Why This Founder Believes Every Hotel Should Think Like a Media Company

0:00I'm Brandon Berkson, and you are listening to Sweet Success.

0:08You've just checked in to Sweet Success. Join me, Katie Cline, for exclusive conversations with hotel executives, hospitality leaders, and industry innovators. Together, we'll uncover the strategies and techniques these masters of hospitality relentlessly refined. Whether you're already in the industry or just starting out, tune in every week to unlock the secret to your sweet success.

0:37Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Sweet Success. I'm your host, Katie Kline, and today I'm thrilled to welcome Brandon Berkson to the show. Brandon is the founder of Hotels Above Par, the premier boutique hotel publication with nearly half a million readers. He also recently launched Maxine, a twice-weekly newsletter devoted to independent, design-driven Mexico travel. Brandon, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here. I'm a fan of the podcast. Aw, thank you. Well, I am a fan of yours as well. We have a lot to discuss today.

1:13And if I am correct, I believe you actually started your career in hospitality as a bellboy. Is that right? I did, yeah. So I've always loved hotels. When I was a kid, I was never good at sports. So I would always like do architecture and draw these buildings that were supposed to be hotels. I would make my brother play hotel with me. He just wanted to play baseball. So it was a little bit difficult to convince him to do that. But, you know, eventually I ended up going to college in San Francisco for a bit. And I worked at the Bellboy at the Mystic Hotel there, which is now Pali Society. It was so, so interesting.

1:50And the fact that it was kind of the forefront of my career that I didn't know would take me into the hotel media and travel media was something that was really exciting. When I was there, I would fix pillows, I would do breakfast, and then I moonlighted sometimes as a front desk associate. And it really taught me so much about the hotel industry, so much to the point where I think I even garnered just a whole nother accumulation of praise for it. Yeah. It's so funny how those early experiences really shape us. I was laughing as you were talking too, because I used to make my sister play school and I was always the teacher because I'm an older child.

2:31So I thought I got to decide everything. Ironically, she is now a school teacher. So I think this is just like her lifelong way of trying to spite me for that. But it's true. A lot of our personality comes out in play and already you had such a love and admiration for the industry. I think it's so smart to start in a space that you really get a full perspective of the industry. Yeah, absolutely. It was very humbling to, you know, to work as a bellboy and meet people from all around the world coming in. And so many people who, you know, I think one of my favorite parts about it was, you know, I loved giving recommendations to people because I felt that as a bellboy and as a front desk associate, we were the first ones that would create an impression for someone who's visiting a new city.

3:18So when I was able to be like, oh, go here in San Francisco, or like, I hope I like your room, or I hope you like your room, like there's this in there, like, it was just really nice to perform that act of hospitality and give people their first experience of when they've come to a new city and that big San Francisco. Do you have any crazy stories from when you were a bellboy? I do actually have a couple. um so this is am i allowed to talk a little bit of smack you can please give the give the listeners some juicy juice so when i was at the mystic hotel i it was san francisco and uh there's a bit of a homeless you know issue there and it's really sad to be unhoused and all that so they thought it would be a good idea if i went to the front and played security guard because all these homeless people were coming in and taking cookies.

4:10And so I played security guard and this one person came in and I felt really bad. I was like, I'm sorry you can't come in here, sir. Like you keep on coming to take cookies. He pushes me out of the way into the wall, goes to the cookies, puts them all in his shirt and shoves me again.

4:29Oh my goodness. That is definitely not what you thought was going to happen when you became a bellboy, I imagined. 100 % and it was like so inappropriate to put this little 19 year old kid as as this as a domestic security guard at this hotel oh my gosh I you know I have a lot of friends who have started in the industry as butlers bellboys you name it and they all have crazy stories but that I was not I was not expecting to hear that all right guys I guess I guess this is going to be a little bit unexpected and a little uncensored on your podcast. Well, you and I actually have a lot of things in common, I'm sure.

5:10But one of which is we are both hotel publicists. So how did you transition from being a bellboy into PR? So I worked at a PR agency after college in London, where I did a lot of social media, you know, it was quite entry level in the sense that I was compiling media lists. And I was, you know, I was doing like a lot of the social like production, not as much a strategy, but I, I, I really garnered a interest for the travel media sphere and for hotel media. So then I got a job in New York and that was a dream job for me. I was at a PR agency called human cry. I would do pitching. I would do, you know, media list strategy, liaising with clients coming up with fun angles.

