Beth Ditto

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1:06Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and we are back in New Crossgate. Do you know what? Very relaxed. When I put ways in, do you know what this address comes up as? Work. So I've got home and work. So here is work and the other one, I'll show you, and the other one is home. You haven't done any work yet, have you, Lynn? Here I am. I'm on cooking duty today and it's an absolute pleasure to be cooking. I'm actually trying I'm getting into Substack mum Oh I've yeah Have you joined? You have to subscribe I've joined and I've subscribed to a few people and one of the people that I've subscribed to is somebody that I've been following for years and I always do his egg recipes whenever we're doing a brekkie His name's Edward Smith Ed Smith Rocket and Squash on Instagram and he is also that on Substack Anyway I saw that he did something really delicious the other day Spatchcock chicken with like orzo and it just looked really delicious.

2:02So I thought I'd try. It's not very much the springtime lunch that I was hoping for because it is grey and cold outside. However, spatchcock, it's a really hard word to say, say it. Spatchcock. Oh, you're easy. It's very easy for you to say. Anyway, spatchcock chicken with orzo and it usually is done with pancetta. However, our guest doesn't eat pork. So the spatchcock chicken is done with butter under the skin, parmesan, lemon zest, and it sits on wedges of lemon. And it makes spatch... I'm going to stop saying. I'll just say SC chicken. It's much quicker to cook, and I really like it, and I feel like it's always more juicy.

2:46I spatchcocked it myself. You didn't? Actually, it's really easy. I mean, it's easy if you don't get the wrong side of the bird. Have you got poultry shears? I don't know. No, I used the ones that I do my presents with. Oh. And it worked. They must be very well fast. Maybe I'm doing my presents with poultry shears. Anyway, it worked. It's actually quite simple, as Ed suggested. Anyway, that served with... I think the guest is here. Served with orzo and spring veg. So I've just put in tender stem and peas, and I'm going to add some asparagus for extra crunch, an onion, and then we're doing it with this really nice tarragon yoghurt dressing that he suggests.

3:28Quite light fab. Then we've got Lapsang Souchon plums that I've done before because you know I'm not a pud gal. And we'll have that with some creme fraiche and some ginger snaps. I think Beth Ditto has just joined us because I can hear the southern hospitality at the front door. Barely talked about her. Beth Ditto is one of my idols. Idols. I love her. I've got the photo. She's fantastic. Gossip are back. They just headlined the Six Music Festival and she's been on everything. She's done Sunday brunch. She's coming here for some lunch. Can't wait to have an hour and a half with Beth Ditto from Gossip.

4:04They've got a new album out called Real Power. It's brilliant. She's the best. Here she is. Come in.

4:18Beth Ditto, you've come in. like a ball of beautiful like a parakeet like no no like a tree full of parakeets because for real it was one of the loudest things I've ever heard and amazing I'm thrilled to have you in South East London is that where we are? we are show the picture Jessie a reminder do I show you the picture now? we'll do whatever you want there's no rules okay so I have a feeling we're going to be just fine in the modern apartment okay so listen I'm going to be really shy you have been Jessie's biggest idol we My first Glastonbury I love Chelsea I'm so excited My first Glastonbury I can't believe she's going to tell you this story It was In front of you So my first Glastonbury I was A punter I was going to watch my friends I was watching you The Gossip Headline What's a punter?

5:02I was like I wasn't performing I was like With the people Were you sneaking in? Yeah I mean no I bought my ticket But No I love when people sneak in No but this is why I think you liked me So you The Gossip were headlining The John Peel tent Oh that's one of the most iconic moments It was Iconic babes I'm going to say that Because John Peele Is such an icon Show the photo Okay so You remember this gig The gossip headline You were in Latex I think Or maybe not Maybe actually I'll just let you know You were in that Oh I do Open it up Yeah I know Oh my god So we snuck backstage You'd come off stage It was pissing down We sung Umbrella together Because it was pissing down And you Oh my god I remember that like it was fucking yesterday because I'd never heard this song before.

5:51Do you remember me being like, what the hell are you singing? And you got into it, Beth. Yeah. Because it was hilarious. I thought, because I thought you had made up this song. I was like, this is a jam. No, I'm not kidding. Wait, you can spot it. Hey, listen, honey, I have an ear for it. So we snuck backstage. I'm so sorry. And no, it was brilliant. It was the best way to finish the rainiest Glastonbury, my first Glastonbury. We snuck backstage. The security are like, no. And you're going, anarchy, anarchy. And you're like, Amarilla, Ella, Ella. Yeah, and we're singing that and you're like there.

6:27And it was just magic. Bless their heart. So basically, I've loved you ever since. Well, we loved you anyway. We came to see you played in Concord. When I was at university, we went to see you at Concord too. Because you're younger than me. So you have all of these, it's just so crazy. So that is my story. I'm a fan. I've been a fan for a while and you're in my kitchen I'm cooking chicken thank you me too and I was like this morning I was listening to you and one of the like this new person that started working with this is she's 32 to me he's a baby now I look at when 32 year olds are like I'm having a baby I'm like don't you think you should think about your choices you got you know what I mean like as I look at them now I'm like listen honey listen as your elder you're just as you're too young wait till you're 49 can I ask how old you are 172 no I'm 43 You're not.

7:16I am. Look at that skin. It's not real. Actually, this is a mask. It's you. I pulled it off and I was a parakeet. I was like, gotcha.

