Spurs Sack Thomas Frank & Ange Postecoglou Doesn’t Hold Back!

0:00Just before we get started, a quick thanks to our partners and clothing. We hope you enjoy the show. You can go your own way. Isn't Roy on one of them? Go your own way. I like that song. That's more my... You can call it another lonely day. Metal rock. Thank you. What's happening, G-Force? Roy said he's retiring in a year. From? From everything. Yeah, he says that all the time. He said when he hits 55. So you... I'm glad you came in. Why, what's up? What's up, Gary? Here he is. she said that you're retiring in a year from everything yeah see don't tell Jill anything what are the conversations in the green room you said it was Jill you're going to stop when we were walking down it wasn't in the green room Gary we were walking down Jill just stop telling me are we the problem there's still comments yeah it's not you it's me I'm good that's a good company you didn't reply to his you didn't reply to his Oh, it's...

1:02Because I know I've seen him today. I made a boxing match. Just a charity one. A feeling Jill wouldn't be about. I just had a feeling. Who's the boxing match? It's a charity boxing match. What? Charity? Like, white collar thing? I think it's like the fire brigade versus the police or something. Oh! They get it. All right, Jill. No, Shelly's sister's fighting, isn't she? She's a firefighter, yeah. So she used to play football, obviously, for, like, England and everything. and now she's a firefighter. So she's fighting. Nice. Do you do boxing? No. I might, I think, for now. No, there's a bit of training, but there's a big thing in Liverpool, actually, in about three or four.

1:42How does Bendy fight in Liverpool? Yeah, I think somebody messaged us about that. Yeah, like ex-pros fighting each other. Did you do that? I don't think I would. Who had a fight a few months ago? There was a couple of fighters. Did Jordi Morris fight somewhere? Yeah, it's the same sort of thing. Jordi fought, was it David Bentley? Yeah, do the one. Jordi. Jordi, man, Jordi. How's with Jordi? I might make Bradley O's fighting. Who's he fighting? I don't know who's fighting. It's Chris. I was with Jodie. I think. Oh, no. Something like that. I'm sure I got an invite to that, actually. He's just a good guy, bro.

2:10He's a really good guy. If you could choose one person to fight, who would you fight? Like you, he looks good. What's up, girl? You look... I don't... I'm trying to think. How many people do you think would tune in if me and you fought live? Oh, a lot. You should do it for charity. A lot. Let me do it. Yeah. Two men. How many people? I think quite a few people. You've done a bit, haven't you? I saw you with Tony Bellew, right? Doing a bit. Yeah, so people have fucking got this thing. I go to the boxing gym. I don't box and do circuits or something like that. But my mate was in there yesterday, Bradley O, ex-pro.

2:45He was starting his training for this. The guy who's organised, I think I'm sure, was he a young keeper at Arsenal, Graham Stack? Yeah, Graham Stack. So he's like the, sort of a charity, obviously. but that was the one your turn I think was in London yes so they brought it to Liverpool so Brad obviously trying to get different fighters and people involved are you two going to get involved or no Brad wouldn't be a fair contest honestly you'd be you'd struggle now obviously no but he's done a little bit yeah but you're underestimating Gary's natural power no I'm not no I'm not you know what I mean he's just a lump isn't he he's not a lump no he's everything about him is just big he just He'll be holding on to it.

3:28He'll be holding on to it. Yeah, just holding on to it. He'll wear you down. You only need a couple of body... Give Jamie a couple of real body shots. Whack! Yeah, but you're at Barry's gym every morning. No, I thought if I... But I don't box. I've never... I've said that I'm here before. I've never had a fight in my life. You've never jabbed in that, gal? That's something you're proud of, isn't it? Yeah. Do you know something? I'm surprised no-one's ever hit me.

3:52Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. Look what Mourinho's done. Look what we've seen Conte do when they do their rants, talking about how they've got no ambition. They've got those managers thinking, right, we put those in and let's leave it. The idea that Spurs could get dragged into a relegation zone and potentially go down would be catastrophic, and I think they just can't take that risk anymore. Thomas Frank's just been sacked. Our guest this week is Ange Postacoglu. Should we get him in? Ange, in you come. Ange, in you come. What timing, Ange. What timing, eh? It's a curious club, Tottenham, you know.

4:23It's made a major pivot at the end of last year. not just with me, but with Daniel leaving as well, you've got to understand there's kind of a basic instability there. Is there almost a lack of belief that you can go and do something? A hundred percent there is. Yeah, absolutely. And that was the thing I was trying to break. It's fuzzy. I mean, that's what it was all about. Is that a thing? You're inside the building. You see what would be a sort of quite mundane block or a clearance from a corner. And there's four high fives from each player. If you're doing this and you've got a corner to defend, that is not right.

4:51They throw it to the goalie and you just see all the West Ham players just run around. The ball's there. You're still rolling back to the edge of the box. I'm screaming at the channel. Where are you going?

5:06Right, we had some football last night. Yeah. That's why I wanted to ask you when you go, Cole Palmer's missed. Have you ever missed one like that? No. Never? Not like that. It's not that close. Oh, I felt sorry for him. Is that a really bad one, that? I think because of how close it is, the only thing I would say to it, you know, Roy's got his...

5:26his opinion on goal scorers. As soon as you're talking about goals, you go to the striker or something. He's got the ump about that. But the thing with it is, for me as a striker, you're watching that even if you're a yard out because that can happen. So a striker, he might come in just thinking, this is a goal, I'm so close, and it's gone over and he can't believe you see him. He could not believe. I think he's relaxed. Absolutely relaxed. You don't miss that if you just punch it in the goal. But that's his attitude, isn't it? And he's not a striker, is he? No, no, no. That's the thing. He's a brilliant player, but he's not a striker.

5:56But the thing is, with strikers, this is why I can confidently say, Harry Kane never misses that. Would never miss that. Robbie Fowler never missed that. You don't miss that. Is it a focused conversation? It's an absolute focus thing, because he's coming, he can see everything, the goalie's not there, it's just coming across, he's thinking he's just going to go like that and it's gone in. But that is why you don't do it. Absolutely too casual. And that is why that can happen. He looks sharp, though, doesn't he? I know that he's... Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's getting to it. I think Liam's done something.

6:23He's got him going. At least he's getting his fitness back up. Exactly. But he could be peeking right at... Perfect time for himself, yeah. He makes a game look so easy. Like the first goal, just receiving in the pocket, one touch bang through. Brilliant. He is brilliant to watch. He's got a beautiful way to... The way he glides, the way he moves. If he's had his best, I think it's hard to leave him off for England. But Roy, I think, do you prefer when I hear you talk about Cole Palmer? Because you're obviously, to be fair, you set a high bar for players and you don't give too much candy to even the greatest players sometimes.

6:50But with him, I always feel like he's sort of like there's admiration it's like there is a bit of jealousy towards him because of his attitude he's dead again the opposite to when I played so when I see players like playing with dad what Gilles just said that makes the game look so easy he plays like he's playing in the street doesn't he now that can backfire a little bit I'm sure with certain managers or maybe with Pep he's probably talking to need a bit more concentration and he's still young and learning the game or missing a chance like that but when he's at it it's just like you can imagine when he's younger because he's to keep that kind of that kind of attitude towards football and you're a professional playing with that kind of like he's got that you can imagine when he was younger this is probably why that's why Pep I can see Pep getting frustrated with that a little bit yeah but you've got to let him go did you see the next time he got the ball after the miss you know when you know someone's like you know someone you've all played you've made a mistake and you want to make up for it but you're not good what can you do with the ball you could see in his head I'm going to do something here and he got a foul right on the edge he just sort of got it and he just went right I'm off and he just went on this little remember the free kick right the last kick of the game that was it but he got it but I could just see his mentality he was like I've got to do something I've got to you know what I mean he got a dangerous free kick I think that mentality I think he believes whatever team he's playing for even probably when he's at Man City and he wasn't getting that many games I know he was a kid probably thinks I'm the best player on this team he's got that energy and I like that about him he's got that energy obviously there's always a fine line between confidence and cockiness but I think when he's as best he does then back it up I just enjoy watching him playing a bit like Scoresy these lads who kind of they make the game look easy do you know the player who makes me feel like that every time I watch him is Bernardo Silva yeah I watch Bernardo Silva and it absolutely mesmerises me how he keeps the ball in tight areas against players that are like 6 foot 1 or 6 foot 2 and he gets out of it and wriggles out of it and then he pops up on the right wing and all of a sudden he's at the edge of the box you almost don't know what position he plays no he's just mad I always worry about when he's in midfield I always think that physicality he will cost, and I think sometimes it does cost him the odd time, but the other stuff he does, again, focus on what he's doing.

8:49Even the game against Liverpool is influenced on the game. To get in the box like that. Yeah, his instinct for that goal and then for the little ball that leads to the penalty. Again, you have to admire that. Gary, your commentary was so on point. You were like, I think they need a bit more from Haaland and Silva and then literally he heads it and then Silva puts it in. It was like literally to the point. To be fair, I just felt that it was growing away from Silva. I felt like it was all disappearing. That's what I thought. I thought, actually, Pep Guardiola's not going to win a league two years on the bounce.

