Indira Varma

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1:15Lennie Ware: Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I am sitting in my kitchen with my mother. Again. Who has got it in for me this morning. What's going on? What's going on? Not at all. Do we need to unpack this? No, there's nothing going on. I'm under a little pressure. What? Going away tomorrow. Got to pack. Right. I had to schlep stuff out today. What do you want to schlep out? I bought you three oranges that I can't use. Oh, okay. Schlep out food that you didn't want that's coming in my fridge as usual. Three fresh oranges, because I used orange in my cake. Okay, thanks so much. And a box of eggs, because you go through them like...

1:53I do. Yeah. And football shirts. World Cup shirts.

1:58Lennie Ware: Are you ready for the World Cup? I think I am. We've got the chart going. Yeah. Now, listen, I've told... I've got some work going on in the garden. I did tell them they can't work from 10.30 till 1.00. Well, they're drilling, darling, now. Oh, I have a little word with them, Lenny. Give them a clue. But you know why? what I'm you know what I'm getting let's have a little bit of a song for that no I'm not singing my own song but basically I thought it was only right that I finally had a sauna do you like saunas? well obviously because I'm about to have one in my garden I hate them you have such this is like when you talk about Towie or Love Island I hate them Mexican food I hate that but like you you can't have enough of an opinion on it because I don't know the last time you went in a sauna and Jessie well because I don't go in a sauna because I don't like them but I did used to go in saunas when long time ago when they first came out before you were born oh really oh really you're even born and they came out how long the saunas existed a long long time a long long time we used to get i have one in our university health club oh well not health club swimming pool there used to be a sauna next to it well and you had to pour water on the coals and then everyone thought oh this is great and you're sweating and want to die right it's an amazing well just explain to me why It's great.

3:16Lennie Ware: You feel amazing. Do you? It's good for your muscles, your hormones. Detoxify. It's good to your hormones. It just balances everything. Oh, God, I'm not talking about this because I'm getting it wrong. So have you got a cold dip to go in afterwards? No, we don't, but we've got a shower. I don't like... Sam's just going to hose you down. We're going to like... This is... He's not going to hose me down, but I basically... I do think maybe we need to get the cold plunge. We're just going to see how we go with the sauna first. Just have a cold shower. You don't need a cold plunge. Well, this is what he thinks.

3:46Well, obviously, if you need the hot and cold, there'd be no point in just being hot because you need the cold to balance your hormones.

3:53Lennie Ware: Now, I don't know if we have any Finnish listeners, but when I was, because there's lots of really wonderful... Is he going to beat you with birch sticks as well? No. Okay. I think that's our guest. Okay. So I better go. And we'll finish this debate about saunas, but I heard that actually you don't even need to do the cold plunge if you don't want to. But again, I may be getting all the wrong information, but this lovely lady said, in Finland, apparently, they don't always do the cold plunge. They're rolling around in the bloody snow because it's freezing cold there. Well, yes, okay. Anyway, Indira Varma has just turned up.

4:21Lennie Ware: We're very excited about having Indira. She's an incredible actress who you would have seen in Game of Thrones, being Pedro Pascal's sister in, I think, the best land in... She can compete with the drilling, darling. I don't know whether that's my house or somebody else's, but anyway... No, it's down there, darling. Oh, it is? Yeah, I'll tell them. She has been in The Night Manager. She's won Olivier's. she has been Lady Macbeth with Ralph Fiennes which producer Alice saw recently and we have just seen her play Shelley Levine in Glen Gary Glen Ross which is an all female cast at the Old Vic it's David Mamet and who's directing it?

5:03Patrick Marber

5:04Lennie Ware: and it's yeah we'll let her talk about it but Indira Varma is coming up on the podcast and I have made because it's a brunch I've made because I love the cookbook so much I've made from Honey & Co daily their new cookbook, I did do something the other day I've made their shakshuka which was really easy and then I've done with Medesk which also I'm loving, I'm doing that salad that I did for somebody recently and it's just a really good green salad and it's got this delicious shallot dressing and a loaf of bread from Dusty Knuckle, Kirstie of Alice who got it in Dalston and I've made a one pot Chocot, yoghurt and orange cake.

5:46Yum. Dead easy. Fab.

5:49Lennie Ware: I'm not competing with the drill, Jessie. I'm going to tell them they can be quiet now. Okay, Indira Varma coming up on Table Manners.