7:28No, that moment, though, I had to tell you that when you said that, like, because you were talking about the first time we met. In my memory, the first time we had met was at Hootanai. Which is quite iconic as well. Oh, so fun. It was that. Two iconic places. That was so fun. Now, when you showed up, I was like, we are fun people. Like I was like We are the nice ones Or whatever Not really Because I'm a horrible person So you were really young When you were headlining John Peel's stage Yeah I mean I think so You must have been Because you must have been You can cheat on track mama No I'm not You must have been 18, 19 I was No I was 21 I was going to say Because that's probably Because you're what You're probably I'm 39 Yeah you're 39 Because the only reason I knew that Is because I googled it Because I always thought You were really really young too I thought you were So beyond the same Well I thought Firstly I thought you partied with Stevie Nicks in the 70s.

8:17I'm shocked. I'm shocked. No, for real. I thought you were super duper young. I have tried to tell people that story so many times and I did not realize that was you. And in my memory, I was like, the first time I'd ever heard that that song was you. And who was your friend you were with? Sarah. So Sarah, I remember the two of you. I can like when you show me that picture and then you told me that story I remember your haircut I remember like because everybody he looked like drowned rats to be honest but no that was the things that everybody did but y 'all did it because you had an umbrella because of the thing so that song was a really big deal you know it was huge it was everywhere but I remember that's okay it's such an important story and such a core memory for me because it was that day and I remember two girls walking up and being so hilarious and fun.

9:12But I remember y 'all singing that. Umbarella, Ella, Ella. And I was like, these girls are singing a hit. We were really... I did not know it was a Rihanna song. I thought you made it up. And I remember that. And I remember... That would have been really good. Did she have a hit before that? Rihanna? Yeah, I'd say. What was the one before that, though? Did she hear Mr. DJ? Was that before they made it? And yeah, she had a few. I did not even... I'd never even heard that song. And I can't tell you... It doesn't sound that crazy when I'm telling you, but I'm always like, I've tried to retell that story and be like, I thought two girls made it up in the rain.

9:49Like, I was like, and that you even remember that. I'm like, oh my God, that was you. Of course I remember it. It was massive. And it was amazing. And then I thought you wrote Umbrella. Well, thank you. I did. I wish. I wish you had. I wouldn't be a new cross game. You know, then you kept, both of y 'all kept trying to explain it to me too. Like, you know, like, you know, you remember. I was like, no. But you were, can I just say though, Beth, you were so kind. Tell me more about me. Okay, so... Well, so were you. We had a good time. That was a really... Yes, but like, we were little random kind of people that just jumped fast games.

10:18So was I. But you had just headlined the 10th. You'd killed it. And then you had time for us to basically launch ourselves on you. And that's why you are rock and roll and also the most fabulous person in music. Finally someone said it. I didn't want to be the one that said it. But coming from another fabulous person in music, I mean, that's kind of just what has to be the standard now. I'm going to ask you some food questions. You can. So big family, grew up in Arkansas. Who was around the dinner table and what was a very memorable dish from your childhood? It's funny I think about, because my mother and, you know, we were really working class, grew up Southern Baptist.

10:59like I always said that Arkansas diversity like religious diversity was that a Southern Baptist and like a church of Christ was in the same room like that was diversity like people like woo we are barriers are being crossed we are breaking bread with the Pentecostals like that you know it was like not really but it was like that there wasn't but it ruled everything around Arkansas that's another story it connects somehow but like um so i grew up in baptist i didn't go to church all the time well southern baptist did it had lots of music it did because church always does okay did you like the music did you sing in the choirs oh yeah okay but it's it's spreading the word as well baptist isn't it it will is it evangelical it can be yeah it can be it all can be can it but when i was like when i think about family and food you're growing up we had there were a lot of us my mother worked she was a nurse and she wasn't just a nurse but she was a nurse's aide so she got even less respect than she deserved even though she did all the grunt work you know and was really smart and really passionate about it did really well she worked with geriatrics so she just worked really hard and there were eras in my life when we would sit around the table and eat but I was very very young and my parents got divorced when I was five so there weren't like many like big family meals did you stay after that yeah i did all of you uh no it went back and forth okay um it's not like my childhood is not very linear there's not a lot it wasn't very it's not cohesive it was very like oh you're one of the youngest it was very chaotic i'm the middle child middle girl a middle child yes obvious but back to food and stuff we had food that we ate my mom i don't want to say she's a bad cook she would never listen to this bless her heart maybe she would she surprises me sometimes she's more of a look at pictures of birds on uh instagram lady hence why you knew the parakeet uh listen i know a parakeet from miles away thank you mom but like she's she's just like she's a different lady she's kind of disconnected so what was it what was the meal she wasn't a great cook i mean it was because we grew up poor So there was a lot of, like, the memories of my childhood have been like a family.

13:23It goes in phases because of divorce and stuff like that. So there's different ways. It's like, you know, when I was a dad, it would be like pizza. Remember when you were a kid, that was a big deal to go out to eat. That was the thing. You know, it's different now, I think. But, like, when we were with dad, he would, like, get pizza. And you'd be like, dad's getting pizza. What? Because you didn't get that all the time. I didn't have spaghetti until I was, like, six. I remember the day I had it the first time. But it was, like, beans and cornbread. Okay. Big pots of beans. What kind of beans? Things like that.