5:55and so I really loved that job and I was there for about two and a half years and then the pandemic hit and I was like holy holy crap like there's no way I'm going to be able to stay at this company because I'm going to get furloughed and sure enough I did get furloughed so I got furloughed during that time I then chuffed into my creative juices and created hotels above par but I firmly believe that if I wasn't a travel publicist I don't think I would have been able to blow up hotel to both par as I could have, because I come from more of a publicist-y brain of like, let's blow this off as opposed to like, oh, maybe this angle sounds really nice to write about, and I love it, and it's great, but are people going to want to read it?

6:34And I came from that angle. Also, you know, I was able to see how, because I also have the social media experience, how to have a brand that appears interesting to millennials and how they're consuming their news and a lot of that plot during that time. So I think that also the social media aspect of it really prepared me for what I do today. I think what you're touching on is so important for people to hear because so often PR and social media particularly are written off as like fluffy and nice to have. And for myself as well, as I've started to build my own business, I am really using a lot of that PR skill, not just to figure out ways that I can promote my own businesses, but also like you just said, what is the hook?

7:23What is the angle? What is that newsiness-ness, which we need in everything, whether it's an email, a social media post, a podcast post, a story, it doesn't matter. What is the timeliness? What is the relevance? Who is your audience? So how do you think, well, I guess, let me back up for a second. Tell us about Hotels Above Par, what you've created, and then I want to hear about how you take all of that training to create what you've built today. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, Hotels Above Par, there was no publication that was dedicated to boutique hotel storytelling, at least not at a consumer level.

8:01I think trade, we've had like a couple of publications in boutique hotel, yay, and like, you know, they do a great job, but that's more of kind of a trade thing. but there was nothing for B2C that had to do with boutique hotels. And so I found that niche and I just kind of went with it. And today, you know, we have over 500 ,000 readers. We have a plethora of boutique hotels that we've had journalists write about. I wanted to empower journalists during this time, which is also, I think, contributed to our success because I believe that journalists are the best storytellers. And the fact that we were able to give them this platform when there's so much darkness in the whole media sphere right now was something that really, I think, attracted a lot of people who value editorial and media.

8:42So I would say, yeah, the boutique mentality element, us empowering journalists. And then another thing too is we knew that our audience was consuming media because a lot of our audience is millennial, was consuming media on social first. And that's how they were getting to our website. That's how they were signing up for our newsletter. So what we did is we put these posts that kind of acted as articles that fit in their entirety as we did these articles that fit in their entirety as an Instagram post and just kind of brought editorial over there. And in 2020, nobody was really doing that. Now I think so many people are doing that.

9:18But back in the day, like bringing editorial to social was something that was really, I believe what we were at the forefront and at the vanguard startup. Even as you're saying that, I don't think a lot of publications are still doing that today. And it is an interesting time in media. And we're going to talk a lot about this in terms of subscriptions and paywalls, right? You see a lot of publications giving you enough on social media to make you click to read the article. And then the article is behind a paywall. And you're in this moment of like, am I going to pay for this subscription or not?

9:51I think what you're talking about, though, when I think about whether this is embarrassing or not to admit how I consume my news, by and large, it's exactly what you said. I'm getting the headlines, the news first on social, and that is what driving me to then consume the rest of the article. Yeah, 100%. And the fact that ManyChat has come into the whole game is even propelling that whole social first, and that's where I'm consuming my news kind of like story. Yeah, absolutely. Can you give listeners and viewers a bit about what ManyChat is? Yeah, so ManyChat essentially allows a post. So let's say I'm posting something and it is a photo gallery of Casa Angelina, one of my favorite hotels in the world.

10:40And we put in a caption and we say, hey, if you want to look at this review of Casa Angelina, Brandon Burkson reviewed it, yada, yada, yada, comment Angelina, and we will send you the link to the review. And then it sends a link into that person's DMs, which makes it a lot more intimate of an experience. It makes it a lot easier than clicking the link in bio. And it just it blew it breeds a lot of conversions. And I think ManyChat has been really, really good for people who are bringing top of funnel from social over to their other platforms. I agree. I think if you're not using that as a tool right now, you need to be.

11:15Because like you said, I mean, I think back to when link in bio was the big thing. And you'd have to scroll down because we all know we're being served content out of timeline sometimes. times. You might have just engaged with something that they posted and now you're getting served something from three weeks ago and you want to read it. If you had to go to a link in bio, you're scrolling down, you're trying to be like, which article is this? This is so much more frictionless for the user where we can just type in da-da-da-da into the comment and then we get that link. It can also be a great way for email capture as well.