9:21I still don't think he will. No, I don't think he will. But my point is, is it going to drift towards an innocuous sort of like, just two years of Pep just not being anywhere near it? I thought, he's going to be out of a title. It's not necessarily backing it now. But that would be... We all watch loads of football. Why are we surprised that happened? When you play us like Haaland on a pitch, something can happen. You can be watching a game and got these teams. they're awful and they're 70 yards and then they pop up with a few big moments we've kind of done it at United, Arsenal I've done it at Liverpool particularly over the year you find moments that's what players do we're like what a win but why are we that surprised because we see so many games the thing with Haaland watching him though and listen I think you said at the end of the game he turns up in a big moment as in he gets the assist he scores a penalty but I just feel like every time I watch him in a big game and I love Haaland I've said for me he's probably the best goal scorer we've probably ever seen in English football or games to goals ratio.

10:16But whenever I see him up against, when you think of the best defenders in the world, so let's say Van Dijk, every time he's up against Van Dijk, it feels almost too easy for Van Dijk than it should be, considering who he's up against. Or I see him against Inter Milan in the Champions League final, Bastoni or someone, or Rude got a couple of times for Real Madrid. Has he got that lastiness in his make-up? Because he's obviously where he's from. Sometimes the Scandinavians aren't, I'd love to see him as well have a go with somebody physically because he's 6 '2", 6 '3". Just knock a few people over and stand over him.

10:50We were obviously watching from the box. It was almost like he was shaking hands with Van Dijk and almost getting them over. You know when... I was getting angry with him. Why? As the game went on. The reason I sort of said they've got to step up now was because I was getting angrier with the fact that... Thomas Frank's just been sacked. Oh, wow. Kieran, you dropped that. Grim Reaper out over my shoulder like that is going to frighten me. Is he definitely or is it just Instagram? You know something? You know what I was just going to say about Van Dijk? I think we should change our tact here a bit now.

11:20What? Cheers, Cam. Maybe Thomas Frank? Let's do Thomas Frank and come back. Can I just say quickly about Haaland, though? I'm glad that they kept him on because usually if strikers aren't playing... Yeah, but sometimes they take them off, don't they? And then big moments... Mikey was on a... Mikey didn't want to start him. What? He didn't want to start him. For what? Not start Haaland? Because the game before, he'd looked okay with a split strike. Oh, my gosh. And then he wanted them to bring him off. What? You're joking. You never take a player like that off. No, but you used to say you'd get big goals, 86, 87th minute, whereas now they take strikers off if they're not doing well.

11:56Who's the real thing? Who's the real thing? Who's the real thing? Who's the real thing? No, you didn't. I was trying. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. This was going to be our big section today. Tottenham to be fair and its title of the section was could Spurs get relegated they're currently sacked I mean obviously the Manchester United goal last night was helpful to them yeah massively five goals but I mean they've sacked Thomas Frank I'm I'm not surprised I'm not surprised but to be fair the initial reaction should be whatever football point of view another manager loses his job like that he's listen still new to the club from that I know we'll analyse it but it's bless you it's not good it's not good for these managers I know again I go back to it you're shaking hands with the devil you go into certain clubs you know if you're going through a sticky patch you just know they won't stick with you imagine going into a job you know any sort of difficult spell you're going to have you're gone you know what as well you can see it's funny because like you're thinking like they've got 12 what's it 12 games 12 days before the next game you're thinking if they're going to do something they'll probably do it now or they're going to wait because the next game is the North London derby so you're thinking is he going to give him the time to get it right so maybe they can beat Arsenal and then have a little bit of a run or are they going to sack him now?

13:13I didn't think they'd sack him now but I think they have to. They have to move now. They have to. I always think when stadium's empty, I always think, to be fair, the billionaire owners look at it and that is a clear... You're struggling to think. I did the Spurs-Chelsea game very early in the season and I was sort of worried for... I don't know Thomas Frank, but it's just something about it didn't feel right. The fans and the way they were trying to go about it and playing, it's like a derby game. And Thomas, I remember at Brentford, no matter what the game, they'd almost do a lap of one. It was almost like delighted to be in the Premier League.

13:51The fans and the team, everyone's together. And he walked around the side of the pitch and I was watching him, because you stay a bit longer on the common seat, and I was watching him. He was going around clapping the fans and it was like, he almost thought he was back at Brentford and it was like the fans were like lunatic. The way they played, it was Chelsea. and I was thinking, no, this is different. You can almost feel it being a bit different. And the problem he's had is Daniel Levy employed him, who left straight away, so the people in charge are not there. No, he was, that was Daniel Levy.

14:18I know, but Vinay came in from Arsenal, this sort of wonder CEO, that was supposed to be the one that basically Daniel was passing over sort of what would be power to. Whether that happened or not, we don't know. But he sat there, Vinay, to be fair, for I don't know how long, I don't know the guy, but he meant to be very well thought of Arsenal. Yeah, Arsenal, he had done so much. He goes to Tottenham and look there'd be pressure on him then going has he people would be looking at new CEOs going ex-Arsenal have you got the power and the strength to get rid of this manager sports fans might be looking at him a little bit but you go back to it the start manager going but what happens to a little bit of going let's get through this sticky patch you know the thing is Roy there's no way as well as an Arsenal guy Vinay as an Arsenal guy going in there and them start it doesn't help Tom it doesn't help him at all I thought this started well against against Man United.

15:07If they'd kept 11 on the pitch, I actually thought they were playing well. But then he's been let down, hasn't he? Yeah, we'll get to him. I mean, look, I think the one thing I would say is, Thomas Frank, to be fair, Roy's right, the manager's lost his job. And to be fair, I think we all like Thomas Frank. What he did at Brentford, interviewing him, a good guy. But when he walks out of that door today, there are a number of managers who have walked out of that door in the last five, six, seven, eight, nine years. The likes of Mourinho, Conte, Nuno, Ange. obviously now him they're not all mugs these guys some of these are serial winners Conte's gone over to Italy Mourinho's doing things that club what is wrong with that football club forget the Spurs-y stuff the flaky stuff let's seriously talk about the fact that this football club it won a Europa League last year so it won a trophy for the first time in 40 odd years 50 years but it's a shocker of a performer it's a shocker of a performer when it comes to Premier League when it comes to only Pochettino really for a couple of years Harry Redknapp had a little spell Harry Redknapp top ten years before that Pochettino was the one they should have really backed at that stage when he finished second and are they one of the big spenders they spend a lot of money as well don't they not as much as the rest but they do spend to be fair in line with clubs that do better what do you do in terms of spend if you look at the net spend they'll be right probably above Liverpool say over the last five ten years it's the wages and when you look at a lot of people who look at the money and wages they actually go for your wage bill wage bill actually more than your transfer spend almost determined a little bit where the league is I suppose and Tottenham are just like they don't pay that was under Daniel Levy now we can say he runs the club fantastically well training ground stadium I get all that but they don't pay the type of wages that the other players when you go back to when we all played against Spurs I know from a football point of view you always felt again there's something missing at that football club but what is it?

16:57I think there's a softness no doubt on the pitch and off it and whatever goes on in the building and we've heard they've obviously got a magnificent stadium they've got an amazing training ground so from the outside looking in you go from a business point of view it's a brilliant football club but them Tervas are having a proper DNA and turning it week in week out and putting a shift in and Gill you said they were a bit unlucky last week but they still lost the game and self-inflicted and their home form going back to last season it's not good but Annie you don't know about these managers now but whoever goes in next again you're shaking hands with the devil and as soon as you go into Spurs the next manager goes to Spurs don't be talking about projects you just have to survive for a year or two because as soon as you get through a difficult spell you're guaranteed to be sacked at Spurs maybe years ago we didn't think that with Spurs they might give somebody a couple of years anyway but that's Spurs are as bad as anybody no one ever believes they'll win I don't ever believe they'll I'm going to say win I mean they'll be a big team so if you think of say for years Arsenal and Spurs for me Arsenal are a bigger club than Spurs but for a good few years it was almost like We were both coming sort of fourth and fifth.

18:04Hodge was there and Arteta was starting. But you do think if Arsenal get this right, they could win the league or they're getting better each year. I would never think that about Spurs. But what's the difference? Some of the sides, clubs, stadiums... Less than the year you would have thought that was their biggest challenge. I think it's got to be the ownership. It's got to be the ownership. Because, look, to be fair, what you can say is that, you know, Manchester City have brought owners in and they've become successful. Chelsea have brought owners in and become successful. Blackburn brought owners in and became successful Clubs have brought owners in and become successful Yeah but that day owners who just go and Just absolutely blow everyone out the walls In terms of spending But Tottenham to be fair to them with what they have If they were to sell to a different set of owners When you have sustained failure When big money's been spent for a long time You have to then look at the top You can't go anywhere else then You can't keep looking at the players and the manager You've got to look at something different If you've got repeated failure time and time again That's underpitched on Ev isn't it?

18:59Because often they're successful. Absolutely. So the people who own Spurs will say, as business people, Spurs is just part of the bigger picture. They will say, we've got the best stadium, we make lots of money from concerts and NFL. So that's what they bought the club for, I think, from a business point of view. They'll see that as success. I mean, now we must look at the fact that they do need a change of ownership to become successful, because obviously you've seen that this ownership are not going to bring success. They're not. But why would they sell it if they see it as a successful business?

19:32Look, I think there comes a point where... You do that now, though, aren't we in the Newcastle situation? And listen, I think Tottenham bring more money into the club because of the stadium, and I get that. But this idea of bringing some rich guy in, are you allowed to do that now with PSA? Look at Newcastle, they just did a glass ceiling. But they have rich guys in there now. What's another rich guy... Is it more decision-making? No, but we're not talking just about money, I agree with you, but we're talking about mentality here aren't we as well well the thing is as well you have to look as well when you look at to be able to produce at Harry Kane right and Harry Kane being like arguably I think our greatest goal scorer he's proven that at level and for the football club and the owners to not recognise we need to build something around this striker because this guy will deliver and they didn't do that all those years to the point then I don't think they're ever going to do anything if they can't do it when they've got someone like him who's come through the ranks What have Spurs won in the last 50 years?