13:49Great northern beans, like white beans, pinto beans. Okay. Yeah, and it would just be salt. You put a ham hock in it or like a turkey neck or something. Cheap meat. And then you fed everybody and bring it a protein. You'd have like fried okra with it or you'd always have fried potatoes with it. You know, it's just like very simple meat and potatoes. Did you enjoy it? Yeah, I loved it. You know, I still love it. That's what has ruined me. I think I'm so meat and potatoes that, you know, people, I went out to this dinner in LA recently and it was like a business thing and I was just joking, but half joking.

14:21But I just was like, because I didn't, I was talking to the person who was planning, he's like, I'm going to see you on such and such. I'm going to book the restaurant. And I was like, God help you if you try to get me to split up in a bone and eat the marrow. And I was like, God help you. But I was joking. But you know. Where did you go? We went to Evie or something like that. It was a nice restaurant and the food was really nice. but I just I was just like my point was don't take me somewhere nice it's going to be lost on me and I'm going to like not feel bad about myself I'm just I'm just going to be like I don't want you to think I'm not grateful because I'm like a lamb thank you I don't know what to do with this you don't eat lamb do you?

14:53no you don't we did not eat that do we eat steak? I don't now you just eat poultry don't you? that's a thing I have heard you talk about roadkill and eating roadkill this blew people's minds in this country so I don't remember how old I was 20 something and they were asked the question was it was from magazine tell me about the first time you got stoned and I said okay I remember like it was yesterday I was 13 to 14 and me and my cousin who I lived with at the time um played hooky we stayed home from school and we were home by ourselves and he had pot and he's like do you want to get stoned I was like yes and he got he was a major stoned about that point he's kind of a mess up he's a horrible kid person now but anyway that's whatever so we're getting stoned and i'm sitting there it's not really working but he's obviously ripped out of his gourd and we have these windows that you could slide open they didn't go up and down they slid the other way and he gets out his bb gun and he starts shooting into the trees he's shooting squirrels i know what's happening you know whatever so i'm just telling the story i'm like so this is the first time i got stoned and i was like and then you know we he got the munchies because the stone you know oh my god gives you the munchies so he went around and he cleaned them and we ate them.

16:07We fried them and ate them. Okay, so the thing is. What do they taste like? Chicken. It always does. But the thing was, I was like telling the story. I was just telling the story about getting stoned. And the journalist was like, what? Like I was like, yeah, it didn't really work. I was like, that's stoned. And then he was like, but. you ate the squirrel. I did not know it was weird until then. And then people were obsessed with it. Did you skin it? Who's skinning the squirrel? I'm not skinning it. Yeah, he did. But we ate squirrel a lot. What did you have it with? You would fry it. You would fry it like chicken.

16:51You would eat it like you know, you put it in dumplings. If you look at Loretta Lynn, she has a cookbook. And if you go in her cookbook, there's squirrel all in it. What was her famous song, Loretta? I'm proud to be a coal miner's daughter. I'm going to start serving, just sorting this out. Mum is going to ask you about your last supper, OK? Well, I wasn't there, but I hear that it was pretty sad. I mean, I thought it was happy for him, but, you know, later days. Would you have squirrel on your last supper? For old times' sake. You know what's funny is one of my friends is from Britain and came home with us to Arkansas.

17:29and my brother's 52 and he lives where my parents my mom and dad grew up back then it was the small time it was like 200 or something people now it's only 80 people but he still lives down there yeah you know people i mean you think it's like the old days but people still that's the way people live you know everything my granny ate she canned everything she wore she sewed she's a one of those pentecostal women that had long hair and only wear dresses she was fantastic spoken tongues in church. That's my dad's mom. That's my greenie ditto. Oh my gosh. But it's still real down there. So ditto is your real name?

18:04Yeah. See, that's what people understand. Granny ditto. Granny ditto. My dad's name is Homer. Well, he died, my dad. Homer ditto. Homer ditto, yeah. But what's your heritage name? That's a great name. I know. There's a whole thing. There's a fluke about it. And I always had to get... It's a whole other conversation. I'll tell you about it when we're on the... I'll tell you about it when I come over to watch Coma and his daughter. What's your heritage? so everyone from America has heritage they do but I don't know mine I think when you're like I think one thing when you grow up poor you're just like hell I don't know we're all cousins really someone said to me the other day where were they from something about an arranged marriage their parents or grandparents had been in an arranged marriage and they were cousins and I was like oh my god they were in an arranged marriage but they were cousins my grandparents too I was like oh my god everybody's the same I don't know my heritage.

18:53It's a very straight family tree. It goes straight down. It doesn't fork. But I don't know a lot about it. I know that my... Just look at the name Ditto. Ditto is supposedly French. French. Here's a crazy story about that. We grew up... My dad would say... Well, my great-granddad was Benny. And that's my brother's name now. My oldest brother. Benny. And we were told that we were Italian. D-I-T-O sounds more Italian than French. Right, it does. And it's D-I-T-T-O. So my dad and my nephews, some of my nephews, because I have a lot, but my dad had huge black curly hair. Like in the 70s it looked amazing because he loved the leisure seat.