11:48So definitely encourage anyone who's listening to check that out. I want to go back to the fact that you started this during the pandemic at a time when travel was really at a standstill, coming out of negative moment in your own life. I remember the pandemic for myself as well. I was living in London. I was working for a travel company at the time. And I remember making three budgets. What would happen if I lost my job? What would happen if my husband lost his job? What would happen if we both lost our job in terms of how much money did we have to survive? How many months could we afford to continue to live before we had to use our last money to buy a plane ticket back to the U.S.

12:28and move in with one of our parents. So what was your mindset like at that time of hearing that you were furloughed? And how did you get to a point of saying, well, I'm going to take this into my own control. I'm going to launch something that is focused on an industry that is at a standstill right now? You know, that's a really good question. And because I had accumulated all these skills in PR. And I always conceived an idea of, you know, boutique hotels and media consuming that on social first, which is what we just talked about. I just created that Instagram page as a way to, one, support hotels during a time when they needed love most.

13:03It's an industry I loved very much. And as a way to also occupy my time because I was furloughed. I was back at home in San Diego. I had to move home. I was like living at my parents' house and I had a lot of time on my hands. And And so I created this Instagram page. And I think one of the reasons that it became very successful and kind of went viral is for a couple of things. One, because everyone was at home and there was so much wanderlust that people had in the back of their mind because nobody could travel at the moment. And they were like, oh, when's that next trip? And so the travel content kind of resonated.

13:40I mean, it had to be very kind of specific about the messaging and be gentle. We're like, when things get better, here's where to go. there's a lot of the at a lot of the time there you know that we couldn't go anywhere and it was also like unfavorable to be seen going anywhere travel wise so there's that and then i think a big thing too and this goes back to empowering journalists uh we would do these instagram lives um and now i look back on my instagram lives and they used to say the most current things and i remember getting so nervous before that but i would do that with these journalists who also were out of work at this time because nobody was traveling uh and we would just talk about it we would just talk about hotels and where we're going to go after this and like what pandemic travel looks like, what it could look like.

14:18And those were relationships I fostered for my PR career. And so those two things, I think like help solidify like what we do and, you know, fast forward it to today. I actually went back to my PR job and I was doing both jobs full time. And I was like 15 hours a day. It was insane. It was like, I got like no sleep. But then April, of 2021, I was able to save some and it created a website and a newsletter. And fast forward to today, we have around 500 ,000 readers and we have a newsletter that has about 96 ,000 subscribers with an open rate that's more than 65%, which is really good for that number.

14:55So I think that us sticking to that niche and empowering journalism was really what like solidified and like put things on a flip board for me. And since you went back to your job, once the world got a bit better, when was it that you realized this was no longer a side hustle or a passion project this was going to become a business and your full-time job so yeah no uh i had to save some money and we created the website and a newsletter and that's kind of when i was like okay i want to go full force with this and little by little we grew and i had megan shelton she's amazing she was helping me out too but we didn't have a lot of money and uh it then propelled to you know more partnerships and uh just that kind of thing.

15:37And we were able to slowly accumulate more and more and more. And now we're here today. But yeah, it was definitely really scary being like, okay, I don't know what to do because I have this stable job where everything is great. And the travel escape might not be as good right now because this was like the early 2021 when I went back to work. But I have still have this product and I will never let, I will always regret if I didn't take this product that was being received so well. to the next level. I knew that like it had a fan base. I knew that people loved it. It was refreshing for people. People were like, this time is so dark, but this dude is like telling us we're in travel, you know, when this is when all this is over and when we can travel again.

16:19And we love that. And so that's what I think also made me really want to go to the next step and take this as far as I could was people's reactions and how it made them feel so good during such a dark time. Yeah, I'm smiling right now because something you're saying is really resonating with me in the sense of asking yourself almost what would you regret more. And I think a lot of times it's hard to do that. I've gone through that recently myself of which road, if I didn't take it, am I going to look back and say, I wonder. I wonder if I just tried to launch that business, if it would have become something.

16:58Or would you regret saying, I regret leaving that stable job that I had right now. And there's not one right answer for anyone, but it's such a good filter to put those big moments of transition of your life through to really think like, which one am I going to regret? And maybe I'll take the chance on the uncomfortable one if that is the answer. So I really like that you're saying that. You're also touching on listening to your audience. You didn't choose to focus on this because you said, I love it and I love it alone. You had probably more than a minimum viable product at that point, but you saw the reaction from people and you knew that something was there and could become even bigger if you had the moment and the time to really focus on it.

