Bonus Episode: Lionesses - Ellen White and Lyn Hale

0:03Hello and welcome back to a Good Causes special of Table Manners made possible by the National Lottery. You may remember that last year we had the wonderful Jack Munro and Noreen Gleaves on to talk about the National Lottery-supported Jubilee Big Lunch. Well, we've partnered with the National Lottery again this year on the eve of the Women's World Cup. Woo! This is the first time we've ever had a footballer on, Mum. Or footballers. Not only got one, we've got two. And we have a Euro 2022 winner. Well, they're both legends, aren't they? Well, yeah, now they are. Absolutely. Today we've got two, well, I call them goddesses, but they're lionesses, Jess.

0:47Ellen White, the star striker from the England 2022 Euros, and an OG lioness. Does that mean old girl? What does OG stand for? Original gangster. Not an old girl, Mum. I don't think she'd like that. Well, what's an OG? Well, she is an old girl. Original gangster. I've never ever heard that. You're an OG mum. We've got an OG lioness, Lynn Hale, who debuted for England in 1972. Lynn was a trailblazer in the women's game. And you might have seen her parading around a packed Wembley last year as she was honoured as one of the FA's official legacy players. Which came as no surprise as Lynn is a true footballing legend.

1:32I think I listened to her on the radio when the Euros were happening last year. and it was fascinating to hear about the sexism she encountered. She's not only won the FA Cup a stunning seven times, but she's also one of the first women to represent England women at an international level. Over to Ellen White, MBE, she's won league titles, FA Cups and WSL Cups with the likes of Arsenal and City, Man City. The less we talk about those teams, the better. She won the England International Player of the Year in 2011, 2018 and 2021. you on jesse when she first started playing she was such a talent the boys wouldn't let her play with them oh yeah what was that when she was nine years old yeah intimidated too good oh i love it i love it boys can't take it can they jess now as we mentioned this episode is made possible by the national lottery who have contributed to the dreams of athletes like ellen and we just want to thank the national lottery players over 50 million pounds has been raised for women's football over the past 10 years alone which has gone towards a variety of initiatives not only to inspire women to play the game at grassroots clubs across the country but also to support up and coming athletes at an elite level mum if you'd have that national lottery player funding do you think you could have been a great centre mid no darling but I did play cricket I didn't play football pardon I was a very very very good long fielder I'm I don't even know what a long fielder is is that because you just had to sit, stand at the back and wait for the ball to come to you?

3:03Yeah, but I've got a very long throw. Sorry, pardonnez-moi. If you watch, my throw is fabulous. I played in the girls' cricket team at school. Thank you to the National Lottery players for letting me discover that my mum is an OG cricketer. Who knows where I've been now, darling? Well, it's not just football. National Lottery players support a huge variety in sport with more than 5.7 billion of National Lottery funding invested into grassroots sports in the past 25 years. I used to be in the girls' football team at primary school. I was completely mad about Manchester United. And I remember missing a penalty in the summer kind of schools game.

3:43And I think I lost the game for them. It was a very Gareth Southgate moment for me. And then I think I put down the ball and just watched it on the telly. But we're so interested to speak to Ellen White and Lynn Hale about their experiences, grassroots playing, how it must have differed from the 70s being on the pitch to now winning the Euros and being, you know, I mean, it was so electric last year, wasn't it? Fabulous. Thank God for the Lionesses. We're winners. The only people that can bring it home, apparently. So there you go. Listeners, you know how much mum and I love football. This is really special for us to have our first footballers on.

4:20So please indulge us a little bit. Food will be on the menu, but football will be the special of the day. So thank you very much. to the National Lottery for setting us up on our second dinner date. Ellen White and Lynne Hale, Zooming in for a Table Manners special. Can't wait.