19:37And he had huge like big curly like puffy hair. And then, yeah, so we were like, and he was very olivey. So we were like, oh, yeah, of course we're Italian. But it turns out we weren't at all. Did he marry again? My dad. Yeah. Yeah, he married somebody named Ellen. Ellen. And what I love about that, do you like Tori Amos, Jessie? Yes. Okay, here we go. So my mother's name is Myra. Myra. She's Val Myra, but she was by Myra. And my stepmother's name is Ellen, and her birthday is September 5th. And Tori Amos' name is Myra Ellen Amos, actually, and her birthday is September 5th. And I was such a huge fan that I thought that meant so much to me.

20:19I was like, I knew we were connected. How funny. Beth, if you're celebrating, what would your meal be? Oh, that's a good question. That's a really good question, social worker, Lenny. Like, you're like, she's not reacting to this dead thing. Let's rephrase. Yeah, I'm not. I don't like the dead thing. I don't mind. But it's not about the dead. It's if you were going to go on a desert island for six months. What would be your last meal before you went away? So it can be a celebration meal. Meatloaf. Yeah. But not with turkey now. With mashed potatoes. But would you make it with turkey? Yeah. And maybe I'd even eat the beef if I was like, it's my last meal.

20:57Might as well be theirs too. Okay. You know? And would you have, would you have, do you like gravy? I'm not a gravy on my meatloaf kind of person. Okay. Y 'all don't have meatloaf over here. I can make it. It's good. Yeah, it's lovely. It's tasty. Like, especially, oh man. And I think like the East Coast way, like if you go to a deli or something and you get like a hot meatloaf sandwich. It's made with breadcrumbs, kind of like a big meatball. But in the South, again, it's kind of a money thing. It's like, and I think different parts, and maybe not just the South, but like we don't have breadcrumbs unless we're going to make them.

21:31We'll get real. You know, it's not like, you know. We use saltines. Saltines. Yeah, and some people use oatmeal. But that's quite good saltines. Oh yeah, it's the best. I'd love to make you. Yeah, salt and everything. You put ketchup on the top. Oh gosh. And then that turns into this funny little skin. yeah like a nice little like you know how you make homemade american pudding yeah american pudding yeah yeah yeah and like if you do it just right if you get homemade from scratch there's that skin on the top it's kind of like that and you like to burst that through when you put your knife in the best end is the burnt end on the end you don't talk about that now that think about that that is probably any vegetables yeah of course i what that's another thing about growing up poor i was i was thinking like kids now like i when i'm not just poor but country like you you know everybody had a garden you know it was everyone had space for that everybody had yeah and if we didn't because mom and dad worked so much yeah that's which is the back to that thing where we didn't have a lot of meals together because yeah everybody worked yeah and my mom was a nurse and sometimes she had to work at night so who who did the cooking at home if your mom my dad could cook but mom mom did and it was very southern fair like you had fried chicken and yeah Or a squirrel.

22:41You'd have fried catfish. You caught it. Catfish. Yeah. Okay. That's what my dad's side of the family, that's what they did. What does catfish taste like? They lived on the riverboat. Dirt. Dirt. Yeah. Do you want to hear a story? I have so many stories. I don't want to give up too much time. You tell the story. I want to check with the chickens cooked. Mum, will you come over here and check? Because I'm scared. I don't want to give anybody. Why don't you just put your fork in? Do your picture in there. And if it's pink. This is fun. I'm coming in. Okay, good. Fine. Come in. I spatch-cocked this.

23:10Oh, I've never spatch-cocked. Hey, babe, it's very good. That's what she said. That was a good lesbian joke. Solid. Solid lesbian joke. Um, yeah. I would probably have cooked it. Okay, well, let's put it back in. I don't want to kill Bethany. I just put you in for another time. There's nothing that you could figure it would kill me. No. Because you know what my dad used to say about old milk and stuff? What? This is one of my favorite Homer Ditto phrases. He'd be like, Dad, this milk was expired two days ago. It don't know what day it is. And he was right. It's a good answer. Yeah. Come over here.

23:45Well, now I need to clean up after you. No, no, no. Come and sit. Just come and sit. You are the guest. Sit down. I'll be wrong. I'll be wrong. Hey, roll with me.

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24:44Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction. But there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. nicotine is an addictive chemical

25:10how long are you here for? a hundred years in life is this thing about my last meal? no and y 'all are wondering because you want to make it for me? because you want to make it for me? because I'm in a diet thing? I want to know what you drink what would you drink at your last meal? tea I would have no alcohol my tea do you have a drink I remember that dry county oh my god Yeah So no one knew you were smoking dope Shit dope What's a dry county? You're not allowed to drink You can't buy alcohol You can't serve alcohol How many counties? There's a lot of Do you drink, Beth? Oh, I love drinking Would you like a little glass?

25:51Do you want this even more off the rails? How off the rails do you want that? I'm just kidding I'll have a I love bubbles Okay, I've got a little bubbles in the fridge, so we may as well. I don't get them. What are you talking about? I'm a star. I've heard they made tea. I didn't know they made tea. What do they say in the stars when you're drinking? Just cheers. There's hands. Well, they don't say anything because it's dry. Well, they're like, you're going to hell, you big dumbass. Oh, my God. You missed hearing that Beth's paternal grandmother used to speak in tongues at church. She was a Pentecostal.

