Paul Scholes: Stepping Away From TV, Caring for his son & United Career | Stick to Football EP 100

0:00Just before we get started, a quick thanks to our partners and clothing. We hope you enjoy the show. How are we? How are you doing, Gary? Oh. Oh. Like it? Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Scalzi's nightmare. Scalzi. And there's Cara, made it. Cara's looking well. You're right, mate. Just calm down, yeah. Do you do Halloween, Kieran? Not really, no. I was glad they didn't make me dress up like they did for Father Christmas last year. Didn't fancy being a pumpkin. or anything. Nice. Would you do it? I don't do Halloween. No. Do you get anyone knocking at your door? Not really, no. Used to when I was younger.

0:45Do you reckon any of these? Do you reckon Roy does? Be brave. Yeah.

0:53Right.

1:00Do we like that? Do we like it?

1:06Wow. I think righty'll... He'll like this righty. Oh, right. Scolzy, you're here for... Come on, Scolzy. Scolzy's the guest on Stick to Football. Look at you crying. We're going to dig deep. You bullied me into this. I don't bullied you into it. I don't bully you into anything, you know that. You do bully me into everything. It's totally the opposite. No, I encourage you. Bully. Encourage. Am I in the right chair there? Yeah. You can either have Jill sat next to you there and we can leave Cara where he is. Cara. Oh, Jill. Wow. Oh. Yes, Jill. Jimmy's back. Hi, Jimmy. Yes, I am. He's looking well.

1:55Well. Well. That's the first time you've ever kissed Jamie. I know it is. Roy, do you like Halloween? Yeah, it's good for the kids, isn't it? I think I'd rather talk. Can you hear me talk? Yeah, that suits you. You know, when I see them masks, I always think of them parties in London they have, you know, dodgy houses. What are they? They'll leave their car keys on. Put this on. Have you been to one? No, not yet. No, he hosted it. He hosted it. Let's have a... Oh, boy! That's for a woman. That's a woman's thing. No, everything's just for everyone. Everything's unisex these days, right? Do I? We're all unisex.

2:39Can I look to that? Oh, yes. Roy, Gary just opened the door for us and then Roy just barged past us and walked through. I saw a gap and I went for a Jill. I'm like, my old days in midfield. Boom. Jill, do you want to sit here and move Jamie? I am. Do you want to sit here and move Jamie? Or do you want to sit at Scholes? Yeah, no, I think Scholes needs to, like... Do you know what? Why don't you put that next to Scholes? I know, I've said it before. That's like Ned before Overmars. You don't want to do it overmars. Fucking after. After Overmars. After Overmars. Yes, righty. Yeah. Oi. Have you got a spider on your face?

3:17Yeah. Wow. Did you see it? Yeah. I like that. I can't take you seriously. We've got a special cake as well. Oh. This is our 100th. Is it? Is it? It's our 100th show. Oh, my God. Congratulations to us. Thank you so much. I feel like a smile. Well done, everybody. Well done. They said it never last. It never last. I can't believe we've gone through 100 episodes. Why is it blue, Kieran? Why is it that colour blue? Football launches blue and overlaps blue. City, city, city. Oh, isn't that lovely? Oh, it's also Roy's birthday. What? What's she saying? Do you want some glasses? Happy birthday, Roy. Let me see.

4:08Where are some glasses there, Roy? Oh, you've got a spider. Oh, that's so cute. See my spider? Yeah, that's better. I like that, yeah. Should I get something? You like my spider, yeah? Oh, yes. Do you like what I've done there? I've got a black eye in that. Can you see it? Yeah. Yeah. I thought you were going to be racist. What are we doing? That's the question, weren't we? The media, are you? Yeah, no, I want you to do it, girl. For the 100th episode, we've got to say well done to the team. Yeah. Well done to the team. No, no, no, not just like that. Just say it properly. Like you, Ben. Thank you, everybody.

4:34Ben's clapping his eyes, Ben. There's so many people going to see you. Can you do one of your heartfelt speeches that you normally do? I don't know if I could do heartfelt just straight off the bat, but what I would like to say to everybody in the background here, stick to football, is thank you for everything that you do every week. You know, everybody's always so accommodating. You know, when we have to go up, when we all have to fly off somewhere, everybody's so good. When you're left. I'm not late I'm not late so I'd like to thank everybody for that everybody obviously Ben and Kieran don't mention all the names Scotty, everybody Adam but like thank you to everybody man because like people see us doing our stuff here and you know what I mean it's great fun they make it very easy for us to do it so well said thank you so much well done by you thank you to the people who come and watch thanks was that from the hat?

5:24that was lovely yeah it's always better when it comes out you're good at speeches I don't think I am I don't think I am. Thanks, Lels.

5:36When you get into an area, there might be loads of bodies around you, but for some reason, your head just goes into slow motion. Yes, it's unbelievable. That never happened for me. No, I know, yeah. You share bits of your week on social media, don't you? A lot of people say, God, that helps us. We've got a kid who's just the same. That's what I just carry on doing. I couldn't believe people didn't go and man-mark you. We did at times. I just used to get obsessed with you. So you could take him everywhere. Come on. It's like walking your dog. First started warming up and David Platt was there. He said, what the f*** are you doing?

6:09That's what I thought. He was like, what the f*** am I doing? I remember coming to see me that morning. He said, I'm done. And he went and told Sven then. Like Maranakis. Is he? They tried to bring you back though, didn't they? I just didn't think it was the right thing to do. Jamie Carragher came back actually. He did, right? Yeah, Jamie. that's why he's like that now

6:35right so our guest get this out the fucking way guys Scolz is the guest on Halloween lovely I've been roped into this right I'm bust how much notice did you get I want some sleep an hour that's the best notice isn't it yeah If you don't know the team and the manager tells you no before, you don't know what I mean. Just get on with the game. I prefer that. If I asked him two weeks ago, you said no. Definitely. You have to get Scoles. He's a team player, isn't he? He's a team player. Would you like a piece of cake? Yeah. It's a sponge cake. It's got to be sponge. Is sponge your favourite? Victoria's sponge, yeah.

7:16Do yous like Halloween? Is Halloween a big tradition when you were younger? Yeah. I used to always go trick-or-treating round the big houses. Is it more, yeah, to get the best sweets. Is it more an American thing? I think so. Gary, let me move the cake like this. Good point, that. That's all right, Gary. Do you get dressed up? No. You've got grandkids and stuff. Do you know what about it? I quite like it. You know what I do, like, with the houses, because we have a big one where we are, they do the road up and everything. Yeah, the street and firework. And I like, it's nice to be able to put, like, it's funny because I had one of these ones.

7:51but like I've got one of these but this is red and it's I've got a big black coat and that and I used to just wait around that's a big piece of I used to wait around the back because you know when the kids come and they come with their little bag and everything and then they knock the door and I come around the back and they I'm scared of them honestly it's hilarious I love that it's so funny there you go I just turned all the lights off you're going to sharpen the knife do you not answer oh my god I don't think fireworks are fighting me darling It's fine, it's fine. Yeah, but then you like the...

8:23Chocolate cake. In Italy, I heard that you were loving the fireworks. Jill, where's your plate? What's going on there? I was good in Rome, actually. I didn't mind. Yeah, but there was no... That was... The hotel was kind of in the middle. No, it wasn't. Girl, don't take it out until we get another plate. Is it because of your dog you don't like fireworks? This is the thing you lift it up. We've got a good balancing, girl. Did you have somebody on in Rome? Steady. What's going on there? Yeah. One sec, girl. You're doing really well. It's nice to see that you're supporting the podcast Here we go I've been listening to yours, it's good Oh yeah, Scorsi's got his own one Paddy's great, isn't he?

8:58You want loan? Is this a loan deal? We've got Scorsi from his podcast I want a big one Are you enjoying it? I want all of it Did you have Brucie on? Is he alright, Brucie? I told you he might be the Salford match He came to the week He went to the sister He came to the week's goal wasn't he against Swindon I haven't seen him no Yeah he was at the Swindon game Was I Were you there Swindon Yeah Yeah he was there Was he He sat down yeah Was it that box What about everybody else Steve Bruce Yeah He was at the Swindon game He wasn't In that box where all the owners were there All the Americans What was the week before Tramia Yeah not Swindon Yeah yeah Just about my one I had to go over to centre-halves Good point HMRC Was he at Swindon Were you at the Tramia game then?

