it 7th I thought it was a finish the drop had gone from 1st to 7th you're not used to seeing United there that's what it is I get that but why your honourable the club's trying to do the right thing whatever and obviously results were on about at United you have to win so David Moyes did he sign a six year deal when he goes there and he's gone eight months later that's not good is that David Moyes' fault or the club's fault I think do you think the team I always look at that team and I I think I said this at the time that that team won the league the year before didn't they yeah listen you know Ferguson's record and you know he's right up with the greatest probably managers we've ever seen was his brilliance in almost fooling everyone at that team.

32:37It was a bit of that, yeah. That has to be. And I'm not having a go to say they won the league and they won it by a decent margin. But when you sort of, they didn't really buy anybody big that summer. No, I mean, if you remember. It was almost like we've got a title winning team, let's just take it. They were getting Bale, Cristiano back, they were getting Baines, they were getting Fabregas, they were getting... Yeah, that didn't help David Moyes. The speculation of the players were getting in and then, remember, the last minute deadline, So I think, again, straight away the fans were like, well David Moyes has been in Everton.

33:07This is a perception of what fans are thinking about. He's never won a trophy at Everton. Bringing out Everton players in. So already, some managers go in there like, they're almost snookered from the start. And David Moyes, he said it a few times, he had these kind of players lined up. And he spoke with them and the deals were never done. Do you think that... Sorry, when Liverpool, when Klopp won the league with Liverpool, I know you're on about changing manager. Where did they finish the following year? Didn't have a proper drop-off? They did, Roy, but to be fair to them, they lost four centre-backs.

33:38Oh, yeah, there's all the circumstances around them, but Liverpool, where you go, Klopp won it, you go... I think they finished fourth. Right, but like a point, so... I'm going to say, I think they were like 30 points worse off. Oh, no, they only got fourth on the last day. Yeah, and I think they were like 30 points worse off. Yeah, yeah. So it can happen in terms of different circumstances, but it was always going to be a drop-off. Guy, you're talking about then, Guy, what they need to be doing now, because you have to start somewhere, United, in what's going on now because it seems like you can't see the end.

34:08No, you can't see the end at the moment. You can't see the end. So when you look at him, Jason Wilcox, he's the technical director. Now he's the sporting director. So Man United are just promoting. Why don't they go out and get a top director of football who is going to? City wouldn't do that. Arsenal wouldn't do that. Well, United did do that, didn't they, with Dan Ashworth? Yeah, but then what's happened to him? They have to go again? How many months was he there, Dan? Five months. It wasn't long. They'd wait a couple of years for him. He had big compensation and he's out the door winning. Surely they've got to do something about that.

34:45They've got to do something about their director of football. He's the technical director. How come all of a sudden now he's good enough to be the director of football? That's now. To be fair, we can go to now. But back then, when you think about what's happened... Yeah, but we would never envisage this for Man United. So you're thinking, OK, it's not working out for Moyes, but they'll get a manager, it'll be fine soon. And then it just hasn't. That's what you're thinking. You know, we've talked before about punditry and us putting things that we say at times can affect other players. But when you think of predominantly Manchester United, they are the club in this country who have probably most eyes on them and media on them.

35:20And we say, you can't be good enough, or you're not a Manchester United player if you can't deal with that. but do you think do you think it's tough for them to become they're not a Manchester United player straight away they almost have to grow into being a Manchester United player do you think they're almost it's too much for them before they even become what you want them to be in some ways because it feels like so many players at United leave I don't say they're going to be amazing world class players but you think they do a lot better somewhere else than they do at United it feels like that happens at United more I definitely think there's something going on in terms of the environment that has to be the last few years.

35:56There have been too many good managers going, too many good players going, and it's just not happened. Listen, they've had some cup runs, and they've been a cup team. But yeah, there must be something going on. Again, my mindset always thinks of what the trainer ground is like. What's the culture like? Are they driving each other on? Are they training properly? Are they decent lads? Have they got enough quality to play for them? Are they brave enough to play at Old Trafford when things are going against them? Every time he gets into an arm wrestle, no, they seem to go under. what is the what's the yeah but Roy what about the fact that Man United's old ethos is built on youth look what's happening to players who come through the academy at United at a minute that's something as well you could go back to the Busby Bay all the way to class of 92 to now look at Manning Rashford McTominay wherever you can go what's happening with that with Man United the one thing I'd say we're not daft and I've said this before when we played at United we're not daft we knew there's a business side of football of course but I always felt that United rightly or wrongly that was always about the football first and then there was obviously a business side to it in terms of tickets and chairs or whatever but that comes from the football but I think it seems to be it's more about the business side and the football seems to be behind the business side that's how it feels and that's how we're reading about United the numbers and new stadiums and this and that I think I'd like to see it be a good business as in build amazing stadiums training grounds have amazing facilities, fan experience.

