Chaka Khan

0:00I got it, automated, automated, oh.

0:03Jessie Ware: Jessie's new album, Superbloom, is available to pre-order now. There's a 10 % discount if you go to her store, jessieware.com, and put in table manners. James Norton's not included. T's and C's apply.

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2:07Lennie Ware: Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with... Why are you looking so shocked? Nothing, I'm looking at you. You look shocked, like you've never seen me before, or I'm a ghost.

2:16Jessie Ware: Yeah.

2:16Lennie Ware: Are you okay, London?

2:17Jessie Ware: Are you a ghost? Yeah?

2:18Lennie Ware: No? Bye?

2:18Jessie Ware: Where have you been this week, Lenny? I went to my old university. Oh, yeah? And I spoke to students about podcasting. And they were very, very interested. Prof Len. Prof Len. Not really prof. Doc? Doc. Did you get an honorary doctorate? That would be nice. That would have been nice. Actually, I'm going to mention that. She'd just written and said thank you. And I said, where's my honorary doctor? Doctor Len. So we can have two doctors in the family. Yeah. It was very interesting. They asked very interesting questions. They asked something, which hadn't really struck me with our podcast. Are we concerned about AI?

2:57Jessie Ware: I said, well, I want like a fake image of myself. Something like a deep fake of me. They put me on the head of something. I don't know. But I'd never thought about AI in our podcast. Had you? No. Neither had I. Are you worried now? I am slightly because they can clone your voice, Jess. Oh, God.

3:16Lennie Ware: They've got years to go by. Oh, God. Yeah. Well, I've never thought about that, but thank you for stressing us out.

3:23Jessie Ware: Did you see my tree?

3:24Lennie Ware: Your tree in the back. Has it been moved? No, the one at the front. Your magnolia is looking divine. Is magnificent. It's the best. Divine. It is the best magnolia ever. You know, my main memory of that, and I think I thought I was in, like, Dawson's Creek or a teen coming of age. Yeah. I used to sing the bangles up there. You sat in the little fork of the tree.

3:47Jessie Ware: I really thought I was Joey. But did you know you can eat magnolia tree buds?

3:52Lennie Ware: Yes, you saw that from Valentine Warner.

3:55Jessie Ware: Auntie Liz sent it to me. You eat them and they taste gingery. Should I try something? Do you think I should put one on the plates today to make it look nice? I think we're all right. It's probably got like fox piss on it and stuff. Well, they'd be clever if they could piss up there. I'm super sonic piss.

4:12Lennie Ware: Anyway, this is awful language. We have a queen. Oh my goodness. No, stop. Don't. Shh. Shh. Shh. Shh. God. This is massive. And I have to say, and I'm going to put it out there now, I'm probably going to fawn over her a little bit. You have to just forgive me. She is like one of my ultimates. So just like, it may not be my greatest interview. So sue me. I'm in the presence of greatness. Of royalty. And I just need to take that in. So I'm sorry if I trip over my words. I don't ask the right questions. This is huge.

4:51Jessie Ware: It is big. I'm Every Woman must be on everybody's top 10 records.

4:57Lennie Ware: Yeah, I was with my producer, Carmichael, yesterday, and he was like, when he was a young boy, that was his top, top song. It still is.

5:04Jessie Ware: Yeah, it can't not be, especially on, we've just had International Women's Day on Sunday.

5:10Lennie Ware: Yeah.

5:11Jessie Ware: Yeah. Bet she gets a load of spins on that day.

5:12Lennie Ware: I bet she does. Don't think she wrote it, though. She didn't. I think Ashford and Simpson wrote it. I love it. But still, it lives on.

5:19Jessie Ware: Ashford and Simpson Overdrive, that's what they were called. What? Ashford and Simpson Overdrive. That was the name of their group. Oh, okay.

5:27Lennie Ware: Well, anyway, we have Shaka Khan coming on. You know, she doesn't like to be called the Queen of Funk. She's the Queen of Everything. She's done incredible collaborations. She is one of the greatest voices ever. every great singer loved and respected her. She sung at Aretha Franklin's funeral, had like a standing ovation for that. It was like a nine minute performance, which was just stunning. What did she sing? What's it go? Go on yonder or something like that. It was really beautiful. Prince loved her. Stevie Wonder loves her. She's just been on tour with Gladys Knight, Patti LaBelle and Stephanie Mills.

6:05Lennie Ware: Why didn't we go? I don't know, actually.

6:08Jessie Ware: They're all my favourites.

6:09Lennie Ware: She's just unbelievable.

6:11Jessie Ware: But I remember her in Rufus when she first started out. Tell me something good.

6:17Lennie Ware: Anyway, she's waiting outside in the car. I think she'll sing.

6:20Jessie Ware: Can we encourage it a little?

6:22Lennie Ware: Maybe. Yeah. Shaka Khan coming up on Tableman's.

6:36Lennie Ware: Shaka Khan, you're here looking gorgeous. Absolutely outstanding. I mean, you are a fine wine. Well, I'm 73 this month. No, stop. You're showing off now. I'm 73 now, I'm not showing off. I've never been cut, never been snitched or snitched. Look at that skin. I don't believe in it.

6:57Jessie Ware: No, I haven't yet. And you look amazing. I'm 74. You're beautiful. Thank you very much. I don't feel it. You do, but I feel the lines. Girl, you have to. It's the last six months you wait. No, no, no, no. I'm already there. What I do, you've got to do, you've got to grease that face. You've got to get all that face up before you go to bed. What do you do? Which one do you use? There's some good oils. You can use anything from baby oil to your favorite lotion that has got some growth to it. Just pop that shit on and go to sleep. I put a mask on last night. Oh, did you? Yeah, I needed something.