6:03Lennie Ware: Hello. Thank you for being Indira. This is so exciting. And last time we saw you, your hair was growing a lot, but you've just told me that it was a wig. Overnight, 24 hours. Yeah. Special hair product. I did think that was really method of you to give yourself a really short hairdo that was very 80s. Yeah. Well, we tried my own hair. Yeah. But and leaving some greys in. And actually, it didn't quite look right. So our brilliant Campbell Young, who's a wiggy. Yeah. He made a short, dodgy 80s hairdo for me. I have to say, I love this hair. I think this really suits you. It's beautiful. But oh, Shelley Levine.

6:46Lennie Ware: She's not having a good time. She's not. Did you call her she or he? Yeah. Well, it's really difficult because David Mamet didn't want to change a word. So we've kept the pronouns. But we are all women. It's an all-female cast playing these, what were written as male characters. but we are women. Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, you are in the old bit production of this with some incredible women. Amazing cast. It's a really great cast. And just explain to the listener who doesn't know about this very kind of formidable film. Was it a play first? It was a play. Then it was quite famous for the Alec Baldwin film.

7:30Yes, but it's so funny because the Alec Baldwin character isn't in it. So David Mamet rewrote the screenplay and wrote in the character of Alec Baldwin. I think so. In order to sort of do a set up for the play and the story so that people know what they're, what the, I suppose the set up that Alec Baldwin does is explains that all these salespeople, real estate agents, I guess, now have to deliver or two people will get fired. and the top two will win a Cadillac or a set of steak knives. And that's what he sort of explains. And we don't have that in the play. We're doing the original play. There is a Cadillac up for grabs in the original play.

8:12There is. I didn't hear steak knives. No. No, there are steak knives. There are steak knives. But also in the film, there's a lot less swearing. How do you...

8:23Lennie Ware: I enjoyed your cocksuckers. I enjoyed it. Just his cocksuckers. Cunts. I love all those words. Mum did want to know. You said this. Well, I wondered how it, because it's a very masculine play. Yes. And it's about masculinity and competition and aggression. But some of the language is very misogynistic and quite violent and aggressive. And how it felt as a woman saying those words. Jessie loves those words. But, you know, I wonder if like today, like when it was written in the 80s, I totally agree. I think it's a it's sort of I think some people think of it as a play that describes toxic masculinity.

9:09But now I think a lot of women do use that language. And also women are in work. And from since the 80s, there was a whole power dressing thing. women were starting to get positions of power and but but I think one of the reasons why I think it works quite well is the fact that women have a shorter shelf life and often we've been in an environment where there's only one or two jobs for women in a very male environment and so actually as much as women I think there's a real sisterhood and we really support each other and women are very much more about community I think suddenly when there's only two roles those women are pitted against each other despite themselves and I feel that that in a funny sort of way it reflects um our our profession our industry as actors you know like yeah I think this play there are loads

10:07Lennie Ware: of correlations and parallels I mean I'd say that in pop music yeah yeah so there was a time when And, you know, like in TV and in plays, there was only one great role for women in it. And then everyone else was a bloke. And so you'd be auditioning against your girlfriends for the same role. And inevitably, you're sort of pitted against each other. Of course, we don't behave the way we do in the play and, you know, slam each other and all the rest of it. But I think it's about desperation. and when people are sort of on the bones of their ass if you like and are desperate they're more likely to to fight you know like a cornered rat or something and so I think it becomes more about survival rather than male behavior it's like is that how human beings behave when they're that desperate it's sort of dog eat dog yeah have you done any plays in the old Vic before yes I've done a few plays there.

11:09Lennie Ware: Is it one of your favourite boards to tread or whatever, you know? I mean, it's so funny, isn't it? Because it's always... I love the old thing. Me too. But only because they offer me work. Oh, please. No, not really. No, because it's a gorgeous space. It's a gorgeous space. Matthew Warchus asked me to do Present Laughter in 2019. Oh, and you won! You won your Olivier for that. I did. That was amazing. And that was another incredible company with Andrew Scott and Sophie Thompson amongst other I mean we had such a laugh on that is Andrew Scott that fun yeah he's great is he he's just gorgeous he's just delicious oh yeah I bet he's heaven yeah um it's all it's all real and and so Sophie I have to say I love Sophie and then I did during lockdown COVID we did Matthew asked me to do Faith Healer Brian Friel and we did it in camera so we filmed we did it We did it live with the empty auditorium behind us.

12:11It was quite moving, actually.

12:12Lennie Ware: Brian Friel's the one that did translation. Yeah, I read that at school. He's so beautiful. It's like the perfect play. Right. I've seen one of his in Dublin, I think. Okay. He's an Irish. Yeah. He's like the best. I think he's one of the best. So having no audience, but it didn't feel like a film set. I mean, a TV set. No, not at all. It was, there were just, it was, how many cameras did we have? I think we only had one camera. But we did have, because we only had two days rehearsal, so we were using autocue. Right. And you became very familiar with it by then, but it was weirdly liberating to be able to talk directly down the lens to the audience.