37:23I'd love that because I don't think that actually you have to have one or the other. I think you can have an amazing business and I think you can have an amazing football team. Doesn't that come with the success of the team? That's the kind of thing that comes right. We've got a great team. Let's build up our training ground, our training facilities and let's keep that going because our teams do. It should be all driven by surely football. That's right. Of course, football's number one. Of course, football's number one. When you look at United, I don't see it as the United that we were involved in.

37:53It just doesn't seem... It certainly doesn't seem the same. No, we're near the same. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

38:10The Super 6£1 million jackpot is still up for grabs. It's crunch time. If it's not won by the 26th of October, the season leader will be walking away with the lot. so now is your chance to get involved. It's completely free to play, just predict six scores this weekend and the money could be yours. So if you fancy becoming a million pounds richer, get your Super 6 picks in before 3pm on Saturday 18th October for a chance to win. 18 plus TNCs apply.

38:40Right. Shall we start the show? Oh, is this a show? Sorry. Jesus. I thought we'd done it. We're in Rome, by the way. We're in Rome. Hey, nice. It's brilliant. Hey, we weren't expecting this. Brilliant. What show was that in that one show? I was sat at home last night. Look at Rome. I was sat at home. Brilliant. I was sat at home last night and thinking, oh, why did we agree to do this? Why did we just do our normal show in our normal thing? But then, actually, now we're here. You're going to. No, I'm all right. Someone just put on their favourite Italian dish. Cacio e pepe. Is that pasta? Yeah.

39:14With the cream and pepper? No, you know this one where you've got that block of cheese? Oh, yeah, he's served in a block of cheese. A block of cheese, and then you put it in there. Oh, that's fancy, that. That's ketchup, pepper. Favourite Italian dish?

39:27But right, he's a guru, isn't he? He knows everything how to eat it. He didn't pronounce it. You're going to let me go with that? Jesus, I already told you not to cut your pasta off. No, it's the tone. It wasn't the tone. It's in front of everybody. Carrie, are you not doing Italian food? Lasagna. Lasagna.

39:46But you know something? There's a thing about lasagna. I've got to have I've got to have crispy and not too much that creamy yellowy stuff drippling out. Yeah, I know what you mean. A bit of crisp on top. It's got to be a bit crisp on top. It's got to be when you cut through it you can slice it. I don't hate lasagnas that just go out slops away. The lasagna and casserole you never put a latim like that. He's having a free meal hasn't he? Oh, what do I have at Puccini's? At Puccini's in Swinton I used to have I used to have yeah Yeah, he's got my own pasta in there.

40:19Roy, what's your pasta? Bit of spaghetti, spaghetti bolognese, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to go for the same. 4-4-2. Well, this programme is going to be centred around. We've done this before, but is there anything in football that you have noticed lately that you would like to get rid of? To get rid of? And then we're going to get rid of? Oh, long throw-ins, I've had enough. Yeah, can you not go? Oh, no, I love long throw-ins. You can't get rid of long friends. I'm glad they're back. Listen, listen, it's so good. Why have they come back? It's an entry into the box, Jamie. James, James. You know what, James?

40:51I remember when I was a kid, Wimbledon came up, so that must have been late 80s, and it was like long throwing, Vinnie Jones, long throwing. It was almost looked down upon, and then more teams done it. But it's now become like every team in the Premier League has took a long throw. I get it later on, and it's something. You know what, James? Can I just say, James? The game's becoming... Can I just say, James? They've had a good throw, didn't they? When you watch the games now, people can get to the last third and it can still end up coming back to the goalkeeper. I'd rather them throw it in the box and let's see something.

41:23I would. I'm tired of seeing this, recycling it back. Cara, is there not a happy medium somewhere? Defenders have got the best passing possession in the fucking game. Cara, you're the best analyst in the business. I want you to tell us why long throws have come back. Go and do some digging. I asked a question on Sunday during the Brentford City game. You know why it's come back? It's not just long throw-ins, it's kick-offs. Have you seen kick-offs now? Everyone's getting caught on the flag. Now, don't forget, if you go back 30, 40 years, God rest her soul, Graeme Taylor was absolutely vilified for that sort of style.

41:55He died out with Andy Gray in his first game for Poland. Yeah, you know, kick it out with a corner flag, you know, all that. And that was sort of looked down upon 30, 40 years ago. The game has moved on to technically, and, you know, more football's played, that's fair to, you know, playing out from the back, a more technical game, whether that's Pep Guardiola. and maybe we have gone too far with that. I think that is definitely, there's definitely something to say for that. But I think what's changed is I think when the big teams are doing it, it becomes fashionable. It's not looked down, like I said, the smaller teams.

