These Founders Have a Formula for Hospitality Design That Drives ROI

0:00I'm Bri West. And I'm Jordan McDonough. And you're listening to Sweet Success.

0:09You've just checked in to Sweet Success. Join me, Katie Cline, for exclusive conversations with hotel executives, hospitality leaders, and industry innovators. Together, we'll uncover the strategies and techniques these masters of hospitality relentlessly refine. Whether you're already in the industry or just starting out, tune in every week to unlock the secret to your sweet success.

0:38Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Sweet Success. I'm your host, Katie Klein, and today I'm thrilled to welcome Brie West and Jordan McDonough to the show. Brie and Jordan are the co-founders of Summerled, a hospitality design firm whose strategy-led approach helps owners create investments, not just interiors. By combining market research, guest psychology, and intentional design, they've helped thousands of hospitality businesses create standout guest experiences that command higher nightly rates and stronger returns. Before launching Summerled, Brie built her career in marketing and real estate investing, developing the strategy-driven framework that now sits at the heart of the company's approach.

1:23Jordan brings the creative vision with a background in interior design and a passion for creating spaces that are every bit as functional as they are memorable. Together, they've built a company around the idea that great hospitality design isn't just about aesthetics, it's one of the most powerful business tools an owner has. Brie, Jordan, thank you both so much for joining me today. Hi, Katie. Thank you so much for having us on. Yeah, we're so excited to be having this conversation today with you. I'm so happy to have you guys. I'm a huge fangirl of Summerled. Every property that you guys design, I just drool over the photos.

2:01So I need to have a bit of the origin story, how you guys first met, and what you were each doing before you started Summerled together. I can kick us off here. So this came about so organically, truthfully, We didn't know we were starting a business until we were doing the business, but it all started with the origin story, what we were doing before Summerled. So I was working in the marketing industry and that was my passion. I love jumping into any brand and I loved the diversity of marketing where I could go from a supplement company to a clothing boutique and all the principles are the same.

2:39And it was like a new challenge and a new thing to tackle. But at the end of the day, like the practices were the same of understanding who your audience was really diving into like who you're selling to, how you can sell to them. The industry changes so much, like all these things that I loved about marketing. And then my, on the side, my husband and I were investing in long-term rentals. So we knew that we wanted to go down that path of real estate investing and we were doing a long-term rental thing. But then we stumbled upon a short-term rentals in about, you know, around 2020. So when we found, you know, the short-term rental industry, we just saw some people talking about it online.

3:17And I went to my husband and I was like, I think we can do this. Like we both have this entrepreneurship, you know, spirit to us. And this felt like something that was more, and it is more of like this active investing strategy. And so we were at the time in our lives where we really could dive in and invest a lot of our time and our energy into short-term rentals. So we did that. And I went to my husband and this is 2020. This was like before, you know, the really crazy Airbnbs. Like I think that was like a pivotal moment in the short term rental industry where things started to really like escalate and all this competition came in.

3:52But, you know, even in 2020, I went to my husband and I was like, this is a marketing strategy. Like we're no longer just like real estate investors investing in long term rentals. Like I want to create a brand with these properties. I want to design them for a specific audience. And he was like, OK, like I trust you on that end. So we started investing and we stayed local to where we lived in Utah. Now we don't invest in Utah. I love living here, but it's not the best investing state we've since ventured out. And it actually was that first venture out to a new state where Jordan came in. So Jordan and I have been good friends for a long time.

4:31I knew she was a great interior designer. Our husbands were actually freshmen in the dorms together. And then we connected once, you know, we're dating and married and doing like couples things. But we ventured out of Utah to Arizona. That was our first like, you know, vacation rental market where the competition really was hot. Even like five years ago, it was hot. So I came up with this marketing strategy. I looked at the competition. I was really excited about the brand that I was creating with a specific property in Phoenix, Arizona. but I was feeling stumped on the design because that's not my expertise.

5:07So I reached out to Jordan and I was like, is there any way like you could help me on the side? Like, please, if you don't want to like say no to anything, she was busy. Um, but I asked her and she was like, yes, like she just dove in and like, just at like the drop of a hat came actually her and her husband came down to visit. Granted, our husbands wanted to golf together. So that was for them to We stayed up late just talking about the design of my property in Phoenix. And it was so much fun. All right. Fast forward a few more properties. And I kept asking her and she kept saying yes. And we were designing my properties together and we were having so much success.

5:46And then it organically went into, I've been in some investing communities. People started asking what I was doing and I was like, oh, well, I'm doing the marketing and my friend's designing. And they're like, is there any way you could do that for me? And we're like, yes, yes, we'll do it for you. and it just snowballed quickly from there. I fell in love with it. This wasn't just traditional design. You know, Jordan runs the design side of Summerled today and we've stayed true to those principles of I'm on the strategy front and she's on the design, but it's this short-term rental investing concept where everything starts with the ROI in mind and then it goes into strategy and then it touches design, which is really this recipe for great success in the short-term rental industry.

6:27I've seen it on my properties. I now own over 35 short-term rentals across the country, and I've applied those principles. And then we've designed for over 1 ,500 of our clients all across the country in different markets. And it's the same framework and principles that we apply to every single property. Fantastic. Fantastic. And you're right. 2020 was before what we're seeing in this kind of amenities arms race, design arms race in terms of short-term rentals. I remember at the time people were so desperate to get away once restrictions were lifting that these properties that had bad iPhone photos where the bed wasn't even made in a picture were not only booking, but booking at decent rates.

7:13And then I think you have the fallout that came after that where people started being like, oh, Airbnb and bus. And it's like, well, no, actually you just put no effort into your listing and you expect people to still come and stay. But so much I love of what I love about your guys' story is it starts with this friendship. It starts with something that you're actually using in your day-to-day life and then realizing the business came out of it. And Jordan, I was looking at your LinkedIn before we had this conversation today. You have such an incredible background. You have been a professional dancer, a model, you rode crew, you were a stylist for a swimwear brand, a beach volleyball player, a corporate recruiter, you worked in art history, so much more all before you found interior design, which you're clearly so passionate about and gifted in.