9:48Oh, no. No way. Yeah, so he was at the Tramia game, yeah. Yeah. Do you go all the way for a game? I have done lately, yeah. Yeah. Alder had a good crowd, didn't he, behind the goal? They always do. My wife and her really good. This is in the fridge. Right, Scolsy, we're going to start with Mythbusters. OK. First question. To be fair, there's only three. There's not many myths. It's not too long, haven't I? There's not many myths about you. Is it true Nicky Butt used to call you the ghost? No. The ghost? No. Yeah, but you might not know. Is that just a Halloween one? No, it's after a game, he'd turn around and you'd be gone.

10:29All right. Well, he's probably right with that about that. Yeah, he did. I don't remember to call him the ghost. Yeah, but if you were gone, he wouldn't have heard it. I thought he was talking about ghosting into the box. Do you know what I mean? No. Scolzi, you know what we used to hear? I meant ghosting into the box. You know what we used to hear a lot about you when you used to read about Scolzi that you used to and this is brilliant I can ask if it's true or not did you used to play the games and not go into the lounge just go straight home um yeah most of the time never went into the lounge yeah I'd have gone into the odd time not very well it depends if I had somebody at the game which is never is the lounge somewhere where you say oh I've got to go in the lounge like somewhere where you'd be in the lounge wouldn't you sometimes yeah when we first started people used to go in for a couple of pints yeah yeah yeah but that stopped really didn't it no we never Never went in a weight lounge or probably the home one as well.

11:16Do you not get fined, though, if you don't go in? I think people get fined now if they don't go in. No, I had a players lounge. No, we didn't get a part of it. Would depend on the result of how you played. It was... Our lounge was tiny as well, wasn't it? It was packed when it couldn't move. Roy used to give tickets away. 25 Irish and 14 brothers. And when I left, they missed it. They paid for the bar. And they missed it. You see, don't be knocking the Irish. They paid for the bar. They brought atmosphere, a bit of crack. I mean, crack.

11:49It's that kind of... Everyone loved the Irish, I'm telling you. Proper atmosphere, family. Right, the second myth, it's for us to debate this, whether you think it's true or not, and I just can't believe this is true, but is it true that Scholes are used to having his contract at United that he didn't have to do any media? I can't believe that would be absolutely true. I don't think they had right to have it. I think it's standard you have to do, like... It's written in your contract. You have to do, like, media or, like, charity work, don't you? You have to give it a certain few hours every week.

12:19Not that everyone does it. So I'd be amazed. I think the question would have been more, would Scolzi want that in his contract? Probably I'd say yes, he would. He'd want that. Would he have to do no media, wouldn't he? No, but you don't understand a contract. It's in your contract to do, like... Yeah, to do obligations. Yeah. So is that a myth? Yeah, it's a myth, yeah. Is it a myth? I don't remember you doing many, Scolzi. I only did what I had to do so it was when MU TV came in wasn't it yeah I'd never if someone rang me and asked me to do an interview I'd always say no yeah but I only did the ones that I had to do which were MU TV or remember the magazine we had to do once a month once a month once a month too many was that part of the thing with England that maybe you didn't like the media side because it was a massive feroz with England wasn't it erm what do you mean doing interviews with England was that part of obviously you retired but did that play on your mind the media side of it in terms of the scrutiny with England in tournaments and the media you had to do did you have to do with England like Des was saying here not long ago you didn't do any of it yeah we did we had to set turns each we had to go to the tent then we were in the press conference I didn't know I hated it and yeah there was a lot of scrutiny on us, weren't they?

13:37But I weren't that. I get it, I try to not let it bother me. I get it that nobody wants to do it, but would you hate it? No one puts their hand and goes, I'll do an interview, but when you do it then... No, you didn't like it, did you? Like you proper hated it, right? Do you like doing the media now, though, the games? No. No? Do you not? Are you laughing at it? No. No, because you hated it, but then you've like gone into it. Yeah, no, I don't like it, no. No, you just do it. That's why you only does six games a week. I don't do any games. I've stopped doing games. I don't do any. Do you enjoy the podcast?

14:10Yeah, I do. Just chatting about football? Chatting about football, yeah, it's easy. I don't know why, it seems easy when it's been like two days before you talk about it or something, do you know what I mean? So you're not as reactive, I suppose, if you calm down a little bit. Do you not do games anymore, Scolesy? No. Have you stopped doing it? Yeah. Are you European games running up? No. You did Champions League, didn't you, with Kaz quite a bit last season? Yeah, I did last year. I just made a decision this year because of Aidan. Obviously, special needs and stuff that you'll probably know about.

14:40All the work I do now is just around his routines because he has quite a strict routine every single day, so I just decided everything I'm going to do is around Aidan. I think people don't realise the punditry, sorry, that you do travel a bit, don't you? If you're travelling up and down to London, you're away for one or two years. Well, a lot of the stuff I was doing in the studio as well, I should be in the Manchester City in London all the time. Right. You might not want to talk about this, but your routine that you follow, Drew, because if I say to you sometimes about a meeting, say, on a certain day, you say, no, that's absolutely, I can't do it that day.

15:11What is your routine a week that you follow around, Aidan?

15:17Well, me and Claire, obviously, are not together anymore, so we're having three nights each, and Claire's mum has him on a Friday night, but we'll always do the same things with him. Right. And he doesn't understand, he won't know what day of the week it is. He won't know what time it is, but he'll know from what we're doing what day it is. So I pick him up every Tuesday from his daycare place that he goes to for four hours. And we go swimming. He loves swimming. He loves it, yeah. Loves it. So we're going to Pearl for two hours. We'll go home, have his pizza on the way home. So that he knows every single day something different.

15:54Thursday, I'll pick him up. We'll go for something to eat, then go home. On a Sunday, I'll pick him up from Clare's house. We'll go to Tesco. he buys a trolley full of chocolate. So he doesn't know what a day is, he doesn't know what a time is. He only knows from what we're doing. How old is he? 21 in December. I think, obviously, it's a lot of, like... I can't remember. That did actually scare us, to be fair. But, obviously, you share bits of your week on social media, don't you? I think I always comment on your videos and stuff, but is that important for you to, like, is there a reason, like raising awareness or...?

16:35Do you know, I started doing that. He's obviously non-verbal. Well, can't speak. When I say he can't speak, I think he understands a lot more than we think. If you say something to him, he will understand it. And he has, like, sounds, but it's only, like, people who are close to him will know what he's saying. What's it called? Autism. Or just autism? But it's like a really severe... This is autism where you can go to school normally and all that kind of stuff. I didn't think we were going down this road, by the way. Do you know what I mean? No, yeah. I did it one or two times, and I only showed the good bits of it, which are some bits that aren't great.

17:13And it was just the response he had from people, you know, parents with the same trouble, the amount of people saying, God, that helps us, we've got a kid who's just the same or something like that. So that's what I just carried on doing. That's nice to have a bit of normality as well, Yeah, to do stuff that all the kids are doing. Do people ask you about it? Do they get in touch with you and say, you know, like, what do you do? Yeah, all the time. Do you make it really public that you don't mind speaking about it? No, do you? No, and I will reply to people on Instagram, it is a bit well. Because it's kind of hard.

17:48Do you know what I mean? Especially when they're young, because there's the harm and there's the attacking people. And I only put the nice stuff on. there's so many things that I do sometimes think about putting this off on where he's not too happy when he might go, he might try and bite he might scratch it, I do think about it but then I think, is that probably not the right thing to do I used to sit next to you in the dressing room didn't I and I remember there were times towards the end you'd come in and you'd have scratches all over your face and you'd sort of smirking there but you would be and I'd say, everything alright you'd say yeah and you might be, a haircut or it was something that basically...

