Jacob Collier

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1:05Hello and welcome to Table Mines. I'm Jessie Ware. And I'm here eating a whole bag of crisps before dinner. Yep. Delicious. Okay. Lenny's here looking divine. Lenny's here been cooking, darling, because Jessie arrived a little late. Well, are we speaking about ourselves in third person now? Because Jessie was busy making a new record and Jessie did the last three. So Jessie says go mmm yourself. So it's all left to Lenny. Oh my God, stop. Oh my God, it's a band breaking up, Mum. Stop. Thank you for your services. It's okay. What's in the menu tonight? A simple meal. Great. But everyone loves it.

1:47So you don't feel too tired by the meal? I'm just clarifying. So there's no shopping, no prepping, nothing. No. Okay, fine. Had a little flirt with Steve and Ginger Pig, didn't you? Had a flirt with Steve and Ginger Pig. Gave me an extra slice. I love that for you. I think actually knowing a butcher well is probably the most life-enhancing attribute you could possibly have. So Steve said, I'll put another one in for you. Thanks, Steve. Thanks, Steve. Love you, Steve. Ginger pig, we love you. So what are we having? So we're having the best ginger pig sirloin, tagliata. What does tagliata mean? It's chopped up, I mean, I think.

2:29I think we've done this a few times, but that's okay. We've done it three times, I think. Russell Tovey. No. Stanley Tucci. No, it wasn't Russell Tovey. It was. It was? Yeah. Oh, and I was giving Rocky meat under the table to keep him. It's French Bulldog, yes. So it's, and I'm going to put some rosemary and lemon on after I've seared it both sides just as a little juice with all the juices from the steak. Do you do it with butter or oil? I'm not doing it with anything. I'm going to do it in my new Hexclag pan, darling. Oh, because you are... A Hexclag person. And I actually think... Cousin, the bear.

3:00Yeah, I think it might be better without anything on because it will sear it better. In the hex club? Yeah, I think so. Well, I might put a little bit of oil in. I'm not putting butter in because he doesn't have dairy, darling. Oh. Yeah, well, I'm trying to avoid killing him. He's allergic to peanuts and seems to be allergic to eggs and doesn't eat eggs and dairy. Okay. So everything's done with olive oil. And then I've done a baby jam lettuce and avocado salad. Fat. Then I've done some slow roasted tomatoes and some grilled asparagus. Pardon my carbon footprint. Because I'm sure it wasn't harvested in Kent.

3:40No, it's not asparagus season, is it? No, it isn't. But I really fancied it. And I've done little baby potatoes that weren't very baby. They were very grown up potatoes. And I've done them in olive oil and rosemary and garlic. Yum. So that's very simple. dinner sounds delightful mum um we have jacob collier coming on the podcast now jacob collier if you don't know who he is i don't know where you've been he is a multi-instrumentalist talented soulful musician artist who has collaborated with everyone from stormzy to herbie hancock to Hans Zimmer to Michael McDonald. So Jacob Collier is kind of a big deal.

4:24Okay. And you may have seen videos of him where he gets the audience to become a choir. Now think about thousands of people singing and these are people that are coming to enjoy an artist but they are having to partake and the sound he gets out of them is stunning. So we have the brilliant Jacob Collier coming up. He's got a new album out called it's d j e s s e but i'm gonna say it's jesse jesse volume four and and it's got sean mendes on it it's got stormzy it's got michael mcdonald it's um he's got a new single out with camilla camilla who parker bowls she's just she's like share she just calls herself camilla um but that's coming out um in february so he's got yeah he's got the album coming out later in february and the single coming out so i think he's coming on to talk about some of his music but he knows the drill he's going to be fed we talked about food jacob collier coming up on table

5:32jacob collier is here in so much color and making me very happy yeah you've really cheered up this yeah that's good to hear thank you yeah is that a rainbow vape on your neck it would appear to be it's in fact a rainbow ocarina and it goes i was once at a party in new york city i think it was yeah and i was approached by this girl extremely intoxicated just very having a merry old time who was convinced it was a vape and i and she said oh can i have a go on it and i thought she meant like give it a two you were like oh my god the girl of my dreams i was like go ahead and then she kind of went and i said no you're supposed to sort of breathe out you breathe out into it and it was Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

6:11And it just didn't make a sound. And then we kind of parted ways. And that was the end of the story. She wasn't for you, Jacob. She wasn't for me. But that's okay. Ocarina, isn't that what Zelda has? Ocarina of Time. Is that... Yeah. That is a thing? Yeah. Yeah, very much so. Do you play Zelda? I used to a lot, actually. I played the one after Ocarina of Time, which is called Wind Waker. Which is where... Is that another music instrument? It was... So Link, who's the main character of Zelda. Yes, I know about Link. I don't think we'd be here at this point of the conversation. Sorry, babes, yeah.

6:35So Link conducts in the air, and depending on the shape that he conducts, it's kind of like up, left, right, whatever, he can change the direction of the wind. And I mean, for so many reasons, I just love this so much. You know, the idea of like magic and the idea of conducting the air. A lot of it was just like, yes, yes, yes. So that was like my main Zelda port. Maybe you should do like the next soundtrack for Zelda. That sounds great. Babe. Yeah. I think I just got you your next week. I'm totally down. I'm totally down for that. Do you always wear colours? Often, yeah, very often. Who knitted your jumper?

7:06I don't know the name of the person. It's beautiful. But I appreciate it. Is it warm? I like pink. It's nice and warm. Yeah. It's a little kind of, how can you put it, high? It's like a, it's almost like a crop top. Yeah, but it's fine. It's chic. It's great. But then it shows off those pants. A little. Yeah, that's true. That's true. And then let's, you've, babes, it's bloody January. I know you love your Crocs, but at least get the furry ones, doll. So I have some furry ones. Are these your own brand ones? They are. These are the Jacob. But how are your feet? You've got frostbite. I've got two pairs of socks.