8:02How do you think having that varied background prepared you for the role that you and Brie have today at Summerled? Yeah, Katie, you definitely did your research. That feels like past lives for sure. But it was a very interesting time when Bree reached out to me about her personal short-term rental because at that time, I kind of had worked through all these different career paths and passions that I had. and I did land in an interior design. It largely had to do with COVID. Previously before that, I was in the art industry and it got hit pretty hard during COVID because all of a sudden people are wanting to invest their money into things that, you know, really impacted their day-to-day life.

8:50And that was, you know, their home environment, their at-home offices and things like that. And I saw that trend. And so I had always been very passionate about interior design. My mom is an interior designer. She's owned her own business my whole life. And so it just felt like a very natural step into that industry. And a lot of the things that you mentioned are very creative that I had experienced previously being in the art industry, you know, being a stylist, you know, even like modeling and dancing, it all has to do with the overall presentation and composition. And so all those things really built on each other.

9:23And it felt like a very easy step into the interior design industry. And I felt like I went from curating just, you know, one piece of art or one space into now taking on an entire project. And so that creative side definitely helped me with, you know, working hand in hand with Brie, where she's coming to me and saying, OK, this is the market analysis. This is like the direction I want to take. And then being able to be inspired by that and then creating this incredible space was was really rewarding. And something, again, that Brie mentioned that we do over and over and over again, it's just like that rinse and repeat.

9:56but actually owning a business, you know, those are, those are skill sets that I had to pull from, you know, being, being like a student athlete and being a recruiter, you know, those like that hard work ethic. And then that kind of business acumen that I, you know, really developed in that, that recruiting job and like very, very corporate, um, you know, definitely has served me well. And so it's interesting. Hindsight is 2020. It feels like it's kind of all over the place, But I can really pinpoint all those experiences and say, OK, those really did impact and influence the overall success that Summerled has today.

10:31Yeah, I don't think it's all over the place at all. I think when you look at all those puzzle pieces, it fits perfectly into what you're doing now. And I think it is also really empowering for people to see that because so much of what is going to lead us where we want to go or where we really should go and be happiest is trying all those little things along the way and picking up. okay, I liked this about that. And I liked this about that. And really interesting to learn that your mom was also an entrepreneur. Bree, you had mentioned you and your husband have that entrepreneurial passion and background as well.

11:06Your story is so fascinating to me. You said now you have 35 short-term rentals. I know that you built and scaled your personal portfolio to 30 properties by the time you were 30. I mean, take that Forbes, that's a way better headline right there. How did you grow so quickly? Because I know you mentioned that you started in long-term rentals, you saw the opportunity in short-term rentals, but from going from idea to making that happen so quickly, what was the path like in there? Yeah, it definitely was a journey. I will say partnerships are super important. I have a great partnership with my husband.

11:43I have a great partnership with Jordan. So I am very lucky and I will just plug in there finding that partner that you match well with and they're fitting your goals and they help you, you know, find that passion. And like they're running with you, it just creates so much magic. So with my, my husband, like that's like one side of what I do and we do that together. It's the investing side of things. I will say I I've had this like entrepreneurship spirit and me, I don't know exactly how to describe it, but I just wanted to like create and do things. I didn't have any of that kind of shown to me through my parents.

12:22Like they've just worked corporate jobs and that's the path that they felt comfortable with. But I just didn't know how to get this out. My husband though, like anyone who meets him just knows he is like a sprinter. Like he loves just like find an idea and he goes all in on that idea. And I'll say we compliment each other because I'm more of like the long distance runner. You can say like in our relationship, not literally not running, but like hypothetically when we're coming to an idea, he is like the take action and go for it. And I am like the follow through. So that has really helped our, like our business relationship.

12:58And so with like the 30 for 30, that was my husband's idea. He actually had it on his phone screen for a year and a half. He knew that we both turned 30 around the same time last year. and he was like, we're going to do this for 30 for 30 and I'm going to put it as my screen phone saver. And like, I'm just going to, you know, he always talked about it. And so I'm like, all right, yes, we're going to do this. We're going to catch on. But really he was driving the ship and I was just making it happen, you know, behind the scenes. So I will say that partnership relationship has been really good. Um, and then going into business with Jordan has been so rewarding as well, because we just, we like, I think values align and that's really key, but we're also very different in our strengths and we've been able to play on those strengths.

13:40It's been very rewarding and fun to learn about business. Challenging too. Like I will say some of the hardest moments have been over the past five years of this growth, but I now see, you know, five years later, since we kind of started this journey around that like COVID 2020 time, just so much growth and knowledge and exciting things to come. Like, you know, you kind of feel like you can do all these things when you when you look back and see what you've accomplished. I'm interested to hear more about your thoughts on partnership, both of you, because what I picked up on right away is that you had been good friends first and now being friends and then starting a business together and a business that is growing and is doing really, really well comes with, I imagine, its own set of challenges.

14:29So what do you guys see as that secret sauce to finding a good co-founder relationship and what have been some challenges along the way to the friendship? Yeah, I would say that when we started, we were pretty naive. We really didn't jump into it with the knowledge that obviously we not have now, but we also just really trusted each other from the very beginning. And I know Brie touched on this very briefly, but the values were shared. We were both very, I would like to think very honest. We have a lot of integrity. There was never any question for how the way that we were going to run the business was going to be because we had like those core values that we knew that we could always fall back on.

15:13I think that our personality types, like it just really naturally worked super well. I have different strengths than Brie and I think we complement each other really, really well. I don't know if this has anything to do with it. This might sound like a little like woo woo, but all of like my most important relationships in my life are people who are Virgos. And so Brie is like that logical, very, I would say like visionary and knows how to implement in order to reach those goals. Whereas, you know, I am kind of a creative at heart and I love having that vision, but having someone by my side to be able to implement and have that strategy behind it all, I think has has been part of our secret sauce.