42:24So PSG last season actually started doing that kick-off in the Champions League and it came from, I think Luis Enrique took it from Lille. There's another French team in the French League who were doing that kick-off and maybe getting success from it. Paris Saint-Germain started doing it. so then if the European champions are doing it we can all do it and if you actually remember Arsenal away in PSG in the second leg last season they battered them for the first remember PSG couldn't go and it was just long throwing so Arsenal now are like almost the best set piece team probably in the world and it's like well it's good enough for the team top of the table it's good enough for the league champions so everyone's doing it it's not like oh Big Sam's doing it or Tony Purius is doing it we'll turn our nose up at it the best teams in the world are doing it and getting success I've got another theory that if you think of what Charles Hughes did all 30 years ago, which was that basically position of maximum opportunity pomo, which was so widely disregarded, and actually, to be fair, at the time, blamed for England's downfall in technical football for 20 years.

43:25I generally think this will be coming from data and AI and analysis of stats of where you lose and where you win games and how you score goals. I think this is coming from something that's more clever than just... I think it has caught on, but I suspect there is definitely data behind it somewhere now. But they, well obviously, well the set piece, it's done as a set piece. Do you know what I mean? We're talking about corners and penalties. That's always been a big factor in football. I don't think anything in football now, I mean anything is getting left to chance. I think it's like every mind, It's squeezing everything out of it.

43:57I heard a phrase a couple of weeks ago and it was digital twin. And I think these clubs, Not you and Phil. Hey, we said that, I think we told the Chuckle Brothers for 20 years digital twins it's amazing but you think about it you can replay a game now through data analysis and AI and create the game again and say where would we have won that game if we'd done different and I think generally they're getting fed details and points almost like they've played the game again on some sort of computer system like some form of digital twitter and they get all the data from it but Neb do you not see this way of an entry into the box no I completely agree of course you're getting big bodies in there you're getting people attacked Charles Eusroyd the biggest ever study and research programme of scoring goals.

44:42He did like 10 ,000 games or something, and he worked out that the ball had to get into this area so many times, and you would win football matches. It was a real deep piece of work. It was unbelievable, really, ahead of its time. Yeah, it was before his time, wasn't it? Because now, like you say, it's the margins now. It's about winning however you can. It's like I was saying about watching the game. It's so hard to watch sometimes. You watch a football match, like Brentford and City the other day. it was a tough one to watch when you were in England was that a long throw I'm not joking Liverpool remember Liverpool's great night against Barcelona they gave him a couple of quick corners it was like so there's set pieces I noticed that long throw there's set pieces win world clubs do you know I have a problem with long throws long throws I think to be fair it's the time it takes for them to be set up so for instance when we used to do it I would sprint down the line if a centre half was coming up Pally sometimes came up for a long throw he'd sprint up we'd do it quite quickly it wasn't like or Teddy would sometimes go and stand on the touchline and make a run like sort of five yards towards the six yard box and I'd throw it towards the six yard box and he'd come away from the centre half so what Teddy used to do really cleverly let's say that's the touch line there he'd run away from the centre half so basically the centre half was never getting to him he was always just nipping it on he was clever at that do you know Thomas Frank when he came in at Spurs this summer so he must have done something on TV and there was like a board behind him about what the day was you know like the thing and one of the things was throwing auditions to all the players used to be so he's coming new to the club so people would see who's got a long throw yeah basically yeah that's what it was right at Cal did that at Salford last year I can't remember which player it was now they worked out an unbelievable long throw they just literally said right everyone go and stand over there I can't remember who it was didn't Liverpool get a throwing coach a few years ago when he was criticised for that club yeah yeah yeah but surely a manager's job is to find the best way Arsenal got criticised a little bit everyone's given a bit more credit now as a manager you've got to find a way to win a football I think it's unbelievable what Arsenal's on corners it's one of the things I'm mesmerised that's your word mesmerised but it's unbelievable but then it still comes down to the delivery is unbelievable but how can they always get it right because they're obviously doing a lot of work on it the quality of the ball in is unbelievable the thing I would get rid of would be the player going off for 30 seconds after getting injured I hate that I think that's so punishing for a player who might have been fouled or kicked who's gone down and needs treatment and then basically has to go off for 30 seconds stand on the touchline and wait to get back on whilst the team, to be fair, who may have been the perpetrators of the foul could go and score.

47:12I think that's going to cause a big moment in football at a key point where there's a genuine injury or a genuine point where it can cut or something like that and they don't let them back on and then all of a sudden there's a massive goal scored 11 v 10. I'd get rid of that not calling the offside, offside when it goes through. I just can't take it anymore. You know, I can't and it makes me want to throw something at the telly every time. And then you think, oh, maybe he's not. And then it gets down to, and then the line goes like that. And I'm like, I just can't. That is so infuriating. I'm not meant to be sitting in my house infuriated by watching a football match because someone's not calling someone offside.