4:44Ellen White and Lynne Hale, we have got you on Zoom to talk all about football and food. Thank you so much for joining us for this special National Lottery episode. It's such a pleasure to meet you. You're very welcome. No, thank you. You are our first footballers. Yeah. We've been desperate for footballers on the podcast and we never get any and you're our first. So we're thrilled. But of course it was going to be women who were going to be accommodating, of course. Of course. How are you feeling? We're talking about this on the eve of the World Cup starting. Where will you be watching the first match?

5:16Me personally, we're meeting up with some of the girls from the 72 squad. We're all meeting up in London to watch it in Box Park at Wembley. Oh, nice. We arranged to meet up for the first one. So is it a big blowout meal and a few drinks? We're staying in Hilton. Wow, yeah. We're going out Friday night. Saturday, we're going to Box Park. And Saturday afternoon, I don't know what we're going to do. And Saturday evening, no doubt there'll be some drinks around. What's your drink of choice, Lynne? Unfortunately, tea total. Before I was 18, I drank too much. I haven't drunk since. Really? Absolutely, yeah.

5:57And when did you go pro? How old were you when you went pro? I was never professional. Oh, OK, let's talk about that. I mean, you got applauded and paraded around Wembley last year when the Lionesses won. But let's talk about when you played football in the 1972 squad. So you weren't even regarded as professional. So can you set the scene about how different it was from now? When I first started playing football, I was 12. I actually got picked to play for England when I was 18. It was just really basic. There was absolutely nothing. We went training on a Thursday and we played football on a Sunday.

6:33Apart from that, that was it. Then when we got trials for England, we went through two or three trials. Then we got picked for England. We played our match in Scotland. We came home. We went back to our normal works, college or whatever. Went back to training on a Thursday. We had no pre-match meals. Absolutely nothing compared to what the people have today. Absolutely nothing. Did you get paid, Lynne? I've never, ever got paid for playing football, ever. Wow. And do you think if you'd had better funding at the time, it would have been different? You'd have been able to train more, concentrate on your football, things like that?

7:16Well, it hadn't been legal for very long, had it, for women to play football, right? No, it had been banned for 49, 50 years. But to be quite honest, that never really affected me much because we never played on decent pitches. We always had the rec here and the common places like that to play. We never, ever, ever had any funding. We got sponsorship from maybe the local shop, but never any money for anything. And can I ask, Lynne, and obviously, Ellen, we're going to talk about your experience, which feels very different to this. But Lynne, how many people were coming to watch? Were you called the Lionesses at the time?

7:51No, no, no. No, we were just England women. And how many people would come to an England football match back in 72? In 72, when we played our first match up in Scotland, I would have said at the maximum sort of 50 or 60. Were they predominantly women or men? Quite a lot with family. Right, OK. Mostly I would have said women. There were some men, some men. What did your parents say when you said, I want to play football? What did dad say? My dad was over the moon. He was so, so pleased. I mean, I did all sports. I did netball, I did rounders. I ran for the county, I played badminton. But football just came naturally to me.

8:33I never had a trainer as such. All our trainers did was they played football as men. from their training they came down and taught us what they knew. But your parents were supportive of you playing football? Oh absolutely my dad was over the moon and my mum always enjoyed football as well so they were really really pleased and so supportive. I mean obviously I was sort of quite young and they paid for everything and my boots, my travelling, everything. What colour was your strip? The England one was a white shirt with blue shorts. So pretty much the same as it is now And did you have three Lions?

9:10No, we just had a WFA badge on it. OK. Not three Lions. And it was nowhere near the quality of what the women play in now. Ours was like a thick cotton. Can I just ask, which football team were you supporting when you were young and who do you support now? When I was growing up, it was Manchester City. My favourite player then was Frances Lee. Oh, yeah, Franny Lee. Yeah, brilliant. And now I still, I love the women's football. I suppose I should support Man City, but I think Arsenal are a pretty good outfit. Men's team, I want to say Man City, but you've got to say Southampton, even though they're in the mess they're in because it's your hometown.

