Hannah Fry

0:03Lennie Ware: Hello and welcome to Table Manners, I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here in my kitchen with my mum. How are you? I've got a pain in my bottom.

0:10Jessie Ware: I've got a bit of a physical situation.

0:14Lennie Ware: Got it. Well thank you for being here. You're very lucky I am here darling. I thought we were going to say you're very welcome but yeah no I am lucky. I'm lucky you're here. I'm lucky that you do the podcast. I'm lucky that you keep coming back for more. I'm lucky that you're my mum. Yeah. I cooked for lots of people yesterday. Yeah. And something that I want to speak to Hannah Fry, our guest today, who is the cleverest woman in the world. She seems to be. Do you want to give Hannah a bit of an introduction, actually? Well, I've admired her for a long time. Where did you first see her? Have I got news for you?

0:45Jessie Ware: I watched on Have I Got News For You, but I'd heard her voice on Curious Cases. It's a radio programme she presents with Daria O 'Brien. and it's very interesting. It's all about science. But she makes science really accessible. She's also really a gorgeous woman. Seems to be the cleverest woman I've ever come across. And she's very funny and have I got news for you.

1:09Lennie Ware: She's brilliant online too. Like she'll teach you on TikTok how to open a jar when you can't get that jar open by simply breathing out. I also have listened to her new podcast, The Rest is Science, that she presents with Michael Stevens. which is, I mean, I'm not a science head but, you know, they're talking about mosh pits in there.

1:30Jessie Ware: She kind of applies maths to everyday life like romantic attachments, all sorts of things. I think people that do maths are so clever, don't you?

1:40Lennie Ware: Well, it's just not my thing. No, I know. And I've never been good at it. No, but she's made it kind of sexy. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure she's really sick of the kind of Carol Vorderman comparisons. yeah but she is a remarkable woman that's doing so much and we've been wanting her for a very long time desperate we've managed to get her yeah I'm cooking I'm making because I had lots of people over yesterday I've gone quite easy breezy today well I say that I've had two mistakes in the kitchen which are kind of scientific experiments I guess mistakes I wanted to make a chocolate mousse yeah i made like a load for my friends yesterday and i was making enough for today and i stupidly because i'm impatient added some cream to melted chocolate and it meant immediately seized up and created a ganache it went into a paste that's weird and i still put it in with the egg whites and it didn't loosen up it's just gone very no it did it was fine but then you put the fridge and then it's just like hardened so it's neither a mousse nor a ganache it's somewhere in between and it's a little bit grainy and I'm really sad and then I made something from our cookbook that's a chocolate mousse tart because I had it in my head that I needed to make a chocolate mousse and redeem myself okay so I've done our chocolate mousse tart which is like a digestive chocolate butter base yeah and then you do a kind of chocolate mousse with a bit of espresso instant granules and then you set it and it's probably going to set for about half an hour to less but it'll be fine and then from so working backwards we've got the chocolate mousse tart and then i've done alice and roman's i've seen it going about ed smith rocket and squash he's my guy that does good eggs who i love who i did the delicious doll of he like tries out different recipes from different books and i love alice and roman anyway thought it was banging he said this was banging and this is her caramelized shallot caramelized shallots with anchovies and like a full tube of tomato puree you just like melt down the shallots with this garlic sliced garlic and you put the anchovies in you put the puree in and it's like a kind of shallot paste delicious I had some with my eggs this morning delish I'm just gonna do that with bucatini the one with the whole I love that yeah and then you put a bit of parsley and garlic on the top and I've got some sourdough that has risen good and herb salad and then I actually because I over ordered I've got really delicious natura vine tomatoes and I've got some buffalo mozzarella so we'll have that too also I made a focaccia yesterday I was so excited by the pillowyness of my focaccia, I set about making one for today.

4:33Lennie Ware: Didn't work. Why did my focaccia mix not work, yet my sourdough mix has worked?

4:40Jessie Ware: I'm going to ask her about my bottom. Everything. Anything scientific, we'll just ask her everything.

4:46Lennie Ware: Do you think she's just like, why did I become so clever?

4:49Jessie Ware: Yeah.

4:50Lennie Ware: Or do you think she's the greatest person to have on a pub quiz group? Is there anything Hannah Fry can't do? We'll find out in Hannah Fry on Table Manners coming up.

5:07Lennie Ware: Hannah Fry was getting straight into it. We are thrilled to have you.

5:11Hannah Fry: Oh, not as thrilled as I am to be here.

5:13Lennie Ware: Do you do your own hair? Can I just ask?

5:15Hannah Fry: Yes.

5:16Lennie Ware: It's gorgeous. Shut up.

5:17Hannah Fry: I did. Yeah, I do.

5:18Lennie Ware: Is there a mathematical equation of how you get a good blowout? Because that's incredible.

5:23Hannah Fry: I mean, look, it's my thing. It's a Dyson. It's an Air App.

5:26Lennie Ware: Do you use the Air App?

5:27Hannah Fry: Yeah, I use the Air App. And then pin it afterwards. That's the secret.

5:30Lennie Ware: Babe, that's an amazing blowout.

5:32Hannah Fry: Thank you so much. I honestly...

5:33Lennie Ware: You should be a new ambassador for Dyson.

5:35Hannah Fry: I genuinely think my career wouldn't have gone half as well if it wasn't for my hair. And I mean the mathematical side as well, by the way. I think it's like... I'm riding a tidal wave of success thanks to this stuff. Really? The colour is gorgeous.

5:51Jessie Ware: Thank you.

5:52Lennie Ware: It's fabulous. Is it bottle? No! Shut up! I know! Not even like a Stacey Doodley bottle?

5:57Hannah Fry: No! I won't try and find a route anywhere, my friend.

6:00Lennie Ware: Do you not even have greys?

6:02Hannah Fry: Like little ones round by my ears. So I like cover those up, tiny little bit there. But that's it. I don't touch this. Wow. Every now and then. Congratulations.

6:11Lennie Ware: All your, you know, your PhDs and everything. It is gorgeous.

6:15Hannah Fry: No, no, no. Of all of the unimportant things, hair is the most important. Of course it is. It's so important. Of course it is.

6:21Lennie Ware: It's so important. Anyway, how are you? How was your weekend?

6:24Hannah Fry: Really good. Really good. It was my daughter's birthday. Oh, that day. Yeah, it was very sweet. How old is she? She's nine. Oh, same as Jessie. Oh, really?

6:31Lennie Ware: She started being a bit hormonal.

6:33Hannah Fry: Yes. Oh, my gosh. Yes. There was, yes.

6:36Lennie Ware: How did the birthday party go?

6:38Hannah Fry: It was really good. It was really good. We haven't done the, like, friends' birthday party, so it was just family yesterday. But, you know, I think she was awake at 5am. There's, like, always a lot of sort of over-excitement and stuff. So there was, like, a few moments of sort of having to pull her to one side and be like, okay, you know, we need to calm her down.

6:56Lennie Ware: Okay.

6:56Hannah Fry: When's your daughter's birthday?