18:25He used to bite your arm and stuff and scratch you just because... And it was simply frustration for him because he just didn't understand things. Couldn't tell you how he was feeling. Would the football give you a break from that? When you played, is it something that... No, you never got a break from it. Right. No. It was very hard in them days. In them days, I suppose it was years ago. So I don't think they diagnosed it until they were like two and a half. Right. But you knew there was something wrong, but you just don't know. I suppose when you get to the diagnosis of autism and you'd never heard of it, but then all of a sudden you start seeing everything.

19:08I don't know if it's just subconsciously that happens or what, I don't know. But no, you never get... I remember being told about it the first time. I think we played Derby away. I just didn't want to be there. I remember the man had to drop me the week after actually and I hadn't told anybody I ended up telling him a few weeks later I think it was quite hard and he he left me out I'm just leaving you now because you weren't very good last week and I just didn't want to be there we didn't really know what was in store for us some kids who don't speak at one and a half, two years of age all of a sudden you get to five or six bangly speaking, everything's right call it like a late development thing.

19:50But we just knew that it was never going to be like that. When you were at United, was there anyone that you did speak to or were you kind of the kind of character that would keep things to yourself? No, I don't think so. I didn't speak to anybody, I don't think. I think, to be fair, you kept everything to yourself, didn't you? It's very difficult to get inside. No, just generally, forget what you're talking about now, but generally you're very private. No-one really knows what Paul's... We didn't really know what you were doing away from me, obviously we go out with you at times, but I think even you'll know, Roy, from playing with schools, everything you kept to yourself, didn't you, in your life, that's the way you are.

20:25Yeah, and I would do now, really, unless somebody asked me about something, then I would never like, you don't want any sympathy or anything, do you know what I mean? That's why dressing rooms are strange, different dynamics, people are going through different challenges, and you just, you are expected to turn up. And you never know what's going on. Of course, nobody knows, unless sometimes obviously the manager might know, but the other players might be going there, and you do, you get dragged along, a little bit in a good way but all the time you're thinking it'd be nice to bounce something off somebody that you might be going through but unfortunately a top level sport there is an element of like I was never lying I even thought if I did speak to somebody it's not going to help me do you know what I mean it'd have helped you it'd have helped you I don't know it would I don't know what it'd help me the big concern obviously now because you're getting a bit older 50 years of age he's 20 what happens when you're not here that's the thing that's on my mind now all the time don't look that far ahead Scorsi man day at a time serious we all look too far ahead yeah but we're talking I know I know scenario I know but it's the same principles if I hadn't been talking about it I wouldn't have thought about it but there are certain times of the week where fucking hell just hits you yeah well it's nice to share that Scorsi my friend yeah you came on air you actually came on air last season and I think there was a question wasn't I remember it was like what's the hardest thing what's your yeah and you didn't obviously you didn't I was thinking it at the time and I thought you didn't speak about it and then later on that day you went home and you posted it on Instagram.

21:54What did I say on the programme? You said something like, I got asked a question earlier. No, I mean, what did I actually say on the programme? On the programme you said something different. You sort of, you went away and named a football thing but actually later on that day I always remember you getting home. And obviously I would never say, you just mention it and that's why I asked it. So I mean there's times when it's not in your head. It's like anything, isn't it? And there are times like now when you do start speaking about it, then it's at the front of your mind, isn't it? Is there any relief from it?

22:27Look, don't get me right, it can be so happy, it's untrue, and give you great pleasure and joy. Look, there are times, of course there are, but it's not all bad, you know what I mean? It's like there was a time last year, I took him away actually and he kept like just feeling his mouth like that and not sleeping and what's wrong with him no idea what's wrong with him and he kept doing it and doing it he was putting like gel on his lips like a numbing gel thing because he can't tell you what's wrong he can't tell you if he's got any pain anywhere and he won't go to a dentist so he won't sit there and have somebody open your mouth you just can't do it we ended up we got him to a special needs dentist and I think the moment they gassed him so they had to have a look through that way and honestly he had fillings his mouth was an absolute mess so we had to take him for an operation and obviously they gassed him to send him to sleep and he hasn't got a clue what's going on it's horrible, it's anymix he can't tell you the pain he's in but you just knew and that must have been going on for about 8 or 9 months imagine having a toothache for 9 months God.

23:42Not been able to say anything. So he went in to have the operation. We thought there were only two fillings and we just said to him, do everything. Everything you find, do it. I think she even trimmed his hair for him as well. Honestly, just give him a little number two on the back and sides. Did everything. Cut his fingernails, cut his toenails. He ended up having seven teeth out. What was it like when he was... He'd come round, he didn't know what was fucking wrong. I've had pictures of him. He's got blood all over his mouth. He's fucking dazed. and what the fuck's going on, honestly. I know.

24:13I love watching your videos, the holidays, when you take them to the trampoline park and everything. Did you see the trampoline one? Yeah, it was, yeah. Lay down for an hour. He lay down for an hour. He's quite a big lad now because he loves his food. Right. And people, that's another thing on Instagram, people commentate, I think you need to just watch his diet. He's got his foot right off. He's eating what he wants. Yeah. That's his one real pleasure, do you know what I mean? He loves food. Yeah. He'll tuck you to the trampoline place. He'll have a nice bounce round it. it might be a bit of exercise for him.

24:41He'd just lay on the trampoline like that and his top up scratching his belly. He looked in his element, though. I think he was... He loved it, but I don't care. I'm not forcing him to do anything I don't want to do. No. Nice. So going back to where this started, so now you won't do any games anymore, but you're happy to... See, everything you do is within half an hour of home and you basically make sure you can get back... Everything around his day, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the podcast is on a Monday, 11 to 1, so I drop him off half past ten on a Monday morning every week and I'm there 11 done at 1 can do the Salford stuff easy through the day so everything I'm going to do now it just works around because although I don't know what days what if I had to say I was doing a Thursday night game for United in Europa League that's the night I normally have him so he was just getting all agitated and biting and scratching so he spots the patterns that aren't there he knows the patterns there straight away and I did that for years really always thinking I've got to stop this at some point I've got to stop this at some point so I just said this year I had the chance of doing the podcast and I thought that'll suit me more the Salford stuff suits me more this every now and again suits me more so it's not suits me it suits Aidan yeah this episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing you said the Salford stuff obviously because I know what you're doing but people might not know what you're doing with Salford in terms of the Salford stuff.

26:09You're obviously quite involved now, aren't you? You enjoy that as well? Yeah. Yeah, I do. What's your role there, Scorsese? Have you got a job title? Have I got a job title? I don't know. I don't really know. I was asking if you were coaching, wasn't I, just before? Yeah, no, I'm not coaching. No, but recruitment? Just overseeing a lot of stuff? You were doing recruitment for a long time. It was mainly recruitment, yeah. We have a head of recruitment, but I was probably just going in at the end of it, going to watch players that were interesting and then speaking to them on the phone, trying to sign them trying to get lads to come to us trying to persuade them to come to us and just a little bit more now because obviously Ryan and Nicky aren't there I go to the training ground with them speak with the manager and stuff Do you like that?

26:53Nice going out to the training ground Yeah, it'd be interesting I'm watching the trainer I love it It was interesting what you were saying earlier that the midfielders will come up to you and ask certain things because, God, if you've got you there for a midfielder, like, I'm not just bigging you up, but one of the best midfielders ever to play the game. Thank you, Gill. How good? No, but how good is that for a young man? Brilliant. We were talking about this recently, but players almost, ex-players going in and chatting to people, particularly in the position they played, priceless. It didn't happen.

27:25It doesn't happen often, but it was only the other day, you know, Callum Cease came to me. He said, I need you to tell me how to score goals. Yeah. It's hard to tell you how to score goals. we ended up going through his clips with him yesterday actually and he's only a young lad he's done really well but it's brave of the player to come and see you because sometimes players don't think that's cool they go I don't want to be seen he's doing really well that's what I think but I loved it that he came in fact he came to me and said that I thought he was brilliant so I went through his clips with him yesterday I don't think you could well you're no more than that I don't think you could teach someone how to score goals oh but you might have with the timing you give advice the timing I think the big I don't need to go into it with Callum but the big thing with him is just slowing down a little bit he gets some great positions every week and then just freezes a little bit but you try and tell him just calm yourself I remember Dennis Burkham said something ages ago about going cold yes he was the first person I heard saying that and as soon as he said it instantly instantly instantly got it because there is a time when you're scoring a goal when you're about to have the shot and you're doing it there's something happens that it feels mad you can't explain it I can't explain it but you understand what I'm saying It feels like, but then the good players, the greats, they have that naturally where it just slows down.