9:50That brings Ellen in nicely, Man City and Arsenal. You've played for both of them, haven't you? I have, yes. How are you, Ellen? Firstly, congratulations. You've got a 12-week-old, I think, in another room very nearby. you are both kind of doing a lot for the world cup in promo so i appreciate you being here and congratulations on being euro 2022 winners i mean that was just phenomenal yeah oh no thank you yes it's obviously uh a little bit different obviously having a little girl but it's amazing now it was a crazy summer ridiculous last year to think it was a year ago now yeah it's just unbelievable what we achieved it's something that uh yeah i've dreamed since i was a little girl really where will you be watching the first game i'll be at bbc in salford actually uh so i'll be on you being a pundit we're doing a little bit on bbc 5 live and then we're not doing the england game but then i'll be doing the group game after that so i'll be watching keen fan in my england shirt definitely what will you be eating and snacking on it's going to be in the morning isn't it so oh yeah of course because it's new zealand australia isn't it so coffee obviously definitely coffee i do like a bacon sandwich to be fair now now i've retired i can eat what i want it's so nice oh i want to know about this so how yeah how different is it and also you are a new mum so you're probably carb loading the whole time because you're just exhausted oh yes was it incredibly strict when you were playing professionally like i mean what would your day look like and how kind of strict did you have to be with food it's got more yeah strict or or i'd say like the funding obviously got a lot better like nutrition wise having nutritionists and obviously a lot more research into the physiology of what works for you to help you perform to the best of your ability yeah when I was initially kind of growing up and going through the ranks I was kind of pretty much eating anything and everything it wasn't until probably when I was at Notts County like 2014 was when I became professional that you know you really started to kind of hone in on on all the nutrition and everything like that but yeah say say if I was a England I'd wake up and have like porridge or something like that if we were training in the mornings uh carbo load get ready for the session would you add protein to that too just to have the protein in there or was it not as important was it more important to have carbs yeah I'd have like maybe like a smoothie or something like protein I probably have after training okay but yeah I'd probably have like yeah porridge with like fruit and honey that type of thing so I could get through the session and run as much as I possibly could.

12:23And then, yeah, I'd probably load up on the protein and everything kind of at lunchtime. So a lot of like, I love chicken and like rice and then, yeah, like a protein shake, something like that. Loads of veggies and like loads and loads of fluids really to replace what you've kind of lost at training. So now it would be a bacon sarni and a coffee and sitting and watching. And that sounds quite, you seem quite happy with that, to be honest. I am. Quite looking forward to that bacon sarni and ketchup. I think before I retired, I was like, oh, I'm going to do triathlons. I'm going to be this like insane runner and do all this stuff.

12:55But I'm like, nah, I'm going to have a baby. I'm going to eat a bacon sandwich and eat crisps and have a diet coke watching some TV. So and I'm all right with that. I'm pretty happy with that. Good on you. I mean, Lynn, what were you? Obviously, there wasn't any funding like there is now. And so diet and training. Was there anybody in your camp that would be trying to direct you with that? Or was it very much you were left to your own devices? We all left our own devices. Were you sensible or unsensible? I mean, in that time, I feel like people weren't so obsessed with, there was not the same kind of interest in nutrition then, I presume.

13:29No, we left our own devices. But the fact was, round about when I was playing football, it was just the case of that we were very active. And we didn't sit in pubs and we didn't go down that culture. So we kept ourselves fit. We trained once a week, then it went to twice a week. and most of us would go out two or three times on top of that and just go and kick a ball. So how would you celebrate a win? Would you go to the pub and eat something there or obviously you were teetotal by that point. It was difficult because such a big age difference between us all. We would go away, usually we'd be taken on a coach and on the way back we'd stop at a pub.