47:51When I've seen in my living room on my sofa, he's offside. Yeah. Just put the flag up. What about managers? What about managers moving the manager's technical area further away from the touchline? so it's not right on the edge of the touchline. I'd actually give managers... No, I'd give them more technical errors so they can go further than that. It annoys me a little bit seeing managers like... Did the Chelsea manager get done the other day for running over the... Yeah. Did he get... But that was like a last-minute goal. But did he get a booking for that? Yeah, but he got another yellow card.

48:17Marescu's OK. I don't mind that. After every game now, all managers on the pitch, everyone shaking hands with each other for ages. The managers hugging other players. Most teams are all walking on the pitch at the home game. Lap of honour. Sorry? Lap of honour. I think they got that For the women's game, you know, because the women, after every women's game, they walk all around the pitch. Oh, that's fine, Dan. And that's something that's just come in not too long, I would have meant. No, it's not good. You just shake everyone's hands and leave normally. No, to be fair, I don't mind away from home if a team have won and then they all go over to the away fans, clap and then go off.

48:49I don't mind that. I'm okay with that. Yeah. Here's one we've got to get rid of. What about when the away team have got beaten, being beat badly and they go and see the support? Is this new thing? I'm kind of taking on games. and they stand there they're just standing there clapping like this they all stand there and the crowd are going mad at them it's a bit like am I showing personality and character I stand in here getting like a volley of abuse just get down the tunnel and someone always ends up arguing Jared Bowen did Jared Bowen someone always ends up involved just clap and go clap and go clap and go right I think I might have to make an apology why what's that because we said the World Cup final was basically They had...

49:31The Ryder Cup pushed it close, I thought, you know. I thought he pushed it close. That three days was incredible television, that. Unbelievable. And like I said, for three days. Roy's saying it was over after one. How bad were the Americans, by the way? Can I tell you something? Yeah. Can we just talk about the Americans first, Roy, just quickly? They were so uncouth, bro. Yeah, yeah. I agree. It was disgraceful behaviour. And like, the thing is, that's America at the moment. Well, the apple don't fall far from the trees. Exactly. And that is where they are at the moment. And you know what? You know, one of the worst things about that, none of the players have come out and apologised for the way that they've acted towards the European players because that will not happen at a dear manner.

50:09I guarantee you, in Ireland, in two years' time, it will never happen. It won't happen. But they were wound up and pumped up, Keegan Bradley, all of them, oh, this is New York, this is New York. And, like, we ain't got no problem. I thought he was in Goodfellas Day. We got no problem with banter and, like, but in their backswing shouting shit like you fat F to like Shane Lowry when he's getting ready to do his puttin it was just disgraceful no football no football match no sportsman would have gone through what they'm like did it put them off of course it put them off but they got through it of course it put them off Rory told them to shut the fuck up while he was playing he turned around and told someone to shut the fuck up that doesn't happen anywhere else this is what I'm saying the levels of strength for their mentality is something I can't even fathom it.

50:58It's a brilliant watch to figure out. It was amazing. Rob said it was over in the first day. It was over after two hours. Anybody who watched golf know it wasn't over. It wasn't over. It was over after two hours. Of course it was. And everybody's like, oh, you never know on Sunday. You know something? That last day. Nothing happened on Sunday. That last day. It was over on Friday after the start date. Last day, I think only one of them got a couple of half nights. Yeah, because they knew they could lose it, Ian. America could never win after two hours. Exactly. After two hours. I can't believe I'm here in two hours.

51:27I must admit, on the Sunday on the way home from Newcastle Arsenal, I was watching it for three and a half hours. I have to say, there was a moment where you thought this could be... No, it was never going to happen. That's the way it's designed. It's meant to be a little bit close. But it's like a football team. You know, we're four and it up and they get one back. You go, could you jump in? We go, no, that's not going to happen. We're four and it up. This is why you put the players out. You put out. That's why you load it at the front with a bit of players and you try and put a couple at the bottom of the experience, like Shane and Bob McIntyre.

51:53I know all that. I know all that. for that eventuality just in case it gets to a place where they because the Americans are much better at singles because they're more selfish and it's all about them. The English players and the European players are used to the foursomes and the four balls. I'm watching the home. Playing for someone else. It was over after two hours. I'm telling you now. I'm not going to argue. I'm not going to argue with you. You should have done a bet with me. I should have done a bet. I'd have won the bet. I'd have won the bet. I told you it was over after two hours. No, no, no.

52:17I would have won the bet because it was a better sporting event than anything I've seen. I thought it was one of the highest pressure environments you could put in a sport when you're thinking about sort of the putts that were going in and the sort of atmosphere. So you tell me, right, I'm no expert in golf. I don't play the game, but I watch top-level sport. So you're setting the pressure on these players because some people were shouting. Come a footballer and go to Leeds or Anfield on a Tuesday night, let me tell you. These guys play in big torrents every week, so all of a sudden they're going to be upset by a few yanks.