6:57Lennie Ware: she was nine in september got you so she's kind of same school yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah yeah um is she good at maths no oh my goodness but like i feel quite bad for her why because i think

7:12Hannah Fry: well okay so i what i didn't want to do is i didn't want to sort of like hot house her i didn't want to do what what my mum did to me which is like force her can you explain because i know a

7:22Lennie Ware: little bit but like yeah what did your mum used to do to you on summer holidays okay so she um

7:29Hannah Fry: she's like she's she's this irish catholic right and i sort of think that um that irish catholics uh in general just like doing hard things because life should be suffering you know did you go to a convent she did go to a convent school yeah but you didn't no god thank god it It was a religious school, but it wasn't a convent, mercifully. And, yeah, so her idea was, you know, you just, you have to do as much torture stuff as you can. So she would, like, push the maths in particular. And there was one summer holiday when I was about 11 where she got a maths textbook at the beginning of the summer holiday and she was like, right, you're going to do a page of this every morning before you're allowed to go out and play.

8:10Did you hate her at that point?

8:12Lennie Ware: Or were you kind of like, yeah, I'm up for it?

8:15Hannah Fry: She's probably good at maths, so she didn't make... Like, was it...

8:18Lennie Ware: Had she seen something in you?

8:20Hannah Fry: I don't know. Because the thing is, I mean, I think that there is this like public perception that people who are good at maths are the ones who are sort of born to do it. You know, you come out of the womb that way. And if you're not, then that's what we think, don't we, Jessie? Yes. I don't think that's true, you know. I think it's more like running, right? So, OK, of course, people like Usain Bolt, born that way, you know, extraordinary. but you still get people who are like really good happy comfortable runners just because they want to do it just because they spend time doing it and they practice exactly and I think that's I think that's it's like sure if you go into like a math department of a posh university maybe those people will all have a natural ability that they're sort of you know have honed over the years but I do also think that it's like actually if you want to do it if you pay attention to it if you like enjoy puzzles and games the more you practice the better you get at it do you think

9:15Jessie Ware: there's a mass bit of your brain like your brain you know there's certain bits that's emotion so there's a mass bit that you can increase its power and like grow it like a muscle yeah um so i do

9:28Hannah Fry: think there is yes i do and definitely there's like times of my life where i've been more intensely doing something and i kind of sort of feel myself stronger in exactly the same way as you do when you sort of go to the gym but i actually i once made this program where they tried to find the maths bit of your brain and they put me in a scanner while i did sort of complicated math things there was a study that they'd done in advance of this i wasn't the only like participant but basically it's the visual part of your brain so if you think about it when it's patterns patterns exactly but it's like you're seeing them so if you think if i say to you i don't know something simple like okay what is eight plus four like 12 right thank you great thank you but in my head when I'm doing that I'm sort of seeing like that there's a gap that's left over by eight and ten and I'm sort of imagining that it's sort of filling in that slot no no hang on

10:21Lennie Ware: hang on go do it again again it's I don't know it's so I think okay if you say if you say eight

10:28Hannah Fry: plus four yeah yeah in my head what i'm doing is i'm sort of thinking okay well eight and ten there's like a gap of two so i'm sort of taking the four and i'm slotting it into that gap and then there's two left over i clearly don't have a maths brain because that isn't how do you do it

10:45Lennie Ware: in your head if i say i i rarely do it unless i have an accountant i just i became a singer so no but i'm interested by this idea that you're you're not sure if your daughter's as kind of naturally gifted as you, right? Well, not many people are, I'm sure. I'm positive. But I'm thinking about my nine-year-old daughter and thinking she's incredible at reading music. Right. But hates maths. And I'm like, hang on, that's a visual thing. Is it not? So should that not apply to then? Right, I see what you mean. Isn't there a theory that musicians are good at maths? Or is that something that we've read somewhere?

11:24Hannah Fry: No, no, no. I think that there is. Or I think maybe the other way around, that mathematicians are good musicians. are you good at music no okay right i've ruined it i'm sorry no it's okay so but how would you

11:34Jessie Ware: encourage someone who has potential but they're lacking confidence how do you i think it's confidence i think it's confidence too yeah so and girls aren't as confident as boys yeah absolutely

11:46Hannah Fry: yeah and there's loads of i mean there's loads of stuff that's been done looking into this because it's not just confidence confidence is sort of like oh i think i'm really great or whatever there's something more specific which is called self-efficacy which is basically if I give you a problem do you think you'll be able to solve that particular problem right and this is something you can measure you can get people to rate like oh I think I can you know I'll give myself a good chance of being able to solve it or not and with maths it's like the one subject above any other where that matters more than anything if you believe you can do it you are more likely to persevere and succeed this is what you've got to do give her confidence okay are you getting your daughter to do um maths books on holiday no absolutely not because that is a a complicated

12:36Lennie Ware: memory for you that feels like i think that's what it is okay there's a slightly more more nuanced

12:41Hannah Fry: answer right okay i think that one of the reasons why my my eldest daughter is not into maths is

12:47Jessie Ware: partly she's sort of rebelling a little bit i think because you know everyone around us is like

12:51Hannah Fry: oh your mummy the mathematician and so i think she's sort of like oh i'm just like i can't can't handle it um so i always think when people ask me questions how do you get your kids into maths i'm always like i'm the worst person to ask because my own daughter when you go to parents evening

13:06Jessie Ware: does the maths teacher kind of get very anxious when she sees you teacher is the english teacher

13:14Hannah Fry: when she talks about math no well i don't think so i like to think not um we will be feeding you

13:20Lennie Ware: are you hungry yes okay i'm gonna go and put the pasta on but in the meantime let's find out about who was around the dinner table when you were younger and what's a memorable dish okay so uh

13:30Hannah Fry: i uh i should confess i'm not a foodie you guys that's do you like eating i mean who doesn't like

13:38Lennie Ware: eating like it's so it's not okay that's fine but you you eat to live rather than live to eat like

13:44Jessie Ware: us yes i think i do i think i do it's not just fuel for us uh we are consumed by food yeah what

13:53Lennie Ware: did you what did you have um for breakfast i haven't eaten breakfast neither have i

13:57Hannah Fry: is that because you forgot or you just couldn't be often i forget and jesse never forgets i mean if you don't get me wrong at the same time i will like happily demolish an entire bag of haribo so it's not like oh yeah she loves sweets the tangvastics oh the tangvastics i would have thought you were a star mix person well thank you very much um you clearly have a

14:22Jessie Ware: higher opinion than i deserve but they're just out they're a bit shy what is it about redheads and uh sweets jerry halliwell came on here and it was her last supper really pick and mix yeah

14:35Hannah Fry: actually i have to say you guys i was listening to some of your episodes this morning my goodness me your roster of yes it's incredible you guys are amazing i have had and this is when i add

14:46Lennie Ware: where i add that you have been the hardest looking yeah ever yeah ever to get because

14:51Jessie Ware: you've been top of my list oh bless you and i kept please and they've said we've got your award in heaven now i'm sorry we've got hannah it's because i've got about seven jobs that's genuinely the reason i'm so sorry what are you doing okay so i am a professor at cambridge university are you still i'm still a professor oh my god um i also have a podcast the rest of

15:17Hannah Fry: science yeah that i do um twice a week oh my gosh uh i also work with google deep mind i've been working with them for years and years and years about artificial intelligence i'm also supposed to be oh my gosh writing a book that's due in two and a half months and i've only just started it

15:34Jessie Ware: Okay.