28:41To try and slow, for a player who doesn't do that, to slow himself down, it's difficult. But it's great when a player can say that too, like a bird camp, a top player, and sometimes it's the word and sometimes your brain's just ready for that information. You go, he'll simplify it, you go, yeah, I get it. No, doing it is another challenge. You're not slowing your legs down, you're slowing your mind down. I think it's almost like you get into an area and there might be loads of bodies around you, but for some reason your head just goes into slow motion. Yes, it's unbelievable. That never happened for me.

29:13No, I know, yeah. My body did it as well. No, but it does, and sometimes it doesn't, and you feel all mudded up and you don't score. But sometimes everything just slows down slow. You can see a part of the goal you're going for. You can see the goalkeeper. You can see everything around you. I used to get that after 15 pints. slow motion you know what I say with that where you say you see your clarity people ask me I scored a goal against Swindon and beat them three now at a time and I scored it from way out and in a moment I just saw a flash of the goal I just saw it and it was like as plain as looking at that there and then I just done it and it went in there and people say what did you see I said I don't know I just saw something there and that's what happens I think what I tried to take that when I went to finish then is the first thing what's your first like your game from goal the first thing you think about how I'm going to finish is how you should finish yeah I always think that always the first decision is always the right one yeah the first decision and the forwards and the midfielders whoever it is who stick to that normally score because it's normally the first decision is the right one yeah everyone's scored in Swindon he could have said Madrid or something that's why I said how do you teach somebody that I don't think I'm not sure you can help him and guide him yeah you can help and guide him of course you can it's like Rory McIlroy saying teach me how to smack it 350 yards he couldn't tell you but Skolls is it not I have no idea how to teach someone how to score goals I have no idea what it's like to go and score goals but is it a case of repetition in training practice yeah and practice so literally that's another thing I said to him yeah so literally after training almost the same type of because he gets in that same channel and it's a case of right you've got to do 30 every day or 40 every day then you're doing 200 a week then you're 800 a month and you're doing 9 ,000 10 ,000 is it that feeling of I've been there before I know what I'm doing is it that for a goal score because I always thought it was like repetition if I see Harry Kane or Thierry Henry or you and you even I knew your goals I think you can do it in training I think shooting afterwards isn't always the biggest help because you haven't got the people around you it's not real in some ways do you know what I mean what age is this kid 23 I think you've seen him right he's the boy who runs forward doing really well he's been brilliant for us he scored a really good goal against Stockport but that's what he's capable of he's getting into so many areas the last bit is just a little bit at least he's getting into it that's what I said to him I said I'd be more concerned if he wasn't getting in them areas as long as you keep having the courage to get there and keep doing it eventually he could score 10-15 goals you know the thing is as well with him he's got to look at videos and watch the greats who crash into the box and how they finish once they get there.

32:00You can look at that and copy that. These two were both good at it, but they obviously, to be fair, went further back, didn't you, as your careers went on, you played deeper. But Frank Lampard was probably the most prolific in terms of that run. You've got to mention play. You know, you give them players credit. I remember we were working with Ireland, I was working with a player, Jeff Hendricks' name was, obviously, he had a good career, was at Burnham. I'm watching him and at halftime I said, you're not making enough runs. I remember him saying, I made four or five runs and I never got picked out.

32:27and I was looking I'm going because people have to remind us Gerrard's a good example Scholes see Lamper they might make 20 as if they kind of give up after I've got in there four or five times I'm not getting a goal you have to keep getting in there the one you don't go is the time that lands there keep getting in there it's like a striker you know when you're not scoring you've got to keep doing this it's because you can't think there's a number on how many I do until I stop you just go because when you the big problem the big problem comes when you stop doing it as soon as you stop doing it then you're a waste of time keep getting and eventually you will do when I was a young player as you said guys I was always going forward but when you're doing that in that position you've got to know what's behind you you've got to be really secure with what's behind you you've got to know look if I get there because I wasn't an athlete as you know so getting back might be a problem for me but as long as everything was securing behind me it gives you so much confidence I think a Lampard with someone like Makaleli behind him he almost said fuck yeah Defending?

33:27Fuck it, I'm just going to win the game. I'm going to get a forward on it. If you've got someone behind, though, I used to be shouting, like, you go, you go, like, I've got it type thing. I think if you hear that, you're just like, right, I can go. Frank did have McAlealy and Essien, who was a powerhouse, getting back. To be fair to you two, you were playing in midfield as a two. Which meant, if you left Roy on his own. Those old-fashioned days, one goal, one stay. And Roy would cover a lot of ground. Oh, Roy'd go everywhere. Literally, you wouldn't be everywhere. Everywhere, yeah. But the pair of you, just looking at that, You talk about being cold as a finisher, as a midfield player, relating it to Callum at Salford.

33:59But when you received the ball in midfield, like deep, high, everywhere, you were just cold. Where did that picture of knowing where you are come from? Where's that come from in terms of... Because I played with you at 14 years of age at Boundary Park. You were playing up front at that point. Centre forward. Centre forward. So my journey... And that helps with your goal scoring. Yes. The journey of Scholes, he was a centre forward. He then played a few games at left-back and stupid positions for the youth team. Overlapping? I just used to get it and smash it. That's a great example for players to try different positions.

34:34Do you know what I loved playing left-back? It was for Nobby Stiles in the B team. He never played central midfield, I don't think, hardly at any time up to 17 years of age. I played with him from 14, 15, 16. I probably didn't play central midfield until I played on the first team. do you go and play Eric always said I would be a central midfield player I thought never in a million years just because I didn't have stamina energy for it yeah you think of them coaches you've just mentioned they would have experienced they would have seen it all before so they're trying different positions but ultimately they'd be chatting amongst themselves over a couple of days going we see him here Eric used to say that when I was 15, 16 you will eventually be a central midfield player but I never played there for him but Roger it sounds crazy if you said that Scholes was going to be a central midfield player to me as a young kid playing with him right you weren't quick no right he had asthma I was quick over two years you had asthma you had asthma as well yeah you had asthma so all I remember Scholes you know because he ran he's got a vent a disc and everything yeah because his stamina wasn't remember the disc on the running on the running if we did 12 minute runs or if we did any runs Scholes was at the back so you're thinking midfield play in the modern game in the 90s you're thinking they've got to be box to box they've got to be physical they've got to be able to run well sorry but again we're all guilty of it you end up focusing on what he can't do yeah so the same listen he can play the game I had to be good at something else we thought you'd be number 10 I had to be number 10 what was that I don't mean sport no that's a great example of talking about people playing sport you talk constantly about players what they can't do it was then the thinking he's going to be number 10 he's going to be like in that pocket in that hole number 10 was a position yeah but he's brilliant obviously football intelligence clever no one to drift in we're known to run I went, well, I won't be able to get back.

36:19I won't make that run today. With the assignment, did you ever think, I'm never going to be able to do it because I can't even breathe. I used to miss matches because I used to be so anxious the night before and then I'd bring an attack on. And I thought, I'm never going to make it. I remember when I got to Palace and then I was running, I remember the first session I had with them, they was running around the pitch. And you know, that's not a long run. That's not a lot of run. And I remember by the time we started on the halfway line, by the time we got around to that halfway line, I was still at the corner.

36:49I was saying, they're going to let me go soon. I couldn't stay with you. I think I was just unfit. I don't think you had asthma. You just wanted one of them bent. I used to get asthma. I'll get one of these. Everyone will think I'm just fucking... I used to buy them from Boots. No, I had the proper test. I had the proper test. But you know, later on, we had to go and do a test. Yeah, we had a test. The blowing test. Yeah, isn't that hard to blow for... so long no no no it's horrible you tell me I can't tell you you can't say but you know it is you get a score as soon as you started that line you're like you're right about being unfit because no word of a lie I didn't drink right from 16 to like 18, 19 but Scoles it and Riser then he became a big drinker oh yeah Scoles it and Riser you'd get on the bus on a Friday day before a game wouldn't you on a before an 18 game on a Saturday you'd go and have a few pints wouldn't you I'd have a Sunday how old was you 16, 17 17 18 you're joking it's closing drinking day before a game yeah not always it's just the odd Friday afternoon you and Dez have been great together you and Dez Walker Dez on a tour you and a Friday we used to go to a pub in Middleton what would you have like three or four pints we used to have some There were bottles, weren't there?