15:59But I think just at the end of the day, we have an incredible amount of respect for each other and what we do. And I can honestly say throughout these five years, there has been, you know, very, very few times where we haven't totally aligned or agreed on things. And, you know, by the time we kind of get down to it and we talk things through, like we always come down to a unanimous decision. And so I realize now being in it for five years that that is rare. Most people don't have that kind of experience with a business partner. And I just think we were kind of lucky. We were so naive jumping into it.

16:33And we didn't think through like, oh, this could jeopardize our friendship. This could jeopardize our husband's friendship or anything like that. We jumped in and we're like, I like you, you like me, like, let's just go with it. And thank goodness, like it has all worked out. But that's what I would say. Like, We just have values. We respect each other. And our strengths play to one another so, so well. Even in the way that you just answered that question too, I think what you're showing is you're able to not only know your own weaknesses, but talk about them too. And I think maybe some other founders struggle with that, where it's, I need to be perfect all the time, or I know everything and I'm the smartest person in the room.

17:16But the amount of times you said we were naive at the beginning, like you're owning it. And then that allows you to say like, okay, well, this is what you're really good at. And this is what I'm maybe less so good at. And so like, let's compliment each other rather than pretending we don't all have weaknesses because we do. We're humans. No, most definitely. I wish there was like a way, maybe people do this, like to date your future business partner. Cause like thinking about your marriage, like really are like married to this person. Like you're signing like a legal binding contract with them, like a marriage.

17:47Um, so dating. Maybe we had a little bit of that because we were friends and whatnot, but yeah, I definitely got the warnings from my family and other peers. Like, you know, it's, it's kind of maybe dangerous to go into a business partnership with your friend because they probably seen experiences where that falls apart, but luckily it was not our experience. I do think it comes down to the respect and we're both very hard workers too. Like I know at the end of the day, people make mistakes. Like I've made mistakes. Jordan has made mistakes, but we're doing our best. Like it's the intent behind it.

18:18And I think that's the same for a marriage too. When you know that person is doing all that they can and trying their best with their weaknesses, you can give them so much grace and move on very quickly. I think dating your future business partner might be your guys' next business idea, but we're busy enough as it is. Let's talk about Summerled. How would you guys describe Summerled and you said the business almost kind of started itself just from people watching what you guys were doing together and saying, can you do that for me? So when was that moment where you found a name and you were like, we're actually going to give this a go?

18:57And did you have day jobs that you needed to leave? Like what was the kind of founding moment together? Yeah, I had the day job. I was working corporate. I thought I landed my absolute dream job. And I remember it was almost like the same week that I accepted this position. And Brie called me a few days later and was like, I have another property. Like, let's do it. And so I remember telling Brie, like, I can help you on nights and weekends, but like, I'm going to start this new position. And yeah, the beginning of summer led, like I was doing both. I was, you know, working like my nine to five.

19:35And then it was like the five to like midnight was summer led. And so I remember very vividly like that day when I made that decision of like quitting my day job and just going all in on Summerled. And that was that was pivotal. And I remember Brie like sent me some flowers because that's another thing. Brie and I don't live in the same state. So we are doing this completely remotely. And, you know, phone calls, Zoom meetings, those kind of things and see each other periodically. But she sent me these flowers. And I just felt like this huge relief again, like with this partnership, but also knowing like, okay, like this is, this is real.

20:11Like we are going to go all in on this. And I do think like at that time, once I was all in, you know, Bree, you know, you, you have, you know, so much going on in your life. But I think at that point, we both were like, okay, let's do this. And then as soon as like all of our time and effort was getting put into Summerled, that's when it really blossomed and took off for sure. Was there something that needed to happen for you, Jordan, to say, like, was it a revenue number, a number of clients or something that made you say, okay, I'm going to do this? Or was it more of just a gut feeling of I can't split my time anymore?

20:44I'm such a gut decision maker. So it wasn't an exact number, but our calendars were filled. And so at that point, like I knew that we were, we had something so great going. Everything was word of mouth. And I think that's the most powerful way to grow a business is because people had great experiences with us and they wanted to tell everyone else about their experience. And I would say like today, a lot of our business still comes that same exact way. And so that is so powerful. So we, we had full calendars. This was the time when Brie and I were taking all the sales calls. We were doing everything.

21:21And, and I just knew that, okay, if this is just a little snippet of putting just a few hours into it a week, then just imagine what would happen if I put, you know, 80 hours plus into this, you know, during, you know, that's really what it looks like at first. So yeah, it was definitely a gut feeling. And I luckily had a very supportive husband who was very excited about this opportunity. And yeah, it felt like a risk then, but then there was like no looking back. Yeah. I think that that risk into entrepreneurship, there is nothing scarier for those of us who have done that because we have been so conditioned that we need to have the W-2 job and we need to get the better job and the better job.

22:02And speaking from my own experience, it was always like, how do I get that corner office? And that's really when I'll know I'll make it. So I'm always really interested to hear, especially for some of us who don't have, like Bree, you were saying, entrepreneurship was not modeled for you at home. Jordan, I know you saw it a bit, but still it's a difference between seeing it and actually doing it yourself. That can feel really intimidating. So I just really commend you guys now seeing where your business is and and it's a relatively short amount of time to have built that yeah no it was it was quick um we also kind of going back to that name of summer led because you mentioned that um that was the moment really where things got serious i mean that's kind of like the start of businesses you love to like get the name on it get the website all of that set up but yeah i remember sitting down with jordan and we were i love a good brand so i definitely was like, you know, we need to make this a long-term brand and we do this with our properties too.

23:00Like again, the same marketing principles apply, but like you want this to withstand the test of time and be like a standalone experience and brand and have a feeling behind it. So I was like, I don't want to tie this to our names. I don't, you know, like maybe we grow beyond that, even though it was just Jordan and I in the beginning, I don't think a brand necessarily, not maybe not always, but I don't love like tying it to a specific name or things. So we wanted to make it abstract, but still have like a meaning behind it. I'm also, you know, very aware you got to have like a good, you know, Instagram handle and a website URL.