26:28Did you ever get close to that? I mean well no hell no you know when you watch people like that here's the thing is I'm not religious I don't believe in God and I don't want to take it away from people that do and my mother do you see the chicken don't you I do believe in that chicken I think it's going to be dry as fuck if it ever gets done no be fine I do believe in like what people believe is real like I am not you know what I mean like I don't because I don't know and I'm comfortable with that and part of that I think comes from being in such an oppressive background of like not even being able to question why like be like what is why does it say this like not even questioning that there is something right or wrong but you didn't even have there was no room for a conversation about any of it okay not with my mother my mother's amazing i love she religious she loves jesus she loves you know so she'll go to church still no she did not go to church because i don't think she felt welcome there.

27:29She sent us to church because that was the right thing to do. She had so many damn kids and on a Sunday she's like get the hell out of the house. I know there's a van that'll come pick you up. I know you'll be safe. You'll learn about God. That's where you're going. Was she okay about you coming out? Yeah, my mom was really great. The beauty of having a mom like mine, it's hard to explain Arkansas and the way I grew up because she didn't guide me at all. Sometimes I needed it and she didn't. She didn't have enough to go around. You know, like, she was raising babies. There were babies to be taken care of, you know.

28:02And so, like, I didn't hold that against her. But, like, it was difficult. But I think that there's this thing, this energy. It's the God thing, you know, for her or whatever. I think there was this energy that she, like, put out somehow that made she put out. But to make her, I don't know what it is, but I do believe in that somehow. It's hard to make it make sense with how I feel. but like with my own feelings to like higher powers and stuff. But I think that because she did love Jesus and she really instilled us with a sense of like empathy was very important to her. And she had a very rough childhood.

28:40And I think a lot of women like of y 'all's age did. How old's your mom now? Mom, she's 67. She's a baby. She's a baby. I mean, but you know, same thing. Y 'all would have the same memory and stuff. Yeah. But she also working really hard. That was her thing. Not really, really hard. Does she still work? No, because I take care of her. Good. Yeah. That was the only goal. My only goal is that I'm not rich. Like, I am compared to other people. Like, I don't want to say, I'm poor. Like, because I have been poor and I know I'm not. And I always say I'm very comfortably upper middle class. And compared to a place that I grew up that feels rich.

29:16You don't still live in. But that's my goal is to be able to take care of her. I mean, I say that like she's in a home. You don't live near her? I don't. I live like 2 ,000-something miles away from her. You live in L.A. now? No, I live in Portland, Oregon. Oh, you live in Portland now? I couldn't live in L.A. Okay. You could pay me enough to live in L.A., but not forever. But you can pay me enough to work there, but I couldn't live there. So where do you do all your recording and everything? It depends on who's making the record. We're not like... So your latest record? Yeah, we did in Hawaii.

29:44Hawaii? We did it on Hawaii in Hawaii. Why did you choose Hawaii to record? I did it. we worked with on this record and he's one of my favorite people to work with is Rick Rubin. Jesse, you know Rick Rubin. Oh wow! Yeah. So when you know you go where he goes. You're not going to be like Rick, listen baby, I got a really comfortable three bedroom apartment in Portland. Come over. Put your feet up. It's not going to work like that. So has he got a studio there? Kinda. Yeah. That's what was so cool about this record. The making of that record was that it was so because like when I say we made a record in Hawaii to people with Rick Rubin like you know what they picture Jessie like you know the Shangri-La in Malibu that famous studio that he owns it's like legendary yeah yeah I've heard of it like Bob Dylan so he owns that yeah whoa that's beautiful thank you babes that is really beautiful thanks I do you like to cook or do you just do it yeah I love cooking wow that's cool right sorry Sorry, that has been right faffy.

30:50Sorry. You say, you think the spatchcock's going to be a bit easier. No, that's the opposite of what I think. I've never spatchcocked. So what we've got, we've got spatchcocked chicken with a bit of parmesan and lemon and butter underneath the skin. Underneath the skin with orzo and spring veg and then a tarragon yogurt dressing on the salad. And then we've got a little pud after, which is quite light. Pud. Stodgy puds. Help yourself. Go. You go. You go, Mama. You go. So did you eat well with Rick Rubin in Hawaii? Was it an important part of the agenda or were you just like, let's just rock out?

31:24Me? Okay. Rick is, it's not. Oh, it's so hard to explain. Oh, it's just. No. No. We went out. Did we go out to eat? When we were in Malibu. Yeah. When we worked on Music for Me in 2008 or something. No, I'm all right. You're all right. You can dish me. I can bring it over to you since you're there. What would you like? Do you want leg, breath, spine? I would like a dark meat on the bone, please. If it's easy to eat. Just take the whole leg. Take the leg. Take the box, but take that leg. And now here, I'll move this for you. So this is, it's just a salad, which has got yogurt and tarragon dressing.

32:01This is my favorite kind of salad. Really? Okay, good. I like it if it's really chill or if it's over the top. I'm using my personal fork, but I did not. That's fine. You're our friend. Thank you. Thank you. Did you hear that? I heard. So you were saying, the thing about Rick, You worked with them in 2008. So when we were in Malibu and you're in the city and there's places to eat and stuff like that, we would go out to eat, you know. But I think it's so funny to try to explain Kauai to people. Thank you, babe. Because it is very beautiful. I'm sorry. It's very beautiful and luxurious, right? I do not want to sound like I'm not grateful.