20:27Last 50 years? No, they've not won. Obviously, FA Cup. I've gone back now. It's obviously the 80s, FA Cups. Have they won five trophies? So once you get out of the early 80s, so they win the UEFA Cup in 1984, they challenge for the title with Everton in 85, and then they get to the Cup Final in 87, they lose that against Coventry. So once you get out of the mid-80s, that's when I first started watching football. So it's a 5-60. So we're going to sit here and discuss why Spurs are in disarray. You go, well, they've actually only won five. Roughly, there's a five, six trophies in 50. Can we find out?

21:03If you get the early 80s out of the way. Right, OK. So that's... That's not a big expectation. They won a league in... How far back do you want to go? You're throwing a good period of time there, aren't you? It's a long time. Almost 40. This is where you go back to what you class as a big club or a successful club. Is it the revenue? Is it the stadium? Or is it actually getting your hands on a trophy? Is all of those things right, to be fair? It's history. is a stadium that's all part of the package but it's also trophies but we shouldn't be sitting there scratching heads going Spurs they've not done anything the last few years ago they've not done anything for the last two years yeah that's what I'm saying to you it's a stage failure you've said it yourself it's the owners it's the owners haven't got the ambition of a Bramovich Bramovich wants to win if you like I know our owners they want to win they've got people who they've got the franchise that win they want to win I don't know if Spurs' owners want to win where does the expectation come from then if Roy's saying obviously they haven't won The history of, like, what do you say?

21:56But is that more of the way they play, though, and the characters they've had? Yeah, but it's... It's always, like, they're a bit... I think they won the double. The first team to win the double. I think they're the first English team to win a European Sophie. So Spurs are... They're a massive... They've got a huge history. I agree with you. I'm a Spurs fan. I followed Spurs when I was a kid. Yeah, of course. It's funny. A few years ago, James said to me, who's the bigger club, Tottenham or Chelsea? I said Tottenham. Now, in my head, but then the more I thought about it, I thought it's wrong. Chelsea win trophies.

22:24And what I mean by that, when I was a kid, Tottenham were huge. And Chelsea were a team who sometimes might actually get relegated. Tottenham, for me, were one of the big five. That's because I was born in 1978. Start watching football, mid-80s. Tottenham for being a massive club. Chelsea are just a team in the first division. But if you're someone who's like 25, 30, now you're like, as Roy said, how can you class Tottenham as a kid? There's always a good... But I think our mistake is when we talk about Spurs or Spurs last weekend, you and I, going, there's a nice ring to it. You always think Spurs will bring something to the party, but they'll be going home by themselves, you know what I mean?

22:57It's one of them ones, you know what I mean? They'll talk all night on their own. I always look forward. I look forward to the Tottenham game, so. I do, like, when it was Son, Kane, Madison, like, you know what I mean? Like, for instance, you look at them against Burnley, like, with Romero, what's he doing, the captain? And what he's doing, coming out, speaking like he is, setting an example. I wanted to get on to him. You know what I mean? I said instantly, as soon as they've done that I've sort of fine him fine him do something say something Thomas you know something I was thinking he looks and the way he walked off when he got sent off made me even more angry it's like he didn't care but you're on about Spurs what do Spurs fans want when you watch Spurs the first thing they say they always say most Spurs fans say we want to play a lovely style of football a lot will argue that we want to win trophies as well but there is that first thing the priority with Spurs is when they've got Mourinho and people like that we play a certain style of football but I'm happy with that happy with what?

23:52You can play beautiful football and great football and entertaining football and win. Manchester City United Liverpool's football under club it's great football so I think this idea that fans should either have to accept crap football and win or if you play entertaining football you might not win they should expect Spurs fans should expect great football and to be successful. I think that was probably something years ago where you'd always look at them and be a bit soft they weren't tough enough to win the league but I think we've had this debate with Man United a few weeks ago in terms of DNA.

24:22But I think the DNA of most top clubs now is almost to play good football or pass and the game's more technical. Now, but something we spoke about on Monday Night Football, if you look at it, probably let's say the last 10 years of the Premier League, when we take these managers, I don't think we might have mentioned they're on here, at the bottom of the Premier League, the pragmatic, difficult to beat, maybe a little bit direct, rely on set pieces. Can they make that jump to a club to play maybe a little bit more football. And so often the Premier League hasn't worked. Even like Moise going to United, Roy Hodgson to Liverpool, they play a certain start.

24:58And it's not criticism of them, by the way. I'm just thinking of other managers now. Nuno going to Tottenham doesn't quite work. Big Sam going to Newcastle. I thought Thomas Frank would have been all right. Because they always say, if I have a better style of player, I'll play that type of football. But it doesn't quite work. When you heard that Thomas Frank was going to Tottenham, did you feel the same way there? No, because you know what, righty? what I've just said there the more I was thinking it was to Thomas Frank the more it got me thinking about other managers because Thomas Frank was one of those managers I don't think you'd ever labelled him long ball at Brentford you'd almost say he's got a good mix in some ways when you watch Brentford but they couldn't really transform me If you're not playing good football though you've got to be hard to beat don't you and I think Tottenham fans want a plan B sometimes it's like the managers just go with this I definitely think Spurs fans if they were winning most weeks but not playing long balls you're on a boat I don't think they'd be happy I don't think Spurs fans still want to have that element of inter-tale like the Glenn Oathaway and all that I don't think a lot of clubs are now though even now even with Liverpool with slot he had like a run of not losing not winning all the time but the fans are going bananas about it to the bit like slow and turd at the football pragmatic I don't get that with Liverpool it's been a couple of games but I don't get that with Liverpool at all that criticism of this slow poor football but going back to you haven't watched all the games I have watched a lot of them, Bowen.

26:18I've watched a lot of them. I don't think his football's turgid. I just don't think it at all. I've just watched a Man City game, which is completely different. Oh, my goodness. Going back to... They're back together. I interviewed Daniel Leavitt in the summer, and he was talking about when he brought in Nuno, and then he brought in, obviously, Marino and Conte. And he actually said that, basically, it was to bring in cold-hearted, ruthless killers who would win for the club. Because that was his attempt at saying, look, we get the good football bit, we've tried that for years, we played great football under Harry, great football under Pochettino and other managers, however we need now serial winners in the football club and that experiment failed for them.

26:56Massively, from Daniel Levy's point of view. No, what I'm saying is the thinking behind it at the time, you couldn't argue with the thinking of bringing these types of managers in. Yeah, but only if you're going to back them because those same managers were constantly talking about not being backed and the attitude of the people upstairs and the fact that they don't want to, Look what Mourinho's done. Look what we've seen Conte do when they do their rants, talking about how they've got no ambition. They've got those managers thinking, right, we put those in and let's leave it. But righty, just on that, though, I don't believe for one minute Daniel Levy would have said to Jose or to Antonio Conte on the way in, by the way, we're going to let you spend£250 million a year here.

27:31They will have known the circumstance. He won't have lied to them and said, there's like a checkbook that's basically... There must have been some promises of something to get those managers to come, though, Gary. I think you know the score at Tottenham. they're not going to spend like Chelsea they sat Marino a week before the cup final was it the cup final when you're getting Marino or Conte you're thinking that they're going to go to that next place that's why I was excited from oh my god Marino at Tottenham the first thing I thought oh shit Arsenal Tottenham that's the first I'm thinking because they've got the right manager so you're thinking if you've got the right manager then when we saw what he's done at Chelsea you're going to back this manager because he'll do it this episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing Where do Tottenham go from here now in terms of right now?

28:15Because who's available? Who are they going to get? Is it a stopgap? Is it a stopgap? I think they just need to get out of this relegation. Like, they don't want to get into this relegation battle, do they? They just need someone to come in and win games till the end of the season. United weren't in danger of going down. Carrick? Carrick in the summer. Carrick's safe, he's got a job. United weren't in danger of going down. United quite... He played for Spurs. Hey, he played for Spurs. Carrick, give him the job. He knows everybody. Right, United said basically that they wanted a bridge to the end of the season, right?

28:46And they appointed Michael Carrick and they're quite clear about that at the time. What did Tottenham do? Did they do the same and appoint someone who's basically knows the club? Who's there? But they're still in Europe, aren't they? Yeah, but... So they're still competing to try... Oh, no, Roy. They've sacked the manager because of that. They've won two in 17 in the league. What about Oli? Oli's going to social. Roy, ring Oli now. Get Oli on. That's what he's doing. Let's get it on, seriously. I'm just saying but a manager's been sacked right so let's do it seriously are you going to get a stop camp or get a manager it's true though he's just been sacked who's available Ryan Mason will they go back to Ryan Mason oh no that's been done that's been done I think just bring someone in until the end of this season just to get them they're still competing they could be in a relegation fight who's the favourite what manager who's the favourite it's now for the job to go in they'll be out there straight away they wouldn't get him but would they go for Xavi Alonso I don't think Xavi Alonso will go to top Well, they've moved quickly in respects of getting rid of him.