12:54And it's a very intimate play. They're monologues. And it was a sort of cross between theatre and TV, I guess. It was just storytelling. But because we hadn't long done present laughter and we'd been used to hearing a thousand people laughing in a room and, you know, that kind of, that community, that feeling of togetherness and a shared experience that's so amazing and then suddenly having this empty auditorium full of ghosts. Well, the ghosts, you know that you can hear, you remember.

13:25Lennie Ware: It was really extraordinary. But it also, I guess, like, I mean, I did a really mad thing where I sung at the O2 in lockdown with, like, a full orchestra and it was like well so no one there no one was there with Pete Tong and it was weird and it's that thing where you so appreciate the job that you are given when you have the audience and so when it was kind of an amazing experience but you do I think lockdown made me take stock of like how lucky we are to do the jobs that we get to do do you know what I mean definitely um and I'm sure other people in lockdown were like how lucky am I to be able to be at home and do and I felt that in lots of ways with being with my kids, but like it was performing in an empty space.

14:05Lennie Ware: It just made me think, God, we are lucky to be able to perform. Anyway, back to you. Should we start from the beginning? Where did you grow up and who was around the dinner table and what were you eating? I grew up in Bath. Lovely. And my mum and dad... Did you live on one of the Jane Austen... No. No, I lived in a small Georgian terrace that was probably a workman's cottage. I think it's one of the longest little Georgian terraces. I probably made that up, but anyway, it sounds quite nice. Of the workman's cottages who used to build the beautiful crescents, etc., etc. And they're all different.

14:44They're tiny, but they're lovely. And we had a big old garden full of vegetables. My dad was Indian. My mum was Swiss. And we ate foreign food all the time. And it was like, so growing up, it was just you. It was just me. My parents had me quite late. My dad was already in his 50s. My mom was 42 and they had a life behind them, you know. And so I just was brought along for the ride. And my mom was not much of a cook, but she had to do it, you know, out of necessity and all the rest of it. But my dad was a really good cook and he was a vegetarian. She wasn't. But so it was predominantly vegetarian food.

15:28a lot of veg from the garden, that kind of thing. And we'd eat foods that, things like artichoke and avocado, which, and spaghetti, which I know it sounds like every day. It sounds avant-garde. But in the sort of late 70s, that was quite unusual. And I suppose because my mum's European side, they were used to all the seasonal stuff from, she had a lot of Italian friends and in France. Was she Swedish? No, Swiss. Swiss you ate a lot of fondue not a lot of it I mean you can't you'd have problems with your arteries yeah right yeah it is delicious it is I love it but we didn't eat that my uncle used to make amazing fondue but like my dad used to make things like which I loved which was really simple cabbage and peanut curry oh yeah oh my god I mean really simple I've never heard of that one I mean it's poor man's food Is it a dry curry?

16:29Yeah, it is a dry curry. Can you make it? I mean, I asked him once, you know, a long time ago, teach me how to cook, teach me Indian food. And it was all sort of... I'm going to be outrageous and do an accent now. But you dig this much and you just... And it was all improv'd, you know. He was just doing it by scent. And you warm the spices, then you grind it. And then and it's like, well, how long do I have to warm them for? How long did you roast them for? How long does it, you know, do you have to soften an onion, etc.? I and it was it was all instinct. And I I think he taught me how to cook through scent and touch.

17:14And I mean, I can vaguely make it, but, you know, it's never going to be as good as it is. Can you remember the taste? Was it delicious? Yes, it was delicious. it it was it was a little crispy but you know the sweetened thing of the cabbage and then the crunch of the peanut very and cumin coriander ginger garlic you know all the usual chili we always had hot mango pickle pattocks hot mango pickle on the table um and rice and he taught me how to make rice which was uh again it was not measuring out a quantity of water it was you you fill your you wash your rice um and that's always a nice thing to feel isn't it you know when you put your hand in it's the grains those grains and then you clean your rice and and in the old days it was he used to sift that he used to go to Kempite Lane because his mate lived there and he used to bring back spices and rice in by the kilo you know massive bags and it was in a box under the stairs or something and um take you have to take out the stones that were in the rice because they weren't I think it wasn't washed.

18:19It wasn't washed. It was kind of a big sack or something. So you'd have to take the stones out. I remember that on a tray. And then you used to wash it, wash it several times over, several times over. And you put the rice in, you put the water in, and you measure by the top of your finger on the rice, the top of the rice, that much water up to your first... This is how you use it. There you go. International, global, I love that. The thumb, yes.