14:07The parents or someone would go in and get a drink and we'd have crisps and maybe a pie or something but if it was a home match before the match um we just have sort of a normal breakfast and then after the match it was your roast dinner very different scenarios there then i guess what would you be having after your match then ellen would you still be pretty focused right was there ever if you'd done a win you had a few days off would you be allow yourself to be able to have a roast was that even allowed to be on the menu yeah no even at england camp now yeah we're very lucky to have like a chef that travels with the team now and amazing you need to have those meals don't you after a game or or maybe kind of in between kind of games there'll be roast on there'll be a barbecue yeah like after a game you can have pizza and you need to replenish yourselves you need to get as much food in as possible um so after a game is the best possible time to have like a pizza or a burger or something like that um and they seem to be okay with that did you have any kind of meal rituals you were so close and it seemed like there was such a sorority between you but were there any of kind of memorable meal moments together with the lionesses or any particular rituals you had um we had a little bit of downtime uh so jill as you know jill scott yeah she uh she likes to have a bit of fun and promote positivity jill is she is the the essence of positivity so she did a thing where you're in partners you had 10 pounds to go and dress the other person and we had a barbecue so basically dress them in whatever you wanted we'd all come out and then you go have a barbecue have a little bit of downtime have a little bit of fun and see who stitches each other up basically just to have a bit of a laugh who got the short straw ella toon was dressed in a red lobster blow-up outfit for 10 quid that's good yeah i know pretty decent that i dressed who i had demi stokes i went on i think it was like amazon and got her a prom dress she looked lovely with the hat and everything um so yeah I think I was apprehensive to start with I was like I can't do this but it was really fun actually to go outside your comfort zone something different and then we all came together and had like a barbecue so it was fun Ellen which football team that you've played for has the best grub oh that's a great question I'd have to just say England to be honest really do you know what the I've only been at one club that's had food provided that was when I went to Man City all the other clubs I provide I had to bring my own food so it's not but that's not the same for the men is it no no no but you know what that's really interesting I don't know if either of you have been to see Dear England yet it's at the National Theatre it's about Gareth Southgate's building of the England team and it's really fascinating it's about kind of masculinity it's about how he brought psychology and a female psychologist psychotherapist and Alex Scott is a character in it and she says something to Gareth Southgate about being like you know we're only allowed on the pitch when all the boys have gone and Gareth goes thank you for making me aware of this do you feel like now that you've won the Euros things have really changed for women's football in case of support and attention and respect you get the fact that I mean seems like City were already giving you meals I find it really funny that you would have to bring your own packed lunch to arsenal i mean any way that i can dig arsenal um that's perfect for me so there you go yeah yeah it's obviously taken a while obviously you know lynn and the 1972 women and those women that have come after lynn as well they've really kind of broke down a lot of barriers smashed down barriers they've had to kind of fight and you know they've really paved the way for us to allow us and the next generation to be able to succeed and to have food provided a club to have facilities to have funding and I think they've helped us obviously to win the euros they're a part of that and I think you know it has changed a lot of perceptions and it's only been the last kind of couple of years especially with England that we were allowed to train on the on the main pitch at St George's Park essentially we always said oh it's the men's pitch Serena came in and was like why are we not training on that pitch And they were like, uh, she's like, I'm, I'm training on that one.

18:20That that's where I'm trained. That's where my team's training. So it took a lot for opinions to change for, for someone to come in and fight. And it feels like it's just been a constant battle, smashing down barriers all the time. But I feel like times are starting to change. And especially, you know, I'm really passionate about like grassroots football, for instance. And I know for a fact, there's still a lot of girls teams that still have the awful pitches, the worst facilities they have to play after the boys it's still a fight um so we still got a way to go but obviously it is moving in the right direction lynn you were recognized at wemberly last year and you know ellen's just talked about you being a trailblazer the 1972 women's team being trailblazers how did it feel being recognized and being in a huge stadium when you would have been around 50 people far less funding far less attention far less respect I presume how did it feel to be on that stage at that time was it bittersweet well it was um it had taken us a long time to get the FA to recognize us all we ever wanted was to get a cap and eventually the FA They gave in and gave us our caps on that night at Wembley when they played the USA.