32:37It's so hard to explain. But it's just trying to paint the picture. So I think people are saying, you know, Rick Rubin, Rick Rubin, of all the people that you know are like, he must have, it's got to be, of course he has access to anything he wants, you know, equipment, sound, whatever. But we were on an island and not even an island with, say, a lot of things at hand. Like, you know, if we wanted a certain amp, we'd have to wait, like, rushed. You know, hopefully you would get in four days, you know, like that. so we were working like that together and it wasn't because it was unorganized at all it was because you know that's where he was kind of like that's just where he was at at the time i don't want to like air all this business but i'm sure you could read about it but you know like he'd lost his home and the fire of course the malibu fires yeah i didn't realize yeah and i think like i think after that maybe i could be wrong sorry rick call me if i'm you're mad he won't be mad he doesn't but um he might be but it'll be fine we'll talk it out um or you know or he'll just send me a brainwave but it was a very the studio was very beautiful it was very country it's very rural but with rick it was very like i say piecemeal is the best word i can use like he was on the you know we were on the beach and you could see and like rick is very zen and that way everything's white he always gets a custom couch built and have you ever heard that about him that he lays down people say he lays down but he doesn't he doesn't lay down with us he has but he said he's less a player downer now and he is on a big fitness thing we talked about that a lot too because like we talked about how he was fat his whole life and i've always been fat too like fat mom always was like did you feed you three jars of baby food before you'd stop crying like i was always a real healthy eater had a real good appetite just always was big and like so we talked a lot about like relating about that and like how food was something that you could always rely on or whatever.

34:35In my house, it always wasn't because there was all of it. I mean, we weren't starving, but we took whatever. So it was different, different relationships. But it was really piecemeal. It wasn't glamorous. Where would you take us out in Portland if we were coming to meet you? Where would you be like, first point of call I'm taking you to this spot for food? It's so different now, you know. Because, well, I was never a foodie. Right. That's the problem. That's all right, but where's your favorite place that you go? But it is a foodie town. Mm-hmm. Big time. I think the best thing about Portland, and what really, I think, kicked off the foodie thing, was one of the best places to get vegan food.

35:14Like, it was, and I think that really started, like, people opening different kinds of restaurants and, like, looking for different things. But, um, in my opinion, because I moved there a long time ago when it wasn't, I moved there 20, basically 20 to 20 years ago. Yeah. so where I would take you would probably just be somewhere I eat all the time you know where I would take you? where? I would take you to El Burrito Azteca which is just a burrito place that we go to what's your order there? I always get a chicken burrito can't go wrong with a burrito no it's comforting oh this is another thing that's ADD brain how many Americans have you had on this podcast?

35:51quite a few quite a few have you ever noticed and maybe probably from being in America we do not know how to use a knife and fork it's not the knife and fork that we struggle with, it's clearing the plates before everybody's finished at the table. What do you mean? So we're told... In America that they did that. We're told by Kiefer Sutherland. Kiefer Sutherland told you this? He said... This is the funniest thing already I've ever heard. It would be considered impolite to... Like, if my plate is finished and we're in a restaurant, they clear the plate even though you haven't finished. Isn't he Canadian?

36:23He is Canadian, I think. Yeah, he is, but he said... I'm joking, it doesn't matter either way. He is American. Oh, really? He wants to speak for Americans, huh? what if I got mad about that

36:34I've never heard that before so why do you think two very different class systems we grew up in you know what I mean where I'm from if you went to a restaurant they know you were done by the stacks of empty plates at the buffet that you went to because the kids ate free on Tuesday do you like a buffet? yes me too I love it a little bit of everything And then eating and just get a little bit of everything And then you go back And you go back Sorry I spit, I was so excited So is there a good buffet place in Portland? No, there's not Oh there used to be, there used to be an Ethiopian buffet in Portland That was awesome That's my favourite food, Ethiopian food You're kidding, that big sour pancake I love that You know what's funny is I don't like sourdough But there's something about that bread Because it's like angira Oh my god there's something about it in the way that there's something very southern about it there's got to be some link because it's like greens, collard greens potatoes and cabbage do you like curry then?

37:38I don't know it very well but that's what you have on Ethiopian spicy I like Ethiopian curry but like I only know the American version I've never been to Ethiopia it's my favourite thing I won't eat it until I'm sick oh right and I love it it's just like I like that all the food touches I do you do you do you not partake in a curry when you get here and it's like lentils and stuff so it's like beans and cornbread it's like what I was eating earlier it has this weird thing it's familiar um yeah yeah I do what do I eat when we come in oh I tell you what I always want to get number one I get flapjacks from Marks and Spencers that bucket that bucket of those how did it feel I mean you did the six music festival.

38:24He headlined it. Was that the first time you performed these songs live? Yeah. How did that feel? It was fine. You know, I think it looked great. It sounded great. I don't know. I never know. I don't pay attention. I don't like to pay attention. How did it feel to be on stage again together? The hardest part was with me and with Alison Moye. Hard? It was the hardest part. Because you adore her? Because I adore her so much. It sounded great. It was so hard. She looked fabulous. She looked fabulous. She was fabulous. She sounded great. She had, like, I loved her. It was so cool to me because I don't know her at all.

38:59It's the first time I met her. Right. And I did not think in a million years she was going to say yes to it. And I was often like, I wonder if they paid her a lot of money or something. But not in a mean way, but I was just like, wow, like, we were so lucky. She meant so much to me for so many reasons. So that was really hard for me. And I never had that, like, I didn't have a bad time, but I was so emotional. I was really upset. I was really teary. It was really hard. I couldn't remember the lines. I'm not intimidated by many people. And you are such a performer as well. That's the thing. I'm so wackadoo.