29:39I think they have to go for somebody. I don't think it'd be a stopgap. I think there's too much to stay. Who's available now, Roy? There is people available, but that's not the question. Who's the right option? There's loads available. There'll be loads of... The madness we sit here now. Deserby? Yeah, Deserby actually is not about to go. He just lost 5-0 his last game. PSG. It'll be perfect for Tom. Deserby, Pochettino, Xavi, Marco Silva, Uriola, Robbie Keane, the wrong Keane, Ruben Ameren, Glasner. Maresca can we get Klopp back in the Premier League I miss him so out of those names Kieran McKenna Klasny Lidlielva Deserby Pochettino they're the five six names that are being thrown around right now I just say incidentally I just might make Pochettino can I tell you something though you say all that he's managers for all that negativity we said last 20 minutes of Spurs it's still a great job for somebody isn't it there'll be still somebody going get me in there and I can maybe work their magic It depends on what they want to do, Gal, like you say.

30:38Do they want to build something? The fans have been going bananas about the football in terms of what they're playing, so you normally know what a ball do. And a home record. You normally go for something. You think of Xavi, he won the league at Barcelona, he lost his job there. The Xerbies type of football. I feel for Thomas Frank simply because I thought that it would have been a good... The next step for him would be Tottenham and him do well. I thought that he would have brought that... That football what we talked about, you didn't know what you were going to get from him and he would confuse people and it'd be hard and it'd be hard to beat and that but you know he had a great way didn't he that'd be way hard to be so sorry you know the words we always have with people lads here and Jill it's like who's the right fit I think it has to be a certain personality maybe going to Spurs whoever that might be just because they've done well at Brentford it's always that argument can someone take the next step up but all these guys mentioned there they've all got pretty decent CVs but is that fit but do you not think bringing somebody in with kind of a connection to the club just to avoid this relegation battle and then reset you love a connection No, but I think it needs a bit of heart, doesn't it?

31:39They can get into that relegation. Or, like Gary, would you, like Roy said, get a manager now for long term? I think if they could get the Zerbe now, they'd get him, wouldn't they? I think Pochettino would be difficult because of the American World Cup being so important to America. I mean, the idea of being distracted, going into that World Cup for the US, is just, I can't see that happening. You know, I feel... Would he agree and then leave after the World Cup? Who would do it now, though? But the worry for all that, again, And I repeat myself, there's too much at stake for Spurs. It's not as if they're mid-table and throw them all the torms.

32:07You go, listen, just see the season out. I think it's Xavier or Marco Silva. Roy, the first time I ever heard a team are too good to go down was the Forest team with Brian Clough. That was the first time I ever heard that in my life. Do you remember that narrative during that season when Brian Clough's the manager, one of the greats of all time? And you were in that dressing room. What was that like in terms of that feeling of being in a dressing room where people are saying you're too good to go down? Could you smell it? No, I don't think we were kind of saying it too much. No, no, you weren't saying it.

32:35We didn't have a goal scorer and there were injuries. No, no, no, it's not good. No, but then in free fall, we got no momentum, couldn't score goals, and we were near the bottom. Yeah, it's hard to get out of it. And Spurs could be in that. Spurs got much better players than what we had at Forest. We had some good players at Forest, yeah. We'll see the character. Thanks for bringing that up, yeah, Jesus. Is that the big test of characters? They're looking like They're close to it now We didn't have a goal Score obviously Yeah but they're close To it now to Spurs You'll find out What these players are about now Because they're going to have To be seen It was this morning It was mentioned That basically This idea you're too good To go down The only argument to that Is there is Three or four other Really bad teams You're thinking For Spurs You still think Yeah Spurs could go Don't you look at the points And the league There's one position Available isn't he Right And you'd like to think Are they better Than the other two or three West Ham have found A little bit of something I think Spurs are And if somebody comes in I think West Ham and Forest might be okay.

33:28I think... West Ham only got nervous last night. They just got deeper and deeper and let that goal in. But, like, I'm telling you, West Ham are... But right... Look, a Forest change. Right, yeah. I mean, look, to be fair, I watched Leeds twice in, I think it was, like, late November or December, and thought they could be okay. They changed that week that I watched them. Similarly, when I watched West Ham at Chelsea in that first half, and then watched them last night, I thought they could be okay because the guys up front aren't bad. Somerville, Bowen, Castiglianos and Pablo, They're a handful, by the way.

33:56I think the lads mentioned, if any of them are going, I think they'll get a grip of Spurs in terms of going down. Yeah. I'm not saying they'll win seven, eight games on the spin, but they should have enough to spin. If you're a team, you're looking forward to playing Spurs at the moment. Not if a new guy comes in, right? National. This is what I'm saying. Hopefully the manager don't come in. You'll clip that off. I tell you what. The thing is, the North London derby next for them, it's perfect for if they get the right guy in. It would give the whole place a lift. Are you worried about the home game?

34:26What was the score on that? I don't know. It was a three, was it? No, I think it was four, wasn't it? It was a four. Well, it was like Carrick coming in at United, wasn't he? And then he's playing City. Like, it's a great opportunity to get fans on board straight away, isn't it? I just had a feeling that if they're going to do it, are they going to do it if he lost the North London derby after he's had 12 days or, you know what I mean? They've got to move now and they've done it. They've done it. They've moved. Let's see how they go. Final question on it. Right decision or wrong decision? I think in the current climate, you have to probably say it was the right decision for them, for the club and what the club need right now, because it feels like it's in free-fault.

35:01They're too close for comfort. They had to act. Yeah, I think it was the right decision. But I think it was right for Thomas Frank as well. I think for a long time I've been watching him. He doesn't look comfortable. Oh, man, he just... He doesn't look comfortable in press conferences and it's almost, you can see, bags under his eyes. You know what I mean? The thing is, he's always had that kind of mad professory kind of vibe. He's got this jittery kind of like... So he looks even worse when he's under pressure. He looks like he's out of control, but he's probably not. Feel for him. I stick to managers having more time.

35:30I think I always say it. I don't think they get enough time. We don't know that. That's the game. But then we're talking about a club. Spurs' farm last year was poor as well. As if he's gone in, he's just obviously not been able to get it going. But he's still a brilliant manager. I'm sure he'd bonks back. I don't think clubs can afford to take a chance anymore. I just think the money's become so... The idea that Spurs could get dragged into a relegation zone and potentially go down would be catastrophic, and I think they just can't take that risk anymore. That's exactly right. They might pay Thomas Frank, I don't know, five, ten, twelve million quid, but they'd lose 150 if they went down.

36:05It's like massive loss. But what happened? I know, but why panic? People say that, but then sometimes the payout for... You hope they give it to him, because normally they drag it out for like 20 years or something to pay, but people think, oh, he's left with 12 million. It's taken him 50 years to get it. I think that's important for a manager to negotiate that on the way in, right? Of course. To be fair. That'll be the main thing he's negotiating. One thing a club I would say about that is, what you don't want to do, and I know this from experience, what you don't want to do, he's come in, he's not done what he said he would do, which is get Tottenham into probably the top six, right?

36:38So do you want to reward failure as an owner? There's got to be a consequence of poor results for a manager as well. So I'm putting the sort of devil's advocate thing, but I feel sorry. Not after 20-odd games. No, but I feel really sorry for Thomas Frank right now. I do. I think it's awful but if you're Tottenham and you're sat fourth from bottom fifth from bottom in the Premier League and you spent £140 million in the summer and you're thinking you're expecting better you don't also want to be rewarding failure for basically sort of not achieving things so you know it's rumoured that Amerim walks away with£10 million other managers walk away with£10 million you can't say that to me I have some sympathy for a club in some ways because when the manager comes in by the way he's telling them he's going to get his team to deliver but 20 odd games then I get it that's not the odd case I know but if you if you ask Thomas Frank on the way in will you ever be fifth from bottom in the league he'll say no no I'll have them in the top half of the table so there's an element of you just said top six a few minutes ago there's no way I think he went in there and said I'll get us in the top six in the next year I'd be shocked if he said that within Europa League Roy they spent quite a bit of money in the summer there'll be an expectation to get into the top five but the form last year in the league was poor and their home record has been poor so it takes time to if they were eight now or ninth they wouldn't be sacked so they're 16 they've won 2 in 17 so look I'm presenting a different argument because actually I feel for Thomas Frank right now it's a bit like the answer situation what if he says he could be arguing the league form's not great but I still think we can win a trophy that might have been his point I don't think he was sitting there last summer saying I'm going to eat at the top 6 but he's thinking listen I'll steady a ship and try and build something and have a project so I was there a week last Sunday at Tottenham against City and at half time I think I had to text I said he will be gone by tomorrow lunch time I think I put that on the group yeah yeah because the feeling in the ground I'd never seen Tottenham so low it was like it was gone was it empty seats then yeah I didn't think they were going to come out for the second half but actually Tottenham scored like five minutes after the second half and did well in the second half and they came out and they actually stayed in filled up again they were almost all in the bars so they had left No, but Roy, to be fair, I said on the group, my feeling was at that moment, he'll be gone by tomorrow lunchtime.

38:54Actually, the fact he came back in that game has probably prolonged his stay for a week or so. But I felt like it was something ending. You just felt like that. You smell it, you feel it. Do you think if they'd lost that game, he would have gone? If they'd lost that game, do you think it would have been gone the next day? If City had gone on to do what they should have done in the second half, which was score a third and a fourth, then I think he'd been gone the next day. Do you think they'd sack him after City? It wasn't that right. It was the feeling. It's sometimes just a feeling. I think I've said this about Louis Van Gaal.