19:41They gave us a shirt in the changing room. Jill Scott gave it to us. They gave us a shirt, a cap, and we walked. It was only the 72 Lionesses that got their caps on that night. It was the first, I think, 13 or 15 of us that got it. All the other Lionesses were invited, and then they walked us around the pitch. and the applauds we've got from people. I never, ever in my lifetime thought I would get anything like that. It was very, very emotional. One of the best nights of my life and I was so proud to have played in 72, but it took us a long time to get it and my legacy number was the thing that I wanted more than anything and I got it that night.

20:28Congratulations. That was 50 years, Lynn. Yeah. Wow, goodness. Thank God things have changed a bit. Going back to something that Ellen said just now, prior to them inviting us on that night, they invited, and I don't know if you were there, Ellen, they invited us about a year ago to come to walk around the pitch, but we weren't allowed to walk on the grass. We had to walk along the side of the grass, and we asked why, and they said, no, you can't walk on there. And then halfway way through they had a draw and a lady won something and they took her on the pitch in high heels but we weren't allowed to walk on the grass and only about a month later on the television you saw one of the England players walking across the pitch in his normal clothes picking up his salva that he'd won there is a big difference still so we've still got a way to go to be honest oh Oh, absolutely.

21:28I would like to, Lynn, go back to the mood when you were playing in the first England women's team. Did you encounter a lot of sexism and discrimination? Not when I played for England. OK. I must admit, when you played on your local pitches, well, yeah, you did. You shouldn't be there playing football. You should be home looking after your husband. You should be doing the washing and all this sort of stuff. But, you know, I wasn't going to be home doing the washing up. but to the older girls that were playing I think they just brushed it off another one they turned around and say oh you're going to change shirts after the match oh god oh yeah absolutely and then you nutmegged them Ellen has it changed for you now do you still get catcalling and I think it's slightly different now because it's social media so someone sits behind a keyboard Yeah, right.

22:22Says nasty things. Yeah. And I think, yeah, that, yeah, that still happens. Go back in the kitchen. Yeah, you shouldn't be playing football, that type of thing. It still happens now, but it's a little bit different. The fact that, yeah, it's behind a computer and it's on social media. Is your husband very supportive of your career? Does he play football? He's actually rugby, or he used to play a little bit of rugby. And then, yeah, he works in football and he loves football. Yeah, he's literally travelled the whole world, supported me, moved house two or three times, depending on where I'm playing.

22:53So, yeah, he's been amazing. So I feel very lucky. And, yeah, he's just a super fan. Where were you brought up, Ellen? Buckinghamshire, Ellsbury. So how did you end up playing for Manchester City? I moved a few times, to be fair. So I started out at my primary school team, all boys, no girls teams at the time. Got banned when I was nine. What did your parents say when you got banned? I mean, it feels very dramatic to ban a nine-year-old for a talent. Yes, it's weird. My dad, obviously, yeah, they did fight, you know, saying it was absolutely ridiculous. Yeah, absolutely ridiculous. I still don't understand the actual reason.

23:30I don't know whether it was like changing rooms. I was like, well, I could just go into the other changing rooms. That would make more sense. so yeah it was it was just such a weird one really to obviously band at that age but I was very fortunate to have been scouted by Arsenal so I went straight to Arsenal Centre of Excellence which is an all-female outlet but I still I still went and played boys tournaments with with my friends they weren't gonna stop me doing that to be fair so I stayed at Arsenal till I was 8 to 16 and then I moved to Chelsea Leeds went back to Arsenal and then I started to kind of move north a bit more how did the other boys react to you being better than them at nine were did they show you respect or did you feel like they found it quite hard to deal with the boys on my team were amazing um they were like my best friends um super supportive and i know for a fact that we turn up to play different teams and they'll be like there's a girl playing that'd be interesting and my mom and dad always laugh and say that i literally just ran through and just scored and they were like ah so yeah I pretty much just let my football do the talk and I think I was just so oblivious I just loved playing football I had the most supportive team I was very lucky so I wasn't probably too aware of of what was being said it was probably my mum and dad that that were kind of standing back going watch and then she'll prove you wrong see I can't remember women's football till bend it like Beckham exactly the same is that the same for you as well 100 % that was when I first new professional football existed in America.