7:43Tricks of the trade. Tricks of the trade. But yeah, this is the Jacob crock. But I do think that maybe you should do a winter fur version. I would be down. I think that's what they need to do. You're his manager now. This is amazing. I'm just getting all these ideas. Zelda. Winter crocks. Okay. Cheers. You're here. Lovely to meet you. Really lovely to meet you. Thank you for having me. I mean I feel like I know you with your beautiful voice Your voice is Your voice is stunning I was playing mum the song with Michael McDonald on And I went And she went oh Michael And I was like no no that's Jacob Michael hasn't come in yet You've got the gravelly voice there So actually the first person who sings on that song Is my friend Clyde And Clyde is in a band called Lawrence And Lawrence are featured on that song alongside Michael McDonald so you may have mistaken me for Clyde who has an amazing voice does he have a gravelly voice?

8:38he goes whoo whoo whoo whoo which is the Michael McDonnell thing which I adore I think is gorgeous but yeah because lots of your chords are quite Doobie Brothers totally do you love the Doobie Brothers? I adore the Doobie Brothers me too I feel like you love everything though about music yeah there's something to love in everything that's for sure but the Doobies are filled with nutritious chords that album every song on it from which one of theirs do you mean? the one with Waterfall Bleeds Waterfall Bleeds is the best It's my best song, I think. Probably one of my favourite songs. Me too. So it's January.

9:08Yes. And your album's coming out in February. That's true. Why is it called Jessie? She thinks it's not after her. It has a D in front of it, so I know it's not after her. And we've just met. But, you know, volume five. Just a huge fan, yeah. So, well, when I was a kid, my friends used to call me JC. Because that's my initials, Jacob Collier. So it's like, JC, let's go out to the park and play Ultimate Frisbee or something. Was that what you were doing? Things like that in my Bully youth. But anyway, I wanted to create a series of albums, so volume one, volume two, volume three, volume four, that kind of contained all the things I loved about music, which is a lot of stuff.

9:44And originally it was one massive, great big album, and then it kind of sprawled into two and three and then eventually became four. But the idea with it being, yeah, volume one, volume two, volume three, volume four, was each of them are a different kind of universe of sound, different bunch of collaborators, different state. but they're all kind of this adventure that I went on and I'm still kind of going on as this album's just been finished in figuring out what there is to love and what there is to explore with. So it's kind of self-titled in a sense, Jessie being kind of JC but it's also in some ways this kind of external character who's going on this journey that I've kind of populated this world of different things to play with and stuff.

10:20I've learned so much in the last six years making these four records. How old are you? I'm crazy, 29. You're too talented, it's annoying. Really quite. you're an overachiever. Jacob, you're an overachiever. I apologise. Jacob, what was the first instrument you played? Oh, well, I suppose in some ways it was the voice, probably the same with everybody. I'm curious what you would say to this, but for me, I was listening and speaking the same language of music. So I grew up as a child singing everything I could hear, which gradually became sort of more and more dense musical things. So you start by singing notes, and then you want to sing chords, and then you want to sing really dense chords.

10:57so I would layer my own voice on top of itself to be a bit like Michael McDonald actually the way he does those stacks when you were layering it, you were using software already? I was, so I actually got when you were little, how young? so I got Cubase, which is one of the various music softwares when I was seven years old and it was me with my little SM58 and just getting on into the chords and getting filthy with it there's nothing quite like a good harmony and you really dig them oh I dig them so much, it's gorgeous so I spent so much time with just with that whole world and stretching my voice yeah I adored it but piano was important for me growing up too and then bass became more important in my teens played double bass and then I was always kind of tapping on surfaces I've been told I'm not allowed to tap on this table yeah you're behaving yourself so far so yeah and it's really hard so you play drums as well yes he plays everything yeah so on the various albums I've created I tend to play all the instruments it's just one of the things it's one of my hobbies so taking it back to Ultimate Frisbee JC fantasy yeah yeah back in the day where were you and who was around your dinner table and what is a memorable dish from your childhood fantastic question so I actually still live in the house I grew up in when I was one two three years old which I feel really lucky to be able to say so you're still there you there with your parents yeah so I live with my mum and my two sisters and it's been like that for so so so long kind of as long as I can remember you know so all of the primary associations you make as a human like this is a door or this is a tree or whatever they were all formed and forged in this exact home so it's such an intimate place to grow up and there's one room in my house I kind of took it over as my studio space it started just the room with the piano in it so it was with obvious gravity for me but I've sort of since created this this wonderful kind of um kaleidoscope of different things that make sound in this room I've made all five albums I've ever made in this room so hang on so like Stormzy's coming over to Finchley.

12:51Yeah. Michael McDonald's. Michael McDonald's I recorded in Los Angeles. Fair enough, okay, not Michael McDonald. That's a long way. But yeah, I've had all sorts of people. I think Tori Kelly's been over to my house. Umu Sangari's been over to my house. Jojo. I've seen her live. Have you? Umu Sangari went with Jill and Johnny. Yeah. Where did you see her live? At the Barbican. Oh, was it? Yeah. She's extraordinary, isn't she? She's extraordinary. And when she sings, she has all these beads in her hair, and they kind of shake, and they add to the percussion. Oh, it's just extraordinary. She's extraordinary.

13:19Amazing musician. She's kind of like the Queen of Mali. So that's very different from, say, having Jojo around. Yeah. But it's just an amazing room. It's like a shape-shifting room. It adapts to whoever's in it and supports. It's just a magical place. So what were you eating around the dinner table? Yeah, so to get back to your question... I feel like we're going to talk about music quite a lot tonight. Potentially so. And is food very important to you, Jacob, or not? Food has always been very important to me, and none more important than home-cooked food. Okay. If I had to sum up the first, say, 10 years of my life in one dish, I'd have to say it was the homemade apple pie Oh really?