39:19I got sacked by Valencia, came home, watched a game at United and there was Crystal Palace on a Tuesday night at home and there was like 50-odd thousand people in the stadium and they said it was 70-odd, but it wasn't. And the stadium was empty, the football was really bad and I thought he's getting sacked very quickly. He was sacked within a week or so. You just feel it at a big club sometimes when a manager is just not going to survive. The eerie, almost like graveyard-type atmosphere that exists and that's what happened at Tottenham. They're just there, aren't they? they're just there because that's what they do they're in the routine they're watching but they're actually just like that they're not participating yeah they're vacant and I think the fans have become vacant in this last few weeks I know but I go back to it it's still not right for a manager to get 20 out of the game I don't care especially if he's built up a Brentford as well he's built a nice little red from himself it would have been a good move you don't know how it hasn't worked but what do you find at Brentford Brentford for how well they've done the last few years sorry you know Thomas Frank when he was at Brentford he'd lose 5 or 6 games and nobody would say that Then he could win three or four, but at Spurs with obviously different headlines, different expectations.

40:18Maybe deep down when you don't get that record going to home, you don't get a good start. The fans, it's hard to get them back on side. Well, we're going to be letting a secret out of the hat here a little bit, aren't we? Because we filmed two records in one day, but I've just had a thing in me here. Our guest this week is Ange Postacoglu. He's just pulled out. No. No, he was supposed to come on, obviously, later to go on for next week, but because of what's just happened, he's happy to come in here and have a chat about the situation at Tottenham. So should we get him in, then? This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

41:00And in you come, and in you come. Mid-flow. Got timing, and. Got timing, eh? How are you? Good to see you, Arnie. You too, Arnie. Good to see you. Arnie, good to see you. Hi, Andy. Wow. You're all right. Nice to see you. Hey, mate. Good, mate. Hey, mate. Yeah, good about you. Good. Thank you. That was a good time. Yeah. How are you, Andrews? I'm all right. I'm all right. Wow. Yeah, I know. I was driving up and I got a message. Yeah. Was he from the Tottenham board, was he? No. I mean, look, Andrews, I think the first question... I tell you, it'd be great. Thank you, bud. The first question really is obviously about Thomas Frank.

41:40you'll have managed against him. You've spoke to him probably a few times, many times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts in terms of your initial thoughts? Look, it's always, having been in that position now twice in the last sort of six months, it's tough. It's tough. And you know that he can't be the only issue at the club, right? And that's probably for every manager, but ultimately that's what we get judged on. But, you know, it goes back to me. it's a curious club Tottenham you know it's made a major pivot at the end of last year not just with me but with Daniel leaving as well and you've created this whole sort of environment of uncertainty because there's no guarantees it doesn't matter which manager you bring in I mean they've had world class managers there they haven't had success and for what reason you know what was the reason for such a major pivot so Thomas is walking in and what's his, you know, what's his objective?

42:43What's the club's objective? I mean, at the start of the year they sort of said compete on all fronts. Well, the club hasn't competed on all fronts for a very long time. And you're also, you know, the most influential person at the club for the last 20 years is also going. So if you're going to do such a major pivot, then you've got to understand there's going to be some instability there. Now, did Thomas know he was walking into that? I don't know. And it's a fair departure for me. I mean, anyone who kind of studies the game will know that it wasn't like it was a progression for me. I built that sort of squad for want of a better term to play a certain way over the last couple of years.

43:24And he's sort of coming in. And like I said, there's always... So it's a curious club type of, mate. It's, yeah. What do you mean by curious, Angie, in the sense that we've just discussed it before. We've talked about yourself, you know, Conte, Mourinho, Pochettino, Nuno, Thomas Frank now. There is an absolute sort of convoy of managers with great reputations who have walked into that football club and can't about-turn the... Only one won something, though. LAUGHTER But my point is that everybody's deemed to have failed in their positions. What is that culture mentality? What is that? What is that that exists there that means it's difficult to succeed?

44:11You look at that list of names and there isn't really a common thread through there as to what they're trying to do. And I do think part of Tottenham's DNA, for want of a better word, is they do like their team to play a certain way. And I think it's fair to say with Maurizio, they were going down that path. Although, you know, at the same time, I think people have been too dismissive of Harry's influence through that period. He's an unbelievable player. If I had Harry the last two years, that first year we finished fifth. I'm convinced we would have finished in Champions League spots. So even him leaving, you can't plug that hole.

44:47It's just impossible. So when you look at those managers, like I said, they've gone from Maurizio who played a certain way and sort of, I think, fit the DNA. Then the big thing was, well, they haven't won anything. We need winners. So let's go for, you know, Jose. Jose gets him to a cup final and they sack him the week before the cup. So you're going, if you're talking about winners, well, in a one-off game, I wouldn't mind Jose being my manager at my club just for a one-off game. What happens beyond that is, and then, you know, then it was Antonio because, again, he's another winner, you know, and then Antonio goes and I sort of come in and say, well, we want the football, you know.

45:25With Antonio, we made Champions League but we didn't have the football. So we want the football and you've got the football, even though my DNA is I'll win as well. So then we go down that path. So that's what I mean. It's a real curious in terms of understanding what are they trying to build? What are they? Obviously they've built an unbelievable stadium, unbelievable training facilities. But when you look at the expenditure, particularly in their wages structure, they're not a big club. I saw that because when we were trying to sign players, we weren't in the market for those players. Not a big club in terms of the wages that they pay.

46:03Because the money, the transfer fees, not the biggest thing. Yeah, they're always there. But there's a cap is there on wages that won't be broken. There's certain players that we... I mean, at the end of my first year when we finished fifth, for me, OK, how do you go from fifth to really challenging? Well, we had to sign Premier League ready players. But finishing fifth that year didn't get us Champions League. We didn't have the money. So we ended up signing Dom Solanke, who was absolutely, I was really keen on him. I really like him. And three teenagers. You know, I was looking at Pedro Neto and Buermo and Semenya at the time, Mark Yehi, because I said, if we're going to go from fifth to there, that's what the other big clubs would do in that moment.

46:51And those three teenagers are outstanding young players. And I think they'll be great players for Tottenham, but they're not going to get you from fifth to fourth and third. But what was coming out from the club was that, no, we're a club that can compete on all fronts. So when you say, curious, you've obviously got great experience as a manager, manager all over the world at certain clubs. Is Tottenham different to those other clubs in terms of getting what you want onto the pitch or looking to take the club forward? Well, they're all unique, they're all different, But, you know, when you walk into Tottenham, what you see everywhere is to dare is to do.

47:29It's everywhere. And yet their actions are almost the antithesis of that. Right. In terms of they... And, you know, whether you like or dislike them, you give credit to Daniel because that path has gone to a new stadium, new facilities by taking a safe path. I think what they didn't realise is that to actually win, you've got to take some risks. At some point, you've got to be... And that's the DNA of the club. Who's not taking the risks, Ange? Daniel or the buff Daniel? I never got that high up, mate. I don't know. I never had these conversations. I never really spent a lot of time with Daniel.

48:12I think he liked to keep his distance from his managers anyway. I think maybe apart from Mauricio, you know, no other manager really got close to him. So I didn't spend a lot of time to say, well, is this a club policy? Because obviously he's not the majority shareholder. So I don't know. When the frustrations came out, you didn't have anyone to say what's happened? No. And the one thing I thought to myself, Rydie, when I took the job is, I go, I've got to be, I remember telling my wife this, I go, you pull me up whenever it happens. But I had to make sure my frustrations didn't come out publicly because I'd seen Antonio come out, Jose, even Maurizio towards the end and it didn't end well, right?

48:51So I'm going to be really disciplined here and not say – and maybe that does the club a disservice because if I express my frustration but I felt that that doesn't get you anywhere at that time. It didn't. And, you know, again, I don't think Daniel liked that sort of laundry to be sort of put out in public. And you've got to respect that. And I say, yeah, my frustrations were tough. Yeah, yeah. Did you feel like you had the freedom to play football your way or did you feel like, say, if you were getting beat, were people challenging you on your style of play? Yeah, but that never worried me, Joel, because that's kind of been a constant in my career.

49:29You know, it's never been always smooth and I've never let that affect what I was trying to do because I think that's my job, right? So irrespective of what everyone else is telling me about how I suppose, yeah, but I'm the manager. You've employed me to be the manager, so I'm going to make the decisions. In the end, I'll take the responsibility. So I never felt... And I just felt that's the way Tottenham should go. So I kind of... I mean, even last year, I know we... And by the way, we were never in a relegation battle last year. We never got even close. I mean, we finished 13 points off relegation.

50:02But even when we were sort of towards the back end of the year where it was quite obvious we were going for something else, we still scored 64 goals last year. I was still trying to get the guys. but we weren't equipped to do it. But I still felt that was the way forward. I said, if we're ever going to become the team that I thought Tottenham wanted to be, then this was the path. So, you know, and in the end, I have to do that. I think every manager, I think any manager who says, oh, I want to play this way, but they won't let me, that's a cop out. You're the manager, you do it the way you want to.

50:31Andrew, is there a discrepancy between what they say to you on the way in and what they promise in respect of the wages and the cap? Because we were talking about this before. Would they explain that we've got a salary cap, that this is the restrictions and we can't go and get these players on the way in so that you know and you expect them maybe to change when you finish fifth? Or is it a case of they actually, to be fair, say, no, we're going to invest in it and we're going to sort of... How does that work? Yeah, look, again, not deep discussions on that, but it's not so much what they tell you.

50:58It's what goes out publicly. And I still felt like, you know, Tottenham as a club was saying we're one of the big boys. and the reality is I don't think they are in terms of my experience over the last two years. Of how they act. Yeah. And, you know, when Arsenal need players, they'll spend$100 million on Declan Rice. I don't see Tottenham doing that. Ever. No. Maybe now, I don't know. But not just my history, even predating me. And, you know, and again, a lot of that was, okay, they were building a stadium, so obviously finances were a challenge. I guess the bit I didn't realise was just how much Champions League football makes a difference and I think that's why there was always this desperation because that provided the kitty, you know, and you go, okay, well, so that means in my first year they finished eighth the year before.