24:56Me too. So when was that Bandit Light Beckham? Like, was it the 90s? Yeah, I want to say like late 90s. How old were you then, Ellen? I want to say like 10. Okay, okay. So you were already playing football. Something like that. Yeah. So professional football for women started in the States. Yeah. So it didn't become professional in England until 2014 is when I first got my professional contract. But then I don't think all the teams in the league were fully professional. I'd say it's only been the last few years that, you know, that every single team has got full professional outlet, like outfield players.

25:34Which was the last team you played for? Man City. And did you meet Pat Guardiola? He did come and watch a few training sessions, to be fair. I didn't physically meet him, but yeah, he was very supportive. He was really nice. Lynn, do you think last year's Euro 2022 victory would have been possible without the support and funding? Resources, equipment, coaching to young players, development, all of that? Absolutely not. The National Lottery has put so much money into women's football. There's no way that it would have grown like it has. And thanks to the fact that the Lionesses won the Euros, it's only going to make more and more people want to play football.

26:13and hopefully after the World Cup exactly the same because after the men won the World Cup in 66, that's when I started. And Ellen, how important is it that that funding from organisations like the National Lottery is used to get the next generation of girls inspired, falling in love with the beautiful game? Even if most of us, I'm talking about like I'm a girl, mum thought that OG meant old girl, by the way. It made me laugh a lot. What does it mean, Jessie? Original gangster. Did you know you're an original gangster, Lynn? Well, no, I had to ask somebody what OGs was. Thank you. I thought it was old girls.

26:48Thank you, Lynne. What do you prefer, Lynne? Old girl or original gangster? I think old girl's good enough. Yeah. But even if the majority will not be going pro, I feel very excited for my daughter to be watching the World Cup. I mean, I remember as soon as the Lionesses won, every parent on whatsapp was like is that girls united on a peck and rye is it available is it still going on a sunday should we sign up it was just like this onslaught of everyone signing their daughters up for for football yeah i think it's amazing i think you know national lottery have given like 50 million to grassroots football which is incredible um and i recently went to a local club right near me where i live um and the amount of girls that play in football is just amazing and I've recently gone back to my local primary school and I was the only girl playing football and there was literally 25 girls I felt really like emotional I was like oh my god this is incredible and that was before the Euros my husband works in like sports development and honestly the amount of grassroots team who were inundated like you just said Jesse that were just inundated with girls wanting to play football was just phenomenal and it was almost like too much for them because it was just such like an onslaught just everyone wanted to play football which is incredible we still have a way to go obviously to reach like every community diversifying it um and making it inclusive for any everyone accessible for everyone but it is incredible that so many young people want to play football and feel inspired and feel empowered and like you say you don't have to be like i wasn't amazing but enjoy it with a smile like you meet new people friends like it's an incredible feeling to be part of a team Ellen you've got a daughter haven't you yeah will you be being a pushy footballing parent and wanting her to go into the game or would you say you know what it's too stressful I only get to eat chicken and porridge most days just don't do it doll I just want her to be happy I feel like I've met so many people already and been like oh do you think she'll play for England and I'm like, she's 12 weeks old.

29:06I have no idea. Like, she's got a decent pair of legs on her. I'll give her that. But yeah. Does she have an England football shirt? She's been given one. The lionesses have already given her one. How many baby grows did she get that were like England related? Do you know what? None. Oh, there's still time, babe. Yeah. No, she has a full England kit now. So she'll be wearing that. She's about to go into three to six months. So there you go. I wondered if your first dance was to Sweet Caroline. What a song, what a song. It's such a good song. It's kind of made me like it. I didn't like it before it became this football anthem.