52:45These people are right in the... You know what? I'm not even going there because I know... All right, right. He's driving me up. You've got McElroy. McElroy's won all the big prizes. Do you think he's going to be upset by a few people? It's ridiculous. And then they get upset because of their partners. Let me tell you why you said to your partner. If I was a golfer and my partner was getting abused, I said to my partner, my wife and my girlfriend, going, just stay at the hotel, love. I'll see you tonight when I get back. Because you don't come to all the other tournaments. But guess what? You get a new outfit and you come to the Ryder Cup.

53:15Stay at home. You've got a lovely new outfit. You've got a new belt. You've got a new handbag. I'm going, I'm getting loads of stick. Well, go home. Right. We need to get Rory back home. And I guarantee you, they're going back to a nice hotel, you know what I mean? They're locked in a camp. No, no, no. The thing is right. You know why the wives are here? Oh, here we go. Go on, Nick Valdo. Go on. You know why the wives are here? Because it's meant to be a lovely sporting occasion where you bring your wife. But they knew that before. They knew that, Ian. Are you telling me? No one knew they were going to get that.

53:45Yeah, of course they did, Ian. They knew they were going to get something. No one can say they knew they were going to get that. six months wait till you come to America it's going to be of course they knew they were going to get abused they knew they were going to get abused but it was never they thought Rory McIlroy had to tell someone to shut the F up well he shouldn't be swearing either should he hey I didn't see him signing autographs afterwards by the way

54:07on a minute he's waiting for he's got flags

54:14yeah exactly listen I'll give you that one thanks I'll give you that one I'll give you that one thanks Nick thanks Thanks Nick Don't call me Nick Farrell I did enjoy watching it It was over on Friday If you're a golfer It was not over on Friday You'd sit there And I was petrified Right up until Shane Lowry Because even when Shane Lowry done it For us to retain it What was the final score Please I'm serious I think it was 15-13 That's a lot That's like 4-1 in football Isn't it It's not Who's the most annoying American golfer that you thought over the two or three days? It's not even that they were annoying, because I quite like Bryson DeChambeau.

54:56You know who's annoying me? It's Keegan Bradley, the captain. He's the one that tried to call a foul on Justin. Did he sit running down with a flag? Yeah, the flag. Yeah, yeah. He lacked class, not like Luke Donald. Oh, Luke Donald's a class actor. Class actor. He won it after two hours, isn't he? To win a Ryder Cup at home and away. Should we get Luke Donald on here? Should we get Luke Donald on here? I'd love to get him. We ask him, can't we? Yeah, let's bring him on with. Who do you like him on with? The captain. The best Donald. But if he's the captain, the first thing you say, Rory, why don't you sign him autographs for them kids?

55:25Who? If he's a captain. Tell Rory to sign the autographs for the kids. Yeah, but Rory did sign autographs for the kids. He just... There was a couple of two kids. Maybe one. OK, next one. In years to come, someone's going to say, yeah, Rory, you didn't sign this for me. Now look at me, I'm a fucking snar. Hopefully. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. Is there any sport that you'd like to get rid of? Sport? Yeah. Golf? No. No. Sport, it's hard to say, doesn't it? Everyone's got a different passion for different sports. And not everybody's going to play the so-called best sport.

56:01Sport's for everybody. Sport is amazing. Yeah, find themselves. Are we refusing to answer that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, not answering that. Every sport, give a brother a chance. But if you had to pick one. music is there any band that everyone likes that you don't like I don't feel the Oasis vibe that everyone seems to be like going crazy for I saw a lovely band the night in Manchester Deacon Blue I was there beautiful wasn't it good no yeah Blue are great but like Oasis are great as well listen to the question what's the question again Gary is there any bands that everyone likes that you don't like I said everyone likes I don't feel it like you don't feel it I don't feel the Oasis vibe and it's nothing to do with United City I don't know about that see what I mean I can't take it seriously I'm serious Jesus it's a simple question can I answer you spoke for half an hour about Top of the Pops and I listened and I was polite I mentioned something in one of them moods that's what you said to me I went to the Wasties concert I wasn't sure what to expect in terms of I watched them like five, six times going back they were absolutely incredible can I answer the question everyone and I'm going but I don't feel them that's it I'm not begrudging you like you know read the question again fucking hell is there any band that everyone likes that you don't like I don't know that many bands I like Oasis to be fair who's the one Coldplay everyone goes to watch I've seen them do you like Coldplay who does everybody like you're not feeling Coldplay is he see yeah there we go I think they're really good it's funny because it's a bit fluffy for me I'm not sure R &B man is it because they support Spurs no it's not because they support Spurs I don't know he said that about Sydney but like now you say that yeah my missus goes crazy I'm not clean.

57:39I'm not clean. I'm not clean. I've just got words on these things. That's what normally happens. Food and drink. What does that mean? What am I doing here? Get rid of a food. I'm sorry. Now the running order is important, isn't it? Thank you, Shel. Thank you, everyone. Ben should be here. I've got a riff. It's because there's no running order. It's OK. What food and drink doesn't everyone like? What food and drink does everyone not like? Not like. OK. I don't like anchovies. Yeah. You don't like them? Anchovies. I hate anchovies. Are they the green things? The little fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are they little green capers?