18:46Lennie Ware: I love that measurement. Are you a good cook then? I'd like to think I'm a good cook. Yeah, okay. So if we were coming over to yours, what would be on the menu if you were having a dinner party for us? Well, I think my skills are I can rustle anything up from what's left in the fridge. I think that's my special skill. That's very good. I think it's useful. But if I were to invite you over, which I'd love to do, I think it would be, and I don't make this all the time, but I love it so much. It's a Morro fish stew, Catalan fish stew. Monk fish and clams. And it's got, it's red pepper, paprika and it's almond based sauce.

19:26And saffron. And that's in the Morro cookbook. Delicious.

19:32Lennie Ware: They're celebrating an anniversary thing because I got invited to a dinner. It used to be my favourite restaurant, that lamb that they did there. It was so delicious. And the yoghurt cake. We haven't done the yogurt cake. Oh, we don't. Do you remember the yogurt cake? Yes, I've done a cud of yogurt cake today. Yeah, but you know the one that had the pomegranates? Oh, I remember that. Oh, delicious. Yeah. So you do that. Would you, are you interested in drinks? Do you drink? I love, yes. Okay. I, I love a cocktail. But you see, I can't, I can't, it's really hard. I love food so much that I find it very difficult to bring it down to one thing.

20:10Yeah. But I mean, if I were to have a cocktail, I might say a Paloma. Love them. I love a Paloma.

20:16Lennie Ware: Oh, Jessie loves those as well. I prefer them to a margarita, I have to say sometimes. Why? I mean, there's a time and a place for a margarita, but I think Palomas are easier to like keep going. A bit fresher. Exactly. You keep going. You can have more of Paloma. Yeah. And I know you had Stanley Tucci on. Oh, so fab. And I'm not sure, because I haven't heard that episode, but I worked with him many years ago. Did you? And he made me my first, what do you call it? No, martini. And he gave me my first shaker and all the rest of it. But he gave very good advice, which I think goes for all cocktails, which is they're like women's breasts.

20:51Did he tell you this one? No, but it's about two, three. One's not enough and three's too many. So true, so true. Yeah, so I think that's probably true. Well, your friend Ray Fiennes discusses martini in our podcast.

21:06Lennie Ware: which was a big bone of contention for us. Producer Alice saw that production of Macbeth, by the way, which sounded amazing. Yeah, that was great. Where was the theatre that you wrote? Was it in a warehouse? Yeah, it was in a warehouse. We did warehouses. We started in Liverpool at Canada Water and then Edinburgh for a couple of weeks. And it was really exciting. You know what we're talking about, being in the Old Vic and the beauty of being in a space that has history. And, you know, like when I did Present Laughter, I remember looking up 1930s makeup for women of colour or women with olive skin.

21:46And the face that kept coming up was Merle Oberon, who, of course, like since then we hear was probably Anglo-Indian. And then I thought, oh, she called herself Merle Oberon. She hid her identity. and I was so and then I found out that she was friends with Olivier and Noel Coward who of course we were doing the Noel Coward play and I was I was overcome with emotion because I thought my name's Indira Varma and I'm allowed to be called Indira Varma doing an old cow play at the old pick and hasn't time changed haven't we moved on but that was a bit of a segue but being in that space where there's all these people you've all these amazing actors who have been through there and then doing Maccas and being in a warehouse where you think oh this is uncharted territory we don't know whether this space works it feels sort of more of a risk because you don't know how the space responds to you old Vic has been tried and tested some of these beautiful London venues have been And they've been, they work.

22:55Lennie Ware: You do a lot of theatre. You kind of love theatre over. I guess that's... I mean, theatre over it. It's frightening, isn't it? And it's a risk. It's like, I could fail. Every night you can fail, you know. No, you're never going to fail. But you can because you cannot please everyone. And somebody will always not love what you're doing. Do you read reviews? No. No. There's no point. There's no point. It's one person's opinion. But I bet if you get a good review, you read it. Well, you know, it's tempting. It kind of trickles down. No, but even then, you know, it's beautifully played by. And you think, what, is that it?

23:35Is that it? You know, it's so reductive, I think, whether it's if it's if it's a good review or if it's a bad review. And I've worked with Roger Imer a long time ago. And he said, I don't read reviews anymore. Because once he was sent all his reviews for whatever play it was, And he said literally one canceled the other out. Yeah. So it's just an opinion.