29:45I don't know, Lynn, was there a song that you used to play with your teammates that would get you going? Not really. No, not like this does now. You've only got to hear this now, and it just brings a smile to your face. yeah absolutely i agree it is magic lynn i would like to know we ask everybody you're about to go to a desert island there will be no football there and none of your favorite food so i'd like both of you um we'll go with lynn first your last supper it's a starter a main a pud and a drink of choice what are you going to have on the dinner table this is showing my age a prawn cocktail Oh, I love it.

30:25Very retro. I like it. It's come back, Lynn. Don't worry. It's back in vogue now. Everyone loves a prawn cocktail. Oh, that's all right then. Shepherd's pie with lots of vegetables. Ooh. Would you have a little pickle with that? Branston pickle or ketchup? No, that's a northern thing. Is it? It is. Yeah, we don't do that down here. Chessie, now you know. Look, don't knock it until you've tried it. Actually, do you put brown sauce on it, Lynn? Yes. Yes. Yes. And cheese. Yeah, love you. Oh my goodness. Okay, fine, thank you. Pud? It's difficult for... I like profiteroles and I like cheesecakes. I think you can have both.

31:10You can have both. Yeah? And what's your drink of choice? Can I say the make diet Pepsi? Of course you can. You can say what you like, absolutely. Diet Pepsi. You can probably get sent some now. And Ellen, I'm presuming that you're not going to go with a professional footballer diet. Let's see what you're going to give us. Starter, main, pud, drink of choice. Do you know what? I'm not a big fan of starters. Can I just go straight for main? You can do what you like. You are a Euro 2022 winner, okay? My dad's Christmas dinner. What's so good about it? Well, he used to be a chef, so he just goes so over the top.

31:48The turkey, gammon. He's had goose before. All the like roasties, mash you could think of, red cabbage stuffing. He hasn't done Yorkshire before. We don't have Yorkshies on a Christmas dinner actually. We don't either. No. No. Gravy. Yeah, it's so good. Pudding. My grandma's apple and raspberry crumble with custard. Oh, apple and raspberry. Oh, that's a nice idea. What a nice combination. What's the topping like? Is it just pure butter and sugar and flour? Or has it got any kind of oats on it? No, it's just old school, pure butter. Just like nice thick, like crumble on top. It was so good. Cream or custard?

32:30Custard. Do you know what? I do love custard, but then have like a scoop of ice cream as well. Oh, a la mode, they say. Isn't a la mode with cream and ice cream? No, it's ice cream, darling. Just ice cream, a scoop. Oh yeah, right. Got it. Got it. And drink of choice, Ellen. If I'm going a bit fancy, I'd have like an orange squash, but if I was going a bit fancy, I'd have like a Laurent Perrier rosé or something like that. Oh, yeah, me too. My favourite. It's so good. It's so good. I've missed a little glass of that. When you won, was there a lot of champagne about? I think we saw that they were so hungover when they were.

33:06It was so amazing. Yeah, the sunglasses were out. Yeah, we did not know we were going to Trafalgar Square. We did not know that was happening. And then we kind of basically, it was quite funny. We got literally woke up and there's just people lying in the corridors. Like must have been a good night. And then we had a meeting and people literally had glasses on, head between their legs, just going, well, this is not good. And then we, yeah, stood out, Trafalgar Square, sunglasses on, hungover as hell, but what a night. And what was your hangover breakfast that you had or couldn't you stomach anything?

33:39I think I just had a few pastries to be fair. Fair enough. Yeah. See, Lynne, you won't be having this problem at the weekend. You'll be the friend that is getting everybody else home and with a clear head in the morning and a clear conscience. Absolutely. Lynne, do you like cooking? I wouldn't say that it's top of my list. I cook to eat. Okay. I love all the fancy foods, but I can't spend all the time doing it. I'd like to. My dad was a chef. Oh, really? Was he? Absolutely. And what was your favourite meal that he used to cook you? As Ellen said, his roast dinners were absolutely brilliant. His roast potatoes were to die for.