51:59We've lost Harry two days before we played Brentford in the first game. I've got to try, mate. Now that, you know, I'm going... That's a tall order. Yeah, it's a tough one. We almost got there. We finished fifth. Any other year, that probably would have been... And if we did, maybe last year, we wouldn't have bought three teenagers. We might have. But I still don't think we would have spent... It's not the transfer fee, the wages to really attract. I mean, when was the last time Tottenham really signed somebody who you go, wow. Yeah. And they did... Gaza. Yeah. Yeah, back then, yeah, absolutely.

52:33Exactly. And you know what, Roy, they talk about that period and they weren't overly successful then, but they did win FA Cups. They did have exciting players. And I think the supporters, when I speak to them, they speak fondly of that era, even though they weren't playing maybe in the Champions League or winning the league because they did. They had those star players. And I think, like I said, I think people underestimate the role Harry played over the last 10 years. He's an unbelievable... I mean, I only worked with him for a couple of months. He's the best player I've ever sort of witnessed close-up in my whole career.

53:06And, all right, I mean, I haven't been at the highest level, but just watching him at training. Yeah. I mean, we played the last friendly game, like, before, and, you know, I was still hoping, against hope, he would stay. And he scored four goals. We played Shakhtar. And the next week we're playing Brentford, and I know he's not going to be there. So that masked, I think, a lot of things. But it's not like Harry leaves and then you go sign Erling Haaland. that doesn't happen Andrew we were talking before and you were talking about sort of the board's ambition and wages and different things but we're going back our own experience in football probably going back probably 40 years to when Spurs were probably last successful in the early 80s UEFA Cup and FA Cups if you take almost the board out is there a mentality and almost like a feeling I look from the outside that no one actually believes Tottenham can win or go and win a big game not so much a big game No, no.

53:58A big Trump beat. It is. Look, Spursy. You Spursy. I mean, that's what it was all about. Is that a thing? You're inside the building. There's players when they're coming in. Is there almost a lack of belief that you can go and do something? A hundred percent there is. Yeah, absolutely. And that was the thing I was trying to break. And, you know, my whole statement about winning things in the second year was I was trying to – I was doing that for the club because no one internally would dare say that because they were just scared. They'd been close a few times and, oh, no, forget there. Even I remember the day of the Europa final.

54:28And by that stage, the players were brilliant, you know, and I knew we'd win that day. You know, I was just convinced the path we'd taken and everyone in the sort of hotel was really calm. And I remember it was one of the few times actually Daniel came in and we had a coffee in the morning and he said, everyone's really relaxed. Even he was, and the only thing he said to me, which was bizarre as a motivational point, he goes, he said something like, oh, you know what? I've been in seven finals and semi-finals and we haven't won one. That's a good thing. Go on. That's going to happen. But I know why he said that, because of that.

55:05So that's what I'm saying, Jamie, right? So you've got that and that does exist, absolutely. And I think, and then you break that by winning something and what do you do? You tear it all up and you go again. Like we had the Super Cup final and I'll back myself to win that. we've got to have two trophies in the space of two months and then all of a sudden that's out the window that they can't win a big game. You've done that. You've broken that. So that's what I mean. That's the curiosity in me of understanding why. And it's not because it's me because at the end of the day I've done what I've done.

55:36I was there for two years. But what are you trying to achieve? The biggest thing you had hanging over you was this Spurs-y tag. And I'm sure you all thought, you know what, come the final man, United will win because they just know how to win. Exactly. I said that before the final, and obviously credit to yourself and the players. I think we said on this show, even when Man United are really struggling in the last few years, they still managed to get over the line in the beginning. They beat Man City in the FA Cup final. I just couldn't see how Tottenham could win a big game because of that mentality I've got of Tottenham, that Man United will just turn up and even though they're not a great team, they just have that aura of where Man United, we're supposed to win things.

56:16Yeah, and that existed. I mean, there isn't a Tottenham supporter that I see now that doesn't want to hug me. Not because, yeah, OK, we won, but because they just never thought it would happen. They just never thought, you know, because they've, like I said, they've been close so many times. They had world-class managers, world-class players. You know, they've made finals, semifinals, and yet, OK, how, and it was, look, to be honest, the reason I was convinced we'd win was because that's what I sold to the players. Yeah. I said to them, you know, I think I've said the story where outside the Tottenham dressing room at the home ground, there's all the photos, but it's only of the teams that have won things.

56:54And I walked them through that and I just said, have a look at those walls. What do you notice? I said, most of them are in black and white because that's how long ago. And I go, who's not on these walls? I said, Harry's not on these walls. I said, Sonny, isn't it? Sonny, I go, Sonny, you're not on these walls. Only one way we get on these walls, boys. So that was a big driving force for me that I kind of used it as... That's why I was convinced, get to the final, that we would win because I think when it got tough and it was going to get tough, I think we had more to win than Man U on the night.

57:28I said, Man U, they've always got something to lean on, a crutch of success. This was a chance for this group of players and that's the story. I sold them, well, mate, you guys got a chance to elevate yourself above all the other players that have come in the last sort of 40 years. How did you feel yourself going into that game in terms of your job? Did you feel like it was on the line, even though you were preparing for this massive game? Yeah, I knew I was gone. Really? Yeah, I knew I was gone probably around, I think the end of January, early February, I knew I was gone. And I said to the coaches, I said, look, it's quite obvious.

58:04At the time, I said, we weren't in a relegation. We were, I think, 16 points away from relegation. I said, look, we're in the quarterfinals of the Europa League. I think we can win it. I said, and that means not just winning a trophy, but that also means Champions League football. I said, but the reality is get your helmets on because every week we're going to be copping it. I said, but I'll take that. Don't worry, I'll take the responsibility for that. But also, if we get knocked out of any stage of the Europa League, I said, I'm pretty much sure it's over. So I knew it was gone because you get a sense of that with the conversations you have about people.

58:36no one was talking to me about the transfer window or pre-season next year. So you kind of know. And that was fine. I didn't understand it, but I'm thinking, you know what? Again, I didn't want to get distracted. I was so laser-focused. Even for myself, it's taken me 30 years to get here. What a unique opportunity to win a European trophy at a club that hasn't had success for such a long time. I know I'll remember it. So I wasn't going to let that distract me, but yeah, I knew I was going. Ange, thank you very much for coming on this week. and we'll see you next week. Or just throw it back to London, you know?

59:16The Golden Game is taking over Super 6 this February, which means the jackpot will double this weekend if Aston Villa beat Newcastle from£250 ,000 to£500 ,000. It's completely free to play. Just predict six scores this weekend and the money could be yours. 18 plus, TNCs apply.

59:41We did well. Did we? I checked, yes. Well... Jill, let's be a surprise. Right, last week, Gary and Jamie, nine points. Oh! It's over. Not bad. Nine points. You're... Very good. 86. Nowhere we're beaten. No chance. Nowhere we've beaten. Jill Roy, Ian, 11 points. Yes! Yes, Jill, you're right. Speaking from tank. Nice. You knew that? Yes, 10 points. You know something? You were top 22 % of players. You beat 640 ,000 players. We beat 640 ,000. So there you go. Someone got 27 points, though, which is pretty impressive. I like it. 76, 86 points. I bet you I got them 11. It's FA Cup round, isn't it? This is where the real students of the game come out.

1:00:27So here we go. Sulford. Look at Sulford. You've got insight. I'd say... You know, Jill's walking there. She's got insight. Gary? Didn't they beat him the last time, was it? 8-0. 8-0. I'll go 9. No, let them... No, I won't. Not for Carl. No, no. My mate... Go ahead, Gary. You go first. Jamie, you go first. Let them go first. I'll go 4-0. 4-1. Do you want to go? Who do? I'd love 4-5. 1. 4-1. 4-1. 4-1. I wouldn't say it against my own team. 4-1, yeah. I would say you do it, Jamie. What owner would ever do that? I would never do that. Yeah, ask one. If Salford rested, would he go... Honestly, we won't mess around.

1:01:03No, Carl won't mess around. What an opportunity, though. They're in a much better situation than last time. I think 5-6 now. I think 5-6. 6-0. 6-0. No, I think Salford will be well-oiled. OK, so what do you say? Well, what do you think? What do you think, Jill? What do you think? 6-4. No, I would have said less, but go on. Go on, no, say what you can say then. Say what you think. I would have said, like, 3-0. To who? City. To who? it was nine last year I know but they're in a much better position I think 10 or 11 against Exeter 10-1 against Exeter 10-1 6-0 6-0 Carl Robinson I still love Carl Robinson what about Southampton last night Southampton versus Leicester came back and won 4-3 I just kept seeing another goal I was like whoa is that Southampton versus Leicester that that is indeed You can't go against Southampton.

1:02:00Oh, my God. Come on. Wow. Family before football. It's a blockbuster. It's a fight. It's a massive fight. Clean sheet, my future son-in-law's centre-half, so they'll keep... Right, bring him on here one week. He's a lovely guy. No, just talk about being a young player through an academy. Yeah, of course, I'd say it to him, yeah. Yeah. Right, so clean sheet. Oh, so I'll go, sorry. Say that lesson, let's go three against them. No, no, I think Leicester was... They scored three against them last night. Different game, though. 3-2. Southampton. No, it'll be totally the opposite. 2-1. I'm going to think you've got 2-1.