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24:45Lennie Ware: Should I go and get the food going whilst you ask India about Last Supper. What would you have on your Last Supper? Would it be a combination of that heritage? No. Okay. Start from the beginning. I mean, my parents travelled a lot and had friends from all over. I think my favourite thing, I love Italy. Do you? And I love Italian food. Me too. I did a job a long time ago in Rome and we were sort of living there for about a year and Lindsay Duncan and I shared a flat in Rome on Via Giulia. She's amazing. Okay. And we're both foodies. And so we would go around finding all the great places to eat and we both eat anything as well.

25:30And in Rome they do like their sort of... Entrails. Their innards and their entrails. That's not on my last supper list, by the way. But we found this place in Trastevere, which I don't know is still there, called Cecco Caritiera. And they did the best antipasti. So for antipasti, I... This is your starter? This is my starter. But, you know, it's going to be a long meal. You know, in Italy, you don't just have three courses. So I would definitely have... I think I would have to have a fresh tomato. And, you know, we'd say tomato, basil, mozzarella. We're not talking something out of Sainsbury's.

26:07We're talking something... I remember the first time I went to Rome, and on my first day there, I went to a restaurant by myself and a man sat just at the table next to me and all he ordered was a demi-carafe of red wine and a ball of mozzarella. That was it. And he put olive oil on it, salt, and he ate it. And I thought, oh, I need to know what this is all about. And so I think I definitely have. No, I didn't because it was too late. I was on dessert by then. The olive oil probably was something exceptional. Sorella, dripping, milky, you know. And so I think I'd have to have one of those with those amazing tomatoes, the sort of acidic, sweet, and basil, and the olive oil has to be amazing.

26:51And then I'd go for my deep-fried ricotta. You know, little? I've never had that. Oh, my God. I mean, I think it's basically battered. And it sounds disgusting.

27:04Lennie Ware: Is it not with, like, a courgette flower or something? Well, yes. Okay. No. Well, no. No, that's also one of my difficulties. How do you deep fry ricotta? Well, I think they're cubes. I've never had it since. Ricotta doesn't come in cubes. No, but they cut it. And it's really delicate. And they slightly, you know, like a Japanese tempura batter. Yeah. Very, very, very fine. Yeah. And very swiftly done. And so I don't know how they do it. I'm afraid I don't know. I can't help you there. It's really, it is very sort of loose and delicious. Have it on its own. But I would also have fiore di zucca, you know, stuffed with ricotta and anchovies.

27:46Ricotta and anchovies. You know, just a slither of anchovies in the middle. I love anchovies. Yeah. And I think, you know those in a bocco di lupo? They do sage with an anchovie in between. I'd have one of those. I love them. And I would also have, you know, in Rome they had two different ways of cooking artichoke. karcheufi i think it's judeka so the jewish uh deep fried yes oh my god i love that that's in the ghetto area exactly so i would definitely have that as my little entree right and um what are you drinking well i'd have to have i do like the idea of maybe starting with the negroni spalliat or something like that but again lindy and i came across this what because we were obviously wine tasting wherever we possibly could um and we found and i've never had it since you know when you I think it's I'm capturing those flavours that have transported me and I cannot let them go.

28:43OK, good. And and I've not been able to capture it since. So it's a white is a Sauvignon Blanc, but it's from the Alto Adige region, which traditionally does Chardonnay. And it's slightly sweet, you know, in the northern area. But there was something about this wine. It was like drinking elderflower. It was phenomenal. So that is what I would like with it. and then I would have to have spaghetti vangole. Can you make it? Yes. Okay. That was the first time I ever had it. I was six years old and we went on a family holiday to Calabria and we went to these old nonna, you know, where they lift the lid and you just eat that.

29:25And I have a photo of me. I look like I've gone to sleep, but I'm just staring to the middle distance with spaghetti coming out of my mouth. and I thought I had gone to heaven. You know, the very small clams, which I never seem to be able to find those tiny, tiny ones. What do you think makes the best spaghetti vongole? Is it the amount of garlic? I think it needs to be very garlicky and parsley. A little tiny bit of chilli, but not too much. Oh, you put a little chilli in. Not too much. And very good olive oil. Very good olive oil. And, of course, you have to have, I think, probably the vongolet juice, the liquor of it, and the pasta water.

30:10So there's that slight unrighteousness. And the white wine. Oh, God, the white wine. We forgot the white wine. So which wine do you put in a vongolet? I think it doesn't matter very much, maybe. I leave it up to whoever's cooking my last supper. And which pasta would you choose for that? Spaghetti? Classic spaghetti. I used to be obsessed with angel hair. You know, they're really fine, but not for the vangolet, don't you? Yeah, no, I think it's too fine to get the... Yeah. Will you have cheese after that or salad? Oh, I haven't had my fish yet. Oh, my God. Yes, Jindira. Oh, my God. Yeah. This is a pasty dish.