17:46Absolutely, and I'm so thankful for our readers who've stayed with us till today. I honestly think it would be a lot harder to create a media company from scratch today because there's a lot of people you know who are creating sub stacks and creating like instagram accounts and especially within travel so i think that like i it was kind of advantageous to come up at that time because there was just a lot there was a lot less kind of noise and busyness online when it came to like travel accounts and that kind of thing so i think that i while it was a dark time and i i think that what it gave a glimmer of hope to people i also think there was not as much competition for something like what we do.

18:23Well, let's talk about that. Because number one, I am curious, how do media companies make money? You talked a little bit about like partnerships and such. But I also feel very confident that the reason for your success is not just first mover advantage. So what do you think people need to learn from perhaps your experience or that you're seeing in the world today to create a successful media company now? Yeah, so this is actually one of my favorite topics right after Boutique Hotel. So I'm excited to answer this. I love talking media strategy and all that. So what I would do today if I was starting from scratch is I would create a sub stack.

19:02I would create a sub stack. And the way that some sub stack allows you to have a two way conversation. And that is crucial today. If you are starting a media company, you must have a two way relationship with your readers. And sub stack allows that through comments, through sharing, through notes, that whole kind of thing. I would also say, honestly, Instagram's top of funnel, but lead people to your newsletter because Mark Zuckerberg can change the algorithm on Instagram in a second and it will suck for you. With a website, with Google, and it takes a lot of maintenance too to have a website, but an SEO can change in a second.

19:38Like what we've seen with AI, it's been completely upended. But your newsletter audience, there's no algorithm to that. that goes directly into your inbox it is the most loyal reader that you'll have and again like you own the audience and that and nobody can take that away from you no algorithm no sequence that it's like an update it's genuinely something that you've created and it is your it's your people so so i would say news invest in newsletter i would say like a lot of people try i think like to invest on Instagram a lot. Like, yeah, that's great. But like, make it top of funnel and direct people to your newsletter, the strongest media companies today are newsletters.

20:20And also, it takes a lot of maintenance to do for a website, when you do something on sub stack, it is basically done for you. You just click a couple buttons, you customize a little bit, it, there's so much more money that I've accidentally spent on my website that I could have just spent like, putting on sub stack or beehive, you know, as a newsletter. So yeah, that's my biggest piece of advice. And for people who are listening, who are either hoteliers or short-term rental owners, operators, what are some ideas that they could do for a newsletter? If they're thinking, I only own one rental or I only own one hotel, like what, or, you know, what would I even write about?

20:55What comes to mind when you think about that? I think it's all about niche media. I think we're in the age of niche media. I think generalization is something that that was a tendency of legacy media from yesteryear. And it's kind of like come into today at a lot of aspects, you know, people are coming travel as a whole, but like, I would focus on a specific niche, like our thing is boutique hotels, Maxine is Mexico travel. Like, if you're someone who loves coffee, and you love coffee, and you love coffee shops and everything, start a sub stack for coffee shops, like there's you will find your people.

21:30And today, we're in a world where we're in social bubbles. And I mean that in the sense that like, I'm getting fed what's in my algorithm. And I used to get upset, like, I'd be like, Oh, well, this person loves to travel, and they don't know what hotels above par is. And I get to get like upset. And I was like, well, you have all these beers, blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, Wait, I don't this person, he's taking a carnival cruise, like, they're not supposed to know about hotels above par because it's boutique hotels, boutique style establishment. So I think that you find your people within these social bubbles.

21:59And we're fed that kind of content and you will find your niche that way. So that's great. And you talked a lot about the importance of working with journalists and how crucial they are as storytellers. Talk a little bit more about that, I guess. And maybe even through that lens of other people's sub stacks, would you have them? Would you have a hotel work with journalists on that? Would you feature different voices? Should it really come from the voice of the hotel or the GM or the owner specifically? What's your perspective? Yeah, that's a great question. So actually, funny enough, we created a media brand for Costa Angelina called Angelina's Letters.

22:38And it is a first-person account of this fictional person who, you know, we use in marketing messaging, but it sounds very first-person and it's very personal. It doesn't seem like it's a promotional kind of sub-stack. But what I was going to say is that with journalists, you you're having someone who's mastered in storytelling and I firmly believe that there's a lot of merit behind someone who has a career in travel media that's not being like hey guys I'm here at the beach in Hawaii and a lot like for me that person's not an expert it's the journalist is the expert and also I a big thing is that a lot of these journalists have like quite big networks so what we did is we said hey okay like once you publish an article for us we'd be really appreciative if you could share it on your Instagram, on your LinkedIn, and in your sub stack.