58:10No. Olives. Olives, I don't like that. You don't like olives? No. I kind of like olives. You know what I don't like? I don't like sprouts. What do people like on toast? What's that? Nightmares with them when I was a kid. I don't like rhubarb. Rhubarb? Yeah. Rhubarb and cuss. I used to love that one as a kid. I don't like rhubarb at all. I tried it again the other day at a little pub lunch. And I said, let me try it. Maybe because I was younger, I just didn't like it. I fucking hate it. Oh, do you know what I don't like? And everyone's putting it on everything. Truffle. What? Truffle. It's expensive, truffle as well.

58:40Truffle. Truffle fries, truffle mash, truffle, everything. I don't want truffle anywhere near anything. If they overdo it, it can be an overpowering thing, but truffle's amazing. Why is it amazing? It just gives a nice flavour. It's a lovely taste in that, but if you put too much on, it can be very overpowering. I don't like, I've never had a coffee in me life. What? Yeah, I don't like coffee. I've never had a coffee. I'm not a coffee. Not a coffee drinker. Wow. Not a coffee drinker. None of you? Coffee? I've never had. Really not. I mean, I've had to try it, smelling it as a kid, and then everyone went coffee mad, didn't they, about 10, 15 years ago?

59:14I got jealous of that. I don't get it. I got jealous of it because there was so many on the market, but I just don't drink coffee. Oh, no. Not for me, that. Espresso's mine. If I smell espresso, it's so strong. That's strong, though. That's strong, right? Do you like the taste of it? Yeah, but you can't start on espresso, I don't think. I think you've got to start on something with a bit more milk in it that's a bit more sort of like... It's even like my favourite dessert, like tiramisu. I love them. And if it's got too much of that coffee... I don't like tiramisu. That's funny, that, isn't it?

59:38You don't like tiramisu? No. No. There was something on the news the other day. Actually, the more tea you drink, it's actually quite... It was obvious that drinking loads of tea was bad for you. I stopped drinking tea. No, but they actually said tea's actually quite good for you if you drink loads of tea. I don't know what to believe. You think it goes in cycles, what's good for you and what's bad for you? You just talk shit. You haven't got a clue. You talk politics. You know what I mean? I haven't got a clue. There was that woman who came on the news years ago and said, don't eat eggs. and everyone says eggs are the best thing you need what was her name Edwina Curry don't listen to her oh yeah that was Salmanello oh that was that was your major's mate wasn't it yeah your major's mate allegedly yeah this episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing er right travel what travel would you get rid of travel would you get rid of I love the train.

1:00:30Airports are a night. Airports are stressful. Yeah, I think airports. Them scooters. Them scooters zooming along the street. Do you know what I don't like about airports? I don't like the fact that, obviously, I get they have to obviously make sure security's right, but I used to think airports, like 15 years ago, was more of a hospitality experience. People would welcome your security. Everything now is very much they're looking at you in a very doubtful fashion. You're like, you've got to sort of like prove that you're not a criminal almost rather than, you know what I mean? Almost like you're going in and it's looking at you aggressively, I think.

1:00:59Maybe is that just me? No, no, it's stressful. I would say them scooters are really dangerous. They need to do more. They should be wearing helmets. The scooters? There should be something to do with insurance. Oh, to be fair. And bicycles going through red lights all the time. Yeah. I'm tired of them. God. They need to do more on cyclists to make them a little bit more, like, lawful in what they're doing. I love the train. I think the train's been number one, though. Yeah. What's the one TV programme that everyone loves but you don't get? Lost can you give us options Lost what's Lost that's exactly it it was this programme that everybody went crazy on and they were somewhere that they were lost and you know what else Prison Break I love Prison Break I love Prison Break yeah but is it Prison Break or not are they breaking out or not how can you have how many series is it it was about seven series I know but it was so good it went a bit far in the end I've never seen I've never seen one of them Lost or Prison Break bro you need to watch House of Guinness I've started watching that I am right I am right how many shows is it how many series is it 8 episodes of 40 minutes I've started watching that's not bad I could commit to that it's written by the guy that wrote Peaky Blinders have you watched Peaky Blinders do you know I'm not feeling that either no Peaky Blinders is unbelievable I've never seen Peaky Blinders I know it is but I've never seen one episode can I ask you how many episodes and series is there I think there's a few 5 or 6 yeah and how many series is there how many series of Peaky Blinders is there 5 there's 6 in it isn't there 5 or 6 and 2 movies it's too much of a commitment No, no, no.