7:33Jessie Ware: Those things help, especially in wintertime. Especially in winter. It's so dry.

7:38Lennie Ware: Do you do any massage on the outfits? Oh, hell no. I don't have time for that. I don't have time for any of that. I got kids. Well, the kids are grown, but I got the grandkids. The great-grandkids. And the great, great. I'm very close to them, and we just do what we do.

7:54Jessie Ware: But you've got great bones, but also you smile all the time. Yeah. So that makes you look beautiful anyway. I do grin a lot. Yeah. Life is funny. But, you know, you've almost lived five people's lives because your life has been so rich and so full. So freaking freckly. She's so got that right. Yeah, it's just you've done so much. Because I remember Rufus when I was a teenager. It was just so sensational because it was just. We were both teenagers. Yeah. I was starting my career. So it was just Rufus was just fabulous. I know. Yeah. As I know. I left home at 16. I ran away. Well, yeah. Because I knew that what my parents were looking for and looking for to happen for me, you know, to go to college.

8:42I said, this is so not me. I was an avid reader, my father and I. He was sort of a beatnik back then. You know, smoked weed and, you know, back then played kongas. But he was a genius. He was a great guy. My best ever friend. I was so blessed to have a father like that who was, you know, right on my, right there where I was. We were together. And he was a photographer as well. So he had me in front of the camera, make love to the limbs. He was a funny and a wonderful guy. I was so lucky to have my grandmother and my father in my life. because my father asked me, he said, well, Yvette, do you think, that's my given name, Yvette, do you think you want to go to college?

9:25I said, no. He said, good. He said, because anything that you want, you can read up on it and you can do it. But how old were you when you knew you had a voice? Well, you know, we were singing. As long as I can remember, my mother and father were both really good singers. Okay. And when we used to clean up on weekends or whatever, or do spring cleaning or whatever, they turn on all the Ella, Sarah, Billy, Max Roach, everybody. My father was about the male jazz people. My father was about all the women singers. And from Yima Sumac to Aretha Franklin. We heard everything. So I grew up listening to that stuff.

10:11and it was just a natural thing. It was just a natural thing for me. It was just like, you know, I thought everybody did that. I thought all kids cleaned up.

10:20Jessie Ware: But no one has Chaka Khan's voice. No. No.

10:23Lennie Ware: I want to go back to painting this picture of who was around the dinner table and what you were eating. But before I ask that, you being a grandma, your mother, grandma, great-grandma, are you playing those greats to your kids? or are they demanding K-pop demon hunters like mine are? Which is also great, great vocals. Yeah. But like, are you able to kind of pass on the education to them? Some songs, but they're not into it. And I don't play a lot of music. Okay. You know, that's work for me kind of. I hear you. I love it. Yeah. But, you know, when I'm not singing, I'm not singing. I'm doing other things.

11:02I got lots to do.

11:04Lennie Ware: I know. And we can get onto this because I want to know all that. I really wanted you to have your singing bowls with you because I love watching you on Instagram and seeing you holding these meditations. Yes. You are like mother nature in, like, persona. You are everything. Not only are you the greatest singer, you can, like... I'm kind of like anybody's grandma as well. You know, people tell me all the time, they say, I grew up listening to you. You know, my grandma used to play your songs. My mother used to play your songs. So I'm like a household name in a way. and that's a beautiful thing.

11:37It was gorgeous. That's a wonderful thing. I mean, I couldn't see some other artists, you know, whose butts are out and everything, and ticks are out and everything, and they're rolling on stage and cuckoo. I just don't understand that. You keep it classy, Shaka. I kept it, yeah. Well, I tried to keep it. Well, I'm a recovering Catholic, so that helped.

11:59Lennie Ware: Well, let's talk about that. Did you, I mean, you said that you were inspired by all these jazz greats and hearing it on your spring cleaning on the weekends and stuff. But were you singing in church as well? Yeah, I did. Well, we had a choir. Okay. But we were singing like, I will not leave you. I will not leave you comforted. There was like nothing funky. Nothing soulful or funky about that. Catholic Church. Okay, yeah. So, well, can you paint the picture of who was around the dinner table and what was a very famous, memorable dish from your childhood? Well, we pretty much ate the same. boring stuff.

12:36Stuff that we liked as kids. Spaghetti. My father made a mean his brother and his family are from New Orleans. They made a mean all the New Orleans dishes, all the gumbo and all the good stuff. My dad would do those make those big pots of good stuff occasionally. We had, as a Catholic family, of course we had fish on Friday. Okay. We didn't have meat on Friday. But we had so much chicken coming up that today I can't handle chicken. Really? I'm going to turn into a chicken if I eat any more chicken. You chickened out. I'm done. So we had lots of chicken. Who was cooking? Was it your grandma or your mom?

13:23My father and my both cooked. They were both good cooks. And my grandma, sometimes she cooked. She made the dishes like cabbage and cornbread. On the side. Cabbage. Cabbage. How would she do her cabbage? Well, you cut up the cabbage. You put some onions and garlic and you boil it. Oh, yum. And put some potatoes in there. Oh, nice. It's delicious. And cornbread on the side. That's one of my favorite dishes today still.