39:37Really, I wish I could have just sat down and let her do it. It's like there's some people in life like... I think there's another way of just why it's fun to be a part of this world is that you get to see so many... It ruins the magic sometimes, but it also is, like, the part of the magic is that you get to see people. Yeah. And it's so surreal. But, like, it's one thing, like, to meet people and, like, be around them. And then you see them and you go. But it's another thing to, like, sing their own words to them while they're singing them to you. That was really hard. But I loved it. And, like, I appreciated it, but I couldn't sing through my tears.

40:14Oh, that's bad. Yeah. Like, and I was trying not to, like, I'm not good. like I love you know what I mean I like to play shows I hate rehearsals you're playing different because you're a Libra you like rehearsal I do like to be rehearsed I hate it Jessie who would make you cry yeah probably Sade what well yeah fuck yeah I would have just jumped into the ocean I would have literally been like well I'm out have a good time or Barbara Sade or Barbara wait Barbara Barbara yeah well the one and only Barbara are you listening to her fucking autobiography I'm about I'm about 500 hours in and I still haven't finished the first chapter I'm savoring I chose just a little bit I'm I can't she's listen to it I'm just like I don't want to go away I don't want it to leave don't worry it lasts forever and it's very long it's true it's true how far are you in?

41:06not very okay I was she's so are you listening to it? listen to it she's brilliant there is no way I would read that when I heard that she and then she goes on tangents I know and I love it and she's like yeah that was a funny story I wore a red scarf I need to ask you some food questions did we get the last supper ish dessert do you have coconut cream coconut cream cake but very American you've got a good recipe for that I do the thing about the thing about the recipe I always joke about I like to call it the funeral cake because in the south someone has to die for you to get that cake. You know how like everybody brings you food when they die and like you know how like when you're dead and people bring you food so that sounds like but like when someone dies you go over to their house and then you eat all the food and then the poor old grandma ends up having to clean up the mess so it's so painful to watch but there's always the coconut cake and you're like is this what it takes?

42:15even as a little fat kid being like someone has to die y 'all see what's happening this cake is so good they're never even gonna have it and you get it extra sometimes because people like to make it look like a bird I got my recipe you know those cook bits here to people like at work like my mom worked as a nurse at the hospital or the nursing home Yeah. They would put their recipes together. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they would sell them for charity, you know. And they came in that little plastic binder. Yeah, I've got one of those. I've got a few of those ones. And she, it came from that. But then, excuse me.

42:56Oh, Beth, will you copy it for me? The New York Times had one. Oh, they've got one. Coconut. I'm going to look. But the only thing that I changed was instead of, it was that they used milk. Yeah. And the southern one uses milk and the northern one, the New York Times one used coconut milk. So it's coconut cream cake. Or you could just coconut cake. Beth, can you cook? I used to. And then I just got, you know, I love hosting. I really love hosting. And like, I think my partner and I are really good at hosting. We really, really got into it. Then COVID came. But I think I had, you know, I was married and got a divorce.

43:39And I think something happened in that time, like post-divorce, that I was just like cooking. I just stopped cooking as much. I don't know what it is. But also, she was vegetarian, so I was caught, you know, I learned to cook a lot of vegetarian food and stuff. So, not anymore, not as much as I did. Would you have a little pud, or are you finished with that? Yeah, I put it. Have you finished your main? Yeah, that's okay. I don't mean to be ugly. I can take it with me. Can I take it with me? Baby, you do not have to take it with me. I don't have to do anything I don't want to do. You should have some curd.

44:11Is this a plum? Yes. That's my favourite stone fruit curd. Oh, good. So it's got a bit of Lapsang Souchon tea bags in it too, so you may get a little taste of tea. And then it's with creme fraiche and some ginger nut crunched on the top. Lovely. I love it, mate. Oh, my gosh. You've got a proper accent. I'm really convincing. No, I'm not. Lovely. Lovely. I love it, mate. Beth Ditto. Can you play anything? Not well enough. Do you? Can you? Does it not frustrate you, though? Yeah. Should we get lessons? No. Oh. No, because I don't have time for that. Because you're a punk. No, because I have ADD.

44:47I'm never going to learn that. I can't talk. Do you have to take anything for it? Yeah. Okay. How long did I not get here today if I didn't have it? Really? Yeah, I got medicated like two years ago. When did you get dog-nosed? Maybe three years ago. During quarantine. I always knew I had it. I was always teased about having it. and people would be like oh you're so ADD especially my ex-wife would be like oh my god because she was Virgo she's so grounded so is it Adderall originally? I took Adderall and it's hard because it's a shortage not hard because like when you can get it it's on and people really abuse it it's also a drug that you have to I mean it's quite literally amphetamine and it does keep speedy and it does whatever but I had never like even you know how we're having this conversation and we were talking about all these different things.