23:28And that just kind of those journalists and their network and their ability to storytell and to have this appreciation for editorial is kind of what brought the allure of the writing that we do with Hotels Without Bar. I love that. You also spoke about something that I think is very important for us all to hear around this two-way conversation and how, especially in the media companies of yesteryear. It was the editors saying, this is cool, this is where you should go. And there was really no feedback loop. How do you approach that two-way conversation now? And how does that or does that shift what you will or won't focus on, discuss going forward?

24:12Absolutely. The two-way conversation is so important. So a lot of people respond to our newsletters. And I think that community is a big thing that you want to have with your two-way conversation with readers. So we've had events that sell out for our readers because people want to meet other people who love boutique hotels and boutique travel. And I think we were craving so much belonging and community during the pandemic that it was kind of pent up and it's still transcended into today. So having events for our readers, us doing the Instagram lives and Substack lives and having a reader's comment and having them share our, and we stack stuff on Substack and then reading our publication and then posting it and then we repost it on Instagram story.

24:49There's so many ways to get your audience engaged and you can see how they like your product and what you should move forward with. I also wanna say too that, you know, having a cross-platform approach is extremely important because the engagement you get on Instagram might be a lot different than the engagement you're getting on Substack. It's just a different type of reader, but someone who's interested in the same kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking as you're speaking, I recently had my very first brush with virality make a very long story short. I went to Ireland to visit this abandoned farmhouse that my mom recently inherited.

25:24It was the house that my great uncle lived in until about 20 years ago when he had a stroke and he moved into assisted living. It was the house that my grandmother grew up in. And I had been taking a social media class about short form video content. And I had been trying and trying and trying to do different things and nothing really felt like it was working. and then I went on this trip and I posted a video and it just absolutely exploded and I went from having around 5 ,000 followers to over 200 ,000 followers who are all hyper invested hyper excited about this Irish farmhouse renovation and I had a bit of a moment of like okay clearly the audience is there the audience is interested and they're commenting messaging me telling me that they need to know more about this story.

26:10And then I had a bit of a moment of myself of being like, but I don't live in Ireland. And this was something I planned to do very slowly. And how am I going to deliver on this? And almost being in a state of paralysis around not wanting to post the wrong thing now to upset the audience. How do you think about that dynamic? Because you are really coming at this, like you said, as an expert, as someone who loves this category as a curation filter, which is what we need in a world where there's almost too much choice. But at the same time, you want to have a two-way conversation. You want to hear what your audience is saying, and you might want to make shifts to your content because of it.

26:49Absolutely. So our audience is receiving something well, and I think all that goes into the analytics, right? So for our newsletter, if the open rate's a lot higher or the click-through rate's a lot higher, I know that that was something that our audience was interested in. So luckily today we have those tools and even on social too, you can see how many people I think likes are kind of meaningless hot take. But like I think comments and sharing, sharing is brilliant because if someone shared your post with their friend, they put that whole post on your friends into your friends network and everyone in their orbit.

27:21You know, when you repost something on your story too, it's like that same kind of thing. so yeah we listen to our readers a lot and we just go by analytics if someone if someone said that they don't like something and it's one or two people i'm like okay like i guess this is okay like but then if it's like i look at the analytics and from a larger scale like oh shit this post got like not a lot of shares and didn't really take off like i thought it was that's us listening to our readers just through analytics yeah large masses of them telling us what is working what's not. So right. And how do you decide if it's the content or if it's the way in which it's shared?

27:57Because so much of the right social content performing well is how you package it. Yeah, I think that, you know, a big thing for us was doing videos, right? I hate making reels. I hate editing them. I like get so self conscious. Like I and so I we kind of came to an approach were like, hey, listen, like our reels don't do that well, like they get like don't get a ton of like views, but our carousels take off to extreme levels. So we're like, hey, like, let's put this content that we were doing reels and put it into an editorial kind of carousel that's different from like me doing like a green screen.

28:36And we saw that our audience, it resonated a lot with them. Like, we just did a carousel, for example, like two weeks ago, that we tried a video before the carousel garnered like over 400 ,000 views in like three days. So, you know, I think it's just learning what your audience is into when it comes to consuming their news on social on your newsletter. So I think that that's just a big thing for sure. And having the ability to keep trying, right? Like you just said, Oh, we didn't give up on that story. We said, Okay, if the reels not working, and I don't really like doing them, should we try carousels?