13:49Lennie Ware: And you have siblings? Yes, I have two sisters. Yeah. And one brother. And did they appreciate the food too? Yeah. It's especially my sister. Taka. Well, her given name is Yvonne. So we're Yvette and Yvonne. Okay. What's the age difference? We're named after the French archers. Oh, okay. Yeah, there was a story about these twin sister French archers. We're a year and six months apart. Okay. God, you're close. Yes, yes. So we were like, right there. Yvette and Yvonne, we're talking about her sister. Yeah, I mean, I was named Yvette Marie, and she was named Yvonne Maude after my grandmother Maude my favourite grandmother and I'm after my father's mother

14:35Jessie Ware: I like the French influence Yvonne and Yvette well they're Creole on my father's side so we have that great cooking great seasoning of food you know you can have everyday stuff but they really added some hot sauce to it

14:53Lennie Ware: can you cook? yeah I can cook what's like well your daughter's in the other room and I wonder if she wants to come on the mic and tell everyone what her mum's best dish is what do my mum you ought to tell her what my best dishes are Dana sure she loves it Gemini loves to talk come on baby bring it to her tell her what it is Dana come and join us at the table this is our Dana hi Dana great singer and songwriter as well really she writes the deepest lyrics you would ever I can't believe it where it came from at this youth at her age but she writes the most in-depth beautiful and I'm going to have her send you you're going to send her some of your lyrics yeah I would love to and she sings I will send you some of my songs she can sing God you speak to each other so lovely I need to

15:48Jessie Ware: be more polite to my mother you have such respect for each other so much admiration yeah And just respect and humbleness and, you know.

15:57Lennie Ware: So, come on, what's your mom's best dish?

15:59Jessie Ware: She makes amazing, these amazing garlic noodles that are so phenomenal. Yes, I'm a garlic girl.

16:05Lennie Ware: Sorry, by the way, Shaka just looked into the camera and seduced the camera when we ate garlic noodles. Yeah, she's like, that's my, that's my.

16:12Jessie Ware: Okay, tell me, what is that? She makes phenomenal, well, her garlic noodles is just, she does the egg noodles and she puts the garlic sauce in it. It's just the way she flavors it is amazing. You need help?

16:21Lennie Ware: No, I'm fine, darling. So we've got the garlic and noodles

16:26Jessie Ware: Phenomenal She makes I mean she makes a lot of I make a mean grilled cheese

16:32Lennie Ware: What's the secret to the grilled cheese? She makes the beautiful grilled cheese Which cheese? Well I like cheddar Very sharp cheddar cheese And the butter A lot of butter

16:46Jessie Ware: Will you offer some Look at this lovely table There's some voluvin, there's mushroom and cheese And prawn voluvin Oh, lovely. Thank you. And then there's some sandwiches. Beautiful. Well, it's a funny time to eat and you've been working all day and it's just kind of so picky bits. Yes. You know, fit for a queen. Do you know what I mean? She loves clatter cream every time we come out here. Oh, great. Perfect then. I'm going to have a scone, honey. She's so happy about this. She wants some. I'm eating. I'm having everything. I'm thrilled.

17:14Lennie Ware: This is heaven. So, Shaka and I met about a year or so. When did you do Royal Festival Hall? That was two years ago. I think it was two years ago. Yeah, two summers ago. And we get this email through my daughter's school being like, and my daughter was part of the choir, saying we've got the most amazing opportunity for the choir to go and sing with Shaka Khan at Southbank Centre. And I was like, I will volunteer for being a chaperone that day. Thank you so much. I begged that singing music teacher. I was like, you have to let me be on this trip. And so I've never been so willing to be on a school trip, I tell you that.

17:52Lennie Ware: It was such an amazing experience. You were singing with, I think it was like six in inner city schools. It was lovely. With the kids too. The kids sung and they prepared Tell Me Something Good. And they ate no ground. Right, they were background singing to me. Shaki, you got them working. Those kids were singing Tell Me Something Good on repeat for 20 minutes and you were just vibing as you do. And all the kids were kind of in this like trance with you because they were just going, tell me something good. And they were just going around. They were loving it. And then you were there. And you were ripping with them.

18:27Lennie Ware: It was magic. It was magic. It was magic. Children are magic, aren't they? Well, haven't you just been at a school now? Mm-hmm. Just came from school. So what were you doing in that? The same kids that came three years ago. Some of them were there. Okay, right. A few. But I met a whole new crop of kids. Yeah. We sang together. Yeah. I sang for them. They sang for me. We did some artwork. work is this part of your shakakhan foundation kind of work that you do i go to treat i go to schools all over the place in any city like i possibly can i go and we do you know all sorts of wonderful things to the children we uh talk about anything and everything often i have them just to myself i say no teachers no parents please just the kids and we just have wonderful wonderful conversations.

19:16Lennie Ware: When did this start? I've been doing this for like at least five, ten years maybe. I've been doing this with children going to schools. I love children. I think I probably would have ended up being a teacher if I hadn't, you know, the singing bug hadn't got me. Yeah, well it did. It's gone so lovely. Thank you so much. Oh, I didn't

19:35Jessie Ware: make those. Well, no, pleasure. Really good.

19:38Lennie Ware: So we've heard about you cooking. You can cook your daughter attests that it's you are a great cook and you're obviously a great mom and a grandma because she's been touring with you for 10 years and loves you and adores you do you like eating out or do you not really no okay is it why why is that when i do eat yeah i do that often i want to be comfortable i want to take off my shoes take off my clothes put on a gown i'm good I'm good right now, though. I'm good, but this is not a meal. This is like a little snack. It's lovely. I think I can keep my shoes on for this one. I'll try. But by the time I hit those sandwiches, it might be something else.

20:19Okay. But I don't, you know, I don't often get to, like, just lay back with my gown on. You know, look ugly. So where do you actually call home? Now I'm in Georgia. And how many months a year would you? Well, I've been there about four years. I bought like 80 acres of land. I've got my own lake.

20:43Lennie Ware: Wow. And I fenced it all around. The part that we're living in right now, there are many acres I have never seen yet. Most of it I've not seen.