1:02:26You can follow something. I like a movie. I like Closure. I like Closure after a hour and a half. I watched it the other day. You've got to watch, I said to you before on the plane, the new DiCaprio movie. Yeah, I'll definitely go. Another time? Titanic? No. No, the one now. I've heard good stuff about it. It's amazing. I'll watch it this week, definitely. I like a movie. What is it? Another time? I can't commit to a series. I watched it last week. We watch it tomorrow night, 7. No, but you have to watch House of Guinness because it's about basically the Guinness film. I was stunned at the history of it in terms of like no I might make an effort with that I have to say I think Peking Pugliese is one of the greats alongside Sopranos and Breaking Bad I've never found in Italy I want to give a good mention to Gamora what's that?

1:03:08Gamora was brilliant for Napoli Mafia Mafia in Napoli subtypes unbelievable you know what's really I've really enjoyed the subtypes because you really are engrossed because you're reading it you're right there with it you know sometimes you're just watching it and you kind of like lose it a bit when you're reading it you get everything Sopranos is my number one and I'd say Gamora's number two. Did you ever see that movie Righty done? What was it called again, Righty? The Kitchen. Hey. Have you watched it yet? No. Righty, bring us the top of the box. Oh, you didn't get an Oscar for that, to be honest.

1:03:37Bring us the Righty show on Friday and then your movie. We were all three. Righty, that was good. No, it was good. That was good. You know Daniel Kaluuya. You know Daniel Kaluuya. I'm serious, it was a good movie and Righty was brilliant, didn't it? Did you get it on YouTube? It's so intimidating, it was. Yeah, but it might not be on YouTube. Well, you've done a lot of stuff like that audio comfort zone right but the thing is Roy is that again like you mentioned earlier sometimes you've just got to try it like even when Daniel said listen we've got this part we think that you'll be really good for it we've got this DJ who's giving the news and I was thinking to myself you know something I'm so afraid of trying to learn those lines and in the end I had the most monologue and I would have to do it in different times and then you got him watching and then you got how did you start with the news was there a certain thing you said or something or was it just came on yeah to start with this is the Lord Kitchener live and direct from Kitchen Radio yeah do you think we could do do you think we could write a programme and put it on the overlap and do it as like a drama series like a no see I'm just I'm just sat here watching thinking why don't we just why don't we just do a programme why don't we do a programme what's what's get the guy who wrote House of Guinness and Peaky Blinders Stephen Knight Stephen Knight yeah he's probably not busy Stephen can you just write us a programme for an hour and then we'll do it and we'll do it I'd be killing the first scene wouldn't I I'd be killing him out it's honestly no it's acting how does it take that for an hour programme that'd take a long time a couple of weeks of filming yeah probably a couple of weeks we'd not commit to that if we had a programme draw it's tough so we're actors we're actors we're part of the no but it's like the office we know the camera's there can we do that where we can I don't know that'd be brilliant yeah that's the way to do it we need to bring someone talented in to do this if you're a proper actor you don't look at the camera you're not you don't look at the camera you're not supposed to you look past it we need a talented what's the famous Danny Boyle Danny Boyle or Stephen Knight we need to just like put a little bit of magic around it I don't know what's the plot what we doing we killing people what's happening I think there's probably going to be a bit of death

1:05:41he said what did you say on the plane today you can't watch something without a bit of hanky panky I know so we've got a bit of hanky panky I can't do that.

1:05:57That's a five... I've got to take a call. That's only a five-second shot. Swen.

1:06:07They get coaches in for that. Yeah, I think we should do... Think of the sort of line. It's like, think of how it works. The hook. What's the hook? It's got to be mystery. No way back. trying to find something out. Solving a murder. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. I love that. I love the thriller. Solving a murder and the clues. But not loads of series, just one blast. We just do two weeks for one hour and we do a... And then in the end it finishes like The Usual Suspects. Remember The Usual Suspects? Oh, the twist. So then in the end Gary's... Roy's walking like he's something wrong and then all of a sudden he walks along.

1:06:44That's who I'm walking. Oh, am I hip? Your hip's at it. Your hip's at it. You could do that. Did you get that in that movie? I'm not excited about this. You didn't call that night. You know what was really great about the usual suspense? It's when we found out how he did it. They showed us the ball afterwards and the fella looked in his soul. Yeah, dude, the boys. Honestly, I know it's all gone ticked up. I think that was one of the greatest twists ever. I think Kieran could be in this film, do you? Do you think Kieran could be in this film? What would they do? I think you'd be like the assistant to the bad man in it, whoever that is.

1:07:15What, like? Assistant to the regional manager.

1:07:22Anyway, just thinking there, Diego Maradona on Roy's shirt. If there was one football player, Manchester United are playing Liverpool on Sunday, let's imagine we're all going to go and watch that game. If there's one football player from history you could bring and put into that match, who would it be? For either team? No, just one player that you could put into the game. Let's say it's for United, just for... What player from history would you now just want to see live? I'd love to see, just for the period, I'd like to see Duncan Edwards or George Best. Right, yeah. Just purely to see George Best at his peak, play at Anfield and see...