29:10You did mention earlier too about feeling this word cringe that we all know and resonate with and immediately have felt ourselves. How did you get over that? Listen, like I sometimes still look at like the Instagram videos or the lives that I did like, you know, five, six years ago. And I would, I would just ask cringe questions. And I think that I just kind of got, I was like, you know what, this is, this is what I'm doing. And like, I'm going to lean into it. And if something's cringe, and I get bad feedback from it, I'll just know that like, I don't want to do that again. So I would rather approach a different way.

29:42I think something that's fun to also give an anecdote about too. And I would do this during the pandemic when I was in San Diego. I had a friend who worked at Radio Formula, and I'm fluent in Spanish. And they were like, hey, we love hotels so far, we would love for you to do a travel segment every Friday on our morning show. So I would drive to the US side of the border, and this would be casted out to Tijuana, like Ensenada, Los Angeles, like all Spanish speakers there. And I would answer questions. I would, I would begin the segment saying like, Hey, like when the pandemic is like over and you can go like, here's some regional places to visit in Mexico for like the Mexico audience.

30:21I, my accent at that point was so cringe. I look back at it. And some of the things I said were just so out of touch because we were going through a pandemic that I'm like, Oh my God, I can't believe I said that like on a like radio. That's the, that's it. But you also, but you still did it. Like how many people would say, Oh, my accent isn't perfect in my, I would imagine that English is your first language and Spanish is your second language. Is that right? Yeah. So it's like, of course, of course your accent isn't perfect. It's your second language and you still did it. You still put yourself out there and, and got the exposure for the company.

30:58Yeah, it was fun. It definitely got a lot of exposure. I loved it. Like I, languages are a big passion of mine. So I learned Spanish growing up in high school and being from San Diego. And so, but it was so funny because I was like, I gotta work on my accent after listening to it. Like, you know, the first couple of times. At a time when people often still say print is dead, you launched a first of its kind quarterly newspaper subscription. Why? Katie, it's all about newspapers and newsletters, I like to say. You know, I think that producing a magazine is a lot of money. and a lot of indie publications don't have that kind of money i was like i'm not spending on another magazine like i love the way it feels it looks great but like i i can't afford that so what i was like you know with newspapers that's a very intimate experience and it's a lot easier to produce and a lot less a lot cheaper to produce as well so i was like what if he created this newspaper that is a nod to what the legacy publications had been doing like wall street Journal, New York Times.

32:04So that's been a way that we've been consuming news for so long. What if we need something that would travel centric towards our niche? And I kind of, I found a company and we designed the newspaper. We had a, we had an editor who commissioned the stories, Dan Howarth at the time, and we created this newspaper. And it just, it was received so well, because I think that everybody was expecting to see like a magazine or they were expecting to see no print at all because I do think print has more of a resurgence in big cities. So the newspaper, it's an intimate experience. It's kind of a nod to the legacy publications.

32:38They've been consuming the news. We've been consuming our news via like those newspapers for hundreds of years. So why not bring it to the new age media era? And that's how we kind of created the newspaper. Also, again, it's a lot cheaper than creating a magazine. So I think that if a lot of indie publications, if they want to go into print, I think going into a newspaper format, you know, designing it 12 pages, having editors and writers write for it is a lot more feasible than a magazine. Yeah. You know, it's interesting too. Now I'm a mom. I have a four-year-old and a one-year-old. And so the amount of time where I can like sit and read something is pretty rare anyway.

33:14But I have noticed I don't like the fact that they always see me on devices. They don't know that I'm reading the New York Times or they don't know that I'm reading a book or on my Kindle. they don't know that I'm writing when I'm on my laptop they just see me on a device so I do think there is something really beautiful in what it conveys externally too not that that should be why we're reading something to begin with but to show like I'm reading something right now as opposed to like I am on my computer yet again yeah a thousand percent and also too like with these events you've been having people are really into IRL experiences and going analog I I believe in stocks and staff that on Google searches have gone up by like 300 % for like analog style events.

34:00Interesting. What do you think is meant by that specifically analog style events? So I think a big thing is like, again, of these events, people meeting in real life have forming these human connections because we're always in the digital sphere for such a really robust amount of time. So, but, you know, a great example is Emily Sundberg, who writes Feed Me on Substack. She has created a community and started events before we were doing events through that newsletter. And it's people who are into business enterprise and media, and kind of the zeitgeist of what's going on in the tech world. And she created, she kind of was the first person to be like, hey, like, let's have these events and have my readers come to them.