20:53Jessie Ware: I'm not being personal, but do you live on your own? I live with my two sisters. Yeah. My sister has a house up the way. Yeah. She's got Thaw, Tammy. me. And the sister that's close to me, Taka, Yvonne, she lives in my house and my brother lives in my house. My mother has a room, the best room in the house, by the way. She comes to visit and she gets ready. She just left about maybe a month ago and she was with us for maybe like six months. But it's great. I mean, and what I got is I got a safe haven for the family. If things go crazy, this world is going left in many ways. It's a hell of a handbasket.

21:37So I want to have a safe place for everybody to come to. And it's going to come to, I'm sure it's going to come to something. America is so known for having cuckoo presidents.

21:50Jessie Ware: When did you get your start on the Walk of Fame? That was a long, quite a while. Yeah, a long, long time ago. Oh God, maybe 20 years ago. And was Stevie Wonder with you? Yes, he came. He's a good friend. He shows up. Is he? He always shows up for good things. He's got a great English accent. He does very good Cockney accents. Right, he does because he's from Cockney, right? He's like that when he's, he's one of those people that when you see him live, he's still just the same as he was. He's the same guy. He's got the same voice. He's incredible. He is incredible. He came and we're doing this, we've been doing this tour, sort of mini tour for the last couple of years.

22:28Patti LaBelle, Curtis Knight, and Stephanie Mills. Yes. What a line-up.

22:32Lennie Ware: Yes, right. Have you enjoyed it? Yeah, the singing part. Yeah, okay. But the music, the music. It's fine. I don't tour anymore. That's for kids. Too exhausting. It is exhausting. I find it hard, and I'm not kidding. It's cuckoo. It's hard. It's hard on every part of you. It's hard. But it's the best bit about the performance, right? You want to perform. I mean, you want to perform. You want to connect. You want to connect. You want to, yeah. So our problem has been how can we travel kindly in a way that won't tear us up? And that's almost impossible. It's just impossible. You can't do one city on Saturday and then they want you to another city on Sunday.

23:18For one thing, two shows back to back for me. It's a lot. If it's in the same place, that's one thing. I can handle that. But this traveling in between, it gets to you.

23:31Lennie Ware: But like, and you give, the vocal you give. I give 100%, 110%. You don't hold back on the vocal. No, and I don't have little things that I do in between. I don't do dancing. I don't do none of that stuff. I sing, period. You know what, it is inspiring. And I heard your Breakfast Club interview that you did with the gals. And you were all kind of commenting. And you were saying, you know, when we go on stage, we just sing. We don't need to do the bells and whistles. We don't need to show our bodies. I don't believe in that. And I do think that's really inspiring. I think she doesn't need to.

24:04Jessie Ware: She's sexy without showing her body.

24:07Lennie Ware: But even as somebody who is. Oh, shut. Thank you, Mum.

24:09Jessie Ware: She is. I know, but I think as somebody who is in pop music

24:14Lennie Ware: and a different generation, and you're not pop, but you kind of cross over into all the different genres. You're a soul, funk, pop, jazz star. You're everything, right? But do you think that the demands have changed on female performers now or do you think it's always been there? You just haven't played the game. The game has changed because all bets are off. These women are doing any and every damn thing on stage and trying to sing too. The ones who are doing the most physicalities with their butts and stuff and their body parts are the ones that usually are compensating for what they don't have.

24:58Jessie Ware: Move your bottom if you don't have the voice. Absolutely. So I came to sing and I came to really do a good job and that's hard work. But I don't feel like it's hard work whilst I'm doing it. I feel great. Do you still do prac like Jessie does? to when you're, do you tune up your voice before you go on? No, I don't need to do that. When I saw her,

25:23Lennie Ware: when I met her and I went over to Shaka when we were playing the same gig and I go over with my singing teacher, the least cool person I am. I'm like, hi, this is my singing teacher, Annabelle, and we love you and you've got a fag on. You're having a fag like that just before the show time. I'm like, you are an icon and there's me like steaming and, you know, not speaking. You rock and roll Well you know what It's not rocket science for me I've never had like a singing teacher That you know Was on the road with me And we do warm up though That's the warm up I do That one is a good one Have you got one of these things I know what you're going to say You're going to say no You got one of them You put it in water It's really good I'm going to change this water

26:18Jessie Ware: Do you have any backing singers? Oh, yeah. I have the best, strongest, most amazing backing singers ever. And they've been with me for over 10 years. I mean, that's the shortest time.

26:31Lennie Ware: When I was watching you perform and I was side stage and I was having the best time of my life, I was with your manager. Your lovely manager, what's his name? Cedric. Cedric. And I said, God, these players are unbelievable. And he said, Prince used to always fire people. And Shaka would always inherit the people that he fired. I just took the one to say, you do like this. They'd be playing on stage and Prince would say. While they're playing on stage. It's a whole lot of rude. You would snap, point to them, snap.

27:03Jessie Ware: Point, kick them out. Prince would fire people on stage. On stage, yeah. You've got new music out. Yes, I have. But whenever you are performing, everybody wants you to sing. The whole stuff that I've been singing for a hundred years. I'm so tired singing. The new album is fabulous. The album is Shaqzilla. Thank you. Have you heard some of it?

27:20Lennie Ware: Yeah. I've heard it all. Oh, good. You like it? Do you like it? It feels really true to you, and that's what I really like. It is because of the amazing writer that we collaborated with. She's now my goddaughter. Yeah, we need to get to the bottom of this. How is she your goddaughter? She's my goddaughter. She asked me. Oh, she asked her. She asked me, would you please be my godmother? I said, of course. Okay, will you please be my godmother? Of course. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you. Who's that work? You know, it's the heart. Great. I know our hearts meet. You know, I see where you come from.