34:19Really? Absolutely brilliant. Ellen, can I ask you, you benefited from funding made possible thanks to National Lottery players. For two years, you were supported by the Talented Athlete Scholarship Scheme. It's a National Lottery funded partnership. What impact do you think that that scheme and funding had for your career? It was amazing, that funding. TAS really helped me in terms of travel for extra training sessions so it supported my strength and conditioning sessions that I did outside of my club basically so it really helped me learn and develop different kind of movements and develop my strength and conditioning with with a coach but this is something that the male team would just they'd have in-house right yeah so you had to have this kind of funding from national lottery players to be able to access this yeah 100 % so So they, yeah, enabled me to be able to access this coach, which was at Bisham Abbey, which was about 45 minutes an hour away from me.

35:12Incredible facility. So, yeah, I was very lucky to kind of have coaches that were dedicated in helping to develop sports athletes in strength and also conditioning type of things. So basically helping me last as long as I could on the pitch, really. how would you encourage women that want to have thought about playing football but haven't found a team or what would you say to them do you know what that I've had women actually come up to me where I live since the Euros like mums older women as well and literally they just created a group together and went to the local park and started kicking a ball around oh wow and I it gave me like goosebumps because I was like that's just incredible you're you've created a little community for yourselves you're going out you're enjoying it you're meeting new people you're playing football you're having fun you don't have to be the best at something to to create a lovely environment so uh yeah i'd just say there's so many kind of sessions that you can do especially for young people that you can join but there's loads of groups now available kind of facebook or anything like that in your local area where you can join and just go and have fun and meet new people really lynn do you think england are going to bring home the world cup yeah so i was going to say is it coming home oh you don't look i want i want them to i want them to but i think the final might be a difficult one who do you think is going to be in the final is it the usa i think so yeah i really do is she still playing what's the name rapino yeah she's still playing yeah oh god it doesn't actually show they've had funding and support and it's been far more more prioritised in the USA for the women's team for far longer.

36:54So I guess what England are doing and what they did last year and showed is so brilliant. But thanks to organisations such as the National Lottery and National Lottery players, things can only get better, right? Absolutely. It would be absolutely brilliant to just win it and that would prove that we're going in the right direction. Lynne and Ellen, it's been such an honour to chat to you. You're utterly inspiring, the both of you, and I just thank you. this has been so wonderful to talk about football for an hour and a little bit of food what would you cook mum for the England football team if they were going to bring it home or as a commiseration meal clearly I've got to do a big roast yeah it seems like it would go down well because that's what everyone wants and I don't know a nice dessert but I did get mixed up at the beginning and I did call you goddesses rather than lionesses and I think it's very apt so I think you're both goddesses who've done so brilliantly well for english football thank you and i'm really proud and happy to have talked to you you're very sweet thank you very much thank you thank you best of luck everyone's invested but it feels like the team is an extension of both of you and so yeah i wish you all the best and thanks so much and i hope all the promo that you're about to have to do for the world cup i hope it's painless yeah me too thank you no thanks so much for having us on guys yeah thank you very very much thank you

38:28Our first footballers on the podcast. And how interesting they were. It was really fascinating and a pleasure to hear their stories. Completely different experiences of playing football. Thank you so much to everyone that's listened. And thank you to Ellen White and Lynn Hale for being on this. Good luck to the Lionesses out in New Zealand and Australia. Come bring it home for us. And thank you so much to the National Lottery for making this episode happen. Remember, every time you play the National Lottery, you help support amazing good courses all over the UK. Thanks to the National Lottery players.

39:03Over£50 million has been raised for women's football over the past 10 years. It's amazing what the National Lottery does for people. and it's amazing to see what else women's football can achieve with funding like this. Thanks for listening to this episode brought to you by the National Lottery. And we'll see you very, very soon. Jessie. What? Sweet Caroline. Bum, bum, bum. Good times never seem... Yeah, anyway. You've got to go so good, so good. Anyway, thank you so much.

39:41Thank you.