23:34So all these things played a factor into it. We landed on summer led. It's actually Latin for summer traveler. So we felt like it fit, like it made sense in the context of short-term rentals. And we were only a short-term design firm still are today, but that's our niche. And we liked the sound of it. We've also incorporated it into our branding with the lead. So we're market led, we're strategy led, like it feels like it's just this directional name. And when that, you know, came about, it just, again, it snowballed, but then it went very quick and we learned how to scale and we learned how to, you know, we learned how to take what we were doing, everything, but then deciding how are we going to put this on other people and hire and train and create, you know, the whole operation behind Summerled.

24:22And so now talk me through the Summerled process. So from the moment a client says, I want to work with you guys, what do you guys do? So that's what's cool. With that scale, we were able to piece what we had already been doing. You know, we started with my properties and we piece them into departments and this whole workflow and really client journey that someone goes on. And everything is hinged on what is best for the investor. We succeed when our investors at the end of the day see that high ROI, are able to charge a premium rate, their occupancy is high. We are doing everything and we're constantly tweaking too of how can we best support our clients and their goals.

25:05So the process looks like you start with a consultation call and that's a free call. And people think going into it that they may be talking about design. We actually don't talk about design on that call because we haven't done any of the strategy yet and data analysis. That call is purely to see what does the investment analysis look like. So again, like investors, you are a business owner and I treat short term rentals truly like this is your mini, it's a mini business. Every property is a mini business and you start with a good business model and that's your investment analysis. And then next you need a marketing strategy and that's the design of it.

25:43So the investment analysis, we're going to walk you through, you know, what sort of on a high level, the investment it will take in your specific market, because there are markets where you need to put more into it, you know, just to be competitive, you need a higher level of amenities or design than other markets. You may not have to invest as much into it as like a Nashville or a Scottsdale, some of these huge markets. So we're going to look at the numbers in that consultation call, and we're going to see what would an ROI look like if you're going to invest more, but that investment is getting you to a higher level in the market.

26:19You're getting into like the 75th or 80th percentile in the market. So you're a top property versus what would it look like if you didn't invest as much, but you were in an average property and running those scenarios with them is what that investment or that consultation looks like. Then once someone is onboarded, we are going through, we're gathering our information. We start first with data analysis. So we're trying not to draw conclusions yet. We're just gathering the information on the specific market. So we look broadly at first and we're saying, what does this market until? Why are people traveling here?

26:53What are the reoccurring events? What's the seasonality? What draws people in? Then we're looking at, you know, the home itself and saying, okay, how large is this home? You know, what sort of, you know, families or friends, who may be staying here? We also look at the competitors and we're taking notes on everything. We're saying, what are the trending amenities? What are the design styles? And we're pulling in this data. then our strategy team starts drawing those conclusions and they're like okay in this specific market we're going to take notes of what's working you know you don't have to completely reinvent the wheel if we know an amenity is like you know a strong amenity in that area we're going to put it on our list of a market specific amenity but we're also going to get strategic here of how can we position this property from a branding and a marketing standpoint to stand out so we're going going to start drawing those conclusions of, okay, maybe what's the missing piece or maybe an element of the market that's working, but how can we take it to the next level?

27:51So we know a hot tub, for example, is an amenity that's really strong, but how can we position the hot tub to really sell a better experience than what is currently being sold? So that strategy portion where amenities are the top priority. Those are really the low hanging fruit of, of how you can increase your ROI. Then we're going to look to, you know, we're also going to look at the overall branding, like what is the feeling of this property? Who are we marketing to? So there's a lot that goes into it, but that's the strategy portion. Once that is dialed in, the investor feels aligned. We're aligned.

28:25We're aligned on budget as well. Again, it's an investment. So we're looking at the beginning on what should the budget be to fit this market. We don't want to overspend, but also it's dangerous to underspend because then you're going to fall into maybe an average case scenario if you don't have enough amenities and things. So that is the front heavy end of it. Then it goes into design. I won't say it's easy on the back end because the design has to come with all the creativity, but the decisions are made up front and that keeps the design very focused on the ROI. It's delivered to the client.

29:02We go through some revisions if necessary, and we have a virtual design option where that's, you know, where it ends and everything is delivered to the client where they can set it up themselves, but we also have a project management service. You know, there's investors who it makes sense for them to hand off project management. Maybe this is a tax strategy or they just don't have that time to go out and set up a short-term rental because it does take a lot of time to manage contractors and get it all implemented. So our project managers, if the client chooses to go that route, will source all the local contractors.

29:36We will order everything and manage those orders. And we send our team out there in person to set it all up, to stage it, and to direct the photography. Wow, that's fantastic. What a great service too for people because I could see exactly that. Some are just like, I want your design expertise, but I'll do it myself. And other people are going to say, this is a lot of work. I want the pros in there. Working with properties across the country, I think you might have even done some international ones as well. Are there certain amenities that always work that you're like, if we put X into a property, we know it's going to drive ROI?

30:12Or are they really destination specific? They really are destination specific. And that's why we do so much research before we even come up with the amenity strategy. You know, there are, you know, amenities that we see in lots of different types of markets. And those are kind of the baseline amenities that we say in order for you to be competitive at all, you need to make sure that you have, you know, X, Y, and Z amenities. You know, Bree mentioned a hot tub. You know, I would say that's probably the most common amenity that we see across the board. Same with kind of like a gathering space, like a game room.

30:47I think we've designed so many game rooms across the nation. And so that is why we do so much market research because in this market, you know, you might need, you know, A, very different guest avatar or a completely different region, then you need maybe a completely different set of amenities. Yeah. And with amenities, I feel like we're in this like amenities arms race right now. Are there any that you look at and you think this is just a trend and it's going to go away and maybe the cost of it doesn't actually merit it because we think it's going to be over in a year or two or three? Or is it still too nuanced that you can't just make a sweeping declaration like that?