13:52Which just is still now is just Who makes it? Your mum? My mum And does she do a crust underneath as well as on top? Yeah. Or just a crust on top? No so there's a pastry base and then pastry at the top. She's talented. But the thing about that dish is that there's no sugar in it but it's just so unbelievably delicious nonetheless. Because she uses eating apples probably. Yeah she does yeah yeah. Was it quite a healthy household? Yeah I would say so. I would say so So we didn't, well, partly because I'm allergic to nuts. I didn't grow up with a lot of chocolate because I was sort of advised, hey, don't eat chocolate.

14:22I didn't have chocolate until I was 13. And how did that feel? It tasted really weird. It's like, ooh. Because textually, it's quite alarming. It's kind of alarming. You're not used to it. You think, hmm. Slightly waxy, I think. Yeah. Do you like it now? Yeah. Kind of. God. Kind of. It's weird. I just, I never, do you know what? It's a bit like, it's a bit like Disney for me. I just came to it so late on. That you don't get it. that I didn't forge the fundamental roots. So I watch it and it's like, that's so much fun. That's gorgeous. I love the characters. But it's not like, that's my jam. When I see The Beginning of Lion King, it's like, that's an interesting plot.

14:58It's not like this feels like when I was five years old or ten years old. So you didn't watch telly, so you had, I imagine, musical evenings with your family. Plenty of musical evenings. Do your sisters play? Yes, they do. So you'd say... The Carpenters. Yeah, you can say that. Or Von Trapp. You can say that. Von Trapp. So you don't say, let's play something tonight, just for fun. Well, the thing we most like to do, which we still do, is we sing. Oh my gosh. Because there's four of us. So we sing SATB, which is called SATB, which is soprano, alto, tenor and bass. So a lot of the most foundational repertoire for choir is written for SATB, so it's perfect.

15:35What are you, bass? I'm bass. Who takes tenor? My mum sings tenor, because she can get down to like... Selfless. You know, down to these kinds of... Yeah, yeah, she takes one for the team. And then, yeah, my sister Sophie sings alto and Ella sings top soprano. So have you had a sing-song today? We haven't because Ella now lives in Germany. My sister lives in Germany. So we've... So did you lose the alto? Mezzo or soprano? Well, we lost the soprano. Oh, I'm sorry. And so it's all the tunes. Mate, I'm sorry about that. So we have to adapt. Can she ever Zoom with you and just have a little... No, it never works on Zoom, does it?

16:05The latency is tough. The latency is tough. But, yeah, many musical evenings throughout my childhood. But it wasn't just playing or singing. It was just listening and talking as well. Popular music or classical music as well. A mixture. Yeah, I grew up with, I don't know how it was for you, but I grew up with such a massive breadth of music. It was kind of like, there was no difference from listening to, say, Stevie Wonder to listening to, like, Stravinsky, you know, like really amazing classical music, or maybe, like, Joni Mitchell or Bjork. It was just like, this is music. And so I kind of, I was brought up to, in a sense, just kind of embrace anything as welcome.

16:42welcome. But I mean I know you can do anything but I do feel like deep down you're a soul boy. I think there's soul in me for sure. There's a lot of D 'Angelo going on with that Lianne La Hava song. Oh yeah. It's so good. But you know I feel I mean you can do anything and then is it Little Blue? Yes. With Brandy Carlisle that's kind of James Taylor and it's beautiful. Oh thanks so much. Yeah but like you I mean you can do anything but I feel okay so you were doing singing you were eating apple pie. Oh yeah it was a good time. ultimate for this sounds like a really nice childhood it was good fun yeah it was good how was it for you at school when i can imagine that you were so consumed by music was it hard to focus on other subjects yeah school was pretty weird for me and it's funny because since leaving this education system i think i've met more and more people who i feel like are my people who had a similar experience at school of kind of like i just don't think this education system necessarily designed for people who don't want to follow the instructions if that makes any sense and it's funny I think my kind of temperament is to be often quite respectful to people but also I'm quite irreverent so I'll do things in in ways that I don't expect or you don't expect or haven't necessarily been tried and tested before I just I love the edge but I'm also kind of like kind of kind and stuff so I think being at school I didn't want to make people I didn't want to sort of I wasn't a big troublemaker at school I didn't want to cause a fuss are you You're not academic.

18:06I wasn't... You're clever, obviously. I'd say I'm bright in a sense, but I wouldn't say that I wasn't extraordinarily diligent at school. I didn't sort of practice or... But the music department must have thought you were the god. Was there a good music department? Well, I think that they found me quite irritating in a sense because instruments would go missing from the cupboard. It's like, oh, Jacob must have been in. Or, you know, I played drums in my school band, the school concert band. So there's 60 students and, you know, you get handed out the music. And I've never been that good at reading music.