15:35Hannah Fry: I mean, there's a lot going on. I've got confidence in you. Oh, and there's also TV programmes, so I forgot all about that whole extra career.

15:41Jessie Ware: Are you doing any more? Have I got news for you? Yes, probably. It's my favourite. Thank you. You're very good on it.

15:47Hannah Fry: Oh, that's very kind of you. Is it scripted? A bit. The host's stuff is, so the stuff that you do to camera, that's unscripted, that's all.

15:58Jessie Ware: But you have to respond to their...

16:00Hannah Fry: Oh, yeah, that's all unscripted. Yeah.

16:02Jessie Ware: yeah and they really genuinely don't know what's coming yeah they see the um you go in and you have

16:08Hannah Fry: like because because you have to be a panelist first before you host it so as a panelist maybe

16:13Jessie Ware: uh I don't know have you been on both sides been on both sides okay oh my gosh hosting is so much

16:17Hannah Fry: easier is it so much easier yeah um and I think partly because I'm like a mini control freak right so it's like knowing what's coming up makes it much easier okay um but when you when you go on as a panelist you turn up maybe an hour before the recording and they show you the missing words round so they will show you those headlines in advance and they'll show you the caption competition that they did yeah that's it that's all you get okay nothing else you get a bit of a chance to come up with something on yeah on those quick i mean yeah but you you've been a stand-up canadian

16:51Jessie Ware: No, no, no. That's so good. We've read that. No. But you did stand-up comedy.

16:57Hannah Fry: I did, yeah, but like maybe five times.

17:00Jessie Ware: Okay. But you must have fancied yourself as someone that could make people laugh.

17:05Hannah Fry: No, no. I think it's, no, and I almost feel like sort of struggling to breathe with the embarrassment of it, of even suggesting that that might be the case. No, it was that, so I had a friend of mine who was running a stand-up comedy night. and was trying to do, I mean hilariously, a science-themed stand-up comedy night, which as you can imagine was not a roaring six-inch challenge. Anyway, he basically bullied me into doing it.

17:35Jessie Ware: Yeah.

17:36Hannah Fry: And I have this philosophy, which is that I would always rather sort of meet a challenge, give something a go and be terrible at it, than be, you know, sort of in my old age, wondering all of the opportunities that I turned down. So I was like, okay, you know what? I'll just, I'll give it a go. So I did it and I must have spent, honestly, a month writing this thing. It was like a five minute set and I spent way too much time on it. But it was actually genuine. I was actually quite proud of it in the end.

18:07Jessie Ware: Okay, good.

18:08Hannah Fry: So then there were a few other gigs that I took it to. But then what happened was someone who was watching, someone who just happened to be in the audience of one of those gigs, they were organizing a TED event a TED TED conference yeah so they were like oh do you want to come and do a TED talk I was like I mean again same philosophy why not and then for that TED talk I wrote something completely new the mathematics of love and that ended up being in the top five most TED talks most watched TED talks of the year so that was basically how everything started so the mathematics of love exactly but i will say i am much more comfortable standing on stage where people do not expect me to be funny okay then i have an extraordinary so you've done

18:52Jessie Ware: all these different things you're not in the frame for presenting strictly as well are you no no you could be you could say who's going to win and who's not going to win and the probability I know exactly calculating it so the mathematics of dating dating or love of love yeah and what did

19:12Hannah Fry: you come up with um so it was uh the the sort of the funny thing about this was that I recorded it when I was engaged I think just before I got married right so I'd like I was so sort of full of success of like oh I've I've managed to successfully navigate dating I've found the person for me isn't this great so like has all of these formulas some of which had had something cute to them um and sort of standing on stage being like guys let me tell you all about this uh 10 years later I'm now divorced so yeah didn't work out yeah so basically don't listen to anything I have to say that's that's but you're back in the dating game I was yeah I'm not now not now I found I found a very excellent human oh good good good really lovely man called Ollie

19:59Jessie Ware: How many children are in your family?

20:01Hannah Fry: I've got two sisters.

20:02Jessie Ware: Are they as clever as you?

20:07Hannah Fry: Yes, the older one is, yes.

20:09Jessie Ware: What does she do?

20:10Hannah Fry: I think the younger one is as well, but she was dyslexic. So she, you know, it wasn't like, she wasn't pushed as much, I guess. My older sister, she also did a maths degree.

20:21Jessie Ware: Yeah. And, but she is, I don't know, she's worked out how to live, if that makes sense, right?

20:28Hannah Fry: Like she is very much live to work, don't work to live. Yeah. She like clocks off at exactly the right time. She has like hobbies all over the place. She's like really sociable. She's just, she's, she's got it sorted. She's like, she hasn't made, you know, like her mathematical ability, her identity. You know what I mean? Why do you think you're so driven? I don't know.

20:52Jessie Ware: Are you the middle one?

20:53Hannah Fry: I am the middle one. I am the middle one. Oh, you have to.

20:56Jessie Ware: Yeah. so who did the cooking at your house my mum did and was she no okay is she she's irish she's irish

21:06Hannah Fry: so is it irish fair well yeah but do you know what irish fair is it's boiled ham and boiled potatoes and that's it exactly boil anything that's that's essentially her yeah um i've said this like in a newspaper article before i think the first time i said it she was a bit annoyed but you know that's fine but she um oh she's like she's not a good cook at all she's not okay at all she doesn't um again it's like it's not part of her it's not part of the thing did she work as well she did not no she was a stay-at-home mom yeah and pushing her children yeah just pushing her children boiling me yeah what does your dad do my dad worked in a factory yeah um he was fitting hydraulic lifts onto trucks oh wow yeah it's like super working class family and i think that actually quite a lot of people think because um of my fake accent we've all got fake accents i know exactly um but no yeah like super working class family

22:03Jessie Ware: and so it was mostly boiled anything yeah what was your celebration meal if it was someone's

22:10Hannah Fry: birthday look at that um we might go to a beef eater do you remember them oh yeah beef eater Yeah, that was, if it was a really special occasion.

22:18Lennie Ware: So this is lunch. It's Alison Roman's caramelised shallot and anchovy pasta. It has got a bit of chilli in it, Mum.

22:26Jessie Ware: Okay.

22:27Lennie Ware: And then we just got a herb salad with lemon and oil and then mozzarella and delicious tomatoes. And Jessie's homemade bread.

22:35Hannah Fry: Oh, my Lord, this looks...

22:37Lennie Ware: I didn't think this one through, doing spaghetti whilst doing a pod. No, don't worry about it. So good luck with everyone. Don't worry about it. It's not exactly Lady and the Tramp, is it?

22:45Hannah Fry: Do you cook for your kids? Yeah. Yeah, I do. There's a friend of mine called Chris Van Tiluken. He wrote this book called Super Processed People.

22:53Lennie Ware: I love Chris.

22:54Hannah Fry: He's amazing. We were on Sunday brunch. Have you had him on?