38:18Bottles of Bex or something. But yeah, we used to have a few. Do you know what I know? I was just brought up around that. That was my life. My mum and dad were in the pub Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And I was with them half the time, do you know what I mean? As a kid, no, they used to tell me. Of course. Way outside kicking the ball. That was like a treat, wasn't it, yeah? Yeah, he was like way outside kicking the ball. And you used to have to go in the pub. Me somehow, I didn't know. Don't mean they're going home. I'm staying outside for a few hours. Was he drinking outside, no? No, I wasn't drinking.

38:44I'm talking about when I was a kid. But you would do when you were a player, wouldn't you? Well, that's the way I was brought up, yeah. Which I thought was normal. Talk to us about your mum and dad, because obviously you had the most, I think, private life. Talk to us about your mum and dad and the influence they had on you when you were younger in terms of how they supported you and stuff. I watched my dad play football all the time, every week. Was he good? When you were younger? Centre forward. He just played amateur football, Sunday morning football, Saturday afternoon, Sunday morning. And like I said, that was the lifestyle I grew up around.

39:12So on a Saturday afternoon, he'd go and play. Go to the pub, have a drink with his mates. It just happens. What kind of player was he? Centre forward goal hanger. Was he a goal hanger? Like you. Was he a good finisher as well? Brilliant finisher. He scored loads and loads and loads of goals. Did they get paid at that level? Amateur, they don't get paid right at all. I think a few lads on a Sunday morning... Get a few bob, yeah. Did get a few bob. If they played semi-pro on a Saturday afternoon. There was a few of them. I didn't know your dad played football. Yeah, I was obsessed with watching my dad play football.

39:42Wow. Went everywhere he went. you obviously spoke a lot together when your team did all these things even if he went five a side on a Tuesday can I come can I come have you ever tried to speak to Scolzi he went through he went through wanting to try he sat next to him for 10 years 15 years Scolzi him scoring goals was that made you like I'm going to be a centre forward I want to score goals probably yeah and he was tiny as well do you see a bit of yourself in terms of style there must be a little bit a little bit when I was a centre forward yeah he was just the finisher just scored goals all the time What was your debut game?

40:15Don't tell me. Was it a League Cup game? Or was it Portfield? Yeah. Scored in centre-forward. You scored, yeah. Scored too. Yeah. Oh, wow. Was one of them ahead of you? One of them ahead of you. Yeah, I remember that. You weren't playing, were you? I think he did, you know. You were playing. Yeah, there's only a few, weren't there? It was the first time. I'm sure I did. Remember when we talked about resting on the team? So you must have been there. I definitely remember it. So what I was there on. David May. Yeah. Yeah, Portfield. So you go into midfield and you're playing central midfield for United.

40:40and to be fair there's no secret I think you two are the best midfield players that I ever saw what's that like you say you're never going to be a midfield player you're a centre forward what's that like when you first start playing central midfield for United and you're playing alongside Roy I know Nicky played a lot as well so I always think I don't really remember how it happened that much do you I think people love like a little story about stuff the other thing we must have trained together for two years or something great relationship we never spoke to each other I can imagine them not speaking to each other.

41:12Obviously, you've got to... We must. During the game, it's crazy. During the game, yeah, of course we did. It's crazy to be shouting at me all the time. Yeah, right. Did you shout in a game? You know when you used to play? There were certain players on the team. I was like, shut the... It was like having a manager next to you. But not in a negative way. Obviously, there's a perception of having a goal. I'll be like, come back in, are we done? Yeah, there was the well done, of course. It was also. So if you didn't pass it to him or you'd give it away, fuck, you know. You're getting told. That just wasn't a Saturday.

41:45That was every day in training. Yeah. So you knew what was coming on game day. Yeah, and it gave you that edge, I think. Yeah. Were you a talker or were you quite just... No. I can tell you... I quite like to talk a little bit on the pitch. Yeah. Not massively off it. I can tell you what he was, Jill. I can tell you what he was. It was a case with Scolese where he would get frustrated or he'd give you a little look. Let's say the keeper got the ball. Let's say we were defending. Yeah. Keeper got the ball and I didn't go and split to go and get on the ball. Get some space around. He'd look at you then and say, you know what I mean?

42:16He'd be like a look. He'd say, stop hiding. Yeah, fucking Gary sprinting up the pitch. You know what I mean? He'd be that look, he'd be that, get fucking wide, you know what I mean? I think it came from Eric. Eric was always about awareness, Eric, wasn't it? Yeah, look over your shoulder. And having a picture of it and I think I just became obsessed with that. You had that score. Did you have that naturally? That's what I was going to say about it. I don't think it was natural, no. No, but it was definitely one of your biggest strengths. Yeah. Especially as a midfield player, you need to know where people are on the pitch, you know what I mean?

42:47Did you have that right? Did you naturally? Yeah, of course. You can't play semi-field if you don't have that. Yeah, but I think it's harder when you're going a bit more, when you've got a goal in you and you're further up the pitch. For me, it's maybe slightly easier, but scores you're getting in tight areas, I think you definitely have to have more about you in terms of when to knock it back, when to spin it, whatever it might be. Obviously, I think that was one of your biggest strengths, Scorsese yeah it helps playing a good player as well it does help and also when you got into it the biggest thing was playing with brilliant centre forwards it did help brilliant centre forwards brilliant wide players fucking hell and I think towards the end I think people always underestimated Scorsese but you know in Scorsese you used to get in an attacking position you were crossing them there but people would still look at Scorsese and go it'd still be an element of people looking at Scorsese going don't worry about him a little bit because obviously you want 6 foot 4 or whatever and you would just drift in loads of goals you're just stood between two big centre halves and what you could do then obviously you'd get in there you could finish do you know what I couldn't understand Roy it was more when you left really and towards the end of your career and how much you used to because obviously you got to the point where you were dictating play a lot more I think when to be fair you were playing with Roy Roy dictated play a lot in terms of his passing but you and you freed yourself well our roles were different yeah but then I think when you obviously then sort of when Roy left you sort of went deeper and sort of sat there a little bit I couldn't believe people didn't go and man mark you you did at times there was a couple I remember a couple but even with yourself I used to enjoy that bit I used to like that you like the man mark you just used to get obsessed with you so you could take him everywhere come on it's like walking your dog I don't know I suppose you never happened to me go on man mark me even when we were playing when you were there if you think about it now you'd be man mark now like Rodri now sometimes people can stand on Rodri don't they I think now you'd be man marked I think you'd definitely be man marked in a lot of parts of your career who'd remember man marking you and sort of doing it I remember Robinson from West Brom doing it.

44:35You might not remember that, but I remember... Robinson? He was a full-back, I think. A full-back, the left-back. I don't remember him doing it. He did. I remember a lad at Sunderland doing it. Was it Thirlwell or... Midfield player. I remember him doing it at Sunderland once. Paul Thirlwell? Something like that, yeah. Sunderland, I think, away. Sunderland away, I remember. Just take him everywhere, don't you? Like I said. But then you probably free up other players. Of course, obviously. That's what you didn't. That's the idea of doing it, yeah. Stoke used to do it all the time I think your man Walters he did it a few times he always had that one centre forward who dropped in he tried to do it but I quite like that it gives you it's like a little game and you're always in it come on am I going to get away from him this episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing

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46:02This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. What was the difference? Because obviously, you had two partners really, didn't you, in your time that you played in central midfield. One was Roy, and then obviously Michael was the next one. Nicky as well. And Nicky when you played with Nicky. Michael. I used to think it was either Nicky or you with Roy. Yeah, that's probably right. You know what I mean? It was mainly... So what was the difference between those two? I've never heard you talk about it in terms of playing with Roy and playing with Michael. What would the difference be in terms of how you'd have to play or how you'd have to adapt?

