Andrew Ridgeley

0:03Hello and welcome to Table Williams. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm in charge of the meal today mum. How are you? Fine, darling. I'm actually doing quite good innings in this series. Yeah, you are. Particularly with breakfasts. Yeah, you're good at breakfast, darling. How are you, Mum? I'm okay. How are you? I'm okay. Got back from Portavino. How was your luxury trip? I mean, you know, it was work, but with a bit of luxury. It was a bit of work and a lot of luxury. Yeah, it was luxurious, to be honest. And I ate very, very good food. I drank the greatest Negroni of my life. unfortunately i had to drink it before i had to do a gig that night so i couldn't have another one um but paolo in portofino splendido mare go and have paolo's negroni it will change your life so i'm on food duty today and inspired by my italian getaway i have decided to do well actually also inspired by somebody that you're probably knowing about now because i always look on his Instagram I only get my recipes from Instagram now I've decided um good old Ed Smith rocket and squash on Instagram his Saturday eggs that he always offers he did one the other day I was in Italy at the same time I thought well why not bring it back for a Tuesday podcast it was folded eggs with slow roasted tomatoes and parmesan so I've got Isle of White tomatoes that I've shoved in all different colors put it in low oven with some salt and olive oil and some oregano from the garden that's been going on whilst been taking kids to school folded eggs i think potentially could be awful but why are they called folded because they're not scrambled and they're not a omelette so it's folded like shit's creed folded did you fold it like paper or did you just fold it i don't know if it's even going to be folded at all or just pushed around a bit anyway then with some parmesan on top bit of rocket on the side with some lemon juice some sourdough bread, toast you've brought some pastries from Ayers in Nunhead, which we love and we have Andrew Ridgely on one of the members of Wham who have got the most charming can't we give people a clue before they do that well they're going to be do do do do do do whoo whoo yeah Wham Bam thank you Andrew Ridgely you probably know all their songs because I was playing them when I was pregnant with you wake me up before you go go Young Guns Wham Wrap Drinks are free Last Christmas Careless Whisper Andrew Ridgely who was a member of Wham with George Michael is coming over to talk about that fantastic documentary that's on Netflix it was very much done like the supersonic Oasis one where there's no seated interviews face on it's taken from many different interviews from George Michael of course because he's no longer with us um and then andrew also speaking over it so it's just really you're in it you feel like you're having a conversation with them and it's really action packed also god bless andrew richly's mum who made scrapbooks um so there's so much amazing content in it memorabilia cuttings um all of it it was a real insight into the journey of wham which was actually quite short-lived but did they live did they live um four years of fun and just a friendship that started at such a young age and carried on and was just so brilliant.

3:35Andrew Ridgely, coming up on Table Animals.

3:46Welcome, Andrew Ridgely. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. We met. Both of you. We met in... We're all friends now. We met in... We're bosom buddies. But it's funny. we met very early in the morning on Radio 2 and had loads of fun with Zoe Ball she's just amazing brilliant broadcaster and so warm and funny, massive Wham fan too that helps, does help loves the shutter box I feel like you're about to get a load more Wham fans from this documentary, I watched it it's amazing I think that Chris Smith the director really has come as close as anyone, I think, to sort of identifying what made Wham slightly sort of unique and its attraction to people, which I think essentially was, you know, people could see the fact that Jog and I were extremely close.

4:46And I think that has an attraction in itself. So, yeah, I thought it was about friendship as much as music and loyalty and love for each other and promoting each other. I mean, I've found it really wonderful. Yeah, well, I'm glad you saw it in those terms, because I know that that's exactly what Chris was trying to convey, was the essence of what Wham was all about. And that was it, really. Wham kind of evolved, was just a development of our friendship insofar as we'd had the school band, and then we continued writing songs together because we couldn't see any other way. We didn't have any more friends that played instruments, so they'd left the school band.

5:29And so it was, you know, it was just the songs were our comments on our experience. So Wham Rap, Club Trop, Careless Whisper, which were the first three that we wrote. Oh, my God. How young were you when you wrote those? You were teenagers? Yeah, we were 18 when we wrote those. But that's just, I feel, I think what, for me, I got from the documentary, apart from the beautiful friendship and also realising that you're dead cool, Andrew. And you are like, I don't know. I thought you were dead cheeky. So cheeky. But yeah, I just think that it's amazing. I mean, the idea that you wrote those songs when you were, maybe the naivety was part of it as well, that you didn't have people, record execs in your ears and things like that.

6:13So there was just freedom. Yeah, we did. We were fortunate in many ways. We weren't A &R'd. Mark Dean, who signed us, who was a friend of mine. He was part of a social circle. Mark Dean, if people haven't seen the documentary, signed you in a greasy spoon. Yeah, Mark Dean was an extremely good A &R man. And he'd had a hand, I think, in signing ABC and I think perhaps Soft Cell. He'd been at Phonogram or Polydor, can never remember, one of the Ps. And he lived down the road. He'd been to the same college, sixth form college as I was at. And we had a mutual friend, Mark Chivers, who they had a sort of post-punk band.

6:56This was 78, 79, called The Quiffs in Bushy. And yeah, and they were proper punk, but they were a bit after the fact. So they, whilst they gigged around town, but they never, they never got a gig. Mark Chivers, Pete O'Sullivan, Angus McLean. They never had a drummer. George, actually, famously. Drummer for them? No, no, he auditioned. He didn't get the gay guard. He auditioned, but his image didn't really fit. He wasn't punky enough. Or his quiff wasn't big enough. He didn't. He had neither. He didn't have a quiff. No, they didn't have quiffs. He had big hair. He had these great big guards at the time.