31:33I don't know, Ruth, you've seen in your properties, but one, you know, we are seeing a huge surge of, you know, pretty out there amenities. But because the market research really supports it, we, I can't say for sure if it's going to be a trend. Like I'm thinking, you know, pickleball courts. I think that is maybe like the biggest one that's on everyone's mind of, okay, this is a really expensive amenity that I'm going to be putting at my property. Is it really going to pay off? And for right now, I would say 100 % will pay off depending on your market research. So if it's going to be multi-generational families, it's going to be large groups of people.

32:12That's where I think it definitely makes sense to invest something like a pickleball court that, you know, is very expensive, but definitely has a huge ROI. You know, we are seeing these trends of bringing all the activities that these groups of people are going to be doing into the property. And so that way they don't have to go out and, you know, rent a pickleball court or rent a tennis court or whatever it may be that they want to be doing to spend their time together. We are, you know, catering directly to them. And when you think about the hospitality industry as a whole, you know, there are, you know, resorts are way ahead of the short-term rental industry.

32:50And you always have those go-to amenities at any sort of resort or hotel. And so short-term rentals, this next chapter of short-term rentals is really tapping into that resort hospitality kind of feel and bringing those amenities all in here. And so I know that a lot of people are saying, oh, it's just a trend or it's going to be going out. But let's look at, you know, other industries that have these kind of amenities and, you know, it's going to be here to stay. Yeah. How do you balance thinking about the operational concerns of amenities? Because like you just said, at a resort, you have a maintenance team and you have people on site always.

33:30And then I'm thinking about, from my perspective as a short-term rental owner and operator, something like a pickleball court. it great you install it it looks fabulous it photographs really well but where are the rockets where are the balls and how am I keeping them clean and making sure there's enough on site like thinking of all those logistical concerns and you know with both of your backgrounds I imagine you're hyper aware of that too it's not just about how does it photo but how does it actually experience for the guests too so what do you suggest to your owners when they're concerned about something like that.

34:03Yeah. I think it's, we have conversations with the owners of what is their risk tolerance? What is their operating tolerance? Like there's different scales and some people want it to keep it very minimal and it depends on their business model. That's what I love about this. Like they're all these mini businesses and I love learning about investors and what their strategy is because there's a million different roads and we're all trying to get to the same end and it's okay for roads that get you to the same end. So with the operating risks, for example, on my properties, we have so many and we've pocketed them together that we can take bigger operating risks because we have local teams and they have more volume.

34:44So we have some markets, we have full time boots on the ground people to operate. And we do have it written into our operating model. So that's key. You just have to be very aware of it. and we like to make investors aware of kind of that back end effect of these amenities that you will have to have maintenance. So go back to your investment analysis, go back to your operating model and write that in that it's going to be an expense on your books. And that's not really a bad thing. You just have to understand that you need to cover the operating expense and know, you know, do your research upfront, you know, call and see, are there local companies that do this service?

35:24or do I need to hire someone directly to do this service? And what does that look like for me and my lifestyle? Different investors have different lifestyles. My husband and I are all in on short-term rentals. So we have our full day to work on this. If you're managing it on your own and you have a nine to five, and this is more of a side thing, maybe you just don't have the time to do that or you outsource to a property management group. You know what I'm saying? There's so many different paths. So it's hard to say a one size fits all. It depends on the investor and what their business plan really is.

35:58Yeah. And it goes back so beautifully to what you guys talked about with your partnership too. It's really knowing yourself, knowing your risk tolerance, knowing the amount of time and energy and effort you have in your day to give your properties and then deciding if it makes sense for you or not. I'm wondering though, if you really zoom out from all of these conversations that you yourselves are having, that your team are having. What are some of the biggest mistakes you see short-term rental owners and operators make when it comes to designing a property? So I call this mistake like the shot in the dark mistake.

36:31And I saw it so much in my marketing career too. We'd have clients come to us with great business plans, but their marketing was just all over the place. They were just trying all of these little efforts that they weren't focused. And the same applies to short-term rentals, I think, let's go back to the amenities, arm race, people feel like they just need to check off all these boxes. And I've got to put a hot tub and I got to put a pickleball court and I've got to do a putting green and check these boxes, but it's not focused. So I think the biggest mistake is, you know, starting, maybe starting like with some of those later decisions first and just jumping in the design and starting to, you know, order things and got to breathe and And you've got to look at your marketing plan and you're not designing this property for you.

37:18You're designing it for a specific guest in mind. So it all becomes much more clear when you have a marketing plan and you know exactly who you're designing for. Then the amenity question is a lot easier to answer because when we're looking at amenities, we cross-reference it with the experience that we're trying to create here and the guest who's going to be enjoying it. And will they actually use this amenity? Is this amenity going to get them across the finish line and book your property? Is it going to excite them? One example of this is we designed this bachelorette property in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

37:52And our research, when we're looking at the data, it showed majority of the top performing properties had a game room. So as we were starting to map out in the strategy what that game room would look like, among other amenities, we started looking back to our guest avatar, these girls, this bachelorette group and we were like, they're not going to play pool. You know, they're not going to play arcade games. Like why we got to scratch this off our list. We got to go back to the drawing board because this just won't serve that guest avatar that we're going for. So we had this great extra bonus space that was, you know, clear.

38:28Like, I guess if you were just looking at the market in general, it clearly would have been a game room. Okay. That would have been the obvious choice, just looking at the market, but actually creating a brand and experience. We said, no, we can't do the game room. That's not going to serve our audience. So we dug into what do these bachelorette groups do in Fort Lauderdale that they would go out of the house to do? What can we bring inside the house to provide them like this private experience that will then allow our investor, the owner to charge a premium rate? Because at that point, you're not just booking for beds, you're booking for an experience and that's where you get top property.