45:38Yes. And it's not a, it's like, it's going everywhere. For the first time in my mind, like I can, I can always remember things, but I can, in my mind, I'm more aware of like, oh, Beth, you didn't finish that story about Aunt Nancy, or you didn't finish the story about this. And not that it matters, but before I wouldn't even have noticed. I'd just been like, Aunt Nancy, bubble pops, balloons, woo! Like, I wouldn't even have thought about it. And I think people thought that was like, what's why? I've always been taught like especially in music and stuff like that and being around like label people or being around other musicians and like especially like macho dude musicians who are like and you're like cool guitar who cares like I could literally hear less but like you know someone talks to make great music when good music happens to bad people and when bad music happens to good people I have a job but it's made me more like even though I can go from tangent to tangent and there's this story that's a circle in my head and now I can see that I didn't finish it or I did or like I can make a list and do it and I used to not be able to do that but is that frustrating for you to see going off in tangents or you're fine you're okay with that because then you can go right I can pull it back to I don't mind tangents it's what was ignorance was bliss was ignorance bliss I always knew I did it okay you know I knew that I did it and I think that's the thing it's just like it's not even that what is bad or good but now I'm seeing that I did that and that but now I'm saying like oh if I did want to finish it or whatever it's it's like you're making connections and you're keeping track of things that you never did before like one of those things is like I can pack my own suitcase I could not do that before and not that I couldn't like yeah I know how to bring your toothbrush Beth you big dummy and I'm good because when you have ADD and like you're diagnosed with it especially or like you have important things that you have to keep up with like your passport whatever your passport's the most important thing everything else is replaceable even your your phone your credit cards whatever but your passport is what you don't like so I'm always just like passport passport like you're almost to the point that sometimes you can't relax or sleep or if I have an appointment this is before I took venison if I had an appointment at 8 p.m.

47:48or something or if I had an appointment at 9 a.m. in the state I would step all night scared to death I was going to miss it so I would just sit there and then what happens is I end up being late anyway because my body doesn't, like, weirdly or for whatever reason process time the same. Like, I'll be like, 15 minutes, that's tons of time. Like, and I really believe that. Like, I'll be like, I can do a full face in 30 minutes. No, you can't. So now it's helped me do that. It does make, you know, it is a drug and it is – well, I don't feel like it's a drug. I feel like it's medicine. I do feel like it's abuse and there's a stigma.

48:23I also think like it's hard to get right now there's a shortage of it so that feels really scary but it has changed my life I didn't know that there was a chemical reason and now I do and it kind of it is heartbreaking sometimes but it's fine and it does like change the way you think about everything you know you'll be like do people see me like that and usually I don't care Beth it's been such an honor long day no it's been an honor and a total treat to be able to sit with you for a couple of hours. The food was so delicious. Thank you. It really was. I'm not paying you a loop service. Thank you.

49:01Because I would just be like, thank you for dinner. Thank you. You know what I mean? Yeah, but I just want to say, I think you're so special. Thank you. I think you're so special. And you're, I think, so adored by so many people. And you're a star. Thank you. That's so kind. And I love your stories. Thank you. And I love your tangents. I love it all. I love Beth Ditto. Thank you. So thank you so much. Well, thanks for having me. I am so happy to be here And your podcast is amazing And the way that people People are really talking Like people talk You're so generous But sometimes Mostly with money Because I'm really rich So like I'm not I do fine I'm coming to your house But I love to tell people I'm so rich I am Thank you for having me I wish I could have answered a question Thank you You answered so many questions You are amazing Can I just check when your album's coming I don't know It's out on the 22nd March Thank you for saying that because I would never have remembered.

49:52I'll be like, we're talking because we're friends. I'm sorry. Well, I hope you're going to be at Glastonbury together. Glasto. Do-overs. Let's sneak in. Oh, my God, I have an idea. What? You're going to come back. To the picture. You and me, do you all sneak into other people's shows? Oh, my God. Like the biggest ones, too. Like fans. Okay, perfect. But I think we should try and wear the same thing and have the stripes. Oh, my God. But that outfit I was wearing. My friend Giles Pearson made that. and he made all that stuff back but I haven't seen him in years and now that people are those pictures and stuff are coming back up I'm like people are so nice to me and they say such nice things about the way I dress or whatever and like but I just feel like I'm like I never say his name and that's not fair he was the person who was there when nobody would make anything for me well I I love you on stage I love what you I love how you look I love how you are the most incredible performer.

50:48You're also just gorgeous and lovely. Thank you. So let's have, I'm going to find you at some of these festivals. Yeah. I'm going to find you. No, we'll find each other because I have plans for us and it's hilarious. Okay, great. Hijinks. Hijinks. Let's get in trouble. Let's get arrested. Let's get arrested. Anarchy. Anarchy.

51:23I love Beth Ditter. She's a force of nature, darling. She's wonderful. She's fab. She's so funny, witty, warm. Has, like, a story for everything. Loved it. Still never got the end of the catfish story. Oh, yeah, Nancy on the houseboat. Also, shout out to Ed Smith because that was a really good recipe. It's very, very similar to the Nigella chicken in orzo with lemon. And you just bake it in the oven. Well, I'm going to do it for my friends. I love the tarragon yogurt dressing too. That was yummy. Wonderful Jo has come to help with the clean up. She's back. She's back. God bless Jo. She's better.

52:01We do cook, but we're not as good at cleaning up. So yeah, appreciate it. And my son has just entered the conversation. Do you want to say hi? Hi. Look what he bought you. He bought me a little leaf, didn't you? Tell mum what it is. Bay leaf. Bay leaf. Ooh, we'll have you as a guest on the podcast soon. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next week.

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