34:44And they can come meet me because this is a two way relationship. And kind of going off of that model, it just creates connection. And the ability to have a connection with someone and people who are within your social bubble is something that's paramount these days. Mm-hmm. That's the second time that you've used the word community. And I think that that's a really important word that people often misunderstand. Community is not necessarily just the people who follow or who read, right? How do you actually create a Hotels Above Par community as opposed to create amazing, beautiful content that you hope your followers, your readers enjoy?

35:21Yeah. A big thing, again, is that two-way conversation. So the comments, leaving emails that they're sending me after a newsletter goes out and me responding to everything. You've got to respond to everything. And I learned that later. But if someone really likes your newsletter and they're like, hey, I loved your piece on like Waxaca, you know, yada, yada. I will now, before I was like, oh my God, I have so much to do. And like, I don't have time to respond to this. But like, I like, I'm so flattered, like words of affirmation are my love language. So, but I was like, okay, I need to start getting back to these like more diligently.

35:54and my community grew even more than that. So, you know, creating these relationships with your readers. I also think a big thing is like a lot of these people who are reading our page are also working in travel. I think they're working as travel advisors or they're working travel media or they're working, they're people who appreciate hotels and who appreciate, you know, boutique hotels specifically. So I think that it's also meeting people who are in your same work area and with your same interests. And like, I just think that that's how community is driven. I don't think it is driven by, you know, an amount of the amount of likes you get.

36:31It's about the responses and someone sharing your content with someone else. And that makes it even more of a gives it even more of a reach, you know? Yeah, I really agree with what you're saying. I also think what you just said, you must respond to all is so crucial. And especially in this AI age, this many chat age. and I love ManyChat. I think it is so important. But we can tell as a person when we're getting an AI-generated response or when someone is actually responding to us. And I did something similar to what you just said recently. I had someone message me and I thought to myself, if someone's taking time out of their day to message me and tell me I had done a course for the independent host community, she said, I took your course.

37:15It was so helpful. I loved it so much. Really like a lovely message. And she was asking me my opinion on colored versus white linens. I'm very team white linen in short-term rentals because I come from a hotel background. I think there should always be white bedsheets. And I thought to myself, I should write this back to her. And very similar to you, I thought, I really don't have time right now. It's going to take me so long. And so I took a shortcut for myself, but also at the same time, I thought, maybe this will actually build her loyalty that much more. And I sent her a voice message back through Instagram.

37:47So rather than writing it out, I just was like, hey, just figured it'd be quicker if I just gave you a voice note. Here's my thoughts. Thanks again for sending me that message. It really made my day. Her response back to that was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I got a voice message from you. I'm fangirling right now. And I'm over here like, who, me? You're fangirling me? But I think what you're talking about is like, we all just want to be seen. We all want to be heard. We all want to know that spending time reading someone's website and then messaging them, that person appreciated you doing that.

38:22Now, the likelihood of those people going and telling somebody else, you've got to read Hotels Above Par, you've got to subscribe to this newsletter is going to be bigger than if you didn't respond at all. 100%. And it goes back to that relationship with your readers. And if they're giving the time of day to read your stuff, like you give the time of day to comment back on what told you. So yes, that is that's community right there. You have now visited and reviewed probably countless hotels at this point. What is the first thing you notice when you walk into a property? Oh, that's a good one.

38:55So two things. I think first off is the front desk of the bellboy, how friendly they are, how engaging they are, because a lot of the time, you know, this bellboy or this front desk person is your first impression of a city. And I firmly believe that. I think it's exciting. I think it really paints a picture of the beginning of your experience somewhere. So I would say that the warm service kind of like, oh, is there anything to get you or like addressing people by like their first and last name and like, or, you know, being like, oh, I know you came in from, you know, Reno, how was the drive or whatever it is.

39:28So I just think the personalization and like being made like your feet, like you're supposed to feel important is a big, big thing with hospitality. And again, it really paints a picture of your first time in a city. Another thing too is I love design. So if the design narrative, if it has something core individualistic to it, if it has a story behind it, like I always notice that. I'm like, oh, what was the decision for the wallpaper here? The furniture, you know, being the brassy. And it's like, oh, this actually used to be like a copper mine. And there's so many cool stories to be told. So I always have to say the service at the beginning and then also the design narrative.

40:07Yeah. Yeah. Brandon, I want to ask you the last three questions that I ask every guest. And the first is, what is the best hospitality experience that you have ever had? Ooh, okay. Costa Angelina, I'm not just saying that because, you know, we work with them a bit. I knew that I've been going to Mahochana for eight years and the service there. You have breakfast and God forbid you go and take some eggplant farm. The person who's working the buffet is like, absolutely not. I will get you your eggplant farm for you. And literally will just go like right in front of you, get the eggplant farm, put it on your plate.

40:46And then you sneeze and they're like, here's a tissue. Like that service is just so unparalleled. And especially, I mean, who doesn't love Italy? I firmly believe that if someone doesn't like Italy, they're a sociopath. Like it's just the most amazing, friendly, warm, just magical countries. So I'll say that. And then the service in India is remarkable. I think that Indian hospitality is some of the best. A lot of the Bucic hotels I've reviewed in Rajasthan, the service was just amazing. In Goa, I stayed at a hotel called The Postcard and people were so friendly. They escorted me over to, you know, if I was like, oh, wait, can I go to the business center?

41:26like oh and they would they would take me there it's just like small gestures of that that make you feel so important so i would have to say the postcard hotel indian hospitality in costa angelina amazing on the opposite side what was the worst hospitality experience you've ever had okay i got i feel like it'd be on brand if i if i knock down a big big big brand because because i don't normally feature them but i stated a malia uh caribe and the dominican inter-republic in punta cana which i famously wrote a story that kind of went viral after that called i hated punta cana so i went here instead um it was the malia caribe and the service was horrific like there were like cockroaches um it was like everything went wrong it was a bachelor weekend and just like everything that we'd say it just like kind of like went to dust and it was a lot of it was because the hotel just wasn't on so yeah i'm gonna have to say that mega resort and come to Ghana.

42:20Yeah, that sounds terrible. Final question for you. What does hospitality mean to you? And is there anyone, it could be a person in your life, it could be a brand that you think has truly mastered it? I think that someone who really, really has mastered it is Taj Hotels. They have a really great way of making you feel important. And I was going to say them when you asked me the question, but I was like, I should probably focus on boutique. Like Taz, from the second you get there, you know, they make you feel really important. And I believe that that's what, again, hospitality is meant to do. It's making you feel welcome.

42:54It's making you feel like, oh, you know what? I just got off a plane and I am just ready to chill. Like having my room ready or having someone escort me up there or like having everything just like set open for me. So I don't have to go through like the modalities and processes of checking in. That's it just, that's what it is. So yeah. Brandon, this has been so much fun. Thank you for taking the time to talk to us today. Thank you for having me. All right, everyone. It's time for today's sweet summary where I break down the key insights and actionable takeaways from today's conversation. For decades, hospitality has focused on perfecting the guest experience once someone arrives on property.

43:31We spend millions designing beautiful hotels, training staff, and creating memorable moments in hopes that guests leave happy enough to come back or at least tell a friend. But Brandon argued today that the most successful hospitality brands are building relationships long before someone books a stay and long after they check out. They're acting like media companies. Whether it's a newsletter, a podcast, social media, or original content, they're consistently showing up in people's lives with something valuable. Not because they're trying to make an immediate sale, but because they're earning attention and trust over time.

44:12But it's not just about publishing content. It's also about listening. When someone takes the time to comment on a post, send you a DM, or reply to your newsletter, they're giving you something incredibly valuable. Insight into who they are and what they care about. The brands that treat those interactions as the beginning of a relationship, not just another KPI in a marketing deck are the ones who are building true communities. That's exactly what Brandon's done with Hotels Above Par and what he's aiming to do with the launch of Maxine. He's not just sharing his opinion. He's having a conversation.

44:52He's not asking, how do I get people to consume my content? He's asking, how do I create content people actually want to consume? Instead of forcing the audience to adapt, he is adapting to the audience. Whether you're running a boutique hotel, a global hospitality company, or even just building your own personal brand, to me, that's the biggest takeaway from today's conversation. Stop trying to sell and start trying to earn attention. Because when I think about the strongest brands today, they aren't just places to stay or products to buy. They're communities people actually want to be a part of.

45:32And that concludes another episode of Sweet Success. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please subscribe, rate, and review the show. We all know how important those five-star reviews are. I also want to say a massive thank you to each and every one of you for tuning in. It means the absolute world to me. And I'd love to hear from you. If you have ideas for future guests, new topics to cover, or even just want to say hi, don't be shy. Message me through our website, sweetsuccesspodcast.com or on social media at sweet success podcast. That's sweet like hotel suite. Once again, I'm your host, Katie Klein, and I'm super excited to see you all next week.