1:02:372-1 Southampton. 2-1 Southampton. Nice one, Roy. What are you saying, James? 2-0, didn't you? 2-0. 2-0. Southampton? Ridiculous. Yeah, Southampton. Absolutely. Leicester won't score. Right, Aston Villa versus Newcastle. This is Super 6's golden game. Super 6 are doubling the jackpot if Villa beat Newcastle this weekend. so let's give double points for this game I think so you're off this week you're off are you going away anywhere you got a trip double points three days though yeah are you going skiing three days you love a trip away I'm telling you I'm not living are you watching the winter Olympics whoever gets this we double it up winter on I think they're always skiing me and you what did we do yesterday we had a coffee yeah we had a coffee yeah is it straight to penalties or is it extra time than penalties we passed the one ago I treated Jules to lunch.

1:03:25Oh, no, you did. She invites me, but... OK, 2-1. Do I have to go for lunch? 2-1 Villa. We actually shared... 2-1 Villa. Oh, that's a safe one, that. And Newcastle. That's what it does. Anyone who does 2-1 is safe. I think Newcastle are going to get something. They looked a bit better. More of a gambler. Yes. There was a bit of energy problem last night. This is a tough one, isn't it? Villa. When it's Spurs. That one where you watch that game for the first half and then put my new one. He's a flick Yeah that was it though No I think Philip I think I'm not sure he's Obsessed with the FA Cup I think he I think he needs A trouble We need to do something No I can check We need to catch Shall we go Newcastle Newcastle 2-1 OK You know something You suck us into that one Liverpool Liverpool Brighton Liverpool Brighton Liverpool always beat Brighton at home Surely It was 2-0 in the league Yeah Liverpool Is there a go?

1:04:20I think this might just be A flat game So this is Saturday. What was it? What did you say? It's going to be a flat game. No, I think you're really excited. Liverpool. Yeah, it's going to be one of those where Liverpool just... I think 2-1 Liverpool. You're doing 2-1 for everything. That's all right. If he's right, it's fine. Look, we've got 2-1 for everything. 2-0. I don't think... I'll give Brighton a goal. 2-1. Brighton will score. Danny Welber will score. I'm going to go 1-0. I think the game will be a bit flat. We're both playing Wednesday night. I can't wait to get that out. This is Saturday night.

1:04:55Stoke Fulham. Don't worry about the midweek game. We play the game in front of you. Stoke Fulham. Stoke Fulham. Stoke Fulham at home. Full stadium. I fancy Fulham. Fulham have got some lively players. Harry Wilson. 2-1. 2-1. Harry Wilson. I think Harry's... 2-1. It doesn't matter to him. No, we can't. We need to do different. 2-0. Yeah, 2-0 to Fulham. 2-0 to Fulham. The centre-backs are out for Fulham, aren't they? they've got a game three weeks later Arsenal Wigan oh clean sheet from Wigan no he's not playing is he not playing oh he's going to wait he's giving it a few more days is he fair though he lost 6-0 6-1 6-1 it was if he's available the following week I won't be happy I think that's telling him he has to take another two weeks off Arsenal Wigan I think obviously he's going to want to play against Arsenal I think 4-0 to Wigan he's been injured on season 4-0 Arsenal wait a minute wait a minute Yeah, go on.

1:05:50It's your gig. Are you going? I'm going to go 4-0. Are you going to the match? Are you away? No, I'm away. I'm going to go 4-1. Is everybody away next week? 3-1, I'm going to go. I'm in Dublin doing some charity. Thank you so much. Super six. Bye, dear. He's doing a Sky Advert every week. You must be minted off them Sky Advert. Must be minted. Oh, my God. I see them every minute. Lorded. Charity.

1:06:16So this morning I was sat there and I was thinking, It was off the back of the United game last night. Sesko scored an absolutely incredible goal. And I was thinking about, actually, at the start of the season, we had these, what would be, unproven strikers coming into the league that were quite big money. I'll list them all out to you. So, Verts, Eketike, Sesko, Embermo. Obviously, Embermo's more of a thing. Dilap, João Pedro, Jocares. All these strikers we talked about at the start of the season. And we're now probably just over halfway through. and I was thinking about Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, United all needed a centre forward and there was nothing perfect out there for any of them really in the market, was there?

1:06:55And they were all sort of deliberating should we go Cesc, should we go Jokeres should we go De Lape United tried to get De Lape So basically, this so far Eketike, we're going to have a game of hit, miss or maybe and this is just so far Hit, miss or maybe, OK Eketike scored 10 Premier League goals 2 assists in 22 games 6 as a sub I think we'd all pretty much... I'm saying that, but he's been a hit so far. At the start of the season, I said that basically, you said he'd be a hit, Ian. I said eventually, but not straight away. And I was wrong. He's been a hit straight away. Thank you very much, Gary.

1:07:31Florian Verts, four Premier League goals, two assists in 24 games. Has he been a hit so far? A miss or a maybe? I think he's in the middle. He's a maybe. He's definitely improved. Maybe, yeah. He does some good stuff. I still think it'll take him a full season to get up to speed. He'll be like next year. Remember Modric and all these boys took time to settle in at Spurs, get used to the physicality. He's getting better. He just needs a bit of time. He's hitting. He's the one player. Modric years ago, I could not see how he was going to become a top player. Did you see that? I was working at Tottenham and you see him do stuff, you think, this guy's really good.

1:08:07Bam, he goes to Real Madrid. He does defy logic though, Modric. He does. In terms of his physical appearance, you think, that can't run a football match. especially the position he played but he ended up having a career playing in the middle of the path yeah a bit like Bernardo Silva he does sometimes a bit like that right third one Jokerez we all said at the start of the season that he was going to be a hit I think Ian you said that between I think you said 15 goals I didn't say I said between 10 and 12 why are you lying he could get 10 12 that's not a big guy what's he on and he takes he scored 8 goals 8 Premier League goals so far I'm alright with 13, 14 games to go has it hit miss or maybe maybe I'm maybe yeah maybe I'm going to say he's doing what he's supposed to do with Arsenal I think a hit maybe by the end of the season the goals he'll get fingers crossed maybe no I'm going to give him a hit I'm going to say a hit you're less convinced than him about him yeah because like you're a striker for Arsenal yeah but he's giving more expectations he's playing a mind game no no he only said 10 to 12 goals that's what I'm saying he's giving him a lot No, but he's on track for that, and he's saying maybe.

1:09:14Of course, he's going to be on track for 10 goals for Arsenal. But my point is, he's saying maybe, and he's going to be on track for what he said he would do. Yeah, because if we're going to judge him by goals, you could probably say, yeah. What do you judge the striker by? Judging by everything what he's bringing to do. What do you judge the striker by? Goals. Ian Rush, all these, yeah. Right, goals. But what I'm saying is, up to this point, you know, the goals he's scored and the goals he's scored, the goals he's scored. You don't have the best performance levels, are you? At the moment, not really, no.

1:09:38Were you bad about yours if you scored goals? yeah you were bothered about your whole link up play yeah you would yeah because like as it went on I realised how important it is the link up when you lose the ball but if you're in your first season at a club like your first game at Arsenal when you're learning your game you're thinking I've got to put the ball on the back of the net the link up play will come the next year or two when I get used to my teammates around me yeah but I did that at Arsenal I didn't have to worry about the link up because I did score the ball you told me your first year you were George Graham's giving out you every day of the week you know what I mean I'm just like He's just somebody that I think that, as long as we can finish it off, next year will come stronger because he knows what he's doing.

1:10:11So you may be? I may be, yeah. Liam De Lappe. Liam De Lappe, we all said at the start of the season, we weren't sure how he would do, I think. He's got one goal in 17 appearances. Obviously, he was injured for a period as well. Eight of them as a son. Sorry, he played right wing. Yeah, that wasn't... When he put him in right wing, that game against Arsenal, I was like, oh my God, that's never going to work. You're never going to score a goal while he's there. but you can maybe make it more difficult for Arsenal and they did that for a he's got at the moment he's obviously lacking confidence and he lacks real quality doesn't he he came on in a game he's only a young kid he's got a real handful in a game I watched a handful's not enough it was a bad move you're not lucky Jay?

1:10:54no to Chelsea I just think young players when they're on a journey getting better this idea the jump for me from Ipswich to Chelsea's too big you need something in the middle Everton or something playing centre forward forever every game and no one, even if you have a few bad games or you're injured, you're going to play again. He's never sure if he's going to play a chess, even if he starts. You are very good, you. Sometimes the jump is too big. You need that little bit in the middle. You're right. Yeah, we're not right in the kid. He's only young. He's been a miss. He's a miss, isn't he? Okay.

1:11:23Next one, Brian Embermo. At the start of the season, everyone said that he would be a hit. He's got nine Premier League goals, two assists, 21 games. I think he's brilliant. Yeah, he's a hit. He's so physical, isn't he? Like, powerful. You know, Ange saying that he would have took him. Yeah. You know what I mean? He always looked dangerous in him. Every manager would have took him, Ian. Yeah, would have took him. I would have took Messi to Ipswich. When I hear these managers going, I was interested in that player, were you? No, we are. It's just that he's... Jesus. He really... I know, but... He really has continued...

1:11:50We know Ange's got to come back on for a bit. I know, Ange. I just told me Ange's manager go, I was interested. I thought Harry Cambridge was going to be a good player. You don't want to say it, do you? Wow. Do you have to ask me a question? Now, if you think about it with Umbermo, he had to, to be fair, probably for Chelsea, probably for Arsenal, he'd have been better for those clubs than the ones they've ended up with. I think João Pedro's done quite well. I think Umbermo for Arsenal would have been a sensation, wouldn't he? When you see how he plays you out, absolutely. He's a good signing for United.

