Cyndi Lauper

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1:36Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with Lenny and we've accidentally kind of coordinated again. Darling, do you think you're sending me messages? Maybe, Mum. So we are actually not in either of our abodes today. We are in our friend's flat. Lovely Andy Barker. Thank you, Andy Barker. Because we have a very special guest today. We didn't want her to travel south. And we are very excited. We have Cindy Lauper on the podcast today. I watched her documentary that came out last year called Let the Canary Sing. And she's trailblazer, icon, fire starter, a civil rights campaigner.

2:17She looks fantastic. I'm interested to see what colour hair she comes in today. She was kind of the birth of MTV as well, the music videos. And her and Madonna came out at the same time. And famously, they were kind of pitted against each other. True Colours was sung at your daughter's carol service. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Big queer anthem about her really good friend Gregory, who she lived with, that I found out in the Let the Canary Sing documentary, that you should all go and watch. It's absolutely brilliant. And we've got her on. And we're going to talk about life in New York. And still touring. Still touring, yeah.

2:51That's why, I mean, she's coming on to talk about, it's the farewell tour, which I don't feel like feels very fair. Why is it a farewell? when I feel like she'll never stop working, Cindy Lauper. No, of course she won't. She's done kind of every different genre of music. She goes from blues, she'll invent a type of pop sound. I mean, girls just want to have fun and that little hiccup that she does there. I don't know, she's amazing. She's playing at the O2 next week and you won't be able to go because you'll be gone. I know, I'll be in Los Angeles, so annoying. Darling, should we talk about this week?

3:25Yes. A little bit. Okay. It's been a momentous week. Why? What happened? Well, we went to see Bridget Jones. Oh, yeah. The premiere. And your song's in it. Yeah. And I was so proud. Thanks, Mum. You wept in the premiere. It was really embarrassing. It was a very... It was the best moment of the whole film. We were all thrilled for Bridget. It was after she shagged Leo Woodall. Jessie, you can't say that. I think everyone knows that. He's on the front of the poster. Can you not say shagged? Okay. It was after she... She spent the night. Okay. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. and pearls comes in and it was really fun and it was just really exciting to be there yeah so what have you made mom well it's been meals on wheels today so i've brought the food from home and i made it last night after my new fridge has been installed that is for another podcast mom well it will be for another podcast because my refrigeration problems have been very trying I have made something that Cindy apparently loves, borscht Fingers crossed Now I'm not an expert borscht maker but it tastes quite nice I did a combination of a Ukrainian recipe and the Hairy Bikers So I amalgamated them to my taste really I don't know if she eats dessert but I've made a fig and almond tart Yum, a frangipan It's kind of frangipanny but can I just tell you the scent of the figs when they were cooking was great.

4:49Yum. And it looks lovely. It looks pro to me. I've done absolutely nothing and I'm sorry. That's fine. Thank you, I appreciate it. That's fine. Cindy Lauper coming up on table manners.

5:07Cindy Lauper, you have just walked in. You are a vision. Mum wants to steal the clothes off your back. Everything, from the coat. the blouse but you know nikki i know nikki let's talk about nikki nikki helped me in the summer a nice italian girl nice italian you love working with nice italian girls i'm italian i know new york and new york italians i mean that's how i i i we share a makeup artist sometimes called jen lombardo who is friends with nikki and they're all this wonderful new yorker italian connection let's talk about that at the dinner but i do have a wonderful colombian girl oh yeah and what does your colombian well she's american okay but her descent is uh nathra she's oh nathra here she's awesome yeah yeah yeah she's a beautiful woman of course she wouldn't she'd be embarrassed that i say well you look you look gorgeous gorgeous she can paint that one can paint she's a great and steady and calm like Buddha you know always like I call her my Buddha girl because no matter what she's always calm I love that are you always calm Cindy oh hell no can we go back to the beginning Cindy so this podcast we talk a lot about like food and family and food memories so I want to I want Cindy Lauper to paint a picture of who was around your dinner table when you were a child and what you were eating what was a very common lauper dinner well my parents split up when I was young and my mother uh we were raised by a Sicilian family that came over from Palermo and um my grandparents lived upstairs and my aunt lived next door which is perfect for them because that's how my grandfather kind of wanted everybody together, which it's nice unless they got other dreams and they're not allowed to have them, you know.

7:06So I learned that quick. My mother though, she was fantastic. And I was a sous chef because if you were a girl, you know, what did they tell us? They said, well, you got to learn how to cook and clean because you're going to do it for the rest of your life. And I thought to myself, hell not for you maybe, you know. But no, but you know, my mom, she knew about the practicality of it. You could take care of yourself. And that's all I wanted. I wanted to learn how to take care of myself. And I learned all the sous chef stuff. Did you enjoy cooking? Well, yeah, I enjoyed doing anything they were going to teach me.

7:45I was very curious. It was tough for my mom. She was like a saint i had this one thing yeah that i think i liked to fly so you like to fly yeah she was telling me that when i was an infant i was rocking so hard in the carriage i flung myself through the window the little french door window so she had a heart attack i was okay oh my god you catapulted out of your pram yeah wow of course you did she's cindy law i wanted a she had this um because you know the kitchen you wind up in the kitchen yeah so there was a little metal cabinet and in there was all the spices and the hair the the food coloring and i say hair because once i saw the food coloring you know especially because saint paddy's day and you know everybody used to dress up for St.

8:39Paddy's Day, you wear green. Even the Italians dressed up for St. Paddy's Day? My cousin Vinny, they were Irish and Italian. So they were Irish. So I just figured, you know, they were like my brother and sister. So, you know, I had a green dress. It was the time, remember, in the 60s when purple and green matched really well. Absolutely gorgeous, yeah. Great purple and olive green. All the Bieber colours. Do you remember Bieber? Oh, yeah. What are you kidding? Yes, I did. Aubergine, purple, dark green. Did Wimbledon. See how fancy that is, aubergine. First, it was purple, great purple. Yeah, aubergine it was.

9:18So you were wearing a lot of purple and green. Well, you know, green. And I'm wondering where that food coloring went, Cindy. Well, you see, first I was just on the cabinet because it had these metal doors with little things on the bottom you could put your feet on. Right. and if you hold the handles. And I got into this thing where you could flap, and it felt like you were flying, but you had to get off in time before the thing fell. And a couple of times, you know, she was always digging me out, but I always thought I could jump off in time. You know, she was so good. She was so patient. God bless her.

9:54Yeah, and then I saw the food color. Yeah. And then I, you know, it was St. Paddy's Day, and I was wearing green. Yeah. But I didn't put the lemon in my hair. Because you're supposed to put lemon in your hair, sit in the sun. Are you blonde then? I was a little blonde. A little blonde. But not, you know, you've got to kind of put the lemon in your hair. To lift the color. So what happens? So that when you put the green in, it stays. Well, it's just like it shined a little green. How old were you? Nine. So she was, but, you know, God bless her. She was so patient. But, you know, she would cook on Sundays.

10:32You know, you start the sauce. You know, they have their rules. You know, with meat, it's garlic and onion and bay leaf and basil. But you have to be careful with the spices, but only if you're using meat. But if you're not having meat, it's just either onion or garlic, but not together. Right. And I don't know. It's like you never put cheese on fish, which as I grew older, I realized, why would you put cheese on fish? That should be a ticket. Don't do it. Except I like cheese on linguine al mare, you know, seafood pasta. I do like cheese on it. No, Cindy's like, no. You wouldn't do it. No, I wouldn't.

11:19No. You wouldn't do it. I used to make a really good one. And, you know, you learn from different people what, you know, their family thing. Like when I was by Lenny Pizzi, they used to make a sauce where it was seafood, but then they'd put a little tuna fish to fill it. Yeah. And it did. It was really interesting and tasty. But, you know, you always want to make your marinara. You don't put onions in if you're using the seafood. and then I would have all the, you know, like you have to have snails, the periwinkles, but I started to see like the little periwinkles trying to get out of the shell and then I felt like, okay.

12:04But they're alive then. Yeah, you have to have them alive otherwise, you know. You'll get about to make. But if you put them in the refrigerator, they fall asleep. Oh, my God. And die like that, which is better. Probably better for them than boiled. But, you know, but honestly, after I saw all that, I felt really bad. Do not eat seafood. Of course I do, but I try and keep it down to a bare minimum, the animal thing. I tried to be vegan. How did that go? You know, I took one thing where they were just delivering food, and every day, spinach, every meal, spinach. I wound up having kidney stones, and it killed me.

12:44Oh, did you get kidney stones from spinach? Yes, it has a chemical in it. If you eat too much of this kind of thing and you're prone to that, you can develop kidney stones. You know, everything in moderation is good. And apparently not with that food company. So I stopped that, but like I tried to eat on the road like that. But they would put these herbs and vegetables, like, you know, just flat out. What's wrong? what you got cauliflower, what you got to ruin it for? Just freaking wash it, cut it, put a little olive oil on it, some salt, put it in the broiler, don't burn it. Do you have a chef when you're on tour?

13:26No, how am I going to do that? It's bad enough I got all this, I got 60 people. Now I'm going to carry a chef too. And I'm already taking... That would be the important thing for me, I think. Well... You deserve a chef. I'm also like taking like leadership courses so that I could be a good leader. To manage all the people. Well, what am I going to do? You know, you can't have the manager saying, she said, what, oh, what? You know, so I had to. I think you're doing pretty well. I mean, what, how many? You learn a lot. You are. I watched the documentary, and I loved it, by the way. Oh, was it Alison?

14:01That was Alison. Alison did that. It was beautiful. But you, I mean, it's your story, Cindy. Well, who else is it going to be? The documentary was on me, so. I loved it. Was it called The Canary Sing? Let the Canary Sing. Let the Canary Sing. Oh, that was in the documentary. I thought you watched it. I haven't seen it yet. I'm so sorry, darling. It was a lawsuit. I was in a lawsuit. The manager I had, we were in Blue Angel. I noticed he didn't know what the hell he was doing. And we weren't going anywhere. Who made you bankrupt? So I decided to have, like, I went to him and I said, Listen, we're not going anywhere.

14:39How about you let go, we buy you out, we get a deal, you get a piece of it, and we can continue and be successful. But no. So we had to go and do a lawsuit. So we went to court. And then finally, at the end of the whole thing, I mean, it was just a stupid thing. I don't know why he didn't want to just make some money because you don't make money for nothing. He was just determined that I was never going to sing again. That was unfortunate for him to think about. It's unfortunate for anyone to think about. They're going to be the gatekeeper for me because any gatekeeper, I'm sorry, it ain't going to work.

15:29I'm going to look behind your shoulder and I'm going to go, for you maybe but not for me and that's what I learned my whole life because you know I went to Catholic school I was yeah at the convent of the sisters of no mercy at all yeah that was my school I wanted to talk about that because that was quite a difficult time in your life I mean you talk so fondly about your mom and you know she's featured in your music videos and and you know um you and And your sister, I don't think your little brother was there. Yeah, he was. He went to? No, he didn't go to the school. He would be separated. So you and your sister went to the school?

16:06Convent, yeah. And what age were you when you went there? The convent, well, you see, it was all my fault that we got thrown out of the gates of hell. It was really gates of heaven, but it kind of felt like the gates of hell. Because, you know, look, I always loved fashion, and I know I was a weird kid anyway. and there was this priest walking back and forth. And you know how in third grade sometimes it's under the church? So the rectory was right there and he kept walking back and forth. The thing is, it was a fashion thing. He had black pants, but he also had a pleated skirt over the pants. And big beads, right?

16:48This is the priest. Well, yeah, the priest. They were dressed up. Listen, remember the high masses? The guy would come in with a pointy hat and a purse so fierce it was on fire. Right? It was like, how could you not like that? Yeah, yeah. So, except for the fact when I wanted to be called Stefan, he smacked me in the face and said, Stephanie. And I said, it says Stefan. He said, move along. Why did you want to be called Stefan? For Saint Stefan. Oh, sorry, I'm a Jew. I don't know. What does Saint Stefan do? What's he do? What's he saint of? I don't know. I liked the name. The name's great. Yeah, right.

17:29I agree. Why can't you have a unisex name? But you know how it was in the 60s or 70s. It was hard for them. Plus, they hated the folk mass. And of course, I was there playing guitar in the folk mass, and they hated us. Did you sing at church? Were you in the choir? Yeah, I was in the choir. Yeah, well, at eight, I was too young to be in the choir. But I talked to my girlfriend, Rosemary, who lived around the corner, Rosemary La Conte. Good Italian girl. And I talked her into sitting in the church with me because I knew God was there, except I couldn't understand why God was living behind this gold door, like a small gold door.

18:10And I'm thinking, you know, he can afford something bigger than that, even if the door is nice. Come on. But I figured always omnipresent, whatever the hell that means, because every time you ask a question, they said, oh, it's a mystery. I said, what does that mean? Just be quiet. Don't ask questions. Do you believe in God?

18:34I don't believe half the crap that people tell you. I don't believe in gatekeepers. I think it's amazing that they have these organizations where they stand between you and your maker, if that's what it is. And at a very young age, I was very, very fortunate to see firsthand what people said and their behavior and how different it was. Because I took everything very seriously. When I was getting married to Jesus, I was really excited. I mean, I was seven. That's confirmation, is that? No, that's First Holy Communion. and you know you get the little seven okay and you know you get the little do you wear like a bride yeah i had a little dress with white and this is a big thing for your family yeah yeah and a big party well i was gonna get married to jesus it was big i was getting married but then when i was a flower girl for some for my godmother i thought i was getting married then too and i thought the the the pillow boy was such a drag he didn't even want to dance and i thought oh my god I'm getting married to him.

19:50Well, oh, well, the dress is nice, you know. I didn't know. So I took everything serious. So when I was doing all that, I just, you know, you buy into all that. You have a guardian angel. I used to talk to him all the time. I used to wait, you know, I was waiting for the Holy Spirit to come. So I'd squint my eyes and see if the statues were going to move or the candle was going to turn into something ominous. You know, never did. You know, that's why when I saw Like a Prayer, the Madonna video, I was like, yes, I loved her. After that, I just loved her. She insulted everyone. All together, it was awesome.

20:35But the reason I say this is, remember I told you about the priest? Yeah. Well, I used to go running after him to walk with him back and forth and back and forth. And he always called me Sylvia. No matter how many times I said my name was Cynthia, he called me Sylvia. So I figured, okay, Sylvia. So, you know, I kind of became friends with him. And then at Confession, you have to go to Confession, and I saw his name, and I said, well, I'll go to him, and it'll go quick, right? Because they figure, they give you the act of contrition, a couple of Hail Marys, the old father, you're out, right? So I go in.

21:15I didn't go to mass. And he starts telling me I'm going to go to hell like my mother. So I said, I'm eight, mind you. I didn't tell him he was going to hell for saying that to an eight-year-old. Why would your mom go to hell? I didn't, because she was divorced. She divorced when we were five. He says that to me, and I said to him, You don't know my mother. She's not going to hell. She's a good woman. She works really hard, and she loves her kids. My mother is not going to hell. And all of a sudden, I think that asshole remembered my name because the monsignor called my mother at home and told her that he thinks that we've got to leave the school because the way she lives and what they preach are two different things.

22:05I'm so sorry. And that's the kindness. See, once you see through the veil, it's bullshit, right? Yeah. And then when you go to the convent school and you think, well, first you think because they've got to get you up at 530 to do all this shit and get to mass and get to school, and then you're thinking, wow, God's an early rise. song you know because you gotta get it all done it's food associated with catholicism so lots of religions food plays a big part in it well fridays it's always fish yeah and then christmas eve you don't eat meat you don't eat it's the seven fishes the seven fishes which did you watch the bear no okay well they did a jamie lee curtis plays a an italian mother and there's this whole incredible episode called the seven fish fish yes and it's it that's how i learned about it through the bear i wanted to i wanted to ask you um they didn't do seven fishes though who didn't not my family my mother would make for tartars your mom she always did it great what was she taught us well fried potatoes and you put that in it's kind of spanish yeah it's a funny thing how sicilian and Spanish food.

23:23I don't know, kind of like similar. Because we were in Majorca, and we stopped in a cafe, and it was like the frittata my mother used to make us on Christmas Eve because you can't eat. Frittata, I love frittata. You can't eat meat. Sometimes she'd put stream beans in there. She was big on a health thing. Sometimes she would say she'd make liver like it was veal cutlets and say, veal cutlers. I was like, ma, that ain't veal. She was like, it's good for you. So, you know, it was like, and poor Ellen. It was hard for her to get through. Sometimes we had to sit and eat the whole thing. So she was like, Ellen would be making stream beans and potatoes in the sandwich.

24:09It was like hard to look at. I was like, ooh. Can we talk about Ellen? Because Ellen features, well, your brother and your sister feature in the documentary. and your sister's gay and I wonder whether that was difficult. Also, you felt quite protective. You have such a strong bond. I mean, she kind of, she took you in, I think, when you were expelled from school when you were 17. Didn't you go, you went and go and stayed with her and it was Carl and Gregory and like she... No, no, that was later. Oh, was that later? But when I first left, yeah, she called me and I told her what was happening. She said, just, you know, stuff a few things in a place bag and get your ass here.

24:48It's not safe. Was that to do with your stepfather? Yeah. Yeah. But Ellen, you sound like you had loads of fun together. Well, my mother, you know, I was an intense kid. My mother told me I was born to be her friend. So as we were growing up, if Ellen had friends, I always had a fit if she didn't play with me, because that's why I was born. Okay. I came here to be your friend. And now you're playing with her. Okay. so I know I know my poor mother she was very patient my sister too but she tried to ditch me and then when when she was coming out or dealing with her own sexuality which was very hard for her and was that quite early on Ellen always wanted to be Peter Pan or you know or Annie Oakley or Ellen wanted cap guns.

25:40Ellen wanted to play drums. She was terrific. She used to play the garbage pails, and she had such great rhythm. What did she do as a job? Now? Well, she tried a lot of things. I always thought she was going to be a musician like me and be with me. But she did a lot. She worked on the railroad, doing the ties. She worked as a ship's plumber, and she's little. And then she became a carpenter. And then she wanted to be a healer. So she became an acupuncturist. And I thought to myself, well, that makes sense. I want to be a carpenter. That's nails. This is nails. Just a whole different kind. But, yeah.

26:30So she... Where does she live? She lives in Los Angeles. Well, in Long Beach. Where do you live? New York. New York. Yeah, well, you know, my sister tried to get away, you know, because she wanted just to have her own life. And it's very hard for people when they come out because, you know, you're accepted and you're raised in this kind of Catholic thing. And anything outside the norm is, you're taught to feel dirty, perverse. And I just looked at my sister like she was always my sister. And, you know, even if she tried to ditch me, I was always going to be there. And I felt like it doesn't matter how hard you try, Ellen, I'm your sister.

27:28I was born to be a friend and I'm here. And even when she was coming out and she had like, she would have, you know, she would bring her friends who were angry. And, you know, and I remember. Was this in the, what time of year? Was this late 70s? Late 70s, right. And they would be like, you know, I remember one birthday party. I wanted a birthday party and she had her friends and they were just looking at me. And I was famous at that time. And everybody, you know, look, everybody judges everybody. So if you're the sister of somebody famous, they just think you're rich and you should live this way.

28:06Or, you know, oh, they're very straight or, you know, whatever they think. It was this post girls just want to have fun then. OK. Would you like to eat something? I've taken you at your word. Yeah. And I've made borscht. Get out. Really? Would you like that? Of course. Yes. You don't have to eat some of that. You can have a little bit. Do you want a little bit? Yeah, just a little. Yeah, yeah. What else did you make? Are you cooking? Right, so there's bread with borscht with some bread and butter. All right. And then I've made a tart, a fig and almond tart for afterwards. Wow. Come on. Okay, so let me just, whilst my mum goes and gets the borscht, can I ask some of your favourite spots in New York that you go and eat when you come back from tour?

28:51Sure. Or there is, it depends what you're in the mood for. Okay, give me a couple, three. Okay, there's a new place that opened, 219. It's in the 50s, 60s. It's a French beef stro. Yeah. Orson Welles used to go there. David would know the name, not me. What's your order when you go there? Oh, at that place? Yeah. You know, fish. Yeah. They make it. Well, it's French foods, you know, so they'll have like a trout with, you know. Thank you, Mama. Look at that. Thank you so much. So you'll have a bit of trout or will there be a dover sole there? Yeah, it depends. You know, if you go hell in a handbasket, you're going to get the frites and whatever.

29:37Yeah, yeah. And then there's also this Indian place that used to be where Lucky Chance was on First Avenue near Houston Street. It's right near Lucienne. I love Lucienne. Now, that's a great place. It's right on First Avenue off Houston. And that's a bistro, but it's really fun. It's a really fun place. I'll go there. And Italian food, well, there's Frankie's in Brooklyn. That's 457 Court Street. That's pretty good. Oh, wow, that's so nice. And the sour cream. Oh, wow. What got you into borscht, Cindy? Well, my friend Yuda, who does my hair, you know, with a couple of girls. But Yuda, I don't know, she likes it.

30:28Yeah. And so we'd be on the road, and I looked up different recipes. Yeah. And I started to make borscht for her. On the road? Yeah, vegetarian. Yeah, because I had a new bullet. You know the veggie bullet? And it's not really hard to make. Oh, thank you so much. It's not that hard to make. So you cook for your crew when you're on tour? No. Just me and her, we used to do that. I don't do that anymore. Because I'm busy. Because the tour is a bigger one. Yeah. And it's demanding. Yeah. And still, I didn't get past the PT. I've been doing PT every morning, but I got to do PT. Past the training. It's physical therapy.

31:15Okay. Which means all the little muscles really slow. Yeah, okay. Then after you're done with that, it's supposed to move on to weights. Right. Then after the weights, you want to do some yoga. Do you want some yoga? Wow. Sure. and then you got to do your voice and incorporate the voice into the yeah sure butter is always good what's the expression ma 'am everything's better with butter I love that especially with your voice so wow your whole day before a show you're doing physical therapy you're doing weights you're doing yoga then you do how long is your vocal well for me When I was younger, it was different.

32:02But, you know, sometimes I take lessons if I can. Because I have lessons in the week. Yeah, me too. Which is really, honestly, just physical therapy for vocals. Because they listen to what's happening. Here's the exercise to fix that. Okay, thank you. But it's not just warm up. Because as you get older and your voice expands, there's more parts of your voice to warm up right it's not just one part well i mean i definitely warm up for longer now than i did and i guess that's just going to carry on yeah getting longer well for me my voice doesn't really get going till an hour and a half cindy i'm not a boarded this is really nice mom you like it yeah i like it it smells great i think it's healthy oh this It's really great.

32:56Do you like it? Yeah. So how'd you do it? Did you put cabbage in it? Yeah. So cabbage, and did you do onions with the cabbage? Right, so I combined two recipes, a Ukrainian one and just a British one. But I have made the David Tannis recipe, which is a New York Times one. I don't know, but go ahead. It's got beetroot, onion, carrot, and potato. and then I put cabbage in at the end. Oh, wow. Am I doing it right? No. I don't know. It's great. There isn't any right, is there? There's no right and wrong. Well, normally it has beef in it. Oh, I don't do beef either. Well, that's what I thought. Yes, we didn't do the beef shin in there.

33:40Well, I say we, I did nothing. It's really good.

34:05We'll be right back.

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34:52A Mochi moment from Sadie, who writes, I'm not crying, you're crying. This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi, because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP-1. He understood, and I felt supported, not judged. I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy. Thanks, Sadie. I'm Myra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com. Sadie is a mochi member compensated for her story.

35:27I want to, so just enjoy your food and eat, but we will be asking you your last supper. Oh, come on. No, you're just going to a desert island. You're not dying. Oh, here with the desert island again. Oh, fuck, you did desert island this, didn't you? Come on, I ain't going to no desert island. First of all, I'm allergic to the sun. I'm allergic to the cold. I'm not going to sit in the sun. I'm going to get wrinkles. I ain't going to do it. You're taking this far too literally, Cindy. Okay. Okay, be imaginative. All right, you're going to... No imagination. You're going to bloody California, where for a very long time, and you're not going to be able to eat your...

36:04I don't know, you're not going to have your comforts, and you're not going to have your favourite meal. So your last supper, starter, main, drink of choice, and dessert. Well, at first, if I was in California, and it was close to the Mexican border. Yeah. You'd go. I'd be looking for those Mexican chefs. That make the great Baja food, right? Mm-hmm. And I let them do it. And I'd go, wow, that's really good. the fish taco is probably really great. What's your favorite pasta? Well, on Christmas, I talked David into it. Like Christmas Eve, we went out to eat. But Christmas Day, we made, I taught him how to make sauce.

36:54Like your mom's? Well, no, because she made everything with meat. I showed him how to make, like, just a light sauce, kind of sweet. and we went and got St. Ann's raviolis, which you have to go to Bensonhurst to get. They don't sell them. Bensonhurst, Brooklyn. Okay. And it's a weird place because sometimes they have very rude and angry salespeople, so you just got to keep your head low, get the raviolis and get the hell out, you know. So he, you know, my Favi, Fabiola, who takes care of us. She's our housekeeper. And she got the raviolis for us. So we made raviolis with kind of a sweet sauce, you know, because I think that's nice with raviolis.

37:49And I like sheep cheese, not cow cheese sometimes. So we made the sauce, which was easy. I just tried to show them. You know, you put the garlic in. You brown the garlic, you do not burn the garlic. You put the basil in, you know, but take it off the flank. Then, you know, I don't blanch the tomatoes because you can't buy tomatoes anymore that taste like tomatoes. So you get the same more, whatever it is, mozilla, whatever, tomatoes. and you get the mill and you put the can of tomatoes in and you use the mill so that you don't get any seeds, right? So it goes in there. Now, sometimes you could get a little tomato paste, put it in, mix it.

38:43So you mix it together. I usually put it up, let it boil, then put it way down to, like, really low. And my family is always like a teaspoon of salt, a tablespoon of sugar, but I always do little at a time. So a quarter teaspoon of salt, half a teaspoon of sugar. Taste it. Smell it. Then let it cook. Smell it again. Taste it again. A little more salt, a little more sugar. taste it, smell it, see where it lives. Then cover it and let it cook for like at least an hour or so. Then you put your water up, wait for it to boil. You put the salt in the water so it boils. You always want to use the salt in the water so that it's like, it reminds you of the sea.

39:43So it tastes like the sea, right? So you let it boil, then you take it out, and then you mix the sauce first on the bottom a little. Then you put the raviolis on top, put a little more sauce on top. Then I plated it for them and I scraped it. I taught them how to do the artichokes, not the fattening ones. We just did artichokes in the water. You cut them, you open them, you chop up the garlic, you put the garlic in there, you chop up the parsley, Italian parsley, You put that in there, you put garlic in the water with the olive oil a little bit, and you let it cook a little slow. But that's got to go on early because that takes forever to cook.

40:28Do you do a dip? Well, if you put the garlic in there, then you take the garlic out, and you squeeze it into a bowl with a little olive oil and smash it and a tiny bit of salt, and that becomes the dip. Gorgeous. You know, it's simple. simple food is always better and harder because everybody gets to get complicated do you have a sweet tooth horrible oh really yeah what's your go-to like sweet of choice that you'd have i have to always stop myself it doesn't matter it's sugar um no but um the narrow's it's on 11th street in manhattan between first and a and it's the old old Italian bakery. My favorite is the chocolate hazelnut cookies because it's egg white really with hazelnut.

41:25And the pinoli cookies. I used to make them a little. Pinoli? Pine nuts. With the almond paste. So you can make it with the food processor. And then I tried to use the coconut sugar so it wasn't so bad. Did it taste as good? Yeah, it doesn't matter. Sugar is sugar. But, you know, for me, anyway. But, yeah, I think that the pinoli cookies are, you know, but that's how we grew up. You know, when people come over, you know, especially Christmas Day, they brought the rumbabka, the cannolis, the trichlorate cookies, the little honey balls, they're called something else. But, you know, there was so much.

42:16And, you know, the poor things, they would always be like, May, May, I got a hundred, I got a hundred. Oh, get a promo salsa, okay, you know. It was like, it was so funny. They were very funny. But, you know, they would make the fatted calf. You know, they'd be like, you'd start out with salad or soup. and then she put the lasagna on the table. See, everybody eats the lasagna. Then after lasagna, then came the meal and you'd be like, are you kidding? Then it was like lamb or turkey or it was always a meat thing. And then after that, they put out some cheese and nuts and then here comes the dessert and it's like, oh my God.

43:06And then my grandmother would always make her little coffee in that little cup. Oh, the little gagea, yeah. Yeah, and it would boil. And for us, she'd put a little anisette, touch anisette in. In your espresso? What's an anisette? Aniseed. Oh, aniseed. Oh, I'm not sure. Was it nice? Yeah. Oh. You know, whatever. You know, they had their coffee when we were little. She put that in our water. Oh, okay. Like a drop and it would be all cloudy and you'd feel like a big groan. Wow, I guess I need that fork. Yeah. I hope it looks good. Looks gorgeous. Looks good, doesn't it? Did you paint this? Yeah.

43:53I made it last night. It's a good chef. No, I'm not. But it looks quite good. Just tell me how big a piece you want. Small, please. Yeah, I know. A sliver. I have a girdle on, so it's not going to fucking work for me. Do you want some cream? Yeah, I do. Now, that's good, so. What's it taste like? Well, obviously fig. Can you taste the fig? Yes, right on top. Oh, shush. But you never know if they're going to be good enough figs, do you? Oh. Did you make that pastry? Yeah. Mum! It's really good, the pastry. It's very good. So how'd you do that? Just with butter and flour. Really? Yeah. Awesome. It's quite crisp, isn't it?

44:45Yeah, it's crunchy. It's crunchy. Paul Hollywood would give you a handshake for that. Can you taste the orange? Yes. It's so good. This is good, Mum. It's really good. Well, good because you take the rest home. Cindy, please take some for later. Do you think your group... Nikki would like some? I brought some cartons in case you want to take some soup home. Sure. Just in case. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah, you know. What about Lapa? Did she... Boy, she ate. She even took some home, boy. No, that's how we like it. Cindy, can you give me a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere? Oh, God.

45:28But they don't make cannolis like they used to when I was little. When my mother passed away in 2022, we went to Positano for the first time. And they had a cook there. And I was really kind of a little beat up. And my husband, and I also got this stress thing on my face. Bell's palsy? No, no, no, no, no. Just breakout. Really bad. And I thought it was psoriasis. It just was nerves. And my husband was like, maybe you don't want to go. I said, I'm going. I'm going. I'm going to wear a mask. Everything's good. So this lady started to cook, and everything she made, it was like I was little again.

46:21Because when I was small, they were all Italian, making Italian food. You know, they give you the pastino with the butter, or they make the sauce, and it's just delicate. or they make, and there everything was zucchini because they grew it, you know, and the cherry, the little tomatoes. And the tomatoes there taste like real tomatoes. And they would, she would make it, and I just felt like a little kid. I just felt nourished, and it took me way back to Brooklyn, you know. and I think that that kind of soul that's soul food for me you know Do you go to Italy on holiday a lot? Um yeah but I want to go to Sicily Have you never been?

47:18Yeah You know I want to see my family but I don't want to interrupt them and go hey I'm coming and you know because everybody is cuckoo you know I just want them to relax Will you be touring Italy on your... No. Oh, what a shame. Because, you know, it's always like... You can't go there. It's too expensive. I know. Where are you touring? Which European countries? I am going to Germany. So in Düsseldorf, all the German relatives are coming. Okay. So my cousin, her husband, the kids. I know those kids since they were little. And my cousin, I know her since she was little. and her father and her mother and her sister and her son.

48:02They were all coming. So it'd be fun. You know, but it's quick. Where else are you going? Berlin, Düsseldorf. We're going to Poland. I don't know anybody there, but... Jessie loves it. I've never been to Poland. I mean, they're a good crowd. I mean, they don't even go. They're quite devoted. To Poland, you know, like, who goes to Poland? But I figured, you know what? It's your farewell tour. you've never been to Poland, which means you'll never be if you don't go now. Is it really your farewell tour? No, it won't be your farewell tour. Oh, hell yeah. Are you sure? Yeah, you're going to be like Elton, though, who keeps on like...

48:38You ever go on tour? No. You don't know what it's like. No, I tell you, we went on a podcast tour. Lenny, first-timer, ordering cocktails, drinks, champagne, having the time of her life up late. First tour, last tour. I was like I need to rest my voice and go to sleep Lenny was in the hotel bar having a big one that's exhausting first of all you gotta pack, pack in pack out, even if you're not doing the packing you're there it's stressful, you gotta get your stuff done you need your stuff to do your work then you gotta make sure you have it you gotta make sure you get there get to sleep, get up go to the gig after five hours of doing what you have to do just to get to the gig then you got to do the gig then when you're done with the gig even if you're feeling edgy you still got to get back get stuff off of you get on dress try and steam but that's got to go into the truck and you got to hurry up and and and then you got to go on the double decker bus now i haven't been on that oh yeah because you don't do double decker in the states yeah well i'm just wondering if i need that velcro blanket because i'm in you know they put the star in the back you ever be on the back of no i saw where jesse was it's kind of like a freaking wash and dry cycle i couldn't be doing that you know i tried to make the bed and i was being but don't you feel sick when you're traveling no i just felt like i was in an i love Lucy uh episode what about going to the bathroom oh no solid waist.

50:19I know. That would be the very... When we first used to go on tour, my friend, she was the percussion player, Sue Hijab was, we used to do this solid waist dancers. But, you know. But, you're an amazing performer. No, I love it, but I don't like touring. I know, there's a lot, it's all the stuff around it, I know. Maybe you should do a residency in New York. Who knows? Yeah, it's not like I'm not going to sing again. No, because... I'm just not going to talk. Have you done a residency in Las Vegas? You like Las Vegas, do you? I think, let's go New York, let's find a little... It's dry, it's warm.

50:59Honey, it's more than warm. It might be good for you. It's shake and bake, it's 110 degrees sometimes. But wouldn't it be good for your body, your psoriasis? She's got it under control, I think. Oh, hell no. Do you need damp? Moisture. Oh, moisture, okay. I mean, you know, It is the driest place I've ever been to. My skin. Cindy, I like... Your skin is phenomenal. Can I just say, you look gorgeous. Yeah, but I did a facial this morning. I did the collagen pads. I did light therapy. I had platelets in my face. I work really hard at looking good. You look great. Because, yeah, well, what if I didn't...

51:37And your skin is like parchment. It's beautiful. Well, my mother had good skin. And my great-grandfather had good skin. And my grandmother had good skin. But if you don't take care of it, and then, of course, when I got psoriasis, I realized that the skin is an organ. Yeah. And I had no idea because when I was covered head to toe, that's when I learned what the skin does. Because I was always freezing and cold and freezing and cold. And then I realized, oh, oh, that's what the skin does. It regulates body temperature. Before we let you go. We're leaving. Well, I don't really want you to. You're holding an amethyst.

52:15I think it's an amethyst crystal. Oh, yeah. Do you travel with crystals a lot? Yes, I got rocks. She's just your type of gal, man. She's my kind of gal, yeah. Jessie loves a crystal. Love a crystal, yeah. You know. But you've got this one out. Is that just because it was in your pocket, or are you feeling like you need it right now? No, no, I always hold this. My favorite rock. It's new. And you can put your fingers like that, but it's kind of a quartz, too. Okay. So it's a combination of quartz and amethyst together. And it's smoky. And it's got some action in there. So it's good. It's just grounding.

52:51It's good. I have other stones that I take. I like them. But my husband thinks, you don't need any more rocks. Does your husband travel with you? Never. Girls just want to have fun. He'll come to see me. He came five times to see the show in the States. And he was fantastic, and he took pictures. I'll show you the pictures. I need to come and see the show. Of the people that come, because they come dressed up. It's a safe place for people to come and just be who you are and have fun, no judgment. It's happy, make you laugh, people crying, dancing. My daughter did True Colors in her Christmas concert.

53:47And hearing, listen, I know it's a huge gay anthem, but also it's for everyone. It's also for everybody. It's for everybody. But I have to say, a big gang of kids singing it really hit the spot. It was moving when children sing it. Yeah. It's moving when children sing anything that they feel, that that makes them feel good. And for me, there are some special songs. And I was, I'm grateful to be part of two songs. I didn't write them. They're my arrangements. But I didn't write them. Girls and True Colors, you know. I thought, so who wrote True Colors? Because I thought it was about your friend.

54:28Well, yes, I sang it because my friend had passed away. And he had asked me. Was it Gregory? Gregory. He had asked me to sing a song like That's What Friends Are For. Gregory asked that he said write me a song like that's what friends are for and I looked at him and I'm thinking okay and I'm thinking to myself that's Burt Bacharach that's a big order so I tried I wrote Boy Blue because I was very emotional but I realized later that you know you can't pour out your heart and your liver for repetitive play it has to be more but when I did True Colors that was different because it was a healing song and it was for us, for the people who survived him and for him and I didn't realize until years later because a lot of people gravitated to that song there were little kids that were sick with cancer that used to hold on to that song and it made them feel better and I'll be honest with you in the beginning of my career there were bags of fan mail that I didn't even see that just got tossed.

55:39And then I started to kind of get a few things and understand. You know, I knew that it was a healing song. I knew that. And it was really hard because with girls, you're trumpeting an idea. It's in a trumpet key. It's loud. You can get people's attention. with true colors, everything was an interior rhythm. It was interior. The drum was meant to be like an archaic calling, like the oldest communication as a human is the drum, right? Because the drum, and you'd listen, and they'd answer, right? So that was supposed to call from inside. and then I wanted the voice, my voice, to sound like I was whispering in your ear, especially if you're driving in a car.

56:37So there was this machine, it's the DSO, and it kind of works both ways. You can take the S out or you can put the S in, and it just brought more breath to it. and I was able to make it so that in the tiniest voice, in the most tender voice I could, have that voice whisper to the most tender part of a person so that they would, wherever it hurt, it would heal. And then you sing these words, and I didn't, when I tried to put more music in it and give it welly, you know, as you guys say, it didn't take it it became a little corny because when the sentiment is that strong you can't give it a strong powerful thing because it's powerful on its own so I had to learn the power of a whisper and that was a big change so when I would be on TV I was holding the crystal, too, because I was scared to death.

57:52Because all of a sudden, I had to grab people's attention with this song. And all I heard in my head was, Healer, heal. And I knew the song was a healing song, so I did it like that. That was my intention, and I just let go. And because when your intention is that, sometimes on a very commercial kind of thing, you kind of get through the gatekeepers and do something that you get to be a part of something extraordinary. And all the musicians that played on that and the engineers and all the people that sold it were a part of that really special thing. And just as girls was, I mean, girls, everybody just said, ah, girls just want to have fun.

58:48They're fun. You know, and then I thought, yeah, and the wrestlers, right, why not? I'm a wrestling manager now. Okay, you know. But underneath, what was it saying? What was the video saying? The video was saying that don't matter what color you are or who you are. diversity so that every little girl could see herself and know that she too is entitled to a joyful experience in life and that was the bottom line and on top yeah all the gatekeepers like you know and it was and it is and it is fun but underneath the only time that I really felt and cried was at the first woman's demonstration. When everybody wore pink hats and I saw these young girls with these signs, girls just want to have fundamental rights.

59:50And I used to get in trouble for talking about feminism and blah, blah, blah. Why can't you just wear jeans and a t-shirt and sing and what's the matter with you and blah, blah, blah. But the little ones heard. And then that's why when I saw the sign, I called up my friends who I started two colors with, and I said, listen, you see what's going on here? Let's start the Girls Just Want to Have Fundamental Rights Fund. And at first they were like, well, you know, it was such a... And then they said, okay, and that's what we did. And we've raised money, and you can even go on the website. You can find Girls Just Want to Have Fundamental Rights Fund and see what we've done with the money, because we've raised money, and what organizations we've given it to, and how we have helped, and we're still raising money.

1:00:45You are extraordinary. You're inspiring. You're brilliant. You're a trailblazer. No, not that brilliant. No, but I want to leave everyone with this. Funny story. My manager, who isn't here today, went to see you, I think, about 20 years ago or something. Oh, 20 years ago. You did a show at G-A-Y. What's that? G-A-Y. It's a big gay night here in Soho. And you did. I don't know. It must have been about 20 years ago. Oh, my God. Because I'm trying to figure what I wore. Because it was a lot of fun. Was it a gorilla outfit? Well, I'm not sure. But what I do know is that he was walking home with his new boyfriend.

1:01:26And they were walking home through Old Compton Street. and a car drives past them. The window winds down. It's you and you say, hey, I'm gone for breakfast. Come on, get in. And he said he didn't get in and it's one of the biggest mistakes of his life. I said that? Yes. I did that? Yes. Oh my God. He'd just been to see you. You're inviting him for breakfast. He's too busy wanting to get home with David because they're at the beginnings of their relationship. Oh my God. I'm happy to say they're still together, but it is a big regret that he didn't jump in for breakfast. Oh my God, I can't believe I did that.

1:01:56I don't remember doing that, I thought, wow. He just said it was one of the biggest regrets he's ever had. Oh, don't be the one. But he is still with his lovely guys. Well, that's not a regret then, is it? Thank you so much, Cindy, for being on this. You are brilliant. And I think we could have done about a part one, a part two, a part three, a part four. I wish you all the best with a farewell tour. Thank you. Thank you. It's been such... I can't believe you cooked for us. Thank you. It was a pleasure. My pleasure. I'm glad you ate. I even ate at my own wedding. What can I do?

1:02:41I just want to have fun. I want to have a whole year of fun with Cindy Lauper. She's so great. She's amazing. She just is enthusiastic about everything. She's funny. Talks. She has a story about everything. I didn't even get to ask her about Prince. like one of her good friends and singing when you were mine and bet she had a good prince story i mean didn't talk about the goonies i'm sorry i acknowledge this we had you know a certain amount of time and she she had a lot of stories she's completely wonderful she's fab she's stylish she's inspiring and she's on tour next week in uh at the o2 and uk and europe and you should go and see her because she'll put on quite a show and just a big fan of cindy lauber food was really nice mum oh there's no butts today no it was great did she like the did you like the borscht yeah i mean for like a beetroot soup yeah i like it's not my biggest thing me neither we're all gonna have pink wee later aren't we are we yeah and pink poo oh okay just to warn you great um but yeah loved that that was amazing right that was like a whirlwind yeah did you like the tart loved the tart do you want that for your brunch tomorrow no no I'm fine it's delicious though thank you so much to Cindy Lauper thanks mum for doing it and also thanks to Andy for letting us use this flat today thank you Andy Barker we'll see you soon next week bye

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