39:02So instead of doing the obvious game room. We did this lounge. We call it the club. It's a club room. And we got, you know, we made it very moody, disco balls on the wall, a stage with a great karaoke setup and a stripper pole. Because in that area, it was very common for the bachelorette groups to go and do like these private, like, you know, strip pole classes, dance classes, and bring that inside. We had this great little sofa and a bar. It was so moody. It was so cool. And I know that property gets booked because of that like club room because the cleaner who cleans it is like, I'm always in their cleaning.

39:41Like they use this and they're booking because of that amenity. And that is what a great amenity is. The guests have to be using it because if they're using it, they're booking because they wanted to go and experience that thing. That is such a great example and really like personifies what you're talking about with driving for guest experience being so much more than what we just necessarily think about. For example, this last weekend, we rented this great house with four other couples and their kids. So there was 10 adults and 10 kids. And it was interesting to me because in the kind of pre-communication, the guests, the host said to me, we are in a residential area and therefore we cannot have any noise outside after 8 p.m.

40:24and my initial thought was, wow, that must be really hard for the host because this is a very big house. It was maybe 10 bedrooms, a big pool, a sauna, et cetera. So they really needed a group just like ours who we were like, yeah, 8 p.m., our kids are sleeping, so we won't be that loud, so don't worry, versus the bigger groups who would typically rent a bigger property are probably going to be very loud after 8 p.m. And it makes me think then about the amenity choices that they made. For example, a barrel sauna. Yes, our kids actually did go in it just because they thought it was funny. But actually, they might have been better suited steering more into the kid amenities for the experience that they needed to provide and the type of guests that they were trying to attract.

41:13And I've actually been in a Summerled design property in Scottsdale, Arizona, where you guys designed a really cool karaoke room that it was, um, where the level up your listing VIP party was two years ago. And not only is that space so cool and so beautiful and you just want to hang out in there, but it goes exactly to what you were saying, Brie, in terms of this isn't, do we have enough beds? Do we have enough bedrooms for the size of our group? This is, we need to book that house because that will be so fun to do. And all of a sudden you just change the price point that people are willing to pay.

41:50Yeah, no, exactly. And that's the key to being in a top property in your market. We've seen this industry evolve over the years. And I will say with confidence, like it is the goal to be a top property because we run all the different scenarios. And, you know, I would tell you if it was best to go be a, you know, I'd be lying to you. Like we, this industry, it's becoming more professionalized. And when we look at the returns, it is worth investing to be a top property to not only set yourself up for success in this year, but for the years to come. So we've got to be thinking more like business owners and then with the marketing strategy, you know, going back to what you said, Katie, that back in like 2019, you could rent with iPhone pictures and with the bed unmade and it would rent like great, but that's behind us.

42:50It just doesn't work that way anymore. And I actually really enjoy it and love it. Like it's not an Airbnb bus, like it's not going away. We're just becoming closer to that hospitality standard. And I think that's a good thing because I think it's cementing the short-term rental industry as we are legit professionals. We're coming, we're doing right by the clients as clients and meaning the guest, the guest is leveling us up as well. And so it's just all about being in that business owner mindset, which goes to another point that I think a mistake people make in their investment analysis, their business plan is to not incorporate that you're, you may have to reinvest into this business and that's okay.

43:35You know, every single business, you know, just in general, outside of short-term rentals, but every business, you're constantly upping your marketing game because of the demand. You have to. There's competition. So it's not any different in short-term rentals. You have to expect that you're going to have to reinvest in a marketing strategy, maybe add some more amenities, maybe adjust some things. So write that into your business plan that maybe a couple years from now, it's going to be a different game and you're going to have to go back in. And that doesn't mean you're failing. I hear all the time people are like, I'm seeing the diminishing returns, but then I'm like, how have you done a redesign?

44:14Have you done anything to up your game? And they've been like, no, like I got this up and running eight years ago and I haven't changed. And I'm like, okay, so that's not business. You know, like it's okay. You're not failing. It's not a problem. Like it's just a different game now. Yeah. I could not agree more. I co-host a property and they have a fantastic location and the exterior of the property is super cool. But inside, it's just not the aesthetic that I would pay money to rent. And so one of the first things I did with them was, you know, encourage a redesign and such. And it's interesting though, because, you know, there's one week for August that was still available.

44:54It's since booked, but they wanted to do only Sunday to Sunday rentals, week-long rentals in July and August. and I said to them, that's really tricky. A lot of people are not traveling like that. And then on top of that, if you don't have this beautifully designed property, you're then making your consideration set even smaller. And I heard from them their frustration of, oh, well, this week is still open. You can't just rely on the fact that you have a great location. Just because it booked last year and the year before doesn't mean it's gonna continue to book because I see it. I see exactly what you're touching on where when I entered the market three and a half years ago, it was iPhone photos were in the Adirondacks.

45:35So it was a lot of black and red checkered plaid throws and bears, statues of bears everywhere. It was very easy to be a top performing property. And that is starting to change, which to your point, Bree, is really good for the consumer. It's good for the traveler. Jordan, what about from your perspective, if you zoom out and think about mistakes that owners or operators are making? Is there anything else that you see that you want to touch on? Yeah, I mean, I think that's so prevalent with what both of you have mentioned, because just last night, my husband and I were trying to book a trip in Lake Tahoe in a few months, and there's this beautiful property right on the water, and the interior is just so subpar.

46:18And so I think it is an interesting perspective shift for these owners that you need to be aware of what's going on in your market and in essentially like your industry. Because if you don't, you just kind of sit back and relax, like you're just leaving so much money on the table. And that is what design truly moves that needle. And that is what really makes you that top performer. It not only will catch the attention of people who are, you know, scrolling through these different platforms, but it also leads to a better grip, like guest experience at the end of the day. It's elevated. And we definitely have to thank guests, you know, people like us and and others who are going to these properties of just kind of elevating the experience and having higher expectations because that's what we're going to all benefit from later on.