18:32And so the music was on the stand and, you know, the part just sort of was like really basic, kind of like for the whole five minute piece. And I'm just thinking, you know, and then it just really got under the skin of the conductor thing. Are you serious? Just can you please just read the part? You know, so I think there was like a love hate thing with me and the various music departments. No, no, it was a really bog standard state school with every kind of person you can imagine. and I kind of loved that because it kind of well it takes the it takes the edges off but it also gives you an access point to so many different kinds of people in the world it's like how do you think about this how do you think about this and I think now I think in a sense it was good for me but did you go to college I went I did half a degree in the end and then I kind of escaped halfway through what was the degree well the degree was in jazz piano at the Royal Academy of Music which sounds very academic and in a sense it was it was it's a really prestigious and beautiful institution that my mum studied out and her father studied that too so I was like third generation at the academy and the jazz course is interesting because it's um jazz for starters is a big word and I also have never really thought of myself as a jazz musician I think I just thought myself as somebody who loves sound and chords and stuff and so in the on the jazz course you learn a lot of old songs you know like autumn leaves and all the things you are and stellar by style these are really classic classic old songs and then you learn how to improvise over with them all sort of things like this but I think I was it was kind of like by day I was studying jazz and then by night I was like building this like cathedral of of ideas of just like oh I really want to do this I really want to do this and and every day on the day on the way to school I would listen to a whole album start to finish on the way home I'd listen to another album through all the way through from start to finish and so I did like thousands of albums it's like a dual process one was like in the classroom doing the thing and following the instructions and then the other was like building the inner world and i just always be so excited at that that process like build a world that feels true to you what was the album that maybe made you think i'm not gonna i'm not gonna get on the tube tomorrow or the bus tomorrow to go back to i'm gonna stay in and yeah was there a particular album where you're like you know what sod this i'm not going back to wrong um i remember when i did the whole of the beatles discography in one week like that was a big week it's a big week of the beatles the whole beatles in a week and and you know it starts off real chipper and all the great songs you know but and by the end it's just like so deep and psychedelic and kind of oh it blows your mind it blows your mind and so i think by the end of that it's kind of like what is music you know like what can music do this is just such a massive thing are you hungry joker i'm gonna start i could do some food okay okay Okay, I'm going.

21:15On the menu today. Oh, yeah, okay, yeah. What's the situation? We're having tagliata, which is steak. Beautiful. With rosemary and lemon. Yeah. It's done at the end. Would you mind it a little bit rare? Fine, yeah, yeah, totally. Okay, so we're having that. We're having them with some smashed potatoes. They're not smashed. Oh, they're not smashed. They're just roast new potatoes. Fair play. Fine. Salad, slow-roasted tomatoes, some asparagus, you know. You've got, yeah. The whole cohort. Yeah, exactly. Whilst mum is busy with the steak, we haven't really talked about food yet. No, I know. It's true.

21:51And I kind of thought this may be the case and I'm loving hearing about your music. It's enthralling. It's amazing. Would you say you're a big foodie? I would say food has always played a very essential part of my life. But the reason it's never got like under my skin is because I've never really cooked very much. Okay. And so I think there's an intimacy with food that you could only get from making it. So, okay, you don't really cook. So I don't cook, but I eat avidly. And I would say actually a huge part of my childhood, not only were the apple pies and spaghetti bolognases and the roast chickens, all that kind of stuff.

22:25But fruit, actually. I'm a massive fruit bat. Okay. I always have been, always will be. So what would be in the fruit bowl of Jacob Collier? So many things. I mean, mango is number one. Always, always number one. huge advocate of mangoes over here pomegranates would be number two i'd say love them just like outrageous like the rubies of the fruit literally the pearls how does that how did that come to be and then when they start putting it on savory stuff it just got even better didn't it yeah i've never had a dish with pomegranate in where i where the pomegranate has been unwelcome you know what i mean it always adds something yeah i like that something to aspire to so maybe you need to start with pomegranate being one of your ingredients yeah that's my core that's my core ingredient that'd be a unique a unique menu i'd be offering i like you just have to go to otolenghi you'll be all right yeah exactly totally totally um okay so so yeah mangoes pomegranates um kiwis but i mean it's just like the feeling of my mum cutting me an apple before school just quartering the apple and like handing you know like i can't i can't describe the joy of that feeling it's pure comfort for food for me it's just you think hey it's a bit of apple so when i when i play shows and the rider it's just fruit for me you know it's like mangoes pomegranates apple and then i have like hummus and guac and a bunch of pitas or flatbreads or whatever grand manier limoncello root beer and we're done limoncello yeah i guess it's a fruit yes a fruit i think it's because it's fruit adjacent you are the only person that i know that is having limoncello on their rider.

24:00Are you serious? And you're like in your 20s. Yeah, yeah. That's like a kind of like, I feel like an elderly mafioso. Like, I mean, I'm into this. Yeah, I think there's like a mafioso version of limoncello, but also it's just so delicious. Oh, I disagree with you, babe. You don't like it? I find it quite like medicinal. Too tangy? No, it's not the tang. It's like, it feels like it's like medicine. I don't know. So you've got limoncello. What's your other booze on your rider? Grommarnier, orange liqueur. Another fruit. I didn't realise until you said this. I'm a success. But Grommarnier is special.

24:36What are you having with Grommarnier? Just neat. Is that kind of like the musical prodigy version of like Cavourcier or something? What's that? You know, all the kind of hip hop lot have Cavourcier. It's like grab the Cavourcier, which is a brandy. Oh, it's a brandy. So you have Grommarnier. Honestly, you're blowing my mind with your idea. I'm kind of into it. Are you touring a lot this year? Yes. How are you feeling about it? I adore it. So it's okay? I love it. I didn't used to love it. And it changed once you included the audience and you felt... How many band members do you have now? Six. Okay.

25:12Yeah, so it's seven of us on stage. We're adding one from last... Last year was six in total, so five. This year is seven in total, so six. What was the instrument that got added? Guitar. Specifically, like, electric guitar. But there are actually four guitarists in the band. I'm one of them. but we all play in a different way. So it's, yeah, it's quite a dynamic bunch of people. We also all play lots of instruments. We often trade, we'll trade instruments throughout the show. It's really, really fun. So how does it work with all your collaborations? You know, will, how do you perform those songs?