27:57I see we are like family already. That's right. There's a family vibe going on here. And of course, I'd happily be your grandma. You're godmother.

28:05Lennie Ware: That's amazing, Shaka. Thank you. I just want you to take me out. Once a year, we go and have scones. And I just hear you sing. Maybe just come here and have a cup of tea. I'll be happy.

28:17Jessie Ware: Does it drive you mad to have to sing the old stuff too? Yes. I have to be honest. I will say it to you. Yeah. I don't want anyone else looking at this to feel any kind of weight or don't feel like I'm mean or whatever. What it is is I'm human. Yeah. And if you had to sing Mary Had a Little Lamb every day It would get to you Yeah It would get to you Except No I'm sorry Mary Had a Little Lamb is slightly more monotonous Yes Than I'm Every Woman Well my I'm Every Woman Mary It's not that way They're monotonous They're equally monotonous We were trying to work out on International Women's Day How many times that was sung I'm sure It costs you the train I'm every woman It's all in me Everybody knows it Little kids, young people Everybody knows it That's a blessing Of course The blessing is not lost on me I do get it And I am honoured and so thankful That I'm loved in the way that I am But it's a feminine power song Yes it is I mean it's a powerful song for women Most songs I sing Even though they may say I'm a woman But the lyrics I'm very, I'm about that I'm about if I'm going to sing Something to people who say something It has to be something of substance I really feel that way The lyrics are very important to me

29:49Lennie Ware: But I have to give you props Because you're 73 You're still working with people You're working with Sia And Greg Kirsten on this record These are brilliant, brilliant Musicians, producers writers on the last one you were working with switch for like sugar right like switch is one of the best producers like from major laser if people don't know he's brilliant and you're making a song like like sugar that it feels so fresh but i i love that you you're not complacent you keep on pushing whether that's opening up the shaka foundation um shaka khan foundation and and then i don't know i feel like you i don't discriminate you don't discriminate no i don't you don't And my mother used to get in my ass about that when I was young, coming up.

30:35She'd say, I mean, I bring friends over and, you know, some people will meet her. And they may look like bums or whatever, something that she didn't like about them. But I saw some beauty. I saw something that she would never see, you know. And I still get that a little bit. You know, I see things in people that other people don't see. And so I got a lot of that then. So I'm used to that crap. A lot of beauty is missed because people are looking at the outside and feeling haughty or feeling like they are better than. You know, people judge, the judgmental part of it. I don't like it.

31:14Lennie Ware: Like Sia and me, you're a good mother. And we had a ceremony and everything. Oh, yeah, tell us about the ceremony. We had a lovely party, a lovely party ceremony where everyone wore green. Green. Why green? We're red. I wore green. Oh, I'm going there to wear green. Why did you have to wear green?

31:31Jessie Ware: Because I was the godmother. What is, everyone else wore green? Everyone else wore green. Well, because I'm the godmother. Okay. Oh, okay, mother. I can find it. This seems like we distinguish me. Stop. Like we can get. It did look a bit. You're Elphaba. Look at us. Somebody looking in and not knowing what's going on. From Mars. What was going on here? Yeah. What the hell's really up? And what did Sia and the rest of the guests wear? They wore red. This feels quite Christmassy. Was it around Christmas time? Okay. You know, every weekend, every Sunday, she has these wonderful big parties for kids.

32:04I've heard about these. She's supposed to be the most proud part.

32:07Jessie Ware: Does she have her own child? Yes. Yes, she's got one son. But she's got this trampoline that is on the ground. You could walk right onto it. And I know it's there. Because it does have a hole in it. And when you look down, if you look close to it, look down, it's a hole with a lot of lovely pebbles under it. It's really sweet. Really, really smart Did you get on the trampoline? Of course I love it

32:30Lennie Ware: You are so kind of maternal and generous And you can see that And that's kind of why people are so I think somebody like Sia wants to have you in her orbit all the time And you've talked about how close you are Was there anybody that was like that for you? That was kind of your mentor? My grandmother was kind of like that My grandmother, my grandmother Everywhere I went She was doing what Dana is doing right now With me in a way Everywhere I went And I took the kids This way I could take the kids with me She was there So we spent a lot of time in Switzerland I did a lot of recording there Did you know Tina Turner?

33:10Jessie Ware: I met her a few times Because she was in Switzerland I knew Ike more Was he a bad guy or a good guy? He was a lovely human being He was a victim Of himself and of what we do for a living and of drugs and stuff like that. It was just, and me too. I was, we were having fun together. But it was not a good time in either of our lives. We were going through some shit. But shit happens in life. I mean, I'm like every human being. I've been there, done that. I've overcome. And I'm still here to talk about it. Thank God. Are you still friends with the Rufus people? Absolutely. And Ashford and Simpson?

33:58Jessie Ware: Absolutely. They were called Ashford and Simpson Overdrive, weren't they? I think that they did. That's what they did call themselves Overdrive. Overdrive, yes. I remember that. When her husband was still around. And they were very cool. Yeah, they were a lovely couple. They wrote really fine songs. They did great work.

34:14Lennie Ware: Can I talk, because you lived with Rufus, didn't you? Well, Rufus is the band. Yeah, but you lived with Rufus the band, didn't you? We all lived together at some point. Yes, we did. We started. Who did the cooking? Yeah. And weren't you all hippies? I don't know. We were hippies, so nobody cooked. You didn't eat. No, we didn't eat. Had baked beans. Were you just smoking? Yeah, but that was a while back. That was for a short time as well. Okay. We were just waiting for the record label to come through. The big one. Yeah. And it had happened and we were gone.