47:05I definitely think those are kind of like the top mistakes that I continue to see. I will say just keep in mind that this is a business. Do not design for yourself or your own personal aesthetic. And it doesn't work when you, let's say there are serial investors who have multiple properties. don't ever just like copy and paste or rinse and repeat. You need to make sure that you are diversifying in the aesthetics and the design depending on who your target audience is and the local inspiration. I can't tell you how important it is to make sure that your property is very local specific because people are choosing, let's say Lake Tahoe before they're choosing your property.

47:44And so again, it is just like being a business, being in that mindset of, You know, you aren't designing for yourself. And sometimes we do have those kind of hard conversations with our clients of, okay, I know this is what you like, but we're designing for someone else other than you. Of course, we want to hear your insight. It's your money. It's your investment. But I think that shift is truly what leads to further success down the road. One hospitality design trend that you think is just getting started, like people are just starting to use it, find out about it. It's not really everywhere yet and you're excited about it.

48:18I'm personally really excited about the wellness kind of trend. I definitely think it's here to say, and I think we're only just scratching the surface. I think that wellness as a whole, it has become kind of like a flex. It's become a status symbol that, okay, when we have, you know, almost like instead of disposable income, disposable time, like we have more time on our hands and we're investing that into ourselves. That is, that's kind of, it's almost like a status symbol. And so being able to create these spaces and short-term rentals and hospitality spaces that really lean into wellness and longevity and taking a step back, I think that is something that people are really kind of craving and looking for.

49:02And it's so much more than just like adding a sauna or adding a hot tub, but truly creating a full experience around, you know, unplugging and really investing time into yourself. We've seen some great trends. we've done a few of these kind of properties and the numbers don't lie. You know, we definitely see that people are wanting that they're booking and these are properties that are booked out very, very far in advance. But I would love to see not only short term rentals, but also like hospitality as a whole, leaning into that more and providing that experience because it truly is an experience that people, that people need and want.

49:36And I think we're, we're just getting started. What about you, Brie? I was going to say the same thing. But I mean, on that, it's just more of the feeling people want to get out of their mundane day to day and just feel something and feel connected. I think with AI and social media, it's pushed us in the opposite direction. While I do love those resources, there's a purpose for AI and social media. You want to get away from it and just feel human. so wellness is a big one but also just with any sort of design it's that feeling that like you want to have come out whether that be going to a cabin and unplugging with friends and family or going on like a really exciting vibrant girls trip like just whatever the feeling is I think meeting guests with that feeling is always going to to yield like a higher return because that's what they're craving and they want a feeling more than just like to go get out and stay in a place.

50:36Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Bree, Jordan, I want to ask you guys the last three questions that I ask every guest. And the first is what was the best hospitality experience that you have ever had? Oh, you know, one that comes to mind since you're in New York, I had the opportunity to stay at the St. Regis. They're in New York City. It's right off of Fifth Avenue. It's right across street from a polo bar. It was incredible. Like you just feel so taken care of and it's, it's so classic. And I would say that's one of my favorite hospitality experiences that I've ever had. At least that just like comes, comes to mind immediately.

51:14Great one. What about you, Brie? So my husband and I, we do these off sites where we go and we set goals, but we like to stay at a great place and we're local to Utah. So we stayed in Park City at the Stein Erickson Lodge. And if you Google them, you'll probably immediately see their domes on this deck with a beautiful view. They have these domes that you can sit and dine in and they just know that's such a vibe and an experience. So we went and dined there and the hospitality was spectacular. Like again, they knew that this is what was driving people in. So I think they went above and beyond.

51:50Like they brought us blankets. They had live music. They just like really took care of us, bringing us like little things out and things from the chef. It wasn't a cheap experience. But again, like they understood who the audience was, why they were coming, and they invested hospitality into that specific moment. Also, I love the idea of a goal setting trip. I think that sounds amazing. So I'm going to need an itinerary from that to sell my husband on because I definitely want to book one of those as well. But on the flip side of those fantastic experiences, what were the worst hospitality experiences you guys have ever had?

52:28Well, Bree and I actually just experienced one somewhat recently. So we do these quarterly offsites with our leadership team. And we have this kind of like dinner at the end of the stay all together. And so we booked this restaurant far in advance, about three months in advance. Because it's a large group, it was about 12 of us. And, and we were really excited to all go and like, you know, dress up. We do the whole thing with all of our leaders and we get to this restaurant. And the first thing I say is like, oh, we can't find your reservation. Okay, well we made this reservation so far in advance.

53:04So they do seat us at a table and you know, we're, we're sitting there, we're ordering drinks and you know, we're just getting started. And then they come and they say, this isn't your reservation. You need to leave. Or they didn't say you need to leave, but they did. they said, we have another table for you, but you're going to have to move. And it was hard for Bree and I being there, knowing that we pride ourselves on being a hospitality business and we're a service business. And that's something that we've really stressed with that same group. We had just recently finished reading Unreasonable Hospitality.

53:40And so that was a little off-putting. We ended up trying not to make a big deal about it. Okay, let's just move to the other table. but it definitely did like leave a sour taste in our mouth. And luckily the food was really great, but it was tough. It was like a tough experience because here we were, you know, taking time out of our day to choose this restaurant and didn't feel like we were taken care of to, to the extent that we thought we probably deserved. So. And I imagine it's a sizable bill for 12 people too. And the error is on them, not on you guys. So it's just frustrating all around.

54:13Bri, anything else to add or do you share the sentiments that that was the tough one recently? Because it sounds it. No, yeah, I share that. And Jordan knows because we were the ones who were the bookers, right? And so like we're booking for our group and we want to have that great experience. And then it didn't turn into that. So our group was fine with it. But I think we bared some of that burden of like we wanted this to be great. And so thinking about the Airbnb industry and the person who's booking it, they have a lot of that subconsciously in their mind. They want their group to be happy.