46:38Carriage you're talking about. He would sit up. Michael just stayed, didn't he? Michael played the position. If you wanted someone to show an example of how to play that position perfectly, always being in the right place, that was Michael. Keeping the ball ticking over. Keeping the ball ticking over. simple but he could get forward he always played that position perfectly that was something I could never do I was off somewhere there's a discipline to what he's doing it's amazing how you're in the right place all the time it was different if one of us went one of us stayed that was just the way we were coached then even Michael Carrick people forget we had Carrick and Scholes and Lampard and Gerrard and that you know when you hear it you just feel like that's but again a lot of options already you can have too many options too many options we're talking about having options having options at that level with the managers that you're out they're supposed to deal with they're supposed to we can't have it's the way your team plays as well if you think when I was playing with Roy we were such an attacking team because he he's not Roy's not saying he wants to get involved he's fucking down the right wing down the left wing he's everywhere and he's back doing what he should be doing for the team so you're in such an attacking team obviously there has to be a bit of discipline about it but didn't it seem so simple when we were doing it because people say how did you do it well if you went for it well I just took it maybe we overcomplicate it now it's amazing how people think you must have worked on that with Roy you must have worked on that with Michael Paul you know when you played left wing for England like how did you actually feel being out there and now we'd probably see if it was like a centre midfielder playing out on the left that come inside it wasn't a left it wasn't a wide left it was inside because the debut was in Italy remember we played Italy in France he was in the centre the thing is I remember because you set that I played the ball you played the ball I remember I played the ball for you thank you I don't remember that one but you know what was good about it I was thinking I generally thought because obviously it was a tournois I think I was on the bench and you needed and my game was trying to get beyond them you know trying to get beyond them that was perfect for me honestly and that's the thing I'm thinking fucking Scolzi's here now that's it I mean because he'd done it in Italy bam brought it down boom backspin bam scored and I'm thinking yes here we go obviously it's a dream for you you'd make Scolzi and obviously Burkham do it so if you're making lunch you know they're going to maybe find you you know that's what I'm saying and I thought with Scolzi coming in that's the person I need to just like fucking just go bang over but it just didn't happen for me on the left hand side though I did a lot for United you did and I loved it it felt different didn't it it felt different I think just because we were in control of games you reckon it's as simple as that you think I think so with England you wasn't and also with in that left hand channel you do have to run back don't you you're right back at the time you're the one as I say with United we have possession that's what I mean you're in total control of games when you play that left hand side in that little hole there Eric I did it a lot for the A team didn't I if you remember but scored loads of goals.

49:52But did we have loads of possession all the time? Do you reckon? Were we obsessed with possession? No. It wasn't 30 degree heat where you're having to trap back. But you felt in control of games though, didn't you? Do you reckon scores him? Of course you were. I thought I'd seem to be mad every week. I thought I was just... It felt relentless playing against it. It seemed to be, didn't it? No, no, no. When we played against it, it felt like you had the ball and it was at pace as well. It was like wham, wham, wham. Yeah, at pace. You know, at pace. It just felt relentless. I don't remember every time, you know, where you're going, or keep it at the back because if someone did talk five, six passes at the back you'd be going get a fuck I just didn't play very well for England when I played in that position maybe it's a different reason I don't know but I just wasn't very good there when I did it for United I felt comfortable and I don't know why I did it on the right a couple of times do you remember?

50:39did it on the right for United or England? for United as well I just felt that was a bit harder because obviously on the left side you'd be cutting in on your right yeah it was perfect if I had Scholes in front of me I just knew it wouldn't work yeah I did I just knew we were both blocking each other off because I couldn't pass it to him and then get round him there was nothing there you just knew it was going to be a bit of a chaos yeah Glen Oda would have found a position for it Glen Oda did find a position for it Glen Oda would have done it just quickly on that I'm definitely going to go down the Lampard-Gerrard-Skoles route it's been done a million times it's not been spoke about but when you think about Sven's conundrum and you think about that conundrum that he had because he had Bex obviously for the right he had you Frank and Stephen what would you like to think now that that would have happened in that period where would you have dropped yourself would you have picked yourself would you have played with Frank would you have played with Stephen would you have basically played three of them what would you have done because I don't know I don't think I've ever asked you that it's hypothetical let's be clear I think did you feel let down by the fact I remember you coming to see me I let myself down I remember you coming to see me I'm playing badly but right he did after the Portugal game where we got knocked out I remember coming to see me that morning he said I'm done I went what do you mean we're going home now we're out at the top no no I'm done he said I'm going to go and see Sven I went no no just have a think about it I have three or four weeks off no I'm done and he went and told Sven that he had like Maranakis is he?

52:11he's going 20 minutes after the game Scolzi did you just have in that moment I just felt so uncomfortable I was playing so badly so I just it's not my back to your question with Stevie and Frank that we weren't going to talk about I think I retired when I was 29 didn't I and that was probably around the stage where I started to go a bit deeper in the field I think that might have suited you sitting and then them two possibly I'm not saying it would have I don't know but possibly them two had great energy didn't they brilliant up and down so you mean you sitting and them two getting forward yeah only when I was 30 29 oh but you would have had the intelligence to do it wouldn't you would people have worried you about the game but no I don't know could it could it happen I know you said before you love centre forwards I know you love centre forwards because you just love the idea of passing it into centre forwards and you did this and you're round the corner into centre forwards feet that we're always showing who would be the best centre forward that you played with during your career at United that you felt I connected I also it's so hard because there were so many brilliant centre forwards you think of the four we had with yeah but I want to make the point we don't have got one straight but when one was shown remember there was always another one running the other way so you always had two options you always had two didn't you two options I wouldn't like to play now with one centre forward I don't know what I do now yeah and we did it at times we did it at times well when I played with Rude I played one season as a number 10 with Rude yeah really I absolutely love that when I see now I don't because I I always see a football team with two centre forwards because I played in teams with two centre forwards when I see the three in midfield now I thought what would I do how can I pass it into somebody how can we get the third man runs how can I link with someone one two it didn't have to be two up front it could be the ten obviously like at Yorkie and Teddy I love playing them you know what they want they know what you want they're always in the right place when I was up to them it stuck didn't it Yorkie did I could smash it into them and you'd know you could go straight away and run and vice versa We used to ping it into him.

54:18Oh, smash it into him. That's what he wanted to do. You better control it. We'd do it at pace. Yeah, they want that. You'd have runners. What was special about Rude? Maracuzzi's good at it. What separates Rude from a point of view? You played with Mark Hughes, Eric Cantona. Your Mark Hughes, Eric Cantona. Yeah, I got the very end of that, yeah. York, Cole, Solskjaer, Sherry, Rooney, Ronaldo. Yeah. You played with some players, by the way, and you picked Rude as being the person that you sit above them. Why would you pick? With Rooney and Ronaldo, I was a bit older when I saw him. your game obviously changes a little bit different with Rude I just felt I knew what Rude wanted I always felt when it come to me I knew where he was I knew where he wanted to go I knew where he wanted the ball He was out of a finisher wasn't he Rude?

54:59And he was ruthless I'd never seen anybody like it Do you know when he went through you can almost jog back to the centre circle he's just going to smash it and whether it goes right through him or something he will score he just lived for goals I'm not saying the other players didn't live for goals Of course they were all brilliant in their own way because they were playing for Man United. But it was just something about Ruud that I loved. Do you think the international retirement helped you with your club football at United? No, probably not. I didn't lie. No, honestly, it was weird. You almost brought a little bit of pressure to yourself when you're not playing that international week.

55:39You'll be ready for the week. You'll be fresh. It's hard to feel like shit. It's been less than two weeks. You know what I mean? you do you don't ever regret and say maybe I could have held on with England yeah a little bit because I hadn't really moved into that deeper role so I never really knew how that was going to work out do you know what I mean they tried to bring you back though didn't they they did yeah who was the manager Capello for South Africa yeah it wasn't right I wasn't part of the actually I felt really good I was playing alright in that deeper role I can't remember how old I was at 32 maybe I don't know I might be a bit older.