7:40He better have big hair as well. You had a fabulous... There was a moment when you had a mullet blowout. It was quite a look. I was trying to grow long hair. This was about 84, and it was unsuccessful. It just went outwards. In a variety of ways. That's like your brother. He can't grow it long. It just goes that way. Yeah, it did bush out a bit. What was funny about that, one of the many things that was funny about trying to grow long hair, was it continued through our trip to China, and then I realised that actually it wasn't successful. it wasn't going to be a John Taylor long mane and so I had it shorn off and when we got back to the UK after the trip to China George decided we needed to re-record some of the stage footage and I had to have a wig made oh my god that's amazing so in the video for Freedom I am wearing a wig wow have you still got the wig?

8:43no the wig was used for fancy dressing no longer exists. I mean, your mum's scrapbooks puts any Jewish pushy mother to shame and tell you. Mum, how many scrapbooks? Like 40? 41, I think. They're just amazing. Okay, you've just come here on the bus. Yes. I didn't think a member of Wham was going to get the bus down to New Cross Gate, like bus garage. Dead easy. I like you even more. I like you even more. the wham I'm like you're cheeky you're health conscious you get the bus I don't get the bus that much yeah I get the bus all the time I like the number nine is my favourite where does it start and where does it end up number nine goes from Fulham Broadway to I think it goes to Aldwych yeah I think that's where it ends up but it was one of the first of the new route master buses when you used to be able to get on the back as well which for health and safety, you can't do any more.

9:46It used to be fun that when you'd jump out, wouldn't it? Yeah, it's great. Tom, my stepson, who was married at the weekend, we had, between the wedding and the reception, we had an open-top buster in the old Routemaster, which has the little space for the ticket collector to stand. It's a sort of cubbyhole, you know, head height, that you stand in with it. Unfortunately, there was no ticket machine, so I couldn't know. Tell us a bit about, you grew up and I was interested in your dad's Egyptian. Well dad was part Egyptian. Part Egyptian. Yeah, his mum was Italian, his dad was, I'm never quite sure whether they were Yemeni or Egyptian of Yemeni extraction, there were certainly, I think they had as I understand it, the family on my father's side, on his father's side, had come to Egypt from the Yemen and they were Arab Jews and my dad's mum was an Italian Jew how do you get that surname?

10:50Richly sounds so British yeah well he grew up in Alexandria and was sent to a British public school and the family were expelled during the Suez Crisis at 24 hours notice and and they were they were given choices of where to be sent to as it were some went to Israel some went to France and my dad I think he was already in the he may have already been in the RAF at that time because being a British subject I think he had to to do national service so he came to England and the family name was Zachariah, which I actually, I wish he hadn't changed because I'd have been the last on the register.

11:46Why would that be good? Well, it'd be AZ, wouldn't it? Andrew and Zachariah. Oh, yeah. Okay, fair enough. You could be first or last, really, in different situations. Yeah, first and last, which I probably have been on many occasions. but so he he was around it was Richmond way and he was on a bus and he saw a row called Ridgely Gardens or something like that and he chose that as our family name which I have to say I think benefited probably benefited us growing up because people don't know who you are you're more anonymous Well, we were just English, you know, and I grew up feeling thoroughly English.

12:31Whereas I think for Yog being Yorgos Panartu, it was always a juxtaposition. His name and his sense of being an English kid in an English school with a name that wasn't English. I think that would have created, or did, create some difficulty for him. I don't think you ever really know quite where you stand because of that. I think that's true of lots of children of immigrant families that you're not sure where your foot is, to be honest. Yeah, well, I think Dad did me a favour, both my brother and I, in that sense. So you've got an older or a younger brother? younger yeah so do you think that that may be i know that you talked about in the documentary that he was the new kid and they said who's going to look after him do you think that maybe pulled you towards feeling like you wanted to be or was it just chance that you were sat next to each other no it was a the um he was brought in by the our form tutor and um and the form tutor asked you know who was going to look after the new boy and i'd never had a new boy delivered on to me before so I put my hand up.

13:49Did you practice any Judaism? Did you have any Jewish... No, my dad was an atheist. Oh, okay, fine. And where's your mum from? Mum was English. She grew up in Twickenham. Scottish and English are her roots. What do you think you are? I'm English. So you're English, okay. Thoroughly English. I like two cups of Imperial Earl Grey tea, black in the morning. Okay. Two pieces of toast, cold, thin, one butter, a little bit of salt, the other, Frank Cooper's... You're sounding like a bit of an American psycho. Carry on, carry on. Frank Cooper's which marmalade? Oxford. It's a bit Kathy Bates misery too, I'm not sure.

14:35Does it have to be at a certain angle, the knife, as well, Andrew? Is this okay? I'm now terrified about cooking for you, but carry on. There's symmetry in your life. How thick is the butter? On the toast? Thinnish, actually. But I like proper butter. There's some very good Cornish butter that is made, which I can get when I'm back up. Or the French salty butter. None of that far enough. Oh, gosh. I was about to offer you the French salty butter, but I will put it back in the fridge. Okay, so that's what you have every morning? Yes. So we're cooking for you. If I'm on my tod, that's what I like.