34:46Lennie Ware: Now, we've had many people grace this podcast that have a Prince story. And I know you and Prince were very, very close. And I'm so in awe You're one of the only people I think that Prince is ever allowed to cover I think you're the only person though That you've covered

35:00Jessie Ware: I remember so

35:02Lennie Ware: Huh? Oh yeah, nothing compares Fair enough But like Prince was like I mean Prince was obsessed with you Because like didn't he We had a special love We had a special love from the heart You were very close We had a special love and appreciation for each other Did you come out with him? That's my thing. No. Nothing romantic. Not your time.

35:26Jessie Ware: He was short, yeah. He's a lovely man. Lovely man. But you're not exactly tall, Shaka. No, I'm not. Is it funny how short women love tall men? Oh, you like tall men? Hell, I like a dog. I want to climb them. I want to climb a tree. Yes. I understand.

35:47Lennie Ware: Yeah, your interest was too small. I love it. Prince, the genius, you know, prolific.

35:53Jessie Ware: Was he good fun or was he a bit tricky? He was a deep thinker. Okay. Clever? And many people saw that. Clever? Very clever. Of course. Brilliant. Yeah, brilliant. Brilliant is what he was. And a lot of people misread that, being snooty or snotty or whatever. But he was really a gentleman, a true gentleman, a fine guy. He took care of me in many ways. He was really there for me. He was there for me like a friend and a big brother or daddy sometimes. He was a good man. He was a beautiful, beautiful human being. I sorely miss him, Whitney Houston, who was the comedian of life, death, and the after.

36:40That girl, she kept me.

36:42Jessie Ware: She sang your song in Bodyguard. Yes, she covered it. I remember. Yeah. Yes. She came to the studio. Her mother was a background singer for me in studio. Studio work. Sissy Houston. I'm Sissy Houston. Yes, great, great singer. She told me one day we were in the studio. She'd been singing with me for years. And one day she said to me, you know, I got a daughter that can sing. I said, ooh. I said, bring her down. She was only like maybe 13. And she brought her down. What did she sing? She sang, I heard her sang, a little background. I think it was on Love Is Falling On Me or something like that.

37:24It was one of my CDs I did with Adderf Martin. And she came down and she held her own. She was brilliant. And, you know, I thought to myself, I was thinking, God, she's going to be so great. She's a great, she really is. She was beautiful as well. Beautiful to look at, a lovely human being.

37:44Jessie Ware: But did she ever come to you when she was in trouble? Because you've been so open about struggles. We hung out and we were in trouble together.

37:51Lennie Ware: Uh-huh. Let's get this straight. There was a time when we were. Okay. But then I did get back together. So she was funny. She was really funny. God, she was a comedian. Really? She kept me in stitches. I miss her so much. Oh, I'm so sorry. Do you know her auntie, Dionne? Yeah, I know Dionne everywhere, who's also hilarious. She's also got a great sense of humour. Libra. We have fun. Oh, you Libra? No, I'm Aries. She's Libra. I'm Libra. Your Libra's my sister's Libra. Okay, is this why this is working so well? Okay, thank God. Right. Yeah, my sister is Libra. And my brother is Libra. I have two Libras.

38:28Do you do horoscopes a lot? Is that kind of part of your life? Well, you know, to me, it just gives me an overall sort of view of what planets are fucking with you.

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40:06I can follow the teams I care about, get real-time scores, breaking news, and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

40:21Lennie Ware: we do ask everybody the last supper um and you're not you're not going to die you're going to a desert island we're here oh okay desert island you're going to have a an appetizer a main a drink of choice and a dessert where are we going to have and i also actually because you know everybody and you have lived a life i need to know who is around that dinner table with you Dead or alive Dead or alive Okay yeah I figured that Because I don't mean It's sad to say But Most of my friends Are dead Okay Miles Davis Who else would I have What would Miles Be providing at the dinner table What would he be doing Music I mean Apart from music Well let's say They leave the axe at home As human beings As people Witty Funny as hell Okay We'll see Oh my god Hilarious You said it like you saw it.

41:16And I love people like that. A lot of people can't handle that. I'm your huckleberry. Yeah. Okay. Okay, Miles Davis, Prince. Yeah. Whitney. Yeah. Who else would I have?

41:29Lennie Ware: Nelson. Nelson Mandela. Would he get a seat at the table? He's a lovely man. And I definitely have him at the table. Because you went and you were invited to his house. Absolutely. It's birthday. You were invited to Nelson Mandela's birthday. Yes, right, right, right. And do you remember what was the dinner? What were you eating? It was some African food. It was good. Delicious? Yeah, it was very good.

41:48Jessie Ware: Food's great in South Africa. Yeah. The food is good. I went to a restaurant. Really good produce. Yes. I went to this restaurant where you go to eat stuff that people usually don't eat, you know, like worms and shit like that. Oh, my God. But I went. And? We did have, my son was really cuckoo. He was really like, why did he come? I said, why did you come to this dinner for us when you knew what we were going to be doing? Because he was like talking to everybody. He's like, you ought to eat that crap. And I said, yeah. I said, we're going to try it. We're going to try it. I'll see what's going on.

42:23So I'm game. So I had some, they brought a dish that looked like spaghetti.

42:26Lennie Ware: Yeah. And it had tomato sauce. Yeah. It smelled good. Yeah. Garlic. Everything was right. It was worms. Oh, my God. What, the spaghetti wasn't spaghetti. It was worms? It's delicious. I wouldn't have tried it. Oh, it was delicious.

42:39Jessie Ware: I tried it. It was delicious. We might all have to be eating that. You never know what's going to happen to you. Fair enough. I know. I just wanted to see. Yeah, I didn't eat a whole plate of anything. I tasted bits of everything almost. So my son, he ordered spaghetti.

42:55Lennie Ware: Yeah. But he said, I want real spaghetti. Yeah. So what we did was we switched his plate.

43:02Jessie Ware: That is mean. And he was eating and I was asking, so how is your spaghetti then? It's delicious. I think you mean. I got his ass. Did he still speak to you? He was pissed. I don't think he talked to me for a few minutes. I wouldn't talk to you either. No, he wouldn't. That would be awful. But he was being such a... Would you eat a worm?

43:21Lennie Ware: Well, I'd like to say if I could come to me, I probably would, you know.

43:25Jessie Ware: I'd give it a go. At this fab dinner party with a great background singing and music and everything, what would you be eating? What's your starter? My favourite starter, main course and dessert. I'm not big on food. She's there for the conversation and the laughter. So you just have little bits. I would, yeah, I'm a picker. Yeah, like appetizers. Well, yeah, but I'll eat. What do I like?

43:51Lennie Ware: Anything with garlic. Anything with garlic. Anything with a lot of garlic. Okay. I'm pretty much game for that. Okay. Have you got a sweet tooth? No, not really. Okay. Shaki, you're going to have to give me more than garlic for your last supper. Spaghetti, so I like spaghetti. Okay, so we can. I love spaghetti dishes. I love Italian food. Okay.

44:10Jessie Ware: Do you like a drink? Or do you not drink any? An occasional wine. Wine? Wine and red wine.

44:19Lennie Ware: You're not fussed, are you? A good one? I'm not fussed. A good one. A glass of wine. That's a good one. So, like, what's in your fridge? If we were coming round, what's always in there? Most of what's in my fridge ain't for me. Okay. I got a sister who's a cook. Right. So she's, like, always buying this and that and trying to cook up this and that. she's too

44:39Jessie Ware: it's too picky for me you know just make the damn food and let's eat it she's like gotta cut it with this knife you gotta use this cut it like this so what's in the fridge that I like I like yogurt seaweed love seaweed but that's okay so we got yogurt and seaweed on the this isn't right

45:03Lennie Ware: come on then oh cool cool I do love Japanese food

45:07Jessie Ware: No wonder you're slim. You don't eat. I don't eat much. Japanese, yeah. Oh, I know. Yeah, they're so freaking good. They're white. Oh, Japanese sweet potato. Yes. And it's so sweet. They're delicious. Oh, my God. I have it in LA. Yeah. Japanese sweet potato. That's right. The best thing I've ever eaten. Yes. It was gorgeous. I have the Japanese potato and I have mashed mac and cheese. But my favorite salad is Caesar. I love Caesar, yeah. Oh, girl. A good one Yeah Where's your best season? I eat avocado a day I eat one avocado a day Okay It's great for the tummy Maybe it's good for the skin as well It's good for everything Are you having like salt and pepper on that And lemon or just I put some lemon on it Or I put like a salad dressing Sometimes a little bit Delicious Delicious

45:55Lennie Ware: We've got to talk more about the album Working with Sia Obviously you speak so highly of her But I am so intrigued by how Were you writing together in the same room Or did she do the thing where she Because I've heard about She'd bring me the stuff She'd be done Right okay And if I wanted to change something I would change it Right And often I did But often I didn't Because she is a great writer I mean it takes her like two goes She listens to the backing track And she just goes

46:22Jessie Ware: But she's also got a great voice

46:24Lennie Ware: I mean She's beautiful She's got everything She's got it You know I couldn't believe her I said Where'd you learn To write lyrics for me And make me feel it She says Well I've been listening to you Since I was born Oh okay I said okay I rest my case She's on the record You've got a duet It's the last song Yeah we're doing Yes we're doing some stuff And we're singing We're singing backgrounds together Yeah I can hear her In the backgrounds as well Do you feel very supported by it Sia? It feels like you've had A really good experience on that Absolutely Yeah I did that album Lickety Split Wow

47:00Jessie Ware: Where did you record it? In Los Angeles In Los Angeles Which studio? It was a studio for the guys. I didn't know Greg. Greg Kirsten. Yeah, Greg Kirsten was an amazing producer. He has a studio there. And we were just working in. Where's the famous one? There's a few. It's right up the street. The one that Jimmy Hendrix. The one that Jimmy Hendrix.

47:17Lennie Ware: Record Plant, Sunset. Jim Henson. Jim Henson. That's where I usually record. Is that where like MJ did all his stuff? Like Michael did all his stuff. He might have done a lot of work there. Did you know Michael Jackson as well? I met him once. Okay. And I couldn't hear him. Oh. He came to me. I was like, how are you doing it? And he said something. I said, what did you say? I can't hear you. Because he spoke so softly. But did he not repeat it? No. Oh. I didn't want him to. I was like, done. I said, you know what? I can't. I don't have time. You're too quiet. I'm done with you. Wonderful artist.

47:51Great artist. But I ain't got time for drama. Okay, yeah, fair enough. Okay, yeah, fair enough. The extra drama. Who are you listening to at the moment?

47:59Jessie Ware: I don't listen to music. I don't listen to music. I don't listen to music much. I do sometimes, but I have to be in a space where I can. I'm so busy doing other stuff. I'm busy trying to catch up on sleep and keeping everything organized and right. In a farm, there's always something to do. Do you watch telly? Yeah. Oh, like, oh, girl. Okay, so that's my man. That's my husband right there. In bed at night. Oh, yeah, all night. Oh, yes. I'm a telly baby. else raised sort of a telemaking. So what are you watching at the moment? Well, you know what I love here is Chase the Chase.

48:40Lennie Ware: The quiz show. Oh, the quiz show. I love it. I love stuff like that where I can

48:47Jessie Ware: like, you know, I love to learn. That's amazing. You see, I love Tipping Point. Oh, maybe get a chapter into that. Are they similar? It's just similar, but you get coins that come down. Oh, I love that too. The thing that comes off the thing, they slide down the air. Yeah, right. It's like being on the pier. Love it. Maybe you should live together. I know. I watch it when I do my exercise bike. I love it. I do love that. So you like quiz shows?

49:12Lennie Ware: Oh, love it.

49:12Jessie Ware: Yeah.

49:12Lennie Ware: I love to learn. Can we talk about your new musical that's starting very soon? Yes. Hackney Empire. Right. I'm Every Woman. Yes. Starring Alexandra Burke. It's unbelievable. These young people, I was in tears. Brought me to tears. Is it hard to watch your life being replayed? No, I'd rather enjoy it. Okay.

49:36Jessie Ware: I think I would, too. I was a wild rougher, wasn't I? I'm reminded, you know, that, yeah, I had a life. I had a big, big life. I still have a big life, and it's okay. But these kids are really beautiful. They're so talented, and they're so committed. They love it. We just had the best time. For a couple of days, I was there.

50:01Lennie Ware: There is so much love for you. You've filled so... I'm so... Yeah, I'm blessed. I'm really blessed. But you've given it... You've been generous with your talent. Yeah, I love. I give a lot of love. I get a lot of love back. There's nothing more beautiful than that. Shaka Khan, before we let you go, can you give us a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere, happy or sad? A nostalgic taste or scent? Oh, dear, what is it? What would it be? Well, sandalwood is very close to my everything. Yeah? I make sprays, too. I buy lots of oils. Yeah. And I put them in a spray bottle of warm water, shake them up.

50:46I spray them in hotel rooms. I spray them on my bed. I spray them on the curtains. I spray them on the rug. So sandalwood it would be. Sandalwood is one of the base fragrances. and then what's it? A patchouli. Hippie. You're a hippie. Yes, I am. It's the same thing. Patchouli is hippie. That's right. All my hippie fragrances come back and I spray them and everyone loves them. You can do that on the road. Just take yourself spray bottles and get your favorite oils. I love an essential oil. And wipe it in there to spray.

51:15Lennie Ware: You are welcome. Anytime you want to come on and we'll just talk about all the other memories too because you have... Well, the very next time I come, I'd love to come visit. You are. I'd love you too. If you ever come, we might end up the day. Don't ask, we'll come. We will. We will. We'll be riding that donkey. Please do. You've got to come. I would love to. You'd love it. I would. Have a good time. Thank you for being here. You are amazing. Have a good time.

51:37Jessie Ware: Have a good time. Have a good time. You've met your...

51:53Lennie Ware: You met your match. I met my match. And I met my idol.

51:57Jessie Ware: They say don't meet your idols, but she was astonishing.

52:01Lennie Ware: That was a stunning hour and 45 minutes of my life.

52:05Jessie Ware: But she probably would have preferred to have been at home watching The Chase.

52:09Lennie Ware: I'm obsessed with that takeaway from this. Next time, Shaka, you just come over. We'll have a telly dinner. We'll have some scones.

52:18Jessie Ware: Yeah, picky things.

52:19Lennie Ware: Picky tea.

52:20Jessie Ware: Yeah.

52:22Lennie Ware: She was so fantastic.

52:24Jessie Ware: She was warm. She loved you. I don't know what... She gets on high-fiving you. Yeah, because I'm reminded of her mother, and I'm only a year older than her.

52:33Lennie Ware: That is her favourite person in the world.

52:34Jessie Ware: Okay, but I am only a year older than her, and she said, you look quite good for your age. I thought, well, she thinks I'm the same age as her.

52:42Lennie Ware: Stop. You and Shaka are both, like, giving glow to the 70-year-old skin.

52:48Jessie Ware: She had no wrinkles and no bags.

52:52Lennie Ware: I didn't even scratch the surface on asking her about where all those incredible Rufus outfits are. Has she still got them? I didn't even ask her about her jazz standards record. I didn't even ask her. Being on Broadway, we'll have to do part two.

53:07Jessie Ware: Yeah, we will. Let's go to Georgia. Yeah. Ride that horse. Are you riding now, Jessie?

53:14Lennie Ware: I'm only riding cowboys, Mum. Thank you. I love Shaka Khan And I love that this podcast exists That we get to buy her over For a scone and clotted cream Shaka Khan you absolute legend You are I know she doesn't like to be called a diva Because she thinks it's negative But you are the best kind You are amazing

53:35Jessie Ware: And I can't wait to go to Hackney Empire To see her show

53:39Lennie Ware: I'm every woman Alexandra Burke's in it You know the vocals are going to be tip top Let's go Yeah, I think it's only doing a small run. Oh, dear. And then hopefully it will come back. Maybe it'll go to the West End, Jess. Just think about the sing-along for that. Yeah. Oh, God. Thank you so much to Shaka Khan for coming on. You know, just helping kids in the morning. Yeah. And coming and... Getting them to sing the chorus of her song. I'm just obsessed with her. Shaxzilla's going to be out in autumn. She sounds fantastic on it. And if you love Sia, it's like Sia and Shaka combined, there's some like killer anthemic notes on there

54:19Jessie Ware: Jessie if you become her godchild what colour scheme you could have? Is she going to wear green again? I don't know I think you better have a different colour scheme darling pink

54:31Lennie Ware: thank you for watching and listening and we'll see you next week

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55:49Take the Just Thrive probiotic challenge today. Visit justthrivehealth.com slash podcast. Take control today with Just Thrive. The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports. Right now, the NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real-time scores, breaking news, and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.