56:162010, so you'll have been 35. Fucking hell, yeah, I was when I was. Capello was 2010, wasn't it? South Africa. Yeah, he was, yeah. 35 you'll have been. Yeah, and I felt... Felt good? I really thought about doing it, but then I thought, I'd not played any qualifier games. It just didn't feel right. Capello didn't ring me. It was Stuart Pearce rang me. Right. And Capello had a great reputation at the time. I mean, I thought, if Capello, it might have been different. They might have gone and met him or something. I'm not saying Stuart Peirce it was because it was Stuart Peirce it clearly wasn't but I just didn't think it was the right thing to do Jamie Carragher came back actually he did try it the same sort of thing Jamie that's why he's like that now

57:04what was your relationship like with the boss I mean obviously I know a little bit but what was I mean he absolutely loved you he never really had a go at you I mean you could do anything he did everyone says that he never had a go at you Is that a myth question? That's a myth. You were like, no, sorry, we have got a third myth, actually. Shall we go back to the mythbusters? Yeah, I've got that question. Just, I mean, absolutely, like, you couldn't put a foot wrong, I always felt, with the boss. Oh, of course you could. You left me out millions of times. Do you know something? That's what I do remember about, actually, if Albert the kit man used to come and get your end in the...

57:33Yeah, it was horrible, didn't it? ...player's lounge. Probably never happened to him. Before the game? No, before the game, to basically leave you out. You just got one of them, didn't you, on your shoulder? the boss wants to see you and I always remember I used to sit in the same seats in the players lounge in the corner and Albert came round to see Scholes and he thought he was going to be playing we didn't know who was playing but he thought he was going to be playing he tapped me the boss wants to see you he told him to fucking he didn't go and see him he said just tell him I know what's coming it's fine you don't have to speak to him you don't have to tell me that's alright I'll get some excuses it's too cold don't have to lie to me you don't have to lie to me they're a bit physical you're not tall enough today

58:09and everything and everything He did that with me at Fulham away once. He said, I'm not tall enough to play at Fulham away. He hasn't done confirming this a few weeks ago. You're not tall enough. The money's an excuse. You can't exactly work on your hike, can't you? I love that. I love that. In terms of England, would that be the one thing that you'd say that you... I mean, it's my biggest disappointment, not winning a trophy. Would you say it's your biggest regret, England disappointment, if you thought about it? Biggest disappointment, yeah. Yeah. look I'm not saying we had the team to go on and win things because people are the golden generation don't forget about the other teams that we had to play against they're fucking some unbelievable teams you're France's you're Brazil's Brazil's Brazil's Brazil's Argentina some amazing teams Germany's at that time as well as was good though yeah it was good but I'm not sure it was ever as good as what we was playing against I think with Glen Odder with those players if you could have got them going because when you look at maybe the goalkeeper You'd say the goalkeeper was the only weakness with our teams back then, but the others, like Gary...

59:15When you put all the names down on paper, you think, yeah, that should be a good team. Yeah. But it doesn't always work like that, does it? You look at Tuchel now, what he's doing, leaving them three or four big names out for the sake of having probably a better team than he thinks at this point. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. Who's the best midfield player? modern midfield player current midfield player now in your eyes that you watch and you think yeah I'm having that See I get slugged off for this I did a top five the other week and because I don't put people like Kai Seido and Declan Rice because I like a different type of midfielder I like Fettina at PSG I think he's brilliant he's amazing I can't believe he's at Wolves I thought McAllister last year at Liverpool was brilliant now he's not started great this year but I like that more not so much attacking midfield but more controlling one who can do a bit of everything not just the defensive one who just gets around it and might score the goal here and there I like the more progressive type who do a bit of everything maybe yeah a bit of everything yeah who would be your starting midfield for England now like if all of them like Palmer Ford and Rice Bellingham Bellingham yeah Bellingham has to be in there just because of his goals I don't want to say anything he just looked at me like He's a good player.

1:00:38He's proved it on that stage. I'm trying to think of a midfield player. My mind's gone black. I know there's Declan Rice, but when people say you didn't have Declan Rice in your top five, he's not my type of midfield player. He's brought Anderson in, hasn't he? He's brought Anderson in for Forest. Yeah. He's getting a chance, yeah. Yeah, he's been good, yeah. I don't think we have that type of controlling midfield player now that can do a bit of everything, do we? We haven't got a team, I haven't got a Tony Cruz or a Modric. from them days. I just don't think... I think probably a while ago, Jack Wilshere was probably the closest to being that type.

1:01:14But obviously a load of injuries and stuff stopped him. I just don't think we've got that type who has that game intelligence. When to slow it down, do you know what I mean? When to visit into a centre forward, I just don't think there's that intelligence around. So coming towards the end of my career, and you played on to that, you were 38-39 in the end, weren't you? 38, yeah. You were in 11th Premier League title, but you retire at the age of 36, just after me, a year after me. And you basically retire for what, four or five months. What then, how mad is it that you came back? Mad. Crazy. Yeah, you retired, you didn't play football for four or five months and then you're out, I just want to play for United again.

1:01:53Honestly, I remember... I said that to myself, I want to play for United again, but I didn't mean it was going to happen. I remember commentating on the game that you first came back in, which was the City game. Yeah, we've done that game. and like I think you said something like a Friday come out on the Friday or something no he didn't come out he didn't come out but I remember finding out I think what he's back he's just playing for United again I don't tell you I think you told me actually there weren't many people didn't there no but I'm thinking like we played Blackpool away in the February when I retired the first time we played Blackpool away I felt like shit I think it was in March time 2-0 down we ended up winning the game 3-2 remember Burbett yeah I remember I came yeah and I thought oh fuck I can't do this was it the physicality It was a physicality, yeah.

1:02:34I went to the manager of the F because he wanted me to sign a new contract to play 15, 20 games a year after. I thought, no, there's no point in that. I can't do it. I feel like Shane. Playing 15, 20 games is hard, believe it or not. Yeah, yeah. Trying to... He's at 37. He is at 37. Yeah, and the manager always had a thing about me going back coaching. I was never that bothered about coaching. Usually I did your coaching, but I never got into it. So I ended up just training with Warren. You know what Warren's like. But when you retired? when I retire well I carry on training I'm going down training I had a few weeks I love to retire so you get paid that's great money was shit

1:03:14so he gave me like three or four months off just take a bit of time I'd then come and coach the reserves with Warren and Warren's a bit of a control freak anyway so he doesn't like people doing anything so I fucking trained it was brilliant I loved it I probably got reserves yeah I was like 36 37 but I felt as fit got to Christmas time I felt as fit as anything I was running with them I was doing all the running I was like a coach I just joined in and leaves it I was like running fucking hell am I right then I went I went to watch a first team game and I think Fabio De Silva and someone else in midfield I can't remember Phil Jones there then maybe yeah yeah we got beat by Blackburn at home right I was standing next to one and I said fucking hell I feel like playing again so I didn't mean for United I just saw playing I thought I need to go back playing and then I went to see people I went to see Mick Phelan because obviously Mick was assistant manager I spoke to Giggsie I think as well I said what do you think so I thought calm I'm going to look a twat here go in out you dickhead what are you on about so I was shitting myself about going in to see him and I went to see him and just said I fancy playing again even if he said no I'd have gone and played somewhere but he said no problem he ran David Gill straight away he said yeah come on let's do it wow that's crazy the mistake I made was going on the season after that was a disaster I should have took them six months and that was it yeah how many games did you play in the last season god I don't know don't know but my first game was that a city game wasn't it yeah and it didn't want to tell anybody for some reason I don't know what it was I even went to the so it was boxing day I think the first FA Cup game was the week after so it didn't want to tell anybody but there was there was a reserve team game due at Newcastle away on the Wednesday or Thursday.

1:05:01I was going to play in it. So then obviously people might get a fucking bit of an inkling that it was going to happen, but it got called off. So I didn't even train with the first team. It didn't want anybody to know. There's obviously the bits about the boots and stuff, so I didn't have a proper pair of boots, so I just had to go and buy a pair of boots. That's crazy. You've heard this before, though, haven't you? I paid like 50 quid in sports, that right, for a pair of boots. But I haven't bought a pair of boots for 20 years, so I thought it was quite expensive. I probably like 200 to 300 quid, but he wouldn't let me tell the boot sponsor because they only have the coach's boots and the coach's boots are shit, aren't they?