15:21Have you eaten a bit this morning? Yeah. So you've had your toast? Yeah, but when I say thin, I mean almost Melbourne. Yeah, let's talk about this precision, Andrew, because word on the street is you're a perfectionist when it comes to being in the kitchen. I think that's probably fairly close to the truth. You've thrown a whole bowl of fresh pasta out if you've cooked it for 30 seconds too long, I've heard. that did happen on one occasion yes yeah i'm very particular about how the pasta is cooked uh yeah i these days i mean i don't actually cook from uh these days because uh i can't see the point in cooking for one but when karen and i were living together i did mostly cooking she is an outstanding cook she can cook anything from anything now this is karen of bananarama who you went out with for a very long time we did step out for a considerable did you meet on the band-aid song no no we we we knew each other sort of mutual friends from the mid 80s okay um and then we our relationship started in 90 and she's an amazing cook yes she is yeah she's yes she so she can she can cook from sort of anything i i religiously followed uh recipes until i sort of got to a point where i could my piece de resistance is saffron was also with a um pork and fennel salsicha and a red wine tomato reduction that sounds delicious it is it is exceptionally good i had it at a hotel in chavinha and the um fun of the guy the the hotel owner was was that year's president of the Raleigh and Chateau.

17:08And food was outstanding. We were served this dish on one evening. And I asked the chef if I can have the recipe. And he gave me the recipe. And I put it somewhere safe and couldn't find it for years. And I was trying and I was cooking this and it was never quite right. And I knew that there was a missing ingredient. And the missing ingredient was there was a glass of white wine as well as red wine in the reduction. So that makes all the difference. So you like food? Or you're a foodie? I like food a lot. So do you like Italian food? I like all food. There's nothing, apart from oysters, which I can't really eat anymore because I've had one too many bad times.

17:55Holy smoke, end of the world, Armageddon type events. yeah there's nothing I won't eat I'll eat tripe offal and you have a house in Cornwall don't you yeah so you've obviously eaten so well there too I believe where are some of your favourite spots in Cornwall? Oh well number 6 would be my favourite. That's the one where I follow the pastry show Chris McClurg I'm desperate to go there and it's Paul Zainsworth Paul Ainsley, yeah. Whereabouts is it? It's in Padstow. It's in Padstow. Okay, so that's like the food. But you can't get in, you have to book. I mean, the food at number six is at a level that, I mean, I've not been to the fat duck in Bray, it has some Bloomingdale's place, but it is superior to almost anything I've had elsewhere.

18:49It's proper event dining. Now, where else do you love in Cornwall?

18:56Malcolm Barnacott's steak and silt and pasty. absolutely for me the non-parais of pasties um it's not a it's not a traditional pasty and of which there are several good ones but the steak and stilton absolutely so it's a it's a sort of a flaky uh there's so you know the short crust pasties there's flaky pastry pasties this is a flaky which and it works fantastically well chuffs used to do a steak and silt but they now do it with a with a cornish blue but cornish blue is a different texture doesn't work we've got i think the biggest foodie we've had i mean you're you're as obsessed about things as this is like that i'm loving this and now i'm terrified that my folded eggs are going to go to shit what do you eat when you're cycling what's your fuel um well you don't have an electric bike so it's all andrews yeah okay yeah well um whatever you can get your hands on to be honest it doesn't matter what you eat because um it's it depends what sort of cycling you're doing but so do you build up for a big cycle ride like lots of pasta like you're doing no no generally the rule is that that you kind of eat normally you you want a certain sort of protein bias to a degree and carbs at certain points.

20:14But, you know, we're not elite athletes. So generally, you eat whilst you ride. The idea, so that you can keep your energy levels up, is to eat regularly whilst you're riding, which is what the pros do. They eat while they're on the bike. Yeah, it's a drag. Jesus. Most of the stuff that you eat is very, very sweet because you need the fuel. Yeah. There's no way around it. that immediate sugar conversion to energy, you need that. See, clearly I know nothing about exercise and conversion. Yeah, because that wouldn't be my... Yeah, I mean, you do get sick of it. And do you wear shorts? Yes. No, well, I kind of imagined you walking in your one shorts today, but you didn't.

21:03You walked in trousers looking perfectly normal. Who chose all those outfits? Was that you? Largely they were, they developed from our sort of, what we were wearing. What we wore when you were clapping. Yeah, I mean, we only had a couple of outfits between us, probably three, maybe four outfits at the most. And we rotated the clothes initially. I had a shirt, a black and white shirt which appears in several shots and George has it on as well. and his string vest, which I wore on a couple of shots. So, yeah, we had... But didn't everybody want you to wear their clothes? So the Choose Love. Yeah, that was Catherine Hamnet.

21:58Yes. And that stayed that... Well, we appropriated the big letters on the white T-shirts for Choose Wham. Choose Wham. Yeah, but it was a Catherine Hamnett design, the cheese lighting, but we thought it was an appropriate... Did you know her? No, no, didn't really know any fashion people. So you used to... So when you were young and you were friends from school and you used to go clubbing a lot, where did you go? We went all over. We used to go into the West End. We used to go to the beetroot and we used to go to mud club, Where was Beetroot? Beetroot was on Greek Street, I think. But initially, when we were younger, it was 16, 17, we used to come up to town and used to go to any old dive and just go disco dancing.

22:52We used to go to Harrow and we used to go... But then when I met Shirley, or rather when Shirley and I started stepping out together, which was... I met her the... She'd gone to the same school, so I knew of Shirley. She was in the year above. anyway when we started stepping out we used to go to bogart's in yeah in in because they had a they had a sort of neuromantic night on a tuesday where they played sort of alternative because at that point in time disco kind of petered out and there was this sort of funny lull where where there was a it was shallamar and and sort of not really the sort of disco dance stuff that i like nor george night and so we'd go to Bogart's, we'd go to various places, New Penny and Watford had a Monday was the new romantic night and they played things like Blue Ronda and a Turk and more esoteric perhaps the avant-garde side of dance and at that point in time that whole scene had been born really out of punk and an alternative scene, the new wave and there was an evolution of New Wave, bands like Haircut, Blue Rondo, Spandau, all sort of came about in that late...

24:11So who were your biggest influences? Well, musically, really, Jog and I bonded over Elton John, but we had really wide and Catholic taste in music. he never admitted it but we were fans of Genesis we went to see Genesis at Earl's Court in 78 and at Nedworth I don't know how folded they are but I attempted the fold they're very folded I can see folds there's some slow roasted tomatoes with a bit of oregano and parmesan I say well I'm going to have a little taste nice very nice eggs ok good what are you doing at the moment? you're busy yeah very busy with promoting the Echoes from the Edge of Heaven singles collection and the Netflix documentary and also in developing further legacy projects Abba Hoyer, are you going to do a whambo that would be brilliant I would I think that's going to be the way that all legacy goes in actual fact I think the advances in technology I meant to see it, have you seen it Jessie?

25:38Yeah I loved it It's mind blowing isn't it? Would it be helpful because you could do your own dance moves I'm sure there are others that do better But you can't not believe that they're there You cannot convince yourself otherwise. No. I absolutely thought I was watching that. Yeah. This is delicious, Jessie. Really delicious. Thank God for that.

26:13I want to know about what was fuelling those mad Wham days, food-wise. What were you eating? or drinking, because you were massive stars. Probably you could ask for whatever you wanted. What was on the rider? What were you eating after a big, sweaty gig? We always beat a hasty retreat from the gigs. Jog didn't like to stick around. Why didn't he like to stick around? Because it was just so crazy outside? Yeah, I think to have to go through the scrum and spend God knows how long signing autographs and whatnot is not something that he wanted to do after a show. because you can end up being there for God knows how long.

26:55So the rider, we'd have a little bite prior with the tour catering and we ate whatever they gave us. Really? So you were just like the easiest to work with? Yeah, I was. Tell me more. You know, Yog's legendary stints with the hairdryer are stuff of legend indeed. so much so he there were times where you could smell the the burning hair because as he you know tried to get it as straight as possible. Young's dad was a restaurateur and I remember we'd go around there after school on occasion it was the Angus Pride in Edgware and I'd never had a steak it was at Jack's the first time I ever had steak when I was 16.

27:47Was it a great steak? It was a good steak it was a bit of a revelation because in fact we never had beef we have pork and chicken at home and lamb because it was cheaper but my mom was a good cook what was she cooking for you what were you requesting well no no in those days you didn't request anything you got what you were given yeah and you ate it and then you wish you had some more

28:17but because dad was brought up in Alexandria he had a a palate that so we had Middle Eastern mum would cook Middle Eastern stuff she'd do tagine, she'd do falafel occasionally so we developed a pretty rounded palate because he didn't have any choice because you ate what was cooked. The only thing I never liked was stovies on a Monday, which was cold roast lamb with onions and boiled potatoes sort of cut up and really didn't like cold lamb at all. I get you with the cold lamb because it's the fat that kind of comes around it and it all looks really sad and it's quite kind of powdery. It's not a good cold meat.

29:09No. Yeah, you never get cold lamb sandwiches, do you? No. No. It doesn't work. That was your Monday. Stovies on a Monday. Stovies? It's a Scottish dish. Oh, OK. And it was basically rough, sort of cut potatoes and onions served with yesterday's lamb. Yeah. And then Sunday would always be pilchards on toast. Did you like that? I liked it apart from the bone you know the bone that you had to you could eat the bone but I was never keen on that bone George's dad had a steak restaurant but were you eating lots of Greek food when you were going round to his house? Yeah there was quite a bit of Greek food so my first experience of taramassalata and hummus, dolmades I wanted to know if you were going to cook for us would you be doing the saffron risotto?

30:07Probably yes I think I'd like that. I really would like that. Will you give me the recipe? I will. Do you feel funny about it? Do you conflict with that? Did you hear he hesitated? He hesitated. There was a hesitation there. You did hesitate. There was a hesitation. Yes, but the answer is yes, because I had to think it's not my recipe. I am merely a steward. So, yes. We won't tell anyone. No, good. So, your last supper. You're going to have your last supper. You've got a starter, a main, a pudding and a drink of choice. What's going to go in that last supper? What would it be? I think, so, I'm allowing myself an amuse-bouche because I am.

30:53You can eat the whole day if you want. Oh, really? We had someone that ate the whole day. Do what you like. You're not going to eat for six months nicely. Ever. You're not going to eat ever again. Would it start with that cold toast marmalade? It would. It would definitely start with that. Mariage Frère Imperial Earl Grey, two cups, light infusion. Which make? Mariage Frère. I can't say I've got it. Apologise. It's only because that's the nearest place to me. But Fortnum is another purveyors of fine tea, but I'm sure we're doing an equally good one. So that, yes, with my two pieces of toast, one, butter, sea salt, the other, Frank Cooper's Oxford marmalade.

31:46The butter and sea salt. And then Frank Cooper's Oxford marmalade. Or actually, Wilkins and Son do a very, the tawny marmalade is exceptional. Then, Elevances. Yeah, you love an Elevances, I love those. So my Eletta, my DeLonghi Eletta cappuccino. Yeah. And, you know, I get that coffee is, everyone loves coffee, but Italian coffee is the only coffee worth drinking. You know, I hate to say it, but UK roasters don't come close. What about, like, Australian coffee places, like All Press? Do you not like their cappuccino? You're giving such a doubt. I've never seen you have such a dirty look on your face, Andrew, to be honest.

32:35Strictly Italian. It's Lovatza. You like Lovatza? Lovatza, top class. They're top class bean. I'd say, if you're going... You're losing me, Andrew. You're losing me. Lovatza? Really? Yeah. Really? Yeah.

32:52Gianluca, Lovatza, 1886. They know what they're doing. Are you a Virgo? No, my dad was. What are you? just you're not doing bloody star signs I don't know I'm just trying to understand Andrew's method and his obsession with no I'm an Aquarius so okay this cappuccino so Levant's the top class so top class is a really good all round mix great espresso and also fantastic cappuccino when you're in Soho where do you go cafe Italia bar Italia we just had someone last week and do you think they serve barista coffee No, they serve Italian coffee. But I love this. You live in central London, don't you, when you're here?

33:35Yes, I have a place in central London. How fun. Yeah, it's great. For food as well? Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, like, when you're not in Cornwall and you're here in central London, where's your first port of court? Bocca de Lupo. Oh, you... Okay, fine. What's the order? The... So, this is... So, we're going on to, aren't we, lunch? Oh, so it's Bocca... I haven't quite finished 11th. Okay, sorry, go on. With my 11th's, I will have to have some form of donut. Okay. So the Marks and Sparks Yum Yum. They are really good. That would be my sort of donut affair of choice to go with my cappuccino. Do you keep them in the house, Yum Yums?

34:18Yes. And can you manage just one? Yes. Okay. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that will last you a week then? Because there's usually four in a pack. Yeah. So I may not have 11th grade every day, depends what I'm doing. But yes, I will endeavour to... Only one. Have you done any exercise in between your toast and your yum? You've got to walk to M &S to get there, haven't you? No, generally I train in the afternoons. You train, you call it training. Yeah. It's a training, Mum. Mum, how long was the bike ride that you just did? How long was it? 10 days and 1 ,000 miles. Shit. It was John and Groats to Land's End, and it was pretty brutal at times.

34:58We had some shocking weather. Were you raising money for charity? Yeah, it was papyrus, the prevention of suicide in young people. I have a friend whose daughter unfortunately took her own life. In November 21, she was 17. So Ben joined me, and it was conceived originally as my birthday bino, my 60th birthday bino, and he asked if we could attach a fundraising element to it, which of course I couldn't say no to and wouldn't have wanted to either. So we, yeah, we've raised nearly 25K from a target of 10. Yeah, yeah. But we better make a donation later. Oh, well, you're very kind. Yeah, definitely.

35:40You're very kind indeed. It, you know, for Ben, certainly it gave it a real purpose. And I trained a lot with Ben. He's a very good friend of mine. And we spend, I mean, I started training January the 1st and most of the guys took it very, very seriously because it was... Well, I think you'd have to, otherwise you wouldn't be able to do it. No, no, that's true. That is absolutely true. You need stamina for that. Yeah, and for chaps our age, I mean, some younger chaps, I think the record for doing it is something ridiculous like 38 hours. God knows how you do that. 38 hours? Ours was not the quickest route.

36:20I wanted to take in the scenic route. But you were still doing 100 miles a day. yeah round about Jesus keep on talking about your last supper oh yes so you've had a coffee and a yum yum if elevens it yeah I have and then as it's my last as it's my last supper you're just going to have one yum yum or two yeah no no one I don't want to spoil my lunch okay sorry yeah I will have a pint of Harvids Sussex Best at the Harp Chandler's Place prior to my lunch. What did I use next? Sussex Best. Harviz. Harviz. What is it? Is it cider or beer? Oh my God. What is it? It's coffee. Nectar from the gods. Is it a drink?

37:14Yes. Is nectar from the gods a drink? What is it? It's England's finest example of a best bitter. Okay. And it is Harveys, brewed for centuries. And it's one of the very well-established breweries of which there aren't so many left. Would you describe this as a craft beer? No. I know nothing about beer. This is Ale of Old Albion. Okay, so you're going to be there with your tanker... What are they called? Tankered. Tankered, yeah. Yeah, sort of, but no, it'll be a straight glass. Fine, okay. So you're having that. So I'm going to have that prior to my lunch. And I think I will lunch at... I think I need to lunch at Wilton's.

37:59Wilton's? Yeah. At Wilton's or I'll get my chum Mark to do lunch at Brooks. Or maybe the Great Gallery. Where's Brooks? I think we've just got a... Wilton's? Is that the music place? No, no, Wilton's on German Street. I've never been. Oh. It's near... Oh. Oh. You need... Yeah. Maybe me and you will go. It's very English, darling. What are you going to eat there? Silver sauce. So at Wilton's, I will have smoked eel and horseradish to start. And then I will follow with the Colston Bassett Stilton souffle. That's what I'm going to have. That sounds quite yummy. And I will have a white burgundy. As it's my last.

38:39So you're going to... Is Brooks? Where is Brooks? Brooks is a gentleman's club. You're just with a load of blokes? Yeah. So, but Brooks is... I didn't see you like that. But I'll tell you why I like Brooks. is it's very similar to it in so far as you can have deviled kidneys for your lunch you can have it's it's you know traditional english which you don't fare that you just don't get anywhere else you can have lamb chops do you like roast beef and yorkshire pudding oh yes me too but hang on i just feel like you devil kidneys that's going in your last supper as a kind of thing is that like something that you pine after or you just want it as your last thing i really like devil kiddies i used to make devil kiddies myself actually but um yeah um they're not difficult to make no they're not they're dead easy but you've got to like kidneys yeah i love that would be the thing love them so brooks does all those things and it has savourish so you know so after you've eaten your meal you can have um welsh rare but or you can have sausages for your afters it's brilliant before you have so you've been in between so you don't have a sweet do you have a sweet too?

39:50yeah I do but but you've had your yum yum at 11 that's satisfying would I have something after probably not at lunch I'd probably save that for my teases ok what's your teases oh my god Andrew I love this cup of tea at 4 no it wouldn't be a cup of tea I probably wouldn't have a hot drink at 4 or I might have a little espresso and a piece of Malcolm Barnacott's Bakewell tart. That's probably what I'd have. Or, as it's my last, I will have a crumpet slathered in butter and strawberry jam, Boddington's strawberry jam. So Boddington's Cornwall, they have a... I mean, I don't know, 99 grams of strawberries in 100 grams.

40:45It's the most sensational. I might, actually, as it's my last, have a little half a crumpet and a scone. Just have a full crumpet and a full scone, Andrew. You're going to die. He's not going to fit his supper in. Are you stupid? You're going to die. I say go for it. Thank Christ, didn't he do all this when he was in Whammy? Wouldn't he be able to move? There'd have been no dancing. He would have just been like... I might go halves. I couldn't eat a whole scone and a whole... And I have got dinner. Okay, okay, okay. So now we're getting to dinner. So supper... This is really meticulous. This is kind of...

41:23It's my last meal. No, I know, but like... I mean, this is like... No, but I'm kind of... It's so specific. I like it. I don't think we've ever had this precision in our five years. My last meal will be at Bocca de Lupo. And it kicks off with the sage leaves stuffed with anchovy. Oh, yes. Are you having an aperitivo? Yes, they do a very nice vermouth, actually, a white vermouth, which is a lemony, herbaceous like they all are. Just neat vermouth, not with a drop of... A little ice and it'll have a tiny, just a twist of lemon. Yeah. But you don't go for a full martini then? No, no, no, I wouldn't.

42:15I'd have that, I'd have the little, the vermouth, and then I'd have a nice glass of probably the Fresco Baldi, Pimino Bianco, which is a sort of burgundy style Italian Chardonnay. And they also do the stuffed olive, which is a minced pork and veal and parmesan and chopped olives. breaded oh yeah oh my goodness do you want me to take you there as well yeah okay in fact I want to be one of your new ex-girlfriends that's what I want seeing as you have such good relationships with all of them they go in your and I can be your eating partner ex-girlfriend I'm actually I'm dining there tonight with Shirley and Pepsi oh I love that yeah yeah um yes and then I will probably follow that up with they have a there's a form what's the pasta called oh it's little twists trope trope Trophy?

43:05Yes, yes. I had it in... Trophyo. Yeah, Trophyo, yeah. Oh, I love that. With green beans, potato, and parmesan or pesto. Yum. And they do, what's nice about BDL is they do small plates. So you can have a couple without, you know, and share. Because I will be dining with a companion. So tonight... Is that a preemie patty? Yes. Yes, it would be. And then for your main dish, your secundi? Or secundo? Yeah. probably they do the sweetbreads they do grilled sweetbreads with artichoke maybe I would try it with you is it delish? yeah

43:46sweetbreads are delicious but they change the menu virtually daily so there could be things that as and when or should Andrew do you have your own table there? when you walk in they say I do have a spot Signor Ridgely come over would you have a pudding? yes I would ask them to make I can't remember the barman's name but he makes a scropino which is lemon sorbet that is sort of whipped up with vodka but I like it with gin as well and grated lemon zest that gives it the lemon zest gives it that real perfume and the citrus oils are really intense, so it gives it an intensity that doesn't have unless you grate the zest in.

44:43Have you ever been tempted to have your own restaurant? I have been tempted I did have a bar with some friends on occasion which had a restaurant we opened it the day that the markets crashed in 1990 I think so it didn't do well Where was it? It didn't survive. It was actually in Rickmansworth. Where's that? It's north-north, darling. Well, it's north-west. Is it Hertfordshire? Yeah, it's just outside the... Near Watford. What was on the menu? They did very nice quenelles. Very quenelles. Sort of like a fish mousse, hot fish mousse. Oh, this is the 90s. It's like mince fish, and then you kind of steam it and then serve it with a spume or something.

45:31Yeah, correto. It is a bit like a filter fish. Yeah, very nice. So, yes, that's about the only one that I can remember. I wanted to also know about... In the documentary, it talks about George coming out and sexuality, and around the time, it wasn't really noticed in the... He was on his own kind of journey of discovery and experiences but the press were more obsessed with you at that time and what you were up to and your romances and kind of being a bit naughty was that on purpose? Did you kind of talk to each other and go you know what I'm going to go and be at the front centre of every tabloid and to detract from him when he was kind of because I see you as a big brother to him you were looking after him always but was that ever a conversation or was it just complete?

46:23Yeah it was and we did very, very little consciously, except for the songwriting and the decisions with regard to career and what we'd be doing next. Outside of that, we didn't consider celebrity or the fame aspect as something that we either cared about, would utilise to enhance us as individuals, so I'm going to say personalities, celebrities, blah, blah, blah. It was just a consequence. It was a byproduct of what we did. And so, and because I was, you know, I had fairly glamorous girlfriends here and there. And I was, and you know, George, because of his sexuality, he was rather more discreet.

47:17and the places he went to weren't the sorts of places where you had paparazzi and the press. I mean, he didn't know when he was gay. When did you know he was gay? Well, I think he came to realisation fairly early on, insofar as his late teenage years really went to realise that he wasn't bi, but he actually was, you know, he preferred men. But it took him a little while to come to the decision to tell Shirley and I, me. But did you know? No, no, I didn't. And because we had girlfriends and he, I knew he had girlfriends here and there. And so it wasn't something that I was aware of. He did keep it very private.

48:11yeah um so so when it came to the you know the the press in general because i was out and about and and with girlfriends and rather poorly behaved on on occasion um that that was that was meat and drink to them so they they they loved they loved that yeah poorly behaved what you got drunk yes i can't imagine you being ever you know squaring up to a paparazzi it was just that you were having fun yeah you were younger having fun really cheeky um i i did not um the press and i had a very um antagonistic relationship yeah yes i i i didn't care for celebrity or fame it was it It was nothing that I'd ever aspired to.

49:04The only thing I ever wanted to do was to be in a band, make records and perform. And so the rest of it was just noise. And famously, there was an occasion where I think Yogg and I, I'm sure it was Yogg, we were at a club. And when we exited, the photographers turned their backs on us. And I thought, magnificent, I've won. And I remember Piers Morgan, he told the story that that's when my celebrity ended. Which, of course, absolute nonsense. But for me, that was a real win. You know, that they thought that I cared a jot about having my Vizog in it. Yeah, that's the difference, isn't it? Lots of people do music to be famous.

49:59and you did music to do music. Well, I don't know. I mean... Well, you think of some of the, like, X Factor or Pop Idol. Lots of people have gone there. I'm sure some have. They don't really sing and they become famous. Also, people feel like they need to seek press for validation, to be relevant, all of that. I find it really refreshing that you were completely uninterested, disinterested in that. And also, I think you say the most brilliant thing when you're doing that interview. I mean some of the press were so rude to you too I mean even like God rest her soul Paulie Yates calling you the mate and you you're about to go and do a sold out stadium farewell show and you laugh it off so brilliantly but then when you say I'm going to go out with grace you say and you really have I was going to say the same thing is it because you just felt like you could never reach that height of not fame but success again so you were just like you know what I've had a really good time with my best friend yeah it was largely that you know I'd achieved the only ambition that I ever held and that and that was to be in a band make with George with my best friend make records and be a success you know be make it the biggest and and so it obviously it was an ambition realized early in life but I genuinely didn't have any other ambitions I didn't really want I didn't at that point I wanted to step away from sort of the limelight because it was very intrusive at that point in time I had a very attractive girlfriend and the press scrutiny had got even more intense and I just wanted to remove myself from that so which so I went and I lived abroad and I didn't really have any other ambition or aspiration in music.

51:59I think what I probably should have done was knuckled down after a little hiatus and perhaps written more songs. And writing for other people as well, maybe. Yeah, yeah, but that wasn't something that I felt that necessarily would be an option for me. So I stepped back and life sort of took over in other ways, just generally speaking. I moved my girlfriend at the time, we lived in Monaco for a short while, and then we moved to the States so she could pursue her career. So that took me into the late 80s, and then I came back, and I recorded the solo album, which I didn't really want to do. I wanted to record a single, test the water, but the industry had changed, Sony needed an album.

52:48So, you know, I had to spend 18 months writing and recording, which was a bit ill-judged, to be honest. I think the style wasn't the right style for me to have chosen at that point. But I think it was a bit of a no-win situation. If I tried to replicate a wham sound, I'd have probably got no thanks for that either. And also George is doing very well, and then you become pitted against each other, and it kind of feels... Oh, well, I suppose it could have been that. But I think besides the friendship, that it was just your absolute loyalty to your friend and your... And generosity. And generosity, and that you celebrated his success and kind of promoted it and cherished it.

53:31And I just felt that was the grace for me, that you accepted... I mean, he was an extraordinary talent and his songwriting and everything, but the fact that you just were there and you supported it. Yeah, but... And you didn't say, oh, well, what about me? I don't know many musicians that have reached that level of success that would be able to do it as beautifully as you did it, Andrew. I agree. That's kind of easy to say, but, you know, he was my best friend and, you know, he was equally as generous with me in many ways. And, you know, the affection with which we held each other was a genuine one and endured.

54:14and I could only, you know, it's not in me to be resentful, not of him, and I was, from when it became apparent that his talent was really developing and that it was a talent of exceptional proportions, which was fairly early on, really, when he wrote Young Guns on the back of the failure of Wham Rap to be a hit first time round. We didn't have... We had a couple of other tracks that we were working on, but nothing of that quality. And he literally pulled that out of the bag. And that was a moment of, wow, this is slightly different gravy. And then he did the same with Bad Boys, which he hated because he felt compelled to write, to follow up on the success of Young Guns it was formulaic it's a really good track it's really well produced but the sentiment was somewhat inauthentic and contrived and he hated that he hated that aspect of it not being authentic but then Club Trop which we knew we couldn't release initially when we released the album that was the single that came out with the album and with the video it just liberated it liberated as i said in in netflix it liberated pure wham you know from that point it was like not doing this silly rebels without a cause a clue um and so and and we were able to to just be ourselves far more and and and at that point we were far more comfortable in in our presentation and our image and that became definitive, well, pure wham really and allowed us to sort of move on without any encumbrance.

56:15On that last show, the final show, was there any moment in that show where you were like, oh, I could do this again? Or were you very much like, you know what, thanks for the good times, see you later? No, I always wanted to. I love performing. you know it's where we formed our school band and and and you write songs you perform them you know maybe you'll get enough money together to record a demo maybe god willing you get a record deal so but you start off writing performing and and so and that i don't think that ever changes that's what is core and central to it and so um i i i'm a record as saying that i wish we had toured that last show and given our fans the opportunity globally to bid them farewell but I also understood Yogg's point that there could only be one final concert you know Elton John's kind of proved that otherwise 330 farewells you would have both been 60 now because I remember Elton mentioned in his performance at Glastonbury that that was George's birthday the day 35th he was performing yeah do you miss him oh of course yeah you know um one would miss one misses any friend i mean i've been very fortunate i haven't lost many friends many of my peers um andy lever died he was in our first school band he died tragically young and one or two others but But, you know, no one with whom I had such a close bond with.

58:02And so, yeah, there are moments, of course, that, you know, you wish that you could be doing things together or whatever it may be. So, yeah, he's missed it by a lot of people in a variety of different ways. And, you know, it's when you, especially him being, he and I having such a close bond. that sort of bond you only really form at school when you're immersed in each other every day in such an intense sort of way. You're learning together, you're playing together, you are wholly immersed in each other. And we were, and you don't get the chance to do that later in life, really. I mean, you do it perhaps with your wife or when you're courting.

58:53there's something very special about those school relationships yeah 100 can i ask you it may be too hard to ask but is there one nostalgic taste or smell that can bring you back to those wham days immediately well funnily enough that there would there would be two in actual fact because when our first kind of taste of life as it might be as wealthy urbane um sophisticated people our our publishers dick leahy and brian morrison two two giants of the the music publishing industry uh at the time and and our mentors in many ways they took yog and i to langans in 80 early 83 the hotel no langans okay where's that langans brasserie is still there yeah yeah yeah it's opposite green it's opposite green park tube station so you went there yeah so So that was a proper sort of celeb haunt in the early 80s.

1:00:07And it had a great atmosphere. It had a really sort of louche but stylish, sophisticated atmosphere. And Langans, it still does a spinach souffle with anchovy sauce. And Brian, who was a real bon vivant, Brian Morrison, he suggested that we try that and that was a real wow moment this is the way that one would like to live you said you had two moments yes and the other one so that was kind of my food moment in many ways following on from my steak moment at the Angus Pride Angus Pride when we were shooting the video prior to the shoot of the video uh for Club Tropical when we were staying in Pikes Hotel Simon Napier-Bell who um uh is is still alive and well I saw him when I was in Thailand earlier he was our manager yeah an extremely urbane and sophisticated um bon vivant and um Simon lived very very well and um we were dining at pikes and they had an a dining room uh which which was actually on the roof it was a roof terrace and he ordered a white rioca the marquez de murietta white rioca and it white rioca is a fantastic wine especially the marquez de murietta in this particular and it was a an absolute epiphanal moment it's like oh wow this is this is proper wine and and so yeah that moment so they are my sort of two food and drink moments formative and and um yes i still absolutely love that what was the cocktail on club the cocktail i think it was colored water to be honest okay Yeah, because it got poured into the swimming pool.

1:02:13But you surely were drinking on the job for that video. Yes, there was an actual really attractive barmaid. Oh, fancy that. So the attractive barmaid, do you remember what she was making you? Not really, no, I wasn't really looking at the drinks. You were looking at her eyes. I was looking at a bikini, to be honest. But, yeah, despite your reputation, it never puts the women off, Andrew, does it? It hadn't seemed to so far. And on that note, enjoy your dinner with your ex-girlfriend tonight. It's been a pleasure to have you, Andrew. Thank you so much for all your wonderful stories. I found it all so fascinating, and I implore everyone to go and watch the documentary.

1:03:11That was really lovely. I've never had such information given to me about particular... Food and drink. Yeah. Very precise. But he looks very precise, Jessie. He's very, very neat. Yeah. The way he eats is neat. Yeah. The way he, like, butters his toast. Very neat. The way he eats his toast. It's also quite... Not dainty, that's the wrong word. It's kind of... There's a symmetry about Andrew Ridgely. It's quite measured. Yeah. He was very polite and lovely and I've learnt a lot about food now. I know. Yeah. You're going to go for those deviled kidneys? No, not. I might go for the stuffed olive.

1:03:50Yes, defo. I'd like to go for that and I'd like that white wine that he drank, that seminal moment of white Rioja. I don't think I've ever had a white Rioja. No. I really loved chatting to him. I loved hearing his stories. I mean, I've seen the documentary, we've seen it, and that was so warm and generous and he just is... He's a gracious man. Yeah. I just find it really funny that they have to leave a venue straight away to avoid the hordes of screaming fans and now he's getting the bus to the house and probably not getting bothered at all and he quite likes it that way, right? He has a life that isn't...

1:04:28I don't think he ever did want the celebrity. He wanted the music, didn't he? That's what he said. Yeah. That was not the thing that he ever wanted. And he walked away from that. That makes him so cool. Yeah, very. Very cool. Andrew Ridgely, thank you so much for coming on. The Wham! documentary is out on Netflix now. The Wham! limited edition box set Echoes of Heaven is out now. It is so good. Again, so considered and nostalgic and brilliant. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week. You're not going to want to miss next week's episode.

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