25:45Do you have someone in the band singing the Brandy Carlisle or the Shawn Mendes bit? Yeah. Yeah, I've got a really capacious... Or do they all come out in different cities? Well, if there's a special occasion gig, like at the end of this show I'm playing at the O2 and I'm going to try and get them all to come out for that because it's just a mad time but I think for most of the time I've got a band that's kind of specifically designed to cater for all sorts of different kinds of voices so I've got three incredible women on the front line of my band there's Alita Moses who's just unbelievable R &B singer there's Erin Bentledge who's like an extraordinary folk and jazz singer and there's Lindsay Lomas so I don't know if you know Lindsay Lomas but she's kind of like a soul it's like the soul and the pop and they all have such different voices but together the the sound is unlike anything you've ever heard so between them they can be like Tori Kelly or they can be like Jesse Reyes or they can be Shawn Mendes or they can be Michael McDonald like they can shapeshift and I deliberately designed a band that could that could do that kind of morph into whatever was necessary you know I'm intrigued about the audience being the choir because I mean it's amazing what you do oh thanks when did that start great when did you realize that you could get a whole room of potentially tone deaf people yeah yeah to sing like an army of beautiful voices well I guess it began in the one-man show days yeah where as I mentioned it was like this process of coming out of my shell learning about audiences and I think when I first started out a lot of the my audience were musicians like they loved music so much yes that was like that was the core of my fan base when i started so they wanted to sing and they not only wanted to sing they wanted to sing harmonies right so i'd get them to do a call and response or i'd sing one of the songs and they'd be singing along so i i think at a certain certain point i realized well okay if you you guys just keep singing that i'll loop you over and i'll sing this and then actually you sing this and so i'd have two parts of the audience doing different things and stuff and over the course of those three years of learning you know this i was at age 20 to 23 like figuring this out and you learn most people what they lack is not skill it's permission to give in that scenario people know what to do if you just say you can do this yeah genuinely you can do it they do it and it's like magic and if you it's magic there's nothing like group singing is there like group dancing group singing it makes everyone feel happy it's it's so good for the soul and um yeah i think i think for me it was just like this realization that i was at my happiest on stage when everyone was singing in the audience i i think i've always felt kind of strangely about this idea that you're like there's a hierarchy between you on the stage and you you do the performance and the audience just sits and has to just sit pretty and watch it's always been really weird to me i think you know i remember seeing have you seen that queen video from live aid in a 1985 at some of it at there's this legendary moment after the first song where Freddie Mercury, I think he improvises it, but he just does this cool response.

28:47He goes like, yeah, yeah. And everyone goes, yeah, yeah. And it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or whatever it is. I remember watching that as a teenager being like, that is the coolest thing I've ever seen. Because every single person in that whole room feels welcome. They feel involved. They feel like they have an access point to the music. And they feel seen. I'm like, I'm here. I'm a voice. I'm a pixel in this image. So I always had that as a North Star. and have just figured out techniques to make people comfortable. If they see other people around them doing it or they hear other people around them doing it, it kind of buoys them up into doing it more.

29:21It's easiest in like proscenium theatres or like indoor venues with ceilings because when you sing, you hear, it's like this reverb basically, you hear the voices come back to you so people feel even more encouraged. The hardest is outdoors. So at Glastonbury, I literally did not know if that was going to work or not. It did work. It did work and I was blown away. But I walked to the front of that stage in that blazing hot, like 35 degrees sunshine and I just gave it the best I could. I was expecting it to be kind of like, okay, well, thanks so much. We tried, you know. Did you know what you were going to get them to sing?

29:58Yeah. I planned a route through. It's a systematic approach in a sense. There are three parts to the audience. I give each part a note and then I move each part, the note up and down using my fingers and my eyes so I'll say you up you know and then they go up. But that's the thing that I found so amazing you're not telling you're not telling what no to do. I don't say a word no I don't. That's what's so amazing and they know the intuition they know. Everybody knows you could say enough people knows that the others will follow and once people realize oh so that means you go high and that means you go down then it's like the great it's like it glues it glues together and And there's an amazing process when you say, okay, up.

30:41And then it kind of ripples. It kind of goes, as everyone instantaneously gets it. And yeah, outdoors is always harder than indoors because there's no reflective surface. So it just kind of goes up into the heavens and that's the end of the story. So how will the O2 be? It'll be all right. I think it'll be awesome because there's a big old ceiling in the O2. Do you, I mean, apart from having like maybe a few fabulous guests in there, will you be ambitious with your audience? Because you believe in them. I'll go all the way in. And that will be the last show of the year. so I'll be in shape at that point as well.

31:10I would have trained myself up for that moment of 20 ,000 people. You're being a conductor at that stage. Yeah, exactly. So let's talk about food on tour. Yes. You've probably travelled around the world right by now. Yeah, yeah. Where do you go a lot? Do you know, the city I've played most in in my whole life is Tokyo. Oh, I'm so jealous of you. I've played the most shows in Tokyo, which is so good for many reasons, but sushi is number one for me. Oh, the food is fantastic. And do they sing? Do they go for it? They do sing. I did a really funny gig in Osaka, actually, in 2022. And it was right when COVID was kind of ending.

31:50And there was a ban on audience participation, vocal participation, because it was expelling air. Did you defy that? Well, I did actually defy that. Jake! I know, I know, I know. Well, I didn't until the very, very end of the show because basically what they said is if you are seen to encourage singing, we will pull the power from the show. Okay, fine. That's like your thing. That's the show. But anyway, we got to near the end of the show and I improvised an equivalent thing with clapping. So it would be like... And they would do it. It was cool. And then right before the end of the show, I did an encore and then I was just kind of like...

32:33And then I got away with that. I got some sort of fuming eyes from the side, from the security, but we got away with it. And you've been invited back since? I haven't played enough soccer since. But I don't think it's for that reason. But yeah, Tokyo. The food? The food. Is there a first stop? The audience is on the food. Gosh. The thing with Tokyo that I find magical is that you can walk into any sushi spot and it's going to be amazing. But sometimes the best ones are the ones that aren't the fanciest looking, you know, because there's lots that look really fab. and you know it's like hey come to the best sushi in town but we found a place last time we were there we were there in august 2023 place show in tokyo amazing it was amazing experience and there was a little kind of dive sushi place really close to the hotel and you know you've you land tokyo from london it's like a really long trip you're exhausted you don't want to get in the cab and go into shibuya or anything you just want to roll out the hotel and see what there is so we found this place and it was i kid you not it was the best sushi i've ever had in my life and we went four times and it was so good are you a creature of habit yeah yeah if i find yeah my mom would definitely say this too about me it's like if she cooks a meal that i like once i will just eat that meal every day so the last three days i've eaten pasta with tomato sauce because i just love it and i just don't get bored of it and i even had leftovers for lunch today as well pasta and sauce so so on did your mom do a big batch or you just have to you've just requested it.