1:05:35So I couldn't get the proper pair of boots. But why didn't he want to tell anyone? I don't know. Just to keep it... Not me. No, he didn't want to get... The manager didn't want to tell anyone? Yeah, I don't know. He just wanted to keep it quiet. And did you feel back to the level when you, like... I thought, no. Honestly, do you know, when I first started warming up and David Platt was there... Plattie. He said, what the fuck are you doing? I said, you know, you walk past their dugout to warm up. and that's when I thought, fucking hell, he's right, what the fuck am I doing? I had an ICs, I could have just trained with Warren every day and felt all right and coming back into that and then as I was going on at sub, Mick Phelan taps me on the shoulder and like they do, the coaches come up to me, they think he tapped me on the bum and said, well this is what you wanted son.

1:06:17Fucking, the fucking last thing I needed to hear. He's gone telling me that, fuck off. Anyway, we're 3-0 up in the game, Vincent Company had been sent off so they probably thought it was safe to bring me on with half an hour to go. gave the ball away Aguero scored straight away just scored a second I thought oh it's too many and anyway ended up alright we didn't win the league did we that was the QPR yeah QPR when you say that you would have carried on playing you would never have gone abroad though would you no no I'd actually spoke to your Phil I think Phil had spoke to David Myers about it about going to Everton Wow Phil keeps a secret Phil didn't even tell you You didn't speak to anyone Your brother Your mate You nearly said Phil who Look I don't know if it would have ever happened But I would have Because I'd just got the bug back for training all the time I felt fit I might as well play Training and games are a bit different I know it is I knew that You started with Mythbusters right and your third Mythbuster actually would be a good place to finish I think but saying that Skulls you just quickly you didn't look out of place when I watched when I watched him you didn't look out of place no I was alright for the first few months I was saying it was the year after I remember we played Tottenham at home I didn't play badly but physically I just felt when you know you know I was watching like Gareth Bale run run past three or four look he'd have done that to me when I was 21 but it just felt different get me from Get me fucking disc out I couldn't even get close I couldn't get close enough to even kick him To even bring him down And I remember the big boots Oh yeah, the compression boots I was in that for about three days I reckon that was the third game of the season And I wanted to retire again But I can't go and see him I was in an ice bath for two days With my fucking boots on It's a good Halloween special They're Scalzi back from the dead I always remember because I used to get injured didn't have to all his end oh your calf used to go all the time and he used to start laughing I'd been walking off the pitch devastated thinking I've got another four or five weeks and he'd just be laughing he'd had no it was every time every time we went on the train remember the first first day of pre-season you were Italian he said come on we weren't even supposed to go out and do a few runs he said come on we'll go out and do a few boxes of boxes fucking calf went what the fuck are you doing but once your calf goes that's it I was done.

1:08:54Right, so that third myth buster. Is it true that you signed for Inter Milan, but Fergie blocked it? Don't answer it yet. Do we think Scott can't be true, that? I'll sign. He signed for Inter Milan, or he's signing for Inter Milan, and Sir Alex Box blocked it. Well, the other two are myths, so I'm going to go truth. He just said there, he wouldn't have gone abroad. I know, but this was when you were 28. This would have been when you were 28. There's a rumour, there was a time where you and Giggs, were both heavily rumoured with Italian club wasn't there? Giggs he was for one Juventus Juventus and Inter Milan I think AC Milan were like they were still at that time I'm going to probably say they probably would have wanted him I'm going to go with that I'm going to go true I'm not saying they wouldn't have wanted him not that he would have been tempted I can't see that he would have been tempted to sign did you get made an offer from Inter Milan?

1:09:42that was very aggressive wasn't it? it turned all over yes or no did you get made an offer from Inter Milan? I got a phone call from an agent who? Ryan Giggs' agent Harris Wales alright just say look I don't know if it was true double deal a double deal go on down you and Giggs deal yeah Giggs deal I forgot about that and they said it was at the Euros it was at Belgium and Holland oh yeah 2002 just beat Germany 2000 he ran with it after he said so you're 25 Inter Milan was it 25 yeah Inter Milan want to give you £4 million a year tax free I'll just say I'm not taking a pay cut I'll tell you something funny we got to pre-season you need to go and see the manager tell him you wanted more money it's the worst thing I ever did in my life I felt so bad did you go in?

1:10:34I did yeah so Inter Milan offered you 4 million tax free well Harry Swales did but to be fair Harry was a trust yeah yeah oh of course he was I know I'm right saying but 4 million tax free is massive back then it was bigger than I was getting and then it probably... What would you have been on United at that time? I think it probably more than double. More than double your United? Yeah. I remember seeing it on the back of the paper. £30 million went into Milan or something. But I never heard anything about it ever again after that. So I obviously said no to Harry. The reason that I think you ought to have heard anything about it ever again, I don't know this for a fact, I suspect they've contacted the club, and he's just completely shut it down and said, get out of my sight.

1:11:14I actually still put up the courage if I'm still going to go. See the manager? Yeah. I think he says something like I think I deserve more money or I want to be on more money what am I doing? Just look at him so he pulls a little black book out a little black book yes so he's looking through the pages for like five minutes no I think you're alright I think you're level with everyone it's fine that was it I think what you're on is good alright thanks see you later jeez that is the worst that's my biggest regret in football doing that but just you say that it's not mad really if you think of the level you were playing at the time you just won the treble around that time you're one of the best midfield players in Europe and you go in and ask him for money that other clubs would offer it's not mad at all double as well double what other clubs do I must admit knowing you as I did it is mad don't I I'm at Man United I'm at the club of my dreams yeah no I shouldn't be getting that anyway yeah but it's not a good way to start negotiations you going in always let them yeah come to you yeah but Roy Joseph I mean understanding what he's just said knowing how hard that would have been for you to go and see the manager you know I I'm hearing that for the first time I can't believe he's done that yeah but straight away If you go in, not just scores example, if you go and ask for a pay raise, anybody, you're already a bit...

1:12:21Yeah, behind the pupil. You're around the black hole. You know, in my heart, I was thinking about it now, because I feel so bad doing it. There needed to be a shield in front of you, so it needed an agent or management to go in and see that and do that deal. Yeah, yeah, top of your head, yeah. You would use that on somebody's in front, they want to give them that. Are you going to match it? But you'd have to go in to see Sir Alex like that when he's brought you through and everything. I think that was something that happened in them. Yeah, a lot more. It doesn't happen now. and all you lads you always had two or three years left in your deals always didn't seem to be we always signed five six years so the club was in the bargaining position going two years left chill out a little bit you know what I mean that's why it's probably not a great position to be in going in and asking for a deal well Scolzi you came in this morning not knowing you were going to be the guest and we didn't know you were going to be the guest and you walked past ambushed you Bulli G you said before to be fair but I think you're on one of the most beautiful conversations unbelievable brilliant thanks Scolzi Beautiful, Scolzi Thank you I love you, Scolzi Scolzi, amazing Thank you Well done

1:13:27I went to see Brian Robson when I was 17, 18 my dad said, look, you know we've got no one to ask and I went to see Robert I was shaking like a leaf Were we asking for money? To be fair, they offered us our first pro contracts me, Scolzi, Bex Jono Kane Keith Gillespie footy we all got offered the same contract four years £210 a week £230 £250 I found my contracts last week I'm going to bring them in next time they were your first pro ones the first pro contract and it was five grand signing on for a year and I just said look we're all getting offered the same thing to Brian is this right and he said yeah no it's good you're alright with that they'll look after you what did you want more than us I deserve more than us he wanted a whoosh got a long throw what was that 90 93 94 to be fair you were playing and you were probably in the team yeah I was playing for I was thinking at the time I was with England I was playing I was playing for England £200 a week this is not right is it he was building four hotels at the time on£250 a week good point how would you do that thanks for listening and thanks to our partners and clothing subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode