Giorgio Locatelli

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0:39Hello and welcome to Tober Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here at Mum's house. Hi. Mum and I are both looking a little sun-kissed. Freshly turned. Went on holiday last week. Had the best time. It was wonderful. I've forgotten how well we got on. I know. Why did we get on so well? Because we weren't doing the podcast. There was no cooking. I think I was very kind to you this week. You were kind. I looked after you. You did. You did. Yeah. Shout out Pelagone in Zekinthos. Oh, my goodness. We had the best fun. I made a new best friend. Oh, my God. Penny. The fabulous Penny. Do you want to tell all the listeners that are of a certain age?

1:17So Penny started way in. And for the older people who listen, they will remember this fabulous boutique within Harrods that was completely dark with purple lighting. And I've just phoned my best friend, Alex, who used to go there all the time as well. We love Penny and her gorgeous daughter, Kate. And we met, we made fabulous friends. We did. It was so fun. My daughter won Sailor of the Week. Sailor of the Week. Why? Hang on, like, because I have never, I'm not a boat gal. No. I did do Sunrise Paddle, though. Michelle's very pleased with myself. I got up at 5.30 in the morning. Yeah. Sam, because I've got such bad eyesight, said that he saw a dolphin or a seal.

1:59We thought we saw dolphins. They were actually tuna. Do you know how attention-seeking tuna is? Yeah, they dance around with their silver tails. I was like, oh my God, because I'm blind. It's dolphins. Well, we all thought it was dolphins. And I was like, wow, Pelagoni really seeing us off with the fireworks on the last sunset. No, they weren't dolphins. They were tuna. They were fabulous. Flapping about. It was like Fantasia need to be playing in the background. It was like the fountains at Disney. It was about 20 of them. It was mad. Yeah, it was great. Anyway, had a great holiday. Feel rested, feel ready to go.

2:31Feel rested, ready to go. I didn't do any windsurfing or boats. Neither did I. We did nothing like that. But we did have a good chance. But we did eat well and we drank well. Yeah, it was amazing. So, ready to start this podcast. Right, so I got back quite late last night. I know we did get back late. Got in at 12, watched you on Jules Holland and was thrilled because you were amazing. Thank you, Mum. So I got up and I prepared everything for dinner today so that we could, because it is a Michelin star chef. Yeah, we have Giorgio Locatelli coming on, who is a famous Michelin star chef, who is also the new celebrity master chef judge with Grace Dent.

3:13Wow, great gig. Such a great gig. So he's coming over. What have you got on the menu, Len? So I've made a herb-crusted rack of lamb. The last time I heard about a herb-crusted rack of lamb was with Nigella Lawson. I've made a different crust. Okay. New potatoes with asparagus mixed in. Yeah. Jersey Royals, actually. And then I've done ribbons of courgette. Which we were inspired by the old windmill in Zirkinthos, which was, shout out to Panos and his wife, who's just had a new baby. And great cooking. They had in their kitchen, they had every cookbook that we've got. But they had my friend's dusty knuckle.

3:56They had Easter Belfridge in there. Yotam. They had Honey & Co. It was so lovely to see all these cookbooks. And Panos is really doing amazing kind of fusion, exciting food. Also, the orange and cream ice cream and the lavender and honey ice cream were amazing. Spectacular. But we were inspired by this. So it's kind of ribbons of courgette with a pesto, lemon and olive oil dressing and pine nuts and feta on top. And then what else are we having? And then a gorgeous lady called Victoria told me about a fab pavlova. You were sitting on the sun lunges next to her. Yeah. And she said her friend recognized my voice because it's so endearing, I would say.

4:42Not whiny, as you would say. she told me about a pavlova I was going to make something completely different for dessert where you put pistachio cream in with the cream and then it's got strawberries crushed pistachios toasted crushed pistachios and edible fowls on top it looks gorgeous I pushed the boat out for Giorgio this sounds delicious Giorgio Locatelli coming up on Table Miners

5:18Giorgio thank you so much for being here you've come in and you showered us with GIF you smell wonderful by the way what is that I don't know it's some perfume I think it's Chanel oh it's so good but can we just talk about the fact that within our beautiful gifts this comes out what is this i used to fly quite a lot when we had the consultancy all over the words and the things that you can never get is a nice drink and that's you know very very rarely you can get a nice drink on the plane so we decide to make this negroni which is my favorite drink and we just put you on the 100 mil so you can actually carry it you can carry two of them if you want if you greedy and then you just ask for a glass with ice and then you put your drink in it have you ever been stopped at insecurity.

6:09No, never. Yeah, because they want to take it from you because they want to drink it themselves. So they stop at security and they don't say, what is this? They do, but then it's, you know, it's there. Everything is written and it's under a mill so they cannot do anything about it. I love that this was your priority. And I'm here for it and I'm on a plane tomorrow so maybe I'm going to put this with my skincare. People that can't see, this is Giorgio's Negroni, which is coming in a very easy sachet. Which is recyclable as well. Okay, well, we love to save the world whilst we're getting drunk. So thank you so much.

6:45And I have a friend that is your soon-to-be daughter-in-law. Relative. Daughter-in-law. Carla. Carla. Carla Rossi. Carla Rossi, who messaged me yesterday, a picture of you at a barbecue. What was on the barbecue menu yesterday? day okay so there was some there was some chicken chicken thighs then we marinated and i think plexi prepared these two different marinate one was a bit it was like a jerk and then the other one was a kind of like a greeny one really really delicious yeah and then there was some sausages of course you cannot have a bargain without sausages what kind of yeah yeah there were like just 100 % pork sausages italian pork sausage from the italian butcher and uh well that's i also had some Kind of like, I don't know, you take spring onions, and then you just clear it really well, tops and bottoms, and then you wrap it up with a thing of bacon.

7:44And then you press it really nicely, and then you put it in the fridge. And then you cool them down. When they're cooled, then you put them on the grill and roll them gently, gently. And the idea is then it's really croquant on the outside, and the onions is cooked in the middle. It's a typical thing, a Sicilian thing. It's actually on the book that I give you. There is a recipe for that. That sounds delicious. There's a description of that. Yeah, it's very, and the streaky bacon is perfect for that, which is something that you don't find so much in Italy. So with the streaky bacon, they come absolutely perfect, beautiful.

8:14Are you Sicilian? No, I'm not, but I fell in love with Sicily when I was about 30. I've never been, you know, I come from northern Italy, and, you know, the northern Italian always think that the southern Italian, they just, you know, they don't want to work. It's a big divide. It's a big divide, yeah. Big divide. divide and so and i got invited there when i was 31 or 32 i got invited there to do a project with olive oil and i fell in love with the place i fell in love so much and you know then from that year for 10 years on woods we rent a house on the same place for 10 years and we went back and you know the cuisine was so because sicily is so so different than italy it's right in the middle of the Mediterranean.

8:56So it was the most important piece of land in the world for thousands of years. And then as soon as America got discovered, then everything changed and he lost it completely. But, you know, you have there, you have something that is incredible in Sicily because, you know, we're talking about fusion on cuisine now. So usually fusion is a chef sitting in his kitchen, gets produce from all over the world and he makes this fusion of this and makes this recipe then it's a fusion of culture and history and also ingredients. In Sicily, it's upside down because you have all the culture have come from the Greeks, the Arabs, the Normans, the English, the French, the Spanish, they all come there and they all play with the same ingredients of the island.

9:48And so you have this cuisine that has a really incredible sort of, and that's why I wrote the book, because I thought it was very, very important. And it changed my way of cooking as well. So, you know, for a chef, I think it's quite difficult that you get to 30, 35, and then you kind of turn it around. But it was so, you know, it was just such a beautiful place and beautiful people that it was so inspiring. And I thought it was just incredible. And the food that I grew up with, my first restaurant that I had in London was Zafferano. And it was described as a northern Italian restaurant because we did cook northern Italian food.

10:25And after these trips, you know, I start to really use a lot of also the southern Italian cooking because I thought it was worth it. And it was and also because obviously when I was 30, then, you know, it was the moment that Europe got very close. So we could get a lot of much more of the ingredients, you know. Giorgio, what's that place in Sicily, the bottom where the three seas meet? Mediterraneo, Tirreno e Ionio Yes, so they all meet and they fish with swordfish there Well, that's what happens, the Nistrate of Messina It was this food writer, one of the first food writers It was called Arche Stratos, it was 2000 BC And he wrote about his travelling around it And he says one thing, especially the best swordfish that you can get is the one that you can get from the strait.

11:14And I remember I went with an old boyfriend and we went there and we watched. And the fishing boats have like a long sword at the front. They look like swordfish. And they go out at night and they fish with the light. Was it the most incredible swordfish? It was. Fantastic swordfish. It's just what happened is this, that they come there before the mating season. And so they are on there really strength. And so that's where you catch them. I mean, obviously they catch them all year as well. now. But you know obviously there was season as well. I mean sometimes you say there's season for fish people look at you and go are you mad or something you have season.

11:50But fish have got season that you should fish them and not. So in the swordfish it was very much that. And Sicilian wine is very good. Sicilian wine is very good. It's something quite new. It's only the last 40 years, 35-40 years because you know like Puglia and Sicily both regions produced a lot of beautiful grapes which is sun-kissed So a lot of sugar, so a lot of alcohol. And so that grapes used to be sent up to the north. But they made the wine now. And to France as well. You know, like they were saying, I was reading something, it was like more than 70 % of the grapes that they produced until the 70s, they'll go to France.

12:28And in France, they make the wine with the Italian grapes in order to, because in France, if you have a year, then it's cold, especially in the north, then you don't have sugar, then you don't have alcohol. So that's what they needed. and so that's what they used to bring up but now they you have small realities more producer than producing the era that's what is really nice that you just and in at have you been to etna yeah with that man that is amazing i mean i always say when you if you have kids if you want to give them something to remember for the rest of your life you got to take them down it's amazing because that is the closest things that you can get to be on the moon or somewhere like that it is an amazing place and all you know obviously is very fertile it's yeah all the around so as you go around it which there is a train that goes all around the things and then you go to the nebrodi and then you come back from the other side and you have this unbelievable garden that's where the the the pistachio grows you know the the the pistachio my god i can't remember the name of it I think you're like a historian on food.

13:36You need to do an encyclopedia. We love Stanley Tucci, but I think there needs to be Giorgio Locatelli's Italy. You need to go and do like a travel programme. Yeah, that's what I need to do. That's what I like to do, actually. That's what I like to do. Well, I mean, should we talk about the first programme that we're about to announce? Would you like to do the honours, Giorgio?

13:58I think I'm the first Italian to be nominated as MasterChef judge. Wow. Of England. English MasterChef. You're doing the celebrity MasterChef. The celebrity one, yes. You are the judge with Grace Dent. With Grace, yeah. Which is like a great girl, northern girl, lover. Have you filmed it yet? Yeah, we've done it. in Birmingham. Did you have a great time? That must have been fun. On the studio, yes. Outside, a little bit less because we had like 46 days of rain. Oh, no! It only rained. And you have to like a good curry in Birmingham. I do like a good curry. Yeah, that's very good. I tell you, the city is fantastic.

14:44I really love it. It is amazing food. And they're so warm. And if you ask somebody in the street something that'll help you, they'll take you to where you want to go. It's such a nice, warm place. it's just, it rains all the time. It's like, you know. Can we ask what kind of judge should we expect from Giorgio Locatelli? Are we, have we got our own kind of tagline? Like Simon Cowell had, I don't like it. I love it. Have you found your tagline yet? I think, no, I think I'm still looking for it. But, you know, my idea, it was that, you know, I kind of like the idea to work with Grace on these. And really, because, I mean, these are celebrities.

15:28Can you name any of the celebrities? Are you allowed? I don't know. No, I can't. You're not allowed? Not allowed. I'm not allowed. It's too early. Okay. But so the idea is, you know, we're working with celebrities. So, and which is different than working with, you know, people that want to be a chef. Yeah. But still, you can really see them growing in what you do. And so these were the things that interest me more on the whole experience, really. And as a judge, I really tried to be... Were you kind? Were you good cop or bad cop? I think I was a bad cop. Oh, no! I thought you'd be good cop! What was that lovely smile?

16:06Well, strict, strict, strict. You're strict? Oh, God, now I'm frightened. Oh, Jesus. Strict. Strict about, you know, cleanliness and organisation. Okay. So those little skills that you teach them slowly. Was it tough love, basically? Yeah, kind of thing. You know, like, I'll make you an example. Okay. Like, the people come, and the first thing they do is that you tell them, okay, cook, whatever. So they take their onions, and on the bench, what they do is just start to peel the onions here, and then they leave a bit of the onions of the skin there. And so the idea was like, you know, you kind of always go in and say, you know, okay, oh, look, I get a bowl, a big bowl.

16:45So everything you peel, you peel it inside here, so your table is clean. And so those are little, little tips. Excuse me, Lenny. I use a bowl and I do compost. Thank you, Lenny. But we like to keep it clear. My grandma taught me that and you're actually obsessed with that. Okay, fair enough. It's good, you know, to be obsessed about organization and cleanliness in the food usually comes out, gives a good result. Did you, were you wowed by any of the dishes? Yes, there was somebody who really surprised me a few times. in the positive and in the negative. But, you know, yeah, it was like, it was fun.

17:27It was good fun to do. It was really good fun to be with there. And, you know, everyone has proved something already in their lives and they achieve already something. That's why they're there, because they are celebrities in different fields, public. and also we had some sports people, which, you know, was a big, big difference. Yes, unbelievable. Food is fuel to sportsmen, I think. No, but the competition, Mark. It's also the great thing about it, that, you know, the people that worked in entertainment, they found it so difficult to cook to the time. Ah, divas. Like the sportsmen, the sports people, they hit it on the time.

18:10So their life is all run by time, while the other people is all about creativity. did you make any new best friends i did yeah i did kind of like you know we can't can't keep in touch at the moment but i'm sure i'm going to get in touch right i'm going to interrupt you because you're a michelin star chef i'm doing rack of lamb and i've seared it first and it's got a little crust on which you can take off if you hate it but how long would you put it It says between 5 and 15 minutes. It's already seared, the lamb. So how long would you leave it in the oven for? It depends what the crust is like.

18:46The crust is only breadcrumbs. Okay, breadcrumbs are herbs. And herbs. And herbs and herbs, yeah. And you put a bit of butter in it? Yeah, put all the butter in and everything. Butter in there. Butter in there. So... No, how long would you put it in the oven? No more than six or seven minutes. Okay. Definitely less than ten. And how long would you rest it for? That's the thing. Resting is more important than actually cooking at this point. I'm stressed out for Lenny now. He's going in. Yeah. What do you think? Tell me, can we push on it? Yeah. Oh, yeah, because he's a proper chef. He fingers it, yeah.

19:22Oh, yeah, that's eight or ten minutes, yeah. Eight or ten. Mum, maybe you finger it too, Mum, so you can see what... An eight or ten. It's nice and soft. Okay, all right, okay. You put a bit of mustard on it. I put mustard and then I did breadcrumbs with all different herbs. Let's see. Now, speaking of Italy, you grew up in northern Italy. Can you take us back to the family dinner table? And who was around that dinner table? And what were you eating? So the family was a bit complex because what happened is this. My granddad built this restaurant with my uncle. and all the family worked in this restaurant.

20:07So for us, Saturday, Sunday, Christmas, there were working days for everyone. And what kind of Italian food? Italian food and then you had like... Was it a trattoria or was it more... A little bit more elegant than a trattoria. It was a new building on the lakes, overlooking the lake and the restaurant. Which lake? It's called Lago di Comabio, which is seven lakes around Como, Maggiore. Which lake was it? It's called Comabio. I've only been to Como. Yeah, Como is very close, about 20 kilometres. There is seven lakes in that area. So it's one of the smallest ones, you know. And so they built this hotel and had like restaurants on the ground floor sort of thing.

20:49And then a banqueting room on the top, which had 150, 200 people could dine in there. And then there are 10 rooms at the top. Right, okay. So it was an hotel and restaurant. It was really, it was built in 1963, so when I was born. So you lived in this hotel? No, we didn't. We lived in the village. But, you know, my uncle and his wife and my cousin lived there, but we lived in the village. But, you know, from a very young age, we would all go there. But my uncle was from this sort of pastry. It was a brother, one of the brothers from this really great pastry in Gallarate, which is this sort of like place between us and Milan, you know.

21:26And so for us, Tuesday, when the restaurant was closed, was the day that everybody got together. So on Tuesday, we wouldn't get the bus to come home because we'd arrive too late. So either my dad or somebody would come and pick us up from school, so we would be at 1 o 'clock, bam, on the dot, we would be home. And it would be always, you know, both my granddad, both my grandmother, which they all leave until they were on their hundreds, all of them. Crikey, what did they eat? Very little, apparently, when they were young. I think that's why you live long eat less and so and also sometimes the uncle from the pastry shop will join us so it will always be a big big table and you know obviously in the winter there will be always this northern Italian food gives its best during the winter with the polenta, the rabbits my granddad used to raise rabbits so we used to kill them and skin them and just cook them.

22:30Did you have to do that? I helped him, yeah. Yeah? Yeah. I think, you know, this is a very important thing because I guess as a kid, if you see doing that, you grow up with the kind of respect of the meat that you eat. I think then the people that buy meat in packets in the supermarket, they feel such a distance and not responsible for it. Yeah. Well, you know, this is, you know, for them to throw away a piece of meat would be like nothing. Well, for somebody who raised something and killed it and cooked it, he would never throw it away. Do you still like rabbit? I love rabbit. Do you? It was one of my favourite dishes.

23:11I always had it on the menu during the winter. Did you? It was one of my signature dishes, Locanda. Yeah. I have to say, I had such a beautiful meal at Locanda Locatelli. Jessie can remember the exact thing. Well, I remember the angel hair pasta. was it with truffle and butter it was like it was so comforting I think I was pregnant with my first child and we went and my friend took us there Henry village who was trying to he was like I'm going to take you to my favorite sport and it just it was it was so delicious so comforting but also beautiful and elegant but yeah so I loved it so much well we always tried to do something them was very much we always felt that we wanted to see an italian restaurant they had high quality because sometimes you know we kind of think about italians oh yeah it's more about you know the idea of being welcoming and a bit noisy and and not so much on delivering the quality we always told that you know we want to do something that has a very high quality that reflect my sort of career in the kitchen but we want to have that family it really felt when somebody says oh that was a really delicious meal but you know it was like being at home i think that was the we always say well that's the best compliment which is your favorite pasta dish that you cook without even thinking and you just think i fancy a bit of something nice tonight but you know it's just spaghetti with tomato sauce yeah and your tomato sauce is is depends where I am, obviously when we are in Puglia, when we are in Italy, obviously it will be like the tomato.

24:47Yeah, the fresh garden, I just cook them. Like in this time of the season, I would use cuore di bua, I wouldn't even cook it. I would just dice them, season them. Basil, oil. And just put it on the pasta. And then you just let them as you're going, and then you add a little bit of your boiling water of the spaghetti as it goes, and then you're spaghetting it and that's it. So you don't even make a sauce with onion or garlic? No, No, no, no, no. Just roll like that. Like a salad. Yeah. And then you serve. By the time you serve it, it's warm and it's nice. And you get that bit. You can put some olives or some anchovies in it or something like that.

25:21Delicious. Do you add any sugar? Okay, sugar. Oh, my God. What have I done? It's a big thing about it. No, you shouldn't. Need to. People also say, oh, you put sugar to get rid of the acidity. No, it doesn't work like that. It doesn't get rid of the acidity. It just becomes sweet. don't get rid of the acidity, it's the same would you put sugar in? I've never put sugar in any of my sauce I put a tiny amount in I mean I'm not an Italian Michelin star chef, so what do I know? Depends as well, if you're making a tomato sauce straight from tomato, from fresh tomato No, it's from the mutti That's what you use in mutti I like that, I think it's really delicious I also do this thing and you're going to be like, why are you doing it?

26:08I cut half an onion I cut half an onion and I like the Marcella Hassan tomato sauce you leave the you put the onion in the tomato sauce, bring it to the boil and then leave it for an hour or something I would never do it she's American is she I tried to do it the other week and I thought I'm going to try it because I'd seen someone on an Instagram do it and I thought I'm going to have a go but no it's not for me The quality of the tomato sauce is always based on the quality of the tomato that you get and the freshness. Okay, but so you said that it was fine that I was using those tins. So how, with that, you wouldn't add sugar with that one?

26:51No. Okay. No, because, like, example, a company like that, they'll pick the tomato. The great thing about tomato in the tin is that sometimes it's better than fresh tomato. Yeah. Because the fresh tomato, you don't know really what you got there. Well, with that, you know all the time that it's been picked at the right time of the year. One of the most important thing is she's got all the written in there. Then on the top or the bottom, there is always a printing with different numbers. So those are the day of the year that they've been picked. Oh, bloody hell. What you have to try to do is always to go to the 150, 140, 120.

27:36So if you have the 100, it's a series of numbers. The second number is, have you got a tin of two? Have you got a tin of two? Oh, this is so annoying. How annoying. Sorry. And so that tells you. So obviously you always try to get the one that they picked, end of spring, start of summer. Because that's where you get the best. So is that the number of days? The day that it's been picked. So we're going for 150, 150. 120 till 150. This is such good intel. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, grazie. Okay, so rabbit around the dinner table was kind of, so your uncle would be bringing in some beautiful pastries.

28:13Pastries, yeah, big cake all the time. Would there ever be leftovers from the hotel? Yeah, there would be stuff like if they had a big banqueting on a Sunday with lasagna and there would be some leftovers that would be coming. but my grandmother used to be like kind of my grandmother vincenzina which is you know the you know i used to cook with her that's the one that's the first person i cook with and she used to be kind of proud that she didn't want to have too many other things coming the pastry okay but for the rest you look after the old thing okay and you know and they have like a really like i don't know have you ever heard about this like it's like a stew of cabbage and it's called cassola it's cabbage and it's got pork in it you use the nose you use the ears use everything everything was left over the pig goes in there and it's delicious you know yeah yeah and always serve it with polenta polenta i've never really cooked with polenta because i i really enjoy it but i kind of don't feel confident with it because i feel like i can make it too sloppy do you know You know what I mean?

29:15Look, you know, a bag of polenta of half a kilo costs£1.20. It's really... It's affordable. Yeah, you can make a mistake with that. Okay, fine. And, you know, let's say that it's one of these ingredients that has 100 lives. Because let's imagine that you do them and it gets a little bit too heavy or too starchy. Yeah. So let it cool down. Then you're going to cut it. Then you can start it again. You can do a bechamel. You add some tomato. You can add some cheese or things like that. You mix it again and then you bake it. It's fantastic. What do I have to touch now? What do you mean, don't you have to touch?

29:50It's still... No, it's still rare, right? So shiny that you have left? Yeah, yeah, a few minutes more. How long has it been in? Ten minutes? Ten minutes. But we think longer. Yeah, like two, three minutes more. Okay. You don't want it rare, rare, rare, do you? No. No, okay. Okay. I would love you to start thinking about your last supper. My last supper? Yes. you're going to have your starter, your main, your dessert and your drink of choice. Okay. My starter would definitely be one of, I think I only created two or three recipes in my life. So this is one of them, which is like a scallops with the saffron vinegar.

30:30And that's something that, you know. That's woken up my taste buds. Oh my God, that sounds amazing. And that was, we used to serve you as well. with which to serve. I would love to be served with some, some celeriac puree. Celeriac puree. Celeriac puree, yeah. Yeah, that's a really, kind of like, I don't know, it has a fantastic taste and really make the sweetness of the scallops really blow up. So it's really, really delicious. Do you remember when you created that dish? After I came back from Paris. Okay. And I was in Paris, when I'm in Paris, I learned. When you were cooking in Paris. I cooked in Paris for three years and I've worked in these two restaurants and in one of the restaurants we used to do this gastric which was like a reduction of sugar vinegar, wine sometimes wine, sometimes not but sometimes vinegar and we used to use this fantastic vinegar that would come like raspberry vinegar and they would make these really sweet things like that and I don't know how it came but one day when I was eating some grilled scallops like that I thought about the flavour of the of the Only one fancier drop of wine, I don't.

31:38Yeah, I love it. And I thought about the combination of the flavour. The flavour of saffron is very common to us, northern Italian, because Italian is always risotto with saffron. Yes. So it's a thing, you know, like. And then, I don't know how, I got it and I tried and I used the technique of the gastric and I put it together and it felt like, you know, this is British. There is no better scallops than scallops that come from Ireland. northern scotland they are the best scallops in the world you know they are you don't get them anywhere else as big as there and beautiful and so and and the the combination of sort of my identity what i learned in paris and and the produce that was british i felt it was just such a good good match okay so we've got the starter main are we gonna are you gonna slip in a preemie i feel like you're allowed because you're italian no i think i you know as a main i want to have a risotto.

32:36What risotto are we having? Since it's the last supper it must be with white truffle. Oh my, I've never had that. So the tagliolini that you had, but on a risotto. Have you had that? Well that's why I had it his, but not risotto. Is it salute? Salute. Salute. Alla salute. Alla salute. So you're going to have risotto. Yeah, so you enjoy the tagliolini, but the tagliolini are really good with the white truffle. the tagliolini the pasta usually loses the heat quite fast especially because you're working with the batter sauce so you cannot have it boiling otherwise it's split okay but the risotto holds its heat so much so as you grate in the truffle on top the truffle touches and kind of like I don't know it's not a very nice word to say but it sweats out oh yeah the smell so you're having like a double double of the flavor that you will get if you have pasta with it.

33:34And then are you having any sides with that? No. No. This idea of, you know, when you're eating pasta, you're eating pasta. With risotto, you're risotto. You don't eat pasta with other things. Okay. Not even a salad? Are we not even having a salad? No. Okay, fine. No, the truffle. Okay. This is very delicious and very specific. Now... I'm frightened. No, I am too for you. I feel like maybe Giorgio just needs to take over now, mum. No, he doesn't. Do you need to just I think it might need one more minute actually. Yeah, is it soft? Is it like, you know that? Just go and check, Georgia, go and check.

34:11So if you put your fingers on your little... Yeah, I know what you mean. What am I doing? What am I supposed to... No, no, that's quite soft. What's it supposed to feel like? So that's that part of your finger. It gets harder as you change your fingers. So that's the cooking. I'm regretting doing this one. So your index finger is the cooking? Yes. That's how you want it to feel? It's your Mount of Venus. Mount of Venus. That's what it's called. And it should feel as soft as that. Yes, that's what it is. When it's cooked, right. As you're going along, it gets harder. So this is well done and this is rare.

34:45Jesus. I didn't know this. Which one's well done? Okay, sorry. The other one, the hardest one. Right, people... When you touch that, touch that. People that are listening to this, we are touching our thumb and our index finger. And then if you play with the different fingers touching your thumb, you'll feel that little bit of flesh underneath your thumb that kind of sticks out. What is it called? Mount of Venus. Mount of Venus. Google it. So if I wanted a medium rare steak, would I go to middle? Yeah. Okay. Middle finger. Guys. I might rest this for about a couple of minutes. That's a mistake that everybody makes when they bake a piece of meat.

35:25They never rest it. Resting is as important as the cooking. I'm resting it. Definitely. Get it out of me. Otherwise, I'm about to rest.

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37:23So do you have a sweet tooth? I do. I do kind of like sweets, but I'm not crazy about it. It's that part of the kitchen that I never show too much interest because it's so about reasoning. It's all about precision and following the recipe. I prefer cooks than cooks from the heart. So those guys, usually they're not very good at pastry. I wasn't very good at pastry. and first job that I had at Zafferano, I cut my wages in order to employ a pastry chef. Then you did that. And from there on, I always had a pastry chef, which you have a very good relationship because they need you as much as you need them for the idea.

38:07But I let them the execution, I let the execution to them. And, you know, it's, I don't know. So for your last supper, after the scallops and the risotto, What are we having for pudding? Or is it cheese board? No, I mean... What's your favourite Italian cheese, by the way? It's Castelmagno. Have you ever heard about it? Is it the one that's kind of quite soft? No, no, no. It's quite... Hard. No, we've not come across that one. It's quite gritty. You find it in England as well, but it's very small production. There's only two valleys in Italy that produce it. So pudding, are you not bothered about your pudding?

38:49I'm not bothered about pudding. This is not full enough for me, Giorgio. This is very, this is why you're slim and you look very young and your skin is well and you're going to live till 120. Are you going to be the first person to not have a dessert? No, no, I'll have a dessert. I don't want to put a gun to your head. But I know that when we are at home, I also like, you know, we have a bit of a problem because, you know, we have Margarita, our daughter. Me and Plexi have a daughter, it's called Margarita. and she's been allergic to every nuts, every type of... She's allergic to eggs. So for us, pastry's always been a bit of a no-no-go area.

39:27Has it not got better as she's got older? No, it hasn't. Sometimes it did. Some stuff did better. How old is she? Now she's 30 now. Right. Oh, man, that's... Poor thing. She's endily well and she's okay. She's dealing with it. and you know she always travels around with her epipay so but that's why pastry so for us pastry at home is always either some ice cream we have one of these small ice cream machine and that we make ice have you you make a lot of ice cream at home yeah we make ice cream and sorbets a lot of sorbets and then you know for her is always try to get it because she cannot eat fruit that is uncooked so she can eat fruit when it's cooked so always dessert then they are based so tartatan which is obviously it's French in Italian it's terrible but you know she can eat that exactly because you can do you know the pastry is without eggs and so so we can manage that so but otherwise you know it's I mean like I love fruit based desserts and and souffle souffle is one of the things that you know if I can but you know I can't cook a souffle at all I don't believe that you don't have to cook it you don't have to cook your own dinner by the way yeah like Like, I think a pistachio souffle with the chocolate ice cream.

40:47Oh, my God. Or a chocolate souffle with a pistachio ice cream. What's your favourite ice cream flavour? Pistachio. It is the best thing. Yeah, the Bronte pistachio ice cream is just amazing. Where do you get that? Well, you get a paste. You buy pistachio paste, yeah. This pistachio paste. and it's extremely expensive but you really need a tin like for the machine you need like a half of a spoon like 45, 40 grams. Do you have a home in Italy? Yeah, I have a home. I have, yeah, I have a home in Italy where my mom still lives. Oh, wow. So in Northern Italy. Yeah. And I have a home that me and my wife both in Puglia.

41:27Yeah, everyone says it's sad. Because Blacksy doesn't like Northern Italy. She only likes Southern Italy. She likes a bit of warmth. Yeah, I guess so. I think, you know, she feels then like, you know northern italy where i was born and raised a bit like germany so i think you know everything is or switzerland kind of thing yeah if i i because we always go to greece every year but i am i really want to get to know italy better so if you were going to recommend for food where would you suggest to go on a holiday in italy first of all it's important the season uh-huh okay to go let's go spring or summer spring okay definitely spring definitely around easter okay you will be blown away by easter really and i mean for me sicily would be the best because you guarantee to have very good weather at that time of the year and also you will see something that you've never seen because you know while christmas has become americanized You know, we all become Father Christmas of England.

42:27Christmas was a different thing, you know, a long time ago. Easter has kept this unbelievable quality because it's really, it's not about exchanging presents. Yeah, they give you chocolate eggs, but that's it. You know, it's not commercialized as much, but it's really still a very high religious value. And you can see these things happening in Sicily. It's amazing. Do they do like processions? Everywhere. Yeah. I mean, there is this place, it's called Modica. Modica. Modica. And the city is cut, the city, the fat village is cut in half by the river. People live on this side and on this side, and then at the top they have this church.

43:08And so then from the morning, from Easter morning, the Madonna is, they carry the Madonna with a band on one side, and they are all chasing each other. And then when it comes 12 o 'clock, the city is empty, and there is only the band and these people and everybody is behind the things looking out the window and then when they get to 12 o 'clock they get to the central square and suddenly thousands of people arrives and they get close to it and then everybody says vaza vaza which means kiss vaza vaza vaza vaza vaza and when they lift up the thing and when the madonna touches the Christ underneath this sort of thing that they carry is all these birds, all these doves and they all have like something attached to their feet and they let them out and they all fly out and wherever they go that tells them I mean obviously it's not true but it tells them what it's going to be like because you see it's like spring is coming and so the new season is coming and so that's a very felt things from there.

44:14It sounds magical. I would like to know. I mean, you know, you are... I've got a burning question. Okay, sorry, go. Right. Greece says they've got the best olive oil. Spain will say they've got the best olive oil. Italy definitely say they've got the best olive oil. Who's got the best olive oil? Well, Italians are the ones who are managing to charge more money for it. But, you know, it depends, you know. Obviously, the Italians have kind of like worked out a way to produce the olive oil very fast as soon as they pick the olive like uh and and that makes the olive oil of a higher quality but you know again you know i mean the the biggest amount of olive oil is produced by spain yeah spain is the biggest producer and you know like i've been to greece and they are gorgeous how they do it it's like i love that one down they let they let the olive fall you know and then they think they shake the tree after the tree that's really like you know no you have to you know like in sicily when you we pick the olive oil the olive oil that i brought you that is made in sicily and you know you you have a comb that you put the olive down the olives are really green they're really at the best and you know it's it's the quality of the olive the season counts a lot the quality of the olive comes a lot but also the process of making it and And the fastest you can make it, the better it is.

45:40Once upon a time, you know, the front oil would be one front oil. Front oil is where they press the oil, no? So the front oil would be very spares. Now there is this small front oil, then they are placed all over. So I know that our olive oil gets made in four hours, four to six hours from the picking. Wow. Four hours after you have picked the olive, you have the olive. This is so interesting. So almost the fast, you're saying the faster it is made, the better it is. Yeah. And I guess with other things, you'd be like time and care and effort. And no, it's like, get it in, make it. That's the best.

46:18It's interesting. I never really thought that. I do like olive oil. Also, like, it's good. Yeah. Lebanese makes fantastic olive oil. Really? Yeah. All the basing of the Mediterranean is made. It's just the problem is always that. Then again, they're still. And, you know, lately, a lot of people have gone down there and tried to really make sure that they do this process very fast. I mean, the difference in color and quality and also nutritional value. You know, the polyphenol is still alive. So the green olives is there. And then, you know, which one is the best olive oil? There is no best olive oil because it depends what you're cooking.

46:53If I'm cooking some grilled fish, then I would use some olive oil that come from northern Italy, from Lago di Garda or from Liguria, which is, you know, old Taggiasca olive, which is small black olive. Plaxy, do you get a say at all in what you eat at night and which olive oil you get? I always eat the olive oil that comes from Locatelli. Oh, there we go. Very good. She says the olive oil is from Locatelli that she said we sell. Good, very good. I want to know what you've eaten today today? yeah nothing oh my god I had breakfast have a potato and pop one in your gob now no I'm going to start cutting the ends up can we eat this damn lamb I'm going to start cutting the ends up yeah let's cut the ends up yeah and then we'll go you've eaten nothing all day no I had a really good breakfast what did you have?

47:41I had like my favourite thing which is yoghurt with a grated apple blueberries and different nuts different type of nuts what a granola or just different No, no, no, just no, no, no, granola, no, no sugar in the morning. Okay. I think that's quite important. Oh, really? Yeah, okay. Yeah, no sugar in the morning, because, you know, I had too many years with, like, 10 espresso and with three spoons of sugar in it, and so that... Are you just going to cut it here? Yes. And then I'm just going to... Should I help you? Yes. Okay. But I think cut the ends off and I'll put the other... Let's have a look.

48:14Here. Let's have a look. Just do the ends anyway. Right, you get your guests working. It looks amazing. I've got too many. Right, let me... All right, then you put two on there, and I'm putting these back in. And we can have more in a minute. Georgia, can I serve you some of this? Really lovely crust that you made. Yeah, I'm not going on Celebrity MasterChef, clearly. Not doing bloody lamb. Not getting the gig. You want a bit of crust? Yes, please, thank you. I don't understand this, because I've done this before, and I'm... I think your oven's fucked. No, it isn't, John. It's so hot. I think that last time you seared it a little bit more.

48:52Maybe. Because you see, like, if you seared it a little bit more, then there will be, like, a sign there. That's enough, thanks. You didn't sear it enough. Yeah, you didn't sear it enough. There's a spoon. Did you find the spoon? Thank you. Fantastic. All right. Let's have a taste. OK, let's deliver a Celebrity MasterChef judge note. It tastes gorgeous. Crust is nice. Really crispy. Good. It is rare, but it's warm all the way through, so it's not... Yeah, it's not the end of the world. It's really tasty, man. Yeah, it really is. That crust is lovely. Do you like it? Really do. What do you have to do, I think, next time?

49:35Yeah. Sear it longer. No, yeah, sear it a little bit longer. Put a little bit more butter into that. It sticks a little bit more when you mix it together. And those potatoes are delicious. I love them. Jersey oil. with some asparagus. Yeah, I do remember when there was such a celebration when I came to England to work, my first job was the Savoy. And so you get educated on great British classic, grouse on the 6th, was that the 12th, the glorious 12th. And one of the things that was when the Jersey Royal would arrive and then we would cook them steam and it was just such a great thing. Where do you get your truffle from?

50:20I get my truffle, at the moment, so white or black truffle? Black truffle. Black truffle, I get it from near Norcia, in this place called San Pietro al Pettine. And here, between Norcia and Assisi, so Umbria. This place is beautiful, San Pietro al Pettine. It's on the way, you know, San Francis from Assisi used to walk to Rome. He walked, four times he walked to Rome. And in San Pietro Petti is where you spend the first night after walking 35 or 40 kilometres from there. And it's just a magic, magic place. And the truffle is delicious. Can I ask, where are some of your favourite spots in the UK or London?

51:03I know you live in London. That you would go and have a guaranteed fabulous meal? I'm really local. i love the idea that you just get out the house and walk yeah to a restaurant that you have a nice meal and then you walk home i love that when you start to have to have a cab and a car and these and that it starts to be a less of a natural sort of idea for me so i love this place in north london and it's called The Perky. It's a pub in Kentish Town. Right. And there is a very talented young chef there, which his name is... Ben Allen. Ben Allen. That's fantastic, Plexi. Thank you. It's Ben Allen.

51:51And he cooks a lot. A lot of it, he cooks on fire. So he has a very small kitchen with very little sort of... He has three live fires, so one grill. And like a jasper and another sort of different grill. So two different grills. And a lot of the stuff comes from there and it's delicious. What it makes is... I never had a bad meal in the last two or three years that we've been there. You go there, it's a pub. You know. Darling, help yourself. I think they're all right. What's up on the time? You used to be able to get a table. Now it's almost impossible. Unless you book. This is really nice though, Mum.

52:32It's really lovely and light and fresh. You know I like it to go well. It goes well. Look, it's really nice, really flavoursome. But your crust as well is very nice. It really does make a difference. You're very sweet. What was the last exciting thing that you tried that wasn't a beating heart of a rattlesnake? You heard about that. Yeah. Was it delicious? It was delicious, huh? It was incredible And it pulsed in your mouth Where were you? Thailand Crikey, I'm not eating that when we go Did you pay for it or they paid you? Did it come with sauce? No, no, it just comes like, you know I think I saw it, I saw somebody else eating it In some kind of video somewhere And I thought that's what I wanted It's for Anthony Bourdain moment I think that's what I saw the first time Probably Probably.

53:32See, I'm going for his, like, dirty martini recommendation in Bali. I'm not going for the rattlesnake. But, you know, never say never. What is a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere? Definitely, you know, it's like there is few pastas that they like. They're just so ingrained. It's like gnocchi with ragu sauce. It's something that, you know, my grandmother used to cook in. And I love the fact that she used to cook it for my granddad at 12 o 'clock. And then she would keep them there in the sauce for us to come home from school at one. And then when we come back, she'll refry them.

54:10And so they become a little bit crispy. Oh, delicious. And so that was really like, well, it's one of those things that like when we do the gnocchi and when we do them, you know, I really feel like I'm still there in that. I remember that kitchen. I remember that table that was red and I remember the knives and she used to cut them. And I remember those things. How old was she? Was she old when she died? Yeah, she was 100. You see? I had two grandmothers. One she dies and she was 100 and the other 103. Wow. Crikey, you're going to make old bones. Let's hope so. Yeah, that is old. 100 and 103. Yeah, they haven't done much in their life.

54:54They relax. Yeah, you probably had too much stress. Making Maki was the most stressful thing. Making sure that everything was ready by 12 o 'clock. My granddad would want to have lunch at 12 o 'clock. No one minute late, no one minute before. So how much time do you spend at the restaurant? At the moment, you know, we close Locanda. Yeah, I know, but you're at the National Gallery. Yeah, we're at the National Gallery. So is it open in the evening? No, only on Friday and Saturday. And only till 10.30. Oh, that's nice. Not too antisocial. So then you go clubbing afterwards in Soho. I think that the club in time, the club in years are gone.

55:33I remember Riccioni. I used to go to Riccioni. You go to Riccioni to the club? No. Whisky-A-Go-Go. Really? It was the best place, me and Auntie Susan. Used to go clubbing at Whis... Or the Bat Caverna. There was another place called the Bat Caverna and Whisky-A-Go-Go in Riccioni. They're famous, those men, because the Romagnoli are the studs. They are the Italian studs. There were a lot of gorgeous Italian studs on Vespas. You heard the sound? And they all spend nine months of the year up on their villages. And then suddenly they're three months. Oh, my God. When all the tourists come, you can see them coming down the mountain.

56:09On their Vespas, yeah. On their Vespas. And you know what their intention is. You know what they come down for. Meet a cute girl, yeah. Are you ready for some pudding? I would love some pudding. Okay. Right, hon, let me get this. Oh, my God. This looks so pretty, Mum. Oh, that is the kind of dessert that I like. Okay, good. So it's a pavlova with pistachio and cream and then just strawberries and fruit. And I bought, because you're a Michelin star chef, I pushed the boat out. A bit of flowers. Flowers. Edible ones. Edible flowers. Would you like a little? Do you want to help yourself? No, no, I'll have as much as you think that I deserve.

56:53I think you deserve a big piece after the raw thing. No, it wasn't raw. It was delicious. Look, we ate it all. There was only bone left. Right, let's see if this works. That looks gorgeous, Mum. You are good at a pavlova, Mum, I have to say. Oh, and it's got some pistachio on it as well. Thank you. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's nice. This is great. This was suggested To my mum on a sun lounger On Thursday She was going to do a different pudding for you And this lovely lady's sex My god it's such a long time you've been thinking about Yeah of course I've been thinking about you all week I'm so honoured about it Thank you I was going to do raspberry tiramisu But it might have offended you This is delicious mum Do you like it?

57:48Yeah Oh my god But pistachio is wonderful. Yeah, pistachio is one of those perfect nuts, isn't it? And it's also so healthy for you. This is top five. Okay. It really is. Presentation is fantastic. Flavour is brilliant. I am slightly over the top, but I don't care. I like them. Yeah, you could be a little bit more conservative with the flour. I could. You bought them and you just stuck them all in. I bought them. I thought, I'm not using them. I'm not using them tomorrow. Here they go today. How did you know? Oh, you came out. And they were three pounds. No! I'm not going to leave them in the bloody fridge and not eat them.

58:31Do you like football, Giorgio? No, I prefer motorbikes. Oh, okay. So who's the famous Italian? Oh, Fangio, obviously. There's a guy called Valentino Rossi. Rossi? Oh, my God, he was so handsome. Gorgeous. What was he? Oh, the motorbiker. He was a motorbiker. Yeah, but Valentino, such a great name. And he was handsome. He was handsome. So handsome. And he was nine-time world champion. Yeah. Nine times. So do you get your leathers on and you go motorbiking? Not anymore, no. I'm not allowed. Between insurance and these and that. Yeah, I understand that. Not even a Vespa when you're down in Puglia.

59:12When I'm in Puglia, I have a Vespa, then I'm allowed to drive around, to go in the morning for shopping and things like that. But it's not like a motorbike, is it? It's not my commotor. I'm sorry. But it's the best thing to get plasty on the back and go for a little swing with the Vespa. It's just the best. It's so gorgeous. It's fantastic, isn't it? Yeah. And sometimes you go, oh, it's so dangerous. It's so dangerous. Yes, but going up and down the stairs is very dangerous as well. It does feel romantic, doesn't it? Mm. Yeah. It feels very special in Italy to drive a Vespa with your girlfriend.

59:43Absolutely. I was the girl that always wanted to be on the back. Definitely. I'm sure you were, Lenny. I was, darling. Giorgio Locatelli, you've been such a fantastic guest. I do feel like after Celebrity MasterChef comes out, which we're so excited that you, no doubt you will be a fantastic judge if the rack of lamb is anything to go by. But I really do think you need to do a travel log, like you need to do a travel series. On a motorbike. We won't tell anyone. We'll get special insurance. Yeah, we must get a special insurance. But thank you so much. Do it, Lenny. Oh, my God. Don't be good. You could be in that little one on the side.

1:00:26I'll get in the side. If I can move my hip to get in. After you have your hip, actually, you can get on the back as well. Okay, I'll be getting on the back, yeah. I can't get my leg up at the moment, yeah. But thank you so, so much. Well, thank you for inviting me for dinner. You're a legend. Usually, Chef never gets invited for dinner, do they? No, I know. I know, well, I know. raw meat but thank you best of luck with MasterChef thank you very much mum that was so good such a pleasure to open your house and let people in is always a very you know not many people does it so thank you for learning it's a great honour to be here no oh thank you

1:01:18Giorgio Locatelli is suave, kind, cool. Handsome. Yeah, as you told his wife when they left. He's so handsome. He was so lovely. Gorgeous man. I loved hearing him. He reminded me of Anthony Borda. Oh, did you know Anthony? No, but the way he looked, he was just so... Oh, he was great. He was such a lovely man. What a guy. just loved hearing him talk about the history of food and the passion he has and but he's been brought up oh it's been like his life all the way every second of that see we need his recipe book to live to 101 and 103 i um we need to not do five podcasts in a week i think then we'll be able to live um no giorgio locatelli you're amazing we can't wait to see you as the judge on Celebrity MasterChef.

1:02:13He's going to be... With Gracie. I think he can be... I'm sure he's kind. If that's... I mean, I felt like he was being firm with you, but there was still kindness. Firm? He was too firm about the firmness of the... Well, also, yeah. I don't know. Well, I think your oven's not working. It was working. Because that took 40 minutes as opposed to... Fine. I underseared it. Mum, that pud, everyone should do this summer. It's the best pudding I've ever made. Victoria. Thank you, Victoria. Victoria, you are amazing. You've changed my life. Because that has just been gifted to the Table Manners community as the perfect summer party pudding.

1:02:53Maybe we could put the recipe up on the old notes or something? I'm slightly sad he knew I'd overdone it with the flowers, but he knew exactly why I did it. I didn't want to leave the rest of them in the fridge. They were going to die and they looked so pretty. It looked fab. It did look great. It was expressive and generous. and I loved it. Thank you to Giorgio Locatelli. Thanks, Mom, for cooking. I'll be on the next one. Okay. And we'll see you next week for more Table Manners.

1:03:34Agents are getting smarter every day, but even the smartest agents get stuck without the right context and the right tools. That's where Notion comes in. With the recent launch of custom agents, Notion became the collaborative AI workspace where teams and agents work side by side. And now the new developer platform is turning that workspace into infrastructure developers can build on. What's interesting is this isn't just about plugging into one tool. It's about bringing all your agents into one shared workspace where your whole team can actually collaborate. You can connect outside systems, sync in context, trigger workflows, and even orchestrate agents like Claude, Codex, or your own in-house agents directly inside Notion.

1:04:13Learn about Notion's developer platform today at Notion.com slash True Developer. That's all lowercase letters, Notion.com slash True Developer. To try Notion's developer platform today. And when you use the link, you're supporting our show. That's Notion.com slash True Developer. Notion.com slash True Developer.

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