30:44Yeah, okay, sorry. Yeah, so that was just, you know. Okay. That was pre-me. Seconde would be my fish. Again, it would... I've gone a slight... I've gone to Greece, I think, for my fish. Okay. Probably a sea bream. and it would just be grilled with garlic, lemon. A whole big one that you're sharing. And I'm going to eat it with my hands. Yeah. What sides are you having with that? Well, I'm sure you've had it. I love something like a spinach. The horta. Horta is the best. Horta is the best thing on earth.

31:13Lennie Ware: The best. That is what I want. And you can't get it here. No. So that's what I want. I don't even, I think we should try and grow it. I'll bring the seeds out. Our guy on the beach that we go to, he does it with feta and chilli. Oh. And with the lemon, and it's just like a little kick. I love that. And then, you know, those really sort of oveny potatoes that sort of drip in oil. It sounds like a great meal. It is a good meal. So the thing about Greece, when they serve horta, you know when you get vegetables in England as a side, it's like that much? I know. They give you horta that's always that much, which is far too much.

31:48But I think veg is so important, an important part of the meal. I love it. Okay, so we've got the potatoes, we've got the vlita. Can I throw some puntarelli in there? Sure. You know, it's that Italian. Puntarelli's the, like, chicory. Oh, the very thin, quite bitter with anchovy. I think I've gone anchovy mad. That's okay. So how do they cook it? They don't. It's raw. It's raw with a bit of anchovy on it. Like an anchovy dressing. It's delicious. God, yeah. It's delicious. So that's going to be the salad with the fish. And then are you going on to cheese? Do you know, I love cheese as a Swiss person, but I'm going to forego it because, is that wrong?

32:30No, I haven't been. Okay, I'm going to write it in. But I do love my dessert. But the cheese, but then should I do cheese first before my dessert or? I never know about that. I never know. I like cheese at the very end because I like to keep going all night as I carry on drinking. Yeah, and you can sort of go to and fro, can't you? Yeah, and you can go back and forth and you have another glass of bread and you think, I'll have a bit more cheese. Well, okay, I'll go my cheese. I'll give you my cheese. Is it an Italian cheese or Swiss? I think I'm partial to my English cheeses. It's your mum from the Italian Swiss side.

33:05She's from French and Bernese, so German as well. But I love a Gruyere. Me too. A very strong, salty. That's sweet, nutty. Yeah, I love it. Delicious. But I do like my Montgomery cheddar. Adore. And I'd have to have a Stilton. But if we're going Italian, I do love a gorgonzola. Yeah, me too. And I love goat's cheese, so I'd have some sort of a goat's cheese. Hard goat's cheese or soft? No soft, I think. Just a contrast. And then dessert. I love ice cream. I do too. It's my favourite dessert. I think we can be friends. Yeah, I love it. Which is your flavour? When I was a kid, we used to go to this restaurant in the mountains in Switzerland.

33:49and they had a menu, an ice cream menu with 85, you know coupe? Yeah, coupe, yeah. With 85 different versions of coupe. And I actually asked to keep the menu because I love ice cream so much. I was so inspired by it. So your favourite ice cream? Well, I think it has to be a combination. I love a dark, dark chocolate, which might be a dark sorbet. you know chocolate sorbet with seasonally depending a black currant sorbet wow or raspberry I just don't fuck

34:30Lennie Ware: with sorbet give me the cream ok but you know I am doing me but I can remember a black currant sorbet from marine ices that was so delicious Ruby Violet. Do you remember Ruby Violet? Yeah, yeah. Absolutely delicious. It's really... But it's the combination on its own. Oh, you like it with chocolate. It's so good. I understand the combo. Maybe that could make it a bit more sense. I don't get the combo at all. But I haven't finished my combo. Oh, sorry. I'm gone. Maybe, you'll probably like this, praline ice cream. Oh, my favourite. Or a roasted almond. Roasted almond. What? I've never had that.

35:11Me neither. That sounds delicious. the other day. Roasted salted? No, not salted, just roasted almond. Absolutely delicious. Where was that? River Cafe. River Cafe. And I think I might have to have some Alpine strawberries on the side. You know Alpine strawberries, the tiny, tiny ones? They're little, tiny, little wild strawberries.

35:30Lennie Ware: You are very specific and I like it. Don't you have wild strawberries? I thought you had wild strawberries here. You probably have one, but I think the foxes have pissed on them and the kids have eaten them, maybe. They're my favourite. I'm going to, so we've got a Honey & Co daily recipe, which is from their new cookbook, Honey & Co daily. It's their shakshuka. It's shakshuka. And then I've got from the Medesk cookbook, which is Georgina Hayden, a very good green salad with a lovely shallot dressing and then dusty knuckle sourdough. Should I serve you? Do you want two eggs? Oh, I'm starving. Yes, please.

36:01Lennie Ware: I'm really sorry if they're hard now. Give her the soft ones, Jess. Well, I don't mind. She won't mind. Wow, this looks amazing And then do you want some bread? Thank you, yes I don't know, do you want your salad Do you want a separate plate? Separate plate, or I put it on afterwards Darling, would you bring the butter For the bread? This is so good It's a good recipe actually I'm usually a bit neither here nor there about shakshakas But I think this is a good recipe It's got a good amount of paprika in it, hasn't it? Yes, it has It's got smoked paprika and sweet paprika Do you cook from cookbooks?

36:40I do, but you know what? I love Felicity Cloak. Oh, what, the best? The best, you know. The best tiramisu, the best. Yeah, because I've always, like when I was a kid, I used to read, when I was ill, I used to read cookbooks just for pleasure. I was really, I love food.

36:58Lennie Ware: Yeah, I can see. And I love that. And I'm a bit annoyed that you've come for brunch because there's only so much we can do for brunch. I know, I would love to have a big old. Yeah, we'll do it. We'll do it. Oh, that would be amazing. We eat more than just eggs. So you're in North London. Is there any haunts that you absolutely love or are you going to keep it a secret? Well, I do love... I mean, in terms of where I go for food... What's it? Western's Laundry, I like. Okay, yeah. It's nice. Do you know it? Do you know it? And Floral Hall. Floral Hall, I've never heard of. It's really... It's not like a super foodie place.

37:36It's a very small menu and they do great cocktails and great wine and drinks. And it's a really nice atmosphere up there. And they've also got a restaurant, which I've not been to, called Through the Woods or something like that, which is meant to be very good seasonal, all that kind of thing. But, you know, like, I'm happy to travel to go and eat. Me too. Yeah. On a Sunday, your day off, do you cook or do you go out? Tend to cook, actually. Yeah. Yeah, and also we've got a really nice farmer's market, Ali Pali Farmer's Market. Oh, lovely. So I always try and... In fact, we do that every week.

38:12We get food. And seasonal, it's always...

38:15Lennie Ware: I'm so happy at a farmer's market. Me too. Have a little shmai. Why, darling? I just, I love it. I like chatting to them. I like tasting everything. I like buying it. I like that my son wants to go and steal all the compité cheese. Yes. I like... I love... It relaxes me. It makes me happy. I'm on speed dial with a chicken lady. No, but she's like, she saves me the last remaining asparagus if I get there late. And like the raspberries and the strawberries that are, see, you know, whatever is coming now. Hang on. Have we got a connection with our farmer's market? Joe Chickens. I call her Joe Chickens.

38:52I swear to God, someone suggested that you be on the podcast.

38:56Lennie Ware: Oh. And it was, the connection was. Alley Pallet. The chicken. Do you have the lovely Irish lady that does the fruit and veg? Joe Chickens. I don't get chicken from her. Yep. And she's in Kent? Yes. Yes. We have the same girl. I love her. Do you need her number? Yeah, fucking do. Yeah. She's not allowed to do meat on ours because we've got Steve, the butcher. Joe Chickens. She'd hate it if she knew I was calling her Joe Chickens. But you know what? She's mentioned you at the farmer's market. Oh, how funny. That is funny. Yeah. Yeah. that's so funny she's a lovely lady I love her we always have a chat I hear about when she goes to see her kids in LA she's a great woman and her granddaughter who's like amazing horse woman horse girl they're great and her I don't know if they're grandsons or whatever they're very handsome charming boys I don't think I've met them oh right okay but how can she be up here and up there because you must have it on Sunday and I have her on Saturday oh my god I'm going to go and say speak to her this Saturday that's so funny and you'll speak to her on Sunday I will Now we are going to give you some pud.

40:01Lennie Ware: Sounds great. It's not very exciting now. I feel kind of... Why? Because we've got foodie over here. Well, it's a yoghurt orange cake. That sounds delicious. It doesn't look very exciting, but I think it might taste... It looks a bit like a school dinner tray, though. Yeah, yeah. But I don't think... It looks like what you're going to have custard with, cake and custard. That's okay. It's literally two cups of custard sugar. Yeah. One cup of olive oil. Okay. One cup of yoghurt. three eggs and three cuts of flour all put together with orange zest which cookbook is it? I have no idea, I saw it on Instagram I think it's a Taverna one and then on top is supposed to be a glaze which doesn't look very glazed to me which is icing sugar and orange juice so it's sort of like a lemon drizzle but orange drizzle but with yogh an orange drizzle so before we let you go back to the old Vic.