34:02No, no, she did like a big batch. And you've just been loving it. We're just guzzling it down, you know. Look at this. Oh, mum, that looks good. That looks good. Please help yourself, Jacob. Thank you so much. This is just so amazing. Would you like some more champagne? I could do a top-up champagne. That would be great.

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35:29That's Mum, whilst you were cooking, we were talking about Jacob's places that he, I mean, he's touring loads. Do you like Japan? Oh, I love it. I love it so much. Why? I think what fascinates me about Japan is the underbelly. It goes on the top. It's very clean, organised, people are very hardworking, very respectful. And then when you dig in, they're underneath. It's like crazy. Bonkers. Crazy. You know, there's like, there's robot kind of DJ sets. Yeah, did you go to the robot show? No, I didn't. Not this last time. But I've heard such legendary things about them, and they're just... It's just bananas, you know.

36:02Even just karaoke-ing in Japan. It's just another level. Which leads us, actually, onto a question that we ask everybody. We usually ask at the end. It's my favourite. Go on, Lenny. Do you like karaoke? Well, you probably do if you're in Japan. Yeah, I... Do you ever do it? I never really seek it out, but when I find myself in it, I'm always feeling like, I forget that this is fun, you know. What's your song? I, well, I've sung a whole new world, actually, speaking of Disney, a whole new world. and I've never been to a karaoke bar where I've had to perform a song by myself so I tend to do a whole new world with, like there's one particular friend of mine his name is Michael who sings the, I sing the girl part he sings the boy part, really really fun It's not you and Michael McDonald doing bloody karaoke in Tokyo No it's not but that does sound like a fun day out What would be your karaoke song Jess?

36:50Whenever somebody else says one I'm like oh that is a good one I don't really like the rapping thing, doing that Do you rap? I mean, I rap in a Jacob-y way, I suppose. Does Stormzy rap? Yes, Mum. He does. He also sings. But I've heard him sing. Stormzy rap's better than almost anyone in the world. Really? Oh, yeah. He works with Jacob a lot. I love that man. Did you get him into singing? No, but I did. Well, I made his latest album that came out. It's called This Is What I Mean. He was made on this island, Osea Island, which is off the east coast of Essex, I think. It's a crazy, beautiful place.

37:26you only get to the island during about two hours of the 24-hour cycle because the ocean covers up the road so once you're on there you're basically just on there and Stormzy assembled his kind of like a team of producers arrangers songwriters artists to help him craft this album and to my total amazement and delight he invited me to go so I went to this island 2021 and he was he played me some demos where he was singing you know and he's got his beautiful voice very vulnerable really just like straight from the heart and so he kind of entrusted me with a few of those songs to kind of decorate around him to sing and to bolster so I kind of I got to know his voice quite well yeah on that trip and so when I was finishing this song of mine which is called witness me that came out recently with Sean and Stormzy and Kirk Franklin I kind of knew I wanted him to sing a chorus because I know I know what that would have what that meant but yeah he's he's a he's really he's a rap titan miss stormzy have you done any film scores i have done a few film scores yeah yeah here and there films that i'd know do you know the boss baby films yes so i've actually in boss baby 2 i scored a whole there's a whole scene uh where the characters are jumping around in this musical which i scored myself and then the boss baby one i helped out her in there but i'm a good friend of hans zimmers so hans will often call me up and say hey i need um some i I need a little bit of sprinklage, you know, on here and there.

38:47And so I tend to oblige. What fun. Really, really fun. Really fun. If you could live in any other period for music, I mean, I feel that you enjoy this time of music because I think you enjoy all the technology. But if there was another time in music, when would it be? See, I feel privileged because I was born in the 50s and grew up in the 60s. You've got a good era. It's a good haul. I think, you know, living the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, David Bowie. I mean, what more could you want? And then all the black music that was so wonderful. Well, then Stevie and then Prince and Earthman and Fire.

39:22I mean, I'd probably go back then, to be honest. I mean, just as a listener, as a lover of listening to music. As someone who makes music, there's just no better time than now. Food, Jacob. Okay, Last Supper. Darling, more while you say that your mother. Last Supper. This is hard. No, it's not that hard, Jacob. It is a hard question. Come on, okay. okay starter what's it called in sushi when you have the is it yellowtail yeah that you get on it's like it comes flat on the plate yeah with and it's so like it's just so flavorsome there is a name for that i don't think i know it what like the sashimi yellowtail that you'll have like without the rice you have it with the kind of almost like is it ponzu sauce or yuzu like yeah yeah there's something there's something like that it's not maybe a jalapenos on there i think it might be that it's not like it's not straight sashimi it's like i always seem to get it at beginning of a meal in sushi but that starter like little whatever whatever it is yellowtail something on the plate with all this amazing flavor that is just it just gets no better for me than that where have you had the best yellowtail it's either los angeles or tokyo okay tell me you're your los angeles spot it's called kampai oh there were two kampais in la one of them is the one and the other one is is also great but it's not the one the one i think it's actually near LAX.