22:56Lennie Ware: We've been desperate. It's Operation Ouch.

23:00Hannah Fry: He's another person who's doing seven jobs.

23:03Lennie Ware: I nearly got tickets for their boxing day. Oh, yeah. They're amazing, those guys.

23:08Hannah Fry: Aren't they amazing?

23:09Lennie Ware: They are like going to make my son be a doctor. Yeah. I love that. I love that program so much.

23:14Hannah Fry: It's so good.

23:15Lennie Ware: So Chris is your mate.

23:16Hannah Fry: Chris is my friend. He wrote this book, Super Processed People.

23:19Lennie Ware: Yes.

23:19Hannah Fry: And I just think he, you know, really crystallized the problem with processed food. So I try to just always cook from scratch for the girls.

23:31Jessie Ware: Yeah.

23:31Hannah Fry: Wow. I mean, it doesn't work that often, but like I try, I try. So yesterday, for example, we had, when it was my daughter's birthday, she wanted burgers and chips. So it was like literally from scratch. Smash burgers. I didn't make the bread, but everything else was made, like hand-cut fries. That's amazing. Yeah. Did she eat it? I'll put in effort, you know. Did she eat it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. It was great, yeah. Turns out doing burgers for 12 people is actually an effort. It's a lot. It's stressful getting good timings right.

24:03Lennie Ware: Cooking them, yeah. Did you use a barbecue? Oh, God, and then the kitchen's all bloody spattered. spatter oh mate did the fire alarm go off no have you got any bloody hack about how to not make my

24:15Hannah Fry: fire alarm go off apart from like not put the batteries in wait where is it up there it's a absolute nightmare this is a fluid dynamics problem oh my god it's there yeah is that meaning it's going to go off more yeah why oh look at her the brain is working this is my my phd was in fluids oh really yeah so basically like aerodynamics

24:37Jessie Ware: we know about how you do air conditioning yeah right that's fantastic love the summer

24:41Hannah Fry: thank you thank you yeah i haven't recorded any videos for ages but i have one for the winter about how to warm up your hands oh um do you want it yeah okay so basically you if you hold your hands like try and make your try and bend your hand back as far as you can and then hold your arms down straight yeah right when your hands get really cold in winter when you can't feel your fingers this is like the quickest way to get blood into them is to hold them like that and then pump your shoulders basically and you can almost feel the i don't know i can i can almost feel the blood yeah the blood go down your fingers but it really really quickly literally everyone's saying it this is hilarious and then you rub your nose that's brilliant you have to tell the kids at school yeah do you go out to eat a lot you live locally yeah yeah yeah where's your favorite restaurant um there was a place do you remember the sparrow i never went but why did it close i don't know i think it was covid oh it's such a shame apparently it was amazing it was amazing um i quite like going to um there's a couple of little places in dettford oh yeah under the arches which ones oh do you um there's the taco one that's amazing taco taco i think it's called okay um but like really beautiful fresh tacos really incredible there's uh broccoli as well It's got some really good places.

25:58Hannah Fry: Yardsell Pizza. Blimey, I love that place. Oh, my gosh. Very good.

26:03Lennie Ware: Have you tried Dinner for 100, though?

26:04Hannah Fry: No.

26:05Lennie Ware: What's that? They're lovely boys. And the pizza's incredible. Please, can you go? Okay, do. I will. This is going down better now. Yeah.

26:15Hannah Fry: With the food.

26:15Lennie Ware: It's a table wine. It's like, you know, it will do the job.

26:20Jessie Ware: I think it tasted, maybe it was a different one. Maybe was it the second bottle?

26:24Hannah Fry: No, I toasted fine the other night. Do you have wines that you go back to over and over again? I do. Jessie loves Chardonnay.

26:32Lennie Ware: I love Chardonnay, but I've gone off. I can't drink red and butter Chardonnay anymore. It actually makes me feel a bit funny. Too syrupy.

26:39Hannah Fry: Do you have wines that you go back to?

26:44Hannah Fry: Yeah, there is. Actually, I tend to drink... This makes it sound like a massive knob. If I drink wine at home, I tend to drink Prosecco.

26:54Lennie Ware: Why does that make you sound like a knob? I don't know, just like, you know,

26:57Hannah Fry: I'll just have my everyday drinking Prosecco.

26:59Jessie Ware: I think that's fab. Is that right?

27:01Hannah Fry: Yeah.

27:01Jessie Ware: Do you like Prosecco? Well, obviously.

27:03Hannah Fry: Do you prefer it to champagne? No. No, but it's more affordable.

27:08Jessie Ware: But you can drink it every day.

27:09Hannah Fry: I think if I was drinking champagne every day, that really would make me look like a knob, wouldn't it?

27:13Lennie Ware: The thing is, with the Prosecco, you're going to have to finish the bottle. Yeah. Unless you've got a hack for how to...

27:18Hannah Fry: Of course. Okay. Please.

27:21Lennie Ware: Come on. Hannah Fry, give us the hack How to keep your fears fizzy.

27:24Hannah Fry: It's not. Oh, you've just got one of those things. Yeah, but also you can put a spoon in.

27:29Lennie Ware: Does that work?

27:30Hannah Fry: I don't know. So I want to look into it because I think... My sister said that there was a reason and I didn't listen when she told me. But I do trust her as a person. Okay. So I'm going to say yes with confidence, enough confidence that you believe it too, but then you can secretly look into it later. Okay, fine.

27:49Jessie Ware: Would that be the drink on your last supper?

27:51Hannah Fry: yeah that or just beer frankly oh you like beer frankly i know what beer just like really boring beer just really boring if we're going to the pub together what beer are you ordering okay local ale or no all right what what i think for the last supper i think it's going to be indian okay um and you know that thing where you go to an indian and they bring out the cobras and they're really cold and you're like eating poppetons it just like just goes well with the curry

28:22Jessie Ware: what's the name of our favorite indian gana oh gana patty have you been there what's that one called in gana patty in peckham oh it's the best indian food i think of ever tasting yeah so my um

28:35Hannah Fry: my ex-husband was half indian and his mum oh my gosh her cooking i cannot even describe to you like it sort of ruined Indian restaurants for me because there's nothing like home cooked food oh my gosh it was incredible but she would do these things it's like the one thing that we fought over didn't actually fight at all but the one thing that we were like had a sort of jokey fight over when we got divorced was her was the recipes that I'd written down that she'd given me yeah amazing food sounds like you get on well with her yeah yeah yeah really well So we've got the cobra, the cold cobra. Yeah, not necessarily a cobra, but just a very, very cold beer.

29:19Lennie Ware: What's on the order of the Indian? Okay.

29:23Hannah Fry: So it's homemade. There's a biryani, which I have learned how to cook. Am I hard to cook my own last supper?

29:33Lennie Ware: I mean, this is really bold considering you say you're not really into food. I'm into this. It's kind of wild, but I'm up for it.

29:39Hannah Fry: Okay, but maybe what I mean when I say I'm not into food is that, like, you know, when people are really into food and it's these little delicate bites that are sort of like this. That's not you. No, I just want a shot. I want to shove my face full of carbs. Okay. Right? I want, like, there to be no limit to the amount that I mean. Okay, great. That's the situation I want to be in. So there'll be that. There'll be the biryani. There's also a cabbage curry with coconut in it. Cabbage curry. Oh, my God, it's so good.

30:04Jessie Ware: Is that what your mother-in-law would like?

30:05Hannah Fry: Yeah, and look, all of this, I'm going to be honest with you, is what she's taught me to make.

30:08Jessie Ware: This is great.

30:09Hannah Fry: Yeah. And then actually there was a sort of a kind of a chicken and gravy recipe that a friend of mine found in a really, really old cookbook. And I've been cooking that for years. So I think I'd probably have that too.

30:25Lennie Ware: Is that Indian or is that separate?

30:27Hannah Fry: Indian as well. Yeah. But like the sort of Indian gravy, you know. What's an Indian gravy? So they call it gravy. I don't know why. But it's like you cook the chicken separately. so you sort of like marinate it for ages and then and then you um like on a high heat get it to sort of sear and spice it's beautiful um but then separately you make this sort of like base with onions and garlic and then tomato and yogurt and like you know really really slowly yeah

30:53Lennie Ware: absolutely delicious i would like these recipes yeah okay this is great and then what the biryani

30:58Hannah Fry: she's good to give them to the pictures of them i've got photographs of them because that was the that was the deal right was that you can take a photograph of it um but they're like friendly with his mom yeah yeah yeah she was also at my house yesterday yeah yeah it's really nice um but the photographs that i have are like there's like butter stains on there yeah you know right i mean that's basically the secret to indian cooking right it's just like an unimaginable amount of fat ghee ghee like do you use ghee or just butter i do sometimes use ghee where'd you get ghee from you can buy it in like right in supermarkets now really yeah in lewisdham supermarket

31:30Jessie Ware: And what do you think the difference is between ghee and butter?

31:33Hannah Fry: You're asking the wrong gal here. I think it's that with butter, when you have it in the pan, it quite quickly starts turning brown. Whereas ghee is higher. Yeah. Higher temperature.

31:46Lennie Ware: Can you bake? Because you're a scientist and mathematician. No.

31:53Hannah Fry: Oh, okay.

31:54Lennie Ware: I mean, sure, I can whack a cake together.

31:56Hannah Fry: But I think I could take a scientist's approach to it. Okay. actually I have taken a scientist approach to Yorkshire puddings oh tell us because I'm hopeless at them come on so basically I've run different experiments with them I love that this is are you like kids I'm in the lab excuse me coat on I think the thing that makes the biggest difference is well two things one is the pan has to be and the oil in it especially has to be unbelievably hot. Like when you pour it in, it has to start sizzling immediately. Yeah. And then secondly, I think pre-making the batter

32:38Lennie Ware: and letting it still.

32:40Hannah Fry: Yes. And then, so I'd like make it maybe even the day before and let it go in the fridge and then bring it out and then temper it basically. And then.

32:47Lennie Ware: I saw something about these, this place in Manchester and I'm feel really bad that I can't remember the name of them, but they are known for their Yorkshire puddings and she made the batter the day before. Right. And she said that, that it was and just like boiling hot yeah recipe do you use um your own yeah okay doesn't cook though not big cook not not not but it's just the same of all three right that's all you do

33:12Hannah Fry: is just the same amount of milk flour and yeah really yeah oh i didn't know that by volume yeah

33:18Lennie Ware: whack it in did you know that two eggs would be the equivalent to yeah or like sometimes you're

33:24Hannah Fry: in a glass where you like you put the two eggs in a glass and then you work out how high it is and they just go and then

33:29Jessie Ware: oh wow

33:30Hannah Fry: I do also do pancakes for my kids every morning okay let's hear your

33:37Lennie Ware: pancake recipe

33:37Hannah Fry: I'm not that I just do it by eye now

33:40Lennie Ware: great are you using oats are you doing like the egg are you doing the kind of protein ones are you just doing like crepes what are you doing

33:46Hannah Fry: no I'm doing like crepes like crepes

33:48Lennie Ware: every morning

33:49Hannah Fry: yeah I know you're a good man and what do they have on them you're mad no meanwhile I'm like

33:54Lennie Ware: okay

33:55Jessie Ware: yeah

33:56Hannah Fry: sort of like flipping a pancake.

33:58Jessie Ware: And what do you have on the topping?

33:59Hannah Fry: Well, this is a moment of discussion at the moment. They have Nutella, but I sort of want to make it more fruit, to be honest. Yeah.

34:06Lennie Ware: I mean, to be fair, I did eggy bread this morning. I feel like we run a calf in the... Yeah, do you? But like, pancakes, that's time consuming, Hannah. I don't know if it is, though. No, it isn't, once you've got the batter made.

34:18Hannah Fry: I think eggy bread is more. No, it was,

34:21Lennie Ware: and I won't be doing it tomorrow.

34:23Hannah Fry: To be honest, it's about processed food right because i buy i make my own bread have a bread maker right and um i like make sure that i buy really nice flour that's like you know has a high yeah your bread looks delicious thank you is it sourdough yeah gorgeous have some um i i made a

34:42Lennie Ware: focaccia that didn't work out yesterday so this is we luckily i'd made two things so do you got the sourdough do you need it yourself yeah don't use the machine i don't have a machine no but I think you're probably very clever having a machine because do you make sourdough no no

34:59Hannah Fry: because I think you have to I don't know by the way you can need it in the yeah can you do a sourdough in your bread maker yeah and then just work it I think that's what I like about making it

35:10Lennie Ware: kind of the stretch and the fold and stuff really yeah and like hands not hurt though no because it's different it's not it's not like that right it's um and I now my tiktok is all just sourdough bakers telling me about how to like make my starter more that is really tasty it's soft as well it's beautiful oh thank you um do you use um dried yeast or active yeast dried yeast okay yeah what do you use well i use the starter which is kind of my little bit of bacteria that is cheating a little bit but this is my like my what i'm thinking here is like okay

35:47Hannah Fry: you buy bread from the supermarket it's just like literally full of shit is it yeah well it's just there was one thing that chris told me that is just so like this book's really like stayed with you yeah i yeah i should read it and then let me let me tell you this one thing about pringles okay so i'm sure they are delicious and they are no it's fine it's okay that they're delicious

36:09Lennie Ware: okay so a bag and bloody a tub and lanzarote go on no no it's okay it's not gonna it's not gonna

36:16Hannah Fry: tell me so so the the whole point about like our bodies are so perfectly tuned to what we're eating through literally millions of years of evolution right there's this thing about you know you um when you're craving something if you're like oh i really fancy some chocolate today it's probably like some tiny little molecule in the chocolate that your body knows that it needs right you're incredibly good at knowing and the thing about the way that we eat is that once it gets to a certain point in our intestinal system it releases a hormone that tells us that we're full okay um and that is like the way that it has always been and if you eat whole foods from scratch you will know when you're full the thing about pringles is that they are so processed they're basically pre-digested they're like macerated in a um in a lab and then reconstructed so that you pop you can't stop quite literally so what happens is when you eat them they literally dissolve before they reach the part in your body where your body sends out hormones saying thank you very much I'm full so you I mean it's quite literal you can you will never get full on them and like the thing is is that there's very clever people very clever scientists over many many years who've like had people coming in and testing their products and the thing that they they care most about when you like go in for a taste test is not like what's more delicious what did you enjoy more it's literally how much did you eat right like it's kind of like hacking our bodies against us and like optimizing for volume and so i think this is the thing about like cereal is another example cereal just like disintegrates again before it sort of hits the stomach cocoa pops whatever it is so i just don't really want them to kind of eat that sort of stuff so i would rather spend an extra 10 minutes in the kitchen like making pancakes from scratch because i know the flour's good i know it's good eggs like i know the milk is good whatever and then a bit of nutella um but then uh you know i don't know like have them just eat nonsense that's not real food you know yeah i never and this is not to shame anybody who's

38:23Lennie Ware: putting like a bowl of rice krispies because usually that's what my kids want but i just don't think it fills them up yeah that's my that's my thing i'm like i know you're not going to eat the lunch that they're going to give you so i may as well like i must be the only person in

38:35Jessie Ware: the world that doesn't think porridge fills you up i don't think porridge fills it never

38:39Hannah Fry: you have rolled oats yeah or what's the other one uh yeah jumbo milled i can't remember there's some there's some type that is fine basically like for our whole history we were we're supposed to eat stuff like you know like salad leaves right where it's like the the wall of the of the the cell of the salad is like so difficult for our bodies to get into like for our we have to like physically digest it and rip it apart to get to the nutrients inside and like if you are yeah if you're eating processed food you're just not doing any of that work by the way before you think that i'm like some kind of like super mom they eat crisps all the time right and like they eat biscuits and stuff it's not that they never have this stuff it's just like i try yeah um last

39:23Lennie Ware: supper so we've got the we've got the main what are we doing for starter i don't know i've ummed

39:30Hannah Fry: and ahed about this one okay there is a duck salad that they sell in the ivy in blackheath

39:36Jessie Ware: oh my god is it delicious don't judge me but i'm just obsessed with it so nice it's got like

39:41Hannah Fry: pomegranate seeds in it like a little burst of happiness as you go yeah but but i think it would be some sort of salad probably with some sort of bird on it yeah but i think a salad with like It's sweet bits in it. That's, I think, what I like. Yeah. Sweet bits of fruit. Okay. You know? Something like that.

39:56Lennie Ware: And duck is tasty.

39:58Hannah Fry: Yeah.

39:59Lennie Ware: And then for pudding.

40:00Hannah Fry: For pudding. I'm going to go simple. I'm going to go chocolate mousse.

40:04Lennie Ware: This is so thrilling to hear because you have a chocolate mousse tart coming. But this is after cocking up. I've got two versions of chocolate mousse. Go on. I had lots of people around yesterday and I was like, right, I'm going to make the pud for tomorrow. so I have little ramekins of chocolate mousse ready for us to eat and then I served the big vat of chocolate mousse to my friends and I was like it's grainy and it's really thick and I've cocked up when making it I just added cream to the melted chocolate and it created like a ganache yeah it seized up and it's scientifically I don't know what happened there something makes it seize up so I did a new one today because I was just like oh bless you and I'm glad that I did because if it's your favourite then...

40:48Hannah Fry: Can I try the old one as well? Can we do a taste test? Yes, yes we can. Can we see if we can guess which one?

40:52Lennie Ware: No, you'll be able to guess because one's a tart and one's not and one is thick and halfway between a mousse and a I don't know what but yeah it was a shame.

41:12Lennie Ware: I would like to know if we were coming round I feel like I know this answer but if we were coming round what would you be cooking for us? Would it be your mother and ex-mother what do we call her? I don't know your mother-in-law?

41:23Hannah Fry: Ex-mother-in-law

41:25Lennie Ware: not sure her curries is that what you do?

41:29Hannah Fry: what's your showstopper? I don't really like in the old days I did used to have showstoppers I used to do like raccovan do you know what I'd probably do a coque van oh yeah probably do a coque van I love coque van

41:42Lennie Ware: I've never made a coque van have you not no

41:44Jessie Ware: it's dead easy it's really easy

41:45Lennie Ware: is it kind of like the chicken berth bourguignon

41:47Jessie Ware: yeah it's like berth bourguignon but yeah but do you use white wine or red wine well either yeah

41:52Hannah Fry: but not at the same time

41:53Jessie Ware: no but I think it's quite nice with white wine it's lovely with white wine it's really beautiful with white wine and then like dauphine wild potatoes Oh, yum. Oh, delfinoirs are the best. Yeah.

42:03Hannah Fry: But I think that's the type of food, I don't know, I think this is so perfect. You literally couldn't have made a more perfect dish because I think it's like you want something where everyone just feels really comfortable, gets stuck in. People can have seconds, people can have thirds, which happens often. And just like no fuss, comfort food.

42:24Jessie Ware: Do you have lots of dinner parties?

42:26Hannah Fry: No, but I have a lot of my family round. Okay. Yeah.

42:29Lennie Ware: What do you think you would have done if you weren't like a whiz at everything? What do you think you would have done as a career?

42:37Hannah Fry: Do you know what I really honestly wanted to do? For real, when I was like 16, 17, I just wanted to be a hairdresser.

42:42Lennie Ware: Well, I... You're kind of doing...

42:45Hannah Fry: You need to teach me how to use the air app.

42:48Lennie Ware: I've got one. I can teach you. Is it really easy? So have you always been really good at hair?

42:54Hannah Fry: Yeah. I don't even think I'm going to do my hair.

42:56Lennie Ware: Can you do like a plait on yourself, like a French braid? Yeah. Of course you can.

43:00Jessie Ware: But you've got good hair. I can see it's thick. Yeah. But you've got the same sort of hair.

43:05Lennie Ware: Yeah, but I'm like hanging on to a blow dryer that I did on Wednesday with a bit of dry shampoo. But I want to do that, like have actually some like, you know. How often do you wash your hair? Every three days, maybe? The really important questions that we're asking.

43:16Hannah Fry: They're the most important questions.

43:20Lennie Ware: I never get to talk about this stuff. Let's talk about your skin now. Let's talk about skincare. Deal. Oh my God, I've got stuff to say about skincare. Come on, let's talk about skincare.

43:26Hannah Fry: All right, because I science this shit out of my skincare.

43:28Jessie Ware: Oh, yeah, we need to know about this.

43:29Lennie Ware: This is what we need to know. Forget fucking AI. Are you using Korean beauty skincare?

43:37Hannah Fry: Sometimes.

43:38Lennie Ware: Yeah, okay.

43:38Hannah Fry: So I went to Korea last year. I bought everything. Everything that I could buy. Most of it.

43:44Lennie Ware: Did you go for work or did you go for one of those, like, the, like, consultants? Like, don't all the girls go there, like, and they have all the procedures done?

43:52Hannah Fry: Oh, no, I didn't get anything done. Okay. I was there for work. I tried to pitch it. I was filming a TV show and I tried to pitch it that part of the TV show would be that when it got some procedures done and they didn't go for it. That's such a shame. I could have free face up. That would have been amazing. Okay, so red light stuff, absolutely legit. It works. Really? Because I kind of gave up

44:13Lennie Ware: on mine recently. It's what's it called. But do you have to have a certain wavelength? Yeah.

44:18Hannah Fry: Yes.

44:19Lennie Ware: So which one are you recommending?

44:20Hannah Fry: The LED lights.

44:21Lennie Ware: I've got the current body

44:23Hannah Fry: and I've got the shark one. I have the current body one. And do you use the current body?

44:25Lennie Ware: your skin is glowing

44:27Hannah Fry: okay what are we saying

44:29Lennie Ware: every day

44:29Hannah Fry: so I think five times a week okay so basically why does it work what it does you're writing this down mum yeah okay definitely it's gonna be on the pod you can just listen right okay so there's like genuine peer-reviewed studies about this it's proper it's genuine it really works like you have to be careful about exactly which wavelength they are exactly as you said right some of them work best than others there's also like the number of lights the intensity of your lights and so on.

44:56Jessie Ware: I gave mine away.

44:58Hannah Fry: Did you? It only works if you use it every, like at least five times a week. I could do that. Yeah. I really like it. I really like it.

45:06Lennie Ware: How long have you been using it?

45:07Hannah Fry: Three years or so. And how long are you under there for? Like, well, whatever the timer is. You're doing the pancakes

45:13Lennie Ware: whilst you've got your infrared on.

45:14Hannah Fry: Here I go. No. No, I put it on. I set my alarm five, like 10 minutes early and I put it on as soon as I wake up. Okay. It's like, you know, when you're kind of a bit groggy.

45:23Lennie Ware: You do it in the morning. You have got gorgeous skin. Thank you so much. Okay, so this is the first thing. I didn't used to.

45:27Hannah Fry: I had terrible, terrible acne when I was younger. Horrific acne. I mean, like, sort of I had my face lasered off many times. Oh, nice. Like Roacutin and stuff, everything. Okay. Instead of retinol, I use a tretinol. Tretinol, yeah. There's one...

45:43Lennie Ware: Piece size amount?

45:45Hannah Fry: Go a bit heavy-handed. Okay, how many times a week? I go a bit heavy-handed. I've built it up over years, so I can probably do four or five.

45:52Lennie Ware: The glow is insane on her skin.

45:53Hannah Fry: That's very kind of you. And then vitamin C in the morning. Which vitamin C are you using? I use the Skin Qs as well. So do I? Yeah. Which?

46:00Jessie Ware: Serum 10 or Fru Lick?

46:02Hannah Fry: The Fru Lick.

46:03Jessie Ware: Just tell me why vitamin C?

46:05Hannah Fry: So what vitamin C does is it's about the colour, basically. It's about brightening, right? So any discolouration that you have, it kind of lifts it.

46:13Lennie Ware: Oh, I'm just going to start doing that. So we're going vitamin C. Are we doing hyaluronic?

46:16Hannah Fry: Yes, I do. Don't really bother.

46:19Lennie Ware: Oh, okay.

46:19Hannah Fry: I mean, maybe. Botox? Oh, absolutely. Me too. Yeah.

46:26Jessie Ware: Jessie, I need to get you a woman.

46:28Lennie Ware: Yeah, but that's what I got. My present. You need to go and see my facialist. Maybe you don't because she's the best. What does she do? She does anything. And then gives you milk for this or tea at the end.

46:36Jessie Ware: What have you got, do you think?

46:38Lennie Ware: Sperm. Sperm. Oh, yeah, I've done that one as well.

46:40Hannah Fry: That one is slightly more bullshit.

46:42Lennie Ware: I'm not sure if that did much. I'm not having that. Did you do the thing where...

46:46Hannah Fry: Oh, my God. I did it at the worst possible time ever. so so because what they do they inject it under your eye but they can inject it there's two different methods they can either insert a cannula i did the cannula first time where your eye sort of looks like you've been punched no i didn't do that and um and then but the swelling goes down after two days you're fine um the other option is that they inject you and my skin is like so pale that any bruising just really really shows and so i was like oh it'll be fine just do just do the injection all over two days before the most important event of my entire life and i was no it was so bad i i but i had to i was like interviewing someone incredibly important on set anyway it was awful like i was wearing makeup like it was crazy see i won't even have my cataracts done because they said you can't wear mascara and i said to the i said you've got to tell me

47:39Jessie Ware: so i bought at all afterwards no not for a month how would i live you could you could get them you I actually couldn't live without mascara on or makeup.

47:49Hannah Fry: Could you get them tinted and perved before?

47:51Jessie Ware: I bought false eyelashes. Yeah. And when I got there to the doctor and I said, you know, I've got two minds about this because you can't wear mascara, he said, have you changed your mind, Mrs. Ware? We don't need to do it. And he said I didn't need to do it at that particular time. But I do need that. I want to have them done.

48:07Lennie Ware: I just want to go back to, okay, I see your cannula and I raise you. The Fraxel PRP.

48:14Hannah Fry: So I've done Tixle.

48:16Lennie Ware: What's Tixol?

48:17Hannah Fry: So, actually, no, I have done Fraxel as well. I have done Fraxel as well.

48:20Lennie Ware: That was not good for a new reception party I went after. No. And I looked horrendous. How many days after? It was the next day.

48:29Jessie Ware: When was that time when you turned up and your face was bright red? That was after microneedling years ago. Okay. Yeah, it was a shocker.

48:37Hannah Fry: You have to be careful about microneedling, by the way, because it can reduce, like, the fat under your skin. Oh. Yeah, so, like, the lasers are better because they're much more precise about the depth that they go to.

48:46Jessie Ware: You need to do a beauty program, Hannah. Yeah. Get on it.

48:52Hannah Fry: The rest is beauty. The rest is beauty.

48:56Lennie Ware: Yeah, that's more important. I'll be the guinea pig when you don't fancy something. I'll co-host it with you. Deal, deal, deal. The rest is ageing.

49:05Jessie Ware: Tell me about that one.

49:07Lennie Ware: So we have a really flat chocolate mousse. Where did the air go?

49:13Jessie Ware: Don't know, Hannah.

49:14Lennie Ware: I just can't, I can't be bothered with baking and shit. Anyway, this is my second attempt chocolate mousse that isn't set. Enjoy yourself. Or you can have this rock hard, rock hard one. I've got a few more of them. You can have whatever you like, babe. Hold on, I'm not going to give you that one.

49:32Hannah Fry: It's the most unattractive thing I've ever seen. Hold on, you're not having that one.

49:37Jessie Ware: I'm going to try a bit harder in the next one.

49:40Hannah Fry: Did I not tell you that it's all about, like, comfort food? and not caring what it looks like. Okay, great. Perfect. And everyone's feeling happy.

49:48Lennie Ware: So the rest is science. It's your new podcast. Even for somebody like me who tried to get rid of science in my life as quickly as possible, was even enthused when you're talking about mosh pits and how crap music is getting. It's really brilliant.

50:08Hannah Fry: Until your new album.

50:09Lennie Ware: Oh, you're very sweet. Oh, yes, yes. Please help yourself. Thank you very much. Tell us a bit about it. How did it come about? Obviously, we know Goalhanger is the production company that do the rest is politics, the rest is history, the rest is entertainment. Did you go to them? Did they go to you?

50:25Hannah Fry: No, I think that they first approached me like maybe three years ago. Like it was a really long time. And we sort of knew that we wanted to do something, but like, because I've got seven jobs, finding time is always going to be difficult. But then also we wanted to make sure that we got the right co-host because was it so important no i wanted him oh and you've got him i've wanted him and i got him how did you know him so i he is a very very famous youtuber he's been making science videos on youtube for like 15 years or something he's got like 26 million followers it's insane wow and he um I watched his videos you know before I'd done anything before I'd like ever stood on a stage before I'd ever you know sat in front of a microphone I watched his stuff and the thing about him is that he is um he's like I like to describe him as the exact right amount of weird um so he is uh he doesn't he's like he's not normal yeah he he doesn't think about things in a normal way um are you allowed to say that i know i think i have i have uh but i mean that in the most complimentary way possible right he's like everything that i bring to him you have like this grand philosophical way of saying it i've just never considered before so i don't know okay so we're talking about crying right an episode about crying and like i don't know i've made loads of science programs in the past and people say oh there's this chemical this hormone that's released in your tears there's like this is the studies they've done on crying all the same normal boring nonsense instead michael is like have you noticed that when people cry they scrunch up their eyes they can't see what's around them they're like physically signaling that they're making themselves vulnerable like actually maybe what crying is is that we are like tapping into the fact that we're a social species and you're sort of saying like i am vulnerable help me and it's true that like I can be in a confrontation with somebody and it hasn't happened very many times in my life where I've made someone cry but um like I'll be in a confrontation with somebody and then they start crying and immediately you back off back off like everything just dissipates right so you just sort of sees that the world's in this like this way that it just hasn't occurred to me before or I don't know I was talking about green energy right and nuclear power and all of this stuff and I was approaching it in a sort of quite standard way that I do, thinking about stories, thinking about people, thinking about how it works.

53:04Hannah Fry: But he's thinking about things on a completely different level. So instead, he says, okay, the thing about nuclear waste is that it's still radioactive for thousands and thousands of years. If you bury it in the ground, right, you can't just put a sign up that says, don't open this, because you can't even be sure that our language will be spoken in thousands of years. There's no picture, there's no like mark that you can put on it that will tell people in or whoever finds it in many thousands of years this is dangerous do not don't don't go in here because even if you put up a sign right if you worked out a way to do it with drawings and stuff that said oh do not enter like you know mystical things lie here like they did with sort of Tutankhamun's tomb that just makes you think there's something valuable there you want to go and rob it yeah so he's like thinking on this just completely different level about like what is it that what is it that makes humans interesting how he's sort of like looking at us from a kind of alien perspective as it were all the time and he just puts these twists on anything i can come up with that i just completely blow my mind every single time how amazing yeah he's great he's really great this is delicious it's not delicious

54:17Lennie Ware: you're so sweet it's like a cow pat i've just served you a cow pat and it's dense as fuck and I wish I hadn't fucking bothered.

54:24Hannah Fry: No, it's great. You're so sweet. I disagree with you. This is exactly the right... I'm looking at flavour, not presentation. Okay, love that. It's quite bitter.

54:31Lennie Ware: Yeah, it's quite bitter. I disagree with you.

54:33Hannah Fry: Oh, do you probably... Maybe it's because I'm eating it with this one.

54:36Lennie Ware: Well, the only processed thing, I guess, is the digestive in that. So, there we go.

54:42Jessie Ware: Yeah, but are you one of those people that follows food fads? Like, you'll have a piece of dark chocolate because that's good for something or something every day.

54:51Hannah Fry: No. Okay. do you no i eat what i like me too and i think as you block of dairy milk everywhere

54:59Lennie Ware: gosh dairy milk so delicious before we let you go can you give us a nostalgic taste that can

55:06Hannah Fry: transport you back somewhere am i allowed to say boiled ham yeah um okay so i spent like all of my summers as a child in Ireland.

55:19Jessie Ware: Which part?

55:21Hannah Fry: So my family are from Offaly, which is right in the middle. It's like, it's basically bog country. It's sort of like the kind of Irish equivalent of Dudley. That's sort of how I like to describe it. They will have what's known as the bog accent, where you don't really speak so much as sort of breathe out while moving your mouth. So they were like, ah, come on, little. Well, you're hot more. They're an old. That's how they all sound. anyway just the um the boiled ham but specifically the boiled potatoes with irish butter and nothing else like you cannot make a more simple meal of just like ham potatoes butter but that like really reminds and maybe a glass of milk but that like really reminds me on being on the farm when

56:04Lennie Ware: i was a kid speaking of ireland can you tell everyone about the irish mixed grill please yes

56:09Hannah Fry: if you ever go for Christmas at Ireland especially with my cousins there was one Christmas in particular where there were five different types of potato that were served I like to call that the Irish Mixed Grill how funny

56:24Lennie Ware: and what kind of potato can you remember the five potatoes?

56:27Hannah Fry: obviously boiled, mashed roasted, I think there was chips and I think that there were some sort of dauphinoir thing or like something in cream I love that

56:36Lennie Ware: Hannah it's been such a pleasure

56:39Hannah Fry: oh the pleasure was all mine

56:40Lennie Ware: I definitely don't feel like we've asked you important enough questions

56:44Hannah Fry: excuse me the KV skin care questions were the most important questions I've ever been asked okay thank you so much

57:03Lennie Ware: Hannah Fry is my new crush. I told you, Tony. Well, no, but she's so impressive. I've been mad about her for ages.

57:11Jessie Ware: I know, but like... She's so impressive.

57:13Lennie Ware: Loved her. Fantastic. Absolutely wonderful. The Rest of Science is out. It's twice a week. Her co-host, Michael Stevens, is fantastic. They have such great rapport. And even for, like, a Philistine... Would you call myself a Philistine?

57:27Jessie Ware: A Philistine, yes. I would call you a Philistine. I would call you a Philistine.

57:29Lennie Ware: I'd call you a Philistine, darling. Yes, for a Philistine like myself, I can even understand what she's talking about, because She makes it so accessible.

57:37Jessie Ware: But she's a bit of a foodie. She likes food.

57:41Lennie Ware: Yeah, she kind of made out. Yeah, she doesn't like, she's like marinating for a weekend.

57:45Jessie Ware: But she forgets to eat. Jessie, if only I've just got too much. Because that brain is just like going like the clappers on other things. And food does, yeah. Important shit. Yeah, yeah.

57:54Lennie Ware: Loved the recipe. Alison Roman, you're a goddess.

57:57Jessie Ware: Yeah.

57:57Lennie Ware: It just works. I should have put more pasta water in to make it a bit more sloppy,

58:01Jessie Ware: but I loved it. It was delicious. Delicious.

58:04Lennie Ware: thank you very much to Hannah Fry for coming on The Rest of Science is on twice a week and you will find her on your screens in your ears and she is a goddess fantastic we'll see you next week for more Table Manners