41:00Lennie Ware: What is a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere? Well, I think it would be the fondue that my uncle made. I didn't, I used to hate fondue when I was a kid. And maybe that's partly why it's nostalgic. You know, it was a real thing where you were party to all the adults around the table and you were the kid. And I love that shared pot, you know and um my uncle he does a shallot in his fondue and uses vacherin and gruyere I think and um wine sometimes he'd put champagne in instead if he had like something that was left over or whatever what's the other booze that you put in and then we'd serve it with like as a kid not drinking alcohol my favorite I loved water but you can't drink it with fondue because it makes your stomach go, like it congeals.

41:54It's a bit gross. So it's wine or tea and kirsch. We'd have kirsch. So you dip your bread in the kirsch and then dip it in the fondue. I've always put kirsch in the fondue. That sounds so fun. And it's really, I mean, you get wasted. But it's such a great, I love the whole thing of dipping. It's like a lucky dip. Someone loses their bread. You've got to fish it out. And then the crusty bit at the bottom. and then he would break an egg and it was called La Roudigieuse and you mix it, the very last remaining bit of cheese mixed with the egg and it's so delicious. It's great. And that smell, he used to have one once a week and of course that's not good for his heart.

42:35His doctor told him to stop. But every time I go to Switzerland, I wish I could still have that. Yeah.

42:43Lennie Ware: I don't think I've ever really had a fondue. Oh, I used to do them all the time. It was a very, very 70s thing to do. It's quite tasty. It's really tasty. It's light. It's like a perfect with a cup of tea. It's really lovely. It's really nice. It reminds me of the Topath lemon cake that I do. Yeah, it's really nice. Oh, that's nice. It's quite light, isn't it? It works. Do you think the girls would like some? I think they'd love some. Okay, fine. That would be really lovely. Do you ever have raclette? I love raclette. My cousin gave me a raclette machine. So we have done that for dinners. Is that with potato?

43:16No, it's a big potato. potato and then gherkin. A big piece of cheese and you scrape it off. You grill it. It's grilled cheese, basically. Oh, yeah. But I've struggled to get really good quality, strong raclette cheese.

43:29Lennie Ware: My friend T, who is a connoisseur of all good things, she's found a Swiss cheese place on Jamaica Road, like really near here, that apparently is really good. So you can maybe go there in between matinees from the old Vic. Indira, thank you so much for coming on and being such a great guest. and congratulations on your run and good luck with the press nights and the rest of the previews. You were really phenomenal in it and the cast are absolutely brilliant. Well, thank you for having me. It's been a delight. Any opportunity to talk about and eat food is a joy. It's been such fun. So much fun.

44:06Thank you. And delicious.

44:22Lennie Ware: Oh, Indira was just so fantastic. I loved her enthusiasm about theatre and about the play. The food. And food. She was just a fantastic guest. Yeah, just gorgeous dream guest. Cake was really nice. Did you like it? Yes, I would like another piece with a cup of tea. Okay, you can have some. And that shatsuka was delicious. So, yeah. It smoked paprika for me. Too much? Made it. Oh. Yeah. For me, that was the thing that made it. You know what? I accidentally put too much paprika in. So maybe. Put too much in again because it made it. It made it a bit kind of, you know, that goulashy, sweet paprika-y taste.

45:01Lennie Ware: A lovely, lovely episode. Loved having her there. Loved hearing about her food choices. I think she knew more about food than me. I'm a bit annoyed that I had. I mean, the shakshake was great, but like. Well, you couldn't have done it. Thank God it wasn't the dry chicken. Oh, my God, that would have been a disaster. That would have been a disaster. It would. But if I'd have known she was so keen on Italian food. No, you avoid it at all costs then. Yeah, then you have to avoid it. That's what you do. Okay. I wasn't going to be deep frying a bloody bit of ricotta. I don't know how she does that.

45:32But, Jessie, do you think you'll ever do a spaghetti vongole? So many of our guests... For the podcast? Yeah, so many of our guests love it.

45:40Lennie Ware: I'd have to finesse it at home first. Yeah. spaghetti is kind of a difficult one because if you want to make the emulsion and stuff you've got to kind of work it and I've got work to do on the podcast yes thank you to Indira Varmer for coming on the podcast and being such a fantastic guest you can go and see her and the all female cast of Glengarry Glen Ross at the Olvik until mid July she really is fantastic and you see her in a very different light the character of Shelley Levine she portrays so brilliantly so yeah, go and see her and we'll see you next week for more Table Manners

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