1:07:58I'm actually getting goosebumps a little bit. Imagine that. You bring George Best back at like 23 years of age, absolute peak, and literally go and play against Kirkez at Anfield off the right side or on the left side. I'd probably go... That's a good shot, but I'd probably go Johan Cruyff. Johan Cruyff? Yeah, I'd really love Johan Cruyff. and even obviously Pele was massive in the black community but like when the Ironcrow came in 74 I didn't see anything Good question I like that question the idea of one of them Yeah one of them coming back like that Who would you have? Brilliant answers I'd throw Maradona Off the front for United Even again Roy I was watching his document just to start Everything about him was a footballer The way he walked his hair The shape of him He had a bit of nastiness Yeah I'm thinking a little I've just got to keep, obviously, you can just say, obviously, any player ever.

1:08:50But there's an account I follow on social media. He's a Liverpool fan. And what he does is he puts the clips of, say, like, Kenny, Hanson, Souness. You don't see. He puts, like, say, their 10-minute clips of games. And I saw one of Barnes against Man United in about 1989. At Old Trafford? No, it's at Anfield. What year, Jamie? Did you say that? It was about 89 I think and he took a game to Viv Anderson and it's just John Barnes' clips and I think of where Liverpool are now and could probably do with a world class left winger I'd say John Barnes just because I watched him a few days ago in this particular game and I think he said it was his best game for Liverpool Is that his prime?

1:09:35What year was his prime during the ban? He was 87 to about 90 he was the best player in Britain by a mile probably one of the best probably in the top five or six in your own. Was he still up in 1984? When did he get to... He went to Liverpool in 87. So Liverpool won the league in 87, 88. But then after that... It was great watching him. He was great. Proper player, man. Right, I forgot we had these questions on the back. Go on then. Gary, it's all right. We've done an hour, if you want to... Now, let's see the questions because what else are we going to do? It's beautiful. What is your favourite city in Europe?

1:10:12We're in Rome. Rome is not bad. This would be right up there, wasn't it? Rome's got to be up there, yeah. I like... I like the Scandinavian country. It sounds crazy. I'm going to say London, you know. In the summer? Honestly, if I... Do you not like Copenhagen or... Do you not like... No, look, to me, if you said your home city, it's outside your home city, but for me, I look at London and I go, I think, it's got everything. Why don't you move there? No, I wouldn't move there. I'd never move from Manchester, but... London's too big for me. London? If you go on a trip in Europe, you see what I was saying, basically?

1:10:44Yeah, where would you? Did you say favourite capital city? No, no, it just must be the favourite city in Europe. I think if I was going to trip with Nicola, I think I'd come here. Would you come here? Rome. Yeah. This is Nancy's favourite, but like the Malfi Coast, is that coming down? It's beautiful there. That's quite nice. There's a lot of history. I like Scandinavia, man. Nice and peaceful. OK, we're Manchester United, your Arsenal, your Liverpool. Which Italian player, past or present, would you love to see in your team today? Carlo Ross. questions you gave a warning on these questions I'll take Paolo Rossi mate if I could pick an Italian player from past our presence for United to go into United today he was the first one that came to me Mike Baggio but let me have a think I just went strikers Maldini fuck no you want some Joke said Maldini's amazing but you want something a bit more Baggio a bit more exciting Baggio in his prime look at the players we mentioned while they go for United are Liverpool attacking players isn't it they're the ones who excite you I'll take Paolo Rossi for Arsenal I'll take him I'll go with Baggio Baggio?

1:11:47Baggio just Swagger about him He's brilliant He had a beautiful swag And then we've got a question From our sponsor Arne Best football shirt You've received As a child Oh Receive Well I got mine Mine was West Ham I got a West Ham kit Were you a West Ham fan No my brother My older brother My older brother to me Was West Ham So the first kit we got Was West Ham Mine was United at 85 Mine was Everton 85 84, 85 you know what I was talking so that the Jamie the lad who takes me to the airport he's an Everton fan so we were talking this morning about sponsors yeah and we were talking about that Everton kit was it Haphnia?

1:12:28Haphnia he told me I didn't know what it was but I knew it was a Danish company he said it was spam seriously I knew it was a Danish company he said they did ham or spam like a bad ham or spam spam yeah but I just wanted it just yeah I was speaking about that this morning Hafnir that was a cool kit though because it was quite tight Leacock Sporty they used to do a few kits then didn't they Leacock yeah well that's the end of the Rome stick to football right it was a bit of a journey we got there eh we got there very good nice it's the ambience it's the place it's the ambience we never ate the food the hue was beautiful warm it's gorgeous that garlic bread looks good as well I was just thinking should I have a bit but it looked like is go to love.

1:13:19Thanks for listening and thanks to our partners Arm Clothing. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode.