James Norton

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2:25Lennie Ware: Hello and welcome to Table Manners, which is our final for season 18. And what a season it's been, Jess. I mean, we've had... Margot. Margot. Malala. Shaka Khan. Gloria Estefan. Started with Reese Witherspoon, went on to Gary Oldman. We thought it couldn't get any better, but it's got better and better the whole season. Thank you to everyone who has listened and watched this season. it's clear to see but we're tired it's time for a break it's time for Lenny to get to Skopalos and have her six weeks in the sun yeah and it's time for me to just get on with promoting my tour so I'll see you in Skopalos for a couple of weeks I'll see you but we thought it'd be fun to finish with a friend I think a very good friend of yours a rather intimate friend Darlene I would have said the brilliant very talented James Norton is coming on the podcast today he's coming on to talk about many things He's got loads of things going on.

3:19Lennie Ware: He's a villain in House of the Dragon. He's also in between filming being Brian Epstein as the Beatles manager and Sam Mendes, like four parts. And he's got one of the best gigs coming up, Hamlet. I mean, I'm interested to hear about whether it's every actor's dream to play Hamlet. He's also in a really beautiful new independent film called Sunny Dancer, which is with Bella Ramsey. And he plays a dad called Bob. so it's a really hot hot hot day so I've decided to do a barbecue because we didn't want to have the oven on I've kind of taken lots of different recipes from different places so I'm mad about this guy Ben Lippett has a book that's a big old bestseller called How I Cook and it's really beautiful this book and loads of people have recommended recipes and I wanted to do some something lamb on the barbecue and so he's got this really nice recipe that is cumin lamb kebabs but it's got szechuan peppercorns in there soy are they koftas no there's pieces of lamb on this it's lamb shoulder and lamb rib oh wow and i didn't realize how little meat you get from a lamb rib and a lot of fat so i did have to like dm him being like am i doing this wrong but he was like no just double it up anyway it's been marinating they're on skewers that's going to go on the barbecue I've done one of my favorite dips that I've been doing for ages but I don't think I've done the podcast John Gregory Smith from his cookbook it's the schmaltzy courgette yogurt dip where you cook the you grate courgettes you put them in the oven and then you put them with the yogurt dill lemon I've put a bit of garlic in there too and it's just delicious so it's kind of it's not as atzequiel at all it's a courgette yogurt dip but it's delish so that's going to go I've got some flatbreads, do some rice.

5:13Lennie Ware: And then I've done from Kitty Coles' book, Make More With Less. She's got this really good, look, I've used it a lot. Ricotta, charred corn and curried onions. Or is it a bit like that Mexican corn thing? Kind of, but not. It does have lime on it and butter. And then I've done from Gil Mellor, who is a Dorset chef that's very famous for kind of outdoor cooking, open fire cooking. but Gil Mellor you sign up to his website and you get different recipes and he did this really delicious looking cucumber recipe that's with green chilies spring onions mint coriander cucumbers that you let all the moisture out for about half an hour and then you do it with a really beautiful vinaigrette so we've got like the crunch we've got some creaminess we've got the spice of the lamb.

6:04Lennie Ware: Oh, yeah, and with the lamb, you do this sesame oil, rice wine vinegar, shredded cabbage. So I think we've got enough. The thing is, I know about James. He likes a lot. He's greedy, like me. Okay. So he did say, when I said, have you got any dietary? Bearing in mind, he is diabetic, so I was like, you know, is there anything we should avoid? He was like, I just want lots. So I hope... You've done lots. I hope I haven't under-catered. And what have you done for food? Pistachios. straticella ice cream. So it's pistachio ice cream with shards of dark chocolate in it. James Norton coming up on Togerman.

6:49Cheers.

6:50Lennie Ware: Cheers. This is a Select. Now everyone, I swear we should be sponsored by Select. Tell me what you think. It's so delicious.

7:02Yeah, absolutely delicious.

7:03Lennie Ware: It's quite delish. Yeah, I love it. Somewhere in between a like... An Aperol Spritz. Aperol Spritz. I was going to say a... What's the other... Campari. Campari Spritz. Also the olive. Thank you for the... Thank you for acknowledging that, James. How are you? How's your morning been? What have you had for breakfast? My morning has been good. I woke up and did a little... P-D-B? Peloton. Oh yeah, P-B... P-B-D. Tell everyone what a P-B-D is. Peanut butter. No. pbd peanut butter dip no it's a pre-breakfast dip basically i swim every morning before breakfast i know it's very very well that's the good question outdoors yeah kind of there's there's ponds okay maybe um so love a natural a natural love a natural swim my family when we were growing up wherever there was a body of water if it was you know the sea or a lake or river and you're in it like a dog.

7:58Lennie Ware: Seawater and you're in. Yeah, like a dog. Yeah, dogs see water and they run in. I have been compared to like a sort of, yeah, manic Labrador quite a lot. And it's always before breakfast. Rain or shine. Oh. I just think it makes the breakfast taste. You're Yorkshire though, aren't you? I am Yorkshire. Yeah, you see, sturdy. Yeah, but that would have been very cold in Yorkshire. I love being described as sturdy. Yeah, no, we didn't do it so much in Yorkshire. We do it on holiday more, like when we go to Cornwall and places like that. and it's just it's become a tradition with kids I sort of loved it and then teenagers I hated it in my teenage years it was always like oh I can't believe I'm from this family and now I love it and it does make my day I just love the feeling of immersing It's a whole community of outdoor swimmers aren't it?

8:42Lennie Ware: Yeah and it's becoming a thing Yeah Do you think all the England team are having cold baths after? For sure Yeah Harry Styles has a big ice bath after his performances you know marathon that he does on stage We have one on set sometimes Do you? Yeah. Don't. Yeah. Just got back from Barcelona and we had one in our unit base. Hang on, but you were doing like night shoots. And were you running around as the manager, Brian Epstein? Were you having to do lots of strenuous activity? I would have thought it would be more for like if you were doing something like very active. Oh, I see. No, I wasn't doing strenuous activity.

9:16I mean, the boys are doing strenuous activity. They're on stage playing. I'm standing watching, you know, being sort of adoring. but once you've stood on set for a long time there's nothing better than getting into some ice some cold water

9:28Lennie Ware: I would say nothing better than getting into a really nice hotel bed Yeah, well Or a bath Yeah, but then I sleep better if I've gone cold I don't know, I'm reptile So you and all the Beatles are getting in the ice tub after a day of shooting or do you all kind of line up and wait? This was a unique situation because we were in Barcelona but yeah, there was an ice bath and it was hot and we would do it at the beginning of the day and then sometimes some people would do it at the end of the day Did you encourage them all to do the PBD? PBD. Yeah, I went PBD because there was the sea nearby. So I did a couple of PBDs.

10:02I was alone on my PBDs. Okay, fair enough.

10:04Lennie Ware: Moving on from Coldwater, family holidays in Cornwall. Who was around the dinner table growing up and what was very memorable dish from your childhood? I mean, if you're talking Cornwall, that's a very specific dinner table because you're talking a house, which was probably probably fit like 10 but I had a very powerful and iconic grandmother called Granny Jean and she had 12 grandchildren and her greatest legacy which actually I'm now so grateful for is that she insisted that all of her four kids and their kids which is the four the 12 grandchildren we all went on holiday like twice a year and we still go on one big summer holiday every single year and this is back in those days we would go she would hire this house in Cornwall and it was as I fit like 10 and there was we we numbered at least like 24 so it was sort of you know three in a bed top and tail sofas camping outside and the table in the kitchen would fit 12 and we would be seating 24 so there would just be like endless tables and you know random bits of wood kind of those chairs it was so fun so chaotic that's where the pbd thing really kicked off and granny jean would be queen matriarch at the head of the table was she cooking um probably not no i think her children delegating probably delegating yeah yeah yeah yeah i think so i mean it was always a bit of a who's going to cook tonight there was always a bit of a hustle but it was my those are my summer holiday memories and so fun like are you going well now it's the isle of white we go down there but everyone gathers and and we all gather really because I think a lot of people are close to their cousins, but we are very close.

11:42We're a big family. We all really stick together. I mean, they're almost sort of siblings in a way. And it's really because of Granny Jean. She just insisted that we all stuck together. And now she's no longer with us, but she's very much sort of remembered in those big gatherings.

11:57Lennie Ware: Who's taken over the mantle of Granny Jean? Your mum or your dad? I think like every family. No, there's no. Oh, in terms of my family, my mum's... it's so funny if I was to say my mum's turned into Granny Jean. I wonder what my mum would say about that. There's no matriarch within that. Like Granny Jean is still very much the hallowed granny. But my mum, yeah, my mum is an amazing cook and an incredible host. So I love hosting. I love big dinner parties. I love big parties. I throw parties at my house a lot. And my mum and dad, that is definitely one of the things they've taught me. They love throwing.

12:35They're very good at it as well. I do.

12:37Lennie Ware: You love a good party. I think we're very strong party people. I think we're generous hosts. Yeah. I mean, we've got one this weekend. Just your sons. Oh, yeah. I mean, guys, you're on series 18 of a podcast, which is all around hosting. Yes, that's true. Okay, so what was a memorable dish that your mum would make when you were growing up? I mean, there's so many. She used to make this like tomato and anchovy quiche, which would be... Oh, wow. which will be that will be made many times because that will be any picnic so it's very Delia yeah wholesome sounds delicious Delia 90s wholesome 90s my sister's a very good cook they both is that Jessica?

13:15Jessie well done oh is she Jessie? no she's Jessie yeah she's Jessie oh yeah yeah yeah very much Jessie they were all down yesterday the day before for Wimbledon very cool

13:25Lennie Ware: where did you go? yeah it was in the Royal Box mum I thought how did you get an invite in the Royal Box Jones? I can't remember how I got invited but my parents are tennis nuts they love it my sister's well and so at the end a lot of the actors leave after like one or two of the sort of showy games and on the day we were there for the first time with my mum it was the women's quarters I think and all my mum's heroes were there Virginia Wade and Billie Jean King all sitting near her they were all around her oh my god so she was just like couldn't believe it and actually my proudest moment one of my proudest moments of my career was we were sitting like three rows back and Billie Jean King was on the front row and she turns around one of the games and she points towards me and my mum and just goes, you, you.

14:05And my mum, I just go, what the fuck is going on? Turns out Billie Jean King is a massive fan of Grantchester. So my mum's there, I couldn't believe that this icon is asking. And then when we went back to the sort of champagne area, bougie, bougie, roll box kind of thing where you basically just get plied with champagne all day. Billie Jean King asked my mum to take a photo of me and Billie. Can you imagine my mum behind the camera going, this is insane. Yeah, it was sweet.

14:30Lennie Ware: So hosting, what would you cook for us if we were coming around to yours, James, for dinner? Right now in the summer, which was daylight today, I have a gas grill and a wood grill. So I would be lighting one of those, probably the gas. Because it's just easier. It's just easier. But I've got a wood one and it's great. I love it. Have you got a Somerset grill? Somerset grill? Yeah, it's called Somerset grill. It's like an asado one. Oh, I don't know. I've just got a hole which my builder's put into my... Oh, great. I've got like an outdoor kitchen, yeah. So I've got a big beef eater gas. Then I've got a homemade wood one, which we just basically plunk a big load of wood fire and then put a grill over it.

15:08It's got a ventilation and a little sink. I love it. I love my outdoor kitchen. I cook on it all the time. I have my mum and dad and sister down, and I cook them a lovely shoulder of lamb on the barbie. Great. So I would definitely have the barbecue lit, and I would probably cook you something, I mean, like halibut steaks, something light.

15:29Lennie Ware: I love halibut. Yeah, I love fish on the barbie. But yeah, probably like halibut steaks with like some nice prawns. And then I would do a wild rice, you know, just rice. I do a lot of like, I guess, kind of Mediterranean sort of sides. So lots of aubergine chard with tahini and lots of salads. I over cater. I never run. I have a weird fear about running out of food. I think maybe it's boarding school or just being a glutton. What's it like at boarding school? that's a big question and we could food oh food no no no we could talk i've spent 10 years talking to a therapist about it um it was good in some ways and challenging and others and and the and the food thing i don't know whether or not it's just having been part of a big family going to boarding school but i definitely don't know about you guys but when i'm served in anywhere restaurant dinner, pie, whatever, and there are two helpings and I'm having the same thing as someone else.

16:29Lennie Ware: You check how big theirs is. My brain will see the same size or even mine being bigger and I will immediately go mine's smaller, mine's smaller, mine's smaller. Me too. But I do that and I do that all the time. What is that about? It's greed. Because we're fucking greedy. It's absolute greed. I'm always looking at, when they serve it at a restaurant, I think theirs is bigger than mine. Every single meal I've ever had. I think, why is theirs bigger than mine? I will make sure yours is bigger today. I will make sure you have the biggest portion. Even if you do that, I will psychologically trick myself and go, Jesse and Lenny have got bigger health things than me.

17:00And then I'll wait and go, maybe they won't eat all of it and maybe I'll have the end.

17:04Lennie Ware: Could you get seconds at boarding school? So if you were a big growing boy, could you have seconds if you were still hungry? I think so. I think there was food. I don't, yeah, I'm sure there was. I mean, you know, the good stuff has probably gone. I do remember my very junior school, where I went, you were only allowed to toast your bread if you were a prefect. Oh, for God's sake. Were you at boarding school or junior school? I went from 11. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I just think I really love food. Didn't you have a big cut box that you're... Yeah, I had a cut box, yeah. I just... I think it's also a big family.

17:41Like, you know, lots of cousins, lots of big older cousins.

17:44Lennie Ware: So everyone's fighting on the table to get stuck in. Yeah, and I just love food. I am a huge... I mean, people who know me do know one of the, I think if you asked a lot of them, one of the things they would put at the top is an appetite. I have an appetite for food and just for everything. I think of myself as a relatively, you know, I feel like my mum and dad in my life, I've been still instilled with a relatively decent, like moral compass. But when it comes to, like, if I'm going to a buffet and there's like, you know, one bit of salmon and there are five people queuing, for some reason my moral compass throws out the window and I will take way more than I am.

18:22It's weird. I don't know. For some reason we feel like I've just become a menace.

18:25Lennie Ware: Buffet breakfast. Even if you're not hungry, you eat everything that you can possibly eat. Yeah, yeah. Hotel buffet breakfast. I know. You feel that you've got to store it up for the whole day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then probably make a couple of rolls for lunch. Oh, rolls for lunch. This is me doing... What are we having carbs? So we're having... Rice is a carb. Okay. The carb is rice and... Flatbread. Flatbreads. Love it. this is for the tight ones out there as you know this is not my phone i'm doing my insulin um and that is done is it just the carbs you need to do no that's good that's good so you've got a little thing on your arm that's like yeah how many do you have to change it every week that changes every three days but so so you've told me that we're having dessert yes great okay that's you need to put that in now top up in a bit oh god almighty i'll just put i just put in the amount Do you think there's been enough progress in addressing type 1 diabetes?

19:20Lennie Ware: Huge. Yeah. You just ran the marathon. Yeah. Yeah. Which made me laugh so much because we came to support you. I know, and I couldn't see you. No, but it was so funny when you were like, everyone is shouting my fucking name. And we're like, James! But you're like, by the end, tell mum about what the end bit was like. Because I got a chest infection the day before. Horrible. and because the first, I thought I was going to have to pull out and then I thought, do you know what, I'm going to do it because I had all these. Because you're doing it for diabetes. Yeah. I had every type one diabetic child in the country giving me all their pocket money.

19:52Oh God almighty.

19:53Lennie Ware: There was no way I was going to pull out and so I was doing the marathon and then every time I, because everyone had me on their tracker so every time I turned a corner I'd be like, everyone would be like, James, James. Well not everyone but quite enough people because they'd see where I was. Yeah, you could have Cynthia Eriva on the tracker, you can have James Norton, you could have Clara, Amfo, and your friends like I mean so we all had our you had me on but every time I came around the corner everyone would be like James James James and then they would see me because basically halfway around this chest infection which was really serious so you felt unwell I felt wretched you must have felt so shit I thought it was going to collapse and so everyone would be like James James and then they would go James James oh god are you alright and I was sort of and I was trying not to collapse I mean my legs were buckling and stuff oh what a shame it's a delivery of some sort but the end just tell me what it's like tell mum what it was like at the end the way you described it what did I have like jumping over bodies that were like passing out oh yeah because literally it's like a war zone there are people because it was so hot collapsed yeah and they're being tended to by paramedics and my legs are buckling I'm just thinking please get to the end and I'm seeing these bodies just going this is fucking horrible it was actually hell did you have anyone running with you that kept you going no I mean I got to the end and it was fine and the most important thing was that you know did it for the dive did it for breakthrough through T1D, which is a charity for kids with diabetes.

21:11And actually, in answer to your question, there is incredible advances because a lot of people in America and there's a lot of money and resources being pushed into it. And I think we're getting closer. So what's your hope for type... My hope is within like 10, 15 years, we won't be administering insulin. We'll have... I mean, there's so many different versions of a sort of cure, but I think we're close. I mean, obviously we're closer than we've ever been, But actually suddenly within the diabetes community, people are like, oh, maybe it actually is getting quite close.

21:41Lennie Ware: So raising money is really important. So we're at that final push. I mean, it's a really weird condition because, you know, it's quite hidden. People don't really know that I'm... When did you get it? 22. 22. And apart from these things, I've got this sensor here and I've got this pump here. But other than that, people don't really know. And then suddenly something will happen, like I'll have a hypo or I need to stop filming because I need to eat. Do you carry a snack round with you? Oh, yeah, I've got Dextro tablets, naked bars. Yeah. And can you have a hyper on a hypo? Go high or low, yeah. Yeah, and what happens with the other one?

22:14High is not dangerous in the short term. Low is dangerous, yeah.

22:17Lennie Ware: Does it change your personality? It does. When I go low, it's complicated. Eating at restaurants is complicated because you have to time your insulin. So, you know, we just discussed when I'm going to do my insulin. You have to time it and hope that the food's going to arrive in time. And if it doesn't, you can be in a restaurant. Have you ever been that guy that's like, guys I really need to eat my dinner now where is it oh yeah I've had some mad ones I was at a GQ event once and I arrived it was a sort of fashion thing and I put my insulin in thinking that we were going to have some bread with the starter and the starter arrived and it was this little bit of trout smoked trout with no with no carbs and I was on the high table and it was and they were honoring Jude Law and Nicole Kidman and all these people and there were speeches after the starter so I was sitting there having done my insulin having eaten this trout going I've got 10 minutes before I start to faint basically and I couldn't interrupt the speeches because I was sitting on the high table so I eventually started sweating and like you know you get really wobbly you like eventually will faint so I walked over I actually brought I said I'm sorry I'm sorry Jude I'm just gonna went over to the back to the lady that was standing behind my table saying I'm a diabetic I need some food like quickly so she gave me a chocolate bar and some juice and I thought I was okay went back sat back down what I didn't realize was that pandemonium had broken out backstage and they were like james norton's about to you know have a hypo we need to so in the middle of nicole kidman's speech someone randomly brings me a steaming plate of potatoes and it basically looked like i was like this is bullshit james is hungry give him some potatoes what do you keep in your fridge always then juice yeah it's juice very good for you anything sugary okay we need to get on to your last supper my last supper yeah so we've got starter main pud drink of choice oh my gosh starter this is like oh god it's like off menu isn't it yeah you're gonna have to change it up for us please um starter something like i i was gonna go lobster beast on off menu so i'll go lobster you didn't i didn't i went for an asparagus you went oysters i think i love fish i would probably go something like i love i love anything which can make use of the bread so anything like a beast or a soup something which my mum would make a lot with celery soup and I would just cover it with cheddar cheese and like big crusty bread and just make it this big mush and you know I remember like that was very comfort is that one of her best dishes oh no my mom's that my mom's a good cook like we would do you know big roasts my sister's a great cook my dad we're a family of foodies so what what was your birthday meal did you go out for dinner or did your mom make you lasagna or something my mom my birthday meal I mean my mom worked a lot What does she do?

24:53She was a nurse and then she taught nurses medical ethics. She did a PhD in medical ethics and philosophy. How interesting. An allocation of healthcare resources. So when she was working, my birthday cake was often like a slab of ice cream with a packet of Smarties. And I was thrilled. You didn't mind. I was great, yeah. Because, you know, she was a busy working mum as my dad worked as well. She has some staple dishes. Her pavlova is quite famous. Is it? Yeah, when I was at school, James Norton's mum's pavlova became quite a thing.

25:30Lennie Ware: What's her topping? I don't know why. Strawberries, raspberries, blueberries, yeah. Was it chewy pavlova? I mean, it was like fluff. Her meringue is unparalleled. I think there are queens of meringues. She's a queen. Actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Certain things, there's no one better. I'm so relieved I didn't make a pavlova today. Yeah, thank fuck. We didn't do that then. Yeah. My mum's Pavlova, for some reason, you know how boys get, they find things to sort of tease and play with. For some reason, it was never specified why James' mum's Pavlova felt naughty, but it would be talked about all the time.

26:08Lennie Ware: Where? At school. Oh, God. Like James' mum. She brought Pavlova to school? No, it was just like, there was something about it which sounded naughty, like mum's Pavlova. Oh, Pavlova. I don't know what it was. She also made a great chocolate roulade. I grew up in a house. She grows her own vegetables. She was obsessed with her runner beans. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very lucky. Do you celebrate Christmas all together? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Very big, big Christmas. And also because of Granny Jean. God, I'm really going down the Norton family history, aren't I? Yeah. That's my dad's side. My mum's side has lots of cousins and aunts and uncles.

26:44So every Christmas is big numbers. Everyone comes together. It's huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

26:47Lennie Ware: So what's your main course if you've had lobster bisque to start? I mean, it's boring because I've just talked about halibut steaks, but I would probably do something like some grilled fish, something like a big bass or something, but like lovely, something simple. I mean, ingredients, delicious, delicious, or like a boulibes or something fishy, I think. More and more I'm veering away from meat. I mean, a roast chicken, it can't go wrong. I love it. I love it. Nothing better. Do you like stuffing or... We were talking about bread sauce the other day. Bread sauce. We grew up on bread sauce. A Yorkshireman.

27:24Lennie Ware: But do you have it with every roast chicken or just at Christmas? We tend not to have it... We have it with every roast chicken. Oh, OK. I think I need to up my game. We have it with... We have, yeah, bread sauce with every chicken. Yorkshire puddings. Yeah, I mean, we have a lot. Oh, and also because I grew up in Yorkshire. So when I would come back from school, sometimes my mum and dad would be working and we would go to this amazing lady called Liz who lived in the village and we'd have our roast and then she'd always make extra gravy and then we'd have a slice of white bread on our... So you could...

28:00And then the extra gravy would go... Just pour it. Heaven. So it would just be the most delicious gravy with a slice of white bread and that would... There's a name for it in Yorkshire, I can't remember what it's called, but... Yeah, that's...

28:11Lennie Ware: You could have had a Yorkshire pudding. You could.

28:42We'll see you next time. That deal's almost here. Wayfair's Black Friday in July sale. Get up to 80 % off area rugs and up to 60 % off outdoor and bedroom furniture. Shop Wayfair's huge selection of styles and find the piece to fit your style, budget, and space. Plus, free shipping. Black Friday in July ends July 27th. Shop today at Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

29:10Lennie Ware: James, let's talk about House of the Dragon. Yes. Wow. So I just got to episode three. Right. And you've like, the end of the episode three, it's like, okay, we understand who we're dealing with now. So it kicks off for me from, everyone's, yeah, everyone's like, wait, are you in this? Four onwards, and then my storyline suddenly really kicks off, yeah. And he, I'm pitched as the, you know, the main antagonist for an era. I'm the thorn in her side from now on, which is quite exciting. Have you done other kind of fantasy? No, I've never done anything like this, actually. And it's an interesting experience because I'm very aware of the weight, the scale of this.

29:55You know, I've never been in so many memes.

29:58Lennie Ware: Oh, yeah. It's mad. But what I wondered about, obviously there's a lot of AI involved because there aren't real dragons everywhere. How do you manage that as an actor? There's some. I've got to say, in the world of AI, I feel like shows like House of the Dragon really are, they stand for something important because so much of what you see is actually real. I mean, the studio. The dragons. The dragons, no. But the dragons, even the heads of the dragons are real. So when you see the dragon, what we see as actors is about three people all dressed in blue, like the Blue Man group. Yeah. head to toe in blue, they're holding these big sticks and they have the dragon's head on it and they have the wings as well on sticks.

30:48And so they move. They're like puppeteers. How interesting.

30:51Lennie Ware: Bless them. And they move. And so what you're watching is a single head moving like the dragon with the wings and then the body isn't there. And then behind them is this enormous blue screen. And then later on, special effects. They add it all in, yeah. But it's not AI. I mean, there'll be AI involved. I don't know what you call it. What's the thing? the other cgr i don't know it'll be cgr yeah yeah yeah god that's just your plate my neck's a bit small okay so we have zeshwan lamb shoulder and lamb rib you can take two james no no i'll take one to start with i can't No, no, no. Just do it. After all the chat, you should.

31:32I know, after all the chat, I can start the one, I can start the one. But you didn't even take the biggest. No, but this is fine. This is huge. There's so much food. Oh, mate, you've got to take that one. That is great. And then we're doing it with,

31:41Lennie Ware: so it's, Oh my God, this is amazing. And this is with, like a lovely cucumber salad. I shouldn't go first. Come on, Lenny, you go. No, no, no, you keep going. You keep going, yeah. Curried corn and ricotta, and then you've got like a courgette dip. Oh my gosh. And some things, Yeah, just knock yourself out. Do you guys compete when it's at one another's house? Mum's done food. Mum's done food. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's good enough. It's Ben Lippert's recipe on how I cook, in his book, How I Cook. Also, shout out to Sam, who cooked it. I know. That was sweet, Sam. Hoping for a kebab, I should think.

32:16Thanks, Jessie, but we'll say it.

32:18Lennie Ware: Good, darling. Yeah. Okay, so. So, yeah, how's it going? I was saying the mad thing about it is in the world of AI, it is really humbling and encouraging to be on a set where the detail, the people who are involved in that show, they both love it. Thank you. It's incredible, basically. The studio builds are vast and so detailed. I mean, everything, like my sword, the armour, it was all so intricate. And there was like teams of people who made my sword, you know, for months. There's a blacksmith on set. They have people, they have a literal... A blacksmith? They have an old fashion practice with fashioning the metal.

32:54I haven't even got this. What's this?

32:56Lennie Ware: I have a multi-yoghurt, courgette yoghurt thing. Guys, this is great. This shit's on off menu. Is there enough for you, darling? Is there enough for you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Listen, I'm not saying anything. We have lots of respect for Ed Gamble and James Iacaster, and we still need to have James on. No, nothing like this. Yeah. Okay, I've got everything. You've got... He was worrying for a moment. It's okay, because I served myself. I was able to give huge helping. Anyway, it's been a great show. And also, you know, it's just coming out now, but witnessing and experiencing the global kind of reach of it is mad.

33:32It's been a mad experience. I've never been in something so huge.

33:37Lennie Ware: Let's talk about Sunny Dancer that's coming out. Bella Ramsey, Jessica Gunning, Earl Cave, who is fantastic. Isn't he? I haven't seen him in anything before. So good. He's such a nice guy. He's a star. Sweet boy. Looks amazing. Yeah. Sweet guy. They're all so... I mean... Neil Patrick. Neil Patrick Harris. Yeah. He and I... Yeah. I really did jump a generation on this film. You're playing a dad. I'm playing a dad of a 17-year-old. I mean, Bella is 21. Which... Oh, they're so young. Yeah, they're 21. But they're playing a 17-year-old. So at least I'm playing a father of a 17-year-old. But it was a bit scary when my agent called up and said, so there's an offer come through, you aren't going to be playing Bella Ramsey's dad.

34:24And I suddenly thought, fuck, that's a big generation shift.

34:28Lennie Ware: But you just knew you were a young dad anyway. Thanks. Well, there's a reference to it in the film as well. Young dad, young dad, young dad. My business partner, she has coined my current casting as my sad dad era. I guess because you did your ITV thing as well, didn't you? And they were special, and yeah. Well, can we just talk? We will talk about Sunny Dancer. It's really beautiful. It's an independent film by George Jack. George Jakes, yeah. George Jakes. And it's about, well, you can say if you want. It's about a young girl who has had cancer and she is recovering. Her parents send her on a kind of cancer camp.

35:06So for kids who have had cancer.

35:08Lennie Ware: Because she's kind of removing herself a bit and they're worried about her. She's kind of traumatised by the experience. And angry. As you'd expect. You know, she's a 17-year-old who's kind of had their adolescence stolen from them. Anyway, she's very reluctant to go to this camp, but she goes on the advice of her parents, Jessica Gunning and I play her parents. And it's a very heartwarming, very important film about, you know, kids with cancer. People immediately sort of hear that and go, God, you know, that sounds terrifyingly sad. And George, the brilliant director and writer, he's only about 24 himself, It's terrifying how young he is, I know.

35:47Oh, wow. He wrote it and directed it. Yeah, he's kind of a... Did he have... Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. No, I don't think so. No, no, no, no. But he... It's just very... It's just not what you expect in terms of the pitch. You think, God, this is going to be really, really sad. And actually, it's incredibly heartwarming and very funny.

36:06Lennie Ware: Some really brilliant new stars as well. Brilliant new stars. And I don't feel like dancing. And Sizzly Sisters gets such a big moment in it. Huge moment. I like the one by The Lake. The Lake, it was beautiful. That was shot really beautifully too. And your bit in the car, Bob. Mine and Jessica's contribution is small, but I'm very proud to be a part of it. Where did we get to on our last supper? Oh my gosh. We've got Mum's pavlova, we've got halibut steaks. What's your drink of choice?

36:37My drink of choice for the meal is wine. It has to be lovely.

36:39Lennie Ware: Yeah, but what wine are we having? Oh my gosh, I'm not good with wine. I'm not going to be able to give you... But if you eat fish, do you have white wine? A soncet or something crisp. I mean, I love a natural wine. Probably the wine drinkers, roll your eyes, hate it. Thank you so much. You used to love it. No, I like a pet nap. Pet nap, love. I can't do natural wines. Something a little frisante. But I don't have a list of favourite wines. You're so hackneyed. Can I just ask, just now you're eating, do you have to check things on your phone to see how you are? It will beep if I... So if you go high or low.

37:14Lennie Ware: Okay. And then what do you do? Well, then I'll add something. So, for example, if we're about to have pudding. Yeah, we are actually. And we've had a bit of more bread than I thought. So now I'm going to put a bit more insulin in. I'm going to tell my thing to tell this. Oh, my goodness. To put a bit more. So the pudding is what? It's ice cream. Pistachio ice cream. Fantastic. Fabulous. Also, this is just something, a note to those people who ask, please don't ask a diabetic if they can eat sugar because it drives us mad. I mean, I can eat sugar. All I need to do is just tell my device that I'm about to eat sugar.

37:42And then I'm happy.

37:43Lennie Ware: I think I did ask you if you could eat sugar. It's fine. Yeah, I didn't know that. It's fine. Because I think if you're not type one, you probably can't then. It's hard if you're type two. Yeah. If you're balancing it with diet, then you have to be more mindful. But I very much can eat ice cream. You like your meat. It's a lot when I'm trying to do an interview. You know what I mean? This is delicious, by the way. I'm thrilled to be eating this delicious food. Thank you very much. I feel sad that you didn't get to do seconds. I thought maybe you were going to go for the next bag. Do you want to dim a little box?

38:09Lennie Ware: No, I think he'll be fine. I'm sure he's going to the Corinthia for a press junket and I think he'll be okay. Okay, so you're doing Hamlet, you're doing the Beatles film and you're on this kind of big, long period of filming. What is Rabbit Track doing? Rabbit Track is doing... Your production company. My production company is doing a lot. I have an amazing business partner called Kitty Kletsky who I've been working with for now five, six years. How did you meet? We met in LA and I got this opportunity to set this company up and I called her and said, listen, do you know anyone in London who might want to run the company?

38:38with me, knowing that she was in the kind of producer world, and she sort of gave me a few names, and at the end, because she was living in LA at the time, and I knew that there was no one better than her. She was running a TV department. She's, I mean, have you met Kitty? No. She's incredible. I mean, genuinely, I'm in awe of her daily, and she keeps me on my toes, and she challenges me. Talk about getting out of your comfort zone. I mean, this has been a whole, just learning how to do a new career, and Kitty's been my sort of guide through it. But at the end of the call, I was like, maybe if you know you wanted to do it that would be great put the phone down planted the seed and then she called me a few weeks later and saying actually i am looking for a reason to come home and so that was it we were then building a company together we set up in 2019 just before the pandemic and it's been amazing it's been a complete mad challenging beautiful sort of journey i've we've made two shows king and conquer and playing nice there was a beat was it your that's maybe

39:33Lennie Ware: beat that's my instant finishing it's all good okay fine does it mean are there different leaps that's a healthy beat that's okay that's a we're good we're on the right track beat um it's all right i don't think we've oh we've had estee heim on yeah did she make such a song and dance about it no she's quite cool about it i think you're quite cool about having yeah i think you're i think you're quite cool she's cool i think anyone that's called diabetes is pretty fucking yeah i think i agree i genuinely you don't meet a bad diabetic i'm just saying Type 1s are all pretty cool Yeah I don't know what it is Maybe it's because Whenever I meet one If I see them on the street I'm like yes We have a kind of Lovely camaraderie Yeah you're just type 1 So what if you see See them with their bit You'll kind of be like It's like a Do you know the bane of my life For a period was Zoe Oh Because it completely Threw me Out of Those people that were Trying to see What their blood sugar Oh you don't have diabetes You just have So you'd be like Embracing these Health faddy Yeah I'd be like hey And they go What are you doing And I'm like You're not type 1 What is type 1 And they would just go, no, I'm just trying to get my gut biome right.

40:35Lennie Ware: Oh, yeah, they all had those things on their arm, didn't they? Yeah, they still do sometimes. But you've got a really exciting film in production with Owen Cooper. Test, like you've got the cast, Mum, your favourite from the bear. Ebon Mosbaccarat. Who? Ebon Mosbaccarat. Oh, my God. Cous, sexy cuz. He's fabulous. Have you watched the bear this season? Not this season, but I love it. Can I just say, it's the best season. Is it? It's as good as number one. Love it. It's almost better because it's so enchanting. He's coming in his new film. You're so lucky. So it's cool. I mean, again, Kitty, I have to say, I'm taking more of a backseat on this one.

41:13What's really wonderful, we're shooting a film called Foxfinder in Bavaria this summer, in August. We're about to go into production. I've very much taken a backseat on this one because it's the first project we've made, which I'm not in. And that's a really big step for us because it's validating us as a company. We always wanted to make the first few shows with me in them, gives a bit of a supercharge to the company. But now we were never one of those vanity projects just making stuff for me. And Kitty is too good a producer just to make shows and films for me, a sort of English guy. So, yeah, this is, as you say, I'm on Tessa.

41:49It's cool, really cool.

41:49Lennie Ware: Do you prefer playing baddies or goodies? Because Vicka is very different from a horrible, nasty criminal. Yeah, I mean, I think for me it's all about just keeping it new and fresh. And also I think probably in a way, like the roles really are the sort of the neither. My favourite role is one which splits the audience. And, you know, you have people on the sofa at home going, is he good? Is he bad? And you want people kind of going, I mean, Tommy from Happy Valley, although he was clearly a baddie. He was a baddie. But there was a lot of vulnerability. No, that at the end. You know what I mean?

42:24You saw it all. So that's the dream, is where you can play with people's preconceptions about someone. Does it work, Jess?

42:31Lennie Ware: I think so. Is it homemade ice cream? Yeah. Oh, my God. Guys, this is the best podcast ever. Jessie, that was... Delicious. Absolutely delicious. Good. Thank you. I'm now quite intimidated to have you at my house. No, don't be. Lennie, yours is very upright. I know. I like an erect one, James.

42:56Lennie Ware: Mum, I've already started but what is the pudding? It's pistachio ice cream with chocolate stratagella. We have to shout Alexandra Dudley on Instagram. I saw this. I said, Mum, can you make it? This is delicious. This is very, very good. No churn. Very good. No churn. No churn. This is really good. That chocolate, what percent is that? Like 90? 80. 80. So good. But actually you need it. No. Otherwise it would have been too sweet. I hope you're not going to start bleeping. No, no, it's great. Also, I'm an addict of dark chocolate. I mean, I have dark chocolate in my bag all the time. I was 85 to 90%.

43:30This is heaven.

43:32Lennie Ware: Whilst you finish up your pistachio ice cream, can you give us a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere, happy or sad? Oh, my gosh. That's a really interesting one. Okay, so... Oh, I mean, this has transformed me somewhere. Oh, good. Oh, my God. I think if I'm going deep nostalgia to my childhood there was a dish my mum made which is actually quite in hindsight it's actually a bit gross if I describe it it's like a it's like a tuna fish and white sauce it was like a couple of cans of tuna fish with sweet corn and a white sauce and onion so just very simple like onions basically onions tuna white sauce and basically and very simple.

44:16But for some reason as a child, I absolutely loved it. And it became comfort food. And then when you go away to school and you come back and all you want is that thing. The tuna in the white sauce. The tuna in the white sauce. Did you have it with pasta?

44:28Lennie Ware: Yeah. Okay, it was a pasta. Pasta sauce, yeah. In describing it, I'm realising I haven't had it for decades. But for a long time, it was, yeah, it was like the food which I associated with home and my mum. And whether or not I loved the flavour, which I did, but it became more than that. It became, yeah, my tuna fish and white sauce, which I haven't had for decades. Would you make it for your children? I would. Yeah. I will. You will. Hopefully. One day. James Norton, thank you very much for coming on the podcast. I've loved it. This has been wonderful. Oh, good. Thank you. Best dinner party ever.

45:20Lennie Ware: James Norton on Table Manners. He's rushed off to a junket and I can't speak because I don't know if I'm dehydrated or that select spritz just took me over the edge. Maybe both? Maybe, darling. That ice cream. Did you like it? That was delicious. Good. Alexandra Dudley, your no-churn pistachio dark chocolate stracciatella was delicious. And I'm thrilled that we have so much more left. Also, Ben Lippet, those Szechuan lamb rib, did you like them? Were they too spicy? But you put cheeky chilies in the cucumber salad. With little green chilies. Yeah, thanks darling. I was picking them out. So you've got a bone to pick with Ben Lippett and Gil Mellor.

46:12Lennie Ware: Yeah, just a bit spicy for me, but delicious. You loved Kitty Coles' curried corn. Oh, God, I love it. It's such a good side. God, we've done everything. John Gregory Smith with the schmaltzy yoghurt courgette dip. I mean, we've been everywhere. We've been everywhere. I am really hot and I'm a bit tired. But James is fat. James is, and he's really hot. He is in every sense of the word. Oh, yeah. He's a lovely, excellent guest. He's welcome any time. Very well-mannered. Very well-mannered. Ate his food, loved it. Gorgeous, soothing voice. Yes. Went with the selector. Are you drunk? No. I'm dehydrated, I think.

46:58Lennie Ware: You can watch James Norton in House of the Dragon now. You can go and see Sunny Dancer. Or you can go and watch Nowhere Special on ITVX. or you can go and you know watch reruns of happy valley and grand jester and also the tuna with white sauce i know it sounded revolting it did i didn't want to say anything and burst his bubble but that sounded i thought well no i can imagine it being kind of comforting for a little boy yeah anyway i can't speak and on that note we thank you for a wonderful season 18 but whilst we are finishing this season we will be on your airwaves and actually on youtube with never before seen footage of previous episodes when we didn't we weren't on youtube so it's a table man is picky bits yeah table man is picky bits and you can watch episodes of guests that we filmed but it may not be as hd as we are now however it's never before seen footage you can see how zoe saldana enjoyed those cookies.

48:04Lennie Ware: You can see how hot Will Poulter was throughout the episode. You can see one of our biggest episodes ever, James Corden and Ruth Jones talking about Gavin and Stacey's Christmas special episode. That's on the video too. So we've got everything for you. And we'll be doing that over the summer and then we'll be back with new Table Manners season 19 in the autumn. Thank you to everyone who's given us their time. Thank you to all of you for listening and watching. And thanks Lenny for carrying on doing it. What do you mean? Do you enjoy it still? Of course I do. Oh, okay, for you. Can we get a season 19?

48:38Lennie Ware: I think so. I think I've got a couple more seasons in me. Oh, don't say that. Okay. Yeah, I did ask the dentist this morning how long my teeth might last. I said I want at least 20 years out of them. And what did he say? He said you'll be all right. Mum had her teeth done this morning. New veneers? No, crowns. Oh, because the veneers came off all the time. Yeah, they look good. Thank you, David Guy. Thank you to Lenny's New Teeth. We'll see you next season and have a gorgeous summer. Yeah, have a gorgeous summer.

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