40:37Kampai. Kampai. Who took you there? My dear friend and first manager, Adam Fell, who's still on my management team, he's obsessed. He's obsessed. And so we went there. They have like a room at the back. Just you need to get there, darling. You have the Omakasi and you're like, yeah. There's the whole haunt. And it's because Adam knows the owner. The owner is a huge fan of Quincy Jones and Quincy Jones is Adam's boss. So Quincy was my manager in a sense, my first manager. Quincy was your first manager? Well, yeah. Yeah, I signed to Quincy Jones Management. That was how I kind of began my journey.

41:09Le Fleur. I mean, he's the greatest. Where did you meet him? I met him in Montreux, Switzerland. A jazz festival. Yeah, because he saw a YouTube video that I made. Yeah, it reached him. And he also reached Herbie Hancock, who's another one of my absolute heroes. Me too. And I flew to Montreux 2014 when I was 19 years old. And I met both of them there. Were you performing in Montreux jazz festival? I just went to meet them. Oh my God, this is so romantic and fair. I just went to meet them. So Quincy flew me out. Can you imagine? Quincy flies me to Montreux. What did your mum say? Well, I'd never been on a plane by myself.

41:44You know, it was like... You were an unaccompanied minor. Well, you were a minor. I was 19, Jessie. I know, but like... Did you go on your own? I did go on my own. That's really brave. I would have been terrified. It was a little scary, but I went on my own. I met the great man. I met both of them. And I ended up playing in the jam session. They have a Montreux jam session. It's a legendary jam session. I ended up playing a little jazz tune called My Funny Valentine, which I played on the piano. And Quincy got up before I sang and said, hey, this guy is, to me, this is the future of everything I love about music.

42:14This is Jacob Collier. And that was the first time I'd ever been introduced ever in public. And I played that tune. Did you sing as well? I sang it, yeah. I played and sang My Funny Valentine, all this stuff. And it was just a moment. It was just a moment. Oh my God. And so I began working with him kind of shortly after that. I was really hesitant about it all. I didn't want to go into the music industry and be a big star and have someone take me under their wing and sign to a label. I just wanted to do the thing I wanted to do. And Quincy was just this amazing guy who was able to say, you do you, Jacob.

42:45I'm not going to get in the way. And it was for that reason that he got me. So I signed with his team. Adam has been president of that company for 20 years or so. And the guy who owns Kampai is a huge Quincy Jones fan, close friend of Adam's. So Adam always gets the special backroom of the restaurant. I love this. Yellowtail. That is a very cool starter, Jacob. Thank you for that. Yeah. We've got a little pud for you. Mmm. Actually, Mum, you couldn't have played this better for Jacob. Right here. Because he likes fruit. I adore fruit. So it's just fruit, babe. This is very serendipitous. Here, darling.

43:24What have we got? What have we got? It's just little... Little... It's a compot, isn't it? with apple and black, black. But like, a thing like that will do you nicely. And this is coconut yogurt. Oh, yeah, I'll get into that. So does that mean it's not dairy? It's dairy. Yeah, yeah, that'll be great. I'm so terrified. Just one, darling. Right, you've got a spoon, and that's coconut, whatever it is. Maine. Maine. It's so hard to say. I'd probably say the Maine would be spaghetti bolognese. You know what? You and Michael McIntyre, babe. Really? Yeah. There you go. I love spaggolets it's one of my favourite homemade spaggolets it just doesn't get better than that does your mum do anything particular how do you manage without parmesan oh it's fine it's great well first of all dairy free cheese is getting on a pretty good level nowadays that's one thing but I think when my mum does a tomato sauce of any kind it's just so many good vegetables in there and it's stacked full of just deliciousness you never tasted parmesan I have tasted Parazane I'm just shit mum do you not like it it's just like I don't know the smell is kind of weird for me oh you see and the texture is kind of I don't know I think unless you get the bug I mean maybe it's like Disney and all these other things cheese and Disney unless it hits you early and chocolate unless it hits you early it's like it doesn't get under your skin and then you don't crave it and then it's like do I really need it probably not everyone needs Disney everyone needs Disney I love Disney so much right okay main bolognese It has no sugar in.

44:58My mum would be proud. It's really nice, mum. It's really refreshing and just yummy. Thanks. That has definitely got dairy, but that's coconut. I'll stick with the coconut. Yeah, that sounds good. I love that little expression. What? Tastes like no other. Yeah, it's good. Tastes like no other. So pudding, is it going to be your mum's apple pie? I would say so, but I would say, can I do like two puddings? Of course you can. So it would be my mum's homemade apple pie with, honestly, probably just like a massive fruit, like the best fruit platter in the world. Just like all the stuff. We've got pomegranates, we've got mangoes, we've got berries, kiwis, we've got everything.

45:37With Bailey's ice cream. Oh, I love Bailey's. But how can you have that? I can't, but I do. This is my last supper ever. Give me a chance. Yeah. So Bailey's ice cream, Jacob Collier. Come on, what can I say? That's it. It's like, I don't know, it's like kind of looking at you like you're Pat Butcher now or something like that. I kind of like it. It's a twist, it's a twist. So what would be your drink of choice? Would it be? Throughout the meal? Lemon chow. You can change it up, babes. Okay, let's start with dessert. Okay. Sautern. Oh, I love Sautern. Is that a dessert wine? Dessert wine. Sweet white wine.

46:12Sautern is the greatest, the greatest for me. I love it so much. But do you know, in the old days, my auntie used to bring Sautern for our Christmas dinner. Yeah. Before people drank. We have a Christmas dinner too. that's what we do that's what we do huge fan okay we're working backwards okay so that's my dessert drink for main what am I having bolognese you have sake with your yellow fin hold on we're not there yet we're going backwards that's the start of that no we'll get to that in a second okay get to that in a second for my main meal for bolognese yeah hmm not red wine just let the guy speak I'm trying to help him no red wine's a great shout I can maybe a dark red wine would be quite nice I'm also just a huge root beer fan Do you know about root beer?

46:54I mean, I can't say I've partaken in it Really? So no Oh, it's wonderful I don't think I've ever tried root beer It's another one of the It's quite polarising Some people just cannot Where did you have root beer? And who were you Which jazz legend were you with having a root beer? Well, I first had root beer in Los Angeles in 2006 Who got you into root beer? I think it was just on tap at the diner we were at And I thought, oh yeah, I'll try that It's more alcoholic Do you have like a float? Did you have like ice cream on tap? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah Well, not the first time, but then I got into root beer floats later.

47:23But root beer is really, it's made out of licorice. Okay. It's not for everyone, but it's for me. It's for me, for sure. Maybe we'd have root beer with the main. Do you know what? What? Okay, either root beer or there's a really prevalent soda in Vienna, Austria, called Almdudler. It's only in Austria. What is it? And I played a show in Vienna in the summer this year, and it was in my hotel room. There was a bottle of this Almdudler. Honestly, I think I'd actually say Almdudler over root beer. though I love root beer. Almdudlow, it's like a combination of all my favourite stuff. It's like an elderflowery, gingery.

47:57Ooh, lovely. Like a lemonade-y, kind of like a bit like apple-tise-y. It's just like a... Of an appetiser. Oh yeah, but it's such a great combination of all these different drinks and it just slaps. It just slaps. And it's like refreshing. Could you, like, what spirit could you have with that? Do you feel like it would work? Honestly, anything. You could totally mix that with whiskey. You could mix it with rum. I'd probably mix it with rum. That's what I do. Rum? Yeah. because it has like the rounded sweetness, you know? This sounds great. What's it called? I think that was an Alm Dudler. I actually, I loved it so much that I ordered like a crate.

48:28Yeah. I imported a crate from Vienna to London and I have it in my house. Have you drunk all of it? No. I've drunk about half of it and the crate arrived in the summer and I haven't been home that much, so that's my excuse. Okay. I love that. Okay. It's great. And then for starter. It's not like when you buy Ouzo in Greece and then you drink it. It tastes like crap. It tastes terrible when you're not by the sea. I've had that exact experience with ouzo, actually. No, but for starter, I mean, like, sake is the obvious choice, but honestly, like, we had champagne today, which is delicious. Kia Royale.

48:57Do you know Kia Royale? Yeah. Champagne with a little black... You're a little fruity thing, aren't you? Yeah, yeah. Blackcurrant disease, yeah. Jacob Collier, that was a decent Last Supper. I would say it was eclectic. Global. Global. Global, I love it. I love it. A global dinner. If we were going to come over to your house Yeah, you're welcome anytime Thanks, do a sesh What would you cook for us, Jacob? Me cook for you Oh God, you look terrified That's like somebody saying to you, go and do improvise Go and do a jam I'm like, meh, meh, meh No, he doesn't cook I mean, I would make you beans on toast I like beans on toast Or crumpets and tomato soup Crumpets, you have for your tomato soup What's your favourite tomato soup?

49:46Just Heinz. It might be the Heinz, yeah. For me, it's still at rocks. Heinz Marlissup rocks. Dip the crumpet in, and it kind of goes in the holes of the crumpet. Yeah. Great. Really good. Are you a Marmite fan? Never really got into it. But I wouldn't say I'm, like, averse to Marmite, like all the... No, yeah. Love it or hate it, yeah. Yeah, I never really had a chance to properly judge it, maybe. Are you going to Australia anytime soon? Maybe next year, I think. Vegemite, try that. Maybe you'll prefer that. Vegemite. Yeah. Okay. It's like slightly less umpfy. Jesse loves the food in Australia me too Melbourne is just so good Melbourne's like New York a bit you kind of go anywhere and it's going to be stunning the thing about Melbourne which I love is that every single cafe is like a one off hipster experience there's not like chains in the same way I love it you know you're in for a treat no matter where you end up it's going to be amazing where are you most looking forward to eating on your tour great question Is it Japan?

50:45Or is there anywhere else that you're going? This year, I'm not trying to go to Japan this year. I think I might swing by Korea this year. Swing by, love that. Get some face masks, babe. Best skincare, yeah. Really? Yeah. Hydrate that skin on those long holes. That's where your brother wants to go this year. I really want to go to Seoul. Yeah, that's the thing. I might be going in March. How fun. Yeah, just for promo, actually. Because this amazing group is Esper. Do you know Esper? They're like a K-pop super group of today. Oh, K-pop. absolutely wild are they on your record? they are there's a song with Chris Martin and Esper crikey yeah and it's quite a combination how did you combine them?

51:22oh my god that's like a super group it's wild so have you met Chris Martin? he's one of my dearest friends is he lovely? he's absolutely gorgeous yeah but because Esper are just so like they're so massive in Korea we're going to go to Korea in March and try and shoot some video stuff with them and get all that going and I love it good luck with the record thank you very much It's such a pleasure to meet you You too So amazing You're amazing, you're inspiring It's so exciting to see what's going on with you And the collaborations And just how lovely you are I'm still cracking up about your ocarina Somebody thinking it's a fucking vein It was amazing Can you just give us another quick blow on that Yeah okay, here we go

52:10Wow Jacob Collier, JC Thank you so much for coming. It was a gorgeous time.

52:30Wow. What a lovely man. He's just incredible. Just astonishingly bright. Optimistic. Clever. Jacob Collier thank you so much for coming on and just being so wonderful I think maybe he should learn how to boil an egg when he gets home well he's alright with baked beans so he'll be fine Jacob's album Jessie Volume 4 is out on February the 29th and his new single is out with Camilla Mi Corazon is out now thanks Jacob for coming I just said to his manager I was like does he change your mood because I can imagine if you were with somebody so uplifting and positive stops you being in a strop. Yeah. We all need a bit of Jacob Collier in our life.

53:15Yeah, I think we do. Right, we'll see you next week. Thanks so much for listening.

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