54:47And okay, I'll dive into another marketing principle that we use, but we identify who is most likely to book and what are their priorities for the other people. A lot of times females are booking and it's like the matriarch of this is a family, like it's a matriarch of the family, the grandma or the mom, and they care more about the experience of their kids than they do their own experience. So think about that too from like a marketing perspective. Like you've got to create those kids spaces or those teenage spaces or the gathering spaces because that makes them feel good and they'll leave you a five-star review if their group was happy.

55:21Yes. So spot on. Final question for you both. What does hospitality mean to you? And is there anyone, it could be a person in your life, it could be a brand that you think has truly mastered it? Yeah. I know I just mentioned, we just recently read, Unreasonable Hospitality, with our leadership group. And I think that's really shifted our mindset and the way that we serve people as well. Just within Summerled, we have this kind of motto that we do, and it's called Design That Delivers and Service That Surprises. And this is something that every single person that works with us knows that we strive every single day to deliver this incredible design and continue to render service that surprises our clients.

56:05And so we have this all hands meeting every other week. It's at the end of each design period. And we kind of award this DDSS kind of privilege to wear that title or that badge to an individual on each team. And so that's something that Bree and I are very intentional about the way that we, you know, conduct Summerled with an also try to get the rest of our team to also inherit and make sure that all of our clients are taken care of because they know that they're representing the brand of Summerled, but then also bringing myself, you know, individually. And so that's something that we are continually striving for.

56:42And we look to businesses that are doing this so well, you know, whether that's within the hospitality industry, but also just like service industry, I think as a whole, definitely, I think needs to lean into it more where we're getting in this era of, you know, just rinse and repeat. Let's get it fast. Like, They don't really care about the relationship. But like I mentioned, our business at the very beginning, it grew because of word of mouth. And today it still grows because of word of mouth and referrals. And people only refer things that they truly had a great experience in. And so that's what it means to me is, you know, being hospitable.

57:20It goes so much further than just, you know, making sure that like someone's taken care of, but really going the next step and knowing that these are clients that can be returning clients and then also, you know, continue to refer out our business. And so it goes a very long way that we're continually trying to embody every day. And Brie, what about you? Yeah. Hospitality to me, it's something that's so wholesome and there's a spirituality to it of serving other people. So I think when you are hospitable, whether that be in your business or your day to day, you get that return to you just in like these sparks of joy.

58:02So one of my favorite hospitality examples actually comes from that book and reasonable hospitality. And the story goes, there was this little girl that stayed at a resort and she had a special stuffed animal. I have kids and they also have these special toys that they bring. And I, I joke with my husband. I'm like, if there was a fire in our house, I would grab like their specialty. Like that'd be my first thing because everything else I can replace, but like they're ratted up special toys are like the most special things. But this little girl, she left her stuffed animal at the resort and they like realized it later and they called and they were so concerned.

58:35And the resort was like, of course, we'll find it. We'll send it back to you. But before they sent it back, they went around the resort and they took this stuffed animal and they photographed it in different areas. They had the stuffed animal on a lounge chair with sunglasses on bathing in the sun. They put it next to all these things. And the story that they shared with the family, they printed off these photos and sent it back with the bear. And they said the bear was just enjoying itself. Like they created this whole story around it. And like, he was just having a vacation. He was taken care of like all as well.

59:09And so this family received the stuffed animal back with kind of the story of what the bear was doing while it was away. And I just love that. I am like, I love anything that has to do with making kids happy as well and bringing joy to them. so that's my favorite story and again i just think hospitality when you give it it comes back in return whether that be you know a karma related thing or just simply the joy of giving to somebody is so meaningful that's a perfect place for us to end brie jordan thank you both for joining us today sharing so much of your brilliance with us i really appreciate it thank you so much katie all right everyone it's time for today's sweet summary where i write down the key insights and and actionable takeaways from today's conversation.

59:56Summerled, as a company, is focused on designing physical spaces with intentionality. But so much of today's conversation proved that Brie and Jordan are equally intentional about the less tangible things they build. It's evident in everything from their partnership to the business they've created. A business that they, interestingly, never set out to create. Brie had a need in her short-term rental portfolio and brought her background in marketing and real estate investing. Jordan brought her impeccable taste and her experience in interior design to the table. After seeing the results on Bree's properties, other investors started reaching out unprompted and asking them to do the same thing for their portfolios.

1:00:40Sometimes the best businesses reveal themselves before you consciously decide to start them. Part of their success might be the fact that Bree and Jordan had the benefit of being friends long before they ever worked together. Now, after years of building their company together, their advice to potential business partners is clear. Date first. And when you do, pay attention to more than if you work well together. Look for shared values and mutual respect, but also complementary strengths. Bree and Jordan didn't need to be good at the same things. In fact, being able to recognize and admit what each of them wasn't good at allowed them to build around those gaps.

1:01:24That same clarity around what you're building and what you're building it for is at the heart of their approach to design. There's a difference between creating a place that is functional, practical, and perfectly nice for people to stay in while they visit a destination, and creating a property that becomes the destination itself. The properties that achieve the latter have more than convenience or enough beds for everyone in the group. They've created an experience that gives guests a specific reason to choose that place over all the others and ideally makes them willing to pay more for it. But the work doesn't end once you've built the company or once a guest has booked your property.

1:02:08hospitality itself can be a growth strategy. In fact, Summerled grew largely through word of mouth and it still does. Their internal mantra, design that delivers and service that surprises is a big reason why. When you deliver something worth talking about in a way that exceeds expectations, well, you give your customers every reason to do the marketing for you. And that concludes another episode of Sweet Success. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please subscribe, rate, and review the show. We all know how important those five-star reviews are. I also want to say a massive thank you to each and every one of you for tuning in.

1:02:48It means the absolute world to me. And I'd love to hear from you. If you have ideas for future guests, new topics to cover, or even just want to say hi, don't be shy. Message me through our website, sweetsuccesspodcast.com, or on social media, at sweetsuccesspodcast. that's sweet like hotel suite. Once again, I'm your host, Katie Klein, and I'm super excited to see you all next week.