1:12:17I think he's a solid one. I like him a lot. He's not as old as he thinks. It's the same with someone like Semenya. You see Semenya and you think to yourself, you could see him at hours. You could see him way more hours as well. Just sign everybody Just sign everyone This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing OK Shesko start of the season Roy, Jill write it and Jamie said not sure he scored six is it six Premier League goals or it's seven now after last night Ask Copilot Look who's going on How many goals Isn't it weird we praise strikers now for that When back in the day, the lads were getting 20, 20 goals.

1:13:00That's what I said. That thing about, like, saying, oh, 10 goals and not getting happy with 10 goals. If someone's class 70 or 80 and take penalties. I'd be disappointed if I didn't have that by the end of, like, remember. Of course you would, Ian. How many goals of Cesco scored in the Eiffel? Midfield target would be 10. He scored six, right. So, I'm going to say maybe. Yeah, of course, he's a maybe at the moment. There's a confusion for me in the sense that sometimes his performances look, like he looks very scruffy when balls get played into him but the two goals he scored against Fulham and last night they're serious goals that goal last night is a serious goal it's a beautiful goal and I was saying it to Roy but Roy's saying he's meant to score it's the way the boy came across and he just guided it in why do you only talk to Rady about strikers go on then tell me what you felt like it was a nice finish sorry but isn't that what he's supposed to do if you know what I mean he's coming off the bench you're chasing the game and he's scoring a goal on everyone United expectations You're like Ryanair.

1:13:57If a flight's on time, everyone's fucking laughing and joking, but usually you're going to be two hours late. And then everyone thinks that's the norm. Yeah, but we know that... Oh, my God. I'm flying on Ryanair to come out. I flew with Ryanair Sunday, two hours late. No one was even arguing because this is what we expect. It's like, you've low expectations. No, the finish was good enough for you to notice. That's all it is. Yes, it is his job. Of course it is. But he made it look easy the way he'd done it. It was a bloody... It's because of Ryanair. And you know when you land, and they play the music.

1:14:28Cesco and United what are you supposed to do do you get a music right I'm going to object to that a little bit because nothing's going to be right now go on but Cesco right that goal he scored last night ordinarily and we all watch a lot of football matches I would see that goal scored 1 in 25 from that position ahead of the near post I wouldn't see that taken that chance very often he'd either be saved or he'd miss past the near post because he guided it It wasn't like blasting That's because you've got Low expectations He's a striker I've seen the goal I think it's a lovely finish When you watch the way He's done it And the timing Everyone's getting carried Because it was an equaliser In injury But if you analyse Yeah that's what's I thought it was an exception It's an exception But he's doing that every week Okay It can't be a hit Okay Shesko Maybe Maybe Maybe But I think he will I think he will Can I say that I think he'll be a hit I think he'll be a hit You think No Now he's Now At the moment Now So maybe now Jokere says a maybe and he's got eight goals so of course he's going to be a maybe.

1:15:27This one, start of the season, Gary, Jill and... Jao Pedro, Gary, Jill and Ian said hit, Roy and Jamie weren't so sure. Jao Pedro scored ten goals, four assists in 26... It's a hit. I think he's a hit. He's a hit. I think he's very good. He did it, gal. What did you say? Them two need to get themselves going a bit. I said, what, maybe? You said basically you weren't sure. He weren't sure. He is a hit. That's fine. It's okay if you want to go. It's okay. Sometimes, yeah, they're gone. Is there a Ryanair analogy somewhere? Don't worry if you don't get it right. He's Erlingus. He's Erlingus. Jal Pedro's Erlingus.

1:16:00He was gutted. Sometimes you get things wrong in life. We get it right, Jill. Yeah, but sometimes how important these goals are. Yeah. It's true, it's true. Lads get goals, you're already 2-3-0 up. What are the big goals you got last night? Do you want to leave? Cess goals, come on. Chelsea are fifth. We're praising Chelsea. Chelsea and United, expectations are so low. they'll celebrate getting the top four or five. Sesco's. Sesco's last two have won three points, for fair. I am on about him. I think it was a brilliant point for United last night. Of course you're going to say that. You're a cheerleader for them.

1:16:32You and Jim Ratcliffe. Draw at West Ham. It's amazing. That's my point. There's no pressure on this United team. Because they played badly last night, I didn't think they played well. Do you know what I mean? Last night, they were deeper last night than they should have been. You know what I mean? The gaps were too big between the front and the back. I thought they didn't pass it quickly enough out of the back. First time I won six games, six games won they draw West Ham six and you're sitting there going you thought it was a good draw and that's fine if you see that success good luck to you what did you think last night when they scored later on you always say you take it all day get something out of the game I agree that's what I thought but not to be all giddy yeah but you can see you can see you just said oh good play West Ham just got deeper and deeper I'm saying who's that why do you think they got nervous it's a United team there's no expectation United no expectation righty do you know something this team can't imagine when they're under pressure and trying to win a league title.

1:17:21We see how good they are then. Yeah, that'd be different. Just quickly, just on West Ham last night. So, right. Seriously, West Ham, forget Manchester United for one second. West Ham last night, I was watching the game. They're late on. You see the chance just before Cesc goals, which is Zerksy's head as it goes past the post, right? And you watch those defenders drop to the edge of the six-yard box and actually Zerksy is probably two or three yards away from them. Like, he's on the penalty spot. Yeah, he came into it. Yeah. How can... How's that missing? To me, that was the easiest thing I felt as a defender in the last part of a game we literally would definitely shift up as far as we could there to leave that gap I see so many teams drop that extra three or four yards and then the Sesco goal and the Jerksy chance that doesn't happen but if they're not winning many games in the game they got a corner so I'm watching obviously desperate to West Ham so I'm thinking this is the 90th minute the seven had it done I thought it was too early to keep it in the corner so you put the corner then they got another one on the other side if you remember I think it was about 92 and they kept it short and then Manion needed to get a throw in.

1:18:18So you're thinking, lock them in as you would do. Yeah. Man to man. You don't let them out. They throw to the goalie and then the camera shot goes out, you know, so it's on the thrower. Then it goes big, the camera shot and you just see all the West Ham players just running back. The ball's there. They just don't run them back to the edge of the fucking box. Them screaming at the table. Where are you going? What the fuck? Where are you going? They just don't run on the fucking balls. They're so scared. They're just desperate to run. West Ham's gone 2-0 up. Oh, that Callum Wilson change of pace I was like wow they should have gone too long Yorl made two good challenges by the way in the last few minutes that was a good block two good blocks I thought I thought he'd left Callum Wilson isn't that what he's meant to do right I don't know but then when he went it was a good time we all have different expectations in life holidays, cars Yorl making tackles everyone gets carried away with somebody doing something amazing Gary's changed don't listen to me but it shows good team morale and that that they're getting them goals last minute to get a point it's easy when you're chasing a game girl no but I don't think Man United a few months ago wouldn't have scored that goal it's the Carrick effect would they have scored that goal a few months ago I don't think so the one thing that I to be fair become immensely frustrated with it's nothing to do with the game last night is that you see what would be a sort of quite mundane block or a clearance from a corner and there is four high fives from each player that is fucking bollocks that I'm sorry excuse my language I think Diaz did one last night Liverpool on Saturday, I think it was Liverpool, was it City?

1:19:46It was City, actually, on Saturday. Donnarumma, to be fair, has pulled them out, that Meyer a lot with punches. He's punched nearly ten balls out for them. And I can't remember who it was. Did a flick on it at the back post and did something. It was a good clearance, well done. And they've got a corner to defend and the high-fiving. And you've got a corner to defend. If I've got a corner to defend, I'm thinking, we're in trouble here a little bit. We need to be on, you know, what's going to happen? We could concede a goal. You're not high-fiving. And that's not old school, that, by the way. That is absolutely right.

1:20:13You cannot... If you're doing this and you've got a corner to defend, that is not right. When full-back, you know when a cross comes in and full-back's on us, you think he can clear it, but he gives a cheap corner away. And he turns on, he's like, no one's speaking to me. No one's supposed to speak to you. You're supposed to be aware of what's going on, don't you? Hey, no one's supposed to speak to me. Just to be fair, you used to snap, didn't you, if a player on the pitch was doing that talk to me? Just be aware of what's going on wrong, don't you? The other reason being is, to be fair, it's actually a good point.

1:20:41It's for the crowd, yeah. No one told me there was a man on it. That was Roy's point back in the day, because he used to say, if the crowd is singing, you won't hear me anyway. You can't hear anything on a football pitch if the crowd is singing or if there's a big atmosphere. So talking actually is irrelevant if people are 15, 20 yards away from you. But if the ball comes in at this angle, it goes, and they kind of kick it out that way. It's actually easier. I know it might be on your week. If I just kick it that way. That way, yeah. I didn't know who was behind me. Be aware who was behind you.

1:21:09Watch all players do that. No one told me. It's for the fans. That's for the fans. I had to make that decision, lads. I used to feel like some people that spoke on the football pitch were speaking more for them in their games sometimes. That can happen, Joe, of course. Yeah, it's just like goalkeepers and stuff like that. Yeah, for your concentration. Do you know something? There's one thing, Jill. I've just said about talking is a bit of a relevance on the football pitch, but it is quiet. I do think, to be fair, real to be fair to him was one of them, don't go quiet. Because if you go quiet as a defender...

1:21:38I wish you'd go quiet now.

1:21:43on that note we'll end

1:21:52thanks for listening and thanks to our partners Arm Clothing subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you won't miss an episode